Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Last month
Speaker 1: I spoke with doctor Adrian King, a citizen of the
Speaker 1: Cherokee Nation and notable Native scholar and author. We talked
Speaker 1: about Native erasure. We covered everything from visibility to lance,
Speaker 1: sovereignty to appropriation. But there was one part of our
Speaker 1: conversation that didn't make it into the episode that I
Speaker 1: kept returning to when putting together this week's show. If
Speaker 1: we're thinking about the future and like the climate catastrophe
Speaker 1: that is coming and everything that is just feels like
Speaker 1: it's about to come tumbling down around us, Indigenous knowledges
Speaker 1: to me really offer us a pathway forward. We talk
Speaker 1: about climate change a lot on this show, but not
Speaker 1: often enough with members of indigenous communities. In fact, Indigenous
Speaker 1: voices and native perspectives are noticeably under represented and climate
Speaker 1: conversations overall on a global scale. But the indie In
Speaker 1: Collective and Indigenous Led organization based in South Dakota believes
Speaker 1: that effective climate policy can only be achieved by considering
Speaker 1: all communities, perspectives, and solutions. Indigenous peoples across the world
Speaker 1: are the world's first climate scientists. We were understanding ecosystems
Speaker 1: and how they worked, long before Columbus set foot in
Speaker 1: the America's long before there was such a thing as
Speaker 1: a climate scientist. Jade Bigey is the director of the
Speaker 1: Indian Collectives Climate Justice Campaign and is Navajo and Tasuki
Speaker 1: Pueblo of New Mexico. Much of her work centers around
Speaker 1: including Indigenous voices and climate discussions and finding opportunities to
Speaker 1: employ indigenous solutions and the fight for our future. I
Speaker 1: want to see climate policy informed by our people, for
Speaker 1: our people. We spoke with Jade as she was attending
Speaker 1: the United Nations Conference of the Parties or the cop
Speaker 1: where thousands of people were gathering to discuss climate solutions.
Speaker 1: Native and Indigenous practices can be injected into the climate
Speaker 1: fight to solve previously unsolvable problems. Jade, would you consider
Speaker 1: yourself to be a nature lover? I do consider myself
Speaker 1: a nature lover. Check my Airbnb profile. I am like
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'd rather be in the rural forests and
Speaker 1: the places with no Wi Fi. And yeah, definitely. I'm
Speaker 1: a horse writer at heart. I'm a backcountry hiker and skier.
Speaker 1: That's what I do during my off time to find
Speaker 1: joy I grew up playing in the snow and in
Speaker 1: the mountains with all the aspens. That's where I feel
Speaker 1: almost myself. And I think we become more centered, more grounded,
Speaker 1: and really can connect with who we truly are when
Speaker 1: we're in these spaces. So I'm seeing you light up
Speaker 1: when you're talking about nature and you mentioned being in
Speaker 1: it makes you feel more like who you truly are.
Speaker 1: Tell me more about your identity and how that impacts
Speaker 1: and inspires the work that you do. Yeah, I believe
Speaker 1: my tribal identity and my cultural identity is ninety nine
Speaker 1: point nine percent of why I do what I do. Definitely,
Speaker 1: growing up traditionally so connected to my language and ceremony
Speaker 1: has also been a really huge factor. And a lot
Speaker 1: of people I've worked with from indigenous communities, whether that's
Speaker 1: indigenous peoples in the Amazon or indigenous peoples in the Arctic,
Speaker 1: if they lose their territories, if they have a river
Speaker 1: that is poisoned by oil or by any other type
Speaker 1: of pollution, that is a part of their identity. You
Speaker 1: can't have the health of community and the health of
Speaker 1: nature be separate. And something I would love to see
Speaker 1: in climate policy that would honor indigenous rights and indigenous cosmology.
Speaker 1: Is the rights of nature something that we're seeing playing
Speaker 1: out in places like New Zealand where rivers have rights
Speaker 1: just like humans have rights. Jade, you gave us an
Speaker 1: example from New Zealand. What do you think US climate
Speaker 1: policy might look like when it better reflects and incorporates
Speaker 1: native values? Where should it start? I think it'd be
Speaker 1: great to see climate policy reflect our demands for land back. Generally,
Speaker 1: when we're talking about land back as organizing groups, as
Speaker 1: grassroots organizations, as frontline communities, we're not talking about making
Speaker 1: people go back to wherever they came from, but it's
Speaker 1: really about having sovereignty and having self determination over lands
Speaker 1: that were stolen from us, and reconnecting and revitalizing culture
Speaker 1: and land practices so that we can bring the environment
Speaker 1: the climate back into a balance. The ability to have
Speaker 1: self determination it covers being able to practice our cosmologies
Speaker 1: and to practice our ways of life and have the
Speaker 1: right to be able to do so in the future.
