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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: From Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the congresswoman from Florida Democrat, here

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Speaker 2: bipartisan budget agreement. It says, with a series of boxes,

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Speaker 2: check prevents a devastating default, protects Social Security, Medicare, protects

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Speaker 2: veterans healthcare, protects historic infrastructure and climate investments, and she

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Speaker 2: writes or checks protects the forty million borrowers and President

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Speaker 2: Biden's student debt relief plan. She's with us right now, Congresswoman.

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Speaker 2: It's great to have you back on Bloomberg. So it

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Speaker 2: sounds like you're a yes vote. This is a good deal.

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Speaker 3: This is a deal that absolutely had to happen. This

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Speaker 3: is a deal that prevented the extreme maga Republicans from

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Speaker 3: crashing our economy into the side of a cliff and

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Speaker 3: refusing to pay our bills. And thankfully avoids that nightmare

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Speaker 3: scenario by ensuring that we raise the death feeling. And

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Speaker 3: it also prevents the devastating budget cuts that they'd proposed,

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Speaker 3: which would have been harmful to our seniors, cut veterans' healthcare,

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Speaker 3: impacted the long term savings of Americans, and it was

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Speaker 3: just absolutely unacceptable. And so I'm going to vote for this,

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Speaker 3: even though it's certainly not the bill that I would

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Speaker 3: have written or that would have preferred it to look like.

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Speaker 3: But it was critical in terms of making sure that

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Speaker 3: we protected veterans healthcare, the guaranteed funding. We ensured that

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Speaker 3: we would commit the toxic exposed veterans during their service,

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Speaker 3: which Republicans were prepared to eliminate. So there are some

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Speaker 3: good wins in this proposal, even though it's not perfect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the conventional wisdom in Washington this morning is this

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Speaker 2: bill will pass, that we will avoid a default. But

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Speaker 2: you heard some of the Freedom Caucus members we were

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Speaker 2: just talking about Congresswoman. They say Speaker McCarthy got rolled

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Speaker 2: by the president, Are they right?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we're talking about a wing of the

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Speaker 3: Republican Party that pushed the entire caucus over there to

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Speaker 3: bring us to the brink of a vote in our

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Speaker 3: VA funding bill that would have led to devastating cuts

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Speaker 3: and underfunded our commitment to ensuring guaranteed funding for veterans

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Speaker 3: exposed to toxic substances during their service. These are people

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Speaker 3: that would have cut that off and not allowed us

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Speaker 3: to be able to guarantee that we would take care

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Speaker 3: of them. So I don't really put a lot of

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Speaker 3: stock in what they say. Their extremism continues. They're also

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Speaker 3: who pushed the funding cuts rollback to f y twenty

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Speaker 3: two levels, which Super McCarthy jammed through the House of Representatives,

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Speaker 3: and this deal prevents. It's absolutely critical that we got

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Speaker 3: to the deal we did, where at f y twenty

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Speaker 3: three levels, which is essentially flat funding, that's a reasonable

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Speaker 3: proposition for the next two years because it expands the

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Speaker 3: snap foodstamps, then to veterans, to our to veterans, to

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Speaker 3: out foster youth who've aged out, and a couple of

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Speaker 3: other categories. So it's actually helping a large number of

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Speaker 3: people that would not have gotten help without President Biden

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Speaker 3: leading the way to make sure that we protected student

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Speaker 3: borrowers are folks who are vulnerable and our veterans.

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Speaker 2: So, okay, and I realized you're not going to deal

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Speaker 2: with the Freedom Caucus in this conversation, But how about

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Speaker 2: progressive Democrats congresswomen who have suggested they have real problems

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Speaker 2: with the work requirements. You seem to like the way

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Speaker 2: that deal surrounding snap worked out here, But are you

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Speaker 2: concerned that members of the Progressive caucus will vote now?

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Speaker 3: No, Listen, I wouldn't go so far as to say

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Speaker 3: that I like the work requirements. They are certainly not

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Speaker 3: as bad as they could have been because they get

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Speaker 3: phased out, and they also expand benefits to several different

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Speaker 3: groups of people, which is absolutely critical. Veterans, former foster

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Speaker 3: use and people who are homeless will now get access

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Speaker 3: to food stamps during that period of time that those

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Speaker 3: work requirements are phased in for folks who are between

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Speaker 3: and fifty four years old, and then it's sunsets in

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Speaker 3: twenty thirty. That's so important. So it's a balance, as

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Speaker 3: any compromise is. The bottom line is that we're not

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Speaker 3: crashing our economy into the side of a cliff Republicans

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Speaker 3: were headed towards doing, and we're not rolling back to

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Speaker 3: devastating budget cuts that would have hurt millions of people

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Speaker 3: in our country.

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Speaker 2: So you help to win in that sense, understood? Will

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Speaker 2: you help the President get Progressive Democrats to vote.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I am certainly going to encourage my colleagues to

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Speaker 3: vote to make sure that we pay our nation's bills,

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Speaker 3: that we take care of veterans' healthcare, that we take

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Speaker 3: care of our most vulnerable, and that we protect student borrowers.

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Speaker 3: And this bill does all of those things. Even though

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Speaker 3: it's not perfect. I would have definitely written it differently,

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Speaker 3: but I think it's a good bill that we should

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Speaker 3: cast our votes in favor of some of us.

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Speaker 2: Remember when you were chair of the Democratic National Committee

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Speaker 2: Congress for when I realized you know where that hat today.

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Speaker 2: But I wonder if you see this helping President Biden

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Speaker 2: win reelection.

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Speaker 3: Well, anytime that you have a president who's led the

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Speaker 3: effort in successfully avoiding default and stopping Republicans from not

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Speaker 3: paying our bills, that would have been devastating to our economy,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to the Chair of the Republican National Committe,

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Speaker 3: Ron McDaniel, who actually publicly suggested that playing with the

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Speaker 3: debt feeling and defaulting on our debt would vode well

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Speaker 3: for Republicans. That's disgusting and even when I was chair,

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Speaker 3: I would never have suggested that devastating our economy was

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Speaker 3: a winning proposition for any political party. So that shows

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Speaker 3: you how extreme the Republicans are. Their own party leaders

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Speaker 3: actually said that it was advantageous politically for them to

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Speaker 3: play this game and hold up and hold the economy hostage.

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Speaker 3: Voters have a choice in next November and they should

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Speaker 3: remember that.

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Speaker 2: So what's going to happen here? And we do know that,

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Speaker 2: you know, of course, Donald Trump also suggested that it

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Speaker 2: would it would be a good idea to default as

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Speaker 2: part of making a deal here. What's going to happen?

