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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe

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Speaker 1: Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: we got a lot going on. We are down to

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Speaker 1: the last week of the regular season. How you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing wonderfully.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I've been playing a lot, as like you just

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Speaker 3: did what we're talking about, So playing a lot. The

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Speaker 3: weather's been fabulous around here. My tomatoes are unbelievable. I

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Speaker 3: just keep getting more and more. Tomatoes. Are gonna have

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Speaker 3: a bunch for the rest of this month too, So

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Speaker 3: it's been kind of fun.

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Speaker 1: Oh, this is an awesome time of year. We have

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Speaker 1: so much to get into with these races wrapping up,

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Speaker 1: managers getting fired, awards handed out. But I want to

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Speaker 1: start with a story Joe. Going back to nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: this is when Major League Baseball celebrated one hundred years

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Speaker 1: of professional baseball. So they decided to have the Baseball

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Speaker 1: Writers vote on the all time Baseball team, and part

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Speaker 1: of that vote was for the writers to choose what

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Speaker 1: they called the greatest living player, and they announced the

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Speaker 1: result at the All Star Game that year Washington. They

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Speaker 1: had the astronaut Frank Borman there. It was such a

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Speaker 1: big event. And the greatest living player voted in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine was Joe d Joe DiMaggio, and believe me,

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Speaker 1: that got a lot of attention, to the point where really,

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Speaker 1: for the rest of his life Joe Demagio was known

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Speaker 1: as the greatest living player. It was like he was

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Speaker 1: knighted over in Great Britain. He enjoyed the title. It

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Speaker 1: was an unofficial poll obviously. At the time. Willie Mays

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine was on his way to his

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Speaker 1: six hundredth home run. He also had more than three

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Speaker 1: hundred stolen bases. For me, I'd say Willie Mays was

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Speaker 1: the better player over Joe Demagio. But that being said,

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Speaker 1: there was something unofficial and even slightly official about Demaggio

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Speaker 1: earning that title greatest living player. And I got to

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Speaker 1: thinking now that Willy unofficially to me, he was the

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Speaker 1: greatest living player. You know, Joe diedeen ninety nine and

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Speaker 1: Willy this year twenty twenty four. Who is the greatest

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Speaker 1: living player? And for me, Joe, I think the greatest

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Speaker 1: living player is an active player, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: this has happened since nineteen twenty when Babe Ruth was

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing going in baseball set the all time

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Speaker 1: home record several times over. And of course I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about shoey Otani. Listen, you can give me some great

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Speaker 1: numbers on people like Ricky Henderson, Greg Maddox, Ken Griffy Junior.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not going to go to Bonds and Clemens

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Speaker 1: because of obvious reasons in their ped associations. But how

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Speaker 1: lucky are we that? For me, the greatest living player

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Speaker 1: today is just entering his prime. We're not looking back

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Speaker 1: historically and rewarding someone like Joe Day in nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 1: We're saying the greatest living player and only walks among us,

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Speaker 1: he plays among us. You want to take a counter

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Speaker 1: argument to that, Joe, that joey Otani is the greatest

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Speaker 1: living player.

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Speaker 2: As you were building all that up, he was my

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Speaker 2: first thought.

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Speaker 3: And then you also covered because I saw Barry Bonds

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Speaker 3: pre all that stuff and I wish he had not

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Speaker 3: done that gave and you could make a case for

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Speaker 3: an Alex Rodriguez staying kind of pure. Also, these guys

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Speaker 3: are were are that good? Ken Griffy Jr. We've seen

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Speaker 3: a lot over the last about thirty forty years ourselves.

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Speaker 3: I do agree that never having seen Damajo in person

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Speaker 3: and only briefly seeing Mays, I would imagine May's Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I would agree with you. I would have chosen Mays

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Speaker 3: over Demajo even seeing him limit on a limited basis,

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Speaker 3: and Demago not at all except for the lore in

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Speaker 3: the fifty six game hitting streak and all the other

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Speaker 3: things in the Championships.

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Speaker 2: I guess maybe that played into it a bit.

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Speaker 3: But in today's world, based on everything I've been able

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Speaker 3: to observe and recognize, and like you just said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're watching him right now show, and then for me

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Speaker 3: specific as an individual, having had a chance to manage

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Speaker 3: him and be part of a daily conversation with him, Wow,

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Speaker 3: pretty incredible. Because there's a lot of people that compare

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Speaker 3: him against obviously, and a lot of larger than life

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Speaker 3: figures and legends and all that kind of stuff. But

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Speaker 3: we're saying the guy that's playing right now, and I'll

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Speaker 3: say another thing, trout like trot Michael not getting injured

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Speaker 3: as often as he has. I bet you he'd be

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Speaker 3: in this conversation easily right now too. Based on all

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Speaker 3: the things he accomplished up until the point he was

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Speaker 3: so young, and he's still so young. All the things

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Speaker 3: that he did at a really young age was that

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Speaker 3: he's just dominated the game. And these guys were teammates

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Speaker 3: last year. So wow, it's an interesting common conversation. You know,

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Speaker 3: people are even gonna get here from the Yankee fans

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Speaker 3: about Aaron Judge. So, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: based on the ability to do two things at Hall

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Speaker 3: of Fame caliber level and the year that he's having

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Speaker 3: this year, I cannot disagree with you about show a.

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Speaker 1: So this is my line of succession here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: going back to nineteen hundred, you probably say you can

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Speaker 1: pick either Honus Wagner or a bit later, Ty Cobb

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Speaker 1: is the greatest living player. Then, as I said, Babe, Ruth,

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Speaker 1: you know, he says the all time home run record

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Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen, I think it was twenty nine home runs,

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Speaker 1: and people were like, wow, that's about like the far

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Speaker 1: as the human limit as possible. The next year he

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Speaker 1: goes fifty four, and then the next year after that

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Speaker 1: he's fifty nine. Six years later he's got sixty. So

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Speaker 1: there's no question it's Ruth up until his death in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight. Then you have to go ty Cobb,

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Speaker 1: and Ty Cobb passed away in nineteen sixty one, So

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Speaker 1: then you get into this DiMaggio May's argument. It's probably

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Speaker 1: Demaggio at sixty one, and you know, probably Mays later on.

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Speaker 1: I like you would go with Maze over Demaggio. But

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Speaker 1: then you have Willie passing away this year, and the

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Speaker 1: argument then is who is the heir to Willie? Mayses

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Speaker 1: is the greatest living player, And I truly believe Joe

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Speaker 1: and I'm not calling, you know, show Hey the greatest

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Speaker 1: ever yet, but in terms of the ability to play

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Speaker 1: this game of baseball, the skill set, the talent, I

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Speaker 1: think he's the most talented player to ever play this

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Speaker 1: game of baseball. I really do. You're talking about someone who,

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Speaker 1: now other than this year, rehabing the elbow almost on

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Speaker 1: an annual basis for the three previous seasons, and I

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Speaker 1: think you'll see it next year, will compete for a

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Speaker 1: Cy Young and the home run title. The same person

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Speaker 1: that is just crazy and as great as Willy was

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Speaker 1: in the center field. The fact that shoey Otani can

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Speaker 1: pitch at an elite level and do something off defensively

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Speaker 1: that we've never seen before in the game. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to fifty to fifty year this year. That's one of one.

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Speaker 1: That's why I think he's the most talented player to

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Speaker 1: ever play this game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and part of this that it's not going to

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Speaker 3: go into the evaluation process is you mentioned the skill.

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Speaker 3: He's so innately a great baseball player when you're with him,

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Speaker 3: his instincts for the game, what he sees during the

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Speaker 3: course of the game, his ability to make adjustments almost

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Speaker 3: on the fly based on what he's seeing as a pitcher,

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Speaker 3: does it in the batter's box too. He just has

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Speaker 3: this other mental level of approaching our game that he

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Speaker 3: trusts to, you know, like some people really you know,

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Speaker 3: we feel like we see things and know things and

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Speaker 3: understand things. But you've got to trust in yourself also,

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Speaker 3: because the big part is never be worried or afraid

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Speaker 3: of making a mistake. He doesn't do that, I think

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Speaker 3: to be really great. Okay, I have to understand or

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Speaker 3: except that. Yeah, it's not going to always be perfect.

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Speaker 3: It's not always going to be an oil painting, but

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Speaker 3: you're always going to try to make at that and

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Speaker 3: if it doesn't work out. I'll just drop it, throw

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Speaker 3: it in the nearest trash can, and come back out

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Speaker 3: tomorrow and make it good, because I can. When you're

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Speaker 3: like that good, you have so much confidence in how

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Speaker 3: your body moves that you don't really have to overanalyze

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Speaker 3: that and then permit you then just to like follow

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Speaker 3: what you're seeing and thinking out thinking the other side.

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Speaker 3: O't competing mentally the other side. These are the things

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Speaker 3: that he does that really truly make him great. These

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Speaker 3: obviously I've thought about these things in the past because

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Speaker 3: I know my own meager abilities. I mean, there's even

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Speaker 3: in the game of golf that the ability to repeat

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Speaker 3: your swing consistently is. It's like, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: an a ball player, even in rookie ball. On a

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Speaker 3: daily basis, You're just you're unable to make your body

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Speaker 3: move in a certain way consistently. And that's just maybe

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Speaker 3: it's a poor example, but just as an example where

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Speaker 3: a major league pitcher and a hitter like him, his

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Speaker 3: body has to move in a certain way all the

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Speaker 3: time to be that good, and you have to be

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Speaker 3: able to do that without really having to think about it.

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Speaker 3: You're just have this fluidity about you and free toom

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Speaker 3: of not even the thought, freedom of like the vision

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Speaker 3: of this moment to the next moment, to the next

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Speaker 3: moment to the next moment. And you're living in the

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Speaker 3: present tense constantly to be this great, so beyond everything

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Speaker 3: you've been talking about, And I do agree. I believe

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Speaker 3: this is part of him that really sets him apart.

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Speaker 3: And how's that nurtured that I'd be curious, I mean

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Speaker 3: beyond you know what he did as a kid. Did

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Speaker 3: he read books? Did he did he focus on things

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Speaker 3: that he was into visualization?

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Speaker 2: Did he have some.

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Speaker 3: Mentors that really pushed him in this direction? Because all

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Speaker 3: of these factors are a big part of him being

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Speaker 3: as great as he is. And we're saying we just

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Speaker 3: see it and it looks simple, but believe it's not simple.

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Speaker 3: To be that good every day is very difficult.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I love about show Hey and

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Speaker 1: the stories growing up is his dad was one of

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Speaker 1: his coaches around the little league level at least you know, ten, eleven,

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Speaker 1: twelve years, and every day his dad would write something

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Speaker 1: down in a note book about what show Hey did

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Speaker 1: that day. It could be a compliment, it could be

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Speaker 1: an observation about something that needed improvement. Then he would

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Speaker 1: hand the notebook to show Hey, and then it was

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Speaker 1: show Hay's turn to write something in that notebook about

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Speaker 1: the way he felt about his game, and then it

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Speaker 1: go back to his dad. This went on for years.

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Speaker 1: They passed the notebook back and forth with their own

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Speaker 1: observations written down, and it was like father and son

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Speaker 1: playing a game of catch, but doing it with the

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Speaker 1: written word. And Joe, you know how powerful the written

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Speaker 1: word is. When you say something, it goes into the ether,

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Speaker 1: it disappears. When you take the time to write something down,

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Speaker 1: it retains in your memory bank a lot firmer than

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Speaker 1: just words spoken orally. And I think this that the

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Speaker 1: sharing of the introspection, the ability to look back on

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Speaker 1: a day's work and say what you liked or needed

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Speaker 1: improvement on a father son basis. I always find that

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Speaker 1: so powerful, and that show he was really an old

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Speaker 1: soul even at that time. For a kid to be

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Speaker 1: disciplined in that way and to share that those kind

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Speaker 1: of observations with his father, is it just kind of

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a window on the man that

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Speaker 1: he has become.

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Speaker 3: Well, I didn't know that, And how powerful. What a

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Speaker 3: great gift to gift to any father and son, or

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Speaker 3: any father daughter or mother daughter mother's son. I mean

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Speaker 3: that that's powerful. God, I wish I had done that.

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Speaker 3: What a wonderful idea. It takes a like you're saying,

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Speaker 3: a lot of self discipline, and you're right when you're

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Speaker 3: able to think it and then write it down and

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Speaker 3: then pass it along. Man, it does it stands the

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Speaker 3: test of time. It's something you could reference at any

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Speaker 3: particular moment. You know, you do it.

