WEBVTT - Bob Ezrin pt 1 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sex Podcast. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:17.920 My guest today is legendary music producer, philanthropists, the straw 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.880 that stirs the drink, Bob Ezra Bob. That's very funny. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.560 I've never had that intro people, the straw that stirs 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.640 the drake, like all the people. That's what they said 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.040 about Reggie Jackson when he joined the Yankees. He said 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.479 that about himself. And you're so different from other record 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.440 producers in that especially people who started when you started. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.400 Most of them are done okay, but you have ventured 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.279 into other areas and I certainly know that you are 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.000 literally the straw that stirs to drink. You make things happen, 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.640 You make music rising happen. You made a lot of 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.120 other things. We'll get into some of that, but right 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.160 now you are aware of Bob. Right now, I'm in Toronto, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.440 which you know, which is where jan and I came. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.520 We were we were actually in the Bahamas when things 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.600 started to blow up. I was writing for the book, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.840 you know that. I was that I've been threatening to 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.640 write for years, so I was writing and then, um, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.240 you know, one night, she just said, you know, I 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:16.800 don't I don't think we ought to get stuck here. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.520 This could be very bad. So we came up to Toronto, um, 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.319 where we have a home, and and then they shut 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.400 all the borders. I was going to head back down 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.920 to Nashville, but that's just not gonna happen for a while. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.280 How much time do you spend? Weird? How much time 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.319 are you in Toronto and Nashville on the road at 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:40.800 this point in time? Yes? Yes? Okay? Someone, uh, you 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.840 know what to listen. Um, I love I love our 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.760 home here in Toronto and um and I love our 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.480 place in the Bahamas because it's just a little place. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.640 But I love the ocean and just looking out my 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.480 window at the ocean every morning is beautiful. But I 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.440 love I love Nashville for working and um and and 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.840 living too. Do you know it's a happening city, as 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.680 you know, a lot of people. They're doing some really 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:09.200 exciting and interesting things. And it's really easy to work there. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.600 It's perhaps the easiest place I've ever recorded. Amplify that 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.519 for us. Well, you know, first of all, um, it's 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:21.480 a it's a music recording town. So New York is 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.720 a music town, but it's a music offices town. And 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.600 business town. There is a lot of music going on 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.120 there that's being recorded, but it isn't the backbone of 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.960 the whole place, whereas you know, Nashville was really uh, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:38.040 it's really got three industries. It's got insurance, healthcare and 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.560 music as the primary industries of Nashville. And and in 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:47.600 in Nashville there are studios every fifty paces. It's it's 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.840 quite remarkable. At least thing you know in my neighborhood, 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.360 like the two doors down as a studio across the 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.239 street directly as the studio it's Ron Fair Studio. Ron 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.920 moved there, and right behind him is uh is Blackbird, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.840 which is maybe the biggest studio in Nashville and certainly 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:08.959 the largest mic collection in Nashville, possibly the world. And 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.600 and you've got to uh, you have a cadre of 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.079 really professional session musicians, like the top of the food chain. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.520 And these these were all people who you know, they 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:27.079 became virtuosic and uh and probably a genre was too 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.360 small for them. And and and yet if you're not 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.880 in a band or or doing something as a recording artist, 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.120 it's hard to make a lot of money. But they 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.440 discovered that their talents are very valuable to people like me, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.000 and and country artists who are solo artists, and and 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.920 pop singers who don't have a band, and things like that. 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.960 So we hire these people to make the music. And 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.000 and you can get a band together of people who 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.280 are literally the best, the best at their instrument in 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.640 the world in Nashville and I often do you know, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.760 I often have like an amazing group of players who 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.560 are relatively unknown to the outside world, but who in 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.320 the music world are legendary. So we have a we 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.400 have a room full of legends. Okay, just a little deeper, 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.599 because the session musician world has died in Los Angeles. 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.320 Can these people you've called to do sessions? Can they 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.920 make a living in Nashville being session people? Oh, they 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.120 can make a very good living in Nashville being session musicians. