WEBVTT - Jade Begay: Indigenous People Were The First Climate Scientists 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.996 Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Last month 0:00:26.036 --> 0:00:28.596 I spoke with doctor Adrian King, a citizen of the 0:00:28.676 --> 0:00:32.276 Cherokee Nation and notable Native scholar and author. We talked 0:00:32.276 --> 0:00:35.876 about Native erasure. We covered everything from visibility to lance, 0:00:35.916 --> 0:00:38.916 sovereignty to appropriation. But there was one part of our 0:00:38.956 --> 0:00:41.396 conversation that didn't make it into the episode that I 0:00:41.476 --> 0:00:44.996 kept returning to when putting together this week's show. If 0:00:44.996 --> 0:00:48.836 we're thinking about the future and like the climate catastrophe 0:00:48.836 --> 0:00:51.596 that is coming and everything that is just feels like 0:00:51.636 --> 0:00:55.956 it's about to come tumbling down around us, Indigenous knowledges 0:00:56.036 --> 0:00:59.516 to me really offer us a pathway forward. We talk 0:00:59.556 --> 0:01:01.996 about climate change a lot on this show, but not 0:01:02.076 --> 0:01:06.156 often enough with members of indigenous communities. In fact, Indigenous 0:01:06.236 --> 0:01:10.316 voices and native perspectives are noticeably under represented and climate 0:01:10.356 --> 0:01:14.356 conversations overall on a global scale. But the indie In 0:01:14.636 --> 0:01:19.196 Collective and Indigenous Led organization based in South Dakota believes 0:01:19.236 --> 0:01:23.356 that effective climate policy can only be achieved by considering 0:01:23.436 --> 0:01:29.916 all communities, perspectives, and solutions. Indigenous peoples across the world 0:01:30.276 --> 0:01:37.636 are the world's first climate scientists. We were understanding ecosystems 0:01:37.676 --> 0:01:43.636 and how they worked, long before Columbus set foot in 0:01:43.716 --> 0:01:48.196 the America's long before there was such a thing as 0:01:48.196 --> 0:01:52.876 a climate scientist. Jade Bigey is the director of the 0:01:52.916 --> 0:01:57.996 Indian Collectives Climate Justice Campaign and is Navajo and Tasuki 0:01:58.116 --> 0:02:01.876 Pueblo of New Mexico. Much of her work centers around 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:06.156 including Indigenous voices and climate discussions and finding opportunities to 0:02:06.236 --> 0:02:09.876 employ indigenous solutions and the fight for our future. I 0:02:09.876 --> 0:02:14.036 want to see climate policy informed by our people, for 0:02:14.196 --> 0:02:17.636 our people. We spoke with Jade as she was attending 0:02:17.676 --> 0:02:20.916 the United Nations Conference of the Parties or the cop 0:02:21.316 --> 0:02:24.676 where thousands of people were gathering to discuss climate solutions. 0:02:25.636 --> 0:02:29.996 Native and Indigenous practices can be injected into the climate 0:02:29.996 --> 0:02:41.956 fight to solve previously unsolvable problems. Jade, would you consider 0:02:41.956 --> 0:02:44.996 yourself to be a nature lover? I do consider myself 0:02:44.996 --> 0:02:49.716 a nature lover. Check my Airbnb profile. I am like 0:02:50.556 --> 0:02:54.436 I'm like, I'd rather be in the rural forests and 0:02:54.996 --> 0:02:59.756 the places with no Wi Fi. And yeah, definitely. I'm 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:06.276 a horse writer at heart. I'm a backcountry hiker and skier. 0:03:06.716 --> 0:03:09.556 That's what I do during my off time to find 0:03:09.676 --> 0:03:13.756 joy I grew up playing in the snow and in 0:03:13.796 --> 0:03:17.596 the mountains with all the aspens. That's where I feel 0:03:17.596 --> 0:03:23.196 almost myself. And I think we become more centered, more grounded, 0:03:23.356 --> 0:03:27.516 and really can connect with who we truly are when 0:03:27.516 --> 0:03:31.476 we're in these spaces. So I'm seeing you light up 0:03:31.516 --> 0:03:34.876 when you're talking about nature and you mentioned being in 0:03:34.956 --> 0:03:38.836 it makes you feel more like who you truly are. 0:03:39.556 --> 0:03:43.436 Tell me more about your identity and how that impacts 0:03:43.516 --> 0:03:46.476 and inspires the work that you do. Yeah, I believe 0:03:47.036 --> 0:03:54.756 my tribal identity and my cultural identity is ninety nine 0:03:54.796 --> 0:03:59.396 point nine percent of