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Speaker 2: Can you tell our listeners who are who've been concerned

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Speaker 2: about this for a good period of time. I know

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Speaker 2: we've got a deal here, but we've got to go

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Speaker 2: through the real business of getting this passed now. I

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Speaker 2: know it comes out of rules today, assuming it will.

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Speaker 2: Do you see this passing the House tomorrow night.

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Speaker 3: Well, there are several important steps that have to happen,

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Speaker 3: including that the Republicans have to pass their rules. I

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Speaker 3: mean that their extreme policy is something they have to

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Speaker 3: carry themselves procedurally. That will happen initially out of the

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Speaker 3: Rules committee, and then you know, let's see if the

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Speaker 3: Republicans can deliver the votes for the bad parts of

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Speaker 3: this of this deal, which there are a few that

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Speaker 3: they insisted upon, They insisted upon, you know, holding the

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Speaker 3: economy hostage for flat funding, and you know that they

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Speaker 3: should put the votes up. And I'm sure that there

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Speaker 3: are Democrats that will join them, but it's their responsibility

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Speaker 3: to get this still out of the House.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We were joined by Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts a

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Speaker 2: couple of days ago and was specifically addressing the issue

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Speaker 2: of work requirements, and I know you've made clear that

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Speaker 2: you don't love the way that ended up in the bill.

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Speaker 2: He said that he's sick and tired of trying to

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Speaker 2: deal with budgetary challenges by screwing poor people. Is he

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Speaker 2: right about that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he is right about that. It is totally We

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Speaker 3: already have work requirements for that kind of assistance and

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Speaker 3: for a wide range of assistants. And to suggest that

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Speaker 3: people who are struggling don't want to work and that

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Speaker 3: they just want to sit fat and happy and collect

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Speaker 3: a government check is insulting, ridiculous, and discriminatory. That said,

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Speaker 3: in order to make sure that we can protect our

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Speaker 3: economy from Republican extremism, the minor change to work requirements

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Speaker 3: and it phases in and then phases out while expanding

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Speaker 3: the food stamp benefits to include veterans' former foster youth

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Speaker 3: and people who are homeless. That's a good trade off

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Speaker 3: because all of it is temporary.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if you'll be able to turn Jim mcgovernor

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Speaker 2: into a guest vote. Congresswoman.

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Speaker 3: I have a lot of faith in Jim McGovern's judgment,

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Speaker 3: as well as you know all of my colleagues on

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Speaker 3: the Democratics side of the aisle. We're here because we

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Speaker 3: fought to make sure, alongside President Biden, that the Republicans

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Speaker 3: couldn't refuse to pay our bills, couldn't cut veterans' healthcare

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Speaker 3: who are exposed to toxic substances, and couldn't pass their

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Speaker 3: extreme budget cuts that would have devastated millions of people

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Speaker 3: in this country. So that's who we fought for successfully

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Speaker 3: and reach the kind of deal that President Biden is

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Speaker 3: so skilled in negotiating.

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Speaker 2: Good to have you back, Congresswoman w Washington Democrats from Florida.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that we haven't spoken since the State of

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Speaker 2: the Union, and boy a lot has happened since then.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Governor of Florida is making tracks across Iowa.

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Speaker 2: Ron de Santis digging in now as a formal candidate.

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Speaker 2: There are waves here looking like Chris Christy may be

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Speaker 2: about to jump in as well. The former governor of

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Speaker 2: New Jersey has a super PAC, remembering that many in

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Speaker 2: the party said he would be the one, he could

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Speaker 2: be the only one to go head to head with

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump is a TV star, nothing more, nothing less,

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Speaker 4: a TV star. And let me suggest to you that

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Speaker 4: if we put him back in the White House, the

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Speaker 4: reruns will be worse than the original show was.

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Speaker 2: Right there, he is Chris Christy in New Hampshire just

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Speaker 2: about a month ago. Make those comments as I read

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Speaker 2: on the terminal now laying the foundation for a presidential run,

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Speaker 2: Allies establishing a super political action committee, a super pack

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Speaker 2: that could give a boost to a long shot bit

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Speaker 2: some of suggested maybe he's a spoiler. Maybe he just

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Speaker 2: gets in there just to knock Trump off his pedestal,

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Speaker 2: so Ronda Santis can make a move, or another Republican

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Speaker 2: who might have more promise in a general election. Mark

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Speaker 2: Niqutt joined us right now Bloomberg National Politics reporter covering

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Speaker 2: this and traveling in fact with Ron de Santis across

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Speaker 2: the state of Iowa. Is is this going to have

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Speaker 2: an impact on the field, Mark, or is this just

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Speaker 2: going to be a footnote once it's all over the

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Speaker 2: day that Chris Christy got a super pack.

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Speaker 5: Well, we'll see its signals that Christie is serious about running.

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Speaker 5: We expect some kind of announcement in the next week

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Speaker 5: or so. And Christy, maybe more than any other potential candidate,

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Speaker 5: has been willing to be critical of Donald Trump. The

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Speaker 5: other candidate have all sort of, you know, politely criticized

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Speaker 5: Trump if they if they criticize him at all, for

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Speaker 5: fear of alienating Trump's supporters, Trump's voters, and Christy has

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Speaker 5: not held back. I would say Christy and Christanna, the

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Speaker 5: governor of New Hampshire is also considering a presidential bid,

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Speaker 5: both have been very vocal in criticizing uh Trump and saying,

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Speaker 5: you know, the party would be foolish to nominate Trump

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Speaker 5: again because essentially it's lost the last three federal election

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Speaker 5: cycles under Trump. So Christy and the race would be

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Speaker 5: you know, a clear would bring clear attacks on Trump,

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Speaker 5: and everybody's kind of waiting to see if Christy qualifies

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Speaker 5: for the first presidential debate in August. You know what

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Speaker 5: that would look like and what he could do to Trump,

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Speaker 5: because Christy maybe single handedly ended Marco Rubio's presidential hopes

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Speaker 5: in a New Hampshire debate in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: The super pac is called tellent like it is and

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Speaker 2: actually has some pedigree here. It'll be run by Brian Jones,

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Speaker 2: a veteran of the John McCain and Mitt Romney presidential campaigns.

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Speaker 2: According to reporting here on Bloomberg, the chair Republican National

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Speaker 2: Committee member Bill Palatucci. What does that mean for Christie's chances?

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Speaker 2: That these are the I presume the individuals who might

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Speaker 2: fill out a campaign staff if we actually see one.

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Speaker 5: Well, these are the folks who would run the super pac,

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Speaker 5: which has the ability to raise and spend unlimited campaign funds.

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Speaker 5: You know, the campaign is more limited in what it

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Speaker 5: can raise and spend and the super pac is called

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Speaker 5: tell It Like it Is, which is sort of a

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Speaker 5: nod to Christy's blunt style. Says it's comfortable it'll have

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Speaker 5: the resources needed to support a Christy bit if he

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Speaker 5: decides to run.

