1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Look, man, oh I see you. Why look over there? 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: How is that ulture? Yes, goodness dings, cultures calling and 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: we've got the shamps out? What is this celebrating over here? 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: What's in that little flute? They were breaking away that 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: I was gifted I don't know from whom I can't remember, 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: can't recall, but it's here for good occasions, and I 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: address this is absolutely an occasion to break out the way. 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: But it's dangerous for you to really not be able 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: to trace it back to the source, to be from 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: one of my enemies. It could be, it could be, 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: And then what, um, I don't think you have very 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: many enemies, Matt Rodgers. You know what's weird. I was 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: thinking about this the other day because I'm I'm reading 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: this book that our guests wrote. The undercurrents of it 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: are like, you know, wanting to be likable, like living 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: working in a position where you have to sort of 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: have a degree of likability. And I was like, I 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: wonder if people truly like, oh my goodness, I was 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: actually this kind of ran through my head. This is 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: an impossible question to answer. And then I understand the 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: end of the book and sort of the author of 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: of said book, and our guests today sort of arrived 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: at the same conclusion, and I sort of breathed a 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: sigh of recognition relief. Um at all at all, at all, 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: at all, that's all that's usually Latin to refer to people. 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: But I think in this case we've got Jared saying yes, 27 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: you just have to acknowledge. Jared Keller is in the chat, 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: is in the zoom, and I think he's going to 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: chime in every now and then with some with some commentary, 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: and we welcome that, I hope. So he's he's already 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: a character in the episode. He's a character in the episode. 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: We've introduced him into the world. Um, Matt, I'm so 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: excited about our guests. This is this is actually do 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: you remember when we started this podcast and pretty much 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: for the past five years we've kept up going, and 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: it's always been sort of like, you know, are a 37 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: little stupid baby, And now all of a sudden, yeah, yeah, yeah, 38 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: because I don't think we have another stupid baby unless 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: so all of a sudden sort of here we are 40 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: and our guest is on, and I gotta break out 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: them away and say, not for nothing, but what the hell, 42 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: what the hell, what the hell? She's first and foremost 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: a last Culturesta's Culture Award nominee. I actually was going 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: to say this is her greatest achievement that she gets 45 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: nominated in the category of Best Haskar, Best Askar. I 46 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: think she really I feel like she's the front runner, 47 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: especially after coming on the show. I mean, can you 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: imagine if she would be snubbed at the last second. 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: That would just be cruel, that would be very cool. 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: She just crossed her fingers and she's got other achievements 51 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: to under her belt, I'd say, I would say, so. 52 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: I mean, is it an exercise in not futility, but 53 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: in sort of communicating what people already know if we 54 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: run through the credits or should we just you know, 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: you know what they say? I said, Letterman says, my 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: guess my next guest truly needs no introduction, And I 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: feel like this is like the epitome of that. But 58 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: that being said, for for our readers that might be 59 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: living under a rock, to just throw another expression out there, 60 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: I think this is the wrap it up, giving us 61 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: the wrap it up. It's just shut up, but keep going. Actually, 62 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's yeah, it's it's on. It's on PRANP 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: shut shut up and keep going. Is Let's just say, um, 64 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: I don't. It's truly surreal because I think that outside 65 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: of my parents growing up, this is the person I 66 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: saw the most in my home. Every single day. We 67 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: were a Today Show household. Where you guys at Today 68 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: Show household, we were a Today Show household. Absolutely everything 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: was dirty rock at my house. It was still to 70 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: this day, I know a man, Yeah, whatever you know. 71 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: I um, I worship at the altar of one erstwhile 72 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: ahead of NBC. Mr Jeffer's who is really a good 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: character in this book. Great character in this book. I 74 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: was loving every experience expeareen and I mean, we'll get 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: into it. There's there's there's a lot that that happens 76 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: just in the I mean, can we talk about this. 77 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: Let's just say about the book. There's a lot that happens. 78 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: When was the last thing you tore through a five 79 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: hundred pager? Okay, I'll tell you honestly, the day before 80 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: I read this's this book. I read this book not 81 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: All Diamonds and Rose, which is a story of the 82 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: Real Housewives franchise, So that was it was merely twelve 83 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 1: or fourteen hours before I tore through this five hundred 84 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: plus pager that I got through this, yes, five plus pager. 85 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: Also a page turner. I wouldn't say, not as much 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: of an achievement as going there by our guest, but 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: a great read none the less that I endorse. I 88 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: think this is the ideal reading experience for me. Because 89 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm clutching the galley in my hand. It's a five 90 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: hundred pager. The average page count per chapter I will know, 91 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I'll say, the number of chapters. Love this? About to 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: do the math that's you. You're averaging out about five 93 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: pages per chapter. And let me tell you tastes authors 94 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: take note. Literally, I was like, they all need to 95 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: be like this. Well, this is someone who knows how 96 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: people consume information and how to tell stories and how 97 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: to tell stories. And I think she's done it with 98 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: a plum and a lan. I want to talk to her. 99 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: Let's talk to her well before before we get going. 100 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: Please check her out. If you're in New York, Boston, Dallas, Nashville, Atlanta, 101 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, San Francisco, please check her out on her 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: going their book towere. She's got wonderful special guests and 103 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,559 Speaker 1: truly span all industries and types of people. It really 104 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: is unmissable wherever you live in different creeds, colors, nationality, 105 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: shape sizes, all different kinds of people. Guests on this book. 106 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: Guest on this sub to her. She was rehearsing for 107 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: it this morning and we're so excited to have her. 108 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: So everyone, please welcome into your ears. Katie Kirk Craziness. Hi, guys, 109 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Thank you very much for having me. 110 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: You've just lowered my demographic by about thirty years, so 111 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: I really appreciate. That's what it is. We're just a 112 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: tool to you are only you are basically mad. I'm 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: using you for your following. Now. I'm really excited to 114 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: be here. It's our honor and pleasure. Honestly, Like when 115 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: we felt we heard that you wanted to do this, 116 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: we were like, oh my god, and then I really 117 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: in reading the book, it's just so good, Like, really, 118 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: congratulations on it. Thank you? Did you both really read 119 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: the book? Yes? Thank you. First of all, thank you 120 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: so much for reading it, because that's a commitment. And um, 121 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: I worked really hard on it over three years, and 122 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: I think it shows all the research I had to 123 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: do because I have a good memory, but not that good. So, UM, 124 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you. I'm really grateful 125 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: that you took the time to read it, and I 126 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you thought, or what questions 127 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: you have or what it made you think about, because 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: it is it is a lot. I mean, it's very expansive, 129 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: and it covers a lot of different things, and I 130 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: think it's kind of sneaks in a lot of issues 131 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: that I think people might be surprised to read about. 132 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: I don't think they're no, they're reading about issues per se, 133 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 1: but they I think through my forty year career whatever, 134 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: in my sixty four year old life, it spans a 135 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: lot of big societal changes and kind of uh, it's 136 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: perfect for the culturalistas because it really talks about culture, 137 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: right Yeah. Can you can you immediately tell in doing 138 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: press for this which people have read the book, in 139 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: which people haven't, Yes, of course. Well, sometimes it also 140 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: depends on the venue. Um, you know, some of these 141 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: interviews just don't don't allow you to kind of talk 142 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: about anything in depth. I really enjoy doing an interview 143 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: with Terry Gross other day from Fresh Air. Um, I 144 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: felt like Terry read it and was really interested in 145 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: all the things that I was interested in when I 146 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: was writing it, instead of kind of the garbage, tabloid 147 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: e stupid stuff that has been completely distorted, blown out 148 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: of proportion, and and willfully misrepresents what this book is 149 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: all about. It's been very strange on I've been really 150 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: piste off about it. For you, isn't well you having 151 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: read the book and then but prior to that, having 152 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: possibly seen some of the the junk that's been put 153 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: out there, were you like, wait what? And and were 154 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: you expecting the book to be very different given some 155 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: of the crap that's been circulating, no considering the sources 156 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: of the trash. It was very like, I I will 157 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: take this with the biggest rock of salt, you know, 158 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: Like I mean, if the Post is writing about it. 159 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: When I start New York Post, I was like, Oh, 160 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: they're are using the word misogynists to describe Katie Keric 161 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: that that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard in 162 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: my life. Tell me more, just kidding, tell me nothing. 