Speaker 1: Talking about, you know, sovereignty of native lands, and you're
Speaker 1: talking about the landback movement. Last month we talked with
Speaker 1: doctor Adrian Keane and she mentioned that there's indigenous knowledge
Speaker 1: that could provide a pathway forward, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to the impending climate catastrophe. Can you talk through what
Speaker 1: some of that knowledge is. Yeah, So, indigenous peoples across
Speaker 1: the world are the world's first climate scientists. We were
Speaker 1: understanding ecosystems and how they worked long before Columbus set foot,
Speaker 1: you know in the America's or long before you know,
Speaker 1: there was such a thing as a climate scientist. And
Speaker 1: so we have this intrinsic and this is you know,
Speaker 1: yes for people like from my community, but also indigenous
Speaker 1: peoples all over the world. We have this really old
Speaker 1: knowledge about how to keep ecosystems in balance, like whether
Speaker 1: that's knowing how to have safe birds of woods or
Speaker 1: forests to ensure that there's a reduced risk of wildfire,
Speaker 1: whether that's knowing how to create safety barriers on coasts
Speaker 1: to protect people from erosion and floods. There's all kinds
Speaker 1: of knowledge that exists out there, and those are real
Speaker 1: climate solutions and they need to be invested in, but
Speaker 1: they also need to be acknowledged in places like here
Speaker 1: at the cop where thousands of people are about to
Speaker 1: get here and discuss, you know, climate solutions Indigenous knowledge
Speaker 1: really needs to be upheld in these types of spaces,
Speaker 1: and also at the level of local and city climate
Speaker 1: management and building. When cities and towns build climate plans
Speaker 1: or adaptation plans, they need to consider local indigenous knowledge
Speaker 1: and really make relationships with those people to inform those plans.
Speaker 1: Do you have any examples of where indigenous solutions are
Speaker 1: in place to help fight climate change currently? Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: so many indigenous led solutions. One I'll speak about is
Speaker 1: a local regenerative economy based on the farming of kelp
Speaker 1: and the fishing practices in southeast Alaska and the Kelp
Speaker 1: is is a many fold two, three, fourfold solution where
Speaker 1: it cleans the water, it removes carbon dioxide, it becomes
Speaker 1: a fuel, it can become a food source. They're building
Speaker 1: an economy out of that, so creating a local product
Speaker 1: that they can sell with the community and provide food
Speaker 1: to the community. And then with the fishing, they're doing
Speaker 1: something that they've always done and turning that into a
Speaker 1: program where they feed their elders and providing jobs and
Speaker 1: so it's this whole circular model, but it's addressing all
Speaker 1: the things food and equity, job and security, climate change.
Speaker 1: So that is being led by native conservancy and building
Speaker 1: land trusts and reclaiming land. And so those are the
Speaker 1: types of models that we want to empower and invest
Speaker 1: in and support. And I'll shout out my team at
Speaker 1: Expedition Studios where my dear friend and colleague and I
Speaker 1: are working on a film called Salec Yellow, which translate
Speaker 1: to Sultan Sky. And this film is about lithium mining
Speaker 1: in ChIL And so this is another climate story about
Speaker 1: how as we're building the renewable economy here in the
Speaker 1: global North and all over the world, all of those
Speaker 1: solar panels, all of those wind turbines, electric cars, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1: They need lithium, They need minerals for the batteries. But
Speaker 1: where where does that come from? Indigenous lands? So again
Speaker 1: we're creating this other, you know, this other dynamic of
Speaker 1: consuming and taking too much than what a community or
Speaker 1: the earth can handle. And how do we deal with that.
Speaker 1: Part of the problem of pushing for policy change is
Speaker 1: that there's a tendency to try to solve many nuanced
Speaker 1: issues with one federal bill. Is there a strategy for
Speaker 1: addressing the ways in which different communities are affected by
Speaker 1: climate change with a more tailored approach. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think a lot of climate and environmental justice dis groups
Speaker 1: are already saying one says does not fit all. With
Speaker 1: my role in the wee Jack, the White House Environmental
Speaker 1: Justice Advisory Council, I'm actually fairly impressed by the diversity
Speaker 1: of people on that Advisory Council to do. To do
Speaker 1: just this, we have to pressure within the EPA, within
Speaker 1: you know, the White House Climate Team, the Army Corps
Speaker 1: of Engineers, etc. Make who make these decisions that impact
Speaker 1: our community. We have to create indicators for them to
Speaker 1: get the capacity to understand the nuances of all these
Speaker 1: different communities. And it's not just with you know, solutions building,
Speaker 1: it's also about investment. And my team at end In
Speaker 1: Collective we wrote a memo on this this past summer.
Speaker 1: We knew that the infrastructure package was coming down the line,
Speaker 1: and one big capacity gap in small communities or rural
Speaker 1: communities and tribes for example, is capacity to distribute funding equitably.
Speaker 1: And so something that we're doing now is advising these groups,
Speaker 1: these agencies to also invest in capacity so that when
Speaker 1: these communities receive all this funding, it can flow and
Speaker 1: not just flow in one zone, but flow across the
Speaker 1: community in an equitable way. So I'm pretty passionate about race,
Speaker 1: and I think that's come through on the show were
Speaker 1: the one episode. But I think one thing that I
Speaker 1: don't think about is often is issues of environmental justice.
