WEBVTT - Manchin Still a Huge Factor on Energy in New Congress

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<v Speaker 1>All right, now that we know we're working with on

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<v Speaker 1>Capitol Hill more or less, what does that mean for

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<v Speaker 1>environmental policy over the next two years and what does

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<v Speaker 1>that mean for the rest of this year? On this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we talk about Congress, Energy, the environment, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Mansion. Hello, and welcome back once again to Parts

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<v Speaker 1>per Billion, the environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>David Schultz. So today's episode is brought to you by

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<v Speaker 1>the number one eighteen. As in, the Congress is about

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<v Speaker 1>to begin at the beginning of next year, and after

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<v Speaker 1>this month's midterm elections, we now have a pretty good

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<v Speaker 1>idea of who's going to be serving in it. Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>will retain control of the Senate with either the same

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<v Speaker 1>majority they have now or maybe one extra seat to

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<v Speaker 1>make a Republicans Meanwhile, we'll take over control of the House,

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<v Speaker 1>but with a razor thin majority that maybe in the

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<v Speaker 1>single digits. To go over what all this will mean

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<v Speaker 1>for energy environmental policy, we'll be hearing from Kelly Lunney,

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Government energy reporter who prowsed the halls of the

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<v Speaker 1>House and Senate for us. In a bit you'll get

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<v Speaker 1>into why the Democratic senator from West Virginia will be

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<v Speaker 1>as powerful as ever in Congress. But first I asked

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<v Speaker 1>her to tell me how the waning hours of the

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<v Speaker 1>v will go. Yes, we've got the National Defense Authorization Act,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a very very important piece of legislation that

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<v Speaker 1>typically is bipartisan. Get it's one of the few things

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<v Speaker 1>that Congress can agree on needs to get done every year.

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<v Speaker 1>Um and it often carries a lot of other things

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<v Speaker 1>in it, but it sets defense policy and it also

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<v Speaker 1>authorizes defense appropriations, which is obviously very important for funding

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<v Speaker 1>the military, pay raises for military members, etcetera. Yeah, there

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<v Speaker 1>aren't a lot of lawmakers who want to be seen

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, blocking a military funding bill, correct, And

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<v Speaker 1>they do try to keep you know, like a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of must pass legislation. Things get included in it that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, aren't necessarily what everybody would like. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit different from the Omnibus in this sense

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<v Speaker 1>that they really do try to keep it focused on

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<v Speaker 1>defense related UM and defense for adjacent issues UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't typically become the Christmas tree type of vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>that that the Omnibus, the year end spending bill does. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get into that Christmas Tree, and you're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, the annual or it's supposed to be

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<v Speaker 1>annual funding bill that pays for the rest of the government. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like there could be some significant environmental or

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<v Speaker 1>energy writers that get attached to that or will there

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<v Speaker 1>be well, you know, I think you know, Congress always

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<v Speaker 1>waits till the last minute to do this bill for

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<v Speaker 1>many reasons. I think, um partly because the closer we

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<v Speaker 1>get to the holidays, the more incentive people have to

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<v Speaker 1>actually get something done so they can all leave and

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<v Speaker 1>go home. As far as this year, you know, they'll

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<v Speaker 1>they'll certainly looked to to try to fund all of

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<v Speaker 1>the appropriations bills, including Interior Environment and the Energy and

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<v Speaker 1>Water Bill, which is to the two bills that have

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<v Speaker 1>the bulk of funding for energy and environment programs. So

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<v Speaker 1>those will be in there at the levels that they've

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<v Speaker 1>agreed to. They'll probably end up really going with the

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<v Speaker 1>House versions just because of the Senate has not gotten

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<v Speaker 1>as far um with their spending bills as the House has,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's kind of been the case for the last

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years. I want to specifically get into one

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<v Speaker 1>item that did not get swept up into the Inflation

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<v Speaker 1>Reduction Act from earlier this year, and that was permitting reform,

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<v Speaker 1>which was a pet project of Senator Joe Manchin. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he wasn't able to get that across the finish line.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think he will be able to get that

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<v Speaker 1>in the lame duck session. I think it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a very, very difficult for him to do that

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<v Speaker 1>because he has often said he wants to perform the

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<v Speaker 1>federal permitting process. The permitting process by which energy projects

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<v Speaker 1>are done, it is fairly bureaucratic, it can take a

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<v Speaker 1>really long time. Sometimes things are you know, in litigation forever,

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<v Speaker 1>and it can affect reasonable projects. And that's fossil fuel projects,

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<v Speaker 1>that's renewable energy projects, that's infrastructure projects. It can be

