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Speaker 1: The day I was adopted. The things that I know

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Speaker 1: were that Diane went into labor, was taken to the hospital.

3
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Speaker 1: I was told that there was a huge media frenzy outside.

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Speaker 1: So once I was born, I was told that she

5
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Speaker 1: did not hold me. But the way that she tells

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Speaker 1: it is that she spent hours with me in the

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Speaker 1: hospital holding me as a baby. So I'm not really

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Speaker 1: sure which is the right. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: which is true. I'm trying to think of the word

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to say, but I don't know. An

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Speaker 1: officer took me out the back to hide from the

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Speaker 1: media and rushed me over to a hotel nearby. That's

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Speaker 1: where my parents were waiting.

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Speaker 2: Did your adoptive parents know who you were related to?

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Speaker 1: Yes, my adoptive parents didn't know. My mom even told

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Speaker 1: me that, you know, she had or her and my

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Speaker 1: father had gone to my grandfather and was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got this child. We're very excited about it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, she is Diane Down's daughter. How do you feel?

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Speaker 1: And you know he just said she's a babcock. You know,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter where she came from, she's ours, you know,

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Speaker 1: in some in a roundabout way. My mom did tell

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about the day I was born,

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Speaker 1: and that they were waiting at that hotel room and

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Speaker 1: the officer coming through the door holding the little baby girl,

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Speaker 1: and she said that she looked down at me and

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Speaker 1: that I was perfect. You know, that didn't matter where

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Speaker 1: I came from, you know, because I'm her daughter, and

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Speaker 1: to her, I was perfect.

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Speaker 3: Dana Timms was able to confirm some of what Becky

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Speaker 3: had heard about the day she was born.

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Speaker 1: I was told that the day that I was born,

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Speaker 1: that Diane held me for a very long time, for

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours. Then I was also told that

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Speaker 1: I had to be snuck out the back of the

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Speaker 1: hospital by authorities because of the media that was out

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Speaker 1: front covering the story.

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Speaker 4: Do you know anything about that? That's probably true, although

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Speaker 4: it was you were born ten days after her conviction,

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Speaker 4: so I'm not sure that. I mean, certainly, the Lane

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Speaker 4: Kenny sheriffs didn't alert the press to say, hey, Diane's

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Speaker 4: been taken to the hospital, so if they took you

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Speaker 4: out the back, it would have been as a precaution,

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Speaker 4: not that there was a row of TV camera set

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Speaker 4: up there. Okay, but yeah, I think she held you

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Speaker 4: for maybe even longer than two hours, and she let

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Speaker 4: Doug Welch, one of the Lenkheady Sheriff's detectives, hold you also.

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Speaker 4: I'll say also that during the trial, as she was

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Speaker 4: sort of continuing to get fuller, as her pregnancy was

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Speaker 4: moving along, she was constantly it was hands on her belly,

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Speaker 4: and it was sort of like she had a little

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Speaker 4: partner every day who was helping bring her strength in

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Speaker 4: a tough situation. Definitely got the feeling that she was

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Speaker 4: holding you all that time.

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Speaker 3: The idea of Diane's court room pregnancy and subsequent birth

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Speaker 3: after conviction were perhaps an important part of Becky's own

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Speaker 3: experience to come. She experienced pregnancy and her teens, and

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Speaker 3: the experience wasn't easy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I begged them, I said, please don't tell

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Speaker 1: my dad, you know, he can't let me at least

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Speaker 1: tell him that I'm pregnant, you know. And they ended

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Speaker 1: up telling him. And I talked to my dad later

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Speaker 1: about it. I was like, I asked them not to

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Speaker 1: tell you. He's like, you're a minor, like so, and

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Speaker 1: that's how I phrased it. I knew something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: There was a reason you were not at boot camp,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so he's like, that's how we found out.

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Speaker 2: You must have been going through so many emotions.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I remember I was just crying and

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Speaker 1: it got to the point where nobody was telling me anything.

