1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:18,005 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Hello, Welcome to another episode of Cadaver Gals. Yes, yes, yes, 2 00:00:18,525 --> 00:00:21,645 Speaker 1: this is the podcast where we talk about death, dying, 3 00:00:21,805 --> 00:00:24,845 Speaker 1: the ways the people have died, and lately a lot 4 00:00:25,125 --> 00:00:28,085 Speaker 1: of murder. Really interesting. We do this to cope with 5 00:00:28,085 --> 00:00:32,805 Speaker 1: our immortality. Yes, I'm your host, Nika, along with Taylor 6 00:00:32,885 --> 00:00:37,565 Speaker 1: and Gabby. Do you wanna hi? Hello? I love it, 7 00:00:37,605 --> 00:00:40,805 Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. And on today's show, 8 00:00:41,085 --> 00:00:43,685 Speaker 1: Gabby is going to be hitting us with the strange 9 00:00:43,725 --> 00:00:47,365 Speaker 1: life of Diogenes and the many ways that he might 10 00:00:47,405 --> 00:00:51,125 Speaker 1: have died question mark. Yes, we are very factual over here. Also, 11 00:00:51,365 --> 00:00:54,085 Speaker 1: Taylor is going to be sharing a creepy conspiracy theory 12 00:00:54,205 --> 00:00:56,885 Speaker 1: set in the Terrifying State. I don't know what the 13 00:00:56,885 --> 00:01:04,365 Speaker 1: accent that was of Arkansas, Arkansas, Kansas, Kansas mark of ass, 14 00:01:04,405 --> 00:01:10,285 Speaker 1: the terrifying state of Today's trigger warnings include murder, gunshot, wounds, 15 00:01:10,605 --> 00:01:14,725 Speaker 1: motor accidents, and unhygienic behavior. So fun, so fun, so fun. 16 00:01:15,165 --> 00:01:18,125 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. If you're deciding to stay, this 17 00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:36,125 Speaker 1: is Cadaver Gals que song click goal, Hi everyone, we're back. 18 00:01:36,205 --> 00:01:40,485 Speaker 1: Gabby just made a super sexual joke as the theme 19 00:01:40,525 --> 00:01:44,485 Speaker 1: song was playing, And now I'm blushing. So since Gabby 20 00:01:44,485 --> 00:01:46,045 Speaker 1: says you made me uncomfortable and I'm going to sue 21 00:01:46,085 --> 00:01:48,245 Speaker 1: you for sexual harassment, um, should we go ahead and 22 00:01:48,285 --> 00:01:51,725 Speaker 1: start with your story? Yes? I can't wait to be sued. 23 00:01:51,765 --> 00:01:54,085 Speaker 1: It will be my first time, and your first time 24 00:01:54,165 --> 00:01:58,365 Speaker 1: is always the best time to be sued, So the 25 00:01:58,485 --> 00:02:03,365 Speaker 1: first time. So yeah, if you guys everything I'm inappropriate 26 00:02:03,445 --> 00:02:07,125 Speaker 1: on the air, just off the air, who knows what's happening. Well, 27 00:02:07,165 --> 00:02:09,005 Speaker 1: I think, actually this is a good tangent because I'm 28 00:02:09,005 --> 00:02:11,285 Speaker 1: going to be talking about Diogenes, who was a gross 29 00:02:11,325 --> 00:02:16,725 Speaker 1: ass motherfucker who's also hilarious and probably hot, so just 30 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:21,485 Speaker 1: like me. Honestly, Gabby, I think that you and Diogenes 31 00:02:21,525 --> 00:02:23,485 Speaker 1: could have been really good friends, like and I only 32 00:02:23,525 --> 00:02:25,565 Speaker 1: say that because I was reading more about him this 33 00:02:25,645 --> 00:02:28,365 Speaker 1: week via this really cool book. And he was kind 34 00:02:28,365 --> 00:02:31,365 Speaker 1: of like a performance artist, if you will, and some 35 00:02:31,445 --> 00:02:33,885 Speaker 1: of his philosophy was almost like slapstick, like the way 36 00:02:33,925 --> 00:02:35,485 Speaker 1: he was so committed to the bit, and I just 37 00:02:35,525 --> 00:02:38,285 Speaker 1: feel like, that's you. Yeah, he really was, because he 38 00:02:38,405 --> 00:02:40,285 Speaker 1: was like the only way we can really define our 39 00:02:40,285 --> 00:02:43,085 Speaker 1: lives or actions, So of course he would play out 40 00:02:43,085 --> 00:02:45,245 Speaker 1: the bit because you can't just like talk about shit. 41 00:02:45,365 --> 00:02:47,525 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's real. You got to actually be 42 00:02:47,525 --> 00:02:50,805 Speaker 1: beholden to what you believe in. So and what he 43 00:02:50,885 --> 00:02:54,525 Speaker 1: kind of believed in was being a gross, un hygienic 44 00:02:54,605 --> 00:02:57,325 Speaker 1: kind of person. Nika, I don't think you would be 45 00:02:57,405 --> 00:03:00,805 Speaker 1: friends with him, Taylor, I do think you might be 46 00:03:00,845 --> 00:03:04,005 Speaker 1: friends with Diogenes, just because so much of his life 47 00:03:04,165 --> 00:03:09,085 Speaker 1: is defined by either being with dogs or doglike behavior. 48 00:03:09,085 --> 00:03:12,125 Speaker 1: He was like the ultimate dog person because he just 49 00:03:12,245 --> 00:03:15,005 Speaker 1: it was like he would literally act like I love that. 50 00:03:15,165 --> 00:03:18,005 Speaker 1: So it was a little different. But Taylor, I want 51 00:03:18,045 --> 00:03:20,445 Speaker 1: this to be kind of like a cautionary tale for you, 52 00:03:21,325 --> 00:03:24,205 Speaker 1: just in case you can get too much into dogs, 53 00:03:24,245 --> 00:03:26,965 Speaker 1: Like I don't want you to become a dog, you know, 54 00:03:27,005 --> 00:03:29,885 Speaker 1: but just in case, tell me he was the first furry? 55 00:03:30,125 --> 00:03:33,565 Speaker 1: Well no, because he didn't have any possessions really, so 56 00:03:33,565 --> 00:03:35,765 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been able to like dress up. I mean, 57 00:03:36,245 --> 00:03:39,445 Speaker 1: they do love their possessions, their tales. Have you ever 58 00:03:39,485 --> 00:03:41,045 Speaker 1: tried to steal a tale from a furry? I don't 59 00:03:41,045 --> 00:03:44,965 Speaker 1: recommend it, no, have you no? But I think about 60 00:03:45,005 --> 00:03:48,565 Speaker 1: it all the time. Okay, all the time. So Diogenes 61 00:03:48,685 --> 00:03:51,405 Speaker 1: was born in somewhere between four twelve and four or 62 00:03:51,405 --> 00:03:56,405 Speaker 1: four BC TBT ancient Grecian times. Alexander the Great is 63 00:03:56,485 --> 00:03:58,645 Speaker 1: coming up. I mean he's gonna come up in like 64 00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:02,645 Speaker 1: a few decades, but he's gonna come up eventually. During 65 00:04:02,685 --> 00:04:07,405 Speaker 1: diogenes life, Soogenes was born in Sinapee, which was a 66 00:04:07,405 --> 00:04:09,365 Speaker 1: colony on the coast of the Black Sea and what 67 00:04:09,485 --> 00:04:14,165 Speaker 1: is now modern day Turkey, and he and his dad 68 00:04:14,205 --> 00:04:18,325 Speaker 1: worked in a minting factory, so kind of like not 69 00:04:18,765 --> 00:04:20,405 Speaker 1: a factory. I don't know if they had factory. They 70 00:04:20,445 --> 00:04:22,605 Speaker 1: just they were mentors. They would make the money the 71 00:04:22,685 --> 00:04:25,645 Speaker 1: currency for Sinapee. But they got run out of town 72 00:04:25,845 --> 00:04:31,565 Speaker 1: because Diogenes was accused of destroying the coinage and the 73 00:04:31,685 --> 00:04:34,365 Speaker 1: mint like he was basically I think, you know, it's 74 00:04:34,405 --> 00:04:36,445 Speaker 1: kind of like when you draw on a twenty dollar bill. 75 00:04:36,525 --> 00:04:38,485 Speaker 1: He was doing that but with the coins, just being 76 00:04:38,525 --> 00:04:40,845 Speaker 1: like ha ha haha, I'm doing this. So yeah, he's 77 00:04:40,885 --> 00:04:42,845 Speaker 1: being a bit of a troll. So one story goes 78 00:04:42,845 --> 00:04:44,485 Speaker 1: that he and his dad were run out of town 79 00:04:44,605 --> 00:04:47,125 Speaker 1: they ran over to Athens, but the other stories they 80 00:04:47,125 --> 00:04:49,685 Speaker 1: were both imprisoned and then his dad died in prison, 81 00:04:49,725 --> 00:04:53,365 Speaker 1: and then Diogenes escaped and ran off to Athens. Okay, 82 00:04:53,525 --> 00:04:55,405 Speaker 1: that was a lot that you just said. Yeah, I mean. 83 00:04:55,485 --> 00:04:57,845 Speaker 1: Diogenes thing about his life, which I think is perfect 84 00:04:57,845 --> 00:05:00,445 Speaker 1: for the show, is it's really hard to know exactly 85 00:05:00,445 --> 00:05:03,765 Speaker 1: what had happened because all of his works were either 86 00:05:03,845 --> 00:05:09,445 Speaker 1: suppressed or lost or he never wrote down anything. It's 87 00:05:09,445 --> 00:05:11,965 Speaker 1: really hard to know. So when he gets to Athens, 88 00:05:11,965 --> 00:05:14,565 Speaker 1: he goes and sees this oracle and he's like, yo, 89 00:05:15,205 --> 00:05:16,965 Speaker 1: what should I be doing with my life? And the 90 00:05:17,005 --> 00:05:21,605 Speaker 1: oracle's like, bro, you should go and like deface currency, 91 00:05:21,645 --> 00:05:23,445 Speaker 1: you know. And he's like, well, that's crazy that you 92 00:05:23,485 --> 00:05:25,485 Speaker 1: said that, but I've already done that, and I was 93 00:05:25,525 --> 00:05:27,805 Speaker 1: like it was a bad scene, So I'm going to 94 00:05:27,885 --> 00:05:31,205 Speaker 1: take this as a metaphor and deface the currency of 95 00:05:31,285 --> 00:05:34,125 Speaker 1: society instead. So that kind of became his life goal, 96 00:05:34,285 --> 00:05:38,005 Speaker 1: was like I'm going to disrupt society. So he's like, 97 00:05:38,045 --> 00:05:39,965 Speaker 1: I guess I should become a philosopher. So he's like 98 00:05:40,005 --> 00:05:43,405 Speaker 1: walking around Athens, you know, like getting rid of his possessions. 99 00:05:43,485 --> 00:05:47,125 Speaker 1: One time, he even had this clay bowl and that 100 00:05:47,205 --> 00:05:48,605 Speaker 1: was like one of his only things. But then he 101 00:05:48,645 --> 00:05:51,405 Speaker 1: saw a boy drinking water out of his like cupped hands, 102 00:05:51,405 --> 00:05:53,405 Speaker 1: and he's like, why the fuck do I have this bowl? 103 00:05:53,805 --> 00:05:55,645 Speaker 1: I could just use my hands. So he like threw 104 00:05:55,685 --> 00:05:58,245 Speaker 1: his bowl down and broke it. So yeah, he was 105 00:05:58,285 --> 00:06:01,725 Speaker 1: pretty aggressive with his beliefs and dramatic. Yeah, pretty, he 106 00:06:01,725 --> 00:06:04,365 Speaker 1: was pretty dramatic. It's like a really dramatic thing, like 107 00:06:04,445 --> 00:06:06,925 Speaker 1: why do I need a bowl? Just smash it? Yeah, 108 00:06:07,005 --> 00:06:10,365 Speaker 1: he's my hands, Like what. So he started studying under 109 00:06:10,405 --> 00:06:14,685 Speaker 1: this one guy who his name sounds like Antihistamine, so 110 00:06:14,765 --> 00:06:17,005 Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to call him. And he was 111 00:06:17,085 --> 00:06:22,045 Speaker 1: a student of Socrates. And then so Diogenes starts studying 112 00:06:22,125 --> 00:06:25,965 Speaker 1: under him, learn about philosophy and shit, and he became 113 00:06:26,485 --> 00:06:31,285 Speaker 1: one of the first cynics. And that's interesting because apparently 114 00:06:31,325 --> 00:06:34,685 Speaker 1: the origin of cynicism, Like actually the word it means 115 00:06:34,845 --> 00:06:40,285 Speaker 1: dog like, so he kind of thought dogs were superior 116 00:06:40,405 --> 00:06:44,245 Speaker 1: to men. But dogs are so hopeful. I'm like why 117 00:06:44,725 --> 00:06:47,165 Speaker 1: the cynics were thinking, like, there's no way that a 118 00:06:47,285 --> 00:06:52,325 Speaker 1: human can find happiness within civilization because civilization is unnatural. 