163 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: It was just it. But what I've been really sort 164 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: of disappointed by is like I was watching as I 165 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: want to do, I was watching watch what happens Live 166 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: the other night, and they made the gross mistake, I think, 167 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: in programming and just in general of having Megan McCain 168 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: and Sup and they have them on on a Wednesday 169 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: night first of all, which is Beverly Hills night, and 170 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: it's like, why do we have Kyle Richards. It's like 171 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of eyes on itself. Of course they 172 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: get the spot. I don't know why. But he asked 173 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: them about your book and s E turns to Megan 174 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: and goes, well, we both hate it and you can Megan, 175 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: and she just kind of says like why would you 176 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: tear down other women like etcetera, etcetera. And I'm just 177 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: like they're just having this like this discussion that says 178 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: to me, obviously they have not read the book, because 179 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: had Megan McCain read the book, she, out of all people, 180 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: would have so would would recognize that you guys have 181 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: so much in common because of the loss that you 182 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: guys have both experience, because of what you've had to 183 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: go through. So that all she can sit there and 184 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: say is well, I think it's pathetic that she trashed 185 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: other women and like that's not how we are after 186 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: reading the book. It just really disappointed me even more 187 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: because it's that's just not the point. Well, it's so clear, 188 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: and stop holding up the real house when you talk 189 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: about my across the But but I think it's so 190 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: clear that they haven't read the book, and it's honestly 191 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of weird and irresponsible and really creepy for them 192 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: to make these big pronouncements when they haven't read the 193 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: book and they're taking bits and pieces from Well, doesn't 194 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: Megan McCain work for the Daily Mail? Now I don't 195 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: know what she does. I think she does, Yeah, she 196 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: works for the Daily Mail, which you know, it's just 197 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: sort of crazy. It's it's grossly irresponsible of them, and listen, 198 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: they I'd be happy to have them talk about the 199 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: book if they read the book and understood the totality 200 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: of it. But I think they're trying to be in 201 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: my draft a little bit and get you know, some 202 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: people I think are trying to get attention by talking 203 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: about my book if they are just thirsty in general. Yeah, 204 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: it's so strange that you, of all people, would not 205 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: be a nearer to all of the weird fucking stuff 206 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: that like people will start to manufacture around like you 207 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: as a person in terms of you in your output, 208 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: like this is this is something that's happened to you 209 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: your whole career, I would say, you mean in terms 210 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: of just people like real projecting, projecting. I think it's 211 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: so funny, it's so ironic and not in a good way. 212 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: That my prologue talked about trying to write a book 213 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: that showed my multidimensionality, if you will, that people sort 214 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: of put women for aticularly in this box, and yet 215 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: it's sort of happening again there I talk all about. 216 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: You know, I think one of my favorite chapters was 217 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: the Booking Wars, because I mean, didn't that look sound 218 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: like a made for TV series? Right? And and and 219 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: and I think that it was. I had so much 220 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: fun writing it. Some of the stuff is very cheeky, 221 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, my sense of humor, I hope comes through. 222 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: And uh, I laugh about the Booking War, and I 223 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: laugh about the Booking Wars, and I laugh about kind 224 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: of them pitying women against each other, and of course, 225 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, we were the ones that were expected to 226 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: secure the big gets. But I also talk about how 227 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: women are portrayed in the press of you know, these 228 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: cat fights. Is just cating it for the press, and 229 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: and here you go. It's very meta seeing this actually 230 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: play out by people who haven't even read the book. 231 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: You know the thing I first of all, I don't 232 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: trash any women. Hello certainly did not, you know. And 233 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: the only thing I said, which I think was incredibly 234 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: self aware. And any of these people in these professions 235 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: would admit that once in a while I felt territorial 236 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: about my turf right and their turf force all the time. 237 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: There were then there are now that go on in television. 238 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: I know that, but I don't think anyone wants to 239 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: admit that, Oh yeah, sometimes they feel insecure and territorial. 240 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I feel that I felt that way. 241 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm admitting it. I'm calling myself out on it, 242 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: so like, fuck off. It seems it seems like it's 243 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: it's like, um, if a man had written and not 244 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: to be like when it's a man and that like 245 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: and like you know, repeat someone like talk talking about 246 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: But it really feels like if a man had written 247 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: this book and like owned up to a lot of 248 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: this stuff and was willing to talk about an engage 249 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: in a lot of this stuff, people would be like 250 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: it's nice to hear it like discussed in this way, 251 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: and what what a thoughtful recollection on the Times, and 252 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: and like with you, it seems like it's this bizarre 253 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: thing where even women in media are like, well, I 254 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: didn't know she was a meme girl, which came out 255 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: of Sonny Houstin's mouth the other day on The View, 256 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: I was like, are you kidding me? Wow, maybe I 257 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't do that show. Well, there something the fact that 258 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: they keep talking about how excited they are to have you, 259 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: but they are so you're certainly quite a topic on 260 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: hot topics. And do you think they've read the book? 261 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: Because I that's the thing. I don't know. I don't 262 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I should go. I don't think I 263 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: should talk about this book to people who haven't read it. 264 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: That seems sensible, It really does, because it will only 265 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: be misunderstood only I mean, because this is this is 266 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm okay, I'm holding up the spine of this. 267 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: This is this is tome thickness. Okay, I'm saying this 268 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: is like, this is a this is a big, long, nuanced, 269 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: in detailed book. And she's sick, she's maybe she's thick 270 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: She's stilled, there's no way that people are gonna be 271 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: able to distill this down to like, especially on a 272 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: television show. There's no way that they're going to like 273 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: really nailed what you're trying to say. And it's it 274 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: is interesting what Matt just said, like there is no 275 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: way that any well, I think this is your point 276 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: in the Booking Wars chapter, right, like the men were 277 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: not The men thought that the booking stuff was beneath 278 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: them because they had the luxury of thinking that. Meanwhile, 279 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: all of the sort of logistical emotional labor of getting 280 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: these interviews was was placed on specific teams, gendered in 281 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: a specific way. And then if any male newscaster would 282 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: write this book, I don't know that this book would 283 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: exist because I don't think these men are doing the 284 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: soul searching that like we demand women in media to 285 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: to go through. Well, I think we're asking everyone to 286 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: do it. I think I hate to say that that 287 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: that many of these men sort of aren't in touch. Listen, 288 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: this is a very different kind of book. You know 289 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: a lot of journalists say, oh, these are the stories 290 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: I covered. This was something that happened like and not 291 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: to be I'll go I'll bet Middler on beaches on 292 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: you guys. But it is very deep. I mean, it 293 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: is like digging deep into a lot of things. It's 294 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: it's asking myself questions, asking societal questions, you know, kind 295 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: of trying to come to terms with my family history, 296 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: trying to help my daughters understand my late husband, their 297 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: dad's passion for the Civil War in the nineties and 298 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: how it doesn't square and you know, people are so 299 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: black and white, good bad. And someone set me a 300 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: quote by a guy who the director of Gray Gardens, 301 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: and it's tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance. And 302 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: I thought that that rang really true for me, because 303 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: no one can seem to have these conversations in any 304 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: kind of sophisticate, sophisticated or intelligent way they have to. 305 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: It's so reductive and so um sort of extreme one 306 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: way or another. And that's why it it disappoints me, 307 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: but makes me feel sad for people who can't actually 308 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: have a nuanced conversation or appreciate nuance. Um. I think 309 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: it's a real it's it's it's a sad commentary on 310 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,479 Speaker 1: our on our current culture, and we're being very serious 311 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: here boys. But what I think is like also, it's 312 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: like journalists know that way that news is consumed, and 313 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: so it doesn't encourage them to look for nuance either. 314 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: It almost feels like when you watch some of these 315 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: shows when they have five minutes maybe to discuss a 316 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: given topic, it's like a race to the black and white, 317 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's sort of like a 318 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: let me convince you how I'm correct and why this 319 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: is this thing that I'm saying is the correct talking point. 320 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: And it is very sort of you know, there's no 321 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: time for the gray area. There's no time for the 322 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: exploration because people, I think they think, and maybe they're right, 323 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: people get bored. I think we're so used to and 324 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: I've used this a lot that this engagement through enragement, 325 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: you know. I think it's this intersection of psychology and 326 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: technology that we're seeing play out in the modern media landscape. 327 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: You know, you've got to get a rise. I mean, 328 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: this is not a big new news flash or anything, 329 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: but that's you know, this is how the machine keeps churning, right, 330 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: This is how the rabbit hole keeps being followed down. 331 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: And and I think all these kind of things that 332 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: kind of that that hit you emotionally. Those are the 333 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: things that keep you engaged and keep you on these 334 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: platforms or keep you watching this this almost this, this 335 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: rage ray porn in a weird way. But Memmily, you 336 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: come from this school of journalism where you say this 337 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: in the book, like you didn't ever want to expose 338 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: any sort of partisan leaning or ski in your line 339 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: of questioning, Like any time I think I think, I 340 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: think you like that. That is your style, that is, 341 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: that is the Katie Kuric style, Like I feel like 342 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: you you wouldn't. You would never get some ideological thing 343 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: from your point of view out too much, even if 344 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: it was interviewing Sarah Palin or even if it was 345 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: interviewing George George Bush. You know, I did. I did 346 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: try to to do that. I mean, I think that 347 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: that people watching the Today Show since I was probably 348 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: more on the progressive side, you know, when I would 349 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: ask the governor of Wyoming about conversion therapy and the 350 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: kind of uh, you know, environment that creates for for 351 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: people who are gay, or you know, questions along those lines. 352 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: When I really challenged David Duke about comments he's made 353 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: about you know, Jews, belong in the the ash been 354 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: of society or whatever. He said. Um, I think by 355 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: virtue of just being a working woman. You know, I 356 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: think there are some assumptions or some assumptions might have 357 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: been made about me, but I do I have tried, 358 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: or I did try throughout most of my career to 359 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: to really be down the middle and to challenge both sides. 360 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: But then, of course the Trump administration I think ushered 361 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: in this new era of you know, it's become hackney 362 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: to say it's not left right, it's right wrong. But 363 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: I do think it's it's come to this, and so's 364 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: it would be very hard to be the kind of 365 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: journalist that I was in this current day and age. 366 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: You know, I think with what you were saying earlier 367 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: about emotionality to news, I think that's what you were 368 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: doing on the Today Show. I'm jumping around a little bit, 369 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: but I feel like on Today, the reason why you 370 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: helped make it the number one daytime news show is 371 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: that people were emotionally connected to like the like America's 372 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: first Family. Yeah I write about that, you know, that 373 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: was a little exaggerated. I think to create these para 374 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: social relationships that viewers have with people they don't even know. Um, 375 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, I think we all had a good relationship. 