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Speaker 1: Revere, Revere dalks.

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Speaker 2: Look at us now, tip to tip.

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Speaker 1: This is our life, this is.

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Speaker 2: Our passion, that's the spirit we bring to this show.

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Speaker 2: I'm Luke Thomas, I'm Brian Campbell.

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Speaker 1: Is this this Morning Combat?

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Speaker 2: Ah? Yeah right, you thought you'd never hear that again,

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Speaker 2: but we keep coming back. Hey, guys, get fired up.

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Speaker 2: It's Morning Combat. Brian Campbell, Luke Thomas next next to me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks all right, that got weird. Hey, folks, look we're

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Speaker 2: back at it with a bang because this is a

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Speaker 2: monster week. We told you we'd be set in the

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Speaker 2: stage for UFC two ninety nine that's to come. But today,

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Speaker 2: right now, Wednesday, March sixth, twenty twenty four, we are

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Speaker 2: two more sleeps. John Annick from Francis and Gono versus

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Speaker 2: Anthony Joshua. It goes down in Rion, Saudi Arabia, a

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Speaker 2: ten round heavyweight boxing match. And Luke Thomas, I've been

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Speaker 2: saying since the turn of the calendar of the new

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Speaker 2: year that if you circle the on Combat Sports, fight

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Speaker 2: over the load era not really loaded, but over what

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Speaker 2: we see over the next four or five months, this

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Speaker 2: is the fight. Have anything changed to change that in

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Speaker 2: your eyes?

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Speaker 1: Well? I mean, everyone's gonna have slightly different preferences on

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Speaker 1: all of this, right, so it is. I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot of great things to choose from.

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Speaker 1: They just announced neary and in a way at the

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Speaker 1: Tokyo Dome in May. I mean, that's a hell of

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Speaker 1: a contest too. But obviously what Francis has done in boxing,

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Speaker 1: shaking it up the way that he did against Tyson

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Speaker 1: Fury remarkable. Here he is back to the sort of

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Speaker 1: scene of the crime as it were taking on Anthony

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Speaker 1: Joshua and BC. We were talking about this before the

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Speaker 1: camera started rolling. I was looking up the odds because

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Speaker 1: I hadn't seen them yet. Obviously they're going to differ

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Speaker 1: in a few places. But you've got Anthony Joshua at

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Speaker 1: around minus four hundred or so, You've got Francis at

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Speaker 1: around plus three hundred or so, depending on where you look.

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Speaker 1: I am shocked by those odds, not so much that

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Speaker 1: I find them completely out to lunch. And again, odds

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Speaker 1: are designed to induce beddings, so they're not necessarily an

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Speaker 1: accurate reflection of reality. But that would you ever imagine

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Speaker 1: Francis and Gan, who's once he split, once he fought

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Speaker 1: Cyril gon BC. If I'd have told you he's gonna

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Speaker 1: fight after this, not MMA, but Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua,

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Speaker 1: and he'll be no worse than a plus three hundred

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Speaker 1: when he does it. It just blows your mind. And the

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Speaker 1: way that that can re alter the combat sports map

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Speaker 1: is basically unlike any other fight that's out there.

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Speaker 2: Right now you said it, and maybe just for me

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Speaker 2: personally that I'm speaking, this is the one I've circled

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Speaker 2: because it's so damn intriguing. And five months removed or

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Speaker 2: five ish from last October, when in ghan Wu made

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Speaker 2: his pro debut, also in Saudi, against Tyson Fury, how

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Speaker 2: much has that narrative switched. Let's not forget that when

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Speaker 2: Fury and Ganu signed up for their non title bout,

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Speaker 2: we were basically saying, hey, boxing, what are we doing here?

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Speaker 2: Usik Fury's supposedly around the corner, and if in Ghanu

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Speaker 2: is gonna get the fight, at least put the title

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Speaker 2: on the line to make it worth it. It didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: What did happen was in gan who shocked the world

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Speaker 2: with his performance, knocking down a out of shape and

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Speaker 2: likely unfocused Tyson Fury. But Luke, if it was just

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Speaker 2: one punch in one knockdown, you'd be like, Wow, what

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Speaker 2: a crazy moment, near upset of a lifetime. But the

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Speaker 2: fact that in Ghanu finished strong, fought the rest of

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Speaker 2: the way. No, his output wasn't big enough to have

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Speaker 2: a larger dispute on the scorecards and losing a split decision.

