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Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to the Jeffrey Epstein podcast Extravaganza,

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Speaker 1: also known on normal weeks as Behind the Bastards of

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Speaker 1: podcasts about bad people. For the last two weeks, that's

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Speaker 1: meant Jeffrey Epstein, particularly getting into what the new Epstein

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Speaker 1: File releases have revealed about how Jeffrey Epstein helped build

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Speaker 1: the modern world. Speaking of the modern world, our guest

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Speaker 1: today is a part of it, Andrew T.

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Speaker 2: Thanks thanks for having me. I Ah, yeah, I guess

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Speaker 2: I would say part of the modern world under protest

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Speaker 2: at this point. Yeah, under protest.

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Speaker 1: Isn't everyone?

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Speaker 2: Aren't we all under protest? I'm only here I have

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Speaker 2: to be. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The only part of the modern world I want to

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Speaker 1: anything to do with is my bed, and they make

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Speaker 1: me leave that for like sixteen hours a day.

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Speaker 2: It's nuts, you know what though, Being one of those

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Speaker 2: I hate the modern world guys, I do want to

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Speaker 2: stress not one of those. It was better in Rome.

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Speaker 2: What happened to classical architecture.

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Speaker 1: I would have hated that too. Anything where I have

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Speaker 1: to get out of my bed. Bad society bad only

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Speaker 1: we need to Yeah, we need to rebuild society and

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Speaker 1: direly around naps that That is my strong opinion. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I think Jeffrey Epstein might have agreed with it, at

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Speaker 1: least for himself, because he liked to well, there wasn't

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Speaker 1: a lot of sleep. Yeah, anyway, Andrew, where can people

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Speaker 1: find you on.

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Speaker 2: The internet before we can do? Oh god, thanks thanks

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Speaker 2: for letting me get it in before the fucking real

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Speaker 2: crimes start.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the real crimes too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, Andrew t everywhere. I have doing

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Speaker 2: a podcast called Starter Trek on subop dot com. My

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Speaker 2: main podcast is jos Us Racist, but we've been having

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun doing talking Star Trek with my

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Speaker 2: co host Tony Newso. Who is I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you I love that stuff. If your star spoiler alert people,

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Speaker 2: but she's a beloved reveal happens in episode five of

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Speaker 2: Starfleet Academies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the new star Trek.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Star Trek is happening. That's all.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a good thing to be happening. We love

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Speaker 1: Star Trek almost as much as we love the opposite

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Speaker 1: of Star Trek, which is about hearing about a wealthy pedophile.

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Speaker 3: This yeah yeah, well, also wealthy technocrat.

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Speaker 1: A wealthy technocrat pedophile. Yes, exactly, the sort of person

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Speaker 1: Star Trek got rid of in the in the The

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Speaker 1: Idealized Future Injeene Roddenberry's Beautiful Dream No More.

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Speaker 2: Because of literally this, this.

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Speaker 4: And in modern times. We're recording these episodes on the

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Speaker 4: day that Glene Maxwell's lawyer has said that she will

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Speaker 4: not talk unless she's given clemency. But if given clemency,

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Speaker 4: she can prove that both Donald J. Trump and Bill

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Speaker 4: Clinton are innocent.

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Speaker 5: So that's that's cool.

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Speaker 1: It's tough for me because I hate that stuff, but

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Speaker 1: I also love people pleading the Fifth.

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fan.

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Speaker 5: I'm a big fifth man.

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Speaker 1: It's tough, it's tough. These are these are the times

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Speaker 1: that try men's souls.

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Speaker 5: But I have to say I have questions.

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Speaker 1: Question it's the best. It's the best amendment easily, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fifth.

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised she didn't at this point, you're just pinting

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Speaker 2: it on a dead man, right like this is this

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Speaker 2: is exactly we be eating up murders once he's in

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Speaker 2: for life. Yeah, I mean, we'll.

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Speaker 5: See how it goes. But I have some theories that

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Speaker 5: you know, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't anything could happen at this point,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking a lot about Gillen in these episodes

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Speaker 1: just because they're more focused on Jeffrey and the nature

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Speaker 1: of his communication. We're not talking really a lot about

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Speaker 1: the sex stuff in this episode because it's more about

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Speaker 1: all of the different I mean, we're talking about it

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Speaker 1: to the extent that that's part of how he influenced people.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about like what stuff Jeffrey came to believe

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Speaker 1: and how he tried to shift the world you using

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Speaker 1: his position of considerable cultural influence. So in May of

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Jeffrey Epstein was actively working through an intermediary

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Speaker 1: to broker and in person meeting with the most Obviously

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Speaker 1: it's a match made in heaven, Russian President Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, if you're jeff Epstein in twenty thirteen trying

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Speaker 1: to get an in person sit down with Vladi Puts,

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Speaker 1: what are your wanting to talk about?

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Speaker 2: Bitcoin? Of course, what.

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Speaker 1: Else could you want to talk about Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 2: With but bitcoin?

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Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, his intermediary in these conversations was thorbiorn Yaglund,

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Speaker 1: who is a Norwegian Labor Party politician and the former

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Speaker 1: Prime minister of Norway. He has been he is not

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Speaker 1: doing well as a result of the revelation that he

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Speaker 1: and Epstein were quite close. People are very unhappy with

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Speaker 1: him over in Norway.

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Speaker 2: God's weird, like imaginal Leader facing a consequence for his

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Speaker 2: association with Weird Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for specifically trying to broker a meeting with that

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Speaker 1: pedophile in Vladimir Putin. And it's it's weird because you

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Speaker 1: can tell Epstein took this really seriously. This is a

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Speaker 1: guy who kind of seems to have, i mean slept

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Speaker 1: through a lot of the serious parts of his life.

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Speaker 1: When he's emailing with most of his rich and famous friends,

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Speaker 1: he spells fucking every other word wrong. It's like watching

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a nine year old typing right

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Speaker 1: like it's it's he's not dedicated to sounding.

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Speaker 4: Good righting like bad AOL and messenger messages like it's

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Speaker 4: giving AOL.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so, as we talked about in the last episodes,

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Speaker 1: whenever Jeffrey like has a long, multi paragraph email where

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Speaker 1: everything's basically spelled right and written properly, you are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he was taking this, this was important to him, Like

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Speaker 1: he was this was an all hands on deck situation right.

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Speaker 1: And so one of these emails that Jeffrey sends to

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Speaker 1: the former PM of Norway about trying to meet with

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Speaker 1: Putin is one of these times where he writes a

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Speaker 1: long email with pretty good spelling and grammar. So we

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Speaker 1: must have typed this one out somewhere other than his iPad.

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Speaker 1: Here's a segment from that email. This is his pitch

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Speaker 1: to this guy. When this is his pitch to this

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Speaker 1: guy to deliver to Putin right. This is how he's

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Speaker 1: basically trying to convince Putin he's got to get into

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin game. When Spudnik was announced, the West was

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Speaker 1: caught flat footed. The same can now happen with Russia

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Speaker 1: taking the lead in finance. Instead of competing with the

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Speaker 1: West for nanotech copying Silicon Valley looking for startups playing

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Speaker 1: ketchup to Microsoft, Apple, Google and the like, Russia can

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Speaker 1: get out in front and leap frog the global community

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Speaker 1: by reinventing the financial system of the twenty first century Bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Who is the spotnik of the twenty first century?

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Speaker 2: I genuinely have to say it is a little heartening

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Speaker 2: slash disheartening that these people genuinely believe they're bullshit, like

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Speaker 2: this was a private conversation. He rightly. I'm just yeah,

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Speaker 2: I on some level just wish that Bitcoin people in private,

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Speaker 2: when the billionaires are talking to each other, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be great for money laundering and

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Speaker 2: like whatever it's actually used for. It is a little

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Speaker 2: insane to hear him like typing like a like a

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Speaker 2: like a Twitter person right now.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to say because like one of the

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Speaker 1: versions of the story is that Epstein was one of

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Speaker 1: the marks, right that the bitcoin people were willing to

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Speaker 1: talk to him and be friends with him, primarily even

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Speaker 1: more than the prostitutions to the child like sex trafficking stuff,

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Speaker 1: because Jeffrey could connect him to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: with real money to put into the bitcoin system. And

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Speaker 1: maybe they never maybe they were just playing with Jeffrey,

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Speaker 1: and maybe he was a fool, or maybe Jeffrey knows,

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Speaker 1: maybe he's in on the con And the idea is

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Speaker 1: if Russia back, if Russia gets a bitcoin reserve, a

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Speaker 1: shitload of their real currency can flow out to the

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Speaker 1: people like us who have money and crypto, and we

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Speaker 1: can get real money out of the create Like I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the plan was.

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Speaker 2: And also like trying to talk to poo like an

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Speaker 2: actual bitcoin mark is is that's so too smart?

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Speaker 1: Yet he's way too smart for that, Like he's not.

