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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here at Crime Stories. We work

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Speaker 1: May fifteen. Sus XM, thank you for being our partner

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now is

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Speaker 1: a very special guest that worked for a really long

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Speaker 1: time with Joe Exotic with me, Galien Eastwood, Miss Eastwood,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Thank you for having

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Speaker 1: me Nancy, Miss Eastwood, what prompted you to go work

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Speaker 1: with Joe Exotic Well in nineteen ninety nine, late ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: early two thousand, when the part first opened, they actually

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Speaker 1: had a kitchen inside the gift shop that cooked for

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Speaker 1: whatever guest would come through and some of the workers.

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Speaker 1: And I had a friend that had worked in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: and she called me one night and she said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna have to quit this job. I

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Speaker 1: got another job. Would you be interested. So I went

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Speaker 1: up there the next day and I interviewed with with Joe,

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Speaker 1: and he told me what my duties would be. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a sanctuary that was taken in

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Speaker 1: rescued and rehomed animals. I totally could get on board

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Speaker 1: with that message and that and that purpose, and so

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Speaker 1: I took the job. And then within a week of

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Speaker 1: doing that, he put his mom in the kitchen cooking

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Speaker 1: and had me out in the park helping with the

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Speaker 1: animals and building cages and such. I stayed with him

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Speaker 1: almost a full year that time. The money was not great,

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Speaker 1: even though my love of the animals was great. I

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Speaker 1: had kids to feed, so I had to go get

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Speaker 1: a better paying job. But I stayed in touch with

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Speaker 1: Joe throughout the years, and it even went back a

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Speaker 1: few times to volunteer to donate items, and then in

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen when I went back, it was totally different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were they were doing the mass spreading.

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Speaker 1: There were cameras everywhere recording his every move, and you know,

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Speaker 1: in my head, it didn't take me long being back

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Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen that I was still looking for Joe Shrivogel,

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Speaker 1: who I had met in nineteen ninety nine and two thousand,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the Joe Exotic that I met in

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. So in my head, I kind of got

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Speaker 1: it like they're two separate people. One I was okay with,

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Speaker 1: even though he had his little quirks and stuff, but

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Speaker 1: the other one, you know, I just can't get on

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Speaker 1: board with anything that he turned into. You know, it

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Speaker 1: does sound almost like two different people, but it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying Joe shri Vogel really cared about the animals,

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Speaker 1: and then Joe Exotic was the exact opposite. I can't

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Speaker 1: say that Joe Exotic didn't care about the animals. I

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Speaker 1: think he cared about what the animals could do for him,

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Speaker 1: the popularity and the notoriety and all the people coming

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Speaker 1: to the park and listening to him, so he cared

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Speaker 1: in the sense of what they could do for him.

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Speaker 1: But in the beginning, Joe Shrivogel, I mean it was

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Speaker 1: we would flip a coin on who would have to

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Speaker 1: do an interview, Like he was totally in it for

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Speaker 1: saving the animals, he was not breeding them. We were

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Speaker 1: advocating against the cub petting and people being able to

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Speaker 1: go take their income tax returns to exotic animal auction

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Speaker 1: and just by whatever animal they thought was cute and cuddley,

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Speaker 1: people that do not have the knowledge or the means

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Speaker 1: to care for these animals. I mean, Joe was Shrivogel

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Speaker 1: was actually advocating against that, and then somewhere it flipped

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Speaker 1: and he became this, I'm standing up for all the

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Speaker 1: animal owners. I'm the only one standing up for your rights.

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Speaker 1: And I mean it was a shock to me. So yes,

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Speaker 1: I think just in my head that I kind of

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Speaker 1: had to just seem as two separate people. When you

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Speaker 1: went back and you knew and you knew him over

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Speaker 1: all these years, how did his persona change? What did

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Speaker 1: you notice about the new Joe? Exotic? The word narcissistic,

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Speaker 1: like full spectrum narcissism comes to mind. Everything was about him.

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Speaker 1: I remember even one argument between he and I that

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Speaker 1: he was I don't even remember what we were arguing about,

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Speaker 1: but his parting statement to me was that people came

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Speaker 1: to the zoo to see him, not the animals. I

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Speaker 1: totally couldn't grasp that, because you know, if if I

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Speaker 1: go to take my family to a zoo, we're going

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Speaker 1: to see the animals. But he had to have complete

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Speaker 1: and utter control. I mean, you did not make a

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Speaker 1: move on that park without running it through him or

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Speaker 1: him telling you what to do. And he wasn't. It

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Speaker 1: didn't seem like he was like that. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: him being like that when I first met him. Galb.

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Speaker 1: How were the animals being treated for the most part,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were being fed. Well, we did have

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Speaker 1: the Walmart truck, although it was kind of portrayed a

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Speaker 1: little wacky in the documentary, it wasn't anything like that.

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Speaker 1: You had your animal handlers that actually loved the animals,

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Speaker 1: and they were taking good care. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: cleaning cages, we were watching most aware. The abuse that

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Speaker 1: I seen came in was with the whole mass breeding,

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Speaker 1: you know, breeding these breeder pairs out these moms out

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Speaker 1: and then immediately taking their babies by whatever means necessary

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Speaker 1: where they had to poke proad the mom out separate

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Speaker 1: her from her cubs to get the cubs. I did witness,

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Speaker 1: not so much him actually the killing of two healthy wolves,

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Speaker 1: but I had two wolves that I had taken care

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Speaker 1: of that morning, and I was in the commissary doing

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Speaker 1: diets and one of the other crew members came to

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Speaker 1: me and said that Joe had just put down two

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Speaker 1: wolves in the back of the park cages. And I

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Speaker 1: immediately left what I was doing to go see what

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Speaker 1: was going on, and I came up on them actually

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Speaker 1: loading the carcasses into what we called the bone collector.