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Speaker 2: But in Ghanu disciplined and disarmed the greatest heavyweight of

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Speaker 2: this modern era, or so we think, and unbeating Tyson Fury,

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Speaker 2: and he's actually earned this shot against Joshua, which correct

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Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, Luke. But the winner of this fight,

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Speaker 2: even with usukin Fury being signed up for two fights,

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Speaker 2: the winner of this fight will legitimately have a say

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Speaker 2: about who's next for the undisputed heavyweight championship, not in

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Speaker 2: a crossover, Maymac. Let's get Francis in there, Let's get

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Speaker 2: him his bag and run. He will have earned it

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Speaker 2: if he wins on Friday. That is mind blowing. That

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Speaker 2: shows you how much the narrative can change. But I

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Speaker 2: think more than anything, what it shows you is Francis

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Speaker 2: is in the midst of the greatest story ever told.

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Speaker 2: In combat sports history. Really, seriously, really we got to

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Speaker 2: find out the next chapter whether this is a fairy

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Speaker 2: tale or an aberration or whatever. But that adds a

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Speaker 2: lot to the proceedings heading into Friday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the worst case scenario, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how close this would be. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying the worst case scenarios, he just has to

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Speaker 1: go back to MMA and fight somebody there of probably

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Speaker 1: not a big name stature, but you know, a comfortable

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Speaker 1: lead he would have on his opponent in terms of

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Speaker 1: skill and experience at the worst case scenario. But the

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Speaker 1: better to best case scenarios BC are are insane. If

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Speaker 1: there's any kind of controversy about the decision, he could

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Speaker 1: get a rematch. There'd be three fights in boxing, two

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Speaker 1: against Anthony Joshua and then Tyson Fury potentially could be

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Speaker 1: with another one down the line. But having already booked that,

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Speaker 1: there's that. But to your point, it sounds insane. It

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Speaker 1: sounds completely like, oh, here's a couple MMA guys. I

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Speaker 1: know it's not really fair to UBC, but it's a

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Speaker 1: couple of MMA guys just you know, over hyping Francis's

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Speaker 1: chances guys, we didn't set the odds. I'm not necessarily

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Speaker 1: in any way predicting France's wins. But I just told

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Speaker 1: you he's plus minus or excuse me, he's plus two

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Speaker 1: seventy five in certain places. When was the last time

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Speaker 1: Anthony Joshua had an opponent at plus two seventy five

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Speaker 1: that had this kind of punching power. He doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to hit you very off. He just has to hit

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Speaker 1: you at all. And it seems to have a dramatic effect.

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Speaker 1: And so the point I'm trying to make here is

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Speaker 1: all of this doesn't make sense. All of this sort

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Speaker 1: of really could shape and have gravitational pull in all

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Speaker 1: kinds of directions. But to answer the question you put

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Speaker 1: BC about what it means for potentially being next in

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Speaker 1: line for the winner of Furianusic, there's no doubt in

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Speaker 1: my mind you could do that, especially if it's an

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Speaker 1: emphatic win, and if Francis does it, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what. I don't even know if my brain can

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Speaker 1: comprehend that, BC. I don't even know if my brain

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Speaker 1: can comprehend what it might mean for Francis to advance

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Speaker 1: his career in that way. Something we've never seen before

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Speaker 1: and probably would never see again. That rare, that special.

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Speaker 2: The thing is we're working under this working belief that

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Speaker 2: if you're the PFL, you're certainly sitting on pins and needles.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 2: You signed Francis, you gave them the world and I

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Speaker 2: don't I don't damn them for that. It was a

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Speaker 2: monster signing. It was in the midst of Francis trying

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Speaker 2: to improve fighter conditions for everybody. He was given a

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Speaker 2: seat on their global board. He was given equity and

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Speaker 2: PFL Africa for whatever that will end up meaning. But

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Speaker 2: the idea is if he upsets Joshua, he probably won't

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Speaker 2: even be fighting for the PFL this year when this

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Speaker 2: is their biggest year possible, because it's going to lead

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Speaker 2: him to the things like an undisputed title fight or

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Speaker 2: Deontay Wilder for all we know, but don't forget too.

