1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Welcome in Wins and Losses. I'm your host, Clay Travis. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: We are joined now by Miranda Divine of The New 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: York Post. You may have heard her interviewed on Clay 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: and Buck some over the past few years. You certainly 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: have probably seen her on Fox News. I believe they 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: should rescind all of the Russia Collusion Politzer Prizes and 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: give them to her. And during the course of this conversation, 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: I bet you're going to end up agreeing with me. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: So thank you to Miranda for joining us. And Miranda, 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: before we dive into your book, Laptop from Hell, the 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: whole New York Post story, all of that, what's your background? 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: How did you come to be writing for the New 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: York Post? Where did you grow up? What is your 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: journalism background? Kind of let people know more about you. Honestly, 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: I would like to know too. I'm not that expert 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: on your past history here. Well, Clay, thanks for having me, 17 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: and I suppose it will be confusing to tell you 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: that I was born in Jamaica, Queens, even though the 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: accent is obviously not from there, and my parents were 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: journalists here, and then we moved to Tokyo, where I 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: spent six years at an American school and had a 22 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: very strong American accent. And then we moved to Australia, 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: which is my parents or my mother's homeland, and I 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: got an Australian accent overnight pretty much. And then I 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: did a mass degree as a as a detour, and 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: always wanted to be a journalist, and my parents had 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: said no, no, don't do it, but I ended up 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: they were back in America. My father was working to 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: the Reader's Digest, he was an editor there, and I 30 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: ended up coming back here to go to Northwestern University. 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: I did a journalism degree or masters to one year, 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: and then I bounced around a bit and ended up 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: at the Boston Herald and where I spent a very 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: pleasant couple of years three years, and then I went 35 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: back to Australia, got married, spent twenty years there, pretty 36 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: much raised our sons. And then my editor at the 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: time and the newspaper I was at in Sydney was 38 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: transferred to New York to become editor of the New 39 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: York Post, Carl Allen, and he was legendary editor in 40 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: Australia and then here, and he at the end of 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: his tenure he said to me, why don't you come 42 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: over and just come over for eighteen months covered the election, 43 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: and that was the twenty twenty election. So I came 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: here in twenty nineteen and basically the Posts minies day. 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: So we've been here ever since. Okay, So, first of all, Australia, 46 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: and this is a stupid American question. We're going to 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: be married, and unless my wife will use me in 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: the next year, which is always possible, we're gonna hit 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: twenty years. We've got three boys. Everything else. Before we 50 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: even dive into the New York Post story, if I 51 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: were going to Australia for two weeks and I was 52 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: taking my family fourteen twelve eight, three boys, where would 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: you say you should fly into? Where would you say 54 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: you absolutely have to see? Like if I had two 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: weeks to go to Australia because I'm thinking about taking 56 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: my wife on our twentieth wedding anniversary and I've always 57 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: wanted to go, I've never been. What would you say, 58 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: as an Australian to me an American who's never been before, 59 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: you absolutely have to see this. Well, I'm biased because 60 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: the city that I've spent the most time in is 61 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Sydney and it's absolutely beautiful. But with your kids, I 62 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: would definitely take them up to Queensland, to the Gold Coast. 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: There are a lot of you know, sort of Disney 64 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: World style places, absolutely stunning beaches. And then you can 65 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: go further north and into some pretty wild sort of 66 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: kadow country and meet some Aboriginals and and you know, 67 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: going to sort of outback Australia, which is pretty cool. 68 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: I mean, if you could get onto a station and 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: outback station, you know, a huge like a huge cattle 70 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: ranch sort of thing, but was probably sheep, that would 71 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: be an amazing experience. But I would also say, if 72 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: you've got two weeks, you should explore the region, So 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: go to New Zealand, go to a place called Queenstown, 74 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: which is just absolutely spectacularly beautiful. So yeah, that's my advice. 75 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: All right, that's on my that's on my list. I 76 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: literally jotted all of that down as you were talking. 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: I bet there's a lot of other Americans who similarly 78 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: would love to take a trip to Australia and also 79 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: maybe New Zealand, although it's been so crazy during COVID 80 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: in both places that kind of turned me off a 81 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: little bit. But I want to now dive into So 82 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: you come to the United States in twenty nineteen to 83 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: work at the New York Post. We know, and this 84 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: is kind of putting the time frame out there, and 85 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: it certainly jump in and correct me if at any 86 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: point I'm wrong. In December of twenty nineteen, the Joe 87 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: Biden son, Hunter Biden's laptop is turned over to the FBI. 88 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: Right the John Paul, the laptop repairman, says that Hunter Biden, 89 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: he thinks he's not gonna have great vision, shows up 90 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: with this laptop, turns it into him to get repaired, 91 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: and while it is there it is he comes and 92 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: becomes aware of what's on this laptop, contacts the FBI 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: after Hunter Biden doesn't show up, doesn't pay for it, 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: doesn't come back to reclaim it, and shares it with 95 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: the FBI. In December of twenty nineteen, you become aware 96 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that this laptop exists, allegedly exists, let's say at the time. 97 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: When when do you first become aware, Hey, this thing 98 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: is out there. Not until the beginning of VOLD Target 99 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: twenty when I got a series of text messages from 100 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani's lawyer Bob Costello and Rudy Giuliani had been 101 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: sent them the sort of hard drive the copy of 102 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: the laptop in August of twenty twenty. So this is now, 103 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, nine months after John Paul mac Isaac has 104 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: handed over the device the laptop to the FBI, but 105 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: very cleverly kept a copy of it, and he only 106 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: contacted the FBI eight months after Hunter Biden abandoned the 107 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: laptop at his store and it became his legal property. 108 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: And so I get this text message late at night. 109 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: I've been talking to Rudy as soon as I came 110 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: to New York. I cultivated Rudy Giuliani because, well because 111 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: I knew of his proximity to Donald Trump and that 112 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: he knows everybody in New York. But also I had 113 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: lived here back in the the you know, the bad 114 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: old eighties with my parents, when New York was just 115 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: a hell hole, and so I had a huge amount 116 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: of respect for what he'd done to clean up the city. 117 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: So to me, he was an icon of New York. 118 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: And I was going to work for the New York Post. 119 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to become his friend, so I was sort 120 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: of doing that, and he now was trusting me and 121 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: given the interviews and so on, and so I think 122 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: I was top of mind when they'd had some difficulty. 123 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: That's a long story, but you know, they had contacted 124 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: a friend of mine at the New York Post earlier 125 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: and she'd she didn't have a copy of the hard drive, 126 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: but she'd been working on it. But the whole project 127 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: to hit a sort of legal stumbling point, and so 128 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: I think Rudy Giuliani and Bob Costello wanted it to 129 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: go to the Post, but they were just they'd come 130 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: to the end of their tether because it was now 131 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: so close, you know, to the election. It was a 132 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: month before the twenty twenty election, so they were going 133 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: to hand it over to the Daily Mail or some 134 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: other organization, and at the last minute, Rudy Giuliani said 135 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: to Bob just try him around it. So he tried 136 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: me late one night, and I loved it, and and 137 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, spent some time the next day talking to 138 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: both of them about it, and resolved that this was 139 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of above my pay grade. So I sent some 140 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: of the information and talked to my editor in chief, 141 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: Kole Allen, the Australian editor that I had that I 142 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: had this very good, long standing relationship with so it 143 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: was a mutual trust situation, and he immediately saw what 144 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: a you know what potential there was in this story. 145 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: So he just put his you know, all the best 146 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: journalists in the newsroom onto checking it down. We sent 147 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: someone down to Delaware to interview jump On Maciaac and 148 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: it was all systems go, and within five or six 149 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: days we had the first story up and running. Okay, 150 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: so you have been doing journalism for a while. Every 151 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: journalist has to have in some way a bullshit detector, right, 152 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: for lack of a better way of describing it, because 153 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: you've probably over the years been pitched all sorts of 154 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: fantastical This is the once in a lifetime story. This 155 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: is incredibly compelling, and probably over time you do some 156 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: research and you're like, okay, this isn't as it was 157 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: initially conveyed to me. When did you start to look 158 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: at the documents yourself and say, holy crap, this is 159 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: a monster story. The data is just voluminous of Hunter Biden, 160 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: this being officially his laptop, the videos, pictures, everything else. 161 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: Because in the back of your mind you had to 162 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: know that the Biden team was never going to be like, yeah, 163 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: you know what, you caught a red handed kind of 164 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: take me through that process in your mind of hey, 165 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: this thing exists, but could it really be real? And 166 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: working your way towards your own determination of the documents. Yeah, 167 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: well you're absolutely right, Clay that you know, after three 168 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: decades or more in journalism, I've wasted so much time 169 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: when I was younger in um, you know, being a 170 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: little too or not skeptical enough. You know, people come 171 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: to you with their stories and voluminous documents, and I've 172 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: wasted so much time until I find out at the 173 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: end that you know, it's just not worth a story. 