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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left's podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Uber Manager. In his tenure, he's looked

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Speaker 1: after the Stones, The Who, Leonard skinnerd James Peter. Good

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Speaker 1: to have you here. Nice to be here, Bob. Finally,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for inviting me. And where exactly

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Speaker 1: are you right this very second? Right now, I am

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Speaker 1: in what is presently called Rhode Island and the plantations,

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Speaker 1: but it's about to be just called Rhode Island, I understand. Um.

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Speaker 1: I kind of moved to America in the early seventies

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Speaker 1: and got my green card way back in seventy three,

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Speaker 1: and subsequently married a young lady from a from American

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Speaker 1: lady who resided in Rhode Island, and we bought a

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Speaker 1: house up here about thirty years ago in a wonderful

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Speaker 1: part of the country, very very pretty. Now we've had

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Speaker 1: previous conversations. You've spent time in Australia. Was that just

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Speaker 1: when we were emailing or you all? I think that's

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Speaker 1: when we were emailing, Barba. I mean, I'm I'm born

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Speaker 1: in Britain, in the Midlands, Wolverhampton, where Slade came from.

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Speaker 1: Um and it's rather like the equipment of say Akron.

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Speaker 1: It's where Goodyear tires are made in Britain. Um And

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Speaker 1: I spent my early youth in Britain. And I first

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Speaker 1: came to America when I was twenty three and got

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Speaker 1: a green card shortly afterwards and have been an American

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Speaker 1: resident ever since, although just by some strange quirk as

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Speaker 1: life can present. UM, I've tended to be have most

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Speaker 1: of my business has been centered in the UK, so

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Speaker 1: I've kind of gone across the Atlantic backwards and forwards

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Speaker 1: for many years. Let's go back to the Midlands. What

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Speaker 1: did your parents do for a living? UM? My father

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Speaker 1: was um a farmer. He was kind of um, you know,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't hold a job, Bob. We moved around the

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Speaker 1: country frequently every two or three years. And he was

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Speaker 1: one of these guys who was brought in when farms

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Speaker 1: were kind of struggling. He would be asked to come

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Speaker 1: in there and try and get it in shape, you know,

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Speaker 1: replant the fields and etcetera. Etcenter, bring cows in instead

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Speaker 1: of sheep. But he he wasn't the easiest of guys. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we moved a lot around the country. I would think,

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Speaker 1: on an average every two or three years my mother,

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Speaker 1: bless her. Um was a wonderful woman. She actually was

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Speaker 1: a florist, was a gardener and of some repute, and

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Speaker 1: was one of the first gardeners in the fifties and

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Speaker 1: sixties to kind of look at Japanese flower arranging, which

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Speaker 1: was kind of the cutting edge world of flour arrangement

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Speaker 1: in those days, an event and did very well, exhibited

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Speaker 1: all around the country, run flower shop, and actually was

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Speaker 1: part of the team that did the flowers for Princess

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Speaker 1: Margaret's wedding in Westminster Abbey. So I had a tough

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Speaker 1: act to follow. That's certainly a flower in her cap.

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Speaker 1: Was he more of a businessman or did he get

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Speaker 1: his hands dirty? No, he got his hands dirty. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't a businessman at all. Um. He we didn't have

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Speaker 1: a good relationship, Bob. I mean, I'm one of those

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Speaker 1: guys and I think there's a lot in the music

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Speaker 1: business and there's must be a story there who didn't

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Speaker 1: have a particularly happy childhood because of him. I as

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Speaker 1: a result of not really getting on with him, I

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Speaker 1: went to I was put into this kind of boarding

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Speaker 1: school when I was about thirteen, and frankly after that

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Speaker 1: I went to university and after that I went down

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Speaker 1: to London and I never really lived at home after

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Speaker 1: I was thirteen. Um, we didn't have a good relationship

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Speaker 1: my father and I. Okay, so how many kids were

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Speaker 1: in the family. There are three of us. There's myself

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Speaker 1: the oldest, there's my sister who's two years younger than me,

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Speaker 1: and then my brother who is fifteen years younger than me.

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Speaker 1: Came very late when my mother was forty nine. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think, um, yeah, and that my brother that lives

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Speaker 1: in Britain in in the UK, as does my sister,

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Speaker 1: up in a place called Ilkley, Yorkshire, very very nice

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Speaker 1: and my parents funny enough, my father passed away a

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Speaker 1: number of years ago at ninety six, and my mother

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Speaker 1: passed away only two years ago at a hundred and two.

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Speaker 1: So um, hopefully I've got good g right. If the

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Speaker 1: COVID doesn't get you, you're gonna be well. Certainly we're

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Speaker 1: in a bubble here, and you know, Rhode Island has

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Speaker 1: got just about the least kind of cases in the

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Speaker 1: country right now. Of course it's the smallest state, but

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Speaker 1: they she's done a remarkably good job, the governor here, um,

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Speaker 1: and people seemed to be being sensible as opposed to

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Speaker 1: much of the rest of the country right now. So

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Speaker 1: growing up traditionally the oldest child or the hopes and

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Speaker 1: dreams of the family or in that child, did you

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Speaker 1: feel that or were you so estranged from your father

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Speaker 1: that wasn't a factor. More of the latter. My father,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying not to be cruel, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't very successful ending he did did. Uh. He treated

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Speaker 1: my mother terribly. He treated me terribly. Um, he couldn't

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Speaker 1: hold a job down. He wasn't an educated man. He

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Speaker 1: came from a very very interesting family. I'm from a

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Speaker 1: very interesting family. I think my great great great grandfather

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Speaker 1: started Rudge Bicycles, which was quite an esteemed bicycle brand

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Speaker 1: in um in Britain and has traveled the world. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it was bought by Rally then brought by

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Speaker 1: bs A. But my great great grandfather drunk it all

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Speaker 1: away and so we had The family fell in very

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Speaker 1: tough times. My father, according to many people, and was

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Speaker 1: very quite jealous of me. I was, you know, fortunate,

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Speaker 1: and I was good at sport. UM, I was relatively bright. UM,

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Speaker 1: I did very well at school at Rugby. UM I

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Speaker 1: kind of got an England trial, and funny enough, the

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Speaker 1: day I got the England Under sixteen trial, Um, it

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Speaker 1: was in Leicester, which is not far from Wolverhampton from

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Speaker 1: where and where I went to school in Ludlow, the

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Speaker 1: boarding school, and my father didn't want to go, but

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Speaker 1: my mother insisted and my mother went to went to

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Speaker 1: see the game to watch me and my father sat

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Speaker 1: in the car in the parking lot. So oh god. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that has been someone of a motivating for me

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Speaker 1: throughout my life. Um. You know, one of the funny

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Speaker 1: things on the iron is of it was that I

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Speaker 1: didn't learn to drive till I was fifty in fact

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Speaker 1: when I came up here, because you know, I was

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Speaker 1: born into the music business. I was still a kid

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Speaker 1: when I was started with the who I didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything but Limos, I mean Limo around London or Limit

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Speaker 1: around New York. I mean what else was it a

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Speaker 1: better Limos? And I never learned to drive. And so

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Speaker 1: at fifty, on my mother's birthday, I passed my test.

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Speaker 1: So he didn't learn to drive until you were fifty

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Speaker 1: fifty because um, that was one the one thing my

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Speaker 1: father told me and my mother that he could do

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't do. So I thought, well, instead of

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Speaker 1: like learning to I won't drive. I'll prove to him

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Speaker 1: that I can exist quite well and be hopefully relatively

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Speaker 1: successful without driving. So I didn't drive until we moved

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Speaker 1: up to what is essentially the country. Um. One of

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Speaker 1: those odd circumstances in life. So he obviously played quite

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Speaker 1: a factor in my life. My mother I do with Bob.

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Speaker 1: She was a wonderfully creative, very talented. To the day

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Speaker 1: she died, she asked me when I was going to

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Speaker 1: get a proper job. She could never understand because when

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Speaker 1: I got in the business, it wasn't a job, It

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Speaker 1: wasn't an industry. It was well like a cottage industry

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Speaker 1: of anything. And you know, we went along, we were

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Speaker 1: kind of making up the rules. Um as we went along.

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Speaker 1: You came of age, uh in the pre Beatle era,

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Speaker 1: shall we say, the Beatles really kind of hitting sixty

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Speaker 1: two in England, sixty four in America. Were you a

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Speaker 1: music fan? I was. I was at this boarding school

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Speaker 1: and I was huge Rolling Stones fan, right and my

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Speaker 1: best friend was a huge Beatles fan. But I wasn't

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Speaker 1: a massive you know, I don't think there were music

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Speaker 1: fans quite like there are now who were actually like,

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Speaker 1: are so knowledgeable. So also was an incredible elects I

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Speaker 1: never came across it was. It was it was slightly

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Speaker 1: a different dynamic, so Peter music for and we're not

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Speaker 1: to seem not as knowledgeable in your era as they

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Speaker 1: are now. You were saying, yeah, I think so. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's because music as we know it, Bob didn't exist, certainly,

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Speaker 1: not in the critical mass that it does now. It

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Speaker 1: was very early, it was, it was just beginning to evolve.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first record I bought was a seven

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Speaker 1: inch single was by Del Shannon right run Around right

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Speaker 1: then I think it was le Roy Van Dyet walk

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Speaker 1: on By. And then I discovered Bill Haley and Rock

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Speaker 1: around the Clock and that was the fifth is and

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Speaker 1: you know, and we were at down and then the

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Speaker 1: Beatles and the Stones and the so called English invasion

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Speaker 1: kind of begun and started to kind of travel the

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Speaker 1: world the west, the West coast. I think American sound

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Speaker 1: kind of started. The birds and people, Buffalo, Springfield. That

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Speaker 1: was a little later. Dylan was there or there, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like on the level to any extent by

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Speaker 1: any comparison to now. So I and for me anyway,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of that intensity of feeling of kids

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Speaker 1: of young age during at that time it was in

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Speaker 1: some respects it was more than ever it has been

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Speaker 1: ever since, and which it sadly isn't now the soundtrack

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Speaker 1: to a cultural movement, um a youth movement which I

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Speaker 1: think culminated at Woodstock. That was kind of when the

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Speaker 1: major which was a music a musical, sociological and political

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Speaker 1: statement that transcended pure music. But in those preceding ten years,

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Speaker 1: it was a much smaller world. I feel that from

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Speaker 1: what I recall now. Okay, so you were in boarding school.

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Speaker 1: You're obviously a uh an athlete in many different venues,

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Speaker 1: and you were a good athlete. Were you the kind

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Speaker 1: of kid who got along with everybody and a lot

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Speaker 1: of friends who you're of a loner or what kind

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Speaker 1: of kid were you? No? I think I did. I

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Speaker 1: think I got along with everybody. I mean I I

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Speaker 1: was head boy at school, captain of rugby, captain of cricket,

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Speaker 1: a kind of things. I was an athlete, which put

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Speaker 1: me in good stead. And I believe that the one

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Speaker 1: of the primary reasons that I got into Cambridge was

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Speaker 1: because I was a good athlete. And one of the

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Speaker 1: reason that I got into the music business was because

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Speaker 1: when at Cambridge after my first year, I blew my

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Speaker 1: knee out. Um, so, you know, I was pretty social then.

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Speaker 1: I think as I've got older, I've got less social.

