Speaker 1: When you humanize yourself and you humanize me. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: not just a tool or number to you, were something
Speaker 1: you're using to achieve a goal. Right now, you humanized
Speaker 1: me and made sure that I understand that I am
Speaker 1: more important than whatever we're doing here. I think anybody
Speaker 1: would take that from a leader or a boss and
Speaker 1: run with it.
Speaker 2: This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
Speaker 2: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
Speaker 2: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the
Speaker 2: Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with retired Sergeant first
Speaker 2: Class Matthew Docchio, a highly respected military veteran and longtime friend.
Speaker 2: Sergeant first Class Dochio spent his entire military career in
Speaker 2: the Army Special Forces Green Beret, earning a number of awards,
Speaker 2: including a Bronze Star and Purple Heart, before retiring in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen due to injury, sustain and combat. After discovering
Speaker 2: a passion for war working in retirement, Matt founded hard
Speaker 2: Af Designs, a small veteran own business that creates unique,
Speaker 2: hindcrafted home to core pieces. Matt and I discussed why
Speaker 2: some of the best leaders express vulnerability and empathy, the
Speaker 2: importance of teaching children accountability, and why he's decided to
Speaker 2: write a book to help those struggling with mental health,
Speaker 2: self worth, and identity. Man, I'm gonna try not to
Speaker 2: cry on this one. Dude an old friend from my childhood.
Speaker 2: We've kept in touch some over the years. But I mean,
Speaker 2: this man is a He's a freaking hero to all
Speaker 2: of us here in the United States. I'm super pumped
Speaker 2: to have him, super pumped to call him a friend.
Speaker 2: Special Forces Green Beret retired Matt Docchio, Matthew Dochio, doc
Speaker 2: what's up Man? Thanks for hopping on, Bro.
Speaker 1: What's up? Nick? Thanks for having me Man, It's an honor.
Speaker 2: Well, it's an honor to have you.
Speaker 1: Bro.
Speaker 2: And I just got done listening to the podcast Team
Speaker 2: trek Man. You guys spent a lot of time really
Speaker 2: digging in on some really important topics in your history. Man,
Speaker 2: I thought you guys did an awesome job. Anyone who's
Speaker 2: gonna listen to this needs to go check that out.
Speaker 2: But what was it like, Man, getting on the mic
Speaker 2: and open up about a lot of.
Speaker 1: It was different. It was different. It definitely was a
Speaker 1: new experience for me. Uh, you know, I've opened up
Speaker 1: before and in a very different settings in group sessions
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, but to put it all out
Speaker 1: there like that on the mic was Uh. It was
Speaker 1: an experience, but a good one. A good one definitely
Speaker 1: some growth and positive all positive coming from it.
Speaker 2: Well, man, I'm glad that you did it, and I've
Speaker 2: been meaning to have yon. I'm glad we were able
Speaker 2: to connect that kind of put the pedal to the
Speaker 2: metal right there. I wanted to have you on because
Speaker 2: you know, you have such an unbelievable esteem career in
Speaker 2: the US. You know, military, You've been in so many
Speaker 2: leadership positions, but also you know, you were one hell
Speaker 2: of an athlete back in your day, and and you
Speaker 2: know a lot of you know, sports parents, a lot
Speaker 2: of kids, a lot of coaches and such will listen
Speaker 2: to this a little bit of history about Matt and I.
Speaker 2: You know, we played every sport we can possibly imagine
Speaker 2: against each other with each other back in the day
Speaker 2: when we were kids. Our brothers played high school football together.
Speaker 2: He and I played football together against each other in
Speaker 2: high school. And then I guess, Matt, you know we're
Speaker 2: such a good athlete, you go into the military, what
Speaker 2: are you you're nineteen twenty years old when.
Speaker 1: You go into the army twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I went twenty years old, and immediately you just jump
Speaker 2: into I'm going into Special Force astraight, Like, how did
Speaker 2: your athletic career help you become? I guess from what
Speaker 2: I read, forty five people tried out for that eighteen
Speaker 2: month grueling session of the of the training, and only
Speaker 2: three were standing at the end. You were one of them. Like,
Speaker 2: what did you do in athletics that allowed you, I
Speaker 2: guess to have not only the physical but the mental
Speaker 2: wherewithal to be able to get through that.
Speaker 1: Oh that's it paved the way. It gave me the
Speaker 1: keys to the kingdom, I guess you could say, really,
Speaker 1: because all the qualities and all the skills that I
Speaker 1: needed to be successful in that type of environment were
Speaker 1: learned and polished through all those years with you playing
Speaker 1: sports in high school and the competitiveness and the camaraderie
Speaker 1: and learning how to be a good leader from you know,
Speaker 1: the captain of the football team when I was a
Speaker 1: sophomore to you know, coach Telegrio, and you know, all
Speaker 1: the mentors that I had and then bad leaders, you know,
Speaker 1: being able to identify them and what I take away
Speaker 1: from from this guy and that guy. So when I
Speaker 1: got the Special Forces, it almost felt like at home.
Speaker 1: It felt like a football team to me, it really was.
Speaker 1: It was it was the same type of mentality, a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys working towards the same goal, working together.