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Speaker 1: At MEP's in Portland, I just left. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to boot camp obviously, I can't just

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Speaker 1: sit here and do nothing. And I left and I

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Speaker 1: went back to where I was staying, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: sat down on the couch next to Christians biological father

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Speaker 1: and sat there for a while in silence. Then I

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Speaker 1: looked over at him and I'm like, I'm pregnant. He says,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 5: That was it.

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Speaker 1: We sat there for like an hour, just silent, and

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Speaker 1: later on I asked him, I'm like, what do you mean,

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Speaker 1: how did you know? He's like, because you're back.

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Speaker 3: Becky's second pregnancy was initially planned with her then boyfriend,

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Speaker 3: a different man from her first pregnancy. She loved him

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Speaker 3: and they wanted a child together. Unfortunately, things began to

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Speaker 3: fall apart and the situation became difficult.

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Speaker 1: It was a high risk of pregnancy. I was bedridden

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Speaker 1: for most of it. I didn't want to give up

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Speaker 1: on our family. So I ended up staying in a

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Speaker 1: homeless shelter because they couldn't work, and he went back

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Speaker 1: to his ex and they just they were awful. They

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Speaker 1: just kept telling me, you know, that they were going

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Speaker 1: to take him from me, or they were going to

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Speaker 1: have the state take him from me, and it's all

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Speaker 1: these horrible things things whereas I'm here in Clement Falls

96
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Speaker 1: trying to make our family work, and it didn't. So

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Speaker 1: I called my parents, you know, and I asked for help.

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Speaker 3: Becky's parents agreed to take her in and help take

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Speaker 3: care of her during the pregnancy, but on the condition

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Speaker 3: that she consider adoption.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't decide until I was eight months pregnant

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Speaker 1: that adoption was what was going to be best. I

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Speaker 1: fought it, I really, I tried so hard to get

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Speaker 1: everything right in my life just so that I could

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Speaker 1: keep him. But in about eight months I had to

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Speaker 1: just accept that I couldn't. And so we got a

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Speaker 1: hold of the adoption agency and they brought all these

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Speaker 1: folders of families, just family after family after family, and

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Speaker 1: I just remember going through the pages and just thinking,

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Speaker 1: like these people cannot raise my child. Is you know,

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Speaker 1: this isn't the right place for him. I had to

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Speaker 1: pick somewhere that was perfect. And in one of the

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Speaker 1: very last folders that I got were the ones they

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Speaker 1: had already had a son and they just couldn't have

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Speaker 1: children together. So that was who I chose, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I met them and they they were just amazing.

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Speaker 3: Letting go wasn't easy for Becky. In many ways, giving

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Speaker 3: up her second child mirror Diane's own experience with her,

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Speaker 3: but Becky was able to control the narrative. As difficult

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Speaker 3: as the situation was, she was able to ensure that

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Speaker 3: he went to a family who would love him.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even hold him for very long, and they

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Speaker 1: just had to take him because I didn't let go.

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Speaker 1: So they took him and the family was in a

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Speaker 1: room close by, and they spent those first two days

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Speaker 1: in the hospital with them. You know how mom stays

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Speaker 1: in the first.

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Speaker 6: Day ought to do that.

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Speaker 1: I had to go home and recover, And two days

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Speaker 1: later I get a call from the hospital. They forgot

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Speaker 1: to have me sign the adoption baby. They left those

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Speaker 1: parts out, so I actually had to go back into

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Speaker 1: the hospital and see them and see the baby and

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Speaker 1: sign over my rights. Right then, after two days of

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Speaker 1: just misery because I gave my child away. It was

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Speaker 1: the hardest moment of my life. But he is with

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Speaker 1: an amazing family. He's doing so great. I get pictures

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Speaker 1: every year on his birthday, and you know, it's an