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Speaker 1: I think that's part of getting older. I've noticing that myself.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, Bob, I think you have less

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Speaker 1: patience and less everything and if everything's ground dog day,

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Speaker 1: you've seen everything, so you've become kind of a little

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Speaker 1: bit more cynical and less forgiving. But no, I was.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty social back in the day. I have

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Speaker 1: to say I felt I was. I mean I always say,

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Speaker 1: you know, guitarists have a guitar, singers have a microphone,

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Speaker 1: managed just have a mouth. So well, that's why I

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Speaker 1: was asking people think just people think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the skill is just knowing a lot about music or

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Speaker 1: being able to plot a course. We're getting along with

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Speaker 1: people is the first criterion. But how devastating was it

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Speaker 1: for you that you blew out your knee? It was

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Speaker 1: a crushing I mean, really was. I mean, I love rugby.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, rugby and music. I was there

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Speaker 1: and but I was passionate about rugby, and it left

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Speaker 1: a massive void in my life obviously. And although I

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Speaker 1: was a music aficionado, a fan, and I bought music

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Speaker 1: and followed it under the bed sheets like so many

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Speaker 1: people in Britain with Radio Luxembourg and everything else after

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Speaker 1: lights out, you know, the then back in, you know,

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Speaker 1: all those things that kids did in those days to

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Speaker 1: get the kind of music, and all the imports shows

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Speaker 1: of the American bands. I mean, I still had that,

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Speaker 1: but it left a huge hole in my life because

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of probably already gathered pretty hyper um and

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Speaker 1: and you know, I need things to do, I need

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Speaker 1: things to occupy myself. So what we did, my friend

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Speaker 1: and I we said, okay, we looked around at Cambridge

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Speaker 1: and it's a number of independent colleges, almost like like

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Speaker 1: the States. Here it's it's a federal system, it's and

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Speaker 1: all the colleges were independent of one another and had

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Speaker 1: no um coordinated entertainment budgets. All the colleges booked all

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Speaker 1: their things separately individually. There was no kind of social

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Speaker 1: secretary or no entertainment's board or whatever they have, And

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Speaker 1: so we thought, there's a good chance it's a bit

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Speaker 1: of a good business here, and so we formed an

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Speaker 1: agency corp Mono because by that time the English folk

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Speaker 1: scene was becoming really kind of cool and the incredible

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Speaker 1: string band and bands of that nature. We started to

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Speaker 1: kind of like come, you know. We started to follow

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Speaker 1: and we started to book them around the other universities. Um,

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Speaker 1: the Pink Floyd we from Cambridge. I got friendly with Gilmore.

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Speaker 1: Gilmour was in a band called the Wall Flowers. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't even the guitarist, he was the bass player and

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Speaker 1: they played in our local public cry. So we started

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Speaker 1: to get the field for booking stuff. We also managed

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Speaker 1: the band. We put a band together. My first band

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Speaker 1: was called the Pineapple Truck and we tagged it UM

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Speaker 1: even though and back then you needed a tagline the

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Speaker 1: band with the highest I que in the world. And

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Speaker 1: we managed to get um interest. We got a story planted.

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Speaker 1: I god knows how you do it. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you're young, you don't think, you just act um. And

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Speaker 1: we we got a story plan and as a result

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Speaker 1: we got this kind of a and r rushed to

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Speaker 1: come up. They all came up to see this band,

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Speaker 1: who are terrible. Um, but I I remember and it's

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Speaker 1: a funny story. And it's quite separate from my relationship

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Speaker 1: later with Mick Jadder, but one of the things we

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Speaker 1: decided to the lead singer. We had a kid called

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Speaker 1: Ricky Hopper. Best friend at school was a Chris Jagger,

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Speaker 1: happened to be mixed young brother. We thought, let's get

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Speaker 1: him in. Let's get him in. We got a Jagger,

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Speaker 1: we got the i Q, we got everything, and we

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Speaker 1: kind of spun this story. And and a well known

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Speaker 1: he was a journalist then he came a playwright and

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Speaker 1: an author of some repute. Michael Frayne was sent up

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Speaker 1: by the Sunday Times to do this piece on on

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Speaker 1: this band of Pineapple Truck, and you know, I just

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Speaker 1: fell in love with it. I just thought, this is fantastic,

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Speaker 1: you know, orchestrating these things, tweaking, um, this is fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and you know, putting on concerts, and I just fell

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Speaker 1: in love with the business. And I think inasmuch as

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Speaker 1: the music, I fell in love with the business because

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Speaker 1: it was you could there were no rules, there was

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Speaker 1: no structure that it was like you had to follow

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Speaker 1: your instincts and it was just for me, It just

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Speaker 1: it was just hit a sweet spot and That was

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Speaker 1: the beginnings of my love, my my, my, my, my,

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Speaker 1: my involvement in music from the other side of the

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Speaker 1: of the room, as it were, the management, the business sidemen.

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Speaker 1: We promoted a lot of shows at the Cambridge Corner Exchange,

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Speaker 1: and I mean I loved all the American bands, so

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Speaker 1: we had it. We bought over It's a Beautiful Day.

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Speaker 1: I'm Butterfly. We had their um who else, We had

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Speaker 1: the Electric Prunes. We toured w all those old California

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Speaker 1: bands as well as the as well as obviously the

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Speaker 1: String Band. I remember we booked her Anosaurus Rex and

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Speaker 1: I had them at the Cambridge Corner Exchange and actually

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Speaker 1: sat there watching it. Mark Bowl and fell asleep on

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Speaker 1: stage when he was singing. I mean, you know with

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Speaker 1: me it was him and Mickey hook the two of

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Speaker 1: them before Mark wentz you know, and I hooked up

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Speaker 1: with Mark later attract records. Um but and that was it.

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Speaker 1: And so what happened was I booked the Who or

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Speaker 1: we booked the Who just for one second? Okay? Uh.

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Speaker 1: Even though it's easy to tell the story, it's not

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Speaker 1: so easy to do to start an agency in booking

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Speaker 1: at different colleges. Do you have an entrepreneurial spirit or

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Speaker 1: was it another member of the so called we. No,

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Speaker 1: I think it was me, my my, my, my mate

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Speaker 1: who did it with me? John Willis, um wonderful guy,

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Speaker 1: was still friends. He went on to the head of

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Speaker 1: Channel four. He's made documentaries, he's the head of Bathta,

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Speaker 1: he was chairman of Bathta for a number of years.

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Speaker 1: He was. I think I was probably more entrepreneur than him. Actually, Bob,

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Speaker 1: I kind of like, yeah, I had that at that point.

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Speaker 1: You have no fear, um, just no fear you just

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Speaker 1: as a young person, you kind of don't you don't

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Speaker 1: you don't think it through drilling down a little bit,

303
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Speaker 1: was the money to book these towards your personal money

304
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Speaker 1: or the school's money? Now our personal money? We actually,

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Speaker 1: we both know being a culture promoter is a like

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Speaker 1: to go broke. So how did how did you manage

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Speaker 1: to stay in business? Well? Hold on, now, then when

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Speaker 1: we booked these shows, remember hold on, no, I see

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. When we booked shows for the may balls,

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Speaker 1: which are the big kind of balls on graduation balls here,

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Speaker 1: that was the college money. We took a percentage. Okay,

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Speaker 1: when I promoted concerts at the Cambridge Town like Cambridge

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Speaker 1: Call Exchange like the Prunes, or we we did family

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Speaker 1: with Roger Chapman. That was our own money. We we

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Speaker 1: just it was again back to your point, it was relationships.

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Speaker 1: There was one agency in particular that would sell to us.

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Speaker 1: Some agencies wouldn't sell to young college kits without you know,

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Speaker 1: with bank accounts with no money in them. One agency

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Speaker 1: that sold to us, who I cultivated with John Willis,

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Speaker 1: was called the Brian Morrison Agency. I remember now one

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Speaker 1: thirty two chairing cross Road. That agency represented, amongst others,

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Speaker 1: the Pink Floyd, the Pretty Things and a number of

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Speaker 1: other bands. There was the bookers there, one being Steve

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Speaker 1: O'Rourke who went on to manage the Pink Floyd, another

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Speaker 1: Tony Howard who went on to manage the Soft Machine,

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Speaker 1: and um a guy called Brian Murray who managed actually

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Speaker 1: Mungo Jerry. You'd probably know who they are. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got it. Um. But they sold to us and

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Speaker 1: they taught me some lessons very early on, some big lessons.

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Speaker 1: I remember we booked a band called Jimmy James and

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Speaker 1: the Bag of Bonds into Cambridge Corn Exchange. I remember

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Speaker 1: we paid a hundred fifty thousand, hundred and fifty pounds

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Speaker 1: was the fee we paid them. No back ends in

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Speaker 1: those days. Um, And for some reason, I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether we blagged it or what, we didn't pay the

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Speaker 1: full amount of money to the agency ahead of the show.

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Speaker 1: You know, as you know, normally you have to, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're an unknown promoter. So we agree, need um

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Speaker 1: to settle with the band's manager on the night. So

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Speaker 1: we go in and I go and say, all right,

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Speaker 1: I've got I've got your money already. Here's the hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty. And the guy said, when we're only getting

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00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five, I said, no, that here's the content.

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Speaker 1: So I learned about buying and selling very early on.

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Speaker 1: That That was Steve A raw Bless his heart, and

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Speaker 1: he became Yeah, he became a lifelong friend until he

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Speaker 1: sadly passed away. Um. Okay, just like okay, we're in

348
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Speaker 1: like sixty seven, sixty eight. Uh, this was I was

349
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Speaker 1: a camera from sixty five to sixty eight. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: A side question, because the Incredible String band was big

351
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 1: at that time, fell completely off the radar. Is that

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Speaker 1: a sound that could ever come back? Or it was

353
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Speaker 1: just a moment in time. It was a little bit

354
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 1: at a moment in time like Donovan and listen, it

355
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: was a little kind of a little hippie you know.

356
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Speaker 1: Um two great musicians, Mike Williams and Mike Heron, great musicians,

357
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Speaker 1: and there were them. Was like the Fairbook Convention. We

358
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Speaker 1: booked them as well. There are a number of those

359
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: man's not quite like the Incredible String Band, but they

360
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: kind of bridge the gap, I suppose in some ways Bob,

361
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Speaker 1: between real real folk and things like the Fairpool Convention.

362
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: Because that time you had Bertie and and John Renborne

363
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: were really doing well. There was the folk thing. There

364
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: was a girl called Julie Felix in Britain, obviously in

365
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: America because I remember my record collection at Cambridge had

366
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Speaker 1: things like Tim Buckley, had things like Tim Harden, had

367
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Speaker 1: things like um, oh God, Jesse Winchester. I remember that

368
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: was a particular I liked that music, and obviously that

369
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, the Bob Dylan and co um So I

370
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: don't know whether it could come back quite in the

371
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: same incarnation, but I think there's always and for any

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Speaker 1: type of music, how big its footprint can be. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. They were great to stream and it was

374
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: quite unique, right, they certainly had a moment. Okay, so

375
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Speaker 1: you booked the Who, I interrupted you. Oh yeah, well,

376
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: so I booked the Who. We booked the Who for

377
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 1: the price mayble, and we pay them four hundred We

378
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 1: got them for four hundred pounds, which was like probably

379
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: four million now, four hundred pounds for the Who to

380
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: play and this was sixty eight I think sixty seven

381
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: or sixty eight um. And then on the morning of

382
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: the show I get a telegram as they were called then.

383
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: It was Cable as we've known America from Kit a

384
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Speaker 1: kit Lambert Um, dear Mr Rids, Mr Willis, it is

385
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: with sad, great sadness and greatest may that we're uf g.

386
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: Keith Moon has been the drummer has been taken sick

387
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: Vladi bl and we're unable to fulfill tonight's function. Bard.

388
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: Now we were like the Who were like I was

389
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: a massive hoo fan. I love the well it begs,

390
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 1: the begs the question were you a martyr a rocker?