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Speaker 2: Tell us more about iron de Santis has planned for

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Speaker 2: this week. Mark. We spent a lot of time talking

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Speaker 2: about Twitter spaces last week. I realized that may not

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Speaker 2: be the way he would do this all over again.

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Speaker 2: But it's time to hit the road, hitting the early

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Speaker 2: voting states, and that's what brings you to Iowa. How's

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Speaker 2: he doing there?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I mean, you know, I want to say

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Speaker 5: New Hampshire, not quite. I mean Iowa's governor to governor,

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Speaker 5: Santis is holding his first sort of official campaign rally.

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Speaker 5: He's calling a campaign kickoff event in Des Moines tonight

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Speaker 5: and then he's launching a tour of Iowa on Wednesday.

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Speaker 5: He's hitting four different states for different cities around the state,

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Speaker 5: which as the first in the nation caucuses. Of course,

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Speaker 5: it will be sort of his first official, you know,

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Speaker 5: campaign actions as as a declared candidate. After you, as

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Speaker 5: you mentioned, after his sort of disastrous launch on the

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Speaker 5: Twitter spaces last week, and he's following stop here in

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Speaker 5: Iowa with a trip to New Hampshire and South Carolina,

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Speaker 5: which vote next in the primary calendar at the end

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Speaker 5: of the week.

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Speaker 2: How much of this has to do with getting to

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Speaker 2: know voters versus fundraising or is it both?

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Speaker 5: It's both, but it's it's particularly important to see how

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Speaker 5: Destantus connects with voters in a state like Iowa, where

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Speaker 5: the voters take the responsibility very seriously to vet the candidates,

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Speaker 5: you know, be the first to formerly vote in presdential caucuses.

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Speaker 5: And you know, the the voters here in Iowa, they

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Speaker 5: want to meet their candidates, they want to talk to

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Speaker 5: the candidates if they can. And you know, the knock

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Speaker 5: on Governor DeSantis is that he's just not very good

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Speaker 5: at retail policy. He don't like to do it. He

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Speaker 5: doesn't like to schmooze. It's the kind of thing he

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Speaker 5: needs to do u if he wants to win the

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Speaker 5: Iowa caucuses, he's going to have to connect with voters.

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Speaker 5: And his campaign trip this week I think is sort

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Speaker 5: of the start at that.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for bringing us the goods from Iowa Market

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Speaker 2: to Katty's going to be on the road for I

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Speaker 2: think Mark actually lives on the road. Bloomberg National politics

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Speaker 2: reporter traveling with Governor Ron De Santis in Iowa as

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Speaker 2: we reassembled the panel for their take here on the campaign,

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzo, nothing more fun than talking

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Speaker 2: about this stuff now that we've made our way through

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Speaker 2: the debtlimit for at least a little bit of time here.

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Speaker 2: What's your thought, Rick on a Chris Christie super package

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Speaker 2: to make you laugh for? Is this a waste of time?

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Speaker 2: What's the point?

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Speaker 7: Well, it's going to have a message. This is a

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Speaker 7: very i would say, well equipped campaign team. Brian Jones

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Speaker 7: is a well known communications guy and so very good

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Speaker 7: at messaging. He did that for the McCain campaign for

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Speaker 7: a while. Palatucci RNC member another old hand, Mike Duham

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Speaker 7: was one of my political directors into mcain. Cammick. These

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Speaker 7: guys know national politics and they will lay some hurt

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Speaker 7: on Donald Trump. I mean that seems to be their

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Speaker 7: primary focus. They're not necessarily playing to win, They're playing

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Speaker 7: to make sure Donald Trump doesn't win. And so you know,

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Speaker 7: with money coming from people like Steve Cohen and Scaremucci,

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Speaker 7: he could be funded enough to have an impact on

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Speaker 7: the outcome of the race as it relates to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: As opposed to winning the election and being the next president,

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Speaker 2: though it seems like he's being sort of a hired

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Speaker 2: hit man in this case.

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Speaker 7: You know, sometimes you have to go ballistic to create

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Speaker 7: enough elbow room to get into the story, and so

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Speaker 7: I think that that's probably what he's trying to do.

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Speaker 7: Is you know, he knows he can't get anywhere toward

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Speaker 7: a win unless Donald Trump has a chip come out

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Speaker 7: of him, and so he's looking to ship away at

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Speaker 7: that lead and bring him back down. You know, there's

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Speaker 7: an old saying in politics, so you know, if you've

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Speaker 7: got a net negative campaign image, just make sure the

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Speaker 7: guy next to you is even more negative. And that's

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Speaker 7: where we're headed in this Republican primary.

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Speaker 2: Interesting prospect here watching this unfold, Genie, is this everything

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Speaker 2: that Donald Trump wants? Just a couple more people to

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Speaker 2: water down the whole thing here?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the part of this. To

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Speaker 8: Rick's point, he can certainly chip away. He's been doing

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Speaker 8: that for a long time. I'm just not sure why

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Speaker 8: he can't do that. From the outside, he's been very

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Speaker 8: vocally opposed to Donald Trump. He's been going after him aggressively,

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Speaker 8: but getting into the race, if he does choose to

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Speaker 8: do that means there's just another person in the race.

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Speaker 8: And as we've always said, the more people in this thing,

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Speaker 8: the better chance Donald Trump has of surviving this primary,

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Speaker 8: this primary so season. So you know, I don't know

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Speaker 8: if this works to against Trump rather, and you know,

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Speaker 8: so I do question why he's actually doing it, especially

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Speaker 8: because the likelihood that he could really make a go

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Speaker 8: of this is very, very small. And I am completely

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Speaker 8: biased here, but I lived through Bridgegate. He's got a

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Speaker 8: lot of baggage himself. That was a very petty political maneuver,

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Speaker 8: and for people who live near the bridge, it doesn't

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Speaker 8: seem like a big deal. But it's a big deal

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Speaker 8: if you get over that bridge every day, and that's

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Speaker 8: oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sure what ball news is local. But that doesn't keep

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Speaker 2: him from being a hired assassin in this case, does it.

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Speaker 2: You bring him in for a couple of months, knock

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Speaker 2: Trump down and let the rest happen.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you can do that, but let's not forget he

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Speaker 8: went into the race in twenty sixteen and was out

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Speaker 8: in early February touting Trump for the next five years now,

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Speaker 8: did he change his mind? Absolutely, he's going aggressively again.