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is not an idiot.

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Speaker 2: He's not.

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Speaker 1: He's made his plenty of mistakes, but none of them

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Speaker 1: are like and then he adopted bitcoin. It's the currency

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Speaker 1: for the Russian Federation. That's a little like, that's just

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Speaker 1: there's no benefit in that to him, like it would

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Speaker 1: only benefit these It's.

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Speaker 2: Always one D chess, it's one d, Like these people

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Speaker 2: are not smarter than you, they're actively dumber than you. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and that's hang on to that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hang onto it and celebrate it. And it's also

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Speaker 1: funny to me just the idea that like Sputnik, was

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union succeeding and doing a thing that honestly,

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Speaker 1: before they did it was debated by a number of people,

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Speaker 1: like can we even do stuff like this? Like is

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Speaker 1: this fully possible? Can you get a working satellite into orbit?

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Speaker 1: There was like debate for quite a while as to

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Speaker 1: help possible that was, and then they figure it out

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Speaker 1: like ahead of us, and it's this amazing moment for

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Speaker 1: all mankind. They prove you can do this thing that

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Speaker 1: hadn't been done before, and the difference with it and saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this thing that we are already doing, if you just

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Speaker 1: rip it off, you'll be doing the Sputnik of the

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Speaker 1: twenty which really says a lot about the twenty first

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Speaker 1: century that like our sputnik is ripping off a thing

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Speaker 1: that doesn't do anything and already exists.

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Speaker 2: Like amazing stuff. Jeffrey, if you have the bold vision

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Speaker 2: to creator your economy and the global economy, you will

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Speaker 2: be the first to do.

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Speaker 1: You can do it, You can do it. Yeah, no

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Speaker 1: one else has made bitcoin their national currency yet because

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Speaker 1: it's a bad idea. Epstein goes on to claim that

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Speaker 1: crypto offers the potential for a much more advanced, disruptive

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Speaker 1: securitization scheme than anything previously achievable, and that Russia was

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Speaker 1: in a unique position to execute on a grand vision

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Speaker 1: of a new form of money. He insists that Thorbiorn

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Speaker 1: needs to secure him and putin a minimum two to

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Speaker 1: three hour long meeting to discuss all of this. I

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Speaker 1: find that's so funny that he's like begging to set

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Speaker 1: up this meeting with Vladimir Putin, who has no interest

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Speaker 1: in him at least no interest in meeting with him.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like, uh, you know, maybe he was

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Speaker 1: utilizing him as an asset. There's some evidence of that,

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Speaker 1: but that also doesn't mean Putin himself was directly involved

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Speaker 1: because he's got other shit in his plate. The idea

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Speaker 1: that that Jeffrey's begging for this meeting is but it

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Speaker 1: has to be at least two or three hours. I

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Speaker 1: won't sit down for anything less. It's like, man, if

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Speaker 1: if you can get you twenty minutes with Putin, you'd

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Speaker 1: be happy for it.

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Speaker 2: Don't.

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Speaker 1: Don't fucking bullshit like me. And Putin's showing better judgment

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Speaker 1: than anyone else in these four episodes declined to meet

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Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein at least as far as we know.

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Speaker 5: Wow, well, I at.

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Speaker 2: Least big smart enough to not agree to it on

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Speaker 2: fucking email put him in an email, right, Yeah, Wise,

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Speaker 2: he's at least ahead of everyone.

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Speaker 1: He's he's beating Bobby Kotik of Activision, Blizzard, and Peter Deal,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this this Dallian's Jeffrey has was trying to get

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Speaker 1: Russia on the bitcoin train, is not influential because of

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Speaker 1: the outcome. Because nothing really happens here, but it's important

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Speaker 1: because of what it says about where Jeff's head was

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Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen. By this point, whether or not.

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Speaker 5: Huggins Jeff, I don't like you.

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Speaker 4: I don't like you calling him Jeff, it's like too

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Speaker 4: humanizing to call him Jeff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I do it every now and then, Jeff Jeffeye, no,

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Speaker 1: little Jeff Rue Nope. So by twenty thirteen, whether or

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Speaker 1: not he'd ever read Dugan's work, he was basically pitching

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Speaker 1: Putin on bitcoin's potential to contribute to a multipolar world

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Speaker 1: by ending US economic dominance. And emails he sent around

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Speaker 1: the same time to billionaire Richard Branson, Epstein pitched his

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Speaker 1: vague idea for what he called a new social good

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Speaker 1: currency quote. Creating a new social good currency similar to

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Speaker 1: the creation of airline mile awards, special drawing rights, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: would be the most disruptive of all advances. The financial

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Speaker 1: system has outgrown its purpose allowing people to conduct exchange

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Speaker 1: with third party trust and ease of transaction. So what

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Speaker 1: you kind of see is there's this budding interest Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: has to disrupt the global order, which is a different

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Speaker 1: picture of the man than I had when he just

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Speaker 1: seemed to be this guy who was very deeply tied

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Speaker 1: to the elite system and seem to really have all

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Speaker 1: of his power tied to the maintenance of that system,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to a guy who after he gets out

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Speaker 1: of prison clearly wants to burn stuff down to some extent, right,

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Speaker 1: in a way that's very familiar with how a lot

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Speaker 1: of wright coded people talk today, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: influential folks like Bannon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yes and no, though, because they don't

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Speaker 2: really mean burning it down, like.

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Speaker 1: Well, they mean burn the fed US democracy, that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: They want to disrupt the system they rose up in. Right,

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Speaker 1: They don't want it to keep working the way it has.

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Speaker 2: Right, but they wanted to They want society to look largely,

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Speaker 2: they wanted to look more like Russia, which is like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're in charge, but it's basically the same society.

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Speaker 1: And I think he's so weird. Yeah, I think you

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Speaker 1: can see a lot of that here in that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So he goes to prison for a thing that if

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Speaker 1: you were a Russian oligarch who stays in good with Putin,

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Speaker 1: you don't go to prison for the stuff Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: was doing. Right, So maybe that's kind of it as

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Speaker 1: he's like, well, we ought to be more like we

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Speaker 1: need to be more of an oligarchy, of a dictatorial oligarchy,

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Speaker 1: because then people me and other people like me won't

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Speaker 1: have consequences to deal with. Right, Maybe that's why he's like,

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Speaker 1: that's how he's thinking. You know, so Richard Branson and

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Speaker 1: Epstein are two more. That's another famed Epstein friendship, right,

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Speaker 1: and his close relationship with Branson was a two way street.

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Speaker 1: And a little later that same year, twenty thirteen, Branson

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Speaker 1: offered Epstein advice on fixing his public image after the

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Speaker 1: whole registered sex offender thing. He assured Epstein that he

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Speaker 1: could repair Jeffrey's public profile if Epstein could just get

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates to vouch for him. And this is Branson

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Speaker 1: saying like, basically, this is what you need to get

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates to say about you to fix your image. Quote,

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Speaker 1: you've been a brilliant advisor to him that you slipped

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Speaker 1: up many years ago by sleeping with a seventeen and

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Speaker 1: a half year old woman and we're punished for it.

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Speaker 1: That you've more than learned your lesson and have done

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Speaker 1: nothing that's against the law since right, if only Bill

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Speaker 1: Gates would say but can you imagine if Bill Gates

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Speaker 1: and twenty fourteen or so had come up in like, look,

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Speaker 1: did Jeffrey Epstein sleep with a child? Yes, but he's

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Speaker 1: learned his lesson and we all need to forgive him,

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Speaker 1: none of this would be happening.

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Speaker 5: God, I mean, all these men are sucking, disgusting.

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Speaker 1: They're disgusting. It's not just disgusting, it's completely out of touch.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Richard Branson it shows you how warping

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Speaker 1: the bubble of nothing but other rich guys is that

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Speaker 1: Richard Branson is like, who's someone who all Americans love

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Speaker 1: in respect love Bill Gates? Obvious everyone loves Bill.

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Speaker 2: No, we don't. We never did. I guess it's just

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Speaker 2: like get get the nerd to tell to tell everyone

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Speaker 2: you're you're not committing crimes? Is yeah, And there he's

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Speaker 2: the squarest one around, right Bill, Bill Gates, you know,

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Speaker 2: a straight shooter. So on a related note, that same year,

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, this's a big year for Branson and Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Richard Branson reversed the normal order of things, and he's

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Speaker 2: this is the only time I found this happening, although

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Speaker 2: I haven't been through all of the millions of files released,

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Speaker 2: But Branson invited Epstein to his private island.

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Speaker 1: You know, there we go. Finally somebody's willing to pay

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Speaker 1: Jeff back for his hospitality, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, Branton's Island can't be I guess at

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Speaker 2: the risk of it can't be that good.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I would have said before this, I would have guessed

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Speaker 1: it had it was like a higher age bracket of

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Speaker 1: the yeah people. But I don't actually know that that's

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Speaker 1: true now, So, yeah, is this just like the fucking

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Speaker 1: cheap version of Epstein's Island? Or is Epstein's Island the

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Speaker 1: cheap pedophile island?

