1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Ludwig Gornsen is, without a doubt, one of the 2 00:00:23,196 --> 00:00:27,596 Speaker 1: most accomplished and distinctive film composers of the twenty first century. 3 00:00:28,276 --> 00:00:31,356 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, after having worked on Tenet together, acclaimed 4 00:00:31,396 --> 00:00:34,756 Speaker 1: director Christopher Nolan hired Gornson again to score what has 5 00:00:34,796 --> 00:00:40,516 Speaker 1: become one of the biggest movies of twenty twenty three. Oppenheimer. Ludwig, 6 00:00:40,516 --> 00:00:43,076 Speaker 1: who emigrated to Los Angeles from his native Sweden in 7 00:00:43,076 --> 00:00:45,956 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, has racked up dozens of writing, 8 00:00:46,076 --> 00:00:50,076 Speaker 1: producing and scoring credits. He started out working in TV 9 00:00:50,196 --> 00:00:53,196 Speaker 1: and oversaw music on hit shows like Community, New Girl, 10 00:00:53,316 --> 00:00:57,076 Speaker 1: and The Mandalorian. He eventually started scoring films with his 11 00:00:57,116 --> 00:01:01,196 Speaker 1: old college friend Ryan Kugler. Ludwig composed music for all 12 00:01:01,236 --> 00:01:05,076 Speaker 1: of Ryan's hit movies, including Fruitville Station, the Creed series, 13 00:01:05,156 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 1: and both Black Panther films, the first of which won 14 00:01:08,196 --> 00:01:11,636 Speaker 1: him the Academy Award for Best Original Score in twenty nineteen. 15 00:01:12,396 --> 00:01:15,396 Speaker 1: On today's episode, I talked to Ludvig Gorenson about his 16 00:01:15,516 --> 00:01:18,756 Speaker 1: incredible body of work as a composer and producer. He 17 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:21,836 Speaker 1: explains how his rigorous musical training in Sweden prepared him 18 00:01:21,876 --> 00:01:25,956 Speaker 1: to write the complex sections of Oppenheimer's score. Ludwig also 19 00:01:26,036 --> 00:01:28,316 Speaker 1: plays some of the more moving sections of the score 20 00:01:28,356 --> 00:01:30,196 Speaker 1: for us in an effort to show us how he 21 00:01:30,276 --> 00:01:33,156 Speaker 1: came up with one of the best soundtracks of the year. 22 00:01:36,116 --> 00:01:39,356 Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 23 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:45,996 Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Ludwig Gorensen. Congratulations, 24 00:01:46,076 --> 00:01:50,556 Speaker 1: I should say on the success of Oppenheimer, and also 25 00:01:50,716 --> 00:01:55,196 Speaker 1: like just the reception to the music has been. It's 26 00:01:55,236 --> 00:01:58,796 Speaker 1: been incredible. I'll say I always go into movies trying 27 00:01:58,836 --> 00:02:01,836 Speaker 1: to know nothing. So if I hear you know, Christopher 28 00:02:01,836 --> 00:02:03,916 Speaker 1: Nolan's been on a movie about Robert Oppenheimer and Robert 29 00:02:03,916 --> 00:02:07,636 Speaker 1: Downey juniors in Slen Murphy, I'm like, great, that's as 30 00:02:07,676 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 1: much as I want to know. And as it's going 31 00:02:09,676 --> 00:02:14,076 Speaker 1: through it this music is incredible. So as soon as 32 00:02:14,076 --> 00:02:15,436 Speaker 1: I got out, I went to pull it up so 33 00:02:15,436 --> 00:02:18,236 Speaker 1: I could listen to it on the drive home. I 34 00:02:18,236 --> 00:02:19,996 Speaker 1: had no idea it was you was doing the music. 35 00:02:20,116 --> 00:02:22,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so good man, Thank you. 36 00:02:22,716 --> 00:02:24,116 Speaker 1: When did the project come to you? 37 00:02:24,596 --> 00:02:28,036 Speaker 2: It came to me about right as Chris had finished 38 00:02:28,036 --> 00:02:30,516 Speaker 2: writing the script. And we have done a movie before 39 00:02:30,556 --> 00:02:34,276 Speaker 2: called Tenant Yeah, and that was an incredible experience. Obviously, 40 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:37,916 Speaker 2: I've been well aware of Chris movies and Chris films 41 00:02:37,956 --> 00:02:41,556 Speaker 2: and the music, the way he uses music in his 42 00:02:41,556 --> 00:02:46,276 Speaker 2: storytelling and incredible scores by Hans Zimmer and David Julien 43 00:02:46,436 --> 00:02:50,756 Speaker 2: and the things that they did on Batman, and he 44 00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:56,876 Speaker 2: had a huge influence and I think every film composer's life. 45 00:02:56,916 --> 00:02:58,956 Speaker 2: And it also transcendent just film Goble was it was, 46 00:02:59,036 --> 00:03:01,996 Speaker 2: It became kind of a it changed films I think, 47 00:03:02,716 --> 00:03:03,716 Speaker 2: and the sound of film. 48 00:03:03,876 --> 00:03:05,836 Speaker 1: What did you notice about it before you started working 49 00:03:05,836 --> 00:03:07,436 Speaker 1: with them? What had you noticed about it? 50 00:03:07,916 --> 00:03:10,316 Speaker 2: Well, how much front center the music is in his 51 00:03:10,396 --> 00:03:14,036 Speaker 2: films and how much they're driving the story and how 52 00:03:14,396 --> 00:03:18,276 Speaker 2: important it is to the energy into the tempo and 53 00:03:18,316 --> 00:03:22,196 Speaker 2: the feel of his films. And it's like its own character. 54 00:03:22,716 --> 00:03:25,596 Speaker 2: And that's something you know when you're getting started in 55 00:03:26,076 --> 00:03:28,876 Speaker 2: this career trying to write music for a film. You know, 56 00:03:28,996 --> 00:03:31,476 Speaker 2: you go to the theater and it's not every time 57 00:03:31,516 --> 00:03:33,076 Speaker 2: you go see a movie and you really and you 58 00:03:33,116 --> 00:03:36,316 Speaker 2: can really hear the music. Yeah, you know, and I 59 00:03:36,356 --> 00:03:39,396 Speaker 2: think for with Chris films, that's you go to see 60 00:03:39,396 --> 00:03:41,396 Speaker 2: his films and it's it's a real experience. 61 00:03:41,596 --> 00:03:43,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, It's like, it's not often 62 00:03:43,636 --> 00:03:46,516 Speaker 1: you go to the movies and you feel like the 63 00:03:46,636 --> 00:03:49,516 Speaker 1: score is so prominent. Like if the music is prominent, 64 00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:52,596 Speaker 1: it's often a needle drop, and that feels like the song, 65 00:03:53,396 --> 00:03:56,036 Speaker 1: you know, the NWA song or the one Stone song 66 00:03:56,076 --> 00:03:58,596 Speaker 1: that you're hearing that you already have an emotional attachment 67 00:03:58,636 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 1: to that becomes a character in the movie. But it's 68 00:04:01,316 --> 00:04:05,076 Speaker 1: it is very rare in modern cinema to feel so 69 00:04:05,316 --> 00:04:07,796 Speaker 1: attached to film music as much as you do when 70 00:04:07,796 --> 00:04:11,156 Speaker 1: you go to see a Christopher Nolan movie. How conscious 71 00:04:11,196 --> 00:04:14,196 Speaker 1: are you of that while you're writing the score for 72 00:04:14,276 --> 00:04:16,236 Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan movie. 73 00:04:15,956 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about when I'm in the moment and 74 00:04:18,996 --> 00:04:22,556 Speaker 2: writing the music, I am thinking about the vision of 75 00:04:22,596 --> 00:04:26,356 Speaker 2: the director. What is she or she imagining? What's the 76 00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:28,036 Speaker 2: things that I can't see in the script? What are 77 00:04:28,076 --> 00:04:30,156 Speaker 2: the things that I can't see when I see the 78 00:04:30,156 --> 00:04:34,596 Speaker 2: film for the first time? And sometimes I even want 79 00:04:34,756 --> 00:04:36,876 Speaker 2: the director to talk to me like I'm like I'm 80 00:04:36,916 --> 00:04:40,276 Speaker 2: an actor, or tell me as much as possible about 81 00:04:40,356 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 2: this film, having as many conversations about the script and 82 00:04:45,076 --> 00:04:47,556 Speaker 2: as much input as I can get about what their 83 00:04:47,916 --> 00:04:49,956 Speaker 2: vision is the more helpful it's going to be for 84 00:04:49,996 --> 00:04:52,356 Speaker 2: me to create the world of music and the sound 85 00:04:52,396 --> 00:04:53,796 Speaker 2: world for the film. 86 00:04:53,996 --> 00:04:57,516 Speaker 1: So when Christopher Nolan reached out with the Oppenheimer script, 87 00:04:57,716 --> 00:04:59,116 Speaker 1: you know what was a message to you? 88 00:04:59,796 --> 00:05:02,156 Speaker 2: Well, first I he didn't say anything, so I didn't 89 00:05:02,156 --> 00:05:03,716 Speaker 2: even know what it was about when I sat down 90 00:05:03,716 --> 00:05:04,156 Speaker 2: to read it. 91 00:05:04,356 --> 00:05:04,956 Speaker 1: Just gave it to you. 92 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:08,476 Speaker 2: No, No, I go to his office and read it, 93 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:10,236 Speaker 2: because they don't give. 94 00:05:10,076 --> 00:05:12,476 Speaker 1: Out the scripts, no clue at all. 95 00:05:12,636 --> 00:05:16,236 Speaker 2: No, So I go there. I'm obviously super excited, and 96 00:05:16,276 --> 00:05:18,836 Speaker 2: I sit down in the room and I'm in it 97 00:05:18,836 --> 00:05:20,996 Speaker 2: for a three hour, three and a half hour journey. 98 00:05:21,796 --> 00:05:24,396 Speaker 2: It was extremely exhilarating. I remember reading the script for 99 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,756 Speaker 2: the first time. It was so capturing just just being 100 00:05:28,076 --> 00:05:31,756 Speaker 2: in his life, like seeing the world through his eyes 101 00:05:31,836 --> 00:05:34,756 Speaker 2: and feeling what he was feeling in those moments. Like 102 00:05:34,796 --> 00:05:37,876 Speaker 2: everything was written from the first person perspective. So it 103 00:05:37,916 --> 00:05:40,876 Speaker 2: was an incredible emotional experience reading it for the first time. 104 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:43,276 Speaker 1: Well, at what point do you start allowing yourself to 105 00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:45,636 Speaker 1: think about music in relation to the script as you're 106 00:05:45,636 --> 00:05:45,996 Speaker 1: reading that. 107 00:05:46,516 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 2: Well, I'm starting immediately thinking about the possibilities and where 108 00:05:52,076 --> 00:05:55,756 Speaker 2: to go and I also know that obviously, this is 109 00:05:55,756 --> 00:05:58,076 Speaker 2: my second film with Chris, so I know that he's 110 00:05:58,116 --> 00:06:01,756 Speaker 2: open for any ideas. And then shortly after I'd read 111 00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:04,276 Speaker 2: the script, we have a conversation and the only direction 112 00:06:04,396 --> 00:06:07,516 Speaker 2: he gave me was that he was interested in He 113 00:06:07,596 --> 00:06:09,996 Speaker 2: was very interested in seeing how we kid have the 114 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:14,956 Speaker 2: violin portray the personality of Oppenheimer. 