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Speaker 2: I do it.

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Speaker 3: I got a book right here for today, Wayne Dyers.

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Speaker 3: You'll see it and you'll believe it. Book that I

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Speaker 3: highlighted like crazy and still think about. I'm going through

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Speaker 3: the book today and I'm realizing, Wow, a lot of

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Speaker 3: the things that I'll just bring up casually in a

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Speaker 3: conversation was from this book that even realized was that

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Speaker 3: heavily influential on me. But what a great teaching to him.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that should really be talked about more often.

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Speaker 3: I mean, as a young father with your children and

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Speaker 3: again or mother or both, to have that kind of

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Speaker 3: discipline and gift to gift to your kids, it's pretty.

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Speaker 2: It's very powerful.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, when you were talking about sho Hayes basically

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Speaker 1: combining in physical abilities with just unbelievable baseball IQ, which

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Speaker 1: really stems from an unbelievable love for the game. You know,

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Speaker 1: he wants to know every angle, every permutation, every little

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Speaker 1: detail of this game and try to master it. I

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Speaker 1: think about his base running this year, show he is

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Speaker 1: not the fastest guy in the world. There are one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty some odd players who are faster than

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Speaker 1: Shoe hee Otani in the major leagues, but there's nobody

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Speaker 1: who steals bases like him. He's fifty five out of

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Speaker 1: fifty nine. He's gone next level this year. I think

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Speaker 1: do in part because he's not pitching and he can

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Speaker 1: devote a little more time and energy into studying the

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Speaker 1: running game and tells on pitchers and having his moments

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Speaker 1: where he knows I can go get that bag, taking

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Speaker 1: nothing away from him. With the new rules that I

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Speaker 1: know encourage stolen bases, and the stolen based success rate

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Speaker 1: has increased the last couple of years with the new rules.

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Speaker 1: There's nobody else in baseball with these rules who are

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Speaker 1: stealing bases like Shoeyotani. So I look at a guy

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Speaker 1: who's always sliding feet first and that maybe partly because

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Speaker 1: he wants to protect the pitching hand, but he never

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Speaker 1: jumps off the bag. I mean, it is textbook lou

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Speaker 1: Brock type stealing bases with that feet first slide. He

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Speaker 1: almost never gets thrown out. He hasn't been thrown out

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Speaker 1: in his last thirty five stolen base attempts. And it's

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Speaker 1: just a beautiful thing to behold to watch this guy

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Speaker 1: at probably two hundred and thirty five pounds stealing bases

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Speaker 1: and nobody can throw him out. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: the same guy who's stealing these bases at a record

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Speaker 1: rate of success. Get this, he has more home runs

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Speaker 1: that have traveled four hundred and fifty feet then not

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Speaker 1: just every player, every team in baseball except the Colorado

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Speaker 1: Rockies who play at altitude. Think about that. He has

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Speaker 1: stolen fifty plus bases and he has hit more absolute

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Speaker 1: bomb home runs than every team but the Rockies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I see the replays of his home

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Speaker 3: run swing, and does two things stand out to me?

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Speaker 3: How he stays behind the ball so well and it's

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Speaker 3: kind of effortless, and the finish is spectacular to a swing,

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Speaker 3: of course, like you said, two thirty five strong whatever,

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Speaker 3: But his ability to stay behind the baseball with whatever

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Speaker 3: left field or dead center pulling it is incredible and

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Speaker 3: a big part of why you're seeing the ball go

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Speaker 3: as far as it does because he stays behind it

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Speaker 3: so well. Back to the base dealing again, I would

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Speaker 3: I watch some of the replays and if you get

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Speaker 3: a chance, his first step. I love his first step.

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Speaker 3: There's no wasted energy when you're teaching how to get

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Speaker 3: that first move. Going to me, he does it perfectly.

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Speaker 3: The way the kind of the right foot comes up

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Speaker 3: and down, it's almost in the same place, and by

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Speaker 3: the time his left foot crosses over, he's already.

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Speaker 2: In perfect running position.

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Speaker 3: Again, I don't know this, but I would imagine he

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Speaker 3: studied this, he talked about it or spoke with somebody

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Speaker 3: about it, and away from the maddening crowd, he works

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Speaker 3: on this because it's not something you.

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Speaker 2: See him do before the game.

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Speaker 3: Maybe like as he's sprinting in the outfield, he might

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Speaker 3: work on that first step, first step, first step, that move,

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Speaker 3: and the other thing studying pictures, knowing when they're coming over.

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Speaker 3: There's an art for him to that also, And you're right,

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Speaker 3: it's a little bit more predictable now because of the rules. However,

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Speaker 3: you still when you do go, you still have to

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Speaker 3: read it right. And he's got to have something. And

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Speaker 3: again this is a part of I'm betting what he's

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Speaker 3: doing right now. He study pictures moves to know when

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Speaker 3: he can get that first movement, that first step, all

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Speaker 3: within his abilities parameters.

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Speaker 2: This is what the guy does. So watch when he hits.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying this for anybody listening right now, Watch

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Speaker 3: how well he stays behind the baseball number two. If

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Speaker 3: you see a replay when he's running, really watch what

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Speaker 3: he does with that right foot in his first step.

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Speaker 2: It's perfect.

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Speaker 1: So fifty to fifty has been amazing and it's been

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Speaker 1: cool to see that other people in other sports, other

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Speaker 1: big stars, Lebron James, Patrick Mahomes. I mean, everybody is

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Speaker 1: in appreciation of Shoeyotoni. Yes, there's awe about the actual

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Speaker 1: statistical achievement, but I think people as much are tapping

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Speaker 1: into the amility of this guy and almost the childlike

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Speaker 1: joy in which he plays the game. And he's doing

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Speaker 1: it now, by the way, for the first time for

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Speaker 1: a team that's going to the postseason. This is the

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Speaker 1: first time Shoeotoni has played on a winning team. This

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Speaker 1: is the first time he has played at least in

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Speaker 1: the major leagues winning type games, meaningful games in September.

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Speaker 1: And you know what he's done in his first meaningful September.

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Speaker 1: He's the first player in the history of the game

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Speaker 1: to have nine home runs in twelve stolen bases in September,

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Speaker 1: and he's hitting over three point fifty. You think this

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Speaker 1: guy doesn't like the big moments, the spotlight. I mean, Joe,

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Speaker 1: here's the scary thought. As great as fifty to fifty is.

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Speaker 1: This may be like Ruth hitting twenty nine home runs.

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Speaker 1: This may be only the beginning. We may be looking

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Speaker 1: at an era here with shoe Otani where he just

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Speaker 1: continues to amaze us and does things that we did

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Speaker 1: not think are possible. I say that because we forget

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Speaker 1: how great he is as a pitcher, and he's doing

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Speaker 1: it now in a Dodger organization that no offense to

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Speaker 1: the Angels. The Dodgers have more resources than a team

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Speaker 1: in baseball in terms of staffing and analytics and what

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Speaker 1: they do with just support people for the players. You

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Speaker 1: can't tell me that shoe Atani is not going to

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Speaker 1: go next level pitching next year as well. So I think,

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Speaker 1: buckle up, man, this is as great as fifty to

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Speaker 1: fifty is. This guy's just getting into his prime years.

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Speaker 2: Speaks to team.

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Speaker 3: Also, just going back over, you talked about places with

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Speaker 3: the Angels for so many years and unable to get

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Speaker 3: to the dance, and then he goes to a organization

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Speaker 3: that has, you know, a lot more going on for

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Speaker 3: itself right now. And so this is an individual we

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Speaker 3: just talked maybe that he is possibly the greatest living

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Speaker 3: player we think he is, but it still speaks the team.

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Speaker 3: In regards to winning, you have to have all these

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Speaker 3: different parts working properly and have all these supporting cast

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Speaker 3: This can't just be about one guy in this game,

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Speaker 3: and in any game.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's a quarterback driven NFL.

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Speaker 3: You have to have that guy under center, but you

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Speaker 3: still have to have a pretty good team around him,

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Speaker 3: an offensive line otherwise.

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Speaker 2: This guy is going to be on his back all

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 3: A guy like show Hayes is for his wonderful and

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Speaker 3: graded insightful in a baseball sense that he is still

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Speaker 3: speaks the team and I think that's the That's one

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Speaker 3: thing I get out of all this and then the

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Speaker 3: next point about this this month that he's having I

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00:19:10,238 --> 00:19:12,678
Speaker 3: still think there the seminal moment for me for him

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Speaker 3: was a WBC when he threw that last pitch, struck

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Speaker 3: out Mike Trout and the pure joy that he experienced

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Speaker 3: in that moment, that drug, like, I want more of that.

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Speaker 3: And the thing about a guy like show Hey with

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Speaker 3: the appropriate supporting cask and kind of control that I

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Speaker 3: mean he knows by going to the Dodgers becoming a

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Speaker 3: part of that group, I'm going to be able to

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Speaker 3: have that moment more often. And I like that moment

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Speaker 3: because he can't do it by himself. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 3: put up these dramatically wonderful numbers, but I need this

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Speaker 3: entire group around me to be able to throw the

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Speaker 3: last pitch against the teammate actually, and for the first

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Speaker 3: time in the United States, experienced that kind of success

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Speaker 3: as a group, as a team. Because that's what he wants,

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00:19:55,078 --> 00:19:57,518
Speaker 3: that's who he is. So yeah, there's a lot going on,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot to unpack with him. It's very interesting

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Speaker 3: and like you said, humility, my god, he's just dripping

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Speaker 3: with it. And in this this is the guy you

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Speaker 3: want youngsters to look at and emulate. I'm good with

386
00:20:09,078 --> 00:20:11,078
Speaker 3: the em emulating trying to play both sides of the ball.

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00:20:11,118 --> 00:20:13,678
Speaker 3: I'm good at that with that, But how he does

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Speaker 3: things and there's no demonstrative celebrations. He did a little

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Speaker 3: bit when he got to the end there with the

390
00:20:20,038 --> 00:20:23,438
Speaker 3: home runs and the stolen bases, but overall, man, you

391
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Speaker 3: can't get more humble than this fellow. And this guy's

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Speaker 3: like turning on the entire baseball world, not just this

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Speaker 3: particular United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, show Hey, being demonstrative. Joe is at dovetails with winning.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned in the WBC the last out when

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Speaker 1: he hit the home run for fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 2: That was a day.

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Speaker 1: That was a game in which the Dodgers clinched the

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Speaker 1: playoff spot. And you see the fist pump rounding the bases.

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Speaker 1: You see a ninth inning home run against the Colorado

401
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Speaker 1: Rockies to tie the game, and he's yelling, let's go

402
00:20:54,638 --> 00:20:57,238
Speaker 1: around the bases and looking right into the dugout. We're

403
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Speaker 1: seeing the best of show Hey. We're seeing Showy. We

404
00:21:00,158 --> 00:21:03,118
Speaker 1: didn't see with the Angels in terms of being demonstrative

405
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Speaker 1: on the field all about winning. One last thought on SHOWE,

406
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Speaker 1: because you know we could do a podcast every week

407
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Speaker 1: about him. His manager in Japan with the Fighters. He

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Speaker 1: DECI Kurdiyama was also his manager in the WBC. I

409
00:21:17,038 --> 00:21:19,038
Speaker 1: mean he had him for five years over there in Japan,

410
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Speaker 1: and Kourdiama after the fifty to fifty told the Japan

411
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Speaker 1: Times exactly my thought that this is only the beginning

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Speaker 1: for shoey Otani. In the words of Koreama, sho Hey

413
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Speaker 1: is capable of so much more. He sees him making

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Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes at the plate. And Shohy does

415
00:21:35,958 --> 00:21:38,318
Speaker 1: have a high chase rate. It's basically a round major

416
00:21:38,398 --> 00:21:40,638
Speaker 1: league average, and it could be a lot lower. But

417
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Speaker 1: Koreama's point is he's capable of hitting around eighty home runs.

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Speaker 1: Now you say a number like that, you know it's

419
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Speaker 1: like it's hyperbole. We've learned there's no such thing as hyperbole.

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Speaker 1: This is a guy who knows, who knows show Hey

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Speaker 1: really well, managed him, probably more than anybody, and he

422
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Speaker 1: says he's capable of hitting eighty home runs. It's amazing.

423
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Speaker 2: Well, I like, in order to do that, you have

424
00:22:07,598 --> 00:22:09,358
Speaker 2: to be shown up by a Bets and a Freeman

425
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Speaker 2: and people like that. That's part of that.

