WEBVTT - Radiohead’s Ed O’Brien 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.236 --> 0:00:22.556 Ed O'Brien spent the last few decades crafting some of 0:00:22.596 --> 0:00:26.316 the most textured, expansive guitar and modern rock music, from 0:00:26.356 --> 0:00:28.916 the fragmented beauty of kid A and Amnesiac, to the 0:00:28.956 --> 0:00:31.796 experimental layers of King of Limbs, even back to the 0:00:31.796 --> 0:00:35.596 more straight ahead sounds on Okay Computer. Ed has expanded 0:00:35.716 --> 0:00:38.756 the guitar's palette, but over the last few years he's 0:00:38.756 --> 0:00:41.756 been exploring a universe parallel to Radiohead, one where he's 0:00:41.796 --> 0:00:44.636 at the center. Starting with Earth in twenty twenty, which 0:00:44.636 --> 0:00:47.276 he released under the moniker eo b and now with 0:00:47.356 --> 0:00:51.436 Blue Morpho under his birth name At O'Brien. As album's 0:00:51.436 --> 0:00:54.476 title hints, Ed found himself in a transformative period of 0:00:54.476 --> 0:00:57.436 the last six years, and not unlike the striking Butterfly 0:00:57.556 --> 0:01:00.596 the albums named after, came out the other side a new, 0:01:00.716 --> 0:01:04.156 perhaps even better person, with a gorgeous album to show 0:01:04.196 --> 0:01:07.476 for it. On today's Broken Record, Ed takes us through 0:01:07.476 --> 0:01:10.316 some of the journey of making this album, starting in solitude, 0:01:10.356 --> 0:01:13.636 playing guitar figures just for his own edification, through writing 0:01:13.636 --> 0:01:16.276 and eventually connecting with a crew of talented friends to 0:01:16.316 --> 0:01:19.676 bring the songs to life. Ed also discussed this evolution 0:01:19.756 --> 0:01:22.276 of his playing over time, the impact Brazil's had on 0:01:22.316 --> 0:01:25.196 a musically in which producer he wishes Radiohead had worked 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:32.036 with in the nineties. This is broken record, real musicians, 0:01:32.276 --> 0:01:40.236 real conversations. Here's my interview with Ed O'Brien from Amazon 0:01:40.356 --> 0:01:44.516 Music Studio one twenty six. So I should have this 0:01:44.596 --> 0:01:45.396 test before you go. 0:01:45.756 --> 0:02:02.156 It's all good. I like that. Cool. Who's the that's 0:02:02.316 --> 0:02:05.876 the Burundi black Wow? Have you heard that? 0:02:06.036 --> 0:02:06.116 No? 0:02:06.716 --> 0:02:07.316 Sounds great? 0:02:07.356 --> 0:02:07.596 Cool? 0:02:08.076 --> 0:02:09.076 I put this together. 0:02:09.236 --> 0:02:17.356 It's the original comes from here. 0:02:23.876 --> 0:02:34.676 Wow, wow, wow, the Burundi drummers, Bruni drummers. 0:02:34.756 --> 0:02:34.956 Yeah. 0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:37.316 And then you know about this point. 0:02:37.196 --> 0:02:41.436 Malcolm, you know, Malcolm McLaren, Malcolm McLaren and Adam and 0:02:41.476 --> 0:02:42.196 the ants. 0:02:42.036 --> 0:02:42.796 Adam and the ants. 0:02:43.716 --> 0:02:47.276 Yeah, it's that's That's what McLaren said to Adam and 0:02:47.276 --> 0:02:50.716 the answer you got to take the Burundi bee and 0:02:50.796 --> 0:02:52.356 make put pop music on the top. 0:02:52.436 --> 0:02:55.516 And always wondered if Gary Glitter, Yeah, I mean did 0:02:55.556 --> 0:02:56.156 he get it from that? 0:02:56.196 --> 0:03:02.716 Because this is fucking glam this oh hey rough can roll. 0:03:02.796 --> 0:03:03.996 Yeah. 0:03:03.116 --> 0:03:08.156 Yeah, it's different, but it's it's not sampled and it's 0:03:08.196 --> 0:03:14.396 not white the bee, but even the hey similar tribal. 0:03:14.956 --> 0:03:16.636 Yeah, it's crazy. 0:03:17.076 --> 0:03:20.476 He's of course persona non grata in the UK. Yeah, 0:03:20.756 --> 0:03:25.156 discussing great records, that's but the sound, right, sound is great, unbelievable. 