119 00:06:52,445 --> 00:06:55,765 Speaker 1: So like what God gave you, the land, the earth, 120 00:06:55,805 --> 00:06:57,365 Speaker 1: that is the only way you can be happy. So 121 00:06:57,485 --> 00:06:59,965 Speaker 1: the further that you get away from that, then the 122 00:07:00,085 --> 00:07:02,645 Speaker 1: less happy and the less you know fulfilled life. You 123 00:07:02,645 --> 00:07:05,165 Speaker 1: can have. So that's why he revered dogs, because you know, 124 00:07:05,165 --> 00:07:06,685 Speaker 1: they just do whatever the funk they want. You know, 125 00:07:06,725 --> 00:07:09,085 Speaker 1: they poop on the street, they eat whatever food. They're 126 00:07:09,125 --> 00:07:12,605 Speaker 1: just like living their lives. You know, they're living their 127 00:07:12,645 --> 00:07:14,565 Speaker 1: best lives. Yeah, and he's like they don't have the 128 00:07:14,645 --> 00:07:17,405 Speaker 1: anxiety of society and shit, So like, I respect the 129 00:07:17,405 --> 00:07:20,885 Speaker 1: shit out of these doggies. Okay. He even went so 130 00:07:20,925 --> 00:07:24,805 Speaker 1: far as to start behaving like a dog. He didn't 131 00:07:24,805 --> 00:07:28,445 Speaker 1: really like people, can you believe it. And the only 132 00:07:28,445 --> 00:07:30,165 Speaker 1: time he would like really interact with people is he 133 00:07:30,165 --> 00:07:32,365 Speaker 1: would go to the like the Grecian Games, like the 134 00:07:32,365 --> 00:07:35,845 Speaker 1: Olympics and the other like tournaments like that. People would 135 00:07:35,845 --> 00:07:38,245 Speaker 1: make fun of him because he was like so unkempt, 136 00:07:38,725 --> 00:07:41,045 Speaker 1: like he was just like really dirty, and people would 137 00:07:41,045 --> 00:07:42,525 Speaker 1: call him a dog, but he would take it as 138 00:07:42,565 --> 00:07:45,125 Speaker 1: a compliment. One time, people were saying, you're a dog, 139 00:07:45,165 --> 00:07:48,125 Speaker 1: and then he just started like defecating at the games, 140 00:07:48,285 --> 00:07:51,525 Speaker 1: you know. Okay. He was very proud that he didn't 141 00:07:51,605 --> 00:07:54,325 Speaker 1: belong to like a state and didn't have a home 142 00:07:54,325 --> 00:07:57,765 Speaker 1: and didn't have possessions. But he did eventually acquire a home, 143 00:07:57,845 --> 00:08:02,005 Speaker 1: and his home was just this giant clay jar that 144 00:08:02,085 --> 00:08:04,525 Speaker 1: you could you know, put wine or olive oil or whatever. 145 00:08:04,605 --> 00:08:07,325 Speaker 1: And so he slept in a jar, like a big 146 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:12,605 Speaker 1: old play jar. Yeah, he did a lot of bizarre things. 147 00:08:12,725 --> 00:08:16,245 Speaker 1: He would walk around the city, like not wearing clothes. 148 00:08:16,645 --> 00:08:18,245 Speaker 1: But he did have this one lamp that he would 149 00:08:18,285 --> 00:08:20,325 Speaker 1: carry around and he would stick it in people's faces 150 00:08:20,325 --> 00:08:22,445 Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm looking for a real man and 151 00:08:22,485 --> 00:08:25,005 Speaker 1: he couldn't find one, because you know, that was his 152 00:08:25,045 --> 00:08:28,125 Speaker 1: commentary on society, that everyone is superficial and all these 153 00:08:28,165 --> 00:08:31,405 Speaker 1: like the things that we do, like our societal norms, 154 00:08:31,565 --> 00:08:34,365 Speaker 1: like our behaviors are rituals and shit, and all of 155 00:08:34,405 --> 00:08:37,165 Speaker 1: that is dumb. And he thinks that we are more 156 00:08:37,245 --> 00:08:39,365 Speaker 1: disconnected from like who we really are when we have 157 00:08:39,405 --> 00:08:43,005 Speaker 1: all these like our cultural behaviors and stuff. So he 158 00:08:43,165 --> 00:08:48,045 Speaker 1: was just like very anti establishment, you know. Good for him, Yeah, 159 00:08:48,165 --> 00:08:51,565 Speaker 1: good for him sleeping in his clay jar. Yeah. And 160 00:08:51,645 --> 00:08:56,165 Speaker 1: also saw Diogenes like really hated Plato and one time 161 00:08:56,685 --> 00:08:59,325 Speaker 1: he was kind of making fun of Plato's definition of 162 00:08:59,325 --> 00:09:01,765 Speaker 1: what it means to be a person, it means to 163 00:09:01,765 --> 00:09:04,125 Speaker 1: be a human. And what Diogenes did is he walked 164 00:09:04,205 --> 00:09:07,085 Speaker 1: up to Plato's school, he took a chicken, took all 165 00:09:07,085 --> 00:09:09,085 Speaker 1: the feathers off the chicken. He was like, based on 166 00:09:09,125 --> 00:09:13,125 Speaker 1: your definition, this is a man, this chicken. And so 167 00:09:13,805 --> 00:09:15,885 Speaker 1: he was known as the guy who brought a live 168 00:09:15,965 --> 00:09:19,525 Speaker 1: chicken to Plato's play. So that's the thing. Like he 169 00:09:19,645 --> 00:09:23,565 Speaker 1: was just so committed to it. Yeah, he really was, 170 00:09:23,845 --> 00:09:27,245 Speaker 1: was like the original troll. Yeah. Well here's also here's 171 00:09:27,245 --> 00:09:30,845 Speaker 1: a funny, you know, a little Diogenes diet plan. One 172 00:09:30,885 --> 00:09:33,725 Speaker 1: time he said, if only it were as easy to 173 00:09:33,805 --> 00:09:37,165 Speaker 1: banish hunger by rubbing my belly. He said that in 174 00:09:37,245 --> 00:09:39,965 Speaker 1: response when someone was like, hey man, you shouldn't masturbate 175 00:09:40,045 --> 00:09:42,925 Speaker 1: in public. But basically he's saying like, hey man, I'm 176 00:09:43,005 --> 00:09:45,525 Speaker 1: hungry and I can't rub my belly to be on hungry, 177 00:09:45,525 --> 00:09:50,045 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna rub one off my dudes. With Diogenes too, 178 00:09:50,085 --> 00:09:52,565 Speaker 1: he like would totally justify those actions where it's like 179 00:09:52,605 --> 00:09:54,605 Speaker 1: if someone caught me masturbating public, I'd be like, I 180 00:09:54,645 --> 00:09:58,725 Speaker 1: don't know why I did that, But Diogenes would be like, 181 00:09:58,805 --> 00:10:01,245 Speaker 1: oh no, this is like I am the fact that 182 00:10:01,285 --> 00:10:03,245 Speaker 1: you're like disgusted with this, it's like you are so 183 00:10:03,285 --> 00:10:05,085 Speaker 1: far away from what it actually means to be a 184 00:10:05,165 --> 00:10:07,885 Speaker 1: human because you're living in society, like fuck off. And 185 00:10:07,925 --> 00:10:10,765 Speaker 1: he also, like a lot of his works, he justified 186 00:10:10,885 --> 00:10:14,445 Speaker 1: cannibalism and murder and like all this other stuff. So 187 00:10:14,525 --> 00:10:16,805 Speaker 1: that's why some people think his work was suppressed because 188 00:10:16,885 --> 00:10:20,125 Speaker 1: future stoics wanted to make him look better because obviously 189 00:10:20,645 --> 00:10:24,125 Speaker 1: those aren't like the sexiest things to defend. You know, 190 00:10:24,965 --> 00:10:28,325 Speaker 1: it's just like bad pr you know. Yeah, so you know, 191 00:10:28,405 --> 00:10:31,405 Speaker 1: I just imagined him as this like haggard man, like 192 00:10:31,485 --> 00:10:34,045 Speaker 1: running around trolling people in Athens. But then one day 193 00:10:34,125 --> 00:10:36,045 Speaker 1: he was on a sea of venture and he got 194 00:10:36,085 --> 00:10:39,245 Speaker 1: captured by pirates and was sold into slavery. You know 195 00:10:39,325 --> 00:10:46,845 Speaker 1: when that suddenly happens. Yeah, whoa, Yeah, Okay, so he 196 00:10:46,925 --> 00:10:49,005 Speaker 1: got bought by this dude in Corinth, and what he 197 00:10:49,045 --> 00:10:51,725 Speaker 1: did was just like lounging the sun and like tutor 198 00:10:51,805 --> 00:10:56,485 Speaker 1: this guy's two kids. So not like the worst. He 199 00:10:56,565 --> 00:10:59,005 Speaker 1: eventually was freed, I think a few years afterwards, like 200 00:10:59,005 --> 00:11:01,005 Speaker 1: while he was like staying at this home and like 201 00:11:01,045 --> 00:11:04,965 Speaker 1: tutoring these kids. But that's when Alexander the Great stumbled 202 00:11:05,005 --> 00:11:07,565 Speaker 1: across him. Because he was like pretty well known, and 203 00:11:07,725 --> 00:11:12,565 Speaker 1: after Alexander the Great conquered Corinth, where he was he 204 00:11:12,925 --> 00:11:15,205 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I want to meet Diogenes. And so 205 00:11:15,365 --> 00:11:18,765 Speaker 1: the story goes that Alexander the Great found Diogenes lounging 206 00:11:18,805 --> 00:11:21,045 Speaker 1: in a field in the sunlight, and he like comes 207 00:11:21,045 --> 00:11:23,125 Speaker 1: to talk to him, and he's like, oh my god, Diogenes, 208 00:11:23,165 --> 00:11:26,845 Speaker 1: you're like so cool. Yeah, I'm like really powerful. I 209 00:11:26,885 --> 00:11:28,445 Speaker 1: don't know if you know that about me. I'm like 210 00:11:28,565 --> 00:11:31,085 Speaker 1: super powerful. But would you like me to grant you 211 00:11:31,165 --> 00:11:33,725 Speaker 1: like a wish or whatever, because like I can do whatever. 212 00:11:33,845 --> 00:11:36,085 Speaker 1: And then Diogenes was just like, yeah, you could get 213 00:11:36,085 --> 00:11:42,485 Speaker 1: out of my sunlight shots fired. Yeah, Alexander the Great. 214 00:11:42,525 --> 00:11:44,685 Speaker 1: You know, in some accounts he was mad. Other counts 215 00:11:44,685 --> 00:11:48,005 Speaker 1: he was like ha ha ha ha. But then he 216 00:11:48,085 --> 00:11:50,965 Speaker 1: ended up being like, well, Diogenes, if I wasn't Alexander 217 00:11:51,005 --> 00:11:53,285 Speaker 1: the Great, I would want to be Diogenes. And Diogenes 218 00:11:53,405 --> 00:11:56,245 Speaker 1: was like same, if I wasn't Diogenes, I would also 219 00:11:56,325 --> 00:12:01,045 Speaker 1: like to be Diogenes. Wait, he asked, what, dick you know? 220 00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:03,605 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not that he's standing up to power. 