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Speaker 1: open adoption. But at this point, I feel that I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna wait until he's ready to find me. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to push myself into his life. And they didn't

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Speaker 1: hide that he was adopted, so you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: when he's ready, or if he's ever ready, he'll find me.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps thinking back on her own situation and her curiosity

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Speaker 3: about her own biological parents that could consider whether or

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Speaker 3: not the son she gave up for adoption would one

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Speaker 3: day wonder about her and who she was, so she

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Speaker 3: made sure he would have the answers if he ever

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Speaker 3: wanted them.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I wrote him a letter and gave it

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Speaker 1: to the parents to give him when he was old

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Speaker 1: enough to just. I remember writing it when I had

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Speaker 1: decided to put him up when I get my apartment,

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Speaker 1: and I just I wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote,

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Speaker 1: and the thing probably was ten pages long, and and

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Speaker 1: I just realized that I need to, you know, short

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Speaker 1: and sweet, just just a letter to know, let him

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Speaker 1: know that I loved him, and then I was really

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Speaker 1: doing what I thought was best. I'm terrified that he

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Speaker 1: may think bad of me, that he thinks that he

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Speaker 1: was unloved, or that he was unwanted or didn't have

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Speaker 1: that connection, because you know, he was part of my heart.

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Speaker 3: Shortly after this difficult experience, Becky reached out to Diane

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Speaker 3: for the first time.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember what you wrote, did Diane?

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Speaker 1: I think it was pretty general. The first letter, you know,

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Speaker 1: said that I think I'm a near biological daughter. Here's

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Speaker 1: my day to birth time, and here's what I look like,

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Speaker 1: just all the basics.

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Speaker 2: And then when you reached out to her, this was

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Speaker 2: only because you just had your son up for adoption.

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Speaker 2: He he is now in the picture of with another family.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct correct?

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Speaker 3: We've spoken about the nature of their correspondence in an

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Speaker 3: earlier episode, but the letters immediately devolved into Diane attacking

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Speaker 3: Becky for wanting to know about her biological father, and

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Speaker 3: over the years, Diane has continued to deny that Becky

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Speaker 3: is her daughter. Diane recently went so far as to

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Speaker 3: claim that Becky could be a disinherited niece out to

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Speaker 3: con Diane out of Amy's inheritance. I've corresponded with Diane

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Speaker 3: through emails, and she is somehow has flipped it to

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Speaker 3: that you're not her biological daughter. Amy is somewhere out

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Speaker 3: there and she hasn't reconnected with Amy, and she only

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Speaker 3: uses Amy as the name of that little girl, which

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Speaker 3: is you.

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Speaker 2: How does that make you feel?

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Speaker 4: Hearing the name Aim?

188
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Speaker 2: How does that make you feel?

189
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Speaker 3: Uh?

190
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Speaker 1: Is about the same as hearing the Hungry like Wolf song.

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Speaker 1: It just kind of sense chills up your spine a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I don't identify with it because I don't.

193
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Speaker 1: It doesn't fit me. I don't feel like it's my name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

195
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Speaker 1: In the letters, when she started with her conspiracy theories

196
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Speaker 1: and you know, really getting into stories that I just

197
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Speaker 1: didn't want to hear, and I asked her to stop

198
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Speaker 1: writing me. Is when she decided that I wasn't her daughter,

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Speaker 1: I am assuming because I rejected her. I asked her

200
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Speaker 1: to stop writing me. And at that point then I

201
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 1: was the enemy as well, and she decided that I

202
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Speaker 1: was the one who was after her, and I didn't

203
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Speaker 1: want to feed into that, so I didn't continue conversating.

204
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Speaker 3: There's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to suggest that

205
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Speaker 3: Becky is Diane's daughter, but the only way to remove

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Speaker 3: any lingering doubts Becky might is through DNA. For this,

207
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Speaker 3: we check back in with Michelle Leonard, the DNA detective.