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Speaker 3: I believe the fact that they hit him lead off,

427
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Speaker 3: I thought was wise because he needs the entire batting

428
00:22:16,238 --> 00:22:18,718
Speaker 3: order to protect him. If you leave him exposed it

429
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Speaker 3: all in a lower part of the order with the

430
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Speaker 3: more pedestrian kind of hitters.

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Speaker 2: Behind him, he's not going to have that opportunity. You're

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Speaker 2: just not going to permit it.

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Speaker 3: But when the line of quart comes over and he's

434
00:22:29,878 --> 00:22:31,878
Speaker 3: Showy hitting number one, and then all of a sudden

435
00:22:31,878 --> 00:22:35,278
Speaker 3: you see Bets Freeman behind him, definitely creates pause within

436
00:22:35,358 --> 00:22:38,998
Speaker 3: the other manager's thought process. So all these things, all

437
00:22:39,038 --> 00:22:41,958
Speaker 3: these factors are conspiring to put together this year the

438
00:22:41,998 --> 00:22:44,438
Speaker 3: greatness of show Hey his dedication to the.

439
00:22:44,438 --> 00:22:45,238
Speaker 2: Game of humility.

440
00:22:45,678 --> 00:22:48,318
Speaker 3: I still believe humility might be the strongest attribute anybody

441
00:22:48,358 --> 00:22:52,078
Speaker 3: can have. But then you put these people behind him,

442
00:22:52,718 --> 00:22:56,078
Speaker 3: who are really better contributing factors than a lot of

443
00:22:56,078 --> 00:22:58,038
Speaker 3: people want to give them credit for regarding show a

444
00:22:58,158 --> 00:23:01,718
Speaker 3: success this year because they are, because again with the Angels,

445
00:23:01,798 --> 00:23:03,558
Speaker 3: there wasn't that. And I really that's why I wanted

446
00:23:03,558 --> 00:23:06,958
Speaker 3: a bat near the top, either one or two, especially

447
00:23:06,998 --> 00:23:10,678
Speaker 3: when utilizing him as a pitcher and a position. Get

448
00:23:10,758 --> 00:23:12,838
Speaker 3: him out of the mountain, let him be one more

449
00:23:12,878 --> 00:23:16,078
Speaker 3: at bat so hole lineup's got to protect him. But

450
00:23:16,198 --> 00:23:19,198
Speaker 3: he needs he needs he needs de Niro and he

451
00:23:19,318 --> 00:23:21,798
Speaker 3: needs Paccino, and he needs all these dudes behind him

452
00:23:22,118 --> 00:23:24,118
Speaker 3: to really be the actor that he's capable of being.

453
00:23:24,918 --> 00:23:27,358
Speaker 1: Well, lucky us for the first time we get to

454
00:23:27,438 --> 00:23:30,198
Speaker 1: see show Hey playing in the postseason. Can't wait for that.

455
00:23:31,158 --> 00:23:34,118
Speaker 1: That's the show Hey O Tani story to be continued

456
00:23:34,318 --> 00:23:38,078
Speaker 1: in the meantime. A third manager was fired this year.

457
00:23:38,718 --> 00:23:42,718
Speaker 1: Did David Bell deserve the exit door in Cincinnati? We'll

458
00:23:42,758 --> 00:23:45,838
Speaker 1: talk about that right after this on the Book of Joe.

459
00:23:58,598 --> 00:24:01,038
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts, and we

460
00:24:01,158 --> 00:24:03,838
Speaker 1: love talking about managers here. In this case, the news

461
00:24:04,078 --> 00:24:08,078
Speaker 1: is not good. It's David Bell getting fired by the

462
00:24:08,118 --> 00:24:11,718
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Reds. A six year record of four h nine

463
00:24:11,758 --> 00:24:13,878
Speaker 1: and four fifty six. It's a four to seventy three

464
00:24:13,958 --> 00:24:19,478
Speaker 1: winning percentage with no playoff wins. The Reds were expected

465
00:24:19,518 --> 00:24:21,678
Speaker 1: to do better this year. They had a lot of

466
00:24:21,798 --> 00:24:23,878
Speaker 1: rookies last year who popped through and you look at

467
00:24:23,918 --> 00:24:26,478
Speaker 1: their offense and you think, man, this team's about ready

468
00:24:26,518 --> 00:24:30,078
Speaker 1: to take off. You know, maybe a slightly lesser version

469
00:24:30,118 --> 00:24:31,758
Speaker 1: of the Orioles a couple of years ago. It just

470
00:24:31,838 --> 00:24:35,598
Speaker 1: didn't happen another losing season. David Bell is out, the

471
00:24:35,678 --> 00:24:38,558
Speaker 1: third manager fire this year, after Pedro Griffol with the

472
00:24:38,598 --> 00:24:42,038
Speaker 1: White Sox and Scott Service with the Mariners. Joe of

473
00:24:42,198 --> 00:24:44,878
Speaker 1: on mine that you know, I like David Bell a lot,

474
00:24:45,198 --> 00:24:47,998
Speaker 1: and certainly what happened with the team this year, injuries

475
00:24:48,078 --> 00:24:50,958
Speaker 1: beginning with Matt McLean in spring training as usual, out

476
00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:53,438
Speaker 1: of the manager's control, and he winds up paying the price.

477
00:24:54,118 --> 00:24:56,678
Speaker 1: But I do kind of understand. You get six years

478
00:24:57,278 --> 00:24:59,918
Speaker 1: in big leagues as a manager in any kind of

479
00:24:59,998 --> 00:25:02,198
Speaker 1: market and you're under five hundred and you have no

480
00:25:02,318 --> 00:25:05,838
Speaker 1: playoff wins. Job is gonna be on the line. No again,

481
00:25:05,958 --> 00:25:07,958
Speaker 1: he's bearing the brunt of it. This is what happens, Joe.

482
00:25:08,038 --> 00:25:10,718
Speaker 1: You know that better than anybody in the game. It's

483
00:25:10,838 --> 00:25:13,518
Speaker 1: more systemic what's going on in Cincinnati, especially when it

484
00:25:13,558 --> 00:25:15,558
Speaker 1: comes to some of the pitching and actually they're they're

485
00:25:15,598 --> 00:25:18,558
Speaker 1: hitting really didn't develop much this year. But on the

486
00:25:18,638 --> 00:25:21,118
Speaker 1: face of it, I understand a six year run where

487
00:25:21,118 --> 00:25:23,238
Speaker 1: you don't win a playoff game, it's it's hard to

488
00:25:23,318 --> 00:25:24,278
Speaker 1: ask for a more rope.

489
00:25:24,878 --> 00:25:26,758
Speaker 3: Let me just see if I could present my thoughts.

490
00:25:26,798 --> 00:25:29,598
Speaker 3: First of all, there's a lot of teams that have

491
00:25:29,678 --> 00:25:31,638
Speaker 3: had poor records this year and over the last couple

492
00:25:31,638 --> 00:25:32,118
Speaker 3: of years.

493
00:25:31,958 --> 00:25:34,478
Speaker 2: But managers have maintained their their job.

494
00:25:34,558 --> 00:25:37,558
Speaker 3: And I think primarily why because you know, every time

495
00:25:37,638 --> 00:25:41,078
Speaker 3: somebody gets fired, somebody's or a team's doing poorly, people

496
00:25:41,158 --> 00:25:41,758
Speaker 3: start texting me.

497
00:25:41,718 --> 00:25:42,958
Speaker 2: And said, listen, any going to happen.

498
00:25:43,238 --> 00:25:46,478
Speaker 3: There's more patience with the managers right now because we've

499
00:25:46,518 --> 00:25:47,118
Speaker 3: talked about this.

500
00:25:47,958 --> 00:25:48,358
Speaker 2: It's there.

501
00:25:49,158 --> 00:25:51,518
Speaker 3: They don't have the autonomy they've once had, so the

502
00:25:51,758 --> 00:25:55,398
Speaker 3: decision making process on a daily basis is not necessarily

503
00:25:55,438 --> 00:25:57,718
Speaker 3: controlled by them. There was a time that the manager

504
00:25:57,758 --> 00:26:01,078
Speaker 3: controlled all the decision making process within the clubhouse, but

505
00:26:01,158 --> 00:26:04,638
Speaker 3: it's there's so much more coming from above that there's

506
00:26:04,678 --> 00:26:07,038
Speaker 3: there's more patience with this because a lot of times

507
00:26:07,118 --> 00:26:10,438
Speaker 3: the manager is just he's playing out pretty much what's

508
00:26:10,478 --> 00:26:13,478
Speaker 3: been deemed important before the game. And when you do that,

509
00:26:13,558 --> 00:26:15,318
Speaker 3: when you're always relying on somebody else to tell you

510
00:26:15,438 --> 00:26:17,238
Speaker 3: what you know, what's this and what's that, it really

511
00:26:17,518 --> 00:26:20,718
Speaker 3: stifles your creativity. It stifles your thought process in regards

512
00:26:20,798 --> 00:26:22,918
Speaker 3: to taking chances or looking for openings here or there,

513
00:26:23,038 --> 00:26:26,678
Speaker 3: because because it's these these these gaps, these openings are

514
00:26:26,718 --> 00:26:30,958
Speaker 3: being filled before the game. So I think that managers,

515
00:26:31,278 --> 00:26:34,358
Speaker 3: the firing of managers has become a more patient process

516
00:26:34,878 --> 00:26:37,318
Speaker 3: because of that, because of the decision making and how

517
00:26:37,358 --> 00:26:40,398
Speaker 3: it's disseminated now compared to what it had been in

518
00:26:40,518 --> 00:26:43,678
Speaker 3: the past. So and with David, I like David Belto.

519
00:26:43,678 --> 00:26:46,678
Speaker 3: I think he's a wonderful guy. And the injuries, I mean,

520
00:26:46,838 --> 00:26:50,038
Speaker 3: every team has to Every team gets injured every year.

521
00:26:50,438 --> 00:26:52,438
Speaker 3: It's rare that you get this the team that just

522
00:26:52,558 --> 00:26:55,918
Speaker 3: goes wire to wire, everything works out well, people really

523
00:26:55,958 --> 00:26:58,158
Speaker 3: significant people don't get hurt, and then of course you

524
00:26:58,198 --> 00:27:00,838
Speaker 3: have a chance to win. So that's part of the landscape.

525
00:27:00,878 --> 00:27:04,078
Speaker 3: And I believe me it's true. Injuries do devastate, no

526
00:27:04,238 --> 00:27:06,158
Speaker 3: doubt they do. I've been part of that as a

527
00:27:06,238 --> 00:27:08,958
Speaker 3: manager myself. However, you really got to try to find

528
00:27:08,998 --> 00:27:12,038
Speaker 3: your way through this somehow. And again this you're at

529
00:27:12,078 --> 00:27:15,718
Speaker 3: the mercy of whom the front office teams are their

530
00:27:15,758 --> 00:27:18,918
Speaker 3: appropriate replacements for these guys. And then how deep are

531
00:27:18,998 --> 00:27:22,318
Speaker 3: we So where's where are these guys coming from? So

532
00:27:23,038 --> 00:27:27,038
Speaker 3: it's just that managers aren't as openly criticized as they

533
00:27:27,118 --> 00:27:29,918
Speaker 3: had been. And again, because of the reasons, I just

534
00:27:29,998 --> 00:27:32,918
Speaker 3: tried to direct so but then you're right. I mean,

535
00:27:32,998 --> 00:27:36,518
Speaker 3: after six years of being below five hundred, somebody something's

536
00:27:36,558 --> 00:27:39,278
Speaker 3: got to go. There's something systemic wrong with this situation,

537
00:27:39,798 --> 00:27:41,638
Speaker 3: and you've got to open it up and try to

538
00:27:42,598 --> 00:27:44,718
Speaker 3: go down a different path. And that's what they're doing

539
00:27:44,838 --> 00:27:47,678
Speaker 3: right now. But David Bell as solid man. I like

540
00:27:47,758 --> 00:27:50,558
Speaker 3: the man a lot. We've had some nice conversations, but

541
00:27:50,998 --> 00:27:53,038
Speaker 3: in my mind's I there's those are the other teams.

542
00:27:53,078 --> 00:27:55,438
Speaker 3: You look at the records and the five hundred. I

543
00:27:55,478 --> 00:27:57,358
Speaker 3: think we have teams that are barely above five hundred

544
00:27:57,398 --> 00:27:59,918
Speaker 3: right now battling for a position where there was a

545
00:27:59,958 --> 00:28:02,838
Speaker 3: time I was called mediocrity and now it's a playoff caliber.