174 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: So I now, you know, at the last ten years 175 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: or so, I just err on the side of just 176 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: ultra skepticism. I just anyone comes to me with the story, 177 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: I just immediately was in, oh, yeah, sure, I'm not 178 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: going to waste my time. I'm on this. I'll have 179 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: a quick glance at it. So, you know, ninety percent 180 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: of the stuff that comes to me, I will just dismiss. 181 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: This was different because, first of all, Rudy Giuliani, in 182 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: the sort of a year and a half, a couple 183 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: of years, i'd come to know him he'd never steered 184 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: me wrong. Bob Costello is an incredibly legitimate person, you know, 185 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: former assistant head of Criminal Investigations at the Southern District 186 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: of New York, very eminent lawyer. Brain like a steel trap. 187 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: So the two of them were very legitimate. The material 188 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: they were showing me, even before I had the laptop 189 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: just checked out, you know, just quick Google st searches 190 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: of dates and times and photographs and so on, just 191 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: on a very cursory level checked out. And then you know, 192 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: John Paul mac Isaac was a legitimate guy. He m 193 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, and as I've come to know him, I mean, 194 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: he's a very genuine person, a real patriot. He's a 195 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: Trump supporter, but that doesn't outlaw someone from having an 196 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: opinion and having legitimate material. And he was very concerned. 197 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: The reason he contacted Rudy Giuliani in the end, and 198 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: after originally contacting the FBI, was because he saw the president, 199 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: President Trump, who he'd voted for, getting ranked over the 200 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: coals over the Ukraine impeachment, and he knew that hot 201 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: in the laptop there was exculpatory evidence about Ukraine, about 202 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: the rhythma, you know, chapter and verse. He did a 203 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: really good forensic deep dive on that, and that was 204 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: very impressive. I mean I had his material, his email 205 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: that he sent to Bob Costello initially in August twenty six, 206 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: which really, I mean even today stands the test of time. 207 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: He pulled out of that laptop three of the most 208 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: crucial documents and narratives to do with Ukraine that are 209 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: as danning today or even probably more than they were then. 210 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: So all of this again, you know, we then UM, uh, 211 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, other reporters Emma Joe Morris, a terrific journalist 212 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: friend of mine, UM, she did some some excellent kind 213 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: of a due diligence UM, and other journalists that we 214 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: had did as well. UM. And so we were very 215 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: confident with those first UM that first week of stories 216 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: that the emails that we were referring to were legitimate. UM. 217 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: And then you know, I get a chance to actually 218 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: do it, a longer, deeper dive in it, and I 219 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: end up talking to oh sorry, from the very beginning, 220 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: I also had UM, I forgot two, also had tiny 221 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: Bob Lynski's UM material, all his that he'd handed over 222 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: to the FBI. I came into UM possession of that 223 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: early on, so I was able to cross match the 224 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: emails that came from you know, that Rudy, that Tony 225 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: bob Lynsky and Hunter Biden had in common, And on 226 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: top of that, Tony bob Lynsky had WhatsApp messages and 227 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: other documents that sort of Buttston augmented what was on 228 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: the laptop. And then you know, obviously talking to Tony 229 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: Boblinsky and other people who were recipients of those emails, 230 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: it just was just incontrovertible. This was a legitimate laptop. 231 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: This was Hunter Biden's laptop. On top of that, you know, 232 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: the night before we published October fourteen, twenty twenty, the 233 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: night before we had contacted that earlier that day um 234 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden by his lawyer, George Muzir, and that evening, 235 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: John Paul Maciaac gets the phone call from George Muzir. 236 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: We know it was George Muzir because John Paul Maciaac 237 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: in his computer shop had the presence of mind say, look, 238 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if you are who you say you are. 239 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: Can you please send me an email and your work email, 240 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: so then I know you're actually hard to bind lawyer 241 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: to just verify who you are, George Masir did that, 242 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: And what George Mazir asked Jumple mac Isaac for was 243 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: he said, I understand that you have a computer belonging 244 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: to my client and we like to have it back. 245 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: So you know, there were just it wasn't like one bombshell. 246 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: It was just a thousand points of light. With any 247 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: of these, um, it's material. We have vast troves of documents. 248 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: Um there's always, you know, countless ways that you verify it. 249 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: And I've just told you a few of them. And 250 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: now you know, I wrote a book on it, and 251 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: I've spent now you know, over two years in depth 252 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: looking at it. And there's not one element of this, 253 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: this this laptop that I have public or investigated that 254 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: has not come out to be completely legitimate. And of 255 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: course the fact that Joe Biden and Hunter Biden never 256 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: never denied that this was Hunter's laptop, and Hunter said 257 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: I could be in my laptop, you know, I might 258 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: have lost it, so I might have stolen it. They've 259 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: never denied it. They've never denied outrite any of the 260 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: information on it. And in fact, Joe Biden halfway through 261 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, I had the first story that we 262 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: wrote from the laptop was on that October fourteen story 263 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: was an email that was Hunter Biden's Ukrainian paymaster, who 264 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: was paying him a million dollars a year, thanked him 265 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: in this email for introducing him to his father in Washington, DC. 266 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: And that was in twenty fourteen, when Joe Biden was 267 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: Vice president. And I managed to find that sorry, twenty fifteen. 268 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: And so I managed to find later on as I 269 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: went further and further into the laptop. But this wasn't 270 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: just any O meeting. This was a dinner that Hunter 271 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: Biden had organized in April of twenty fifteen for his father, 272 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: then the Vice president, to meet his clients, prospective benefactors 273 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: from the Ukraine but also from Russia and Kazakhstan. And 274 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: he organized this dinner at a Georgetown restaurant called Cafe Milano. 275 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: And you know, so many emails and he says, o'h. 276 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: Ostensibly this is you know, supposed to be about you know, 277 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: the World Food Program that he's involved with. But don't 278 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, my dad's coming. Don't hill anyone, and you know, 279 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: they denied that this meeting ever happened. And then halfway 280 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: through twenty one, I published the story about the Cafe Milano, 281 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: and the Washington Post decides that they're going to fact 282 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: check me. Glenn Kestler and lowenb hauled. Glenn Kessler finds 283 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: out that actually the White House admits that Joe did 284 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: go to the dinner, but that he didn't go for 285 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: any nefarious purpose and only stayed a short time, which 286 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: is not true. He stayed for the entire dinner. I'm 287 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: told by people who were there, stayed for the entire dinner, 288 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: just didn't drink. Okay. I love all of this. I 289 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: want to dive into the timeline if we could, and 290 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: we're talking to Miranda Divine. I'm Clay Travis. This is 291 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: Wins and Losses, a deep dive into the New York 292 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: Post story on Hunter Biden, Joe Biden and how it 293 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: came to pass and the reaction to it. And my idea, 294 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: by the way, for everybody out there listening, is so 295 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: many of these details. You may have come on to 296 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: this story a year in, you might have come in 297 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: two years. A lot of people out there are still 298 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: trying to catch up. And I told you before we 299 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: started recording, Miranda, it's like a television series that you 300 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: might suddenly have watched an episode of in year three 301 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is interesting, but you don't 302 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: really know the background upon which it's based. So my 303 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: idea is to kind of ground this inner reality, to 304 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: get the timeline everybody understand it. So you published the 305 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: first story is at October fourteenth of twenty twenty. Yeah, okay, 306 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: all hell breaks loose. I want to go into all 307 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: hell breaking loose as you published, but I also want 308 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: to contextualize a couple of things that we now know 309 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: that are very important. The FBI was at the time 310 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: surveiling Rudy Giuliani. So not only did the FBI have 311 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden laptop since December of twenty nineteen when 312 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: it was handed over to them by John Paul Maciaac, 313 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: but also they were surveiling Rudy Giuliani, so in theory, 314 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: they were aware of everyone in the media that he 315 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: was talking to. And as point of fact, and I'm 316 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: sure you've seen this as the Twitter documents have come out, 317 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: the FBI actually conducted a briefing basically the night before 318 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: this story was coming out, while saying there may be 319 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: some Russian disinformation coming out to seed in the Twitter 320 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: in the Facebook sphere, We've seen Mark Zuckerberg come out 321 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: and talk about these briefings. We've seen the actual documents 322 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: from inside Twitter. Did you have any clue that the 323 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: FBI had at the time Rudy Giuliani under surveillance and was, 324 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: in theory aware of the communication that you were engaging 325 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: with Rudy Giuliani. Presumably they would have heard you and 326 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: or seen your interaction with him in some way, with 327 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: him under surveillance. Did you know about any of that 328 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: at the time, had no idea, and neither did Rudy Giuliani. 329 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: This was a COVID surveillance warrant and the FBI was 330 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: basically spying on his cloud, so they had access to 331 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: all his emails and messages at that time for about 332 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: two years. I mean they started when he became President 333 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: Trump's private lawyer. Whether or not they were really using 334 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: Rudy giuliania now and sorry, sorry to cut you off, Miranda. 