115 00:06:15,716 --> 00:06:17,796 Speaker 1: Interesting, so what do you do with that? 116 00:06:18,276 --> 00:06:23,036 Speaker 2: So and also Chris knows that my wife's Serena Gornson, 117 00:06:23,316 --> 00:06:28,436 Speaker 2: is an very accomplished violinist, and we're fortunate that he 118 00:06:28,556 --> 00:06:32,036 Speaker 2: wanted to take that route because that comes very handy 119 00:06:32,276 --> 00:06:36,436 Speaker 2: would have a wife that's also violinists. And we were 120 00:06:36,436 --> 00:06:39,916 Speaker 2: able to experiment long hours in the studio with things 121 00:06:39,916 --> 00:06:43,356 Speaker 2: that kind of, after a while, drive me, drive both 122 00:06:43,356 --> 00:06:46,876 Speaker 2: of us a little crazy, just kind of try to 123 00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:51,156 Speaker 2: make the violent sound in ways that I haven't heard before, 124 00:06:51,236 --> 00:06:54,156 Speaker 2: and trying to manipulate it with audio and sound effects 125 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:57,596 Speaker 2: and turning it around. And but a lot of the 126 00:06:57,636 --> 00:07:00,676 Speaker 2: experimentation also came from the conversations I had with Chris 127 00:07:00,716 --> 00:07:04,396 Speaker 2: in terms of how we can go from You know, 128 00:07:04,476 --> 00:07:08,676 Speaker 2: Oppenheimer's is very neurotic, but there's also scenes where he's 129 00:07:09,196 --> 00:07:13,436 Speaker 2: probably you know, confident, and we wanted to go for 130 00:07:13,596 --> 00:07:18,236 Speaker 2: something at times very beautiful and confident to something completely 131 00:07:18,276 --> 00:07:22,516 Speaker 2: neurotic and horrifying. And how can we go between those 132 00:07:22,516 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 2: feelings with the split of a second on the violin, 133 00:07:24,916 --> 00:07:28,116 Speaker 2: with with just the performance of a vibrato or doing 134 00:07:28,116 --> 00:07:30,036 Speaker 2: a microtonal glissando up and down. 135 00:07:30,076 --> 00:07:32,716 Speaker 1: You know. On first viewing, one of the things that 136 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:36,276 Speaker 1: struck me was the decision that I loved for essentially 137 00:07:36,596 --> 00:07:39,356 Speaker 1: the climax of the movie, which is the testing and 138 00:07:39,636 --> 00:07:45,396 Speaker 1: trinity for just to go silent? Yeah blank, Yeah, was 139 00:07:45,396 --> 00:07:47,196 Speaker 1: that in the script from the beginning? 140 00:07:47,436 --> 00:07:49,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's that's what's you know, so many things 141 00:07:50,196 --> 00:07:52,396 Speaker 2: or in the script, Like I felt when I watched 142 00:07:52,636 --> 00:07:54,796 Speaker 2: when we finished a movie, and it was like it 143 00:07:54,836 --> 00:07:56,796 Speaker 2: was almost like reading the script again, and it's it's 144 00:07:57,316 --> 00:08:00,076 Speaker 2: the footstumps are in the script, the pause of silence 145 00:08:00,076 --> 00:08:04,076 Speaker 2: in the script. Everything. I feel like he has probably 146 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:06,796 Speaker 2: tempo and music in his mind while he's while he's 147 00:08:06,836 --> 00:08:08,116 Speaker 2: writing these movies. 148 00:08:08,476 --> 00:08:11,076 Speaker 1: So there was a island the first explorations. 149 00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:14,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the violin, I was we were recording long 150 00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:18,676 Speaker 2: hours here in my studio and I was doing half 151 00:08:18,956 --> 00:08:22,116 Speaker 2: like very long kind of glissandos trying to make sounds 152 00:08:22,116 --> 00:08:25,516 Speaker 2: like almost like air raid sirens. But after a while 153 00:08:25,756 --> 00:08:29,996 Speaker 2: I knew that the most important thing to get right 154 00:08:30,036 --> 00:08:33,316 Speaker 2: from the beginning was the emotional core of the story. 155 00:08:34,596 --> 00:08:37,196 Speaker 2: And it gets easy sometimes when you start working on 156 00:08:37,236 --> 00:08:40,196 Speaker 2: a project and you start just messing around with production 157 00:08:40,436 --> 00:08:43,516 Speaker 2: and sounds, and like you're trying to you can hide 158 00:08:43,676 --> 00:08:47,716 Speaker 2: things behind cool sounds or a bit behind effects and sounds. 159 00:08:47,716 --> 00:08:49,676 Speaker 2: And I feel like you tend to do a lot 160 00:08:49,676 --> 00:08:52,476 Speaker 2: of that when you write on the computer, because you 161 00:08:52,596 --> 00:08:56,116 Speaker 2: use technology and and the way you see music on 162 00:08:56,156 --> 00:09:02,236 Speaker 2: the computer is very horizontal and vertically. So for me 163 00:09:02,516 --> 00:09:06,276 Speaker 2: it was important to get the emotional core right, and 164 00:09:07,436 --> 00:09:10,316 Speaker 2: lately it's mostly the last couple of years, I feel 165 00:09:10,316 --> 00:09:15,236 Speaker 2: like stepping away from the computers is helping me with 166 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:16,796 Speaker 2: feeling more creative. 167 00:09:17,356 --> 00:09:20,796 Speaker 1: Will you ever just sit down with some staff paper? 168 00:09:21,716 --> 00:09:25,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean sitting by the piano writing with staff paper, 169 00:09:25,476 --> 00:09:28,516 Speaker 2: or sitting by the roads, or picking up the guitar 170 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 2: or whatever. I mean. I'm not an expert in all instruments, 171 00:09:33,436 --> 00:09:38,596 Speaker 2: but I can cheat on a few. So a lot 172 00:09:38,636 --> 00:09:44,756 Speaker 2: of these themes were actually wrote on the piano, and 173 00:09:44,796 --> 00:09:47,956 Speaker 2: I remember the specific Openheimer theme came about after we 174 00:09:48,076 --> 00:09:52,156 Speaker 2: recorded eight like hours of like a Raid Sirens and 175 00:09:52,196 --> 00:09:56,596 Speaker 2: we were kind of going crazy and I just sat 176 00:09:56,636 --> 00:10:01,356 Speaker 2: down the piano and just played this bass melody, super 177 00:10:01,396 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 2: simple bassline, doude doo do. 178 00:10:06,876 --> 00:10:11,076 Speaker 1: Do you mind showing me? Yeah, that's Mike, Yes, yes, 179 00:10:11,156 --> 00:10:17,716 Speaker 1: sir like this. M m mm hm. 180 00:10:20,076 --> 00:10:20,436 Speaker 2: M h. 181 00:10:25,516 --> 00:10:29,236 Speaker 3: I put that in like low cellos, low base and 182 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,916 Speaker 3: cellos in a slow temple m. 183 00:10:35,556 --> 00:10:40,676 Speaker 1: M added this melody. 184 00:10:43,116 --> 00:10:45,836 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, mm hm m hm. 185 00:10:47,556 --> 00:10:47,956 Speaker 1: M m. 186 00:10:51,556 --> 00:10:59,756 Speaker 2: M m m m hm, m mm hmmm m m 187 00:11:03,356 --> 00:11:03,716 Speaker 2: m m. 188 00:11:06,876 --> 00:11:42,196 Speaker 1: M m hmmm. Account it's really stunning. 189 00:11:43,036 --> 00:11:45,636 Speaker 2: And then right after I wrote that on the piano, 190 00:11:46,676 --> 00:11:49,996 Speaker 2: I asked Herina to play it, and the way she 191 00:11:50,116 --> 00:11:55,116 Speaker 2: performed it was just like it's incredible, beautiful, intimate performance 192 00:11:56,036 --> 00:12:01,436 Speaker 2: with its almost no vibrato, like very fragile, was was perfect. 193 00:12:02,236 --> 00:12:04,796 Speaker 2: And I sent that to Chris and then he called 194 00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:06,996 Speaker 2: me back like twenty minutes later, and it's like, this 195 00:12:07,236 --> 00:12:08,876 Speaker 2: is it, you know, this open Emerus theme? 196 00:12:09,236 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 1: Wow? And did you think of it as a theme 197 00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:13,836 Speaker 1: or you just think of it as Yeah? 198 00:12:14,476 --> 00:12:15,396 Speaker 2: I thought I knew it. 199 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:18,556 Speaker 1: It was kind of special, you know, that's amazing. Yeah, 200 00:12:18,996 --> 00:12:20,876 Speaker 1: And did you at this point, again, you don't have 201 00:12:21,156 --> 00:12:23,316 Speaker 1: that you've read the script? Did you have it yet? 202 00:12:23,676 --> 00:12:25,596 Speaker 2: I read the script and I had in my head, 203 00:12:25,996 --> 00:12:29,276 Speaker 2: but no at home, nothing to reference how they get 204 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:32,396 Speaker 2: back and they hadn't shot the film. But something that's 205 00:12:32,436 --> 00:12:36,596 Speaker 2: really cool that that Crystalan does is he brings people 206 00:12:36,676 --> 00:12:38,756 Speaker 2: in very early. He brings me in very early in 207 00:12:38,796 --> 00:12:42,236 Speaker 2: the process. So while he's having tests, you know, with 208 00:12:42,636 --> 00:12:46,996 Speaker 2: visual effects and with also costume tests, and he invites 209 00:12:47,036 --> 00:12:49,076 Speaker 2: me in to see the screenings of those tests at 210 00:12:49,276 --> 00:12:52,596 Speaker 2: Imax Theater, and I'm sitting there and I mixed theater, 211 00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:57,356 Speaker 2: you know, watching these incredible visual effects spot that he 212 00:12:57,476 --> 00:13:01,996 Speaker 2: worked on with Andrew Jackson and some incredible experiments that 213 00:13:02,636 --> 00:13:05,916 Speaker 2: I remember at the time, I felt almost like I 214 00:13:05,996 --> 00:13:08,956 Speaker 2: was dreaming when I was sitting in that room. It's black, 215 00:13:09,476 --> 00:13:13,396 Speaker 2: dark theater and seeing these kind of fluorescent lights like 216 00:13:13,516 --> 00:13:16,196 Speaker 2: swirling around you, spinning faster and faster and faster, and 217 00:13:16,276 --> 00:13:19,316 Speaker 2: then it's cutting into icy fire coming out and it's 218 00:13:19,356 --> 00:13:22,756 Speaker 2: like just feel very lucky to like, you know, go 219 00:13:22,876 --> 00:13:24,636 Speaker 2: on on a Monday morning is like watch this in 220 00:13:24,716 --> 00:13:26,356 Speaker 2: the theater and then then come out of there as 221 00:13:26,396 --> 00:13:30,156 Speaker 2: like a tremendous inspiration to like, some of the things 222 00:13:30,196 --> 00:13:33,156 Speaker 2: that I saw really inspired me to help me to 223 00:13:33,516 --> 00:13:35,956 Speaker 2: realize what I wanted the music to sound like, Like 224 00:13:36,036 --> 00:13:39,196 Speaker 2: that sense of energy that I saw on screen. 225 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:43,516 Speaker 1: It's incredible that he had essentially already had the theme 226 00:13:43,716 --> 00:13:46,516 Speaker 1: locked in before shooting. Like that gives it almost like 227 00:13:46,796 --> 00:13:48,756 Speaker 1: I mean, as you say, it's all there in the script, 228 00:13:49,316 --> 00:13:52,116 Speaker 1: but music does add an extra emotional element. I must 229 00:13:52,156 --> 00:13:55,236 Speaker 1: I'm sure that must have helped to some degree the 230 00:13:56,116 --> 00:13:59,476 Speaker 1: emotional contents of what was on Yeah on camera. 