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Speaker 8: I just don't know that getting into this thing does

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Speaker 8: anything but help Trump because he's gonna hold his thirty

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Speaker 8: So the more people in this thing, the better off

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Speaker 8: for Trump.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about Rond de Santis a little bit, then, Rick,

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Speaker 2: it's go time here. I tend to think that Twitter

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Speaker 2: spaces bit from last week will be forgotten. How important

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Speaker 2: are these days though, these early days, when he's shaking hands,

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Speaker 2: walking into rooms for the first time in Iowa and

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Speaker 2: New Hampshire.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, he's clearly placing a bet in Iowa, which

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Speaker 7: is not always a guarantee. Yeah, And so hitting these counties,

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Speaker 7: he's he's gonna hit four counties this week. He's only

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Speaker 7: got another ninety five to go before he hits them all.

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Speaker 7: And what a nightmare, and and and and yet this

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Speaker 7: is a serious contender. And the thing you got to remember,

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Speaker 7: all this talk about thirty percent, you know, Trump and

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Speaker 7: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: This is a national number.

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Speaker 7: The only thing that matters is what you get in Iowa,

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Speaker 7: what you get in New Hampshire, what you get in

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Speaker 7: South Carolina. And right now the Iowa campaign is shaping

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Speaker 7: up to be very competitive. There are there's just a

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Speaker 7: hair's breath between the public polling in Iowa between Donald

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Speaker 7: Trump and and DeSantis. And I think as other people

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Speaker 7: get into this race, remember we've got another big foot

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Speaker 7: to drop on, not just Chris Christy, but you know,

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Speaker 7: Vice President Pence and and there. These are folks who

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Speaker 7: are going to have different impacts in different states. Christy

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Speaker 7: may be in New Hampshire, but definitely Pence in Iowa

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Speaker 7: and souh Trump's ability to win a caucus gets more

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Speaker 7: and more complex, different from a national picture, a state

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Speaker 7: picture like Iowa.

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Speaker 2: Latest poll we've seen from Iowa comes from Emerson Genie

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Speaker 2: Trump sixty two, DeSantis twenty, Haley five, Pence five, Robin

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Speaker 2: Swami two, Scott three, Hutchinson won Sanunu one. Don't see

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Speaker 2: the name Christian here anywhere, but Desanta's twenty Trump sixty two.

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Speaker 2: My goodness, What does Ron de Santis need to do?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 8: I think he needs to do what he's been trying

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Speaker 8: to do in the last you know, since he announced,

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Speaker 8: which is hit Trump hard as he can without alienating

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Speaker 8: his supporters in the macro world, which is tough to do.

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Speaker 8: I think it is doable. I think Ron DeSantis is

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Speaker 8: in some ways underestimated. But I think the biggest challenge

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Speaker 8: for Ron DeSantis is going to be appealing in the middle.

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Speaker 8: I mean, he is making an argument that he can

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Speaker 8: win the Republican nomination and then beat Joe Biden and

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Speaker 8: serve for two terms. I'm not so certain with a

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Speaker 8: six week abortion band he can win in those purple states.

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Speaker 8: I'm not so sure he can win women. That's a

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Speaker 8: big challenge for him. And I also am not understanding

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Speaker 8: his argument about Disney. He got married at Disney. Americans

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Speaker 8: generally like Disney, and he spends a lot of time

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Speaker 8: talking about how Disney is sexualizing children and other things.

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Speaker 8: It's really a baffling message.

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Speaker 2: Just to get back to the Chris Christie thing for

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Speaker 2: a moment, Rick, you've been among those doubting whether Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump would ever get on a debate stage. If that's

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Speaker 2: the case, if Donald Trump does not show up at

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Speaker 2: these debates, does Chris Christy matter. You know, he's going to.

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Speaker 7: Take up time, and his time will be completely devoted

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Speaker 7: to bashing Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: So that's where the real combat would happen. Right, He

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Speaker 2: can buy a lot of ads, but once you're on stage,

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Speaker 2: it's different. Yeah, I think he.

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Speaker 7: Tends to tilt it toward, you know, the anti Trump perspective.

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Speaker 7: Like what you said earlier, a lot of these other

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Speaker 7: candidates are just bypassing the opportunity to engage with Trump

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Speaker 7: and at least with Christy on the stage. If he

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Speaker 7: can get on the stage, you've got someone who you

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Speaker 7: will know we'll go after him. And I would say

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Speaker 7: I'm kind of impressed with DeSantis going after Trump over

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Speaker 7: the weekend. I mean, there was definitely little smoke. I

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Speaker 7: don't know if there's fire, but there's definitely smoke between

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Speaker 7: those camps.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for sure. The veil is off, as Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: writes on this one, referring to the culture of losing,

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Speaker 2: but also speaking more specifically about Donald Trump, a genie

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Speaker 2: drawing contrasts is where he's going to have to go

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Speaker 2: in the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 8: No, he is, and I thought he did a good

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Speaker 8: job of doing that when it came to the deficit

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Speaker 8: and the debt, for example. So I think he does

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Speaker 8: have arguments to make. I do think he is going

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Speaker 8: to keep improving. We saw Barack Obama improve in O seven,

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Speaker 8: Desanti's first time out nationally. He will keep improving the

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Speaker 8: more he does this. But the challenge for him, I

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Speaker 8: still think is pulling enough from Donald Trump to get

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Speaker 8: the nomination and then more specifically trying to win in

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Speaker 8: those middle grounds of America where his policies in Florida

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Speaker 8: may not sell in the same way he thinks they will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Genie Shanzano, Rick Davis, many thanks to both of you,

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Speaker 2: great conversation. Coming off the long weekend. We needed some

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Speaker 2: insights from our signature panel here, not only on the

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Speaker 2: debt ceiling deal where it's going in Congress, but also

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Speaker 2: whatever is about to happen next on the campaign trails.

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436
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew along with Kayleie Lines in Washington. Nice

437
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: to see you after a long weekend, although I saw

438
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: you repeatedly over the weekend on television, Qualify how long

439
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 2: it really was. But look, there's a deal. You don't

440
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: think that there might be a moment of celebration surrounding

441
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: a deal, since we spent weeks speculating on it, this

442
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 2: elusive thing. It actually happened while you were having dinner

443
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: on Saturday night, and I've heard largely nothing but criticism

444
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: from lawmakers, I guess on both sides of the isle.

445
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 9: Yeah. Well, by nature of this being a compromise, it

446
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 9: means that on either side there are going to be

447
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 9: some members unhappy, including the far right who would have

448
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 9: liked to see deeper spending cuts, a bigger increase in

449
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 9: defense spending, something more akin to the bill that the

450
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 9: House actually passed, and on the left, those stricter work

451
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 9: requirements for entitlements. Some of the energy provisions within this

452
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 9: are also drawing hire. So it kind of as a

453
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 9: nobody wins scenario. Although in theory, if we avoid default,

454
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 9: doesn't America win?

