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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Ed O'Brien spent the last few decades crafting some of

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Speaker 2: the most textured, expansive guitar and modern rock music, from

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Speaker 2: the fragmented beauty of kid A and Amnesiac, to the

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Speaker 2: experimental layers of King of Limbs, even back to the

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Speaker 2: more straight ahead sounds on Okay Computer. Ed has expanded

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Speaker 2: the guitar's palette, but over the last few years he's

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Speaker 2: been exploring a universe parallel to Radiohead, one where he's

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Speaker 2: at the center. Starting with Earth in twenty twenty, which

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Speaker 2: he released under the moniker eo b and now with

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Speaker 2: Blue Morpho under his birth name At O'Brien. As album's

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Speaker 2: title hints, Ed found himself in a transformative period of

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Speaker 2: the last six years, and not unlike the striking Butterfly

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Speaker 2: the albums named after, came out the other side a new,

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Speaker 2: perhaps even better person, with a gorgeous album to show

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Speaker 2: for it. On today's Broken Record, Ed takes us through

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Speaker 2: some of the journey of making this album, starting in solitude,

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Speaker 2: playing guitar figures just for his own edification, through writing

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Speaker 2: and eventually connecting with a crew of talented friends to

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Speaker 2: bring the songs to life. Ed also discussed this evolution

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Speaker 2: of his playing over time, the impact Brazil's had on

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Speaker 2: a musically in which producer he wishes Radiohead had worked

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Speaker 2: with in the nineties. This is broken record, real musicians,

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Speaker 2: real conversations. Here's my interview with Ed O'Brien from Amazon

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Speaker 2: Music Studio one twenty six. So I should have this

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Speaker 2: test before you go.

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Speaker 1: It's all good. I like that. Cool. Who's the that's

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Speaker 1: the Burundi black Wow? Have you heard that?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Sounds great?

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Speaker 2: Cool?

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Speaker 1: I put this together.

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Speaker 2: It's the original comes from here.

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Speaker 4: Wow, wow, wow, the Burundi drummers, Bruni drummers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then you know about this point.

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Speaker 5: Malcolm, you know, Malcolm McLaren, Malcolm McLaren and Adam and

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Speaker 5: the ants.

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Speaker 1: Adam and the ants.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's that's That's what McLaren said to Adam and

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Speaker 5: the answer you got to take the Burundi bee and

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Speaker 5: make put pop music on the top.

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Speaker 2: And always wondered if Gary Glitter, Yeah, I mean did

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Speaker 2: he get it from that?

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Speaker 5: Because this is fucking glam this oh hey rough can roll.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's different, but it's it's not sampled and it's

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Speaker 6: not white the bee, but even the hey similar tribal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy.

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Speaker 5: He's of course persona non grata in the UK. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: discussing great records, that's but the sound, right, sound is great, unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: I thought was really corny growing up, and I was

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Speaker 2: going to like, you know, whatever games or whatever and

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Speaker 2: they would play that.

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Speaker 5: But can you truck swede black suedead or black skinnhead skinhead?

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Speaker 1: That's obviously he was listening to.

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Speaker 5: Well, there's something going on there across pollination with Gary

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Speaker 5: Glitter and.

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Speaker 1: I think he did. I think he just sampled it.

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Speaker 1: He just sampled it. My oh did he probably? Pretty

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Speaker 1: of course is wrong. Yeah, and Johnny Mitchell did it too.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever hear that? No? Was she sampled that?

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Speaker 1: She she just tooked?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she sampled it, actually Gary Glitter, not Gary Glitter. Burundi,

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Speaker 2: the Burundi did what was that? He's in a summer line?

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Speaker 2: She did it on on jungle line.

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 6: So wal sound true?

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Speaker 1: Why so beautiful? It's really why this album is why.

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Speaker 4: Through ibs, I need.

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Speaker 5: To listen to this record. Yeah you'll you'll dig it

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Speaker 5: here sing the summer loans. Yeah, I don't know, I

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Speaker 5: know of it, but I don't know it's.

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Speaker 2: After I didn't really know it too well until recently.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those records.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of records like that.

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Speaker 2: Again, I love that, you know, I try and I try,

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Speaker 2: and I try, and I don't know, and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden it, yeah, it opens up, opens up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's amazing the gift of the music.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which that happened for I was reading a bit

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Speaker 2: you that happened for you a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, Zepplin didn't really even get.

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Speaker 5: It until I remember we were it was that we

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Speaker 5: were touring the Bends and I was living on my own.

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Speaker 5: Came back for Christmas, finished that and I never heard

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Speaker 5: let Zeppelin. And I had a girlfriend and she lived

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Speaker 5: in Monmouth. I went to see her, and Monmouth is

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Speaker 5: the studio where you know, Robert Plant used to live

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Speaker 5: in Monmouth, and I think Zepplin recorded there, and I suddenly,

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Speaker 5: suddenly Zepplin opened up because we were so tribal growing up.

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Speaker 5: I was in like in the alternative goth Smith's and

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Speaker 5: you know, in the eighties, the kids who were listening

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Speaker 5: to Zepplin were all in tenim jackets, leather jackets, and

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Speaker 5: you know, rockers and it was so you just didn't

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Speaker 5: cross those lines, which was such a shame. And then

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Speaker 5: Zeppelin opened up and I still I mean I love Zeppelin.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I understand Zeppelin in a way.

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Speaker 5: I feel it like the spiritual element of Zeppelin, Like,

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Speaker 5: I mean, is there a better big track ever than Kashmir?

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's like that's a spiritual like that's a

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Speaker 5: that's like a that is like a Himalayan track in

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Speaker 5: terms of you know, a peek of musical and sonic power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's why I I re listened to

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Speaker 2: that recently. I hadn't heard it in a long time,

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Speaker 2: and it's just really bugged out.

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Speaker 5: You know, that live version that they did when they

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Speaker 5: played that one off gig the Alma Urtican, they did

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Speaker 5: it the in London and two thousand and seven. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's fucking unbelievable. I dare I say. I think it's

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Speaker 5: it's got a vibe, it's more powerful than the record. Really,

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Speaker 5: it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable, you know, and you know, just yeah,

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Speaker 5: what what a track.

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Speaker 1: It's like, it's insane. I have to listen to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really good. I kind of avoided. I want.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was young at that time, but I

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Speaker 2: was like, man, maybe I can just like gets some money.

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Speaker 1: And get out there and go see that or something.

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Speaker 1: It was so it was insanely.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend out here who won somehow won

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Speaker 2: tickets through the radio and went like when a full

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Speaker 2: trip that got flown out and why I was so jealous.

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Speaker 1: I stopped talking on my things.

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Speaker 5: And I wanted to go, but I didn't pull I

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Speaker 5: didn't play the radio head card, which I probably should

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Speaker 5: have in hindsights, was kind of reluctant to do that,

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Speaker 5: and I should have done that. Yeah, maybe i'd still

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Speaker 5: not got a ticket to know that that would have

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Speaker 5: done anything.

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Speaker 2: Well you know, I'm sure, well you know, and I

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Speaker 2: wondered too to what degree and maybe you'll know more?

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Speaker 2: And I didn't realize that the UK, because in America

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Speaker 2: was definitely that segmented if you were into alternative music

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Speaker 2: or punk or anything like that, or even like.

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Speaker 1: Hip hop, like it was, it was hard to cross.

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Speaker 2: Over into like things that felt more commercial or but

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Speaker 2: I want to cut the other way too, Like for

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Speaker 2: those guys if they were like, because the fuck about.

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Speaker 5: Radio, I want it I'm sure it does. And I mean,

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Speaker 5: I think, what's what I love about now? You know,

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Speaker 5: a lot of people kind of it's very easy in

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Speaker 5: the current age to be a naysayer about the culture

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Speaker 5: of music and what's happening now. But I see in

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Speaker 5: my kids and what I love is there's no such

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Speaker 5: thing as a guilty pleasure. We grew up with this

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Speaker 5: concept of a guilty pleasure, like I remember having to

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Speaker 5: hide stuff yep, that I loved. But I remember when

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Speaker 5: I was at university when Madonna Vogue came out and

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Speaker 5: I was doing my finals and I was into the

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Speaker 5: Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Pixies and the sort of semi

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Speaker 5: hit the fact that I loved that song. But what's

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Speaker 5: great now is that kids suggest like I like that,

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Speaker 5: like that there's nothing that doesn't seem to be those divisions.

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Speaker 2: There's really not, and there's a ton of benefit to that.

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Speaker 2: D I think there's some drawbacks.

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Speaker 1: What are they? That's interesting? What do you think the

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Speaker 1: drawback to me is?

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Speaker 2: You know, I thought about this recently when when like

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Speaker 2: when recent Quentin Tarantino got in trouble for like shitting

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Speaker 2: on a couple of actors recently, or was it Paul Dano,

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Speaker 2: Paul Dana. Yeah, yeah, that was so cruol. It was cruel,

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Speaker 2: but you know, a part of me I started thinking

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Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, irrespective of what you think about Paul Dano,

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Speaker 2: who I think was great and and there will be blood,

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Speaker 2: but it's sort of like, you know, that's the thing

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Speaker 2: about like Miles Davis.

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Speaker 1: He used to do that. People just got people are.

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Speaker 2: Fucking ground, You're frenzy, you know. And then I started

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Speaker 2: thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Do you think people are too nice? Maybe people, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to see that.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes the job is to is to make it

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Speaker 2: is to make it. It's to take a stand and

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Speaker 2: to say how you feel, and to say how you feel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I get you.

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Speaker 5: We were talking about this yesterday about music publications. When

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Speaker 5: we grew up, we used to have these publications, these

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Speaker 5: music mags called Enemy and Meloy Maker and Enemy was

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Speaker 5: ruthless and they hated Radiyhead in the early day, so

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Speaker 5: they called us a lily livid excuse of a rock band.

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Speaker 5: Un quoting, but you know, you read that review and

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Speaker 5: it had an impact and it was like it sharpened

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Speaker 5: your acting a bit. You go like fuck, okay, fuck

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Speaker 5: you all we're going showy. So yeah, there was definitely

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Speaker 5: a little bit of nihlinis or just speaking the truth.

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Speaker 5: You're right, I think a lot of people are. It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's finding that balance. I think you can. I think

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Speaker 1: you can what.

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Speaker 5: I found for me, I like to speak the truth,

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Speaker 5: but I like speaking truth with kindness because you know

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Speaker 5: you can also, you know, like Miles as Miles, he

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Speaker 5: grew up in a toughest, toughest ear right, so he

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Speaker 5: has no it's like only the fittest survive, you know,

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Speaker 5: in this and there's something to that, but also you

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Speaker 5: can lose people along the way, and you know, it's like,

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Speaker 5: I'm really into sport, particularly soccer, and the generation of

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Speaker 5: soccer players now, they're not like thirty years ago, which

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Speaker 5: you had that fittest survive and it was tough. The

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Speaker 5: great managers very much like I think they follow people

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Speaker 5: like your man Phil Jackson who coached the Bulls, right,

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Speaker 5: they know how to mass sorry, but they they're more

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Speaker 5: enlightened and they go, Okay, that guy needs that, that

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Speaker 5: girl needs that, you know, and and I kind of

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Speaker 5: quite like that. I like, I like that we've kind

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Speaker 5: of moved on a little bit more, but having said that,

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Speaker 5: you know, it was funny, it was, but you can

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Speaker 5: bring people down, and I listen, I'm one of those

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Speaker 5: people as well. I need you know, I grew up

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Speaker 5: in a tough love era, but actually I thrive more

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Speaker 5: when I'm given a bit more support. And in my

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Speaker 5: own music, I need that. I need, I need to

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Speaker 5: know I can do it.

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Speaker 2: That I'm the same way, the same way, so I

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Speaker 2: struggle as well. Yeah, and I think the trade offs

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Speaker 2: are largely probably worth it, you know, but I do,

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Speaker 2: I do think about that. I'm like, I just probably

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Speaker 2: sometimes you know, like the gate the idea of there

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Speaker 2: being no gatekeepers now sometimes is a.

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Speaker 1: Little like, you know, we're Gonnam again. Yeah, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe some things that you get through that

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Speaker 1: should have. But I mean, thank god he was there,

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Speaker 1: thank god, you're right, You're right, we do. Yeah, it's true,

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Speaker 1: mo Astin.

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Speaker 5: It's like old guys, all those guys, Chris Blackwell, Island Records,

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Speaker 5: all these people like real music music.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I kind of missed that. Yeah, we'll be

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Speaker 1: back with more from Ed O'Brien.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of kind of harsh critics, I guess I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize until just today that John Peele wasn't really I

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Speaker 2: was going to ask you about John Peel, but then

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Speaker 2: I found out he wasn't so supportive.

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Speaker 5: No, we weren't his kind of band. But then I

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Speaker 5: remember a story when we played Glastonbury in eight ninety seven.

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Speaker 5: We headlined Glastonbury on the Saturday night, which was sort

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Speaker 5: of is on the Okay Compute right the start the

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Speaker 5: Okay Compute, and he traditionally did the He did like

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Speaker 5: the TV and radio that went out, and one of

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Speaker 5: the DJs, Mary Anne Hobbs, who's sort of always been

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Speaker 5: a champion of the band, she and him were watching

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Speaker 5: that performance and he said he said afterwards to her,

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Speaker 5: he said, oh, I think I need to revisit Radiohead.

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Speaker 5: And we were really keen when kid A came out.

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Speaker 5: We were like, please can Peel play? And I think

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Speaker 5: Peel did. We never got to do a visit to

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Speaker 5: peel Acres, which we never did a Peel session. You

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Speaker 5: didn't do a session, no, because I think we would

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Speaker 5: have subsequently, but he died. But I think that we

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Speaker 5: were just not you know. The first album was a

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Speaker 5: bit confusing for a lot of people, not the least us,

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Speaker 5: and we were on a major label. He always gravitated

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Speaker 5: towards independent labels, and we had a monster hitting creeps,

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Speaker 5: so that kind of were immediately no not having that.

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Speaker 1: So it took us a lot. It was just I.

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Speaker 5: Think we just kept on knocking at the door and

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Speaker 5: you know, but we could have got in there.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but that's okay.

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Speaker 2: Was the first record confusing because it was such a

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Speaker 2: hit out the gate and that was confusing.

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Speaker 1: No, it was confusing.

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Speaker 5: Well, there was that. I mean that was a blessing

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Speaker 5: obviously in hindsight, because I think otherwise we would have

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Speaker 5: been dropped. It was we just didn't know what we

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Speaker 5: were doing. That kind of the level of commitment and

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Speaker 5: what it took to the level of seriousness that it

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Speaker 5: required to to do what we were doing. And I think,

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Speaker 5: I think inevitably, I mean, some some bands come straight

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Speaker 5: some artists come straight out of the box, right, but

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Speaker 5: we were one that we were still trying to It's

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Speaker 5: trying to find our voice collectively and also Tom lyrically,

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Speaker 5: I think it was trying to find his voice. So

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Speaker 5: we we hadn't we hadn't got our ship together, and

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Speaker 5: it's just a those things can take it just to

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Speaker 5: take a bit of time, and and you need people

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Speaker 5: to sort of knock you down to to find find

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Speaker 5: the way as well. You need to you need to

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Speaker 5: find a robustness. And you need to look at a

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Speaker 5: few photo shoots you've done and go like, we look

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Speaker 5: really crap, and you go, okay, we need to we

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Speaker 5: need to hear black you know all that.

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Speaker 1: Stuff because you're just saying yes to things.

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Speaker 5: Well yeah, and you don't know what you're doing, and

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Speaker 5: so you you you make these mistakes very publicly, and

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Speaker 5: as long as you learn from them and evolve from them,

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Speaker 5: that's fine. It's the you know, so I think we

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Speaker 5: did and we just worked really hard. It made us

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Speaker 5: knuckle down even more so the second album comes along,

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Speaker 5: it's like okay, because people said we were one the

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Speaker 5: hit Wonders and in a way that album is it

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Speaker 5: kind of is that. And we were like, well, right,

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Speaker 5: every single song on this next album is going to

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Speaker 5: be it's going to be a tune. Yeah, And it was,

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Speaker 5: thank you, well it was you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're talking about kind of finding yourselves as

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Speaker 2: a band. I'm curious about finding yourself as a guitar player.

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Speaker 2: Leading up to talking about your new record, If you

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Speaker 2: had to look back at the various eras of your

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Speaker 2: Plane from the beginning when you first pick it up

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Speaker 2: to now, can do you see distinct eras in your plane?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 5: I mean the first album is really it's very simple.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we had a we had a we had

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Speaker 5: a if you like, a formula which was quiet versus

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Speaker 5: and loud choruses. So the loud choruses meant that all

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Speaker 5: three of us, Tom, Johnny and myself would stamp on

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Speaker 5: distortion pedals and the verses would be minimal. And also

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Speaker 5: I think in a way that it was very much

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Speaker 5: it was in a way supporting my role in that

309
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Speaker 5: was very simple. I didn't play leads, so it was

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Speaker 5: supporting Johnny in that respect, and it was that was

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Speaker 5: the thing that I always for me, it was a

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Speaker 5: little bit one dimensional, you know, in terms of my

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Speaker 5: own playing, and it was that's the kind of music

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Speaker 5: we were doing then. I mean, there's a track on

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Speaker 5: their Blowout which I played some got a sound and

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Speaker 5: that's when I first sort of got a crazy sound

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Speaker 5: or a sound that was different and sort of riffed

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Speaker 5: on that, and I remember it was on It was

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Speaker 5: really on the second album. It started to open up

320
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Speaker 5: with me. We were sort of more interested in you know,

321
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Speaker 5: you get bored of things, so that that guitar distorted

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Speaker 5: onslaught became something we used less and less.