221 00:12:03,645 --> 00:12:05,405 Speaker 1: I'm sure he's just being a troll to like any 222 00:12:05,605 --> 00:12:07,965 Speaker 1: person who gets in his way, no matter their status 223 00:12:08,045 --> 00:12:11,605 Speaker 1: or station. So here's what happened with his death. Okay, 224 00:12:11,765 --> 00:12:14,365 Speaker 1: we'd all know. I was wondering if there was death, amos. 225 00:12:14,605 --> 00:12:16,805 Speaker 1: I mean, you know me, I like to take my 226 00:12:16,925 --> 00:12:20,205 Speaker 1: time getting to the point of the podcasts this theme. No, 227 00:12:20,405 --> 00:12:23,965 Speaker 1: he's actually my uncle. He actually like forever and I 228 00:12:24,045 --> 00:12:27,805 Speaker 1: keep him in my basement. Yeah, Diogenes is crazily still 229 00:12:27,845 --> 00:12:32,365 Speaker 1: alive to this day. He's like twenty four hundred years 230 00:12:32,405 --> 00:12:34,685 Speaker 1: or twenty six hundred years old, No, twenty four hundred 231 00:12:34,765 --> 00:12:38,125 Speaker 1: years old. He looks terrible. You know, he didn't use 232 00:12:38,165 --> 00:12:41,645 Speaker 1: the lotions, but he did die. Apparently he did. That's 233 00:12:41,685 --> 00:12:43,605 Speaker 1: the truth of the matter, is he did die. We 234 00:12:43,685 --> 00:12:45,645 Speaker 1: know that for sure that he died. That's not the 235 00:12:45,685 --> 00:12:48,965 Speaker 1: fake news. So there's like multiple theories of how he 236 00:12:49,045 --> 00:12:51,805 Speaker 1: might have died or you know, writings about how he died, 237 00:12:51,925 --> 00:12:54,365 Speaker 1: and I think it's more like metaphor. But there was 238 00:12:54,405 --> 00:12:58,405 Speaker 1: one where he held his breath until he died, which 239 00:12:58,445 --> 00:13:00,245 Speaker 1: we know you can't do. But I do think that 240 00:13:00,485 --> 00:13:02,365 Speaker 1: death would make sense for him because I think he 241 00:13:02,365 --> 00:13:04,405 Speaker 1: would also be like trolling the world being like, yeah, 242 00:13:04,445 --> 00:13:06,405 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna hold my breath and then die buds 243 00:13:06,485 --> 00:13:09,565 Speaker 1: like then I'm out of here, like back off, you know. 244 00:13:10,045 --> 00:13:12,125 Speaker 1: Another way he might have died is they said that 245 00:13:12,165 --> 00:13:15,685 Speaker 1: he might have eaten some raw octopus it was poisoned, 246 00:13:15,725 --> 00:13:18,245 Speaker 1: and then he died from that. But then the way 247 00:13:18,405 --> 00:13:21,525 Speaker 1: I'm going to choose that he died is the third theory, 248 00:13:21,525 --> 00:13:24,485 Speaker 1: because we all know Diogenes. You know, he respected dogs. 249 00:13:24,805 --> 00:13:26,725 Speaker 1: He loved the dogs. He was like, yeah, you're calling 250 00:13:26,765 --> 00:13:28,525 Speaker 1: me a dog, but like, I like that, I'm gonna 251 00:13:28,525 --> 00:13:30,525 Speaker 1: take your insult and make it a compliment. That was 252 00:13:30,565 --> 00:13:33,485 Speaker 1: something that he did all the time, well before he died. 253 00:13:33,525 --> 00:13:36,405 Speaker 1: He said that when he dies, he didn't want any 254 00:13:36,445 --> 00:13:39,245 Speaker 1: like fancy burial rituals or whatever. He was like, when 255 00:13:39,285 --> 00:13:42,045 Speaker 1: I died, just throw me over the gates of Corinth 256 00:13:42,285 --> 00:13:45,085 Speaker 1: and let the wild beasts and the dogs feed on me. Okay, 257 00:13:45,085 --> 00:13:48,285 Speaker 1: he just wanted to be eaten by dogs after he died. 258 00:13:49,085 --> 00:13:53,445 Speaker 1: That makes sense. Give back to his people exactly, his people, 259 00:13:53,485 --> 00:13:57,925 Speaker 1: the dogs, his followers, the dogs his followers. But the 260 00:13:57,965 --> 00:14:00,085 Speaker 1: one way that people do think he died was that 261 00:14:00,165 --> 00:14:05,245 Speaker 1: he was bitten by a dog and got rabies and died. 262 00:14:05,925 --> 00:14:09,605 Speaker 1: That is so fitting, I know, it's so appropriate. Or 263 00:14:09,645 --> 00:14:13,365 Speaker 1: it was just like general infection. Yeah, infections happen back 264 00:14:13,405 --> 00:14:17,685 Speaker 1: then a lot, so I like the story I think 265 00:14:17,765 --> 00:14:21,085 Speaker 1: to really honored Diogenes is we should just, you know, 266 00:14:22,085 --> 00:14:23,765 Speaker 1: say that he got bit by a dog and he 267 00:14:23,845 --> 00:14:28,165 Speaker 1: died sadly. Though they did not do his preferred burial method. 268 00:14:28,205 --> 00:14:30,165 Speaker 1: They didn't throw them over the walls of corns. And 269 00:14:31,965 --> 00:14:34,605 Speaker 1: why do people not just do the burials that people 270 00:14:34,645 --> 00:14:37,005 Speaker 1: ask for? I mean maybe people didn't want to, like 271 00:14:37,245 --> 00:14:40,245 Speaker 1: look at that happening, you know, like I get that, 272 00:14:40,485 --> 00:14:43,285 Speaker 1: turn your back quickly, yeah, just like, don't look over there. 273 00:14:43,405 --> 00:14:47,245 Speaker 1: Put up a sign, earplugs, yeah, put in your earbuds 274 00:14:47,525 --> 00:14:52,845 Speaker 1: ancient Grecian folks. But after he died, they did put 275 00:14:52,925 --> 00:14:56,285 Speaker 1: up a memorial. Well, because this is what I want 276 00:14:56,285 --> 00:14:57,645 Speaker 1: to go back to you, Taylor. I know in a 277 00:14:57,685 --> 00:15:00,685 Speaker 1: previous episode you said that your preferred burial method would 278 00:15:00,725 --> 00:15:04,205 Speaker 1: be to be totally obliterated. If that does happen to you, 279 00:15:04,285 --> 00:15:06,805 Speaker 1: I'm going to do the same thing thing that they 280 00:15:06,845 --> 00:15:10,405 Speaker 1: did for Diogenes, is which they erected a marble pillar 281 00:15:10,765 --> 00:15:13,205 Speaker 1: with a marble statue of a dog on top of 282 00:15:13,245 --> 00:15:17,925 Speaker 1: it in remembrance of Diogenes and of Taylor. So oh, 283 00:15:17,965 --> 00:15:20,565 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, So his story gave me some 284 00:15:20,645 --> 00:15:23,205 Speaker 1: good insight on how your funeral should go. I still 285 00:15:23,245 --> 00:15:25,325 Speaker 1: can't get over the fact that you just said erected. 286 00:15:25,525 --> 00:15:32,405 Speaker 1: It sounds a lot like erection. I don't know, it 287 00:15:32,445 --> 00:15:35,645 Speaker 1: got hard. I don't know. We're actually twelve. Okay, we're 288 00:15:35,645 --> 00:15:39,005 Speaker 1: all twelve. No, that's just uniqua Okay, Well, anyway, I 289 00:15:39,045 --> 00:15:41,205 Speaker 1: want to say that Diogenes is saying I'm a dog, 290 00:15:41,285 --> 00:15:44,245 Speaker 1: well thinks I like dogs. Reminds me so much of like, 291 00:15:44,525 --> 00:15:46,685 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys did this, but in 292 00:15:46,845 --> 00:15:50,005 Speaker 1: um primary school or middle school or high school, when 293 00:15:50,045 --> 00:15:52,365 Speaker 1: someone would be like, yeah, a bitch and then you 294 00:15:52,365 --> 00:15:54,125 Speaker 1: would look at the girl and be like, oh, well, 295 00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:57,325 Speaker 1: a bitch is a female dog, So what do you say? 296 00:15:57,605 --> 00:16:00,085 Speaker 1: That was like the best way to combat that. Yeah? 297 00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:03,405 Speaker 1: What is that called being like that obnoxiously contrarian where 298 00:16:03,405 --> 00:16:04,765 Speaker 1: it's like I know what you're saying, but I'm going 299 00:16:04,805 --> 00:16:07,445 Speaker 1: to pretend like I don't know you're being Gabby, that's 300 00:16:07,485 --> 00:16:12,805 Speaker 1: what it's called. Wow. Wow, Well, thank you so much 301 00:16:12,925 --> 00:16:16,285 Speaker 1: Gabby for that. I am inspired, Taylor. I hope you 302 00:16:17,005 --> 00:16:20,125 Speaker 1: especially learned a thing or two about diogenes life and 303 00:16:20,165 --> 00:16:22,645 Speaker 1: how you can not make the same mistakes that he 304 00:16:22,685 --> 00:16:26,725 Speaker 1: did I did. I just I'm just I love my dog. 305 00:16:26,845 --> 00:16:29,845 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be a dog though, because that's 306 00:16:29,925 --> 00:16:34,725 Speaker 1: just not possible because you want to defecate in public, 307 00:16:35,125 --> 00:16:38,485 Speaker 1: got it or anything like that. So yeah, I think 308 00:16:38,645 --> 00:16:40,685 Speaker 1: I think I'll be fine. I think I'm good. Okay, 309 00:16:40,685 --> 00:16:42,365 Speaker 1: So we don't need I mean, Nica and I were 310 00:16:42,485 --> 00:16:44,845 Speaker 1: talking about an intervention just to make sure this wouldn't 311 00:16:44,845 --> 00:16:46,725 Speaker 1: happen for you. So I'm glad to know that we 312 00:16:46,765 --> 00:16:49,045 Speaker 1: have verbal confirmation from you that you won't become a 313 00:16:49,085 --> 00:16:52,845 Speaker 1: dog unnecessary? Right, good? Okay, Well, when we come back, 314 00:16:53,085 --> 00:16:55,565 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the way that Diogenes probably 315 00:16:55,565 --> 00:17:00,805 Speaker 1: actually was buried against as well. So Gabby's just shared 316 00:17:00,965 --> 00:17:05,365 Speaker 1: the extremely interesting, kind of bizarre but mostly awesome story 317 00:17:05,485 --> 00:17:11,125 Speaker 1: about Diogenes and his life and his doggy death. So 318 00:17:12,365 --> 00:17:15,525 Speaker 1: thank you. So. Since he died in corinth which was 319 00:17:15,605 --> 00:17:19,365 Speaker 1: the ancient city state between Athens and Sparta, and also 320 00:17:19,445 --> 00:17:22,685 Speaker 1: apparently he would make fun of the Corinthians burial rights 321 00:17:22,725 --> 00:17:26,045 Speaker 1: despite him being buried in that way, it feels only 322 00:17:26,165 --> 00:17:28,085 Speaker 1: right for me to share a little bit about how 323 00:17:28,125 --> 00:17:30,165 Speaker 1: would you be buried if you were at Corinthian in 324 00:17:30,245 --> 00:17:34,445 Speaker 1: three three? Do we all feel prepared for that? Yeah? 325 00:17:34,525 --> 00:17:37,325 Speaker 1: I think that's actually what we It's necessary that we 326 00:17:37,405 --> 00:17:40,285 Speaker 1: have this conversation, you know. So I'm so happy that 327 00:17:40,325 --> 00:17:45,485 Speaker 1: you brought it up. I believe in talking about important things. Okay, 328 00:17:45,645 --> 00:17:48,805 Speaker 1: so in Corinth, let's hear it, Yes, how they do 329 00:17:48,805 --> 00:17:54,205 Speaker 1: it in Corinth. Okay, So Corinth during Diogenes time did 330 00:17:54,285 --> 00:17:58,365 Speaker 1: not have outside religious influences just yet. Sometimes I think 331 00:17:58,405 --> 00:18:02,405 Speaker 1: when you think of Corinthians or Corinth, you think of Christianity. 