335 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: Would they have been phone tapping him as well to 336 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: hear conversations or to your knowledge? Was this just like, hey, 337 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: they're getting every text message for in theory and email 338 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: that he would have been sending. Do you know, I 339 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: believe it was just a cloud. I think it's quite 340 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: easy for the FBI now to just send messages to 341 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, the Apple or whoever to get access to 342 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: people's Yeah, okay, that's interesting. Does that make you feel 343 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: as a journalist, as someone who was reporting on a 344 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: presidential election? I just want to focus on that for 345 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: a moment, Like that feels insanely dirty to me, because 346 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: they have sense we should mention this too. Found out 347 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: that Rudy Giuliani violated no law, and they have said, hey, 348 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: we're not bringing any charges. So they got a wire 349 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: tap potentially, I think it's fair to say, under unsavory conditions, 350 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: investigated him, determined that he was doing nothing wrong, and 351 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: in theory, I'm presuming you would have been texting with 352 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani and emailing, right, so they were able to 353 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: then keep trapp tabs on you and any other journalist 354 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: that he was talking to. Does that make you feel 355 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: dirty that the United States government was able to be 356 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: basically snooping into all of your communications, especially when you're 357 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: a journalist trying to get a truthful story out. Oh, 358 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: for sure. But I mean, I guess you know most 359 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: of the sources that I speak to, UM, you know, 360 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: for a long time now we just assume that someone's 361 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: listening in it. It might unparanoid, but we use encrypted apps. 362 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: You know. I think Britty Juliani was always very careful 363 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: about what he said. He's just not someone who really 364 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: writes a lot on text and neither way. I guess 365 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: it makes you want to just meet face to face 366 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: almost right, so that in theory you can you can 367 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: talk open. How crazy is that that you have to 368 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: be concerned about the FBI as a journalist, that you 369 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: have to be concerned about the FBI snooping on you 370 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: such that you want to meet in person as opposed 371 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: to even engaging in a phone conversation. Well, it's crazy, 372 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: but we've seen that the FBI has been raiding journalists, 373 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: raiding lawyers. Um. You know, attorney client privilege means nothing, 374 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: Journalistic sources meant nothing. They raided Project Veritas and took 375 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: all their their phones, with all their you know, confidential sources. 376 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 1: There's just doesn't seem to be any restrictions there are, 377 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: There are no taboos anymore. So look, what we know 378 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: is that Rudy Giuliani was under I call it false pretenses. 379 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: He was under surveillance. His house was raided, his home 380 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: and his office were raided. I think it was twenty 381 00:23:54,160 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: twenty one. All his devices were seized, and then quietly 382 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: two years later, more than two years later, two and 383 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: a half years later, they returned all his devices and 384 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: they just said that there were no charges. This he 385 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: was being looked at by the FBI over Foreign Agent 386 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: Registration Act violations or alleged violations, which they found there 387 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: weren't any violations. But ironically that's the exact same violations 388 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: that Hunter Biden is being looked at by the Delaware 389 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: US Attorney. But anyway, so Rudy Giuliani, we know he's 390 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: under surveillance during the time that I was speaking to him, 391 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: but more importantly, in August of twenty twenty, he was 392 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: under surveillanced by the FBI when John Paul Maackiazac sent 393 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: that initial very voluminous and detailed email to him with 394 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: screenshots from the laptop talking about Ukraine and his concerns 395 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: about national security. So the FBI had that. They also, 396 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: well I don't know if they had it. I mean, 397 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: maybe they're lazy and they had this surveillance weren't and 398 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: didn't see it, So I can't. I can't definitively say 399 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: that the FBI saw that email, but they certainly had 400 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: access to it because they were spying on Rudy. They 401 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: would have also had access to mine messages with Rudy. 402 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: One in particular. Most of them were pretty anodyne, but 403 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: one of them in particular would have tipped them off 404 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: that The New York Post was going to publish. So um. 405 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: And you know, the FBI had had the laptop since 406 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen. They had interviewed John pulmac Isaac twice. 407 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: They knew he was a legitimate guy. Um. They they 408 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: presumably had done some research on him. They knew that 409 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: what was on the laptop was genuine, and they had 410 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: buried it. We now know from FBI whistleblowers who came 411 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: forward to Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson that they that 412 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: they were there were people within the FBI, within the 413 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: Washington's Field office, who buried anything to do with the 414 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden laptop or anything to do any information that 415 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: was derotory about Joe Biden, for instance, including Hunter Biden's 416 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: former business partner Tony Bobolynsky, who I mentioned before, who 417 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: I had all his material. He'd come forward to the 418 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: FBI a week or so before the twenty twenty election 419 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: voluntarily handed over the contents of his phone which I had, 420 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: and also he had a five and a half hour 421 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: interview with them and told them about his concerns about 422 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: the influenced peddling operation that Joe Biden and his son 423 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: and his brother Jim Biden had been carrying on to 424 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: do with China, because Tony Bobolynsky was involved in the 425 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: China deals. And so the FBI also we know from 426 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: whistleblowers buried that. Okay, up, and they start to cut 427 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: you off. I'm gonna get into that in a second, 428 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: but just to me, the essence of the question here, Miranda, 429 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: and you've laid it out, but I just kind of 430 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: want to sum it up is the FBI had had 431 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: this laptop since December of twenty nineteen. They knew that 432 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: it was real based on talking to John Paul mciaac, 433 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: just based on the voluminous degree of incriminating behavior and 434 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: just also specific behavior. This couldn't have been the pictures, 435 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: the video, like it couldn't have been made up, all right, 436 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: I mean, and again they knew that it was real 437 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: from December of twenty nineteen. They are they then have 438 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: trumped up charges basically to be able to surveil Rudy Giuliani. 439 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: As a result, they know that your New York Post 440 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: story is coming out. They are telling all of the 441 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: big tech companies, hey, Russian disinformation is coming out. So 442 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm curious how you would analyze this someone at the FBI. 443 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: It's possible, right that the lower level FBI people who 444 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: are giving these sermons to the big tech companies about 445 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: Russian disinformation, they may not have known. There's a possibility 446 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: there's different investigations going on and they didn't know about 447 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: the laptop or the specifics of it. Let's give them 448 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of benefit of the doubt here. But 449 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: someone at the FBI, maybe it's Christopher Ray, someone certainly 450 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: at the very apex of the FBI, knew this laptop 451 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: was real and allowed a false information campaign to be 452 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: waged against your New York Post story. To me, that's 453 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: the essence of this question. Who ordered that code read 454 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: who knew the laptop was real and then used every 455 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: asset they could, including the FBI itself to protect Joe Biden. 456 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden from this troop to coming out. Is that 457 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: kind of to me? That's the essence of this story 458 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: right now, as all of this information has come out, 459 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: somebody at the FBI knew this was real and prevented 460 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: the truth from coming out. Who was that? That's the 461 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: crux of this story to me, that's the sixty four 462 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: thousand dollar question. And like Watergate, the cover up by 463 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: the FBI, inclusion with the social media companies and probably 464 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: the CIA or former CIA operatives they were involved in 465 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: bearing this story. The cover up is worse than even 466 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: the corruption that we've uncovered from the Biden family. And 467 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: the FBI basically had warned Twitter and Facebook during the 468 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: weekly meetings before the twenty twenty election to expect hack 469 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: and league operations by Russia, and Twitter was warned that 470 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: they would probably involve Hunter Biden and probably happened or 471 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: likely happened in October. Facebook was told warned, we know 472 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: from Mark Zuckerberg talking to Joe Rogan was warned also 473 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: to be on high I look for a dum progression 474 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: propaganda in October before and that's why I think this 475 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: is so important Miranda, because I understand why people are 476 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: angry at Twitter and Facebook. But if you were a 477 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: mid level employee at Twitter and Facebook and your FBI 478 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: came to you and said, hey, we know, based on 479 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: our investigation that Russian dis info is coming based on 480 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: allegations surrounding Hunter Biden and Joe Biden in their relationship, 481 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: there's going to be doctored documents and everything else. When 482 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: your story dropped, they would have seen this and said, oh, 483 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: my goodness, this is exactly what we've been warned about, 484 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: which is why the nefarious actions of the FBI are 485 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: so galling, because they took advantage of I really think 486 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: they played Facebook and Twitter for fools. But also, if 487 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in this position, Miranda, if I had 488 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: been twenty eight or thirty two and I'm a midlevel 489 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: employee at Twitter and the FBI is sharing this information 490 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: with me, and they've already seated this idea of your 491 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: democracies in peril because of Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani 492 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: and everybody else, like you can see why they reacted 493 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: the way that they did. Right now, I mean, it's 494 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: easy to make them villains, but I think the FBI 495 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: is a supreme arch villain here, and really Twitter and 496 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: Facebook were just stooges getting played. Yeah, I think you 497 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: can say that, particularly when Twitter had as its deputy 498 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: general counsel a guy called James Baker, who had been 499 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: the general counsel, which is top lawyer at the FBI 500 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: during all the Russia collusion hoax stuff. You know, he 501 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: was front and center. He was the guy who drafted 502 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: the memo for James Comee about Hillary Clinton. He was 503 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: the one who brought in the Alpha Bank nonsense and 504 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: all the other sort of nonsense stuff that turned out 505 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: to be false, the Steel grossier and some one at 506 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: about Donald Trump being a Russian asset. That was James Baker. 