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Speaker 2: On the same card on Friday, on the undercard, Jean

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Speaker 2: Jules the heavyweight, the six foot six Chinese heavyweight who

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Speaker 2: won that secondary WBO title with the big win over

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Speaker 2: Joe Joyce. He's taken on Joseph Parker, who just outpointed

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Speaker 2: Deontay Wilder and really made him look bad. You could

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Speaker 2: easily see Francis getting the winner of that if he wins,

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Speaker 2: or maybe even if he loses but looks good in

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Speaker 2: doing so. The whole point is the landscape for him

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Speaker 2: is only gonna be about money moving forward. Whether that's

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Speaker 2: really what he's all about or not. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he is. I think that's part of this. But the

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Speaker 2: other half of it is he might actually f around

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Speaker 2: and be a legitimate heavyweight title contender win or lose Friday,

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Speaker 2: and I just I can't even believe that. So how

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Speaker 2: did we get here? How is this possible? It's certainly

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Speaker 2: part of Francis's incredible story, which in his mid twenties

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Speaker 2: and Cameroon and what the salt mines or something, He's like, No,

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Speaker 2: I want to become a heavyweight boxer, so I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go to France, but then get delayed in jails

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Speaker 2: and then be homeless sleeping in my car and then

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Speaker 2: end up in an MMA gym. And oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: he took a detour and became the UFC evyweight champion

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Speaker 2: and then crawled through the Shawshank Tunnel of shit to

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Speaker 2: get through Cyril Gone with no knees so there's been

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Speaker 2: a crazy story to get here. But Luke, when you

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Speaker 2: watched the performance of Fury versus in Godhu, even if

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Speaker 2: you can put to the side some ideas that I

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Speaker 2: do think are true, Fury overweight, Fury maybe not taking

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Speaker 2: it a serious as he could have. Francis's technical ability,

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Speaker 2: his footwork, his ability to make himself dangerous was far

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Speaker 2: more advanced than it should have been. We can say

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Speaker 2: that first and foremost that this isn't just about freak

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Speaker 2: power in both hands, his set up, his ability to

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Speaker 2: land that perfect Connor left hook that dropped Fury. That's

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Speaker 2: not fooling around. That was the moment where all of

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Speaker 2: this changed, because I think all of us, including Tyson

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Speaker 2: Fury most specifically, looked up and was like, oh crap,

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Speaker 2: he can. It's not just that he has this heavy artillery.

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Speaker 2: He has the delivery system. He knows how to make

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Speaker 2: himself awkward yet efficient enough to be that dangerous. Luke

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Speaker 2: didn't see that coming, seriously, didn't see that coming.

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Speaker 1: And what it shows on top of all of that

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Speaker 1: is his ability to make reads. Right, you're making reads

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Speaker 1: because if you actually go and look what happened, I'm

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Speaker 1: not it's not exactly apples to apples, But you remember

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Speaker 1: when Gravonte Davis knocked out the uppercut who was the

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Speaker 1: uppercut guy, Santa Cruz, Yes, Leo Santa Cruz. When he

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Speaker 1: knocked out Leo Santa Cruz, you'll notice Santa Cruz went

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Speaker 1: with the right hand one two, and then was the

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Speaker 1: third time right after that he gets hit with the

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Speaker 1: upper cut. It wasn't quite like that. But the point

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make is if you actually go back

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Speaker 1: and you watch the tape, this was a third round

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Speaker 1: knockdown that in Ganu scored. What ended up happening was

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Speaker 1: you had Tyson Fury going to the well won too

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Speaker 1: many times with that right hand, and so what did

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Speaker 1: Francis do. He read it and came right over the

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Speaker 1: top with perfect timing on a very overconfident and frankly

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Speaker 1: a little bit I want to say, listless as an opponent,

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Speaker 1: but not inspired performance necessarily from Tyson Fury. So you

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Speaker 1: have this ability for a guy to make reads in

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Speaker 1: real time in a secondary sport. I mean we often,

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Speaker 1: I say this over and over again, we focus on

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Speaker 1: Francis's power because it is real. He is a dynamic puncher,

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Speaker 1: how much of one in MMA will excuse me boxing,

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Speaker 1: he's only had the one fight. We'll see how it

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Speaker 1: goes and this one will get a better judge of it.

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Speaker 1: But still pretty good reason to believe he's a dynamic puncher.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that we always lose sight of BCE

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Speaker 1: is how smart this guy is. I think he's a

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Speaker 1: smart businessman. Look at how he's guided his career, and

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Speaker 1: he is a pretty quick learner. The biggest example of

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Speaker 1: that may not necessarily be what he showed you in boxing,

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Speaker 1: but look at his development even in his thirties. Between

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Speaker 1: the first and second step a Miochic fights, these were

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Speaker 1: radically different fights, and it was because Francis had this

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Speaker 1: dude on his heels, hitting him with shots he did

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Speaker 1: not expect, He did not see coming, he did not anticipate.

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Speaker 1: They were linear, they were clever, and they were powerful,

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Speaker 1: and he closed the show in the end. I fully

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Speaker 1: expect Anthony Joshua to be better, but I also expect

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Speaker 1: Francis to be better than we saw him the last time.