Speaker 1: To be honest, it was almost I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say easy, because physically it was challenging, but it was
Speaker 1: easier for me than I think other guys that were
Speaker 1: left in the right of being because I already had
Speaker 1: those key qualities that you learned playing sports, how to
Speaker 1: be a member of the team, how to follow, then
Speaker 1: how to lead, And I think that's what made me successful.
Speaker 2: One of the big things that often comes up, you know,
Speaker 2: particularly today, is you know, as a parent. I know
Speaker 2: you're a parent as well. You know, it's challenging at
Speaker 2: times to you know, some people don't really like seeing
Speaker 2: their kids struggle. But I mean, here you are, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one years old. You're going through some of the
Speaker 2: most intense training and learning. You know, in the battlefield,
Speaker 2: right like there had to be adversity constantly. Was there
Speaker 2: anything that like you pulled out of your childhood or
Speaker 2: any struggles that maybe you know, you could look back on,
Speaker 2: maybe from your athletic background to be like, man, I've
Speaker 2: been here before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it would be more with the
Speaker 1: interaction with teammates. You know, I did pull Like I
Speaker 1: remember when it was Thanksgiving weekend the Holy Cross and
Speaker 1: they would let the freshmen practice that week with the varsity,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you got some senior They pick
Speaker 1: on the freshmen. They bully the freshman, you know, and
Speaker 1: they make life hard for him. You know. So when
Speaker 1: you get to a special courts team, it's very similar.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm that freshman again with these older guys
Speaker 1: and you have to put your pride aside to follow
Speaker 1: and listen. And I just said to my son the
Speaker 1: other day, because you just started playing football, the same
Speaker 1: advice I gave him would be advice that I learned
Speaker 1: growing up playing football and I used throughout my whole career.
Speaker 1: Sometimes don't listen to how the coach is saying it
Speaker 1: to you, listen to what he's saying to you. You know,
Speaker 1: guys are gonna scream, they're gonna yell at you. Filter
Speaker 1: that out. And just received the message do not miss
Speaker 1: the mess is because he's yelling at you, you know,
Speaker 1: And that was a big takeaway for me. That's something
Speaker 1: I've always I've always held tied to.
Speaker 2: And it seems like you've always been in leadership positions man,
Speaker 2: like you know, you talk about being a younger, you know,
Speaker 2: a young man and you probably had guys that were wailed.
Speaker 2: Did you morph into a leader in the military, Like,
Speaker 2: how did you become someone who is so revered and
Speaker 2: followed by, you know, your teammates in the military. Did
Speaker 2: it come naturally to you or is that something you
Speaker 2: had to learn from experience.
Speaker 1: This is a long debate that I think my whole
Speaker 1: time in the military, we debate this topic. Can you
Speaker 1: teach leadership?
Speaker 2: Can you teach.
Speaker 1: Someone how to be a leader? The military thinks that
Speaker 1: they can't. You know, they send you to leadership schools,
Speaker 1: they e spent you to come back a leader. This
Speaker 1: is mat Docu's personal opinion. I don't think you can
Speaker 1: teach leadership. I don't think you can take someone and
Speaker 1: teach him to be a good leader. Now you can
Speaker 1: provide him with the qualities and the characteristics of what
Speaker 1: a good leader looks like and maybe help him act
Speaker 1: like a good leader. But from what I see and
Speaker 1: what I've seen through my it's the guys that played
Speaker 1: some type of sports, the guys that were always involved
Speaker 1: in that team setting. I believe good leaders are made
Speaker 1: through experiences growing up, you know, as they go through life.
Speaker 1: They are the experiences that they are a part of
Speaker 1: morph them either into a good leader or a bad leader,
Speaker 1: or doesn't understand what leadership is, or just doesn't have
Speaker 1: that quality in them. Some people are I don't think
Speaker 1: are made to be leaders, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: But I do believe that it's I became the leader
Speaker 1: that I became because of coach Trull, like Holy Cross,
Speaker 1: because of you know, my coach in college, because of
Speaker 1: the mentors I had when I was when I was
Speaker 1: young in Special Forces and some great leaders that pulled
Speaker 1: me in and mentored me, and I was able to
Speaker 1: pull those key things that I see in them as leaders.
Speaker 1: And then the bad leaders. I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: bad leaders in my career as well. I remember like
Speaker 1: things that they did that I in my mind, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to do that. That's not the leader I
Speaker 1: want to be. So when I get into that position,
Speaker 1: or when I did get to that position of leadership
Speaker 1: in my raign, I knew, I knew the type of
Speaker 1: leader I wanted to be. I knew the mistakes that
Speaker 1: I've seen leaders make, and I remember the impacts that
Speaker 1: those mistakes would have on our team and on individuals,
Speaker 1: And I just made a kindness effort to be that leader.
Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, like and listening
Speaker 2: to the podcast you did with Team Trek, you kept
Speaker 2: bringing up the word being vulnerable, you know, you kept
Speaker 2: saying how getting vulnerable, having empathy. In fact, you talked
Speaker 2: in great detail about some trauma that you experienced, and
Speaker 2: you know, one incident in particular kind of shaped you know,
Speaker 2: your life really and caused you to maybe later on, like,
Speaker 2: you know, have instances come up where you may have
Speaker 2: had a shorter fuse, maybe not have shown some empathy
Speaker 2: because I heard, you know, during the podcast and we
Speaker 2: talked a little bit beforehand, you know how if you
Speaker 2: can go back, maybe you would. And I asked you
Speaker 2: before we started recording, like do you think that there's
Speaker 2: strength and empathy, Like do you think that you know,
Speaker 2: showing empathy maybe taking time to talk to someone, Because
Speaker 2: when you're in the military and you're you're you're in
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and you're in the desert, you're in a combat.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're dealing with life and death. So my
Speaker 2: question to you was having that few minutes of counsel
Speaker 2: with someone to maybe help them through, would that maybe
Speaker 2: slow them down? And your response actually called me and
Speaker 2: I would love for you to kind of talk about
Speaker 2: how empathy might be an advantage.
Speaker 1: You know, if you asked me that question at twenty
Speaker 1: six years old, I probably would answer it much definitely now,
Speaker 1: because I wasn't at that point of understanding what a
Speaker 1: good leader is, you know, I would think that would
Speaker 1: show weakness, like there's no, we don't have time for
Speaker 1: that to we're on a mission or or you know,
Speaker 1: we have a goal that we have to get you
Speaker 1: no matter what. And that's the wrong answer in my opinion,
Speaker 1: that's the wrong answer. I think vulnerability empathy that doesn't
Speaker 1: show a weakness, that shows the strength of the leader,
Speaker 1: That shows the leader's ability to take off that shield
Speaker 1: and show genuine concern for a player, for a soldier,
Speaker 1: for you know, a coworker. I think that it's unmeasurable
Speaker 1: the benefits that that's going to do for him, as
Speaker 1: a leader. That's what that's what it would do for
Speaker 1: the team. I've had leaders that have done that with me,
Speaker 1: and twenty years later, I'll still follow them anywhere. They
Speaker 1: have my loyalty, they have my work. I will work
Speaker 1: my ass off of these guys. And it's because of that.
Speaker 1: It's because that they showed me that vulnerability, they showed
Speaker 1: me that genuine care for my well being above just
Speaker 1: being a number, above just being a tool for the
Speaker 1: military to use. And it's priceless, I think right there.
Speaker 1: When you do that with one of your guys, you
Speaker 1: solidify a relationship not just professional, but also personal. It's
Speaker 1: a bond that's it's unbreakable, definitely signed us strengths.
Speaker 2: So that bond, that relationship that you're talking about becomes
Speaker 2: it like blooms when you get real with somebody, like hey,
Speaker 2: you take that guard down, you show your guard and
Speaker 2: you let that human know like it's not about just
Speaker 2: we go get this w It's not about just you know,
Speaker 2: we got to go finish this mission. It's not about
Speaker 2: we just got to go, you know, hit this quota
Speaker 2: for the month. It's about I care about you as
Speaker 2: a person, and that in and of itself will make
Speaker 2: you run through a brick wall for somebody.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when you when you when you humanize yourself
Speaker 1: and you humanize me. Now I'm not just a tool
Speaker 1: or number to you or something you're using to achieve
Speaker 1: a goal. Right now, you humanized me and made sure
Speaker 1: that I understand that I am more important than whatever
Speaker 1: we're doing here. I think anybody would take that from
Speaker 1: a leader or a boss and run with it and
Speaker 1: you know, do the right thing and follow them absolutely.
Speaker 2: When you're you talk about teamwork and being a great teammate,
Speaker 2: which is something that I talk about a lot. You know,
Speaker 2: we talk about a lot and I personally and I
Speaker 2: would love to hear your thought on this because I
Speaker 2: try my best with my own kids and when I'm
Speaker 2: coaching teams, particularly a young age. Is like I think
Speaker 2: you can teach somebody. I think learning to be a
Speaker 2: great teammate is. I think that's a learned skill. I
Speaker 2: think it's it's it's teaching kids like it's not all
Speaker 2: about you, And I think a lot of that starts
Speaker 2: at home. As a parent, I think that I have
Speaker 2: to do that as a parent, I have to do
Speaker 2: that as a coach. But what are your thoughts on
Speaker 2: you know, can you teach kids to be great teammates?
Speaker 2: Can you teach people to be a great teammate? And
Speaker 2: if so? Or if not? But if so, like, what
Speaker 2: are ways in which that you believe could help people
Speaker 2: learn to become a great team and not be selfish.
Speaker 1: I think one of the number one qualities of being
Speaker 1: a leader is leading by example. I think that's that
Speaker 1: right there. Teaching kids or green berets, you're you're talking
Speaker 1: about seven year old or you're talking about thirty year
Speaker 1: old you know, are chargers. It's the same thing, leading
Speaker 1: by example, showing that you're putting the team first. You're
Speaker 1: putting this guy first, you know, developing these guys, doing
Speaker 1: whatever we need to do to make each of them
Speaker 1: better and making each other better because you get that
Speaker 1: understanding of we're on a team. So if you're great
Speaker 1: and all of us are mediocre, well the team's mediocre.