391
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: Did that even apply a cambridge? It didn't really, Honestly,

392
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 1: I didn't really feel either way about it. In fact,

393
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: I kept away from both of them because they were

394
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,479
Speaker 1: always in fight, so I didn't actually I didn't wear

395
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: any colors. It didn't that I wasn't aware of it.

396
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 1: When I was at Cambridge it was more mark. We

397
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 1: were kind of marching against the bomb and things like that.

398
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: The you know, we were more in that world in

399
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: those days, CND and everything. Um. But anyway, so I thought, well,

400
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: and they can't do that to us, what are we

401
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: going to do? This is our big moment. And as

402
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: you do when you're two, I jumped on a train

403
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: and said, I'm going down to London. I'm going to

404
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: go and talk to this guy Lambert. They can't do this.

405
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: This is day of, day of, morning of, and I said,

406
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: they can't do this. Um. And so I was just

407
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: angry because I didn't know. We I think we actually

408
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: got the family to replaced them, not for four hundred,

409
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: but we got. We knew we gotta go. I was like, yeah,

410
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to show these people they can't mess with

411
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: this like this just not right and you do these things.

412
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: And I've gone on the train. I walked into Track

413
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: Records and there was kid Lambert and bless his heart,

414
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: because normally if someone like me came on, I wouldn't

415
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: see them. I don't as they get rid of them.

416
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: Lambert though, you know, we'll get into it later is large.

417
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: Was a larger than life character. And I walked in

418
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: there and he says, look, it's terribly sorry. And he

419
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: had this doctor's note and all these things and everything,

420
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: and I suddenly look over his shoulder. I see a

421
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: wall map. You know those kind of war maps you

422
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: do weather the whole month is left, and I see

423
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: on the day of our May the fifteenth May ball,

424
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: it says who Isle of Dogs video? Shoot for dogs.

425
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: There was a song. I said, he's not sick. They're

426
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: doing a video and he fesst up. Kid fesst up,

427
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: he said a little. And you know, I didn't do anything.

428
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm as a twenty one year old kid and dad,

429
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: you know. He said, we're making up. We'll play for

430
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: you next year. I said, well, we're not going to

431
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: be a Camidge. I'm graduating. He said, don't worry. He

432
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: said whatever, whenever you need the who, whenever you want

433
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: to promote, will do it. And there was no legal

434
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: action or anything like that. It was just those I

435
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: don't know. For me, it was an adventure, but um

436
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: turn the clock forward, just a tiny tad and I'm

437
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: preparing for my um um, I'm I'm writing to people

438
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: in the music business for a summer job. Because my

439
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: ambition when I left university was not to go in

440
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: the musics. It was to go into the civil Service,

441
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: the foreigns, the Foreign Service. I wanted to be a diplomat,

442
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be our Man and Havanna, and

443
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: I wanted whatever the John the Carrier Hero and so

444
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: I picked three people that I thought I would love

445
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: to spend the summer working for. One was Lambert Okay

446
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: Track because they were really doing something special those days,

447
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: obviously Hendrix, the Who Um primarily John's children, Mark Pole

448
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: and Bloody but Um. The other was Andrew Oldham at

449
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: a Media because I love them. That was The Stones

450
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: and people forget Now but the Small Faces um and

451
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell at Ireland Traffic was a big favorite band

452
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: of mine, and and I kind of new Spencer Davis

453
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 1: a little bit and so um that I wrote three letters.

454
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: I heard nothing back for about three or four weeks,

455
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: and one day I'm in my room at Cambridge and

456
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: there's a knock on the door. Um, and hello, Mr

457
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: Lambert sent me, and I said, yeah, Mr kill Lambert, Yeah,

458
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: and um, I said. He said, well, why why have

459
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: you coming? Well? You wrote him a letter, he said,

460
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: asking for employment, but you didn't sign it and he

461
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: didn't know how to contact you. But he guessed because

462
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: of what I had said in the letter that it

463
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: was the person at fitzwilliam College, Cambridge, who because I

464
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: I detailed, you know how we'd met in the over

465
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: the WHO booking fall and through UM. He said it

466
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: must be you, he said, but I obviously it was

467
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: so tired. I was writing these letters and four o'clock

468
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: in the morning, cramming for exams and UM. To cut

469
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: a long story short, I went down to uh London.

470
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: I met with Kit again at track and this was

471
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: kind of May June or something. He hired me and

472
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: I said, what I'd like to do, you know, take

473
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: the summer off. I want to, you know, go down

474
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: to Morocco and do what all students do. UM. And

475
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: then he said, well, let's start October. One October the

476
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: first nineteen sixty seven started track records twenty pounds a week. Either, Wow,

477
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: that's it, great, fantastic, So off we when I went away,

478
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: the summer went to Morocco, did my thing, got back

479
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: to London, went to take six, bought a snazzy white

480
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: lip jacket and everything turn up. A trap records on

481
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: October the first, at ten o'clock or nine o'clockwards something

482
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: in the morning. No one there. Of course, eventually someone

483
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: staggers in around eleven and they look at me and said,

484
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: well who here, said, well, Kit Lambert employed me. I'm

485
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: starting a trap rugglers the day. And everyone looked to

486
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: me kind of like, oh, yeah, right, and you'll have

487
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: to wait for Kris Stamp to come in. Kids in

488
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: Seattle right now with Hendrix, and that's eight hours ahead.

489
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: We won't behind, we won't be able to get him.

490
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: So Stamp comes in around lunchtime. He said, you know,

491
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: you better sit there and wait till I speak to Kit.

492
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: I I don't know. He didn't tell us, and everyone's

493
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: really weird. They look at me, really Sanath, and this

494
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: isn't very pleasant. And then eventually, at about five o'clock

495
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: that day they get Kits and kids says, oh my god,

496
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: yes I did hire him. Of course I forgot. Yes

497
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: he's fine, he's the boy from Cambridge and what I

498
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: And they said, okay, you're hired. You And what I

499
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: didn't realize that Kit was gay and the kids primary

500
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: pickup line when he went around the cruising the clubs

501
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: was I'll give you a job. So I was one

502
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: of many who had turned up saying that Kit had

503
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: promised them a job. And of course, you know, there

504
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: was no job, but I actually it was real. So

505
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: and that's it, and I that was my kind of

506
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: summer job. I started October the one, and I was

507
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: going to work through till the end of December because

508
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: the civil servicing Sam's didn't take place until January. There

509
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: was going to be a you know, just a temporary job.

510
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: So what happened? Now you're there? What do they give you? Okay, oh,

511
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do the first day, just sending out

512
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: envelopes like every intern gets. But life is a lot

513
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: about luck and circumstance, isn't it. And so it happened

514
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: that when I was there in nine sixty eight, the

515
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: who were in IBC Studios in Portland Place recording and

516
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: our well called Tommy. I don't I don't want to

517
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: make a big deal about this, but the job you

518
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: said was October one, six seven, but really was oct

519
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: Correct sixty eight. Sorry, yes, sorry, yes, that's right. Um

520
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: so um they were doing the who were doing? To

521
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: tell me so obviously when you sit around with at

522
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: that moment, Kit Who had a lot of faults And

523
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: I know Bill went through a lot of this with

524
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: you on his podcast about Kit. But there was another

525
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: side to Kit that was pure genius. Um. He's like

526
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: many people in this world that we live in the

527
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: world of art, a tragic genius Um faults, warts and all.

528
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: I maintained that would not have been a Who without

529
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: Kid because he had the vision. He had that Z

530
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: thing that drove Pete Townsend um. And I think Pete

531
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: would acknowledge that to you now he has to me recently,

532
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: Uh that without Kick came up with so many of

533
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: the ideas, the breaking of this behind anyway, that Kit

534
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: was producing the record in the studio and he was

535
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: saying one day, and as as he would in France,

536
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 1: he said, would you try and check out some opera

537
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: houses for me? Um he went to Kamide. You must

538
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: know about opera um go and bok So. So I thought, right, well,

539
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: this is the who and Um, let me see what

540
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: I can do. I went around, I talked I hustle

541
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: and I checked I phone, and the end result was

542
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: that we played at the Colosseum in London, which is

543
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: home to the English National Opera, in Saint Martin's Lane,

544
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: and that was one of the first performances of Tommy ever.

545
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: We went on and played a number of concerts around

546
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: Europe and they were all successful. The concerned about in

547
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: Holland the elease a theater in Paris or prestigious non

548
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: prestigious concert tours or venues which catered more mostly to opera,

549
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: not to content, not to popular music, and it was

550
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: kind of a big deal. Um, So they said, well,

551
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: why don't you go to We'd like to send you

552
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: to America. And he said, there's two things. One is,

553
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, go over there and see if you will

554
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: find an opera house in New York. And I thought yeah.

555
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: And the other thing is that we've got our contract

556
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: with our agent is over and everybody is coming around

557
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: because the who were hot, they were about to break everything.

558
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: They were kind of like, you know, they were moving

559
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: from the three thousand to the five thousand to the

560
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: eight thousand capacity venues. Everyone knew they were gonna pop

561
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: and so all the big agencies were coming to take

562
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: a look, but we were with this guy, Frank Barcelona.

563
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: He's a really good agent and he's got a small

564
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: kind of boutique agency called Premier Talent. But William Morris

565
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: wants them. This one wants and that one wants them,

566
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: and so you should take me eatings with him and

567
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: see what we can do. And so I got on

568
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: the plane of v C ten and I flew into London,

569
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: into New York and the first time I went was

570
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: to Frank Barcelona's office to meet him up at two

571
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: D West fifty seventh Street, and within like an ary

572
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: had me hooked. I just felt, you know, that this

573
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: guy was really something. He had a great act, but

574
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: you could just tell there was something special about him.

575
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: I then went and met other agents. It's funnily enough,

576
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: one of the agents I met at William Morris who

577
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: was attempting to get take the band from Frank, was

578
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: Steve Lieber. Steve Leeber was, yeah, Steve Lever was. It

579
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: was Steve Lieber and Jim Taft. Jim Taft sadly passed

580
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: away very young age, but yeah, Steve Leeber was really

581
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: hustling me. Now, you couldn't find more different people than

582
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: Steve Lieber and Frank Barcelona. But I went back and

583
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: they were offering reduced commissions and things like that, and

584
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: a t I was saying, you'll do it for this,

585
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: and I just I don't know. I had a gut film.

586
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: I called Chris back, Chris stamback because he tended to

587
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: handle that side of it more and kit the records.

588
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: I said, I think we should stay with Frank Varcelona.

589
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: He's a great agent. He really knows I got. I

590
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: just get a great feel, he really gets the who.

591
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: And I saw the rest of his roster and I

592
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: saw a little bit. I mean, I didn't know him

593
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: as well as I got to know him. And so

594
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: we stayed with Frank. And the other thing was that

595
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: I managed to get on the phone the general manager

596
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: when I was there. I was twenty three, I think

597
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: of the Metropolitan Opera House, and it was a guy

598
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: called Herman Crawitz, who later became known as being Barishnikov's manager,

599
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: and he blessed his heart, agreed to see me. The

600
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: guy who ran the met in those days was Sir Rudolph,

601
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: being an Englishman, and he was fascinated by the fact

602
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: that this guy was coming and trying to get the

603
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: Who to play the Trobln Operas. No one had played

604
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: the Metropoln Operas other than opera people in that that time.

605
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: No one even thought about who weren't the biggest when

606
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, with it was Sinatra or Presley or some

607
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: of those people, you could understand there was maybe a conversation,

608
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: but no, it was it was the Who and Rudolph

609
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: being we've we we blanked it and we got it.