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Speaker 1: His own trainer, Dewey Cooper has told me, if there's

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Speaker 1: not other MMA fighters who can do this, Francis is

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Speaker 1: one of one. But when you really, really, you know,

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Speaker 1: wrap your your your your your mind around what that means.

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Speaker 1: It means he's capable. He's he's trying the very difficult here,

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Speaker 1: but he is capable of more than the than the

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Speaker 1: you know, average sort of even elite guy in a

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Speaker 1: similar circumstance.

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Speaker 2: Well, all we can do is compare that. Even though

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Speaker 2: crossing over from one sport to the other is becoming

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Speaker 2: so regular that, like you know, you got things like

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Speaker 2: BKFC and formerly Trailer that are combining athletes from both

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Speaker 2: sports regularly. We're seeing older boxers boxing, rising MMA guys

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Speaker 2: all that, But it's always been the same thing more

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Speaker 2: or less. Unless the MMA fighter is extremely younger, has

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Speaker 2: an extreme size advantage, it's obviously hard for them to

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Speaker 2: close that gap so quickly and possibly hard. I mean,

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Speaker 2: who did it best? Connor McGregor probably, Yet you know,

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Speaker 2: you can pull Colls in that and say it was

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Speaker 2: a Floyd who was forty two years retired, didn't take

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Speaker 2: it so seriously, waited until Connor got tired, and also Luke.

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Speaker 2: Most importantly, the biggest criticism of Connor's boxing game in

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Speaker 2: that big landmark twenty seventeen fight was overnight. You can't

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Speaker 2: just switch the footworks and the technique and the delivery

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Speaker 2: systems to be able to be that crisp to transfer

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Speaker 2: your power. It didn't look like Connor McGregor was able

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Speaker 2: to trans for nearly close to the one punch four

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Speaker 2: on sclove power that he had with the big boxing

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Speaker 2: loves in the different stance. Okay, maybe Anderson Silva was

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Speaker 2: the best who made that transition that quickly against a

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Speaker 2: washed Julio says Arshavs Junior and ended up getting the

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Speaker 2: Jake Paul fight. But like even Na Diaz going in

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Speaker 2: against Jake Paul fought well, but it's rudimentary. It obviously

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Speaker 2: justified that it is right. Any of these crossover in

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Speaker 2: recent years, you go, okay, wow, if only they had

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Speaker 2: started that younger and they put their their nose to

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Speaker 2: the grind, who could they have been? They probably could

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Speaker 2: have been decent. With Francis, we're literally arguing whether he

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Speaker 2: just beat Tyson Fury. We're literally trying to say, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, the odds aren't here that are that bad

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Speaker 2: here that he could do the same against Anthony Joshua.

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Speaker 2: So yes, we are looking at one of one all

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Speaker 2: the times that we heard him and his team say

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Speaker 2: confident things and maybe laugh to ourselves or said, wow,

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Speaker 2: you know that's a that's a fun way of chasing

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Speaker 2: a bag and justifying it talking up your chances. No,

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Speaker 2: those chances punched Tyson Fury right in the face with

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Speaker 2: his left hand and dropped him. So the equation has changed.

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Speaker 2: But not to leave AJ out of this discussion, let

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Speaker 2: me bring Anthony Joshua in, Luke. How much would our

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Speaker 2: excited anti anticipation for Friday's fight, which is already very high,

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Speaker 2: how different would it have been in your eyes if

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Speaker 2: Anthony Joshua had not just authored a career I don't

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Speaker 2: want to say reviving because that would be a little

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Speaker 2: bit harsh since he won a bunch of fights before that.

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Speaker 2: But a rejuvenating performance against out of vleeen by being

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Speaker 2: the AJ of old, the AJ from before the first

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Speaker 2: and Andy Ruiz fight in twenty nineteen, walking him down

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Speaker 2: with two handed punching and finishing him in round five.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that hasn't like taken away in Ghano's chances.

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Speaker 2: It's all, if anything has improved, the idea that this

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Speaker 2: could be an even better fight. But I almost feel

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Speaker 2: like had that not happened, you might be you might

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Speaker 2: see the odds of near pick on. Am I crazy?