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.880 Some of them are, you know, some of them are 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.919 making a significant amount of money. Others are having to 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.520 augment that with you know, other forms of playing, like 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.440 going out on the road with certain artists or playing, um, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.640 you know, after hours and at shows within Nashville. But 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.800 you can make a living in Nashville and not be 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.440 the featured performer, which is hard to say about just 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:58.200 about any place else. And there's lots of them. They 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.159 come from all over the world there, you know, Like 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:05.080 on the first session, the first um uh you know, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.280 first session that I did in Nashville where I used 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.240 session players, one of the guitar players was a kid 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.200 from Russia who was like a shredder. He was an 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.320 awesome guitar player. But he found, you know, that he 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.960 could actually make a living coming to Nashville. He was 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.919 an insane reader and and uh and he had a 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.359 great memory, and he found he found a part for 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.880 himself right away. And and there are some drummers in 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.040 that town that uh, you know, I would put up 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.800 against the greatest drummers and the greatest bands that we've 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.000 ever seen. And and the same thing with you know, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.560 keyboard players. And and if you need someone to play 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.279 a sack butt as you often do, but you can 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.680 pick up the musicians directory and there's a dude in 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.360 Nashville who can play the sack but you know, or 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.760 and or there's a there's a woman who can clog 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.960 dance if you need the sound of you know, dancing 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.760 on your record. You know. Um, so there's anything you 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.040 can think of, Like one day I was producing somebody, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.800 and I just had this crazy notion. It was the 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:10.760 sort of crossover track. And this was before um this 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.960 was before Mumford and Sons. But I had this idea 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.000 that I really wanted to hear lead banjo on this 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:21.600 pretty rocking track. So I called Bela Fleck. I said, Bella, 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.200 what are you doing this afternoon? He said, well, I 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.760 you know, I got a meeting at five o'clock on 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:27.880 music Row, but I'm not busy. Now what's up? And 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.120 I said, can you come over? I I need a 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.600 banjo solo. He was there within an hour, and the 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.040 and the people I was working with when he walked 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:36.640 in the door, they just looked at me like, you 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.440 gotta be kidding. But but that's the town that it is. 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:45.599 Emmy Lou Harris loves to do backing vocals really for example, yes, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.040 she's and and you know and and there's lots of uh, 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.480 you know, very well known people who who I mean? 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.279 Vince Gill plays lead guitar on one of the Alice 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.880 Cooper Cooper tracks from an album years ago. You know, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.680 I invited Vince to come on and he shredded. He 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:10.040 was unbelievable. He was so good that that Alice's touring band, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.880 which has you know, professional shredders in it. They could 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.960 not cop his solo, so that song never went into 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:22.360 never went into the show. Okay, you certainly, as we 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.760 go deeper, have been in many genres, but you're most 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.520 famous for the rock genre. Nashville was historically a country town. 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.720 Uh is it more types of music and Nashville now 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.320 or the players can do everything. How does your work 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.040 meld with the Nashville scene. Most of the players, as 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.760 I said, there are people who come from elsewhere, and 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.440 a lot of them, including Dan Huff, who's one of 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:51.840 the top producers of all time in Nashville. Um, you know, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.560 they come from rock bands that maybe didn't you know, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.880 didn't quite make it, or they did make it and 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.440 then they stopped, or they come from jazz, or they 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.440 come from classical. There's a great string player in Nashville 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.920 that can do anything you can think of. You you 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.280 need anything that's got strings on it, he can play it. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.640 And he's a classical violinist who moved to Nashville and 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.320 now he's doing country fiddle and and but at the 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.880 same time he can do heart anger fiddle, which is 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.880 a Norwegian instrument. He can play cello and it's just 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:27.240 anything you want. So um. So you have players who 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:32.440 are very versatile. Okay, Certainly in the old days for 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.360 all the cockers like us, you know, you have to 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.640 practice in order to break into the scene. Supposedly Dwayne 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.920 Almond took his guitar even to the bathroom. Certainly you 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.600 have the elite players in Nashville. But do you think 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.120 this is a problem today where people can promote their 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.760 music online, that they're not as skilled in their instruments 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.800 as they once were. I don't think that's quite true. 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.720 I think that the operative words are their own instrument. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.200 And what's happened in the world is that instruments have 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:09.720 changed and kids play. They play computers, they play um sequencers, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.240 they they play drum machines and pads and samplers and 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.400 anything they can get their hands on. And they make 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.800 these very crafty, uh compositions that you know, they show 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.640 that they can play their medium, whatever that medium might be. