WEBVTT - Samara Bay 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.360 This is a quote from Brittany Packnet in her ted 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:07.800 talk about confidence, permission, community, curiosity. All of these are 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.639 the things that we need to breathe the confidence that 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.560 will absolutely need to solve our greatest challenges and to 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.200 build the world. We dream a world where inequity has ended, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.599 where justice is real. A world where we can be 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.400 free on the outside and free on the inside, because 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.000 we know that none of us are free until all 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.320 of us are free. A world that isn't intimidated by 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.080 confidence when it shows up in a woman, or in 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.159 black skin, or in anything other than our preferred archetypes 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:47.800 of leadership. Hello everybody, and welcome to the inaugural episode 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.080 of Permission to Speak, a new podcast for anyone who 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.479 thinks that the way that we talk about women's voices 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.440 could um use a little work. I'm your host, Samarbe 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.600 for those first episode the this is actually me. So 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.000 we have Jack O'Brien, the head of my Heart Radio 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.600 l A, in the studio and he's going to be 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.160 interviewing me along with Katherine Burke Campton. So I'm going 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.440 to tell you guys a little bit about them for context. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.000 Here's what I know about Jack. He first of all, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.080 founded Cracked dot com in two thousand five and was 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.839 editor in chief there until he left in to become 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.320 what I like to call the King of podcast over here, 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:32.760 where he produces projects like The Ron Burgundy Show and 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.559 the one that he co hosts every single day called 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.720 The Daily Zeitgeist. And uh, I should say I know 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.880 him as the gentleman who greenlit my show, which I 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.440 mean will surely be his ultimate legacy. And then Kat 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.440 and Mark are my producers and my friends. And Kat 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:56.120 is joining us on Mike today as well. Wait there 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.080 she is. Hi, guys, this is Mark. I'll probably do 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:00.680 a pickup of this because I'm not gonna like the 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.680 way it sounds. Um, and I have to say also, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:08.560 they sometimes bring their newborn Eloise, and um, she's got 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.679 some hot takes, ladies and gentlemen. Anyway, I'm thrilled that 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.799 they joined me in the studio today and I can't 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.440 wait to share with you guys why I pitched this 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.280 show and why I'm so excited that we're doing it. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.919 Samara Cat, thank you for joining me here. I'm glad 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.760 you've no so, I guess I wanted to uh talk 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.280 about just what is great about the show. Why I'm 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.640 super excited to have this show in existence and on 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.959 our network. Um, why I'm excited to have you Samara, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.400 Thank you. I have to say, by the way, I'm 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:54.040 wearing my same blazer I wore when I pitched this show. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.919 I just I just felt like, you know, my new 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:00.120 lucky blazer. Yeah, and it's a great blazer. Uh. And 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.600 I was just looking back at the email I sent 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.919 after you pitched it, and it was like, I think 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.760 it was I sent it while you were pitching it. 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.480 I was like, we have to get this show on 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.200 the butt pitch. It's something. I host a show called 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.240 The Daily y. I'm not saying that to plug it 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:21.920 like upto, man, am I right? But I am, you know, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.520 because it's a daily show. I am plugged into like 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.440 what is happening in the culture on a regular basis, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:32.880 and the subject of women's voices and voices in general 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.640 is something that I feel like keeps coming up. Is 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.760 uh sort of becoming a front line in you know, 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.040 some of the most important conversations we're having about power dynamics. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.480 And then you came in and just kind of put 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.440 it all into words and like made it Crystal Clear 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.119 for me. And then there was, you know, an episode 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.280 of This American Life where they talked about how the 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:02.000 most common feedback they got was men telling the women 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.120 on their show to stop having vocal from that was 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.520 like ten years ago, and people are like, vocal fries 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.880 this new phenomenon. It's gripping young girls everywhere, and I'm like, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.000 it's actually been around our entire adult life, and amazingly 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.640 because the men on This American Life have way more 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.440 affected voices than can we just real quick define vocal 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.760 fri because we're gonna talk about that, Yeah, for sure. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.000 I mean vocal fry for me fits into a much 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.440 larger category of ways that we kind of hided vocally. Um. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.239 But it I mean, it's technically for for people listening 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.320 who have always been like, what does it really sound like? 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.479 It's something you're probably already doing at the ends of 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.159 a lot of sentences, but it is when your voice 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.960 goes from like being supported with breath to kind of 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.000 not being supported and sounding like that, Ah, that was good. 