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Speaker 2: Hear Luke, because there was some doubt around AJ coming

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Speaker 2: into that Vollein fight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean remember at the time when we were

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Speaker 1: doing MKA for the shows that when that fight was happening.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I was alone and thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: Deontay Wilder might do really well against Joseph Parker. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know how Anthony Joshua was gonna do against

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Speaker 1: Otto Voalleen Vholene having a really good performance. Ultimately, he

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Speaker 1: could have won in a different jurisdiction against Tyson Fury

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Speaker 1: based on the cuts that he had suffered. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is this is not gonna go

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Speaker 1: all that well. Turns out Joseph Parker had a great

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Speaker 1: night against Deontay Wilder and it was the opposite to

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Speaker 1: your point. Anthony Joshua looked tremendous against Otto Volen, powerful

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Speaker 1: jab backing him up, and that just that there may

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Speaker 1: have Listen, man, the guy had to fight Usik twice

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Speaker 1: and that was a tall order. Like, that's a very

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Speaker 1: difficult puzzle to figure out. It's confusing, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: get a beat on him. He has so many different

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Speaker 1: tricks and angles and setups and escapes. It's a really

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Speaker 1: thoughtful way to fight, and it's somewhat reduced his physical prowess.

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Speaker 1: The vol fight was a reminder that first of all,

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Speaker 1: he might have gotten better as a result of having

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Speaker 1: to train for Usik twice different fights. But I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying the level of precision you have to put into

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Speaker 1: what you're doing to get ready for a contest like that.

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Speaker 1: And then, more to the point, I think in this case,

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Speaker 1: now that he didn't have his brain wasn't so occupied

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Speaker 1: with the difficulty of fighting a very cerebral opponent. Volume's good,

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Speaker 1: but he's not usick. He was able to let some

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Speaker 1: of that ferocity come back. And I really want to

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Speaker 1: say this. We haven't gotten to the x's and o's yet,

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Speaker 1: but one of the things that's really going to be

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Speaker 1: key for Anthony Joshua in this fight and then a

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Speaker 1: big problem I think ultimately potentially anyway for francis that

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Speaker 1: powerful jab. Yes, everyone saw the right hand that sent

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Speaker 1: Robert Helenius to the Land of Winding Ghosts or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You've seen it a million times, but Anthony Joshua a powerful, athletic,

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Speaker 1: prodigious jabber, very clever with it. You see him now

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Speaker 1: changing angles off of it. That is something that I

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Speaker 1: really believe Fury was able to use to great effect

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Speaker 1: to kind of eke out a decision when but you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a guy here with a powerful jab, a

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Speaker 1: consistent jab man, dude, he is poised to look pretty

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Speaker 1: good here. And one more note about this BC. As

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Speaker 1: you know as well as I do, Tyson Fury maybe

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Speaker 1: got surprised a little bit by Francis Nganu. I don't

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Speaker 1: think Anthony Joshua is expecting a surprise. I think he's

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Speaker 1: trained for a real opponent and that's gonna make the

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Speaker 1: job for Francis much harder on Friday Night.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, it does bring up an interesting equation where

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Speaker 2: we have to rightfully check ourselves when handicapping this fight

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Speaker 2: and asking ourselves, isn't Ganu everything that he looked to

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Speaker 2: be against Fury? And could he actually improve and be

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Speaker 2: better now five months later? Or was that the ultimate

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Speaker 2: fools gold perfect night aberration? How many times have we

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Speaker 2: seen a Buster Douglas type performance. Although this didn't get

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Speaker 2: him the w right, this was more like Balboa versus

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Speaker 2: Creed one in that regard, we've certainly seen that before.

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Speaker 2: But like you can ask the same thing about Aj.

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Speaker 2: Is that Otto Valen performance him fixing the glitch or

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Speaker 2: is that out of Vaalleen performance the new man? Now

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Speaker 2: the four days in the sensory depth perception chamber or

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Speaker 2: whatever I just made up. Look, he paid a lot

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Speaker 2: of money to sit in absolute darkness and silence for

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Speaker 2: four days and he came out hungry, aggressive, chip on

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Speaker 2: his shoulder and put that together. Is that matchup dependent

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Speaker 2: against Voleeen? That's the key question when you're talking about

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Speaker 2: the x's and o's here, because what happens if Nganu

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Speaker 2: gets to AJ's chin early Luke. Outside of the Klitschko

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Speaker 2: fight where AJ got up off the deck like a

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Speaker 2: real man at Wembley Stadium in front of a you know,

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Speaker 2: ninety k and finished off one of the greatest heavyweight

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Speaker 2: champions in history, we've seen AJ have a vulnerable, a flashchin,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know if we've ever seen him outside

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Speaker 2: of that night come back mid fight and fix the issue.

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Speaker 2: A lot of times when he gets hurt. You see

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Speaker 2: AJ duck recover. You see AJ need to sort of

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Speaker 2: you know, figure out that period of peril that he's

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Speaker 2: going through, and it's not always the best physical reactions

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Speaker 2: on there. And Ghano could could put that Mike Tyson

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Speaker 2: quote to life here, you know that hole you have.