610
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: And on July seventh, um, you know, um that sixty nine,

611
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: I think seven seventy, July seven seventy, it was new

612
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: action that wise Bill Graham presents the Who at the

613
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: Metroboln Operas with two shows. I think it's actually says

614
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: on the post that doesn't it last performance ever of Tommy?

615
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: I think it did. I think it did. David Birds,

616
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: I saw that the previous spring they did the Spring,

617
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: and previously they did the Spring and then they did

618
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: the Fall for a week at the fillmore East at

619
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: the film. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, but this this

620
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: does beg the question of something you mentioned earlier. Uh,

621
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: in August they played Woodstock. Needless to say, the movie

622
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: turns them into superstars. Did you go to Woodstock or

623
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: very interestingly, Um, one of the jobs you asked I

624
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: was given when I got there was to go through

625
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: and sort all the contracts because they were all over

626
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: the place. No one was taking looking after them at all.

627
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: And one of the first contrasts that passed my desk

628
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: was the who for Woodstock twelve and a half thousand

629
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: dollars um. That was their feet and no airfare's no

630
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: hotels twelve and a half thousand dollars um. But no,

631
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: I was not at Woodstock. No, I didn't fly over

632
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: till afterwood Stock. Okay. So now in the spring of

633
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: seventy the who were just really blowing up. And this

634
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: is it's not to the fall, I think, or maybe

635
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: this No, it's actually the late spring. It's who live

636
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: it leads. So what are your duty? What are your

637
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: duties other than selecting Barcelona making the gig? My duties

638
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: were And then this is where I just need to

639
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: step back. I mean to put it into context. And

640
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: my memory of events is slightly different than bills. Um,

641
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: what happened the track was Kit and Chris. It did

642
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: get out of control, Okay, Um, they were not on

643
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: top of it. Kit was still Kit and he was

644
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: still coming in with crazy ideas about videos with Michael

645
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: Lindsay about album covers like stamped in Fairness came up

646
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: with the live at Leeds idea for the album cover.

647
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: They still had that. There were filmmakers, That's how they

648
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: they got into the music business because they were looking

649
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: for a band to make a film about Okay to

650
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: To To To as a metaphor for hip for London

651
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: as it was in the sixties. So they were there,

652
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: but they weren't taking care of business. And I, because

653
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: of my initial kind of success with the opera houses,

654
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: my responsibilities were to a great extent, love to do

655
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: most of the live stuff. However, what happened is I

656
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: was at track, there were a few other people there.

657
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: The guy might sure that Bill talks about was there,

658
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: and then Bill joined, and then so Bill and I

659
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: basically we're kind of mucking in and doing all the

660
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: day to day stuff at the record company, the management company,

661
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: et cetera. There I went over to America in nineteen seventy.

662
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: I fell in love with it when I drove over

663
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: that tribe of Bridge the first time. I probably didn't

664
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: go to bed for ten days. I just felt I

665
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: fell in love with New York, the energy, the pace,

666
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: just everything about it. I thought this is for me.

667
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: So I kind of became the American end of it

668
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: and Bill and either which Bill doesn't mention, and I'm

669
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: not quite sure why. I feel a little bit stalinized.

670
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: We were partners. Bill and I had a pack. We

671
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: were doing things together. We kind of brought in Golden Earring.

672
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: I did Golden Earring in America. Bill did most of

673
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 1: it in England. The show at the Lyceum that Bill

674
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: references they were supporting Mountain. I picked up Mountain because

675
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: Frank introduced me to Gary Kirk First. I got to

676
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,959
Speaker 1: know and become very friendly with Gary firsts and Bud

677
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: Praeger so and Gary was going to do things for

678
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: me with Bud in America. And we handle Mountain in

679
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: Europe and booked the tours. That's why Golden Ring were on.

680
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: And I remember being at that very same Lyceum show

681
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: the Bill Bill references, So Bill and I were kind

682
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: of partners, and I handled America. I was there during

683
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: the Tommy film premier down on the fifty seven Street

684
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: subway station and all those things. So everything that Bill

685
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: said factually is correct. That's how it was. It was

686
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: my I found the office of Steve O. Rooks. I

687
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: know this is he me. He shouldn't. I don't want

688
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: it to be like that because Steve I had been

689
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: a friend of from the very beginning. Um, so Bill

690
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: and I were doing that together. Then when Kit and

691
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: Chris kind of fine, the went THO who said Bill

692
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: and I were offered the management, we were off and

693
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: I remember it was like twelve and a half percent

694
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: commission or something, I remember distinctly, So we kind of

695
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: shared it. Now what happened was that I got headhunted

696
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: by the Stones because the American tours of The Who

697
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: they were pretty good, that Who live show, and you

698
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: saw it, Bob with Tommy I still maintains the best

699
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: live show I've ever seen. Well, it's I have three

700
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: in my mind, and that's one of the top three. Yeah,

701
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: it really was, you know, just those moments listening to

702
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: you with the with the lay everything, it just and

703
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: The Who were an incredible live band. They could play

704
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: out of tune, they could play out of time. But

705
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: that raw energy that came off that stage, much of

706
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: it driven by Mood because he kept towns and going towns,

707
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: and was never exactly I remember watching Moon when people

708
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: don't you literally couldn't believe all that sound was coming

709
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: from one guy. Credible. It's like it had to be

710
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: two people up there. Yeah, it was all over the

711
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: place too. I mean, you know, Pete often had to

712
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: play the drums on the records because Keith just I

713
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: mean he couldn't, you know, and he just had one

714
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: way of doing it. But on stage it was stunning.

715
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: They were stunning. I mean, I've seen some great bands

716
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: like you are, Pearl Jaman this, I mean, you know,

717
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: a lot of good bands. There's a lot of great

718
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: food fighters. But boy, that Who show with Tommy was something,

719
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, with the with the mix of those great

720
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: Who's songs and then you know summertime blues and things

721
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: like that was just incredible shows and everything. So they

722
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: did well. So that Who were playing at the Forum. Uh,

723
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: and Jagger came to see the show, and I think

724
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: Charlie I don't know, and he kind of sidled up

725
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: to me backstage and said, oh, yeah we should talk.

726
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: This was post ultimont, remember, so they had a little

727
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: bit of uh, you know, damaged control. And I never

728
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: thought anything of it, you know, And I went out

729
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: to London didn't think anything. I can't even remember an

730
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: exact date of it, but but we'll get onto that.

731
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: To go to your story, I was really we did everything.

732
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: I remember, great story. Remember walking in with the masters

733
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: of Tommy under my arm into the m c A

734
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: offices at four or four or five Park Avenue. Tony

735
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: Martel was was working there and another guy called Jack

736
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: Lots I think was m c A in the East Coast,

737
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: and I presented Tommy to them, the record playing, and

738
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: they said, don't worry, you've come to the right record company. Absolutely,

739
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: we have just released. We have just done a great job.

740
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: What was the Richard Harris musical? Oh there was one.

741
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: It was like some corny middle of the road sound.

742
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: It was awful. And I knew there and then that

743
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: we had a problem. We had to deal with it

744
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: all ourselves. And that's when I bonded with Frank and

745
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: Frank and said, Frank, you know, these people are totally

746
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: unrelated to the Who. They have nothing in common with

747
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 1: the Who. And you know, these are the days, remember Bob,

748
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: when radio was was Paul Drake and the Archaeo Radio

749
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: twenty records a week, right, it was I mean, you know,

750
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: this business never changes. The words, the names changed, and

751
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: this and that change, and the roots direction may change,

752
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: but that the aim has always been the same. And

753
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: it was really really tough then to for bands like Who.

754
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: They had no home and so I did everything and

755
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: I went back to him and Bill and I but

756
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: to finish the Bill story. Um, obviously we were young.

757
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 1: We had the Stones, we had the Who. I had

758
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: picked up Leonard's skinnerd um, you know, because we put

759
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: them on the tour with the Who in America in

760
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: seventy three. I knew Al Cooper. I got to know

761
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Al Cooper and a few things, and they were on

762
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: the same label, so um Skinner where there was a

763
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: lot going on, and I was young and Bill and

764
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: it was too much for me and Bill, and it

765
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: was difficult to man the Who and the Stones because

766
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: essentially you were it was like now if you had

767
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: Lady Garb, I suppose Nary and Grandy who who which

768
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: artists you give it to? It was kind of there

769
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: was a conflict, and there was there was natural jealousies,

770
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: particularly by Roger and the Who about the stones, and

771
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: the Stones always seemed to be that tad ahead in

772
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: terms of the media. Um, if Roger had taken a look,

773
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: he'd have understood maybe Mick Jandal, Roger Daltrey so Um.

774
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: But it was a difficult situation and Bill and I

775
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: kind of fell out, and we've hardly ways. So I

776
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: stayed with the Stones, He went on with the Who.

777
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I stayed with Skinner, and obviously, because that was my band,

778
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: I signed UM and I've been in America ever since.

779
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: For all intents and purposes. Bill and I didn't talk

780
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: for a while, but then we got together and it

781
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: was all very silly. Why we didn't It was stupid

782
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: and it probably much my fault as anybody's. Um, maybe

783
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: I became a little bit of a diva in those days. Bill,

784
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: as you know, very solid, very measured, very steady. Not me.

785
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: I'm a totally different animal, and i'd probably, like you know,

786
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: it was not a very pleasant person for a while. UM,

787
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: and Bill and I drifted apart. Now we're back. We're

788
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: good friends, very good friends. Okay, So what year did

789
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: the two of you go your separate ways? If Quadrophenia

790
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: was seventy three and the Timmy Movie was seventy five. Yeah, no,

791
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: it was more like seventy seven, seventy eight. I'm trying

792
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: to think of the planet the Skin had plane crash

793
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: with seven. Yeah, uh, it must have been seventies seven.

794
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: Must have been around that bomb. Okay, custody because I

795
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 1: worked Quadrophene. I remember doing Quadrophenia. Boy work in that record,

796
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: and we're doing all the tours. I remember that what

797
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: album came after Quadrophenia? Who's Next? Yes? No, No, Who's

798
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: Next came before Who by Numbers? Who by Numbers? That

799
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: was the album where I shifted out. Okay, let's go

800
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: back to the Stones for a second. So you got

801
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: involved in the seventy two Stones tour. Yeah, that was

802
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: my first tour. Okay, a little bit slower you run

803
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: into Uh, we'll just go so on paper it was

804
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: you and Bill for the Stones. It was me. I'll

805
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: tell you the story. So Jagger sidals up to me

806
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: at the Forum, bladih blah blah. Develum there I hear

807
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: nothing about it. Fly back to England. Um, another guy

808
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: got involved. There was everybody was after the Stones. So

809
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden Corporation, we're in there. David get In

810
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: was in there. Um, and a group of people headed

811
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: up by a guy called John Morris, who you may

812
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: know through Woodstock was one of the guys with Michael

813
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: lang what. He was one of the original partners in Woodstock,

814
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: married to an English girl called Anne Weldon who worked

815
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: for me and Bill. So John was really really trying

816
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: to get the stones, and he was talking the talk,

817
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: and apparently there was a meeting with John Robert h.

818
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: John Morris and the Stones where my name came up.

819
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't know in what context or exactly who brought

820
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: it up, but the short along the short of the

821
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: story is that John Morris called me and said, Peter, um,

822
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: you know the Stones are going with me. Would you

823
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: like to be part of it? And I thought, you know, yeah,

824
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: sure of course I would. I was in New York.

825
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: But then something happened and John Morris suddenly fell out

826
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: of the of the equation and I got a call

827
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: from Rupert Lowenstein. I'm mean, I mean, I hardly really

828
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: didn't know who he was. St Peter, would you come

829
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: the Mick and the boys would like to meet with you.