Speaker 1: How does the fight for racial equity intersect with with
Speaker 1: your work to craft climate policy. Racial equity is climate justice,
Speaker 1: and climate justice is racial equities. So climate policy could
Speaker 1: include practical ideas of decolonization, taking into account things like truth, reconciliation,
Speaker 1: and reparations. You know, those types of practices on the
Speaker 1: city council level, at the state level, at the national
Speaker 1: level really do have impacts that you know, are really
Speaker 1: connected to like racial equity. You know, when we are
Speaker 1: able to claim land back or reclaim our lands. In
Speaker 1: some cases, yes, maybe there is like conservation models happening
Speaker 1: where we're protecting land or protecting sacred sites, but in
Speaker 1: other cases developing land so that we can welcome our
Speaker 1: relatives who have had to move because of climate impacts.
Speaker 1: We're really thinking about where we're headed and these are
Speaker 1: the realities, and we're really trying to prepare for all
Speaker 1: of the challenges. You're on the Environmental Justice Advisory council,
Speaker 1: So you're actually in there doing the work. What's it
Speaker 1: like working within that political system knowing that it's a
Speaker 1: system that in the past has been oppressive towards Native
Speaker 1: and Indigenous folks? What does that look like working in
Speaker 1: that system in order to actually create the type of
Speaker 1: change that you need. Working in this system, it's been challenging,
Speaker 1: it's been frustrating, but all with the nuance that we've
Speaker 1: made a lot of progress. Deb Halland is the Secretary
Speaker 1: of Interior and managing department that oversees the BIA, the
Speaker 1: Bureau of Indian Affairs, and never before has an Indigenous
Speaker 1: person held that role. Now we have an Indigenous person
Speaker 1: making decisions about a department that really impacts our people
Speaker 1: and our tribes. So I feel a lot more comfortable
Speaker 1: working within a system that has made that type of progress.
Speaker 1: I'm also seeing grassroots leaders such as myself in these
Speaker 1: types of roles, advising, giving guidance, helping these agencies navigate
Speaker 1: really the changing landscape when we're talking about what equity means,
Speaker 1: when we talk about what justice means, and really from
Speaker 1: a foundational place of wanting to dismantle white supremacy within
Speaker 1: these systems, I also see grassroots leaders holding roles in
Speaker 1: the Department of Indian Energy. For example, my clan sister
Speaker 1: Hala John's as Salt of the Earth organizer from Navajo Nation,
Speaker 1: who has worked so hard for her people to transition
Speaker 1: from coal energy to renewable energy, is now leading that department.
Speaker 1: So I think it's all to say that it's always
Speaker 1: going to be frustrating working within these systems until we've
Speaker 1: really changed them, until we've achieved our big movement goals
Speaker 1: of systems change. But the progress that we've made, especially
Speaker 1: considering the last four years, it's really huge, and I
Speaker 1: urge people all the time that I work with, that
Speaker 1: I speak to, that follow me on social media to
Speaker 1: not take that for granted, knowing that in the next
Speaker 1: four years we could have a different president who has
Speaker 1: a different agenda. How do you plan to keep this
Speaker 1: agenda moving forward despite ever changing political landscape, Ronald, This
Speaker 1: is a fast and nuanced question. We won the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty election by a hair you know, it was so close,
Speaker 1: and so we need to be working in better relationship
Speaker 1: now and through next year in the lead up to
Speaker 1: the next presidential election. If we continue to play this
Speaker 1: kind of you know, woke police against each other and
Speaker 1: shut each other down because we're not, you know, the
Speaker 1: perfect model of equity or justice, then we're really going
Speaker 1: to continue to stay divided and see our progressive movements
Speaker 1: separate and diverge. You know what I'm not seeing is
Speaker 1: the other side separate in the way that we are,
Speaker 1: and that really concerns me. Where can listeners learn more
Speaker 1: about the causes that you're focused on? Are there films, books,
Speaker 1: anything like that? Yeah? Yeah, so our handles are all
Speaker 1: the same on all the platforms. And DAN Collective and
Speaker 1: then my entire undergrad I was watching documentaries and learning
Speaker 1: about people. A lot of these stories were about the environment,
Speaker 1: and one documentary that impacted me the most, I think
Speaker 1: to move into this direction was the documentary Chasing Ice,
Speaker 1: which is about the rate at which glaciers are melting
Speaker 1: and that advocates or climate justice. The film is by
Speaker 1: jeff Orlaski, who I can now call a really dearer
Speaker 1: and close friend and colleague. Jay, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being with us today. We learned so much. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's an honor to speak with you. Ja Biggay is
Speaker 1: the Indian Collectives Climate Justice Campaign director She is Navajo
Speaker 1: and Tasuki Pueblo, has a Master of Arts degree in
Speaker 1: environmental leadership and as part of President Biden's White House
Speaker 1: Environmental Justice Advisory Council. You can find a link to
Speaker 1: the Indian Collective and to Jade's film sell E Cielo
Speaker 1: in our show notes. Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank,
Speaker 1: researched by David Jah, booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing
Speaker 1: producer is Sasha Matthias, and our executive producer is Mio LaBelle.
Speaker 1: I'm Ronald Young Jr. Thanks for listening.