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Speaker 2: Right? That's also possible.

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Speaker 1: We simply don't know. Maybe the really good pedophile islands

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Speaker 1: don't tell have emails where they talk about yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Branson added to the invite anytime you're in the area,

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Speaker 1: would love to see you, as long as you bring

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Speaker 1: your harem and all, and with a exclamation point after it,

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Speaker 1: So I would say that implicates email.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: My favorite thing about this, my favorite thing about all

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Speaker 1: this is the denials all these people have to have

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Speaker 1: their spokespeople issue after this shit comes out and once

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Speaker 1: this email people start talking about it. Oh, Branson's referring

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Speaker 1: to his harem and inviting him to his island. I

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Speaker 1: guess he's probably doing some sex crimes. Branson spokesperson told

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Speaker 1: journalists with The Independent that no, no, on the harem

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Speaker 1: he was referring to, We're just adult members of Epstein's staff.

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Speaker 1: Obviously Jesus obviously. Yeah, who were they?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Not named?

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Speaker 2: Not named?

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Speaker 1: Which ones kill your name? So the worst? Again? Does

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Speaker 1: this mean that Jeffrey was just bringing bringing children over

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Speaker 1: when Branson was there? Was he was Branson one of

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Speaker 1: the ones that he played with teenage girls? Or was

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Speaker 1: Branson one of the ones that he plaied with adult women?

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Speaker 2: Right? No way to know.

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Speaker 1: And honestly, I don't care if you're Jeffrey Epstein's friend

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Speaker 1: at this point, in inviting him to islands, I consider

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Speaker 1: you guilty of everything he was. You know, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's reasonable if you're going to islands with him, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: on a regular basis, If you're inviting him to islands

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Speaker 1: and talking about his arm, if.

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Speaker 4: You're advising Bill Gates to be his like, no pedophile spokesperson. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: then I'm yeah, I'm gonna go with.

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Speaker 1: The I'm gonna say no.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna go not a great guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just the almost frat house shit. It's always it's

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Speaker 2: never better than that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, now that's.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to question of like, well, why aren't

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Speaker 1: these guys getting charged, Well, because all you have is

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Speaker 1: Branson saying bring your harem, and that's not Branson didn't

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Speaker 1: say bring specifically the underage members. I don't want anyone

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Speaker 1: older than Sie. That's not in an email, right, So

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Speaker 1: there's not I don't think there's anything to charge Branson

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Speaker 1: off of at this point. Maybe there will be, maybe

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Speaker 1: there's more stuff that we don't know. I'm not against it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, I'm not surprised a lot of

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Speaker 1: these guys aren't getting charged yet, because that's not quite enough,

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Speaker 1: you know, to actually convict someone. The worst harms Epstein

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Speaker 1: committed and the worst crimes his friends are implicated and

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Speaker 1: took place offline. The conversations we have documented are mostly

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Speaker 1: either precursors or adjacent to the really bad stuff. Every

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Speaker 1: now and then you get something truly fucking horrifying, like

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Speaker 1: there's an email chain in which one of Epstein's friends

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, who is that gynecologist you sent your

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Speaker 1: victims to? And Epstein like gives him the name of

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Speaker 1: a gynecology and they're like, yeah, you really keep this

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Speaker 1: guy busy, right, Like there's some horrifying shit like that

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Speaker 1: in there, but for the most part, it's like quips

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Speaker 1: like this, bring your harem. And then like one interesting

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Speaker 1: thing to do on the Epstein files is search for

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Speaker 1: variants of like not for email or like not for

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Speaker 1: online right where, because there will be points where people

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Speaker 1: will be made and then they'll be like, hey, let's

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Speaker 1: take this to a phone call.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So it's just hard to kind of say what the

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Speaker 1: exact extent of a lot of stuff was, And because

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Speaker 1: so many follow up conversations that he had not even

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Speaker 1: about the criminal stuff, but about stuff like crypto, took

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Speaker 1: place in person or over the phone, And so I

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Speaker 1: can say he was trying to influence the development of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin and crypto he wanted, and he got that influence.

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Speaker 1: What did he do with it not entirely clear to me.

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Speaker 1: What I can say is that Joey Edo and Epstein's

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Speaker 1: friendship continued to blossom throughout the aughts, and this was

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Speaker 1: Remember Itto is a big wigged MIT. He's basically like

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Speaker 1: running the lab that's doing like their crypto development, looking

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Speaker 1: at a lot of stuff like that. And he's the

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Speaker 1: guy who Jeffrey to pay the salaries of those three

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Speaker 1: big bitcoin debts. And this is the friendship between Itto

401
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Speaker 1: and Epstein is very good for MIT. The school receives

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Speaker 1: at least eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars from the

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Speaker 1: Epstein Foundation directly to Itto's projects from two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two to twenty seventeen, in addition to other donations. You

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Speaker 1: also have to keep in mind that, given how Epstein operated,

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Speaker 1: he was responsible for an unknowable amount of donations to

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Speaker 1: MIT from other rich guys in foundations. Right, he donated

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Speaker 1: eight hundred and fifty k to MIT over this period.

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Speaker 1: Who knows how much other money he got sent there

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Speaker 1: by being Epstein. Itto and MIT continued to accept Epstein's

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Speaker 1: money for almost a decade after his conviction for sex crimes.

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Speaker 1: And I shouldn't just limit it to Edo. As the

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Speaker 1: tech dot Com has summarized in an article on the subject,

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Speaker 1: Professor of mechanical Engineering SETH. Lloyd received research funding went

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Speaker 1: to Epstein's private island and visited Epstein while he was

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Speaker 1: in prison. Following the investigation, Lloyd was put on paid

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Speaker 1: administrative leave. However, Lloyd retains his team, Your professorship. Former

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Speaker 1: president of MIT, Raphael Raife, signed a letter thanking Epstein

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Speaker 1: for odnation in twenty twelve, just six weeks into his presidency.

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Speaker 1: In a statement to MIT released in twenty nineteen, Raife

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Speaker 1: stated that Itto asked for permission to retain this initial gift,

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Speaker 1: and members of my senior team allowed it. Epstein's gifts

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Speaker 1: were also disgusted at least one of MIT's regular senior

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Speaker 1: team meetings with rape present. So a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in MIT should have known better, right, And Ito himself

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Speaker 1: is particularly but not the only guy who was visiting

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Speaker 1: Epstein and probably involved in the criminal stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right. Because it's also like, like eight hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: dollars is a lot of money, sign a lot of

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Speaker 2: money for MIT, Like what is its endowment in the building.

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Speaker 2: It means like.

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Speaker 1: The endowment's big, but for individuals, and again you have

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Speaker 1: to assume its several million.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, over few years. I'm just saying, in

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Speaker 2: the grand scheme of things, every kind of financial like

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Speaker 2: some of the biggest malfeasan says that happened. I am

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Speaker 2: a little surprised that the actual price tag.

438
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: I will just say there's a couple of things. One is,

439
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: first off, people get this wrong all the time. Jeffrey

440
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: Epstein's not a billionaire. Never was no evidence that he

441
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 1: ever was. He died when he died as net worth

442
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: was about six hundred million dollars, right, And this is

443
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: a guy who lied a lot and put in there's

444
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: not really much practical difference between six hundred million and

445
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: a billion or two in terms of what other people

446
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: would notice about your spending. They're both enough for yacht

447
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 1: to arrive at islands, right.

448
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: You know.

449
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: One thing though, that, as you point out, this does review,

450
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: is that how little money it really takes to bribe

451
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: a lot of very influential people.

452
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: To change the world, you know, right, It's less than

453
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: you want it to be. Yeah.

454
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: Part of the problem is that for most billionaires in

455
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: the low billions, a lot of their money I mean

456
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: for all billionaires, really a lot of and most of

457
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: their actual assets are tied up in things that are

458
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: not liquid cash, right.

459
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: Right.

460
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: So even for these guys getting a million dollars or

461
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: something in cash to throw it a single project is

462
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: a pretty big donation for a lot of people at

463
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: Epstein's level of wealth, right, Yeah, So I would.

464
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 4: Say that like his connection to like crypto bros. Is

465
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,959
Speaker 4: not that surprising to me. But what is surprising is

466
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 4: like the Epstein to academia pipeline being oh yeah.

467
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 5: So massive.

468
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 4: I mean not to say that there isn't you know,

469
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 4: anybody who's worked in academia can talk about how political

470
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 4: and wild it is, but it's just there's his reach

471
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 4: is just disgustingly big.

472
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 5: Is part of it is just like venomous.

