1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade in 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: June of twenty twenty two has had far reaching consequences 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: for women's health, bodily autonomy, and even our lives across 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: the United States. Since that decision, wherever the right to 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: reproductive health, including abortion, has been on the ballot of states, 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: voters have turned out in record numbers to protect their 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: rights in places like Kansas, Kentucky, and most recently in 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: Ohio and Virginia, and we can expect to see more 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: of that in twenty twenty four. But in the many 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: states where access to abortion was already severely restricted, this 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: is causing an enormous amount of suffering because oftentimes a 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: pregnant woman's health and even her life could be at stake. Later, 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: I'll be talking with doctor Yeshika Robinson, a board certified 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: OBGYN and the medical director of the Alabama Women's Center 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: in Huntsville, Alabama, about the work she's doing to try 17 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:24,639 Speaker 1: to improve outcomes for her patients. But first I'm talking 18 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: to someone who's fighting this battle on behalf of his 19 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: constituents in Illinois. JB. Prisker has served as governor of 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: Illinois since twenty nineteen. Since taking office, and in fact, 21 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: as you'll hear from him, since he was a kid, 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: he's understood the importance of supporting reproductive rights. As a 23 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: result of his leadership, Illinois now offers some of the 24 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: strongest protections in the country for doctors providing abortion care 25 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: and for women seeking abortions. I've been impressed by his 26 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: administration's proactive stance on many issues, from early childhood education 27 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: to climate change and so much else. But I especially 28 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to him about his advocacy around reproductive 29 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: rights and justice. He and I have been friends a 30 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: long time, and he was pretty happy to talk to 31 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: me too, until he found out that our guests have 32 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: to wear headphones for the recording. I should also mention 33 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: that we recorded our conversation before the most recent elections 34 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: on November seventh. There she is, there, he is. This 35 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: is so exciting. How are you well. 36 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: I have to tell you I have like a firm rule, 37 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: which is I never wear headphones or hats because I 38 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: look like I mean, I'm immediately like Michael Ducaccus in 39 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: the tank, you know, with anything that I put on 40 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: my head. So I just want you to know you're 41 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: the only person that I would do this with. 42 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: I am so flattered, and I won't tell a soul, 43 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: I promise. Welcome to the show, Governor Pritzker. I could 44 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: talk to you about a million things. I'm so impressed 45 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: with the job that you are doing in my birth 46 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: state of Illinois. But today I want to talk to 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: you about abortion rights in the state you govern and 48 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: across the United States. And let's start by setting the 49 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: scene just a little bit for our listeners. Illinois currently 50 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: protects abortion rights until twenty four weeks, including Medicaid coverage 51 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: and requiring private insurance to cover abortions, but it is 52 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: surrounded by states where abortion is much more restricted or 53 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 1: literally almost entirely banned. How difficult was it for you 54 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: as governor to pass the expansive legislation that you did 55 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: and making Illinois this outlier in much of the country. 56 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: Well, we have some terrific champions of reproductive rights who've 57 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: been here for many years fighting the fight. So I 58 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: don't want to make this sound at all like well, 59 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: I became governor and all of a sudden we went 60 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: at the task of protecting women's health, but there was 61 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: still a lot to do. When I became governor, let 62 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 2: me give you a little bit of the history. Though 63 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: we had already passed a law that removed all the 64 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: triggers that existed in Illinois law that would have if 65 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade had been overturned, which at the time 66 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: it had not been. If it had been, we would 67 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: have become an anti choice state and reverted to the 68 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: old laws. In fact, we had the most restrictive anti 69 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: choice laws in the nation that were lurking behind the 70 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: pro choice laws that would have been taught out. So 71 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: back in twenty eighteen, when I was just a candidate, 72 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: the legislature passed a law and put it on the 73 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: governor's desk. Republican governor who said he was pro choice, 74 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: but also was going into an election, and so he 75 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: debated publicly like hamlet you know, wondering, you know, what 76 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: he should do. And finally, with a lot of pressure, 77 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: and I was among the people pressuring him, he signed 78 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: the bill. So that's terrific. But I think everybody understood 79 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: that this is not somebody who's going to be protecting 80 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 2: your rights in an aggressive way. So anyway, so he 81 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: lost I became governor, and then we passed probably the 82 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 2: most important and biggest