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.000 And I think they're easily as good as any kid 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.720 who is wood shedding on lead guitar when I was 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.200 sixteen or seventeen years old and then bleeding into another 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.240 element where we have commonality. Now you talk to a 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.520 lot of these great players, and it turns out they 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.440 learned how to play in school. Like Nathan East, he 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.200 learned how to play in school. I know that something 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.920 you have a great affinity for. Can you tell us 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.880 about that? I think that in cultures where music was 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.280 ingrained as a part of learning experience, and where people 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.760 were actually taught how to express themselves using music, that 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.040 you who ended up with people who had um you know, 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.320 not just a greater affinity for the for the art form, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.120 but a different way of seeing and thinking and hearing 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.360 and expressing, you know, a different way of speaking. They 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.439 found out they don't have to use words, they use 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.359 sound and stuff. And once you start practicing a new language, 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.000 once you really get into it, it becomes like an infection. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.160 You can't get rid of it. You dream about it, 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.319 you think about it, you live with it all the time. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.760 And we're missing that in North America now, we're missing 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.040 that in in a way that many European nations are. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.480 You know, they still have I mean, why are the 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.320 Swedes so successful in America in pop music? Why is 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.040 why is worldwide pop music defined by Swedish people? It's 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.800 because they have a phenomenal music education system and it 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.920 goes beyond their regular school, beyond high school. There's a 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.360 post graduate uh, whole set of postgraduate schools that you 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.440 can go to to learn about songwriting and produce, sing 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.800 and and uh and how to get better at the 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.520 instrument that you play. Here in in North America, we've got, like, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.440 you know, a few schools that people can go to 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.640 where this is true. But for the most part, music 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.400 has been removed. It's no longer considered to be UM 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.600 an essential course. It's considered to be an elective. And 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.680 you know that with shrinking budgets and school boards that 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.440 are just trying to make ends meet, the first stuff 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.040 that goes is the you know, are all the electives, 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.800 especially the ones that require equipment and investment. So music 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.600 education has hurt a lot in North America since that 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.559 became true. When I was a kid, music was one 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.520 of the courses I had to take. By the way, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.040 so was art and so was literature. In not in 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:55.480 not helping the entire child to evolve that uh, communicating 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:01.720 emotional passionate little being, and not in allowing them the 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.679 all the expression that's at their at their disposal. Naturally, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.359 while we're trying to teach them, we're kind of copyholding 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.240 them into a much much grayer, less exciting existence, and 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.120 you end up with a bunch of people who sit 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.000 in the corner and look down, whether it's at their 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.360 cell phone or their keyboard or whatever. What we really 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.160 want is people who get together and uh and share 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:30.800 and sing together and play together and create things together. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.680 Because what we need right now is to create a 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.360 whole new world. Actually, you're not going to do that 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.800 with You're not gonna do that with small thinkers. What 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.080 do you need mean in terms is you talking about 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.440 specifically about music or the world at large? A whole 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.160 new I mean the world at large. I mean when 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.240 you look at what's going on in the United States, 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.360 when while we're talking, there are riots in the streets 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.640 of twenty five cities in the United States. Is a 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.960 reaction to an on camera murder, the death of someone 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.240 that we all got to watch. I'll tell you a 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.840 little story, so I don't want to throw anybody under 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.840 the bus. In fact, I'll just say that when in 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.440 a situation where I was commenting on the video of 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.880 Eric Garner being strangled to death um to someone who 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.439 was in the healthcare business. I'll just leave it that general, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.520 I just said, I just I just looked at it 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.760 in complete disbelief, and my stomach was turning. And I 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.280 looked at the guy and I just went, can you 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.880 believe that? And he goes, no, man, he says, you know, 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.400 my friends, the policeman, he won't even go in their 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.720 neighborhoods anymore. And I just turned to the guy and 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:44.000 I just said, are you shipping me? You're a healthcare professional, 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.080 and that's what you got out of this. You're a 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.720 person who supposedly dedicated to saving human life, and that's 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.439 what you got out of this picture. And at that moment, 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.040 I mean, I just realized that we have a systemic 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.679 endemic disease in our culture. And it's not just America. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.280 People like to point fingers in America, but for you know, 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.440 it's it's happening any place where the predominant culture was 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:14.800 white and uh, Northern European even more so than Southern. Now. 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.280 I was in a cab once and the driver told 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.240 me in Toronto that more different languages are spoken in 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:25.080 Toronto than any other berg on the planet. So one 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.840 has to ask, you know, we are really inward looking 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.240 in the United States. To someone who is certainly traveling 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.680 a lot in both countries, what is the same or 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.640 different about Canada? How much time do we have about 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.760 but we don't have two hours to talk about Canada. No, 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.240 I didn't think so, but you know what, look, I 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.880 was in l A during the riots. I actually went 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.320 to work in the basement of the First Amy Church 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.600 and watts UH for months after the riots, um and 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.560 working on food distribution and other things where I thought 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.880 my efforts be more useful than being in a studio 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.040 making rock records. At that time, it was a critical moment, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.520 wasn't it. It was a moment where we really thought 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.800 we may lose our town altogether. And then we have 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.040 this organization called Rebuild l A, which I also took 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:18.160 part in, and at least we recognized at the time 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:24.120 that we were facing massive UH, institutional and structural problems 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.720 within our society. We tried to change them. I'm saddened 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.520 by what I see now because it's clear, UH the 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:37.120 evidence shows we failed in Canada. The primary difference in 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.760 Canada is that there wasn't a slave trade in Canada. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.560 There were slaves in the East Coast, by the way, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.640 there were whole colonies of slaves, and the people don't 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.960 even know about Nova Scotia UM. And there are still 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.720 little townships that are just they're all black, they're all 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:59.120 African Canadian UM. But primarily the the people UH who 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.520 came from the West Indies and came from Africa came 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.600 here of their own volition, and they, you know, they 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.560 came to make a good life for themselves and for 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.600 their families and defind their fortune, just like everybody else. 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.560 And this is a nation of immigrants all the way around. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:21.480 So the Canadians have tried to be what they have 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.200 referred to as a multicultural society. Sometimes it works really well. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.920 Sometimes it doesn't work very well at all. There's a 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:32.920 guy on TV on CTV UM who does an entertainment 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.560 show and he is UM, an African Canadian. I guess 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.920 I would call him he maybe UH a West Indian 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.680 Canadian originally, but he refers to himself as a black man. 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.880 He's a black man. Who saw that video and who 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.720 was then on the Canadian version of the View the 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.240 next day and they asked him how he felt he 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.640 started up being a media guy. He started off saying 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.240 I'm fine and things. You know, it's really terrible. We 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.680 have to work and so, and then slowly but surely 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:08.200 he began to fall apart and then he lost words, 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.040 and he said, you know me, I've never at a 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.240 loss for words. And then he started to cry, and 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:14.800 then he started to say, you know, I don't want 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.520 to be this guy. I don't want to be the 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.480 angry black man. But the truth is I am. I'm 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.080 an angry black man because I have to watch what 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.000 I say, what I look like, what I do every 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.399 time I enter a room. And that's up here, you 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:35.000 know where people like to think that we're okay. It's everywhere. Uh, 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.640 it's worse in the United States because there's more polarization 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.720 right now in the US than I've ever seen anywhere. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.240 I mean, you know, I've I lived in I've lived 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.919 in the United States and million an American citizen for 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.760 decades and decades. I'm a student of America. I love America. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.119 You know, I chose it. It didn't choose me. So 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.640 I came. I came because I wanted to be there 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.280 and and because I wanted to be active, and I 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.760 wanted to be political and I wanted to get involved. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.600 So for me, it's very difficult to see where we 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.639 are right now. For me after after being a member 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.240 of SNICK, after marching, after you know, as I say, 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.200 working in the basement of the First aim E Church, 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.800 after after working with mentoring and after school programs, and 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.359 all the time and energy that I put in, to 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.840 have to admit to myself that a lot of this 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.640 was really not for anything at all. Okay, let's talk 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.919 about music in the era of chaos. Certainly when you 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.359 started out in the folk scene in Toronto, you're aware 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.720 of that folk music drove protests. Certainly ten years later, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:45.159 eight years later, we had literally fifty years ago Kent State, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:50.399 we had Crossbasels, Nash and Young, Ohio. What is music's place? 