1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Hi, This is newt Twenty twenty is going to be 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: one of the most extraordinary election years of our lifetime. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: I want to invite you to join my Inner Circle 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: as we discuss each twist and turn in the presidential race. 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: In my members only Inner Circle Club, you'll receive special 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: flash briefings, online events, and members only audio reports from 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: me and my team. Here is a special offer for 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: my podcast listeners. Join my Inner Circle today at Newtcentercircle 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast, and if you sign up for 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: a one or two year membership, you'll get ten percent 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: off your membership price and a VIP fast pass to 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: my live events. Join my Inner Circle today at Newtcenter 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Circle dot com slash podcast use the Code podcast at checkout. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Sign up today at Newtcenter Circle dot com slash podcast 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: and use the Code podcast Hurry this Offtway Spires February fourteenth. 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: Cokee Roberts was a colleague, a friend, and a respected 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: journalist and author. I've known her personally since she began 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: covering Capitol Hill for National Public Radio in nineteen seventy eight. 19 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: Cokee passed away this week at the age of seventy 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: five from complications involving breast cancer. I will miss her, 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: as I think virtually everybody who cares about civility and 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: decency in Washington will miss Cokeie. She was born Mary 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: Martha Corinne Morrison Claybourne Boggs. Even by New Orleans standards, 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: that is quite a name. She's borne back on December 25 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: twenty seventh, nineteen forty three. With all those names. She 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: got the name Cokey from her older brother because he 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: couldn't pronounce Corinne, and he dubbed her Cokeie, and it's stuck. 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Her parents were members of Congress. Hale Boggs was the 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Democratic whipp tragically lost in their plan crash in Alaska. 30 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: He was succeeded in Congress by Lyndy Boggs. His wife, 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: COKEI is survived by her husband of fifty three years, journalist, 32 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: author and professor, Steve Roberts, her children, Leah Roberts and 33 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: Rebecca Roberts, and her six grandchildren. Cookie was first and 34 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: foremost a wife, mother, sister, daughter, aunt, cousin and friend. 35 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: And then she was a great career newsperson who really 36 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: helped shape much of modern journalism. In her career, she's 37 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: been referred to as a founding mother for paving the 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: way for women journalists across the industry. On this episode 39 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: of News World, we are re airing the episode we 40 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: recorded with Cokeie for Mother's Day about her book, Founding Mothers. 41 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: On this episode and its World for Mother's Day, I 42 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: invited Cokee Roberts to join me to talk about her 43 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: wonderful book, Founding Mothers, the Women who raised our Nation. 44 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: Cokee and I have known each other for many years. 45 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: We first met when I came to Congress and Cokee 46 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: covered me for NPR. That was forty one years ago. 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: In her more than forty years in broadcasting, she's won 48 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: countless awards, including three Emmys. She has also been inducted 49 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: into the Broadcasting and Cable Hall of Fame. She is 50 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: currently a commentator for Morning Edition one NPR and a 51 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: contributor to ABC News. We both share a passion for 52 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: the history of the founding of our nation and a 53 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: passion for this process of democratic self government. I'm really 54 00:03:48,200 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome her as my guest Cookie. It's wonderful 55 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: to still be friends after four decades. One of the 56 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: things that binds us that most people don't know about 57 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: is that not only is my wife, Callista an ambassador 58 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: to the Vatican, but your mother, who was probably the 59 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: most beloved ambassador that the US has sent. When we 60 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: talk to people about her, it's just amazing the response 61 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: to Lindy Bogg's name, the fact that she came over. 62 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: I think she was eighty when she came over. She 63 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: broke her leg and went to every reception anyway, and 64 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: I think the Pope may have been the same age. 65 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: And she and John Paul just got together so beautifully 66 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: that literally today we'll go places and people will reminisce. 67 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: So I'm curious as the daughter, what was it I 68 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: noticed like as the husband, but as the daughter, what 69 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: was it like to go and visit Mom at the Vatican. 70 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: First of all, it's a treat to be talking to 71 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: you nude, and it was terrific. It was wonderful. First 72 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: of all, I love her all, but secondly, I loved 73 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: watching her operate. You know, people feel that political appointments 74 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: are not as somehow worthy as foreign service appointments to 75 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: ambassadorial post. And I'm sure there's some places where that 76 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: might be the case, and some people where that might 77 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: be the case. But it really made a difference to 78 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: have a politician there with my mother. She was the 79 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: first woman to be an ambassador to the Vatican, and 80 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: she was, as you well know, such a savvy politician 81 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: and such a charming person that she basically just had 82 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: them all ready to do pretty much anything she wanted. 83 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: And it was an important time because there were some 84 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: things coming out of the Vatican that we're not going 85 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: to work well for American education, and the fact that 86 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: she was there and was able to explain things like 87 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: federal funding for higher education made a big difference. But 88 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: she also, as you have learned from others who you've 89 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: talked to, she just charmed them. They loved being around 90 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: her as anybody would. You know. It's interesting because as 91 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: a two Lane graduate, I came to realize that New 92 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: Orleans teaches a certain style and a certain approach that's 93 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: so very human, and your mom sort of personified that 94 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: kind of tradition. Literally today, even today, people still speak 95 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: as though it was only yesterday morning that she was there. 