455
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: Joe, well, yeah, actually you could argue the global economy

456
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 2: is a win.

457
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 4: Here.

458
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: We spoke with W. Wasserman Schultz earlier in the broadcast.

459
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: Democrat from Florida used to run the DNC an ally

460
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: of Joe Biden's. She is a yes vote. She's helping

461
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: to convince progressive she said, even though there are things

462
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: she doesn't like in this bill. She wouldn't have written

463
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: it this way. We got to vote yes. You're pointing

464
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: us to a headline here Speaker McCarthy thinks his job

465
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: is safe. Yeah, we have no reason to doubt that,

466
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: although we did, I guess, get the first motion here,

467
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 2: is that real or talk.

468
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 9: Of introducing the solution? Yeah. Congressman Dan Bishop of North Carolina,

469
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 9: who is a member of the Freedom Caucus and was

470
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 9: at that Freedom Caucus news conference in front of the

471
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 9: Capitol earlier this afternoon, says that you do have to

472
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 9: file that motion to vacate the speakership. There's just a

473
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 9: question of ay whether that actually becomes reality and then

474
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 9: be what kind of support realistically that could get. When

475
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 9: we've heard a lot of conversation, Joe about how it's

476
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 9: only US journalists that are really asking this question and

477
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 9: that no one is actually talking about trying to kick

478
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 9: McCarthy out of having the gavel, and your Dan Bishop,

479
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 9: this is.

480
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 10: A career defining vote for every Republican. All of you

481
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 10: guys know that thus far in this Congress, the dynamic

482
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 10: force in Washington has been the unified House majority. The

483
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 10: fact that we resolved in January on concrete details how

484
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 10: we were going to go forward together, and it has

485
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 10: been impactful over the first several months of commerce. Imagine

486
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 10: the decision of Kevin McCarthy and his negotiators to forfeit.

487
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 2: That Wow, this after Chip Roy says that there was

488
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: a breach in the negotiations last week, and he didn't

489
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: hold back on what he thought about this either.

490
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 11: If you're out there watching this, every one of my

491
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 11: colleagues be very clear, not one Republican should vote for

492
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 11: this deal. It is a bad deal. No one sent

493
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 11: us here to borrow an additional four trillion dollars to

494
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 11: get absolutely nothing in return. But at best, if I'm

495
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 11: being really generous, a spending freeze for a couple of years.

496
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 11: That's it.

497
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: This is what it sounds like today in Washington.

498
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 9: Well, and Congressman Roy went on to say that there

499
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 9: is going to be a record and Joe, we have

500
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 9: to keep in mind that Chip Roy is one of

501
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 9: those Republicans who sits on the Rules Committee, who is

502
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 9: set to meet less than an hour from now to

503
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 9: discuss this measure and decide whether or not to advance

504
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 9: it to the House floor for a vote. And It's

505
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 9: not just Chip Roy who has been making noise about

506
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 9: his discontent for the bill. Another member of the Rules Committee,

507
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 9: Congressman Ralph Norman, has as well.

508
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 12: The interest on the debt is going to exceed our

509
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 12: military budget. If we keep going away, We're going somewhere.

510
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 12: Somebody has got to stop it. This group behind me

511
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 12: is willing to do that. I'm on Rules Committee. It's

512
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 12: a great committee. We know everything coming through. But folks,

513
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 12: if we can stop it there, I will stop it.

514
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 8: Man.

515
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: So this is normally a committee that does not tend

516
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: to get a lot of coverage, but it should be

517
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 2: a free for all.

518
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 9: I guess today based on that, it seems like a

519
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 9: lot is going to ride on Tom Massey Joe Yeah.

520
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, right. So Mick mulvaney says in the op ed

521
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: this morning in the Hill Minor miracle, the headline, Conservative's

522
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: got a win out of a debt ceiling showdown. It's

523
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: like night and day from what we just heard.

524
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, when they are saying they got nothing, not a

525
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 9: zip zild zero.

526
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: Mix with us. Now, he talks to us each week

527
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: around this time. We're sort of all feeling like it's Monday.

528
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: So we couldn't do this without him, the former OMB director,

529
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: former acting White House Chief of Staff. I will also

530
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: add co founder the House Freedom Caucus, Nick, what would

531
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: you tell your former colleagues and the Freedom Caucus this morning?

532
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: What would be your message to the chip Roys in Washington.

533
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be able to convince

534
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 6: Chip Royd to vote for this, and I'm not even

535
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 6: sure I would vote for it myself.

536
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: But that's that's not the point.

537
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 13: The point is.

538
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 6: That it's a pretty good deal based upon other debt

539
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 6: ceiling deals. Keep in mind, you know, Chip came out

540
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 6: and said, you know, at best to get a spending freeze,

541
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 6: I'd love a spending free We never get that in Washington, DC.

542
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 6: We never get you know, new work requirements. We never

543
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 6: get clawback of any money. As I mentioned in the

544
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 6: in the in the outed in the Hill, one of

545
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 6: the things that this absolutely floored me when I got

546
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 6: to OMB in twenty seventeen was that we still had

547
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 6: money from Hurricane Katrina that hadn't been spent yet, and

548
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 6: that was in what two thousand and five or something

549
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 6: like that. We never claw back money. So I get

550
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 6: the fact that this doesn't look like what conservatives would

551
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 6: want if they're drawing from on a blank piece of paper.

552
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 6: But it's better than every other debt ceiling deal I'm

553
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 6: familiar with the last ones we dealt with with Trumpet

554
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 6: office spending went up. We had a Republican House or

555
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 6: Republican Senate or Republican White House, and spending went up.

556
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 6: So I get it, and I understand the frustration, But

557
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to bring some perspective to this over

558
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 6: how well they don't like it. It's certainly better than

559
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 6: anything I ever got a chance to vote for, and.

560
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 9: Yet you still wouldn't have voted yes for it.

561
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 6: Well, in this one, it's hard to be a fiscal

562
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,239
Speaker 6: conservative and vote for this thing on the floor. Now,

563
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 6: keep in mind, the issue is not on the floor.