332 00:18:02,605 --> 00:18:05,205 Speaker 1: I know I do, because that's how I grew up 333 00:18:05,245 --> 00:18:08,285 Speaker 1: in Corinthians was like a big it's a big Bible chapter, right, 334 00:18:08,325 --> 00:18:10,325 Speaker 1: But actually Paul the Apostles didn't even make it there 335 00:18:10,405 --> 00:18:14,725 Speaker 1: until forty nine eighty, so a good while post Diogenes 336 00:18:14,845 --> 00:18:21,645 Speaker 1: doggy death, there was yeah, the new way that we 337 00:18:21,685 --> 00:18:30,565 Speaker 1: should refer to post dddddd Okay anyway, um there, So 338 00:18:30,605 --> 00:18:35,885 Speaker 1: instead of Christianity, there were actually cults of Aphrodite, Apollo, Demeter, 339 00:18:36,125 --> 00:18:38,965 Speaker 1: other Greek gods, and so many of the burial rights 340 00:18:39,125 --> 00:18:43,325 Speaker 1: were directly connected with religious beliefs stemming from those gods 341 00:18:43,365 --> 00:18:46,965 Speaker 1: and of just Greek mythology in general. I find it 342 00:18:47,245 --> 00:18:52,245 Speaker 1: fascinating how the city was controlled by this fervent belief 343 00:18:52,445 --> 00:18:56,205 Speaker 1: in mythology. I actually found a translated quote from this 344 00:18:56,285 --> 00:18:59,965 Speaker 1: ancient Greek geographer whose name was Strabo, which, by the way, 345 00:18:59,965 --> 00:19:02,685 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's Strabo. I'm pretty sure that's like 346 00:19:02,685 --> 00:19:05,285 Speaker 1: a pasta shop. Now, I don't know, but I'm going 347 00:19:05,325 --> 00:19:07,285 Speaker 1: to name my next dog that Straba. It's like a 348 00:19:07,365 --> 00:19:10,445 Speaker 1: porn star, name ya Straba. Oh he has like a 349 00:19:10,445 --> 00:19:14,885 Speaker 1: big mustache and like big dick Strabo. Yeah, you're ruined it. 350 00:19:15,165 --> 00:19:18,445 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So, yeah, that's not your dog's name anymore. 351 00:19:18,565 --> 00:19:21,845 Speaker 1: We were just ruined it. But it is your pasta restaurant, 352 00:19:22,165 --> 00:19:28,285 Speaker 1: Strabo's pasta, which means his wiggly dick ill. Oh all right, Gavy, 353 00:19:28,565 --> 00:19:30,805 Speaker 1: now you ruined it. See, I'll play with you, but 354 00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:34,045 Speaker 1: then you take it too. I'm just like Diogenes. What 355 00:19:34,125 --> 00:19:36,565 Speaker 1: can I say? He's my mentor, he's in my basement. 356 00:19:36,725 --> 00:19:40,005 Speaker 1: I know he has in your basement. So um, what 357 00:19:40,165 --> 00:19:44,005 Speaker 1: he said explained perfectly how mythology and the cults of 358 00:19:44,045 --> 00:19:46,965 Speaker 1: the gods really drove the culture of Corinth, the way 359 00:19:46,965 --> 00:19:50,165 Speaker 1: the people lived, and obviously the burial rights. So he's 360 00:19:50,205 --> 00:19:53,325 Speaker 1: talking about one of the many temples of the goddess Aphrodite. 361 00:19:53,445 --> 00:19:57,725 Speaker 1: My girl and he says, Corinthos there on account of 362 00:19:57,725 --> 00:20:01,565 Speaker 1: the multitude of courtesance prostitutes who were sacred to aphrodite. 363 00:20:01,605 --> 00:20:05,165 Speaker 1: Outsiders resorted in great numbers. So the vacation there and 364 00:20:05,645 --> 00:20:08,645 Speaker 1: holiday and the merchants and soldiers who went there squandered 365 00:20:08,685 --> 00:20:11,285 Speaker 1: all their money, so that the following proverb arose in 366 00:20:11,325 --> 00:20:14,085 Speaker 1: reference to them. Not for every man is the voyage 367 00:20:14,125 --> 00:20:17,045 Speaker 1: to Corinthos. So I like to think of corinth As 368 00:20:17,085 --> 00:20:19,685 Speaker 1: like Las Vegas, which makes sense, And then it would 369 00:20:19,685 --> 00:20:22,525 Speaker 1: make sense why Diogenes was so like, throw all your 370 00:20:22,525 --> 00:20:25,325 Speaker 1: material possessions behind, because it seemed to be a very 371 00:20:25,685 --> 00:20:32,005 Speaker 1: very wealthy, popular place to go vacation and gamble yeah, 372 00:20:32,125 --> 00:20:36,405 Speaker 1: I don't know, probably gamble yeah, and have sex. So obviously, 373 00:20:36,765 --> 00:20:39,765 Speaker 1: per the above quote that I just said, the religion 374 00:20:39,765 --> 00:20:43,565 Speaker 1: at the time clearly affected every aspect of Corinthian people's lives, 375 00:20:43,645 --> 00:20:46,645 Speaker 1: including the burial rights that they adhere to. According to 376 00:20:46,685 --> 00:20:49,765 Speaker 1: the Greeks, the moment of death is when the dead 377 00:20:49,805 --> 00:20:52,965 Speaker 1: person's spirit leaves their body via a little breath or 378 00:20:53,005 --> 00:20:56,725 Speaker 1: a little puff of wind, and after the person is 379 00:20:56,765 --> 00:20:59,005 Speaker 1: confirmed to be dead, because you've got to confirm, don't 380 00:20:59,005 --> 00:21:02,485 Speaker 1: want to accidentally bury someone alive. Female relatives, usually elder 381 00:21:02,925 --> 00:21:06,525 Speaker 1: of the deceased, would begin the burial ritual, which was 382 00:21:06,565 --> 00:21:09,645 Speaker 1: a very intense ritual. It involved first of all washing 383 00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:13,045 Speaker 1: and anointing the body with oil, and then dressing the 384 00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:16,045 Speaker 1: body and placing it on a high bed in the 385 00:21:16,085 --> 00:21:19,845 Speaker 1: house where people could go and pay their respects and 386 00:21:20,125 --> 00:21:22,805 Speaker 1: see the deceased. And then what they would do is 387 00:21:22,885 --> 00:21:25,845 Speaker 1: take the body to its place of burial on like 388 00:21:25,885 --> 00:21:29,725 Speaker 1: a funerary procession path called an ecphora. And they would 389 00:21:29,765 --> 00:21:32,005 Speaker 1: have to do this right before dawn because the Greek 390 00:21:32,005 --> 00:21:35,405 Speaker 1: government didn't want to be disturbed during the daytime, just 391 00:21:35,445 --> 00:21:38,805 Speaker 1: like taking a deceased person around the roads in They're like, 392 00:21:38,925 --> 00:21:42,445 Speaker 1: we don't want those bad vibes exactly, no bad vibes. 393 00:21:43,885 --> 00:21:46,685 Speaker 1: They would also put a coin for Karen. I think 394 00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,005 Speaker 1: is how you pronounce it, which is the person who, 395 00:21:49,085 --> 00:21:52,565 Speaker 1: in Greek mythology ferries the souls across the river. Karen. 396 00:21:53,205 --> 00:21:57,925 Speaker 1: Karen okay s A h r O N Charon Karen. 397 00:21:58,125 --> 00:22:01,205 Speaker 1: I don't know, I say Karen. Let's say it's Karen. No, 398 00:22:01,325 --> 00:22:04,645 Speaker 1: it's not Karen. Can you imagine Karen, some white woman 399 00:22:04,685 --> 00:22:07,845 Speaker 1: picks you up in her van and drives you across 400 00:22:06,845 --> 00:22:11,605 Speaker 1: the river, complains about like the trans I can't actually 401 00:22:11,845 --> 00:22:16,725 Speaker 1: and like her two thousand four quest, many vans absolutely, yes, 402 00:22:17,365 --> 00:22:19,645 Speaker 1: well that's what they would do. They would put the 403 00:22:19,645 --> 00:22:22,485 Speaker 1: coin because you had to pay Karen, which I guess 404 00:22:22,725 --> 00:22:26,645 Speaker 1: Karen and Karen in many ways both need to get paid. 405 00:22:27,205 --> 00:22:30,645 Speaker 1: And that's that makes total sense what I just said. Yeah, 406 00:22:34,365 --> 00:22:37,885 Speaker 1: no priests. Also, no priests could be present during the 407 00:22:37,925 --> 00:22:41,965 Speaker 1: burial because it was believed that corpses could pollute the gods, 408 00:22:42,205 --> 00:22:44,925 Speaker 1: and because priests would convene with the gods, they didn't 409 00:22:44,965 --> 00:22:48,365 Speaker 1: want to pollute the priests and then pollute the gods. Basically, 410 00:22:48,485 --> 00:22:50,485 Speaker 1: so relatives had to do all of the work of 411 00:22:50,485 --> 00:22:52,725 Speaker 1: burying their loved ones, which is like a lot. And 412 00:22:53,085 --> 00:22:55,725 Speaker 1: this makes sense why Diogenius was like, throw me across 413 00:22:55,765 --> 00:22:58,165 Speaker 1: the wall. It's because they had all people had to 414 00:22:58,205 --> 00:23:00,485 Speaker 1: be buried outside of the city walls because it was 415 00:23:00,525 --> 00:23:04,885 Speaker 1: thought the dead bodies were were pollution. So that that's 416 00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:08,045 Speaker 1: I guess Jenese was at least respecting that in the 417 00:23:08,085 --> 00:23:10,885 Speaker 1: sense of he didn't warrant because he could have said, hey, 418 00:23:10,925 --> 00:23:13,285 Speaker 1: throw me, you know, on the street, but he said 419 00:23:13,285 --> 00:23:16,525 Speaker 1: throw me along the wall. So makes sense, but it's like, also, 420 00:23:16,605 --> 00:23:18,365 Speaker 1: that would have been more. I mean, if it's your 421 00:23:18,405 --> 00:23:21,365 Speaker 1: family that has to do all the burial rituals and stuff, 422 00:23:21,485 --> 00:23:23,605 Speaker 1: it would make sense to throw him to the dogs, though, 423 00:23:23,605 --> 00:23:26,885 Speaker 1: because the dogs were his family. It does. It does, 424 00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:30,165 Speaker 1: But I think that in Greek mythology they believe that 425 00:23:30,205 --> 00:23:34,165 Speaker 1: if the body isn't prepared correctly and isn't buried correctly, 426 00:23:34,485 --> 00:23:37,165 Speaker 1: the dead would not be able to cross over into 427 00:23:37,165 --> 00:23:40,485 Speaker 1: the afterlife and then could haunt family members. So I 428 00:23:40,525 --> 00:23:44,045 Speaker 1: don't know who buried Diogenes, but I'm assuming that they 429 00:23:44,125 --> 00:23:47,245 Speaker 1: buried him because Okay, again, Taylor, no dog is going 430 00:23:47,285 --> 00:23:49,845 Speaker 1: to pick up Diogenes and bury him with his little 431 00:23:50,005 --> 00:23:53,685 Speaker 1: dogs will have thumbs, but they're good. Digg. You're not 432 00:23:53,885 --> 00:23:57,165 Speaker 1: putting the story together very well, Nika. You know dogs, 433 00:23:57,285 --> 00:23:59,845 Speaker 1: dogs can dig better than humans can. I'm going to 434 00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:02,885 Speaker 1: give that to the dogs. I'm so you're telling me 435 00:24:03,325 --> 00:24:05,725 Speaker 1: that I'm not putting the story well because I'm telling 436 00:24:05,725 --> 00:24:08,845 Speaker 1: you that Johns didn't bury this ancient philosopher. Hey, we 437 00:24:08,925 --> 00:24:14,365 Speaker 1: don't know if I could physically. But also, Nick, I'm 438 00:24:14,365 --> 00:24:16,325 Speaker 1: gonna say that you're telling a great story and also 439 00:24:16,325 --> 00:24:20,485 Speaker 1: would make sense why they would be so pressed to 440 00:24:20,525 --> 00:24:24,005 Speaker 1: give him a burial because they don't want Diogenes haunting them. 441 00:24:24,005 --> 00:24:26,965 Speaker 1: He would be the worst ghost. Oh he would. He 442 00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:31,245 Speaker 1: would be the worst. And that was my biggest conclusion, 443 00:24:31,485 --> 00:24:34,125 Speaker 1: like coming out of my research, I was like, it 444 00:24:34,165 --> 00:24:36,605 Speaker 1: makes sense that they did not give him the burial 445 00:24:36,645 --> 00:24:40,525 Speaker 1: that he wanted because Diogenes is a ghost sounds like 446 00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:44,725 Speaker 1: the worst possible idea. We don't want to give him 447 00:24:44,885 --> 00:24:47,885 Speaker 1: like eternity. It was enough at hold was he when 448 00:24:47,885 --> 00:24:50,845 Speaker 1: he died? He was pretty old. He was probably like 449 00:24:51,445 --> 00:24:56,525 Speaker 1: hold on thirty two, like or eighty okay, yeah, so 450 00:24:56,765 --> 00:24:59,605 Speaker 1: we eighty to ninety years was more than enough for 451 00:24:59,685 --> 00:25:02,205 Speaker 1: this man. So it makes sense that they really made 452 00:25:02,205 --> 00:25:05,925 Speaker 1: sure that he was buried properly. And that's what I happened. 