96 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: That's nice to hear. That's very nice to hear. She 97 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: loved people, and she loved the church, and the fact 98 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: that she was able to have that wonderful appointment in 99 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: her eighties where she could have a capstone to a 100 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: career in public service, serving both her country and her church. 101 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: It was something that was very very special. So let 102 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: me move on to other mothers. Although your mother certainly 103 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: was a remarkable and a good example of being a 104 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: patriot and a parent simultaneously. But you wrote this remarkable book, 105 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: Founding Mothers, which I thought was a very clever insight 106 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: in her part. After all of the Founding Father's stuff, 107 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: I'm curious, one, did it strike you that there's a 108 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: really very interesting book here and that you ought to 109 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: tackle it. Well, you know, in a way, it really 110 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: does go back to my mother, because when I was 111 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: growing up in Washington, my father was in Congress, and 112 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: this was the nineteen fifties, and I saw the tremendous 113 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: influence of the congressional wives. This was people like Betty 114 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: Ford and Ladybird Johnson and Pauline Gore. They were very, 115 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: very involved in politics and very involved in the life 116 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: of the community. It was before home rule in Washington, 117 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: so they worked with the African American women here to 118 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: run all the social service agencies, and they ran campaigns 119 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: and voter registration tribes, the conventions, and their husband's offices, 120 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: and of course they ran us kids, and so I 121 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: knew how incredibly influential they were. And of course, as 122 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: somebody who's covered Congress and politics as long as I have, 123 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 1: I got to be as you are, on a first 124 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: name basis with the Founding Fathers, because you go back 125 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: to them all the time as references, you know, and 126 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: as you well know they are referred to, usually incorrectly. 127 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: You need to see what they actually did say about 128 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: religion in the public square, or the right to bear arms, 129 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: or why somebody has to be born in America to 130 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: be president and all those things. And as I got 131 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: to know that period better and better, I got very 132 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: curious about the women of the era, figuring they had 133 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: to be at least as influential as the women of 134 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: my era. And I went back to read about them 135 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: and found I couldn't. With the exception of a couple 136 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: of good biographies of Abigail Adams, there really wasn't anything there. Now, 137 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: in the years since Founding Mothers came out, which was 138 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, there have been some good biographies 139 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: of Dolly Madison and Martha Washington, but that was not 140 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: true at the time and still pathetically sparse when it 141 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: comes to a lot of the other women. So it 142 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: really started me on a career, a whole new career 143 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: in my life of writing history. And I followed Founding 144 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: Mothers with Ladies of Liberty about the early Republic, and 145 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: then Capital Dames about the Civil War, and now I'm 146 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: writing a suffrage book. So these are important times in 147 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: our history where women were making a huge contribution and 148 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: have been unheralded and unknown, And I just feel like 149 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: you can't write an accurate history if you leave out 150 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: half of the human race. Wanted it hit you that 151 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: you had found an entire second career. I think it's 152 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: interesting for people to realize that, you know, life often 153 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: occur from angles you didn't quite expect, so in case, 154 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: from your standpoint, when did you send you realize, gosh, 155 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: this is so interesting and it's so useful that I'm 156 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: going to keep being a historian. I know that's that's 157 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: a very interesting question. And I can't PenPoint it, of course, 158 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: because again something that you've done. The fact is is 159 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: that people start accepting you into kind of the world 160 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: of history, and it gets more and more interesting as 161 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: you learn more and more about it. At one point, 162 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: before i'd ever even written a book, a history book, 163 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: I said to my husband, I said, you know what 164 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: I'd really like to do is just sit and read history. 165 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: And he said, well, nobody's going to pay you to 166 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: do that. And that's true. You actually have to write 167 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: it after you read it to get paid. But it 168 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: is something that I've enjoyed all of my life. But 169 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: to really make it a second career really came about 170 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: it a little bit slowly, and at first sort of 171 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: professional historians were skeptical of this mere journalists stepping into 172 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: their turf. But then as they saw that I really 173 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: was serious and that the research was very solid research, 174 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: I became more and more part of that community, and 175 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed it enormously. You're terrific on air talent, and 176 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: your ability both on radio and on television has been remarkable. 