564
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 6: I think there's going to be there's going to be

565
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 6: enough votes on the floor. My guess is Kevin gets someplace,

566
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 6: McCarthy gets about one hundred and fifties number. I'm hearing

567
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty yes votes and ned be a

568
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 6: nice comfortamle margin. That means the seventy Republicans against it,

569
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 6: and I'm hearing sort of a similar distribution amongst Democrats

570
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 6: exactly what you folks mentioned, Kayley, I think in the

571
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 6: lead in which is you're going to lose the fault

572
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 6: right and you're going to lose the far left. That

573
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 6: was always the formula right. This bill has to have

574
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 6: sixty votes in the Senate, which means it has to

575
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 6: be bipartisan, and the far right and the far left

576
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 6: don't vote for bipartisan bills. That's the way this was

577
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 6: going to happen from the very beginning. To me, in

578
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 6: my mind, morristying thing is the Rules Committee tonight, and

579
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 6: you guys mentioned it very briefly. Kevin McCarthy can afford

580
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 6: to lose three votes. It sounds like he's lost to

581
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 6: Chip Roy and Mike Congressman Ralph Norman, and that leaves

582
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 6: Massey as sort of a swing vote. I've not asked

583
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 6: Thomas this question, but keep in mind that there's language

584
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 6: in the bill that Thomas asked for and wrote, and

585
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 6: that dealt with the one percent across the board automatic

586
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 6: cut on a cr It's really hard to vote against

587
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 6: a bill in Rules Committee when the leadership put your

588
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 6: language in the bill to begin with. And it wouldn't

589
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 6: surprise me to see Thomas vote for tonight and the

590
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 6: rulesman against it on the floor.

591
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: Well, Congressman Chip Roy says, when it gets to the floor,

592
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: every Republican should vote no. And the question in that

593
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: news conference, and I'd love to hear you weigh in

594
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: on this, Mick, is well, then what what would you

595
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: suggest we do if not default next Monday?

596
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 11: Here's what he said, he should pull this bill down,

597
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 11: and then we should do exactly what we're do right now.

598
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 11: We have COVID recisions right now, COVID recisions are in

599
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 11: the bill, COVID recisions of twenty nine billion dollars. They've

600
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 11: already taken that in this bill, and they've swept twenty

601
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 11: two billion and just set it over the Department of Commerce.

602
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 11: It's best for play money. It's take that money, take

603
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 11: IRS money, and go tell Jenny Yellen you're gonna pay

604
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 11: every bill you need to pay, and we're gonna sit

605
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 11: down at the table and do the job for the

606
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 11: American people.

607
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like the most realistic view, though, Micked,

608
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: what do you think you know?

609
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 6: If I wanted to try and and and put that

610
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 6: in in context, that made some sense. I think what

611
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 6: he's trying to say this is that there's enough money

612
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 6: to prioritize, and default is non payment of debt and

613
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 6: your interest. Okay, keep in mind, paying back debt is

614
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 6: easy for us because all we do is borrow more money.

615
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,239
Speaker 6: You borrow one hundred dollars new to pay off one

616
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 6: hundred dollars old that you are, you owe right, So

617
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 6: that's a net zero impact on your debt status. It

618
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 6: doesn't increase your debt, it doesn't decrease your debt. You

619
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 6: just refinance. So really the only thing you have to

620
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 6: come out of pocket for is interest, and there's plenty

621
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 6: of money to pay the interest. One of the you know,

622
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 6: one of the things Washington fights about is what is

623
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 6: a default. Democrats say that, you know, any any failure

624
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 6: to pay any obligation is a default. Republic And say, no,

625
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 6: failure to pay principle and there's just on debt is

626
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 6: a default. I happen to agree with the Republicans on

627
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 6: that one. So I think if I wanted it to

628
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 6: be as charitable as I could, what Woyd just Chip

629
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 6: just said is like, look, there's plenty of money to prioritize.

630
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 6: Jan Yellen is never going to be the first Treasury secretary.

631
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 6: The default on the debt, and if an interest payment

632
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 6: comes due, I think the first interest payment is due

633
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 6: to June sixteen, She's going to pay it.

634
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 9: Well, so make Sure's the problem is that when you

635
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 9: look at what Pitchery, for example, put out last week

636
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 9: when putting the US's triple A credit rating on watch negative,

637
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 9: they specifically in that release said prioritization as well as

638
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 9: other alternatives like the fourteen Amendment or the trillion dollar

639
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 9: coin would not be consistent with a triple A credit rating.

640
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 9: So ultimately we would maybe still see a downgrade to

641
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 9: the US like we saw in twenty eleven, just like

642
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 9: we've heard Treasury Secretary Jenny Yellen warning repeatedly hearkening back

643
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 9: to twenty eleven, it's not just the X date that matters,

644
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 9: it's that it's we're getting too close to it. Do

645
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 9: you see this thing actually going down to that wire?

646
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 6: No, I actually think I think. I think it comes

647
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 6: out of the committee tonight and I think it passes.

648
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 6: But you know, I've got to push back on that

649
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 6: narrative because that's that's not entirely true. What you just

650
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 6: laid out is not what happened in twenty eleven. I'm

651
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 6: sitting here, and I'm looking right now at the at

652
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 6: the memo from S and P in twenty and eleven,

653
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 6: and the opening line is that here it is the

654
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 6: downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that

655
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 6: Congress and Medministration recently agreed to fall short of what,

656
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 6: in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's

657
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 6: mid term medium term debt dynamics. We got downgraded in

658
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 6: twenty eleven because the deal was so lousy. Keep in mind,

659
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 6: we got downgraded after the deal was announced. Okay, if

660
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 6: you get downgraded again, it's not going to be because

661
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 6: it was so hard to come up with a debt

662
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 6: ceiling deal. It's going to be downgrade because because the debt,

663
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 6: the rating agencies are worried about our ability to pay

664
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 6: our debt going forward because we're borrowing too much money

665
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 6: of it. So I listen, I don't want to get

666
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 6: a discussion about, you know, what happens with Fitch and

667
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 6: so forth. But I think it's it's not accurate to

668
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 6: say that it's just the debt ceiling discussion that could

669
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 6: lead to a downgrade. It's the debt that could lead

670
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 6: to a downgrade.

671
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 2: What does that mean for us this time around? Mick,

672
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: are we still at risk of a downgrade? We just

673
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: got our deal, we don't have a sequester in place,

674
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: but there's great discord in Washington still.

675
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that. By the way, the SMP thing

676
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 6: does mention exactly the political discourse and the lack of

677
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 6: a civil discourse in another section, so it all sort

678
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 6: of comes together.

679
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

680
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 6: I think you are at risk of a downgrade for

681
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 6: a variety of reasons, the primary one being that we're

682
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 6: going to continue to borrow more money. We don't have

683
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 6: a plan to pay but we know we haven't paid

684
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 6: back any debts in two thousand and one. Think about

685
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 6: that for a second. We have not paid back a

686
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 6: penny of debts in two thousand and one, and we

687
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 6: have no plans to pay back a penny of debt.

688
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 6: Our plan is to continue to refinance, borrowing new money

689
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 6: to pay off hold and then use tax revenues to

690
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 6: pay the interest. So do I worry about a downgrade?