piece of legislation that any state 83 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: can pass, and that's a Reproductive Health Act, where we 84 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: really said, we enshrined into law in Illinois that we're 85 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: going to protect a woman's right to make her own 86 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: decisions about her own body with her doctor, and that 87 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: is now the law of the state of Illinois. Now, 88 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: we've done a number of things since then to make 89 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 2: sure that we're expanding availability of abortion medication, availability of procedures, 90 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 2: and helping our abortion clinics to expand their capabilities. Partly 91 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: because all the states around us since Dobbs have essentially 92 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: restricted or eliminated a woman's right to choose. So we 93 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: have thousands and thousands of women who are coming across 94 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: the border just from the neighboring states and then from 95 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: as far away as Texas and Tennessee to Illinois because 96 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: we protect women here and we also provide logistics and 97 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: support for women who remember when Dobbs was decided, this 98 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: really took away a woman's right to choose for the 99 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: most vulnerable women, but not for wealthy women. Wealthy women 100 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: could figure this out, but if you're truly vulnerable. You 101 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: need a lot of help if you're in a state 102 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: that has taken away your rights. So we provide that 103 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: kind of help in Illinois because we know that you 104 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: don't know where you're going to stay overnight. Is there 105 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: somebody who could support your effort to provide you with 106 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: the dollars necessary just to have a hotel room? And 107 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: you need somebody friendly on the other end of a 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: phone line before you would ever make that journey, and 109 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: know that we're going to protect all the information about 110 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: you when you come to Illinois so that no other 111 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: state that's criminalized abortion can come after you. So that's 112 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: a lot that we've done since then. And I know 113 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: that's a long winded answer to your question, but very 114 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: proud of the work that we've done. And there's more 115 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: to do. And unfortunately, this is a battle that we 116 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: need to take and go national with because there are 117 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: just too many states where women can't access what our 118 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: fundamental rights. 119 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: I absolutely am curious about how this became such an 120 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: issue of concerned to you. You said you went to 121 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: your first pro choice rally in elementary school. What do 122 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: you remember about that experience. 123 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'll be honest, my mother was an activist, yes, 124 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: and somebody who cared deeply about reproductive rights and LGBTQ rights, 125 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: and so I was raised in that environment. My father too, 126 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: but he passed away when I was very young. But 127 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: my mother after my father passed away, and I was 128 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: the youngest of three children. My older siblings were you know, 129 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: in high school or going into high school, so I 130 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: was the one who, you know, when my mother was 131 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 2: going to all of these political rallies or supporting candidates 132 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: or marching for reproductive rights, you know, she couldn't leave 133 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 2: me home alone, and so she would bring me along 134 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: with her. So you know, she may have had the 135 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: intent of really teaching me, but it may also just 136 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: have been, hey, there's nobody to watch you, so you're 137 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 2: coming along. But as time went on, you know, it 138 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: became very natural for me just to you know, to 139 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: stand up and express my belief in those rights and 140 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: couldn't how could you possibly live in a world where 141 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: people would restrict other people's rights like that? So yeah, 142 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: that's kind of how it started. And then my mother 143 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: passed away when I was seventeen, so it's just before 144 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: I went to college. So I feel like I was 145 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: picking up where she left off and my whole life 146 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: in a way, and certainly when I became governor, I 147 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: have kind of felt like her spirit is still there 148 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: with me as I approach these issues and people who 149 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: are you know, imposed upon by you know, right wing 150 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: zealots and trying to take their rights away, that I 151 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: have to be as strong and vigorous in defense of 152 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: those rights as she was. 153 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: Ah, that's such a great story. And you are continuing 154 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: her legacy in your public service. You know, when I 155 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: think about where we are, this didn't happen by accident. 