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Speaker 1: It was an Osteo college in Oklahoma City that would

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Speaker 1: come down and pick up carcasses. I did witness them

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Speaker 1: putting the two wolves into the pickup and him leaving

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Speaker 1: with them. And like I said, I had tended to

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Speaker 1: those wolves. I had cleaned their cages and fed on

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Speaker 1: that morning. There was nothing wrong with them, no reason

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Speaker 1: at all to put them down. But as far as

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Speaker 1: the day to day care of the animal fly Galien,

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Speaker 1: his answer was he needed to take those set of

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Speaker 1: cages out, and he didn't have anywhere to put the wolves,

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Speaker 1: so he killed the wolves to take the cages out

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Speaker 1: to put in a gift shop. And from all pictures

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Speaker 1: that I'm seeing of the park the way it stands today,

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Speaker 1: the cages are still there. Would he make money off

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Speaker 1: selling the dead carcasses. I never witnessed it. It was

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Speaker 1: just a rumor that he did make money off of it,

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Speaker 1: but I cannot give that to you firsthand. What about

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Speaker 1: all the baby cubs that were born from the forced breeding?

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Speaker 1: What happened to them? Oh, that's a very good question.

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Speaker 1: That's the question people should be answering, as you know

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Speaker 1: they're turning out. Joe even did one interview that he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's doing forty to fifty cubs a year,

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Speaker 1: and that being said, as long as he's been breeding,

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Speaker 1: there should be over four hundred tigers at that facility.

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Speaker 1: And the last USDA inventory sheet that I saw listed

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Speaker 1: one hundred and six big cats, and that was from

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Speaker 1: July of twenty nineteen. As a worker at the park,

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Speaker 1: you're not always involved in where the cubs go. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know that this day, John Finley is transporting two

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Speaker 1: cubs to this Walmart parking lot and meeting someone, but

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't really know who he was meeting, or even

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Speaker 1: Mark Thompson. He had several people that would actually do

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Speaker 1: the transporting of the cubs, and then there were some

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Speaker 1: that just as soon as they were pulled from their mom.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're like any other baby, they can't regulate

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Speaker 1: their body temperature. They're totally dependent. So if you don't

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Speaker 1: care for them just properly, they die within the first

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. So you have a mom that has

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Speaker 1: a litter of four, two of them may make it

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Speaker 1: to the juvenile stage to you could actually do the

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Speaker 1: cub petting with them. And then after the cub petting

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Speaker 1: they you know, they're four months old. By this point,

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Speaker 1: usually their whole purpose for being born born is complete.

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Speaker 1: They're you know, they're not making money anymore, so they're

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Speaker 1: shoved off into cages. You have other roadside facilities that

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Speaker 1: are like the one Joe was running that will come

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Speaker 1: and pick up the cubs. Could say they're low one

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Speaker 1: tigers and they need tigers. There's a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of switching and handling, and a lot of paperwork

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Speaker 1: that doesn't get done or gets documented the wrong way

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Speaker 1: just to cover where these tigers are going? Dane, Well,

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Speaker 1: how much could you sell a baby tiger for? I

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Speaker 1: never sold one, so but I know Joe, I mean,

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Speaker 1: depending on the what it was. If it was a

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Speaker 1: white tiger, you know, he would get more for it.

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Speaker 1: Some of his hybrids, like his laggers, his loveligers, he

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Speaker 1: would sell for more because they're fairly not a new species.

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Speaker 1: But they're not, you know as well known. A couple

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Speaker 1: of thousand dollars was what he would usually ask for

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Speaker 1: one of his cubs. Gaylan, you mentioned the Netflix series.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of it? I know you watched it,

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Speaker 1: What did you think? I was very disappointed in how

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Speaker 1: it was presented to me and the end result. You know,

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Speaker 1: Eric Good presented it to me that it was going

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Speaker 1: to expose the underbelly of the exotic animal world, and

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like it did that. I feel like, yes,

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Speaker 1: there might have been a hint of animals. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you had to really read between the lines to get

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Speaker 1: the animal message because it was so full of these crazy,

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Speaker 1: larger than life characters that people are more focused on

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Speaker 1: what they're actually seen on their screen that you know,

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Speaker 1: Alan Glover is sitting in a bathtub taking a bath,

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Speaker 1: doing an interview, or John Finley sitting there with his

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Speaker 1: shirt off. People are more focused on that than the

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Speaker 1: animal part. And I also some of the things that

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Speaker 1: the documentary touched on, such as, you know, Joe singing.

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Speaker 1: You have some people that watch that and still to

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Speaker 1: this day believe that Joe was singing his own songs.

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Speaker 1: I believe that the people that put it out could

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Speaker 1: have at least done some type of disclaimer at the end, saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, well, even though you've seen this, we have

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Speaker 1: found this to not be true or that to not

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Speaker 1: be true. But it's just like they just loaded it

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Speaker 1: with all the sensationalism. They barely touched on anything and

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Speaker 1: kind of left it open to the public just to

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Speaker 1: fill in the blanks. Crime stories with Nancy Grace Dylan.

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Speaker 1: When you were working at the gift shop or during

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Speaker 1: any of your times when you would go back and

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Speaker 1: help out, do you believe that credit card fraud was

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Speaker 1: going on? Yes, ma'am, I know of one particular incident

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Speaker 1: that that happened. There was a black leopard. His name

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Speaker 1: was Mystic. He had been at the park for many,

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Speaker 1: many years. He was actually a rescue from like two

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Speaker 1: thousand when the park first opened and he had got

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Speaker 1: a new sponsor, and part of the sponsorship, Joe would

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Speaker 1: allow new sponsors to rename the animal. So this animal,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why he got transferred, but there was

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Speaker 1: a couple of people from Dade City, Florida, their last

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Speaker 1: named Stearns, run another roadside scum zoo and they're in

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Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. They had come up to pick

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Speaker 1: up some tigers and at the very last moment, I,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I wasn't there for the conversation of why.