507 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: He's a dirty player, and he somehow he gets basically 508 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: has to resign from the FBI and low and behold 509 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: about a year before the election lest he shows up 510 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: at Twitter as their number two lawyer. And he was, 511 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: we know now from the Twitter files, instrumental in getting 512 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: Twitter to censor The New York Post after we published 513 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: our first story on the Hunter Biden laptop and lock 514 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: the New York Post. I'm sorry, I want to go 515 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: to next. So October fourteen, twenty twenty, the story breaks. 516 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure you were expecting it to be a bombshell, 517 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: but all hell broke loose, even in a way that 518 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: I don't think you would have anticipated. What was that 519 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: experience like to have that story happen and then the 520 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: results and maybe tell people who weren't necessarily following this 521 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: minute by minute what happened to the New York Post 522 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: when the story comes out to you, To everyone involved 523 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: in the story, well, we knew it was a huge story. 524 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: We knew that it was incredibly damaging to one of 525 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: the two candidates for president. It was three weeks before 526 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: the election, and so you know, it took a lot 527 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: of DUTs for I have to say, my top editor 528 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: to decide to go with it, and so we were bracing. 529 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: We had decided, rather than all the editors had decided, 530 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: rather than publishing the night before as we normally do, 531 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: like ten o'clock at night, we would hold back and 532 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: publish in the paper but online only at five o'clock 533 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: in the morning. And immediately journalists on Twitter, you know, 534 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: people like Maggie Happman from The New York Times and 535 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: people from NBC and so on, started talking about it. 536 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: And sharing the story because it was huge on anyone's 537 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: standard journalistically, this was a massive scoop. Suddenly you had 538 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: the actually a guy from Facebook who was a former 539 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: Democratic operative. He pops up and he says on Twitter 540 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: and he says, we are I can't remember his exact words, 541 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: but throttling and stopping the spread of this story, pending 542 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: fact checks, not going to make any comment, not going 543 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: to link on this story. And then shortly after that, 544 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: Twitter did the same thing. And effectively, I mean they've 545 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: got all sorts of words they use, like producing the 546 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: spread or something. I don't know what their jargon is, 547 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: but effectively they just sense it. They just killed the 548 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: story there and then. And you know, I don't know 549 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: if people understand, but with newspapers now, so much of 550 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: what we do is online, and it cost us a 551 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: lot of money. The fact that our you know, our 552 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 1: story was locked down. Account was locked for over two 553 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: weeks until a couple of days before the election. It 554 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: really for the New York Post, which is the country's 555 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: oldest newspaper, the third largest bicirculation. It was just an 556 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: incredible audacity by these social media giants to do this, 557 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: and we now see from the Twitter files, the internal 558 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: communications inside Twitter, and some of what Mark Zuckerberg told 559 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: us went on in Facebook. They didn't take this lightly. 560 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: They knew that this was huge, but they were massaged 561 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: into it. The story had already been prebunked by the FBI. 562 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: If that grooming of Twitter and Facebook hadn't been happening 563 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: in the weeks before our story was published, they probably 564 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been bold enough to censor The New York Post. 565 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: But because they felt that they were operating on FBI instructions, 566 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: basically to save national security against Russian interference with the election. 567 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: They were willing servants of the intelligence community. And there 568 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: is something really dirty about the fact that he was 569 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: the FBI intervening for the second election in a row, 570 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: and with just completely dishonestly. They knew that our story 571 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: was real. You can't tell me that the people who 572 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: ordered the censorship of the post from the FBI did 573 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: not also know that what we were going to write 574 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: was real, no doubt. And I think that's what's so important. 575 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: A lot of people focus on Twitter and Facebook. Someone 576 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: at the FBI, maybe a group of people at the 577 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: FBI at the top again, just to reiterate, they knew 578 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: that your story was coming. They had known that your 579 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: story was coming for some time because they had Rudy 580 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: Giuliani under surveillance and they were aware of much of 581 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: his communications and the fact that he was trying to 582 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,919 Speaker 1: shop this evidence from the laptop which they had been 583 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: in possession of the FBI themselves since December of twenty nineteen. 584 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: All Rudy Giuliani was shopping was another version of the 585 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: information that they already had, which, by the way, if 586 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: John Paul Mike Isaac hadn't made a copy of what 587 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: was on the Hunter Biden laptop, no one would have 588 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: ever believed him about this, right, And the FBI would 589 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: have probably destroyed the laptop and never admit that there 590 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: was anything on there that was in any way incriminating. Right, 591 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: So someone ordered a fix in a big way. I 592 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: think this makes and I'm curious what you think, Miranda, 593 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: And obviously you're involved in writing this story and you've 594 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: done an incredible job, But I've been saying this makes 595 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: Watergate seem like jaywalking, right, Like when you actually consider 596 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: the complicity involved from the FBI and where exactly and 597 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: how many different people were involved in this conspiracy of 598 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: silence to protect Joe Biden and potentially rigged the twenty 599 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: twenty election. I mean, it is a story the likes 600 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 1: of which most of the people listening to us right 601 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: now have never experienced in our lifetimes. Yes, and it 602 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: has the added element of the threat national security that 603 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and his family's influenced peddling operation had during 604 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 1: the eight years that he was vice president and his 605 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: son and brother were running around the world partnering with 606 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: Chinese Belton road Front organizations allied with the Chinese military 607 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,919 Speaker 1: and military intelligence. And also were you know, a hunter 608 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: was getting paid, as I said, eighty three thousand dollars 609 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: a month from this corrupt energy company in Ukraine for 610 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: sitting on their board. And you know, the only reason 611 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: that he was getting money from any of these people 612 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: was it was a bribe paid to the family of 613 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: the second most powerful man in the world, Joe Biden. 614 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: And Joe Biden had been appointed by Barack Obama to 615 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: be his point man in and his point man in Ukraine, 616 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: and both of those countries were extremely lucrative to the 617 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: tune of tens of millions of dollars to his family 618 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: and you know Joe Biden was involved in that. And 619 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: that's what the value of the laptop is that it 620 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: shows you how much Joe Biden was involved. He met 621 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: with Hunter Biden's overseas business partners. He met them in Beijing, 622 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: he met them in Washington, DC. He invited them to 623 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: his home at the Vice Presidential residence at the Naval Observatory. 624 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: He met them, as I said, Cafe Milano. He met 625 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: them in his White House office, so he was intimately involved. 626 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: He was described as the big guy in one of 627 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: their emails who was going to get a cut, a 628 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,240 Speaker 1: ten percent cut of one of these Chinese deals. Tony 629 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,240 Speaker 1: Bob o Lynsky, hunter Biden's former business partner, swears blind 630 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: that the big guy is Joe Biden, and that's backed 631 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: up by other material on the laptop. There's so much, 632 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: you know, invoices and bank statements that show you the 633 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: money flow, where it's coming from the meetings, Joe Biden's involvement. 634 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: And then you have to add to that the Treasury 635 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: Department documents, these so called suspicious activity reports that banks 636 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: are required to file when money that comes through into 637 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: their bank accounts of American citizens comes from dodgy sources, 638 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: suspect sources overseas, and there were dozens of those suspicious 639 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: activity reports filed about the Bidens and that was unveiled 640 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: by Chuck Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson when they did 641 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: their incredibly good investigation, which came out in September of 642 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Before I even knew about the laptop. I 643 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: read their report, their first report, and it was chapter 644 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: and verse. It was like the prelude to the laptop. 645 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: If you read that, then when you saw the laptop, 646 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: it became clear this was the flesh on the bones 647 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: that Chuckle and Ron Johnson and already put together about 648 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden corruption and Ukraine. And it just as 649 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: a little side note, the FBI also intervened to try 650 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: and derail and discredit that that Chuck Grasley and Ron 651 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: Johnson's investigation. In fact, when I started writing about it, 652 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: I was warned off and said, oh, no, that's Russian disinformation. 653 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: I was like, why it wasn't. What didn't seem to 654 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: me to be so. And what Ron Johnson told me 655 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 1: was that he was ambushed by the FBI with a 656 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: bogus defensive briefing. Ian I think it was August to 657 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty or late August early September twenty twenty, because 658 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff had complained to 659 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: the FBI that there was some sort of Russian disinformation 660 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: going on that was going to be derogatory about Joe 661 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: Biden in the Johnson Grassley investigation. And if you think 662 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: of the timing, August twenty six is when John Paulmaciaac 663 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: sent that voluminous email to Rudy Giuliani that could have 664 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: been I believe was intercepted by the FBI. So somehow 665 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: the Democrats are panicked around that time and they went 666 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 1: to the FBI and they said, we need you to 667 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: do something about the Johnson Grassley investigation because it's Russian disinformation. 