why I do what I do. Definitely, 0:03:59.636 --> 0:04:05.036 growing up traditionally so connected to my language and ceremony 0:04:05.396 --> 0:04:10.476 has also been a really huge factor. And a lot 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:14.836 of people I've worked with from indigenous communities, whether that's 0:04:15.356 --> 0:04:21.156 indigenous peoples in the Amazon or indigenous peoples in the Arctic, 0:04:21.876 --> 0:04:26.876 if they lose their territories, if they have a river 0:04:27.276 --> 0:04:32.276 that is poisoned by oil or by any other type 0:04:32.276 --> 0:04:36.556 of pollution, that is a part of their identity. You 0:04:36.636 --> 0:04:42.316 can't have the health of community and the health of 0:04:42.796 --> 0:04:46.956 nature be separate. And something I would love to see 0:04:46.956 --> 0:04:53.636 in climate policy that would honor indigenous rights and indigenous cosmology. 0:04:53.996 --> 0:04:58.276 Is the rights of nature something that we're seeing playing 0:04:58.316 --> 0:05:03.476 out in places like New Zealand where rivers have rights 0:05:03.516 --> 0:05:06.756 just like humans have rights. Jade, you gave us an 0:05:06.756 --> 0:05:10.596 example from New Zealand. What do you think US climate 0:05:10.636 --> 0:05:15.316 policy might look like when it better reflects and incorporates 0:05:15.556 --> 0:05:18.996 native values? Where should it start? I think it'd be 0:05:19.036 --> 0:05:28.596 great to see climate policy reflect our demands for land back. Generally, 0:05:28.676 --> 0:05:32.676 when we're talking about land back as organizing groups, as 0:05:32.876 --> 0:05:39.076 grassroots organizations, as frontline communities, we're not talking about making 0:05:39.196 --> 0:05:43.836 people go back to wherever they came from, but it's 0:05:43.876 --> 0:05:49.516 really about having sovereignty and having self determination over lands 0:05:49.596 --> 0:05:55.756 that were stolen from us, and reconnecting and revitalizing culture 0:05:55.956 --> 0:06:00.036 and land practices so that we can bring the environment 0:06:00.076 --> 0:06:05.156 the climate back into a balance. The ability to have 0:06:05.316 --> 0:06:10.236 self determination it covers being able to practice our cosmologies 0:06:10.676 --> 0:06:14.596 and to practice our ways of life and have the 0:06:14.716 --> 0:06:16.836 right to be able to do so in the future. 0:06:17.476 --> 0:06:19.716 Talking about, you know, sovereignty of native lands, and you're 0:06:19.756 --> 0:06:22.876 talking about the landback movement. Last month we talked with 0:06:22.996 --> 0:06:26.996 doctor Adrian Keane and she mentioned that there's indigenous knowledge 0:06:27.076 --> 0:06:30.756 that could provide a pathway forward, especially when it comes 0:06:30.796 --> 0:06:34.836 to the impending climate catastrophe. Can you talk through what 0:06:35.036 --> 0:06:41.116 some of that knowledge is. Yeah, So, indigenous peoples across 0:06:41.156 --> 0:06:47.516 the world are the world's first climate scientists. We were 0:06:47.636 --> 0:06:55.476 understanding ecosystems and how they worked long before Columbus set foot, 0:06:55.476 --> 0:06:59.916 you know in the America's or long before you know, 0:06:59.956 --> 0:07:04.116 there was such a thing as a climate scientist. And 0:07:04.196 --> 0:07:08.476 so we have this intrinsic and this is you know, 0:07:08.676 --> 0:07:13.396 yes for people like from my community, but also indigenous 0:07:13.396 --> 0:07:16.916 peoples all over the world. We have this really old 0:07:16.996 --> 0:07:23.396 knowledge about how to keep ecosystems in balance, like whether 0:07:23.436 --> 0:07:30.356 that's knowing how to have safe birds of woods or 0:07:30.396 --> 0:07:34.596 forests to ensure that there's a reduced risk of wildfire, 0:07:35.116 --> 0:07:41.276 whether that's knowing how to create safety barriers on coasts 0:07:41.316 --> 0:07:45.636 to protect people from erosion and floods. There's all kinds 0:07:45.636 --> 0:07:48.996 of knowledge that exists out there, and those are real 0:07:49.116 --> 0:07:52.676 climate solutions and they need to be invested in, but 0:07:52.716 --> 0:07:56.876 they also need to be acknowledged in places like here 0:07:56.916 --> 0:07:59.876 at the cop where thousands of people are about to 0:08:00.636 --> 0:08:05.236 get here and discuss, you know, climate solutions Indigenous knowledge 0:08:05.276 --> 0:08:08.756 really needs to be upheld in these types of spaces, 0:08:08.836 --> 0:08:12.996 and also at the level of local and city climate 0:08:13.036 --> 0:08:18.876 management and building. When cities and towns build climate plans 0:08:19.036 --> 0:08:23.316 or adaptation plans, they need to consider local indigenous knowledge 0:08:23.596 --> 0:08:28.116 and really make relationships with those people to inform those plans. 