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Speaker 1: But this black leopard he was put into a medium

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Speaker 1: sized kennel cage that he couldn't even turn around in,

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Speaker 1: loaded in the back of a truck, and shipped to

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Speaker 1: Florida with the Sterns. A couple of months after that,

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Speaker 1: or maybe a month or two after that, I actually

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Speaker 1: had some issues with my back and began. Joe moved

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Speaker 1: me to the gift shop so I wouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: do any heavy lifting. And part of our job of

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Speaker 1: working the front desk was we were to build the

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Speaker 1: credit cards monthly for the sponsorships. We had a list

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Speaker 1: and we would just go through there and build them

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Speaker 1: and you know, it would say tiger or whatever species,

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Speaker 1: and then it would give the name, and then it

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Speaker 1: would give the amount and the credit card number. And

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Speaker 1: I was going through billing and not really thinking because

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Speaker 1: I wasn't real familiar with every name of every animal

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Speaker 1: on the park. But Mystic I knew, and when I

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Speaker 1: got to him, I would not build a credit card

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Speaker 1: because I knew Mystic was no longer at our facility.

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Speaker 1: And I approached Joe about it, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: don't you think we should you send this guy a

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Speaker 1: letter and let him know that Mystic has been rehomed,

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Speaker 1: but we have other animals. Would he like to sponsor

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Speaker 1: another animal or possibly just end his sponsorship? And Joe

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Speaker 1: told me he said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: type it up, and type it up. So I typed

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Speaker 1: up a letter and I left it on his desk,

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Speaker 1: and the next morning, when I went in to take

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Speaker 1: out his trash in the office, I found the letter

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00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: crumpled up in the trash can. And then when I

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Speaker 1: left the park at the end of October twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: this gentleman was still being billed for sponsorship of an

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Speaker 1: animal that was no longer at the park. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that happened with other animals as well. That just

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Speaker 1: happens to be the one you know of because you

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Speaker 1: knew mystic, Yes you know, and just thinking, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: all that money because he's getting money for sponsorships, as

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Speaker 1: you said, where people have regular billing on their credit

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Speaker 1: card to support an animal. He's selling baby tiger cubs

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Speaker 1: for thousands of dollars each people pay when they come there.

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Speaker 1: He's got the gift shop going. What did he do

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Speaker 1: with all that money? Because the Netflix series was clear

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Speaker 1: that the animals were not getting fed enough. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: you have to understand that Joe had all his flashy clothes,

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Speaker 1: so there's a lot of money going there. He had

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Speaker 1: a full studio, they bought drones. He was paying at

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Speaker 1: one point in twenty fourteen, I think the studio crew

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Speaker 1: was actually like five to six people, and they had

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Speaker 1: some pretty good equipment, and they had drones to do

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Speaker 1: all his other stuff. He was paying for his country

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Speaker 1: music songs. Someone else was singing them and writing them,

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Speaker 1: and he was paying for those. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much he paid for him. He just didn't sing them.

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Speaker 1: Yes ma'am, okay, yes ma'am. And then you know you

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Speaker 1: had his husband's He provided them with everything they needed, clothing, drugs, tattoos, guns,

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Speaker 1: you know what have you. So, Yes, a large portion

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Speaker 1: of the money being made was going to support their lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Well didn't the husband's work not outside the park, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't get a paycheck like John. Yes, he worked

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Speaker 1: in the park. He helped feed he did do transporting

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Speaker 1: animals for Joe, but he didn't receive a weekly paycheck

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Speaker 1: like the rest of the animal handlers. Travis, No, he

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Speaker 1: didn't work. He kept the house clean for the most part.

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Speaker 1: He did. If there was some cubs in the house,

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Speaker 1: he would, you take care of the cubs and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. And occasionally if we needed extra muscle to

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Speaker 1: build a new tiger house or whatever. But Travis, you

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Speaker 1: didn't really he wasn't really out on the park every

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Speaker 1: day working. Hi guys, Nancy Grace, here at a time

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00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:54,040
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Speaker 1: faith crime stories with me. It's he grace Daylyn. Did

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Speaker 1: you ever hear Exotic talking about how much he hated

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Speaker 1: Carol Baskin every day every day? Yes, that was why

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Speaker 1: was he so obsessed with her? He's like that with

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Speaker 1: pretty much anyone that doesn't agree with what he agrees with.

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Speaker 1: Kind of that narcissistic personality coming out again. That if

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Speaker 1: you're not my side, then you're against me. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when I started back in twenty fourteen, that's every day,

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Speaker 1: multiple times a day, I heard about that Carol Baskin.

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Speaker 1: That Carol Baskin. So you know, I decided when not

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Speaker 1: to go home and google and I actually pulled up

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit and the story behind it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: on Joe's part of the Carol Basking story, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a Basking supporter. I don't. I don't know her well

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Speaker 1: enough to say yes or no about anything about her.