376 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: But I think that they exploited that as well from 377 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of how they wanted to to 378 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: promote the show. You know, I think people gravitated towards 379 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: me early on because I was a different animal. I 380 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: wasn't kind of the prototypical news anchor. I looked a 381 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: little different, I acted a little different. I was a 382 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: little more unpolished, and I think people gravitated to that 383 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: authenticity a little bit at the beginning. And I think 384 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: I was pretty comfortable showing different aspects of my personality. 385 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't particularly buttoned up. I like to have fun 386 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: or do say something funny or cheeky, um, and then 387 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: I could do really serious things as well. But you know, 388 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: it's hard to remember about back in I was a 389 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: whole different kettle of fish in terms of what people 390 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: would expect in a female anchor person, lady whatever. It's 391 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: kind of interesting to see that now the number one 392 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: daytime personality is probably Kelly Clarkson, who, like like everyone 393 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: in America fell in love with and it's like she 394 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: we remember that, and so she's like nostalgic but also current. Um, 395 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 1: and she's really not a journalist at all. She's a singer. Well, 396 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: I feel like, well that's more of a talk show 397 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: that is very different, different format, yeah, than than the 398 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: Today's Show which they had to go interview Dr Joe Biden. Though, 399 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: I mean, like sometimes I'm surprised how much the crossover 400 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: there is, especially as we see Donald Trump become president. 401 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: You know what I mean it almost because like all 402 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: these things that had different boxes a long time ago, 403 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: those boxes are sort of like all now turned over 404 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: on the floor and everything's kind of mixing. And I 405 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: think I think you're right though. I think Kelly Is 406 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: is sort of very comfortable in her own skin. She 407 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: kind of is who she is. She doesn't put on airs, 408 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: and I think people appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's um. 409 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: In reading the book, like I just I think I 410 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: read about fifteen times over the sentence swamp ass, and 411 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: I just I was just like, thank God, now you've 412 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: arrived at the time where you can finally discuss the 413 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: moments where you had swamp ass, like the vomiting. My 414 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: daughter Ellie used that expression once when she called me 415 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: she was worked in in a writer's room, and they 416 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: made her go to like five different restaurants for their lunches, 417 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: and it was a hundred and four or something in 418 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: the valley. And she called me like one wanted sushi, 419 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: one wanted barbecue, one wanted Um, what's that place? Uh 420 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: that that it's a chain? And uh no, it's it's 421 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: in It's in Santa Monica. You guys know what I'm 422 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: talking about. I always forget the name. Huh. What kind 423 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: of food is like American cuisine? It's like all kinds 424 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: of you know. No, it's kind of like an upscale 425 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: chili's something something Huh, not Ruby Tuesdays. It's like that, 426 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: it's Friday, Friday. No, not Friday's. It's it's on Santa Monica. 427 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: It's no, keep keep keep guessing, you guys. It's it's 428 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: like and I think they have like cheese, oh, cheese 429 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: State Factory. That's why I walk in there and everyone 430 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: actually bows down. I'm the Prince of cheesecat Okay, sorry, Anyway, 431 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: one guy wanted to call a cheesecate factory and he's 432 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: always like, I want more bread. Anyway, she would call 433 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: me and she would be like, Mom, it is a 434 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: hundred and four in the valley. I've gone to, like, 435 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, twelve different restaurants for these dudes, and I 436 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: have the worst case of swamp bass. And I was like, 437 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: I was like, that is so funny. I've got to 438 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: use that at some point and ergo, Matt swamp bass appearance. 439 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: You talk about squeezing your breast milk across the room, 440 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: you're vomiting after being in an F sixteen, Like it 441 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: goes there, and I wonder, like, no, I was thinking 442 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: about it, you guys, I was thinking about I wrote 443 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: a book as if I was with like really fun 444 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: smart people sitting in a room drinking wine, and I 445 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: was telling my story. Good, that's all we want. When 446 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: when we pick up the book, I mean it does. 447 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel editorialized at all, because this is this 448 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: is the takeaway. And I think this is probably explaining 449 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: the reaction a little bit, is that it's so it's 450 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: it's much more honest than I expected, Sam, Like it's funny, 451 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: Like we were just rattling off jokes, like hard jokes 452 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: in the book. Like I think I think you were 453 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: taking a hammer to like this whole image that you've 454 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: cultivated your whole career, and I feel like that's intentional. 455 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: Is that is that fair to say? Well, first of all, 456 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: I don't think I cultivated an image. I mean, I mean, no, no, no, 457 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not like spack in you doubt 458 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: or whatever, what do you call it? No, no, no, no, 459 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: no no. But I you know, listen, I think the 460 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: point of the book is like, we all are so 461 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: much more than the image people people um project upon us, 462 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: or even the image that we project. And I just said, 463 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of different sides, So 464 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: I don't think I automatically destroyed the image bone. I 465 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: think I just tried to expand who I was and 466 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: let people kind of get to know me in a 467 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: much deeper level, a much more a much more expansive level, 468 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: and a level I mean like I really let people in. 469 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: I let them in about you know, what was happening 470 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: at the worst moment of my life when my husband 471 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: was diagnosed with cancer, and and really a lot of detail. Yeah, 472 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: I am very honest about like how hard it was 473 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: for me to be at CBS and what I believe 474 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: was the hostile work environment that I walked into and 475 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: our purposes were not aligned in any way. Um, and 476 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: I was sort of brought in there to do something 477 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: that only less MOONBZ apparently wanted me to do. And 478 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'm very honest about you know, my sister 479 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: and my parents and you know, great moments of accomplishment 480 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: that I'm really proud of and moments that like I 481 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: sucked at and what that was like, like what it 482 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: really felt like inside to go through it all. And 483 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: and so I feel like I didn't want to to 484 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: change the image people had. I just wanted them to 485 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: get to know me better. Was there any difficulty process 486 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: wise in terms of like putting it down on paper, 487 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: like really reconceptualizing all these difficult memories into this memoir form. 488 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: Not really, you know, it was really it was really helpful. Actually, 489 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think every buddy has delayed grief, you know, 490 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: and I think writing about Jay, you know, first of all, 491 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: it was really fun to write about how we met. Yeah, 492 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: I love that you're a top, by the way, what's 493 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: that mean? Well, so in in in gay sexual relations 494 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: and there's a bottom, you are a top. I would say, 495 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: you you know what you want, and you go for 496 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: it and go for it. And I'm very assertive and 497 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm very intentional top behavior. Okay, all right, well good, 498 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: thank you. You can tell people that. You can tell 499 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: people that. All right, that'll be for my next book, 500 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: going there again or going there. She's going there again. 501 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: So that was me going there and telling you that, Yeah, 502 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. I knew kind of I know 503 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: never never mind, I don't tell no. I I knew 504 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: the concept. I just didn't know the personality traits necessarily 505 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: that went with the concept they're doing. They don't always. 506 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: But I all of a sudden, I was reading the 507 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: book and I'm like, I texted Bow and I'm like, 508 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, like she is really. I was like, I 509 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: think I was surprised by like you really, And I 510 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: don't know why I was surprised about it, but like, 511 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: your sexuality really comes through in the book. Well, you 512 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,719 Speaker 1: know my cousin. This is funny, you guys. My cousin, Henry. 513 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: He lives in Birmingham, Alabama. He's a lawyer. I love him. 514 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: He is the deepest, like serious Southern accent. And I said, Henry. 515 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: I was talking to him because he my mom was 516 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: his cousin, and I was talking to them about my 517 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: mom's Jewishness and Judaism and sort of kind of trying 518 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: to understand that period of time why my mom was 519 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: not well, maybe secretive, but also just just it didn't 520 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: seem to be a big part of her life obviously, right. Well, 521 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, he said, It's interesting, Matt, 522 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: He said, we were never ashamed. It just wasn't a 523 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: huge part of our identity. They were German Jews. They 524 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: came over in the eighteen fifties, I believe, and settled 525 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: in the South. They were in the retail business. And 526 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: I said, Henry, why do you think my mom didn't 527 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: talk more about about that, and or why didn't she? 528 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: He said, well, we were never you know, we were 529 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: super reformed. We were citizens first and and Jews second. 530 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: And they they he said, this was a time when 531 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: really people wanted to assimilate. Um, at least, he said, 532 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: that's what he was saying. I'd like to read more 533 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: and learn more about that, but um, you know that 534 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: again was another interesting aspect of the book. You know, 535 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: And I think about my mom, which she like my 536 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: parents have both both died, and I've been wondering, gosh, 537 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: would my parents be proud of this book? They would yes, 538 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: because you come across as such a dynamic, intelligent, like 539 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: accomplished person. And I think that that probably comes your 540 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: your questioning of that when after I asked, the sexuality 541 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: question probably comes from again this thing of like us. 542 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: It's like a conservative thing that that comes from somewhere 543 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: else that's not within us. Because what what's within you 544 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: is your sexuality and is all the parts of who 545 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: you are. And that's what I appreciate that. That's what 546 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate about the book so much, is that all 547 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: the parts of who you are come through in it, 548 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,959 Speaker 1: because I actually think our society would be a lot 549 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: more forgiving and upset accepting if we all would be 550 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: honest about all parts of ourselves, if we forgot to 551 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: tell you what I why I brought up Henry, my cousin. 552 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: He read the book and he goes, Katie, she am, 553 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: you've seen more sex than a policeman's flashlight for you. 554 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: I was like Henry in that funny I guess when 555 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: they are looking in cars when when people are working 556 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: right that I'd never I'd never heard that expression. It 557 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: made me laugh. I just love that. Um. The epilogue 558 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: was just this letter from your three years after. I think, 559 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: wasn't it so? I mean, my dad was a beautiful writer. 