830
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: Could you be in Los Angeles and meet When they

831
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: were at the Beverly Hills Hotel, meet with us. So

832
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: I flew out. I went to Rupert's bungalow. They were

833
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: all there. We spent about two hours talking. I was

834
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: pretty irreverent. Um, but I'm kind of quickly sussed out

835
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: what the key angles were that Keith was really, we

836
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: don't want to charge more too much money. Mick wanted

837
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: to make sure that the show was spect tacular and profitable. Um.

838
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: And so they said they we we seem to have

839
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: a good conversation. And they said to me, I said,

840
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: I got to fly back to him. I went from

841
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: New York to Los Angeles and I had to fly

842
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: back to England from Los Angeles. Said, will you, um,

843
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, will you make it? Will you make a prophecy?

844
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: Will you know, make an offer? Not an offer, but

845
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: how you would book the tour, how you would do it?

846
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: And um, So I flew back and on that thirteen

847
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: hour flight back, I wrote like about fifteen pages handwritten

848
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: of how I would do the tour, when I would charge,

849
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: where I would play, what I all those things. And

850
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: I sent it to them and it was full of

851
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: swear words, and it was full of it was really illiterate.

852
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a ramble and next thing

853
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: I know, I get a course saying they'd like to

854
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: have another meeting with you about you doing the tour,

855
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: and I was in America. The first tour I did

856
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: was seventy two. The set that finished on July the

857
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: twenty six, seventy two at Madison Square Garden. The next

858
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: tour they did was was Your Then we were going

859
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: to go to Japan. We couldn't because of Keith's drug No,

860
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: it was mixed. It was because of mix um, I

861
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: think the Robert Fraser thing with Mary Anne. Because of

862
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 1: his drug conviction. The Japanese wouldn't let us in. That's

863
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: when we did the Benefit for Nicaragua in Hawaii. But

864
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: the next European tour was seventy three. Bill was my partner,

865
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: so I said, Bill, will you handle it? Will you

866
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: book it? We're partners, And that's where it came that

867
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: it was me and Bill. So in many respects it

868
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: was both Bill and I, but Bill was the Who

869
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: and I was the Stones and all the kind of

870
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: all the key decisions and all the meetings in respect

871
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: to the Stones I attended. Bill didn't, and Bill kind

872
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: of became much closer to the Who than me and

873
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: I became much closer to the Stones, okay, a little

874
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: bit slower. Seventy two tour is in wake of Exile

875
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: on Main Street. You work with the Stones starting in

876
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: seventy two, and when did you stop working with them?

877
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: I stopped. The last tour I did with the Stones, Bob,

878
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 1: was the seventy eight American tour. Yeah, before tattoo you okay,

879
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: So were you only involved in the tours? Were involved

880
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: in creative strategies on the album? What were your responsibilities

881
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: everything at all things? Um? I remember very much being

882
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: not so much with Exile because that was mid recording.

883
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: That was almost kind of like out of the incubator.

884
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: When the time I got involved, they were made. That's

885
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: why they were in the recording that at Sunset. But

886
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: I was very much involved in everything after that. I

887
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: mean you were because the Stones were self managed. I mean,

888
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: Mick ultimately is the is the manager of the Stones,

889
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: and so whoever he's got his his sidekick has to

890
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: really do everything and we had to work very closely

891
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: with Atlantic in an armored and his team in kind

892
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: of coordinating everything. I remember me and Mick going to

893
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: meetings like with Jesse Jackson after some Girls you know,

894
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: because of the line black Girls like to Fuck All Night.

895
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: So I Marshall Chess run Rolling Stones Records. So he

896
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: was the guy who kind of sat inside Atlantic and

897
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: he did the Meters, you know, because the Meters got

898
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: signed to Rolling Stones Records and that, so he was involved.

899
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: But I kind of, Bob, it's a bit like with

900
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: the who you kind of do what you did in

901
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: those days what was necessary to do. And I mean

902
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: I've always said the best model for a band is

903
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: at that three sixty model, where the manager is, the

904
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: agent is, the promoter is, the publisher is the record company,

905
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: because you're only focus is the brand and what's good

906
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 1: for the brand is good for you. I do feel

907
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: that right one of the problems with our industry right

908
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: now it continues to be siloed, where the publishers have

909
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: an agenda that's that benefits the publisher, the labels sell product,

910
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 1: the promoter sell tickets, and you know, sometimes the brand

911
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: and the band get four in between. The problem with

912
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: that model and Ireland had it, and Track had it,

913
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of people have got it and starting

914
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: to come back now. It was subject to a great

915
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: deal of abuse. Financially, there was no checks or balances.

916
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: Then remember the lawyers hadn't taken over our business. So um.

917
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: So into respect to the Stones, I did not get

918
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: paid on the record sales. I got paid on touring,

919
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: okay by the Stones, but with who I got paid

920
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: on records, publishing everything whatever a manager would get. Um.

921
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: But I got very fairly compensated by the Stones on

922
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: all the touring. But I did a lot of them.

923
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: I did a lot of stuff in respect of the Okay,

924
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: so let's go back. You fly back for thirteen hours

925
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: to u K. You say, how much are you going

926
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: to charge? Is it a flat fear into the percentage? No?

927
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: That one when I said charge, it was the ticket prices.

928
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: So the Rolling Stone was four fifty five fifty top price,

929
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: six fifty. That was the prod. That's what it was. Um.

930
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: Keith was adamant that it shouldn't be more than six

931
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: fifty top ticket. Most of them were reserved seating in

932
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: those days, except like the winter Land ball rooms and

933
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: things of that nature. So that that that that's the

934
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: ticket price that for instance applied to Madison Square. Gone.

935
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: Um that I negotiated all the deals. There was no

936
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 1: agent on the Stones tour I did the negotiations directly

937
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: with the Bill grahams, you know, the Don Laws, Larry

938
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: Maggid's whatever, and um. The deals we drove were tough

939
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: and they were kind of I mean this whole conversation again,

940
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: I know you had it with Bill. When did nine

941
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: ten start? Was kind of around in those days because

942
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: Jerry Weintraub was starting to put together national tours. He firstly,

943
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: I think with President you know, first thing, I believe

944
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: with Sinatra he got then he did press Lee with Parker,

945
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: and then he got into the Zeppelin and Grant and

946
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: those deals were garret, but they were predicated. They're calibrated

947
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: on net receipts rather than gross receipts. Back in the

948
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: day before then, for instance, most deals were done in

949
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: the artist favor of the gross okay less maybe applicable

950
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: taxes with a guarantee. So a typical deal for you know,

951
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: a Winterland show would be thirty thousand two dollars against

952
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: or plus. However good an agent or manager you are

953
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: s the grows. Bill Graham had a different deal to

954
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: everybody else. Bill Graham had a fifty fifty deal because

955
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: he was Bill Graham and he was brilliant. I mean

956
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: grew up one of the greatest showman of our time. Brilliant.

957
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: Not a great promoter and ticket seller, but what a producer. Um.

958
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: He used to have fifty fifty because he figured out

959
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: that every the area that promoters tried to cut costs

960
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: on was backstage, and that they did not want to

961
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 1: spend money on food, on drinks, on all those accessories

962
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: that the artists may ask for, that that that's just

963
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: a waste of money. Bill on the other hand, would

964
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: put up palm trees, would put up He'd find out

965
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: that bands, certain bands like table tennis tables. He'd have

966
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: table tennis, he'd have inflatable pools, even he'd have Hawaiian

967
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: cookouts and things like that. What the acts didn't know

968
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: was they were paying for it because Bill got a

969
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: fifty fifty deal and he kind of seduced the artists.

970
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: So the artists would never play San Francisco, would never

971
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: play New York, would never play where without Bill Graham

972
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: and you were stunned because Bill had a favorable deal.

973
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: So the band's made less money, but they had a

974
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 1: better time. But so the Stones tour was based on

975
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: a net deal Um with a guarantee, but we kind

976
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: of there was no there were no flat deals and

977
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: there were no gross deals. There weren't necessary. They're often

978
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: stepped those deals and you get x amount of this

979
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: and this and this great figure. But it was the

980
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: time when it was going from gross because you didn't

981
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: trust the promoter. So you've got what you can, which

982
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: is still the case in some markets, particularly in the

983
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: far eastern India, where you're not going to do an

984
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: audit on an Indian promoter. It's but you try getting

985
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: a real ticket count out of a Japanese promoter, you're

986
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: not going to get it um, so you take the

987
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: money and run. Mentality that that was ending in America

988
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: there was a more transparent then, and with Barcelona in particular,

989
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: because Barcelona's genius was that he didn't just represent acts.

990
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: He found promoters to represent and develop. And what he

991
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: saw was that his acts were going to be abused

992
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: and go nowhere if there wasn't a great promoter there

993
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: who was going to help develop them. So I always

994
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: used Don Laura as a classic example in the Boston area,

995
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you're very familiar with. So Don, so Don, right,

996
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: is there, lovely fresh faced on Law, Buddlewood and melt

997
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: in his mouth, right, clean cut, lovely boy. Okay, Frank

998
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: goes to Don don we need clubs. You've got a

999
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: club Boston, tea party all. And this is why Live

1000
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: is so it is so different from from everything else

1001
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: in the business in terms of its relationship with the artist.

1002
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: Done what we need here? We've only got AM radio,

1003
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: Paul Drake. These bands are not catered for. There's this

1004
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: guy in San Francisco called Tom Donahue who's starting something

1005
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: called FM radio and Case. Then he said, we've got

1006
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: to get on board list with those are the outlets

1007
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: that we can promote our bands through. So Dr Frank

1008
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: I BELOWD Frank was very tight with Tom Donahue and yeah,

1009
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: this is an agent. But Frank had a vision. He

1010
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: saw he said, I got it, I need it, he said,

1011
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: he said. So Frank was very instrumental in fn X,

1012
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: for instance, in Boston with Oedipus, uh MMS in Cleveland,

1013
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: MMR in Philadelphia, Case, then obviously in San Francisco, m

1014
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: ET in Los Angeles, and Frank made sure that his

1015
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: promoters worked with those stations exclusively got the lay wars.

1016
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: He was also the only agent. I know that was

1017
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: really worked cleverly with record companies. He'd be very tight

1018
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: with a Bob riguere at Warners, who was such a

1019
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: cool label, and Moe Austin very tight with Armored and

1020
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 1: Bob Rowlands at Atlantic. So he made sure that those

1021
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: labels supported those stations. And the other thing was to

1022
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: create the Internet of the seventies was we needed newsprint.

1023
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: So don you've got to We've got to support this

1024
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: Boston Phoenix paper. It's underground paper, it's a free newspaper,

1025
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: but it's the one that kids read with the Village

1026
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: Voice in the l a week. So what Frank did

1027
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: was he took these young guys. They had to have

1028
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: a club, they had to have scale and venues that

1029
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: you could scale out. And he represented those promoters. And

1030
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: god forbid you screwed or funk with one of those promoters,

1031
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: or you've screwed or funk Frank because they were out okay,

1032
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: And he would move promoters around. But they were all

1033
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: good promoters. They were all hungry promoters. They loved music.

1034
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: I remember Brian Murphy, who you'll know was I remember

1035
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: the first meeting Brian Murphy. He was production manager for

1036
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: Northwest release and in Seattle. Frank had a big saying

1037
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: Brian coming down to l A and starting up and

1038
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: working in Los Angeles Promotor. So the same with Larry

1039
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: Valence a little bit so who worked when he worked

1040
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: with Steve Wolf and Jim Rismiller. So I think Frank

1041
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: was a genius in that sense that he had that vision,

1042
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: he brought it together. That was our internet. That's the

1043
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: only way we could connect with the kids. There was nothing, really,

1044
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 1: there was no music on TV to talk of. There

1045
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: was there there was. This wasn't tabloid manner. It wasn't

1046
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't kind of you know, mainstream culture. It was

1047
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: a fringe. It was like, you know, I remember the

1048
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: first role in Stone's tour. I did I spend as

1049
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: much time trying to book a hotel as I did

1050
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: a venue. They didn't want us in. They were scared

1051
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: of us. We were a threat. We actually were a threat.