691
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 6: I do, But I worry about it separate and apart

692
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 6: from whether or not this bill passes in the next

693
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 6: twenty four hours.

694
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: Does the market have a sense of that, Kayley, I'm

695
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: not sure it does.

696
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would agree with that, Mick, just on the

697
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 9: subject of things you're worried about. Last time we spoke,

698
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 9: you didn't seem worried about Speaker McCarthy's fate as speaker.

699
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 9: You said he was likely going to stay in that job,

700
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 9: and we mentioned at the top of the hour that

701
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 9: he said yes when he was asked if his speakership

702
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 9: is safe. But you hear from Dan Bishop, the congressman

703
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 9: from North Carolina today is saying that the motion to

704
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 9: vacate has to be done. You think this really goes anywhere?

705
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 6: Keep in mind with it, they filed the motion to

706
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 6: vacate it against John Bayner weeks before he actually left,

707
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 6: so you can file the motion and not bring it up.

708
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 6: So the filing of the motion is not necessarily the trigger.

709
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 6: It's the vote on the motion. But I understand what Bishop.

710
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 6: Dan and I are friends. Dan went to law school together.

711
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 6: He lives about a mile from me. I understand where

712
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 6: he's coming from. Here's what I'm hearing is that when

713
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 6: John Bayner. When we ran John Bayner off, we did

714
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 6: it partly because of policy, but also partly because of

715
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 6: his management style. It was very top down take it

716
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 6: or leave it, you know, vote for this or else

717
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 6: you're a bad republic and that kind of stuff. It

718
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 6: was a very sort of heavy handed approach. Everybody I've

719
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 6: talked to says that even if they disagree with the

720
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 6: deal that McCarthy has cut, I'm not hearing that same

721
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 6: complaint about McCarthy's style. So I don't it takes more

722
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 6: than just a policy differentiation before you people start voting

723
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 6: to get rid of the speaker. Reasonable people know that

724
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 6: folks are going to disagree on policy, you know, from

725
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 6: time to time anyway, And I just don't see that yet.

726
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 6: I think, in my gut do they probably give McCarthy

727
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 6: some slack regardless of the outcome here, and that more

728
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 6: attention comes down on how the spending matters are handled

729
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 6: at the end of the fiscal year in September than

730
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 6: how this was handled on the get suum.

731
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: Nick, thank you. Find the otbeds at the Hill. Nick mulvaney,

732
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: former OMB director, former acting the White House Sheep Staff

733
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: former called pout of the House Freedom Caucus, and I'm

734
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: wondering if the Speaker has lost the Freedom Caucus.

735
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound on podcast catch the

736
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

737
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app.

738
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

739
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

740
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: Always interesting to watch a space launch, a rocket launch.

741
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: But this time, Kaylee, it was not a Nassau launch,

742
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: It was not a SpaceX launch.

743
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: It was a.

744
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: Rocket ship from China. Impressive launch too, going up to

745
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: the International Space Station. And I'm just going to guess

746
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: right now that most people in this country are not

747
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: aware that China is the only nation in the world

748
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: that is operating its own space station.

749
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 9: I would agree because I literally didn't know until this

750
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 9: morning when we talked about.

751
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: Doing this, because we objected to Chinese participation in the ISS,

752
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: and well, everyone else is involved in that. So they said, okay,

753
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: we'll make our own three two one. There it goes

754
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: Shenju sixteen. This courtesy of CGTN State Media in China.

755
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: This is the eleventh crude mission for China and they

756
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: will be on their way three astronauts to the Chinese

757
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: Space Station sometime with China now set to send astronauts

758
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: to the Moon by twenty thirty, remembering that they became

759
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: the first to land on the dark side of the Moon,

760
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: and so there are a lot of questions about what

761
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: this space race.

762
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Is going to look like.

763
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, especially as we talk about China trying to

764
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 9: get to the Moon by the end of the decade,

765
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,479
Speaker 9: the US wants to put astronauts back on the Moon

766
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 9: in two years, by the end of twenty twenty five.

767
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: You said it, that's Artemis right, return to the Moon,

768
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: and they say we can't go to Mars without that

769
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: stop on the way. Keith Cowing is with us once again,

770
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: the editor at spaceref dot COM's the president of content

771
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: executive editor at Multiverse Media. Keith, it's great to have

772
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: you here. How much is the threat from space a

773
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: real one here? And I don't mean that militarily, just

774
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: when it comes to the space race vying from milestones

775
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: here when it comes to the US and China.

776
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 13: Well, you know, I grew up in the sixties when

777
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 13: they actually had the whole space race thing with US

778
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 13: versus the Soviets, and it was pretty obvious that it

779
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 13: was a race, and it was conducted in that fashion. Well,

780
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 13: flash forward half a century and it's not just two countries,

781
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 13: it's many countries. The technology barriers have been lowered, the

782
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 13: price barriers have been lowered, so that you know, if

783
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 13: you're a little country and you want to launch a

784
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 13: little cube saft for one hundred thousand dollars, you can

785
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 13: have a space program. So the whole polarity thing has changed,

786
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 13: where your friends here, but your enemy's there. And it's

787
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 13: interesting that while the US Congress said, you know, NASA

788
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 13: can't do anything with China, and they cite political reasons,

789
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 13: Russia and the US have been getting along for twenty

790
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 13: years up there. I don't think we would be calling

791
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 13: Russia our friends right now, and so it's just you know,

792
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 13: but it's the nature of the politics at the time

793
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 13: and so forth. But yet I'll add something that just

794
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 13: leave you little spur your questioning. Even though we don't

795
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 13: get along with each other they're on the ground on Earth,

796
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 13: it seems that when we're doing stuff together in space,

797
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 13: we put maybe not all of it, but a lot

798
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 13: of it aside. I know, by the way commercialization of space,

799
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 13: so everybody wants a piece of it too, So it's

800
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 13: a totally different environment these days. So if you're going

801
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 13: to say race, they'll say, well about what what day

802
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 13: of the week?

803
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: Okay?

804
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 9: Well, and then on the subject of it being a race,

805
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 9: why is it consequential who wins?

806
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: Keith?

807
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 13: Well winning?

808
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 4: You know.

809
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 13: I've talked to some people and I did an interview

810
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 13: once and they said, well, wow, what would happen if

811
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 13: China landed.

812
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: On the moon?

813
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 13: And I'd say, we'd be there that afternoon in our

814
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 13: big honk and American landers roll down in the window

815
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 13: and say where you wantest apart?

816
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: I mean, but you know, oh god, but I thought

817
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: they found you.

818
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 4: Keith.

819
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: You caught out right when you said that.