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Speaker 1: We still used it, but it.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't as it was just we were more interested in

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Speaker 5: textures and sounds, and that for me was really I

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Speaker 5: remember we worked on Planet Telex and those guitar sounds

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Speaker 5: were all things that I programmed. I had, you know,

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Speaker 5: I had a RAQ unit, a cool rack unit, and

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Speaker 5: so I was really into that. And then you know,

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Speaker 5: Okay Computer, for me, it really flowered and it What

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Speaker 5: was interesting about that was that because when you're playing clubs,

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Speaker 5: that kind of quiet verse, loud chorus thing with distorted

333
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Speaker 5: guitars works really well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you know, bang, it's in.

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Speaker 5: Your face where you start getting more successull you and

336
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Speaker 5: playing bigger venues. And I remember, by the time we're

337
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Speaker 5: touring ninety six, between the Benz and Okay Computer, I mean,

338
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Speaker 5: we did these shows in Canada that were essentially our

339
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Speaker 5: first arena shows, and these songs that kind of thing

340
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Speaker 5: doesn't work so well, and we were sound checking stuff

341
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Speaker 5: off Okay Computer, like let Down, and suddenly, you know,

342
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Speaker 5: a delayed clean, delayed guitar sounded so beautiful in these

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Speaker 5: bigger spaces. So I think the sound developed as the

344
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Speaker 5: venues changed. And because we always wrote to Didney material,

345
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Speaker 5: that was always the point, Like sound checks, just to

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Speaker 5: alleviate the boredom of the road and playing the same songs.

347
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Speaker 5: We would sound check new songs and we would also

348
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Speaker 5: play them in the set, so as the venues got bigger,

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Speaker 5: we could use the acoustics of the room. And for me,

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Speaker 5: that's when it really you know, I think for me, okay,

351
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Speaker 5: computer at the moment, I really felt like as a guitarist,

352
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Speaker 5: I was sort of finding my stride. I think it

353
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Speaker 5: was very obvious what Johnny did from in a very

354
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Speaker 5: early stage of this incredible lead, this powerful lead thing,

355
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Speaker 5: and you know, he was able to do stuff that

356
00:18:45,556 --> 00:18:46,036
Speaker 5: I couldn't.

357
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Speaker 1: I couldn't do that, stuff that wasn't in me. I didn't.

358
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Speaker 5: I just didn't do it. But as we changed, like

359
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Speaker 5: I became just sort of obsessed with sound, and it

360
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Speaker 5: just sort of developed from there, and and you know,

361
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Speaker 5: and nikid A was another leap, and then you know, yeah,

362
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Speaker 5: it was it's been great. It's it was great sort

363
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Speaker 5: of laboratory in The great thing about Radiohead was it was,

364
00:19:06,716 --> 00:19:07,636
Speaker 5: you know, the.

365
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Speaker 1: Weirder, the sounds, more encouragement you got, yeah, from from

366
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Speaker 1: from from everybody, you know.

367
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Speaker 5: And it was always trying to I mean lots of

368
00:19:16,276 --> 00:19:18,036
Speaker 5: the weird sounds never got in, but it was trying

369
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Speaker 5: to get this stuff sounded. I mean, I I've always

370
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Speaker 5: loved sound. I I you know, you realize what makes

371
00:19:24,356 --> 00:19:28,396
Speaker 5: you tick and sound is something that I Sound for

372
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Speaker 5: me is very visual, you know, and when I connect

373
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Speaker 5: with something, I connect sonically, but I connect it very visually.

374
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Speaker 5: And that's what Yeah, that's what That's what floats my boat.

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Speaker 1: Really did you always know that was? Was it always

376
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Speaker 1: clear to you? That sound?

377
00:19:47,636 --> 00:19:49,636
Speaker 5: It's interesting, Yeah, looking back, I mean like, why did

378
00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:50,876
Speaker 5: I want to plick up the guitar? I mean, I

379
00:19:50,876 --> 00:19:53,716
Speaker 5: heard the Beatles. I've you know, I've had amazing music

380
00:19:53,756 --> 00:19:57,116
Speaker 5: exposed in the seventies through Top of the Pops, this British,

381
00:19:57,156 --> 00:20:00,236
Speaker 5: this TV show, it's amazing weekly TV show. But it

382
00:20:00,276 --> 00:20:03,396
Speaker 5: wasn't until I heard the Police and it was specifically

383
00:20:03,396 --> 00:20:06,436
Speaker 5: the track Walking on the Moon by the and Andy

384
00:20:06,476 --> 00:20:08,716
Speaker 5: Summon's guitar playing and the sound of the track has

385
00:20:08,716 --> 00:20:11,076
Speaker 5: got this all, this reverbed and lay and it was suddenly.

386
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Speaker 5: What I loved about it was that track sounded as

387
00:20:15,436 --> 00:20:19,196
Speaker 5: if it was recorded on the moon. How I imagined

388
00:20:19,196 --> 00:20:21,996
Speaker 5: it would be. I could feel like the moon, and

389
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Speaker 5: so I think.

390
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Speaker 1: It had that little Yeah.

391
00:20:26,476 --> 00:20:26,716
Speaker 3: Yeah.

392
00:20:26,756 --> 00:20:30,276
Speaker 5: They did the Roland Space Echo famously, you know, and

393
00:20:30,316 --> 00:20:35,316
Speaker 5: also the the Echoplex. Stuart Copeland put put delay on

394
00:20:35,356 --> 00:20:39,116
Speaker 5: his drums the Space Echo believe, and Andy Summers had

395
00:20:39,156 --> 00:20:40,276
Speaker 5: an his drums.

396
00:20:40,436 --> 00:20:41,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't know that, Yeah he did.

397
00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:43,916
Speaker 5: He went there's a great I seen some lovely footage.

398
00:20:43,956 --> 00:20:46,996
Speaker 5: They went to Manny's in New York and bought load again.

399
00:20:47,116 --> 00:20:50,156
Speaker 5: He bought a Space Eco and you know Stui Copman's

400
00:20:50,196 --> 00:20:52,156
Speaker 5: drumming with a Space Eco on it. Man, it was

401
00:20:52,236 --> 00:20:54,996
Speaker 5: like killer. That's wild, Yeah, really wild. And he play

402
00:20:55,156 --> 00:20:56,516
Speaker 5: in live, so he.

403
00:20:56,556 --> 00:20:59,076
Speaker 1: Must have played differently. Yeah, that's right.

404
00:20:59,116 --> 00:21:01,316
Speaker 5: But he had the monitor, you'd have it with him

405
00:21:01,356 --> 00:21:04,276
Speaker 5: so in the studio, so he was actually the monitors

406
00:21:04,276 --> 00:21:07,756
Speaker 5: it was coming through. So it's just extraordinary stuff. Yeah,

407
00:21:07,796 --> 00:21:10,316
Speaker 5: And of course they would got that through the reggae

408
00:21:10,356 --> 00:21:13,036
Speaker 5: and the dub influence, you know, the space could being

409
00:21:13,076 --> 00:21:15,516
Speaker 5: a really important part of the you know, dub and

410
00:21:15,556 --> 00:21:16,396
Speaker 5: reggae Arsenal.

411
00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:18,556
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it was.

412
00:21:18,716 --> 00:21:20,556
Speaker 5: It was Doze and then and then I was very

413
00:21:20,636 --> 00:21:23,396
Speaker 5: lucky because I grew up in an era of post

414
00:21:23,476 --> 00:21:30,196
Speaker 5: punk which was really so creative, and you had players

415
00:21:30,236 --> 00:21:33,236
Speaker 5: like John McGeoch who was this He played with you

416
00:21:33,276 --> 00:21:36,676
Speaker 5: know Magazine and Susie, you know, Susan the Banshie is great,

417
00:21:36,716 --> 00:21:39,516
Speaker 5: you know Juju all the spell band and stuff like his.

418
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Speaker 1: He was next level.

419
00:21:41,796 --> 00:21:43,676
Speaker 5: And then he went on to play with Leiden and

420
00:21:43,756 --> 00:21:46,116
Speaker 5: Pill and and all that stuff, and then.

421
00:21:46,156 --> 00:21:48,596
Speaker 1: We played Republic. Yeah, he I think he.

422
00:21:48,596 --> 00:21:53,596
Speaker 5: Joined he was in a band after after Susan Banchi's

423
00:21:53,636 --> 00:21:56,196
Speaker 5: he went to he formed a band with Richard Johnson

424
00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:59,996
Speaker 5: Jobs and from the Skids called The Armory Show not great.

425
00:22:00,436 --> 00:22:03,596
Speaker 5: And then but then he joined Yeah, but then he

426
00:22:03,676 --> 00:22:06,196
Speaker 5: joined an incarnation of Pill and he did there was

427
00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:09,836
Speaker 5: that album is It with Happy on it and really good.

428
00:22:10,156 --> 00:22:13,716
Speaker 1: It's like the really good. Yes it has it's like

429
00:22:13,796 --> 00:22:17,116
Speaker 1: the is Everybody Happy?

430
00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:18,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, he played on that.

431
00:22:18,996 --> 00:22:21,596
Speaker 5: Yeah, he played on that, and it's mcgi it's like

432
00:22:21,796 --> 00:22:24,996
Speaker 5: classic mcgeal playing did.

433
00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:26,916
Speaker 1: You ever get to did you ever? Susie and Susan.

434
00:22:26,996 --> 00:22:29,516
Speaker 2: The band Shoes is a there's such a mystery to me,

435
00:22:29,596 --> 00:22:31,316
Speaker 2: but I love them. Yeah, did you ever get to meet?

436
00:22:31,516 --> 00:22:32,956
Speaker 2: And he passed away, but do you ever get to

437
00:22:34,156 --> 00:22:34,436
Speaker 2: But I.

438
00:22:34,356 --> 00:22:37,236
Speaker 5: Think Susie Tom said that when we did the shows,

439
00:22:37,596 --> 00:22:40,836
Speaker 5: the radio shows last year, Susie, Susie came to the

440
00:22:40,836 --> 00:22:45,676
Speaker 5: London show. I think she's friends with Tom. She's just

441
00:22:45,716 --> 00:22:47,436
Speaker 5: the queen, the queen of punk.

442
00:22:47,516 --> 00:22:49,476
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, one of my favorites.

443
00:22:49,556 --> 00:22:49,756
Speaker 4: Yeah.

444
00:22:49,796 --> 00:22:51,756
Speaker 5: No, and she and she did that had a beautiful

445
00:22:51,796 --> 00:22:54,636
Speaker 5: you know she you know, graduated from the school of

446
00:22:54,636 --> 00:22:57,716
Speaker 5: punk and went on this incredible, this incredible journey.

447
00:22:57,796 --> 00:23:01,116
Speaker 1: So yeah, they again deeply creative. Yeah.

448
00:23:01,196 --> 00:23:03,996
Speaker 2: So back to so sound turns And when you say

449
00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:04,676
Speaker 2: sound is what.

450
00:23:05,596 --> 00:23:07,796
Speaker 1: Does it for you? It's it's more tech. It's our

451
00:23:07,876 --> 00:23:10,356
Speaker 1: music sound, but it's more it's the texture. Yeah, the

452
00:23:10,396 --> 00:23:11,876
Speaker 1: texture and the texture of it.

453
00:23:11,916 --> 00:23:14,156
Speaker 5: And I'm really I don't like I mean, one of

454
00:23:14,196 --> 00:23:17,356
Speaker 5: the things on my album was I don't like I'm

455
00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:20,796
Speaker 5: always trying to undigitize it. I don't like it when

456
00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:23,316
Speaker 5: it's too clean. My particular on this record I had

457
00:23:23,316 --> 00:23:26,716
Speaker 5: this I was really sort of kind of obsessed with

458
00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:29,676
Speaker 5: that era of recording from about sixty eight sixty nine

459
00:23:29,676 --> 00:23:33,716
Speaker 5: to seventy three seventy four, and particularly for me, what

460
00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:36,436
Speaker 5: characterized that was you had the move from sort of analogue,

461
00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:39,916
Speaker 5: but you were getting transistors in the amps and some

462
00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:43,676
Speaker 5: of the components which gave you clearer top end. So

463
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:46,676
Speaker 5: I'm thinking in terms of recordings, So Miles in a

464
00:23:46,716 --> 00:23:50,076
Speaker 5: silent way, you know, Minnie Riperton, any of the you know,

465
00:23:50,236 --> 00:23:53,316
Speaker 5: Charles Stepney stuff. You know we were with earth Winder

466
00:23:53,356 --> 00:23:57,036
Speaker 5: and Fire yesterday, were you yeah, oh yeah, they were

467
00:23:57,036 --> 00:23:57,796
Speaker 5: here yesterday.

468
00:23:58,236 --> 00:23:58,476
Speaker 1: Wow.

469
00:23:59,236 --> 00:23:59,476
Speaker 4: Wow.

470
00:24:00,636 --> 00:24:04,356
Speaker 2: I played them the demo that Charles Stepney did of

471
00:24:04,996 --> 00:24:06,316
Speaker 2: That's the Way of the World, the Way of the World,

472
00:24:06,316 --> 00:24:07,716
Speaker 2: That's where the world art like it was a Charles

473
00:24:07,716 --> 00:24:11,396
Speaker 2: Stepney and I played there like kind of like they

474
00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:12,996
Speaker 2: hadn't heard You're not way back then.

475
00:24:13,156 --> 00:24:13,436
Speaker 7: Wow.

476
00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:15,876
Speaker 2: Philip Bailey was like, I think you have like a

477
00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:17,756
Speaker 2: like a Latin kind of flavor to it. And then

478
00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:19,596
Speaker 2: like I put her eyes like, yeah, that's the thing

479
00:24:19,636 --> 00:24:21,236
Speaker 2: I heard way back before we cut.

480
00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:23,876
Speaker 8: It was it was well, they were like I mean,

481
00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:27,836
Speaker 8: I mean, earth Wind and Father's There's there's a lot

482
00:24:27,876 --> 00:24:30,316
Speaker 8: to say they were the greatest group ever, you know,

483
00:24:30,156 --> 00:24:31,796
Speaker 8: and I know a lot of people say, like the

484
00:24:31,836 --> 00:24:34,396
Speaker 8: Beatles were, but I would I would hit back with

485
00:24:34,436 --> 00:24:36,636
Speaker 8: Earth Wind and Fire and Slim the Family Stone.

486
00:24:36,916 --> 00:24:40,876
Speaker 2: You know something about those two three not too dissimilar

487
00:24:40,956 --> 00:24:43,716
Speaker 2: either in just the like you know the greatest, you

488
00:24:43,756 --> 00:24:46,396
Speaker 2: know they they they're like Stevie wonder maybe you.

489
00:24:46,396 --> 00:24:47,076
Speaker 7: Wonder what you know?

490
00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:51,156
Speaker 5: He was no listen, I was saying this just now

491
00:24:51,196 --> 00:24:54,036
Speaker 5: at Casey, I w has ever been an artist who's

492
00:24:54,036 --> 00:24:56,916
Speaker 5: had a greater run of albums than Stevie did from

493
00:24:56,956 --> 00:24:59,396
Speaker 5: like sixty eight right through to Hotter Than July nineteen

494
00:24:59,436 --> 00:25:01,076
Speaker 5: eighty Yeah, nobody.

495
00:25:00,796 --> 00:25:03,476
Speaker 2: Had people forget about how that's such believable.

496
00:25:03,716 --> 00:25:07,676
Speaker 1: That is a killer unbelievable. I remember remember seeing what

497
00:25:07,796 --> 00:25:11,876
Speaker 1: was a single of it called there was Jamming, Jamming,

498
00:25:12,396 --> 00:25:14,836
Speaker 1: Master Blasting, Master Blaster, Holy shit.

499
00:25:14,916 --> 00:25:16,556
Speaker 5: When that was on top of the pops, I remember

500
00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:20,036
Speaker 5: like and Stevie had the dreads with the beads. Yeah,

501
00:25:20,396 --> 00:25:22,836
Speaker 5: and like like I didn't know all of Stevie's I

502
00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:24,836
Speaker 5: was a kid, so I didn't know Stevie's stuff before that.

503
00:25:24,956 --> 00:25:29,356
Speaker 5: But you know, I remember actually the joy of discovering

504
00:25:29,436 --> 00:25:32,156
Speaker 5: Stevie like in properly in nineteen ninety two, and like

505
00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:37,436
Speaker 5: in a vision what talking about for you know, first fulfilling,

506
00:25:37,476 --> 00:25:41,636
Speaker 5: this first finale. You know, it's just unbelievable. So yeah,

507
00:25:41,676 --> 00:25:45,236
Speaker 5: I mean I think in terms of bands though, yeah,

508
00:25:45,396 --> 00:25:47,836
Speaker 5: I mean Sly and Earth When Fire and the Beatles,

509
00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:51,036
Speaker 5: like I mean just you know, take your pick on

510
00:25:51,156 --> 00:25:52,716
Speaker 5: whatever mood or day you want.

