1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls podcasts, a 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Ay y'all, thanks so much for joining me for this 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: week's episode of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. For 12 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: today's episode, I'm joined by shaked To Robinson. Bruce Shakeda 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: is a National Certified counselor and a license professional counselor 14 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia. She obtained a Masters of 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: Science degree in Counseling and Human Development and a Bachelor 16 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: of Science degree in psychology from Ture University. She is 17 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: currently pursuing a doctoral degree from Argossa University in counselor 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: education and Supervision. Shakeda is the owner and founder of 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: Open Arms Counseling Center in Atlanta, Georgia, where she provides 20 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: counseling for women adolescents in the African American community. She 21 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: has received a certification as a clinical hypnotherapist and specialized 22 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: training in cognitive processing therapy, both of which she uses 23 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: to treat trauma and PTSD. Shakeda and I chatted about 24 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: the definition of intergenerational trauma, what this looks like in 25 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: our community, how it impacts our relationships, how therapy can 26 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: help to heal from intergener rational trauma, and of course, 27 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: she shared her favorite books about this topic in case 28 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: you want to read more. If you hear something you'd 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: like to share why you're listening, please share it on 30 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's our conversation. 31 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us today, Shakita, 32 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Dr Joyce. I'm 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: very excited to have you here to talk about one 34 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: of your specialties, which is working with clients with generational 35 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: trauma um. So can you define that for us? What 36 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: is generational trauma? So essentially, generational trauma is the effects 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: of trauma that is passed down through the generations. It 38 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: has also been referred to or called historical trauma, cultural trauma, 39 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma, or transgenerational trauma. It affects groups of people. 40 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: So historically that has been people that have been affected 41 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: have been Native Americans, Holocaust survivors, and of course African 42 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: Americans through slavery. Got it, Okay? So people may have 43 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: heard any number of those terms. And that's basically what 44 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about today. Yes, how it 45 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: affects us now and what it looks like. Yeah, And 46 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: I definitely want to dive into that right because I 47 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: don't know that that's always clear how it is passed on, 48 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, generations later. So can you explain that to us? Sure? Um, 49 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: it's so rich and complex and multilayered. Um, it can 50 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: be passed down through behaviors and beliefs and our DNA 51 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: and genetics. So yes. So, Um, if a parent, if 52 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: you have a parent or a grandparent that experienced trauma 53 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: or so if they were affected by I don't know, 54 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: a single traumatic incident, um that has shaped how they 55 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: see the world and how they interact with others, and 56 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: that pattern is passed down through parenting to their child 57 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: or children and grandchildren. So if a parent grandparent has 58 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: experienced or traumatic events or multiple traumatic events and have 59 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: not had resources or done any type of work to 60 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: recover from that. It can't impact how they parent their children, 61 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: and it can be passed down through generations emotionally, behaviorally, psychologically. Okay, 62 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: And I'm guessing, um, much of the research and stuff 63 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: that has been done in this area is similar to 64 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, like how there are studies that talk about 65 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: the way traumatic experience actually changes, like the neurons in 66 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: your brain and things are rewired differently sometimes after a 67 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: traumatic event. So I'm guessing that's what the DNA part 68 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: is talking about. Yes, So studies have shown that UM 69 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 1: when and children or UM someone experienced long term trauma, 70 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: so over a period of time or multiple times, it 71 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: can actually change the functioning and operation of your DNA, 72 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: and that can become permanent and your makeup biologically, and 73 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: that can be passed down through your genes to your 74 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: children as well. Got it? Okay? Okay, So how would 75 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: somebody know if this is something that is showing up 76 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: for them? It can show up through violence, aggression, abuse, neglect, 77 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: mistrust of others, and nomine behaviors like abusing drugs and alcohol. 78 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: It can show up really and how you interact with 79 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: others and how you view the world and how would 80 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: you I'm guessing, UM, this would only be through like 81 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: an interview that you would maybe might be able to 82 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: get at some of this right, like doing some history 83 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: around UM, maybe what the relationship was like with parents 84 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: or caregivers to kind of connect some of these dots. Yes, 85 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: so UM. There's a screening form I use with clients 86 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: called the Life Events Checklist, and it UM just acts 87 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: different scenarios, different questions about specific events you may or 88 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: may not have experienced. UM. And a lot of times 89 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: people don't understand what trauma is or what it looks like. 90 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: And so a lot of times in initial session, I 91 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: may be taking history and a client may refer to 92 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: being repeatedly beaten by a parent, and that's been normalized 93 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: in our culture and society as a you know, acceptable 94 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: form of discipline in some cultures, and you know, they 95 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 1: may think nothing of it. At that point, I would 96 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: kind of ask them further questions about, well, how do 97 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: you feel about your parents now or UM, just disaffect 98 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: you now? If they answer yes, how does it affect 99 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: you now? Well, I don't like to be around certain objects, 100 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: or I may have flashbacks about this, or if I'm 101 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 1: around this person, it reminds me of when they did that. 102 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: And all of those are examples of traumatic reactions that 103 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: still continue to affect you. And so they may not 104 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: look at it as trauma, and to me as a therapist, 105 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: puts the word to it and say, well that that 106 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: sounds very traumatic. And so saying that and pointed out 107 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: to them in that way can kind of help them 108 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: understand that it was not a normal form of discipline, 109 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: that it's just not something everybody goes through, right, right, Yeah, 110 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people, um, you know, 111 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: unfortunately have grown up in such traumatic environments and like 112 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: repeat did incidences of trauma that you know, until they 113 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: maybe get out of the house and start talking to 114 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: other people, they don't realize that everybody doesn't have that 115 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: same kind of experience. Everybody doesn't have that same kind 116 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: of um history with their parents, right exactly. I just 117 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: thought of an example. Um and Tiffany hates his book 118 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: The Last Unicorn. She talked about living at this foster 119 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: home and the older gentleman who was there, I think 120 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: it was the foster mom's grandfather. Someone would tell her, 121 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you let me suck your preasures, chitties 122 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: are grows. And she was like, okay, she didn't think 123 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: nothing other but this happened to her for several years. 124 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until she was older and out of 125 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: that home and talking to a friend and a friend 126 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: told her that was abused and she didn't, you know, 127 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: been thinking anything of it. But that's very common in 128 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: our society that you know, things like this are swept 129 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: under the rug or kept secret because of shame or 130 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: and our culture. You know, we don't tell our personal business. 131 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: But that's how that cycle gets repeated over and over again. Yeah, 132 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: it kind of also reminds me of you know, there 133 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: have been more people kind of coming forward and sharing 134 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: their experiences with sexual assault, right, and um, you know, 135 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: it has been I think interesting to watch even people 136 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: online say like, oh, that happened to me, But I 137 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: never would have called that like rape or I never 138 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: would have called that sexual assault. Right. And so until 139 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: you realize and have these conversations with other people, you 140 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: may not necessarily even call it that thing. Right. We 141 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: have to begin to put a word who would put 142 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: the exact appropriate word to it? Right? And So I'm 143 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: interested in hearing Shakida because you mentioned you know, different 144 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: cultural groups, like just histories of oppression and awful things 145 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: that have happened to different groups of people in our 146 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: society and in the world. UM, I'm interested in hearing 147 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: more about, like specific to the Black community, related to 148 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, our origins of slavery. What kinds of things 149 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: behavior wise we have come out of that that you 150 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: maybe see with some clients or you know in your 151 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: experiences or research, what kinds of things have you seen? UM. 152 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: What stands out most I think is very UM relevant 153 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: right now is distrust of police or white people in authority, 154 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: distrust distrust of the government. UM. I have a lot 155 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: of clients who work in corporate America and you know, 156 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: talk about experiencing microaggressions because they wear their natural hair 157 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: to work or um being you know, looked at and 158 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, viewed a certain white if they are in 159 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: management and not feeling respected. It shows up mostly that 160 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: way in my practice. UM. But in in in the 161 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: research I've been reading, it's very generalized to not trusting 162 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: you know, Caucasian men or Caucasian man who are in 163 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: authority or the police, any type of authority figures, there's suspicion, mistrust, 164 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: or anxiety around these individuals. Yeah, And I think that's 165 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: really interesting because it doesn't feel like that has ever 166 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: Like there hasn't ever been a time in history where 167 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: it's really been okay for us to not have that right. 