0:03:25.236 --> 0:03:27.116 I thought was really corny growing up, and I was 0:03:27.156 --> 0:03:30.516 going to like, you know, whatever games or whatever and 0:03:30.516 --> 0:03:31.156 they would play that. 0:03:31.236 --> 0:03:35.556 But can you truck swede black suedead or black skinnhead skinhead? 0:03:35.636 --> 0:03:38.276 That's obviously he was listening to. 0:03:38.316 --> 0:03:40.956 Well, there's something going on there across pollination with Gary 0:03:40.956 --> 0:03:41.756 Glitter and. 0:03:41.636 --> 0:03:43.596 I think he did. I think he just sampled it. 0:03:44.476 --> 0:03:47.956 He just sampled it. My oh did he probably? Pretty 0:03:48.276 --> 0:03:52.596 of course is wrong. Yeah, and Johnny Mitchell did it too. 0:03:52.596 --> 0:03:54.716 Did you ever hear that? No? Was she sampled that? 0:03:54.916 --> 0:03:55.756 She she just tooked? 0:03:55.836 --> 0:03:59.636 Yeah, she sampled it, actually Gary Glitter, not Gary Glitter. Burundi, 0:03:59.676 --> 0:04:05.156 the Burundi did what was that? He's in a summer line? 0:04:05.196 --> 0:04:06.996 She did it on on jungle line. 0:04:07.436 --> 0:04:07.836 Wow? 0:04:15.556 --> 0:04:21.836 So wal sound true? 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:27.516 Why so beautiful? It's really why this album is why. 0:04:29.436 --> 0:04:31.396 Through ibs, I need. 0:04:31.236 --> 0:04:33.636 To listen to this record. Yeah you'll you'll dig it 0:04:33.716 --> 0:04:36.596 here sing the summer loans. Yeah, I don't know, I 0:04:36.716 --> 0:04:38.836 know of it, but I don't know it's. 0:04:38.596 --> 0:04:40.516 After I didn't really know it too well until recently. 0:04:41.076 --> 0:04:41.876 It's one of those records. 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:42.876 There's a lot of records like that. 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:45.956 Again, I love that, you know, I try and I try, 0:04:45.996 --> 0:04:47.356 and I try, and I don't know, and then all 0:04:47.356 --> 0:04:49.756 of a sudden it, yeah, it opens up, opens up. 0:04:49.836 --> 0:04:50.036 Yeah. 0:04:50.116 --> 0:04:52.516 Right, it's amazing the gift of the music. 0:04:52.716 --> 0:04:55.996 Yeah, which that happened for I was reading a bit 0:04:56.116 --> 0:04:57.876 you that happened for you a couple of times. 0:04:57.916 --> 0:04:59.796 Right, Yes, Zepplin didn't really even get. 0:04:59.756 --> 0:05:04.076 It until I remember we were it was that we 0:05:04.076 --> 0:05:07.316 were touring the Bends and I was living on my own. 0:05:07.396 --> 0:05:09.596 Came back for Christmas, finished that and I never heard 0:05:09.676 --> 0:05:12.556 let Zeppelin. And I had a girlfriend and she lived 0:05:12.596 --> 0:05:16.236 in Monmouth. I went to see her, and Monmouth is 0:05:16.316 --> 0:05:19.796 the studio where you know, Robert Plant used to live 0:05:19.796 --> 0:05:23.236 in Monmouth, and I think Zepplin recorded there, and I suddenly, 0:05:23.276 --> 0:05:26.076 suddenly Zepplin opened up because we were so tribal growing up. 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:30.276 I was in like in the alternative goth Smith's and 0:05:30.956 --> 0:05:32.956 you know, in the eighties, the kids who were listening 0:05:32.956 --> 0:05:37.356 to Zepplin were all in tenim jackets, leather jackets, and 0:05:37.516 --> 0:05:40.476 you know, rockers and it was so you just didn't 0:05:40.556 --> 0:05:42.596 cross those lines, which was such a shame. And then 0:05:43.036 --> 0:05:48.356 Zeppelin opened up and I still I mean I love Zeppelin. 0:05:48.596 --> 0:05:50.996 I mean, you know, I understand Zeppelin in a way. 0:05:51.036 --> 0:05:53.836 I feel it like the spiritual element of Zeppelin, Like, 0:05:54.476 --> 0:05:58.676 I mean, is there a better big track ever than Kashmir? 