668 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: Johnson gets ambushed by the FBI walking down the corridor. 669 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: His staff say, hey, there's a couple of FBI people 670 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: in your office. He goes back face start talking to 671 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: him about his investigation and people involved in it, saying 672 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: warning him that Russia is trying to spread disinformation. He 673 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: smelled a rat immediately. He said, that's not true. And 674 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,919 Speaker 1: if I see this in the media, I'll know that 675 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: you are just setting me up. Sure enough, a day 676 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: or two later, what happened. Story gets leaked to the 677 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: media that the Johnson Graduley investigation has been polluted by 678 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: Russian disinformation. We're talking to Miranda Vine New York Post. 679 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this to me is just incredibly compelling. And 680 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: again I'm just gonna keep saying, if they actually gave 681 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,240 Speaker 1: Pulitzers based on real news, then Miranda and her crew 682 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: at the New York Post should get all of them 683 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: that were given out for Russia collusion. They should be rescinded. 684 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of questions here. 685 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: Everything in these details is the exact same except instead 686 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: of Hunter Biden, Donald Trump Junior is the one with 687 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: the laptop. How does the media cover it if Donald 688 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: Trump Junior had been accused on a laptop of everything 689 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden, it's Donald Trump Junior 690 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: and Donald Trump exact same details. Otherwise this story is 691 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: covered how in the United States media it would have 692 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: been wall to wall just like the Steel dossier, the 693 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: Russia collusion anything that would have been true unlike those yeh, yeah, exactly. 694 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: So that's the irony is that they blew up and 695 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: one Pulleitzers, The Washington Post and the New York Times 696 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: one Pulletzer prizes for their coverage of the Russia collusion hoax, 697 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: which was proven after a two year investigation by Robert 698 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: Mueller to be completely baseless and seeded by Hillary Clinton's 699 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,240 Speaker 1: campaign to start with. So it was a Democrat dirty 700 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: tricks campaign that was aided and abetted by shadowy forces 701 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:49,319 Speaker 1: within the intelligence agencies. Probably the same people covered up 702 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: our story and covered up the Hunter Biden laptop, and 703 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: it would have been everywhere. But what we got instead 704 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: was the opposite. This time, we had four days, five 705 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: days after after story was published, there was this letter 706 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: openly one intelligence officials right who say that this is 707 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: all Russian disinformation. Yeah. Mostly they were former CIA and 708 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: of course led by John Brennan, James Clapper, the usual 709 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: truspect to perjured themselves in front of Congress. And these people, 710 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 1: fifty one of them put the weight of their very high. 711 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there were four or five former 712 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: CIA directors or acting CIA directors, and a whole lot 713 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: of other very high ranking former intelligence officials who should 714 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: hang their heads in shame for putting their name to 715 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: a scoreless letter that dishonestly said that the story that 716 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop had all the earmarks of a Russian 717 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,879 Speaker 1: information operation in effect, and the way that Politico, which 718 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: was first leaked that letter reported it was that this 719 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: was a Russian disinformation operation. But of course they used 720 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: weezel words since pretending that they weren't trying to convey 721 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: the impression. Of course they were, and it killed the 722 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: story stone dead in terms of the rest of the 723 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: media following it up. It was a very convenient figly 724 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: for the media to say, oh, no, we're not going 725 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: to cover this, it's Russian propaganda. And then, of course 726 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: a couple of days later you had Joe Biden had 727 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: to appear at that last debate against Donald Trump. Bad 728 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: timing for him, because of course Donald Trump waught up 729 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden laptop store and his meeting with the 730 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: Ukrainian paymaster, and Joe Biden just used that letter from 731 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: the fifty one dirty intelligence operatives and said, you know, 732 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: the intelligence community says that this is just a Russian 733 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: plant and turned the books back on Donald Trump. And 734 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: he got away with it. It got him off the hook. 735 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 1: He had gone to ground after our story refused to 736 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: answer questions hidden the basement, ran away from any questions, 737 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: and after that debate, he really was home free. So, Miranda, 738 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: and by the way, the Russian disinformation, why, I'm sure 739 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: you've seen some of these reports, and I hope some 740 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: of the people that are listening to us right now 741 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,280 Speaker 1: are finally seeing the light of day. But around fifty 742 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: percent of people, up to sixty percent I think I 743 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,920 Speaker 1: saw on a recent survey, actually still believe that this hoax, 744 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,879 Speaker 1: that this was a Russian disinformation hoax, and the Hunter 745 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,359 Speaker 1: Biden laptop is all made up. How frustrating is it 746 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: to you, not only that that argument was made, but 747 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: that substantial portions of the American population believe that this 748 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: is all a farce, that this entire story is not true. Well, 749 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredibly frustrating. I mean, it's very depressed 750 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: thing for America that that's happening. And it's not just 751 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: on their story. It's on COVID, it's on Ukraine, it's 752 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: on all sorts of things. And the reason is because 753 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 1: they've been propagandized by a completely corrupt establishment media. And 754 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: I count the New York Times in the Washington Post there, 755 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: but you know also ABC, CBS, you know, VIACOM, m CNN, MSNBC, etc. 756 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: They have a narrative, they have hired as experts, as consultants, 757 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: use these totally discredited Deep State people, whether it be 758 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: Brennan or Clapper or um you know, Peter Strock, Lisa Page. 759 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 1: These people are treated as heroes on CNN and MSNBC 760 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,840 Speaker 1: and as experts whose whose word is impeccable. In fact, 761 00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: they lied and uh and ran a complete Baganda mission. 762 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,359 Speaker 1: And on top of that you have social media, it 763 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 1: has just clamped down on the truth about these stories. 764 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 1: So you know, you have at least half the country 765 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: is ignorant. They only believe, they believe everything that they 766 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: read in the New York Times or the Washington Post. 767 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: And it's not just in America. I know, you know 768 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: from Australia that the leading news organizations in Australia they 769 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: rely on the reporting from the New York Times. They 770 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,759 Speaker 1: regard that has been gold standard. And so they are 771 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: completely ignorant about what's been going on in America. When 772 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,840 Speaker 1: it comes to Russia's collusion, Donald Trump, the Hunter Biden Laptop, 773 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,960 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's corruption, they don't really know any of that. 774 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: And that's the same across Europe and the rest of 775 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: the world. I would say, because you're not getting your 776 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,959 Speaker 1: information from social media, and you're not getting it from 777 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: what are regarded internationally as most credible news sources, because 778 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: the New York Times and so on, resting on the 779 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: laurels of their former reputations. What Miranda, when you now 780 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,880 Speaker 1: they're all suddenly coming out right, CBS, I think that 781 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,799 Speaker 1: a story. I'm sure you kind of just arch your 782 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 1: eyebrows up and they're like, oh, we did a research 783 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 1: project and we determined that the Hunter Biden laptop is authentic. 784 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: And then the New York Times they cover it, and 785 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: then Washington Post they all cover it years later. Is 786 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 1: that validation for you or is it more frustration for 787 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 1: you when you see these stories being written years after 788 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: you had shared the truth? Not really either, But you know, 789 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we know it's true. It doesn't matter whether 790 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 1: they say it is or it isn't. I roll my 791 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,280 Speaker 1: eyes a bit, but I'm glad that they've come on board. 792 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 1: But I note always that that they're doing it's it's 793 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 1: like a limited hangout. They just put out enough information 794 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,279 Speaker 1: because they know it's coming out anyway. They know their 795 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: readers are starting to ask, why don't we know about this? 796 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: It's leaking across the sort of iron wall that they've 797 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: built up between themselves and the truth. And they they 798 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,400 Speaker 1: know that Hunter Biden has been under investigation since twenty 799 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 1: eighteen by the US Attorney in Delaware. They know the 800 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 1: grand juries you know, has interviewed or had testify various 801 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: important witnesses, form the business partners of Hunter Biden and 802 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: so on. So they know that there's going to be 803 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,799 Speaker 1: a story and a possible indictment out of that, and 804 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: they need to get ahead of the story. That's why 805 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:48,760 Speaker 1: they've been um, you know, saying that certain limited parts 806 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: of the laptop are authentic, but they always put a 807 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: boiler plate paragraph down, you know, eight or ten parts, 808 00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: which paragraphs which says, you know, there's no evidence that 809 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: Joe Biden was involved. Well, that's just not true. They 810 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: now have the laptop. We've published voluminous information and it's 811 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: come from elsewhere of Joe Biden's involvement. Joe Biden told 812 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: the American people during the twenty twenty campaign that he 813 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: knew nothing about his son Hunter's overseas business dealings. That's 814 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 1: just palpably false. There's evidence that is now on the 815 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 1: public record of his meeting with you at least a 816 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: dozen of Hunter Biden's former business partners. There's also some 817 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:38,719 Speaker 1: evidence that I've published that Joe Biden financially benefited from 818 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, that they were shared debit cards, mingled finances, 819 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,400 Speaker 1: and that Hunter was paying to some of the bills 820 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: in Joe's at Joe's mansion, you know, the maintenance of 821 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: a painting, new shutters, new air conditioning, and so on, 822 00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:01,040 Speaker 1: because it's a very expensive estate to maintain. And he's 823 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,600 Speaker 1: also paying for a cell phone for Joe Biden. I 824 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,400 Speaker 1: only have the tip of the icebergs. There's just a 825 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: little bit of information of that in the laptop. But 826 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure that the Republican investigators will have access to 827 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,520 Speaker 1: bank accounts and so on. And that's important all that 828 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,520 Speaker 1: you're sharing there, because you actually and the New York 829 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:27,400 Speaker 1: Post did not cover as much of the sensational and 830 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 1: ridiculous private life of Hunter Biden, right. I mean, there's 831 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: scatters of information on that laptop. Nude videos, prostitution, the 832 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: drug use. I mean, all of that is very salacious, 833 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: but you guys, by your nature, said, okay, he's not 834 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,080 Speaker 1: the candidate who's running. What we're really focusing on is 835 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:54,719 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's improper involvement in larger international affairs, 836 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:59,520 Speaker 1: not on the personal peccadillos of a drug addict son. 837 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's important because there is an attack 838 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 1: sometimes where they say, well, Joe Hunter Biden doesn't have 839 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 1: an elected office, why should we care about anything with him? 840 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: And they try to focus on the personal failings. You 841 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:17,959 Speaker 1: guys specifically avoided trying to sensationalize those. Yeah, we did, 842 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,719 Speaker 1: and deliberately so because well, I mean a because the 843 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:30,280 Speaker 1: evidence that Joe Biden was compromised by China, Russia, you know, Ukraine, 844 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: these other countries was so bombshell that the fact that 845 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,000 Speaker 1: his son was a crack addict and you know, spent 846 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,319 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on hookers and drugs was kind of irrelevant. 