Speaker 1: But if everyone on a team is great, how much
Speaker 1: better are we going to be as a unit? You know?
Speaker 1: And once you get everyone to buy off on that
Speaker 1: and to drink that kool aid, you know, there's no
Speaker 1: stopping you. So I think leading by example and you
Speaker 1: do that by You know, when I was a charge
Speaker 1: of by team, that was all about getting you the
Speaker 1: schools that you want, getting you more training, making you
Speaker 1: a better soldier. I'm not trying to keep you down
Speaker 1: so I can keep my position. I'm trying to make
Speaker 1: all of you better so we can be better as
Speaker 1: a team. And you see when guys see that, they
Speaker 1: start doing that with each other. You know, they become
Speaker 1: better teammates. They start putting their teammate first. It's all
Speaker 1: instead of I, it's all about us. And I think
Speaker 1: it's as by example.
Speaker 2: So you really, I mean when you talk about you know,
Speaker 2: you were out and I mean, what do you have?
Speaker 2: You have two purple hearts, you have a bronze what
Speaker 2: is it? A bronze star? Yeah, so I mean you're
Speaker 2: highly decorated. You have been in the thick of it.
Speaker 2: How many tours have you done Afganistan for and then
Speaker 2: a bunch to wear South America?
Speaker 1: South America? Yeah, pretty much every country minus Venezuela and Nicaragua.
Speaker 2: So you've been in the belly of the beast. At
Speaker 2: the end of the day, the same type of things
Speaker 2: you learn playing sports, being a part of a team
Speaker 2: really translate into that real world life and death situation
Speaker 2: like it is. It's really that much of a mirror
Speaker 2: situation from a camaraderie, from a team building aspect and
Speaker 2: leadership aspect.
Speaker 1: You know, I always speak for you know, Special Forces,
Speaker 1: Like my whole career is a Special Forces. So we're
Speaker 1: on a twelve man team. If we're lucky, nine, ten, eleven,
Speaker 1: twelve guys dependent, but those are that's your team. That's
Speaker 1: your team for years. It mirrors. It mirrors my high
Speaker 1: school football team. It mirrors my college. It mirrors sports
Speaker 1: to the tea. It really does. From the coach down.
Speaker 1: You know, we have a team sergeant instead of a coach.
Speaker 1: And every issue or every challenge that I had on
Speaker 1: any team playing sports are very similar challenges I have
Speaker 1: on a Special Force to team, you know, minus obviously
Speaker 1: the mission and stuff like that. But you're still working
Speaker 1: towards a goal, unified as a team. In order for
Speaker 1: us to win or in order for us to have
Speaker 1: a successful mission, we have to work as a team.
Speaker 1: You have to do your responsibilities, and you will succeed.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's really a matter. Playing seventh grade
Speaker 1: te ball, if we work as a team and do
Speaker 1: what we've learned, and you know, take care of what
Speaker 1: your specific responsibility is. The team does well, and it's
Speaker 1: the same thing. It's across the board from what I've seen,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: It's it's fascinating to me how we take these lessons
Speaker 2: and incorporate them because I can speak for myself and
Speaker 2: my business experience and everything I've ever done it and
Speaker 2: it all translates, It all correlates, which is why I'm
Speaker 2: such a big proponent on kids, you know, being well rounded,
Speaker 2: playing different sports, but also having different experiences and more
Speaker 2: important than like allowing your kids to fail.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I interviewed Tim KORbin, head baseball coach at Vanderbilt, and
Speaker 2: he's like, when your kids are out there, he kind
Speaker 2: of gave an analogy of throughout their swimming in the
Speaker 2: water and there and they're struggling a little bit, don't
Speaker 2: be so quick to throw them the life jacket, you know,
Speaker 2: don't be so quick like allow them the opportunity to
Speaker 2: work through it. It's so quick nowadays. If things aren't
Speaker 2: going right, we're gonna bounce to another team. We're gonna
Speaker 2: go here, we're gonna quit, we're gonna go there. And
Speaker 2: as a parent. Listen, are there times in which a
Speaker 2: situation is better some or else? Sure, but there's definitely value,
Speaker 2: especially particularly at young ages, and you have to learn
Speaker 2: it early. Man, Like these kids got to learn how
Speaker 2: to get uncomfortable. So, as a parent, is that something
Speaker 2: that you're going to try to do with your kids
Speaker 2: is like allow them to out? But how do you
Speaker 2: balance that, right? Because do you revert back to stick
Speaker 2: your chest out, don't talk about it, or do you
Speaker 2: show that same empathy and encouragement and help guide them
Speaker 2: through it while still allow them to feel that struggle.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you that is that just happens to
Speaker 1: me with my son Joshua right eighth grade. Down here,
Speaker 1: they have the actual football at the school in seventh
Speaker 1: and eighth grade. They don't have it up nors. So
Speaker 1: he's playing in football for the first time in his life. Right,
Speaker 1: he always played soccer, plays football. Kids a great athlete.