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:32.556 Do you have any examples of where indigenous solutions are 0:08:32.636 --> 0:08:36.596 in place to help fight climate change currently? Yeah, there's 0:08:36.636 --> 0:08:40.836 so many indigenous led solutions. One I'll speak about is 0:08:41.316 --> 0:08:45.756 a local regenerative economy based on the farming of kelp 0:08:46.436 --> 0:08:51.116 and the fishing practices in southeast Alaska and the Kelp 0:08:51.276 --> 0:08:56.876 is is a many fold two, three, fourfold solution where 0:08:56.876 --> 0:09:02.356 it cleans the water, it removes carbon dioxide, it becomes 0:09:02.356 --> 0:09:05.556 a fuel, it can become a food source. They're building 0:09:05.756 --> 0:09:09.836 an economy out of that, so creating a local product 0:09:09.916 --> 0:09:13.236 that they can sell with the community and provide food 0:09:13.236 --> 0:09:16.396 to the community. And then with the fishing, they're doing 0:09:16.436 --> 0:09:20.436 something that they've always done and turning that into a 0:09:20.556 --> 0:09:25.516 program where they feed their elders and providing jobs and 0:09:25.556 --> 0:09:29.876 so it's this whole circular model, but it's addressing all 0:09:29.916 --> 0:09:33.796 the things food and equity, job and security, climate change. 0:09:34.156 --> 0:09:39.236 So that is being led by native conservancy and building 0:09:39.756 --> 0:09:43.796 land trusts and reclaiming land. And so those are the 0:09:43.836 --> 0:09:47.356 types of models that we want to empower and invest 0:09:47.436 --> 0:09:51.396 in and support. And I'll shout out my team at 0:09:51.636 --> 0:09:57.796 Expedition Studios where my dear friend and colleague and I 0:09:57.876 --> 0:10:03.676 are working on a film called Salec Yellow, which translate 0:10:03.716 --> 0:10:08.236 to Sultan Sky. And this film is about lithium mining 0:10:08.356 --> 0:10:13.236 in ChIL And so this is another climate story about 0:10:13.356 --> 0:10:17.716 how as we're building the renewable economy here in the 0:10:17.756 --> 0:10:21.436 global North and all over the world, all of those 0:10:21.676 --> 0:10:26.196 solar panels, all of those wind turbines, electric cars, etc. Etc. 0:10:26.876 --> 0:10:30.436 They need lithium, They need minerals for the batteries. But 0:10:30.476 --> 0:10:34.716 where where does that come from? Indigenous lands? So again 0:10:34.876 --> 0:10:38.756 we're creating this other, you know, this other dynamic of 0:10:38.916 --> 0:10:43.156 consuming and taking too much than what a community or 0:10:43.196 --> 0:10:45.756 the earth can handle. And how do we deal with that. 0:10:46.676 --> 0:10:50.196 Part of the problem of pushing for policy change is 0:10:50.236 --> 0:10:54.316 that there's a tendency to try to solve many nuanced 0:10:54.356 --> 0:10:59.236 issues with one federal bill. Is there a strategy for 0:10:59.316 --> 0:11:02.716 addressing the ways in which different communities are affected by 0:11:02.756 --> 0:11:06.356 climate change with a more tailored approach. Yeah, so I 0:11:06.396 --> 0:11:09.716 think a lot of climate and environmental justice dis groups 0:11:09.836 --> 0:11:14.436 are already saying one says does not fit all. With 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:17.356 my role in the wee Jack, the White House Environmental 0:11:17.396 --> 0:11:23.156 Justice Advisory Council, I'm actually fairly impressed by the diversity 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:27.876 of people on that Advisory Council to do. To do 0:11:27.956 --> 0:11:32.756 just this, we have to pressure within the EPA, within 0:11:33.556 --> 0:11:36.876 you know, the White House Climate Team, the Army Corps 0:11:36.876 --> 0:11:41.596 of Engineers, etc. Make who make these decisions that impact 0:11:41.596 --> 0:11:46.116 our community. We have to create indicators for them to 0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:50.596 get the capacity to understand the nuances of all these 0:11:50.636 --> 0:11:54.996 different communities. And it's not just with you know, solutions building, 0:11:55.396 --> 0:11:59.156 it's also about investment. And my team at end In 0:11:59.236 --> 0:12:01.916 Collective we wrote a memo on this this past summer. 