546
00:28:02,998 --> 00:28:06,558
Speaker 3: So there's some things that are different. It's being controlled differently,

547
00:28:06,678 --> 00:28:10,238
Speaker 3: the thought process is different, which what we consider success

548
00:28:10,398 --> 00:28:11,598
Speaker 3: is different than.

549
00:28:11,478 --> 00:28:11,998
Speaker 2: It had been.

550
00:28:12,438 --> 00:28:15,798
Speaker 3: And all these things are interconnected. Are all interconnected. But

551
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:17,998
Speaker 3: for David, I hope it you know, something else pops

552
00:28:17,998 --> 00:28:20,398
Speaker 3: for them. But I believe these are the This is

553
00:28:20,478 --> 00:28:23,318
Speaker 3: how I view something like this, and you're right based

554
00:28:23,358 --> 00:28:25,598
Speaker 3: on things that I've gone through personally, I've lived that.

555
00:28:25,678 --> 00:28:28,278
Speaker 3: So I'm not making stuff up and I'm just trying

556
00:28:28,318 --> 00:28:31,118
Speaker 3: to explain to exactly how I see it coming down.

557
00:28:31,318 --> 00:28:35,438
Speaker 3: So that's it, and now Cincinnati's looking for a new route.

558
00:28:35,518 --> 00:28:37,918
Speaker 3: But they have to examine themselves for an office wise too,

559
00:28:38,398 --> 00:28:40,318
Speaker 3: and not just latest completely on the manager.

560
00:28:40,758 --> 00:28:42,598
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. Listen. First of all, I

561
00:28:42,638 --> 00:28:45,798
Speaker 1: think the Reds going into this season were overrated by

562
00:28:45,798 --> 00:28:47,518
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You look back at their season

563
00:28:47,598 --> 00:28:51,158
Speaker 1: last year, they were thirty four and twenty nine and

564
00:28:51,238 --> 00:28:53,238
Speaker 1: one run games. When you look at them runs they

565
00:28:53,278 --> 00:28:55,158
Speaker 1: scored and the runs they gave up, they were more

566
00:28:55,438 --> 00:28:57,678
Speaker 1: closer to a seventy seven win team than an eighty

567
00:28:57,718 --> 00:29:00,638
Speaker 1: two win team. And of course these things, you know,

568
00:29:00,838 --> 00:29:02,798
Speaker 1: tend to even out this year, one run games, the

569
00:29:02,838 --> 00:29:06,598
Speaker 1: Reds go fifteen in twenty seven. It was David Bell

570
00:29:06,638 --> 00:29:08,798
Speaker 1: any worse of a manager, I don't think so. It's

571
00:29:08,958 --> 00:29:11,838
Speaker 1: just the way these you know, these close games can

572
00:29:11,878 --> 00:29:15,078
Speaker 1: go and can go for you or against you. But

573
00:29:15,158 --> 00:29:17,278
Speaker 1: the other thing I think, Joey, you look around, this

574
00:29:17,438 --> 00:29:21,678
Speaker 1: is not endemic just to the Reds. The inability to

575
00:29:21,838 --> 00:29:26,078
Speaker 1: get pitchers who provide innings. I mean, they actually have

576
00:29:26,238 --> 00:29:29,078
Speaker 1: a pretty good crop of young pitchers here all between

577
00:29:29,158 --> 00:29:32,158
Speaker 1: twenty four and twenty six. I'm talking about starters, Hunter Green,

578
00:29:32,198 --> 00:29:34,558
Speaker 1: who's taking a nice step forward this year, Andrew Abbott,

579
00:29:34,878 --> 00:29:38,878
Speaker 1: Nicko Lodolo, nick Ashgraft. These guys have pitched eleven seasons

580
00:29:38,918 --> 00:29:42,238
Speaker 1: in the big leagues and none of them have pitched

581
00:29:42,318 --> 00:29:44,718
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty two innings. Yet in the major leagues,

582
00:29:45,398 --> 00:29:48,518
Speaker 1: the Reds have gone three straight years without a pitcher

583
00:29:48,638 --> 00:29:51,958
Speaker 1: qualifying for the EER title. I mean, you can't contend

584
00:29:52,118 --> 00:29:54,318
Speaker 1: like that. I know, understand innings are down and all that,

585
00:29:54,518 --> 00:29:56,638
Speaker 1: but come on, at some point, you've got to keep

586
00:29:56,678 --> 00:29:59,038
Speaker 1: pictures healthy. You've got to leave pitchers out there, and

587
00:29:59,118 --> 00:30:02,598
Speaker 1: actually I think David Bell did for a lot of games,

588
00:30:03,078 --> 00:30:06,598
Speaker 1: leave pitchers out there longer than most. But the inability

589
00:30:06,718 --> 00:30:10,238
Speaker 1: to get length from starting pitching, especially in a ballpark

590
00:30:10,358 --> 00:30:13,678
Speaker 1: like Cincinnati, which is obviously a hit a friendly ballpark,

591
00:30:14,278 --> 00:30:15,798
Speaker 1: I mean, they've got to look at what's going on

592
00:30:15,958 --> 00:30:18,638
Speaker 1: with developing pitchers because they've had some talent, but they're

593
00:30:18,718 --> 00:30:20,038
Speaker 1: just not out there enough.

594
00:30:20,878 --> 00:30:22,558
Speaker 2: Again, lots going on there.

595
00:30:23,398 --> 00:30:26,478
Speaker 3: Part of it is I don't think these pitchers are

596
00:30:26,518 --> 00:30:28,998
Speaker 3: being stretched out both physically and mentally in the minor leagues.

597
00:30:28,998 --> 00:30:31,038
Speaker 3: They're brought to the major leagues way too soon. There's

598
00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:33,478
Speaker 3: a need, a perceived need for these guys. Who don't

599
00:30:33,478 --> 00:30:35,598
Speaker 3: have enough of these guys, so we bring them up

600
00:30:35,598 --> 00:30:37,798
Speaker 3: where they're not stretched out physically to the point where

601
00:30:37,918 --> 00:30:41,438
Speaker 3: like you're talking about one hundred and sixty being tops. Wow,

602
00:30:41,598 --> 00:30:44,758
Speaker 3: I really want a thousand innings out of my starting pitchers.

603
00:30:44,838 --> 00:30:45,078
Speaker 2: I do.

604
00:30:46,038 --> 00:30:49,318
Speaker 3: I think that's a real obvious indicator for successive an organization.

605
00:30:49,358 --> 00:30:51,238
Speaker 3: When you have a bunch of guys, what is that's

606
00:30:51,278 --> 00:30:54,798
Speaker 3: not just five, if that might be eight, eight legitimate

607
00:30:55,118 --> 00:30:57,598
Speaker 3: starting pitchers that you have between the big big league

608
00:30:57,598 --> 00:30:59,878
Speaker 3: team and minor league team, somebody's gonna get hurt. You're

609
00:30:59,878 --> 00:31:01,198
Speaker 3: gonna have to rotate them in and out. You might

610
00:31:01,318 --> 00:31:04,278
Speaker 3: want to back somebody off injeck, somebody in there. But

611
00:31:04,398 --> 00:31:07,918
Speaker 3: this isn't even thought of anymore because the third time

612
00:31:07,958 --> 00:31:10,998
Speaker 3: through the batting good has become the significant roadblock where

613
00:31:11,038 --> 00:31:13,278
Speaker 3: we have to really address this. And because of that,

614
00:31:13,758 --> 00:31:16,318
Speaker 3: we're taking guys out and not giving them opportunities to

615
00:31:16,358 --> 00:31:19,118
Speaker 3: get through that moment because we recognize this as being

616
00:31:19,478 --> 00:31:21,798
Speaker 3: such a horrible moment in the game of baseball.

617
00:31:22,118 --> 00:31:23,278
Speaker 2: But again, look at the records.

618
00:31:23,318 --> 00:31:26,678
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody, the definition of insanity is doing the

619
00:31:26,718 --> 00:31:28,918
Speaker 3: same thing over and over again and getting the same result.

620
00:31:29,318 --> 00:31:31,238
Speaker 3: You're not getting any mega teams right now, you're not

621
00:31:31,278 --> 00:31:34,478
Speaker 3: getting any mega pitching staffs. Everybody's breaking down. It's not

622
00:31:34,638 --> 00:31:36,998
Speaker 3: like the less innings or less number of pitches being

623
00:31:37,038 --> 00:31:40,758
Speaker 3: thrown as a pantasa regarding length of the pitcher and

624
00:31:40,838 --> 00:31:41,518
Speaker 3: health of the pitcher.

625
00:31:41,558 --> 00:31:44,198
Speaker 2: It's not. It's not. So you're right.

626
00:31:44,518 --> 00:31:48,198
Speaker 3: Things have to be a re thought out and you

627
00:31:48,358 --> 00:31:50,798
Speaker 3: have to get away from pure numbers in this situation

628
00:31:50,958 --> 00:31:54,078
Speaker 3: and realize you're dealing with actual human beings. And then again,

629
00:31:54,118 --> 00:31:57,198
Speaker 3: we talk about velocity, we talk about how velo is

630
00:31:57,318 --> 00:31:59,758
Speaker 3: hurting people. It's not just because they're throwing hardest. How

631
00:31:59,798 --> 00:32:02,038
Speaker 3: they're throwing harder, and what they do is contort to

632
00:32:02,198 --> 00:32:04,878
Speaker 3: arms in an effort to throw harder their bodies. The

633
00:32:05,158 --> 00:32:08,238
Speaker 3: undue stress they're putting on different joints to do that,

634
00:32:08,358 --> 00:32:11,358
Speaker 3: they're not learning how to pitch. In my leagues, to me, still,

635
00:32:11,398 --> 00:32:14,198
Speaker 3: the best pitch in all of baseball is the well

636
00:32:14,238 --> 00:32:18,798
Speaker 3: located fastball, and that's really a long gone art. You

637
00:32:18,918 --> 00:32:20,838
Speaker 3: talked about the Red Sox earlier this year and how

638
00:32:21,238 --> 00:32:23,598
Speaker 3: they've really relied on their breakball and that was working

639
00:32:23,678 --> 00:32:25,598
Speaker 3: out so well in the beginning of the year, but

640
00:32:25,718 --> 00:32:27,718
Speaker 3: by the end of the year people make adjustments and

641
00:32:27,758 --> 00:32:30,438
Speaker 3: it's not nearly the same. Still, a well located fastball,

642
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:32,678
Speaker 3: to me is the best pitch to pitch off of

643
00:32:32,758 --> 00:32:34,878
Speaker 3: The next best pitch is a s great change up

644
00:32:34,958 --> 00:32:36,998
Speaker 3: or a changeup of some kind. And then you get

645
00:32:37,038 --> 00:32:38,398
Speaker 3: into all this all this stuff, and I like the

646
00:32:38,478 --> 00:32:41,358
Speaker 3: curve over the cutter and slider when you're changing planes,

647
00:32:41,398 --> 00:32:44,078
Speaker 3: but nobody's teaching the curve ball anymore. So anyway, you

648
00:32:44,238 --> 00:32:48,678
Speaker 3: have to really start building this process of getting more

649
00:32:48,718 --> 00:32:51,918
Speaker 3: innings out of your starters. By doing that, these guys

650
00:32:52,078 --> 00:32:54,198
Speaker 3: in the minor leagues learn how to get through the

651
00:32:54,278 --> 00:32:57,838
Speaker 3: third time through the batting order, not just you get

652
00:32:57,878 --> 00:32:59,598
Speaker 3: to the big leagues and it's assumed that they can't

653
00:32:59,598 --> 00:33:02,158
Speaker 3: because they've never been challenged with it. They never learned

654
00:33:02,198 --> 00:33:04,198
Speaker 3: how to do it. Okay, the problem is so okay,

655
00:33:04,198 --> 00:33:06,318
Speaker 3: if you look at your numbers, all of a sudden

656
00:33:06,318 --> 00:33:08,198
Speaker 3: the third time THI you're getting your butt kicked. What

657
00:33:08,278 --> 00:33:10,478
Speaker 3: are you going to do about it? That's a great

658
00:33:10,558 --> 00:33:13,318
Speaker 3: form of teaching right there. That is just just the

659
00:33:13,438 --> 00:33:15,398
Speaker 3: fact alone that I know I have to get better

660
00:33:15,478 --> 00:33:19,758
Speaker 3: at this should really serve to make you figure out

661
00:33:19,758 --> 00:33:21,038
Speaker 3: a way to do this. Because I want to be

662
00:33:21,078 --> 00:33:22,678
Speaker 3: a big league pitcher. I want to get to be

663
00:33:22,758 --> 00:33:24,758
Speaker 3: a part of that thousand and any group. So I

664
00:33:24,838 --> 00:33:26,118
Speaker 3: got to learn how to get this go out the

665
00:33:26,198 --> 00:33:28,438
Speaker 3: third time to debatting order that it can't show my

666
00:33:28,478 --> 00:33:31,118
Speaker 3: whole arsenal. I just can't go like zero to sixty

667
00:33:31,158 --> 00:33:32,878
Speaker 3: from the very first pitch. I got to learn how

668
00:33:32,918 --> 00:33:35,398
Speaker 3: to space this out a little bit and get outs,

669
00:33:35,478 --> 00:33:38,838
Speaker 3: get get early count outs, not just going for the

670
00:33:38,878 --> 00:33:41,038
Speaker 3: strike out all the time. This is like, you know,

671
00:33:41,158 --> 00:33:44,358
Speaker 3: the past kind of thought process going into pitching. So

672
00:33:44,998 --> 00:33:47,558
Speaker 3: all these again I talk about being interconnected, because they are.

