WEBVTT - Pigeons: Homing, Passenger, Carrier and Otherwise 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:13.240 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.400 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.920 That was not Jerry, And this is stuff you should know. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.840 I love that we have a new trend here of 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.640 starting our animal centric podcasts with impressions of that animal, 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.360 because you did your what I thought was a dolphin, 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.360 but it was a bad and I just did a pigeon, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.919 which that was a pretty good pigeon. Well, come on, 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.760 cool goes again. He just blew me away with your 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.440 pige in New York pigeon. Cool. I'm cooling here, Yeah, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.720 I'm going here. How's it going. I feel ashamed all 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.560 of the stuff. Uh, we've gotten a lot of requests 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:01.400 for um messenger pigeons we have over the years, and 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.000 you said I'm going to heed the call and put 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:09.240 together a nice little conglomerate of articles on it. And 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.039 I thought it was super interesting and a bit confusing 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.000 in terminology because as we will soon divulge, and I 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:22.440 guess we're about to messenger pigeons homing pigeons. Well no, 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.000 not really. Oh yeah, the same like a lot of 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.160 it is just right. I'm sorry for those. Are you 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.120 chose the two that are the same all the others 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.880 are different? Yeah, Homing pigeons and passenger peasants pigeons different, 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:44.120 different um. Carrier pigeons different than messenger pigeons, which is 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:49.280 very confusing. It's all just confusing. Well, it's clear through 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.360 the crud and the mare and the mock and get 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.320 to the differences between types of pigeons, because most people do. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.000 When you think of a carrier pigeon, chuck, you're probably 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.240 lumping together a bunch of different pigeons into the same category. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.960 And you would be right in a certain way, and 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.160 that most of the pigeons that we consider carrier pigeons 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.200 um are descended from rock pigeons. Yeah, we don't want 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.480 to be pigeon lumpers. No, all pigeons are different and 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.560 beautiful in their own way, that's right. Rock pigeons originally 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.120 named so from the rock dove I believe, which they 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.520 inhabited mountains and sea cliffs, and I think that's why 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:36.160 they were called rock sure, or they love poison. That'd 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.520 be glam rock pigeons hair rock hair. Rock pigeons glam rock. No, 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.200 not quite as glam rocks rock Glary Gary Glitter, Yeah, 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.560 and I think a little older like glam rock to 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.600 me was seventies. Hair rock was the eighties kind of 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.640 bastardization of glam rock. Not nearly as good as like 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.280 the New York Dolls. Let's say, sure, right, you know 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.160 who were way better than Gary Glitter as it turns 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.919 out in the end, that's right. Oh yeah, she's forgot 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.079 about that all right. Back to pigeons, we haven't even 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.880 started yet. They were all descended from rock pigeons, kind 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.120 of like do you remember a Thoroughbred horse Artum episode? 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.799 How can I forget? I love that one. Yeah, I 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.760 didn't like it that much because I was it was 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.880 dense for me. There's a lot of information there. The 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.080 difference between thoroughbred horses and pigeons is that there's not 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.960 that much information on pigeon legion lineages, despite the fact 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.960 that some people show them right. And this is where 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.800 we finally arrive at carrier pigeons. That's right, they are, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.840 as this article points out, fancy pigeons and their bred 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.400 to to to show their ornamental, very weird ways. Yeah, 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.720 they have what's on their nose. If you look up 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.400 a true carrier pigeon, you're gonna see a lot of 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.240 pictures of just homing pigeons. But look until you find 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.600 one that looks like it has a rotten walnut on 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.360 its Now it looks like it's pecked into a tara 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.040 toma and it's come out and just stuck around the 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:12.160 bird's beak. Yeah, that's called a wattle, sir, wattle to 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.800 two words, wattle dash sir, c E r E and um. 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.240 It is a fleshy thing on the bill, and they 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.800 do say it resembles the texture of a walnut, and 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.480 that's what it starts out as they get big and 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.880 even more gross looking. Yeah, and it's at the top 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.360 of the bill, which is when you see one, uh 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.840 carrier pigeon with just one of these wattles on top 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.559 of its beak, You're like, that's a little weird looking. 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.560 But I've seen birds with that little growth right there before. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.919 As they mature, these wattles start popping up all around 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:48.479 their beak and it's it's just growny, like they have 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.880 them beneath around the sides. It's gross. It's like a 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:56.680 bird only a passenger passenger lover, Fancier would love like 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.200 they love these things. But most people when they seem like, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.800 oh man, look at that right. Yeah, And if you're 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:06.719 showing carrier pigeons like the pigeons like great, amazing waddle, 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.360 is is something to be shown off and displayed. It's 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.039 like a point of pride among the show where or 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.279 not me, Bud Fancier, I say, cover that thing up. People, 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.279 by the way, who like just kidding, who like pigeons 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.560 and are into showing and raising and using pigeons for 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.000 fun um are called pigeon fanciers. By the way, Yeah, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.159 I just said that, Oh you did. Yeah, but I 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.400 didn't explain it. I just slipped it in. Okay, well, 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.800 wanting to explain it. Yeah, people are probably like, why 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.200 did Chuck just say Fancier? Who does he think he is? 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.400 What does he think he's the king in England? No, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.600 but the carrier pigeon is the king of pigeons. According 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.400 to fanciers, that was not bad. Uh. Pigeons were imported 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.760 to the US from Europe in eighteen sixty, and by 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.000 eighteen seventy two the first racing clubs were formed. Apparently 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:58.120 Philadelphia has or probably still do or had the largest 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.600 concentration of fanciers in the late eighteen hundreds, and um, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.240 racing pigeons is a really big deal. Still yeah. The 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.919 reason you can race pigeons is that rock pigeon descendants, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.920 whether they be carrier although I don't think I think 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.200 carrier is the least strong of all of them, but 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:20.640 especially homing and messenger pigeons, they're really fast and they 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.279 are capable of flying their way their way over very 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.560 long distances, that's right, And they find their way home 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.800 because they return in general to their nest to mate. 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.600 So this is why they return home. And we'll get 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.600 to how in a bit uh later, but like how 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.400 to train them to do that? Well, how to train 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.720 them in just how you know, science has figured out 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.720 that they do this, because it's pretty remarkable. Um. So 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.919 they fly around forty miles per hour on average, but 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.480 can reach his high sixty and apparently a hundred to 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.200 three hundred miles is just a walk in the park 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:01.080 for these guys and gals. Um, they have a record. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.000 I don't know if it's a documented record, but they've 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.840 verified that a homing pigeon named Charlie flew and fifty 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.640 miles from the UK to Brazil and he wasn't even 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.720 supposed to isn't that crazy? Yeah, apparently he was in 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.760 a race and um, I guess his nest was in 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.040 Brazil originally, and he figured it out and made his 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.280 way there to Brazil even though he was in a 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.800 local race at the time in England. And the nuts. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.800 It's pretty nuts. So apparently the racing pigeons and we 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.480 could do I mean, there's so much on racing pigeons 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:35.840 that we're not even gonna get to acide for mentioning it. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.760 But the racing homer is the specific type of pigeon 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.360 that is bred to race because the homer is the fastest, 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.120 which is ironic if you're a Simpsons fan. Oh yeah, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.000 because Homer is not a fast guy. Yeah, you know, no, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.600 he's really not. So. Homing pigeons are are bread specifically 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.760 to find their way home. I mean, they're good at 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.200 it anyway, like you said, but they select of we 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.200 breathe these things if you're going to be a fancier 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.920 to do so. And when you're when you're raising a 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.120 homing pigeon or something like that, basically what you're doing 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.280 is you're taking it to a place away from its home. Yeh, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.360 smack it on the head right with a little tiny 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.160 hammer so they wake up. Yeah, and uh no, don't 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.800 do that, no pigeon, if you're ever just kidding, don't 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.600 do that. Uh. And then you release it and it 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.040 will find its way back home, and you release it 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.360 at the same time as some other ones, and whicheveryone 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.920 finds its way home first is the winner. That's racing pigeons. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.840 But as you said, homing pigeons are really good at 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.440 finding their way home naturally, but over time they've been 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.400 selectively bread by humans to be the best of the 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.679 best at this, Like compared to their wild ancestors, they 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.760 make them look like utter poop. Yeah, just like your 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.800 basic rock pigeon. Yeah. Uh So let's talk a little 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.520 bit about the different theories on how they find their 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:59.320 way home. Um, there's some new findings and what they 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.120 generally think now is it could be a combination of 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:07.760 these things or like it seems like an everybody wins hypothesis. Yeah, basically, so, Um, 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.000 the sun could be one way that they find their 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.560 direction and just a general north south east west sort 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.280 of way when it's cloudy the Earth's magnetic field. Uh, 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.040 there's basically two different things going at work here. There's 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.880 a compass and then there's the map. And the compass 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.000 is just your sort of like just us. It's a 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.880 general header and the map is actually like where am 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.800 I now and where do I need to be? Yeah, well, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.240 