168 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: It's like, I think the anxiety is warranted. You know, 169 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: so if you've started with the origin of the slavery, 170 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: but even now when you look at the news and 171 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: the experiences that people have with police officers and other 172 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: authority figures or even non authority figures who wants to 173 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: be authority figures? Right, Um, there there there's a real 174 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: reason to be nervous and anxious about you know, what 175 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: could happen if this person approaches you or if that 176 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: situation doesn't go well. And so the way it is 177 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: passed on now, um culturally is you know, we're seeing 178 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, videos and images on social media and on 179 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: the new that kind of create anxiety. It didn't happen 180 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: to us directly, but it happens to you know, someone 181 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: we identify with culturally, ethnically. And I remember I just 182 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: had a client, um not too long ago, had neighbors 183 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: called the police on someone who was just passing through 184 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: and the pain this client failed, and you know the 185 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: need to protect this person because she identified with them. 186 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 1: It's just kind of you connect, you're you're, we're connected, 187 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: and we we feel that pain even though we didn't 188 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: experience it directly. So there is um what we call 189 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: hyper arrivals where we're like easily to be thrown into 190 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: that fight or flight mode, this need to protect each 191 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: other because we've seen the brutality and oppression that's been 192 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: placed on other people that we are connected with ethnically 193 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: and culturally, other black brothers and sisters. And something else 194 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about, um that I don't know that 195 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: I would have connected to this generational trauma, but I 196 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: feel like it could be related. Is this whole idea 197 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: that we have to have a talk with our children 198 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: at some point about how to interact with police officers 199 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: and how to you know, have conversations with authority figures. 200 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: And in some ways I feel very resentful, and I 201 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: think lots of parents do right like that I will 202 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: have to have this conversation with my children in a 203 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: way that other communities don't have to have for their children. 204 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: And you know, feeling like that takes some of their innocence, 205 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: but also wanting to help them be safe. Yeah. Um, 206 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: and I have a three and an eight year old, 207 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: and I started having that conversation with my eight year 208 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: old earlier this year and last year. It is difficult 209 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: because you want them to stay innocent as long as possible, 210 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: but we have to prepare them for the real world 211 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: and what they may face as young black men. Yeah. Yeah. 212 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: The other thing I was gonna touch on how it 213 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: can play out is historically we have not been in 214 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: places and had resources where we are financially literate or 215 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: prepared for building our wealth. And so we a lot 216 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: of us come from place, you know, families where their 217 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: lower class, even though they worked hard and went to 218 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: work every day, we still saw our parents and grandparents struggle. 219 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: And so there hasn't been conversations and preparations to prepare 220 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: our future generations for financial literacy. And I think that 221 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: is tied into intergenerational trauma as well. Yes, And it 222 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: does feel like that kind of psycho continues to be 223 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: perpetuated when you see these conversations about old people would 224 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: rather buy Jordan's than buy stock, and you know, like 225 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: just really misguided conversations, not not taking into account you 226 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: know that we are not coming from generational wealth usually, 227 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: and so you know, like almost being people of any 228 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: amount of joy that they would want to have because 229 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: it makes them feel good to buy new shoes or 230 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing. You know. I think 231 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of context that's missed when people trying 232 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: to have those conversations and it doesn't take into account 233 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: this whole generational trauma thing you're talking about. Yeah, so 234 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: what would work look like, Shaquita? You know, like, let's 235 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: say somebody comes to you and you figure out, okay, 236 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: this is connected to generational trauma. What kinds of things 237 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: might you do with a client to help them work 238 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: through some of these issues? UM? There are different approaches 239 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: I take UM and talk therapy. UM one being cognitive 240 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: behavioral therapy, which teach us the client help client or 241 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,119 Speaker 1: become aware of their thoughts that they have with themselves 242 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: about themselves to themselves, UM and just helping them trying 243 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: to understand or identify if those thoughts are rational or irrational, 244 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: and helping them connect to helping them understand the connection 245 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: between their thoughts and their emotions and their behaviors UM, 246 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: helping them understand the connection between those and replacing those 247 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: thoughts if they are negative thoughts and unhealthy thoughts, replacing 248 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: those thoughts with more healthier thoughts or alternative thoughts. UM. 249 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: That is one technique or strategy. The other one is 250 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: behavioral activities. Assign a lot of a lot of times, 251 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: I'll assign homework outside of sessions, UM, and that may 252 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: consist of a lot of writing about your traumatic experiences 253 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: or emotionally collect you didn't get or emotionally like you 254 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: received and how do you what do you want to 255 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: do about that? So a lot of processing what is 256 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: being written outside of sessions, and may train clients in 257 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: learning how to relax because a lot of clients who 258 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: have trauma histories have difficulty trusting others and have difficulty relaxing. 