511
00:25:52,596 --> 00:25:55,796
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And that's it, not just because you're here. Yeah,

512
00:25:55,996 --> 00:25:57,996
Speaker 2: radioheard Mike's slipping there somewhere.

513
00:25:58,236 --> 00:26:02,396
Speaker 1: It may not have been long enough. We could see

514
00:26:02,396 --> 00:26:04,116
Speaker 1: lists the d list of that lot. I take that

515
00:26:04,196 --> 00:26:04,996
Speaker 1: as long as.

516
00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:06,996
Speaker 2: But there's a there's a similarity that I guess the

517
00:26:07,556 --> 00:26:11,196
Speaker 2: parallels would be really tight. I don't even if you

518
00:26:11,396 --> 00:26:13,796
Speaker 2: say that, but just really great songs, just great song

519
00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:16,756
Speaker 2: like just song songs seem to come first. And then

520
00:26:17,276 --> 00:26:19,476
Speaker 2: I mean not I was talking to about that yesterday

521
00:26:19,516 --> 00:26:22,916
Speaker 2: is because yeah, it's like the arrangements were so wild

522
00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:25,316
Speaker 2: on Earth Win five songs, but the songs did not

523
00:26:25,356 --> 00:26:28,276
Speaker 2: get lost ever. Like you were, you knew, even as

524
00:26:28,276 --> 00:26:31,116
Speaker 2: a lay person, you knew exactly what was happening and

525
00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:33,716
Speaker 2: where it was going. But but there was something way

526
00:26:33,756 --> 00:26:38,436
Speaker 2: crazy happening underneath. And that's the Beatles, that's Sly, that's.

527
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:41,276
Speaker 5: That, and then you know the other ingredient family that

528
00:26:41,436 --> 00:26:45,076
Speaker 5: we're all family, you know, like my radio heads Bander Brothers,

529
00:26:45,756 --> 00:26:49,076
Speaker 5: Sly family, Stone family, Yeah, Earth Wind and Fire family.

530
00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:52,276
Speaker 5: How many whites you know their family they become families

531
00:26:52,276 --> 00:26:54,476
Speaker 5: and light families. They argue when they do all of that,

532
00:26:54,796 --> 00:26:56,836
Speaker 5: But there's a lot of love and I think that

533
00:26:58,196 --> 00:27:03,356
Speaker 5: I think that is because music is magic. You know

534
00:27:03,436 --> 00:27:06,156
Speaker 5: that the medium we work in is it's there's you know,

535
00:27:06,236 --> 00:27:09,036
Speaker 5: as Quincy Jones used to say, like you know, you

536
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:11,276
Speaker 5: wait for God to walk through the room, you know,

537
00:27:11,356 --> 00:27:13,676
Speaker 5: and there is that and that's what there's the magic

538
00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:16,636
Speaker 5: of that. How do you summon God? Well, first we

539
00:27:16,796 --> 00:27:20,876
Speaker 5: have to work hard. Spirit that's given. But the second thing,

540
00:27:21,436 --> 00:27:23,676
Speaker 5: I think spirit comes through you when it can see

541
00:27:23,676 --> 00:27:25,876
Speaker 5: the love. And the love doesn't have to be your

542
00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:29,116
Speaker 5: or pally. The love is just it's there. It's like

543
00:27:29,236 --> 00:27:34,036
Speaker 5: a it's a brotherhood, a sisterhood. Well, Maurice White, I mean, like,

544
00:27:34,076 --> 00:27:35,796
Speaker 5: what was he trying to do? He was trying to

545
00:27:35,836 --> 00:27:40,556
Speaker 5: make sacred music essentially right move shift the consciousness of

546
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:45,196
Speaker 5: the world. That's that's spirit. So we're all conduits. That

547
00:27:45,236 --> 00:27:47,836
Speaker 5: band when they're in it, they're working as once. I mean,

548
00:27:47,836 --> 00:27:50,476
Speaker 5: has there ever been a tighter band than than Earth

549
00:27:50,516 --> 00:27:53,596
Speaker 5: Wind and Fire. They didn't have any click tracks and

550
00:27:53,636 --> 00:27:57,276
Speaker 5: they're in it, but they were co creating with spirit,

551
00:27:57,956 --> 00:28:01,236
Speaker 5: so I think and the Beatles, you know, definitely were

552
00:28:01,276 --> 00:28:04,756
Speaker 5: as well. I think there's that element is as I

553
00:28:04,836 --> 00:28:06,636
Speaker 5: understand it kind of from the inside.

554
00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:08,836
Speaker 1: That's a huge part.

555
00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:10,876
Speaker 5: Of Now my brother's in the band mic what you're

556
00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:14,356
Speaker 5: talking about, you know, But that's what I feel, and

557
00:28:14,516 --> 00:28:15,476
Speaker 5: that's kind of I know.

558
00:28:17,636 --> 00:28:19,436
Speaker 2: I feel this is a really good I hate I hate,

559
00:28:19,556 --> 00:28:22,476
Speaker 2: I hate segues that are too good, but incantations is

560
00:28:22,476 --> 00:28:22,836
Speaker 2: the first.

561
00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:25,996
Speaker 1: Then I feel like we should listen a little bit.

562
00:28:26,036 --> 00:28:29,596
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything.

563
00:29:12,316 --> 00:29:23,396
Speaker 9: It consur fe.

564
00:29:18,756 --> 00:29:21,196
Speaker 7: And the Gurse of Lonagol.

565
00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:33,516
Speaker 1: And all these you're so learning from it.

566
00:29:33,676 --> 00:29:47,636
Speaker 7: All and a fall day falling to condo the whole.

567
00:29:52,596 --> 00:29:53,556
Speaker 3: And with the.

568
00:29:58,876 --> 00:30:07,756
Speaker 1: I can't feel anything at all. Cool Chang.

569
00:30:13,836 --> 00:30:29,916
Speaker 9: Conditions up so conditions, the Joe in conditions up so contitions, man,

570
00:30:30,636 --> 00:30:50,276
Speaker 9: the Joe.

571
00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:55,076
Speaker 1: Good sun nice sum on. That system is great. It

572
00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:57,916
Speaker 1: sounds so good. I'm hearing stuff. Yeah, I'm hearing stuff

573
00:30:57,916 --> 00:30:58,596
Speaker 1: I didn't hear before.

574
00:30:58,756 --> 00:30:58,956
Speaker 3: Yeah.

575
00:30:59,436 --> 00:31:03,836
Speaker 1: Stream it's amazing, man, Thank you, thank you, thank you.

576
00:31:05,476 --> 00:31:07,836
Speaker 2: Talk about textures. There's all kinds of texture there's so

577
00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:11,196
Speaker 2: much that's the rain that did. The dynamism of that

578
00:31:11,396 --> 00:31:15,156
Speaker 2: is wild. How did how did that song come about?

579
00:31:15,796 --> 00:31:22,796
Speaker 5: That comes That was when the sort of the the

580
00:31:22,996 --> 00:31:26,236
Speaker 5: first shoots of this album were really from a very

581
00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:30,396
Speaker 5: dark place and I fell into this this sort of

582
00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:34,516
Speaker 5: very dark depression, which I sort of reframed it and

583
00:31:34,516 --> 00:31:37,476
Speaker 5: it was like a dark knight of the soul. And

584
00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:39,716
Speaker 5: that was one of the songs. During this process. One

585
00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:41,476
Speaker 5: of the things I did. I had a daily practice

586
00:31:41,516 --> 00:31:44,316
Speaker 5: which was literally just pick up my guitar and play.

587
00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:46,596
Speaker 5: Go to this little room. It was in the second lockdown,

588
00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:50,556
Speaker 5: and I played for three hours and I was just therapy.

589
00:31:52,076 --> 00:31:53,916
Speaker 5: And that was one of the songs. One of the

590
00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:58,596
Speaker 5: musical motifs or the cyclical guitar riff sort of emerged

591
00:31:59,276 --> 00:32:02,236
Speaker 5: in one of these sittings, and when I heard it,

592
00:32:02,596 --> 00:32:06,396
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, that's that's the place that I

593
00:32:06,436 --> 00:32:09,356
Speaker 5: am it. I felt like I was in this labynth.

594
00:32:09,436 --> 00:32:12,356
Speaker 5: I was stuck in this labyrinth. I didn't know how

595
00:32:12,396 --> 00:32:14,636
Speaker 5: to get out this place. And you know the story

596
00:32:14,636 --> 00:32:17,716
Speaker 5: of the Greek myth of Theseus and the minutur and

597
00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:21,956
Speaker 5: Theseus gets thrown in the labyrinth, and which is this

598
00:32:22,156 --> 00:32:25,596
Speaker 5: maze that was constructed by King Minos of crete Midas

599
00:32:25,596 --> 00:32:29,516
Speaker 5: of crete, and there was a beast in there, and

600
00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:32,316
Speaker 5: in order to get out he had to slay the beast,

601
00:32:32,756 --> 00:32:36,076
Speaker 5: but you get lost. So nobody had got out, and

602
00:32:36,116 --> 00:32:38,596
Speaker 5: the king's daughter had fallen in love with him, and

603
00:32:38,836 --> 00:32:41,276
Speaker 5: her name was I think her name was Ariadne, and

604
00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:46,716
Speaker 5: Ariadney had this thread that she gave to theseus as

605
00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:49,116
Speaker 5: he was descended down and so he had to follow

606
00:32:49,196 --> 00:32:50,876
Speaker 5: this thread out, but on the way he also had

607
00:32:50,916 --> 00:32:53,476
Speaker 5: to slay the minu tour this half man, half beast.

608
00:32:54,036 --> 00:32:56,876
Speaker 5: So that was literally so that it's funny with music.

609
00:32:56,876 --> 00:33:00,476
Speaker 5: What I've kind of what I think is extraordinary about

610
00:33:00,476 --> 00:33:03,796
Speaker 5: the medium music is that, you know, music is essentially maths.

611
00:33:04,036 --> 00:33:08,956
Speaker 5: It's mathematical intervals in patterns, and that this music can

612
00:33:08,956 --> 00:33:12,556
Speaker 5: come out of you or it's you know, I don't

613
00:33:12,556 --> 00:33:15,756
Speaker 5: know how it happens, and it somehow manages to capture

614
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:19,956
Speaker 5: the emotion of where you are at that time. So

615
00:33:20,036 --> 00:33:22,396
Speaker 5: that was a really dark place and for me that

616
00:33:22,476 --> 00:33:24,276
Speaker 5: was always the opener of the album. And you know,

617
00:33:24,316 --> 00:33:27,676
Speaker 5: the whole idea of Incantations was I had this feeling

618
00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:32,676
Speaker 5: that I spend a lot of time in Wales, in

619
00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:36,036
Speaker 5: our houses in Wales, and it's in the hills there,

620
00:33:36,036 --> 00:33:39,116
Speaker 5: and it's it's it's very wild countryside, it's very ancient,

621
00:33:40,036 --> 00:33:42,276
Speaker 5: and there's a power in this land.

622
00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:43,076
Speaker 1: You can feel it.

623
00:33:43,116 --> 00:33:45,876
Speaker 5: And I had this image of, like, so a lot

624
00:33:45,876 --> 00:33:48,036
Speaker 5: of the time I go walking in the in these

625
00:33:48,076 --> 00:33:51,556
Speaker 5: ancient old trails, like thousands of years old, and you

626
00:33:51,556 --> 00:33:53,716
Speaker 5: could feel it. But I could feel the power of

627
00:33:53,756 --> 00:33:55,876
Speaker 5: the land, and I felt that was healing me. So

628
00:33:55,916 --> 00:33:59,996
Speaker 5: I felt incantations are like spells and ancient. You know,

629
00:34:00,036 --> 00:34:03,676
Speaker 5: it's very Celtic, a lot of you know, Celtic spirituality.

630
00:34:03,716 --> 00:34:07,276
Speaker 5: They invoked spirit and and my image was of that

631
00:34:07,396 --> 00:34:11,036
Speaker 5: Shakespeare play Macbeth the Three, which is around the cauldron

632
00:34:11,196 --> 00:34:14,556
Speaker 5: in this wood, and the cauldron's bubbling and there's a

633
00:34:14,636 --> 00:34:17,916
Speaker 5: fire and they're they're they're delivering spells a toil toll,

634
00:34:17,916 --> 00:34:19,636
Speaker 5: bubble and trouble. And I had this thing of like,

635
00:34:20,236 --> 00:34:22,636
Speaker 5: the earth is going to heal me, you know, She's

636
00:34:22,716 --> 00:34:26,316
Speaker 5: gonna heal me. And so that's that's what I was

637
00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:29,236
Speaker 5: sort of throwing into the mix of this dark place,

638
00:34:29,276 --> 00:34:31,796
Speaker 5: and it was, yeah, it's sort of you know, it's

639
00:34:31,796 --> 00:34:34,876
Speaker 5: funny how these things emerge, and it wasn't a conscious thing.

640
00:34:34,876 --> 00:34:37,236
Speaker 5: I wasn't like the thing about this record was it

641
00:34:37,276 --> 00:34:39,956
Speaker 5: wasn't I wasn't controlling it in a way. It just

642
00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:43,196
Speaker 5: comes out. And my job was to not get in

643
00:34:43,236 --> 00:34:45,916
Speaker 5: the way. My job was what is this?

644
00:34:46,556 --> 00:34:48,436
Speaker 1: Yeah? I didn't know what. I knew where.

645
00:34:48,636 --> 00:34:50,236
Speaker 5: I kind of didn't know where we were starting, and

646
00:34:50,276 --> 00:34:52,316
Speaker 5: I didn't know where we were finished. But I knew

647
00:34:52,476 --> 00:34:54,996
Speaker 5: when we were finished, you know, I knew it was that, Okay,

648
00:34:55,076 --> 00:34:57,196
Speaker 5: this is But that was what's so beautiful about this

649
00:34:57,236 --> 00:35:00,236
Speaker 5: whole process was just letting go what is this?

650
00:35:01,676 --> 00:35:03,796
Speaker 2: So? But it started with just you in a room, yeah,

651
00:35:03,836 --> 00:35:06,556
Speaker 2: and a guitar, and it slowly became a little more.

652
00:35:06,756 --> 00:35:07,076
Speaker 1: Yeah.

653
00:35:07,236 --> 00:35:09,476
Speaker 5: It really got to a stage where and I was

654
00:35:09,476 --> 00:35:13,396
Speaker 5: working with Paul Epworth and Riley McIntyre, and Paul's a

655
00:35:13,436 --> 00:35:16,916
Speaker 5: brilliant co writer, and so we would sort of work

656
00:35:16,956 --> 00:35:21,036
Speaker 5: stuff up in my studio and in his studio, the

657
00:35:21,116 --> 00:35:23,076
Speaker 5: three of us, and then it gets to a time

658
00:35:23,076 --> 00:35:24,836
Speaker 5: when I need to get musicians in. I need to

659
00:35:24,836 --> 00:35:28,356
Speaker 5: get a band in. So my great he's my brother,

660
00:35:28,476 --> 00:35:31,396
Speaker 5: David Kumu. He's a solo artist in his own right.

661
00:35:31,636 --> 00:35:33,676
Speaker 5: He played on my first record. I've known him for

662
00:35:33,676 --> 00:35:36,156
Speaker 5: a while. I went to see his band play at

663
00:35:36,156 --> 00:35:40,036
Speaker 5: the Roundhouse in London. His band the Seven Gens, David Koman,

664
00:35:40,116 --> 00:35:42,316
Speaker 5: the Seven Generations, Seven Gens.

665
00:35:42,756 --> 00:35:45,556
Speaker 1: And it was mesmeric and I.

666
00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:47,516
Speaker 5: Saw and it was just at the time that we

667
00:35:47,516 --> 00:35:49,716
Speaker 5: were I think I need to get a band together,

668
00:35:49,756 --> 00:35:52,636
Speaker 5: and finding a musical family is not easy, right yeah,

669
00:35:52,676 --> 00:35:55,676
Speaker 5: And I was like, okay, so it's like, Dave, can

670
00:35:55,716 --> 00:35:56,556
Speaker 5: you put a band together?

671
00:35:56,556 --> 00:35:58,516
Speaker 1: And he said, how about the Seven Gens? I said,

672
00:35:58,516 --> 00:35:58,796
Speaker 1: I'm in.

673
00:35:58,956 --> 00:36:03,476
Speaker 5: So these incredible players, Eve Fernandez on bass, Dancy on drums,

674
00:36:03,556 --> 00:36:08,796
Speaker 5: Crispin Fryn percussion, Nick Rahm on keys, and Esca who

675
00:36:08,836 --> 00:36:13,076
Speaker 5: became She's she's a vocalist for Dave as well. She

676
00:36:13,156 --> 00:36:16,636
Speaker 5: became a really important part of the whole project. So

677
00:36:17,596 --> 00:36:19,596
Speaker 5: I sort of borrowed his family and we had three

678
00:36:19,676 --> 00:36:22,596
Speaker 5: days of recording and it was just kind of a

679
00:36:22,716 --> 00:36:25,756
Speaker 5: utopian recording experience. These guys are so good and they

680
00:36:25,756 --> 00:36:27,996
Speaker 5: got the vibers of the song we would.