I'm back in New York. I'm one street and I 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.760 need to get down to the lower east side. But 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.600 the compass part is like, so that I'm right now 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.560 facing north, which means I need to turn around a 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.199 little bit and go until I'm facing east. That's right, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.560 and using my map, I've figured this out. Yeah, this 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.240 one study I didn't follow up on it, the one 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.120 from Oxford that said they actually follow established roads at 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.040 some point. Do you know, did you look into that anymore? No, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.160 I didn't see that. I wonder if that was just 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.960 like a speculation and that's been overturned, or if they 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.920 really do follow. So the fact that that we didn't 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.840 run into that anywhere else makes me think like it's 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:14.040 probably been abandoned. It seemed from what I can understand 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.440 that the two main competing, long standing, competing explanations, where 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.960 like you said, they're following magnetic lines um in the 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:28.800 Earth's magnetosphere, or they're following smells, tiny odor molecules that 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.360 they used to basically as a trail of brig crumbs 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:36.040 to lead them back towards their roost, their nest um. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.320 And for a long time this was it was debated 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.960 whether this was the case or not. Um the fact 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.719 that they have such good compasses really lends a lot 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.400 of credibility to the idea that they can follow magnetic 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.719 lines and use those too to um orient themselves. And 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.120 there's actually this anecdote from the early eighties that really 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.480 lends a lot of support to the magnetic um theory, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.320 and that is there was this one pigeon that was 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:08.960 caught around a lake in Yellowstone. And by caught, I 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.360 mean like it was seen for I think a few weeks, 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.800 like just flying in circles around this lake, which is 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.480 not what a home and pigeon is supposed to do. No, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:21.480 they fly straight and purposeful toward home sure wherever they are. UM. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.280 So this this naturalist apparently where'd you find this article? 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.200 I'm not sure which one this was in? Uh, Audubon 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.120 Society was one, and uh, well, well, I mean we've 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.079 got them all posted on our website. Right, Okay, So, um, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.320 this naturalist who wrote this article that we're talking about, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.000 UM got ahold of this pigeon and he took it 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.640 and cared for it and took it away from the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:48.120 lake and released it. And the thing flew due east 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.559 and it was a North Carolina pigeon and it was 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.439 out in Yellowstone. So he said, you know what, this 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.679 lake area has a really weird magnetic magnetic field. It's 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.840 known for making compasses go hey wire. So this lends 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:05.040 a any decent amount of support to the magnetic line theory. Yeah, agreed, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.079 but it's been overturned recently or at least diminished as 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.760 far as um the smell theory, right, Well, I don't 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.080 know about overturned. I think again it's like everyone wins. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.280 I think from what I ended up with was that 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:22.080 they use all of these things when it's most beneficial, 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.240 like they'll use one. If it's like if the magnetic 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.600 field is not as strong, then they'll go to one 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.679 of the other tried and true methods like smell. Yes, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:36.559 smell was another one, and then recently UM sound, specifically infrasound, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.440 which are sound waves super low frequency that we can't 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.760 hear them. There's a geophysicist named John Hagstrom that cooked 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.760 up this idea, uh and published it in the Journal 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.760 of Experimental Biology, and he said, basically, he thinks that 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:56.360 they hear their way home, which you know, makes a 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.120 lot of sense. Yeah, And apparently this um that pigeon 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.520 back in the early piece that was around yellow Stone, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.520 that lake and Yellowstone that was having a hard time. Um. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.280 That phenomenon is called a release site bias. In some 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.320 places in the world, if you release a homing pigeon, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.080 they're gonna have a hard time finding their way home 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.319 or else they're gonna end up getting stuck flying around 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.000 in circles. And it's generally unexplained. So it's led to 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.559 this whole sub field of study of homing pigeon maps 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.359 and how they do this stuff. And um, this subsonic 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:35.960 sound theory basically says that they follow basically sound maps. Yeah, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.120 sort of like echo location is what it sounded like 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.600 to me with bats. Yeah, but they're just hearing. They're 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.040 not like creating a sound and listening for the echo. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.880 They're just listening out for the sound. But they're almost 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.040 listening out for sound in much the same way that 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.400 they would follow, say, odorant molecules like a trail of 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.520 brick crumbs. They're listening for familiar subsonic sounds as low 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.760 as point zero five hurts. Uh, And like you said, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.559 we create a sound map and um. He basically compared 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.440 it to the same thing that we see when we 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.000 look out with our eyeballs at something. Yeah, but they 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.120 can hear it, right, So they would like see their 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.880 home the way we see our home when we're driving 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.440 like up to it. Yeah, they hear their home and 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.040 they know which way to go toward it. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:23.680 if you could see what I hear? Have you ever 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.600 seen that movie? No? Is that a lifetime movie? It 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.440 could have been if there was Lifetime back then, but 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.600 it was the eighties movie. Was the guy that played 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:36.040 the beast Master. He played a very famous blind man 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.640 who was a piano player, and it was called If 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.080 You Could See What I Hear? So I think blind 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.080 people use sound in similar ways. Was it blind Tom 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:50.120 the uh, the Savant? I can't remember. He's sort of 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.080 like a piano player, playboy type. I just remember seeing 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.520 on cable when I was a kid, and I think 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.840 Mark singer was the guy. Yeah, but I can't remember 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.560 the real guy, but he was a real die. Did 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.280 you see or hear about the Lifetime movie that um 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.680 Kristen Wig and Will Ferrell made And no one can 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.560 figure out if it was like a piece of comedy 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.400 genius or else if they were like serious or what. Well, no, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.240 they figured it out. I mean they basically went to 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.400 make the movie and just said, let's just do this 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.760 as straight up as we can. But because it's us, 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.240 that'll just have that edge that you know, like Will 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.080 Ferrell being serious is one of the funniest things in 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.400 the world. So it was comedic genius. Well yeah, because 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.720 it's them. But they weren't like, let's try and make 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.840 this funny. They just said, let's do this as straight 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.320 as possible. I didn't know if like both of them 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.000 happened to have like a family member who needed surgery 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.560 at the same time, so they like signed on to 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.680 this project. It's pretty weird. Have you seen it? Yeah? Yeah, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.080 I saw it, and it's it is tough because they 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.520 are hysterical but it's so straight. It's like, I don't 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.840 know how to register this. This is like like the 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.640 Room or something like that Wow. Wow, that was just 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.320 a bad movie that ended up being hysterical. But this 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.880 isn't much the same. I gotta see this what the 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:04.800 room or no, the other one? You gotta see him 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.880 both what I've seen the room? Okay, what's the what's 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.520 the lifetime movie one called? I can't remember. I guess 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.160 if you just search Will Ferrell lifetime movie, it'll come up. 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:16.680 But there's a lot of weird things. He did that 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:21.080 Spanish language movie, and he did that the mini series. Uh, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.920 he takes chances. Good for him, he's in a position 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.080 to do so. H So I feel like this is 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.320 a pretty good time to take a break, don't you. Yes, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.760 and re gather ourselves. Yes, let's do that starting now, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.840 all right. So we everard basically how they find their 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.960 way home and the competing theories, and I think they 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.840 all just lived together in one big, happy family because 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.439 they haven't disproved the theories. The pigeons, Yeah, the pigeons 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.440 do too. They like each other, but I don't. I 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.480 don't think anyone has disproven anything. So at this point, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.760 I think they're taking all comers as far as those 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.920 theories go. Yeah. So, and this is um not specific too. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.840 Is it specific to homing pigeons, although it would include 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.600 messenger pigeons, wouldn't it because and carrier pigeons does it, 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.000 but not passenger pigeons. Okay, so they're all dead. The 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.359 only difference between a messenger pigeon and a homing pigeon 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.840 is that, Um, a messenger pigeon has something either a 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.160 two bonnuts leg or a little backpack that contains a message. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.439 I think the backpack is the new method, and they 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.000 used to do the tube on the leg. I think 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.760 the backpack is way cuter. Yeah, it's adorable. Backpack, you can. 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.600 What I can't figure out is a difference between a 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.919 messenger pigeon and a carrier pigeon. Okay, so here's a 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.200 carrier pigeon is not bread for flying, it's not bread 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.120 for its homing abilities. It's not bred to race, it's 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:15.600 not bread to send. It's basically, um, the Pekinese of pigeons. Okay, No, 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.639 I got I got it. I'm just picturing them in 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.520 my head, got you. So carrier is confusing me because 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.680 they're not They're not actually carrying anything. No, that is 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.639 why it's so confusing. Of all of them, they should 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.760 not have the word carrier attached. It should be like 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.800 virtually useless pigeon with the horrible wattle on its beach. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.760 That's the new car pigeon. Hammer to talk them on 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.680 the head. Now, that's homing pigeons. So carrier pigeons are 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.640 are for show. Got you. They're the best and show 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.919 of pigeons. So the homing pigeon is the one who 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.879 carries a message. Generally it's written on little tiny pieces 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.720 of thin. That's the messenger pigeon, which is a homing 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.040 pigeon that is carrying a message exactly. Yeah, that's where 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.320 we are, okay, but I mean it can get confusing. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:00.560 I'm sorry to act to you know what I mean 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.240 to be. No, I think I just said a messenger pigeon, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:08.800 didn't I I don't remember. Okay, let's through wine and listen. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.679 At any rate, the messenger pigeon is a homing pigeon 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.160 that carries a message, and they have been around for 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:23.240 a long time. Egypt, the Phoenicians romans. Uh Noah, yeah, 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:28.439 Noah in the in the Bible. He was the first dude. 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.560 I thought those were doves. But apparently I ran across 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.000 a comment on it that dove and pigeon were interchangeable 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.600 back then, back in old timey aramaic days. All right, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.439 well that makes sense. Apparently in ancient Rome when they 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.760 had chariot races that not just like a chariot race 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.760 in a stadium, but like a long chariot race over distance, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.880 they would send um the passenger. I'm sorry, man, here 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.760 we go the messenger pigeons back with the news of 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.080 who won. He right, so that I attached, you know, 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.600 brutus one, this one, go tell them everybody, and I 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.040 guess an hour later they would get there and everyone 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:11.880 would be too drunk to realize that they cared at 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.199 that point. Genghis Khan used them. He had like a 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.120 whole system set up. Oh yeah, we've never really talked 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.840 about him, have we? Yeah? We have. Did we do 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.440 an episode on that? Yeah? We did, Yeah, about whether 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.320 or they killed like a million people or something. And 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.359 I can't find that episode anywhere. I'm pretty sure recovered it. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.240 I felt like we did too. Jerry's nodding us or 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.160 either she's falling asleep in the way over and over again. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.119 Uh so, yeah, Genghis Khan had a whole system across 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.080 Asia and Europe like a relay system. Pretty impressive. Germans 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.720 used them actually attached little cameras through their bellies. That 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.080 was World War One. Yeah. So the modern use of 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.840 messenger pigeons uh in warfare was actually it seems to 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.000 be started by the French and went all the way 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.679 up through the Vietnam War. Yeah. So there's a like 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:08.880 the French love using messenger pigeons in a war like setting, right, um. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.800 And there was the Siege of Paris. The Prussians were 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.359 attacking Paris, and Paris was finally saved. There reinforcements thanks 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.440 to a group of carrier pigeons or messenger pigeons um 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:24.159 who got word that Paris was being was under siege 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.400 and uh they needed help, and help arrived and Paris 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.800 was saved. As I said, a few times Prussians were defeated, 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:36.200 and the pigeon was so beloved as a result that 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.600 the same guy who um created the Statue of Liberty 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.960 also created a tribute to pigeons that was that stood 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.120 in Paris up until warld boar World War two, when 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.919 they melted it down because they needed the medal. I 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.199 think so. So by the time World War one rolled around, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:59.000 pigeons were very much established as a very useful means 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:03.360 of communication when all else failed. Um in war. Yeah, 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.240 apparently they're so fast that they're hard to shoot down. Uh, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.199 and they get where they want to go. In the 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.200 case in France and uh, how do you pronounce it? 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.719 M A R and the Battle of the Marne, there 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.359 were seventy two pigeon lofts and as they advanced forward, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.600 they took the loss with them. A lot of the 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.280 pigeons that were out carrying messages, Uh, we're out when 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.040 they moved the loft were out when they moved the loss. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.879 And we're still able to find their lofts blind, not 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.760 knowing where these lofts ended up. Amazing, go pigeons. Uh, 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.560 there was there were laws passed during wartime. This one 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:43.919 Regulation twenty one A shooting homing pigeons, Killing, wounding or 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:49.000 molesting gross homing pigeons is punishable on the defense of 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:53.840 the realm regulations by six months imprisonment or one pounds fine. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.280 That's that's just a fine. In France, you could be 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:02.840 executed for impeding, uh messenger pigeons a wartime pigeon, and 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:07.080 there were also rewards offered five pound rewards, Uh for 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.240 any You know, if you turn in your your friend 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:16.600 for shooting a homing pigeon, get five pounds five pounds exactly. Yeah, 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.640 so it's a big, big deal. They were dogs, apparently 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.200 two and pigeons were used heavily in wartime to carry 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.960 messages like very reliably. Um, should we tell the story 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.639 of Sheremi? How can we not? I don't see how 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:37.119 we could. In World War One, you mentioned that the 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:43.200