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<v Speaker 1>it can be difficult, But there's also a reason why

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<v Speaker 1>we have these things in place so that um environmental

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<v Speaker 1>reviews are done and people are able to have input

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<v Speaker 1>into what these projects look like and ensure that they

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<v Speaker 1>don't harm you know, communities, particularly communities of color, who

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<v Speaker 1>are already overburdened with pollution, that they don't negatively affect habitat,

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<v Speaker 1>wildlife things like that. So there's a reason why we

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<v Speaker 1>have this, but I think both you know, Democrats and

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans to some degree agree that there needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>some overhauling of how it works currently. Centator Mansion was

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<v Speaker 1>interested in doing it because there is a big project

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<v Speaker 1>in his state called the Mountain Valley Pipeline that has

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<v Speaker 1>been on the books for almost ten years now. It's

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<v Speaker 1>been delayed numerous times because of this permitting process. There's

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<v Speaker 1>been environmental reviews, there's been litigation, and he really wants

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<v Speaker 1>to get it done because he believes that it will

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<v Speaker 1>help lower energy prices. Um it's a natural gas pipeline

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<v Speaker 1>that was really his his impetus for trying to do

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<v Speaker 1>this now, and he has leverage because he's Joe Manchon,

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<v Speaker 1>he's the crucial fiftie vote in the Senate. Well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's actually interesting because I would have thought that

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<v Speaker 1>he would have lost his leverage because the Inflation Reduction

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<v Speaker 1>Actor already passed. Democrats and the Biden administration got most

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<v Speaker 1>of what they wanted, But actually your story recently on

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<v Speaker 1>this show, No, he still has a ton of leverage because,

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<v Speaker 1>as we now know, Democrats retained the Senate, which means

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Manchon is still going to be the chairman of

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<v Speaker 1>the Energy Committee, which is a very powerful position. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he still has a lot of leverage, He still has

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of influence because of that position. He also,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, extracted commitments from Senator Schumer, who has indicated

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<v Speaker 1>every time he's been asked about it that he intends

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<v Speaker 1>to honor that and to try to get federal permitting

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<v Speaker 1>reform um that Mansion supports across the board. The White

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<v Speaker 1>House has indicated support for it too. So there, there's

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<v Speaker 1>he still got that to count on. The other thing

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<v Speaker 1>that could help him, maybe not this year, but perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>next year, is that with you know, Republicans taking charge

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<v Speaker 1>of the House, you know he could work with them

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<v Speaker 1>on federal permitting. Now, it's going to look a lot

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<v Speaker 1>different than what he than what he proposed originally, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's still going to have a hard time attracting support

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<v Speaker 1>from both sides of the aisle, but Republicans have and

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<v Speaker 1>some some Republican members that I have talked to who

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<v Speaker 1>have jurisdiction over an interest in federal permitting have expressed

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<v Speaker 1>a willingness to work with him on this. Something could happen.

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<v Speaker 1>There are other Democrats to not necessarily in the progressive wing,

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<v Speaker 1>but other Democrats who would really like to see some

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<v Speaker 1>kind of overhaul to the permitting process. Yeah, it blocks

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<v Speaker 1>projects in red states and blue states. Correct, So there

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<v Speaker 1>is some some um. There are some Democrats that I

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<v Speaker 1>want to have this conversation, want to get something done.

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<v Speaker 1>I think as far as the Lame Duck is concerned,

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<v Speaker 1>it's we don't have much time at all left. People

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<v Speaker 1>I have talked to on the Hill don't have much

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<v Speaker 1>UM appetite for putting something like this in the n

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<v Speaker 1>d A because they don't want to derail the NDA,

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<v Speaker 1>which again is a very important piece of legislation. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think it could crop up again. You know, we

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<v Speaker 1>could have um, some flurry of activity where maybe maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it gets dropped into this or that. But I think

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<v Speaker 1>we're just the clock is running out, and um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see what happens next year. I don't think it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's dead, but I don't think it's gonna go anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>this year. Staying with um mansion and staying with the

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<v Speaker 1>end of here, let's talk about nominations, and specifically I

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about one nomination in particular, Richard Glick,

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<v Speaker 1>who the Biden Administration nominated to serve on FIRK, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Senator Mansion has said

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<v Speaker 1>he does not want to hold a hearing on this domination.