847 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a you know, that's a salacious story, 848 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: and ordinarily you'd run it. But because the corruption angle 849 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,200 Speaker 1: and the national security angle just vastly overwhelmed that, we 850 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to have the two stories mixed up. We 851 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,920 Speaker 1: didn't want people to get distracted by the pawn and 852 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,520 Speaker 1: the hookers and the crack and not see the real story. 853 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,799 Speaker 1: We ran some pictures. We ran, you know, obviously a 854 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,240 Speaker 1: photo of Hunter with the crack pipe in his mouth asleep, 855 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: and a couple of other things like that, because that 856 00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:22,600 Speaker 1: was just showing visually what we had, that we had 857 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,360 Speaker 1: that this was real. It's significant in the evidence to 858 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,839 Speaker 1: your point, Yes, that it is real, right that these 859 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,120 Speaker 1: are Hunter Biden videos, and that it would be hard 860 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 1: to fake. And that's why that's important. But you're reporting 861 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,400 Speaker 1: is on the significant nature of Joe Biden's involvement. And 862 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,920 Speaker 1: I think that's so important because you'll get attacked now 863 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,879 Speaker 1: as there is an acknowledgment that the laptop is real, 864 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: some people will come out and say, well, why should 865 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,400 Speaker 1: we care about Hunter Biden. He's admitted he was a 866 00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 1: drug addict. Because of his relationships with foreign countries and 867 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: the way that that has implicated his father, the president 868 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,439 Speaker 1: of the United States. Yes, and also the fact that 869 00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:02,359 Speaker 1: he was a crack addict, it even more implausible that 870 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:07,360 Speaker 1: these foreign countries and these oligarchs would give him tens 871 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,400 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. He was his life was a 872 00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,320 Speaker 1: complete mess during this period. He was incapable of even 873 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, answering emails. For a lot of this, he'd 874 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 1: go up on benders, he'd be in rehab, he'd come 875 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,480 Speaker 1: back and be compassed for a little while, and then 876 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 1: he'd fall off the wagon again. So, um, you know 877 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,680 Speaker 1: his personal life, you know his divorce, his affairs, his 878 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,360 Speaker 1: problems were immense, and so there was no way that 879 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 1: he was a proper businessman. And you know that was 880 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,239 Speaker 1: important to make the point as well. But again, this 881 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,720 Speaker 1: is not a story. We never made it a story 882 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,720 Speaker 1: about Hunter Biden. It was always a story about Joe Biden. 883 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,239 Speaker 1: And that's something that James Comer, who's the chairman of 884 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: the Oversight Committee now Republican, is always making that point 885 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,400 Speaker 1: that this is about Joe Biden. But it is quite 886 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: a successful tactic by I guess the Biden apologists to 887 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,439 Speaker 1: continually push that point that you know, Hunter Biden isn't 888 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,319 Speaker 1: running for office, Hunter Biden isn't the president. You know, 889 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,320 Speaker 1: why don't you leave him alone? You know, he's had 890 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 1: a terrible problem with addiction and he's recovered, and you're 891 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,960 Speaker 1: just tormenting him, and he's a human being and so on. No, 892 00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel sorry for Hunter Biden, but the 893 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: fact is his laptop is a peep hole into a 894 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,680 Speaker 1: long standing corruption problem that the man who is now 895 00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,800 Speaker 1: the president has had for over four decades. As a 896 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: very influential senator from Delaware, head of the Foreign Relations Committee, 897 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 1: duchess by China. In his very earliest days back in 898 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:54,480 Speaker 1: the seventies, he was you know, pinpointed by the Chinese 899 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 1: Communist Party as a as a likely ally. They invited 900 00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: him to Chinese is one of the delegations to go 901 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,400 Speaker 1: over there. He went to the equivalent of Martha's vineyard. 902 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,040 Speaker 1: He came back. He was so embarrassing in his effusive 903 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: praise of China that the Weekly Standard at the time 904 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 1: just made a mockery of him. And as a senator, 905 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,280 Speaker 1: he was instrumental during the Clinton years in getting his 906 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:27,000 Speaker 1: reluctant Democrat colleagues to agree to China joining the World 907 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,520 Speaker 1: Trade Organization. I think it was in near two thousand 908 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,320 Speaker 1: or two thousand and one, and that had a really 909 00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: terrible effect on the American working class, on American manufacturing, 910 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,960 Speaker 1: on the American center at which it lasts obviously to 911 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,440 Speaker 1: this day. So that was Joe Biden, and he's always 912 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 1: carried water for China, boasted always about his hours of 913 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 1: face to face time with President Jijing Ping, and so 914 00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 1: I just think that that story is terrifying for America. 915 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,480 Speaker 1: And we know now right to this present day, the 916 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:14,800 Speaker 1: classified document scandal revolving around Joe Biden now links and 917 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,480 Speaker 1: I think this is why he's been so panicky. It 918 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 1: links him to the Hunter Biden investigation that's been going 919 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: on in Delaware because there are items in that laptop 920 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,920 Speaker 1: that could well appear to be only could have come 921 00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,240 Speaker 1: from classified information. And I'm not going to go too 922 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,320 Speaker 1: far with that because I don't know for sure. But 923 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:45,440 Speaker 1: I published this week an email from the laptop that 924 00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,440 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden had written to his business partner, Devon Archer, 925 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: and it was an uncharacteristic email. It was very long, 926 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 1: it was very detail, very informed. It listed twenty two 927 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,920 Speaker 1: point It's about Ukraine's political situation and had detailed information 928 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:12,160 Speaker 1: geopolitical strategic information predicting an escalation of Rush's destabilation, destabilization 929 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,160 Speaker 1: can bang talking about you know, natural gas, what will 930 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,760 Speaker 1: happen with energy prices in the UK, etc. And that 931 01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,720 Speaker 1: all comes to the four when you know that in 932 01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,840 Speaker 1: that first tranch of classified documents discovered at University of 933 01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania in Joe Biden's office, we're told by sources who 934 01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:38,520 Speaker 1: told CNN that those related to Ukraine, to the United Kingdom, 935 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: and to Iran, and so two of those countries are 936 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:48,360 Speaker 1: mentioned in this you know, this email that stands out 937 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:52,520 Speaker 1: because it's unlike anything that Hunter Biden has written in 938 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:58,160 Speaker 1: the nine years of this this laptop. It coincides with 939 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: He's just about to join the Barisma board, as Devon 940 01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 1: Archer is, and his father is just about days away 941 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,720 Speaker 1: from going on his first trip to or an early 942 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: trip to the Ukraine, and presumably Joe Biden got a 943 01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,120 Speaker 1: classified briefing on the situation in Ukraine before he went, 944 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:25,480 Speaker 1: and Hunter's email to Devon Archer has a distinct flavor 945 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:29,080 Speaker 1: on an official briefing and maybe even a classified briefing. 946 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Miranda Divine is with us. I'm Clay Travis. This is 947 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,480 Speaker 1: wins and losses. You have a master of journalism, You've 948 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:40,080 Speaker 1: been in journalism for decades. What does it say about 949 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,960 Speaker 1: the state of United States journalism that the New York 950 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post. Let's use those two for example, 951 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,960 Speaker 1: because they consider themselves to be the paragon of the 952 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: journalistic establishment. You've referred to both here. They put democracy 953 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,640 Speaker 1: dyes in darkness at the top of the Washington Post, 954 01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 1: for God's sakes. When Donald Trump was elected, the New 955 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,560 Speaker 1: York Times all the news that's fit to print. What 956 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,440 Speaker 1: does it say about those two lions of the liberal 957 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: establishment that they wouldn't cover this story, that they would 958 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:15,720 Speaker 1: consider this to be unworthy of contemplation by their audience 959 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,320 Speaker 1: in the lead up to a twenty twenty election. Well, 960 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: I think it tells you that they have been thoroughly corrupted. 961 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,800 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, people will say, well, of 962 01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,960 Speaker 1: course she's going to say that because their rivals. But 963 01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,560 Speaker 1: I think any fair assessment of the way that they 964 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,760 Speaker 1: have handled themselves since at least since Donald Trump came 965 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:43,400 Speaker 1: on the scene, publishing false stories, publishing anonymous anonymously sourced 966 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:53,760 Speaker 1: from obviously intelligent sources that were planting misinformation, disinformation, they 967 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: have they have swallowed hook line and sinker that the 968 01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:04,760 Speaker 1: whole far left culture all ideology. But they've also obviously 969 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:10,480 Speaker 1: there's been a decision made to just fall in and 970 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,360 Speaker 1: lose their skepticism when it comes to any dirt that 971 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,480 Speaker 1: they were provided when it came to Donald Trump and 972 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:23,080 Speaker 1: then become pure as a driven snow and very skeptical 973 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to any information that's derogatory about Joe Biden, 974 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:31,520 Speaker 1: even if that information is backed up a thousand different ways. 975 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:36,800 Speaker 1: They have never done a proper investigation of the laptop. Never. 