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Speaker 1: But just on Joe's part of the story, he brought

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Speaker 1: every bit of that on himself. He walked around saying

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Speaker 1: how obsessed she was with him, when all the woman

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Speaker 1: started out doing in the beginning was writing letters two

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Speaker 1: malls to advocate against something that she did not believe

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Speaker 1: in a normal response, if Joe truly believed that he

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Speaker 1: was doing this for educational purposes, and he was educating

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Speaker 1: the public about the plight of the tiger and trying

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Speaker 1: to save the species, why would he not start his

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Speaker 1: own letter writing campaign. He had the followers, you know,

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Speaker 1: he could say no, this is what we're doing, this

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Speaker 1: is our message, but he didn't. He immediately changed the

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Speaker 1: name of his road show to where people would confuse

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Speaker 1: it would and use the logos so people would confuse

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Speaker 1: him with Carol Baskin, And then he started this online

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Speaker 1: slaughter of videos and stuff, you know, to try to

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Speaker 1: shut her down or at least get people to think

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Speaker 1: she's a hypocrite. So I don't other than just her

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Speaker 1: going against him and shutting it basically dipping in his

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Speaker 1: money making pot. I don't know why he hated her

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Speaker 1: so much. Did you ever hear him talking about wanting

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Speaker 1: her dead? I personally never heard him say the words

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Speaker 1: she's got to die. I heard him say some very

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Speaker 1: extreme things about her. I was there just that somebody

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Speaker 1: should go down there and mess with her. He never

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Speaker 1: But I don't know that Joe would say something like

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Speaker 1: that in front of me, because you know, I just

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00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: I was good about putting him in his place. I

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00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: would call him on his bullcrap, and I was never

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Speaker 1: approached by anybody during that twenty fourteen time period that said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, Joe just offered for me to go kill

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Speaker 1: the woman or what have you. I never got that.

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Speaker 1: I don't put it past him. Believe me, I've heard

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Speaker 1: the videos and stuff I just think he was in

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Speaker 1: this spot his show where he shoots the head off

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00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: the Carol basking dummy says I want her head in

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Speaker 1: a jar, yes man, But that was after roll the

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00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: bitch into the ocean. That's pretty Yes, that's pretty harsh, yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 1: it is. And but that was after I was already

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00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: out of the park. Those some of those videos came up.

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Speaker 1: Like like I said, I just feel like he was

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Speaker 1: in a and I'm totally not taking up for him,

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00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: believe me, I'm not. But he was in a spiral.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it started out about you know, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do this coffee right infringement, and then it was

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00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: like I'm going to start making videos and then I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna start going down there and getting pictures of her

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Speaker 1: facility and making her facility look bad, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to start with the threats. So you know, it

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00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: was like a spiral. It wasn't like he just woke

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Speaker 1: up one day and it popped in his head that

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Speaker 1: he was going to kill her. When you heard that

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Speaker 1: he was accused of hiring not one, but two hit

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Speaker 1: men to kill Carol Baskin, what did you think I

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00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: was not surprised at all. I had Actually, when I

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Speaker 1: walked away from the park, I had been trying to

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00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: get Joe shut down. When I left. It was my

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00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: parting words to him that I would see him shut

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Speaker 1: down or I would see him in jail. So before

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Speaker 1: he was actually arrested, I knew the investigation was going on,

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00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: and so it wasn't a big surprise to me. It

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00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: really was investigation, the one into animal mistreatment, or the

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00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: one where he won a Carol Basking killed, the investigation

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00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: into the murder for hire. How did you know about it?

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00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: Just through different We have a whole group that we

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00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: keep a very close eye. Well until Joe went to jail,

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00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: we kept a very close eye on him, and it

387
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: wasn't anything. You know, You've got Jeff Low and James

388
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: garrettson before Joe was ever arrested, they were posting things

389
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: on Facebook. So just by trying to keep up with

390
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: the story, we learned a lot of what was going on.

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00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: What did they post on Facebook? I don't really remember.

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00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: They would post some little something about, oh yeah, i'll

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00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: talk to the Feds today, Joe, you really messed up,

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00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: And then the next minute, if you didn't get it

395
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: screenshoted it would be back down. But they were really

396
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: before he was actually ever arrested. They were kind of

397
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: throwing things out on Facebook two. So you were not

398
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: surprised when you found out about the plot to kill her, No, ma'am,

399
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: not at all, because I had watched him spiral for,

400
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: you know, for years. So why am I trying to

401
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: get him show down? The cup breeding and the different

402
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: things that I saw that. Uh you know, he was

403
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: still when when guests were coming through, he was he

404
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: was still trying to say that it was a sanctuary,

405
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,959
Speaker 1: and he was still trying to take donation. And like

406
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: I said, you know the Joe Strabo, Joe Exotic. Uh

407
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't like Joe Exotic. I don't I don't approve

408
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: of what he did. Uh I don't approve of how

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00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: the animals were under his care, you know, the mass

410
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: breeding and stuff like that. So you know, I contacted

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00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: the RS because he at one time he was a

412
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: BABO one C three and uh I contacted Garden County

413
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department and tried to tell them about the drug

414
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: use in Joe's house and stuff. It just seemed like

415
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: nobody everybody wanted to turn, you know, turn turn the

416
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: other direction and not really do anything about it. I

417
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 1: wonder why that I would have no clue about. So

418
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: you guys parted on bad terms, yes, ma'am. But he

419
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: did about two years after well, now let's see about

420
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: two thousand into two thousand and sixteen, first part of

421
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: twenty and seventeen. I actually ran into him in town

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00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: and he did get me to come try to work

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00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: at his restaurant for him, even though I had already

424
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: told him that I wanted to see him in jail

425
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: or shut down. Galen, What about the treatment of the animals?

426
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: Exactly was it? What did you witness? They got you

427
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: so upset you wanted to close them down? There was

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00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: one incident, you know, all this cub petting. If you

429
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: listen to any of these people that are running these

430
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: tiger mills, they will all tell you the same thing.

431
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: The reason why they pull the babies is because you know,

432
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: the mom doesn't make milk, or the mom rejects them,

433
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: or the dad will attack them. And you know, I

434
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: allowed myself to maybe not believe that, but I allowed

435
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: myself to participate in that. Not the first few months

436
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen, not really knowing any better. But a

437
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: couple of months after I had been there, there were

438
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: some cubs that had been born, and actually we didn't

439
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: know about it until their eyes were open, and they

440
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: were already starting to push up on their front feet

441
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 1: and they were making noise if you tried to go

442
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: to touch them and stuff. So these cubs had to

443
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: be two to three weeks old, you know. So in

444
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: my head, I'm thinking, okay, well, everything that Joe has

445
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: been telling the handlers and the guests, you know, in

446
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: this case, is not true. I mean, these cubs are

447
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: fat and healthy looking, and Mom's been doing a good job.