453 00:25:06,205 --> 00:25:10,085 Speaker 1: If you would have been buried in Corinth you, Gabby specifically, 454 00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:13,485 Speaker 1: thank you. I would love to get in Karen's minivan 455 00:25:13,605 --> 00:25:17,205 Speaker 1: and she probably had some good smacks, like she probably 456 00:25:17,205 --> 00:25:20,205 Speaker 1: has fruit by the foot, you know, honestly, she probably 457 00:25:20,245 --> 00:25:23,565 Speaker 1: does her like that's it some capri son. Her minivan 458 00:25:23,725 --> 00:25:27,965 Speaker 1: is littered with peanuts or like raisins. Yeah, speaking of 459 00:25:28,285 --> 00:25:33,605 Speaker 1: a place with a lot of Karen's Taylor, Oh, my gosh, 460 00:25:32,925 --> 00:25:37,645 Speaker 1: I love my segues. Don't disrespect Arkansas like that. I mean, 461 00:25:37,645 --> 00:25:39,365 Speaker 1: it's got a lot of Karen's, but it's got a 462 00:25:39,365 --> 00:25:43,845 Speaker 1: lot of like other people. Absolutely, there are other people Karen. 463 00:25:43,965 --> 00:25:47,485 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Listen, we are here recording from Atlanta, Georgia, 464 00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:52,605 Speaker 1: which is us, according to like a little vaccination map, 465 00:25:52,965 --> 00:25:56,765 Speaker 1: an anti vaxer city, which I just find hilarious. So 466 00:25:57,645 --> 00:26:00,165 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not making fun of any Karens, because 467 00:26:00,165 --> 00:26:03,605 Speaker 1: we have enough Karen's here. Oh yeah, so Taylor, yes, 468 00:26:03,965 --> 00:26:10,285 Speaker 1: this state, something real bad happen there. Yep. So I 469 00:26:10,365 --> 00:26:13,165 Speaker 1: just want to preface that this story is a big 470 00:26:13,205 --> 00:26:15,285 Speaker 1: one for cadaver gals, but I'm going to see if 471 00:26:15,325 --> 00:26:18,005 Speaker 1: I can make it work. I heard about this case, like, 472 00:26:18,405 --> 00:26:20,645 Speaker 1: I don't know, a year, two years ago or something 473 00:26:20,685 --> 00:26:24,205 Speaker 1: working on another podcast. So there's a lot to unpack here, 474 00:26:24,325 --> 00:26:26,965 Speaker 1: So bear with me. But also, if you really like it, 475 00:26:27,005 --> 00:26:29,565 Speaker 1: then just tell us, tell our bosses, and then make 476 00:26:29,605 --> 00:26:33,125 Speaker 1: them make us do a podcast about this case. Anyway. 477 00:26:33,405 --> 00:26:38,005 Speaker 1: You want us to go back to Arkansas, Taylor, No, this, 478 00:26:38,245 --> 00:26:42,805 Speaker 1: we can do this research remotely, Okay, okay, okay, fine, 479 00:26:43,005 --> 00:26:45,565 Speaker 1: And you had fun in Arkansas. From what I understand, 480 00:26:45,685 --> 00:26:49,005 Speaker 1: it's true. There's this amazing place in Arkansas called the 481 00:26:49,245 --> 00:26:53,525 Speaker 1: Daisy Queen, not the Dairy Queen, and it's it's perhaps 482 00:26:53,525 --> 00:26:57,405 Speaker 1: the best place I've ever been. I'll leave it at that. Wait, well, 483 00:26:57,805 --> 00:27:02,565 Speaker 1: Arkansas sponsored by Daisy Queen. It's just like in this 484 00:27:02,645 --> 00:27:06,085 Speaker 1: small town called Marshall, Arkansas. It's like popular of twelve 485 00:27:06,205 --> 00:27:09,805 Speaker 1: hundred and it's it's basically like a diner. I had 486 00:27:09,845 --> 00:27:17,445 Speaker 1: like a fried twinky Sunday situation and it was terrific. Okay, anyway, Taylor, 487 00:27:17,805 --> 00:27:22,085 Speaker 1: So this um, this is a case out of Alexander, Arkansas. 488 00:27:22,245 --> 00:27:24,805 Speaker 1: It's a pretty it's a pretty well known case. It's 489 00:27:24,845 --> 00:27:28,405 Speaker 1: about these two guys, Don Henry and Kevin Knives. They 490 00:27:28,405 --> 00:27:31,845 Speaker 1: were sixteen and seventeen years old. They were best friends. 491 00:27:31,885 --> 00:27:35,165 Speaker 1: They were seniors in high school. Alexander, Arkansas is a 492 00:27:35,285 --> 00:27:38,725 Speaker 1: very rural area. You know, they like to hunt. Is 493 00:27:38,765 --> 00:27:41,165 Speaker 1: it in like the Ozark Yeah, so it's I mean 494 00:27:41,205 --> 00:27:43,245 Speaker 1: it's kind of near the Ozarks. But anyway, so that 495 00:27:43,365 --> 00:27:47,765 Speaker 1: night on August twenty third, nineteen eighty seven, the two 496 00:27:47,805 --> 00:27:50,245 Speaker 1: were staying at Don's house and they go out to 497 00:27:50,325 --> 00:27:53,845 Speaker 1: go presumably to go hunting because Don he had this 498 00:27:53,965 --> 00:27:56,885 Speaker 1: rifle that he like, really cherished, and so he had 499 00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,005 Speaker 1: it with him, so they presumed that he was they 500 00:27:59,005 --> 00:28:02,285 Speaker 1: were going to go hunting. So about four am, a 501 00:28:02,405 --> 00:28:05,485 Speaker 1: cargo train was passing by, as it does every day, 502 00:28:05,605 --> 00:28:09,765 Speaker 1: going through to Little Rock. When the conductor noticed that 503 00:28:09,765 --> 00:28:12,925 Speaker 1: there was something on the tracks. He eventually realized that 504 00:28:12,965 --> 00:28:15,245 Speaker 1: it was these two boys who turned out to be 505 00:28:15,365 --> 00:28:18,925 Speaker 1: Don and Kevin. So the conductor also mentioned that there 506 00:28:18,965 --> 00:28:21,045 Speaker 1: was like a green tarp. We can kind of talk 507 00:28:21,085 --> 00:28:25,165 Speaker 1: about that again later. But the conductor did everything to 508 00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:27,965 Speaker 1: stop the train, blew the horn or whistle or whatever 509 00:28:28,045 --> 00:28:30,765 Speaker 1: to try and warn the boys to get up and 510 00:28:30,925 --> 00:28:35,285 Speaker 1: get moving, but it was too late. Oh no, peace. Yeah, 511 00:28:35,325 --> 00:28:38,845 Speaker 1: the seventy five car, six thousand ton train could not 512 00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:41,445 Speaker 1: stop in time. It was going about like fifty fifty 513 00:28:41,445 --> 00:28:43,725 Speaker 1: five miles per hour, and it actually takes about a 514 00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:46,525 Speaker 1: mile or so to stop a train of that size. 515 00:28:46,565 --> 00:28:48,845 Speaker 1: And wait, seems like there should be a quicker way 516 00:28:48,845 --> 00:28:50,325 Speaker 1: to stop a train, but I mean, when you have 517 00:28:50,365 --> 00:28:52,445 Speaker 1: so many cars, I guess that makes sense. We haven't 518 00:28:52,525 --> 00:28:58,765 Speaker 1: yet conquered inertia exactly, so obviously this was fatal. The 519 00:28:59,005 --> 00:29:01,605 Speaker 1: conductor once he was able to stop the train called 520 00:29:01,605 --> 00:29:04,445 Speaker 1: the police so they could begin their investigation. The boys 521 00:29:04,445 --> 00:29:08,845 Speaker 1: were apparently laying perfectly parallel on the train tracks, and 522 00:29:09,445 --> 00:29:12,085 Speaker 1: as it happens, the boys were autopsied, where the medical 523 00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:14,565 Speaker 1: examiner said that they believed the boys had smoked so 524 00:29:14,645 --> 00:29:20,325 Speaker 1: much marijuana that they were in a drug induced coma. Yeah, 525 00:29:20,565 --> 00:29:25,125 Speaker 1: I should be well, you're laughing because it's that's ridiculous, 526 00:29:25,165 --> 00:29:27,605 Speaker 1: Like the amount of thought they would have to smoke too, 527 00:29:27,645 --> 00:29:30,405 Speaker 1: I mean that's like not really yeah sip yeah. Also 528 00:29:30,445 --> 00:29:33,845 Speaker 1: to just like fall asleep perfectly on a train track 529 00:29:34,005 --> 00:29:37,645 Speaker 1: across you know, okay, also with green tarp over you Like, 530 00:29:37,725 --> 00:29:39,565 Speaker 1: what did they just snuggle up and think that like 531 00:29:39,925 --> 00:29:41,765 Speaker 1: the train track was a place to fall asleep and 532 00:29:41,805 --> 00:29:44,165 Speaker 1: they were cold and they grabbed a green tarp. Yeah, 533 00:29:44,165 --> 00:29:47,285 Speaker 1: you would sleep in the grass. Yeah, grass is softxactly. 534 00:29:47,445 --> 00:29:50,325 Speaker 1: And the scientific like the horn you would hear the 535 00:29:50,405 --> 00:29:52,925 Speaker 1: a train is so loud, you would hear the horn. 536 00:29:53,045 --> 00:29:56,005 Speaker 1: You would feel the vibrations, like no matter how high 537 00:29:56,045 --> 00:29:59,965 Speaker 1: you are, you could probably with enough time get up 538 00:30:00,005 --> 00:30:04,485 Speaker 1: in theory anyway, so the medical examiner, that's what he said, 539 00:30:04,525 --> 00:30:08,085 Speaker 1: though it was a drug induced coma that medical exam 540 00:30:08,205 --> 00:30:11,165 Speaker 1: or didn't know much about drugs. Sounds like a square, 541 00:30:11,445 --> 00:30:14,685 Speaker 1: sure didn't. He said something that it was like some 542 00:30:14,725 --> 00:30:18,405 Speaker 1: equivalent of like two thousand joints or something insane like that, 543 00:30:18,405 --> 00:30:23,965 Speaker 1: which like, who's even two thousand joints? And Alexander Arkansas 544 00:30:24,045 --> 00:30:29,765 Speaker 1: it would take so much talent to roll two thousand joints, 545 00:30:29,805 --> 00:30:33,485 Speaker 1: like the time to actually smoke it. Yeah, Like anyway, 546 00:30:33,765 --> 00:30:37,605 Speaker 1: I digress. So the investigators were like, sounds good to me. 547 00:30:38,205 --> 00:30:43,525 Speaker 1: This is an accident. They accidentally smoked two thousand joints 548 00:30:43,565 --> 00:30:48,605 Speaker 1: and laid down to rest on train tracks perfectly parallel, Yeah, 549 00:30:48,645 --> 00:30:52,845 Speaker 1: which is suspicious. If you're that like high and coma induced, 550 00:30:52,845 --> 00:30:55,445 Speaker 1: you're not going to be that specific about being super 551 00:30:55,725 --> 00:31:00,245 Speaker 1: perfectly parallel anyway. So the boys families were like, hmm, 552 00:31:00,805 --> 00:31:04,325 Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. So they tried really hard 553 00:31:04,365 --> 00:31:08,045 Speaker 1: to get the case opened back up, but were consistently denied. 