560 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: I think you could tell in that letter. UM. You know, 561 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: I love the use of the word rectitude in that letter. 562 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: UM that that letter always makes me cry because it 563 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: was so beautiful, and I think it encapsulates how loving 564 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: and present and they're my parents were for me my 565 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: entire life, and I feel I feel so blessed. And 566 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, I really did write this for my daughter's 567 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: you guys first and four most um, you know, and 568 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: I when I wrote it, I was like, some people 569 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: might be interested in this. I don't know if if 570 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: that many people, some people who might have watched me 571 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: on the Today Show may be interested in this, um. 572 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: But I had no idea it was going to be 573 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: considered that provocative. I was really surprised by that. I mean, 574 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: it was provocative because it was distorted, but I've been 575 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: surprised at the level of intense feeling about it. And 576 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm really interested when people like you guys actually read 577 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: the book. UM. I'm kind of waiting to see how 578 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: how those people feel about it, because I didn't write 579 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: it for these tabloid you know, reporters who are trying 580 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: to get clicks. I wrote it for thoughtful people who 581 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: are kind of interested in pulling the curtain away from 582 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: from the news business and who are just want to 583 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: kind of think about where we are as a society 584 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: and some of the changes that have happened over the 585 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: last several decades. I mean, I feel like, structurally, you 586 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: do something really incredible in this book in terms of 587 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: balancing out the Katie Kurrent career story and all the 588 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: ups and downs. But then I think you also just 589 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: really and then I think you do uphold these consistent 590 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: pillars of like dating, grief, death, cultural changes. And then 591 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty incredible that you end the book 592 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: on Carrie finding out about her father's you know, just 593 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: a civil war, just just just his his relationship with 594 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: just a specific time. You know. I'm very proud to 595 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: say my daughters are both very intelligent and wonderful, I mean, 596 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: such fine people, first of all. But Carrie really explored 597 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: this and really went deep when she was at Stanford 598 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: and she did a lot of original research in Montgomery. 599 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: She really kind of found out about our family tree. 600 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: She interviewed the ancestors of slaves, uh, the descendants of 601 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: slaves rather in you Fall, Alabama, where some of my 602 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: dad's family settled early on when they came from from France. 603 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: And Um, she is really extremely intellectual and she wrote 604 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: this very beautiful thesis. She won a big award for 605 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: it at Stanford. I was so proud of her. I 606 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: was inspired by her work to talk about that and 607 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: to you know, Brian Stevenson is one of my personal heroes. 608 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: And I don't know, you guys have to have him. 609 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: He started the Equal Justice Initiative. You probably know him. 610 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: He wrote Just Mercy. He is this just incredible, incredible 611 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: civil rights lawyer who I could listen to him all day. 612 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: But anyway, when I did that hour for National Geographic 613 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: on Confederate statues and iconography, he talked a lot about 614 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: the importance of confronting and acknowledging the past and how 615 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: countries like Germany and Rwanda are so much better off 616 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: because they have admitted their mistakes. They have looked at it, 617 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: looked at the past, and they want to to make 618 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: sure it doesn't happen again. They want to acknowledge it 619 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: because without that you can't really move forward. And so um, 620 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: I was, I was really you know, that's something I 621 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: could have kept out. It's mortifying, it's you know, hugely embarrassing. 622 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: Some of my my family tree, as I say, was 623 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: blighted with racist you know, some of the things even 624 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: someone as close as my paternal grandmother did. But I 625 00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: got a lot of courage from Carrie's thesis and from 626 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: her curiosity and um enthusiastic not enthusiasm, curiosity and interest 627 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: and really understanding the past and squaring you know, Jay 628 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: was an incredible person, and you know she is actually 629 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: very forgiving that he was kind of into Civil War 630 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: reenacting because there was this this resurgence of interest in 631 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: the Civil War with ken Burns series Glory Confederates in 632 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: the Addicts in the nineties, and I think he just 633 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: thought riding horses, he loved military history. Um, he just 634 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: I think thought it was a fun pastime to be 635 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: with people from all different walks of life. And you know, 636 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: as I say in the book, he never got to really, 637 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, think about more deeply about sort of what 638 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: that what that symbolized. And it was actually, um, as 639 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: you guys know, a much more recent recognition of all 640 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: of this Lost Cause narrative and all of kind of 641 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: the civil war mythology that has had such a hold 642 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: on our country for so long, and that happened, you know, 643 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: probably in a in a very palpable way, fifteen years 644 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: after Jay died at least. I feel like another theme 645 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 1: in the book is this thing that you just mentioned, 646 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,320 Speaker 1: which is squaring people against things that they've done, interests 647 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: that they've had, scoring that against the people that you 648 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: know them to be, whether it's Jay, whether it's your father, 649 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: whether it's I mean, I guess your mother in that 650 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: way in terms of like the Judaism of it all, 651 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: and then and then and then absolutely with Matt or 652 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: the way you kind of sprinkle that from the beginning 653 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: of the book and then it all comes to a 654 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: head in the end. Um, And I just I feel 655 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: like you must have come to some conclusion about like 656 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: how people are. What do you think your conclusion on 657 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 1: that is? I think I learned you guys that that 658 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: people are complicated. They are, Um, they're the products that 659 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: they're they're conditioning their cultural conditioning their environment sort of 660 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: the thinking of the time. But they're also you know, 661 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: we're all trying to figure it out. And um, you know, 662 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: I I'm really interested in understanding what makes someone the 663 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: way they are. You know, I'm less interested in judging someone. 664 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: I'm interested in what happened to them or what created 665 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: this thing that that made them do what they did. 666 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: I obviously can say how I feel, and can can 667 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: criticize someone's behavior if it hurts other people. But I try. 668 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: I I think I could have been a good psychologist 669 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: because I really try to get to the root of 670 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,959 Speaker 1: of what someone's doing in their behavior. But I guess, 671 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: I guess it's that that people are complicated, um, and 672 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: that they're not all good or all bad. I think 673 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: I even write about that. I think I think in 674 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: some cases it's more extreme than others, this duality that exists. Um. 675 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: But that's sort of what I would say to answer 676 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: that question. Do you buy any chance watch The Morning Show? 677 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,959 Speaker 1: I actually do. I'm friendly with Julianna Margali's Yeah, yeah, 678 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: And I actually started watching it a few months ago 679 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: and then I stopped because I had a lot going on, 680 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: and I just picked it up again, and I think 681 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: it's really interesting and I think they do what they 682 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: do really well. Is every character like has their stuff right, 683 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, whether Chip feels like he shouldn't be back 684 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: there or I guess it's Daniel feels so marginalized and frustrated, 685 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: and clearly the Rees character I forget her name with 686 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: Radley Jackson, she's like, you know, rough around the edges 687 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: and trying to figure it out and navigate her sexuality. Now. Yeah, 688 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: and and and Jennifer Aniston is just you know, trying 689 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,919 Speaker 1: to hold up this facade. I mean, they're all they're 690 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: all just kind of trying to figure it out. And 691 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: I think they reveal their own sort of psychic wounds 692 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: and um, and I find that really interesting. But that 693 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: has to be a little surrey to watch from your 694 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: perspective because the first and and this is where I 695 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: guess my question lies, is the first season sort of 696 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: rolls out a situation that really closely mirrors, if not directly, 697 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: based on the Matt Lour fire and everything that went 698 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: on with that. Yeah. So so then we have Jennifer 699 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: Aniston essentially playing a stand in for you, like an 700 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: avatar for you or Savannah or whoever sits next to 701 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: him in that chair. So when you watch that, is 702 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: it clear? Is it clear to you? And then does 703 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: it become fun for you? Because you're like, oh, this 704 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: is just purely fiction. Like I am, I'm laughing while 705 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: I'm drinking my glass of wine watching this or does 706 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: any part of it make you cringe a little bit? No, 707 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: I don't think it makes me cringe because I think 708 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 1: I think I was gone in two thousand six, and 709 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: I think a lot of these issues. And you know, 710 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: it's interesting because I do write a lot in the 711 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: book about I thought that was kind of powerful, that 712 00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: dinner I had with me before this happened, and um, 713 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: he seems nervous, like yeah, yeah, you know, the circumstances 714 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: are so so different, and I believe in the show, 715 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: I guess I get the impression that they actually were 716 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: involved in some way, uh, sexually involved, right, the Jennifer 717 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: Aniston character, they're now they're now sort of but even 718 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: in the first season they kind of alluded to that 719 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: it was unclear whether or not she was using that, 720 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: whether it was true or not against him to maintain 721 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,760 Speaker 1: power at the show, And now it's sort of coming 722 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: out in the second season that probably did happen several times, 723 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: but it always a gray area, right, right, So obviously 724 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: they take a lot of artistic license. Um, but um, 725 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, I thought I thought they were actually very 726 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: good at getting some totally getting some things right. This 727 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: this you know when he comes to I guess it 728 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: was the party celebrating his anniversary or something or a 729 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: birthday party that he came in the studio and you 730 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: could see he was like beloved. And then this kind 731 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: of weird other side when he's on location in Las 732 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:20,240 Speaker 1: Vegas and you know how he he's sort of lord 733 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: people um in a pretty obviously gross inappropriate Yeah, in 734 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: predatory and gross in inappropriate way. So, I mean, I 735 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: find it interesting and and I think with the second season, 736 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: they're dealing with so many issues that I didn't really 737 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: deal with when I was at the Today Show, issues 738 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 1: that are very of the moment, you know, issues about 739 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: diversity and the Stella character saying, you know, I'm window 740 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,320 Speaker 1: dressing basically. And I think a lot of these issues 741 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: that workplaces all over the country are kind of grappling 742 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: with right representation and and all that. And I find 743 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting. Yeah, well, I just I 744 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: had to ask if you watched it, because I feel 745 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,479 Speaker 1: I feel like if if it were in reading the book, 746 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: I felt I felt in you describing yourself throughout I 747 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, I'm really similar. I felt very similar 748 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: to you in a lot of ways. And so then 749 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, when I asked you that question, 750 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know if you'd be like, no, I don't 751 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: watch it because I know if they if there was 752 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 1: a show that purported to be about something, I was like, 753 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,919 Speaker 1: it was if it was like dressing up as something 754 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 1: I had done, I would have to watch it. Yeah, 755 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: you know, I've heard. I think Jennifer Aniston has said, uh, 756 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: she's sort of models her character after Diane Sawyer. I think, 757 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: I think, but I don't know that. I was going 758 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: to say, I think it's an amalgam I do or 759 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,240 Speaker 1: a Malcolm how do you say that amathem? What's amalgamation 760 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: something I know, but it's when do you use amalgamation? 