0:05:59.636 --> 0:06:03.036 I mean, that's like that's a spiritual like that's a 0:06:03.516 --> 0:06:06.596 that's like a that is like a Himalayan track in 0:06:06.676 --> 0:06:11.836 terms of you know, a peek of musical and sonic power. 0:06:12.116 --> 0:06:16.596 Yeah, you know, it's why I I re listened to 0:06:16.636 --> 0:06:18.556 that recently. I hadn't heard it in a long time, 0:06:18.996 --> 0:06:20.556 and it's just really bugged out. 0:06:20.676 --> 0:06:22.436 You know, that live version that they did when they 0:06:22.436 --> 0:06:24.716 played that one off gig the Alma Urtican, they did 0:06:24.716 --> 0:06:27.596 it the in London and two thousand and seven. Yeah, 0:06:28.036 --> 0:06:31.796 it's fucking unbelievable. I dare I say. I think it's 0:06:32.236 --> 0:06:34.836 it's got a vibe, it's more powerful than the record. Really, 0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:41.636 it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable, you know, and you know, just yeah, 0:06:41.836 --> 0:06:43.436 what what a track. 0:06:43.476 --> 0:06:46.236 It's like, it's insane. I have to listen to that. Yeah, 0:06:46.276 --> 0:06:48.596 it's really good. I kind of avoided. I want. 0:06:48.756 --> 0:06:50.316 You know, I was young at that time, but I 0:06:50.516 --> 0:06:52.396 was like, man, maybe I can just like gets some money. 0:06:52.116 --> 0:06:53.716 And get out there and go see that or something. 0:06:53.716 --> 0:06:55.436 It was so it was insanely. 0:06:55.636 --> 0:06:57.876 I had a friend out here who won somehow won 0:06:57.956 --> 0:07:00.716 tickets through the radio and went like when a full 0:07:00.796 --> 0:07:03.236 trip that got flown out and why I was so jealous. 0:07:03.276 --> 0:07:06.556 I stopped talking on my things. 0:07:06.316 --> 0:07:09.316 And I wanted to go, but I didn't pull I 0:07:09.316 --> 0:07:12.036 didn't play the radio head card, which I probably should 0:07:12.076 --> 0:07:15.076 have in hindsights, was kind of reluctant to do that, 0:07:15.116 --> 0:07:18.116 and I should have done that. Yeah, maybe i'd still 0:07:18.196 --> 0:07:20.996 not got a ticket to know that that would have 0:07:21.036 --> 0:07:21.596 done anything. 0:07:22.436 --> 0:07:24.756 Well you know, I'm sure, well you know, and I 0:07:24.796 --> 0:07:27.876 wondered too to what degree and maybe you'll know more? 0:07:28.476 --> 0:07:31.756 And I didn't realize that the UK, because in America 0:07:31.876 --> 0:07:36.236 was definitely that segmented if you were into alternative music 0:07:36.356 --> 0:07:39.596 or punk or anything like that, or even like. 0:07:39.636 --> 0:07:42.436 Hip hop, like it was, it was hard to cross. 0:07:42.316 --> 0:07:45.516 Over into like things that felt more commercial or but 0:07:45.556 --> 0:07:47.156 I want to cut the other way too, Like for 0:07:47.236 --> 0:07:50.356 those guys if they were like, because the fuck about. 0:07:50.156 --> 0:07:54.356 Radio, I want it I'm sure it does. And I mean, 0:07:54.396 --> 0:07:56.756 I think, what's what I love about now? You know, 0:07:57.236 --> 0:07:59.836 a lot of people kind of it's very easy in 0:07:59.916 --> 0:08:02.676 the current age to be a naysayer about the culture 0:08:02.716 --> 0:08:04.796 of music and what's happening now. But I see in 0:08:04.836 --> 0:08:07.756 my kids and what I love is there's no such 0:08:07.796 --> 0:08:09.996 thing as a guilty pleasure. We grew up with this 0:08:10.036 --> 0:08:12.436 concept of a guilty pleasure, like I remember having to 0:08:12.596 --> 0:08:17.196 hide stuff yep, that I loved. But I remember when 0:08:18.116 --> 0:08:21.396 I was at university when Madonna Vogue came out and 0:08:21.476 --> 0:08:24.116 I was doing my finals and I was into the 0:08:24.116 --> 0:08:28.116 Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Pixies and the sort of semi 0:08:28.236 --> 0:08:31.316 hit the fact that I loved that song. But what's 0:08:31.396 --> 0:08:34.076 great now is that kids suggest like I like that, 0:08:34.276 --> 0:08:37.156 like that there's nothing that doesn't seem to be those divisions. 