1052
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: And that you know, it was lock up your daughters

1053
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: and the police would get promoted if they bust Keith Richards.

1054
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean, and that there there was genuine fear and um,

1055
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean it leads to fascinating stories, but it was

1056
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: a totally different context that rock and roll thrived in

1057
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: those days, Uma, and it was wonderful. But Barcelona, I'm

1058
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: so happy that I've got the opportunity to say this

1059
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: to whoever's listening to this. Without him, I often wonder

1060
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: would there be live Nation Because Frank was the one

1061
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: who called all the promoters together when wine trout and

1062
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: concerts West, We're going to do the ninety tens apline tours.

1063
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: Because Frank, sorry, he's not stupid, he saw that that

1064
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: would eliminate the need for an agency as well, and

1065
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: and pull them together with Bill Graham in particular, and

1066
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: Bill took the fight and said, look, we cannot do

1067
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: national tours. Um. Of course Bill was one of the

1068
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: first people to do a national tour. He did the

1069
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: stuffs right after me, so you know so. But nonetheless

1070
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: I do wonder, if not how the business would have

1071
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: changed if Frank and Bill had lived a little longer. Um.

1072
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: They both passed far too early, both of them, Bill

1073
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: in particular. Of course, you know, UM fascinating times though,

1074
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: because you look back now and you realize that you

1075
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: were making up all these rules as you went along,

1076
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: and this little cottage industry was morphing into something much bigger. Absolutely,

1077
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: let's go back to seventy two because that was a

1078
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: transformative tour. First, what was your deal with the Stones?

1079
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: I was on a percentage of their profit. Ah Uh,

1080
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: it's is pretty good. I mean I come complain and

1081
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: they made good money. Uh. They were always very fair

1082
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: with me. They gave me a percentage of their profit. Okay,

1083
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: So let's talk seventy two. The Stones always had hit Singleste.

1084
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: They have Let It Bleed. Uh, they do get your

1085
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: yah yahs after that, the live album, they have Altimant.

1086
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: They have a presence. But you could buy tickets for

1087
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: the sur when they go to They hadn't been in

1088
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: America since sixty seventy two. It's literally like the return

1089
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: of God. Okay. There is press everywhere, never mind Rolling Stone,

1090
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: but Life magazine. You have Princess Lee Radzewill on the tour.

1091
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: You have Truman Capodi on the tour, who orchestrated all that. Um.

1092
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound self serving, but that was

1093
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff that me and Mike did.

1094
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: Um mixed brilliant at this is a maestro and he's

1095
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: like be eased to the honey. I mean, people would

1096
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: gravitate around him. What we did by design with that

1097
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: that talk, we booked it very time. We could have

1098
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: gone and played bigger venues, Bob, but there's I have

1099
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: a mantra it's better to turn a hundred people away

1100
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: than have one empty seat. And so it's all about

1101
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: supply and demand creates perception, and we booked it particularly

1102
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: strategically major markets. We booked it the right kind of venues.

1103
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: We also added on elements that other people did hadn't done.

1104
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: For instance, we took any leave of it's as our

1105
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 1: tour photographer. Now, obviously at that time Rolling Stone was

1106
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: by far the largest media platform for music in the world.

1107
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: Annie would have we we would give. We sat with

1108
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: Yan before the tour Yam Winner, and we said, look,

1109
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: you can always have a Rolling Stone journalist on the

1110
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: tour with us. So we had Check Flippo, Bob Greenfield,

1111
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: all the guys. They were always there. I mean, who

1112
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: had Dave Marsh. I think Dave Marsh was doing some

1113
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: string left cream. I think he was around in the

1114
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: role and stumming. I can't remember, but so we had

1115
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: that embedded in the talk. We had Lisa Robinson, the

1116
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: biggest mouth in the business. Then the head of Hopper

1117
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: of rock and Roll embedded in the tour, traveling with us,

1118
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: feeding stuff out every day to gossip columns. We thought

1119
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: of all that stuff because that's the game, that's the show,

1120
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: I mean. And you've got a frontman like the Stones

1121
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: coming off Alter mot with an album like Exile. I

1122
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: don't know, Bob, you're asking me, And when you put

1123
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: it like that, I say, did we And yeah, I

1124
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: suppose we did. We. Also, the production was pretty amazing.

1125
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: That that mirror that the chip Right designed, that was

1126
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: like pretty staggering, and it was really cool because no

1127
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: one had really ever toured with seven super troopers across

1128
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: the stage like that short like throw. I mean, so

1129
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: everything we tried to do we tried to differently. One

1130
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: of the one of the one of the things which

1131
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: isn't doesn't manifest itself in the public arena, but one

1132
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: of the issues we we we our anticipate we anticipated

1133
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: early on. The unions were strong in all these arenas,

1134
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: very very strong, and we kept hearing problems that all

1135
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: these bands had, especially English bands who didn't understand the

1136
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: culture of America in getting cooperation and getting fair bills

1137
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: from the Union guys in the venues, so we unionized.

1138
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: One of the things that I got to know the

1139
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: guys at Madison Square Garden because we were competitors for

1140
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: the tour, and one of the guys I bought Mike Crowley,

1141
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: who was head of security at Madison Square Garden um

1142
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: but he also was kind of general manager and had

1143
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 1: contacts with all the unions. We made out tour unions,

1144
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: so we were the first tour ever to do a

1145
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: union trucking company bonded Clark Transfer out of Philadelphia. We

1146
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,080
Speaker 1: had union everything. So we walked in there they were

1147
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: all old mates because these were the guys. Our crew

1148
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: was essentially picked from all the ice shows and all

1149
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: the circus shows, all the Tommy Collins stuff that came

1150
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: out of Minneapolis. We didn't use rock and roll rhotors.

1151
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: We used hardcore union guys who were on the same team,

1152
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: and we had no problems, no problems at all. The

1153
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: entire toy made it run very smoothly. But we we

1154
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: we would always put on like we bought on a

1155
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: guy called Christopher Sykes, who was kind of part of

1156
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: the aristocracy in Britain, was a photographer and we let

1157
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 1: him photograph and he did a book. We brought Terry

1158
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: Southern in. Terry did a book. We brought in, Um,

1159
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: who else did we bring in on the tour? Um?

1160
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: Well you brought in? Uh wasn't it the Franks who

1161
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: did Coxsucker Blues? Oh? Robert Frank and Danny Seymour. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1162
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: tell us about that. Oh gee, it was a night

1163
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 1: there for me. But you know, Robert was a lovely man.

1164
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: Danny was was tough. He was a heroin addict and

1165
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: he was difficult. That was his kind of a Das

1166
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: his cameraman, Robert was really cool. I mean he just

1167
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: kept to his own world. He hung with Keith most

1168
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: of the time. Um, you know, and he was a

1169
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: fly on the wall wherever he could be. Um. You know,

1170
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: the film never got released. Um, let's talk about that.

1171
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: When the film was done, We're on the street and

1172
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: you're on the inside. Is they saw it and they

1173
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: said this cannot be released. It was not so much

1174
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: for the sex as much it was for drugs. There

1175
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 1: were and not one of the Stones, but other people

1176
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 1: were seen injecting drugs. Um, it was pretty raw, Bob.

1177
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: Um it may not be seen as so raw now, Um,

1178
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: but I wonder whether I know, you know, they they

1179
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: still have not shown it to anybody. It's a fantastic

1180
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 1: piece of film. I mean, Robert frank it's quite a filmmaker.

1181
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: M but it was pretty dark at times. Okay, let's

1182
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: go to the tour. Whose idea is it to do

1183
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: the open pedal stage indoors? It's often these things are

1184
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: a combination of various people's input. You know, you mess around,

1185
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: you go to designers. But Robin Wagner, well again we

1186
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:31,480
Speaker 1: went outside rock and roll. We went to Broadway. Um,

1187
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 1: Jules Fisher and Robin Wagner set designers guys who wont

1188
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 1: tones and we kind of it came out of those conversations.

1189
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: But a lot of it was a bit like on

1190
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: the back of pieces of paper, you know, sketches by

1191
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: Charlie or Mick or Keith giving off to a designer

1192
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: to see what he could come up with. Driven mostly

1193
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 1: by Mick. It was, you know, mostly by Mick. Um.

1194
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: But who had that original idea? God knows, I don't remember.

1195
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: You know, these tours take about a year to set up.

1196
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: Back in those days, Um, the industry didn't quite work

1197
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:16,440
Speaker 1: as efficiently or smoothly as it as it does now. Um,

1198
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: it was. It was a lot more of a cottage industry.

1199
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 1: So um, the whole thing though, I think I'm trying

1200
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 1: to think of Chip was the lighting guy on that

1201
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: or whether he gone he imploded. I'm trying to think

1202
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 1: it was. I think the lighting essentially was designed by

1203
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: Jules Fisher. Okay, so uh, Now Mick Taylor wakes up

1204
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: one day he wants to leave the band. Eventually there

1205
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: are people are auditioned and Ronnie Wood gets the slot.

1206
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: Were you involved in that? No, I was not involved

1207
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: in would he being appointed? Uh, being offered the gig?

1208
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: If that's what you're asking, right, But let's go back

1209
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: a step. Did you foresee Mick Taylor leaving the band?

1210
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: He was he'd become a bit of a loner um,

1211
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: And there was some personality issues developed, I think in

1212
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: particular with Keith and him, uh, which wasn't a good

1213
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: thing as they were the two guitarists. Um. I think

1214
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't enjoying it anymore. And he was a musical purist,

1215
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: I mean he really was. Um. I think he saw

1216
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: his role musically in the band decreasing. I think you

1217
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 1: know that the Stones were looking musically in rather more

1218
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: a different direction from his blues oriented kind of strength.

1219
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: He's not he's not a rhythmicity. He's not like Wood,

1220
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: he doesn't play that role. So but it was I

1221
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: wasn't surprised, boll not. I was not surprised at all.

1222
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't surprised that Bill went. You know, they that

1223
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: you know, both of them were kind of the core

1224
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 1: of that band is McK keith and Charlie l is

1225
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: the one who speaks to everyone. There's always one in

1226
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: the band who speaks to everyone, but usually the drummer

1227
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: is the business guy. Yeah, not Charlie the you know

1228
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: that mixed the one who makes things happen. Keith was

1229
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: the one who could make things not happen. And that's

1230
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 1: a dinner. You know, it's a very imprecise science rock

1231
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,919
Speaker 1: and roll is and that that, you know, the dynamic

1232
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,200
Speaker 1: of a band is is quite amazing. I mean, I've

1233
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 1: worked with Roger Waters for many years, as you know

1234
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:34,839
Speaker 1: I did, and you know I was up close and personally.

1235
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: It's funny, isn't if you take a look at it.

1236
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 1: I Mean, Jabber and Richards went through a period where

1237
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 1: they wouldn't talk to one another, made albums without ever

1238
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: meeting in the studio. Um, you've got the who Townsend

1239
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: adulters animosity and then is Well chronicled the Floyd with

1240
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: Gilmour and waters Well chronicled. I remember going to one

1241
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 1: gig at Nassau Colitey him where the caravans were turned

1242
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: in opposite directions so they would never have to see

1243
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: each other until they actually got on the stage. Um.