259 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: So I do a lot of relaxation training, helping them 260 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: learn how to meditate, doing breathing exercises, guided imagery. UM, 261 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: there's a technique called progressive muscle relaxation, and just really 262 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: helping them become more in tune with their body and 263 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: learning how to relax. Okay, and I know that you 264 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: know a lot of times when you're doing trauma work, 265 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: there is a process of kind of teaching the client 266 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: how to tolerate the topics that are going to come up. 267 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: Because I know a lot of clients are you know, 268 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: potential clients will say, I want to start therapy, but 269 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: I'm afraid because I don't want to like open this 270 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: closet that I've been shoving all this stuff into you 271 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: for a long time. Right, And so it sounds like 272 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: probably some of those things you're talking about with the 273 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: progressive muscle relaxation and the guided imagery would be things 274 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: that you would teach before you dig dig into the closet. Yes. 275 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: So there's a specific um form of therapy that I'm 276 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: trained in called cognitive processing therapy and it started out 277 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: as a treatment for veterans with PTSD and it's now 278 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: used with trauma victims in general or trauma survivors in general, 279 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: And the goal is to get the client to become tolerable, 280 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: into sit and allow themselves to feel because a lot 281 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: of times survivors are trauma engaged in avoiding behaviors, they 282 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: do things to non themselves so they don't feel all 283 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: of these intense emotions. And so the CPT therapy is 284 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: very structured and the focus is to get the client 285 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: to feel their emotions, however intense they may be. And 286 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: over time you see that those emotions aren't as strong. 287 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: But like you're saying, of first, you want to establish 288 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: safety and help them build some coping strategies to kind 289 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: of soothe themselves when they begin to feel those things. 290 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: So I am also curious, Hikeita, because there was, um 291 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: a recent article written in Madam Noir um, which is 292 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: a popular popular platform for black women, UM and articles 293 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: and you know, things that are centered around like the 294 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: black woman's experience, and um it went around a lot, 295 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: you know. So I did think that it was important 296 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: to talk about because when I think about generational trauma 297 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: sometimes I also connect that to the sometimes very tenuous 298 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: relationship between black mothers and daughters, um, you know. And 299 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: I think that this is often a taboo topic because 300 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, the Ten Commandments. I know that my mother 301 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: and father, um, you know, like mothers are supposed to 302 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: be revered in our culture. But I do think that 303 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: has not allowed us to have some very important conversations 304 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: about some of the horn that has also been caused 305 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: by a lot of our mothers. So do you connect 306 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: that to generational trauma. Do you see that as completely separate. 307 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: I think it's tied in um, and I think it 308 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: may again deal with some type of trauma that the 309 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: mother or the mother's mother has experienced. When I'm thinking 310 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: about the trauma symptoms or trauma reactions as it relates 311 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: to mother daughter relationships, what I have seen is mothers 312 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: don't show emotion or feel like, I can't have this 313 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: connection with you because you're gonna think I'm your friends, right, 314 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: and then you're gonna just then you you think, um, 315 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: you're my equally gonna you know, want to disrespect me 316 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 1: or try to run over me. And so there's this 317 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: there's this power struggle and this need to you know, 318 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: to stay in control, which again goes back to a 319 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: trauma symptom. UM. There's this issue with the need to 320 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: feel in control at all times. And so you see 321 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: that in mother daughter relationships. You see the emotional neglect 322 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: because old school mothers, you know, they feel like you 323 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: got a roof over your head, you got clothes over 324 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: your back. You know, be quiet, go sit down, that's 325 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: all you need. Your child rum. And there's this this 326 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: common thing growing up where I grew up that a 327 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: child should be seen and not heard or stay in 328 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: a child's place, and so the message that sends to 329 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: a child is my voice doesn't matter, And so they 330 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: grow up feeling invalidated. But with that, you can also 331 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: have that child to go up and repeat that cycle 332 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: and engage in those very same behaviors as a parent themselves. Yeah, 333 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: And I do think it is interesting to look at 334 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: this through a trauma lens because a lot of that 335 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: I think spurred from a survival kind of thing, right, Like, um, 336 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: you know are rebellion thing like having to have difficult 337 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: interactions with your slave owners and you know, kind of 338 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: wanting to be not be seen so that you don't 339 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: draw attention to yourself, right. And so I think for 340 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: most behaviors, and this is what we kind of talk 341 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: about in the field, right, like, they usually start from 342 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: somewhere that is abductive and needed, but then it turns 343 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: into something that is not productive and right and not healthy. 