156 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: I mean Roe v. Wade was decided in nineteen seventy three, 157 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: and literally from the moment it was there has been 158 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: an ongoing effort by a coalition, a political and religious coalition, 159 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: to make the issue of reproductive rights into an electoral issue, 160 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: a divisive electoral issue, and they've worked at it very 161 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: hard for fifty years. And I think a lot of 162 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: our listeners don't understand this because so many people were 163 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: shocked when Roe was overturned in the Dobbs decision, and 164 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: yet many of us, you and me included, were saying, 165 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: this is their plan. They want to overturn reproductive rights 166 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: as a national issue. But when you were both in 167 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: business and then beginning your political career and in between 168 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: supporting a lot of people, including me, who were running 169 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: for office, how did you see this issue developing and 170 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: what did you think about the game plan from the 171 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: other side. 172 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: Well, you know, this is one of these issues that 173 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: really always came down to who was elected president because 174 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: it's the Supreme Court ultimately that had the ability to 175 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: either strengthen Roe v. Wade or to take it away. 176 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: And unfortunately, as we all saw, Donald Trump was able 177 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: to appoint three justices three and all of them anti choice, 178 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: and there's no doubt he vetted them for that issue, 179 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: as he had pledged to his right wing backers. So 180 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: you know, for me, it was not much of a surprise. 181 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: I think we all understood that's what was going to happen. 182 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: But when it was leaked the decision, immediately we went 183 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 2: about preparing how were we going to react in Illinois, 184 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 2: What were the you know, the impacts on the people 185 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: of Illinois. Unfortunately, the Dobbs decision and particularly the Clarence 186 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: Thomas dissent, I think highlighted for everyone and for me that, oh, 187 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: this is going to go much further than just reproductive rights. Yes, 188 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: this is going to be about taking away your right 189 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: and all of our right to marry who we want 190 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: to marry, you know, how we're going to live our lives. 191 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: Are we going to have the ability to use contraception 192 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 2: and make decisions you know about reproduction broadly? And see 193 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: look at what's happened. You know, people think of abortion 194 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 2: as something that a single woman who's in a tough 195 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: situation decides to do because she doesn't feel like she 196 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: has any other choices. That's certainly the case for some, 197 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: but a lot of it is a medical decision by 198 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: a doctor with a patient and her spouse about you know, 199 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: the challenge is what you know, the actual medical situation 200 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: is for them and the threat to their lives or 201 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: the situation of the fetus. And so you know the 202 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: fact that Dobbs essentially opened up the possibility now that 203 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 2: we would stop a woman from you know, who has 204 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: an ectopic pregnancy, from you know, getting the medical care 205 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: that she needs. So that's just one effect, right, But 206 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: look at Idaho just to give you an example of 207 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: maybe an unintended effect. Now they've criminalized, essentially criminalized abortion 208 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: in Idaho. Obgyns in Idaho are getting up and leaving 209 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: because they're afraid for their practice, for their malpractice, insurance, 210 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: for their lives, and it's easier to go to a 211 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: state like Illinois where we're going to protect them. So 212 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: guess what's happening in Idaho. If you're having a baby, 213 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: and by the way, could be perfectly healthy, it's hard 214 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 2: to find it obgyn exactly right, or a place to go, 215 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: a hospital where you can give birth. So I mean, 216 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: this is now upon us, and I think it's it's 217 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: something that we should be hyper aware of the fact 218 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: that what the Republicans in the right wing has been 219 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: trying to do seemed like it was just about maybe 220 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: restricting the number of weeks, you know, in which you 221 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: could make the decision to have an abortion, But actually 222 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: it's about how a woman is going to live her life, 223 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: how a family is going to make decisions about their future. 224 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: So I'm very concerned, deeply concerned. I think this is 225 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: perhaps the most important issue. And we certainly can talk 226 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: about international relations and all the other challenges that we're 227 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: all facing domestically, but this is the issue that's the 228 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: most personal one that I think most people are going 229 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 2: to be voting on in twenty. 230 00:14:52,960 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: Twenty four, we're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 231 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: You've just started a nonprofit called Think Big America that 232 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: focuses on abortion rights ballot measures in other states. Tell 233 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: us a little bit about that. What is your plan? 234 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: How are you going to carry that out? 235 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: Well, as you know this is an issue you know 236 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 2: more broadly, that have been involved in nationally wherever I could, 237 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: as I could, so I think we all saw something 238 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: very unusual happen in Kansas, and that is that, as 239 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: it turns out that when people really have a choice 240 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: and opportunity to vote on this issue, that many people, 241 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: Republicans included, don't want the government making this decision for women. 