448
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: And Joe pulled them anyway. And when I ask him why,

449
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: he said, well, we just pulled them all. And that

450
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: was truly when, you know, I quit having anything to

451
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: do with Joe as little as possible. I still wanted

452
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: to be there to take care of the animals because

453
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: I know I knew that by me doing their diets

454
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: and cleaning their cages, I knew that they were getting

455
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: good care. And I love animals, and I thought I

456
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: was not even enough to think that I could still

457
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: be there and be there for the animals and not

458
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: participate in the stuff that I didn't agree with. And

459
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: then you know when I went it wasn't any one thing.

460
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: You know, when I went in the gift shop and

461
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: I found out Joe was, you know, still billing people

462
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: for sponsorship, I mean that was just out and out

463
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: fraud and I won't be a part of that. And

464
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: then his fake illnesses, him trying to uh, you know,

465
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: putting on Facebook that hinting that he had cancer and

466
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: he was dying, and I mean it just was too much.

467
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: It was a hole. I didn't know about that. What

468
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: happened well, shortly after a him and John split up

469
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: in July, he started this that he couldn't. He started

470
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: vomiting all the time, and he had a camera in

471
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: his space to record every minute of sickness that there was.

472
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: He was basically making himself sick. Well, in September, I

473
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: think he got a diagnosis he either had an inflamed

474
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: prostate or an enlarged prostate, and he chose to have surgery.

475
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: And he went and had the surgery end of September

476
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen, first part of October twenty fourteen. And

477
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: it was simple, just go in there and remove the prostate.

478
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: It was not cancerous. But then he takes to wanting

479
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: people to come up and cook him food and come

480
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: clean his house and give him money for this and

481
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: money for that, because you know, he starts claiming that

482
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: he has cancer, or he has some other rare disease,

483
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: or the doctors can't figure out what was wrong with him. Well,

484
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: on one trip to the hospital, I actually drew the

485
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: short stick and was the one that had to drive

486
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: him to the hospital, and I sat right there and

487
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: heard his surgeon say that no, he does it was

488
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: not his prostate was not removed for cancer. And then

489
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: in another incidence, I seen a letter from a doctor

490
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: of his that he had been saying that was basically

491
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: terminating his association with Joe. It would you know it

492
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: kind of in a nutshell. It read, we've performed every

493
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: test on you, we can't find anything wrong, and perhaps

494
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: you should seek mental health help. So you think that

495
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: he was using the surgery, which was not about cancer,

496
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: in order to get people to donate money. I think

497
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: in the beginning he was using it as a way

498
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: to try to get John back, because he pulled a

499
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: lot of tricks and stuff trying to get John to

500
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: come back to him and then when he got attention

501
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 1: from it and people started donating money and some of

502
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: his I don't know if I can say this, but

503
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: he had a group of women that would come to

504
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: the park and they would donate their time to get

505
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: to play with the the cubs and the animals and stuff.

506
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: And Joe had dubbed them fag hags. Well, they just

507
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: flought to the park and started cooking for him and

508
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: cleaning his house. So I think because of the tension

509
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: he was a getting, he just went ahead and went

510
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: with it. Time stories with Nancy Grace. When you say

511
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: he pulled a lot of different kind of tricks to

512
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: get his husband back, what kind of tricks? Okay, maybe

513
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: trick was the wrong word. There was one conversation that

514
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: I just heard Joe's part of the conversation, and it

515
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: was like within the first week that John was gone,

516
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: and Joe was on the phone and he was saying,

517
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: I guess he was leaving a boy smell, And he said,

518
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: if you don't contact me by seven o'clock tonight, I'm

519
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: gonna start killing your animals and getting rid of all

520
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: your animals, which there were some, there were reptiles, some

521
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: of their pets, that they had at the house. The

522
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: dogs were John Finley's. There was a set of monkeys,

523
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: Capuchin monkeys that were John Finley's. So, you know, I

524
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: heard Joe say this, and I didn't live at the park,

525
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: so at closing I went home. I come back the

526
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: next morning at nine o'clock and we have the We

527
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: had morning meetings every morning at nine o'clock. And you know,

528
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: after hearing Joe tell John that he would kill his

529
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: animals and get rid of them, at the very end

530
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: of the morning meeting, he looked at Eric and Easton,

531
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: who were on cat crew, and he said, oh, by

532
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: the way, I've got dead dogs in my yard that

533
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: need to be buried. He had shot John Finley's dogs

534
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: or put them down. I don't know if he shot them.

535
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: I didn't go down there to look at the bodies,

536
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: but he had gotten rid of dogs. Galen. How would

537
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: he get the babies away from the moms. There was

538
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: multiple different ways. In the big pens, the mom and

539
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: the babies would be in the house and the big pens,

540
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: and every large pen has a smaller pen inside it

541
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: that's called a lockdown cage. Most of the time you

542
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: would try to get the mom into the lockdown to cage,

543
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: because if you could get her in there, that meant

544
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: you didn't have to dart, or you could just lock

545
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: the door and she couldn't get back to the cubs.

546
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: In some instances they would have to poke and proud.

547
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: I did witness them using fire extinguishers one time to

548
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: smoke basically smoke the mom out of the house away

549
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: from the baby, you know, because it's it's a mom's

550
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: instinct to stay with her young when they're firstborn. So

551
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, you got sticks, you got him furn guns

552
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: up in the air for the noise. If they could

553
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: get the mom out of the house with the babies,

554
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: but they couldn't get her in the lockdown pen, you know,

555
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: they would they would dart her to put her to

556
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: sleep so that you could go in there and get

557
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: the cubs. I know on the documentary they showed the

558
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: baby being pulled by the stick out of the house

559
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: as the mom. I never witnessed that. I only witnessed

560
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: them actually separating the mom from the cubs and then

561
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: going in and taking the cubs. What would the mom do?