0:08:37.756 --> 0:08:41.556 There's really not, and there's a ton of benefit to that. 0:08:42.116 --> 0:08:43.596 D I think there's some drawbacks. 0:08:43.636 --> 0:08:46.996 What are they? That's interesting? What do you think the 0:08:47.116 --> 0:08:48.196 drawback to me is? 0:08:49.196 --> 0:08:51.876 You know, I thought about this recently when when like 0:08:51.956 --> 0:08:55.716 when recent Quentin Tarantino got in trouble for like shitting 0:08:55.716 --> 0:08:58.556 on a couple of actors recently, or was it Paul Dano, 0:08:58.676 --> 0:09:01.236 Paul Dana. Yeah, yeah, that was so cruol. It was cruel, 0:09:01.476 --> 0:09:03.356 but you know, a part of me I started thinking 0:09:03.396 --> 0:09:07.316 about it. Yeah, irrespective of what you think about Paul Dano, 0:09:07.156 --> 0:09:10.436 who I think was great and and there will be blood, 0:09:10.716 --> 0:09:12.636 but it's sort of like, you know, that's the thing 0:09:12.636 --> 0:09:13.836 about like Miles Davis. 0:09:14.156 --> 0:09:18.796 He used to do that. People just got people are. 0:09:18.636 --> 0:09:21.996 Fucking ground, You're frenzy, you know. And then I started 0:09:22.036 --> 0:09:23.036 thinking about. 0:09:23.396 --> 0:09:25.756 Do you think people are too nice? Maybe people, I mean, 0:09:25.796 --> 0:09:26.756 I don't want to see that. 0:09:27.076 --> 0:09:31.636 But sometimes the job is to is to make it 0:09:31.676 --> 0:09:33.116 is to make it. It's to take a stand and 0:09:33.156 --> 0:09:35.276 to say how you feel, and to say how you feel. 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:36.076 Yeah, no, I get you. 0:09:36.076 --> 0:09:38.876 We were talking about this yesterday about music publications. When 0:09:38.916 --> 0:09:41.076 we grew up, we used to have these publications, these 0:09:41.156 --> 0:09:44.316 music mags called Enemy and Meloy Maker and Enemy was 0:09:44.476 --> 0:09:47.356 ruthless and they hated Radiyhead in the early day, so 0:09:47.356 --> 0:09:50.036 they called us a lily livid excuse of a rock band. 0:09:50.756 --> 0:09:54.036 Un quoting, but you know, you read that review and 0:09:54.076 --> 0:09:55.956 it had an impact and it was like it sharpened 0:09:55.996 --> 0:09:59.636 your acting a bit. You go like fuck, okay, fuck 0:09:59.716 --> 0:10:02.796 you all we're going showy. So yeah, there was definitely 0:10:02.996 --> 0:10:05.636 a little bit of nihlinis or just speaking the truth. 0:10:05.636 --> 0:10:09.556 You're right, I think a lot of people are. It's interesting. 0:10:09.556 --> 0:10:12.956 It's finding that balance. I think you can. I think 0:10:13.036 --> 0:10:13.596 you can what. 0:10:13.676 --> 0:10:15.996 I found for me, I like to speak the truth, 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:19.116 but I like speaking truth with kindness because you know 0:10:19.996 --> 0:10:22.196 you can also, you know, like Miles as Miles, he 0:10:22.236 --> 0:10:25.436 grew up in a toughest, toughest ear right, so he 0:10:25.516 --> 0:10:28.556 has no it's like only the fittest survive, you know, 0:10:28.596 --> 0:10:30.836 in this and there's something to that, but also you 0:10:30.876 --> 0:10:33.516 can lose people along the way, and you know, it's like, 0:10:34.316 --> 0:10:38.236 I'm really into sport, particularly soccer, and the generation of 0:10:38.876 --> 0:10:42.516 soccer players now, they're not like thirty years ago, which 0:10:42.556 --> 0:10:45.036 you had that fittest survive and it was tough. The 0:10:45.396 --> 0:10:49.756 great managers very much like I think they follow people 0:10:49.916 --> 0:10:53.396 like your man Phil