473
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: Well yeah, part of it is again he's spreading a

474
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: lot of money around. And part of it is that

475
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: all of these these like the academics he's going to

476
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: our guys, who are a lot of them like you know,

477
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: interest very interested in cryptocurrency, very interested in a lot

478
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: of controversial you know stuff that winds up being part

479
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 1: of the alt right, and what a lot of these

480
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: academics that he's friends with in the early two thousands

481
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: to the aughts wind up being like weird right wing

482
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: guys because that's just kind of the crew that he's

483
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: running with and these are kind of a lot of

484
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: these are just people that are like addicted to the

485
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: idea of being smarter than everybody else and on the

486
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: cutting edge of shit. And that means they fall for

487
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: a lot of dumb stuff because none of them, they're

488
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: all PhDs and shit, none of them are as smart

489
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: as they think they are. Right, well, there's just usually

490
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: true of people.

491
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: Even though there's a stereotype of the liberal Ivory tower

492
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: of academia. I mean, the reality is it's like, especially lately,

493
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: so many of these bozos with academic sounding but bad

494
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: ideas can only exist in an ecosystem of academia and

495
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: tener and economics professorships and like right wing philosophy professorships

496
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: because their ideas don't actually work. They actually you know,

497
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: buy their own pitard. They couldn't they could never survive

498
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: in the free market.

499
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: It's the huge problem we have because you also have

500
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: a version of this problem when it comes to uh

501
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: like copyright and AI right, where it's like, well, our

502
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: copy right laws and intellectual property laws are a fucking disaster.

503
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: And I had.

504
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: Never in my life stood up for that kind of

505
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: thing up until all of these AI companies want to

506
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: suck up everything that human beings have ever created and

507
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: remix it. And then it's like, well, maybe it's it's

508
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: just the weapon we have, and I don't really like it.

509
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: And I understand there's a lot of arguments about, well,

510
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: this is problematic, but what else are we going to

511
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: do at this point?

512
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 2: Right?

513
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: I can see that argument, And it's kind of like

514
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: with with academia. The war the right has been waging

515
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: on college and on the system of tenure and whatnot

516
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: is disastrous, but also academia has a lot of problems,

517
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: like the fact, like the very structure of how higher

518
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: education works is a part of why our entire generation

519
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: owes all of their money to colleges. Right, I think

520
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of problems with the way the system works.

521
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: And so I know, just because Trump's destroying it and

522
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: I'm against that, I don't want to be like, but

523
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: the system works great before, because it didn't. All these

524
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: guys were friends with Jeffrey Epstein, you know. To continue

525
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: along that line, Epstein used MIT to headhunt future influential

526
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: crypto developers that he wanted on his side, people like

527
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: Jeremy Rubin, who's today a noteworthy cryptocurrency researcher who was

528
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: connected to Epstein by Joyedo. In twenty fourteen, at around

529
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: the same time, Epstein was emailing with Peter Teal, who

530
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: was a friend of his and a regular confidant. Epstein

531
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: and Teal send a lot of emails to each other.

532
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: Jeffrey sends him a link to the New York State

533
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: Department of Financial Services, which had just announced that they

534
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: were going to m twenty fourteen, had just announced they

535
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: were going to consider proposals for regulating virtual currency exchanges,

536
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: and they published a list of proposed rules for the

537
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: New York based bitcoin businesses that very month. Epstein sends

538
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: this email to Teal with like a link to these

539
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 1: updated rules and titles it as I told you, basically

540
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: saying like, hey, I told you that New York was

541
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: going to start regulating crypto And Teal responded, do you

542
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: think this is the first step in upping the anti

543
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: bitcoin pressure? And here's Epstein basically, do you think this

544
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: is the first step in like the state governments and

545
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: the federal government coming out against crypto? And here's Epstein's reply. First,

546
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: it appears there is little agreement on what bitcoin is

547
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: store of intrinsic value if any currency, property, architecture, payment system,

548
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: et cetera, conflicting goals, anonymous but transparent public ledger like

549
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: the continuum now in the gender classification, fitting things into

550
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: narrow boxes seems old school man presenting a woman smells

551
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: like property presenting a currency anyway more, when I see you,

552
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: this is interesting for a few reasons. For one thing,

553
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: you have this kind of this acknowledgment from Jeffrey that

554
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: like no one really understands how like what bitcoin is,

555
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: Like like there's not a lot a widespread understanding about

556
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: like what it is, right because the people who are

557
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: marketing it are saying, like it frees you from the government.

558
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: It's totally anonymous, right, But also it's transparent because of

559
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: the public ledger, because like the proof of fucking workshit, right,

560
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: which is yeah, it is like the different things that

561
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: have bitcoin has been sold to was says it can't

562
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: be all of them. It literally can be. They were

563
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: lying about a bunch of stuff because bitcoin was more

564
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: than anything, a con right. But the fact that he

565
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: then the fact that he pivots to comparing it to

566
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: trans people and to the growing understanding that which in

567
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen was still you know, a lot more primitive

568
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: than it is today. That like, oh, gender is not

569
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: as like much of a binary as people, like most

570
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: people had assumed for all. Like, we're starting to kind

571
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: of talk about that a lot more, and Jeffrey's thinking

572
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: about it and aware of it, which is interesting because

573
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: come the late oughts, for the last period of his life,

574
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: he's going to be a big anti trans rite skuy, right,

575
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: and he's going to be seeding that world. And so

576
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to be that in twenty fourteen he's

577
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: thinking about this alongside bitcoin, right, And it's kind of

578
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: incoherent and again, not very smart the way he's thinking

579
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: about it, because that's not really accurate about bitcoin, Like

580
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: it's Bitcoin's not in fact like gender. People were just

581
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: like pretending bitcoin was anonymous to trick criminals into using

582
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: it so that more people would money into the system.

583
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: That's different than people understanding that gender is not as

584
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: binary as they thought it was, right, here's the difference. Yeah, Anyway,

585
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: For a further summary of Teal and Epstein's relationship, here's

586
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: what Ryan Broderick wrote in an issue of his newsletter

587
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: Garbage Day on the subject The earliest actual emails between

588
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: Epstein and Teal released so far from twenty fourteen, and

589
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: an email in June of twenty fifteen, Epstein connected Teal

590
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: with Sergei Belyakov, Russia's deputy Minister of Economic Development, an

591
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: alleged Russian intelligence operative. In an email to Teal a

592
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: month after that, Epstein alludes to a visit at his

593
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: Zoro ranch in New Mexico. In twenty fifteen, Epstein told

594
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: medical researcher and author Peter Attia, who was just named

595
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: as a new CBS contributor by Barry Weiss, whose wife

596
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: Nelly Bowles also corresponded with Epstein, that he was having

597
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: dinner with Musk, Teal, and Zuckerberg, and in twenty sixteen,

598
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: Epstein offered to share the expenses for Teal's lawsuit against Goker,

599
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: which would eventually bankrupt the outlet. We'll talk more about

600
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: that dinner.

601
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: So dumb. It's such a club of the dumbest motherfuckers

602
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: ever to live.

603
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: Well, And he's just he's he is connecting people to spies.

604
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: He's he is like and that this is why people

605
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 1: are like, was he literally just working for the Russian government?

606
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of he made. I think it

607
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: is likely just that he was as dumb as they were.

608
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of ooh, this guy's the Russian

609
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: deputy minister and probably a smile connect to my friend

610
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: Peter Deal. He does a lot of that shit. And

611
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: it's very similar to like Robert Maxwell Gilan Maxwell's dad,

612
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: where people I think wrongly are like he was a

613
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: Massad agent, and I was like, that would imply that,

614
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: like he was hired and trained by the Massad as

615
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: opposed to what the Massad. We know the Massad does,

616
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: which is they find like rich guys who are sympathetic

617
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: to Israel and make them feel special and feel like

618
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: they're James Bond in exchange for giving them information that's useful, right,

619
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: which is I think what and giving them tasks sometimes

620
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: you know, talk to this guy, get this guy to

621
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: say this thing, right, you know it bring us this

622
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: information they're using, just like the Russians are.

623
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like agent Jov, but in the way that

624
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: like so is like a chainsaw. It doesn't make it.

625
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I saw smart and I think there's good

626
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: evidence that Epstein was that kind of useful idiot. Both

627
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: the Russian government and for the Masade right, But that's

628
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: again an episode that's a subject for another series.

629
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: Of episodes that we would have to get into.