673
00:33:48,038 --> 00:33:50,198
Speaker 2: They are. It's just it's just it's not in a vacuum.

674
00:33:50,238 --> 00:33:51,518
Speaker 2: It's not just one thing or the other.

675
00:33:51,958 --> 00:33:54,798
Speaker 3: All this stuff needs to be nurtured greater and better.

676
00:33:55,238 --> 00:33:58,878
Speaker 3: So listen, given an opportunity to really run a minor

677
00:33:58,918 --> 00:34:00,598
Speaker 3: league system again, this would be a.

678
00:34:00,598 --> 00:34:01,278
Speaker 2: Big part of it.

679
00:34:01,638 --> 00:34:04,478
Speaker 3: And you get people in there that I'm talking about,

680
00:34:04,478 --> 00:34:07,398
Speaker 3: pitching coaches and guys that have been around a bit

681
00:34:07,878 --> 00:34:11,078
Speaker 3: to really work on mechanically to be able to throw

682
00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:13,238
Speaker 3: your fastball where you want to when you want to.

683
00:34:13,398 --> 00:34:15,358
Speaker 3: To me talk about SHOWI I just did a gig

684
00:34:15,478 --> 00:34:19,838
Speaker 3: for Japanese media yesterday and the big thing, the difference

685
00:34:19,838 --> 00:34:22,678
Speaker 3: between Showy for me from twenty twenty to twenty twenty

686
00:34:22,758 --> 00:34:25,718
Speaker 3: one was how he located his fastball. When I saw

687
00:34:25,798 --> 00:34:28,678
Speaker 3: him at twenty twenty in that COVID season, he had

688
00:34:28,758 --> 00:34:31,598
Speaker 3: no clue as fastball was going none. Then he came

689
00:34:31,638 --> 00:34:34,078
Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty one on spring training watching whoa,

690
00:34:34,758 --> 00:34:37,198
Speaker 3: he knows where his fastball is going. This is going

691
00:34:37,278 --> 00:34:40,438
Speaker 3: to be different, and it is so again, there's a

692
00:34:40,518 --> 00:34:42,078
Speaker 3: lot to talk about here. These are the kind of

693
00:34:42,158 --> 00:34:46,758
Speaker 3: discussions in the minor leagues you have in spring trainings

694
00:34:46,838 --> 00:34:49,998
Speaker 3: or even like you used to have organizational meetings at

695
00:34:49,998 --> 00:34:52,038
Speaker 3: the end of the season which were fabulous and you

696
00:34:52,078 --> 00:34:55,478
Speaker 3: can get like, you know, a little little smaller groups,

697
00:34:55,558 --> 00:34:57,318
Speaker 3: breakout groups, and you get in there and you discuss

698
00:34:57,318 --> 00:35:01,118
Speaker 3: specifically some things like this, and you rely on guys

699
00:35:01,158 --> 00:35:04,878
Speaker 3: that have taught this in the past. So yes, utilize technology,

700
00:35:05,118 --> 00:35:08,958
Speaker 3: absolutely do that, but don't don't forget what's gone on

701
00:35:09,078 --> 00:35:11,838
Speaker 3: in the past, and teach guys how to get hitters

702
00:35:11,838 --> 00:35:14,038
Speaker 3: out the third time through, which is also going to

703
00:35:14,078 --> 00:35:15,158
Speaker 3: build better bullpens.

704
00:35:15,478 --> 00:35:17,638
Speaker 2: And I believe it's going to keep guys healthier longer.

705
00:35:17,998 --> 00:35:19,038
Speaker 2: Wow with a long answer.

706
00:35:20,118 --> 00:35:25,318
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, Joe in a very small sample size aj Hinch,

707
00:35:25,798 --> 00:35:29,638
Speaker 1: manager of the Tigers, has got his team somehow on

708
00:35:29,798 --> 00:35:32,638
Speaker 1: the cusp of getting to the postseason. And he's done

709
00:35:32,718 --> 00:35:37,998
Speaker 1: it with confusing opponents by changing pitchers so darn often.

710
00:35:38,398 --> 00:35:40,238
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got Trek scooball, one of the best

711
00:35:40,278 --> 00:35:42,438
Speaker 1: pitchers in the game. You love giving him the ball.

712
00:35:42,558 --> 00:35:44,598
Speaker 1: That's old school. He's going to go seven, maybe eight

713
00:35:44,678 --> 00:35:49,838
Speaker 1: for you. But since August twenty fifth, his starters went

714
00:35:50,038 --> 00:35:54,718
Speaker 1: less than five innings fifteen times, and the Tigers went

715
00:35:54,878 --> 00:35:58,718
Speaker 1: eleven and four in those short starts, and the hits

716
00:35:58,878 --> 00:36:01,038
Speaker 1: just one guy after the bullpen getting it done. And

717
00:36:01,118 --> 00:36:04,158
Speaker 1: now they called up their top pitching prospect, who was

718
00:36:04,198 --> 00:36:06,478
Speaker 1: a starting pitcher who throws one hundred miles an hour,

719
00:36:06,638 --> 00:36:09,558
Speaker 1: Jackson job, who is going to pitch you got it

720
00:36:09,998 --> 00:36:12,038
Speaker 1: out of the bullpen down the stretch here in this

721
00:36:12,238 --> 00:36:15,518
Speaker 1: last week for Detroit, who, by the way, finish against

722
00:36:15,558 --> 00:36:18,638
Speaker 1: the Chicago White Sox, against whom they are nine and

723
00:36:18,918 --> 00:36:21,998
Speaker 1: one this year. And Schoolble is lined up to pitch

724
00:36:22,078 --> 00:36:25,318
Speaker 1: the last day if needed. If not, he gets to

725
00:36:25,398 --> 00:36:28,718
Speaker 1: start the first Division series a wildcard series for Detroit.

726
00:36:28,878 --> 00:36:32,158
Speaker 1: So it's amazing what Hinch has done down the stretch here,

727
00:36:32,358 --> 00:36:35,798
Speaker 1: mixing and matching, and it has worked in a short

728
00:36:35,878 --> 00:36:39,238
Speaker 1: sample size. I would never advise it for a whole season, correct,

729
00:36:40,358 --> 00:36:43,278
Speaker 1: But in tournament style play it's worked for him.

730
00:36:43,478 --> 00:36:45,958
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they don't have starters, So you have to

731
00:36:46,038 --> 00:36:48,398
Speaker 3: do this. If you had nurtured the starters, it wouldn't

732
00:36:48,398 --> 00:36:50,438
Speaker 3: be part of the landscape. And you got to be

733
00:36:50,758 --> 00:36:52,958
Speaker 3: It's got to be somewhat lucky to get to bring

734
00:36:53,078 --> 00:36:54,878
Speaker 3: that many guys in and out of a game. Believe me,

735
00:36:55,518 --> 00:36:57,998
Speaker 3: game begins, the game starts to roll, and here we

736
00:36:58,038 --> 00:36:59,718
Speaker 3: get to the fourth or fifth inning and I already

737
00:36:59,718 --> 00:37:01,238
Speaker 3: have to go to my bullpen. You have to have

738
00:37:01,398 --> 00:37:04,278
Speaker 3: some You have to have like a logjam full of

739
00:37:04,438 --> 00:37:07,438
Speaker 3: really good relief pitchers out there in order to feel

740
00:37:07,518 --> 00:37:09,478
Speaker 3: comfortable about going one after another.

741
00:37:09,278 --> 00:37:11,278
Speaker 2: For that many evenings, that many nights in a row.

742
00:37:11,638 --> 00:37:12,958
Speaker 2: There's a lot of luck involved in that.

743
00:37:13,158 --> 00:37:15,158
Speaker 3: Just like you talked about you brought up the fact

744
00:37:15,198 --> 00:37:17,718
Speaker 3: that the one run games with Cincinnati, how it worked

745
00:37:17,758 --> 00:37:19,558
Speaker 3: all well last year and this year not so well.

746
00:37:19,798 --> 00:37:23,158
Speaker 3: It's kind of a the roulette version of a bullpen.

747
00:37:24,158 --> 00:37:25,998
Speaker 3: It's really hard to sustain that. Like you said, and

748
00:37:26,318 --> 00:37:28,558
Speaker 3: it is. It's tournament play. You're right, tournament play, you

749
00:37:28,598 --> 00:37:30,198
Speaker 3: can do things like this. I've been a part of

750
00:37:30,278 --> 00:37:33,598
Speaker 3: that myself. But to do this on a sustained basis,

751
00:37:33,958 --> 00:37:36,158
Speaker 3: it ain't gonna work. You're gonna blow people out. Guys

752
00:37:36,158 --> 00:37:38,958
Speaker 3: are gonna be fatigued. Right now, they're running there. They're

753
00:37:38,998 --> 00:37:41,798
Speaker 3: fitting an adrenaline rush too, based on what they just

754
00:37:41,878 --> 00:37:44,398
Speaker 3: did in Kansas City and all the and the fact

755
00:37:44,398 --> 00:37:46,358
Speaker 3: that they're really rolling here at the end and they're

756
00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:49,478
Speaker 3: still at eight games above five hundred, so there's a

757
00:37:49,558 --> 00:37:53,238
Speaker 3: lot Again, it's wonderful. It's like the Diamondbacks catching fire

758
00:37:53,238 --> 00:37:56,678
Speaker 3: at the right time last year. These teams that kind

759
00:37:56,718 --> 00:37:59,318
Speaker 3: of like pedestrian records are still qualified to get there.

760
00:37:59,758 --> 00:38:02,078
Speaker 3: And right now, yeah, you're gonna do whatever it takes

761
00:38:02,478 --> 00:38:06,238
Speaker 3: to put yourself in that position. But long term, long haul,

762
00:38:06,998 --> 00:38:10,038
Speaker 3: it's hard to imagine this working. You just can't put

763
00:38:10,118 --> 00:38:12,038
Speaker 3: that much screttion and you can't be I'm saying, I

764
00:38:12,158 --> 00:38:15,158
Speaker 3: can't be that lucky as a manager to constantly do

765
00:38:15,358 --> 00:38:17,958
Speaker 3: this and have it always work out for that many

766
00:38:18,038 --> 00:38:19,638
Speaker 3: innings on a nightly basis.

767
00:38:20,278 --> 00:38:22,558
Speaker 1: One last thought here on managers, and I want to

768
00:38:22,598 --> 00:38:26,078
Speaker 1: talk about two of your former teams, Joe. The Angels,

769
00:38:26,118 --> 00:38:28,238
Speaker 1: believe it or not, are in danger of setting a

770
00:38:28,358 --> 00:38:32,678
Speaker 1: franchise record for losses this year. They're high or low

771
00:38:32,758 --> 00:38:36,398
Speaker 1: if you will, r ninety five done in nineteen eighty

772
00:38:37,158 --> 00:38:40,998
Speaker 1: and nineteen sixty eight. And then they're the Cubs. And

773
00:38:41,118 --> 00:38:45,358
Speaker 1: I love this argument from Craig Council. Let's face it,

774
00:38:45,478 --> 00:38:48,118
Speaker 1: he's probably the most secure manager in baseball with the

775
00:38:48,198 --> 00:38:50,838
Speaker 1: contract he signed essentially as a free agent last winter.