208
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Speaker 3: With both Becky as well as Diane's brother James, having

209
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Speaker 3: submitted samples, Michelle is finally able to start putting together

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Speaker 3: the pieces of the larger puzzle.

211
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Speaker 6: So with Becky's ancestry results, you get two main components.

212
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Speaker 6: You get an ethnicity estimate, and you get the DNA

213
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Speaker 6: match list. And I'm sitting here looking at Becky's results

214
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Speaker 6: page at the moment, and I'm going to open up

215
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Speaker 6: her ethnicity estimate and I'm going to go through what

216
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Speaker 6: that tells us. So first up, so it's telling us

217
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Speaker 6: that Becky is forty six percent Germanic Europe, forty two

218
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Speaker 6: percent England, Wales and Northwestern Europe, five percent Eastern Europe

219
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Speaker 6: and Russia four percent Norway three percent Baltics.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. I was told that I have Danish ancestry.

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Speaker 6: One of the other things I've done in preparation for

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Speaker 6: the case is I've built a tree out for your

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Speaker 6: maternal side, but your Frederickson line goes back to Denmark

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Speaker 6: came over to the United States after your great great grandfather,

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Speaker 6: Christian Peter Fredrickson, who was born in eighteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 6: So he was the immigrant who came to the United

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Speaker 6: States and died in South Dakota.

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Speaker 7: What I think is interesting, just right off the top,

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Speaker 7: is you said Frederickson line that confirms that Becky is

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Speaker 7: in fact the biological daughter of Diane.

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Speaker 6: Downs absolutely one. Yeah, there's there's no doubt about that whatsoever.

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Speaker 6: That is definite, especially since Diane's brother has also taken

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Speaker 6: a test and Becky matches him exactly as you would

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Speaker 6: expect for an uncle niece relationship, So there's no mystery

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Speaker 6: as to the maternal side.

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Speaker 7: Becky, how do you feel about that, because there has

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Speaker 7: been speculation and doubt, especially from Diane herself, saying that

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Speaker 7: you weren't her daughter.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, Diane has denied I'm her biological daughter

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Speaker 1: for a really long time. In her very first letter,

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Speaker 1: she was excited to have me as her daughter, but

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Speaker 1: then you know, it quickly went to I was not

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Speaker 1: her daughter, and ever since then she has believed that

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Speaker 1: I'm not her biological daughter. So I mean those results

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Speaker 1: are super huge for me. That's every emotion you can

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Speaker 1: think of is what I feel. I have seen my

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Speaker 1: adopted birth certificate, but I've never had this kind of proof,

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Speaker 1: like this is zero doubt I am her biological daughter,

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Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of stipulation out there and

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Speaker 1: people weren't quite sure if I was that child that

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Speaker 1: you know, she was pregnant with when she was on trial,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know. It just kind of shows that

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Speaker 1: it's real.

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Speaker 3: Zecky's maternal line established and having finally received confirmation that

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Speaker 3: she is in fact Diane's biological daughter, Becky's next question,

256
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Speaker 3: and perhaps to her, the most important, is to begin

257
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Speaker 3: tracing the paternal line. In order to do that, Michelle

258
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Speaker 3: has to begin by building a family tree.

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Speaker 6: I want to know who your maternal ancestors are because

260
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Speaker 6: that helps me with eliminating DNA matches that result from

261
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Speaker 6: your maternal side. So that's why I've built out a

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00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,359
Speaker 6: maternal tree to help me with doing that, and basically

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00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,840
Speaker 6: with outside of the Danish ancestors, that just shows that

264
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 6: your maternal ancestry has been in the United States in general,

265
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Speaker 6: in most lines for a number of generations. The longer

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Speaker 6: that the lines have been in the United States, the

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Speaker 6: more DNA matches you tend to get to them, which

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Speaker 6: is another thing that is important to know about when

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Speaker 6: you're trying to work out the DNA. So if we

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Speaker 6: go back to the ethnicity side of things, we've obviously

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Speaker 6: got this forty six percent Germanic Europe showing up and

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Speaker 6: this little bit Eastern Europe and Russia. The little bit

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Speaker 6: that's categorizes Norway might well be the Danish the Germanic Europe.