0:12:02.676 --> 0:12:07.116 We knew that the infrastructure package was coming down the line, 0:12:07.516 --> 0:12:12.636 and one big capacity gap in small communities or rural 0:12:12.676 --> 0:12:19.396 communities and tribes for example, is capacity to distribute funding equitably. 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:24.356 And so something that we're doing now is advising these groups, 0:12:25.356 --> 0:12:30.596 these agencies to also invest in capacity so that when 0:12:30.756 --> 0:12:35.356 these communities receive all this funding, it can flow and 0:12:36.196 --> 0:12:40.276 not just flow in one zone, but flow across the 0:12:40.316 --> 0:12:54.516 community in an equitable way. So I'm pretty passionate about race, 0:12:54.556 --> 0:12:58.076 and I think that's come through on the show were 0:12:58.116 --> 0:13:00.476 the one episode. But I think one thing that I 0:13:00.516 --> 0:13:04.596 don't think about is often is issues of environmental justice. 0:13:05.236 --> 0:13:09.196 How does the fight for racial equity intersect with with 0:13:09.476 --> 0:13:14.236 your work to craft climate policy. Racial equity is climate justice, 0:13:14.596 --> 0:13:20.756 and climate justice is racial equities. So climate policy could 0:13:20.796 --> 0:13:27.916 include practical ideas of decolonization, taking into account things like truth, reconciliation, 0:13:27.956 --> 0:13:33.196 and reparations. You know, those types of practices on the 0:13:33.236 --> 0:13:36.276 city council level, at the state level, at the national 0:13:36.356 --> 0:13:41.196 level really do have impacts that you know, are really 0:13:41.196 --> 0:13:44.956 connected to like racial equity. You know, when we are 0:13:44.996 --> 0:13:50.236 able to claim land back or reclaim our lands. In 0:13:50.276 --> 0:13:54.156 some cases, yes, maybe there is like conservation models happening 0:13:54.556 --> 0:13:58.636 where we're protecting land or protecting sacred sites, but in 0:13:58.676 --> 0:14:03.516 other cases developing land so that we can welcome our 0:14:03.556 --> 0:14:07.316 relatives who have had to move because of climate impacts. 0:14:07.996 --> 0:14:11.556 We're really thinking about where we're headed and these are 0:14:11.636 --> 0:14:17.716 the realities, and we're really trying to prepare for all 0:14:17.756 --> 0:14:21.676 of the challenges. You're on the Environmental Justice Advisory council, 0:14:21.876 --> 0:14:24.476 So you're actually in there doing the work. What's it 0:14:24.556 --> 0:14:27.996 like working within that political system knowing that it's a 0:14:28.076 --> 0:14:31.276 system that in the past has been oppressive towards Native 0:14:31.276 --> 0:14:34.476 and Indigenous folks? What does that look like working in 0:14:34.476 --> 0:14:36.676 that system in order to actually create the type of 0:14:36.716 --> 0:14:42.316 change that you need. Working in this system, it's been challenging, 0:14:42.396 --> 0:14:49.196 it's been frustrating, but all with the nuance that we've 0:14:49.236 --> 0:14:53.556 made a lot of progress. Deb Halland is the Secretary 0:14:53.636 --> 0:15:00.556 of Interior and managing department that oversees the BIA, the 0:15:00.596 --> 0:15:05.356 Bureau of Indian Affairs, and never before has an Indigenous 0:15:05.396 --> 0:15:09.476 person held that role. Now we have an Indigenous person 0:15:10.316 --> 0:15:15.396 making decisions about a department that really impacts our people 0:15:15.476 --> 0:15:21.316 and our tribes. So I feel a lot more comfortable 0:15:21.436 --> 0:15:25.076 working within a system that has made that type of progress. 