776
00:38:51,798 --> 00:38:55,318
Speaker 1: He said, we should be building teams here that win

777
00:38:55,518 --> 00:38:59,478
Speaker 1: ninety games. We should be trying to build ninety win teams.

778
00:38:59,558 --> 00:39:01,398
Speaker 1: Gets to your point, Joe, about some of these teams

779
00:39:01,438 --> 00:39:04,798
Speaker 1: that are around contention playing basically media yogre baseball, five

780
00:39:04,838 --> 00:39:07,758
Speaker 1: hundred baseball. You're the Chicago Cubs. Uh, you're in a

781
00:39:07,798 --> 00:39:11,718
Speaker 1: big market. And the Cubs just weren't built to me

782
00:39:11,998 --> 00:39:14,958
Speaker 1: to win ninety plus games, and that they have found

783
00:39:14,998 --> 00:39:18,558
Speaker 1: their level. They're around a five hundred team, and it's

784
00:39:18,638 --> 00:39:21,278
Speaker 1: interesting they're gonna have to relook at their offense. It

785
00:39:21,438 --> 00:39:24,358
Speaker 1: really cratered this year. But Joe, I know you went

786
00:39:24,438 --> 00:39:27,838
Speaker 1: through this too. Wrigly Field can play so differently, and

787
00:39:27,998 --> 00:39:30,838
Speaker 1: this year I don't know what the wind patterns were,

788
00:39:31,758 --> 00:39:34,438
Speaker 1: but Wrigley's batting average this year I'm talking about the

789
00:39:34,438 --> 00:39:37,518
Speaker 1: Cubs and their opponents is too twenty eight. The on

790
00:39:37,678 --> 00:39:41,718
Speaker 1: base percentage is to ninety seven. That is the lowest

791
00:39:41,958 --> 00:39:45,358
Speaker 1: in the history of Wrigley Field. The previous low was

792
00:39:45,438 --> 00:39:47,798
Speaker 1: it wasn't even wriggly Field yet it was Weegman Park

793
00:39:48,118 --> 00:39:51,718
Speaker 1: back in nineteen nineteen. So to ninety seven on base

794
00:39:51,838 --> 00:39:54,598
Speaker 1: all year, eighty one games at Wrigley Field. You know,

795
00:39:54,758 --> 00:39:57,038
Speaker 1: I think that the Cubs have to keep that mind

796
00:39:57,158 --> 00:40:00,438
Speaker 1: when they look about where they're going offensively. But getting

797
00:40:00,478 --> 00:40:02,958
Speaker 1: back to my point here with Craig Council, I love

798
00:40:03,038 --> 00:40:04,998
Speaker 1: the fact that he came out and said, and this

799
00:40:05,118 --> 00:40:06,718
Speaker 1: is not a knock on the front office, just the

800
00:40:06,758 --> 00:40:10,318
Speaker 1: reality situation. We should be trying to build ninety win teams.

801
00:40:10,358 --> 00:40:12,638
Speaker 2: Here I talk about the Tampa Bay Rays.

802
00:40:12,718 --> 00:40:14,998
Speaker 3: That was our goal annually when I started there in

803
00:40:15,038 --> 00:40:18,118
Speaker 3: two thousand and six, we were horrible, seven little bit

804
00:40:18,198 --> 00:40:20,958
Speaker 3: better and then eight here we go. It was that

805
00:40:21,158 --> 00:40:23,358
Speaker 3: was the goal annually, was to win minimum ninety. We

806
00:40:23,438 --> 00:40:25,358
Speaker 3: won ninety or ninety one one year did not get

807
00:40:25,358 --> 00:40:27,158
Speaker 3: to the playoffs. I can't remember when that was, but

808
00:40:27,278 --> 00:40:30,238
Speaker 3: that was true. And I remember a reporter asking me

809
00:40:30,558 --> 00:40:32,758
Speaker 3: afterwards if this ninety win.

810
00:40:33,118 --> 00:40:34,718
Speaker 2: Mantra is overrated?

811
00:40:34,758 --> 00:40:37,558
Speaker 3: I said the moment, as a fan baser, you, as

812
00:40:37,558 --> 00:40:40,518
Speaker 3: a writer, whomever is not satisfied with a ninety or

813
00:40:40,598 --> 00:40:43,558
Speaker 3: ninety plus win team, we have to reconsider things. It's

814
00:40:44,598 --> 00:40:46,678
Speaker 3: it's not easy to win a major league game. That's

815
00:40:46,678 --> 00:40:49,358
Speaker 3: what people don't understand on a nightly basis. We always

816
00:40:49,438 --> 00:40:52,278
Speaker 3: talk about it. It's very difficult to win a major

817
00:40:52,358 --> 00:40:54,478
Speaker 3: league baseball game on a night league basis.

818
00:40:54,598 --> 00:40:55,318
Speaker 2: It really is.

819
00:40:55,798 --> 00:40:58,318
Speaker 3: When you're in a dugout, you're looking at both sides.

820
00:40:58,358 --> 00:41:01,318
Speaker 3: You know your guys feel you're looking at them. There's

821
00:41:01,358 --> 00:41:03,118
Speaker 3: a lot going into winning a major league game. So

822
00:41:03,158 --> 00:41:04,758
Speaker 3: when you're really six sus let it, you're doing a

823
00:41:04,798 --> 00:41:05,558
Speaker 3: lot of things well.

824
00:41:06,158 --> 00:41:07,238
Speaker 2: And in order to do that.

825
00:41:07,878 --> 00:41:11,998
Speaker 3: You talked about offense with the Cubbies. I'm still a

826
00:41:12,038 --> 00:41:14,478
Speaker 3: bit believer in pitching and defense. And you know, again,

827
00:41:15,278 --> 00:41:18,198
Speaker 3: the thousand innings from the starters, like this bullpen, that's

828
00:41:18,518 --> 00:41:21,158
Speaker 3: it's more rested because I'm getting more innings out of

829
00:41:21,158 --> 00:41:23,638
Speaker 3: the starters, and I want guys that can catch the baseball.

830
00:41:24,198 --> 00:41:26,398
Speaker 2: It starts there. And I know everybody you know the

831
00:41:26,478 --> 00:41:28,558
Speaker 2: home runs and this and that. I get it. I

832
00:41:28,678 --> 00:41:30,918
Speaker 2: understand home runs. You know it's one run with one swing.

833
00:41:30,998 --> 00:41:31,358
Speaker 2: I get it.

834
00:41:31,438 --> 00:41:33,598
Speaker 3: But nobody ever accounts for all the times you're in

835
00:41:33,638 --> 00:41:35,238
Speaker 3: the course of the year that you have opportunities to

836
00:41:35,238 --> 00:41:38,198
Speaker 3: score runs by in different means that you don't that's

837
00:41:38,278 --> 00:41:40,958
Speaker 3: not evaluated enough. It's not you don't evaluate what you

838
00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:42,758
Speaker 3: you could have done and did, and you only evaluate

839
00:41:42,798 --> 00:41:44,278
Speaker 3: the fact that the home run went over the fence

840
00:41:44,278 --> 00:41:47,158
Speaker 3: that we want. So there's you know this, all this stuff.

841
00:41:47,358 --> 00:41:49,918
Speaker 3: It's like any other metric you want to present. It's

842
00:41:50,318 --> 00:41:52,958
Speaker 3: whatever you want to build into it what you're looking for.

843
00:41:53,278 --> 00:41:55,038
Speaker 3: Look the answers you're looking for, you can build it

844
00:41:55,078 --> 00:41:57,238
Speaker 3: into the question and then eventually you get what you're

845
00:41:57,278 --> 00:41:59,958
Speaker 3: looking for. So I want that lex point with the Cubs.

846
00:42:00,438 --> 00:42:03,838
Speaker 3: And again, it's not just about preparation in regards to

847
00:42:04,238 --> 00:42:05,358
Speaker 3: notes and information.

848
00:42:06,238 --> 00:42:06,558
Speaker 2: It's not.

849
00:42:06,838 --> 00:42:09,318
Speaker 3: I mean, that's everybody's confused right now. What do you

850
00:42:09,398 --> 00:42:11,198
Speaker 3: do before the game in Chicago? What do you do

851
00:42:11,278 --> 00:42:13,118
Speaker 3: before the game in Chicago and day games?

852
00:42:14,158 --> 00:42:14,438
Speaker 2: Rest?

853
00:42:14,958 --> 00:42:17,238
Speaker 3: I'm telling your rest is so important was even more

854
00:42:17,278 --> 00:42:20,038
Speaker 3: important there with all the day games that they play.

855
00:42:20,398 --> 00:42:22,558
Speaker 3: There is a point of diminishing returns that set in

856
00:42:22,678 --> 00:42:25,878
Speaker 3: with being on your feet constantly, with the number of

857
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:28,838
Speaker 3: swings you take constantly, the number of ground balls you

858
00:42:28,918 --> 00:42:31,478
Speaker 3: take before the game constantly. There's a point of diminishing

859
00:42:31,558 --> 00:42:33,558
Speaker 3: returns and you got to find out what that is.

860
00:42:33,598 --> 00:42:36,638
Speaker 3: You got to find out the maximum level of that.

861
00:42:37,558 --> 00:42:39,678
Speaker 3: But you want to put your guys on a daily basis,

862
00:42:39,958 --> 00:42:43,158
Speaker 3: because after all, it's what happens at seven oh five

863
00:42:43,278 --> 00:42:43,798
Speaker 3: that matters.

864
00:42:43,878 --> 00:42:46,038
Speaker 2: Most of course, you're going to do work.

865
00:42:46,118 --> 00:42:47,678
Speaker 3: Of Course you're going to take your VP, get your

866
00:42:47,678 --> 00:42:49,918
Speaker 3: ground balls, and of course you're going to get information

867
00:42:50,038 --> 00:42:52,238
Speaker 3: about yourself and the other of course you are, but

868
00:42:52,398 --> 00:42:54,518
Speaker 3: not to the rings and the volumes that they think

869
00:42:54,638 --> 00:42:57,478
Speaker 3: is necessary. And while you're doing that, you're just wearing

870
00:42:57,558 --> 00:43:00,558
Speaker 3: people out mentally and physically. Chicago, you have to be

871
00:43:00,758 --> 00:43:04,678
Speaker 3: very aware of that. In that ballpark, there's physical factors

872
00:43:04,718 --> 00:43:06,918
Speaker 3: regarding the weather, the wind. The wind could be mentally

873
00:43:06,998 --> 00:43:09,478
Speaker 3: devastating in regards to hitters. And you're talking about on

874
00:43:09,598 --> 00:43:11,638
Speaker 3: base percentage and batting average, et cetera.

875
00:43:11,678 --> 00:43:12,118
Speaker 2: It's tough.

876
00:43:12,758 --> 00:43:15,918
Speaker 3: Wriggley is the biggest little ballpark I've ever seen outside

877
00:43:15,918 --> 00:43:19,798
Speaker 3: of Bellingham, Washington. Bellingham and the Northwest League was the

878
00:43:19,798 --> 00:43:22,598
Speaker 3: biggest little park I saw. And Vancouver the cove was

879
00:43:22,758 --> 00:43:26,678
Speaker 3: Bailey Stadium, and then there's Wrigley and they're big. They're

880
00:43:26,718 --> 00:43:29,398
Speaker 3: big even though they're little. So there's all kinds of

881
00:43:29,518 --> 00:43:31,918
Speaker 3: factors that have to be considered here, and it's not

882
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:36,398
Speaker 3: just the obvious. The road list traveled by is really

883
00:43:36,478 --> 00:43:38,918
Speaker 3: a lot more informative than the than the popular road.

884
00:43:39,278 --> 00:43:41,438
Speaker 1: I love the fact he went all Yogi on us there.

885
00:43:41,918 --> 00:43:42,878
Speaker 2: I did be welcome.

886
00:43:43,158 --> 00:43:46,598
Speaker 1: The biggest little ballpark they are they are.

887
00:43:46,678 --> 00:43:50,318
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah was it John? Was it Bailey Stadium? And yeah,

888
00:43:50,438 --> 00:43:51,438
Speaker 2: Bailey and Vancouver.

889
00:43:52,078 --> 00:43:55,158
Speaker 3: That's where that's where Garrett Anderson to me, really showed

890
00:43:55,558 --> 00:43:56,838
Speaker 3: how great of a hitter he was. It.