562
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: Most of the time, she would get very you know,

563
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: I mean, momssmama bears. We get kind of protective, you know.

564
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: I mean she would hit the fence at m she would,

565
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, do everything to try to protect her young.

566
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: But you know when you're being poked and prodded and

567
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: come out from And it wasn't just like Joe like

568
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: he would have the whole crew down there participating in this.

569
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: And if you smoked that house with the fire extinguisher,

570
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: she's got to come outside to get air. So there

571
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: wasn't a whole lot the mom could do. It's just

572
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: hard for me to believe, and I know you're telling

573
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: me the truth that other people would take part of it,

574
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: poking and hitting the mom, using the fire extinguisher on her,

575
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: dart gunning her and then take the baby away. Everybody

576
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: took part of it. Why why would everybody join in?

577
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people. I know myself and

578
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: I did not do the poking and the parting. I

579
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: mean I stood back and I witnessed it, but I

580
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: could not bring myself to do it. I just I couldn't.

581
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: But in a way I had fooled myself into still

582
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 1: thinking that this park was a good thing in hole

583
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: that know, the cub petting and the way they treated

584
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: the moms to get the babies. No, that was horrible,

585
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: but the cud petting was a necessary to feed the animals.

586
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: It's really hard to describe what mindset you get into

587
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: and what you fool yourself into. Even when you've got

588
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: the red flags in your head saying ding ding ding,

589
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: you know this isn't right, and then you try to

590
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: you try to justify it until it comes to the

591
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: point that you just can't justify it anymore. And there

592
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 1: there are some people that work there that have never

593
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: come to the justification. Me. It took me about, you know,

594
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: eight months, and it wasn't eight whole months. A lot

595
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: of it. I was ready to go within the first

596
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: two months when I realized what was happening, But I

597
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: was so involved with the animals that I fooled myself

598
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: into believing, you know, like I said before, that I

599
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: could still take care of the animals and not participate

600
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: in the bad stuff. We'll see that charming Jalen that

601
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: people were kind of under his spell. Believe it or not,

602
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: he is. I mean, you really can't tell it from

603
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: from the docuseries, but Joe has this charismatic thing quality

604
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 1: about him that I mean, either when you meet him,

605
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: you fall in love with him, or you know, just

606
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: really like him he's a likable guy, or you just

607
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: instantly hate him. There's usually not any in between with him.

608
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 1: And he has this uncanny ability to meet someone and

609
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: read them within seconds and kind of if you have

610
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: a weak spot, he knows exactly how to use that

611
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: in his favor to get what he wants from you.

612
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's uncanny, canny, and it's indescribable, you know, Kaylynn.

613
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: He said that he was set up. He's filed by

614
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: the ninety four million dollar Ish lawsuit against the government

615
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: and others, saying that he was entrapped, he was tricked,

616
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: that he would never have ordered hits. I don't think

617
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: there's a real defense to anything he did to the animals.

618
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: But what do you make of his claim that he

619
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: was picked on because he is gay. I think that's

620
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: so much crap. I don't Number one, I don't think

621
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: he was picked on at all. And number two, I

622
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: have listened to him for you know, the past six years,

623
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: try to turn everything about Oh, it's because i'm gay,

624
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: it's because i'm gay. No, it's because you're not a

625
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: decent human being, I mean, plain and simple. The whole

626
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: free Joe exotic he was set up is just I mean,

627
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: it's crap to me. I don't know. Maybe I just

628
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: don't understand the definition of being set up. But if

629
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 1: you're a willing participant, if they have you on tape

630
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: with an undercover agent orchestrating a hit, I don't know

631
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: how that's a setup. I don't get it. You know,

632
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: I just saw that his pink sequin shirt was selling

633
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: for about seven hundred dollars. That's a heck of a

634
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: lifestyle when you've got one shirt that can be sold

635
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: for seven hundred dollars. You mentioned his lifestyle, that all

636
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: that money was going into supporting him and his husband's lifestyle.

637
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: What did you mean by that, other than hiring somebody

638
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: to film you twenty four seven, three sixty five for

639
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: a reality show? I mean, what lifestyle. I'm very curious

640
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: about his lifestyle. I don't mean about being gay. I

641
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: don't care about that. I mean the money. Where's the

642
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: money going, what's he doing? How's he living? They did?

643
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: They did do trips, you know. They they took skydiving trips,

644
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: They took trips down to Florida, and and turned Carol

645
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: Baskin's facility. And I don't know what all they did

646
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: when they were in Florida. Um, you know, they had

647
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: be hicles, I mean pretty much anything that they wanted

648
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: they had access to. And if if he didn't have

649
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: his trucks, I mean they all had brand new trucks

650
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: that they went and financed and were paying for. They

651
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: were always financing someone else's name, but he would make

652
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: the payments on it. John Finley, I think he brecked

653
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: a couple, so he was getting getting pick up trucks

654
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: quite often there for a while. And they bought more animals,

655
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: and you know, like I said, the drugs, the tattoos,

656
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: the clothing. When John left, uh, Joe was Joe was

657
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: bent on his reality show had to be about him

658
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: and his two husbands. So when John left, he didn't

659
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: have the third husband anymore. So he an ex boyfriend.

660
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: He paid this ex boyfriend to come down to the park.

661
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: He paid like three months worth of the boy's phone bills.

662
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: He was back behind on his phone bills. He made

663
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: up his car payments, He got his moms. Joe got

664
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: his mom's credit card and went and spent five hundred

665
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: dollars on a tattoo and some clothing for this guy.

666
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just did you say his third husband? Well,

667
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: he had. The reality show was supposed to be about

668
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: three husbands, so when John left, there was only two

669
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: of them. There was Joe and another Sorry I misspoke.