242 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: And that's what the roughly sixty forty outcome in Kansas 243 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: in favor of protecting women's reproductive rights meant. And so 244 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: you know, I looked at that, and I was a 245 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: supporter of that effort personally and said, wow, there are 246 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: opportunities for us to turn the tide state by state. 247 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: It's more challenging than just doing it across the country. 248 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: But the Congress does not look like we're going to 249 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: be able to get that done. For now, and so 250 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: they're a referenda like the one in Ohio, the Vada, Arizona, 251 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: where there are varying referenda for constitutional amendments that would 252 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: protect reproductive rights. And so I created a Think Big 253 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: America which is a five oh one C four to 254 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: go and help push those referenda, to help educate the 255 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: public and to be clear, working with the local organizations. 256 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: It's not like we're parachuting in and you know and 257 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: just throwing a message up on television or something. You know, 258 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 2: each date is a little bit different, right, Each of 259 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: the populations a little bit different in how you address 260 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: the issue, and frankly, the referenda themselves are different. So 261 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 2: that's what Think Big America is really all about, is 262 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: supporting abortion rights, women's health in all fifty states, but 263 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: wherever there are real opportunities like today in Ohio, Nevada, 264 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: and Arizona, and we're looking at other states as well. 265 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: Do you think that your Republican colleagues have been surprised 266 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: by the political fallout? It's like the dog who caught 267 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: the car and they're not sure what to do with it. 268 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: Such a great expression to describe it, because that's exactly 269 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: what I think happened. I think that they fight, fight, 270 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 2: fight to get to where they are now, and they 271 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: realize this is hurting us politically, this is not what 272 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: the majority of voters in my state actually believe. And 273 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: so I've got to go, you know, do something to 274 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: make it seem like I'm not as draconian as my 275 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: previous position might have seen so many of them, you know, 276 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: as you can see, there's a you know, plethora of 277 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 2: ideas that have been put for how many weeks, you know, 278 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: what what should the laws be? And you know, it's 279 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: always been counter to what had been conservative Republican philosophy 280 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: to be all about taking away a woman's freedom to choose. 281 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: And having the government come in and tell you what 282 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: you can or can't do exactly. 283 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: I mean, it's so counter to what they you know, 284 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: it's like the discussion, you know about their pro life 285 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: but oh they're for the death penalty. So I really 286 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 2: think they have been surprised. 287 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, do you think the Republican Party will have 288 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: to reconsider its stance as it goes into the you know, 289 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four election season. 290 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: It already is, as you know, there were people who 291 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: said no abortion, even cases of rape or incest. And 292 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 2: then you have these same people coming out and saying, well, 293 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: maybe of fifteen weeks, maybe twelve week, maybe six weeks, 294 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: you know, because they're all searching for, you know, where 295 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: is that middle ground where I can retain my conservative 296 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: anti choice backers and not you know, push away all 297 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: the others. And yeah, so they are reconsidering, trying to 298 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 2: figure it out. But the truth is that party is 299 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: controlled by at the very core people who essentially do 300 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 2: not want women to have any choices. 301 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you know, the draconian measures that some have 302 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: supported now are coming home to roost. As you rightly 303 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 1: pointed out, women who pregnancy has caused very serious, you know, 304 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: health challenges to them because of you know, some condition 305 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: that develops like an acoptic pregnancy or maybe sepsis, or 306 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: they learn that you know, the child won't live long 307 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: or there may be a heartbeat, but they're there's no 308 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: brain development. And I mean, these horrible wrenching personal decisions 309 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: being thrust into the public arena, legislators deciding whether or 310 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: not you live or die, or how sick you have 311 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: to be. The sepsis has to set in before you're 312 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: going to get treatment in the local hospital in Texas, 313 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: as happened with one woman, or you have to carry 314 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: this fetus to term despite the fact, knowing that it 315 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: will die shortly after, so you have to prolong your 316 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: and its agony. I mean, it's horrific. It's the handmaid's tail. Governor. 