554 00:31:08,645 --> 00:31:11,845 Speaker 1: Eventually they hired a PI He also tried to get 555 00:31:11,885 --> 00:31:16,125 Speaker 1: the case reopened, also denied, until they decided They're like, 556 00:31:16,125 --> 00:31:19,165 Speaker 1: you know what, forget the investigators, Let's take this to 557 00:31:19,245 --> 00:31:22,525 Speaker 1: the town. So they held a town hall press conference thing, 558 00:31:23,205 --> 00:31:27,965 Speaker 1: and literally the next day the case was reopened. So 559 00:31:28,485 --> 00:31:32,325 Speaker 1: super effective method just for some places. I guess it's 560 00:31:32,365 --> 00:31:37,285 Speaker 1: your town together, y'all get your people. So eventually they 561 00:31:37,325 --> 00:31:40,085 Speaker 1: get the bodies exoomed so that a new medical examiner 562 00:31:40,125 --> 00:31:43,805 Speaker 1: could conduct their own autopsy. This medical examiner had a 563 00:31:43,885 --> 00:31:47,165 Speaker 1: very different finding. He determined that one of the boys 564 00:31:47,205 --> 00:31:49,885 Speaker 1: had died prior to the train hitting them, and the 565 00:31:49,965 --> 00:31:53,645 Speaker 1: other one was unconscious. And then also he was like, okay, 566 00:31:53,685 --> 00:31:55,885 Speaker 1: there was like a little bit of marijuana in their systems, 567 00:31:55,925 --> 00:31:58,965 Speaker 1: but like not like what was said by the first 568 00:31:58,965 --> 00:32:01,805 Speaker 1: medical examiner was like plenty for them to be able 569 00:32:01,805 --> 00:32:05,765 Speaker 1: to wake back up. So the second autopsy determined thener 570 00:32:05,925 --> 00:32:10,165 Speaker 1: was possible homicide. So this went from like a total 571 00:32:10,205 --> 00:32:13,045 Speaker 1: accident to like somebody straight up murder at these boys. 572 00:32:13,725 --> 00:32:18,045 Speaker 1: So then also still not satisfied, a third autopsy was 573 00:32:18,085 --> 00:32:22,365 Speaker 1: conducted by yet another pathologist, and this is insane to me. 574 00:32:22,765 --> 00:32:25,965 Speaker 1: This time there was evidence of stab wounds found on 575 00:32:26,085 --> 00:32:29,925 Speaker 1: don shirt and Kevin ives appeared to have like a 576 00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:31,965 Speaker 1: blow to the head by what looked like to be 577 00:32:31,965 --> 00:32:34,605 Speaker 1: the base of the gun that they had brought with them. 578 00:32:34,925 --> 00:32:39,845 Speaker 1: And so this medical examiner determined that this was actually 579 00:32:40,005 --> 00:32:44,085 Speaker 1: ruled actually a homicide. So this went from accident to 580 00:32:45,085 --> 00:32:47,925 Speaker 1: these boys were straight up murdered. And this kind of 581 00:32:47,925 --> 00:32:51,805 Speaker 1: went down a year after the incident, so obviously this 582 00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:56,125 Speaker 1: investigation has now taken a turn. And during this time 583 00:32:56,285 --> 00:33:00,085 Speaker 1: there was this drug trafficking ring going on in Arkansas, 584 00:33:00,445 --> 00:33:03,445 Speaker 1: and so the new investigator was like, I bet these 585 00:33:03,485 --> 00:33:06,845 Speaker 1: boys saw something that they weren't supposed to see, and 586 00:33:06,925 --> 00:33:10,205 Speaker 1: so that's like what happened. But they really couldn't get 587 00:33:10,285 --> 00:33:13,885 Speaker 1: very far with like what actually happened, so they kind 588 00:33:13,885 --> 00:33:17,285 Speaker 1: of assumed like, Okay, they saw something and they were 589 00:33:17,325 --> 00:33:19,445 Speaker 1: put you know, they were beaten and murdered or whatever 590 00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:21,565 Speaker 1: and then put on the train tracks so that it 591 00:33:21,765 --> 00:33:25,005 Speaker 1: looked like an accident. Did they figure out if the 592 00:33:25,085 --> 00:33:29,965 Speaker 1: first doctor who did the autopsy was a dirty doctor? 593 00:33:30,485 --> 00:33:34,885 Speaker 1: A DD? So there is actually a lot he had 594 00:33:35,005 --> 00:33:41,845 Speaker 1: botched a ton of autopsies and eventually he resigned and 595 00:33:42,405 --> 00:33:45,005 Speaker 1: like a lot of the people that he had autopsied 596 00:33:45,445 --> 00:33:48,685 Speaker 1: had been re autopsied afterwards, so that he was not 597 00:33:48,925 --> 00:33:53,005 Speaker 1: great at his job literally or he was corrupt. So 598 00:33:53,085 --> 00:33:55,485 Speaker 1: there's actually this pretty famous story about this guy named 599 00:33:55,525 --> 00:33:59,765 Speaker 1: Barry Seal, and he was a commercial pilot turned drug 600 00:33:59,765 --> 00:34:05,165 Speaker 1: trafficking pilot turned CIA informant who was involved in transporting 601 00:34:05,165 --> 00:34:09,725 Speaker 1: cocae through the Mina, Arkansas Airport. Later he was murdered. 602 00:34:09,725 --> 00:34:11,845 Speaker 1: Obviously he was dealing with a bunch of like drug 603 00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:15,205 Speaker 1: people and whatnot. So so anyway, all of this was 604 00:34:15,245 --> 00:34:18,565 Speaker 1: like still going on. Barry Seal died like just before 605 00:34:18,605 --> 00:34:21,485 Speaker 1: these kids, but this trafficking ring was still going on. 606 00:34:22,565 --> 00:34:26,005 Speaker 1: So nothing really nothing comes of it. It's just been 607 00:34:26,125 --> 00:34:30,765 Speaker 1: kind of a stand still. But fast forward to twenty eighteen. 608 00:34:31,325 --> 00:34:35,925 Speaker 1: There was this famous wrestler named Billy Jack Haynes, and 609 00:34:36,205 --> 00:34:39,805 Speaker 1: he was often security for these drug jobs and he 610 00:34:39,925 --> 00:34:42,965 Speaker 1: came out in twenty eighteen recorded a testimony claiming that 611 00:34:43,005 --> 00:34:46,245 Speaker 1: he saw the boys murdered and actually had it recorded 612 00:34:46,285 --> 00:34:48,445 Speaker 1: since it was his job to provide evidence that the 613 00:34:48,725 --> 00:34:52,325 Speaker 1: drugs were like dropped correctly or whatever. And he says 614 00:34:52,325 --> 00:34:55,405 Speaker 1: that he was working for a criminal politician. He was 615 00:34:55,445 --> 00:34:58,645 Speaker 1: told to keep his identity safe, so he wore like 616 00:34:58,845 --> 00:35:01,485 Speaker 1: a black ski mask, which is why his name apparently 617 00:35:01,525 --> 00:35:04,405 Speaker 1: was like never mentioned. Now I don't really know where 618 00:35:04,405 --> 00:35:07,245 Speaker 1: this testimony has gone. I do know that he was 619 00:35:07,245 --> 00:35:09,045 Speaker 1: like on drugs at the time and he has like 620 00:35:09,125 --> 00:35:11,685 Speaker 1: this really bad reputation of like all these crazy claims 621 00:35:11,685 --> 00:35:14,925 Speaker 1: and stuff like this. But also so he was saying 622 00:35:15,005 --> 00:35:20,885 Speaker 1: he was working for a politician, a criminal politician. So 623 00:35:20,965 --> 00:35:25,085 Speaker 1: I actually came across this discussion board too recently and 624 00:35:25,845 --> 00:35:29,765 Speaker 1: during my research. Coincidentally, Wow, there was a Reddit thread. 625 00:35:30,485 --> 00:35:34,445 Speaker 1: There were Reddit Reddit I love reddit, yep, so there 626 00:35:34,485 --> 00:35:38,085 Speaker 1: were there's a Reddit thread like asking like where the 627 00:35:38,125 --> 00:35:40,925 Speaker 1: heck did Billy Jack Haynes go. Like we haven't heard 628 00:35:40,965 --> 00:35:44,805 Speaker 1: it or seen him, seen from me or heard from 629 00:35:44,885 --> 00:35:48,805 Speaker 1: him since April of twenty twenty, which I assume is 630 00:35:48,805 --> 00:35:50,365 Speaker 1: just because of his like Twitter account that was like 631 00:35:50,365 --> 00:35:52,565 Speaker 1: the last time he posted something. So that doesn't necessarily 632 00:35:52,645 --> 00:35:56,485 Speaker 1: mean anything, but at this point, that's kind of like 633 00:35:56,765 --> 00:36:00,885 Speaker 1: the closest point of closure that we're going to get. 634 00:36:00,925 --> 00:36:04,245 Speaker 1: There were a lot of other instances where people who 635 00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:06,525 Speaker 1: were supposed to be working on the case or which 636 00:36:06,605 --> 00:36:08,965 Speaker 1: Nika is going to go into, but like there were 637 00:36:08,965 --> 00:36:10,805 Speaker 1: people that were supposed to be working on the case 638 00:36:11,125 --> 00:36:15,245 Speaker 1: that or were jurors or supposed to provide testimony that 639 00:36:15,965 --> 00:36:20,125 Speaker 1: wound up jed. So it's like, what's going on with this? 640 00:36:20,245 --> 00:36:26,125 Speaker 1: So this remains unsolved despite it being ruled a homicide. Correct, 641 00:36:26,685 --> 00:36:28,205 Speaker 1: They just were like, oh, I'm used to be these 642 00:36:28,285 --> 00:36:30,725 Speaker 1: drug people, and then it was kind of like okay 643 00:36:30,805 --> 00:36:33,805 Speaker 1: the end, the sheriffs didn't try to solve it or 644 00:36:33,845 --> 00:36:36,445 Speaker 1: like the like, the government didn't step in any nothing. 645 00:36:36,765 --> 00:36:38,965 Speaker 1: So the sheriff's department at the time was supposed to 646 00:36:39,005 --> 00:36:41,245 Speaker 1: send some of the materials, like the boy's clothing to 647 00:36:41,285 --> 00:36:44,525 Speaker 1: the FBI, but they actually didn't do that. They sent 648 00:36:44,605 --> 00:36:47,685 Speaker 1: it to the Arkansas State Police instead, and so like 649 00:36:48,085 --> 00:36:49,765 Speaker 1: there's just kind of been and then like you know, 650 00:36:49,885 --> 00:36:54,325 Speaker 1: once after a year or more, there is no more 651 00:36:54,365 --> 00:36:58,285 Speaker 1: evidence for them to kind of go back and collect oh, 652 00:36:58,325 --> 00:37:02,125 Speaker 1: the green tarp. So there was never any mention of 653 00:37:02,165 --> 00:37:05,245 Speaker 1: the green tarp. Later, the conductor Staud he saw it, 654 00:37:05,485 --> 00:37:09,005 Speaker 1: but it was never found. It wasn't found on the scenes. 