681
00:36:28,396 --> 00:36:29,516
Speaker 1: I remember that song.

682
00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:31,356
Speaker 5: Was the first song we did and we so I

683
00:36:31,396 --> 00:36:34,716
Speaker 5: think we did it on a Monday. Everybody gets when

684
00:36:34,756 --> 00:36:38,836
Speaker 5: we start playing eleven And I remember Riley because I.

685
00:36:38,876 --> 00:36:39,516
Speaker 1: Kind of primed it.

686
00:36:39,556 --> 00:36:43,396
Speaker 5: I said, listen, and he knew the musical references. I said,

687
00:36:43,396 --> 00:36:46,636
Speaker 5: I want it to sound like you know, I want

688
00:36:46,636 --> 00:36:48,996
Speaker 5: it to sound like that ear A sixty eight seventy three.

689
00:36:49,036 --> 00:36:51,116
Speaker 5: I don't want to sound too digitu it's not be clean.

690
00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:53,156
Speaker 5: I kept on sing, there's you know this is there's

691
00:36:53,196 --> 00:36:55,196
Speaker 5: got to be dirt under the fingernails here. You've got

692
00:36:55,236 --> 00:36:57,476
Speaker 5: to feel the earth, you know, you got to feel that,

693
00:36:57,876 --> 00:36:59,356
Speaker 5: you know, you got to feel the saturation. I was

694
00:36:59,356 --> 00:37:01,356
Speaker 5: really influenced you know who does it obviously really well

695
00:37:03,396 --> 00:37:06,476
Speaker 5: Inflow and Danger Mouse, all the work they did with

696
00:37:06,476 --> 00:37:10,116
Speaker 5: Michael Kiwanuka. Right, I love the saturate. I love the

697
00:37:10,116 --> 00:37:13,796
Speaker 5: sound of those records, great records. Right, And so Riley knew,

698
00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:16,356
Speaker 5: and so remember just we've gone through a couple of

699
00:37:16,356 --> 00:37:19,396
Speaker 5: takes and just you know, settled down, everyone have a

700
00:37:19,396 --> 00:37:22,756
Speaker 5: cup of tea, and Riley played mer Monitormis. I was like, shit, okay,

701
00:37:22,956 --> 00:37:26,836
Speaker 5: we've got the sound. The playing's good. It was amazing.

702
00:37:26,876 --> 00:37:29,276
Speaker 5: And then Paul's studio, which is which is an old church,

703
00:37:29,476 --> 00:37:33,316
Speaker 5: yeah a holy space was just kind of magic.

704
00:37:33,676 --> 00:37:35,916
Speaker 1: Wow, it's an old it's an old church. That he yeah,

705
00:37:35,916 --> 00:37:36,876
Speaker 1: he always properly.

706
00:37:37,276 --> 00:37:37,516
Speaker 2: We know.

707
00:37:37,636 --> 00:37:40,516
Speaker 5: It's in crouch End in London. It was originally owned

708
00:37:40,596 --> 00:37:43,996
Speaker 5: by Dave Stewart of the Rhythmics. He owned it and

709
00:37:44,036 --> 00:37:47,236
Speaker 5: then and actually Radiohead we recorded some voc computer in

710
00:37:47,276 --> 00:37:50,836
Speaker 5: there back in ninety seven and then he sold it

711
00:37:50,836 --> 00:37:54,236
Speaker 5: to David Gray and then Paul bought it off David Gray.

712
00:37:54,636 --> 00:37:57,076
Speaker 5: I don't know in about twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen when Paul,

713
00:37:57,236 --> 00:38:00,036
Speaker 5: because Paul was a co you know, he worked with

714
00:38:00,156 --> 00:38:03,356
Speaker 5: Adele and co wrote Rolling in the Deep and produced that.

715
00:38:03,996 --> 00:38:08,036
Speaker 5: So he put all his good fortune into this amazing

716
00:38:08,076 --> 00:38:09,876
Speaker 5: studio and that's got the best gear and has just

717
00:38:09,956 --> 00:38:11,636
Speaker 5: made it this incredible space.

718
00:38:12,036 --> 00:38:15,156
Speaker 1: Two studios there. And he came from Black Party. Yeah,

719
00:38:15,196 --> 00:38:15,636
Speaker 1: that's right.

720
00:38:15,796 --> 00:38:17,796
Speaker 5: Paul came from that background, and then he found himself

721
00:38:17,796 --> 00:38:23,876
Speaker 5: to be he like was was producing Florence and Machine Adele,

722
00:38:24,596 --> 00:38:27,516
Speaker 5: you know, and then went on he became like the

723
00:38:27,596 --> 00:38:30,716
Speaker 5: A list producer, yeah, you know, and went down and

724
00:38:30,756 --> 00:38:32,116
Speaker 5: plowed that furrow for a while.

725
00:38:32,676 --> 00:38:33,996
Speaker 2: It must have been nice to get back to this

726
00:38:34,036 --> 00:38:35,076
Speaker 2: a little bit, but yeah, I.

727
00:38:35,076 --> 00:38:35,796
Speaker 1: Think it was good.

728
00:38:35,836 --> 00:38:38,236
Speaker 5: You know. What was lovely. What was lovely about it

729
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,356
Speaker 5: was we connected. I mean, you know, when I worked

730
00:38:40,356 --> 00:38:43,916
Speaker 5: with Paul. I wasn't working with him because he was

731
00:38:43,956 --> 00:38:48,036
Speaker 5: the A list producer. I work with people. I realized this.

732
00:38:48,116 --> 00:38:50,236
Speaker 5: I work with people that I love, you know, I

733
00:38:50,276 --> 00:38:51,836
Speaker 5: can't do it with people I don't love.

734
00:38:53,596 --> 00:38:56,076
Speaker 1: Why Why Because it's such.

735
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,276
Speaker 5: A personal thing making you spend so much time with them.

736
00:38:59,636 --> 00:39:02,956
Speaker 5: And I'm just like one of those people. I'm I'm

737
00:39:03,076 --> 00:39:06,236
Speaker 5: I'm a heart person. So Paul and I connected, you know,

738
00:39:06,356 --> 00:39:08,396
Speaker 5: you know those moments in life when you talk to somebody.

739
00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:11,276
Speaker 5: We spoke on the phone before we'd ever met. We

740
00:39:10,916 --> 00:39:14,916
Speaker 5: were we're often running for an hour and it's like

741
00:39:14,956 --> 00:39:18,236
Speaker 5: a it's like a soul connection, and so I think

742
00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:19,836
Speaker 5: it was great for both of us. It was great

743
00:39:19,876 --> 00:39:22,276
Speaker 5: for me because he's an incredible songwriter, so it was

744
00:39:22,316 --> 00:39:24,996
Speaker 5: great to bounce stuff ideas off him and he you know,

745
00:39:25,036 --> 00:39:29,076
Speaker 5: he he sold Fajio, the track sol Fegio. He started that,

746
00:39:29,116 --> 00:39:33,436
Speaker 5: he initiated that. So it was really you know, because

747
00:39:33,436 --> 00:39:35,476
Speaker 5: when you work on when you're a solo artist, you

748
00:39:35,596 --> 00:39:38,676
Speaker 5: need you need people to riff with that. The more

749
00:39:38,716 --> 00:39:43,076
Speaker 5: ideas the better. So yeah, it was really amazing working

750
00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:43,476
Speaker 5: with him.

751
00:39:43,676 --> 00:39:46,716
Speaker 1: Did it ever, did you ever find it getting too far.

752
00:39:46,316 --> 00:39:49,676
Speaker 2: From where you wanted it and you had to move

753
00:39:49,676 --> 00:39:50,676
Speaker 2: a back or I don't know.

754
00:39:50,796 --> 00:39:52,396
Speaker 5: I didn't know where we were going. So I was

755
00:39:52,476 --> 00:39:57,396
Speaker 5: embracing it all and it was very much, very much

756
00:39:57,636 --> 00:40:00,676
Speaker 5: and used that word leaning into, but I'm really leaning

757
00:40:00,716 --> 00:40:04,636
Speaker 5: into serendipity and synchronosity because I have a I have

758
00:40:04,676 --> 00:40:07,036
Speaker 5: a very strong spiritual practice, and.

759
00:40:08,716 --> 00:40:10,956
Speaker 1: What's beautiful about this journey is.

760
00:40:10,836 --> 00:40:14,716
Speaker 5: That I have this utter conviction and I know that

761
00:40:15,476 --> 00:40:18,076
Speaker 5: you have everything around you, were given everything around you

762
00:40:18,116 --> 00:40:20,556
Speaker 5: in order to evolve. You have all the circumstances, all

763
00:40:20,596 --> 00:40:23,756
Speaker 5: the things to give. So when you meet people in chance,

764
00:40:24,636 --> 00:40:28,436
Speaker 5: seemingly chance happenings or occurrences you know are given to you,

765
00:40:29,276 --> 00:40:32,436
Speaker 5: there's often things there. So I really leant into that,

766
00:40:32,476 --> 00:40:34,676
Speaker 5: and if the music wanted to take a left term,

767
00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:37,356
Speaker 5: we just followed that and I didn't worry. What I

768
00:40:37,596 --> 00:40:42,676
Speaker 5: was good about was I would flag out. I would say, Okay,

769
00:40:43,436 --> 00:40:46,956
Speaker 5: I'm not feeling this, but again, what's been really I

770
00:40:46,996 --> 00:40:49,356
Speaker 5: had Again, one of the things I learned on this

771
00:40:49,396 --> 00:40:53,396
Speaker 5: record was in the past and certainly where I've come from,

772
00:40:53,516 --> 00:40:58,836
Speaker 5: if you flag up saying I'm not feeling this, the

773
00:40:58,836 --> 00:41:01,636
Speaker 5: the onus is to find a solution and go I'm

774
00:41:01,636 --> 00:41:02,556
Speaker 5: not feeling this, but we.

775
00:41:02,476 --> 00:41:03,036
Speaker 1: Should do this.

776
00:41:03,396 --> 00:41:08,436
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I I was just like, I was like,

777
00:41:08,556 --> 00:41:10,516
Speaker 5: not into that. I'm not feeling this, but I don't

778
00:41:10,556 --> 00:41:14,836
Speaker 5: know what to do and leaving the space that you

779
00:41:15,076 --> 00:41:18,076
Speaker 5: don't know, you don't have the answer because I think

780
00:41:18,116 --> 00:41:20,356
Speaker 5: the ego wants to go I know how to sort

781
00:41:20,396 --> 00:41:22,196
Speaker 5: this out. This is what we do, this is the

782
00:41:22,196 --> 00:41:24,516
Speaker 5: way forward. But what I do is I would just like,

783
00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:26,396
Speaker 5: I'll go, Paul.

784
00:41:26,196 --> 00:41:27,556
Speaker 1: Riley, I don't know why.

785
00:41:27,596 --> 00:41:31,036
Speaker 5: I'm just not feeling this. And it's almost everyone can

786
00:41:31,036 --> 00:41:32,716
Speaker 5: tell in the room and you go, well, I don't know,

787
00:41:33,156 --> 00:41:36,316
Speaker 5: And what was so amazing was within and how you'd

788
00:41:36,316 --> 00:41:39,716
Speaker 5: found the solution. But the solution, like the riff that emerges,

789
00:41:39,996 --> 00:41:42,836
Speaker 5: it comes through you. So it's what I feel like

790
00:41:42,876 --> 00:41:45,996
Speaker 5: it is is you're leaving room for spirit to go, Okay,

791
00:41:45,996 --> 00:41:47,956
Speaker 5: I've got the solution and you just pick it up

792
00:41:47,956 --> 00:41:50,876
Speaker 5: and say, okay, it's that. So it's all part of

793
00:41:50,916 --> 00:41:53,676
Speaker 5: the process of letting go. And I that for me

794
00:41:54,436 --> 00:41:58,516
Speaker 5: is why I mean I've gone up another love in

795
00:41:59,516 --> 00:42:04,956
Speaker 5: creativity and recording because the less I know I feel,

796
00:42:04,956 --> 00:42:08,236
Speaker 5: the richer it becomes, or the less import or the

797
00:42:08,316 --> 00:42:12,356
Speaker 5: less I have solutions. I just it's like, oh, it

798
00:42:12,396 --> 00:42:15,116
Speaker 5: wants to go this way, and I love that because

799
00:42:15,316 --> 00:42:18,876
Speaker 5: that's where you get surprises rather than like imposing your

800
00:42:18,916 --> 00:42:21,716
Speaker 5: own rigid idea of what it should be. I'm not

801
00:42:21,796 --> 00:42:23,916
Speaker 5: into that. I like, I don't know what this is.

802
00:42:24,556 --> 00:42:26,676
Speaker 5: Let's see what it is. You have the things that

803
00:42:26,716 --> 00:42:28,916
Speaker 5: you resonate with, like you point out, like I love

804
00:42:28,956 --> 00:42:31,636
Speaker 5: this sound, and you know, and we did a whole thing,

805
00:42:31,756 --> 00:42:34,516
Speaker 5: spend a couple of days like listening to music that

806
00:42:34,796 --> 00:42:37,236
Speaker 5: you know from that era and also kiwanuukra and a

807
00:42:37,276 --> 00:42:39,436
Speaker 5: lot of salt stuff. We're going like I love this,

808
00:42:39,596 --> 00:42:41,636
Speaker 5: I love the sound of that, and so you build

809
00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:46,236
Speaker 5: up like a mood board of sounds and kind of

810
00:42:46,236 --> 00:42:48,796
Speaker 5: flavors and then you go. But that, again is intuitive

811
00:42:48,796 --> 00:42:51,596
Speaker 5: and what's intuition. It's like following another thread.

812
00:42:52,236 --> 00:42:52,876
Speaker 1: So I.

813
00:42:54,516 --> 00:42:56,596
Speaker 5: Really love that whole kind of I yeah, like I said,

814
00:42:56,676 --> 00:42:59,636
Speaker 5: letting goes, it's just amazing.

815
00:42:59,796 --> 00:43:02,276
Speaker 1: It's interesting listening to you talking. I'm realizing it. I'm

816
00:43:02,276 --> 00:43:04,036
Speaker 1: thinking this through. I mean, art really is one of

817
00:43:04,116 --> 00:43:04,916
Speaker 1: the few.

818
00:43:06,236 --> 00:43:09,796
Speaker 2: Spaces in life where getting last virtual.

819
00:43:10,196 --> 00:43:12,196
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think, what you know, when I heard

820
00:43:12,716 --> 00:43:15,036
Speaker 5: someone say a definition of an artist it's like it's

821
00:43:15,076 --> 00:43:18,676
Speaker 5: really following your intuition. And I think that's so amazing

822
00:43:18,716 --> 00:43:22,676
Speaker 5: because you know, the mind can go. What's so interesting,

823
00:43:22,756 --> 00:43:26,236
Speaker 5: The mind will go. The mind is the some some

824
00:43:26,796 --> 00:43:29,476
Speaker 5: parts of all your experiences. So your mind says you

825
00:43:29,516 --> 00:43:31,116
Speaker 5: can do this, you can do that, you can't do that,

826
00:43:31,476 --> 00:43:34,956
Speaker 5: so it's kind of limiting. But your intuition. I was

827
00:43:35,076 --> 00:43:37,636
Speaker 5: this intuition though, and your mind can only see what's

828
00:43:37,676 --> 00:43:40,476
Speaker 5: in front of you. The intuition can see around the bend,

829
00:43:40,836 --> 00:43:44,556
Speaker 5: and the intuition can also see your your your arc,

830
00:43:44,836 --> 00:43:48,036
Speaker 5: your journey of life. And I really believe that, and

831
00:43:48,116 --> 00:43:52,236
Speaker 5: I think so the intuition goes, this might seem mad

832
00:43:52,236 --> 00:43:55,796
Speaker 5: at this stage, but and you go and you double goat,

833
00:43:55,876 --> 00:43:59,316
Speaker 5: but this feels really good. And that's what we must do.

834
00:43:59,396 --> 00:44:01,036
Speaker 5: We must follow that thing. And we're like, I don't

835
00:44:01,076 --> 00:44:03,676
Speaker 5: understand it, and it might not make sense now, but

836
00:44:03,796 --> 00:44:06,236
Speaker 5: you can be sure if you do that at some

837
00:44:06,356 --> 00:44:09,596
Speaker 5: later stage, it will makes sense. But what's also true

838
00:44:09,636 --> 00:44:11,996
Speaker 5: about intuition, it's almost like a muscle that has to

839
00:44:11,996 --> 00:44:15,276
Speaker 5: be used. So again, you have to look after your intuition.

840
00:44:15,676 --> 00:44:19,236
Speaker 5: Your intuition needs it needs nurturing. And I've learned that

841
00:44:19,276 --> 00:44:21,316
Speaker 5: over the years. There are things things you do and

842
00:44:21,396 --> 00:44:25,476
Speaker 5: don't do that help sharpen your intuition, those which also

843
00:44:25,716 --> 00:44:27,716
Speaker 5: dull it, you know, and blunt it.