Speaker 1: My son's a great athlete. He probably saw one minute
Speaker 1: of playtime the whole season, one minute of playtime ten
Speaker 1: games eighth grade. Dude, I think the coach was a
Speaker 1: good coach. No, I don't. I think the coaches were
Speaker 1: horrible coaches. Did I ever say that to my son.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not right. I'm not gonna get I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: give him that blame or that ability to blame the
Speaker 1: coach or whatever. No, you work hard and whatever happens
Speaker 1: happens as long as you know you worked hard as
Speaker 1: you could and he did. So now what do we do? Okay,
Speaker 1: I switch them to Destin high school where he'll get
Speaker 1: more playing time. Do I switch on the Choctaw where
Speaker 1: they have a weak team so it gets more playing time. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. You need to make a decision.
Speaker 1: So I told you go to crossroads. You take that
Speaker 1: and turn it into fuel and work hard to get
Speaker 1: your playing time this next year. Or do you use
Speaker 1: it as if as an excuse of failure I hate
Speaker 1: the coach about No, you take countability for your actions.
Speaker 1: Work your ass off, and that's why I told me.
Speaker 1: I said, if you work your ass off, put the
Speaker 1: time in, and then let's see what happens. But we
Speaker 1: need to know did you try your best. If you
Speaker 1: tried your best and you're not gonna play well, then
Speaker 1: you know we could talk other options. And that's what
Speaker 1: he did. I'd be honest with you. I can't believe
Speaker 1: how hard he worked and he's getting his rewards. Now
Speaker 1: you know he's starting this year, he's you know, he's
Speaker 1: doing he's doing very well. So I think that's an
Speaker 1: example of because I think a lot of parents immediately
Speaker 1: with the coaches, don't know what they're doing the right
Speaker 1: They get the kid and out and you can't blame
Speaker 1: the coaches, you know, as easy as that is, it's
Speaker 1: always a coach is fault. You got to I'm trying
Speaker 1: to teach him like accountability. That's that's where I think
Speaker 1: is big with teams is you have to be able
Speaker 1: to be self aware and take accountability. Because he didn't,
Speaker 1: he didn't train hard for this football season. I know
Speaker 1: he didn't. I knew already knew the answer. So be accountable,
Speaker 1: be truthful with yourself, be self aware, and and go
Speaker 1: from there. That's that's why I try and preach, preach
Speaker 1: to him. If you work your ass off, then we
Speaker 1: could talk about it. But until you give it your best,
Speaker 1: until you can look in the mirror and say I've
Speaker 1: done everything that I could do to achieve my goal,
Speaker 1: which is to play right, to start right. As everybody
Speaker 1: wants to do, they want to start and be successful.
Speaker 1: Until you do that, well, then we're not gonna look
Speaker 1: at those other options.
Speaker 2: When we return, Sergeant first Class Docio and I talk
Speaker 2: about his struggles with identity and self work after retiring
Speaker 2: and why finding new passions significantly improved his mental health.
Speaker 2: Where we left off, Matt and I were about to
Speaker 2: discuss why getting to know your teammates on a personal
Speaker 2: level create stronger feelings of support and com robbery. It's
Speaker 2: it's so refreshing, and I feel like I'm surrounded by
Speaker 2: you know, similar people, and my and my you know
Speaker 2: type friend group who get it, and many almost all
Speaker 2: the coaches and athletes and stuff that I have on here,
Speaker 2: and people that I speak to about that accountability piece
Speaker 2: and another element that I really want to get into
Speaker 2: with you, doc is is and you talked a lot
Speaker 2: about it on the podcast with Team Trek, and it's
Speaker 2: it's a topic that really, over the last several years
Speaker 2: has started to become mainstream. You know, you're hearing more
Speaker 2: and more high profile athletes, you know, more and more
Speaker 2: focus on mental health, mental well being, being cognizant of
Speaker 2: being right in all areas of life, not just from
Speaker 2: a physical standpoint. And I know you talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: how you've had to come and work on that as
Speaker 2: I have. And you know, many athletes like Michael Phelps
Speaker 2: and Kevin Love and Simone Biles and others who have
Speaker 2: gotten really vulnerable use their platform to talk about how
Speaker 2: that's such a big thing in their life, Like what
Speaker 2: is it about, you know, working through because listen, I
Speaker 2: look at you, Documan, You're a physical specimen. You clearly
Speaker 2: take good care of yourself, hit the gym, and you're
Speaker 2: as strong as an ox and all that. But at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, you talk about that shield.
Speaker 2: If we're not right upstairs. I know from my own experience,
Speaker 2: like the way I am physically, it ain't gonna fly.
Speaker 2: So how are ways in which you, particularly with your kids.
Speaker 2: And we're talking and a lot of parents and such
Speaker 2: are gonna listen, like how can they look out for
Speaker 2: red flags? Because ever since COVID and such you talk
Speaker 2: about and it's happened here, you know, even people I
Speaker 2: know where they have kids that have it's heartbreaking, but
Speaker 2: you hear more and more kids that are that are
Speaker 2: committing suicide, you know, and they're not talking about things
Speaker 2: and how are ways in which us as parents or
Speaker 2: you maybe any experience you have with with getting or
Speaker 2: vulnerable to be able to open up and understand that
Speaker 2: you have other options than just that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's huge, It's huge. And that's what that
Speaker 1: podcast is about, is about being accountable for the guys. See,
Speaker 1: when you're in the military, they know where you are
Speaker 1: all the time. I know, if I don't show up
Speaker 1: to work at eight a m. Somebody's gonna call me.