0:15:25.636 --> 0:15:30.516 I'm also seeing grassroots leaders such as myself in these 0:15:30.556 --> 0:15:36.676 types of roles, advising, giving guidance, helping these agencies navigate 0:15:37.836 --> 0:15:41.836 really the changing landscape when we're talking about what equity means, 0:15:41.876 --> 0:15:46.156 when we talk about what justice means, and really from 0:15:46.196 --> 0:15:50.996 a foundational place of wanting to dismantle white supremacy within 0:15:51.076 --> 0:15:56.116 these systems, I also see grassroots leaders holding roles in 0:15:56.516 --> 0:16:00.556 the Department of Indian Energy. For example, my clan sister 0:16:00.916 --> 0:16:05.676 Hala John's as Salt of the Earth organizer from Navajo Nation, 0:16:06.236 --> 0:16:10.196 who has worked so hard for her people to transition 0:16:10.356 --> 0:16:16.396 from coal energy to renewable energy, is now leading that department. 0:16:16.956 --> 0:16:19.756 So I think it's all to say that it's always 0:16:19.796 --> 0:16:24.356 going to be frustrating working within these systems until we've 0:16:24.396 --> 0:16:29.196 really changed them, until we've achieved our big movement goals 0:16:29.276 --> 0:16:34.316 of systems change. But the progress that we've made, especially 0:16:34.916 --> 0:16:38.476 considering the last four years, it's really huge, and I 0:16:39.396 --> 0:16:42.076 urge people all the time that I work with, that 0:16:42.196 --> 0:16:46.116 I speak to, that follow me on social media to 0:16:46.156 --> 0:16:49.796 not take that for granted, knowing that in the next 0:16:49.796 --> 0:16:51.476 four years we could have a different president who has 0:16:51.476 --> 0:16:54.916 a different agenda. How do you plan to keep this 0:16:54.956 --> 0:17:01.036 agenda moving forward despite ever changing political landscape, Ronald, This 0:17:01.156 --> 0:17:06.156 is a fast and nuanced question. We won the twenty 0:17:06.236 --> 0:17:10.636 twenty election by a hair you know, it was so close, 0:17:11.276 --> 0:17:16.036 and so we need to be working in better relationship 0:17:16.836 --> 0:17:21.036 now and through next year in the lead up to 0:17:22.116 --> 0:17:27.476 the next presidential election. If we continue to play this 0:17:27.556 --> 0:17:31.956 kind of you know, woke police against each other and 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:34.796 shut each other down because we're not, you know, the 0:17:34.796 --> 0:17:40.156 perfect model of equity or justice, then we're really going 0:17:40.236 --> 0:17:45.396 to continue to stay divided and see our progressive movements 0:17:45.476 --> 0:17:49.276 separate and diverge. You know what I'm not seeing is 0:17:49.676 --> 0:17:52.396 the other side separate in the way that we are, 0:17:52.516 --> 0:18:02.956 and that really concerns me. Where can listeners learn more 0:18:03.196 --> 0:18:06.516 about the causes that you're focused on? Are there films, books, 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:10.556 anything like that? Yeah? Yeah, so our handles are all 0:18:10.556 --> 0:18:14.076 the same on all the platforms. And DAN Collective and 0:18:14.116 --> 0:18:19.516 then my entire undergrad I was watching documentaries and learning 0:18:19.556 --> 0:18:24.196 about people. A lot of these stories were about the environment, 0:18:24.676 --> 0:18:29.396 and one documentary that impacted me the most, I think 0:18:29.636 --> 0:18:35.196 to move into this direction was the documentary Chasing Ice, 0:18:35.476 --> 0:18:41.236 which is about the rate at which glaciers are melting 0:18:41.836 --> 0:18:46.196 and that advocates or climate justice. The film is by 0:18:46.276 --> 0:18:51.036 jeff Orlaski, who I can now call a really dearer 0:18:51.036 --> 0:18:56.156 and close friend and colleague. Jay, thank you so much 0:18:56.236 --> 0:18:58.956 for being with us today. We learned so much. Thank you. 0:18:59.116 --> 0:19:02.916 It's an honor to speak with you. Ja Biggay is 0:19:02.956 --> 0:19:07.236 the Indian Collectives Climate Justice Campaign director She is Navajo 0:19:07.316 --> 0:19:10.396 and Tasuki Pueblo, has a Master of Arts degree in 0:19:10.476 --> 0:19:13.716 environmental leadership and as part of President Biden's White House 0:19:13.836 --> 0:19:17.396 Environmental Justice Advisory Council. You can find a link to 0:19:17.436 --> 0:19:21.276 the Indian Collective and to Jade's film sell E Cielo 0:19:21.476 --> 0:19:25.316 in our show notes. Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, 0:19:25.756 --> 0:19:29.476 researched by David Jah, booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing 0:19:29.516 --> 0:19:33.436 producer is Sasha Matthias, and our executive producer is Mio LaBelle. 0:19:33.836 --> 0:19:36.196 I'm Ronald Young Jr. Thanks for listening.