317 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: It is not just about reproductive rights, but about women's autonomy, 318 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: women's independence, women's equality, and that's what makes it so dangerous, 319 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: and we have to turn the tide against that. And 320 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: I so appreciate you know, you're recognizing it that, yeah, 321 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,239 Speaker 1: it's a big issue reproductive rights, but it's part of 322 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: a much larger worldview that some on the Republican side 323 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: would like to impose on the rest of us. 324 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: Well, and you know, you were talking about the situations 325 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: that are you know, in a family that's just trying 326 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: to have a child. Let's also talk about the you know, 327 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: the ten year old who was raped, who had to 328 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: cross over two borders in order to get to a 329 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 2: place where they could actually have an abortion. No parent 330 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: wants that ten year old child to carry a rapist's baby. 331 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: You know that that abortion, you know, ought to be 332 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: available anywhere, and I just the unintended consequences, as you 333 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: said earlier, just are you know, long and not fully 334 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 2: understood even now. It's also again counter to everything that 335 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 2: the former Republican Party before it became a maga Republican Party, 336 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: believed there were anti choice you know, Republicans. But I'm 337 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 2: just saying, if you're a conservative, your essential belief is 338 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: that you know the government shouldn't be interfering with your 339 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: personal choices. And yet this is all they're doing now. 340 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: So for our listeners, Governor, you know, what can they 341 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: do to protect and expand access to the full range 342 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: of reproductive rights. If they're living in a state like yours, 343 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: maybe they feel like, oh, okay, we're going to be fine, 344 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: But it really matters who they elect to the state legislature. 345 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: It really matters who they send to Congress, even from 346 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: a blue state like Illinois. What would you tell all 347 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: of our listeners to do in their own ways to 348 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: try to protect reproductive rights. 349 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, have faith. You know, Dobbs happened, 350 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 2: but there will be another endeavor to counter it. And 351 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: at the federal level, it ought to be a national 352 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: abortion rights law. But in your own home state, even 353 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 2: if you're in an anti choice state, you know, I 354 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 2: can just tell you, for many, many, many years, there 355 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: were gun safety advocates. Just to give you an example 356 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: of another issue where many people in some states felt 357 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: like they were all alone and couldn't get anything done 358 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: through their state legislature. Here in Illinois, that was the case. 359 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 2: You know, we always had the NRA here in Illinois 360 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: fighting against any kind of gun safety legislation. And after years, 361 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: but you know, faith that lots of people put in, 362 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: including myself. You know, we have universal background checks, we 363 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: have banned assault weapons, and so on. And I give 364 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: you those examples because you know, even if it feels 365 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: like you live in a state where everybody around you 366 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: seems like they're anti choice, the truth is you can 367 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: educate people and very importantly vote, vote, vote. 368 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: A thousand percent, and don't ever ever get complacent about 369 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: your vote. We have to elect people like yourself governor 370 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: who could take on the take on gun violence, expand 371 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: reproductive rights, two of the hottest button issues in American politics. 372 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: You just got up every day and said we're going 373 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: to make it safer for the people of Illinois, and 374 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: then you got results. But you got results because you 375 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: had a legislature you could work with, and you got 376 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: results because you had you know, that kind of you 377 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: know support in the state. 378 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: And not every Democrat is you know, is fully pro choice. 379 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: Not every Democrat is fully pro gun safety. But you 380 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 2: know there are enough and enough you know understanding of 381 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: the issue that you can get it done. So you can, 382 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 2: you know, progress can be made, especially when I think 383 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: people understand that their electoral future. 384 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: Is at stake exactly, and their personal rights, their choices, 385 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: their freedoms are at stake. And I couldn't be you know, 386 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: more adamant about that coming up to the twenty twenty 387 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: four election, and You're going to be hosting the dum 388 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: Cretic Convention in Chicago, and I'm excited about that, but 389 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm especially excited, Governor, by your leadership and by your 390 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: vision and by your tenacity and your results. Thank you 391 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: very very much for talking with me today. 392 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: Thank you, Hillary. I admire you so much, and thank you. 393 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: The compliment has really taken to heart. 394 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: Thanks JAV. For more information on Governor Pritzker's work to 395 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: bolster reproductive health access and to combat extremism throughout our country, 396 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: go to Thinkbigamerica dot com. While Governor Pritzker is tackling 397 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: the reproductive health crisis at a policy level. My next 398 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: guest is someone on the front lines providing obstetric and 399 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: gynecological care for her patients at the Alabama Women's Center 400 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: for a decade. During that time, she and other Alabama 401 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: health care providers have faced an onslaught of regulations from 402 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: the state legislature and the Alabama Department of Health that 403 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: have absolutely nothing to do with practicing medicine or protecting patients, 404 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: but everything to do was promoting their anti choice agenda. 