1244
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:11,680
Speaker 1: And then you you know, and you've got um uh

1245
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: who page and plan the same thing. It's funny yet

1246
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: those bands of four of the biggest bands ever and

1247
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: you've got to find bands all of each other just

1248
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: die of boredom after one album uh something. You know,

1249
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: it's a it's a unique blend, so unique cocktail rock

1250
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 1: and roll bands. So how do you decide to play

1251
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: stadiums in? Um? The demand was so overwhelming. The business

1252
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: had got to the stage where we could figure out

1253
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: where these states there weren't all stadiums. We could figure

1254
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 1: out where the good you know, we weren't the first

1255
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: in there there were. These promoters had now started to

1256
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: get this down. UM. It probably was driven to some

1257
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: extent by money, but it was a safe play. We

1258
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: knew that these facts, these stadiums could work. We knew

1259
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: that we could sell them out. That's what we weren't

1260
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: sure of in seventy two. Um, you know, and you

1261
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: know we'd we we kind of mixed and matched. We

1262
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: knew we've got to We've got a tour that we

1263
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: could extract data from which would tell us even and

1264
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: it's more in its medieval way back then that we

1265
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,480
Speaker 1: were in pretty safe situation that we could play the JFK's,

1266
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: we could play the Arrowheads, we could play the Liberty

1267
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: Bowls or the Cotton Bowls. We knew what we were

1268
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: doing by then. We got it down and you know,

1269
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: to play in arenas, we we'd have had to play

1270
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,440
Speaker 1: three or four nights in each arena, and just economically,

1271
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. It just didn't make sense. It

1272
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: was I didn't mean to interrupt you, It didn't make

1273
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: sense of Princess Prince Rupert Lowers team. You know, he

1274
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 1: ultimately wrote a book before he died, but he was

1275
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 1: seen as a mysterious genius. Can you is that true?

1276
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: Can you? Reflected all on print Rooper Rupert had a

1277
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 1: unique relationship with the group, but Mick in particular he

1278
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: opened the doors for mix socially in London and Europe.

1279
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: Rupert didn't have a friend who didn't have a title. Um.

1280
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 1: And he he was a director of a very very

1281
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 1: prestigious bank, Leopold Joseph in the city of London. Um.

1282
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: He was a very clever man, very disarming, very good

1283
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: people's schools, very I mean typically I'm a lone still

1284
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 1: doesn't Sundbridge, but a British aristocrat. Um. He was very

1285
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: clever in advising Mike on money and the stones tag

1286
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: set up, which he's you know, was sophisticated, which many

1287
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: people including like now you two everybody is is in

1288
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: the same scheme, very legal, um. But um. He he

1289
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: kept himself very much a part for rock and roll,

1290
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean rock and roll. It could have been anything

1291
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: for Rupert, you know, it didn't have to be music,

1292
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 1: but he he he worked Mick very well and Mick

1293
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: worked him very well. So you know when Princess Margaret

1294
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: happened to come to an Earl's Court show, it was

1295
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: Rupert was that she was Rupert's guest. Um. Often like

1296
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: Nancy Reagan and Jerry Zipkin would come to a show

1297
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 1: in l a Rupert's guest. Um. He kind of was

1298
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: that side of helped create that side of the rolling Stones,

1299
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: which Mick is a master at manipulating master, And it

1300
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 1: was very important to Mike, very important that status, that

1301
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: ability to to to associate and mix with the Hollywood elite,

1302
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: the social elite. Arm It also served that purpose in

1303
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: some ways for Mick. Um. It was Rupert and Mick

1304
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: and Rupert and arm It were very friendly and they would,

1305
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, spend a lot of time together in the

1306
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,799
Speaker 1: Mediterranean in the summer. So but Mick kind of worked

1307
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:36,600
Speaker 1: them all extremely well. And he's Mick. He's one of

1308
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: a kind. He's quite unique as Mr Jagger. So how

1309
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,759
Speaker 1: does it end with you in the stars, I think, Bob,

1310
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: it just after the biggest crisis in my life was

1311
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 1: the Lenin skin and plane crush. Okay, so it threw

1312
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 1: me completely under the bus. Um some ways. I I

1313
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 1: haven't recover of it from it. Um. I certainly haven't

1314
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 1: got closure on it. Um. And I kind of went

1315
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 1: off the rails and I think, you know, the stones felt.

1316
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: I've done three tours of America, three tours of Europe.

1317
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: Everything runs its course, you know, it's just all this

1318
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 1: business is as much about relationships. We all basically can

1319
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: do the same job. It's you know, we may color

1320
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,759
Speaker 1: it a little differently. It may be you know, slightly tweaked,

1321
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: but essentially we you know, we were just fulfill of

1322
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: function and UM it run its course. Bob, Well did

1323
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: you look keep going? Did you leave good terms? Yeah? Yeah,

1324
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: we left on good terms. Oh no, no, absolutely. UM.

1325
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 1: I always got on very well with with Mi. We

1326
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: went and watched a lot of cricket together, we vacationed together. UM.

1327
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: I had a lot of respect for him. Um, I'm Keith,

1328
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, because in those days, Keith at certain lifestyle

1329
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: habits that you know, I as the manager or tour manager,

1330
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, I had to try and combat the potential

1331
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: ramifications of We never really got close, but we've been

1332
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 1: closed since because Jane Rose as his manager, and Jane

1333
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: Rose worked for me and I introduced to the key,

1334
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: so she was one of my employees. Um when I

1335
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: was had my offices in New York. Um, so we've

1336
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: all kept pretty tight. Charlie is a lovely man. You know.

1337
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm not in touch with Charlie, but if I saw him,

1338
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 1: there'd be a big hugs. Okay, So let's switch over

1339
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,919
Speaker 1: to Leonard Skinner. How do you actually make the decision

1340
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 1: to manage them? As they say al Couprez sounds of

1341
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: the South, which is district out of it Land and

1342
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: distributed by m c A. But walk us through how

1343
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 1: you seal the deal and then what you do with Skinner. Well,

1344
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, we put them on UM as support

1345
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: for the WHO in that seventy three tour. And they

1346
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 1: were managers, you just said, by Alan Walden and represented

1347
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: by paragon Um, which was Alex Hodges and Terry Rhodes,

1348
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: so very much embedded in the South in Macon, Georgia,

1349
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: which was you know, the epicenter of Southern Rock. I

1350
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: just liked them, and they were not I thought they

1351
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: were phenomenal live Um. I thought Ronnie van Zandt, who

1352
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: could barely read or write, was one of the smartest

1353
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: guys I've ever ever met. His instincts were incredible. Um.

1354
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: He was bright as attack. And we got to know

1355
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: each other and they seemed to be Basically they asked me, Bob,

1356
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 1: I suppose if it comes down to it, would you

1357
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: like to managers? Remember at that time, you know, I

1358
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 1: was jacked the ladd in a way who stones blahih

1359
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. They were a small band trying to

1360
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 1: break it. I obviously shown my belief in them by

1361
01:21:55,800 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 1: putting them on the hut or Um. They weren't getting

1362
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: on very well with with Alan Um. Phil was capit corner.

1363
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:07,559
Speaker 1: They were on m c A. So there was no

1364
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: love lost between anyone in macon Um Alex and Terry,

1365
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, they were okay um and it just it

1366
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: wasn't anything extraordinary. It was just one day, Ronnie said,

1367
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,719
Speaker 1: I firing Alan Walden or we are will you manage

1368
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: just Limy Becaus called me the Limy and and that

1369
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: was it. That was a great relationship. I mean, I

1370
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:39,920
Speaker 1: loved Leonard Skinner um and I feel very proud of

1371
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 1: what we accomplished together. I mean, a week after the

1372
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: plane crash, we were going to co headline Madison Square Garden,

1373
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: which right back in those days for a Southern man

1374
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 1: to be at that point was pretty incredible. One of

1375
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 1: the proudest moments of my life was I book Leonard

1376
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: skin and we book Leonard Skinner on the Stones ned Worth,

1377
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: oh in England. And I knew obviously what the stage

1378
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 1: was going to be and I knew the stage was

1379
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 1: going to be the tom and the tong was gonna

1380
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, snake out into the audience. And so I

1381
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 1: got the three guitarists incredible because you had to have

1382
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 1: and then long guitar leads that they could march down

1383
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 1: that that that that that tom right into the middle

1384
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: of the audience. It upset Mick a bit because that

1385
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: was supposed to be saved there. But no one, no

1386
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: one thought that they could get down there because everything

1387
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: was like you know wide in those days, it wasn't

1388
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: and there was no wireless um. And they came down

1389
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: that ramp doing three give me three steps and it

1390
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: was one of the great rock and roll moment. I

1391
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 1: still visitized, and I remember McCarty sitting on the side saying, Wow,

1392
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: what a man, and you kind of like I was

1393
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: felt so proud, but that crash was just devastating, just

1394
01:23:54,680 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: just devastating for me personally, just and for them, I mean, god, yeah,

1395
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 1: And I've never had closure. I've never spoken to any

1396
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: of them since. There were lawsuits that followed, obviously, you know,

1397
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: which I understand I was sued, but it was all

1398
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: settled and there was no exchange of money. It was

1399
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: just you know, things against me weigh because it was

1400
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 1: all quite you know, it was handled properly, legally. The charter,

1401
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 1: I mean, the damn plane run out of gas. They

1402
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:35,759
Speaker 1: had a faulty fuel gauge. That's what happened. That's what happened.

1403
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: And Ronnie van Zand being the cowboy that he was,

1404
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, when the plane was coming down, they were

1405
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: looking for a clearing. He said, I'm going up with

1406
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 1: my pilots. You know, they the stay at the back

1407
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: of the plane. He lived as he may have been,

1408
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:54,400
Speaker 1: you know, physically impaired, God forbid, but everyone in the

1409
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,600
Speaker 1: back of the plane survived. He goes, walks up and

1410
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: puts his arm around the two pilots. You know, that's Ronnick,

1411
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, stair awaiting whatever. Uh, pretty sobering. How did

1412
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: how did you find out? Well, it's very interesting. We'd

1413
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: opened the tour at the sports a Toorium, probably the

1414
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 1: worst venue ever in Miami, Florida. And the next day

1415
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 1: we played Asheville, North Carolina, and from Nashville, North Carolina,

1416
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 1: the band were to fly to Baton Rouge. We're going

1417
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,479
Speaker 1: to shoot a video that the and they we're going

1418
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: to play Baton Rouge. I was in Miami. I was

1419
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:40,759
Speaker 1: on the plane the charge of playing. We flew into Asheville,

1420
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: North Carolina. I was at the gig. Next day we

1421
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 1: were ready to go to Baton Rouge. I was kind

1422
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 1: of on the plane. I get a phone call. One

1423
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 1: of my non music specific ventures that I got involved

1424
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 1: with was a soccer team in the NFL. I was

1425
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 1: one of a group of music business people Jerry Moss,

1426
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:11,280
Speaker 1: Terry Right, Terry Ellis, Frank Barcelona Di, Anthony, Peter Frampton,

1427
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: Paul Simon who applied for the Philadelphia franchise the Philadelphia Fury.