344 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: And we don't sometimes realize that and don't realize that 345 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: we're continuing to perpetuate that cycle. But I do think 346 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: it's important even though we know where it may come from, 347 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: it's still very harmful, right, And so I think that's 348 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: where I see a lot of sisters struggling, like, Okay, 349 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: they may even understand where some of the things that 350 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: mom does come from, but that doesn't mean it's not 351 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: hurtful and harmful. So what kinds of tips or strategies 352 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: might you have for people who are struggling, you know, 353 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: like they want mom to change, but of course mom 354 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: is not going to change um and they have these 355 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: very difficult relationships with their moms. The person who wants 356 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: their mom to change, I would suggest initially trying to 357 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: have an open dialogue. That isn't always successful because a 358 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: lot of times mothers, you know, if you try to 359 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: sometimes approach them with things that you felt like you 360 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: didn't get in childhood, you know that it feels like 361 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: an atte And so if the mother isn't receptive to that, 362 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: I would suggest to the daughter, you know, learning healthy batteries, 363 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: learning to you know, set limits and understand that you know, 364 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: saying no that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It's 365 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: what you need to maintain peace and emotional safety. You know, 366 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: you have to come to a place of acceptance that 367 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: they may not ever understand, and they may not ever 368 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: give you that apology, being okay with that, and being 369 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: learning to give yourself what you didn't get or identify 370 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: people who who have given you those things you didn't 371 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: get from your mother. Right. And I also think, um, 372 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: I think because people are open and being more willing 373 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: to share their experiences about maybe not so good relationships 374 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: with their mothers, I think that there has also been 375 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: some comfort and people realizing that this was not about them, 376 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: right because of course, as a child, you don't necessarily 377 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: have the vocabulary to understand like why mom is treating 378 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: me this way? And I think that lead to, you know, 379 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: a feeling like I did something wrong to make Mom 380 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: treat me this way. So if I'm having other people 381 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: validate that experience also helps, Yes, excellent, exactly. Yeah. So 382 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: what are your favorite resources shakida for people who maybe 383 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: want to learn more about this or books that you 384 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: find yourself frequently recommending to some of your clients. First 385 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: and foremost as it relates to anti generational trauma is 386 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: booked by Dr Joy de Grew called Post Traumatic Slave 387 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: Syndrome UM. The other one as it relates to how 388 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: trauma affects our bodies and our attachment where our parents. Um, 389 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: it's called The Body Keeps the Score by bessel Vandercolt. Okay, Yeah, 390 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: that's a one that's frequently recommended here on the podcast. Yes, yes, 391 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: it can be intense and times, but you know, I 392 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: was just kind of reading it and in certain spirts 393 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: and you know, take taking a break when you need 394 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: to god it any others? Um? The other ones is 395 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: um Boundaries by Handy Hanry Cloud and John Townsend. Another favorite. Yes, 396 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: And um, I think that's that's it. I can't think 397 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: of any other ones right off the top of my head. Okay. 398 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: And where can we find you, Shakida? I'm sure people 399 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: will want to ask you more questions after they hear 400 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: the episode and get involved with whatever you have going on? 401 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: Where can we find you online? In any social media 402 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: handles you want to share? Um? My Facebook business page 403 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: is at Open Arms Counseling Center and my website is 404 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: www dot Open Arms Counseling Center dot com. Okay, And 405 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: anything going on that you want to share with people 406 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: any um, like workbooks are workshops you're having soon? No? 407 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: Not yet? Okay. So people can stay tuned and stay 408 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: connected with you on Facebook if they want to learn 409 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 1: more about that. Yes, definitely perfect perfect. Well, thank you 410 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: so much for chatting with us today, Shakeia, I appreciate it. 411 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I am so grateful. Thank you. 412 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful Shakida was able to share her expertise 413 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: with us today. You can find more information about the 414 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: books she suggested and her practice in the show notes. 415 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: You can find those at Therapy for Black Girls dot 416 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: com slash Session sixty nine. And we also love it 417 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: if you made sure to share this episode with two 418 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: people in your life, or you can share your takeaways 419 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: from the episode with us in your Instagram stories. Make 420 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: sure to use the hashtag tv G in session. If 421 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure 422 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls 423 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: dot com slash directory. And don't forget that the tb 424 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: G merch store is now open, so if you want 425 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: to have a T shirt or a mug to show 426 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: your love for the podcast, you can do that at 427 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com. So last shop, and 428 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: if you want to continue the conversation that we started 429 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: on the podcast, come on over and join us in 430 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: the thrive tribe. You can find it at Therapy for 431 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash tribe and make sure you 432 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: answer the three questions that are asked to gain entry. 433 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week, 434 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: and I look forward to continue in this conversation with 435 00:27:28,920 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take get care, doctor, doctor actor 436 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: or