844
00:44:28,436 --> 00:44:30,756
Speaker 2: So what do you what do you how do you

845
00:44:31,036 --> 00:44:31,916
Speaker 2: keep your intuition?

846
00:44:34,156 --> 00:44:36,196
Speaker 5: Well, I think humility is a big part of that

847
00:44:36,636 --> 00:44:42,796
Speaker 5: gratitude for my spiritual practice. Things to avoid drugs, you know,

848
00:44:43,676 --> 00:44:46,236
Speaker 5: you know, cocaine and things like that. They're not great

849
00:44:46,276 --> 00:44:49,316
Speaker 5: for your intuition. And you know, you again, you.

850
00:44:48,876 --> 00:44:50,476
Speaker 2: Know, I don't know, I've met some I don't know,

851
00:44:50,876 --> 00:44:52,636
Speaker 2: you know, I've I've had some conversations.

852
00:44:52,956 --> 00:44:56,956
Speaker 5: Well, the thing is when things going well, no, that's true,

853
00:44:56,956 --> 00:45:00,396
Speaker 5: but yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, but it's it's not

854
00:45:00,436 --> 00:45:03,116
Speaker 5: a long term solution. I think those things can be

855
00:45:03,236 --> 00:45:05,276
Speaker 5: That's why people get into them. They go super quick

856
00:45:05,276 --> 00:45:09,436
Speaker 5: and they're like wow, but it won't last. And so

857
00:45:09,716 --> 00:45:14,756
Speaker 5: I think I think it's Yeah, for me, it's like

858
00:45:14,916 --> 00:45:18,316
Speaker 5: and relying on it and taking time out and stillness.

859
00:45:18,476 --> 00:45:20,836
Speaker 5: I think still that I have a strong meditative practice.

860
00:45:21,436 --> 00:45:26,796
Speaker 5: So I think all these things and listening and kind

861
00:45:26,836 --> 00:45:30,596
Speaker 5: of honoring as well what you feel and your truth.

862
00:45:31,156 --> 00:45:33,556
Speaker 5: I think that's super important because it's like, rather than

863
00:45:33,596 --> 00:45:37,356
Speaker 5: doing the shoulds. It's like, what do I feel? What

864
00:45:37,436 --> 00:45:39,556
Speaker 5: do I really feel? And I think again, if you

865
00:45:39,916 --> 00:45:44,076
Speaker 5: keep doing that with your intuition, then your intuition gets

866
00:45:44,116 --> 00:45:45,996
Speaker 5: stronger and rewards you. And it's like builds it builds

867
00:45:46,076 --> 00:45:48,556
Speaker 5: up its own confidence or it becomes stronger like a muscle.

868
00:45:48,756 --> 00:45:52,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, when do you think you learn this? Oh, that's

869
00:45:52,476 --> 00:45:53,396
Speaker 1: a really good question.

870
00:45:54,356 --> 00:45:58,156
Speaker 5: I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, it's

871
00:45:58,556 --> 00:46:01,076
Speaker 5: I've been on this spiritual journey. I've been on this journey.

872
00:46:01,236 --> 00:46:03,316
Speaker 5: I call it spiritual journey. I've been on this journey

873
00:46:03,396 --> 00:46:05,956
Speaker 5: like essentially it started off as a journey of healing

874
00:46:07,876 --> 00:46:14,116
Speaker 5: and it's been going on since about two thousand and two.

875
00:46:15,436 --> 00:46:17,556
Speaker 5: It's a really good I don't know, there was no

876
00:46:17,556 --> 00:46:20,996
Speaker 5: Eureka moment, but on my journey on this on the healing,

877
00:46:21,036 --> 00:46:23,956
Speaker 5: trying to heal myself and become a whole if you like,

878
00:46:25,196 --> 00:46:28,516
Speaker 5: what I've found is it's a it's a it's just

879
00:46:28,556 --> 00:46:30,876
Speaker 5: been a series of things that you do and you

880
00:46:30,956 --> 00:46:33,076
Speaker 5: work out things that work for you, work don't work

881
00:46:33,116 --> 00:46:35,956
Speaker 5: for you, and then it's just and it can be

882
00:46:36,036 --> 00:46:41,796
Speaker 5: everything from nutrition to meditation to the people you hang

883
00:46:41,836 --> 00:46:46,756
Speaker 5: out with. Being a good gate keeper, yoga, all these things.

884
00:46:46,836 --> 00:46:49,356
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, it's really interesting. So I don't

885
00:46:49,356 --> 00:46:52,516
Speaker 5: think there was any moment. And you know, listen, I'm

886
00:46:52,676 --> 00:46:54,516
Speaker 5: you know, someone could turn around and go that's bullshit,

887
00:46:54,556 --> 00:46:56,756
Speaker 5: and I go, yeah, you're probably right. I don't, but

888
00:46:56,876 --> 00:47:01,396
Speaker 5: I'm just I guess I'm a seeker. You seem like

889
00:47:01,716 --> 00:47:03,116
Speaker 5: I'm a seeker. I'm definitely.

890
00:47:04,596 --> 00:47:05,036
Speaker 1: Always.

891
00:47:05,156 --> 00:47:07,436
Speaker 5: And like I remember like at school, like you know,

892
00:47:07,476 --> 00:47:09,916
Speaker 5: we'd have these lectures when you're seventeen, you have every

893
00:47:09,956 --> 00:47:12,556
Speaker 5: week you have visiting lectures, and you know, you'd have

894
00:47:12,716 --> 00:47:14,716
Speaker 5: like we were in Oxford, so you'd have an Oxford.

895
00:47:14,396 --> 00:47:15,956
Speaker 1: Academic and you'd have a lawyer.

896
00:47:15,996 --> 00:47:18,756
Speaker 5: And then I remember one week there was this guy

897
00:47:18,796 --> 00:47:22,836
Speaker 5: who came along and he was talking about Tibet and

898
00:47:22,876 --> 00:47:27,916
Speaker 5: he was talking about spirituality and Buddhism, and all my.

899
00:47:27,956 --> 00:47:30,596
Speaker 1: Mates are kind of like fucking hippie.

900
00:47:30,596 --> 00:47:34,876
Speaker 5: This is like nineteen eighty five, and I'm like transfixed.

901
00:47:35,636 --> 00:47:40,076
Speaker 5: And you know, there was this thing that if if

902
00:47:40,196 --> 00:47:42,796
Speaker 5: you could go and have a coffee with a lecturer afterwards,

903
00:47:43,276 --> 00:47:45,076
Speaker 5: and I was straight, and I was the only guy

904
00:47:45,116 --> 00:47:47,716
Speaker 5: there and I was just like fascinated. So it's in

905
00:47:47,716 --> 00:47:51,156
Speaker 5: my DNA. It's like I've always been. I've always loved

906
00:47:51,236 --> 00:47:53,516
Speaker 5: I grew up in a so there was Oxford, but

907
00:47:53,596 --> 00:47:55,996
Speaker 5: when my parents split up, we moved to West Oxfordshire

908
00:47:55,996 --> 00:47:59,716
Speaker 5: and it's very old Britain. It's about two miles from

909
00:47:59,756 --> 00:48:04,356
Speaker 5: this place called white Horse Hill, Uffington. White Horse, this

910
00:48:04,516 --> 00:48:07,476
Speaker 5: beautiful chalk white Horse in the hill.

911
00:48:07,476 --> 00:48:08,516
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful image.

912
00:48:08,516 --> 00:48:12,516
Speaker 5: It's the front of English settlement by xtc Oh because

913
00:48:12,556 --> 00:48:14,916
Speaker 5: they were from Swindon just down the road. But it's

914
00:48:14,956 --> 00:48:17,516
Speaker 5: an ancient part of Britain and Averbury's down the road.

915
00:48:17,556 --> 00:48:21,996
Speaker 5: So I was always I was always drawn to I

916
00:48:21,996 --> 00:48:28,036
Speaker 5: guess places, old power, nodes of power, spirit places, you know.

917
00:48:28,156 --> 00:48:32,036
Speaker 5: So again I followed my intuition. And music's great for

918
00:48:32,116 --> 00:48:35,196
Speaker 5: that because you know how many musicians. While we talked

919
00:48:35,196 --> 00:48:38,596
Speaker 5: about led Zeppelin earlier, I mean that that's steeped in

920
00:48:38,676 --> 00:48:40,396
Speaker 5: and you think it like you know, talking about earth

921
00:48:40,436 --> 00:48:43,396
Speaker 5: wind and fire and so it's in this music. So

922
00:48:43,436 --> 00:48:46,076
Speaker 5: I think it's a natural thing. So I'm just seeking.

923
00:48:46,276 --> 00:48:49,756
Speaker 5: I'm just eyes open. And also about twenty years ago

924
00:48:49,876 --> 00:48:52,676
Speaker 5: I did this thing. Where as I'm not going to

925
00:48:52,756 --> 00:48:56,436
Speaker 5: let my creative or my critical faculty get in the

926
00:48:56,436 --> 00:48:59,036
Speaker 5: way of anything because It's very easy to go, what

927
00:48:59,036 --> 00:49:00,956
Speaker 5: are you doing that for? You come from Oxford, how

928
00:49:00,956 --> 00:49:04,876
Speaker 5: can you empirically prove that you know? Where's the academic rigor?

929
00:49:05,516 --> 00:49:06,916
Speaker 5: I let that go and I said, I'm going to

930
00:49:06,996 --> 00:49:10,116
Speaker 5: read everything and anything, and I'm going to just see

931
00:49:10,156 --> 00:49:12,156
Speaker 5: how it sits. And I'm going to experience stuff from

932
00:49:12,476 --> 00:49:15,356
Speaker 5: being to Brazil to see healers and you know.

933
00:49:15,356 --> 00:49:15,916
Speaker 1: All this stuff.

934
00:49:15,916 --> 00:49:18,596
Speaker 5: And I'm like, Okay, I'm going to experience it and

935
00:49:18,636 --> 00:49:21,276
Speaker 5: see how that feels, and then I'll decide, you know

936
00:49:21,436 --> 00:49:23,996
Speaker 5: what do I resonate with so? And it just carries

937
00:49:24,036 --> 00:49:24,436
Speaker 5: on so.

938
00:49:24,756 --> 00:49:25,356
Speaker 1: And that goes back.

939
00:49:25,396 --> 00:49:29,156
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, you know, the Tibetan Buddhist guy

940
00:49:29,196 --> 00:49:31,956
Speaker 2: giving the lecture at your university, the one thing university

941
00:49:31,996 --> 00:49:34,076
Speaker 2: couldn't give you, but it wasn't supposed to give you,

942
00:49:34,276 --> 00:49:35,036
Speaker 2: but it somehow did.

943
00:49:35,196 --> 00:49:38,116
Speaker 5: It did that, you know, and it's so It's so brilliant.

944
00:49:38,276 --> 00:49:43,596
Speaker 5: And what I love about life is that you realize

945
00:49:43,676 --> 00:49:44,396
Speaker 5: you're given.

946
00:49:45,396 --> 00:49:45,556
Speaker 1: Oh.

947
00:49:45,636 --> 00:49:48,756
Speaker 5: I feel I've been given these little markers along the way,

948
00:49:48,796 --> 00:49:51,076
Speaker 5: and they could be they could be the parents of

949
00:49:51,116 --> 00:49:53,756
Speaker 5: a friend when you're growing up, who were the only

950
00:49:53,796 --> 00:49:56,956
Speaker 5: bohemian couple that you knew who he was a writer

951
00:49:57,036 --> 00:49:59,676
Speaker 5: and an artist and you you're going their house, and

952
00:49:59,716 --> 00:50:01,316
Speaker 5: it was just like, oh my god, it can be

953
00:50:01,396 --> 00:50:04,316
Speaker 5: like this family can be like this. So we're given

954
00:50:04,356 --> 00:50:08,236
Speaker 5: all these little things. And yeah, like I said, I

955
00:50:08,796 --> 00:50:11,476
Speaker 5: really sense that the universe gives each of us what

956
00:50:11,516 --> 00:50:15,836
Speaker 5: we this, the circumstances. Well, certainly given me the circumstances

957
00:50:15,836 --> 00:50:17,756
Speaker 5: in order to evolve and the things around me. It's

958
00:50:17,876 --> 00:50:21,236
Speaker 5: my it's my decision whether my eyes and ears are

959
00:50:21,236 --> 00:50:22,196
Speaker 5: open to that stuff.

960
00:50:22,796 --> 00:50:25,676
Speaker 2: Amazing you brought up Brazil, so we should maybe go

961
00:50:25,716 --> 00:50:28,396
Speaker 2: to but yeah, great. As I was listening to the

962
00:50:28,476 --> 00:50:30,956
Speaker 2: I was listening to the record without looking at the titles.

963
00:50:30,956 --> 00:50:32,356
Speaker 1: I was listening and I was like.

964
00:50:32,396 --> 00:50:33,956
Speaker 2: Man, it's not like I said, did you Is there

965
00:50:33,956 --> 00:50:35,196
Speaker 2: something Brazilian going on with this?

966
00:50:35,236 --> 00:50:37,396
Speaker 1: And I looked at the title. Yeah, there we go,

967
00:50:37,676 --> 00:50:38,316
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

968
00:50:38,876 --> 00:51:22,116
Speaker 10: Yeah.

969
00:51:23,236 --> 00:51:30,876
Speaker 3: Sunny days a Sunny Days, A Sunny Days a boy,

970
00:51:33,916 --> 00:51:38,236
Speaker 3: Sunny days, Sunny days, Sunny days a boy.

971
00:51:48,276 --> 00:51:49,436
Speaker 1: I said, that's got something.

972
00:52:05,196 --> 00:52:07,236
Speaker 11: Should love to ride the sun.

973
00:52:07,796 --> 00:52:10,836
Speaker 4: Serve me up from give you a ma me on.

974
00:52:16,036 --> 00:52:17,756
Speaker 12: Every day, sent.

975
00:52:17,516 --> 00:52:26,756
Speaker 7: Me singing heavenly excuse and so.

976
00:52:36,836 --> 00:53:00,236
Speaker 11: And so.

977
00:53:12,956 --> 00:53:32,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, forgive me for so many nice little so many

978
00:53:32,876 --> 00:53:34,076
Speaker 1: nice touches. Thank you.

979
00:53:35,316 --> 00:53:37,156
Speaker 5: It's nice to hear it on the big system atual.

980
00:53:37,156 --> 00:53:39,956
Speaker 5: I haven't heard it that loud with lots.

981
00:53:39,676 --> 00:53:43,436
Speaker 1: Of sub It's great. I love it.

982
00:53:43,436 --> 00:53:47,276
Speaker 2: It's the the the groove is subtle, right, and then

983
00:53:47,316 --> 00:53:50,996
Speaker 2: it opens up and it's just yeah, and it's it's

984
00:53:50,996 --> 00:53:53,436
Speaker 2: full on, you know, at that point it's done.

985
00:53:53,556 --> 00:53:54,116
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

986
00:53:54,156 --> 00:53:57,276
Speaker 2: And then all the nice little little synth that was

987
00:53:57,316 --> 00:53:57,756
Speaker 2: going on.

988
00:53:57,716 --> 00:54:03,916
Speaker 5: Right there and Selena strings rather yeh because yeah, and

989
00:54:03,916 --> 00:54:04,276
Speaker 5: who was.

990
00:54:04,276 --> 00:54:05,836
Speaker 2: That singing in the ka?

991
00:54:06,076 --> 00:54:09,196
Speaker 5: Okay, she's amazing. She's gonna be We're all gonna go

992
00:54:09,236 --> 00:54:12,116
Speaker 5: out on tour. Esca and Davey play guitar, and yeah,

993
00:54:12,156 --> 00:54:15,076
Speaker 5: she's she's just a beautiful singer.

994
00:54:15,236 --> 00:54:15,516
Speaker 1: Wow.

995
00:54:15,636 --> 00:54:17,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, when are you guys going out?

996
00:54:17,196 --> 00:54:20,316
Speaker 5: We're gonna go out in October in Europe and hopefully,

997
00:54:20,476 --> 00:54:24,076
Speaker 5: you know, you know, economics dependently, but we we've got

998
00:54:24,076 --> 00:54:26,236
Speaker 5: to come. I mean, having spent like two days in La,

999
00:54:26,316 --> 00:54:28,476
Speaker 5: I'm like, I want to come to La and play.

1000
00:54:28,196 --> 00:54:30,836
Speaker 1: This let's book it tonight.

1001
00:54:32,276 --> 00:54:33,836
Speaker 5: I want to a party and I want to get

1002
00:54:33,876 --> 00:54:35,516
Speaker 5: the vibe and you know, I feel like it'd be

1003
00:54:35,556 --> 00:54:37,996
Speaker 5: such a great place to come here, you know, the

1004
00:54:38,036 --> 00:54:40,956
Speaker 5: connections and you know, meeting people like yourself. It's like

1005
00:54:41,116 --> 00:54:45,116
Speaker 5: there's a there's a it feels like it's open. It's

1006
00:54:45,156 --> 00:54:47,156
Speaker 5: it's got the sadness, but it's got the joy in

1007
00:54:47,196 --> 00:54:47,796
Speaker 5: there as well.