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.599 It's almost like you did this. And I know and 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.080 I do tell people like even when we say something 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.240 strong and powerful, like you know, I believe filling the 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.159 blank thing. We often end it if we're talking in 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.240 front of other people and we suddenly become self conscious, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.080 we often end it with like I care a lot 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.480 about this thing, or like whatever, and that's you know. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.240 I mean, honestly, one of the biggest aspects of my 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.520 kind of ethos or philosophy as a you know, speech 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.719 coach for people is that I am not actually pointing 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:15.960 those things out to demonize it. I'm not saying like 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.400 young girls who do this are bad or are you know, 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.640 or even are undermining themselves. I'm saying it's something that 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.680 we should be aware of and that we have so 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.719 many more tools at our disposal, so we have to 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.560 know is that thing we're doing helping us get what 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.440 we want, or is it's something we've picked up at 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.239 some point to please someone else and it isn't actually 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.359 our authentic voice. Yeah, I mean, it's the raw material 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.719 that we communicate with, and that a lot of communication, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:49.600 especially now as podcasts are increasingly becoming a record of 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:56.440 the oral tradition that we have what um, it's it's 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.760 increasingly the raw material that we're using to spress ourselves 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:05.200 and to communicate, and it's just something that hadn't I 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:11.360 hadn't specifically thought about in the terms that I probably 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.400 should have been thinking about it until you came in 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.599 and were like, here and let me describe it in 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.960 this incredibly clear and perfect way that just crystallized a 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.560 lot of things from it. I mean, I do feel like, um, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.760 the voice, I mean, I don't feel like the voice 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.640 is invisible. Guys, you're here first. But you know, my 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.040 point is really that although we may have seen think 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.680 pieces here and there, the voice is invisible and we 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.320 haven't necessarily thought about our own voice except for those 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.640 rare moments when somebody points it out to us. You know, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.720 a lot of my clients, whether we're talking about actors 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.479 or we're talking about people in like you know, the 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.960 corporate world, or entrepreneurs or politicians, a lot of them 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.479 are people who are finding their way into power in 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.799 a new way, Like they see it on the horizon, 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.640 or they're being offered an opportunity or they're not being 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.520 offered it and they're ready to fight back. And what 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.920 do they do differently to bring you know, the best 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.560 version of themselves into those scenarios so that that power happens. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.480 So the people who deserve it, get it. That's yeah, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.360 I mean there, there it is. There's the cry. Oh, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.960 I don't know, I don't know, but you know. But 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.120 but what I what I really loved about that conversation 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.080 that we had, Jack, was that, um, I was able 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.040 to talk about what I've always thought about, which is that, like, 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.000 the voice is a way in, it's a frame to 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.119 talk about so much of the societal stuff that's played 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.920 out on our bodies and in our minds in terms 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.400 of how we talk to ourselves in these high stakes scenarios. 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:38.800 And you know, because I have a background as a 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.920 voice coach, I also have found ways that the voice 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.680 solves a lot of the problems that seem like they 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.800 require all kinds of other things. But really, you know, 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.440 learning how to breathe just a little better than you 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:58.480 already are, uh, can actually change your life, you know. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.360 So that's the the thing where like when I've worked 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.360 with people from all kinds of different industries and seen 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.240 the same patterns, the same like getting them to breathe 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.480 a little bit more, getting them to realize that stuff 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.760 like vocal fry is about not taking up enough space 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.320 and trusting that what they have to say matters, the 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.880 same patterns come up with all of us, and so 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.760 the I mean, the dream for this podcast was that 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.400 we could kind of see the similarities and break them 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.240 down and say, here are some tools so that we 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.720 can break the patterns that need to be broken, and 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.960 let's do it together. I mean, I told you this 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.440 in them when I pitched this too, because it had 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.880 just happened. But the real origin story for this podcast 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.440 is that, uh So I went to Princeton undergrad and 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.320 they the crowning achievement of that was really that they 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.000 asked me to come back and speak at this women's 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.240 conference and there was like Justice Soda Mayor and Justice 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:56.120 Kagan and like