Speaker 1: If I don't pick up the phone, somebody's gonna come
Speaker 1: to my house. Because it's the military, right they hold
Speaker 1: you accountable. You are accountable to be here at this time,
Speaker 1: this place. Well, when you leave the military, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, nobody's accountable for you anymore. There's nobody calling you,
Speaker 1: there's nobody expecting you, there's nobody looking out for you.
Speaker 1: And that's what we're trying to change with that podcast.
Speaker 1: That's the goal of that is who is accountable for you?
Speaker 1: If medachio disappears for three or four days, is there
Speaker 1: anybody that's calling him to see if he's okay? Does
Speaker 1: anybody check in with them? And that's the I think
Speaker 1: the same thing, the same mentality I'm trying to do
Speaker 1: with the kids, right, I'm holding them accountable. When I'm
Speaker 1: holding my kids accountable, it's also an education piece and
Speaker 1: that goes for what I was talking about too, with
Speaker 1: the team trek and holding these guys accountable. It's hard
Speaker 1: for me as a parent, or as a leader or
Speaker 1: as a coach. It's hard for me to identify these
Speaker 1: red flags in a in a player or in a soldier.
Speaker 1: If one, I'm not educated to what red flags are.
Speaker 1: If I'm not educated to what you know signs of
Speaker 1: depression are, if I'm not educated to any mental health
Speaker 1: type thing when it comes to people struggling. Two, am
Speaker 1: I putting in the effort as a leader to get
Speaker 1: to know my guy well enough to be able to
Speaker 1: identify a change in his in his personality. Oh, Doc's
Speaker 1: always here, he's always happy, he's talking, he's he's really
Speaker 1: involved in everything going on. Then you know, like last week, Doc,
Speaker 1: I don't know, and he didn't show up to work,
Speaker 1: he didn't call. You know, he's quiet, he's not talking
Speaker 1: to anybody. Does somebody know me well enough to be
Speaker 1: able to identify to know my personality or cared enough
Speaker 1: to know my personality well enough to identify that change
Speaker 1: that baseline. Do they have that baseline of what this
Speaker 1: kid or soldier is like. So I think as a
Speaker 1: parent or as a coach, he goes back to not
Speaker 1: just looking at them as players, but looking at them
Speaker 1: on the human side and really spending the time talking
Speaker 1: to him, getting to know them, so you could really
Speaker 1: learn the baseline of when he's doing good. This is
Speaker 1: what good looks like for Johnny. So when Johnny starts
Speaker 1: doing things that are outside of his character, outside of
Speaker 1: his norm, that coach or that leader or that teammate, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it could be teammates, you know, looking out
Speaker 1: for his buddy, like Son's wrong with Johnny. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a little bit different. I was having to catch
Speaker 1: with him, right, he's quiet. So I think it's just
Speaker 1: hearing enough to learn about people outside of the job
Speaker 1: or outside of the store, outside of the game, outside
Speaker 1: of the you know, training. If that makes sense, Nick, I.
Speaker 2: Think it makes complete sense. And I applaud you, and
Speaker 2: I think it's so important of the work that you're doing,
Speaker 2: and you know with you know, with team track what
Speaker 2: they're doing as far as you know, being able to
Speaker 2: be a resource to show others that you're being vulnerable.
Speaker 2: I think it's just I don't think it could be
Speaker 2: talked about enough because, uh, you know, decades and decades
Speaker 2: and decades of stick your chest out. You're a man.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't talk about men don't cry. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: some of the greatest moments of my life, I know,
Speaker 2: from my own personal growth have been in the most
Speaker 2: you know, the most vulnerable circumstances where I wanted to hide,
Speaker 2: but I had to face my fear and I had
Speaker 2: to deal with those emotions. And you know, on the
Speaker 2: other side of that, someone puts their armorround you and
Speaker 2: tells you, hey, it's going to be all right. And
Speaker 2: next thing, you know, this for me, I know something
Speaker 2: that may have been eating me a lot. Now this
Speaker 2: weight is gone, or at least I realize I'm not alone,
Speaker 2: and there's so much strength in that. So man, I
Speaker 2: applage you. WHI so critical. And also you know, I
Speaker 2: know that a while ago you started the hobby of
Speaker 2: what kind of woodworking and stuff and sounds like that
Speaker 2: that was kind of like a safe refuge for you.
Speaker 2: But now it's turned into this like blowing up business.