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Speaker 2: Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face.

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Speaker 2: I do wonder as rich as revived as Aj is

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Speaker 2: can in Ghana do the same thing to him that

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Speaker 2: he did to Tyson Fury, which has hit him so flushed,

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Speaker 2: so hard where it's like I can't win with my

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Speaker 2: a game anymore. This is almost survival now. Fury survived

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Speaker 2: in advance. He literally became a tiny fighter and eked

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Speaker 2: out with victory by boxing from the outside. What does

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Speaker 2: ADJ do when he meets that real power. Look, that's

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Speaker 2: the the fifty million dollar question.

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Speaker 1: It's a great question. I don't know. I tend to

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Speaker 1: think that the one that the fighter we got against

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Speaker 1: Otto Valleen is the one we're going to get here

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Speaker 1: on Friday, But I guess we'll see one. Never really knows. Also, again,

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Speaker 1: Tyson got hit because he got a little bit over

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Speaker 1: zealous and paid for it. I don't know exactly what

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Speaker 1: kind of game plan we're going to see Aj come

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Speaker 1: with the thing that stands out to me about this

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Speaker 1: is the big power of Francis could play a role

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Speaker 1: potentially later in the fight. I mean, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: say play a role anywhere in the fight when you've

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Speaker 1: got power like that. But I guess what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to point out was I'd be very curious to see

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Speaker 1: if to what extent this fight takes place in the clinch.

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Speaker 1: You know, one thing that we saw Francis have a

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Speaker 1: clear advantage of and was very very good at framing

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Speaker 1: in the clinch, escaping, striking on the exit, Fury trying

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Speaker 1: to tie him up and couldn't really do it. Fury

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Speaker 1: has a jab, but he often has more of a

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Speaker 1: flick jab. He doesn't have the same kind of power

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Speaker 1: jab that Anthony Joshua does, and that's going to be

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Speaker 1: trouble if you're at the end of it. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if we're going to see Francis try and weave his

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Speaker 1: way to the inside and force a bit of a

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Speaker 1: wrestling match on the ropes whe where from a wrestling

400
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: perspective against bicep control recent in the angle and then

401
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Speaker 1: going I wonder if he's gonna have a decisive advantage

402
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Speaker 1: there In fact, I would pick for inside fighting. Inside fighting,

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Speaker 1: Francis might have the best chance of winning against any

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Speaker 1: heavyweight under those circumstances. And so to me, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the big shot he landed on Fury. Maybe that

406
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Speaker 1: will play a role here. Again, we do think that

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Speaker 1: Francis's power will be a relevant factor. But if I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking x's and o's, I just don't feel like an

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Speaker 1: outside game is really going to suit him. That inside

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Speaker 1: game could be something. And then it becomes a question

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Speaker 1: of what kind of grind is Anthony Joshua prepared for

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Speaker 1: If he has to grind on those terms, round over round,

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Speaker 1: that to me is a very interesting question. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to see how that plays out.

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Speaker 2: Here's an interesting question related to that, it's how much

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Speaker 2: can Francis and Gano improve in five months? I mean

417
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Speaker 2: to put out, that performance in his pro debut against

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Speaker 2: that fighter is crazy. It's even crazier now that he's

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Speaker 2: getting Anthony josh Or a revived one when we talk

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Speaker 2: about his ability in short time to figure out to

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Speaker 2: use that mind and adapt and adjust. Look, if there's

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Speaker 2: a negative against his performance against Fury, and ultimately, the

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Speaker 2: thing that I do truly believe prevented him from getting

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Speaker 2: the round by round nod over ten rounds and losing

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Speaker 2: that split decision was a lack of output, particularly in

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Speaker 2: the second half. While in Ganu was able to stay

427
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Speaker 2: a one punch counter threat that lowered the output of

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Speaker 2: Fury that forced him into a defensive survive in advance mode,

429
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 2: he was unable to put on enough offense where there

430
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: was no doubt. Was that a stamina issue? It's hard

431
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 2: to tell. This is a different set up in timing

432
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 2: than five rounds in MMA. How much realistically can we

433
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: expect him to fix some of those glitches or before

434
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: you answer that, Luke, is that the style that most

435
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: covers up for whatever gap in experience and technique that

436
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 2: he'll have up against aj throwing one punch at the

437
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: time and remaining dangerous. What I'm basically saying, if we

438
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 2: seeing God who try to take the lead and be

439
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,479
Speaker 2: the power boxer to set up his right hand, is

440
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: that going to open him up to get countered in

441
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: ways that maybe we never found out in the first

442
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: fight because he was so coiled, so dangerous, getting closer

443
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: to Fury and putting that threat of that one punch.