405 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: She and her staff have faced ongoing threats and harassment 406 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: just for doing their jobs. Since the Dobbs decision overturned 407 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: the federal right to abortion care, Doctor Robinson no longer 408 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: performs abortions in her state, which has one of the 409 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: strictest bands in the country, but she hasn't walked away 410 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: or given up on her patients. In fact, she's now 411 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: in the process of opening Alabama's first birthing center to 412 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: give patients more options during pregnancy and delivery. But even 413 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: these efforts to improve outcomes in a state which has 414 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: such high rates of infant and maternal mortality have been 415 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: met with resistance from the Alabama Department of Public Health. 416 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: I really admired doctor Robinson's tireless work to provide a 417 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: high standard of care to all of her patients despite 418 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: the obstacles she faces, and I was delighted to have 419 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: the chance to speak with her. I began by asking 420 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: her to tell me about her clinic and what happens 421 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: there on a typical day. 422 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 3: I am the owner of Alabama Women's Wellness Center PC. 423 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 3: It's a private obstetrics and gynecology practice here in Huntsville, Alabama. 424 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 3: We are a small practice. There is two physician providers 425 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: in that practice, and we do everything the full gamut 426 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: of women's health care. So we deliver babies, and up 427 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 3: until Jina last year, we were also forming all of 428 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 3: the abortion services here in North Alabama, but we had 429 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: patients at the time that was traveling here from as 430 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 3: far away as Texas when road was overturned in June. 431 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: We also were providing training, so we were training residents 432 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: and also fellows. We also train midwives in our facility, 433 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 3: and we were training duels in our facility. As far 434 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 3: as what my typical day looks like, I'm still doing 435 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 3: all of those things except abortion care. We are not 436 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 3: providing any abortion services at this time. We're still delivering 437 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: lots of babies, and we're still doing all of the 438 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 3: advocacy work that we were doing before, trying to make 439 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 3: sure that our patients have access to everything that other 440 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: states have and even more just so that they can 441 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: really exercise their full autonomy and be able to access 442 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: the resources that are best for them. 443 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: Maybe doctor, you could describe for our listeners, why do 444 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: you believe that abortion care is part of the wider 445 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: services that should be available for women when it comes 446 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: to reproductive health. 447 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 3: I mean, abortion care is one of those things that 448 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 3: you know as a women's health service provider, is part 449 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 3: of our training, is part of our scope of practice. 450 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 3: When you know that people are going to need different 451 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 3: things during pregnancy. As a women's health provider, abortion services 452 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 3: is one of those. People are going to have babies, 453 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: they're going to have miscarriages, and sometimes they may need 454 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 3: to choose abortion for various reasons. 455 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: In fact, you took that explanation to Congress because you 456 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: testified in the weeks after the dabs' decision was leaked, 457 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: but before it was formally enacted about the importance of 458 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: safe and legal abortion access. That must have been a 459 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: stressful experience testifying before Congress. How did you find. 460 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 3: That it was a very stressful experience. I never thought 461 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: that as a physician that I would end up being 462 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 3: considered a leader and an advocate in this area. But 463 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 3: I take my responsibilities to my patients very seriously. And 464 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 3: when you understand how important having access to the full 465 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: spectrum of options is, then despite the fear that I had, 466 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: I really felt that it was important for me to 467 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: step outside of that and do what was best for 468 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: my patients. 469 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: Well, that's spoken like a true physician who understands her 470 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: obligations to care for the people who seek her expertise. 471 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: And in fact, you do not come from a family 472 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: of doctors, And on paper one might say, wow, how 473 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: did she become a doctor? Could you talk about what 474 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: led you to do this work? And you know some 475 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: of the obstacles you yourself had to overcome in order 476 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: to be this very strong defender of your painations and 477 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: their right to healthcare. 478 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: You're right, I didn't come from a family of doctors, 479 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 3: but I think that my journey to becoming a physician 480 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 3: is still deeply rooted in my family and my upbringing. 