761 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: And when do you use amalgam? I think it's that. 762 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 1: I think it's amalgam in this case, an amalgamation of 763 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,320 Speaker 1: of something. And then I don't know. I don't know. 764 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 1: That's a good question where the words were done. I 765 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: love words. An amalgamation implies like an action, like the 766 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: act of amalgamating, and so I feel like we can 767 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: use amalgam here, and I think you're no. I think no. 768 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people miss misuse amalgamation when 769 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: they when amalgam is just fine? Is that the ation? 770 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: Certainly I would be the person misusing it. So that's 771 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 1: that feels right. We want to ask you what we 772 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: ask every single one of our guests, which is sort 773 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: of the big question of lost culture, which is, Katie Kuric, 774 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: what was the culture that made you say culture was 775 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: for you? What was the culture that so they didn't so, Jared, 776 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 1: you're supposed to run through this with Katie. Okay, I 777 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: know you mentioned it, but I think I misunderstood. So 778 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: here's here's what it was briefed. So yeah, sure, So 779 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: here's what it is. It's the culture that made you 780 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: say cultures for me, Like when you're growing up and 781 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,760 Speaker 1: you see something in pop culture, in film, television, music, 782 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,800 Speaker 1: and it could be a surrounding thing just the culture 783 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: around you that you grew up and were raised in. 784 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: What made you become the person that you are? I mean, 785 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: of course, it's many different things. You know the answer 786 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 1: to this if no earlier? Come on, I'm really doing 787 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: a test. If you read this we read before you 788 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: nothing day and suddenly make it all seem worth while, yes, girl, 789 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: and you should know it. Yeah, with each little step, 790 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,160 Speaker 1: in every movement, you show it. No no, no, no, 791 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: no no no no. You love us all around. No 792 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: need to fake it. You can have the world. Why 793 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 1: don't you take it? You're gonna make it. You have 794 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: a nice little voice there than we take it on 795 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,880 Speaker 1: the road. Um. But yeah, that's that makes a lot 796 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,279 Speaker 1: of sense to me, and also sort of surreal how 797 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: you were able to execute that, like in terms of 798 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: your career path. Well, you know, I think and as 799 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,919 Speaker 1: I as I write, she just Mary Richard just made 800 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: people my age, you know, remember fellas, I'm sixty four, 801 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,320 Speaker 1: born in ninety seven, and you know, women were just 802 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:52,959 Speaker 1: miraculously really entering the workforce like my generation give or take, 803 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, years older. Um, and obviously you're younger, but 804 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 1: in very significant numbers. And I had a real switch 805 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 1: with the feminist movement and uh, Women's Live as they 806 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,720 Speaker 1: called it back then in the seventies and Mary Tyler 807 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 1: Moore where it was like, oh wait, I all everybody 808 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: in my neighborhoods ah stay at home mom as housewife. 809 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 1: Everybody's I see on TV is pretty much you know, 810 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,800 Speaker 1: a housewife Samantha Stevens on Bewitched, and you know shows 811 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,760 Speaker 1: like that, I do. And then suddenly I do remember 812 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: watching Julia with Diane Carroll Carrol who played h a 813 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,479 Speaker 1: single mom. Uh and and that was cool. But Mary 814 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: Tyler Moore was like, yeah, like she got in her 815 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: car and she's driving to Minneapolis. She's a single woman. 816 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: She didn't get married right out of college, which a 817 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: lot of women older than I were doing, my my sisters, 818 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: and I was like, damn, I I want to do 819 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: that right, And isn't it meaningful that I think the 820 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: first scene in the pilot episode is her like looking 821 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: at an apartment, at the apartment that she moves into, 822 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,879 Speaker 1: just as just like single working gal, just like here 823 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 1: to look at the place, like that's not like a 824 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a housewife setting environment situation, you know, 825 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,719 Speaker 1: right right? I was thinking there are other there were 826 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,320 Speaker 1: other shows like that. I remember, like Room two twenty 827 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: two with Karen Valentine and I remember she was a teacher, 828 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: and uh. You know, it's funny how much television at 829 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,719 Speaker 1: least I think, because I must have watched too much 830 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 1: of it, But it's funny how it really shapes who 831 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: you can be and what the possibilities are, and I 832 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: think and moves the culture. So um yeah, even more 833 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: than that, I feel like, and this is why you 834 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,840 Speaker 1: must understand how important you are is that television I 835 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 1: think helps us shape the way we understand things. It's 836 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: already or stand twice in the same sentence. But I 837 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,960 Speaker 1: feel like you were able to give clarity to things, 838 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,920 Speaker 1: and you still do. But like from the beginning, it 839 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 1: was this thing of like, well, I understand what's going 840 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: on because because of the way that it's being sort 841 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,439 Speaker 1: of communicated to me through this daytime show, evening show, 842 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: syndicated talk show, whatever. Well, you know, you have to 843 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 1: kind of apply your own sensibilities and your own you. 844 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: You you're a vessel, really right, your information in, information out, 845 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:40,080 Speaker 1: and that gets processed and distilled and synthesized by by 846 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,800 Speaker 1: you and obviously a lot of other people in the 847 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,800 Speaker 1: news organization, you know. So that's a big, huge responsibility, 848 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 1: and you don't always get it right. You try, you 849 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,319 Speaker 1: try to have the values that you hope are are 850 00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 1: worthy of aspiring to write and and you do. You 851 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 1: try to to do the best you can and to reflect. 852 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: But you know, I talk a lot about how how 853 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 1: that prison was sometimes clouded, right, you know the way 854 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: we covered Rodney King, Uh that that the way you 855 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: know the way I raised that kind of missing white 856 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,360 Speaker 1: woman syndrome in the book before this whole Gabby Petito, 857 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, the conversation started about you know why, right, 858 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,440 Speaker 1: why is it so much coverage? And what about so 859 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,799 Speaker 1: many other young women who disappear who never ever get 860 00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 1: really mentioned in the news media. So um, I'm I'm 861 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 1: very I think I'm pretty self critical of sort of 862 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:55,120 Speaker 1: when when my prism could have been sharper um and 863 00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: where the whole business I think the business, uh, the 864 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 1: prism of the whole business could have been sharper Well. 865 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: I think you're you're being critical of the system while 866 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 1: also being very honest and self critical about your positioning 867 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,399 Speaker 1: in that system, which is it's And then it gets 868 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 1: really weird and nuanced to think about the individual versus 869 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: the collective sort of you know, way of thinking about it. 870 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: And I feel like you, more than a lot of 871 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:37,000 Speaker 1: people journalists are probably better at not apologizing. I just 872 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: think you're I think you do a better job of 873 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,880 Speaker 1: doing the actual soul searching that I will say the 874 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,680 Speaker 1: men don't do specifically, the way that Matt Lauer weeks 875 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,440 Speaker 1: later came back saying all of these relationships are consensual 876 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 1: just didn't feed. It didn't seem like he was remorseful 877 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 1: at all about the accusations. I mean, and that he 878 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 1: thinks of you as someone who betrayed him. And it's 879 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: very telling. Yeah, the way that he responded to all 880 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,920 Speaker 1: of it. I just think I'm in this conversation there 881 00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: is a lot of i'll say nuance to be like 882 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 1: brought into in terms of thinking about like the way 883 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 1: everyone at these shows our positioned to like, I don't know, 884 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: like really not be not be sure of what their 885 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,040 Speaker 1: resources are if if you know, I think you ask 886 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 1: like yourself. And Curry reported an incident to management because 887 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: someone had approached her, a stafford had approached her with 888 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: this and then you ask yourself, I wonder why no 889 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,800 Speaker 1: one came to me. And I even asked Addie, you know, 890 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,879 Speaker 1: I asked her and I said, would you have ever 891 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,160 Speaker 1: come to me? And I think part of the part 892 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:51,400 Speaker 1: of the pathology was this sort of um secret the 893 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 1: secret nature of these relationships that was actually used to 894 00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: silence and manipulate people and That is interesting too, that 895 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,360 Speaker 1: there's shame built in and shame. Yeah, for her to 896 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: come to you would be just would would would have 897 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,120 Speaker 1: would mean her fully confronting that shame in some way 898 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,279 Speaker 1: to go to you as his co anchor. I mean, 899 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's very interesting. I just 900 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,840 Speaker 1: wanted to return to the Mary telling More thing for 901 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: a second. Yes, I'm sorry you. You must have met 902 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: her many times, I did. Did you get to tell 903 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 1: her that this was true of her impact on you? Yes, 904 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: she must have had so many women, probably extreme meaningful 905 00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,360 Speaker 1: to hear it come from you. Oh listen, I felt 906 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 1: very very dwarfed in her presence. I mean, she's talked 907 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:49,319 Speaker 1: about a complicated person. You know. Again, I think her 908 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: son committed suicide. She um, you know, I think she 909 00:56:55,120 --> 00:57:01,040 Speaker 1: was just so much more layered and really really interesting. 910 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,960 Speaker 1: I didn't know her well, but just from everything I read, 911 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,800 Speaker 1: And it's very easy to become an archetype, you know, 912 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:15,400 Speaker 1: especially on television, right, very very easy to become an archetype. 913 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: And she would certainly understand that. The last time I 914 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,960 Speaker 1: saw her, she was quite ill and quite frail, and 915 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,400 Speaker 1: it made me really sad. But there was something about 916 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,640 Speaker 1: her that was just so winsome and appealing and charming 917 00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 1: and and fun to watch. Um. But yes, I shared 918 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,880 Speaker 1: with her many times and and then you know, I 919 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,240 Speaker 1: was thinking about it because as I was preparing for 920 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,959 Speaker 1: my tour, we did kind of this Greatest Hits reel 921 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,439 Speaker 1: of people and it's just amazing the people I've met. 922 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,919 Speaker 1: I mean that to me, like for the ultimate extrovert 923 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: who's very curious about the world and truly enjoys people 924 00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: Like how lucky I am this job. You know, I 925 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,480 Speaker 1: was looking like you know, Barbara streisand fixed my hair 926 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: like she fixed hubbles in the way we were. I 927 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: got to I got to talk to you know, Betty White. 