231 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:02,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I it maybe it wasn't as black and 232 00:14:02,836 --> 00:14:04,516 Speaker 2: white where like it was like this is his theme. 233 00:14:04,596 --> 00:14:06,356 Speaker 2: But like I think we both I think we both 234 00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:08,516 Speaker 2: knew that it was special because we don't want to 235 00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:11,396 Speaker 2: jinx anything you don't want to like because you know, 236 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:13,876 Speaker 2: you never really know if it's gonna work until you 237 00:14:13,956 --> 00:14:17,196 Speaker 2: actually sit down with and laid in with the edit, 238 00:14:17,316 --> 00:14:20,116 Speaker 2: and that's when you really can. But but I feel like, 239 00:14:20,236 --> 00:14:22,276 Speaker 2: I mean, I've done two films with Chris and and 240 00:14:22,396 --> 00:14:25,316 Speaker 2: so far we've been pretty good at trajectoring the sound 241 00:14:25,396 --> 00:14:27,956 Speaker 2: and the feeling of the of the music before. 242 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,796 Speaker 1: Do you think about it thematically? I mean, because there's 243 00:14:30,836 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 1: two things happening here. There's like there's really kind of 244 00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:38,196 Speaker 1: quiet personal story and then it's almost like the second 245 00:14:38,396 --> 00:14:41,836 Speaker 1: the co star is nuclear bomb, you know, or a 246 00:14:41,876 --> 00:14:45,116 Speaker 1: top bomb, which is insane, Like how do you balance 247 00:14:45,236 --> 00:14:46,116 Speaker 1: those two things? 248 00:14:46,756 --> 00:14:50,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was It was very Uh, it was 249 00:14:50,196 --> 00:14:53,276 Speaker 2: a really tough movie to to write the music for, 250 00:14:54,476 --> 00:15:00,076 Speaker 2: especially because it is as such a personal journey the 251 00:15:00,676 --> 00:15:04,316 Speaker 2: feelings that you need to put the audience inside of him, 252 00:15:04,756 --> 00:15:06,876 Speaker 2: Like the audience shouldn't sit in the theater judging him. 253 00:15:07,356 --> 00:15:09,996 Speaker 2: There should be there on his journey, feel what he feels. 254 00:15:11,116 --> 00:15:13,196 Speaker 2: And that's so that's what that's what the music needs 255 00:15:13,236 --> 00:15:14,996 Speaker 2: to do. And the only way to do that is 256 00:15:15,116 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 2: kind of to put I need to put myself into 257 00:15:17,316 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 2: shoes too. And some of it is some of those 258 00:15:22,556 --> 00:15:26,916 Speaker 2: feeling like sadness and loneliness and emptiness and like kind 259 00:15:26,956 --> 00:15:30,396 Speaker 2: of have the searching for something how to kind of 260 00:15:30,436 --> 00:15:32,596 Speaker 2: how the movie stars and how the music starts. That 261 00:15:32,756 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 2: was a little easier for me to kind of navigate 262 00:15:35,156 --> 00:15:38,196 Speaker 2: through and being able to I've been in some of 263 00:15:38,236 --> 00:15:41,036 Speaker 2: those emotional states before. But yeah, and then there's the 264 00:15:41,196 --> 00:15:44,076 Speaker 2: there's that scene of like inspiration when he's going through 265 00:15:44,156 --> 00:15:47,196 Speaker 2: he sees a picauso painting on the wall and you 266 00:15:47,316 --> 00:15:50,836 Speaker 2: see that, you see because of painting on imax screen insane. 267 00:15:51,596 --> 00:15:55,596 Speaker 2: It really had a big effect on me. And then 268 00:15:55,676 --> 00:15:58,116 Speaker 2: he sees in bed and he sees this atom swirling 269 00:15:58,156 --> 00:16:00,836 Speaker 2: around and around, like it moves faster and faster, and 270 00:16:01,556 --> 00:16:07,436 Speaker 2: like writing that kind of exhilarating music is so fun 271 00:16:07,716 --> 00:16:12,556 Speaker 2: and also at times mathematically challenging for me. And it 272 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 2: was really interesting how I had to like combine the 273 00:16:15,956 --> 00:16:20,516 Speaker 2: emotional but also with the theory, which is also kind 274 00:16:20,556 --> 00:16:24,516 Speaker 2: of part of my background and education, and how how 275 00:16:24,596 --> 00:16:27,356 Speaker 2: you can use theory and what is the theory only 276 00:16:27,396 --> 00:16:30,396 Speaker 2: takes it so far, But then there's also these more 277 00:16:30,516 --> 00:16:35,876 Speaker 2: complicated emotions and feelings, like when when he's done the 278 00:16:35,956 --> 00:16:39,796 Speaker 2: first trinity test and he's about to have his congratulatory 279 00:16:39,836 --> 00:16:41,956 Speaker 2: speech to his team and to his you know, to 280 00:16:42,036 --> 00:16:45,556 Speaker 2: all the scientists, and he's having a panic attack. 281 00:16:45,676 --> 00:16:47,396 Speaker 1: One of the most striking things I've seen in a 282 00:16:47,476 --> 00:16:47,876 Speaker 1: long time. 283 00:16:48,036 --> 00:16:52,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was just that it's so complex, and 284 00:16:52,836 --> 00:16:57,836 Speaker 2: it's so that visceral and cathartic that experience. I mean, 285 00:16:57,956 --> 00:17:00,476 Speaker 2: they had that even reading the script, and that was 286 00:17:00,516 --> 00:17:04,476 Speaker 2: so hard to imagine. So that that That was the 287 00:17:04,596 --> 00:17:06,356 Speaker 2: last piece of the puzzle that I that we did 288 00:17:06,436 --> 00:17:06,916 Speaker 2: on the movie. 289 00:17:07,196 --> 00:17:09,836 Speaker 1: That score you left it for the end or you know, 290 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:10,796 Speaker 1: we're trying. 291 00:17:10,636 --> 00:17:12,396 Speaker 2: Over and over and over again. It wasn't until the 292 00:17:12,516 --> 00:17:16,036 Speaker 2: last day of the dub when resolved that piece of music. 293 00:17:16,156 --> 00:17:16,956 Speaker 1: How did it change? 294 00:17:17,356 --> 00:17:20,916 Speaker 2: I tied it into another an earlier feeling and earlier 295 00:17:20,956 --> 00:17:24,036 Speaker 2: emotion and earlier scene in the movie, which is the 296 00:17:24,116 --> 00:17:26,916 Speaker 2: scene when he goes to those almost for the first time, 297 00:17:26,956 --> 00:17:30,116 Speaker 2: and then he's he's watching these stars. He's watching these 298 00:17:30,156 --> 00:17:33,196 Speaker 2: stars getting swallowed of a black hole, and he's talking 299 00:17:33,196 --> 00:17:35,716 Speaker 2: about what if I could, you know, be here lost 300 00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:38,156 Speaker 2: almost and do things all the most and work, you know, 301 00:17:38,276 --> 00:17:43,716 Speaker 2: work at combine my passion with science. And this first 302 00:17:43,756 --> 00:17:46,716 Speaker 2: time I'm kind of using these synthesizers that it kind 303 00:17:46,716 --> 00:17:49,676 Speaker 2: of feels like the impending doom and the synthesizers just 304 00:17:49,796 --> 00:17:52,516 Speaker 2: kind of pulling you downwards in like a downward spiral. 305 00:17:53,476 --> 00:17:56,276 Speaker 2: And I don't know how I could have thought about it. 306 00:17:56,356 --> 00:17:58,436 Speaker 2: I was like, what if we take that feeling and 307 00:17:58,476 --> 00:18:02,636 Speaker 2: that emotion and put it in this scene again and 308 00:18:03,236 --> 00:18:04,196 Speaker 2: it worked. 309 00:18:04,516 --> 00:18:06,196 Speaker 1: You were trying something completely new. 310 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:09,476 Speaker 2: Something that just had like horror elements, like something I 311 00:18:09,596 --> 00:18:12,156 Speaker 2: was just I was going with that feeling of like 312 00:18:12,716 --> 00:18:16,596 Speaker 2: horror and shocking, but it wasn't until it got that 313 00:18:16,836 --> 00:18:19,716 Speaker 2: kind of emotional depth to it that it started really 314 00:18:19,836 --> 00:18:22,916 Speaker 2: started to feel real. I also don't want to make 315 00:18:22,956 --> 00:18:24,476 Speaker 2: it seem like the music had a big part of 316 00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:25,476 Speaker 2: that scene, but you don't want to. 317 00:18:25,996 --> 00:18:28,356 Speaker 1: But like the job you have that is very hard 318 00:18:29,316 --> 00:18:31,996 Speaker 1: is you don't want to put too much of a 319 00:18:32,076 --> 00:18:33,516 Speaker 1: mark on it, but you also don't want to fuck 320 00:18:33,636 --> 00:18:37,196 Speaker 1: up what's on the screen, and you can undercut the moments. 321 00:18:37,396 --> 00:18:40,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's it's like it's one of the best 322 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:44,876 Speaker 2: I think moments of cinema of all time, that scene. Yeah, 323 00:18:45,236 --> 00:18:48,036 Speaker 2: and that emotion. How may I never felt like that 324 00:18:48,156 --> 00:18:49,116 Speaker 2: before seeing a film. 325 00:18:50,276 --> 00:18:52,116 Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break, then we'll come 326 00:18:52,196 --> 00:18:59,796 Speaker 1: back with more of a conversation with Ludwig Gorensen. We're 327 00:18:59,876 --> 00:19:04,956 Speaker 1: back with more from Ludwig Gornsen. Earlier, you said mathematically 328 00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,196 Speaker 1: I think the phrase you use is mathematically complex or 329 00:19:08,636 --> 00:19:10,596 Speaker 1: what did you mean by that? The score was. 330 00:19:11,636 --> 00:19:16,116 Speaker 2: There's some parts in the score where I've was able 331 00:19:16,236 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 2: to get ideas out with music that I haven't been 332 00:19:19,756 --> 00:19:23,716 Speaker 2: able to achieve before. With that, I'm describing those scenes 333 00:19:23,796 --> 00:19:26,596 Speaker 2: where you feel like there's a constant temple change, like 334 00:19:26,636 --> 00:19:29,396 Speaker 2: everything's getting faster and faster and faster, And I was 335 00:19:29,436 --> 00:19:32,476 Speaker 2: trying to channel the feelings of the energy of constantly 336 00:19:32,596 --> 00:19:36,556 Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries of energy forward, like the spinning atoms. 