481 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 3: I often tell my children, now, you know, I repeat 482 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 3: what my mom said to me. If you're going to 483 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 3: do something, do it right, or don't do it at all. 484 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 3: And so I was a teen mom, I made the 485 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: decision that I wanted to become a health care provider 486 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: following just the experience that I had as a teen mom. 487 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 3: Some of the people that I encountered, and I know 488 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: how much negative stigma there is around teen pregnancy, and 489 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: then I was that girl. But the health care providers 490 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: that cared for me, they encouraged me despite the fact 491 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: that there were naysayers. They still treated me with respect, 492 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 3: and they still told me that I could achieve my dreams. 493 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 3: And that made a difference to me. And so I 494 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: made the decision that I wanted to do that and 495 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 3: be that person for somebody else. 496 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: That's terrific. Well, you know, you have consistently advocated for 497 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: your patients. You know many of them are young black women. 498 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: They are, you know, coming to you for the care 499 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: and support they need. You want to make sure that 500 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: they get that they're safe, they're respected. But how are 501 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: the young women really women of all ages, but particularly 502 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: young women feeling about you know what's going on now 503 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: in Alabama and so many other states around the country 504 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: where you know, they are denied the full range of 505 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,719 Speaker 1: care and services that had been provided before. 506 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: I will tell you my patient population. The majority of 507 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 3: the people I care for are people of color. The 508 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 3: majority of our patients are also low income, and they 509 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 3: many of them do receive their health care services through Medicaid. 510 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 3: We do know that when services become scarce, when they're 511 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 3: difficult to access, those are the people. The most vulnerable 512 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 3: people are the ones that suffer the most. Universally, my 513 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 3: patients express fear. Many of them are very very confused, 514 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 3: some are angry and frustrated. I mean, this is just 515 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 3: a really devastating situation that we've been put in in 516 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 3: this area, and it's really unfortunate that people do didn't 517 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 3: realize how much it was going to affect them until 518 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 3: it happened and it was too late. 519 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: I think that's a very sad but accurate observation. A 520 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: lot of people did not believe it. Whatever happen. And 521 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: we know that maternal mortality rates are higher nationwide for 522 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: black women than for white women. We know that in 523 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: many parts of the South, infant mortality rates are much 524 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: higher than they are elsewhere. How have you seen that 525 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: play out in your own practice. 526 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 3: Alabama right now is in the middle of a maternal 527 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 3: health crisis. You know, thirty seven percent of the counties 528 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 3: here in Alabama are what we call maternity deserts. That 529 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 3: means that they do not have providers who are able 530 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 3: to provide prenatal care and delivery services. And this is 531 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: particularly devastating for the patients that I care for. Like 532 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: I said, many of my patients are people of color 533 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 3: and they are low income. Being able to access abortion care, 534 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: having access to quality maternity care, all of this can 535 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 3: make the difference between life and death, whether they end 536 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: up dying from pregnancy or complications of childbirth. 537 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,879 Speaker 1: This is what I find so frustrating because you're absolutely right, 538 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: and you're describing a reality that we are seeing across 539 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: the country. And it's hard breaking that we don't have 540 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: the best prenatal the best labor and delivery, the best 541 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: post birth care in the world. I mean, that's what 542 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: we should have. That's what every person deserves in terms 543 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: of the quality of healthcare. And I know that's one 544 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: of the reasons why you're trying to open a birth center. 545 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: What does that mean to you and to the community 546 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: to have that kind of service available. 547 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 3: What we are working to do right now is to 548 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 3: open up the first freestanding birth center in North Alabama, 549 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 3: and that is a service that our community does not 550 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 3: have access to. We don't have birth centers in Alabama. 551 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 3: But there are a lot of good studies that show 552 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: that when patients are able to access we're free lick care, 553 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 3: that it can improve outcomes. And we also know that 554 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 3: in maternity health care deserts, midwives can bring a lot 555 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 3: of value and that's going to be one of the 556 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 3: answers to these rural areas that don't have hospitals that 557 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 3: currently provide obstetrical services. I mean, I'm not in a 558 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 3: rural area. I'm about an hour and fifteen minutes from Birmingham, Alabama, 559 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: which is a very large city here in Alabama, and 560 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 3: we have two more hospitals that just announced that this 561 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 3: month they will shut down their delivery services. 