928 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,400 Speaker 1: We went to the Central Park Zoo together. I mean, 929 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,520 Speaker 1: the list goes on and on and on, and you know, 930 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,840 Speaker 1: just to be able to meet them and have fun 931 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: with them and get to know them a little bit, 932 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,160 Speaker 1: you know. Never I don't I don't really hang out 933 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,520 Speaker 1: with celebrities. That's not that's not my jam. But to 934 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 1: to really too, I mean I have a few few 935 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 1: well known friends, but you know, to just to be 936 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:43,960 Speaker 1: able to be kind of talking to these people is fun. 937 00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: And so you know, I can't believe Michael Jackson asked 938 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:52,000 Speaker 1: you out. I can't believe that either. He kind of did. 939 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,439 Speaker 1: He did it through an intermediary rabbi. That was his way. 940 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,440 Speaker 1: Rabbi Shmurely asked you as a proxy for people who 941 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: have yet to the book. It's out now by the 942 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,520 Speaker 1: release of this episode. But I mean, Rabbi Schmolly, Neil Simon, 943 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: all of this king come on now, I mean, I 944 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,400 Speaker 1: mean that was their varying degrees of mortifying that absolutely, 945 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: But and I also love that you just spilled the 946 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,360 Speaker 1: t about it too, Like I love that you called 947 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:26,360 Speaker 1: John Kasy a tool, like you really called he's an asshole. 948 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,760 Speaker 1: You can see it right through him. I think John 949 00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,200 Speaker 1: Kasi is probably a pretty nice guy, but you got 950 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,560 Speaker 1: to admit what he did was very tulish, toolish. You 951 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,400 Speaker 1: asked you the same question. He was trying to make 952 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 1: you feel small and bad, and that's not a good guy. 953 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: That then, please, you can see right through him. And 954 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,800 Speaker 1: then what with the whole two thousand sixteen of it 955 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: all where it was sort of just him and Trump 956 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,520 Speaker 1: because he was the last one, if you remember, he 957 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,760 Speaker 1: was like sort of the last one that was not 958 00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:55,200 Speaker 1: him um involved in running for the for the GOP nomination, 959 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,920 Speaker 1: Like you could kind of see like it was so 960 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 1: clearly it was almost like dude, just it's they're going Trump, like, 961 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: get the funk out of the way. And then when 962 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,920 Speaker 1: he came back, I was like, I think Governor Kay 963 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,840 Speaker 1: had had a hard time reading social cues. That's how 964 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:20,280 Speaker 1: I would put it. Just that's a very diplomatic way 965 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,440 Speaker 1: of putting it. Yeah, after calling him a tool, I 966 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 1: feel like you need to be too diplomatic with him. 967 01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:32,720 Speaker 1: This is something, This is something I wanted to ask 968 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,840 Speaker 1: you though, because a couple of times I was reading 969 01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,800 Speaker 1: the book and there are sentences like that and little 970 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: little little um, but how about the man we should say? Right, yes, 971 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,520 Speaker 1: thank you? Yes. That seems not to be that interesting 972 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:51,560 Speaker 1: to people though, right interesting? I wonder why? Right? Because 973 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,440 Speaker 1: how many times do you read it through before it 974 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,400 Speaker 1: goes final to final print, and like you have to 975 01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,720 Speaker 1: imagine that like when it's there and it's going out, you, 976 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:04,920 Speaker 1: as the person who's writing it, I want to make 977 01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,160 Speaker 1: sure that every word is getting it across correctly so 978 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,760 Speaker 1: that no one can even though they're going to like 979 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,560 Speaker 1: interpret it in some stupid way. Yeah, I mean many, many, 980 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,520 Speaker 1: many times. By that point, I was a in I 981 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: was like, hey, I'm just gonna be honest. You know. 982 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,240 Speaker 1: I said to my nephew, who I love, the one 983 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 1: who was our Manny Jeff, he is hot. You said 984 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,040 Speaker 1: he had trouble bringing hookups? No, No, I know, I don't. 985 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:39,120 Speaker 1: Did I say that? Whenever? Now he was like, would 986 01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,360 Speaker 1: you like to come back to my house, my place 987 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,840 Speaker 1: and do a puzzle because he lived, he lived in 988 01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,360 Speaker 1: our playroom. And uh, he's great. He's a director. He's 989 01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:52,280 Speaker 1: directing a big Netflix movie in Atlanta right now. He's adorable. 990 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,440 Speaker 1: He's my sister Emily's youngest son, my sister who who 991 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 1: died of pancretic cancer. And he and I have always 992 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,040 Speaker 1: have this very special relationship. And I wrote him and 993 01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,000 Speaker 1: I said, hey, you've read my book. Was it was 994 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,920 Speaker 1: it like, did I go too far or anything? And 995 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 1: he said, I loved your book so much because it 996 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,320 Speaker 1: was so candid. That is one of the best books 997 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: I've ever read. And I said, well, you're my nephew, 998 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,240 Speaker 1: of course you're going to say that. But he said, no, 999 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,400 Speaker 1: that's what really makes it good. It was you being 1000 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,880 Speaker 1: truthful and honest and putting it out there in in 1001 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,600 Speaker 1: the best way possible. So he's he is hot, though 1002 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how to describe it. 1003 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,560 Speaker 1: He just really read us hot on the page. I'm like, yes, 1004 01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,320 Speaker 1: there's something about this Jeff. And I was thinking about 1005 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,320 Speaker 1: him at Disneyland, like like with your daughters. And I'm like, 1006 01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,920 Speaker 1: is Jeff gang too? Is he's single? Because I was 1007 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,240 Speaker 1: interested on the page, I'll tell him, but he's straight. 1008 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:57,200 Speaker 1: And you know any really cute women, I don't. I don't, 1009 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: I know, not a one none. He's awesome. Though I 1010 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: love Jeff. We love Jeff too. Katie, What are you 1011 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:11,040 Speaker 1: most excited for with the tour? You know, I think 1012 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm just excited and and bo when you you get 1013 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,800 Speaker 1: to experience this with sn L. I think I'm excited 1014 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,760 Speaker 1: to be This sounds so cheese and I'm kind of 1015 01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,600 Speaker 1: saying it jokingly in community who says that? But you know, 1016 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,800 Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to be around like living, breathing people. 1017 01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm excited to tell my story on my terms. Um. 1018 01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm excited about all the guests, really interesting, cool guests 1019 01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:42,280 Speaker 1: that are that are going to be a part of it. 1020 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,280 Speaker 1: I loved Tan France. He's going to be in Boston. Um, 1021 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about Chloe and Chloe and Melissa are 1022 01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,920 Speaker 1: going to be in New York. Eina Garten is going 1023 01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,880 Speaker 1: to be in Atlanta, Jenn Gardner is going to be 1024 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: in l A. And John Gardner. Yeah, she's so great. 1025 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean she's she's such a special person. She dates, Yeah, 1026 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,920 Speaker 1: doesn't she Like thirteen going on thirty is underrated? People 1027 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:19,439 Speaker 1: need to rewatch that. And in fact, I was telling 1028 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,640 Speaker 1: Adriana who works with me, that we've got to do 1029 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:30,960 Speaker 1: a clip of her doing the thriller dance your friend Michael, Yeah, yes, exactly. 1030 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:37,120 Speaker 1: And Chance the rapper, it's just fun. That is awesome. 1031 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,160 Speaker 1: And um, Nashville Brad Paisley, who I just saw it 1032 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,400 Speaker 1: last night at the Michael J. Fox Foundation and his 1033 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:49,680 Speaker 1: beautiful wife Kim Um and they're incredible people. Wow, you know, 1034 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 1: I need to listen to more country music. Brad Paisley. 1035 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,040 Speaker 1: He is such a talent, you guys. I mean he's 1036 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:02,000 Speaker 1: amazing and okay, I mean just watching and played the 1037 01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,640 Speaker 1: guitar and he did something, uh the Marshall Tucker Band. 1038 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Can't you see? He just kind of did it because 1039 01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,480 Speaker 1: someone said they were going to donate fifty dollars to 1040 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,320 Speaker 1: the Michael J. Fox Foundation if he played this song. 1041 01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,040 Speaker 1: He had never played it before, and he just like 1042 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:24,720 Speaker 1: crushed it. Some people imagine can you imagine being that 1043 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,880 Speaker 1: you tell yourself to play piano by ear, which is 1044 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,960 Speaker 1: another thing that I really loved. Well, you don't really, Yeah, 1045 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean I used to just sit down. I took 1046 01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,280 Speaker 1: piano for ten years, but I played just by ear 1047 01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,640 Speaker 1: everything in the case. Yeah, like Irving Berlin. I haven't 1048 01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,680 Speaker 1: played lately. But but but Bratt, I mean, Brat Paisley. 1049 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,680 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be if you had a superpower? You guys, 1050 01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,520 Speaker 1: what would it be? I mean that sounds pretty good 1051 01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,760 Speaker 1: learning a song within what like five minutes? Yeah, I don't. 1052 01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,520 Speaker 1: I think he just kind of like, I don't know 1053 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,120 Speaker 1: how he did it. I got to talk to him 1054 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,880 Speaker 1: when I'm in Nashville. But I wish I could. I 1055 01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:02,200 Speaker 1: wish I could just sing beat like really, really, wouldn't 1056 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 1: that be cool to have just an incredible voice like 1057 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,560 Speaker 1: Kristin Chenna with or something. Ask Matt, Matt's got a 1058 01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,360 Speaker 1: pretty good one. Yeah, I could tell Matt, do you 1059 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,320 Speaker 1: do any I mean, did you ever want to be 1060 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,560 Speaker 1: a singer? I sorted them one. UM, I'm actually actually 1061 01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,920 Speaker 1: by the way for for the readers, UM, thank you, 1062 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,200 Speaker 1: because the tour did sell out. So have you heard 1063 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,360 Speaker 1: a Christmas I'm coming? I'm going all around the country. 1064 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, all eleven of my dates sold out. 1065 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,600 Speaker 1: You guys than I should have known this, I guess. 1066 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,080 Speaker 1: So it's sort of an ironic original Christmas album that 1067 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 1: I that I wrote when I was about four years ago. 1068 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,280 Speaker 1: I kind of wanted I saw Mariah Carry and she 1069 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,000 Speaker 1: was going she of course, she's the Queen of Christmas. 