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Speaker 6: If you can look at the map, it covers quite

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Speaker 6: a large area which takes in the likes of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg,

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Speaker 6: Belgium and the Netherlands. So it's quite clear you have

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Speaker 6: some strong and a large amount of ancestry from this

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Speaker 6: part of Europe. From your ethnicity estimate.

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Speaker 1: Well that makes sense. I mean I'm five nine and

280
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Speaker 1: blonde hair, green eyes, and yeah, yeah, like I'm from

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Speaker 1: that region.

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Speaker 3: As Michean Packspecky's estimated ethnicities, she warns that they're accurate

283
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Speaker 3: to some extent, but they don't give much detail at

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Speaker 3: a micro level.

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Speaker 6: It does make sense in those terms, yes, and the

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Speaker 6: looking down the rest of it obviously there's the forty

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Speaker 6: two percent England, Wales and northwestern Europe. I suspect that

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Speaker 6: quite a lot of that is your maternal side, those

289
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Speaker 6: American lines that have maybe come over from England, Wales,

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Speaker 6: et cetera further back in time. I always say, don't

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Speaker 6: read too much into the ethnicity estimate as a whole.

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Speaker 6: It's very interesting to see, especially when you have one

293
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Speaker 6: side of your ancestry that's unknown. It can really give

294
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Speaker 6: you a clue as to the direction to look in,

295
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Speaker 6: but it's never going to solve the case, and there's

296
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Speaker 6: always going to be, you know, things that aren't quite

297
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 6: right with ethnicity estimates as well. I say, they're generally

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Speaker 6: accurate to the continental level, but when you try to

299
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 6: drill them down further to country level, it's much more

300
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Speaker 6: difficult to do, and they have to be taken with

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Speaker 6: a bit of a pinch of salt.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, Michelle believes that even with the

303
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Speaker 3: information she has currently and with a few more database emissions,

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Speaker 3: she will be able to trace Becky's paternity.

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Speaker 1: So do you think we're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: solve the mystery?

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Speaker 6: I really do think we are the key, However, to

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Speaker 6: solving the mystery. Isn't the ethnicity estimate. Like I say,

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Speaker 6: it can give us a clue, and that bit about

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Speaker 6: the Germanic Europe is interesting, but it's not going to

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Speaker 6: tell us who your biological father is. The key are

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Speaker 6: the DNA matches.

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Speaker 1: His DNA is not on file, then he's not submitted.

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Speaker 6: No, you don't have a parent match, which is, as

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00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 6: I say, not at all unusual. The vast majority of

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Speaker 6: people looking for a birth parent when they take a

317
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 6: DNA test will not find that birth parent has already tested.

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Speaker 6: If you will, and they're very lucky. If they do

319
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 6: it easier, it does make it easier, but most don't.

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Speaker 6: So Obviously, your top match is your maternal uncle, and

321
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 6: you're sharing a lot of DNA with him, nearly seventeen

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Speaker 6: hundred centi morgans as we call it. And that's a

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00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,159
Speaker 6: really significant amount of DNA, exactly the right amount to

324
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Speaker 6: be sharing with a full uncle.

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Speaker 3: But it turns out that James isn't Becky's only high

326
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Speaker 3: level match.

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Speaker 6: However, with that amount of DNA, there are a number

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Speaker 6: of different relationships that you could have with someone, and

329
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 6: your second highest match is sharing We are fifteen hundred

330
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 6: cent of Morgans with you.

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Speaker 1: So, so what is that? That another and her uncle?