177 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: But I'm curious, as you point out, and I'm like 178 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: you in the sense I love reading, but then eventually 179 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: you have to turn and you have to write. How 180 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: did you find the writing process? Well? I was very 181 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: lucky because I was raised by nuns, and the nuns 182 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: who taught me the religious and the Sacred Heart were 183 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: just insistent that you write and write and write, and 184 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: so I've always written. I've always been a good writer, 185 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: so I wasn't afraid of writing. But of course I can. 186 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: As you know, it's hard work, you know, it requires 187 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: a great deal of discipline, it's lonely, and you just 188 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: have to keep doing it until it's done. It's like 189 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: a paper versus an exam. That is not easy, but 190 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: it's incredibly satisfying once it's done. That's sort of my 191 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: experience with you. You look back and you think, wow, 192 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: that actually worked out. So you start out and you 193 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: do all this research. I'm curious before we get into 194 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: individual women, what was the biggest surprise when you were 195 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: writing this first book on founding mothers. What's the thing 196 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: where you've done and said, wow, I really hadn't thought 197 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: of that. I really it makes me think differently. I 198 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: was surprised at how deeply political they were. You know, 199 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: I knew about Abigail Adams writing to John Adams, and 200 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: of course you're famous, remember the ladies, But I really 201 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: didn't realize how they were all engaged in politics and 202 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: they were such patriots here they were suffering all of 203 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: the hardships of the revolution and the pre revolution of 204 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: their husband's went off to the continental because nobody was 205 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: paying them. Many of them were in danger, and they 206 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: still really believed in this cause. And you know, just 207 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: getting through the day in the eighteenth century was hard. 208 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: You'd have these women to think about it. They sometimes 209 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: lose two children in a week. It was horrible. But 210 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: then they would still sit up at night and write 211 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: letters about what seemed important to them, about the new 212 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,479 Speaker 1: nation that they wanted to see form. It's just remarkable 213 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: how dedicated they were and how knowledgeable they were. And 214 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: that really was a big surprise when you were going 215 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: through this and you write about it. You know several 216 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: really fascinating people. Did one of them sort of catch 217 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: your heart? Is the one that you found I really 218 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: like her. I'd really if you had a choice, if 219 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: you had a chance to go to dinner, she'd be 220 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the one you'd like to go hang out with. Well, 221 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: I think Sally Livingston Jay would be the person you'd 222 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: like to have dinner. She was the wife of John Jay, 223 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: who eventually became our first Chief Justice, but she was 224 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: off with him in Spain and France and her family, 225 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: the Livingstons, were deeply political, and her father, who was 226 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: the first Patriot governor of New Jersey, had this bunch 227 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: of girls, and he was very he He didn't seem 228 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: to have any sense that girls couldn't do what boys 229 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: could do, and so he gave them all responsible jobs 230 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: and treated them as serious people. So she wrote these 231 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: fabulous letters back from her journeys that were very, very funny, 232 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: So you get a sense of her as as somebody 233 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: you'd really like to spend time with. And apparently she 234 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: was also a great hostess, so she would be the 235 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: person you'd want to have dinner with. But then there 236 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: are others that you'd kind of like to interview nude, 237 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, mercy Otis Warren, who was probably too serious 238 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: for my taste, but she was an interesting philosopher and 239 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: a very important propagandist for the Patriot cause. I'd like 240 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: to do a TV interview with her, but I probably 241 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: would for not to have dinner with her. That's great. 242 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: You know, written a number of books about Washington, and 243 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: we did a documentary called The First American about him, 244 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: and I'm really always struck with how central Martha was 245 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: to his sense of well being, how important it was 246 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: that she would come to Valley Forge, how much she 247 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: was in a sense that even when she was back 248 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: at Mount Vernon and he was in the field, there 249 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: was still a sense of intimacy which we can't fully 250 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: capture because she burned all of their personal letters. I 251 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: know I could kill her all over again for doing that, 252 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: But the Ladies Association Aunt has put peace together a 253 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: lot of her life, particularly from other people. She didn't 254 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: just go to Valley Forge. She would to camp every 255 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: single winter of the eight long years of the Revolutionary War. 256 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: And she went because Washington thought that his wife was 257 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: essential to troop morale. There were periods when the troops 258 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: were unpaid, unclothed, unsheltered, threatening desertion by regiment, and she 259 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: would arrive at camp and they would cheer her in, 260 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: Lady Washington is here. And she would bring foodstuff, some 261 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: cloths that had been made at Mount Vernon over the summer, 262 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: one of the many contributions of African Americans to the revolution. 263 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: And she and the other officers wives would cook for 264 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: the soldiers and sew for the soldiers, and pray with 265 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: the soldiers, and nurse the soldiers and put on great 266 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: entertainments for them and just keep them happy, keep them 267 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: in camp. And the letters about their affection for her 268 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: are just remarkable. And then after the war, when she 269 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: became the first first Lady in and had a very 270 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: difficult role to try to forge, veterans would come and 271 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: visit with her because they had all gotten to know 272 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: her during the war. And in that very first Congress 273 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: she lobbied for veterans benefits for Revolutionary war veterans because 274 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: she had been a camp with them. It's remarkable in 275 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: that sense. I always try to remind people when they 276 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: complain about the challenges of modern politics that Washington spent 277 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: all but two weeks of an