1070 01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,400 Speaker 1: She had something to do every year, and I was like, 1071 01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,120 Speaker 1: I want a comedy version of that, and so I 1072 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,120 Speaker 1: wrote with my musical director, Henry. We did an entire 1073 01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,560 Speaker 1: original Christmas album. Every song is fantastic and we do 1074 01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,000 Speaker 1: it every year. So where are you performing in New 1075 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:06,440 Speaker 1: York Joe's Pub? I would love to compute to it. 1076 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,240 Speaker 1: When when is it? I can buy a ticket, Matt 1077 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,480 Speaker 1: when it's sold out, But it's December Joe's Pub, and 1078 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:19,120 Speaker 1: then we're doing the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. But if that's 1079 01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 1: so exciting, thank you. It's a blast. I think if 1080 01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,960 Speaker 1: I if if I could have a superpower. It sounds crazy, 1081 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:29,720 Speaker 1: but honestly, I think I was maybe I was a 1082 01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,000 Speaker 1: little emo after reading your book, but I think I 1083 01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,520 Speaker 1: would want to just have me and everyone I love 1084 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:38,880 Speaker 1: live forever, honestly literally. But then I also was very 1085 01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,240 Speaker 1: touched by something that your mom said, which I think 1086 01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,280 Speaker 1: she probably said it's a joke, but it actually made 1087 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,880 Speaker 1: me feel better, which was, well, you know, if we 1088 01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,400 Speaker 1: all live forever, get pretty crowded down here, it kind 1089 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,840 Speaker 1: of reminds you of like that that's part of life, 1090 01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,200 Speaker 1: and you know, it was sort of like a nice 1091 01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:58,320 Speaker 1: way to put it. And I also, you know, not 1092 01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,240 Speaker 1: to get not to get too serious, but you know, 1093 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 1: I just went on a family vacation and I got 1094 01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:06,880 Speaker 1: back from it and I had such a great time. 1095 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,120 Speaker 1: And then in reading your book, when you talked about 1096 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,960 Speaker 1: like not wasting those moments and how you know, if 1097 01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,600 Speaker 1: you had to regret it was like lingering over coffee 1098 01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,760 Speaker 1: with your producer at one time so that you didn't 1099 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,200 Speaker 1: spend those like extra minutes with your mother. And I 1100 01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,479 Speaker 1: just thought that that was such a great illustration and 1101 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,880 Speaker 1: really powerful, and um, I think the book is so 1102 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,920 Speaker 1: great for so many reasons. And I think you really 1103 01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,080 Speaker 1: do get to know you better. And I think it also, 1104 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, does dive into a lot of tough topics 1105 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:37,400 Speaker 1: because you, in being who you are like have have 1106 01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,320 Speaker 1: been through so many of these things that we that 1107 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,559 Speaker 1: are now cultural topics for us. But I also think 1108 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,639 Speaker 1: the book is also a reminder, and it's a reminder 1109 01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,240 Speaker 1: that not everyone, no one is going to be here forever, 1110 01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:52,720 Speaker 1: that we're not going to be here forever. And I 1111 01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,920 Speaker 1: just I really wanted to say thank you for that 1112 01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,360 Speaker 1: because it's I think a lot of people are going 1113 01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,240 Speaker 1: to get a lot from it. Thanks. I know I did. 1114 01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:02,960 Speaker 1: I had to put it down a couple of times 1115 01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:17,880 Speaker 1: and just take a lap beautifully, beautifully, beautifully beautifully with that, 1116 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,880 Speaker 1: let's move on. I don't think so, honey, and the 1117 01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,840 Speaker 1: rollicking sixties second segment that the podcast is famous for, 1118 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, Katie, the podcast has received critical acclaim. I 1119 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,479 Speaker 1: know it has, and that's why I that's why I 1120 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,920 Speaker 1: reached out and exhausted that i'd be on it. Well, 1121 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,519 Speaker 1: I'm I'm so happy the three pressed. You guys are 1122 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,280 Speaker 1: so nice and you're very fun to talk to because 1123 01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:43,720 Speaker 1: you're thoughtful, right, it's hard to have a conversation with 1124 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,560 Speaker 1: people if they're not kind of interested, because that's what 1125 01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,519 Speaker 1: makes people interesting and that they don't think about things right. 1126 01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,320 Speaker 1: So this has been really fun for me, it's been 1127 01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,200 Speaker 1: fun for us. This is a show that's all about 1128 01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,320 Speaker 1: just interest in general. All just we asked people what 1129 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,400 Speaker 1: they were interested in, what they're interested in now, and 1130 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,160 Speaker 1: I that's a beautiful way of putting it. Is that 1131 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:12,400 Speaker 1: an expression that that that makes people interesting? That's that's 1132 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,000 Speaker 1: that you can quote me on that, but cure that's 1133 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:22,559 Speaker 1: original observation by MOA. What rule of culture? Maybe that'll 1134 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,679 Speaker 1: make it like quotes about people or you know, interest, 1135 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,200 Speaker 1: and then when you google it it'll be like interested 1136 01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:34,559 Speaker 1: people make interesting people. That's actually title of app title 1137 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:39,280 Speaker 1: of that title of episode. It's a rule of culture 1138 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:47,360 Speaker 1: a number one. Interested people make for interesting people. We 1139 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,120 Speaker 1: just gotta lock it in by saying at the same time, okay, 1140 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:51,800 Speaker 1: this is our one a minute segment where we take 1141 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,280 Speaker 1: one minute to do against something in culture, and we'll 1142 01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,120 Speaker 1: go in the usual order, which is Matt first, I 1143 01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of was so I'm so fixated on the guests 1144 01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,200 Speaker 1: and the guest book that I didn't actually have one. 1145 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,160 Speaker 1: But then in the beginning of the episode, I came 1146 01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,000 Speaker 1: up with one again because then I would never return 1147 01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 1: to it because I don't think so, honey. I'm so 1148 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,920 Speaker 1: excited this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. 1149 01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,240 Speaker 1: As time starts now, I don't think so, honey. This 1150 01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,840 Speaker 1: thing of Megan McCain on Watch What Happens Live? Why 1151 01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 1: why does she have an SNL letterman's jacket. It's like 1152 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,120 Speaker 1: she's in like the Nine Times Club at this goddamn show. 1153 01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,599 Speaker 1: And you're gonna have the goal bookers. I'm not talking 1154 01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,400 Speaker 1: to you, Andy, and I don't think that you're responsible 1155 01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,600 Speaker 1: for the booking. But on a Wednesday night, on this 1156 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,639 Speaker 1: the second episode of the Beverly Hills Housewives Reunion, where 1157 01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,200 Speaker 1: we dive into the cultural topic of the year, Erica 1158 01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,559 Speaker 1: Jane and her divorce, and you're gonna have Megan McCain 1159 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,080 Speaker 1: and god knows whoever se Cup is, who never has 1160 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,000 Speaker 1: a goddamn thing to say to get it waxed poetic 1161 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,040 Speaker 1: about the housewives. I don't care what they say. And 1162 01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 1: then they have the goal to go in on my 1163 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,360 Speaker 1: girl Katie Kirk and say they hate the book, you 1164 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,759 Speaker 1: better go fix yourself. And I think it's really funny 1165 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,120 Speaker 1: that you're like, we support women when no. Number one 1166 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,160 Speaker 1: talking point about your book, Megan McCain is how awful 1167 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,080 Speaker 1: everyone at the View is. Give me a fucking break. 1168 01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,479 Speaker 1: You couldn't help to keep talking about this and of 1169 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: course no one can tell their truth, but you get lost. 1170 01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,960 Speaker 1: I don't think that's one minute. Um. She really threw 1171 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:21,519 Speaker 1: U s and elender the best too, and that and 1172 01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:26,880 Speaker 1: athetic she's pathetic, she said, you know, she's like, it's 1173 01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:29,479 Speaker 1: that thing when S and L sketches become real life 1174 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,680 Speaker 1: that people started to think that I was entitled. I 1175 01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:34,720 Speaker 1: was like, no, it didn't taken that well. It's like 1176 01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,760 Speaker 1: it's like what Katie said about Sarah Pale and all 1177 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,760 Speaker 1: she gotta do is talk. Just let her talk and 1178 01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,720 Speaker 1: you'll see exactly how entitled she is. And I you know, 1179 01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,880 Speaker 1: it's been kind of inescapable, like the media thing with 1180 01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,559 Speaker 1: her too right now, because you know she's out there 1181 01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,960 Speaker 1: also hawking her kind of I'm escaping and I'm found 1182 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:57,360 Speaker 1: the hatch. I'm gone, I'm not really. I wish I 1183 01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,519 Speaker 1: could find the hatch easier because she really was like 1184 01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: sort of like a media firestorm there for a few 1185 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,400 Speaker 1: days when she was like the view was a toxic 1186 01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,160 Speaker 1: work environment. Yet like fucking get an original SoundBite, first 1187 01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,160 Speaker 1: of all. And another thing is just like she really 1188 01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,160 Speaker 1: like with the snl of it all, Like the day 1189 01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,200 Speaker 1: after that happened, she was like highest honor and all 1190 01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,519 Speaker 1: the lad She was so fucking chipper about it. She 1191 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,240 Speaker 1: just drives off the negativity and thrives off the victim narrative. 1192 01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,360 Speaker 1: And for her to think that she is the victim 1193 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,559 Speaker 1: and and her life is just pathetic. And I really 1194 01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:31,040 Speaker 1: really really resented her talking about your book the way 1195 01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:35,760 Speaker 1: that she did, especially after reading the book, because of 1196 01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:40,600 Speaker 1: how much have a flattened assessment of it. And I 1197 01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,400 Speaker 1: can't believe she's on Watch what Happens Live more than 1198 01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:54,080 Speaker 1: Andy Cohen, and our guest agrees, I'm listening, but she's 1199 01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,320 Speaker 1: just she's choosing joy right now. She's choosing joy, as 1200 01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:02,840 Speaker 1: he says, and that is the right choice. And I 1201 01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,080 Speaker 1: don't think I have a thing to rag about. Is 1202 01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,080 Speaker 1: that bad? Can you guys excuse me from this exercise? 1203 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:10,479 Speaker 1: Would you get back? You don't have to Here's the thing. 1204 01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,479 Speaker 1: You don't have to have to do anything you don't 1205 01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,280 Speaker 1: want to do. But I think and while Bowen is 1206 01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,200 Speaker 1: doing his maybe I think I pitched enough actually in 1207 01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,840 Speaker 1: this podcast, right, come on, if you would do us 1208 01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,360 Speaker 1: the honor of listening to mine, mine, Mine is gonna 1209 01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:31,679 Speaker 1: be pretty ribald r bald. See two words already two words. 1210 01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,240 Speaker 1: In the episode of of you Know, I had to look. 1211 01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,280 Speaker 1: I had to look up a couple of words because 1212 01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,080 Speaker 1: I knew, I knew inherently what they were, but I 1213 01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:41,920 Speaker 1: wanted to be sure. I had to look up pugil pugilistic, 1214 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,519 Speaker 1: and I thought that was a beautiful distraction of what 1215 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,439 Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly is. And then I knew what bon vivant was, 1216 01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,080 Speaker 1: but I was just curious about what the definition of 1217 01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,560 Speaker 1: it was. And then I it was confirmed for me, 1218 01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,559 Speaker 1: and I loved it. And I think someone who you are, 1219 01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,240 Speaker 1: someone who lives with Gusto and who loves loves life. 1220 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,080 Speaker 1: I just loved. I love that bonivon and I just 1221 01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm actually looking up ryebald to make sure that I'm 1222 01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:14,559 Speaker 1: sure you're no, I'm looking. There was another one too. 1223 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, Google is saying ribbalds, but I know, hey, 1224 01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,320 Speaker 1: but I think the second definition is with a long eye. 1225 01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 1: So I think either is acceptable. So I'd like to 1226 01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:37,960 Speaker 1: apologize Bowen for correcting ribbled, which sounds like dribble. That's 1227 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,479 Speaker 1: why ribald sounds a little better to me. Will you 1228 01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:47,679 Speaker 1: find out h is certainly the more pleasing, seems more correct, 1229 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:52,320 Speaker 1: but maybe that's the British pronunciation. I'm not sure. I 1230 01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,280 Speaker 1: was going to find that at math and turned towards 1231 01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:00,200 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I was horrible if I never met 1232 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,880 Speaker 1: a number I liked, never met a word I didn't love. 1233 01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:08,160 Speaker 1: But there you are, my people, exactly I felt. You 1234 01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,040 Speaker 1: know what my favorite word was when I was little, nonchalant? 1235 01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:16,000 Speaker 1: Nonchalant that's a good word. I like it, very French. 1236 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,679 Speaker 1: The other word that people use incorrectly all the time 1237 01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,920 Speaker 1: is rust non lust. I knew you were going to 1238 01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,280 Speaker 1: say that. Why did you know that? How did you know? 1239 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,040 Speaker 1: I actually knew too. It was because it's like one 1240 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,200 Speaker 1: of those weird ones. It's one of those weird ones. 1241 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,120 Speaker 1: It's the definition is different than what it sounds as 1242 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:38,080 Speaker 1: if it were. Ye're angry means you're very stirred and 1243 01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:41,760 Speaker 1: shape agitated, I think, isn't it? And nonplus like when 1244 01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:43,640 Speaker 1: people it sounds like they should be like, I don't know, 1245 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:45,960 Speaker 1: I'm kind of non People think it means it means 1246 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,200 Speaker 1: you're unfazed, but that's not correct that this can be 1247 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,360 Speaker 1: your I don't think so, honey, Katie. Okay, but I can. 1248 01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,920 Speaker 1: I can go really quickly on mine, and then they 1249 01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 1: have I have an I don't. I don't think so, honey. 1250 01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:02,880 Speaker 1: But it might not be as long as here's the thing. 1251 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:04,640 Speaker 1: Remember when I said you don't have to do it, 1252 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: actually do part of It's part of the briefing. It's 1253 01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,320 Speaker 1: part of the contract. And this is this whole thing 1254 01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,599 Speaker 1: is a verbal contract binding. I'm sorry, but they're binding. Alright. 