Jackson who coached the Bulls, right, 0:10:54.156 --> 0:11:02.556 they know how to mass sorry, but they they're more 0:11:02.676 --> 0:11:05.036 enlightened and they go, Okay, that guy needs that, that 0:11:05.076 --> 0:11:08.116 girl needs that, you know, and and I kind of 0:11:08.196 --> 0:11:10.556 quite like that. I like, I like that we've kind 0:11:10.556 --> 0:11:13.276 of moved on a little bit more, but having said that, 0:11:13.596 --> 0:11:17.636 you know, it was funny, it was, but you can 0:11:17.676 --> 0:11:19.836 bring people down, and I listen, I'm one of those 0:11:19.876 --> 0:11:22.036 people as well. I need you know, I grew up 0:11:22.076 --> 0:11:24.396 in a tough love era, but actually I thrive more 0:11:24.956 --> 0:11:27.356 when I'm given a bit more support. And in my 0:11:27.396 --> 0:11:30.156 own music, I need that. I need, I need to 0:11:30.196 --> 0:11:31.036 know I can do it. 0:11:32.396 --> 0:11:34.956 That I'm the same way, the same way, so I 0:11:35.316 --> 0:11:39.636 struggle as well. Yeah, and I think the trade offs 0:11:39.636 --> 0:11:42.396 are largely probably worth it, you know, but I do, 0:11:42.516 --> 0:11:44.676 I do think about that. I'm like, I just probably 0:11:45.396 --> 0:11:47.436 sometimes you know, like the gate the idea of there 0:11:47.556 --> 0:11:49.956 being no gatekeepers now sometimes is a. 0:11:49.916 --> 0:11:53.596 Little like, you know, we're Gonnam again. Yeah, oh my god. 0:11:53.596 --> 0:11:54.836 I mean maybe some things that you get through that 0:11:54.876 --> 0:11:57.196 should have. But I mean, thank god he was there, 0:11:57.276 --> 0:12:00.396 thank god, you're right, You're right, we do. Yeah, it's true, 0:12:01.196 --> 0:12:01.836 mo Astin. 0:12:02.236 --> 0:12:06.036 It's like old guys, all those guys, Chris Blackwell, Island Records, 0:12:06.836 --> 0:12:08.956 all these people like real music music. 0:12:09.476 --> 0:12:13.796 Yeah, yeah, I kind of missed that. Yeah, we'll be 0:12:13.836 --> 0:12:15.516 back with more from Ed O'Brien. 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:22.636 Speaking of kind of harsh critics, I guess I didn't 0:12:22.676 --> 0:12:26.876 realize until just today that John Peele wasn't really I 0:12:26.876 --> 0:12:28.196 was going to ask you about John Peel, but then 0:12:28.436 --> 0:12:30.636 I found out he wasn't so supportive. 0:12:30.836 --> 0:12:34.156 No, we weren't his kind of band. But then I 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:40.156 remember a story when we played Glastonbury in eight ninety seven. 0:12:40.516 --> 0:12:43.596 We headlined Glastonbury on the Saturday night, which was sort 0:12:43.636 --> 0:12:46.116 of is on the Okay Compute right the start the 0:12:46.196 --> 0:12:49.796 Okay Compute, and he traditionally did the He did like 0:12:49.956 --> 0:12:54.356 the TV and radio that went out, and one of 0:12:54.396 --> 0:12:58.956 the DJs, Mary Anne Hobbs, who's sort of always been 0:12:58.996 --> 0:13:02.436 a champion of the band, she and him were watching 0:13:02.476 --> 0:13:07.076 that performance and he said he said afterwards to her, 0:13:07.436 --> 0:13:10.236 he said, oh, I think I need to revisit Radiohead. 0:13:10.756 --> 0:13:12.756 And we were really keen when kid A came out. 0:13:13.036 --> 0:13:14.916 We were like, please can Peel play? And I think 0:13:14.956 --> 0:13:17.836 Peel did. We never got to do a visit to 0:13:17.876 --> 0:13:20.196 peel Acres, which we never did a Peel session. You 0:13:20.196 --> 0:13:24.436 didn't do a session, no, because I think we would 0:13:24.516 --> 0:13:27.476 have subsequently, but he died. But I think that we 0:13:27.996 --> 0:13:30.516 were just not you know. The first album was a 0:13:30.556 --> 0:13:34.796 bit confusing for a lot of people, not the least us, 0:13:35.356 --> 0:13:37.876 and we were on a major label. He always gravitated 0:13:37.876 --> 0:13:41.596 towards independent labels, and we had a monster hitting creeps, 0:13:41.596 --> 0:13:43.956 so that kind of were immediately no not having that. 0:13:44.396 --> 0:13:46.756 So it took us a lot. It was just I. 0:13:46.756 --> 0:13:48.676 Think we just kept on knocking at the door and 0:13:49.236 --> 0:13:51.596 you know, but we could have got in there. 