976 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 1: The Washington Post talks about having authenticated some of it, 977 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,840 Speaker 1: but even then, the copy of the hard drive that 978 01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:50,080 Speaker 1: they have came through a very suspect avenue. It cannot suspect, 979 01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,120 Speaker 1: but it came from It didn't come direct They didn't 980 01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,320 Speaker 1: get one directly from John Paul Maciaac. They've got a 981 01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,040 Speaker 1: copy of the hard drive that had gone through several 982 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,360 Speaker 1: hands to do with a guy called Jack Maxie and 983 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,040 Speaker 1: who you know, and people who people who had copied 984 01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,200 Speaker 1: it and added things to it, and you know, and 985 01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,520 Speaker 1: Nat gives The Washington Post a sort of get out 986 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,600 Speaker 1: of Joel free card because they can say, well, you know, 987 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,320 Speaker 1: the chain of custody on this isn't very good because 988 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:22,120 Speaker 1: the hard drive that they've chosen to base their reporting 989 01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: on is not the snow white, crystal clear original hard 990 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 1: drive that John Paul Maciaac gave US, and so it's 991 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,960 Speaker 1: almost like they're setting themselves up with a sort of 992 01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,440 Speaker 1: a backdoor to get away with it. It just seems 993 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,560 Speaker 1: otherwise it's just incredibly sloppy reporting, because John Paul maciac 994 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,720 Speaker 1: would have given them a copy. And John pallmac Isaac's 995 01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,880 Speaker 1: now written a book. He's put in there a lot 996 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,320 Speaker 1: of detail about, you know, his interactions with the FBI, 997 01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: and some of that's quite sinister. Now. When he told 998 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 1: me about how he felt that the FBI agents who 999 01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 1: came and took the laptop and a copy of the 1000 01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:04,240 Speaker 1: drive from him back in December twenty nineteen, he felt 1001 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 1: that they were threatening him or warning him to keep 1002 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,439 Speaker 1: his mouth shut. And I thought, oh, you know, he's 1003 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,480 Speaker 1: just a bit paranoid, as a lot of whistleblowers are, 1004 01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,000 Speaker 1: because they get scared and they haven't been they haven't 1005 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:19,680 Speaker 1: dealt with law enforcem before, and they get frightened and 1006 01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:22,080 Speaker 1: and they've seen too many movies. So that's what I thought, 1007 01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,160 Speaker 1: So I dismissed. I didn't him write what he said, 1008 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,600 Speaker 1: but with the benefit of hindsight now and now seeing 1009 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,920 Speaker 1: from the whistleblowers from the Twitter files, just how dirty 1010 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:37,000 Speaker 1: the elements of the FBI were certainly the Washington Field office. 1011 01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: I now really believe that his instincts were right, because 1012 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,600 Speaker 1: when those FBI agents were leaving him with the laptop, 1013 01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,400 Speaker 1: one of them turned and said to him, in our experience, 1014 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,680 Speaker 1: nothing bad happens to people who don't talk. And he 1015 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,680 Speaker 1: just that just disquieted him. And as he thought about it, 1016 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 1: he thought, well, that was a warning me not to talk. 1017 01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: And I think they thought that he wouldn't talk. And 1018 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,560 Speaker 1: because they took the laptop, but plus the hard drive 1019 01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,320 Speaker 1: that he'd made a copy of, they must have thought 1020 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,160 Speaker 1: that that was it, that they had everything. They didn't 1021 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: realize he'd made another copy, because copy Miranda, they would 1022 01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: have buried the story and claimed that this laptop basically 1023 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,200 Speaker 1: never existed exactly, because that's all they've done. We haven't 1024 01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,080 Speaker 1: heard from the laptop. When I think it was Senator 1025 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:32,360 Speaker 1: Grasley or another senator asked someone at the FBI in 1026 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,160 Speaker 1: a hearing under oath, whereas the laptop. They couldn't answer. 1027 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:42,920 Speaker 1: They have they have effectively canceled the laptop. They've canceled 1028 01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,480 Speaker 1: Tony Bobolynsky. Tony Bobolynsky, you would think would be a 1029 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,760 Speaker 1: prime witness for the grand jury that's going on in 1030 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:56,560 Speaker 1: Delaware looking at Hunter Biden Gervisly's business dealings, and he 1031 01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 1: knew all about the China, one of these China deals, 1032 01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,280 Speaker 1: and that he's never been subpoena, he's never been called 1033 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,160 Speaker 1: as a witch. It's crazy, Uh, Miranda, you mentioned John 1034 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,960 Speaker 1: Paul Maciaac being feared for his safety. Have you feared 1035 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 1: for your safety at all during the reporting on this laptop? Um? Look, 1036 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:22,160 Speaker 1: it's it's run through my mind, but you know I don't. 1037 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not too worried. No, but who knows. 1038 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,480 Speaker 1: You're not suicidal. You're not contemplating death, by the way, 1039 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,720 Speaker 1: for everybody out there listening right now. Correct, No, exactly exactly. 1040 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 1: You're not planning on jumping off a bridge. You're not 1041 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,480 Speaker 1: planning on vanishing for everybody out there. You're you're of 1042 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:43,160 Speaker 1: sound mind, exactly. And I think there's so much of 1043 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,560 Speaker 1: the story out now that it's impossible to put the 1044 01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,880 Speaker 1: genie back in the bottle. So it wouldn't really serve 1045 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:54,520 Speaker 1: anyone any any use to to off me. Now. You 1046 01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:56,960 Speaker 1: mentioned Carl Allen, and I just want to circle back 1047 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,560 Speaker 1: around again to what I would consider to be the 1048 01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,840 Speaker 1: braver of the New York Post to cover this because 1049 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 1: I mentioned I don't think the Times would write it. 1050 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 1: I don't think the Post would write it. I obviously 1051 01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,800 Speaker 1: people can say, oh, well you look out kicks sold 1052 01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,120 Speaker 1: last year to Fox. I do a lot of Fox News. 1053 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm not a Fox News employee. For radio. This is 1054 01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,240 Speaker 1: an iHeart production. This is not Fox. But in my 1055 01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,680 Speaker 1: experience with Fox, no one, and I've met Rupert and 1056 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,160 Speaker 1: Lachlan and everybody else, no one at Fox has ever 1057 01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:27,960 Speaker 1: told me, hey, don't talk about this, don't share your 1058 01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,639 Speaker 1: opinion on X or Y. That just doesn't happen in 1059 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,160 Speaker 1: my experience. I bet it is similar for you as well. 1060 01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,400 Speaker 1: What was it like working for Carl Allen? How important 1061 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,479 Speaker 1: is it that the New York Post exists? Because who 1062 01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,000 Speaker 1: else is willing to even have the resources and frankly, 1063 01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,080 Speaker 1: the testicular fortitude to actually write a story like this 1064 01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:54,840 Speaker 1: that could create the massive, you know, blowback like it did. Yeah, 1065 01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,080 Speaker 1: you put your finger ride on. Really the most important 1066 01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,320 Speaker 1: part of this, which is that as a journalist, it's 1067 01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,559 Speaker 1: very easy. You know, you you're health leather excited about 1068 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,519 Speaker 1: a story. Uh, you know, you think it's real you've 1069 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,400 Speaker 1: you've done your work on it, but it's going to 1070 01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,839 Speaker 1: be a huge bombshell and potentially blow up the election. 1071 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,360 Speaker 1: And you know what if it's wrong and it blows 1072 01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,479 Speaker 1: up in the face, I have huge ramifications for the 1073 01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,040 Speaker 1: newspaper around the company. So that decision um to be 1074 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 1: made by you know, the top editors. And Coole Allen 1075 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,960 Speaker 1: was at the top of the New York Post. Was 1076 01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:38,719 Speaker 1: incredibly courageous. And uh but you know, I've I've known 1077 01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,880 Speaker 1: him and worked for him off and on, um for gosh, 1078 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,080 Speaker 1: almost thirty years. I had my first child when I 1079 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:51,559 Speaker 1: was a baby editor under him, and um, he's always 1080 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,479 Speaker 1: been like that, balls of steel. Um, he's one of 1081 01:09:54,520 --> 01:10:00,200 Speaker 1: the real old school newspaper editors and just you know, 1082 01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,439 Speaker 1: hasn't has a nose for a story. He's as canny 1083 01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:07,679 Speaker 1: as they come, street wise, can smell bullshit a million 1084 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 1: yards off. He's incredible and he's the best editor I've 1085 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,240 Speaker 1: ever worked for. And he, um, he just you know, 1086 01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,479 Speaker 1: he just he's willing. He knows that all he cares 1087 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,160 Speaker 1: about is a story. You know, if a story is 1088 01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,479 Speaker 1: a great story without fear of favorite, doesn't matter whether 1089 01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,400 Speaker 1: it's helpful to the Republicans or the Democrats. He's just 1090 01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,479 Speaker 1: going to go for it. He loves it. And that's 1091 01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,479 Speaker 1: what anyone who's a real newspaper person, Um, that's what 1092 01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,400 Speaker 1: That's what they're about. It's not really being immediate person, 1093 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:43,439 Speaker 1: it's being a journalist, particularly old school newspaper reporter. And um, 1094 01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, I grew up My father was one of them. 1095 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,639 Speaker 1: M Cole Allen was one of them. I just grew 1096 01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: up admiring and respecting those old school newspaper men. And 1097 01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,519 Speaker 1: most of them were men, and and you know, it's 1098 01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,599 Speaker 1: it's a long gone era. And I think Cole's sort 1099 01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,280 Speaker 1: of the last of those those people because obviously the 1100 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:08,559 Speaker 1: Internet has changed everything. But anyway, Cole's just amazing and 1101 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,160 Speaker 1: it never would have happened without him. And he trusted me, 1102 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,720 Speaker 1: and I trusted him, and that is because we had 1103 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,479 Speaker 1: many years of working together. Miranda, I come back to 1104 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:23,559 Speaker 1: this big question. Why was the FBI so afraid of 1105 01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,439 Speaker 1: Donald Trump? Why was The New York Times so afraid 1106 01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,960 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump? Why was the Washington Post so afraid 1107 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:35,280 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump that they were willing to rig elections 1108 01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:38,479 Speaker 1: against him? In twenty twenty, I'm sure in the back 1109 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:40,760 Speaker 1: of your mind. You have thought a lot about this too, 1110 01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:45,040 Speaker 1: because ultimately someone at the FBI had to make the 1111 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,360 Speaker 1: choice to engage in this rig job, right, and maybe 1112 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,960 Speaker 1: it's a group of people. What I can never quite 1113 01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,920 Speaker 1: put my finger on is what did they find so 1114 01:11:55,080 --> 01:12:01,360 Speaker 1: terrifying about this guy? Well, it was that they couldn't 1115 01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:08,320 Speaker 1: control him. If you remember, there was a Chinese professor 1116 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,880 Speaker 1: after the twenty twenty election, a video that he'd made 1117 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,559 Speaker 1: leaked out and was soon quickly wiped off YouTube. But 1118 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,240 Speaker 1: he in that said he was very close to Jijingping 1119 01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:24,559 Speaker 1: in the hierarchy. And in that video he said, Donald Trump, 1120 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, we've always in China had our friends in 1121 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:31,960 Speaker 1: Wall Street, but not but Wall Street could not control Trump. 