630
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: Now. The Tech in their rite up of all this,

631
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: points out one particularly interesting email chain from August of

632
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Epstein and Teal are discussing an accountant named

633
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: Richard who Epstein connected Joy Eedo with to set up

634
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: the paperwork for some kind of crypto launch. This is

635
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: likely Richard Khan, Epstein's personal accountant, and it's a little

636
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: unclear about why Teal needed to be in contact with

637
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: Khan other than some crypto project. And they were talking

638
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: about layer one and it's I didn't really know what

639
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: this meant, so I looked it up and in networking

640
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: jargon like the field of like computer networking, layer one

641
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: can refer to either data and equipment. I found a

642
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: website CBT and Nuggets that describes all this. Layer one

643
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: data is simply bits sent across a wire many many

644
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: zeros and ones. This is the network layer where that happens,

645
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: so that it can be transmitted somewhere else. So then

646
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: layer one equipment is the gear that lets you send

647
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: data and it uses and it's specifically the gear that

648
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: used to send data that uses little to know object

649
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: in operating, So it's the most basic equipment for sending data.

650
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: We're talking like Ethernet and fiber optic cables, as well

651
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: as physical transmission objects of any overwear technology, including like electricity.

652
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: So the fact that they we're talking with con about

653
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: layer one for some kind of cryptodeal could have been

654
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: a wide variety of things. But they were definitely talking

655
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: about like the very basic infrastructure that would be needed

656
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: to make this company function, right, So they could have

657
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: been talking about a variety of things. But when Itto

658
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: asks Jeffrey, like, how's CON's investigation doing into this stuff,

659
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Epstein responded, so far, it's not good. There seems to

660
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: be a disconnect between manipulation, currency valuation. It's how to

661
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: protect ourselves not easy. Itto then asks if he should

662
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: pass this on to the team, which again suggests Epstein

663
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: had an influential role shaping crypto projects that we're going

664
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: through MIT at the time. Edo responds by asking if

665
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: there's any specific regulations he should look at when giving

666
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: feedback to the team, and Epstein tells ITEDO mini Ponzi gambling, manipulation,

667
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: unlikely to cause trouble except for high value targets. So

668
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: we've got here is Epstein. This is finally a little

669
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: bit of I talked about. I'm not sure how much

670
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: is he conned or a con man? This is he's

671
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 1: a con man. Fully he is talking about a crypto

672
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: project he's working on with fucking Mit and being like,

673
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: this is Ponzi gambling. We're manipulating people. We're going to

674
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: steal their money, but it's unlikely to cause a trouble

675
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: unless we take too much money from a high value target. Right,

676
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: that's what he's saying here, right, Like whatever this project is.

677
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: You know what, Jeffrey Epstein would have loved. Huh all

678
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 4: the super commercials from this year.

679
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would have loved the super Bowl commercials

680
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: for this year. It was all all Epstein backed companies.

681
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 4: All crypto, all online gambling.

682
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 5: It was like his Holy Trinity.

683
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's never been more apparent that the super Bowl

684
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: is just a scam. This is the year it has

685
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: to be mask off, right, like this is all scams only,

686
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: only scams, only scams.

687
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was it was all cons. I don't think

688
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: any of them seemed very good. But also there was

689
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: the like the the part that really struck me because

690
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: the one crypto ad I noticed was coin Base, where

691
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: it was just like the fucking the Backstreet Boys.

692
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 5: Everybody was so mad along and either way, fuck you

693
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 5: coin Base and you're.

694
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: Like, it's it actually made me happy because it's it's desperation.

695
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: It's desperation. They're more then last year. Yeah, I will say, Actually, Sophie,

696
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: when you said, do you know what jeff REPSI would

697
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: have loved I thought you were forcing an ad read

698
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: right now.

699
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 4: Yes, no.

700
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 5: I wasn't, but it is that time.

701
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 4: Yeah we should God, yeah.

702
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: We're back. Boy, Jeffrey Epstein would have loved those ads.

703
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 4: Okay, Robert, I'd like to keep my health insurance, thanks

704
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 4: so much.

705
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah I need it.

706
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 5: Jeffrey doesn't because he's dead.

707
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: Yeah he sure doesn't. Anyway, we're back. So so far,

708
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 1: we've discussed Epstein's early interest in cryptocurrency and his early

709
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: advocacy for micro transactions and video games. Now it's time

710
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: to talk about where he starts to veer into the

711
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: right wing media game. He starts hitting the fever swamps,

712
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: and to discuss that, I got to introduce a new character.

713
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: Christopher Poole, better known socially as Moo Moot Moot, born

714
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: in Proper, nineteen eighty seven, somewhere near Virginia. Chris's early

715
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: life is a black hole until he joined the Something

716
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: Awful forums, you weren't online during that brief but glorious window.

717
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: There was a period of somewhat less than a decade

718
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: from the late nineties to the early to mid auts

719
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: where that was a like the place for Internet culture.

720
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: It's what invented a lot of things that are still

721
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: foundational to Internet culture. A lot of like you know,

722
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: the stuff that people hate, like how folks get mobbed

723
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: when they like do or say something dumb or fucked

724
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: up online, the way that like the Internet will just

725
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: launch mobs after random people for saying the wrong thing.

726
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: That started on something awful and in fact, in both

727
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: the good and the bad way, right like the Something

728
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: Awful there was a big like anti scientology thing where

729
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: like they were basically dedossing scientology websites at one point,

730
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: and also a bunch of random people got harassed for

731
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: being weird on the Internet. Likewise, the way that like

732
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: memes work. You know, a lot of the basics of

733
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: that were kind of ironed out online on Something Awful.

734
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: There's a way in which you can say all modern

735
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: social media is kind of downstream of something Awful. But

736
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 1: Christopher Poole wasn't just spending his time on something Awful.

737
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: He also spent a lot of time on Japanese message boards,

738
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: specifically one called two chan, right, which is going to

739
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: be relevant here in a second. So Something Awful is

740
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 1: basically a dictatorship, which we can say most modern social media.

741
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: But it's not like a company really. I mean, they

742
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: do kind of have a company at one point, but

743
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: it's not a real functional company. It's run by one asshole,

744
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: Richard Kyanka, who takes donations and people have to pay

745
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: to join the forum. And Richard kind of rules things

746
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: with an iron fist, and because of the way he

747
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: runs things, whenever there's something he doesn't like or that

748
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: endangers the site, he tends to just ban stuff. Right.

749
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: So the fact that low Tax is the single guy

750
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: legally responsible for this website leads him to a couple

751
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: of conundrums like this, right, because people want something Awful

752
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: attracts tens of thousands, eventually over one hundred thousand members.

753
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: People start doing all sorts of illegal shit on it. Right,

754
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: one of the forums is just devoted to people using

755
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: illegal drugs. And in fact, what I was a kid

756
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: on there, watched with a number of other goons as

757
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: a guy overdosed live in a threat and died. Bunch

758
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: of fucked up stuff have it on that site. People

759
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: also had illegal fire sharing on there. There used to

760
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: be a subjection of the forum where people would like

761
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: put up torrents and weares, which is like pirated video

762
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: games back in the day. Right, that's very illegal, So

763
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: that gets banned after a while because it had to be, right.

764
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: You can't have this massive, public, basic website giving people

765
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: letting people steal shit from every company in the world.

766
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: You'll get in trouble. So Low Tax bans that. And

767
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: he you know, this happens a bunch of different times, right,

768
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: and particularly it happens to a group of forum users

769
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: who create a place in the forum to share their

770
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: weird pornography. And in order to describe this this chunk

771
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: of something awful history, I'm gonna quote from Max Reid's substack.

772
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: He banned lolocon that is underage girl, HINTI More generally,

773
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: Low Tax hated the anime sub forum on Something Awful,

774
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: and the anime fans who populated the sub forum hated

775
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: him back. The sub forum was called Anime Death Tentacle

776
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: Rape Poorhouse, not because it was devoted to tentacle rape,

777
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: but because low Taxes contempt for anime nerds meant it

778
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: thought he would be funny to call the General Anime

779
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: Board that one punishment for misbehavior on the forms was

780
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: to be banned, so you could only read or post

781
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: in that sub forum. And what's really funny to me

782
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: about this is like, even from that little segment, you

783
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: can tell Low tax is not a good guy. He's

784
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: a terrible, abusive spouse, an awful man. The fact that

785
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: he bans underaged like animated porn from his website makes

786
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: him more responsible than any modern social media ceo. Like

787
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: he is lapping Elon Musk in terms of his level

788
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: of care for the public good and he's a massive

789
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: piece of shit.

790
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: Is so funny to me, he's somehow the good guy

791
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: in this local dip.

792
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I hate him.

793
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: So Lolocan gets banned, and it creates a bunch of

794
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 1: people who were on Something Awful, who are into anime,

795
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 1: who are angry at low tax and are finally ready

796
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: to find another place.

797
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: Right.

798
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: Christopher Poole is one of these people. He had posted

799
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: on adtrw right, and he sees this is an opportunity, right,

800
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: there's all these guys who are looking for a new

801
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: place to gather online. Maybe I can make a place

802
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: for them. He's a fan of two chan, so he

803
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: copies the way this Japanese imageboard works and he makes

804
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: a new website and he calls it four Chan. And

805
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: all of these guys who had been posting on Something Awful,

806
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: who were angry at Richard Kanka, angry at all of

807
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: the moderation, at the fact that there was stuff like

808
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: underage Girl anime that wasn't okay, they moved to four

809
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: Chan because nothing's not okay on that's the idea, right,

810
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: And so one of the things that happened is basically

811
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 1: everyone on Something Awful is pretty toxic at this point.