1255 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,160 Speaker 1: So Boon Yang, first you and you do have to 1256 01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,120 Speaker 1: do one. You are we're gonna get into a big 1257 01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:21,160 Speaker 1: fight my sister. And this is this is not like 1258 01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:25,120 Speaker 1: the Today's show. Me and you are a real family. Okay, okay, 1259 01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:27,840 Speaker 1: so listen, Boon Yang. This is I don't think so, honey. 1260 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:32,679 Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. The marketing behind dude wipes, 1261 01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:36,840 Speaker 1: for those who are unfamiliar, these are, you know, flushable 1262 01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:40,200 Speaker 1: wipes for men quote unquote, when we all know that 1263 01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:44,120 Speaker 1: it is actually being purchased by queer man game and 1264 01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,280 Speaker 1: anyone who engages in anal sax. It's just okay sitting 1265 01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,200 Speaker 1: for people sitting on my bedroom. There's no such thing 1266 01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,720 Speaker 1: as assist het man who is using these to keep 1267 01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:58,320 Speaker 1: a clean butt. They're gonna go for the toshi, They're 1268 01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,680 Speaker 1: gonna go for the bid day seconds. I don't have 1269 01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:02,800 Speaker 1: such plumbing in my apartment, or I just don't want 1270 01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,600 Speaker 1: to think about that, So I'm just relying on the 1271 01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,880 Speaker 1: dude webs, which not environmentally conscious of me, I know, 1272 01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:10,240 Speaker 1: But I just something really gets to me about the 1273 01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,080 Speaker 1: way these are marketed as if they're marketed to like 1274 01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,800 Speaker 1: a fraternity brother, when I know for a fact that 1275 01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,240 Speaker 1: it seems only the bottoms in the world, like myself, 1276 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,320 Speaker 1: we're using it to actually feel like they can walk 1277 01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,599 Speaker 1: into a sexual situation with some confidence and not any 1278 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,799 Speaker 1: self consciouness about the session. So I need the marketing 1279 01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:29,920 Speaker 1: around dude wipes to change. Just call them something with 1280 01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:33,840 Speaker 1: the F word, the other F word. That's that's where 1281 01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,240 Speaker 1: They're not going to be called fact wipes, okay, And 1282 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,519 Speaker 1: I want them to be. Katie, you don't have to 1283 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,360 Speaker 1: worry about this because you're a woman and the top. 1284 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,120 Speaker 1: But the thing is that like there are these, there 1285 01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:49,720 Speaker 1: are these you know, these these these flushable wipes that 1286 01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,200 Speaker 1: we need to sort of keep the area okay. And 1287 01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,120 Speaker 1: so that's what bone is. I don't think someone honeying 1288 01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:58,680 Speaker 1: that the fact that they're calling them dude wipes. Just 1289 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:03,120 Speaker 1: call them white white. They have to be male, like 1290 01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:06,320 Speaker 1: the like the the lady pen, like the pink pen, 1291 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:11,040 Speaker 1: the Bick for women or whatever. It's stupid gender everything. 1292 01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:15,920 Speaker 1: But I don't know. Well, there's there's there's Pure for Men, 1293 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,559 Speaker 1: which is a company that sells fiber supplements and they 1294 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,320 Speaker 1: also make their own line of flashable white and I 1295 01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:25,519 Speaker 1: used to buy them, but it's more convenient and they 1296 01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,080 Speaker 1: ship faster if I buy the dude wipes. So I've 1297 01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,280 Speaker 1: been buying the dude wipes. I followed this Instagram page 1298 01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,040 Speaker 1: which is like men of Soccer, and it's like, you know, 1299 01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,360 Speaker 1: it's like it's like they have the most amazing asses 1300 01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:38,639 Speaker 1: in the world. And so sometimes I'm scrolling and I'm 1301 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,200 Speaker 1: looking at them and I'm like, yeah, but let's not 1302 01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,880 Speaker 1: pretend that's like you can't even like really get excited 1303 01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,200 Speaker 1: about anything here because straight men's butts are the most 1304 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,519 Speaker 1: disgusting thing in the world. They don't think the ultimate 1305 01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,880 Speaker 1: swamp ass the ultimates. That's what I'm saying, like swamp ass. 1306 01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,960 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, this is like the central Okay, 1307 01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,759 Speaker 1: I think it's time for Katie. Do not let Katie 1308 01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:04,080 Speaker 1: respond to this like let us do in her own book. Yeah, 1309 01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:05,840 Speaker 1: you thought you went there. No, then you came to 1310 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:10,080 Speaker 1: last college and we were going there. Um, all right, 1311 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,760 Speaker 1: it's time and then and then and then we'll let 1312 01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,439 Speaker 1: you go. Okay, good because I gotta go. Guys, I 1313 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,840 Speaker 1: love you, but don't you have stuff to do? We 1314 01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:24,280 Speaker 1: have stuff? Okay, sorry, sorry, Okay, what do I say, Honey? 1315 01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think the thing put on 1316 01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,599 Speaker 1: the place is Katie Kuris. I don't think so, honey. 1317 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:33,599 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm saying this and our time starts now. 1318 01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. I think you need to 1319 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:40,640 Speaker 1: be able to use a few sentences without saying like 1320 01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:46,600 Speaker 1: like like like like like can't you speak English? Didn't you? 1321 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, come from talking on people no the time 1322 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,880 Speaker 1: you guys. I don't know. Maybe it's something for these 1323 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:58,639 Speaker 1: this younger generation, but you guys, just pause because if 1324 01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:03,000 Speaker 1: you are thinking about something, don't use like as a crutch. 1325 01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,000 Speaker 1: I used to use you know as a crutch. But 1326 01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:11,400 Speaker 1: now every person, highly educated individuals, I want to say, 1327 01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:16,559 Speaker 1: they sometimes use like forty five times in a one 1328 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:21,719 Speaker 1: minute conversation. I can't deal with it. Stop it. Listen 1329 01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:25,920 Speaker 1: to yourself, record yourself. Can't your likes and get rid 1330 01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:32,120 Speaker 1: of them? People Katie say, I don't think so, honey, 1331 01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,760 Speaker 1: one more time. I don't think so, honey. There and 1332 01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,920 Speaker 1: now you know what's going to quit. I don't like 1333 01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:44,639 Speaker 1: think so like, honey, that's not how it goes. It goes. 1334 01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:50,400 Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Yes it does. Of the 1335 01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:52,800 Speaker 1: rest and the neck as well. Can I say, I'm 1336 01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:57,240 Speaker 1: going to listen back to this now. When I realized 1337 01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:58,960 Speaker 1: how many times I've said like, because that just didn't 1338 01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:03,280 Speaker 1: think you guys did it? No, no, and and and 1339 01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:08,840 Speaker 1: even my my daughter, who is so smart, she sometimes 1340 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,200 Speaker 1: falls back on the like thing. And I want to say, hey, 1341 01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,599 Speaker 1: don't say like so much, but then she'll get mad 1342 01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,960 Speaker 1: at me. I have a question. Have you liberated yourself 1343 01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,720 Speaker 1: from you know as a filler word for the most part, 1344 01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,680 Speaker 1: I have How did you do that? I don't know. 1345 01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:28,960 Speaker 1: I think I just got older and smarter. There you go, 1346 01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:36,920 Speaker 1: so with time, With time, my new my new crutch 1347 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:42,760 Speaker 1: is kind of that's kind of honestly, and sometimes at 1348 01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,520 Speaker 1: the end of a sentence, you know, I need affirmation. 1349 01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,040 Speaker 1: You know a lot of my transitions whenever I listened 1350 01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:58,880 Speaker 1: back to the spredits, a lot of my like a 1351 01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:02,080 Speaker 1: lot of the things I say to transition into sentences 1352 01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:06,040 Speaker 1: are are the same thing. And the readers of the 1353 01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,320 Speaker 1: podcast you know what I'm talking about. And I refused 1354 01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:11,160 Speaker 1: to say it now, but it is. It's interesting. And 1355 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,719 Speaker 1: you know, Janine Garoffalo did the same. I don't think so, honey, 1356 01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:18,120 Speaker 1: she did. She did. I love her. You guys have 1357 01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,360 Speaker 1: that in common. We love her too. Wow. What a 1358 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:25,120 Speaker 1: wonderful episode, Katie, Thank you so much for joining us. No, 1359 01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:28,880 Speaker 1: thank you all for having me. I really appreciated the conversation. 1360 01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,760 Speaker 1: And um, you know I would be friends with both 1361 01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,080 Speaker 1: of you if we could. We're all friends. You're coming 1362 01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:38,880 Speaker 1: to my shows, Okay, I am coming to the show. 1363 01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna reach out to everybody. Okay, do 1364 01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:45,680 Speaker 1: you run? Do you really run? Your social media? Is 1365 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,880 Speaker 1: that you? But I do. I do a lot of it, 1366 01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,080 Speaker 1: but I do have help. My uh my social media 1367 01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:54,840 Speaker 1: person is Julia Lewis. She does a lot of it. 1368 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,680 Speaker 1: Adriana Fasio, who works with me and really helped me 1369 01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,120 Speaker 1: write this book. She did her her her senior thesis 1370 01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,559 Speaker 1: on me at Notre Dame and interview for her thesis 1371 01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:09,120 Speaker 1: she um and during the interview we were talking and 1372 01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,840 Speaker 1: she grew up watching the Today Show and she was 1373 01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:16,720 Speaker 1: writing about the changing perceptions of femininity and morning television 1374 01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,760 Speaker 1: and broadcast journalism. And so when she was interviewing me, 1375 01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,519 Speaker 1: I said, Adriana, you know so much about me, do 1376 01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,720 Speaker 1: you want to help me work on this book? And 1377 01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:29,600 Speaker 1: so she came to work work with me after she 1378 01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:34,400 Speaker 1: graduated from UH Notre Dame and and she's she's been 1379 01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:37,840 Speaker 1: great and she's sort of my right hand person. And 1380 01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,800 Speaker 1: I want to mention Lucy Kalin. She was the former 1381 01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:44,920 Speaker 1: editor of OH magazine. Lucy helped me tremendously. If you 1382 01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:47,320 Speaker 1: saw the acknowledgements, I don't think you had to go 1383 01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,000 Speaker 1: because well you I think you guys have the A 1384 01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:51,680 Speaker 1: R C S. I don't know if Matt you have 1385 01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,800 Speaker 1: the hardcover, so I have the PDF. So you had 1386 01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:01,400 Speaker 1: the acknowledgement. So Lucy is an amazing seeing person. Um, 1387 01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:06,679 Speaker 1: she is an amazing writer. So she was incredibly helpful, 1388 01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:10,560 Speaker 1: and I couldn't have done it without Lucy and Atriana 1389 01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,880 Speaker 1: by my side. And you know what's really nice, You guys, 1390 01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,320 Speaker 1: we worked on this for three years and we all 1391 01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,400 Speaker 1: we all really love each other and don't care about 1392 01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 1: each other, and it was it was obviously an incredible 1393 01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:29,160 Speaker 1: bonding experience. But I feel I feel very close and 1394 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,320 Speaker 1: grateful to both of them. Well, we think then we 1395 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:37,120 Speaker 1: love everybody at Casey M. Tell your listeners to sign 1396 01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,599 Speaker 1: up for my newsletter if they can wake up, call 1397 01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:42,840 Speaker 1: sign up readers. Sign up, you get you get a 1398 01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:47,519 Speaker 1: newsletter and you get Katie's recommendations picks like it's like music, 1399 01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:50,600 Speaker 1: you're listening to it. Yeah, we interview a lot of 1400 01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:53,360 Speaker 1: interesting people. We try to break down the news of 1401 01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:56,600 Speaker 1: the day, and you know, and give up. You know, 1402 01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:02,120 Speaker 1: I give you and give you information you need. And 1403 01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:06,559 Speaker 1: also tell your listeners that we would love to see 1404 01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,160 Speaker 1: them in any of the cities I'm visiting starting October 1405 01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:17,360 Speaker 1: in Boston, Okay, Boston, New York, San Francisco, l A, Nasty, Atlanta, Dallas. 1406 01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,720 Speaker 1: He's joining me in Philadelphia. Oh that's perfect. Well, the 1407 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,519 Speaker 1: book is going there. It's out now. It's incredible and 1408 01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,280 Speaker 1: it's written by our amazing guest Katie Kirk. Thank you 1409 01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:36,120 Speaker 1: so so much, I love you. And we end every 1410 01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,320 Speaker 1: episode with a song and it's a short one and 1411 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,400 Speaker 1: it's the end of the Mary Teller More theme song. 1412 01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:44,800 Speaker 1: Here we go, Bo, You're gonna make it after all, 1413 01:26:48,640 --> 01:27:01,880 Speaker 1: one more time after bye, I stop to without it.