1008
00:54:48,116 --> 00:54:50,796
Speaker 2: Well, not to get the real but it's interesting.

1009
00:54:50,836 --> 00:54:51,436
Speaker 1: There's a lot of.

1010
00:54:52,876 --> 00:54:56,636
Speaker 2: Bad will towards Los Angeles lately for some reason, and

1011
00:54:57,396 --> 00:54:59,356
Speaker 2: living here, I don't feel it, you know, So it's weird.

1012
00:54:59,396 --> 00:55:00,836
Speaker 2: I hear it a lot, you know, I hear it.

1013
00:55:00,876 --> 00:55:03,956
Speaker 1: Well, people love people get jeallessedty pretty great. They're jealous.

1014
00:55:03,956 --> 00:55:05,956
Speaker 1: People are leaving here though I don't know the alous

1015
00:55:05,956 --> 00:55:06,796
Speaker 1: see people.

1016
00:55:06,756 --> 00:55:10,716
Speaker 2: From here are leaving here? Wow or brogat? I mean

1017
00:55:11,316 --> 00:55:14,076
Speaker 2: did that come? Did that come from a visit to Brazil.

1018
00:55:14,196 --> 00:55:15,996
Speaker 2: You've mentioned spending some time there.

1019
00:55:16,076 --> 00:55:18,196
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in Brazil and

1020
00:55:18,236 --> 00:55:20,516
Speaker 5: I love Brazilian music, and we went to live there

1021
00:55:20,516 --> 00:55:22,956
Speaker 5: in my family. We went to live there for about

1022
00:55:22,996 --> 00:55:26,756
Speaker 5: six seven months a few years ago. It's always been

1023
00:55:26,836 --> 00:55:29,996
Speaker 5: there and for me, it's the whole thing about Brazil.

1024
00:55:30,036 --> 00:55:32,636
Speaker 5: It's the people, it's the land, it's the music, it's

1025
00:55:32,676 --> 00:55:37,156
Speaker 5: the soccer, it's the love, it's the spirituality, it's the dance.

1026
00:55:37,276 --> 00:55:40,396
Speaker 1: It's the and it's a tough place to live. You know,

1027
00:55:40,396 --> 00:55:41,236
Speaker 1: there's poverties.

1028
00:55:41,356 --> 00:55:44,036
Speaker 5: You know, they've got real problems, economic problems in terms

1029
00:55:44,036 --> 00:55:47,716
Speaker 5: of the division of wealth. But you know, Lula and

1030
00:55:47,756 --> 00:55:52,316
Speaker 5: Dilma and the Workers Party have done amazing things in

1031
00:55:52,476 --> 00:55:53,396
Speaker 5: the last twenty years.

1032
00:55:53,396 --> 00:55:57,356
Speaker 1: So there's an emerging middle class. There's it's just a

1033
00:55:57,396 --> 00:55:59,876
Speaker 1: beautiful it's it's funny. It's one of those things. Have

1034
00:55:59,916 --> 00:56:00,796
Speaker 1: you ever been to Brazil?

1035
00:56:00,876 --> 00:56:01,556
Speaker 10: I have not.

1036
00:56:01,716 --> 00:56:03,596
Speaker 1: It's on top of my life. Well you should go.

1037
00:56:03,676 --> 00:56:04,076
Speaker 1: It's good.

1038
00:56:04,156 --> 00:56:06,956
Speaker 5: I also what I love it. It feels like every

1039
00:56:07,036 --> 00:56:10,236
Speaker 5: color under the sun. You know, you've got Japanese community.

1040
00:56:10,276 --> 00:56:13,836
Speaker 5: They've lived there for one hundred years and they're Japanese,

1041
00:56:13,876 --> 00:56:17,556
Speaker 5: but they're Brazilian and it's it's got you know, it's

1042
00:56:17,596 --> 00:56:19,236
Speaker 5: it's just beautiful.

1043
00:56:19,316 --> 00:56:22,756
Speaker 2: And they deal with the different than the states in

1044
00:56:23,156 --> 00:56:26,476
Speaker 2: England in terms of the diversity is dealt with different.

1045
00:56:26,596 --> 00:56:29,116
Speaker 5: And I remember, like I had had a when I

1046
00:56:29,156 --> 00:56:31,196
Speaker 5: first went to Brazil with my wife in like two

1047
00:56:31,196 --> 00:56:32,716
Speaker 5: thousand and we have to be on the same flight

1048
00:56:32,756 --> 00:56:34,916
Speaker 5: as a couple of friends. And one of my friends,

1049
00:56:34,996 --> 00:56:38,156
Speaker 5: this guy called Trevor, he's you know, he's black, British

1050
00:56:38,236 --> 00:56:39,996
Speaker 5: and he'd never been to Brazil. None of us have

1051
00:56:40,076 --> 00:56:45,876
Speaker 5: been to Brazil. And we were staying in the rear

1052
00:56:45,916 --> 00:56:48,436
Speaker 5: and five days later we bumped into them on Ipanema

1053
00:56:48,996 --> 00:56:52,716
Speaker 5: and we went for a drink and and Trevor's really

1054
00:56:52,956 --> 00:56:55,716
Speaker 5: and I said, Trevor, how you finally said, He said,

1055
00:56:55,716 --> 00:56:58,316
Speaker 5: I feel comfortable in my skin. Finally said, you know,

1056
00:56:58,756 --> 00:57:01,556
Speaker 5: even in Britain, you know, I've grown up with this,

1057
00:57:01,796 --> 00:57:03,956
Speaker 5: you know, having to been very conscious of being black.

1058
00:57:04,276 --> 00:57:07,556
Speaker 5: He said, I come to Brazil, I'm home, you know. Well,

1059
00:57:07,596 --> 00:57:11,116
Speaker 5: and you know, Brazil took the most amount of slaves

1060
00:57:11,156 --> 00:57:14,996
Speaker 5: in West Africa by year. This incredible state which is

1061
00:57:15,076 --> 00:57:18,436
Speaker 5: kind of like my favorite place in Brazil is the

1062
00:57:18,476 --> 00:57:21,756
Speaker 5: Black State. You know, it's where they had the most slaves.

1063
00:57:21,796 --> 00:57:25,916
Speaker 5: And the music and the culture Candomblate it's like and

1064
00:57:26,036 --> 00:57:29,356
Speaker 5: what I love about it is you know that it's

1065
00:57:29,436 --> 00:57:33,316
Speaker 5: like it's just seemed the assimilation is just softer. And

1066
00:57:33,356 --> 00:57:35,996
Speaker 5: you know, obviously in America got You've had serious problems

1067
00:57:35,996 --> 00:57:38,516
Speaker 5: with that, and we did in Britain as well. You know,

1068
00:57:38,556 --> 00:57:42,276
Speaker 5: we were an empire, terrible empire, but Brazil, for whatever reason,

1069
00:57:42,476 --> 00:57:45,876
Speaker 5: and the Portuguese weren't great either, but it seems to

1070
00:57:45,956 --> 00:57:49,396
Speaker 5: be almost almost I don't know, it just seems to

1071
00:57:49,476 --> 00:57:52,556
Speaker 5: be a bit more of a melting pot, you know.

1072
00:57:52,636 --> 00:57:55,276
Speaker 5: And music there is you know, you've got this, you've

1073
00:57:55,316 --> 00:57:59,716
Speaker 5: got the you've got the rhythm of Africa and the spirit.

1074
00:57:59,796 --> 00:58:01,956
Speaker 5: But you've got some of the little melodies from European,

1075
00:58:01,996 --> 00:58:03,476
Speaker 5: from the Portuguese.

1076
00:58:03,556 --> 00:58:05,316
Speaker 1: Why do you have this which is so specific? It's

1077
00:58:05,316 --> 00:58:08,756
Speaker 1: such a specific flavor of melody. Yeah, that gives it this.

1078
00:58:09,236 --> 00:58:11,516
Speaker 5: And when you hear the samba like Carnival samba. Yeah,

1079
00:58:12,076 --> 00:58:15,716
Speaker 5: we went to Carnival in Brazil in Rio in twenty

1080
00:58:15,796 --> 00:58:18,676
Speaker 5: thirteen and you really get it there because they're very

1081
00:58:18,716 --> 00:58:21,716
Speaker 5: tight about the music. So the battery are the drums,

1082
00:58:21,756 --> 00:58:26,836
Speaker 5: it's all. I mean, it's West African, right, it's But

1083
00:58:26,916 --> 00:58:29,076
Speaker 5: then they've got these little kind of cavacchinos that they

1084
00:58:29,076 --> 00:58:31,756
Speaker 5: call these eight string kind of mandolins, and they're digging

1085
00:58:31,996 --> 00:58:34,636
Speaker 5: and they're really they're just like European kind of like

1086
00:58:35,036 --> 00:58:36,956
Speaker 5: they're like almost fard s kind of.

1087
00:58:37,156 --> 00:58:40,196
Speaker 1: It's like that high pitch. Yeah, but it's it's a

1088
00:58:40,236 --> 00:58:41,236
Speaker 1: heady brew.

1089
00:58:41,356 --> 00:58:44,996
Speaker 5: And like I mean, talk about trance music, ye, that

1090
00:58:45,196 --> 00:58:47,996
Speaker 5: is the first trance music you go to, you know,

1091
00:58:47,996 --> 00:58:50,756
Speaker 5: because Carnival runs some ten at night through to six

1092
00:58:50,796 --> 00:58:54,596
Speaker 5: in the morning and they're very specific. So samba has

1093
00:58:54,636 --> 00:58:57,796
Speaker 5: this very specific tempo and part of the battery you

1094
00:58:57,836 --> 00:59:01,516
Speaker 5: get the you get the rhythmic and the drums and stuff,

1095
00:59:01,556 --> 00:59:04,436
Speaker 5: but underpinning it these big bass drums and they go boom,

1096
00:59:04,596 --> 00:59:08,436
Speaker 5: boom boom, and that's the tempo with all six samba

1097
00:59:08,476 --> 00:59:10,676
Speaker 5: schools each night. It's over two nights and twelve sums

1098
00:59:11,156 --> 00:59:13,036
Speaker 5: and you go to you go to bed at seven

1099
00:59:13,076 --> 00:59:13,516
Speaker 5: the morning and.

1100
00:59:13,596 --> 00:59:17,836
Speaker 1: Just boom boom. It's like it's and it's it's incredible.

1101
00:59:17,956 --> 00:59:18,636
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

1102
00:59:18,636 --> 00:59:21,036
Speaker 5: You get into the state and then and then and

1103
00:59:21,076 --> 00:59:23,796
Speaker 5: the rhythm is like these poly rhythms and it's just that,

1104
00:59:24,356 --> 00:59:28,356
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like rhythmic jazz and and what's so

1105
00:59:28,396 --> 00:59:30,916
Speaker 5: amazing is like the battery will do some kind of

1106
00:59:30,996 --> 00:59:34,836
Speaker 5: rhythmic polyrhythmic move and not only the musicians get it,

1107
00:59:34,876 --> 00:59:38,356
Speaker 5: but the whole the whole audience because they're so savvy,

1108
00:59:38,396 --> 00:59:40,636
Speaker 5: they go yeah, and you can hear the cheers and there,

1109
00:59:40,636 --> 00:59:43,836
Speaker 5: and as a British man, I'm like, well it sounds good,

1110
00:59:43,876 --> 00:59:48,636
Speaker 5: but I didn't understand that significant moment and they and

1111
00:59:48,676 --> 00:59:51,916
Speaker 5: they all go, yeah, it's amazing. It's just such an

1112
00:59:51,956 --> 00:59:52,876
Speaker 5: extraordinary country.

1113
00:59:53,036 --> 00:59:54,956
Speaker 1: A man, I love that. I can't wait to go.

1114
00:59:55,356 --> 00:59:57,876
Speaker 1: The music is just it's unbelievable. It's next level. Right.

1115
00:59:57,956 --> 01:00:00,676
Speaker 2: Speaking of there's that famous Quincy John's interviewers I'm on

1116
01:00:00,756 --> 01:00:01,676
Speaker 2: him earlier.

1117
01:00:01,716 --> 01:00:04,516
Speaker 1: He interjects about something wild and.

1118
01:00:04,476 --> 01:00:09,356
Speaker 2: He got an interviewer, You like Brazilian music, Yeah, and

1119
01:00:09,396 --> 01:00:11,796
Speaker 2: it's like so funny, but also at the same time like, yeah,

1120
01:00:11,836 --> 01:00:12,636
Speaker 2: quin see, that's right.

1121
01:00:13,236 --> 01:00:15,356
Speaker 1: Just tell everyone because that's it's some of the best

1122
01:00:15,436 --> 01:00:17,236
Speaker 1: music in the world. It's unbelievable.

1123
01:00:17,676 --> 01:00:19,876
Speaker 5: And like those composers and go back to Joe Beim

1124
01:00:19,996 --> 01:00:22,116
Speaker 5: and all those yeah, I mean what they were doing

1125
01:00:22,116 --> 01:00:24,956
Speaker 5: and then taking the beauty and the subtleness of some

1126
01:00:25,196 --> 01:00:28,956
Speaker 5: but it's all in there. So yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1127
01:00:28,436 --> 01:00:31,036
Speaker 2: Tell me about the you know, recording four three, tell

1128
01:00:31,076 --> 01:00:32,316
Speaker 2: me if you know anything about it.

1129
01:00:32,876 --> 01:00:36,636
Speaker 5: Minimal so standard tuning, our student. Our tuning has been

1130
01:00:36,676 --> 01:00:39,716
Speaker 5: standardized since the end of the nineteen thirties. Middle A

1131
01:00:39,916 --> 01:00:43,156
Speaker 5: equals four hundred and forty hertz, so you get a

1132
01:00:43,196 --> 01:00:43,956
Speaker 5: tune of that's.

1133
01:00:43,796 --> 01:00:47,716
Speaker 1: How eight middle A being right next to middle C. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

1134
01:00:47,836 --> 01:00:49,356
Speaker 1: So middle A is four forty hurts.

1135
01:00:49,836 --> 01:00:53,636
Speaker 5: There is a whole music used to fluctuate a bit

1136
01:00:53,636 --> 01:00:58,516
Speaker 5: more because they didn't have tuners, and there's a whole

1137
01:00:58,876 --> 01:01:02,116
Speaker 5: I've been on this journey now for about fourteen years,

1138
01:01:02,796 --> 01:01:05,956
Speaker 5: and there's this whole. There was this whole school of

1139
01:01:05,996 --> 01:01:08,516
Speaker 5: thought that a lot of old music up until the

1140
01:01:08,716 --> 01:01:13,436
Speaker 5: nineties Entry was played and obviously composed at four three

1141
01:01:13,476 --> 01:01:15,916
Speaker 5: to two hurts, and the idea being is that it's

1142
01:01:15,996 --> 01:01:20,836
Speaker 5: more whole. And there's this have you heard of cymatics

1143
01:01:20,876 --> 01:01:26,076
Speaker 5: where they blow they blow frequencies sound waves at sand

1144
01:01:26,116 --> 01:01:30,996
Speaker 5: and they form patterns. Now four forty hurts, it's kind

1145
01:01:31,036 --> 01:01:35,316
Speaker 5: of frazzled at four to three to two hurts, perfect

1146
01:01:35,396 --> 01:01:36,516
Speaker 5: geometric patterns.

1147
01:01:36,956 --> 01:01:37,396
Speaker 1: Wow.

1148
01:01:37,476 --> 01:01:41,316
Speaker 5: So that given, that's what it's doing to your cells

1149
01:01:41,316 --> 01:01:45,716
Speaker 5: and your body. So I'm really interested in that idea

1150
01:01:45,996 --> 01:01:50,436
Speaker 5: of music. Doesn't it's not just it's not just nice

1151
01:01:50,476 --> 01:01:53,276
Speaker 5: on the year. There's something that goes on on a

1152
01:01:53,356 --> 01:01:56,796
Speaker 5: sort of cellular deeper level. And there was really I

1153
01:01:56,836 --> 01:01:58,676
Speaker 5: did an interview with Rolling Stone the other week and

1154
01:01:59,276 --> 01:02:01,716
Speaker 5: James Blake has gone I think he's gone four three

1155
01:02:01,796 --> 01:02:04,876
Speaker 5: two Ziggy Marley, there's a whole movement. Its Sheebecca Hutchings,

1156
01:02:04,916 --> 01:02:07,556
Speaker 5: who played on this record. I had a conversation with

1157
01:02:07,636 --> 01:02:09,476
Speaker 5: him about the reason he came and played on record,

1158
01:02:09,476 --> 01:02:12,036
Speaker 5: as I had a conversation about four three two, and

1159
01:02:12,036 --> 01:02:13,876
Speaker 5: I think people a lot of people opening up to it,

1160
01:02:13,916 --> 01:02:18,196
Speaker 5: and for me, I feel it makes the music more whole.