1122 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,559 Speaker 1: And that's the essence of it. Wall Street meaning really 1123 01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,880 Speaker 1: the establishment politicians because that's where the money comes from. 1124 01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 1: And the you know, Donald Trump was completely just. He 1125 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,440 Speaker 1: was just America first. He didn't want to go into wars, 1126 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,920 Speaker 1: he wanted to end the war in Afghanistan. He was 1127 01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:59,040 Speaker 1: a threat to the what Eisenhow called the military industrial complex, 1128 01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,040 Speaker 1: really an existential threat. And so you know there's a 1129 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of gravy trains in Washington are hitched to to 1130 01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,479 Speaker 1: that wagon, to having endless wars, and that was one 1131 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:18,479 Speaker 1: part of it. Also his belligerence towards China, which you know, 1132 01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:22,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the elites they make their money from China, 1133 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,760 Speaker 1: and he made it crystal clear that he was going 1134 01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,000 Speaker 1: to screw them over or make things fear screw them 1135 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,840 Speaker 1: over when it came to trade deals. All of that 1136 01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:36,560 Speaker 1: got derailed with COVID, which came from China. UM. And 1137 01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:40,520 Speaker 1: then in their cultural project, you know, the woke ideology 1138 01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: again he was he was blowing that up. And so 1139 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:53,439 Speaker 1: in every aspect of Washington bureaucracy, the administrative state, he 1140 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:57,680 Speaker 1: was starting to dismantle it. Even with the economy, you know, 1141 01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,880 Speaker 1: his tax cuts and soil which proved to be successful 1142 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:08,160 Speaker 1: and fueled the economy. Um, nearly part of his until COVID. UM. 1143 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,559 Speaker 1: That also was a rebuke to the kind of norms 1144 01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:17,639 Speaker 1: of you know, economic sort of norms in Washington where 1145 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,879 Speaker 1: um he was he was just challenging all those norms. 1146 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,520 Speaker 1: And he was also an embarrassment to them, I guests, 1147 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:30,800 Speaker 1: just with his demeanor. Um. But they you know, they 1148 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,599 Speaker 1: talked that up. Um. And also, I mean the fact 1149 01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:37,639 Speaker 1: is Donald Trump's no saint he's no angel he um. 1150 01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,840 Speaker 1: He has a sort of shambolic appearance. People were embarrassed 1151 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,120 Speaker 1: by him. Um. He was a little bit to queens 1152 01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,400 Speaker 1: for the stuck up people in the State Department and 1153 01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:53,559 Speaker 1: in in Washington. UM. And so I think in every 1154 01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,120 Speaker 1: way he offended their sensibilities, He challenged their um, financial 1155 01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:04,599 Speaker 1: underpin pinnings, and really their power base. He challenged their power, 1156 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:08,920 Speaker 1: and so he became an existential threat to the people 1157 01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,920 Speaker 1: who really run this country. We're talking to Miranda Divine, 1158 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,120 Speaker 1: and I hope you will share this conversation because I 1159 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,680 Speaker 1: think it's super important, especially if the people you may 1160 01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,040 Speaker 1: be friends or family with are in the fifty percent 1161 01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: of population out there that just doesn't understand the hunter 1162 01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,479 Speaker 1: Biden's story the laptop and has bought into this Russian 1163 01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: disinformation argument put out by so many people in positions 1164 01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,920 Speaker 1: of power. A lot of people who are listening to 1165 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,080 Speaker 1: us right now are red pilled. And I think that 1166 01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,160 Speaker 1: metaphor works so well because it is true, Miranda, and 1167 01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've experienced this now too, that once you 1168 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,200 Speaker 1: start to pull the thread here, you recognize how deep 1169 01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,519 Speaker 1: some of these conspiracies go. And if we're really going 1170 01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:55,360 Speaker 1: to be a functioning democracy. It's not things like January six. 1171 01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:59,040 Speaker 1: That's a symptom of the dishonesty that I think many 1172 01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:03,320 Speaker 1: people in this country innately feel from their leadership, right. 1173 01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,919 Speaker 1: And I give you tremendous credit because without worrying about 1174 01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:12,000 Speaker 1: who you were going to antagonize, you simply pursued the truth. 1175 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,160 Speaker 1: And I think you have told I think it's a 1176 01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,479 Speaker 1: more important story, I really do, than Watergate, and it's 1177 01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,920 Speaker 1: symptomatic of where our country has gone that the Washington Post, 1178 01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:25,320 Speaker 1: which published the Pentagon Papers and was willing to pursue Watergate, 1179 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:30,160 Speaker 1: just pretends that this story basically doesn't exist because it 1180 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,840 Speaker 1: directly attacks their base. Which again, this is a bigger 1181 01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:35,479 Speaker 1: picture story. But I think this has a lot to 1182 01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:37,840 Speaker 1: do with the subscription model and the fact that the 1183 01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,400 Speaker 1: New York Times and the Washington Post basically make their 1184 01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,920 Speaker 1: money off far left wing people now and they can't 1185 01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,519 Speaker 1: antagonize that base without threatening to destroy the essence of 1186 01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,280 Speaker 1: their business. And even more than that, I think there 1187 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,080 Speaker 1: may be something sinister about the subscription model that they have. 1188 01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:59,880 Speaker 1: You know, you look at, for instance, the New York Time. 1189 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,439 Speaker 1: I think of the numbers of things like nine million 1190 01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:06,600 Speaker 1: subscribers they have. And you know, when the Internet Internet 1191 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:11,760 Speaker 1: came into being and basically stole the revenue base of 1192 01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:17,280 Speaker 1: these incredibly lucrative newspapers, they had to find another source 1193 01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,600 Speaker 1: of income or collapse. And many newspapers, as you know, 1194 01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,600 Speaker 1: across the country collapsed. And so for those papers, subscription 1195 01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,080 Speaker 1: models became everything for them, and for the New York 1196 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,639 Speaker 1: Times incredibly successful. And you know, when you think about it, 1197 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time reading the comments on 1198 01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,840 Speaker 1: columns and stories on the watching The Post and the 1199 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,400 Speaker 1: New York Times, and they have a certain sameness to 1200 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,160 Speaker 1: them which is reminiscent of the sort of bot activity 1201 01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:48,600 Speaker 1: that you get in on Twitter. And so I started 1202 01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:53,360 Speaker 1: suspecting that a lot of these subscriptions because you know, 1203 01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,160 Speaker 1: you can get a subscription to the New York Times 1204 01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,519 Speaker 1: when they do their deals for a dollar six months, 1205 01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:02,120 Speaker 1: so it would not cost very much for the same 1206 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,760 Speaker 1: people who are buying bots on Twitter to buy you know, 1207 01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:12,320 Speaker 1: thousands of subscriptions and then set their people to writing 1208 01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,960 Speaker 1: the narrative in the comments. And then when you take 1209 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,320 Speaker 1: that one step further, and we don't know this because 1210 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,320 Speaker 1: the New York Times, the Washington Post don't tell us 1211 01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:25,120 Speaker 1: who their subscribers are, but there are bulk subscriptions, and 1212 01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:30,040 Speaker 1: some of these Bok subscriptions there is suggestions are brought 1213 01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:34,280 Speaker 1: up by China and other of our adversaries overseas, and 1214 01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:37,040 Speaker 1: I believe that the Republicans will be looking into that. 1215 01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:41,759 Speaker 1: Oh that's fascinating as well. When I was practicing attorney 1216 01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,479 Speaker 1: Miranda and I appreciate all your time. I know how 1217 01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,559 Speaker 1: busy you are. I think that's going to be compelling 1218 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,120 Speaker 1: listening for so many people out there. I used to 1219 01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:52,639 Speaker 1: always end my depositions by saying, what do you wish 1220 01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:54,479 Speaker 1: that I had asked you that I didn't. Is there 1221 01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,920 Speaker 1: something else you'd like to say to this audience that 1222 01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:00,120 Speaker 1: I didn't give you the opportunity to close with that 1223 01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:01,880 Speaker 1: you think is important that they might need to know. 1224 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:10,640 Speaker 1: Not really, you've been incredibly forensic and you're questioning. The 1225 01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,920 Speaker 1: only thing I guess I just leave with is that 1226 01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,200 Speaker 1: for four decades, Joe Biden has sort of traded on 1227 01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:23,360 Speaker 1: this mythology that he's honest Joe, that he's a family man, 1228 01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:28,960 Speaker 1: he's a devout Catholic, that you know, his entire career 1229 01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:33,519 Speaker 1: was founded on a terrible tragedy where his wife and 1230 01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,160 Speaker 1: his baby daughter were killed in a car accident that 1231 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:41,400 Speaker 1: injured his two sons, Hunter and Boe Biden, and he 1232 01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:46,040 Speaker 1: used the photograph of himself being sworn in it their 1233 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,560 Speaker 1: hospital bed, these two bandaged, injured boys in the foreground, 1234 01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:55,360 Speaker 1: as the basis of his campaigns ever since, and that 1235 01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:59,479 Speaker 1: elicited a lot of sympathy across the country. But then 1236 01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,840 Speaker 1: when I started doing the book, I thought, what kind 1237 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,760 Speaker 1: of a man, you know, why did he have to 1238 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:09,120 Speaker 1: get sworn in inside the hospital room? Such a great question. 1239 01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:13,519 Speaker 1: Even at that time of great tragedy and grief, he 1240 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:18,559 Speaker 1: had his eye on the political payoff. And then later on, 1241 01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,519 Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking he knew that his son Hunter 1242 01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,439 Speaker 1: had an alcohol and drug abuse problem. I mean, Hunter 1243 01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:29,040 Speaker 1: was arrested when he was eighteen. He was a troubled 1244 01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,439 Speaker 1: song and and what kind of a father, knowing his 1245 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:37,240 Speaker 1: son is a terrible addict, puts him, makes him the 1246 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:41,480 Speaker 1: bag man, and puts him in front of this unaccountable 1247 01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,800 Speaker 1: torrent of cash from Barisma as well as everything else. 1248 01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:53,080 Speaker 1: You know, I just my entire I used too many 1249 01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,320 Speaker 1: years ago. I think I'm Catholic. I thought Joe Biden 1250 01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,880 Speaker 1: was an Irish Catholic, sort of tribally like my people. 1251 01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,439 Speaker 1: But by the time I've come to see him as 1252 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:09,000 Speaker 1: a very sinister Figna, and I think that his legacy, 1253 01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:12,920 Speaker 1: if nothing else, comes out of all of this, I 1254 01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:16,160 Speaker 1: think that at least his legacy will be seen honestly 1255 01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,240 Speaker 1: and that he will be seen as one of the 1256 01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:24,839 Speaker 1: most malign people to become president. Miranda Divine, you deserve 1257 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,360 Speaker 1: all the Pulitzers. I appreciate all the work that you 1258 01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:29,599 Speaker 1: have done. I appreciate the time Today. I would encourage 1259 01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,120 Speaker 1: people to go follow you at Miranda Divine. If they 1260 01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:34,679 Speaker 1: want more details, I would tell them to go buy 1261 01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:38,240 Speaker 1: your book Laptop from Hell, and we appreciate your time. 1262 01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,479 Speaker 1: Keep up your good work and given what the FBI 1263 01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:45,519 Speaker 1: is up to, stay healthy. Yeah, thanks a lot, Clay. 1264 01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,719 Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. This has been Thank you. I'm Clay Travis. 1265 01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,320 Speaker 1: This has been wins and losses. She was Miranda Divine. 1266 01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,360 Speaker 1: This was a lot of fun. I hope you guys 1267 01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,479 Speaker 1: will share and listen to more episodes.