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Speaker 6: So this is a female match. This person is either

333
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Speaker 6: a grandmother, a full aunt, or a half sibling. She

334
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,160
Speaker 6: is one of those three relationships. Now at this point

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Speaker 6: we don't know which. But she's what I call a

336
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 6: jackpop match, and she does not match your maternal uncle. Therefore,

337
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Speaker 6: given the size of the match, and given how closely

338
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 6: related he is to you, she is most definitely a

339
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:41,199
Speaker 6: paternal match. Either a paternal grandmother, a paternal aunt, or

340
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,880
Speaker 6: a paternal half sibling, half sister. She's one of those.

341
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Speaker 6: It is. It's very exciting. There are caveats though.

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Speaker 3: Even though there is a high level match, there are

343
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Speaker 3: obstacles in the way. Not all users on DNA databases,

344
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 3: even those that appear to be relatives as matches, are

345
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Speaker 3: easy to track down, nor do they always want to be.

346
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Speaker 6: She has no tree, and she has a user name

347
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 6: that is quite privatized. And I have tried everything I

348
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 6: could think of to see if this concoction of letters

349
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 6: and numbers has been used by somebody somewhere that I

350
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,080
Speaker 6: could identify who this person is, and it hasn't. They've

351
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 6: been very smart and maintaining their privacy on the site

352
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 6: with the name that they've used. The one thing that

353
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 6: I can tell from it is that she is not

354
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Speaker 6: a grandmother. She's not your paternal grandmother, simply because I'm

355
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 6: able to look at all of the matches that she

356
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 6: has and she's clearly matching to, you know, both sides

357
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 6: of your paternal ancestry, and not just one. So that

358
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 6: suggests to me that we can narrow her down to

359
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 6: being either your paternal aunt or half sister. So she's

360
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 6: one of those two relationships with you.

361
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Speaker 3: Michall also cautions against the natural tendency that many of

362
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,159
Speaker 3: us would have in the situation.

363
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 6: A lot of people when they see such a jackpot match,

364
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 6: the very first thing they're going to want to do

365
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 6: is fire off a message to that person. It's human nature,

366
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 6: and it's normal to want to do that, and in

367
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 6: many cases it's the right thing to do, and then

368
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 6: some it's not. At this point in time, we don't

369
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 6: know if she's a paternal aunt, we don't know if

370
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 6: she's a paternal half sister, and contact is the most

371
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 6: delicate thing that we're going to be doing with this situation.

372
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 6: It could be that she is your birth father's daughter.

373
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 6: It could be she's his sister, but either way, we're

374
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 6: not going straight to the source. If we message her

375
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 6: and we give her this information and then she goes

376
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Speaker 6: to him, whether he's her brother or he's her father,

377
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 6: and says, dad or brother, what's this? Who's this person?

378
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 5: What do you know?

379
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 6: And maybe nothing, and maybe he knows something, and maybe

380
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 6: that puts him in a very difficult situation, and that

381
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 6: makes him less likely to want to have contact because

382
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 6: we've gone through his family and not given him the

383
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 6: opportunity to tell them himself, if you know what I mean.

384
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 3: There have been some speculation that Becky's father may not

385
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: know his identity, but there are a number of things

386
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 3: that indicate that he very likely does, in fact know

387
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 3: that Becky exists.

388
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 6: So I think that it's best to hang back from

389
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 6: making that contact with her at this point in time

390
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 6: until I've at least until I've done a full evaluation.

391
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 6: I might be able to identify her through her more

392
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 6: distant relatives. I might be able to identify who her

393
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 6: father or her brother is. And if that's possible, then

394
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 6: you always want to go straight to the birth person,

395
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 6: the birth parents, if at all possible, because that gives

396
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 6: them the opportunity then to tell their family if they

397
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 6: want to do that. Of course, it might be that

398
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 6: we'd no, we get to that point and we get

399
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 6: no reply, and then we can always go back and

400
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 6: try contacting her at that point.