Speaker 2: Hard af wood designs like walk us through that man,
Speaker 2: I love what you're doing. And did it start off
Speaker 2: as something to kind of give you some mental therapy
Speaker 2: and the hobby and just turned into this you know business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be honest with you. It saved my life,
Speaker 1: it did. It saved my life. And this is also
Speaker 1: a good example how being on teams and sports and
Speaker 1: what I do and what I did in the military,
Speaker 1: are they do mirror themselves. You know, how many professional
Speaker 1: athletes do you know they retire that two years later
Speaker 1: you hear maybe they commits suicide or they're depressed, or
Speaker 1: they lose everything right because they lose that identity. Their
Speaker 1: identity was this professional athlete in the spotlight, and now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're just a regular person, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's what guys struggled with the Special Forces. They
Speaker 1: got the green beret on, they got the uniform with
Speaker 1: all their patches. You know, they kind of high, but
Speaker 1: not high, but that's their identity. So much pride is
Speaker 1: in that identity and in who they are and what
Speaker 1: they've achieved. And then the next day they step out
Speaker 1: of their house and there's no more uniform and they
Speaker 1: look in the mirror and there's no more green Beret.
Speaker 1: It's just you. And that's what I dealt with. That's
Speaker 1: that was a struggle. A challenge for me was I lost.
Speaker 1: I had no purpose. You know, you go from leading
Speaker 1: guys in combat and so you have so much responsibility
Speaker 1: and so so many things that you're you're responsible for,
Speaker 1: and then the next day there's nothing. And for the
Speaker 1: first couple of years I was struggling with that. I
Speaker 1: was struggling hard with it. I feel like I didn't
Speaker 1: have a purpose. I didn't have a goal. You know,
Speaker 1: throughout your whole career, the Army gives you goals. Make
Speaker 1: this rank, Oh, you made that rank, here's another rank.
Speaker 1: Go to this school, like you constantly have things to
Speaker 1: shoot for. You go to this school. Well, now you
Speaker 1: go to this school and become even better. And when
Speaker 1: that's taken away from guys like us, I think that
Speaker 1: are you know, motivated and you know you're driven by
Speaker 1: that success. When it's gone, it leaves you, It leaves
Speaker 1: you kind of empty inside. And it's funny. I just
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to do it. I just started working
Speaker 1: on working on wood one day in the garage and
Speaker 1: I liked it, and it was it was kind of
Speaker 1: you know. Where I struggle with my mental health, nick is,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure a lot of people do, is staying
Speaker 1: in the present. I'm either in the past or I'm
Speaker 1: in the future. Yep, you know. I a therapist tell me, like,
Speaker 1: when you eat, enjoy your food. Chew it, chew it,
Speaker 1: chew everybody ten times, like, enjoy your food. Don't think
Speaker 1: about what you have to do after you eat. That's
Speaker 1: what I do. I just eat because I'm hungry. I
Speaker 1: don't eat to enjoy the food. And it's and she's
Speaker 1: a hundred I understand what she was trying to say.
Speaker 1: It's enjoy them now and being the now. And I
Speaker 1: have not been able to do that for many, many years.
Speaker 1: And and that's what it gave me. I noticed when
Speaker 1: I started doing it, I was literally stuck in the
Speaker 1: present and focused on this task of creating whatever else creating.
Speaker 1: And I felt good, you know, when it was done.
Speaker 1: I had a sense of accomplishment. It just was all healthy,
Speaker 1: it was all positive, and I ended up being good
Speaker 1: at it, you know. And that's just the qualities I
Speaker 1: learned from playing sports and hard work and determination and
Speaker 1: you know, finishing things, you know, to completion. Those were
Speaker 1: all characteristics that made me successful with this wop business.
Speaker 1: And it's been like a new it's been like a
Speaker 1: breath of pressure. Are really I feel reborn, like I
Speaker 1: have this. I've been able to almost close I think
Speaker 1: Team trek Is has helped me with this as well,
Speaker 1: almost turn the page in this book and close that
Speaker 1: chapter and start a new one, which has been big
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Nick, that's amazing. And speaking of book, I mean I
Speaker 2: heard in the pod and now when we talked at
Speaker 2: you started putting pen to paper.
Speaker 1: I did. I did. Actually I talked to the editor
Speaker 1: yesterday and things are moving forward, is looking very very good.
Speaker 1: I just started another another thing I do is I
Speaker 1: tried and journal, you know, get thoughts out on paper.
Speaker 1: It's healthy, it works for me. And I just started writing.
Speaker 1: Team kind of brought up these memories and you know
Speaker 1: it does have a hard time sleeping, and so I
Speaker 1: started put them on paper just to get them out.
Speaker 1: And then I started put them in chuntological order, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, these are great stories. And I started
Speaker 1: looking into writing a book and contact some people and
Speaker 1: before you know it, the ball is rolling. So the
Speaker 1: title of the book is from the Battlefield to the war,
Speaker 1: and basically it's it's my journey. It's not a war book.
Speaker 1: It's not about war stories. I made it very clear
Speaker 1: to that that's not what I wanted. I want this
Speaker 1: the mental health self help book for guys like me
Speaker 1: that suffered trauma, retired from the military and didn't realize that,
Speaker 1: like I didn't realize, you know, I left the battlefield.
Speaker 1: I don't have to go there anymore, which is great,
Speaker 1: and I can move on, you know, to the sunset,
Speaker 1: rainbows and unicorns. But when you know, when that retirement
Speaker 1: came and I stepped looking for those rainbows and unicorns,
Speaker 1: all I found was war that was worse than the battlefield.