0:13:51.636 --> 0:13:53.676 But yeah, but that's okay. 0:13:54.236 --> 0:13:57.836 Was the first record confusing because it was such a 0:13:57.916 --> 0:13:59.516 hit out the gate and that was confusing. 0:13:59.756 --> 0:14:00.876 No, it was confusing. 0:14:00.996 --> 0:14:03.076 Well, there was that. I mean that was a blessing 0:14:03.236 --> 0:14:05.556 obviously in hindsight, because I think otherwise we would have 0:14:05.596 --> 0:14:09.396 been dropped. It was we just didn't know what we 0:14:09.396 --> 0:14:11.716 were doing. That kind of the level of commitment and 0:14:11.756 --> 0:14:16.556 what it took to the level of seriousness that it 0:14:16.676 --> 0:14:20.116 required to to do what we were doing. And I think, 0:14:20.556 --> 0:14:23.396 I think inevitably, I mean, some some bands come straight 0:14:23.516 --> 0:14:26.316 some artists come straight out of the box, right, but 0:14:26.396 --> 0:14:28.636 we were one that we were still trying to It's 0:14:28.716 --> 0:14:31.476 trying to find our voice collectively and also Tom lyrically, 0:14:31.476 --> 0:14:33.636 I think it was trying to find his voice. So 0:14:33.676 --> 0:14:35.756 we we hadn't we hadn't got our ship together, and 0:14:35.876 --> 0:14:38.156 it's just a those things can take it just to 0:14:38.156 --> 0:14:40.556 take a bit of time, and and you need people 0:14:40.636 --> 0:14:44.116 to sort of knock you down to to find find 0:14:44.156 --> 0:14:46.076 the way as well. You need to you need to 0:14:46.076 --> 0:14:48.276 find a robustness. And you need to look at a 0:14:48.276 --> 0:14:50.276 few photo shoots you've done and go like, we look 0:14:50.316 --> 0:14:52.716 really crap, and you go, okay, we need to we 0:14:52.716 --> 0:14:54.556 need to hear black you know all that. 0:14:54.516 --> 0:14:56.076 Stuff because you're just saying yes to things. 0:14:56.236 --> 0:14:58.196 Well yeah, and you don't know what you're doing, and 0:14:58.276 --> 0:15:00.996 so you you you make these mistakes very publicly, and 0:15:01.676 --> 0:15:04.116 as long as you learn from them and evolve from them, 0:15:04.116 --> 0:15:06.916 that's fine. It's the you know, so I think we 0:15:06.956 --> 0:15:09.676 did and we just worked really hard. It made us 0:15:09.716 --> 0:15:11.956 knuckle down even more so the second album comes along, 0:15:11.996 --> 0:15:13.956 it's like okay, because people said we were one the 0:15:14.036 --> 0:15:18.556 hit Wonders and in a way that album is it 0:15:18.636 --> 0:15:21.276 kind of is that. And we were like, well, right, 0:15:21.476 --> 0:15:23.596 every single song on this next album is going to 0:15:23.676 --> 0:15:26.596 be it's going to be a tune. Yeah, And it was, 0:15:27.276 --> 0:15:29.316 thank you, well it was you know. 0:15:29.756 --> 0:15:31.796 You know, you're talking about kind of finding yourselves as 0:15:31.796 --> 0:15:36.436 a band. I'm curious about finding yourself as a guitar player. 0:15:36.916 --> 0:15:39.596 Leading up to talking about your new record, If you 0:15:39.636 --> 0:15:42.516 had to look back at the various eras of your 0:15:43.156 --> 0:15:47.236 Plane from the beginning when you first pick it up 0:15:47.876 --> 0:15:51.196 to now, can do you see distinct eras in your plane? 0:15:51.316 --> 0:15:52.036 Yeah, definitely. 0:15:52.076 --> 0:15:55.316 I mean the first album is really it's very simple. 