1161
01:02:18,276 --> 01:02:20,436
Speaker 5: Now a lot of people go, oh, you know, you're

1162
01:02:20,436 --> 01:02:23,676
Speaker 5: full of what do you know? But I feel it,

1163
01:02:24,236 --> 01:02:27,236
Speaker 5: and so I think it's I was really keen. I'm

1164
01:02:27,276 --> 01:02:28,436
Speaker 5: really keen to really.

1165
01:02:28,276 --> 01:02:28,676
Speaker 1: Go for it.

1166
01:02:28,716 --> 01:02:30,996
Speaker 5: So I it's easy for a guitar to be four

1167
01:02:31,036 --> 01:02:34,756
Speaker 5: three two hurts, but a keyboard, you know, piano, So

1168
01:02:34,956 --> 01:02:38,156
Speaker 5: I committed to it. I had our piano tune to

1169
01:02:38,156 --> 01:02:40,756
Speaker 5: four three two. I've got Rhoades tuned to four three two.

1170
01:02:41,076 --> 01:02:44,956
Speaker 5: I'm gonna experiment. Actually four four four slightly sharper, but

1171
01:02:45,996 --> 01:02:47,116
Speaker 5: I'm really interested in.

1172
01:02:48,196 --> 01:02:49,996
Speaker 1: It's a lot of class calls at like four four

1173
01:02:49,996 --> 01:02:52,196
Speaker 1: four two two concert pitches four four two.

1174
01:02:52,756 --> 01:02:56,236
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I'm really interested in just like it used

1175
01:02:56,276 --> 01:02:58,516
Speaker 5: to be varied, and I don't I don't like things

1176
01:02:58,516 --> 01:03:00,996
Speaker 5: when they get locked in and standardized. It's like this

1177
01:03:01,196 --> 01:03:04,156
Speaker 5: is the rule a must equals four forty hurts, And

1178
01:03:04,196 --> 01:03:06,276
Speaker 5: it's great because it's a bit of a rabbit hole.

1179
01:03:06,316 --> 01:03:09,956
Speaker 5: But there's some very interesting theories about this. You know,

1180
01:03:10,356 --> 01:03:13,116
Speaker 5: there's this whole thing how the nazis standardized tuning at

1181
01:03:13,116 --> 01:03:13,636
Speaker 5: four forty.

1182
01:03:13,996 --> 01:03:14,996
Speaker 1: There's all this stuff.

1183
01:03:15,436 --> 01:03:17,636
Speaker 5: I don't know because you know, like any information, at

1184
01:03:17,636 --> 01:03:19,276
Speaker 5: the moment, you don't know whether it's two or not.

1185
01:03:20,196 --> 01:03:21,756
Speaker 5: But you just got to go and what you feel.

1186
01:03:22,156 --> 01:03:24,956
Speaker 5: And also there is some science behind it.

1187
01:03:25,236 --> 01:03:28,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's just the music, but you you kind

1188
01:03:28,156 --> 01:03:30,596
Speaker 2: of feel something good under this and it could just

1189
01:03:30,636 --> 01:03:31,516
Speaker 2: be the music.

1190
01:03:31,716 --> 01:03:34,356
Speaker 5: But maybe everything some of the tune, it's everything, and

1191
01:03:34,636 --> 01:03:36,756
Speaker 5: I think it's everything. And it's interesting because a lot

1192
01:03:36,796 --> 01:03:38,876
Speaker 5: of people have said, oh, yeah, I put the record

1193
01:03:38,916 --> 01:03:40,636
Speaker 5: on me. It sort of makes me feel calm, and

1194
01:03:40,676 --> 01:03:43,956
Speaker 5: that's what four three two does. It's more whole. And

1195
01:03:44,076 --> 01:03:48,676
Speaker 5: remember we are all frequencies, you know, we everything in

1196
01:03:48,716 --> 01:03:52,276
Speaker 5: this room, all of us. We're frequency. The future medicine

1197
01:03:52,396 --> 01:03:56,516
Speaker 5: will be frequential healing. That illness that you have, is

1198
01:03:56,996 --> 01:04:00,156
Speaker 5: that flu you have is a certain frequency, so you know,

1199
01:04:00,276 --> 01:04:02,636
Speaker 5: like homeopathy, you match it with another frequency, the same

1200
01:04:02,676 --> 01:04:06,356
Speaker 5: frequency and knock it out. So we are all frequencies.

1201
01:04:06,396 --> 01:04:07,956
Speaker 5: So there's science in there.

1202
01:04:09,156 --> 01:04:11,596
Speaker 2: Wow, I'm gonna I'm gonna do a deep dive.

1203
01:04:12,036 --> 01:04:13,116
Speaker 1: I'm going to do a deep dive on it.

1204
01:04:13,116 --> 01:04:13,236
Speaker 3: Now.

1205
01:04:13,236 --> 01:04:17,996
Speaker 2: I feel like I could change my whole life. After

1206
01:04:18,036 --> 01:04:24,556
Speaker 2: a break, we'll be back with more from Ed O'Brien's

1207
01:04:24,556 --> 01:04:26,796
Speaker 2: A couple of random last questions I always wanted to ask,

1208
01:04:26,836 --> 01:04:28,876
Speaker 2: And I don't know this may maybe maybe this is uh,

1209
01:04:29,556 --> 01:04:31,956
Speaker 2: but it gets on your bad side. The Pretty Things

1210
01:04:32,956 --> 01:04:38,196
Speaker 2: in the Square and Paranoid Android. Ever heard the similarities

1211
01:04:38,196 --> 01:04:40,436
Speaker 2: between the two, No, I was always just curious, can

1212
01:04:40,436 --> 01:04:41,276
Speaker 2: I play the Pretty Show?

1213
01:04:42,636 --> 01:04:45,356
Speaker 1: Cut it if it gets No, I'm curious the people

1214
01:04:45,396 --> 01:04:47,196
Speaker 1: think it's some kind of lift. Well, I don't know.

1215
01:04:47,196 --> 01:04:49,276
Speaker 1: I've always just kind of heard it though. That's interesting,

1216
01:04:49,436 --> 01:04:49,956
Speaker 1: not a limt.

1217
01:04:50,596 --> 01:04:53,396
Speaker 5: I'll be completely honest, obviously if if we were influenced,

1218
01:04:53,396 --> 01:04:54,796
Speaker 5: but well maybe I wouldn't.

1219
01:04:55,156 --> 01:04:57,116
Speaker 1: Maybe you won't. I don't know. We can cut it

1220
01:04:57,156 --> 01:04:59,876
Speaker 1: if you quick don't mention the Pretty Things. Yeah, no,

1221
01:04:59,956 --> 01:05:02,276
Speaker 1: I've never heard the Pretty Thing. Have you heard that heard?

1222
01:05:02,356 --> 01:05:04,316
Speaker 1: Have you heard that parachute it came out?

1223
01:05:04,516 --> 01:05:07,076
Speaker 5: No, I've never I don't even know The Pretty Things.

1224
01:05:07,476 --> 01:05:10,276
Speaker 5: It's just really good, real good album. There's this song

1225
01:05:10,316 --> 01:05:12,716
Speaker 5: on it and they have like a bit of a

1226
01:05:12,796 --> 01:05:13,356
Speaker 5: the top of.

1227
01:05:13,316 --> 01:05:15,036
Speaker 2: Them, after like the second song, they do a bit

1228
01:05:15,076 --> 01:05:17,836
Speaker 2: of like a like a medley Abbey Road style kind

1229
01:05:17,876 --> 01:05:18,236
Speaker 2: of medley.

1230
01:05:18,236 --> 01:05:19,236
Speaker 1: But at the top of the album.

1231
01:05:19,276 --> 01:05:33,956
Speaker 12: This is one of the one of them in this.

1232
01:05:39,516 --> 01:05:40,716
Speaker 11: She came running.

1233
01:05:41,396 --> 01:05:42,276
Speaker 6: I was lucky.

1234
01:05:46,356 --> 01:05:48,076
Speaker 1: It's good. Itsn't it's nice.

1235
01:05:48,236 --> 01:05:49,196
Speaker 4: Kind of that era.

1236
01:05:51,516 --> 01:05:54,036
Speaker 1: It was like in Melody Make or something.

1237
01:05:54,036 --> 01:05:57,236
Speaker 2: It was like right behind let it Be or something

1238
01:05:57,276 --> 01:05:59,596
Speaker 2: for this like it was number two for the Album

1239
01:05:59,596 --> 01:06:01,036
Speaker 2: of the Year left or.

1240
01:06:00,996 --> 01:06:03,116
Speaker 1: Something, but kind of got lots of time. Yeah, I

1241
01:06:03,396 --> 01:06:15,836
Speaker 1: know this this. Oh wow, see we go major. There,

1242
01:06:16,036 --> 01:06:19,836
Speaker 1: that's minor. Okay, wow, there's a switch.

1243
01:06:20,036 --> 01:06:20,836
Speaker 4: Okay, you got mad.

1244
01:06:21,836 --> 01:06:26,236
Speaker 5: Yeah, they stay minor. So there's G minor f over

1245
01:06:27,316 --> 01:06:30,476
Speaker 5: you know, G minor. Then we go major E major.

1246
01:06:30,556 --> 01:06:34,516
Speaker 5: That stays at E minor. I think, you know, wow, okay,

1247
01:06:34,596 --> 01:06:44,916
Speaker 5: that's they got They got me Tom, Yeah, no, I

1248
01:06:44,916 --> 01:06:48,236
Speaker 5: mean you know. But also I think I remember when

1249
01:06:48,236 --> 01:06:50,796
Speaker 5: I first heard that when you know, you know, we

1250
01:06:51,036 --> 01:06:53,516
Speaker 5: in the rehearsal student Tom sort of brought that in

1251
01:06:53,596 --> 01:06:59,356
Speaker 5: and I think that was It's very Morricone called change

1252
01:06:59,356 --> 01:07:01,316
Speaker 5: as well, Like we were listening to a lot of Morricone,

1253
01:07:01,956 --> 01:07:05,356
Speaker 5: So I think what I loved about when he brought

1254
01:07:05,396 --> 01:07:09,116
Speaker 5: that and was suddenly like that song and that actually

1255
01:07:09,316 --> 01:07:13,836
Speaker 5: those chords, all all of them, because they were very Latin,

1256
01:07:14,516 --> 01:07:15,636
Speaker 5: they felt very Latin.

1257
01:07:15,756 --> 01:07:19,876
Speaker 1: It's suddenly we went, we went more widescreen. Wow.

1258
01:07:20,076 --> 01:07:23,516
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's well, that's really interesting. Yeah, I'm gonna check.

1259
01:07:25,196 --> 01:07:26,516
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad you heard it too.

1260
01:07:26,796 --> 01:07:30,196
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I'm going it's the same step

1261
01:07:30,276 --> 01:07:31,996
Speaker 5: down and you know, it's the it is the G

1262
01:07:32,196 --> 01:07:34,236
Speaker 5: minor with the F over the GM, you know.

1263
01:07:34,316 --> 01:07:37,196
Speaker 1: But I mean yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure it's all Wow.

1264
01:07:37,356 --> 01:07:42,556
Speaker 2: Okay, I've revisited Hail of the Thief a lot the

1265
01:07:42,636 --> 01:07:46,636
Speaker 2: last three years, you know, like a lot. Yeah, it

1266
01:07:46,676 --> 01:07:50,356
Speaker 2: feels like it has its own mm hmm. I mean

1267
01:07:50,516 --> 01:07:53,556
Speaker 2: every album sort of does, even kid A and Amnesiac,

1268
01:07:53,676 --> 01:07:56,556
Speaker 2: even though I know they get groups together quite a bit,

1269
01:07:56,676 --> 01:08:00,356
Speaker 2: have a distinct feel. But there's something really about Hailed

1270
01:08:00,396 --> 01:08:03,996
Speaker 2: the Thief that feels somehow like a like a like

1271
01:08:04,036 --> 01:08:08,876
Speaker 2: the perfect balance of everything that came before it.

1272
01:08:09,116 --> 01:08:09,316
Speaker 3: Wow.

1273
01:08:09,396 --> 01:08:13,076
Speaker 1: That's yeah, yeah, I done or feel that. Well. It's interesting.

1274
01:08:13,476 --> 01:08:17,636
Speaker 5: So that is interesting because that was Hail to the

1275
01:08:17,716 --> 01:08:22,636
Speaker 5: Thief was a response to when we made kid A

1276
01:08:22,716 --> 01:08:26,076
Speaker 5: and amnize. Those songs were largely conceived in the studio

1277
01:08:26,116 --> 01:08:28,316
Speaker 5: and we learned how to play them out on the road,

1278
01:08:28,396 --> 01:08:31,516
Speaker 5: and we felt like we were bringing life. So that

1279
01:08:31,756 --> 01:08:36,836
Speaker 5: tour for kid A was obviously playing stuff from Okay

1280
01:08:36,876 --> 01:08:41,036
Speaker 5: Computer in the Bends, but also interpreting the stuff from

1281
01:08:41,116 --> 01:08:43,316
Speaker 5: kid A and I think it was the first time

1282
01:08:43,356 --> 01:08:46,116
Speaker 5: that we again we had to expand our kind of

1283
01:08:47,236 --> 01:08:51,236
Speaker 5: our palette in terms of, you know, how we got

1284
01:08:51,276 --> 01:08:53,636
Speaker 5: those songs, how we did those songs on kid A

1285
01:08:53,756 --> 01:08:56,396
Speaker 5: and Amnesic live, right, And I think you're right that

1286
01:08:56,516 --> 01:08:58,276
Speaker 5: it's true that and come and think of it. So

1287
01:08:58,316 --> 01:09:00,516
Speaker 5: we were excited by the way we changed as a

1288
01:09:00,516 --> 01:09:03,676
Speaker 5: life band. Making those two albums changed us. We had

1289
01:09:03,676 --> 01:09:07,316
Speaker 5: to we had to bring in more stuff, and I

1290
01:09:07,356 --> 01:09:11,476
Speaker 5: think hell to the was we didn't want to go

1291
01:09:11,596 --> 01:09:14,156
Speaker 5: back into the studio for a really long time. We

1292
01:09:14,236 --> 01:09:16,436
Speaker 5: just didn't want to go through that intense period that

1293
01:09:16,476 --> 01:09:18,836
Speaker 5: kid A and Amnisic was, so we were sort of

1294
01:09:20,076 --> 01:09:23,796
Speaker 5: letting go a bit more and just doing what we

1295
01:09:23,796 --> 01:09:26,956
Speaker 5: were doing live. So yeah, that's that's that's a good point. Yeah,

1296
01:09:26,956 --> 01:09:27,836
Speaker 5: I think you're right there.

1297
01:09:28,036 --> 01:09:30,516
Speaker 1: So kid A and Amnesiac did feel a little.

1298
01:09:30,676 --> 01:09:33,836
Speaker 2: It felt intense in that it wasn't you weren't, Yes,

1299
01:09:33,996 --> 01:09:37,076
Speaker 2: it was it was it was It wasn't the band

1300
01:09:37,116 --> 01:09:38,316
Speaker 2: in its natural state.

1301
01:09:38,516 --> 01:09:41,116
Speaker 5: Exactly, No, completely, and it was forcing. It was like

1302
01:09:41,156 --> 01:09:43,036
Speaker 5: an article. It was very much a Bowie thing. It's like,

1303
01:09:43,076 --> 01:09:45,556
Speaker 5: we're going to change tack here, and this is the

1304
01:09:45,636 --> 01:09:47,996
Speaker 5: kind of music where we didn't know exactly what it

1305
01:09:47,996 --> 01:09:50,316
Speaker 5: would be like. But Tom was like, I'm done with

1306
01:09:50,436 --> 01:09:57,116
Speaker 5: melody and more rhythm and more textures because you can't

1307
01:09:57,156 --> 01:09:59,556
Speaker 5: force those things on. They have to sound natural. But

1308
01:10:00,436 --> 01:10:03,236
Speaker 5: it wasn't the natural state of the band. We were

1309
01:10:03,236 --> 01:10:05,396
Speaker 5: becoming something else. And there was a lot of stuff

1310
01:10:05,396 --> 01:10:08,276
Speaker 5: on that was played as a band, but it was

1311
01:10:08,796 --> 01:10:11,076
Speaker 5: Jack's to pose with a lot of stuff that we

1312
01:10:11,076 --> 01:10:15,916
Speaker 5: were stretching out, using different instruments and different types of

1313
01:10:15,956 --> 01:10:18,876
Speaker 5: songs and samples and all sorts.

1314
01:10:18,716 --> 01:10:22,036
Speaker 2: It's still a hell of a catalog. It's like, I

1315
01:10:22,036 --> 01:10:23,796
Speaker 2: mean to contend with that. You go, but you know,

1316
01:10:24,356 --> 01:10:25,756
Speaker 2: I'll go away from it for a long time and

1317
01:10:25,756 --> 01:10:27,356
Speaker 2: I come back it's like I'm still there.

1318
01:10:27,556 --> 01:10:27,756
Speaker 3: You know.