337 00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:42,196 Speaker 2: And the way that I achieved that was through math, 338 00:19:43,236 --> 00:19:47,196 Speaker 2: with having constant temple changes in a way where it 339 00:19:47,236 --> 00:19:49,756 Speaker 2: didn't make musically sense. So in a way you can 340 00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,796 Speaker 2: kind of only do it on the computer. It's twenty 341 00:19:52,836 --> 00:19:56,116 Speaker 2: one temple changes and this piece of music. But what 342 00:19:56,396 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 2: made it human was we had it did it all 343 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:02,636 Speaker 2: with the live string ensemble recorded that all those temple 344 00:20:02,756 --> 00:20:07,756 Speaker 2: changes live in one continuous performance. But that was a 345 00:20:08,316 --> 00:20:10,436 Speaker 2: lot thanks to anthem to the computer that I was 346 00:20:10,476 --> 00:20:14,036 Speaker 2: able to do this kind of interesting tempo changes with 347 00:20:14,156 --> 00:20:18,836 Speaker 2: this hexotonic string pattern. That's a six note scale that 348 00:20:18,916 --> 00:20:21,356 Speaker 2: I was working with at the time, and that six 349 00:20:21,436 --> 00:20:23,956 Speaker 2: out scale is something that I had in my two 350 00:20:23,996 --> 00:20:25,196 Speaker 2: books from from college. 351 00:20:25,516 --> 00:20:28,116 Speaker 1: Did you mind showing us what a hexotonic maybe? Yeah, 352 00:20:28,316 --> 00:20:30,636 Speaker 1: what a hexatonic scale is, and maybe how that translated 353 00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:31,596 Speaker 1: to some degree to work. 354 00:20:31,676 --> 00:20:35,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically, hexatonic scale is a six note scale, 355 00:20:36,116 --> 00:20:39,116 Speaker 2: and you can make a six note scale from two 356 00:20:39,236 --> 00:20:41,996 Speaker 2: courts that doesn't have any similar notes with each other. 357 00:20:42,276 --> 00:20:45,076 Speaker 2: So two courts that doesn't have any of the same 358 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,396 Speaker 2: notes with each other, is like a B minor. 359 00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:53,956 Speaker 3: And a C major. Yeah, so that that makes this scale. 360 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:04,396 Speaker 1: So and. 361 00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 3: So and out of these six notes you can make patterns. 362 00:21:11,676 --> 00:21:11,796 Speaker 1: Right. 363 00:21:31,076 --> 00:21:32,196 Speaker 3: So that's just that's just. 364 00:21:32,276 --> 00:21:35,916 Speaker 1: A basic and that's that's combining a B minor scale 365 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:37,196 Speaker 1: with the C major. 366 00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:43,276 Speaker 3: Scale B minor chord, the B minor chord is and 367 00:21:43,396 --> 00:21:48,036 Speaker 3: then the C major cord is. That's that's six notes. 368 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:50,156 Speaker 1: So are patiating both of those. 369 00:21:50,956 --> 00:21:54,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm starting with the B minor major and 370 00:21:54,676 --> 00:21:56,876 Speaker 2: then I'm doing the B minor again. By starting by 371 00:21:56,996 --> 00:22:00,436 Speaker 2: starting the third on the on the minor third and 372 00:22:00,516 --> 00:22:07,876 Speaker 2: then the major third of the C major, you can 373 00:22:07,916 --> 00:22:13,356 Speaker 2: make a thousand different different patterns within within these six mills, 374 00:22:13,556 --> 00:22:13,956 Speaker 2: you know, like. 375 00:22:23,236 --> 00:22:23,396 Speaker 3: You know. 376 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:26,836 Speaker 2: So one of the patterns that ended up making for 377 00:22:26,956 --> 00:22:58,596 Speaker 2: this movie is this. That's that's the extonic. 378 00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:01,996 Speaker 1: Why do you think the hexatonic scale came to you 379 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:06,236 Speaker 1: as a as a tool for for for this? 380 00:23:07,516 --> 00:23:11,516 Speaker 2: I think a lot of music ideas come to me, 381 00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:15,236 Speaker 2: and I think to creative people I think I think 382 00:23:15,276 --> 00:23:17,316 Speaker 2: you get a lot of ideas in general to anyone 383 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,996 Speaker 2: from from like your childhood, or from like the times 384 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:22,716 Speaker 2: when he felt like sense of inspiration, or and I 385 00:23:22,756 --> 00:23:25,436 Speaker 2: think maybe seeing the scene when he's he is, I 386 00:23:25,476 --> 00:23:28,396 Speaker 2: feel like he's in he's in college somewhere studying, and 387 00:23:28,636 --> 00:23:31,116 Speaker 2: he sees things for the first time. It's because of painting. 388 00:23:31,196 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 2: He sees he's thrown grass at the wall, a glass 389 00:23:33,796 --> 00:23:35,836 Speaker 2: at the wall, he's listening to right a spring, He's 390 00:23:36,156 --> 00:23:38,276 Speaker 2: he's like discovering all these things for the first. 391 00:23:38,076 --> 00:23:39,876 Speaker 1: Time, those early scenes in the film. 392 00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:43,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, And and I was maybe that made me think 393 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:46,116 Speaker 2: about when I discovered things for the first time where 394 00:23:46,116 --> 00:23:47,636 Speaker 2: and when I was in college and I was playing 395 00:23:47,716 --> 00:23:50,676 Speaker 2: these types of skills, and I was, you know, playing 396 00:23:50,716 --> 00:23:52,356 Speaker 2: with my starting a band for the first time, my 397 00:23:52,396 --> 00:23:57,356 Speaker 2: first jazz quintet. And I mean, I honestly can't remember 398 00:23:57,556 --> 00:23:59,636 Speaker 2: exactly what it is, but I think a lot of 399 00:23:59,716 --> 00:24:03,716 Speaker 2: times you look at yourself and you draw from those 400 00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:06,916 Speaker 2: moments that that had such an impact on those first 401 00:24:06,956 --> 00:24:09,036 Speaker 2: time memories. You know, your you know, your first kid. 402 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:11,636 Speaker 2: You know you don't you don't remember how it feels, 403 00:24:11,676 --> 00:24:15,956 Speaker 2: but it's it's deeply rooted inside of you somewhere. 404 00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:20,636 Speaker 1: An emotional memory or necessity, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And 405 00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:25,596 Speaker 1: there is something about that that is a little fractured sounding. 406 00:24:25,716 --> 00:24:28,556 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, and it sounds it's yeah, it 407 00:24:28,676 --> 00:24:32,236 Speaker 2: almost sounds like you scale you're practicing on something and 408 00:24:32,316 --> 00:24:35,396 Speaker 2: then and then but then I maybe I wanted to 409 00:24:35,516 --> 00:24:37,636 Speaker 2: make it feel like you're like really mastering it, and 410 00:24:38,156 --> 00:24:38,996 Speaker 2: you know how he then. 411 00:24:39,156 --> 00:24:42,596 Speaker 1: Drilling it mastering it. Yeah. I love It's so funny. 412 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 1: It's really like feels like three different films in a 413 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:47,716 Speaker 1: weird way to me. You know, I could really enjoy 414 00:24:48,356 --> 00:24:50,956 Speaker 1: any of the acts on their own, isolated, you know, 415 00:24:51,276 --> 00:24:54,676 Speaker 1: the first acts a great movie. Yeah, second act. I 416 00:24:54,716 --> 00:24:57,996 Speaker 1: mean just that the Trinity stuff is out of out 417 00:24:58,036 --> 00:25:01,076 Speaker 1: of how did you start processing the Trinity stuff from 418 00:25:01,116 --> 00:25:05,396 Speaker 1: a composition standpoint versus the early stuff with the Trinity. 419 00:25:05,196 --> 00:25:09,236 Speaker 2: Stuff is up until that point when the when they 420 00:25:09,276 --> 00:25:12,996 Speaker 2: start preparing for the Trinity Test, everything's been scribbles on 421 00:25:13,156 --> 00:25:17,476 Speaker 2: the note pad or you know, or theories or you know, conversations, 422 00:25:17,636 --> 00:25:20,476 Speaker 2: and when you see the bomb for the first time, 423 00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:24,876 Speaker 2: the actual bomb, the physical thing, it's like I wanted 424 00:25:24,876 --> 00:25:29,436 Speaker 2: the music to change character there, so I kind of 425 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:32,956 Speaker 2: threw all the organic elements on the side and just 426 00:25:33,276 --> 00:25:35,116 Speaker 2: changed the tone of the music a little bit and 427 00:25:35,276 --> 00:25:40,996 Speaker 2: had focused more on sound design and used like three elements, 428 00:25:41,396 --> 00:25:44,356 Speaker 2: which is one of them being like this throbbing bass, 429 00:25:44,476 --> 00:25:47,516 Speaker 2: this stumping bass which almost sounds like a heartbeat, and 430 00:25:47,956 --> 00:25:51,556 Speaker 2: then you have a little tacking sound like like a 431 00:25:51,596 --> 00:25:57,196 Speaker 2: Geiger counter like and then these crackling sound effects that 432 00:25:57,316 --> 00:26:00,396 Speaker 2: sounds kind of like a nuclear reaction or something. And 433 00:26:00,516 --> 00:26:03,356 Speaker 2: that's just those three elements, and that's it's a big 434 00:26:03,516 --> 00:26:06,156 Speaker 2: shift of the music in the film to that point. 435 00:26:06,956 --> 00:26:08,716 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's already kind of like that 436 00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:12,396 Speaker 2: shit moment, but like you're literally there at that moment. 437 00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:15,716 Speaker 2: You're like, they could blow up the whole world, you know, 438 00:26:15,916 --> 00:26:17,996 Speaker 2: they could kill all of us. 439 00:26:18,076 --> 00:26:21,036 Speaker 1: They still yeah, and then. 440 00:26:22,716 --> 00:26:24,396 Speaker 2: I and then I would say one of the other 441 00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:28,116 Speaker 2: important parts the puzzle was to find the right theme 442 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:32,276 Speaker 2: for for the for Kitty and which is kind of 443 00:26:32,316 --> 00:26:34,916 Speaker 2: the love theme. And you know, she's the person that 444 00:26:35,196 --> 00:26:39,156 Speaker 2: that really holds him down, you know, and and angers 445 00:26:39,196 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 2: him as a person. And and you can tell that 446 00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:45,876 Speaker 2: she's making a lot of the big decisions too, I think. 