0:15:55.516 --> 0:15:57.556 I mean, we had a we had a we had 0:15:57.556 --> 0:16:01.836 a if you like, a formula which was quiet versus 0:16:01.836 --> 0:16:05.396 and loud choruses. So the loud choruses meant that all 0:16:05.436 --> 0:16:07.996 three of us, Tom, Johnny and myself would stamp on 0:16:08.036 --> 0:16:13.676 distortion pedals and the verses would be minimal. And also 0:16:13.836 --> 0:16:15.716 I think in a way that it was very much 0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:18.516 it was in a way supporting my role in that 0:16:18.636 --> 0:16:20.516 was very simple. I didn't play leads, so it was 0:16:20.516 --> 0:16:23.076 supporting Johnny in that respect, and it was that was 0:16:23.116 --> 0:16:25.876 the thing that I always for me, it was a 0:16:25.876 --> 0:16:28.356 little bit one dimensional, you know, in terms of my 0:16:28.396 --> 0:16:31.556 own playing, and it was that's the kind of music 0:16:31.596 --> 0:16:33.156 we were doing then. I mean, there's a track on 0:16:33.196 --> 0:16:37.116 their Blowout which I played some got a sound and 0:16:37.156 --> 0:16:39.396 that's when I first sort of got a crazy sound 0:16:39.476 --> 0:16:41.876 or a sound that was different and sort of riffed 0:16:41.876 --> 0:16:44.996 on that, and I remember it was on It was 0:16:45.036 --> 0:16:47.356 really on the second album. It started to open up 0:16:47.356 --> 0:16:50.396 with me. We were sort of more interested in you know, 0:16:50.476 --> 0:16:53.876 you get bored of things, so that that guitar distorted 0:16:53.916 --> 0:16:56.916 onslaught became something we used less and less. 0:16:56.996 --> 0:16:59.596 We still used it, but it. 0:16:59.396 --> 0:17:03.276 Wasn't as it was just we were more interested in 0:17:03.276 --> 0:17:05.956 textures and sounds, and that for me was really I 0:17:05.956 --> 0:17:10.796 remember we worked on Planet Telex and those guitar sounds 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:12.876 were all things that I programmed. I had, you know, 0:17:12.916 --> 0:17:16.196 I had a RAQ unit, a cool rack unit, and 0:17:16.796 --> 0:17:19.636 so I was really into that. And then you know, 0:17:19.756 --> 0:17:23.236 Okay Computer, for me, it really flowered and it What 0:17:23.276 --> 0:17:27.036 was interesting about that was that because when you're playing clubs, 0:17:28.316 --> 0:17:32.516 that kind of quiet verse, loud chorus thing with distorted 0:17:32.516 --> 0:17:33.836 guitars works really well. 0:17:33.956 --> 0:17:35.116 Yeah you know, bang, it's in. 0:17:35.076 --> 0:17:37.156 Your face where you start getting more successull you and 0:17:37.156 --> 0:17:40.196 playing bigger venues. And I remember, by the time we're 0:17:40.236 --> 0:17:44.796 touring ninety six, between the Benz and Okay Computer, I mean, 0:17:44.836 --> 0:17:47.316 we did these shows in Canada that were essentially our 0:17:47.356 --> 0:17:50.476 first arena shows, and these songs that kind of thing 0:17:50.556 --> 0:17:53.316 doesn't work so well, and we were sound checking stuff 0:17:53.356 --> 0:17:56.436 off Okay Computer, like let Down, and suddenly, you know, 0:17:56.476 --> 0:18:00.676 a delayed clean, delayed guitar sounded so beautiful in these 0:18:00.716 --> 0:18:05.556 bigger spaces. So I think the sound developed as the 0:18:05.636 --> 0:18:10.076 venues changed. And because we always wrote to Didney material, 0:18:10.436 --> 0:18:12.756 that was always the point, Like sound checks, just to 0:18:12.796 --> 0:18:15.756 alleviate the boredom of the road and playing the same songs. 