you know me. You know, it was 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.000 just the lums gathered around the water cooler. There was 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.080 no water cooler, not Aton, but it was a golden 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.880 water cooler. Um. They had told me that as somebody 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.920 sort of the more creative side of things, as a 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.120 Princeton alum, they wanted me to come back and do 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.240 a workshop on the voice to a group of fifty 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.040 to a hundred women as sort of a breakout, you know, 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.440 option at this conference. And uh and I was like yeah, 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.520 and I had been working on a wonder woman at 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.520 the time. At the moment I got that call, I 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:29.439 was like in Washington, d C. On the phone with 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.599 them and they were like, what would you want to 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:31.920 call it? And I was like, how do you use 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.440 your voice to get what you want? Clearly I was 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.800 on a bit of a high. And then a week 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.000 before I flew out to do this workshop, I got 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.400 an email the four hundred and sixty people had signed 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:48.120 up for this, which and I remember just thinking like, okay, a, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:49.720 I need to actually figure out what I'm doing now. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.880 But the um, you know, if we need some market 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.800 research on who needs this help, it kind of seems 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.160 like a lot of people, you know, and um. And 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.520 then I had an hour fifteen and I had this big, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.160 you know, gorgeous like gothic building to interact with these women, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.040 and I my dream scenario really came true, which was 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.560 that the first half I did talk a lot about 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.560 these patterns, the the the tricks is maybe a word 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.120 to use that I've found that really helped people. I 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.000 have a lot of sense of like kind of psychological hacks, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.360 so that this isn't like a six month job to 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.120 find your voice. It really is like let's just talkle 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.439 that switch. Let's just in the moment right now, no drama, 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.000 no preciousness, Let's just try something new and see how 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.760 much our nervous system can actually like adjust. And I 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.680 talked about that, but the main thing that happened was 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:42.400 I had made sure that there was gonna be microphones 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.280 in the audience, and about halfway through, I was like, so, 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.680 why did you come to something about how to use 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.800 your voice to get what you want? Like what's going on? 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.640 And truly what's going on? And it was, you know, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:55.520 it was a room full of four indred plus women 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.440 of all different ages, and they looked, you know, like 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.679 they had all kinds of different life fixed variances. And 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.040 they got up and started to tell me about them. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.679 And there was like, I mean, I remember there was 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.680 like a woman who had just gotten out of college. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:09.440 She was like twenty two, I think she had just 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.280 launched a podcast and was dealing with trolling about her voice. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.720 And then there was a middle aged woman who had 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.560 a teenage daughter who was freaking out because her daughter 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.520 had up speak and like, oh god, she'll never be 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.680 taken seriously in life. And then this woman stood up 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.920 in the back of the room and she was probably 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:26.880 the oldest that you can begin and to have come 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.199 to Princeton because they didn't let in women till the seventies. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.320 And she said she's the only female board member of 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:41.240 a massive financial institution and and I'm trying to be 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.600 delicate and uh, and she said she couldn't get a 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.719 word in edgewise at meetings. And I thought this was 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.960 a good chance to sort of see if there's kind 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.320 of some group wisdom here. And I asked, like, is 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.880 anyone else here from corporate, you know, and do you 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.319 have anything that's worked? And people started to stand up 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.600 and offer suggestions. And that was really when I was like, 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.000 this is there's something here, because you know, I got 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.600 some really kind feedback afterwards about how I should do 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.000 a TED talk, and I was like, yeah, I succeeded 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:13.719 at you know, standing up on a stage and doing 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.680 all the things I teach other people to do, like 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.040 seriously check. That was awesome. But the real magic was 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.720 when people were sharing you know, quote unquote best practices 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.360 across industries, and I was like, there isn't like a 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.440 place for that. And then you know, I was on 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.319 a friend's podcast and I was like, oh God, this 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:36.520 is my media. Like that was like a month afterwards, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.720 and I was like, oh, maybe that's maybe that's what 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.880 that because I didn't know how to process what that 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.600 Princeton thing was like. That room was magical. You came 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.480 back completely just you know, a glow with what the 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.760 process that happened. And I was so moved by that 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.079 moment when I think that's when we kind of had 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.559 first met each other, and I'm I am just so 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.920 proud of you sitting here and we're doing the show. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.599 Thank you, my love. We have a mutual friend UM 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.920 named Jess who who had said to me as I 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.720 was walking out the door to go to the conference 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.560 and we were at a coworking space we're working at together, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.800 and she like, I'm literally in the door frame and 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.600 she was like, it's not a moment, it's a movement. 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.160 Thank you for that. Needed to hear that, but you 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.400 know it really, um, it really set the tone for 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.160 me that, UM, you know, my dream is that all 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.600 of us in those moments that feel scary when we 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.120 have to decide whether or not to sort of sound 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.280 like the most generic version of ourselves as possible, or 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.960 to sort of break out of that box. All of 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.960 us have to do that work on our own, but 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.280 that does not mean that we are doing it alone. 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:48.640 There is a you know, unspoken god. The words sisterhood 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.600 comes to mind. I'm sorry if that sounds so cliche 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.080 and cheesy, but there really is, and we're all dealing 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.120 with this. And one of the things that Princeton thing 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.320 taught me was that one of the ways in which 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.400 we're conditioned is to think that all of this vocal 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.880 drama we have, like I can't get heard or I 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.320 don't like the way I sound, or I sound too girly, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.640 or I sound not cool and millennial enough, or I 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:16.679 sound you know, too foreign, or I sound to anything. Um. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.600 We often mistake that for being something that's happening only 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.160 to us, and that we're alone in this little silo 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:27.000 that sucks. And the real lesson is we're all in 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.360 this together. So but I will say, I know it's 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.720 about a sisterhood, and we're about it's about feminism, and 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.200 it's about the female voice here. But what I think 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.160 this podcast brings to the table, and Jack, maybe you 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.400 can weigh in on this too, if we let you 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:44.280 speak um um, is that this podcast is helpful for men, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.960 for women, for whoever and wherever you are. And I 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.680 really feel strongly about that. Yeah, I mean, look at 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.640 somebody who's married to a straight white man. I can attest. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:15:01.560 I cannot I And I have, you know, a little 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.440 boy who I don't know what his you know, sexual 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.160 orientation is yet, but you know, I'm raising a white 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.120 boy and I think about that a lot. And UM, 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.920 I have to say this as somebody who still works 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.440 primarily in Hollywood, I'm working with all kinds of people 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:22.520 who feel like outsiders. They're gay, they're people of color, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:27.440 they're people in toxic masculinity recovery, as I call it, allies. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.120 We're trying to figure out how to stand up for 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.280 the right people at the right time, despite their privilege. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.800 So this is really work for everybody. And part of 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.680 my work that feels like it's sort of advocacy as 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.720 well as just speech work is in trying to change 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.400 the world in terms of how much we can reveal ourselves. 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.920 And it continued to be something that gets us more power, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.880 not less and be safe or not less safe. My background, 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.720 you know, before running this podcast network was running a 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.920 website with hundreds of writers, and even in in the 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:06.840 written word. I was surprised, as a straight white man, oblivious, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:12.320 straight white man, that whenever there was a byline that 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.960 suggested the writer was a woman, it would get at 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:22.480 least two the scrutiny, the negative feedback just brutalized in 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.760 the comments section. Um. And then I started seeing it 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.120 happen with you know, the most talented comedians that I 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.360 worked with on this network. There would just be scrutiny 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.320 of their voice. Part of what I'm interested in is 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:41.120 saying like that is not necessarily inevitable. I mean, I 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.480 hope our society continues to change, but if it is inevitable, 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.560 if it is, just like there is maybe an additional 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.440 struggle the further you are as a human from like 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.400 the straight white male archetype, if there is that additional 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.360 struggle to be heard, to be understood, to be taken seriously, 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.440 let's just acknowledge that, and then let's make that struggle 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.840 be as I mean, joyful is the word that comes 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.920 to mind, and I don't mean to minimize people's experience, 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.280 but let's just make that something that's shine a light 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:09.639 on that, the same way we're shining a light in 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.280 the voice. It just is an additional challenge to be 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.560 understood if you don't look like the archetype of power. 