447 00:26:47,196 --> 00:26:50,116 Speaker 2: And she's such an interesting character and I think the 448 00:26:50,196 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 2: relationship they had, I think was was was very special 449 00:26:53,436 --> 00:26:56,436 Speaker 2: and beautiful and important to him. So I wanted her 450 00:26:56,596 --> 00:27:02,276 Speaker 2: theme to feel completely like almost like the yinto yang, and. 451 00:27:02,476 --> 00:27:03,996 Speaker 1: It certainly seem like he needed her. 452 00:27:04,276 --> 00:27:06,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, but in the end, like the way that they're 453 00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:09,036 Speaker 2: working together, and then especially the last thing, which is 454 00:27:09,156 --> 00:27:12,956 Speaker 2: testifying you know how important that God? Yeah, right, And 455 00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:14,996 Speaker 2: so I wanted her. You know, her theme has this 456 00:27:15,236 --> 00:27:20,236 Speaker 2: the richness of of the piano and and it's also 457 00:27:20,916 --> 00:27:24,156 Speaker 2: a wallz and it starts with these cores that are 458 00:27:24,276 --> 00:27:27,356 Speaker 2: just have these long pauses in between them to kind 459 00:27:27,396 --> 00:27:30,876 Speaker 2: of highlight the tension because the scenes where she is 460 00:27:30,956 --> 00:27:34,796 Speaker 2: in like there's so much tension. Like her performance is incredible, 461 00:27:34,996 --> 00:27:38,276 Speaker 2: especially you know when when she said that the deposition 462 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:41,916 Speaker 2: is witnessing and you having these cours and like you 463 00:27:41,996 --> 00:27:44,596 Speaker 2: don't know where it's gonna go. Is she gonna make 464 00:27:44,636 --> 00:27:45,236 Speaker 2: it or break it? 465 00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:45,516 Speaker 1: You know? 466 00:27:46,356 --> 00:27:48,636 Speaker 2: But they just I feel like the end of the 467 00:27:48,676 --> 00:27:50,476 Speaker 2: way it grows just kind of makes you feel like 468 00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:54,396 Speaker 2: how strong of a character she is. And then you 469 00:27:54,556 --> 00:27:59,156 Speaker 2: have the cello melody playing her theme and then the 470 00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:02,956 Speaker 2: violent melody whose open hammer's instrument kind of joins in 471 00:28:03,116 --> 00:28:05,796 Speaker 2: in the middle and it becomes the walls and the 472 00:28:06,196 --> 00:28:08,636 Speaker 2: two cellos and the violin are playing against each other, 473 00:28:08,876 --> 00:28:10,836 Speaker 2: and it's almost like they're dancing together. 474 00:28:11,636 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 1: In mind place where it's warm chords. I always love 475 00:28:13,916 --> 00:28:15,116 Speaker 1: to hear the kind of what you're. 476 00:28:39,996 --> 00:28:59,316 Speaker 2: H m. 477 00:29:02,996 --> 00:29:31,116 Speaker 1: M. We're gonna pause briefly, then come back with more 478 00:29:31,236 --> 00:29:38,276 Speaker 1: from Ludvig Golorensen. We're back with the rest of my 479 00:29:38,396 --> 00:29:43,516 Speaker 1: conversation with Ludvig Gorensen. Jazz was sort of early on 480 00:29:44,156 --> 00:29:46,076 Speaker 1: where you're interests laid musically. 481 00:29:45,916 --> 00:29:48,876 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's kind that's where it went in high 482 00:29:48,916 --> 00:29:49,636 Speaker 2: school and college. 483 00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:51,996 Speaker 1: When did classical music enter your life? 484 00:29:51,996 --> 00:29:55,516 Speaker 2: If ever, it was right before I got into jazz. 485 00:29:56,436 --> 00:29:58,276 Speaker 2: Actually it was like around the same time I got 486 00:29:58,316 --> 00:30:02,076 Speaker 2: into jazz a little a little earlier, and first I 487 00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:06,196 Speaker 2: was into heavy metal and rock and instrumental rock and 488 00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:11,036 Speaker 2: guitar shredding and heavy dark metal. Then I get into 489 00:30:11,316 --> 00:30:13,756 Speaker 2: pop music and try to I wanted to be part 490 00:30:13,796 --> 00:30:17,556 Speaker 2: of the Shay Run studio in Stockholm, like like working 491 00:30:17,676 --> 00:30:20,196 Speaker 2: on Britney Spears and Vester Boys and like that. 492 00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:21,996 Speaker 1: That was the factory. 493 00:30:23,836 --> 00:30:25,796 Speaker 2: Part of that was in that was in high school 494 00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:28,276 Speaker 2: being part of mix Marna Studio, and I think that 495 00:30:28,436 --> 00:30:30,036 Speaker 2: was that kind of went hand in hand with me 496 00:30:30,156 --> 00:30:34,076 Speaker 2: being very interested in technology at an early age. Like 497 00:30:34,196 --> 00:30:36,836 Speaker 2: I loved being able to record myself. I had like 498 00:30:36,916 --> 00:30:40,276 Speaker 2: a four track portal recorder that was experimenting with at home, 499 00:30:40,356 --> 00:30:42,756 Speaker 2: and if you're trying to cassette tape on the other side, 500 00:30:42,876 --> 00:30:45,916 Speaker 2: like some half of the tracks went backwards. And and 501 00:30:46,076 --> 00:30:50,076 Speaker 2: then I got an eight track eight at recorder and 502 00:30:51,636 --> 00:30:54,476 Speaker 2: just messing around with that and and drum machines, and 503 00:30:54,596 --> 00:30:56,716 Speaker 2: it was there was something about technology that the kind 504 00:30:56,756 --> 00:31:00,756 Speaker 2: of spruced my interest in in in recording myself. 505 00:31:00,836 --> 00:31:01,236 Speaker 1: And and. 506 00:31:03,036 --> 00:31:06,036 Speaker 2: I mean I was always playing, you know, recording myself 507 00:31:06,076 --> 00:31:09,836 Speaker 2: and playing it for my parents and listening to it 508 00:31:09,916 --> 00:31:14,156 Speaker 2: obviously over and over by myself. I guess it became 509 00:31:14,196 --> 00:31:15,916 Speaker 2: a way where you could hear, you could really hear 510 00:31:15,996 --> 00:31:18,796 Speaker 2: yourself how you were playing, and you could get better, 511 00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:21,996 Speaker 2: and you could like hear like, Okay, we really need 512 00:31:22,036 --> 00:31:25,876 Speaker 2: to practice on this, practice on that. And then I 513 00:31:25,996 --> 00:31:29,156 Speaker 2: had a program on my computer called like Impulse Tracker 514 00:31:29,756 --> 00:31:32,276 Speaker 2: where I was able to program like one zeros and 515 00:31:32,356 --> 00:31:34,596 Speaker 2: ones and make music that way. That was before I 516 00:31:34,676 --> 00:31:38,036 Speaker 2: had cubas, and that stuff pre cubas yeah, pre cubased, 517 00:31:38,036 --> 00:31:42,276 Speaker 2: pre pre daw yeah, and then getting a synthesizer and 518 00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:44,716 Speaker 2: being able to just play around with that and hearing 519 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:47,996 Speaker 2: those like creating weird sounds. And I also went to 520 00:31:48,276 --> 00:31:51,476 Speaker 2: music elementary school, so all my friends were all in music, 521 00:31:51,516 --> 00:31:54,036 Speaker 2: and I was able to start a band and. 522 00:31:54,116 --> 00:31:54,516 Speaker 1: We had a. 523 00:31:56,156 --> 00:31:59,996 Speaker 2: Very very cool band together called Thromosis in sixth grade, 524 00:32:01,156 --> 00:32:01,956 Speaker 2: like a hardcore band. 525 00:32:02,036 --> 00:32:02,996 Speaker 1: Did you record the group? 526 00:32:03,316 --> 00:32:05,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah I did. I was the recording engineer in 527 00:32:06,036 --> 00:32:09,156 Speaker 2: the mixer, and we made a little tape and we 528 00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:12,716 Speaker 2: sold it at the local record store for two dollars, 529 00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:15,996 Speaker 2: and then we got a review in our local newspaper 530 00:32:16,276 --> 00:32:16,956 Speaker 2: two out of five. 531 00:32:17,356 --> 00:32:19,716 Speaker 1: Exhilarating, no heartbreaking. 532 00:32:20,276 --> 00:32:21,956 Speaker 2: Really we were so depressed. 533 00:32:22,596 --> 00:32:23,356 Speaker 1: That's your first go. 534 00:32:23,756 --> 00:32:26,556 Speaker 2: You know, to even get picked up something about in 535 00:32:26,636 --> 00:32:28,636 Speaker 2: our man's this was the best music ever created. 536 00:32:28,756 --> 00:32:32,556 Speaker 1: Of course, of course, do you remember anything that they 537 00:32:32,636 --> 00:32:33,436 Speaker 1: said in the review. 538 00:32:34,076 --> 00:32:36,076 Speaker 2: I think they were trying maybe a little to make 539 00:32:36,116 --> 00:32:38,756 Speaker 2: it so nice, like where these guys go in sixth 540 00:32:38,796 --> 00:32:41,676 Speaker 2: grade or starting out, but it was kind of like 541 00:32:41,756 --> 00:32:44,996 Speaker 2: there was was it felt like belittling? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 542 00:32:45,596 --> 00:32:47,516 Speaker 2: because we were like we thought we were like competing 543 00:32:47,556 --> 00:32:49,916 Speaker 2: with the real gang, so the real boys dogs, Yeah, 544 00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:50,716 Speaker 2: the big dogs. 545 00:32:50,916 --> 00:32:53,436 Speaker 1: It's very unique, I guess to have grown up so 546 00:32:53,636 --> 00:32:57,156 Speaker 1: far away from you know, like New York lam and 547 00:32:57,316 --> 00:33:01,076 Speaker 1: to have had like a Max Martin making music round 548 00:33:01,116 --> 00:33:01,276 Speaker 1: you know. 549 00:33:01,916 --> 00:33:04,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that this was before that I was into 550 00:33:04,956 --> 00:33:07,036 Speaker 2: that mix morning pop music. This was in This was 551 00:33:07,116 --> 00:33:09,356 Speaker 2: when like our town where we were from was was 552 00:33:09,396 --> 00:33:13,476 Speaker 2: all in like hardcore scene, Like we had Melancholin in Sweden, 553 00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:16,356 Speaker 2: and then we had some other they were not from 554 00:33:16,356 --> 00:33:18,596 Speaker 2: my hometown, but we had other hardcore bands from my 555 00:33:18,996 --> 00:33:21,636 Speaker 2: town called one was called nine and one was called Outlast, 556 00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:25,116 Speaker 2: and there was a It was a very pretty cool time. 557 00:33:26,076 --> 00:33:27,756 Speaker 2: And then and I remember seeing when I saw My 558 00:33:27,836 --> 00:33:31,116 Speaker 2: Sugar for the first time in like seventh grade or 559 00:33:31,116 --> 00:33:33,316 Speaker 2: sixth grade, and that was a cool experience. 560 00:33:33,556 --> 00:33:35,756 Speaker 1: Does that stuff still resonate with you? Yeah? 561 00:33:35,876 --> 00:33:39,556 Speaker 2: Absolutely, they're They are like my probably the only metal 562 00:33:39,596 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 2: band I still listened to. Yeah, yeah, one of my 563 00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:43,236 Speaker 2: favorite live bands. 564 00:33:43,836 --> 00:33:47,356 Speaker 1: Did you guys view American hardcore and metal as being 565 00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:48,316 Speaker 1: a little watered down? 566 00:33:49,436 --> 00:33:52,396 Speaker 2: It was hard to have access to that music for 567 00:33:52,556 --> 00:33:53,156 Speaker 2: me at least. 