444
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: I think that the way I would look at it

445
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: is slightly differently, which is Francis obviously got confirmation that

446
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: his power would work against Fury pretty early on is

447
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: that fight round three, right, And so I'm not saying

448
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: that this was the deciding factor, but it probably played

449
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: a role. And in general, I just think his game

450
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: plan was less is probably going to be more now.

451
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: In the end, he lost the fight because Less was not.

452
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: But what I mean to say is, if you open

453
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: yourself up a lot, right, you really create a lot

454
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: of openings. Someone who overall has a better skill advantage

455
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: than you is going to be able to take advantage

456
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: of that. In other words, if you go up against

457
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: someone and they're better than you, but you're only thinking defense,

458
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: you're only thinking cover up, you're only thinking perry, catch,

459
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: move out of the way, shut them down. They can't

460
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: really get anything going either, can they, And they can't

461
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: take advantage of anything you're doing. There's no counter striking opportunity.

462
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: Think about for our the MMA audience, think about someone

463
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: like Joel Romero. He doesn't have like slip encounter. It's

464
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: really not what he does for the most part. For

465
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: the most part, what he does is he just spends

466
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: long times blocking, covering up, not really opening himself, and

467
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: then he'll have a big explosive moment or something like that.

468
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Francis was doing exactly the same,

469
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: but what I am pointing out is BC Francis took

470
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: his time for the most part, to make sure that

471
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: he had quality opportunities as best he could ascertain them

472
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: and didn't go for like low hanging fruit, didn't go

473
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: for too much stuff, didn't open himself any more than

474
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: he necessarily needed to, which kept the fight close. It

475
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: didn't allow him to ultimately persevere in the end, but

476
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: it allowed him to keep it pretty pretty close. I

477
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: think unless this fight is taking place on the inside,

478
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: you will see something like that. Again. I would be

479
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: very surprised unless he feels like he can do like

480
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: a Andy Ruiz thing BC, where he can bait him

481
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: into exchanging and then just win some kind of exchange

482
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: with you know. But he doesn't have Ruiz's hand speed,

483
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: so that's a little weird. But maybe maybe you'll open it,

484
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: make him throw with him, and then as a consequence

485
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: you feel like you're just gonna get the better of that.

486
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: In the end. There's that too, But I just feel

487
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: like you didn't see France's throw a lot because he

488
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: knew if he did, he would be much more easily countered.

489
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: He was judicious, then I expect him to be judicious, judicious, judicious.

490
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: Excuse me on Friday.

491
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 2: The problem is we've never seen Enganu hurt to the

492
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: level that it compromised him. He took an absolute beating

493
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: from stepe A Miochich over the last four rounds of

494
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: their first title fight, in which he was exhausted, yet

495
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: never stopped being a one punch threat, never stopped trying

496
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: to get back into that fight. So look, even if

497
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 2: Joshua can it, can put his will on him, can

498
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 2: impart on him. I mean, you made a great point

499
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: about the infighting could be the avenue that in Ghanu

500
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: really pulls the terms of the fight in his direction.

501
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: Even though I don't look at aj as a great

502
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: infighter from the standpoint of using his incredible physicality six

503
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: foot six linebacker NFL frame. In fact, Luke, I think

504
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: we can. We can criticize him against Usik both fights

505
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: for not being the bigger man consistently to try to

506
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: use that as a way to slow Usik down. His

507
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: upper cuts inside though, or Lennox Lewis esque they really are.

508
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 2: That is the punch that that got Vladimir Klitschko hurt

509
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: and got him out of there. Can that be a

510
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: weapon against Anghanuo? Or is this image of him basically

511
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: being Homer Simpson in there even though the meme would

512
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: be reversed because him knocking him. You said, you see that.

513
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: Francis commented on social media that picture of the Simpsons,

514
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: of of that Mike Tyson sque character jabbing Homer Simpson

515
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: looked exactly like in Gano and Fury in that regard, Luke,

516
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: it is an interesting question. Can aj be the bigger

517
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: puncher inside in ways that does back and gone up,

518
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: that does change the terms of the fight.

519
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, here's one thing we know about Francis.

520
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: My man has an iron chin. I mean remember that

521
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: elbow that at that Fury at the super illegal elbow

522
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: that Fury land and him did nothing to him. We've

523
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: known that Big Francis has a monster chin, and I

524
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: suspect at some point or another he might need it.