891
00:43:57,318 --> 00:43:58,358
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact number.

892
00:43:58,358 --> 00:44:00,198
Speaker 3: He's like almost one hundred RBIs and I think he

893
00:44:00,318 --> 00:44:03,358
Speaker 3: hit like maybe ten home runs all year because his

894
00:44:03,478 --> 00:44:06,198
Speaker 3: guy knew how to drive in a point. Harold Bains

895
00:44:06,238 --> 00:44:08,638
Speaker 3: who got to drive in a point. These guys are

896
00:44:08,718 --> 00:44:11,678
Speaker 3: really good at this stuff. So again it's we're going

897
00:44:11,758 --> 00:44:13,758
Speaker 3: to get what we want to get, whatever we perceive

898
00:44:13,878 --> 00:44:15,198
Speaker 3: to be the important thing to do. We're going to

899
00:44:15,278 --> 00:44:17,798
Speaker 3: nurture that. But while we're doing that, we're failing to

900
00:44:17,918 --> 00:44:20,598
Speaker 3: nurture these other things that we don't really necessarily evaluate

901
00:44:20,638 --> 00:44:22,678
Speaker 3: how important they can be and how they could wear

902
00:44:22,718 --> 00:44:23,518
Speaker 3: down an opposition.

903
00:44:24,198 --> 00:44:27,918
Speaker 1: Speaking of places that can make you, Joe Madden warm

904
00:44:27,958 --> 00:44:30,958
Speaker 1: and fuzzy, I can mention one place and we're going

905
00:44:31,038 --> 00:44:32,918
Speaker 1: to talk about this next on the Book of Joe.

906
00:44:33,838 --> 00:44:37,798
Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon. Yeah, yeah, I knew that would get you going.

907
00:44:37,918 --> 00:44:41,118
Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon. We lost one of the best that came

908
00:44:41,198 --> 00:44:44,158
Speaker 1: out of Laurel Canyon. We'll talk about that right after

909
00:44:44,238 --> 00:44:59,918
Speaker 1: this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the

910
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:04,558
Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcasts and Joe we lost. Jade Souther

911
00:45:04,798 --> 00:45:09,718
Speaker 1: seventy eight years old. Fantastic songwriter. He's in the Songwriting

912
00:45:09,798 --> 00:45:12,038
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. But more than that, he was one

913
00:45:12,118 --> 00:45:16,038
Speaker 1: of the main architects of those that la sound the

914
00:45:16,078 --> 00:45:20,558
Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon years, getting together with one of your greats,

915
00:45:20,678 --> 00:45:24,038
Speaker 1: Lynda Ronstadt and in fact lived together dated for a

916
00:45:24,158 --> 00:45:28,158
Speaker 1: long time. Best known for his songwriting with the Eagles,

917
00:45:28,598 --> 00:45:30,838
Speaker 1: JD Souther' is seventy eight years old. How about this

918
00:45:30,998 --> 00:45:35,238
Speaker 1: at one time. He's living with Lynn Ronstadt and it's

919
00:45:35,318 --> 00:45:38,398
Speaker 1: up in the Hollywood Hills and his neighbors are Jackson

920
00:45:38,478 --> 00:45:43,078
Speaker 1: Brown and Don Henley. I mean, you think about the

921
00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:46,238
Speaker 1: collaborations and the songs that JD. Souther wrote and the

922
00:45:46,318 --> 00:45:49,798
Speaker 1: greatness that came out of this very small area in

923
00:45:50,198 --> 00:45:54,518
Speaker 1: LA and it defined the sound not just of southern California,

924
00:45:54,598 --> 00:45:57,798
Speaker 1: but really of this country. It was an American sound

925
00:45:57,918 --> 00:46:02,478
Speaker 1: that came out of there, and JD. Souther, a wordsmith musician,

926
00:46:03,118 --> 00:46:03,838
Speaker 1: was a huge part of it.

927
00:46:04,238 --> 00:46:06,158
Speaker 3: Did or even start on that. I mean, first of all,

928
00:46:06,158 --> 00:46:07,998
Speaker 3: I want to take the cal State Fullerton. That's my

929
00:46:08,158 --> 00:46:09,878
Speaker 3: ban and I want to drive it up there one day.

930
00:46:09,958 --> 00:46:11,278
Speaker 3: I never did that while I was out there, and

931
00:46:11,318 --> 00:46:16,198
Speaker 3: that's my mistake. But that there is a great documentary.

932
00:46:16,198 --> 00:46:18,918
Speaker 3: I can't remember where I saw it, but among the

933
00:46:18,958 --> 00:46:23,198
Speaker 3: streaming devices there's a Laurel Canyon edition that's fabulous and

934
00:46:24,078 --> 00:46:27,838
Speaker 3: right down to Graham Nash and Joni Mitchell and all

935
00:46:27,918 --> 00:46:30,958
Speaker 3: the all the ones that hung out up there. But listen,

936
00:46:30,998 --> 00:46:32,758
Speaker 3: if you get to hang out with Linda Ronstat back

937
00:46:32,798 --> 00:46:33,998
Speaker 3: in the day, God bless him.

938
00:46:34,518 --> 00:46:35,678
Speaker 2: He's my idol. Well.

939
00:46:35,718 --> 00:46:38,118
Speaker 1: He also dated Stevie Nicks and Jody Mitchell.

940
00:46:38,318 --> 00:46:42,678
Speaker 3: I'll take I'll take Linda anyway. The thing that really

941
00:46:42,758 --> 00:46:46,758
Speaker 3: again stands out to me is the struggle. I mean,

942
00:46:47,118 --> 00:46:49,998
Speaker 3: that's nobody knew who these guys were back in the day.

943
00:46:50,398 --> 00:46:51,918
Speaker 3: They had to earn the right to get out of

944
00:46:51,998 --> 00:46:55,358
Speaker 3: Laurel Canyon, or probably originally to be able to afford

945
00:46:55,398 --> 00:46:59,358
Speaker 3: Laurel Canyon. But from from there sprung all these thoughts

946
00:46:59,398 --> 00:47:03,038
Speaker 3: and ideas like our house, I guess. Graham Nash wrote

947
00:47:03,078 --> 00:47:06,998
Speaker 3: that one day which Mitchell after they had gone to

948
00:47:07,118 --> 00:47:09,358
Speaker 3: a shop, some kind of a shop down in town

949
00:47:09,518 --> 00:47:13,918
Speaker 3: or whatever, and they bought some kind of devas that

950
00:47:14,038 --> 00:47:16,638
Speaker 3: brought it on back and a song.

951
00:47:16,638 --> 00:47:17,118
Speaker 2: Is born of that.

952
00:47:17,198 --> 00:47:19,598
Speaker 3: I mean, the creativity is ridiculous, But do you have

953
00:47:19,678 --> 00:47:23,158
Speaker 3: to struggle to be creative? You know, you just things

954
00:47:23,278 --> 00:47:28,238
Speaker 3: just handed to stifles creativity, stifles your ability your imagination

955
00:47:28,398 --> 00:47:31,798
Speaker 3: to spring forward. When you're just giving information without you

956
00:47:31,918 --> 00:47:36,518
Speaker 3: having to really dig yourself and find this information.

957
00:47:36,638 --> 00:47:37,838
Speaker 2: You don't learn it, you don't know it.

958
00:47:37,998 --> 00:47:40,558
Speaker 3: You don't you don't know it, You're just you're just

959
00:47:40,678 --> 00:47:42,878
Speaker 3: repeating it. And that, to me is one of the

960
00:47:42,918 --> 00:47:46,798
Speaker 3: problems today. You need to earn what you know you know,

961
00:47:46,878 --> 00:47:49,118
Speaker 3: you just people think they know things, but no, no, no,

962
00:47:49,158 --> 00:47:53,478
Speaker 3: they're just regurgitating things. So I love the Laurel Canyon concept. Man,

963
00:47:53,518 --> 00:47:55,678
Speaker 3: I'm watching that thing. And you think about all the

964
00:47:55,758 --> 00:47:58,278
Speaker 3: days in the minor leagues. You think about staying up

965
00:47:58,318 --> 00:48:01,398
Speaker 3: and creating forms for the spring training in nineteen ninety

966
00:48:01,478 --> 00:48:03,678
Speaker 3: five when it was the replacement group and then the

967
00:48:04,118 --> 00:48:05,398
Speaker 3: group and how that worked out.

968
00:48:06,038 --> 00:48:07,238
Speaker 2: You think about, you know, your.

969
00:48:07,158 --> 00:48:12,838
Speaker 3: Times on the roads scouting, driving from Arizona to Utah

970
00:48:13,038 --> 00:48:17,438
Speaker 3: to Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico and back with Jimmy driscoll.

971
00:48:17,598 --> 00:48:20,598
Speaker 2: Because and you have no money. I mean, you have

972
00:48:20,718 --> 00:48:22,518
Speaker 2: no money, You have nobody, So how do I do this?

973
00:48:23,238 --> 00:48:24,718
Speaker 2: And you do it? You do it.

974
00:48:24,798 --> 00:48:26,358
Speaker 3: You look back and God, I don't know how he

975
00:48:26,398 --> 00:48:28,838
Speaker 3: did that, but you did that. The struggle is important.

976
00:48:28,878 --> 00:48:31,638
Speaker 3: Spending times in the minor league is important. Writing buses

977
00:48:31,758 --> 00:48:36,118
Speaker 3: is important. To just be handed information to look at

978
00:48:36,798 --> 00:48:41,198
Speaker 3: and think as though that you then are accomplished and

979
00:48:41,798 --> 00:48:42,278
Speaker 3: really know it.

980
00:48:42,358 --> 00:48:44,958
Speaker 2: It's not true, it's not true. You have to earn that.

981
00:48:45,198 --> 00:48:45,558
Speaker 2: You have to.

982
00:48:45,798 --> 00:48:48,398
Speaker 3: You have to be kind of broke, you kind of

983
00:48:48,438 --> 00:48:50,878
Speaker 3: have to lay awake at night worrying about stuff in

984
00:48:51,038 --> 00:48:53,478
Speaker 3: order to really earn the right to be creative and

985
00:48:53,558 --> 00:48:56,278
Speaker 3: have your imagination spring forward and then and then you

986
00:48:56,438 --> 00:48:57,638
Speaker 3: write songs like J. D.

987
00:48:57,798 --> 00:48:58,118
Speaker 2: Salder.

988
00:48:58,998 --> 00:49:01,478
Speaker 3: Linda Ronstadt not a songwriter as much, but my god,

989
00:49:01,598 --> 00:49:04,158
Speaker 3: she made everything her own. I was a big fan

990
00:49:04,278 --> 00:49:07,958
Speaker 3: of Crosby Stills, Nashcribery, still Snashing Young and you could

991
00:49:07,998 --> 00:49:10,398
Speaker 3: go on and on with all the different people that

992
00:49:10,558 --> 00:49:12,958
Speaker 3: lived in that canyon, the creativity. And I was a

993
00:49:13,118 --> 00:49:16,358
Speaker 3: big huge Jackson Brown family in my roommate Doc Lines

994
00:49:16,398 --> 00:49:18,158
Speaker 3: we passed away a couple of years ago. We'd love

995
00:49:18,238 --> 00:49:22,918
Speaker 3: the Pretender when that came out, everything that those lyrics meant, so, yeah,

996
00:49:23,318 --> 00:49:26,718
Speaker 3: huge part of my growing up. Nineteen seventy six Man

997
00:49:26,798 --> 00:49:29,638
Speaker 3: Park right out front cal State Fullerton and what that

998
00:49:29,798 --> 00:49:32,518
Speaker 3: means to me, and what nineteen seventy six meant to

999
00:49:32,598 --> 00:49:35,358
Speaker 3: me as regards to my first year in minor league baseball.

1000
00:49:35,478 --> 00:49:36,598
Speaker 2: There needs to be more of this.

1001
00:49:37,278 --> 00:49:40,478
Speaker 3: The struggle is good and actually I don't even know

1002
00:49:40,518 --> 00:49:41,878
Speaker 3: if I have That was the quote of the day,

1003
00:49:41,958 --> 00:49:44,478
Speaker 3: one of them. Wow, the struggle is a good thing.

1004
00:49:44,518 --> 00:49:46,478
Speaker 3: We'd write about that in the book. And that's what

1005
00:49:46,558 --> 00:49:47,918
Speaker 3: Laurel Canyon represents to me.