812
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: I'd include myself in that. But the most toxic people

813
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: on Something Awful go over to four Chan, where they

814
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: get to be totally anonymous. They don't have to spend

815
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: any money, and they don't have to abide by most

816
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: of the same rules So when Pool creates four chan, though,

817
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: he's got to deal with, ironically, the same question that

818
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: had confronted low Tax, right, which is, Okay, I'm the

819
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: guy whose name is attached to this web community. What

820
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: crosses the line for me? What am I not willing

821
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: to have attached to my name?

822
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: Right? Well, legally right, legally or socially right?

823
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to you have to deal with that

824
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: question when you're doing this shit. So when the site

825
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: was first created, there was a sub forum slash in,

826
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: which meant which it was meant to be, like slash

827
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: in for news. Right, this is the news part of

828
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: the chan, the image board, so for reasons that are

829
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: complex and largely irrelevant to our broader discussion, though, the

830
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: news board evolves into the transportation board over time, by

831
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: like twenty ten, people are using it to discuss transportation

832
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: issues because as much of a hub hub of like

833
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: scum and villainy as four chan is a lot of

834
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 1: it's just people discussing banal shit. Right, So it becomes clear, Okay,

835
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: we still probably need a news section of the image board,

836
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: and the one I initially created is all about fucking

837
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: buses or whatever. So Pool alects to launch a separate

838
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: novel news section called slash new Now. Ryan Broderick writes

839
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: that this was quote largely as a way to quarantine

840
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: the overwhelming amount of support on the site for Ron

841
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: Paul's two thousand and eight campaign. This is something that

842
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: happens on something awful too, But there's a lot. Basically,

843
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: anywhere people post online is nothing but Ron Paul guys

844
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: a two thousand and eight. If you let people talk

845
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: about politics, it's all the Ron Paul revolution. Yeah, because

846
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 1: Ron Paul's entire voter base at this period of time

847
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: is guys who live on the Internet and use digital

848
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: currency to buy drugs or child sex abuse imagery. Right Like,

849
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: that's that's the base. So there are free and that's creatom.

850
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: That's libertarianism in a nutshell. So the first posts to

851
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: this new segment of four chan are really problematic, right Like,

852
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: he sets this up as a way to quarantine all

853
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: the Ron Paul people, and they immediately start saying shit

854
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: that even Pool has some issues with. And so in

855
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: June of twenty eleven, Pool deletes slash New, posting anybody

856
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: who used it knows exactly why it was removed. When

857
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: I readded the board. Last year I made a note

858
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: that if it evolved into slash stormfront, I'd remove it.

859
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: It did ages ago. Now it's gone as promised. So he,

860
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: by his own discussion, removes the news board because it's

861
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: all Nazi stuff and he doesn't want that on his

862
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: site at this stage. Now, at this point, at this stage,

863
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: at this stage, it all makes sense. Right, Pool's not

864
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: a great guy, but he's not an Nazi, it seems

865
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: like at this point, right, and he.

866
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 2: Just doesn't associated openly with Nazis, right, And that is

867
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 2: unfortunately a step.

868
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's fine with Lolo Kan, but like, yeah, and

869
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: it is a step he's going to take because a

870
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: year or so later, Pool creates the poll board for

871
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: four chan, which stands for politically incorrect, And the fact

872
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: that that's what it stood for might suggest to you

873
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: that this is meant from the beginning as a hub

874
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: for right wing news and politics discussion. Right politically incorrect

875
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: is not a term that liberals are using positively, No,

876
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: it is a term that conservatives use right. So slash

877
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 1: poll almost immediately devolves into a hub for neo Nazi

878
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: and white supremacist propaganda. For years, no one but Pool

879
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: knew why he had decided to open poll after the

880
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: failure of New and its predecessor. Then the Department of

881
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: Justice published this most recent three million pages worth of

882
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: Epstein files, which it provided us with information that may

883
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: finally solve or at least bring this mystery closer to

884
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: being solved. And here's the big revelation. The day before

885
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: Pool created slash Poll, he met with Jeffrey Epstein in person.

886
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: The day before he makes poor he.

887
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 5: Meets Epstein, you're whying, what the fuck I mean?

888
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: I guess it makes sense.

889
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's hear a little more about that before

890
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: we try to puzzle this all out. I'm going to

891
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: quote from that Garbage Day newsletter again. On October twentieth,

892
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, Boris Nicolck, a venture capitalist and former advisor

893
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: to Bill Gates, sent Epstein the Wikipedia page for Christopher Poole,

894
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: writing there is a cool guy kid in all caps

895
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: and parentheses that you should meet. Four days later, Nikolak

896
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: followed up, asking Epstein, how did you like moot? He

897
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: is very sensitive, so be gentle. I liked him a lot.

898
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: I drove him home. He is very bright, Epstein replied.

899
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: Nicolk went on to write that he will be a

900
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: friend and that he is one of the greatest hackers.

901
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: Now we don't have enough Yeah, right, First off, there's

902
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: a cool guy hid.

903
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: It's really weird.

904
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's really upsetting to me. M We simply

905
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: don't have enough information to know exactly what happened here,

906
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: to know what the actual dimensions of their relationship were,

907
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: or what they even fucking talked about. We know that

908
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: Epstein and Moot met the day before Moot creates Pole.

909
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: After that, we have no clear documentation of their relationship.

910
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: We've got some emails of them trying to schedule meetings

911
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: or get togethers, and that's really it. Perhaps the conversation

912
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: they had didn't relate at all to poll. I can't

913
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: ignore the timing of this, right, Knowing that Epstein is

914
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: getting increasingly into right wing media, he's going to fund

915
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: some of it directly in the in the coming years.

916
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: Knowing that Christopher Poole removed the news chunk of four

917
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: chan because it was basically Stormfront and then creates Pole,

918
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: making it into basically the storm Front section of the

919
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: site after meeting with That's that I can't not I

920
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: can'tnot think that maybe Epstein said, you got to bring

921
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: this back.

922
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, or or like, well, never know what

923
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: a shame, or like it's not so bad, or like

924
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be great if this existed, Like it doesn't

925
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: even have to be like hard pressure.

926
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't have to be hard pressure, ye know.

927
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: Or maybe maybe Pool was having thinking about this a

928
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: lot himself, because he clearly wanted there to be something

929
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: like this and had tried to get it right, and

930
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: maybe he brought that up to Epstein and he was like,

931
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: I think you should just go for it, man, fuck it,

932
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that said Epstein is a

933
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: regular user of four chan after a semi regular user

934
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: of four chan after this point. We don't know that

935
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: he was posting, and in fact that doesn't seem very

936
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: likely based on what he used it for. But he's

937
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: on there fairly regularly, right. He sends links to four

938
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: chan to his friends. In twenty seventeen, he sent Karina Shuliek,

939
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: his girlfriend at the time, a four Chan link containing

940
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: five nights at Freddy's porn. He sent other fans links

941
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: to like Fucking Princess Bubblegum porn from Adventure Time All

942
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: sorts of shit like that. Jeffrey Epstein's trawling, like the

943
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: porn parts of four Chan, primarily for like animated porn

944
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: of animated characters, seems to be like one of his

945
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: big things. And I don't know what to do with

946
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: that information, Andrew, I don't know what to do with

947
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: the fact that fucking Jeffrey Epstein is masturbating to princess

948
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 1: bubblegum pornography. I don't know what to do with that knowledge.

949
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's that part of it is

950
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 3: like what do you do with just I mean, I

951
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: think all of his sexuality is something that is it's

952
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: all upsetting, Yeah, unknowable to I think normal, I mean

953
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: not even normal.

954
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: Now. I'm like, what, I.

955
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: Guess that's not unknowable. I'm not like because I know

956
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: a lot I've been on the end. I know a

957
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: lot of weird people. I know if there's a cartoon,

958
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: there's porn of it. Yeah, right, Like I'm aware of that.

959
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't expect Jeffrey Epstein knew what Adventure

960
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: Time was.

961
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: That's weird to me. Although it's it's just upsetting that

962
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: a man that was interested in power this much was

963
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: also such a juvenile moron. But I guess that is

964
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: what that is what it's you know, on the sanitized level,

965
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: Twitter has shown us about billionaires writ large and these

966
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 2: why they're interested in kids. Yeah.

967
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: When I brought because I will say, I was talking

968
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: to my partner about this, I was like Epstein was

969
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: sending fucking princess bubblegun porn and like other like porn

970
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: from like animated kid shows. I didn't even know he

971
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: knew what Adventure Time was. And she just looks at

972
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: me and she says, you're surprised Jeffrey Epstein knew what

973
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: teenage girls were watching in the two thousands, And I was.