568 00:33:53,876 --> 00:33:56,276 Speaker 1: I guess Metallica though would have been like that was 569 00:33:56,636 --> 00:33:57,996 Speaker 1: something right, of course that. 570 00:33:58,076 --> 00:33:59,636 Speaker 2: Was that was like the dream right, that was I 571 00:33:59,676 --> 00:34:01,956 Speaker 2: mean least my that was at least my dream band 572 00:34:02,116 --> 00:34:05,796 Speaker 2: my and I think also in our culture in Sweden 573 00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:08,356 Speaker 2: a Scannavia, it's like you always look up to you 574 00:34:08,396 --> 00:34:10,876 Speaker 2: always look up to America, and I think that it's 575 00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:11,916 Speaker 2: in every kind of fields. 576 00:34:13,196 --> 00:34:13,396 Speaker 3: Yeah. 577 00:34:13,876 --> 00:34:16,716 Speaker 1: Is it true that you discovered USC just on the 578 00:34:16,756 --> 00:34:20,356 Speaker 1: internet that you had no idea what USC was, you 579 00:34:20,396 --> 00:34:21,036 Speaker 1: had never heard of it. 580 00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:24,636 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was very complicated to try to find colleges 581 00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:27,396 Speaker 2: and try to find schools. And I had to do it, 582 00:34:27,796 --> 00:34:31,876 Speaker 2: you know, all by myself, no counseling, no, all that 583 00:34:32,076 --> 00:34:35,236 Speaker 2: was so foreign, Like this was two thousand and six, 584 00:34:35,396 --> 00:34:38,796 Speaker 2: so the websites were still kind of ugly looking and 585 00:34:39,036 --> 00:34:43,116 Speaker 2: very Yeah. And I had never been to the States. 586 00:34:43,396 --> 00:34:46,396 Speaker 2: I didn't know anyone in the States. It is very very, 587 00:34:46,596 --> 00:34:51,356 Speaker 2: very very very far. The closest laceship at the States 588 00:34:51,476 --> 00:34:53,516 Speaker 2: was probably like the Brett Easton Ellis books that I 589 00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:54,356 Speaker 2: was reading at the time. 590 00:34:54,436 --> 00:34:57,756 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a great view of America. You must 591 00:34:57,796 --> 00:35:02,956 Speaker 1: have gotten Jesus surprised he came why la over New York? 592 00:35:03,036 --> 00:35:04,716 Speaker 2: Or was I knew that I wanted to do film? 593 00:35:04,756 --> 00:35:07,956 Speaker 2: Scoring got it. I had gone really into film scoring. 594 00:35:08,036 --> 00:35:11,036 Speaker 2: I'd gotten to work with an orchestra in high school 595 00:35:11,956 --> 00:35:14,716 Speaker 2: and having them perform my music for the first time, 596 00:35:14,836 --> 00:35:18,756 Speaker 2: like having written music for orchestra seventy people that was 597 00:35:18,836 --> 00:35:22,276 Speaker 2: playing my music in a concert hall, was that feeling 598 00:35:22,476 --> 00:35:25,916 Speaker 2: was transcending everything else. So it's like trying to think 599 00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:29,756 Speaker 2: about how I can do that again. And also the 600 00:35:29,836 --> 00:35:32,516 Speaker 2: mus that I wrote was very much like John Williams 601 00:35:32,636 --> 00:35:38,276 Speaker 2: and If Star Wars was in Nightmare Pro Christmas, and 602 00:35:38,596 --> 00:35:40,956 Speaker 2: I knew that after that that I wanted to become 603 00:35:41,116 --> 00:35:44,876 Speaker 2: better on my instrument. And also in Sweden, like the 604 00:35:44,956 --> 00:35:47,316 Speaker 2: only kind of route you can take is through education 605 00:35:47,516 --> 00:35:50,556 Speaker 2: and the most one of the most difficult schools to 606 00:35:50,596 --> 00:35:52,876 Speaker 2: get into was the Royal College of Music in Jazz 607 00:35:53,036 --> 00:35:56,556 Speaker 2: and Guitar, which you did and after I didn't get 608 00:35:56,596 --> 00:35:58,516 Speaker 2: in the first time, so I had to take a 609 00:35:58,596 --> 00:36:01,036 Speaker 2: year off and like practice more, and I went to 610 00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:03,676 Speaker 2: another school called the People School, where you just in 611 00:36:03,756 --> 00:36:05,596 Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere just play on your instruments and 612 00:36:05,676 --> 00:36:06,596 Speaker 2: you just play around, you know. 613 00:36:06,716 --> 00:36:08,676 Speaker 1: The countryside by high country side, and. 614 00:36:08,756 --> 00:36:10,756 Speaker 2: There's everyone in your class is just there to play 615 00:36:10,876 --> 00:36:13,956 Speaker 2: and it's it's amazing. Uh, And then I got in. 616 00:36:14,596 --> 00:36:16,756 Speaker 1: What did you have to audition? Yeah? Yeah, what do 617 00:36:16,796 --> 00:36:18,316 Speaker 1: you have to do to get in? 618 00:36:19,116 --> 00:36:21,956 Speaker 2: It was nerve wracking because it was I think, I 619 00:36:21,996 --> 00:36:26,316 Speaker 2: don't know one hundred people applying for two spots, you know, 620 00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:29,476 Speaker 2: and these are one hundred more like I would say 621 00:36:29,556 --> 00:36:32,236 Speaker 2: half of those hundred are really good at their instrument. 622 00:36:33,036 --> 00:36:36,836 Speaker 2: And it's a first day of edition. You play, I 623 00:36:36,916 --> 00:36:40,396 Speaker 2: think you play a song, you play standard and any standard. 624 00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:43,076 Speaker 1: You want, and leaves maybe whatever. 625 00:36:43,236 --> 00:36:44,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I played. 626 00:36:44,636 --> 00:36:44,756 Speaker 1: Uh. 627 00:36:47,116 --> 00:36:48,996 Speaker 2: I think my first edition I played a Pat Metheni 628 00:36:49,116 --> 00:36:54,236 Speaker 2: song that's on his trio album. It was a song 629 00:36:54,476 --> 00:36:59,036 Speaker 2: called never Too Far Away from Pemine's album Questions and Answers. 630 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:02,476 Speaker 2: And so you played the first day, you play one song, 631 00:37:03,396 --> 00:37:06,996 Speaker 2: and then you stay at school the whole day and 632 00:37:07,076 --> 00:37:09,836 Speaker 2: you're just nerve wracking, just waiting that list to get 633 00:37:09,916 --> 00:37:10,556 Speaker 2: put on the wall. 634 00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:12,276 Speaker 1: Who makes the next cut. 635 00:37:13,076 --> 00:37:16,836 Speaker 2: And you know, and there's twenty I think twenty people 636 00:37:17,156 --> 00:37:20,276 Speaker 2: go to the next round, and then day two. If 637 00:37:20,316 --> 00:37:22,116 Speaker 2: you're lucky enough to be able to make a day too, 638 00:37:22,676 --> 00:37:27,516 Speaker 2: then there's I think a site reading test. There's I 639 00:37:27,596 --> 00:37:30,516 Speaker 2: think just improvisation tests where they put some cores in 640 00:37:30,556 --> 00:37:32,716 Speaker 2: front of you and just improvise, and then the band 641 00:37:32,796 --> 00:37:36,196 Speaker 2: is playing like five different tempos and all different time signatures, 642 00:37:36,276 --> 00:37:38,996 Speaker 2: and then you have to After that, you have to wait. 643 00:37:39,116 --> 00:37:41,116 Speaker 2: And then there's also like a theater test, a piano test, 644 00:37:41,396 --> 00:37:43,076 Speaker 2: and then they have to wait for three months or 645 00:37:43,116 --> 00:37:46,716 Speaker 2: something like that. Crazy yeah, and there and so you 646 00:37:46,836 --> 00:37:49,916 Speaker 2: do that test in like Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malma, which 647 00:37:49,996 --> 00:37:52,956 Speaker 2: is the three cities that has the College of Music. 648 00:37:53,076 --> 00:37:56,156 Speaker 1: Goddamn was it gutting to not get in? Yeah? 649 00:37:56,236 --> 00:37:59,116 Speaker 2: Ah, because I was most of I mean most most 650 00:37:59,156 --> 00:38:01,596 Speaker 2: of the times. I always kind of most of my life. 651 00:38:01,636 --> 00:38:04,516 Speaker 2: I had kind of like a in music. I always 652 00:38:04,556 --> 00:38:07,356 Speaker 2: kind of got I set up goals for myself that 653 00:38:07,396 --> 00:38:08,356 Speaker 2: I always made. 654 00:38:08,476 --> 00:38:11,076 Speaker 1: Most about some confidence in yourself. You're showing up playing 655 00:38:11,116 --> 00:38:13,676 Speaker 1: some ATHENI figured me. 656 00:38:13,916 --> 00:38:16,756 Speaker 2: I definitely had confidence because of like my band is 657 00:38:17,516 --> 00:38:20,036 Speaker 2: in high school and got to write the music for 658 00:38:20,116 --> 00:38:24,116 Speaker 2: the orchestra and then but I was very important part 659 00:38:24,156 --> 00:38:26,556 Speaker 2: of my career to go to finally get into the 660 00:38:27,116 --> 00:38:29,156 Speaker 2: College of Music and then not being the best of 661 00:38:29,196 --> 00:38:31,596 Speaker 2: my instrument, being like feeling like shit. I had to 662 00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:35,276 Speaker 2: practice for two years every day three four hours a day. 663 00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:37,516 Speaker 1: Do you think you really got much better? Oh? 664 00:38:37,636 --> 00:38:40,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I spent the first two years. And 665 00:38:40,196 --> 00:38:42,636 Speaker 2: then the last year I started my own band and 666 00:38:42,756 --> 00:38:44,636 Speaker 2: we want a bunch of competitions, and it was kind 667 00:38:44,676 --> 00:38:47,196 Speaker 2: of like, oh, look I was able to You didn't 668 00:38:47,236 --> 00:38:48,316 Speaker 2: think that was going to do this. 669 00:38:50,476 --> 00:38:54,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you did that, and then you felt like 670 00:38:54,476 --> 00:38:59,596 Speaker 1: just moving to la without some sort of structure felt 671 00:38:59,676 --> 00:39:01,796 Speaker 1: maybe a little do you put yourself out too far 672 00:39:01,836 --> 00:39:04,796 Speaker 1: out on a limb and that's why you decided to 673 00:39:04,916 --> 00:39:05,516 Speaker 1: try out USC. 674 00:39:05,956 --> 00:39:08,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't think you can even move 675 00:39:08,316 --> 00:39:10,836 Speaker 2: to la as a as a tourist. I mean you could, 676 00:39:10,876 --> 00:39:11,876 Speaker 2: you could live it for three months. 677 00:39:11,916 --> 00:39:14,916 Speaker 1: It's if I had to have a job. How would 678 00:39:14,916 --> 00:39:16,996 Speaker 1: you get a job? If you and you can't get 679 00:39:17,036 --> 00:39:17,636 Speaker 1: here without. 680 00:39:17,396 --> 00:39:21,316 Speaker 2: The job, that would have been impossible. So I had 681 00:39:21,396 --> 00:39:24,716 Speaker 2: won a couple of film music competitions in one of 682 00:39:24,756 --> 00:39:27,916 Speaker 2: them was in Netherlands, and the first prize of when 683 00:39:27,956 --> 00:39:31,796 Speaker 2: I won that competition was to score a commercial. So 684 00:39:32,556 --> 00:39:36,316 Speaker 2: I got a job for like a music commercial house 685 00:39:36,396 --> 00:39:39,836 Speaker 2: in Netherlands and I was still in Stockholm. This was 686 00:39:39,916 --> 00:39:42,796 Speaker 2: right before I finished college, and but that was like 687 00:39:42,876 --> 00:39:47,236 Speaker 2: a very to me. Winning that competition and and talking 688 00:39:47,356 --> 00:39:50,556 Speaker 2: and doing like a film scoring job was like pretty cool, 689 00:39:51,516 --> 00:39:54,276 Speaker 2: and I knew that maybe I had potential in this. 690 00:39:55,196 --> 00:39:59,236 Speaker 2: And I also scored a couple of student features in Stockholm. 