eight year period in 278 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: the field, and in a sense, her coming to him 279 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: and being with him, I think made it possible for 280 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: him to sustain his own morale, not just the morale 281 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: of the troops. I think that's absolutely right. It was 282 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: a good thing she was on hand because he could 283 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: be flirty. There was one dance where he danced for 284 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: three hours straight with the very flirtatious and pretty Catherine 285 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: Littlefield Green, the wife of Nathaniel Green. So it's a 286 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: good thing Martha was on hand because we see the 287 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: older Washington as president, we don't realize how energetic and 288 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: how good looking and how capable he was. He was 289 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: a hunk, he was totally and the fact of his 290 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: good looks and his presence made a huge difference in 291 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: his leadership. It really made people sort of sit up 292 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: and pay attention to him, and he was well aware 293 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: of that. He also remembered that he almost quits after 294 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: the first term because the news media is attacking Martha 295 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: for having high tea. And I think it's a sense 296 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: of his sensitivity to her that he was just infuriated 297 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: than anybody after everything she had done for the cause 298 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: of freedom, that anybody would criticize her well. And of course, again, 299 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, people think that this partisanship we're living through 300 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: is something recent. Of course it had already started by then. 301 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: And the only thing that Hamilton and Madison could agree 302 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: on is that Washington to run for a second term, 303 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: and he really didn't want to do it. The election 304 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: was in December, and in November he had tea with 305 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: Eliza pal a woman who was very influential and federalist 306 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: politics in Philadelphia, and she was a good friend of his, 307 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 1: and he said he wasn't going to run again. She 308 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: wrote him a letter basically saying, you have to run again, 309 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: and she called on a sense of patriotism and a 310 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: sense of history and a sense of duty. But then 311 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: she did refer to his looks, basically saying, your mere 312 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: presence is calculated to inspire confidence in the American people. 313 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: And of course by appealing to his pride, it worked 314 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: and he ran again, and the country survived ed Mount Vernon, 315 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: where they have I think a pretty amazing museum presenting 316 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: their lives. I had never realized that when they were younger, 317 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: she was really quite attractive, and we have this image 318 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: of her and her grandmotherly face. But when she was 319 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: first married to Washington, in many ways she matched him 320 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: in being an attractive person, not to mentioned that she 321 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: was the richest woman in Virginia. That helped. I mean, 322 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: she had inherited from her first husband. Some of the 323 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: letters of hers, by the way, that we do have 324 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: were between her husbands after Daniel park Custas died and 325 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: before she married Washington, and she was running the business, 326 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: and they are letters to vendors in England that she 327 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: was dealing with. She was on top of it and 328 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: there is some evidence that she was really very hesitant 329 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: to remarry because of course a married woman could not 330 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: own property. A widow could, but a married woman couldn't. 331 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: She was hesitant to give up that right. But then 332 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: George swept her off her feet. He was very clever. 333 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: Not only was she attractive and wealthy, but she was 334 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: competent in many ways. Mount Vernon survives for eight years 335 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: without him because of her right. And then when the 336 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: Washington family in the other did, they ran into the ground. 337 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: It took that remarkable group of women in the middle 338 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century to purchase it and make it survived. 339 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, in that sense, we just do a diversion 340 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: for a minute. The Mount Vernon Women's Association is really 341 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: remarkable because at a time when you didn't think of 342 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: women playing that leading a role, they saw Mount Vernon 343 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: collapsing in decaying. They got organized, they did fundraising and 344 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: literally saved the entire farm in the mansion of collapse. 345 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: And during the Civil War it was really touch and go, 346 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: and they in fact, the only money from the federal 347 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: government that Mount Vernon has ever received was a slight 348 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: compensation for soldiers being tamped there during the Civil War. 349 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: But that group of women was incredible, and in fact, 350 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: I have an interesting letter from Abigail Brooks Adams, who 351 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: was Charles Francis Adams's wife, of course, the grandson of 352 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: the original John Adams. Those women have a huge problem 353 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: raising all of that money, but I'll do what I can. 354 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: I found them to be remarkably organized and discipline about 355 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: getting things done, and the research is first rate. Yeah, 356 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: I would say anybody who's listening to this conversation, if 357 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: you get a chance to come to Washington, you should 358 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: go to Mount Vernon and you'll be amazed how much 359 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: you learn and how different your feelings are after you've 360 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: been there. Absolutely, and they've also done a very good 361 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: job of highlighting the lives of the people who were 362 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: enslaves there and the contributions they made in their craftsmanship. 363 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: It's a much fuller story. When we come back, we'll 364 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: talk about the founding mother, who was prolific in her letter, 365 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: writing mostly to her husband, advising him on what to do. 366 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: I think the woman who gets the most attention because 367 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: of the quality of her letters is Abigail Adams. Took 368 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: herself seriously, and obviously John Adams took her seriously too. 369 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: But she's really a remarkable shift from Martha Washington in style. 