0:18:16.276 --> 0:18:18.916 We would sound check new songs and we would also 0:18:18.956 --> 0:18:21.396 play them in the set, so as the venues got bigger, 0:18:21.596 --> 0:18:25.596 we could use the acoustics of the room. And for me, 0:18:25.876 --> 0:18:29.156 that's when it really you know, I think for me, okay, 0:18:29.236 --> 0:18:32.396 computer at the moment, I really felt like as a guitarist, 0:18:32.516 --> 0:18:35.596 I was sort of finding my stride. I think it 0:18:35.676 --> 0:18:38.916 was very obvious what Johnny did from in a very 0:18:38.916 --> 0:18:43.236 early stage of this incredible lead, this powerful lead thing, 0:18:43.276 --> 0:18:45.516 and you know, he was able to do stuff that 0:18:45.556 --> 0:18:46.036 I couldn't. 0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:48.956 I couldn't do that, stuff that wasn't in me. I didn't. 0:18:49.156 --> 0:18:51.556 I just didn't do it. But as we changed, like 0:18:51.636 --> 0:18:53.716 I became just sort of obsessed with sound, and it 0:18:53.836 --> 0:18:56.236 just sort of developed from there, and and you know, 0:18:56.236 --> 0:19:01.476 and nikid A was another leap, and then you know, yeah, 0:19:01.516 --> 0:19:03.476 it was it's been great. It's it was great sort 0:19:03.476 --> 0:19:06.316 of laboratory in The great thing about Radiohead was it was, 0:19:06.716 --> 0:19:07.636 you know, the. 0:19:07.596 --> 0:19:12.596 Weirder, the sounds, more encouragement you got, yeah, from from 0:19:12.636 --> 0:19:14.596 from from everybody, you know. 0:19:14.636 --> 0:19:16.276 And it was always trying to I mean lots of 0:19:16.276 --> 0:19:18.036 the weird sounds never got in, but it was trying 0:19:18.076 --> 0:19:21.316 to get this stuff sounded. I mean, I I've always 0:19:21.356 --> 0:19:24.356 loved sound. I I you know, you realize what makes 0:19:24.356 --> 0:19:28.396 you tick and sound is something that I Sound for 0:19:28.436 --> 0:19:32.236 me is very visual, you know, and when I connect 0:19:32.236 --> 0:19:36.556 with something, I connect sonically, but I connect it very visually. 0:19:37.356 --> 0:19:42.916 And that's what Yeah, that's what That's what floats my boat. 0:19:42.956 --> 0:19:46.116 Really did you always know that was? Was it always 0:19:46.156 --> 0:19:47.196 clear to you? That sound? 0:19:47.636 --> 0:19:49.636 It's interesting, Yeah, looking back, I mean like, why did 0:19:49.636 --> 0:19:50.876 I want to plick up the guitar? I mean, I 0:19:50.876 --> 0:19:53.716 heard the Beatles. I've you know, I've had amazing music 0:19:53.756 --> 0:19:57.116 exposed in the seventies through Top of the Pops, this British, 0:19:57.156 --> 0:20:00.236 this TV show, it's amazing weekly TV show. But it 0:20:00.276 --> 0:20:03.396 wasn't until I heard the Police and it was specifically 0:20:03.396 --> 0:20:06.436 the track Walking on the Moon by the and Andy 0:20:06.476 --> 0:20:08.716 Summon's guitar playing and the sound of the track has 0:20:08.716 --> 0:20:11.076 got this all, this reverbed and lay and it was suddenly. 0:20:11.996 --> 0:20:15.396 What I loved about it was that track sounded as 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:19.196 if it was recorded on the moon. How I imagined 0:20:19.196 --> 0:20:21.996 it would be. I could feel like the moon, and 0:20:22.476 --> 0:20:24.076 so I think. 0:20:23.956 --> 0:20:26.356 It had that little Yeah. 0:20:26.476 --> 0:20:26.716 Yeah. 0:20:26.756 --> 0:20:30.276 They did the Roland Space Echo famously, you know, and 0:20:30.316 --> 0:20:35.316 also the the Echoplex. Stuart Copeland put put delay on 0:20:35.356 --> 0:20:39.116 his drums the Space Echo believe, and Andy Summers had 0:20:39.156 --> 0:20:40.276 an his drums. 0:20:40.436 --> 0:20:41.836 Yeah. I didn't know that, Yeah he did. 0:20:41.876 --> 0:20:43.916 He went there's a great I seen some lovely footage. 0:20:43.956 --> 0:20:46.996 They went to Manny's in New York and bought load again. 0:20:47.116 --> 0:20:50.156 He bought a Space Eco and you know Stui Copman's 0:20:50.196 --> 0:20:52.156 drumming with a Space Eco on it. Man, it was 0:20:52.236 --> 0:20:54.996