401
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: That's one thing that I'm a little bit nervous about

402
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,719
Speaker 1: is the contact if he is alive, because I've been

403
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: public with my story for ten years and he has

404
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: not contacted me. I'm worried that he may not want

405
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: to contact me, he may not know he's my biological father,

406
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: or he's deceased. So it's I am very nervous about

407
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: that first contact.

408
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 7: I think with you, Becky, I've been thinking about that

409
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 7: as well, how public you've been over the last ten years.

410
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 7: And then also as I was digging in a little

411
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 7: bit more about what Anne Rule has reported on.

412
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 8: Her contact with your birth father.

413
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 5: If that's in fact true, I don't have any reason

414
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 5: to doubt she's lying.

415
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 7: But if it is true that she did have contact.

416
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 8: With your birth father and she made a deal with.

417
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: Him, he would know then that Diane Brown's you know,

418
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 5: obviously had a child and that he has a child

419
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 5: with her, you know, I'm not a man, so I

420
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 5: don't know if there's shame that he We don't know

421
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 5: the circumstances how he came into the position of being

422
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 5: with Diane intimately, if that was as it's been quoted

423
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 5: in books and resources, is that he was duped into

424
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 5: this affair or whether he went into it willingly. But

425
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 5: I could imagine this is somewhat shameful to know that

426
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 5: he he had sex with a convicted child killer.

427
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: It's just the same as it's shameful to be the daughter.

428
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: You know.

429
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: Several names have floated for who Becky's father might be,

430
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 3: but with annerl's use him in alias, his real name

431
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: may have died with her. No one else seems to

432
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 3: know exactly who he might be.

433
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 5: So what's interesting, Michelle, is that everybody has a theory

434
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 5: who Becky's father is, So any theories.

435
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I spoke to the nanny. She had the

436
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 7: theory it was a defense attorney, which is ruled out,

437
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 7: so that's not the case. But everybody speculates who had

438
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 7: this access on a daily basis with Diane that could

439
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 7: be potentially the father based on what I have researched

440
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 7: and Rull gave the statement that she made a deal

441
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 7: that she would use his story in the book but

442
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 7: change his name, you know, make a pen name for him,

443
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 7: and then also changes profession, which she changes profession in

444
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 7: the book to teacher. But then interesting enough, when we.

445
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 8: Talked to reporters, they all said, we heard it was

446
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 8: a local reporter. And there's so many people who are

447
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 8: attached to this case that want to know the results

448
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 8: and are curious in a different fashion to Becky.

449
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 6: I mean, I always say the proof is in the DNA. Yeah.

450
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 6: The problem with what you've got You've got a jackpop match,

451
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 6: and at the same time you you've got the unlucky

452
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 6: status of being from almost certainly from very recent immigrants,

453
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 6: which means that there are less DNA matches to work with.

454
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 6: Like I said, the vast majority of your matches are maternal.

455
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 6: That you know, sort of issue of oh, we've got

456
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 6: fewer matches to work with, yet at the same time

457
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 6: we've got the jackpot match.

458
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 3: Michelle plans to die far beyond the DNA results and

459
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: using whatever name she's able to find, she'll build a

460
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 3: paternal family tree bit by bit until she's able to

461
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 3: solidify the identities of Becky's closest relatives on her father's side.

462
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 6: And next, what I want to do is a full

463
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 6: evaluation of the paternal matches that she does have. I

464
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 6: want to build their trees. I want to try and

465
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 6: find their connections, and of course the fact that it

466
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 6: is recent immigration from countries like Poland and the Ukraine

467
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 6: does make that more difficult. But I will try my

468
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 6: very best to build these people back to their ancestors

469
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 6: and see if I can find connections. And if I

470
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: can do that, I might be able to solve it

471
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 6: through these more distant matches. It just depends how lucky

472
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 6: we are with them and how possible it is to

473
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 6: build the trees back and find the connections, and at

474
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 6: that point we can make a decision on contacting the

475
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 6: jackpot match, or if I've been lucky, that maybe contacting

476
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 6: the birth father himself. So that's why I'm saying, hold

477
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 6: off on any contact with the high match at the

478
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 6: moment until I've done this.