370 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: I sort of wonder sometimes how they must have gotten 371 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: along or not gotten along. It's kind of a classic 372 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: South North thing, isn't it. You know, Martha graciously on 373 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: the plantation, entertaining endlessly, Abigail frugally in New England, trying 374 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: to keep body and so together she I mean, which 375 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: she did in addition to her smart political and philosophical smarts. 376 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: The way she managed to support that family, it's just incredible. 377 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you go to their first house and it's 378 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: the size of most people's living rooms today. And she 379 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: had four little kids there, and she had soldiers coming 380 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: in staying from time to time, and she had a 381 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: husband who was never home, and she managed to keep 382 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: it all together, while keeping it all together to think 383 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: great thoughts about what the future of the country should be. 384 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: She said at one point to John, you know, we 385 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: women are really better patriots than you are, because here 386 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: we are suffering all the hardships of this war and 387 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: making all the sacrifices. And if we win, you men 388 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: are going to be held in high regard and hold 389 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 1: high office, and we won't even be able to vote. 390 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: So we're better patriots than you are. And I must 391 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: say he agreed. What strikes me about her is both 392 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: her assertiveness and her clarity. That this is a person 393 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: who was confident in her right to be direct and 394 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: who thought deeply and seriously about what she was going 395 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: to be direct about. But these are serious letters, absolutely, 396 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: And of course we're so blessed because there's thousands of him. 397 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: He was gone so much. She wrote to him in Philadelphia, 398 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: she wrote to him in Paris, she wrote to him 399 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: in Holland, she wrote to him all the time, and 400 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: then finally finally joined him. There were long stretches there, 401 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: and he really relied on her when he became president. 402 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: She was back at the farm trying to get everything 403 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: settled before she came to Philadelphia, and his mother was dying, 404 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: and you know, she was very businesslike about all of this, 405 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: and he kept writing her letter after letters, saying you've 406 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: got to come. I must have you. I can't do 407 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: this without you, and stop worrying about my mother, worry 408 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: about me. He does say that at one point he 409 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: was totally reliant on her. Now, I'll tell you, I 410 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: think that when she became first lady that she fell 411 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: entrapped in the way that so many people in the 412 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: White House do, not that she was in the White 413 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: House at the very end, but in the Executive Mansion do, 414 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: which is that they've become so isolated and so convinced 415 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: that they are inside doing the true the rights to 416 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: just and everybody outside is out to get them. That 417 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: she became less useful politically because she was so offended 418 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: by the controversy in the opposition and all of that, 419 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: and so she became a huge supporter of the alien 420 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: and Sedition Acts, and that was a death blow to 421 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: John Adams. Well, I'm sure were there any of the 422 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: letters that you found particularly moving or youth really thought 423 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: this is something for the ages. Well, there's lots that 424 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: are for the ages, because she is so smart and 425 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: she sometimes is so direct, as you say. She at 426 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: one point, again before the war, she went to church 427 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: and the preacher was counseling that they get along better 428 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: with England, you know, reconciliation, and she was furious, we're 429 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: not reconciling with those people. And the letter is very 430 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: direct and funny, but you're know, the most touching one 431 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: actually that I found was from John Adams when Abigail 432 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: lost a baby and the baby was full term and 433 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: she was very frightened that she was going to die, 434 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: and he was in Baltimore, where Congress had gone to 435 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: escape the British letters take a while, so he writes 436 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: her at one point and says, you must have had 437 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 1: the baby bye. Now I'm so eager to know about 438 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: this new life. And then and then he learns that 439 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: the baby had died, and he is just heartbroken, and 440 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: his letter is so affecting about how he feels so 441 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: undone by this life he never met it. It gives 442 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: you goose bumps, which is really a kind of John 443 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: Adams you don't normally think of exactly. He's usually so 444 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: gruff and sort of clueless about how to deal with people, 445 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: and in this case he's just a sad daddy. Now 446 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: there's a dramatic difference between Abigail and Dolly Madison. With Abigail, 447 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: you get this really intellectual who's thinking about all this. 448 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: And with Dolly Madison, the great moment is an action 449 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: moment when she saves Washington's painting when the British are 450 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: burning the White House, and it's just a kind of 451 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: fascinating difference in the personalities. Well, I can make a 452 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: case though, that Dolly Madison kept his country together in 453 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: a way that was absolutely necessary throughout the early Republic, 454 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: as the partisanship was getting rifer and rifer, and of 455 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: course the sectionalism. She was the person who made the 456 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: Congress come together. And it's artom when she was the 457 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: wife of Secretary of State. You know, Jefferson was such 458 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: an odd creature, and she's the person who entertained and 459 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: she had these events at their house on f Street, 460 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: and then when they were in the White House, she 461 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: did it as