691 00:40:00,436 --> 00:40:02,436 Speaker 2: So I applied to you see, I found you know, 692 00:40:02,436 --> 00:40:04,356 Speaker 2: I found the website. I think it was I found 693 00:40:04,396 --> 00:40:06,116 Speaker 2: the school in New York. I found a school in LA, 694 00:40:06,676 --> 00:40:09,716 Speaker 2: maybe one in England and one in Australia. And I 695 00:40:09,836 --> 00:40:11,876 Speaker 2: only applied to the one in LA because I wanted 696 00:40:11,956 --> 00:40:13,636 Speaker 2: us to film the type of films that I wanted 697 00:40:13,636 --> 00:40:18,476 Speaker 2: to work on. And I got a phone call from 698 00:40:18,516 --> 00:40:21,916 Speaker 2: the professor, Brian King, and he was he was ahead 699 00:40:21,916 --> 00:40:23,676 Speaker 2: of my program at the time, and he was like, hey, man, 700 00:40:24,436 --> 00:40:27,996 Speaker 2: this is Brian calling it from LA. It's sunshine every day. 701 00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:29,556 Speaker 1: You have to move here. 702 00:40:29,676 --> 00:40:32,076 Speaker 2: You're gonna love it, bro. It's I was like, okay, 703 00:40:32,996 --> 00:40:37,836 Speaker 2: sounds amazing, this sounds great, great California. That's with that 704 00:40:38,076 --> 00:40:39,516 Speaker 2: like super positive voice. 705 00:40:39,516 --> 00:40:40,436 Speaker 1: He's gonna love it, bro. 706 00:40:41,996 --> 00:40:45,836 Speaker 2: And I was like, hell, yeah, I'm totally doing this. 707 00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:50,476 Speaker 2: My parents were a little hesitant, but yeah, I made 708 00:40:50,516 --> 00:40:53,996 Speaker 2: the move. Didn't know anyone in LA. First couple of 709 00:40:55,076 --> 00:40:56,716 Speaker 2: first year was very difficult. 710 00:40:57,116 --> 00:40:59,436 Speaker 1: It's hard when you don't know people, and you don't 711 00:40:59,476 --> 00:41:00,316 Speaker 1: know the lay of the land. 712 00:41:00,356 --> 00:41:03,556 Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's not very forgiving if you just no. 713 00:41:03,876 --> 00:41:06,356 Speaker 2: It was like I was crying every night for like 714 00:41:06,396 --> 00:41:09,676 Speaker 2: at least the first three months I can own on 715 00:41:09,836 --> 00:41:13,876 Speaker 2: the bus back back from UC on Venice Boulevard back 716 00:41:13,876 --> 00:41:14,556 Speaker 2: to Kover City. 717 00:41:14,876 --> 00:41:15,156 Speaker 1: Wow. 718 00:41:15,956 --> 00:41:19,876 Speaker 2: And so I found I moved closer to UC, and 719 00:41:21,236 --> 00:41:23,556 Speaker 2: I moved into a it was a fraternity house that 720 00:41:23,836 --> 00:41:25,716 Speaker 2: that then they had thrown out the fraternity so it 721 00:41:25,836 --> 00:41:29,356 Speaker 2: was only open for grad students. And and then it 722 00:41:29,796 --> 00:41:33,836 Speaker 2: literally felt like I was walking into American pie. I 723 00:41:33,876 --> 00:41:36,796 Speaker 2: didn't know that culture, but everyone on my street was 724 00:41:36,916 --> 00:41:39,396 Speaker 2: partying every night and it was great. I mean I was. 725 00:41:39,476 --> 00:41:42,676 Speaker 1: It is a strong error for USC. Got it's falling 726 00:41:42,676 --> 00:41:44,956 Speaker 1: on hard times right now, but that two thousand and 727 00:41:44,996 --> 00:41:47,636 Speaker 1: six or seven USC, Yeah, it's a strong era. 728 00:41:48,156 --> 00:41:50,436 Speaker 2: It was amazing. I was just I was in my 729 00:41:50,716 --> 00:41:53,076 Speaker 2: little room working with headphones every night and just like 730 00:41:53,396 --> 00:41:55,516 Speaker 2: opening up the blinds and seeing like these dudes and 731 00:41:56,116 --> 00:41:59,356 Speaker 2: no shirt and drinking alcohol from those red cups and 732 00:42:00,076 --> 00:42:03,196 Speaker 2: having the life. And that's so that's also where I 733 00:42:03,236 --> 00:42:05,676 Speaker 2: met Ryan in the in that housing. 734 00:42:06,316 --> 00:42:09,036 Speaker 1: Like pretty quickly, it seems like you started getting war, 735 00:42:09,436 --> 00:42:12,676 Speaker 1: you know. Within a couple of years, I got Marley 736 00:42:12,756 --> 00:42:12,916 Speaker 1: and Me. 737 00:42:13,116 --> 00:42:15,436 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I was I was the assistant for 738 00:42:15,676 --> 00:42:19,396 Speaker 2: Theodore Shapiro, who scored Marlon Me and he was working 739 00:42:19,476 --> 00:42:21,556 Speaker 2: on he was scoring Tropic Thunder at the time. So 740 00:42:21,836 --> 00:42:25,316 Speaker 2: I just finished college and that was my first job 741 00:42:25,356 --> 00:42:26,196 Speaker 2: and it was amazing. 742 00:42:26,396 --> 00:42:29,436 Speaker 1: Must have been incredible. Yeah, Marlon was a huge movie, 743 00:42:29,676 --> 00:42:30,356 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, it was. 744 00:42:31,076 --> 00:42:34,436 Speaker 2: It was like Marlon Me and and yeah, and Trump 745 00:42:35,356 --> 00:42:37,276 Speaker 2: Costilla was in the room when we were recording. That 746 00:42:37,396 --> 00:42:39,116 Speaker 2: was just obviously a fly on the wall sitting in 747 00:42:39,196 --> 00:42:41,196 Speaker 2: the back, you know. But like I had to pinch 748 00:42:41,276 --> 00:42:44,996 Speaker 2: myself a couple of times, like see that I had 749 00:42:45,036 --> 00:42:47,956 Speaker 2: really gotten this job. And then I was also teddy. 750 00:42:48,476 --> 00:42:51,036 Speaker 2: I was working with Shapiro. He was also an incredible guy. 751 00:42:51,276 --> 00:42:52,796 Speaker 2: Like I had a lot of my friends in my 752 00:42:52,836 --> 00:42:57,116 Speaker 2: class got jobs for other composers that were not nice, 753 00:42:57,396 --> 00:43:00,716 Speaker 2: you know, and my but the Eddy that I was 754 00:43:00,796 --> 00:43:02,316 Speaker 2: working for, it was incredible. 755 00:43:02,356 --> 00:43:03,796 Speaker 1: He seemed to just really take a liking to you. 756 00:43:03,996 --> 00:43:06,836 Speaker 2: Mentored me, you know, taught me so much about, you know, 757 00:43:07,236 --> 00:43:11,076 Speaker 2: the crafts of film scoring, because it's it's writing musical 758 00:43:11,196 --> 00:43:15,996 Speaker 2: film is there's definitely a craft to writing music, especially 759 00:43:16,116 --> 00:43:18,036 Speaker 2: when I mean timing is everything. 760 00:43:18,636 --> 00:43:20,356 Speaker 1: How long did it take you to figure out the 761 00:43:21,236 --> 00:43:24,276 Speaker 1: just the process, the various processes that are involved. 762 00:43:24,596 --> 00:43:27,556 Speaker 2: I think I worked for I was head as assistant 763 00:43:27,596 --> 00:43:29,356 Speaker 2: for about two or three years, and I was just 764 00:43:29,756 --> 00:43:32,356 Speaker 2: looking at the craft and looking at how you craft 765 00:43:32,396 --> 00:43:35,516 Speaker 2: the scene and our craft, where the music ends, where 766 00:43:35,556 --> 00:43:38,236 Speaker 2: it starts, how you build it up. And also I 767 00:43:38,276 --> 00:43:40,476 Speaker 2: had and also you see, I had some great and 768 00:43:40,596 --> 00:43:42,756 Speaker 2: some great professors, and the reason why I wanted to 769 00:43:42,796 --> 00:43:45,316 Speaker 2: go there was that all of the professors are kind 770 00:43:45,316 --> 00:43:46,436 Speaker 2: of working in the business too. 771 00:43:46,636 --> 00:43:46,876 Speaker 1: Yeah. 772 00:43:47,076 --> 00:43:50,556 Speaker 2: But after I think it was about twenty and ten 773 00:43:51,036 --> 00:43:52,836 Speaker 2: or two thousand and nine, two thousand and nine, I 774 00:43:52,876 --> 00:43:56,276 Speaker 2: think I got my first job, which was a community 775 00:43:57,356 --> 00:43:59,756 Speaker 2: and there was an incredible chance for me to get 776 00:43:59,956 --> 00:44:03,156 Speaker 2: that TV show and it was a big chance for me, 777 00:44:04,036 --> 00:44:07,116 Speaker 2: and the Russ brothers hired me and Dan Harmon. 778 00:44:07,676 --> 00:44:08,956 Speaker 1: How did you meet How did you meet? Them? 779 00:44:09,516 --> 00:44:12,636 Speaker 2: Big on Teddy's recommendation because they had worked with him 780 00:44:12,676 --> 00:44:14,876 Speaker 2: before and he didn't have time to do the show 781 00:44:14,916 --> 00:44:18,156 Speaker 2: and he was he said, like, my assistant's great, and 782 00:44:18,956 --> 00:44:21,876 Speaker 2: that show was I put, you know, all my time 783 00:44:22,076 --> 00:44:25,036 Speaker 2: twelve hours in a day in making music for that show. 784 00:44:25,116 --> 00:44:29,196 Speaker 2: And it was the greatest training because you know, there 785 00:44:29,396 --> 00:44:32,156 Speaker 2: was her brothers really cared about the music. Dan Harmon 786 00:44:32,276 --> 00:44:34,796 Speaker 2: really cared about the music. We scored it with live 787 00:44:34,916 --> 00:44:38,916 Speaker 2: orchestra a couple episodes and one episode was Lord of 788 00:44:38,916 --> 00:44:41,556 Speaker 2: the ringspoof one episode was like a Star Wars fool. 789 00:44:41,596 --> 00:44:43,676 Speaker 2: Like I got to do all these styles of music. Yeah, 790 00:44:43,796 --> 00:44:47,156 Speaker 2: so I got really kind of trained my chops and 791 00:44:47,796 --> 00:44:50,876 Speaker 2: the music had a huge part in this show. And 792 00:44:51,036 --> 00:44:53,636 Speaker 2: then after that I got because the music supervisors on 793 00:44:53,716 --> 00:44:57,316 Speaker 2: that show referred me to it was a bit Meriweather 794 00:44:57,436 --> 00:44:59,796 Speaker 2: who did New Girl, and she hired me for that show. 795 00:44:59,876 --> 00:45:02,836 Speaker 2: And then that would have been like twenty twelve eleven 796 00:45:02,996 --> 00:45:06,676 Speaker 2: or something, and then Happy Endings. It was another show 797 00:45:06,716 --> 00:45:08,156 Speaker 2: that I did, and I was really into, like the 798 00:45:08,196 --> 00:45:11,716 Speaker 2: sitcom show. I had like three shows on network on 799 00:45:11,836 --> 00:45:12,996 Speaker 2: air every week. 800 00:45:13,036 --> 00:45:15,996 Speaker 1: It's huge. Yeah, that must be it must be a grind. Yeah. 801 00:45:16,356 --> 00:45:18,436 Speaker 2: And I was like twenty seven maybe. 802 00:45:18,676 --> 00:45:20,516 Speaker 1: Where you still feeling like, dang, I want to get 803 00:45:20,516 --> 00:45:20,836 Speaker 1: a movie. 