655 00:37:09,085 --> 00:37:11,765 Speaker 1: So like people are also like what happened to the 656 00:37:11,845 --> 00:37:18,085 Speaker 1: green tarp? So very suspicion, many questions, this is crazy, 657 00:37:18,645 --> 00:37:23,965 Speaker 1: so many questions. Collect evidence, my dudes. Well, they were 658 00:37:24,005 --> 00:37:26,925 Speaker 1: just like they assumed from the beginning apparently that it 659 00:37:27,005 --> 00:37:30,245 Speaker 1: was just an accident, and so it wasn't really investigated 660 00:37:30,285 --> 00:37:33,645 Speaker 1: as a homicide, which is not how you're supposed to 661 00:37:33,685 --> 00:37:37,605 Speaker 1: do that apparently, But I'm not gonna try and take 662 00:37:37,685 --> 00:37:41,925 Speaker 1: on the Arkansas State Police. I will, I'll fight them all. 663 00:37:42,085 --> 00:37:47,205 Speaker 1: And I'm kidding. Oh my gosh, Well, this story overwhelmed me. 664 00:37:47,245 --> 00:37:49,845 Speaker 1: It had so much information. I was just like trying 665 00:37:49,845 --> 00:37:54,045 Speaker 1: to research for this, and I like kept hitting conspiracy 666 00:37:54,085 --> 00:37:56,765 Speaker 1: theory websites, which I was like, look like my brain 667 00:37:56,885 --> 00:38:02,645 Speaker 1: is rotting. And then um, very small tidbits of information. Taylor, 668 00:38:02,685 --> 00:38:07,205 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing. I fell owned conspiracy websites which 669 00:38:07,245 --> 00:38:09,965 Speaker 1: made my brain rot. And then also some tiny tidbits 670 00:38:09,965 --> 00:38:13,285 Speaker 1: of information which I'm so excited to share after the break. 671 00:38:15,045 --> 00:38:21,045 Speaker 1: So Taylor lovingly shared these two really horrible and suspicious deaths, 672 00:38:22,085 --> 00:38:25,965 Speaker 1: and she sent me some info too, because we were 673 00:38:25,965 --> 00:38:28,245 Speaker 1: working on a podcast about this a while back. And 674 00:38:28,285 --> 00:38:30,085 Speaker 1: then I also did kind of like some other research 675 00:38:30,125 --> 00:38:32,805 Speaker 1: and it turns out that there are six other deaths 676 00:38:32,845 --> 00:38:37,445 Speaker 1: also set in Arkansas, Arkansas. Yes, yep, you said it, 677 00:38:37,645 --> 00:38:39,925 Speaker 1: you did it, you did it. Correct, I'm gonna like 678 00:38:39,965 --> 00:38:43,965 Speaker 1: throw it up, okay, that are actually connected to this 679 00:38:44,085 --> 00:38:49,245 Speaker 1: big drug trafficking conspiracy theory. However, because most conspiracy theories 680 00:38:49,285 --> 00:38:53,045 Speaker 1: do this, this conspiracy is connected to another conspiracy theory ooh, 681 00:38:53,685 --> 00:38:58,965 Speaker 1: called the Clinton body count conspiracy the CBCC, if you will. 682 00:38:59,085 --> 00:39:00,605 Speaker 1: I don't know why we're doing that, but we're doing 683 00:39:00,645 --> 00:39:04,725 Speaker 1: that today. Are you saying that Bill Clinton killed these boys? Great, 684 00:39:04,805 --> 00:39:09,645 Speaker 1: I'm convinced he shot them dead himself. Um. So this 685 00:39:09,765 --> 00:39:14,925 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory argues that the Clintons, yes, Bill Clinton and 686 00:39:15,005 --> 00:39:19,565 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, have murdered over fifty people to cover up 687 00:39:19,645 --> 00:39:22,285 Speaker 1: the bad shit that these people have seen them partaken. 688 00:39:22,725 --> 00:39:25,805 Speaker 1: What bad shit? You might ask? They're just politicians, aren't 689 00:39:25,845 --> 00:39:32,525 Speaker 1: they good guys? Well, yeah, that's what everyone thinks about 690 00:39:32,885 --> 00:39:35,525 Speaker 1: all the time. There's like nothing nuanced to say about, 691 00:39:35,965 --> 00:39:39,805 Speaker 1: which is right, right, Yes, like all politicians, they are perfect. 692 00:39:39,885 --> 00:39:44,085 Speaker 1: And I'm kidding. This is infidelity, money laundering, drug trafficking, 693 00:39:44,245 --> 00:39:47,885 Speaker 1: just stuff like that, you know, white collar crimes, blau 694 00:39:48,165 --> 00:39:52,765 Speaker 1: exactly what I expect every single politician engages in, which 695 00:39:52,805 --> 00:39:56,165 Speaker 1: is why we don't idolize politicians over here. Okay, okay, 696 00:39:56,405 --> 00:39:59,285 Speaker 1: so this conspiracy and I just wanted to research more 697 00:39:59,365 --> 00:40:02,565 Speaker 1: into this conspiracy theory because I found it fascinating and weird, 698 00:40:02,605 --> 00:40:04,485 Speaker 1: and it also felt like a grudge, and sure enough, 699 00:40:04,485 --> 00:40:06,525 Speaker 1: it ended up being a grudge. So it was started 700 00:40:06,565 --> 00:40:11,325 Speaker 1: in the early nineties by this woman who is insane 701 00:40:11,485 --> 00:40:14,645 Speaker 1: or was insane. She died of an opioid overdose, called 702 00:40:14,845 --> 00:40:20,605 Speaker 1: Linda Thompson. Now, this woman was an Indianapolis based founder 703 00:40:20,685 --> 00:40:25,845 Speaker 1: of the American Justice Federation, which was a pro gun 704 00:40:25,925 --> 00:40:32,245 Speaker 1: nonprofit question mark focused on minimizing quote unquote big government, 705 00:40:32,445 --> 00:40:36,325 Speaker 1: and this organization was also a part of what she 706 00:40:36,525 --> 00:40:40,565 Speaker 1: liked to call the unorganized militia of the United States. 707 00:40:40,925 --> 00:40:45,445 Speaker 1: She called herself the acting the acting Adjutant General of 708 00:40:45,485 --> 00:40:49,925 Speaker 1: this militia. Okay, so we can see where her head 709 00:40:49,965 --> 00:40:54,325 Speaker 1: was at. She randomly quit her law job and started 710 00:40:54,325 --> 00:40:58,565 Speaker 1: that American Justice Federation thing, and she was also doing 711 00:40:58,645 --> 00:41:02,165 Speaker 1: conspiracy films on how the Clintons are ruining everything and 712 00:41:02,325 --> 00:41:05,205 Speaker 1: how basically a new world order was going to come 713 00:41:05,245 --> 00:41:07,605 Speaker 1: in and big government was going to put people who 714 00:41:07,645 --> 00:41:10,925 Speaker 1: protest in concentration camps, and she was convinced the black 715 00:41:11,005 --> 00:41:14,205 Speaker 1: helicopters would follow her everywhere. So I think we know 716 00:41:14,365 --> 00:41:19,325 Speaker 1: enough about this woman to see where her head was at. Right. Yeah. Also, 717 00:41:19,685 --> 00:41:23,005 Speaker 1: and this is absolutely bananas to me when I read this, 718 00:41:23,485 --> 00:41:28,005 Speaker 1: she tried to plan an armed march on Washington, DC too. 719 00:41:28,125 --> 00:41:33,765 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. Try Congress members for treason in citizen courts. 720 00:41:34,445 --> 00:41:40,525 Speaker 1: Does this sound familiar to y'all? Ye? Do y'all remember January? Yeah? 721 00:41:40,565 --> 00:41:44,885 Speaker 1: Oh wow? Why when I read that, my jaw dropped. 722 00:41:44,925 --> 00:41:48,365 Speaker 1: And also it was not shocking. I was just like, 723 00:41:48,445 --> 00:41:51,405 Speaker 1: oh right, okay, we should have seen this coming. It 724 00:41:51,405 --> 00:41:53,765 Speaker 1: shouldn't have been a surprise. But anyway, that's just me 725 00:41:53,965 --> 00:41:58,165 Speaker 1: on my soapbox. Point is, basically, the US government is 726 00:41:58,165 --> 00:42:00,245 Speaker 1: an abusive relationship, and the more we look at the 727 00:42:00,285 --> 00:42:03,005 Speaker 1: history of it, the more nothing should be a surprise. Okay, anyway, 728 00:42:04,005 --> 00:42:07,925 Speaker 1: It's early nineties and she hates the Clintons. Do do do? 729 00:42:08,565 --> 00:42:11,285 Speaker 1: She ends up compiling a list of twenty four people 730 00:42:11,365 --> 00:42:15,005 Speaker 1: with vague connections to Bill and Hillary who have died 731 00:42:15,125 --> 00:42:19,325 Speaker 1: under unnatural circumstances, and she sends it over to William E. Danemeyer, 732 00:42:19,525 --> 00:42:23,765 Speaker 1: who is this conservative Republican member of Congress in California. 733 00:42:23,845 --> 00:42:27,925 Speaker 1: And this man reads the list, goes makes sense, takes 734 00:42:27,925 --> 00:42:31,525 Speaker 1: this list and calls for actual hearings on this banana's 735 00:42:31,565 --> 00:42:34,805 Speaker 1: ass list that basically says that Hillary and Bill Clinton 736 00:42:34,845 --> 00:42:38,485 Speaker 1: and killing people. Now, mind you, this man, the Republican 737 00:42:38,525 --> 00:42:43,805 Speaker 1: who backed the list, also backed propositions including mandatory quarantine 738 00:42:43,805 --> 00:42:51,085 Speaker 1: of HIV positive people, banning HIV positive immigrants, banning LGBT 739 00:42:51,245 --> 00:42:55,485 Speaker 1: community as a whole, and other insane as ideas that 740 00:42:55,525 --> 00:42:59,085 Speaker 1: thankfully did not go through. He did, however, and I 741 00:42:59,165 --> 00:43:02,685 Speaker 1: find this hilarious. He ended up reading a graphic depiction 742 00:43:02,805 --> 00:43:07,685 Speaker 1: of quote unquote gay sex allowed into the congressional record, 743 00:43:08,085 --> 00:43:10,965 Speaker 1: and I just my heartly he hates gay sex so much, 744 00:43:11,005 --> 00:43:13,525 Speaker 1: and so my heart just leaps at this homophobic man 745 00:43:13,805 --> 00:43:18,525 Speaker 1: describing golden showers and rimming to Congress that is recorded forever, 746 00:43:18,765 --> 00:43:21,845 Speaker 1: and I love that. Like what for what? He was 747 00:43:22,605 --> 00:43:26,165 Speaker 1: describing it exactly to show you how unnatural it was 748 00:43:26,205 --> 00:43:28,365 Speaker 1: and how crazy it is. I mean, I'm sure there 749 00:43:28,365 --> 00:43:30,525 Speaker 1: were more than a few listeners there that were like, 750 00:43:30,765 --> 00:43:33,685 Speaker 1: this sound kind of exciting. Actually they should have described 751 00:43:33,845 --> 00:43:37,045 Speaker 1: straight sex after work. Yeah, yeah, for real. It's like 752 00:43:37,085 --> 00:43:38,805 Speaker 1: in the Handmad's Tale. You put the PM the V 753 00:43:38,965 --> 00:43:41,325 Speaker 1: and then it's done and there's no eye contact and 754 00:43:42,085 --> 00:43:45,405 Speaker 1: lube what is lube? And it's rape? Okay, now I'm 755 00:43:45,405 --> 00:43:47,805 Speaker 1: gonna have to add rape to trigger warnings. Okay, so 756 00:43:47,885 --> 00:43:51,765 Speaker 1: per everything I have just said. Thankfully, this conspiracy has 757 00:43:51,805 --> 00:43:54,245 Speaker 1: been proven to be false. However, it comes up like 758 00:43:54,285 --> 00:43:57,885 Speaker 1: every few years. It's insane. Like when Epstein died or 759 00:43:58,005 --> 00:44:00,725 Speaker 1: was killed, question Mark, the conspiracy theory came up again, 760 00:44:02,005 --> 00:44:04,565 Speaker 1: back it up, basically, don't believe this conspiracy theory. Now, 761 00:44:04,645 --> 00:44:08,565 Speaker 1: let's back it up to the actual real conspiracy of 762 00:44:08,605 --> 00:44:14,685 Speaker 1: the drug draft trafficking ring in Arkansas. Arkansas, arkansass thank you. 763 00:44:15,245 --> 00:44:19,605 Speaker 1: So these subsequent deaths after the case that Taylor mentioned 764 00:44:19,725 --> 00:44:23,805 Speaker 1: are actually very real, and we're actually connected to a 765 00:44:23,925 --> 00:44:26,965 Speaker 1: larger drug trafficking conspiracy. And I just kind of want 766 00:44:27,005 --> 00:44:30,205 Speaker 1: to go through the victims, their connection with the case, 767 00:44:30,445 --> 00:44:33,885 Speaker 1: and how they died, and then basically I guess end 768 00:44:33,925 --> 00:44:37,605 Speaker 1: it with why has this not been solved yet? Best Mark. 769 00:44:38,045 --> 00:44:42,885 Speaker 