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<v Speaker 1>Hasn't given a lot of reasons why. But uh, it

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<v Speaker 1>seems like now that Mansion is going to continue on

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<v Speaker 1>as the chairman of this committee, is this nomination toast Like,

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<v Speaker 1>is he going to have to you know, withdraw the

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<v Speaker 1>nomination pretty much? Yeah? Wow, Okay, I think it might

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<v Speaker 1>be a rap for Richard Glick um because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's getting to the end of the year. He's not

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<v Speaker 1>going to get a hearing this year. Biden could obviously

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<v Speaker 1>renominate him next year and the process kind of starts

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<v Speaker 1>over again. But that doesn't mean that Mansion is going

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<v Speaker 1>to change his mind um, and he's still in charge

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<v Speaker 1>of the committee that has to advance the nomination to

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<v Speaker 1>the floor. So I think that glick is probably getting

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<v Speaker 1>caught up in the larger politics around and energy. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I was gonna ask, do we have a sense of

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<v Speaker 1>why Mansion opposed opposes him. I've heard a few things,

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<v Speaker 1>and my my colleague Daniel Moore at Bloomberg Law has

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<v Speaker 1>done some excellent reporting on this topic. A few weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 1>Biden gave a speech. He talked about energy, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was some comments that he made essentially saying, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>shut down you know, coal plants. We're gonna you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it was it was a bit toned off and it's

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<v Speaker 1>not the kind of thing that Joe Manson likes to hear.

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<v Speaker 1>It made him angry, and Mansion, you know, shot off

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<v Speaker 1>statement after those remarks, basically saying that they were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that was a terrible thing to say and it's not

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<v Speaker 1>true in etcetera, etcetera. So you know, Biden kind of

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<v Speaker 1>needlessly angered Mansion over that. And this is also around

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<v Speaker 1>the time where reporters have been asking, Okay, when are

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<v Speaker 1>you going to have the Glick nomination? Hearing you know,

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<v Speaker 1>his time is running out, and I think so, I

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<v Speaker 1>think Glick got caught up in the sort of crossfire.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, and Glick is a former Energy Natural

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<v Speaker 1>Resources staffer, He's worked on that committee. He knows Mansion.

0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Mansion knows him. Um And as I mentioned earlier, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>my colleague Daniel More wrote a story I believe yesterday

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<v Speaker 1>that mentioned this issue, and he had talked to Glick

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday at the Firk meeting, and Glick said that Mansion

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<v Speaker 1>called him and and you know, talked to him about

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<v Speaker 1>it before he said that he wasn't going to do

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<v Speaker 1>the hearing. You know, I think it's pretty clear that

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<v Speaker 1>Mansion is navigating a very tricky path on these issues,

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<v Speaker 1>on energy and environment issues. Um, given the state he's from.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and by the way, Senator Mansion is up for

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<v Speaker 1>re election in two years. Yes, yes, uh, let's cross

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<v Speaker 1>the rotunda and head on over to the House. That

0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.960
<v Speaker 1>we don't know what the majority will be like in

0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.120
<v Speaker 1>the House. We know Republicans will be in control, but

0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.240
<v Speaker 1>we don't know the size. We do know that it's

0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.679
<v Speaker 1>going to be very, very very small, So Republicans are

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<v Speaker 1>going to have trouble I think probably passing anything, let

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<v Speaker 1>alone passing something and then getting the Senate to pass

0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 1>it and Senate to the President's desk. However, they will

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<v Speaker 1>have the ability to do investigations into the Biden environmental agenda.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you expect those to look like? What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think that Republicans in the House will target in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of their investigations. I think that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>look at the administration's probably starting out the administration's policies

0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.079
<v Speaker 1>on gas prices and how much of a role that

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 1>they've played in inflation, and how the administration's energy policy

0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:02.719
<v Speaker 1>has affected the country's ability to be energy independent and

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<v Speaker 1>keep prices affordable and service reliable for for the country.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's going to be a key area that

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<v Speaker 1>they look at. I think they're also going to UM

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<v Speaker 1>be interested in how the administration pursues UM domestic oil

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<v Speaker 1>and gas drilling on federal lands. UM. That's been a

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<v Speaker 1>sticking point UM for a while. You know, there was

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<v Speaker 1>the executive action that Biden took putting a temporary moratorium

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<v Speaker 1>on that that has been litigated. Now we're essentially at

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<v Speaker 1>a point where the administration can't keep delaying and slow

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<v Speaker 1>walking UM those types of LEAs sales. So I think

0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>you're going to see Republicans push them on on being

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 1>more proactive on holding oil and gas LEA sales on

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>shore and offshore on federal lands UM. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to see a lot more appearances by Cabinet

0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.520
<v Speaker 1>secretaries like Deb Hall and an Interior UM, Michael Reagan

0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 1>a d p A, and Jennifer Granthome and Energy on

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.199
<v Speaker 1>the Hill asking about all of those things. I think

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<v Speaker 1>d Oe in particular, d O, we got a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money in the Infrastructure Law. They also got a

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.280
<v Speaker 1>decent amount of money in the um Inflation Reduction Act.