well. Sixteen years of Dolly Madison as 462 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: the premier hostess in Washington, where she made everybody come together, 463 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: drink some wine together, have some punch, and behave. And 464 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: it's where all of the deals were made. It's where 465 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: all the information was exchanged. And at one point the 466 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: Federalists thought that they could boycott her squeezes, as they 467 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: were called, and then they discovered they didn't know anything 468 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: if they did that, so they had to relent him 469 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: go back because that was where business got done. But 470 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: she was brilliant about it, and at one point Henry 471 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: Clay said to her everybody loves missus Madison. She said, well, 472 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: that's because missus Madison loves every body. Now I've read 473 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: her mail. That's not true, but that was the way 474 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: she came across. And when she left, when the Madison 475 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: presidency was over, the newspapers, including the Federalist newspapers, Jess 476 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: wrote these peans of praise to her, you know, these 477 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: over the top tributes to her glory having come into 478 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: the city and shown upon it, and then it disappearing. 479 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: She had her few years back at Mountpelier, but then 480 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: she came back to Washington for much of her old 481 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: age and remained very much at present so she had 482 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: a seat in the House of Representatives. She was always 483 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: consulted by presidents and first ladies, always visited by visiting 484 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: heads of state. She was really first Lady for close 485 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: to half a century. You mentioned how strange Jefferson was. 486 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: He's kind of an odd duck. He is, very much so. 487 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: My mother always said he was a spoiled brat, and 488 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: that's probably true, but he is. I mean, he was 489 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: so smart, he thought great thoughts all the time, but 490 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: he was just such a bag of contradictions. I mean, 491 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: he knew slavery was wrong, and yet he couldn't get 492 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: away from it. He was so odd about religion and 493 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: with women. He had good relationships with women, but always 494 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: talked about how he didn't think women should be involved 495 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: in anything political, and that they had ruined France. All 496 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: of that. But then he would have these long political 497 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: exchanges with women. So he was quite complicated. When he 498 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: was in the White House. He would have Federalist to 499 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: dinner one night or Republicans to dinner another night, so 500 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: that he could say different things to different people. But 501 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Sally Hemming scandal broke. People don't realize 502 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: this in eighteen o two. It was in the papers 503 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: in the second year of his presidency. So he kept 504 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: begging his daughters to come to Washington to basically serve 505 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: as cover, and they would come from time to time. 506 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: His younger daughter, Maria died in childbirth while he was president, 507 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: but his older daughter Martha came had the first baby 508 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: in the White House, James Madison Randolph, and he was 509 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: always after them to come and be with him, even 510 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: as he would write letters saying women shouldn't be involved 511 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: in these things. He was a complicated person. I think 512 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: that sort of captures it. But it's just the degree 513 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: to which that complexity, in that sort of intellectual aloofness, 514 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: created a vacuum that Dolly Medicine could fill in in 515 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: her willingness to do that. If we had one or 516 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: two dining rooms in this city today that were explicitly bipartisan, 517 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: the city would probably be a lot healthier place. Absolutely 518 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: absolutely would be. And you know, when I was growing 519 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: up that was very much the case. But you know, 520 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: we live in different times. Bess Truman became president after 521 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt. She said that she was coming into the 522 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: hardest job since Elizabeth Monroe came in after Dolly Madison, 523 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: So it was coming in after a very vibrant person. 524 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: When we come back, not all founding mothers are alike. 525 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: Next we'll reveal the mother who is one of the 526 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: most influential and unique voices of her time. You then 527 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: go from the sort of wives of extraordinary famous founding 528 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: fathers to Merciotis Warren, who really carves out her own 529 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: space in a way that for that generation is pretty absolutely. 530 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,959 Speaker 1: She grew up in a family where again she was 531 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,479 Speaker 1: treated as an equal until her brothers went to Harvard 532 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: of course she couldn't do that, but she wrote plays 533 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: and poems that were published in newspapers around the colonies 534 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: that were very influential in rousing opinion against the British. 535 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: She was as influential in some quarters as Tom Payne 536 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: with common sense. She also had the ears of many 537 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: of the founders, and so when the British were in 538 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: Boston and wreaking havoc, her letters to the Continental Congress 539 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: made a big difference in terms of bringing people together 540 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: in their willingness to fight the British, because, of course 541 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: the British were not fighting in the South at that point. 542 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: It took some convincing and her letters were influential in 543 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: doing that. And then she became very suspicious of the 544 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: Constitution and all of that because she didn't really believe 545 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: in a strong federal government. But she came around eventually 546 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: and then wrote this remarkable history of the American Revolution. 547 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's impressive in that is that, 548 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: and this is another reason why writing about the women 549 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,479 Speaker 1: is so important. She talks about things that happened during 550 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: the war. The men just never talk about rape as 551 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: an instrument of war, a starvation, all of the things. 