1319
01:10:27,836 --> 01:10:30,356
Speaker 5: It's one of the funny things about because we did

1320
01:10:30,356 --> 01:10:34,276
Speaker 5: the shows last year and it might it might sound

1321
01:10:34,276 --> 01:10:37,716
Speaker 5: a bit weird this. But one of the really lovely

1322
01:10:37,796 --> 01:10:40,316
Speaker 5: things was in the process of it, Like when rehearsing,

1323
01:10:40,716 --> 01:10:45,076
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, these are really good songs in

1324
01:10:45,116 --> 01:10:47,836
Speaker 5: a way I appreciate them in a way that that

1325
01:10:47,996 --> 01:10:51,116
Speaker 5: I'd never appreciate them before because you were just doing it,

1326
01:10:51,556 --> 01:10:54,116
Speaker 5: but then you stop doing it. And also, I guess

1327
01:10:54,156 --> 01:10:56,116
Speaker 5: the other thing is that there was the first time

1328
01:10:56,156 --> 01:11:01,076
Speaker 5: that we weren't doing new material, So that whole thing

1329
01:11:01,196 --> 01:11:05,236
Speaker 5: was you could kind of really feel the songs in

1330
01:11:05,276 --> 01:11:10,876
Speaker 5: a way that we haven't before in terms of, you know,

1331
01:11:10,916 --> 01:11:14,836
Speaker 5: their eras of our life, but also the beauty of

1332
01:11:15,316 --> 01:11:17,196
Speaker 5: the songs and the and the beauty.

1333
01:11:16,916 --> 01:11:17,876
Speaker 1: Of the way we play them.

1334
01:11:18,116 --> 01:11:20,516
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was so that was really lovely, and

1335
01:11:21,156 --> 01:11:23,276
Speaker 5: I could really understand in a way, I could feel

1336
01:11:23,276 --> 01:11:26,956
Speaker 5: the emotions of the songs, like I could understand why.

1337
01:11:26,796 --> 01:11:30,716
Speaker 1: People liked us, which you know before you.

1338
01:11:30,676 --> 01:11:33,756
Speaker 5: Know, I wasn't shocked, but I didn't fully understand it,

1339
01:11:33,796 --> 01:11:35,796
Speaker 5: but I understood it. I was like, oh, yeah, these

1340
01:11:35,796 --> 01:11:39,156
Speaker 5: are and like you said, it's a really there's a

1341
01:11:39,196 --> 01:11:41,676
Speaker 5: lot of really good songs there, and and you can

1342
01:11:41,676 --> 01:11:44,436
Speaker 5: play you can have two sets of quite different material

1343
01:11:44,476 --> 01:11:50,236
Speaker 5: each night, and they're all pretty strong, So yeah, I think, yeah.

1344
01:11:50,036 --> 01:11:52,636
Speaker 1: It's it's a yeah, it's a good place to be.

1345
01:11:52,956 --> 01:11:54,596
Speaker 2: Do you think you guys were playing them different on

1346
01:11:54,636 --> 01:11:57,076
Speaker 2: this last stour or do you.

1347
01:11:57,156 --> 01:12:01,436
Speaker 5: Like yeah, I don't know. I don't It's it's funny

1348
01:12:01,476 --> 01:12:06,916
Speaker 5: because you don't want to get too slick with radio

1349
01:12:06,916 --> 01:12:10,036
Speaker 5: head songs. It's like you need to have some jeopardy.

1350
01:12:10,916 --> 01:12:14,836
Speaker 5: You need to feel like times it's gonna all fall

1351
01:12:14,916 --> 01:12:18,356
Speaker 5: over the edge, you know, And that's really good. We've

1352
01:12:18,356 --> 01:12:20,196
Speaker 5: because we've always had a but there's always been a

1353
01:12:21,156 --> 01:12:24,436
Speaker 5: slight kind of nail biting element to what we do

1354
01:12:24,996 --> 01:12:28,276
Speaker 5: because you know the place we've been. However, what's lovely

1355
01:12:28,316 --> 01:12:30,476
Speaker 5: is that we can play songs like Present Tense, which

1356
01:12:30,516 --> 01:12:32,956
Speaker 5: is essentially I've always loved it because it it feels

1357
01:12:32,956 --> 01:12:39,596
Speaker 5: like a Brazilian song off off off a moon shaped Paul.

1358
01:12:39,716 --> 01:12:42,236
Speaker 5: But what's so lovely is that we've now got there

1359
01:12:42,276 --> 01:12:45,636
Speaker 5: because there's one thing being edgy, and that's fine. There's

1360
01:12:45,636 --> 01:12:48,036
Speaker 5: one thing doing that and we could do that, but

1361
01:12:48,076 --> 01:12:51,636
Speaker 5: there's another thing, be able to play with softness, and

1362
01:12:52,316 --> 01:12:54,916
Speaker 5: I think we're able to do that now that you know,

1363
01:12:55,116 --> 01:12:58,196
Speaker 5: we're not panicking, we're appreciating and we're in a calmer place,

1364
01:12:58,236 --> 01:13:01,996
Speaker 5: and so that the songs that merit that, they, yeah,

1365
01:13:02,036 --> 01:13:04,836
Speaker 5: the ones that need that. We're reaching places that we've

1366
01:13:04,836 --> 01:13:06,756
Speaker 5: never reached before in those songs because they need you

1367
01:13:06,836 --> 01:13:10,956
Speaker 5: to sort of embody that that loose business and no tension,

1368
01:13:11,116 --> 01:13:12,356
Speaker 5: and you know what.

1369
01:13:12,676 --> 01:13:15,076
Speaker 1: Songs did feel like that for you. I feel like

1370
01:13:15,116 --> 01:13:16,036
Speaker 1: they need the.

1371
01:13:16,276 --> 01:13:20,716
Speaker 5: Like present tense. I mean, I think Pyramids song benefited.

1372
01:13:21,196 --> 01:13:23,876
Speaker 5: I think it's that thing of I think as you get,

1373
01:13:23,956 --> 01:13:26,676
Speaker 5: as you get older, you it's I guess it's a

1374
01:13:26,716 --> 01:13:29,316
Speaker 5: bit like being a method actor or something that you

1375
01:13:29,516 --> 01:13:31,796
Speaker 5: find the state that you need to be so a

1376
01:13:31,796 --> 01:13:33,396
Speaker 5: song likes it.

1377
01:13:34,076 --> 01:13:35,396
Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's a good question.

1378
01:13:35,436 --> 01:13:36,916
Speaker 5: I don't know quite the answer that, because I was

1379
01:13:36,956 --> 01:13:41,276
Speaker 5: just about to say, like off kDa National Anthem, which

1380
01:13:41,316 --> 01:13:44,836
Speaker 5: is already was and recorded really spiking, but the way

1381
01:13:44,876 --> 01:13:47,996
Speaker 5: we were playing it actually it wasn't it had an edge,

1382
01:13:47,996 --> 01:13:50,956
Speaker 5: but it it was just it becomes it becomes like

1383
01:13:50,996 --> 01:13:54,276
Speaker 5: a deeper beast, like the bass and the groove is deeper.

1384
01:13:54,316 --> 01:13:56,596
Speaker 5: And then and then when we go into the outro

1385
01:13:56,716 --> 01:13:58,796
Speaker 5: and it's just like you know, and I remember Tom

1386
01:13:58,996 --> 01:14:02,996
Speaker 5: started playing this kind of major seventh kind of lick

1387
01:14:03,196 --> 01:14:05,556
Speaker 5: and we're like, oh yeah, we're fucking in this place

1388
01:14:05,556 --> 01:14:08,796
Speaker 5: and it's like whoa. It's like, so yeah, I think

1389
01:14:09,996 --> 01:14:11,996
Speaker 5: I think we can get deeper in terms of a

1390
01:14:12,036 --> 01:14:14,316
Speaker 5: deeper groove, and we we you know, it's just like

1391
01:14:14,556 --> 01:14:18,076
Speaker 5: it's fatter. Wow, yeah, which is nice, which we weren't before.

1392
01:14:18,076 --> 01:14:20,116
Speaker 5: I always thought we were better. I always remember we were.

1393
01:14:21,316 --> 01:14:25,036
Speaker 5: I remember, I'm laughing when we played Coachella in twenty twelve.

1394
01:14:26,476 --> 01:14:29,276
Speaker 5: We headlined one night and we did it, and I

1395
01:14:29,356 --> 01:14:34,636
Speaker 5: stayed the next night for Drey and Snoop were doing

1396
01:14:34,636 --> 01:14:38,036
Speaker 5: their thing. And it was the year that the Tupac hologram.

1397
01:14:38,956 --> 01:14:43,756
Speaker 5: Yeah right, okay, so weird moment, you know, and I

1398
01:14:44,236 --> 01:14:45,716
Speaker 5: had some of those chocolate mushrooms.

1399
01:14:45,756 --> 01:14:46,516
Speaker 1: I stayed on.

1400
01:14:48,076 --> 01:14:51,316
Speaker 5: And you know, it's very lovely. I walked out. I was,

1401
01:14:51,516 --> 01:14:53,236
Speaker 5: I was, I was, you know, do you want to

1402
01:14:53,236 --> 01:14:54,716
Speaker 5: come and see us? Like, yeah, of course I do.

1403
01:14:54,836 --> 01:14:58,316
Speaker 5: It's like and I remember, like the first song ushering

1404
01:14:58,356 --> 01:15:01,596
Speaker 5: in the VIP thing. You stand, it's amazing. You walk

1405
01:15:01,716 --> 01:15:03,916
Speaker 5: in front of the bass bins, in front of the audience,

1406
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,636
Speaker 5: and you walk down the middle and you stand there

1407
01:15:05,636 --> 01:15:08,436
Speaker 5: and it's you know, and I remember watching that show

1408
01:15:08,516 --> 01:15:12,876
Speaker 5: and the and the sound, and I was just like, man, shit,

1409
01:15:13,236 --> 01:15:16,516
Speaker 5: this makes us look like a fucking string quartet.

1410
01:15:16,796 --> 01:15:17,036
Speaker 1: You know.

1411
01:15:17,796 --> 01:15:23,036
Speaker 5: And I think I think we've always longed, you know,

1412
01:15:23,116 --> 01:15:25,676
Speaker 5: it's we've always longed to have a bit of that

1413
01:15:25,836 --> 01:15:27,996
Speaker 5: West coast or what at that depth, that base.

1414
01:15:28,156 --> 01:15:31,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we not the weather, but it's

1415
01:15:32,036 --> 01:15:33,036
Speaker 1: work in progress.

1416
01:15:33,916 --> 01:15:35,756
Speaker 2: I think the next record you send it to Dre,

1417
01:15:36,316 --> 01:15:36,996
Speaker 2: get that missed?

1418
01:15:36,996 --> 01:15:39,356
Speaker 5: Do you know my dream when no kidding, This is

1419
01:15:39,356 --> 01:15:40,996
Speaker 5: the thing. I don't think I've ever said this. My

1420
01:15:41,156 --> 01:15:43,596
Speaker 5: dream was like on kid A. It was like that

1421
01:15:43,636 --> 01:15:47,036
Speaker 5: the year of reinvention. I was so into Dre as

1422
01:15:47,116 --> 01:15:50,436
Speaker 5: a like I loved everything he did. So we're talking

1423
01:15:50,476 --> 01:15:53,396
Speaker 5: two thousands and I remember No Diggity had just come

1424
01:15:53,396 --> 01:15:56,436
Speaker 5: out and I was just like, fuck, why don't how

1425
01:15:56,476 --> 01:15:58,596
Speaker 5: cool would it be for radio to work with Dr Dre.

1426
01:16:00,156 --> 01:16:02,676
Speaker 5: I would have loved that. I would have been a

1427
01:16:02,716 --> 01:16:03,556
Speaker 5: pig and shit.

1428
01:16:04,036 --> 01:16:06,116
Speaker 2: Man, that would have been incredible.

1429
01:16:06,236 --> 01:16:08,516
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know, I mean, you know, I'm not

1430
01:16:08,556 --> 01:16:11,036
Speaker 5: sure about I mean, he might not put up with us, and.

1431
01:16:12,436 --> 01:16:14,876
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It was just like

1432
01:16:15,036 --> 01:16:15,796
Speaker 1: it was just like.

1433
01:16:15,756 --> 01:16:18,636
Speaker 5: A dream in another world, in a parallel universe, we'd

1434
01:16:18,636 --> 01:16:21,076
Speaker 5: have gone in and done a record with Dre and

1435
01:16:21,076 --> 01:16:24,356
Speaker 5: and you know, because that's what Bowie would have done, right, Bowie,

1436
01:16:24,396 --> 01:16:26,156
Speaker 5: if he was at the same area, gone like because

1437
01:16:26,196 --> 01:16:28,476
Speaker 5: you know, you think about him when he did Young Americans. Yeah,

1438
01:16:28,556 --> 01:16:31,196
Speaker 5: he goes, I want that Philly sound. Yeah, well that

1439
01:16:31,316 --> 01:16:33,996
Speaker 5: equivalent for us would have been like, I want something

1440
01:16:34,036 --> 01:16:39,436
Speaker 5: like that West Coast, yeah, you know, and and juxtaposed

1441
01:16:39,476 --> 01:16:43,836
Speaker 5: that with our gnarly thingy whatever we did. Anyway, I

1442
01:16:43,916 --> 01:16:46,676
Speaker 5: just thought he could take because we we had Riffscalore

1443
01:16:47,356 --> 01:16:50,436
Speaker 5: and we had pockets and grooves Scalore that even if

1444
01:16:50,476 --> 01:16:52,596
Speaker 5: we didn't, you know, we we sent him a load

1445
01:16:52,596 --> 01:16:54,636
Speaker 5: of stuff. And you know, because he was always the

1446
01:16:54,636 --> 01:16:56,956
Speaker 5: best at sampling and what he did and right and

1447
01:16:56,996 --> 01:16:59,436
Speaker 5: taking what he did and used, and he.

1448
01:16:59,396 --> 01:17:01,516
Speaker 2: Would use live like he had live players.

1449
01:17:01,796 --> 01:17:02,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had his guys.

1450
01:17:02,556 --> 01:17:05,156
Speaker 2: He'd be like, exactly going to take this from Joe Corcker,

1451
01:17:05,196 --> 01:17:07,156
Speaker 2: but you're going to chop it like that.

1452
01:17:07,196 --> 01:17:10,236
Speaker 5: And I always felt like we had the potential to

1453
01:17:10,916 --> 01:17:15,636
Speaker 5: that someone. I was always delighted, like when anyone of

1454
01:17:15,756 --> 01:17:19,356
Speaker 5: that world sampled us, you know, really, oh just I

1455
01:17:19,396 --> 01:17:23,036
Speaker 5: loved it because that meant that, you know, it meant

1456
01:17:23,076 --> 01:17:25,796
Speaker 5: that you were. There was a bit of a groove

1457
01:17:25,876 --> 01:17:28,036
Speaker 5: to what you did. I mean, you know, we just

1458
01:17:28,996 --> 01:17:30,876
Speaker 5: that was so much of the music that we listened to,

1459
01:17:31,156 --> 01:17:31,356
Speaker 5: you know.

1460
01:17:31,836 --> 01:17:38,596
Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, maybe another lifetime if you like

1461
01:17:38,636 --> 01:17:40,796
Speaker 2: this one it is, it's one for another lifetime.

1462
01:17:40,836 --> 01:17:44,436
Speaker 5: It's another reincarnation with with Dray and another reincarnation.

1463
01:17:45,156 --> 01:17:45,716
Speaker 1: We'll dream it.

1464
01:17:45,716 --> 01:17:47,356
Speaker 2: We'll dream it.

1465
01:17:47,356 --> 01:17:50,316
Speaker 1: It was great talking love so much. Beautiful Records, Thank

1466
01:17:50,356 --> 01:17:50,836
Speaker 1: you so much.

1467
01:17:50,916 --> 01:17:52,316
Speaker 2: I'm glad we got to listen to some of it

1468
01:17:52,356 --> 01:17:54,836
Speaker 2: and talk. Yeah, thank you, beautiful thanks, justin thank you,

1469
01:17:54,876 --> 01:18:00,156
Speaker 2: beautiful Thanks. An episode description, you'll find a link to

1470
01:18:00,156 --> 01:18:02,436
Speaker 2: a playlist of our favorite songs from ed Olbrian and

1471
01:18:02,476 --> 01:18:04,756
Speaker 2: some of the other songs mentioned in this episode as well.

1472
01:18:05,516 --> 01:18:07,556
Speaker 2: We ture to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken

1473
01:18:07,636 --> 01:18:10,676
Speaker 2: Up a podcast to see all of our interviews, and

1474
01:18:10,756 --> 01:18:12,996
Speaker 2: be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken

1475
01:18:13,036 --> 01:18:16,036
Speaker 2: Record pot. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

1476
01:18:16,476 --> 01:18:18,796
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

1477
01:18:18,876 --> 01:18:22,076
Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

1478
01:18:22,196 --> 01:18:26,076
Speaker 2: is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.

1479
01:18:26,236 --> 01:18:28,676
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin consider

1480
01:18:28,716 --> 01:18:32,276
Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1481
01:18:32,356 --> 01:18:35,076
Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1482
01:18:35,236 --> 01:18:37,516
Speaker 2: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1483
01:18:37,556 --> 01:18:41,036
Speaker 2: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1484
01:18:41,076 --> 01:18:43,156
Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1485
01:18:43,476 --> 01:18:45,916
Speaker 2: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.