Speaker 1: You know, I'll go back to Afghancian any day to
Speaker 1: uh then this war, you know, this war in my head,
Speaker 1: this war with myself and struggling with self worth. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, the older I get, the more you reflect
Speaker 1: on things you did over there and a lot of
Speaker 1: things that I wasn't ready for. And you know, it
Speaker 1: took me to some dark places. I had to fight
Speaker 1: through some dark places to get where I am today.
Speaker 1: And I'm lucky. I'm lucky that I was able to
Speaker 1: do that. If it wasn't for some key people at
Speaker 1: some key times being there for me when I needed
Speaker 1: it most. I probably want to be here anymore, you know.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of guys out there that don't
Speaker 1: have that. They don't have that savior or that angel
Speaker 1: that comes down and picks them up and it brings
Speaker 1: them somewhere and get some help. A lot of guys
Speaker 1: don't have that. So I think this book, my intentions
Speaker 1: of writing it is for these guys to hopefully read
Speaker 1: it and realize they're not alone. Many people have gone
Speaker 1: through that struggle. Many people have risen above it and
Speaker 1: are living. You're always gonna have PTSD, We're always gonna
Speaker 1: have issues, We're always gonna have those things going on
Speaker 1: in our lives. But there's things that you can do.
Speaker 1: There's steps you can take, and there's groups and fellowship
Speaker 1: with other vets that you know what you have PTSD
Speaker 1: boot through that holistic approach of being healthy. It brings
Speaker 1: it down to a manageable level. You know, your life
Speaker 1: isn't unmanageable anymore. It's actually manageable and you can find
Speaker 1: some joy in it. So that that's the that's the
Speaker 1: mission of that book.
Speaker 2: Dude, that's that's amazing that you're I mean, it's clearly
Speaker 2: you're just trying to help other people, you know, by
Speaker 2: coming on and sharing with us, with me, you're you're
Speaker 2: gonna help other people. I mean, you know, listen, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, we're talking sports, we're talking
Speaker 2: all these different things, parenting, helping people. But I mean
Speaker 2: we're talking about life. You know, we're talking about real
Speaker 2: life and how everything kind of helps one another. These
Speaker 2: lessons that kids learn, and as parents we can take
Speaker 2: this information your experience and be able to recognize and
Speaker 2: be able to help. And I just applaud you for
Speaker 2: not only you know, your unbelievable service to our country,
Speaker 2: but also you know what you're doing now, getting vulnerable
Speaker 2: and showing people and veterans and anybody anybody who's out
Speaker 2: there who thinks they can't talk to anybody, they're not alone,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But someone like you, who's
Speaker 2: as strong and who's been where you're ben, it's just
Speaker 2: it's extremely powerful coming from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, nig I appreciate the opportunity to get on
Speaker 1: here and get that message out because you're right, does
Speaker 1: a matter if your soldier as a matter of your
Speaker 1: thirteen year old kid playing baseball. You know, both those
Speaker 1: guys think that they're alone. They think that they're the
Speaker 1: only ones that have this problem, and you know, and
Speaker 1: it's sad because and I was there. I was there.
Speaker 1: I was isolated, thinking that nobody knows what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: nobody understands what I'm going through. And how wrong could
Speaker 1: I be because I was taking to a place where
Speaker 1: there are many people with that struggle, and all you
Speaker 1: had to do is talk to him, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think that's important for kids, for for everybody to
Speaker 1: understand that you're not alone no matter what your struggle is.
Speaker 1: We've been through it.
Speaker 2: Matt Doc. Where can people find you? You know, what
Speaker 2: are your where? Where can they find that they want
Speaker 2: to follow? I mean you're making these ridiculous custom surfboards
Speaker 2: and all this different stuff, Like where can people follow you?
Speaker 2: See your content, see what you're doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Best is on Instagram Hardy f Wood Designs. Just
Speaker 1: go on there and follow. I got all my works
Speaker 1: posted on there, all the you know, the team trek,
Speaker 1: the videos, everything that you need is on that Instagram. Dick.
Speaker 2: I love it, man, If you haven't yet, go check it.
Speaker 2: Out Team Trek. The podcast Matt Docio on there is
Speaker 2: a three part series. It is It'll blow your hair back.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: I'm just wanting to tell you this. Put your hard
Speaker 2: hat on because it's gonna you might it might sting
Speaker 2: a little bit listening to it, but it's real life.
Speaker 2: And Matt Bro, I just can't think you know here
Speaker 2: we are. Last time I saw it was at Brenha
Speaker 2: Musey's wedding b muse But we've talked several times through
Speaker 2: the years, and man, it's good to catch up with
Speaker 2: the old friend. Man. I'm grateful for you coming on
Speaker 2: and Sharon.
Speaker 1: Bro it's awesome. Thank you so much. Nick's stay in touch.
Speaker 2: That's retired Stargeant first Class Matthew Docio. Thanks for listening
Speaker 2: to the Reform Sports Project podcast. I'm Nick Bonacort and
Speaker 2: our goal is to restore a healthy balance and perspective
Speaker 2: in all areas of sport through education and advocacy. For updates,
Speaker 2: please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check
Speaker 2: out our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project