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.439 And yeah, okay, great, we acknowledged it. Now what do 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.359 we do? Yes? And you know, what we're really talking 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.880 about is like, wouldn't it be amazing if we could 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.359 all just be ourselves? And you know, life is really 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.040 complicated in American is really complicated. And I don't think 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.119 it's responsible as a communication coach to tell people be 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:44.120 yourself by you know, because there really are less safe spaces. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.200 But I do think that it is my job to 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.920 encourage my clients to be as brave as possible about 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.160 pushing on the edges, like what are the assumptions that 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.000 actually can fall down? I will say from my own 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.320 experience that tomorrow you have helped to coach me, But 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.080 you continue to help coach me as I get deeper 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.400 into being a producer and owning my own company and 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.680 you know, to a place where I am so excited 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.480 and happy to be. It takes more practice to be 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.760 able to continue the longevity with that. What you reminded 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.480 me of, thank you for that couty you reminded me 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.800 of also is that like very obviously we can all 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.080 we can all say that when we talk about the voice, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.679 we're talking about the literal voice, which we don't often 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.880 you know, shine a light on, like as somebody who 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.640 has a background in dialect coaching, I'm I can think 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.359 about you know, avowal and a consonant sound, you know, 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.879 like breaking breaking down the voice into the most micro units. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.840 But I'm also talking about the metaphorical voice. How we 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.800 stand up for ourselves, how we stand up for our communities, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.159 for people that don't have a voice. And so what 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.879 I'm finding for myself, for you, for our friends, for 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:55.960 you know, everybody who's sort of on a journey of 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.800 trying to become the best version of themselves in public. Uh, 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.080 there are little things that we can do up top 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.440 to sort of like let go some of our old 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.200 tricks that aren't working anymore. But then there's like next 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.480 level ship And that's what's been coming up with some 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.199 of my guests too, that you guys are gonna be 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.159 hearing from, is like, you know, yeah, it's all well 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:15.760 and good to be like I found my voice, and 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.639 then life gets harder and you have more power and 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.879 suddenly you have to say no more and how do 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.879 you say no in a way that continues to help you, 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:25.960 quote unquote get what you want well? And so a 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.080 lot of our guests that come on, we have people 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.280 from scientists to celebrities to mindfulness experts. But I think 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.080 what is important you've said up before, your voice is 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:39.080 connected to your heart and to your brain equally, and 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.800 I'm excited to explore that with you on this show. Jack, 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:47.479 Do you have anything to see Your job, just in 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:52.320 general is something I didn't know existed. Uh that, Like 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.560 I thought a voice coach was the person who hits 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.119 the button on the NBC show and like turns around 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.120 and I didn't know that there have a job. Yeah 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.080 for it And I'm so waiting to hear back. But well, 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:07.840 now you're in competition with me, and I'm going to 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.880 lower my voice to um. But I would just love 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.840 for the listeners to hear just a little bit more 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.399 about all the different ways that you work with people. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:21.760 I've been thinking back on the threat of this, but 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.880 it was like, I don't know, seven years ago or something, 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.320 and I found out about this organization on the East 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.960 Coast called the Alan All the Center for Communicating Science, 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.680 and my dad's a scientist, and I was like, I'm 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.240 pretty fearless in that realm as somebody who's not a scientist, 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.879 but like, you know, it doesn't get too scared of 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.760 talking to scientists about how they communicate, perhaps badly and uh. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.760 And so I got trained by them and was already 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.439 thinking like, how is what I do with actors applicable 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.720 in other industries? And then you know, I would coach 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.360 friends here and there when they would have a pitch for, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.120 you know, something major that mattered to them. And then 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:05.760 the twenty sixteen election happened, and um, I started feeling 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:10.040 like the activism I was doing in my own life 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.680 and the skill set that I had could actually coincide. 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.840 And that was a pretty new thought for me, actually, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.639 and and it ended up manifesting itself in move on 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.880 dot org finding me and having me coach a lot 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:25.840 of women who are running for office for the midterms, 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.040 and god, that was such a good experience and it 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.959 really made me realize that, you know, so much of 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.879 the um work of dialect coaching. You know, people hear 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:36.720 actors and they think, oh, I'm not an actor, so 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.680