974
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 5: Like, oh, yeah, you know what.

975
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 1: Actually makes mystery sold. Okay, I didn't assume that one.

976
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 1: That was me being dumb. You're right now, this doesn't

977
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: tie into the broader themes of these episodes at all, Andrew.

978
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: But I have to tell you something because it's in

979
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: my head now and now it's going to be in

980
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: everyone else's head, because god damn it, I'm not going

981
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: to deal with this alone. On Thursday, July fourth of

982
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, while the rest of the country was setting

983
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: up fireworks and day drinking joy Edo sent an email

984
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein that, best as we can tell, was

985
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: an appendix to an in person conversation they'd had a

986
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: few days or hours earlier, right that, we're talking about

987
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: something over the phone or in person, and then Itto

988
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: sends him an email about this thing he'd talk to

989
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: him about. Right, you know, we've all done this, right sure?

990
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: In this case, the email that Edo sends Epstein is

991
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: just the Wikipedia page for daki makura or Japanese body

992
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: pillows that are printed with art depicting an anime wife

993
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: or waifu. And he appends a picture of one such

994
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 1: pillow to the email, which you will all be seeing

995
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: now if you're watching the video version of the show.

996
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: If not, it's a pillow with an egged anime girl

997
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: on it. Why did Jeffrey Epstein need to read the

998
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page for anime body pillows? What was the conversation

999
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: that inspired this? We will never know, and none of

1000
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: this is really relevant to the main thesis of these episodes.

1001
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: But I felt like, again, I just you have to

1002
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: know this now, like you can't not. Jeffrey Epstein knew

1003
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,919
Speaker 1: what Japanese body pillows were. That's just part of life

1004
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: for everyone.

1005
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 2: Now, Like the head of the goddamn MIT Media lab

1006
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: was sending body pillow shit to a pedophile, which is like,

1007
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 2: what the fuck is happening?

1008
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like Ito resigned, he should have been fired.

1009
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: And I mean in like from a cannon, like out

1010
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: of a cannon into the sea. That should be a crime.

1011
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: We just need to make that a sex crime. Letting

1012
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein know about Japanese body pillows is something you

1013
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: should have to register as a sex offender for doing.

1014
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: It's just one of those things where it's like it

1015
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 2: is obviously circumstantial evidence, but you could actually walk down

1016
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 2: every path that leads to that, and it is impossible

1017
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: to find one that doesn't involve a crime. Yeah, exactly.

1018
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: There's no way you get to that point having not

1019
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 1: committed sex crimes. It's simply impossible. Yeah, speaking of crimes

1020
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,919
Speaker 1: against humanity. What Oh sorry, Sophie, I cut you off.

1021
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: I was just doing an ad pivot.

1022
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just gonna say that that's like at

1023
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 4: least tier two sex offender ship, at least tier two,

1024
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 4: if not tier three.

1025
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1026
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an elite pedophile. You got to give him that.

1027
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: MM hmm.

1028
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, probably shouldn't go to ads right after seeing

1029
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: Elite Pedophile.

1030
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 4: But what else are we supposed to do with Jeffrey

1031
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 4: Epstein Epstein Files episodes.

1032
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm getting.

1033
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 5: Frown lines from these episodes.

1034
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: We're back, you know, We're uh, we're steaming. We're epsteining.

1035
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: We're steining steining. You guys like steaening a little more? Okay,

1036
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: read the script. So not long after four Chan introduced

1037
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: the poll Board, which again stood for politically incorrect, Epstein's

1038
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: friend Steve Bannon took over the far at the far

1039
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: right news website Breitbart dot com. You like, within a

1040
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: year of each other that Bannon takes over at Breit

1041
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: Barlin and Epstein is again buddies with Bannon. This has

1042
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: been back in twenty twelve, and I hate that we

1043
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: kept to shift in time so much in these episodes,

1044
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: but it's kind of impossible to cover all the stuff

1045
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: and not do it. So in twenty twelve, four Chan's

1046
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: poll board launches, and we know Epstein spends time on

1047
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: four Chan because he sends links to his friends. Steve

1048
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: Bannon takes over Breitbart and he starts turning it into

1049
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: the machine that's going to drive gamer Gate, which arises

1050
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: from four chan into the mainstream news in twenty fourteen.

1051
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: These things happened very close to each other. Bannon and

1052
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: Epstein were socially adjacent over the years, for years before

1053
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: we have evidences of them corresponding. Right officially, if you

1054
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: are reading about this officially, I believe it's twenty seventeen.

1055
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: That is the early point we know Bannon and Epstein

1056
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: were connected directly, and it was via Michael Wolf, or

1057
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: at least that's one of the sources I read said

1058
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: that there's no way that that was the case. For

1059
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: one thing, Bannon is working with Brock Pierce, who we

1060
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: started these episodes with right much earlier than that. And

1061
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: Epstein is friends with brock Pierce during this period of time,

1062
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: right from twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen. Again, Wolf is

1063
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: kind of our best documentation of like when they started

1064
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: emailing each other. But even if and we don't have

1065
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: enough of the emails to know if there are earlier

1066
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: emails between Bannon and Epstein, but we know they were

1067
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: in touch earlier than that, right, Like we just don't

1068
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: know exactly like when this all happened. I don't know

1069
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: when they were first communicating directly, but I know that

1070
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 1: In May twenty sixteen, Epstein emailed Kathy Rumler, who is

1071
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: the White House counsel to President Barack Obama, or at

1072
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: least who was the White House council to President Barack

1073
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: Obama and a good friend of Jeffrey Epstein's Kathy and

1074
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: Epstein email obviously. And what's weird about this is that

1075
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: Kathy's obviously a Democrat, right, Like she's working for Barack Obama.

1076
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: She's not fans of Steve Bannon and a lot of

1077
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: the people that Epstein keeps in his social orbit. On

1078
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: May eighth, Epstein sent her an email that was just

1079
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: a link to a Breitbart article about how Trump was

1080
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: using the same language to attack Hillary that the women

1081
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: who have accused Bill Clinton of rape used to describe Hillary.

1082
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: Right.

1083
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: The article was saying, people are angry at Trump for

1084
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: being mean to Hillary, but he's just mirroring the language

1085
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: that Bill's victims used to describe how mean Hillary was

1086
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: to them, Right, that's the article, you know. And Epstein

1087
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: sends this to Kathy Rimmler, who's a Democrat working for Obama,

1088
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: and that's so that's really weird right her him sending

1089
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: her a Breitbart link, and Kathy seems confused by this too.

1090
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: She responds, what's more disturbing is that you are reading Breitbart.

1091
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: Like, what's more.

1092
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: Disturbing to anything the article is that you're reading Breitbart

1093
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: and this I think this is an important exchange because

1094
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: it suggests a few things. For one, By twenty sixteen,

1095
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: Epstein is pretty new to reading and sharing Breitbart articles.

1096
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: And I think think he's pretty new because he found

1097
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: himself surprisingly interested in the content, and so it just

1098
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 1: kind of becomes an increasingly large part of his media diet.

1099
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: And I don't think he's thinking about how extreme it

1100
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: is or how weird other people think it is that

1101
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: he's reading Breitbart articles because he sends it casually to Kathy.

1102
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: The two are good friends in their emailing constantly, and

1103
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't think twice about sending her a Breitbart article

1104
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: until she's like, what the fuck? Man, that's really weird.

1105
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: That says to me that Epstein. However, much of this

1106
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: is him being like a master manipulator. Epstein's also organically

1107
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: falling down a right wing rabbit hole. Right that really

1108
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: seems like what this is suggesting to me that he

1109
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,760
Speaker 1: is legitimately finding himself interested in this stuff, in addition

1110
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: to whatever kind of grievances he has that are leading

1111
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: him to support people like Bannon, to support this political

1112
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: move that's going to culminate in the Trump campaign. There's

1113
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: other evidence of this a twenty fourteen email from a

1114
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: redacted sender who had just returned and revisit to Epstein Island.

1115
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: The anonymous center of this email who signed the email

1116
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: just m thanked Epstein and offered lots of hugs and

1117
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: then appended this PostScript to the email. I researched some

1118
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: movie we can watch when you are back. Have you

1119
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: ever heard of Alexander Dugan, one of Putin's advisors, If not,

1120
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: reading about him and his views might be interesting and

1121
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: perhaps quite useful. And that's really interesting to me that

1122
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: people in his circle are trying to push him. Maybe

1123
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: people who are connected to the Russian government are trying

1124
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: to push him to read Alexander Dugan. Dugan is an

1125
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: influential right wing philosopher and political theorist whose work deals

1126
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: heavily with the concept of a multipolar world, aka one

1127
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: in which the US has lost its status as a superpower.