562 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. You know, you would think everyone 563 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: could get behind birth centers, places where women could go 564 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: to have safe, healthy deliveries that would improve the outcome 565 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,959 Speaker 1: for them and their babies, But in fact, I heard 566 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: that the Alabama Department of Health has gone to great 567 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: lengths to block your and others' efforts to open first centers. 568 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: How do you make sense of that? 569 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 3: There is no way to make sense of what just 570 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 3: does not make sense. The only thing that I see 571 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 3: is that this is just another area of control where 572 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 3: the people empower are exercising their control over women's reproductive 573 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 3: health choices, where people who are pregnant are not able 574 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 3: once again to make decisions about what's based for them 575 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 3: based off of their values, their resources, and their desires 576 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 3: and their belief system. 577 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: Well, I certainly agree with that. I have to ask you, 578 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: despite everything you've gone through and how you've had to 579 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: really just hold yourself together to keep going to do 580 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: what you know is needed, what gives you hope at 581 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: this current time. 582 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 3: What gives me hope is knowing that there are people 583 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 3: out there that care that have not written the state 584 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 3: of Alabama off. We have a great team of attorneys 585 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 3: that was able to come and help us in our 586 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 3: efforts to be able to get the birth center open. 587 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 3: That helps to keep my head in the game my patients. 588 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 3: They also inspire me. I mean, I do ask myself 589 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: on some days like what am I doing? This is crazy? 590 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 3: Like everything that you do, everything should not be a struggle. 591 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 3: But when people come through my doors and they are 592 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 3: asking me when is the birth center going to open, 593 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 3: it makes it hard for me to give up and 594 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: just be like, you know what, this is not worth 595 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 3: doing it because I really care about them. And then 596 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 3: when you know what the studies show, when you know 597 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 3: that the data says that this will improve outcomes for 598 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 3: women that look like me, that makes a big difference 599 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 3: to me. It makes me want to work harder and 600 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 3: continue to do it, even though there are lots of 601 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 3: days that are very hard. 602 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: Well, there are many of us, and after this episode 603 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: runs there work there be many many more doctor who 604 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: are on your side, encouraging you. So grateful that you 605 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: haven't given up, that you're still there in the arena 606 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: doing everything you can to provide quality, affordable, accessible care 607 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: to your patients. Doctor Robinson, I'm so grateful to you 608 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: and so admiring of your dedication to do what you 609 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: know is right for your patients, and I just wish 610 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: you and your family the very very best going forward. 611 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Thank you. 612 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: If you'd like to support the important work doctor Robinson 613 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: is doing. Go to Alabama Birthcenter dot com for more 614 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: information and links to donate. When I think about the 615 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: state of women's reproductive rights in this country and the 616 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: backslide experienced, I get motivated to do something about it 617 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: because we can't give up, not with people like doctor 618 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: Robinson and Governor Pritzker and so many others who are 619 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: out there doing whatever they can. So please get involved, 620 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: whether it's fighting to keep hospitals and obgyn services open, 621 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: working to get abortion protections on ballots in your states, 622 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: or using the power of your vote in November to 623 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: ensure that we elect leaders who will fight for women 624 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: and our reproductive rights. And if you or someone you 625 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: know is seeking reproductive healthcare, including abortion care, call the 626 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: National Abortion Hotline at one eight hundred seven seven to 627 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: two ninety one hundred, or check out the website plan C. 628 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: It's an excellent online resource that provides state by state information. 629 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: And remember, abortion care is healthcare and it will be 630 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: on every ballot in the upcoming elections because of who 631 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: we are voting to elect. So let's keep going. Let's 632 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: elect people who will fight for reproductive justice and give 633 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:32,359 Speaker 1: women the full reproductive rights we are entitled to You 634 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 1: and Me Both is brought to you by iHeart Podcasts. 635 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo, 636 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: with help from Huma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz, 637 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: Laura Olin, Lona Valmoorro and Lily Weber. Our engineer is 638 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray. 639 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: Like You and Me Both, tell someone else about it 640 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: And if you're not already a subscriber, what are you 641 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: waiting for? You can subscribe to You and Me Both 642 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 643 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next 644 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: week