479
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: Having been through this scenario many times with others, there's

480
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: an approach Michelle recommends for those who may be contacting

481
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: possible family members for the first time.

482
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 6: I say, you know, you have to do it. Very cautiously.

483
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 6: You don't want to barrel in there telling them your

484
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 6: life story. In a first message. You have to gauge

485
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 6: what they may know and what they may be willing

486
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 6: to how you know, when you make a first contact,

487
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 6: you have to make it short. You want to say,

488
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 6: you know, hey, we have a close match, but you

489
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 6: don't want to say, oh, I think I'm your daughter,

490
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 6: or I think I'm your sister, or you know, you

491
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 6: don't want to go into that detail, just you know,

492
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 6: are you know, are you interested in exploring our match?

493
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 6: Is there anything you could tell me about your ancestry?

494
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 6: General questions?

495
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 7: You know.

496
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 6: I think one of the worst mistakes is if you're

497
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 6: looking for a birth parent and you instantly see you

498
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 6: have half siblings, or you have aunts or you know,

499
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 6: first cousins, people that are close to that man, and

500
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 6: you know you've worked out who he is, but you

501
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 6: instead go on Facebook and message his daughter, because then

502
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 6: you might be opening up a can of worms that

503
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 6: leads you to alienating the person that you're trying to

504
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 6: get in contact with before you've even managed to speak

505
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 6: to them. And going about these things the right way

506
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 6: doesn't always result in a positive outcome. If you can

507
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 6: possibly get to the birth parent themselves. Always you want

508
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 6: to do that.

509
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking it's funny that all of your don't

510
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: do is when contacting is exactly what I did. When

511
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: I contacted i Am, I said, I think I'm weird daughter.

512
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: I told her my entire life story, and I think

513
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: I overwhelmed her. You know, it was just like I was.

514
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: I was kind of excited to contact her, which is weird,

515
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: I know, but you know, it's still where I come from.

516
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: And so I got a little over excited when I

517
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: wrote my letter.

518
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 6: And it's it's It's natural, isn't it to get over

519
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 6: excited contacting someone who's so closely related to you, And

520
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 6: what's right for one person isn't right for another. And

521
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 6: I always say keep the first, you know, contact sure

522
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 6: and gender. But when they if they come back and

523
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 6: they're super interested and they're telling you their life story,

524
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 6: you know, then get into it because you know obviously

525
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 6: there's they want to hear it. And of course I'm

526
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 6: talking from the perspective of finding people as a DNA

527
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 6: match and not from having adoption papers and the like,

528
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 6: and knowing this person is supposedly your birth parent. My

529
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 6: first thought isn't let's fire off a message to her

530
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 6: straight away. I want to do some more digging and

531
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 6: find out if I can work out who she is

532
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 6: and maybe work from her to get to your birth parent.

533
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: With the Jackpop match of Becky's paternal side, discovering the

534
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: identity of Becky's father seems likely in many ways. Finding

535
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: out would be the culmination of her journey and the

536
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: reconciliation and acceptance of who she is. The question is

537
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: whether or not her biological father will feel the same.

538
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: On the next episode of Happy Face Presents Two Face,

539
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: in a bizarre letter from Diane Downs to her post

540
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 3: conviction attorney, she completely changes her version of the events

541
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: that took place that night of the shooting and what

542
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: happens when Diana escapes from prison. Ben Bolan is our

543
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: executive producer, Melissa Moore is our co executive producer. Maya

544
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 3: Cole is our primary producer, Paul Dekant is our supervising producer,

545
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 3: Sam T. Garnian is our researcher, and Matt Riddle is

546
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: our story editor. Featured music by dream Tent. Happy Phase

547
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: Presents Two Phase is a production of iHeartRadio