1128
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: And the world is divided between competing blocks of hegemonic powers.

1129
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley fascists often find a lot that they like

1130
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: in Dugan because their own goal is to see the

1131
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: collapse of the US as a nation state, which will

1132
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: allow CEO kings like Peter Thield to govern city states

1133
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: and regions without oversight. There's no other mention of Dugan

1134
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: in the archives yet, but as I noted before, Epstein

1135
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: has a number of Russian connections, and this is all

1136
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: just kind of part of this picture we're getting of

1137
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: Epstein twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen. He's sending bright Bart

1138
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: articles to his friends. He's talking about alexandes. People are

1139
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: suggesting he reads Alexander Dugan, and he's going to increasingly

1140
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: start putting his money towards supporting right wing content. In

1141
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, Jeffrey Epstein donates twenty five thousand dollars to

1142
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: the YouTube channel of Juan Jean Francois Geriapee, a French

1143
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: white nationalist influencer, who announced the donation on his channel

1144
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: during an episode with Richard Spencer. So Gariape and Richard

1145
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: Spencer are bragging that Jeffrey Epstein donated to support his

1146
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: white supremacist YouTube channel in two thy fifteen, part right,

1147
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean for an idea, Yeah, of the kind of

1148
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: shit Garyapee, saying he calls for a white ethno state

1149
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: and advocates that men should own their wives. This is

1150
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: interesting about Garyapee because his own wife disappeared in twenty

1151
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: twenty three. Yeah, she fell off the face of the

1152
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: earth at twenty twenty three. He claims he dropped her

1153
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: off to go camping in the middle of the woods

1154
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: because she was a big fan of off grid living

1155
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: and had been planning the trip for a while. Critics

1156
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: note that he deep cleaned their whole home right before

1157
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: she allegedly left on this trip. The Royal Canadian Mounted

1158
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: Police were at one point seeking tips from the public

1159
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: to help find her, but they have deleted that website

1160
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: and I don't know what her status is. This segment

1161
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: from a Daily Beast article on the matter does give

1162
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: you a very good idea of who Gary Aapee is, though,

1163
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: during a contentious child custody battle in the US, and

1164
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: now ex wife accused Gariyapee of threatening to take their

1165
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: child to Canada. During the custody case, an undergraduate Duke

1166
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: University student testify that Garyapee had conducted an inappropriate sexual

1167
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: relationship with her when he was employed as a researcher

1168
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: at the school and she was working as his research assistant.

1169
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: The student alleged emotional abuse by Garyapee. Gary p had

1170
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: previously told The Daily Beasts that the relationship was consensual.

1171
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: During that custody case, which he lost, Gary ape also

1172
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: became embroiled in a guardianship battle over a nineteen year

1173
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: old who he described as his Beyonce. The teenager had

1174
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: autism and had been assessed by a counselor as having

1175
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: the social and mental maturity of a ten to eleven

1176
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: year old child.

1177
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: Cool guy, horrific.

1178
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: This is who Epstein. He gives him twenty five thousand dollars.

1179
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 5: And he's just out here like living, right, He's not.

1180
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: Still He's still He's still around as far as I'm aware.

1181
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also like like thanks for the thanks for

1182
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: the donation from Jeffrey E. Thanks, thanks for the twenty

1183
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: five thousand coins all whatever. Yeah, it's just like, I mean,

1184
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 2: I like there is a certain point where you're like, yeah,

1185
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 2: all these right wing people are fucking awful. You know,

1186
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: certainly pedophile supporting whatever. Oh there's no hypocrites, but it

1187
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: is like kind of fascinating each time they have no shame.

1188
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's not a slam dunk, I think,

1189
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: but it is just like, yeah, yeah, these people are

1190
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: exactly this.

1191
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's it's fucking the This is the side

1192
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: of Jeffrey we didn't get until there was the release,

1193
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: the side where he's he's not just even you know,

1194
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: there was maybe some evidence he was flirting certainly with

1195
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: some right wing ideas over the years. He's putting a

1196
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: lot of money. We know about this twenty five thousand

1197
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: dollars donation. We don't know about the others. We don't

1198
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: know where else he's sending money. We know he's sending

1199
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: links to like the fucking Right Stuff, which is a

1200
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: super fucking fascist podcast, like to their website, to like

1201
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: a phrase while he's talking about like race signs. In fact,

1202
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: I want to quote Aried Ross wrote a really good

1203
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: column on his Medium page about some of Jeffrey's right

1204
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: wing connections that summarizes like what happens after this twenty

1205
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars donation because he just gets increasingly pilled

1206
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: after this point. The following year, he exchanged emails with

1207
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: tech leader Joshua Bach revealing racist sentiments. By this time,

1208
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: he was supporting the changing politics of the Silicon Valley

1209
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: right wing, including what the Byline Times calls biological hierarchy,

1210
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: racial destiny, gender determinism, genetic optimization, population culling, fascism as efficiency.

1211
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: We could call this something like a counter revolutionary movement,

1212
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, using the strategies and ideas of the revolutionary

1213
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: movement against it. So to put all of this together

1214
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: for you. After getting out of jail in twenty ten

1215
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: to about twenty sixteen, Jeffrey Epstein gets deeply involved in

1216
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole, because he sees it

1217
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: as a way to reinvent the financial system and make

1218
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: a new form of money decoupled from democratic Western governance.

1219
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: He'd become a believer in biological and racial hierarchy and

1220
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: had started funding fascist thinkers who supported using the tactics

1221
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: of left rowing revolutionary movements to bring down democratic governments.

1222
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: All this comes to a head in twenty sixteen after Brexit,

1223
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: in a series of celebratory emails between Peter tel and

1224
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. So right after Brexit, Epstein sends an email

1225
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: to Peter Teal June twenty six, twenty sixteen, at three

1226
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: seventeen am and says, Brexit just the beginning. Teal responds

1227
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 1: a couple hours later by asking of what, and Epstein responds,

1228
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: returned to tribalism, counter to globalization, amazing new alliances. You

1229
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high,

1230
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: and as I said in your office, finding things on

1231
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: their way to collapse was much easier than finding the

1232
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: next bargain. So Epstein, by this point what he's talking

1233
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: with Teal about is you and I have been discussing

1234
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: the fact that, like, if we can return to tribalism,

1235
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: destroy globalization, destroy the order that exists, destroy this idea

1236
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: of liberal democracy, then we can buy all of the

1237
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: ass the same way these Russian oligarchs did after the

1238
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: Soviet Union collapse. We can buy every public asset that

1239
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: exists in a fire sale. We can own everything. Right,

1240
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: finding things on their way to collapse is way is

1241
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: the best bargain that exists, and I think that ties

1242
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: all of this together, the right wing politics, the crypto,

1243
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: the fucking getting kids addicted to loop boxes and gambling

1244
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: and stuff. All of these interests that Jeffrey has in

1245
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: these years are all tied to this destruction of the

1246
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: global order, which I think to some extent he saw

1247
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: us betraying him. Right. He was a system guy. He

1248
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: was friends with presidents and kings and other members of royalty.

1249
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: And then he gets convicted of sex crimes and that

1250
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: only happened because of these damn women. Because a democracy,

1251
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: they got the vote, now, you know. And so he

1252
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: and Teal and all these guys like he turns in

1253
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: with them, and he's not manipulating Peter Teel. He's not

1254
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: the guy who made Teal start thinking about anti democratic bullshit.

1255
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: But he gets on board that fairly early, and he

1256
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: uses his newfound interest in this stuff to work towards

1257
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: the same ends that people like Peter Teel are working towards.

1258
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: And he has a lot of influence, and so he

1259
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: has a lot of influence on how this whole right

1260
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: wing ecosystem and this whole right wing populist movement that's

1261
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: going to increasingly be a factor and everyone's lives develops.

1262
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: And that's where we are at the end of Part three.

1263
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 2: Jesus Chris good great, I love it. I mean to me,

1264
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 2: the overarching thing that's coalescing is like, why were the

1265
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: Why was all the right wing establishments so confident that

1266
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: like releasing the Epstein files was some kind of slam dunk,

1267
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: Like it's so weird you're in the files so much

1268
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 2: right wing everything.

1269
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:30,959
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeps, oh yep, I've been pain. Life is good.

1270
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 5: I guess we should do part four.

1271
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, why not?

1272
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 5: Why not?

1273
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:46,439
Speaker 4: All right, We'll be back Thursday, Pain, Yeah, bye bye.

1274
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 6: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1275
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 6: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1276
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 6: Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1277
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1278
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 4: All video episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming

1279
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 4: on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Kit remind me

1280
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 4: of Netflix. You don't miss an episode. For clips in

1281
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 4: our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube

1282
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 4: channel YouTube dot com slash at.

1283
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 6: Behind the Bastards. We love about forty percent of you,

1284
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 6: statistically speaking,