670
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: You know I love my husband, Gailien, but I don't

671
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: want another one. One is enough exactly. So the premise

672
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: of the reality show is about three husbands. I thought

673
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: the premise was supposed to have been about the animals

674
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:17,959
Speaker 1: his reality show. His reality show. The way he put

675
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: it to me over and over again was that it

676
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: was going to be about a gay zookeeper that had

677
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 1: two husbands, that they were in this three way marriage,

678
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: which at the time wasn't even gay marriage was not

679
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: legal in Oklahoma, so you know, they had had the

680
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: union ceremony, but they were not legally married. But the

681
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: reality show was he was going to be in the forefront,

682
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: His husbands were going to be in the forefront. The

683
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: animals were just going to be an afterthought. You know,

684
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious why Joe Exotic thought, and maybe he wasn't

685
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: wrong that people would want to see a reality show

686
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 1: about him. I have no clue. I mean, I really don't.

687
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: I mean I set back every day and watch how

688
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: people are reacting to this, and I guess from actually

689
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: living it for a while that you just can't go

690
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: back and unsee what you've already seen and try to

691
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: get like a clean perspective on it. So who knows.

692
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean, Joe really did have this mentality that he

693
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: was all that, that everybody wanted to be him because

694
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: he had this huge animal facility and case in point,

695
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: as far as I mean, some of the reaction from

696
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: the American public has really shocked me. We have a

697
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: Facebook page and I spend most of my day deleting

698
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: people off of there that just want to come on there,

699
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: and that's all they want to do is support this

700
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: movement to free Joe and say, try to argue with

701
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: me about what a nice person he is because they

702
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 1: watch something on TV, you know, so it's it's really

703
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: been it's been something. Well, then let me ask you this, Galen.

704
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: What people see on TV was that the real Joe exotic?

705
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: He was large in some ways, it was It's really

706
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: hard to explain Joe because like he's every person sees

707
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: something different Inny like you could take every bit of

708
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: the staff from twenty and fourteen and they could probably

709
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: tell you different views of how I see him. And

710
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: that's just part of the I guess. I guess you

711
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: would call it an enigma, that is Joe exotic. There's

712
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: no way to sit down and just describe him. So

713
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: some people watching the watching the documentary are going to say, well, gosh,

714
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: I feel sorry for him, and he was just really

715
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: railroaded and this, that and the other, and they're going

716
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: to get on this whole support Joe thing. And then

717
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: other people are like, you know, this man is a lunatic.

718
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he he will do where do you stand.

719
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: I think that when you have someone that is, like

720
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: we discussed, as charismatic as Joe and can immediately work

721
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: you on your weaknesses, and I think it just makes

722
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: for a dangerous individual when he has it in his

723
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: head that he's this king or this god and he's

724
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: above the law, and he's he's created his altar reality,

725
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: and you know he is. I think in that one

726
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: interview he said judge, jury and executioner in his own

727
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: world that I think that makes for a very dangerous individual.

728
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: I think he's exactly where he thinking, actually thought he

729
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: was a king. I believe so. I believe he had

730
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: so complete control over that park, and just walking into

731
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: that park was like walking out of regular society into

732
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: this little crazy world that you know, he created, his

733
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: own little world. Do you think he could have personally

734
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: killed Carol Baskin? Would he have done that? I never

735
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: really at the park, I mean, I don't. I don't

736
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: think Joe would do his own dirty work, so to speak.

737
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: He you know, that's just like because now he can

738
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: sit back like he's screaming now that you know he

739
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: was set up, or he didn't transport the Cubs John

740
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: Finley and so and so transported. I think Joe is

741
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: not going to dirty himself because then he wouldn't be

742
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: able to blame it on anyone else. Do you think,

743
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: as opposed to doing it with his own hands, he

744
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: would have hired somebody, because that's sure what the tape

745
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: recording sounded like. I believe, yes, I believe that he

746
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: was very capable of hiring someone. If you could say

747
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: anything to Exotic right now, what would you say. I

748
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: have nothing to say to Joe Exotic. I don't know

749
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Joe Exotic. I don't the little glimpse I got to

750
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: him in twenty fourteen, and what I've watched go down

751
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: since then, there's nothing for me to say. Well, I

752
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: know you may be speechless, but your actions said it

753
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: all to me. You left, you left for a lot

754
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: of different reasons. Do you think that justice was served.

755
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: I don't know about some to justice being served, honestly.

756
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: You know, he had seventeen wildlife charges and he only

757
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: got four years for seventeen wildlife charges. He shot five tigers.

758
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: He didn't even get a year for each tiger that

759
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: he shot. So I would have been very much okay

760
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: with a pet he'd gotten more time, But I'm okay

761
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: with twenty two years. Kaalen. Did you have any idea

762
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: that there were many many animal carcasses buried on that property,

763
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: not just those five, but many other carcasses. I was

764
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: aware of domestic animals such as like cattle and horses

765
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: that were brought to the park to be fed out

766
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: to the tigers. Yes. At one point the zoo was

767
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: considered a rendering facility, which basically means that you can

768
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: bury the bones on the property. You have to do

769
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: it within regulations. It has to be you know, so

770
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: many feet deep and stuff like that. But I mean, yeah,

771
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: I was aware. I don't know exactly. You know, it

772
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: hasn't come out how many of the exotic animals were

773
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: actually buried there or not to my knowledge, other than

774
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: like the five that he got the charges for. It

775
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me at all if they went out there

776
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: and dug up and they found a lot. I know,

777
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, most generally, when he was putting an

778
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: animal down, the carcass were taking taken by the bone collector,

779
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: so we we didn't do a whole lot of burying

780
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: the carcasses of the cats. If there was any cat

781
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: that was the bet came and deemed it that it

782
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: had renal failure and you know, a legitimate reason that

783
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: it had to be put down, then yes, the cats,

784
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: the carcasses were shipped off to this college museum whatever

785
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: it is. But did he get money for that that?