1006
00:49:48,478 --> 00:49:52,278
Speaker 1: Well, if you love the Eagles. Thank Linda Ronstett. She

1007
00:49:52,478 --> 00:49:55,958
Speaker 1: made that ban possible. She's the one with j D.

1008
00:49:56,158 --> 00:49:59,958
Speaker 1: Salther who brought in Don Henley and Glenn Frye as

1009
00:50:00,078 --> 00:50:03,838
Speaker 1: backup players in her band, and from that sprung the Eagle.

1010
00:50:05,038 --> 00:50:09,038
Speaker 1: And actually Joe in talking about the struggle, I think

1011
00:50:09,118 --> 00:50:12,038
Speaker 1: about what gets you through, and what gets you through

1012
00:50:12,158 --> 00:50:15,238
Speaker 1: most of all to me is passion where failure doesn't

1013
00:50:15,278 --> 00:50:18,358
Speaker 1: stop you, but it challenges you because there's something in

1014
00:50:18,478 --> 00:50:21,278
Speaker 1: your heart that says, I love doing this and I'm

1015
00:50:21,358 --> 00:50:24,638
Speaker 1: going to continue. I will not be stopped by failure.

1016
00:50:24,758 --> 00:50:27,358
Speaker 1: And I think about all the greats who have to

1017
00:50:27,478 --> 00:50:31,878
Speaker 1: go through that. People weren't born as has made products,

1018
00:50:31,918 --> 00:50:34,358
Speaker 1: has finished products. Everybody has to get there, even the

1019
00:50:34,398 --> 00:50:37,318
Speaker 1: most talented, even the sho Heyo Tanis of the world. Joe,

1020
00:50:37,398 --> 00:50:41,038
Speaker 1: you saw him struggle with the angels. What gets you through,

1021
00:50:41,558 --> 00:50:44,278
Speaker 1: it's the passion of it. And that's that's JD. Souther

1022
00:50:44,438 --> 00:50:46,838
Speaker 1: And it's also knowing yourself too. It's a great story

1023
00:50:46,838 --> 00:50:50,278
Speaker 1: about JD. Souther. I mean he wrote the songs Best

1024
00:50:50,358 --> 00:50:54,678
Speaker 1: of My Love, James Dean, New Kid in Town, Heartache, Tonight,

1025
00:50:54,798 --> 00:50:57,398
Speaker 1: on and on and on it and for others as well,

1026
00:50:57,598 --> 00:51:02,198
Speaker 1: not just James Taylor, not just the Eagles, but when

1027
00:51:02,238 --> 00:51:05,358
Speaker 1: that Eagles band was forming and there was one gig

1028
00:51:05,438 --> 00:51:07,798
Speaker 1: that were playing and they invited him to join the band,

1029
00:51:08,078 --> 00:51:09,998
Speaker 1: he would have been part of the Eagles, and he

1030
00:51:10,078 --> 00:51:13,878
Speaker 1: said no thanks. And the reason he said no thanks was,

1031
00:51:14,118 --> 00:51:16,798
Speaker 1: first of all, he enjoyed writing. He said, I'll keep

1032
00:51:16,798 --> 00:51:18,878
Speaker 1: writing songs for you. But he said, this is a

1033
00:51:18,958 --> 00:51:22,518
Speaker 1: fully formed group right now, and I actually like the

1034
00:51:22,638 --> 00:51:26,118
Speaker 1: fact that I can go about my ways. I'm not

1035
00:51:26,278 --> 00:51:29,998
Speaker 1: a rock star and I'm not recognized. You know, when

1036
00:51:29,998 --> 00:51:33,758
Speaker 1: I write these songs, the checks are still cashed. But

1037
00:51:33,918 --> 00:51:36,198
Speaker 1: everything else that comes with it, I don't need and

1038
00:51:36,278 --> 00:51:40,318
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want. He did later on have a solo career,

1039
00:51:40,398 --> 00:51:44,198
Speaker 1: a successful one at that, but being true to himself,

1040
00:51:44,678 --> 00:51:47,238
Speaker 1: he turned down the opportunity to be part of that band.

1041
00:51:47,358 --> 00:51:49,438
Speaker 1: It just didn't suit who he was and what he

1042
00:51:49,558 --> 00:51:53,598
Speaker 1: loved most was being behind the scenes as a songwriter

1043
00:51:53,718 --> 00:51:54,278
Speaker 1: a musician.

1044
00:51:54,478 --> 00:51:57,638
Speaker 3: That's beautiful. I wish i'd met him and an him,

1045
00:51:57,678 --> 00:52:02,038
Speaker 3: and he has its benefits. I saw that firsthand before

1046
00:52:02,038 --> 00:52:03,998
Speaker 3: I became a manager, be getting off a bus at

1047
00:52:04,038 --> 00:52:08,518
Speaker 3: three o'clock in the morning somewhere and you know, obviously

1048
00:52:08,678 --> 00:52:12,398
Speaker 3: there was actually autograph seekers at that point, and then

1049
00:52:12,558 --> 00:52:14,238
Speaker 3: I'd get off the bus and you just walk right

1050
00:52:14,278 --> 00:52:17,198
Speaker 3: into the hotel room. So at that point I really

1051
00:52:17,598 --> 00:52:22,038
Speaker 3: developed that thought that anonymity has its benefits. But you know,

1052
00:52:22,638 --> 00:52:27,878
Speaker 3: the incredible talent that he had, and how about the

1053
00:52:27,958 --> 00:52:29,038
Speaker 3: fact that he got to hang out with.

1054
00:52:29,038 --> 00:52:30,478
Speaker 2: Linda Ronstadt back in the day.

1055
00:52:30,598 --> 00:52:32,078
Speaker 3: When I got to the Angels, I knew she was

1056
00:52:32,118 --> 00:52:34,438
Speaker 3: from Tucson, and I didn't know any better, but asked,

1057
00:52:34,478 --> 00:52:36,158
Speaker 3: I said, I asked, already already, do you know Linda

1058
00:52:36,238 --> 00:52:39,398
Speaker 3: Ronstad is already opened Tucson Because I've always wanted to

1059
00:52:39,398 --> 00:52:40,838
Speaker 3: meet her, and I watch her right now. I know

1060
00:52:40,958 --> 00:52:45,838
Speaker 3: she's inflicted with Parkinson's and there's some great, great documentaries

1061
00:52:45,918 --> 00:52:48,838
Speaker 3: out there about her on streaming right now that I

1062
00:52:48,878 --> 00:52:54,198
Speaker 3: would encourage everybody to watch and listen to and get

1063
00:52:54,238 --> 00:52:58,278
Speaker 3: a good sound system for that will benable with these

1064
00:52:58,638 --> 00:53:01,598
Speaker 3: bench coach now, I think with the Rangers, right we

1065
00:53:01,678 --> 00:53:03,318
Speaker 3: were talking and he asked me about my favorite.

1066
00:53:03,318 --> 00:53:05,878
Speaker 2: I said, listen, you need to listen to her. Linda

1067
00:53:05,958 --> 00:53:07,558
Speaker 2: ron said, I got three favorites.

1068
00:53:07,838 --> 00:53:10,838
Speaker 3: Ever, she's one of the three Lady Gaga, and I

1069
00:53:10,918 --> 00:53:14,478
Speaker 3: thought before that was Ron's dad before I mean, excuse.

1070
00:53:14,198 --> 00:53:17,358
Speaker 2: Me streisand before Ronstadt. So I told him about Linda Ronstad.

1071
00:53:17,438 --> 00:53:20,438
Speaker 2: He came back, he said, wow, you were absolutely right.

1072
00:53:20,918 --> 00:53:22,798
Speaker 1: Well, I like that as the quot of the day,

1073
00:53:23,118 --> 00:53:26,238
Speaker 1: and and him and he has its benefits. But I know, Joe,

1074
00:53:26,358 --> 00:53:30,918
Speaker 1: you always come prepared with something new for us. Actually old,

1075
00:53:31,638 --> 00:53:34,318
Speaker 1: it sounds new. That's the beauty of wisdom, right, no

1076
00:53:34,398 --> 00:53:36,438
Speaker 1: matter how old you hear it for the first time,

1077
00:53:36,558 --> 00:53:40,798
Speaker 1: a new generation says, wow, that makes sense. So what

1078
00:53:40,878 --> 00:53:42,718
Speaker 1: do you got for us to end this edition of

1079
00:53:42,918 --> 00:53:43,558
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

1080
00:53:43,838 --> 00:53:45,798
Speaker 3: Well, it took us all way to the end to

1081
00:53:45,878 --> 00:53:49,558
Speaker 3: really it fits so so well. I had a couple

1082
00:53:49,718 --> 00:53:51,558
Speaker 3: I was I went with this this one, but I

1083
00:53:51,598 --> 00:53:54,918
Speaker 3: also had something by my man, Wayne Dyer. I read

1084
00:53:54,998 --> 00:53:57,478
Speaker 3: this book years ago. You'll see it when you believe it,

1085
00:53:58,078 --> 00:53:59,758
Speaker 3: And I tell my players that all the time. You'll

1086
00:53:59,758 --> 00:54:01,638
Speaker 3: see it when you believe it. You have to believe

1087
00:54:01,678 --> 00:54:07,118
Speaker 3: in yourself to really become champions. May all your surrealisms

1088
00:54:07,158 --> 00:54:10,238
Speaker 3: come true. All those things really based on this book

1089
00:54:10,358 --> 00:54:13,518
Speaker 3: right here. And he talks about when you judge another person,

1090
00:54:14,118 --> 00:54:16,598
Speaker 3: you do not define him or her, You define yourself

1091
00:54:16,638 --> 00:54:20,038
Speaker 3: and I've used that so many times when the judgmental

1092
00:54:20,078 --> 00:54:22,478
Speaker 3: people of the world. And that's not to say you're

1093
00:54:22,558 --> 00:54:24,918
Speaker 3: teaching or being you know, critical in a way, you're

1094
00:54:24,958 --> 00:54:28,158
Speaker 3: trying to help somebody, but the judgmental group that kind

1095
00:54:28,158 --> 00:54:30,718
Speaker 3: of like wants to put down and has kind of

1096
00:54:30,718 --> 00:54:34,038
Speaker 3: an elitist component of the whole thing. When you judge

1097
00:54:34,078 --> 00:54:36,318
Speaker 3: another person, you do not define him or her, You

1098
00:54:36,398 --> 00:54:39,758
Speaker 3: define yourself. That was number one, but actually that was

1099
00:54:39,838 --> 00:54:41,998
Speaker 3: number two. Number one was this and out because of

1100
00:54:42,038 --> 00:54:45,758
Speaker 3: the JD. Souther little vignette there is this absolutely applies

1101
00:54:45,798 --> 00:54:48,198
Speaker 3: and it says, Okay, I don't know where this came

1102
00:54:48,238 --> 00:54:51,438
Speaker 3: from specifically, but I'm grateful to all those people who

1103
00:54:51,518 --> 00:54:53,638
Speaker 3: said no, it is because of them.

1104
00:54:53,838 --> 00:54:56,158
Speaker 2: I did it myself. Period.

1105
00:54:56,718 --> 00:55:00,878
Speaker 1: Wonderful, wonderful advice and for anybody in any walk of life,

1106
00:55:01,518 --> 00:55:01,798
Speaker 1: love it.

1107
00:55:01,918 --> 00:55:02,518
Speaker 2: That's Joe.

1108
00:55:02,558 --> 00:55:04,918
Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun. This was a great addition.

1109
00:55:05,358 --> 00:55:07,678
Speaker 1: As I said, we could talk about show Hey all

1110
00:55:07,758 --> 00:55:10,998
Speaker 1: day every day, but the next time we talk, we'll

1111
00:55:11,038 --> 00:55:15,238
Speaker 1: be talking postseason baseball. Cool it is coming up next week,

1112
00:55:15,598 --> 00:55:17,798
Speaker 1: So make sure you come back here to the Book

1113
00:55:17,878 --> 00:55:21,038
Speaker 1: of Joe to listen to me. Tom Verducci and Joe

1114
00:55:21,158 --> 00:55:24,118
Speaker 1: Medden and we will be breaking down the postseason baseball

1115
00:55:24,238 --> 00:55:26,678
Speaker 1: for you. Awesome. Joe had a lot of fun today.

1116
00:55:26,798 --> 00:55:28,318
Speaker 2: Thank you, Buddy. Way to push my buttons.

1117
00:55:38,078 --> 00:55:41,278
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1118
00:55:41,518 --> 00:55:46,358
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1119
00:55:46,638 --> 00:55:48,358
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.