0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 1>So they're in a position where they're deciding how they're

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>going to disperse that money. You're going to see Republicans

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>do a lot of oversight on how that money is spent,

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.440
<v Speaker 1>where it goes, what kind of projects it goes to. Okay,

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:34.079
<v Speaker 1>and finally, really quickly, UM, our colleague Ari Nader wrote

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 1>a story recently about how the president may use the

0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 1>administrative rulemaking process to get done what he can't get

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.199
<v Speaker 1>done in the next two years through Congress. He certainly

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be the first president to try to do this

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.200
<v Speaker 1>when Congress doesn't give him what he wants. UM, what

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>do you think about that? Do you think that that

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.719
<v Speaker 1>is an avenue that the president will pursue, and if so,

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 1>do you think it will be accessible? I think it's

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>definitely an avenue he'll pursue, and it's an avenue that's

0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 1>open to him. Um. And this is this is the

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 1>time that presidents used that avenue to not necessarily successfully,

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>but they try to use it more often at this

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 1>period of time, when they've got a divided Congress there

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 1>in their last two years of their administration, they really

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.160
<v Speaker 1>want to get things across the board. The issue with

0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 1>rulemaking and other executive executive actions like executive orders, proclamations,

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>things like that, you can do those things, but they're

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 1>not durable, so they can always get overturned, reversed, thrown

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>out executive actions, especially executive actions for sure. But but

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 1>rules too, you know, there's the Congressional Review Act and

0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 1>that you know, Congress can can undo regulations in a

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 1>certain period of time, and you know there's always litigation

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>that comes along with rules too. So I mean, I

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 1>think it's certainly an avenue, it's not it's not necessarily

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I think one that could yield a lot of significant action, though,

0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean he may be able to do some stuff

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 1>tinkering here and there, maybe on like social cost of carbon,

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.680
<v Speaker 1>maybe on methane, which you're seeing right now happen um

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>with the e p A and those are. You know,

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 1>it's it's not nothing, but it's not the big sweeping,

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 1>transformative um investment that you that you know, we've seen

0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 1>with infrastructure, the Infrastructure law with the inflation Reduction Acts.

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.680
<v Speaker 1>So there's only so much you can do with the

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.760
<v Speaker 1>rule making process. All right. Well that was Kelly Lenny

0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 1>talking about the end of one seventeen and the beginning

0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 1>of one eighteen. Thank you Kelly so much for for chatting.

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. And

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 1>that's it for today's episode of Parts Rebellion. If you

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>want more environmental news, check us out on Twitter. We

0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 1>used to handle at environment just that at Environment, and

0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I of course I'm at David B. Shorts. Today's episode

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>of Parts Billion was produced by myself, David Jolts. Parts

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.680
<v Speaker 1>of Billion was created by Jessica Coombs and Rachel Dagle

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 1>and is edited by Zach Sherwood and Jack McCutcheon. Our

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 1>executive producer is Josh Block. Thanks everyone for listening and

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Happy Thanksgiving. An individual's race should not be used to

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>help him or harm him in his life's endeavors. A

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>pair of lawsuits has made its way to the Supreme Court,

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 1>and the decision could dramatically change just who gets into

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 1>which college. Bloom is effectively using the Asian community as pawns.

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Every lawsuit needs a villain to mask an anti black

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:40.040
<v Speaker 1>and anti Latino agenda? Does this demoralize me? No, it

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>doesn't demoralize me. This season on Uncommon Law will explore

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.360
<v Speaker 1>the arguments and the people driving this latest battle over

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 1>affirmative action. Can the Constitution be used to remedy society's ills?

0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm the only person in class, must raise my hand

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 1>and say, okay, well, actually, here's how this affects people

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 1>that look like me. Does the Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Clause prohibit all discrimination based on race? You let somebody

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in because of their race, you're keeping somebody else out

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.520
<v Speaker 1>because of their race. There might have been two or

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.960
<v Speaker 1>three Latinos, including me, and so somehow that's too much.

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Somehow that goes too far. It's hard not to take

0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 1>that very personally. Coming October, part one of a three

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.639
<v Speaker 1>part series on affirmative action. What's being decided is whether

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.200
<v Speaker 1>black and brown people are going to be excluded in

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:36.720
<v Speaker 1>significant numbers only An uncommon Law from Bloomberg Industry Group