804 00:45:21,796 --> 00:45:23,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like I was starting to get a 805 00:45:23,476 --> 00:45:26,436 Speaker 2: little bit not nervous, but I was I definitely felt like, 806 00:45:26,956 --> 00:45:29,796 Speaker 2: oh I can I can do this furtherest through my life, 807 00:45:29,916 --> 00:45:33,196 Speaker 2: I can see how you can, really just because it's 808 00:45:33,236 --> 00:45:35,436 Speaker 2: so hard to say no. Like someone's asking for another 809 00:45:35,476 --> 00:45:37,076 Speaker 2: TV show, Hey, do you want to do this TV show? 810 00:45:37,196 --> 00:45:37,396 Speaker 1: Yeah? 811 00:45:37,516 --> 00:45:40,316 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah, Like I'm going to meet new people, 812 00:45:41,036 --> 00:45:44,236 Speaker 2: going to get another good paycheck, and I can like 813 00:45:44,756 --> 00:45:48,036 Speaker 2: make my team bigger, and and there's you know, I 814 00:45:48,076 --> 00:45:51,956 Speaker 2: could easily taken on ten TV shows a week and 815 00:45:52,116 --> 00:45:56,636 Speaker 2: like kind of made myself, you know, an incredible life. 816 00:45:56,876 --> 00:46:01,516 Speaker 1: That's another version of an incredible Ludwig gorens In life. 817 00:46:01,636 --> 00:46:01,796 Speaker 1: You know. 818 00:46:01,996 --> 00:46:06,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, But creatively, maybe I wouldn't have been as content 819 00:46:06,796 --> 00:46:07,356 Speaker 2: as I am now. 820 00:46:07,436 --> 00:46:09,596 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm sure. I'm sure. I just pride to degree. 821 00:46:09,876 --> 00:46:11,836 Speaker 1: Is there anything that to this day that if you 822 00:46:11,916 --> 00:46:17,076 Speaker 1: think about, makes you WinCE a little wins just an 823 00:46:17,156 --> 00:46:20,476 Speaker 1: experience like you fucked something up or where you just 824 00:46:20,556 --> 00:46:22,476 Speaker 1: sort of feel like I wish I'd done that different 825 00:46:22,516 --> 00:46:24,476 Speaker 1: even or I wish I wish I had Just. 826 00:46:25,396 --> 00:46:27,156 Speaker 2: Maybe I can look back and it's like, Okay, well 827 00:46:27,356 --> 00:46:30,316 Speaker 2: I didn't need to do that project. But it's when 828 00:46:30,316 --> 00:46:32,636 Speaker 2: you started, When you get started, and like it's you know, 829 00:46:32,716 --> 00:46:35,876 Speaker 2: you do. You're also learning when say no and but 830 00:46:35,996 --> 00:46:40,076 Speaker 2: I think probably, I mean definitely the most challenging projects 831 00:46:40,236 --> 00:46:43,036 Speaker 2: I worked on was definitely like the last two years, 832 00:46:43,156 --> 00:46:46,996 Speaker 2: going from Wakana straight into Open amer Like it's just 833 00:46:47,196 --> 00:46:50,476 Speaker 2: the weight of both projects and like them being so 834 00:46:50,996 --> 00:46:54,316 Speaker 2: a huge movie, two huge movies, two back to back. Yeah, 835 00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:57,316 Speaker 2: and that had both of them had I have a 836 00:46:57,396 --> 00:46:58,116 Speaker 2: weight to it. 837 00:46:58,836 --> 00:47:00,476 Speaker 1: We're talking before I got a five and a seven 838 00:47:00,556 --> 00:47:02,956 Speaker 1: year old. So Troll's World towards big in my in 839 00:47:03,036 --> 00:47:05,676 Speaker 1: my house, I got to say, that soundtrack is banging. 840 00:47:07,756 --> 00:47:09,876 Speaker 1: How how was working on that with, like with Justin 841 00:47:09,956 --> 00:47:13,276 Speaker 1: Timberlake and Anderson Pack And Yeah. 842 00:47:13,276 --> 00:47:16,276 Speaker 2: That was a lot of fun. I was, man, I was, 843 00:47:16,636 --> 00:47:19,876 Speaker 2: I'd done Awaken My Love, I was about to do 844 00:47:20,076 --> 00:47:24,076 Speaker 2: Mandalorian or I was starting I had started out with Menlorian. 845 00:47:25,396 --> 00:47:29,356 Speaker 2: I think I'd gotten an oscar for Panther one, and 846 00:47:30,156 --> 00:47:35,876 Speaker 2: I was doing Troll's World Tour right for Tenant and 847 00:47:36,276 --> 00:47:38,516 Speaker 2: but I didn't do the school. I was doing the songs, 848 00:47:38,996 --> 00:47:40,636 Speaker 2: and I thought, I just thought it was so fun 849 00:47:40,676 --> 00:47:44,276 Speaker 2: because it's that obviously the whole story was driven by music. Yeah, 850 00:47:44,396 --> 00:47:46,236 Speaker 2: so we get we get the chance to do all 851 00:47:46,276 --> 00:47:49,076 Speaker 2: these covers and to do all these original songs and. 852 00:47:49,396 --> 00:47:52,076 Speaker 1: Were you able to help in the selection of some 853 00:47:52,196 --> 00:47:52,796 Speaker 1: of the songs. 854 00:47:53,236 --> 00:47:55,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I was that was that was very 855 00:47:55,316 --> 00:47:57,916 Speaker 2: very much part of everything. Like me, like Justin and 856 00:47:57,996 --> 00:48:02,676 Speaker 2: me worked close together on the selection of songs, and 857 00:48:02,836 --> 00:48:05,116 Speaker 2: then also in terms of like how we made the originals. 858 00:48:05,596 --> 00:48:08,836 Speaker 2: You know, we got Anderson Pack on this on one 859 00:48:08,916 --> 00:48:09,636 Speaker 2: or two songs. 860 00:48:09,796 --> 00:48:12,516 Speaker 1: I had originals on there. So good, they're really good. 861 00:48:12,836 --> 00:48:13,076 Speaker 2: Yeah. 862 00:48:13,796 --> 00:48:13,996 Speaker 1: Yeah. 863 00:48:13,996 --> 00:48:16,636 Speaker 2: And then I got to work with next Morning on 864 00:48:16,716 --> 00:48:21,476 Speaker 2: this song Sizza James James Follinroyd did a song with him, 865 00:48:22,076 --> 00:48:23,836 Speaker 2: good group People, fun people. 866 00:48:24,276 --> 00:48:26,476 Speaker 1: Your ranges, your range. As you're listening that off and 867 00:48:26,516 --> 00:48:30,876 Speaker 1: it's a black panther tenant and controls world. Toward that, 868 00:48:30,996 --> 00:48:33,556 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, the range is just 869 00:48:33,676 --> 00:48:34,316 Speaker 1: out of control. 870 00:48:34,396 --> 00:48:37,396 Speaker 2: Behime song too with the rock and roll rules. 871 00:48:37,476 --> 00:48:40,356 Speaker 1: It was like the rock rock rock and roll rules. Yeah, 872 00:48:40,756 --> 00:48:44,556 Speaker 1: that's right, it's so good. Yeah. What So you're trying 873 00:48:44,596 --> 00:48:47,316 Speaker 1: to kind of thin out your schedule a bit, I 874 00:48:47,356 --> 00:48:50,836 Speaker 1: guess what's kind of gonna How do you you're guiding 875 00:48:51,076 --> 00:48:53,876 Speaker 1: sort of light or principle going forward? How are you 876 00:48:53,916 --> 00:48:55,356 Speaker 1: going to know what to say yes to and what 877 00:48:55,436 --> 00:48:55,996 Speaker 1: to say no to? 878 00:48:56,876 --> 00:49:00,516 Speaker 2: I mean I feel like I have I have a 879 00:49:00,556 --> 00:49:04,076 Speaker 2: pretty good sense of my next five years, from my 880 00:49:04,196 --> 00:49:07,956 Speaker 2: next ten years, that the type of partists that I 881 00:49:07,996 --> 00:49:12,956 Speaker 2: want to do, I constantly want to challenge myself. And 882 00:49:13,916 --> 00:49:16,476 Speaker 2: I also feel very I'm very fortunate to be working 883 00:49:16,516 --> 00:49:20,236 Speaker 2: with the collaborators and people that I think are really 884 00:49:20,316 --> 00:49:24,436 Speaker 2: pushing the format and film forward and pushing the music forward. 885 00:49:24,516 --> 00:49:25,796 Speaker 1: And so. 886 00:49:27,596 --> 00:49:31,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right now. I'm just I'm like, I'm just 887 00:49:31,516 --> 00:49:35,916 Speaker 2: taking a little like a breather and waiting for the 888 00:49:36,036 --> 00:49:39,876 Speaker 2: craziness to start up again maybe and maybe middle next year. 889 00:49:39,916 --> 00:49:40,716 Speaker 2: I actually don't know. 890 00:49:41,316 --> 00:49:43,116 Speaker 1: Are you committed to a couple of projects? Ready? 891 00:49:43,196 --> 00:49:45,196 Speaker 2: I know, I'm just I'm just working on my own 892 00:49:45,476 --> 00:49:47,276 Speaker 2: music right now, my own album. 893 00:49:47,676 --> 00:49:50,796 Speaker 1: Yeah great, Yeah, how far into that are. 894 00:49:51,116 --> 00:49:54,796 Speaker 2: I started twenty eighteen and then Black Panther one came along, 895 00:49:54,916 --> 00:49:57,676 Speaker 2: so I got like fifty percent done, and then I 896 00:49:57,796 --> 00:50:00,996 Speaker 2: started again to twenty nineteen and I got like eight 897 00:50:01,036 --> 00:50:03,116 Speaker 2: percent done, and then another movie came along, so it's like, 898 00:50:03,236 --> 00:50:05,036 Speaker 2: I'm just like, Okay, I need to finish this now 899 00:50:05,876 --> 00:50:06,956 Speaker 2: before the next thing starts. 900 00:50:06,996 --> 00:50:11,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what's it? What's its sound? What's the It's 901 00:50:11,636 --> 00:50:12,036 Speaker 1: kind of like. 902 00:50:12,356 --> 00:50:19,436 Speaker 2: Second Ellly quirky, uh proggy, all organic elements and I'm 903 00:50:19,636 --> 00:50:21,556 Speaker 2: trying to sing too cool man. 904 00:50:21,596 --> 00:50:24,516 Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much, man, Congratulations on all the success, man, 905 00:50:24,636 --> 00:50:27,596 Speaker 1: all the thanks for all the incredible music. Man from 906 00:50:27,676 --> 00:50:30,156 Speaker 1: more stuff that I just enjoy putting on myself to this, 907 00:50:30,556 --> 00:50:32,876 Speaker 1: you know, give him my kids something to put on 908 00:50:32,996 --> 00:50:35,036 Speaker 1: that won't make me want to jump out the car. 909 00:50:35,556 --> 00:50:38,556 Speaker 1: It's like, just, yeah, I appreciate you having you out 910 00:50:38,596 --> 00:50:39,636 Speaker 1: in the musical universe. 911 00:50:39,916 --> 00:50:42,356 Speaker 2: No, thank you for having me on this podcast. And 912 00:50:42,476 --> 00:50:44,716 Speaker 2: it's so nice to talk to you. And yeah, I 913 00:50:44,796 --> 00:50:45,756 Speaker 2: really appreciate your time. 914 00:50:45,916 --> 00:50:50,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you man. Thanks to Ludvig Gornson for having 915 00:50:51,076 --> 00:50:53,076 Speaker 1: me to a studio to break down his approach to 916 00:50:53,196 --> 00:50:56,436 Speaker 1: film scoring and composition. You can hear his work on 917 00:50:56,476 --> 00:50:59,276 Speaker 1: the Oppenheimer's soundtrack, along with his sample of his other 918 00:50:59,396 --> 00:51:02,396 Speaker 1: music on a playlist app Broken record podcast dot com. 919 00:51:03,156 --> 00:51:06,076 Speaker 1: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash 920 00:51:06,156 --> 00:51:08,516 Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our 921 00:51:08,596 --> 00:51:12,636 Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. 922 00:51:13,156 --> 00:51:16,036 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with 923 00:51:16,196 --> 00:51:19,596 Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer 924 00:51:19,836 --> 00:51:24,156 Speaker 1: is Ben Tolliney. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 925 00:51:24,596 --> 00:51:27,396 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 926 00:51:27,436 --> 00:51:31,756 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 927 00:51:31,876 --> 00:51:34,636 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 928 00:51:34,796 --> 00:51:38,036 Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 929 00:51:38,116 --> 00:51:42,076 Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember 930 00:51:42,116 --> 00:51:44,636 Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. 931 00:51:44,996 --> 00:51:47,676 Speaker 1: Our theme music's back an the Beats. I'm justin Richmond.