552 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: It's not just the battlefield that she's talking about. She's 553 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: talking about the effects on all of American society. And 554 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, when you think about the Bill of Rights 555 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: and quartering troops, can you imagine the offenses that those 556 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: troops could have committed when they were quartered in people's homes. 557 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it's really a shocking thought. She was there 558 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: talking about it when nobody else was. And that's another 559 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: thing actually about writing these books. The women's letters are 560 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: so really delightful because they're not writing thinking that their 561 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: letters are going to be published as the men were. 562 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: They're not editing and re drafting and all of that. 563 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: They're just writing letters, not expecting me to read their 564 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: mail two hundred years later. Yes, they're full of politics, 565 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: but they're also full of the economic situation and who's 566 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: having children and all too often losing them, and what 567 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: the fashions are and all of that. So you get 568 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: a much much broader sense of American society, and you 569 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: also get somewhat more clear eyed view of the men. 570 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: So in that context, was Mercy Otis Warren unique or 571 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: were there a group of women who actually were public 572 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: advocates and wrote for the public. She was unusual. There 573 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 1: were some others, annest Budinos Stockton, whose husband Richard Stockton, 574 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: was one of the signers of the Declaration, and then 575 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: were canted at some point, but she was still around 576 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: and became a great friend of Washington. Her poems were 577 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: published in the newspapers of the time, and actually Washington 578 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: wrote to her when the war was over and said, 579 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: basically announced, kind of up to you women to keep 580 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: this country going, make it work. A lot of women 581 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: were not published under their own name, so Judas Sergeant Murray, 582 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: for instance, was published as the Gleaner for a while, 583 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: but then she wanted people to know it was she 584 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: who was writing, and she wrote in an essay that 585 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 1: was widely published in seventeen ninety seven on the equality 586 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: of the sexes. So you know there were women out 587 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: there arguing for equal rights even in the eighteenth centuries. 588 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: Jumping from literary advocacy the sort of direct action, Deborah 589 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: Sampson does something which actually happens a fan number of 590 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: times in the Civil War, but I think was a 591 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: little more unusual in the Revolutionary War. She becomes a 592 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: man in order to fight, right. She went to war. 593 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: They probably, I'm sure there were people in all of 594 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: our wars who did that. But she was Robert shirt Leaf, 595 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: and she fought, and she was injured several times, and 596 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 1: finally she got sick they called a camp fever, and 597 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: doctor came to tend to her and found out her secret, 598 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: and so she was discharged. But she did receive a pension, 599 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: as did her husband received a survivor's pension. She was 600 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: very much considered a soldier. And then there were others 601 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: who took over from their husbands on the battlefield. Margaret Corbin, 602 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: who at the Bottle of Fort Washington, when her husband 603 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: was shot, took his gun, and she's actually buried at 604 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 1: West Point. There were several women who actually fought, and 605 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: then lots of women went along with the men to 606 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: battle the followers, mainly the wives of the men, because 607 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: what else are they going to do. They didn't have 608 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 1: any wherewithal to make a living, and so they went 609 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 1: with the soldiers. And they then became useful. They cooked 610 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: and brought water and nursed, and at one point at Yorktown. 611 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: In fact, this in exchange that Washington has memorialized of 612 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: saying to some woman who was headed out to the 613 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: field with bread aren't you afraid? And she said, well, 614 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: if the men are out there, I should be out 615 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: there feeding them, you know. So they were very much 616 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: on the scene. And in Washington's general orders, he's constantly saying, 617 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: because he cares about appearances, and he's constantly saying, in 618 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: his general orders, I want the women and children to 619 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: march with the baggage trains. But he says, it's so 620 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: often that you can tell that it's not happening. And 621 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: then at one point he finally says, okay, just the 622 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: women who can move fast should move with the So 623 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: they were in there. I'm trying to remember, wasn't Molly Pitcher. Yes, 624 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: she was at Monmouth in New Jersey. We're not sure 625 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: exactly who she was. There's so much contemporaneous storytelling about 626 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: her where she was filling the cannons with water, and 627 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: which was the Pitcher and the man with the husband, 628 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: boyfriend whatever was shot and she took there's I think 629 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: there's a very famous painting of her wielding the device 630 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: that you shoved down the cannon to the cannon. And 631 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: of course, back in that period, because of the kind 632 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: of cannon they were using, they needed to put the 633 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: water in to make sure that there's no fire left 634 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: from the last round when they put the powder, and 635 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: it could blow up before you wanted it to. So 636 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: she actually, at least by mythology, she played it. You know, 637 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: she was one of those heroic figures, and that sort 638 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: of helped build the morale and the sense of potential victory. 