820
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 13: Okay, But as far as two thirds of the world

821
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 13: is concerned, can you hear me? Okay, as far as

822
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 13: two thirds of the world is concerned, they weren't even

823
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 13: born yet. So this is sort of doing the same

824
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 13: thing again for the first time, landing on the moon.

825
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 13: So got to keep that in mind. And so what

826
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 13: used to be unreachable by any country except the Soviet

827
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 13: Union the West, now other countries can. So what does

828
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 13: it mean for them? It means they you sort of

829
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 13: enter a club where your technology is on a par

830
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 13: with the first world, I guess you could say, or

831
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 13: the developed world. But from our perspective, you know, if

832
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 13: if you're threatened by the Chinese, that's probably because you're

833
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 13: not really paying attention to the cutting edge of technology.

834
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 13: If you're waiting to compete with them, then you're at

835
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 13: a par with them because they're using They sat back

836
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 13: and watched dust and the Russians do things, and then

837
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 13: they sort of took the Russian technology. Yeah, and it's

838
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 13: a kid. It's akin to the new folkswagon beetle you

839
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 13: see driving around. It sort of has the shame same

840
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 13: shape as the one from the sixties.

841
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 6: Totally different under the hood.

842
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So with that said, how well resourced

843
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: is China's space pro gram, particularly at a time when

844
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: we're withholding semiconductors other computing technology that they cannot get

845
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: their hands on and might need to go to.

846
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: The Moon or Mars.

847
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 13: Well, I believe that you probably have a technological sophistication

848
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 13: within their industry. Now, whether how it was developed indigenously

849
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 13: or broad or whatever. I don't think that's an issue

850
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 13: for them. Their funding is lower than ours, but it's

851
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 13: a very methodical, steady. You can just sense exactly. They're

852
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 13: being methodical about this, and so it may take them

853
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 13: longer to do the same thing, and they may do

854
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 13: some things more than we would have, but they are

855
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 13: also doing some really gutsy things like landing on the

856
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 13: far side of the moon. So they're ready to take risks,

857
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 13: and you know, you got to factor that into the equation.

858
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 13: They may have less, but they may try and do

859
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 13: more well.

860
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 9: And what's the role of the private sector when it

861
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 9: comes to non US space efforts Because obviously here we

862
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 9: have NASA giving massive contracts, contracts to SpaceX. It seems like,

863
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 9: you know, every billionaire has a space company in some

864
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 9: shape or form. But what's true in China.

865
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 13: Well, again, it's a different It's sort of like with Europe.

866
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 13: You've got Airbus, which has a huge governmental European investiture,

867
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 13: but it's a competing business. And then in China you

868
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 13: have a lot of these spinoffs that are starting up

869
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 13: with government funding. So I don't know. I think he

870
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 13: probably could just stand back and say what is the

871
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 13: nature of any commercial startup with China and he can

872
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 13: apply with that here. But on the other hand, they're

873
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 13: paying attention suddenly you seeing they're doing rockets can land

874
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 13: and landing fins. Oh who started that? And where did

875
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 13: Elon get that idea? Actually from science fiction? He watched

876
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 13: too much of it. He fell for it, and he's

877
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 13: got the money and he and Bezos are making it happen.

878
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 13: China is just as big on the dream quotit as

879
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 13: we are. So again you gotta maybe the nature of

880
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 13: the question you asked put them aside a bit. Just

881
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 13: remember where there we are. This is you know, the

882
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 13: Internet age where you can have an AI decide your

883
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 13: computer while you're at launch.

884
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: Well, so what's more likely here is as Elon Musk

885
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: visits China, what's more likely in your view a SpaceX

886
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: China partnership or a Russia China partnership in space?

887
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 13: Well, already China, if you look at their technology that

888
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 13: they've been flying, it is the Russian design done better.

889
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 13: Everything gets bigger, it's got nicer computers. Their space youof

890
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 13: even looked a lot like the Russians. But they're far

891
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 13: better at taking the technology and running with it than Russia.

892
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 6: Is.

893
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 13: Russia was very good at building you know, simple spacecraft

894
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 13: that always worked, didn't really do anything imaginative. China's imaginative.

895
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 13: As far as a partnership, if there's one with Russia,

896
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 13: Russia will be the junior partner. They don't have the funding.

897
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 13: They you know, what's going on in the world. As

898
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 13: far as SpaceX and China, that probably can't happen for

899
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 13: about five hundred reasons having to do with contracts here

900
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 13: in the US.

901
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 9: Got it, well, Elon Musk is in China.

902
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 11: Now.

903
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 9: I wonder if that's has come up at all or

904
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 9: if it's mostly a Tesla conversation. Key final question for you.

905
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 9: We were talking at the beginning of the segment, how

906
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 9: China wants boots on the moon by twenty thirty. The

907
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 9: US is targeting end of twenty twenty five. Are we

908
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 9: going to be the next to do it?

909
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 13: Well, you know, if you'd asked two weeks ago, before

910
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 13: this whole budget thing, I would have said, yeah, we'll

911
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 13: probably beat you by a couple of years. But seriously,

912
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 13: they NASA's going to suddenly have to go sit on

913
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 13: budgets that are scaled for a couple of years. Five

914
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 13: or six billion dollars isn't going to be in the cash, kiddy,

915
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 13: And they were already moving the twenty twenty five landing,

916
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 13: which was, like they said, December thirty first, twenty five,

917
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 13: they met twenty six, you know, and now you know,

918
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 13: you may see that pushback another year or so. And

919
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 13: again I don't think NASA is at the top of

920
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 13: what we yell about when it comes to budget. So

921
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 13: I would just say, you know, China may really give

922
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 13: us a run for our money. But I'll leave you

923
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 13: with this. Sometimes the competition is actually good as long

924
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 13: as you view it as healthy and that you're doing

925
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 13: it for other reasons than just being you know, competitive,

926
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 13: but being trying to lift the rising tide and all

927
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 13: that sort of thing. Hopefully that's where this will end up.

928
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: Just wait, wait for people to see a Chinese flag

929
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: on the moon, Chinese astronauts walking around there were Keith,

930
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: there will be nothing but money available.

931
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 13: Yeah, that might just be what's another split nick moment?

932
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: You said it, Thanks for coming back to talk to us,

933
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 2: Keith Cowing, editor at spaceref dot com.

934
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: We could use another spot nick moment.

935
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: The sound of that, Kayla, Yeah boy, all right, So

936
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: we'll let you know what's going on there. And of course,

937
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: when there is news coming from our Space Agency, particularly

938
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: with regard to the Artemis program. We always updated here

939
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: because we're obsessed with space on the sound Off. Thanks

940
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: for listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to

941
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere

942
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: else you get your podcasts, and you can find us

943
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: live every weekday from Washington, d C. At one pm

944
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.