1: So let's start with Keith mccaskell. He was an informant 770 00:44:43,005 --> 00:44:46,405 Speaker 1: for the grand jury investigator and he had taken some 771 00:44:46,485 --> 00:44:49,485 Speaker 1: aerial pictures of the scene of the crime. It seems 772 00:44:49,485 --> 00:44:53,165 Speaker 1: like he has some information. He was stabbed one hundred 773 00:44:53,205 --> 00:44:57,765 Speaker 1: and thirteen times in nineteen eighty eight. Oh, that's so 774 00:44:57,845 --> 00:45:01,445 Speaker 1: many times. So that was a year after the Boys 775 00:45:02,045 --> 00:45:04,805 Speaker 1: on the Train. Yeah, that's like Julius Caesar level of stabbing, 776 00:45:05,125 --> 00:45:10,325 Speaker 1: but like four times Julius Caesar precisely, he's not even 777 00:45:10,365 --> 00:45:12,685 Speaker 1: an Emperor. I know, it's crazy. He must have had 778 00:45:12,725 --> 00:45:18,285 Speaker 1: really intense information. And then Gregory Collins was also supposed 779 00:45:18,325 --> 00:45:21,325 Speaker 1: to testify in front of a grand jury about the murders, 780 00:45:21,765 --> 00:45:25,885 Speaker 1: but he died because he has he was shot in 781 00:45:25,925 --> 00:45:32,245 Speaker 1: the face with a shotgun three times. So another like, hey, police, 782 00:45:32,365 --> 00:45:33,965 Speaker 1: what's up? Like, what's going on? Do you want to 783 00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:35,845 Speaker 1: look into this? You know two people have already died. 784 00:45:36,325 --> 00:45:39,485 Speaker 1: Police are like, no, I don't think so. Similar to Gregory, 785 00:45:40,005 --> 00:45:43,645 Speaker 1: Jeff Rhodes. Right before he was killed, he confessed to 786 00:45:43,725 --> 00:45:46,205 Speaker 1: his parents that he knew too much about the case, 787 00:45:46,565 --> 00:45:49,005 Speaker 1: and then sure enough he was shot in the head 788 00:45:49,325 --> 00:45:54,005 Speaker 1: and thrown in a dumpster. And it seems like his 789 00:45:54,405 --> 00:45:57,245 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend or someone that was seeing him confessed later 790 00:45:57,845 --> 00:46:03,245 Speaker 1: to killing him but didn't get arrested or anything. And 791 00:46:04,005 --> 00:46:06,685 Speaker 1: it just like that that compassion just sat there, so 792 00:46:07,405 --> 00:46:11,685 Speaker 1: totally fine, totally fine, and then yeah, it's totally normal. 793 00:46:11,765 --> 00:46:15,005 Speaker 1: And then Richard Winters, he was a suspect in the case, 794 00:46:15,405 --> 00:46:18,445 Speaker 1: and it seems like I guess he and some people 795 00:46:18,445 --> 00:46:20,445 Speaker 1: that he trusted that he shouldn't have trusted, did a 796 00:46:20,525 --> 00:46:22,685 Speaker 1: robbery and then the robbery was actually a set up 797 00:46:22,685 --> 00:46:25,925 Speaker 1: to kill him. So he died because he was killed. 798 00:46:26,165 --> 00:46:29,965 Speaker 1: And then the last one that I found is Keith Coney, 799 00:46:30,085 --> 00:46:32,645 Speaker 1: And this is just insane. It seems like he was 800 00:46:32,685 --> 00:46:36,605 Speaker 1: with the two boys that night and then escaped, and 801 00:46:36,805 --> 00:46:39,965 Speaker 1: the murderers later found him and tried to cut him 802 00:46:40,205 --> 00:46:42,965 Speaker 1: in his throat, and then he got on his motorcycle 803 00:46:43,045 --> 00:46:45,525 Speaker 1: and tried to escape again, and then they chased him 804 00:46:45,525 --> 00:46:47,685 Speaker 1: and he lost control because they had split some of 805 00:46:47,685 --> 00:46:51,285 Speaker 1: his throat, and his motorcycle crash and he died. So 806 00:46:51,365 --> 00:46:54,245 Speaker 1: here's the problem with this case in general, is because 807 00:46:54,245 --> 00:46:57,565 Speaker 1: it turned into this huge conspiracy theory which is called 808 00:46:57,725 --> 00:47:00,365 Speaker 1: Arkanside or the Clinton body count. They kind of like 809 00:47:00,445 --> 00:47:04,165 Speaker 1: merged the two because it's become such a conspiracy theory 810 00:47:04,165 --> 00:47:06,765 Speaker 1: as well. There's so many there's so much to weed 811 00:47:06,845 --> 00:47:09,685 Speaker 1: through to figure out like what's what's true and what's 812 00:47:10,205 --> 00:47:12,685 Speaker 1: because so many people are just making stuff exactly so 813 00:47:13,005 --> 00:47:16,245 Speaker 1: it's so there are a lot of like conflicting there's 814 00:47:16,245 --> 00:47:19,725 Speaker 1: some conflicting stuff out there. So that's another reason why 815 00:47:19,725 --> 00:47:22,405 Speaker 1: it makes it so difficult to figure out like what 816 00:47:22,565 --> 00:47:25,605 Speaker 1: is actually going. Yeah, I feel like I put in 817 00:47:26,205 --> 00:47:29,645 Speaker 1: like I'm I'm saying the information that I found in 818 00:47:30,485 --> 00:47:34,805 Speaker 1: like minimum multiple sources because other if you if you 819 00:47:34,805 --> 00:47:37,165 Speaker 1: don't do that, you're just gonna end up on far 820 00:47:37,365 --> 00:47:40,125 Speaker 1: far right websites and it's gonna be like, hey, Bill Clinton, 821 00:47:40,165 --> 00:47:43,365 Speaker 1: actually he was in his um true form, which is 822 00:47:43,365 --> 00:47:46,405 Speaker 1: his lizard body, and he went up to the boys 823 00:47:46,485 --> 00:47:48,845 Speaker 1: and shot them because they saw him in his lizard body. 824 00:47:48,965 --> 00:47:51,125 Speaker 1: And then you'll be like, Okay, yeah, let me say 825 00:47:51,165 --> 00:47:55,045 Speaker 1: that couldn't use a gun. Yeah, they have like little 826 00:47:55,085 --> 00:47:58,885 Speaker 1: tongues for hands. Yeah, they couldn't shoot a gun exactly. 827 00:47:58,925 --> 00:48:05,805 Speaker 1: So I definitely believe that there's something insanely fishy around 828 00:48:05,845 --> 00:48:09,005 Speaker 1: this case. The fact that it still hasn't been figured 829 00:48:09,045 --> 00:48:12,645 Speaker 1: out or resolved, and it's been you know, decades at 830 00:48:12,645 --> 00:48:14,405 Speaker 1: this point now and it's been proven that it's a 831 00:48:14,445 --> 00:48:17,965 Speaker 1: homicide is insane. Why are y'all trying to keep it quiet? Why? 832 00:48:18,045 --> 00:48:20,925 Speaker 1: Like who are you protecting? Who? Who are you hiding? However, 833 00:48:21,405 --> 00:48:24,525 Speaker 1: are the Clinton's assassinating multiple people? Yeah, babe, I don't 834 00:48:24,525 --> 00:48:28,405 Speaker 1: think so. And also like, please don't get into conspiracy theories. 835 00:48:28,405 --> 00:48:31,885 Speaker 1: They're so so unhealthy, they really are. You go into 836 00:48:31,925 --> 00:48:35,365 Speaker 1: such a rabbit hole, which is essentially what happened like year, 837 00:48:35,485 --> 00:48:37,605 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago whenever I started this, going 838 00:48:37,645 --> 00:48:41,325 Speaker 1: into this weird rabbit hole of yeah, of what of 839 00:48:41,325 --> 00:48:43,525 Speaker 1: what potentially happened to I I mean like book Bill Clinton 840 00:48:43,685 --> 00:48:45,565 Speaker 1: was just governor at that time, and so they're like, 841 00:48:45,645 --> 00:48:49,365 Speaker 1: therefore it is his fault, you know that, like he 842 00:48:49,485 --> 00:48:51,845 Speaker 1: knew about it, and like let it happen or whatever. 843 00:48:52,565 --> 00:48:56,405 Speaker 1: Respect people who want to know things like I really do, 844 00:48:56,725 --> 00:48:59,685 Speaker 1: but I self identify as a bimbo, and for me 845 00:48:59,765 --> 00:49:02,685 Speaker 1: it's like okay, like I don't I don't need to 846 00:49:02,725 --> 00:49:04,925 Speaker 1: know this and I really don't care quite frankly, let 847 00:49:05,005 --> 00:49:08,325 Speaker 1: me go, like watch my shows now, goodbye. People aren't 848 00:49:08,445 --> 00:49:12,405 Speaker 1: very good at like accepting that sometimes, Like you can't 849 00:49:12,485 --> 00:49:14,925 Speaker 1: sit in the unknown. We're really bad at doing that 850 00:49:15,125 --> 00:49:18,125 Speaker 1: as humans. We're just like we can't. We are like 851 00:49:18,205 --> 00:49:21,165 Speaker 1: we need to prescribe reason to everything, even though we 852 00:49:21,205 --> 00:49:23,645 Speaker 1: don't have all the information. I know, I'm so comfy 853 00:49:23,645 --> 00:49:25,445 Speaker 1: with the unknown. Like I don't even know where babies 854 00:49:25,485 --> 00:49:27,725 Speaker 1: come from. Like I'm just so comfy with me. You know, 855 00:49:29,205 --> 00:49:33,605 Speaker 1: I think you find them at the baby farm. That's 856 00:49:33,605 --> 00:49:37,085 Speaker 1: another conspiracy degree. That's like birth control. We're not really 857 00:49:37,085 --> 00:49:40,285 Speaker 1: sure how it works. Oh my gosh, yes, well they 858 00:49:40,405 --> 00:49:43,405 Speaker 1: well birth control. That's a conspiracy. I don't think it's real. 859 00:49:43,885 --> 00:49:45,885 Speaker 1: I hope so or else? Why do I have this 860 00:49:45,925 --> 00:49:49,005 Speaker 1: thing up my vagina? Okay, that's the microchip they put 861 00:49:49,045 --> 00:49:51,525 Speaker 1: it in all the girls. Oh, fun, fun, fun. No, 862 00:49:51,605 --> 00:49:53,445 Speaker 1: I have my micros one of those two. Yeah, I 863 00:49:53,485 --> 00:49:57,285 Speaker 1: have my microchip from the vaccine. Everyone get microchip. Well, 864 00:49:57,405 --> 00:50:01,005 Speaker 1: this has been wonderful. I am so sorry to our 865 00:50:01,045 --> 00:50:03,805 Speaker 1: listeners that we cannot solve this case for you. I 866 00:50:03,845 --> 00:50:06,485 Speaker 1: know it, like it's really frustra in, really hard. But 867 00:50:07,325 --> 00:50:10,165 Speaker 1: you know, we can only dedicate so many hours to 868 00:50:10,245 --> 00:50:14,005 Speaker 1: this podcast. So true, But yeah you can. You can 869 00:50:14,005 --> 00:50:20,005 Speaker 1: set up a email hot temps. Yeah, go join the 870 00:50:20,085 --> 00:50:23,485 Speaker 1: chat rooms ruin your life? No, please, don't like, go 871 00:50:23,605 --> 00:50:26,685 Speaker 1: make healthy decisions. Go outside. Go outside. Oh yeah, go 872 00:50:26,725 --> 00:50:29,445 Speaker 1: on a walk. That's a good idea instead of going 873 00:50:29,485 --> 00:50:33,165 Speaker 1: on a chat room. Go make healthy decisions basically. And also, 874 00:50:33,605 --> 00:50:35,365 Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. I don't know if that 875 00:50:35,405 --> 00:50:37,405 Speaker 1: was a healthy decision for you, but I'm glad that 876 00:50:37,405 --> 00:50:54,325 Speaker 1: you stuck through it. See you next week. Cadavergals is 877 00:50:54,325 --> 00:50:56,965 Speaker 1: a production of School of Humans and I Heeartradio. It 878 00:50:57,125 --> 00:51:03,125 Speaker 1: is produced, recorded, research, written, etc. And hosted by Gabby Watts, 879 00:51:03,165 --> 00:51:07,565 Speaker 1: Taylor Church, and Nika. You can find us on Instagram 880 00:51:07,565 --> 00:51:09,445 Speaker 1: and Twitter at Cadaver Gaals