639 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: Right when you add up all of these stories, do 640 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: you really see what an incredible contribution these women make. 641 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: And let's not leave out the fundraising. In seventeen eighty 642 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: it was a low low point in the war. The 643 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: French hadn't arrived yet, the British had New York and Charleston, 644 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: and soldiers were feeling very defeated. Esther de Bert Reid, 645 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: who was an English immigrant who became a rabbit Patriot, 646 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: was the wife of Joseph Reid, who was the governor 647 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania and one of Washington's right hand men. And 648 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: she published in the newspapers the Sentiments of an American 649 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: woman calling on women to sacrifice for the men in 650 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: the army, and then started a fundraising drive, and they 651 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: kept wonderful records. They went house to house around Philadelphia mainly, 652 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: but also in the other colonies, the first ladies in 653 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: each colony ran the drive. And in fact, it's the 654 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: only extant letter of Martha Jefferson's that we have, is 655 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,919 Speaker 1: of her asking the women of Virginia to contribute to 656 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: the fund for the soldiers. In a few weeks, they 657 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: raised three hundred thousand dollars. And at that point Robert 658 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: Morris and his cronies were trying to start a bank 659 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: and they had only raised three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. 660 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: So the women did something quite remarkable and it contributed 661 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: mightily the soldier morale. Are there lots and lots of 662 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: newspaper articles attesting to that. So they were just all 663 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: kinds of ways that they made their abilities available to 664 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: this new nation. Let me take these last couple of 665 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: minutes and switch gears pretty dramatically on you. You've had 666 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: a remarkable career. You grew up with remarkable parents. Both 667 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: your father and your mother had remarkable careers. Have carved 668 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: out a niche for yourself as a journalist, as a historian, 669 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: and as somebody who as an observer of our time 670 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: and an interpreter of the past. If a young man 671 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: or woman came to you and said, what's your advice, 672 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: given all the things you've been through, all the things 673 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: you've done, what advice would you give to a young 674 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: person today that you've learned do you think would help 675 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: them on the path thereon? I would say, and I'm 676 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,399 Speaker 1: not just saying this because I'm talking to you, I 677 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: would say, find a way to contribute to the public, 678 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: preferably through public service. I am a great admirer of 679 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: people who put themselves on the line, the famous Roosevelt 680 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: man in the arena and now thankfully women in the arena. 681 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: I know how hard public service is, and I greatly 682 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: admire the people who are willing to do it. I 683 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: think that that is the way the nation thrives and 684 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: grows and comes to understand our changes as of an 685 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: American society is by young people taking on that obligation 686 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: and being willing to fulfill it. And I know it's tough, 687 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: I really do, and I've always felt guilty about not 688 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: doing it myself. I'm the only member of my original 689 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: nuclear family not to run for Congress, but I've tried 690 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: to contribute by explaining American government. But I do think 691 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 1: that we need the participation of the citizenry in any 692 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: way that they feel that they can do it, and 693 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: I would advise any young person to whatever else they do, 694 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 1: to also be very participatory citizens. You know, citizenship comes 695 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: in many ways. I would argue that as a journalist 696 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 1: who has really tried to understand, of course, you came 697 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: from a unique insight. I mean, very few journalists had 698 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: quite the background of their childhood that you had. But 699 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: I've always felt like you were really trying to understand 700 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: and explain this process self government that on the one 701 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: hand is very robust and on the other hand, is 702 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,439 Speaker 1: very very fragile in that sense, I guess i'd echo 703 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: what you said, except I would say that citizenship can 704 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: come in many forms, and that if you figure out 705 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: your particular path for citizenship, you can do an amazing 706 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: amount for America and do it in a way which 707 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: is interesting and fascinating and leads to a good life. 708 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Let me wish you a very 709 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: happy Mother's Day. Thank you. I'm happy to say that 710 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 1: I now have middle aged children and sixteen age grandchildren 711 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: and looking forward to a day with him. Thank you 712 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: very much, Thank you so much, lovely to talk to you. 713 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,439 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Cookie Roberts. You can read 714 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,800 Speaker 1: more about the founding mothers we talked about today, including 715 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: a link to Cookie's book, on our show page at 716 00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 1: newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Westward One. The 717 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:06,799 Speaker 1: executive producer is Debbie Myers. Our producers Garnsey Sloan. Our 718 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: editor is Robert Borowski. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 719 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. The 720 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: music was composed by Joey Salvin. Special thanks to the 721 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: team at Gamers three sixty and Westwood Ones, Tim Sabian 722 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: and Robert Mathers. Please email me with your comments at 723 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: newted newtsworld dot com. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 724 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple podcast and both rate us 725 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 726 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. On the next episode 727 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: of Newsworld, we will explore the United States relationship with 728 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: communist China and how we got it all wrong. Now 729 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: there's new China and the Chinese people have stood up 730 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: and she didn't been called it the China Dream, and 731 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: this is something applies to everything you know. There's a 732 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: China dream to build a powerful military. There's a China 733 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,760 Speaker 1: dream too, go to space. There's superpower aspirations. I'm Newt Gangridge. 734 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: This is Newsworld, the Westwood one podcast network.