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.640 Where is music relative to the cutting edge of culture 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.240 and all these problems today? Listen, I think music has 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.440 always been the voice of the people. It's a it's 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.200 an easy way to communicate and and and it has 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.840 been since we were private primitive beings and didn't even 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.680 have words. We just sing out and somebody would would 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:09.919 repeat it back to us, and we knew we had 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.640 a friend. So music has always been at the forefront 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:16.520 of everything always and it's always told the news. It's 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.840 always had the news before the news was news. It 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.880 was I was growing up. It was a pretty comfortable 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:27.000 but very white environment. My dad was the first Jewish 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.720 doctor allowed on staff at the Toronto General Hospital. That 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.359 that happened in the middle fifties. In Toronto until the sixties, 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.720 we had restricted clubs where there were no Jews, no Blacks, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:43.360 no not I think not even Catholics allowed, And in 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:48.200 Canada had residential schools. These are things where they would 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.960 take First Nation's children from their families, out of their tribe, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.880 put them in a church run school so they could 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.560 learn to be white and Protestant or Catholic or whatever 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.880 the religio and was of the school, and they would 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.600 not let them go home, and they wouldn't let them 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.679 speak their own language. They called them residential schools. The 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.120 last one was closed in the early nineties. So there 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.600 was always here a voice that had to be heard, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.480 and the only way it could be heard was through 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.399 all what would you would call sort of underground or 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.439 alternative media, and it was coming out of music. That 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.800 was the place. You couldn't see it on TV. You 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.840 would certainly wouldn't get it in, you know, in nice 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:33.920 establishments or or proper society. You got it on the streets. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.600 You got it in on Yorkville Avenue, which during the sixties, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.399 during the middle sixties and late sixties was kind of 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.639 the third leg of the folk stool. There was Greenwich Village, 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:48.080 the gas Light District, and Yorkville Village where everyone played 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.520 and people came from all over to do it. My 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.960 uncle was a half owner in a club on Yorkville, 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.280 which was a terrific advantage for me as a kid. 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.720 You know. He in fact, he played a really large 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.639 role in my life and and in turning me onto 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.240 all kinds of music and and stereo equipment and all 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.679 that sort of stuff. He was a cool dude. But 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.800 he had this club called the Penny Farthing where I 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.199 would play in the basement with braces on my teeth 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.480 badly to four or five people who couldn't afford to 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.800 sit in the main room. And and upstairs there were 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.640 artists going through, like this beautiful blonde girl from out 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.440 West called Joni Anderson, who had just come to Toronto, 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.720 had not yet married Chuck Mitchell, had just found out 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:34.919 she was pregnant. When I spoke to Joni about it, 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.600 she said, did you know I was pregnant? I said, 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.320 I would have married you anyway. I was, you know, 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.200 I was so but she was older than me. You 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.040 know that she wasn't looking at at the kid with 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.159 the braces in the basement. But you know, jose Feliciano 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.480 played his first North American gig in that room and 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.000 lots of other people. And the next door there was 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:57.159 a band called um the I think the band was 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.679 called the Minor Bird, and that was Neil Young Rick James, 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.920 and they were a soul band. They like horns and 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.879 and dance moves and everything. And at a couple of 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:09.560 doors down from there, and then we had a band 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.840 called the Sparrow, which was John k Uh and Mars 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.439 Bonfire who went on to become Stepan Wolf. But but 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:21.959 around the corner, these two um African American folk singers 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.120 called Joe and Edtie played their first Canadian gig. They 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.200 came up there. They were protest singers, like in the 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.960 real sense of the word. They had a song on 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.040 the radio called There's a Meeting here Tonight. I don't 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:34.560 know if you remember that. You may be too young. 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:37.560 We've talked about it before, so that's all I know. It, okay, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.840 so um. And they had stories to tell, and they 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.040 spoke with a Southern drawl, and they were just from 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.920 another planet. Were listening to them play at the same time. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.360 My uncle also discovered Lonnie Johnson in the in the 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.240 in the men's toilet of a Chicago hotel where he 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.119