525
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: In this context. This is a very different fight than

526
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: Tyson Fury. Yeah, it's a lot of It's a big

527
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: hill to climb. Maybe you're fighting a big time boxer

528
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: who's got a lot of experience. It's the same in

529
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: that sense, but the nuts and bolts of it are

530
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: much much different. And I do think that that could

531
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: be a powerful weapon, by the way, for either guy

532
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: on the inside, if we can just be honest about that.

533
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: These are two very very powerful guys. And when I

534
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: spoke to Duey Cooper for MK, he really even noted

535
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: that it's not it's the you know again, in the

536
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: general sense, it's a very similar fight to Tyson Fury,

537
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: but when you're really thinking about what you're trying to

538
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 1: solve for, it's quite different. So I just feel like,

539
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: if you're Francis, you got to put this fight on

540
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: your terms as best you can. And to me, that's

541
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: making Anthony Joshua fight, like literally fight you off, getting

542
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: off the ropes. So you're gonna be carrying his weight,

543
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: You're gonna get your bicep controlled for he's gonna be

544
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: resetting wrestling angles on you, using his head to drive

545
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: you over some aero spence tactics a little bit along

546
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: those lines. Let's see what he does. Let's see what

547
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: he does, all right.

548
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: Let's bring this thing home here, Luke, it's time to

549
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 2: make the prediction. It's time to get realistic. The problem is,

550
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of elements to this fight that I

551
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: thought were unrealistic. Only in Gano is proving us wrong.

552
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: Step by step. I mean, I'm trying to imagine what

553
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: we would say about him if he goes in there

554
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: and knocks out Anthony Joshua.

555
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: It would be it would.

556
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: Be so incredible. Yet, Luke, I don't want to put

557
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: that pressure on him because the story is already insanely

558
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: incredible getting into this fight as we laid out, is

559
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: can he win it? I think he can, But I

560
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: think the odds are telling you the true story of

561
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: this fight. The difference in athleticism and obviously technique and

562
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: pure boxing experience. Caning Godu get a knockdown? It's certainly possible.

563
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: It's gonna be more possible against Joshua than he did

564
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: against Fury, which he did. I still think though, we're

565
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: headed to a similar result, a close surviving win for

566
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: Joshua by decision in which he does get off big punches.

567
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: He does gain his respect against Anghanhu. He is also

568
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: covering up and sheltering himself at times, but he survives

569
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: the danger. I think, Luke, we're gonna look at an

570
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: zero to two in Ghanu, but it's all gonna be positive,

571
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: like it was after the Fury fight. It's all gonna

572
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: be okay. He didn't get those two against the two

573
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 2: greatest heavyweights of this modern era. But what about Wilder?

574
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: What about Joseph Parker? What about whomever?

575
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: Right?

576
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: What about that inevitable Fury rematch that I feel like

577
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: inevitably is gonna happen in the next eighteen months. Give

578
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: me Anthony Joshua by unanimous decision, but in Ghanu will

579
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: earn his respect again.

580
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: I'll take Anthony Joshua as well. Anthony Joshua just should

581
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: not lose this fight, right, just shouldn't. But Francis has

582
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: a way of surprising everybody and beating the odds. So

583
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: give me Anthony Joshua winning. I do think in the

584
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: end he'll get his hand raised. I might go split decision,

585
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: but I also think BC could he ko Francis? I

586
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: don't think that's the craziest thing in the world. Could

587
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: Francis ko him? It seems unlikely, but I wouldn't rule

588
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: it out. I just feel like in the end, Anthony

589
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: Josh will get his hand raised, but Francis is gonna

590
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: make his mark.

591
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: Let's see big deal Friday. I believe the walk time

592
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: and for the main event is around dinner time on

593
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: the East Coast, about six pm Eastern time, although the

594
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: card begins around at eleven am. I'll be on HQ

595
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: Live afterwards. I believe we'll have some type of MK

596
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: post coverage of some form. But look, I'm fired up.

597
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here. I want to give the

598
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: people what they want, which is full frontal action.

599
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: Like the Dune popcorn cover. You know what I'm saying.

600
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: Like the Dune popcorn cover.

601
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: I wish I would have got one, so Luke got

602
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: my theater. They didn't offer them like at all. They

603
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: were like, no, we never received them.

604
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't believe them.

605
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: They must have known where I live. They must have

606
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: known this is something I'm into, right Yeah, all right, Hey,

607
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: that was Luke Thomas Is, Brian Campbell, Mikey Boremouth, CBS

608
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: Sports on the ones and twos. Thank you for joining us.

609
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: Big announcements to come. It's not an announcement about an announcement.

610
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: It's an announcement that's going to change our lives and

611
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: yours too. We out of here.

612
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: Thank you,