786
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, I really I was not. I never

787
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: seen any paperwork on it when I was in the

788
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 1: gifts shop, But I don't know. I've been told Jess,

789
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: but that's purely speculation and rumor. Galen, you have stated

790
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: that what we saw in the Netflix series was just

791
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: the tip of the underbelly of the exotic animal world.

792
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: Why did you say that it's still going on. You've

793
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 1: got the Jeff Lowe, who you know, is one minute

794
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: he's saying that he set Joe up and the next

795
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: minute he's saying, no, that he just helped the Feds.

796
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: He's still down there. And when he would Oklahoma mass

797
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: breeding these cubs. I saw last night a video on

798
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: TikTok that his little baby girls sitting in the floor

799
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: and they're putting two brand new cubs barely got their

800
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: eyes open right in front over if it had not

801
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: been for the coronavirus and our COVID nineteen locked down

802
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: on our county in the state of Oklahoma. You know,

803
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: he actually stayed open for business after he was deemed unessential,

804
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: and we called the Sheriff's department to go ahead and

805
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: have him shut down because there was so many people

806
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: flocking to this facility to pay to meet him, to

807
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: play with the tigers. And the thing I really don't

808
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: get is these places you have, you know, Jeff low

809
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: with the greater whin he would you have Dads City

810
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: the Sterns, which they're in a lot of trouble. So

811
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: and you've got Tim Stark Wildlife in Need. You know,

812
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: there's so many of these places and the people they

813
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: just look at it as the place they can go

814
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: take a picture with a cub. They don't stop and

815
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: think that these are tiger meals. If I ask you

816
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 1: about a puppy meal, you're not okay with it. Well,

817
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: any cub petting facility that has baby cubs or baby

818
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: animals available for you to interact with, and you pay

819
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: to interact with, they're breeding these for that purpose. They

820
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: are a tiger meal or a sloth meal or a

821
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: lean bottle line. It's still going on and nothing has changed.

822
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: And I'm curious about if he was illegally selling these

823
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: baby tigers to other dealers and fraud and you know,

824
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: lying on the papers who bought the tigers, who took

825
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: them illegally. They weren't supposed to that either. And I

826
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: hadn't heard a word about that prosecution. I gotta want

827
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: to ask you one more thing, Helian. The way he

828
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: carried on in the Netflix documentary, did he always dress

829
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: up like that every single day? It was like a

830
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: dress up party? You know? It kind of wasn't And

831
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 1: that's interesting because I had had a conversation. I didn't

832
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: really notice that that much about him, like in the

833
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: beginning when I first met him and stuff, and then

834
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: he was very good at show. But I sat down

835
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: and I talked to his sister. She and I become

836
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: quite close and become really really good friends through this,

837
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: because you know, we kind of we kind of can relate.

838
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: I can't go talk to my other friends because they

839
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: don't know what the heck I'm talking about, because a

840
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: lot of times there's no way to describe it. But

841
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: she said that, you know, yes, even past the point

842
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: most of us grow out of playing dress up and

843
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: pretending to be somebody that were not that. Joe went

844
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: past that point, and I honestly did not see it

845
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: until twenty fourteen. I mean, you know, the whole, the

846
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: whole singing thing. Let's put that in perspective. He had

847
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:14,240
Speaker 1: headshot pictures made. He had CMT Country Recording artists put

848
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: on the bottom of these pictures, which he's never been

849
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: on CMT, but he had it put on these pictures.

850
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: There was one song that was performed by I believe

851
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera and a great big world called Say Something

852
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: and Joe lip sync this and did a video of

853
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: when one of his chimps passed away, and he swore

854
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: that that was his song. They were playing it on CMT,

855
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: Well they were, but it wasn't his version. They were

856
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: playing on CMT CMT it was someone else's. But I mean,

857
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 1: that's just how far he was willing to go into

858
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: his make Christina Aguilera's song was his The Great Big World,

859
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: And Christina Aguilera say something, Yes, he told guest of

860
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: the part that that was his song. Okay, I'm sure

861
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 1: Christina Aguilera will want to hear about that. But I'm

862
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: just wondering if he acted like this all the time,

863
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: even you know, a day in, day out, or if

864
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: it was all just for the camera. But he had

865
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: a camera on him day in and day out, I

866
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,959
Speaker 1: mean twenty four seven. A lot of times he would

867
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: call them. He would be down to his house watching

868
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: TV and he'd have some brainstorm and he would call

869
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: the studio people and have them come to his house

870
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: and immediately start recording or start at five o'clock in

871
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: the morning by waking him up. And I mean he

872
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: literally had a camera in the bathroom while he was vomiting.

873
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: He wanted it filmed, so he had a camera. Even Galen,

874
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD with a

875
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: psychiatry degree, so I can't figure that one out. But

876
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: I tell you what, I know this. I think you

877
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: did the right thing the day you turned your back

878
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: and walked away from a cesspool. And it hurts me

879
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: to know that it's still going on, not just there

880
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: but all over the country. Right now, I am and

881
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that all of this will make

882
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: a change, but I don't know. That's what I'm hoping.

883
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: That's my whole purpose. I have been so nervous about

884
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: this interview and stuff, but I cannot get my message

885
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: out there if I refused to talk about it. And

886
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: I have so much regret for the part that I

887
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: took in it that I just felt like that I

888
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: have to set the record straight. I have to get

889
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: this message out there. Whether people believe it or listen

890
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: to it or not, that's on them. But at least

891
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: I tried, and you know what, that's what matters. You

892
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: may not win, but at least you tried. You went

893
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: down swinging this Eastwood, thank you for being with us.

894
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: You