1428
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: I was because I was English. I was on kind

1429
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 1: of the management committee. And I got a call just

1430
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: before the flight was supposed to take off for Baton

1431
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:33,560
Speaker 1: Rouge that I was urgently required in New York City

1432
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 1: because the NSL Commissioner was going to hear our, you know,

1433
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: hopefully approve our application for the franchise in Philadelphia. I

1434
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: got off the plane. I jumped on an Eastern Airlines

1435
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:50,839
Speaker 1: flight into La Guardia Airport. I got off the plane

1436
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 1: and I'm walking up the gangway and um, I see

1437
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:01,839
Speaker 1: at the end my attorney I know my back uh,

1438
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: and Skinner's attorney and my number two Mary Beth Medley,

1439
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 1: who worked for me in the office, and I said,

1440
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? Why do you come to

1441
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:12,840
Speaker 1: the headport to meet me? And they told me, uh

1442
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: and uh, that's on you, okay, the way the way

1443
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,719
Speaker 1: you tell the story since you were on the plane,

1444
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:30,600
Speaker 1: and it off any survivors guilt, Yeah, a little, um, yeah,

1445
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 1: a little bob, A little depends what mood of dime

1446
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 1: in the day it is and when it is. But yeah,

1447
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm very, very very mixed emotions about the whole thing.

1448
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: Of course, so you say, and understandably it put you

1449
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 1: into a tail spin and you'd finished the Stones tour

1450
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 1: needles to say, this was the end of the Skinner tour?

1451
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: Where did that leave you personally? Personally, I didn't want

1452
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 1: to be in the music business. I wanted out m Um,

1453
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, I had no appetite UM, and I let

1454
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: things go drunk too much, took too many drugs, um,

1455
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:20,479
Speaker 1: just lost track of life. I then I pulled myself

1456
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 1: together and a great friend of mine, Joe Cohen, who

1457
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: was running Madison Square Garden at the time, had just

1458
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: started up his cable television network Madison's MSG TV, and

1459
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 1: a relationship that I had made through through the Stones

1460
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 1: really was with Warholes Factory, and I was very friendly

1461
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 1: with them all, in particular Vincent Fremont, who ran it,

1462
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: and so I kind of got involved with producing television shows,

1463
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: one of which was the Andy Warhole TV Show and

1464
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: Andy hosted and don't many people know this a TV show?

1465
01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 1: We did six episodes of it. I've got them all

1466
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 1: off old cassettes in my garage and I did that

1467
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 1: and I messed around with that for a while, but

1468
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:10,120
Speaker 1: it did, it didn't. The drug wasn't powerful enough. I

1469
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 1: missed music. I I I the appetite started to come back,

1470
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: and you know, but I was out of touch, you know,

1471
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 1: you know this business miss a day and everyone forgets

1472
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: your phone number. So um. But then one day out

1473
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: of the blue, I get a call from Roger Waters,

1474
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 1: um partner who had known for years. Um. I first

1475
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: met her when she was David Entos from his girlfriend

1476
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 1: at the first isle of White Festival, and Roger asked it,

1477
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: and I'd know I'd met him before through a roar

1478
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 1: kind of We were friends. The Floyd Camp and I

1479
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: were friends. I knew them all because I said, you know,

1480
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 1: I would be very interested if you come and manage me. Now, yeah,

1481
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: I said, right, this could be a lifeline. Back in

1482
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: um Roger had left the Floyd. His partner Caroline had

1483
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 1: turned round to him in bed one day and said, Roger,

1484
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: you should leave without you there is no Pink Floyd.

1485
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 1: Um uh. And then I looked. That taught us all

1486
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: about the power of a brand. But I managed Roger.

1487
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 1: It was pretty tough because there was a lot of

1488
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 1: litigation going on over who owned what obviously, in particular

1489
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:47,519
Speaker 1: who owned the name now. Then the business manager for

1490
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: the Pink Floyd, who are Rock and the band had

1491
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: hired was Rupert Lonstein. So I had a pretty good

1492
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: relationship with Rupert, which helped. I had a very long

1493
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: standing relationship with Stepho and I've always been very good

1494
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,040
Speaker 1: friends with Dave Gilmour from the days at Cambridge and

1495
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: we actually share the same birthday. So I mean I

1496
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 1: was stuck in the middle. I've got Roger over here

1497
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: and I got you know, the Floyd guys over there,

1498
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 1: and I kind of we got stuck. I got, you know,

1499
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 1: we got through some sort of negotiation whereby Roger couldn't

1500
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 1: do the Wall and its entirety, but he could do

1501
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 1: x amount of songs as long as they weren't altogether,

1502
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:30,640
Speaker 1: and the Floyd could do this. Bottom line is we

1503
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 1: both decided to tour. Roger Waters put on an album

1504
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 1: called Radio Chaos. You may remember it or may not.

1505
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: Jim Ladd came out, played the disc jockey, brilliant show,

1506
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 1: great you know, great production fantas Nick Pink Floyd went

1507
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 1: out the same time. No Roger Waters um so first

1508
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:57,839
Speaker 1: dates go up Toronto, Roger's playing maple Leaf, Pink Floyder

1509
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,719
Speaker 1: on sale across the road at the Baseball Staying whatever.

1510
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 1: Roger thousand tickets, Pink Floyd thirty tickets. And so it

1511
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 1: was around America. And it was the most difficult, most depressing,

1512
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 1: most awful thing to have to man get through with him.

1513
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 1: His ego was crushed. We realized that you can't you know,

1514
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 1: the Floyd were the first real brand when none of

1515
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 1: the individuals meant more than the combination. And we got

1516
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,439
Speaker 1: I mean, we got through it. But it was not

1517
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 1: a pleasant experience. Um and but he gave me my

1518
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 1: foothold back into music and then Bills this black put

1519
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:46,799
Speaker 1: me together with Duran Duran and I started to manage

1520
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 1: them and this is all in the eighties, um, and

1521
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 1: that you know, that went okay. But we put out

1522
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 1: an album. It was a dog called Liberty. Um. We

1523
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 1: did the greatest hits, which did well. And then they

1524
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: wrote this song called Ordinary World. And I took that

1525
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: song around everyone I knew in the industry and said,

1526
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: Duran durand new song. Roger Aimeson, forget it, Peter, you

1527
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 1: know Duran durannor over And that's what I got everywhere Duran.

1528
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: If it wasn't Dran Duran, it would be fine. And

1529
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:30,559
Speaker 1: I just sat with the guys and I said, I

1530
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:35,200
Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. Guys, It's just you know, I'm

1531
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm just getting knocked back. And you know, if you

1532
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 1: can't convince the sellers, you'll they will never convince the customers.

1533
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:45,759
Speaker 1: So um it did. The rest is history. Alan Kovac

1534
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 1: picked it up and it was the record or the

1535
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: song that obviously launched the second half of their career. Fortunately,

1536
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean very good friends. I have a lot of

1537
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:56,840
Speaker 1: respect for Duran Duran and Nick Rhodes. They could have

1538
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,120
Speaker 1: easily gone under. They are the first major pop and

1539
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:06,519
Speaker 1: that really survived in many respects before we got to

1540
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 1: the Backstreet Boys, and but they were very much a

1541
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 1: singles band and not seen as a legitimate rock band.

1542
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,000
Speaker 1: UM and of course you know they were the first

1543
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 1: video band, the first glam band. Boy or boy have

1544
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 1: they done well? I mean they were going to headline

1545
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 1: Isle of Wight this summer, going to headline Hyde Park

1546
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:29,479
Speaker 1: this summer. A lot of respect for how they've done it. UM,

1547
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,799
Speaker 1: So you walk away? I think that's nine two ordinary

1548
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 1: world could be ninety? Are you walk just about? You

1549
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:42,719
Speaker 1: walk away from Duran? Duran? What's your next move? Next

1550
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 1: move is that I'm living in America back and I'm

1551
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:53,480
Speaker 1: sending some time in America. And um Phonogram or Mercury

1552
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 1: UK say, there's this great band we've got called James.

1553
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 1: UM we think they can break them America. Would you

1554
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:05,880
Speaker 1: help us out? So I became co manager of James

1555
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: with their existing manager Martin, who was the singer's girlfriend.

1556
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 1: And this was just pre laid and um lay did

1557
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:26,880
Speaker 1: phenomenally well. UM James were always a great life band

1558
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: and we really I think at one point we shipped

1559
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:35,920
Speaker 1: platinum in America. UM of the album UM and this

1560
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:40,200
Speaker 1: is before it got picked up in the American buy movies. Um,

1561
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:46,639
Speaker 1: and if we really did well Martin, the band fell

1562
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: out with and I became the sole manager of them.

1563
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: And it's a band that didn't make a lot of

1564
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:56,600
Speaker 1: money back in the day, had a lot of problems.

1565
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 1: They're very dysfunctional, but their true mus I was seven

1566
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 1: of them. Um. How they've survived is a test for

1567
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 1: me to live. They're a great life man. They've never

1568
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: been a fashionable band, but they've been very respectful of

1569
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:17,080
Speaker 1: their fans, very you know, in every respect. They have

1570
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: a great connection. They do not allow any gouging of

1571
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,439
Speaker 1: the fans or abusing and they're selling more tickets right

1572
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:26,599
Speaker 1: now than they've ever sold. We have a tour next

1573
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 1: year in arenas you know, oh to Manchester Arena. Primarily

1574
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:35,800
Speaker 1: one market to two or three markets actually. But I've

1575
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 1: managed them for thirty years, Bob. They're like my kids,

1576
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 1: you know. And every time I've told Tim Booth, the singer,

1577
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: to go right, he's got left and he's often he's

1578
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 1: beaten me there, um, you know. And they haven't had

1579
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:52,639
Speaker 1: the biggest career of anyone in the world, but they've

1580
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: had a great career and that their shows are fantastic.

1581
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 1: They just I still love going and standing in the

1582
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: audience and watching them. I must have seen them five times,

1583
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: and that it just gives me energy. I love them.

1584
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: We're you know, I love their music, I love everything.

1585
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 1: And they allow me to manage them. And I think

1586
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: that's one of the problems I've had in my career

1587
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: is I don't have a lot of patients. Um I

1588
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: need to know that my role in an artist or

1589
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:32,679
Speaker 1: a client's career is respected and and and the lines

1590
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:36,080
Speaker 1: are divided, and when the artist starts telling me how

1591
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 1: to manage the artist, it's kind of over there. I

1592
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 1: don't care about any contract. It's like relationships, you know, uh,

1593
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:47,640
Speaker 1: you know when it's over. I mean, I've managed a

1594
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,439
Speaker 1: lot of that madness. I've managed this one. I managed that,

1595
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:55,680
Speaker 1: And I'd rather walk. I'd rather just go because I

1596
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,600
Speaker 1: don't want to be there. If I don't believe that

1597
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:01,599
Speaker 1: something's right, I'd rather walk. I think I think managers

1598
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:07,640
Speaker 1: get a raw deal actually, in terms of of of

1599
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:12,679
Speaker 1: how they're compensated. For instance, there's there's a situation where

1600
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, by the complete accident, there's everything we've mentioned

1601
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 1: so far has basically been rock and roll or contemporary.

1602
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:24,599
Speaker 1: I'm looking for the next Foo Fighters, the next Leonard Skinner,

1603
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: the next Stones whatever. And suddenly I get hit on

1604
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 1: the back of the head by someone called Il Divo,

1605
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:36,960
Speaker 1: and and and and Columbia and Stringer and everybody said,

1606
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:38,800
Speaker 1: come on, you can manage, you'll deva, You'll be really

1607
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:42,240
Speaker 1: good at doing all that. And I said, oh, come on,

1608
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 1: this is everything that I got in the business to get.

1609
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, I detest and I heard the song there,

1610
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 1: you know, their operatic version of Umbrake my heart. I said, yeah,

1611
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:56,080
Speaker 1: this has got something. I can get on board with this.

1612
01:38:57,040 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: And I got on board. I gone on board with it.

1613
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:05,360
Speaker 1: These are four guys who were casts rather like a movie,

1614
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 1: beautiful voices, handsome, you know, everything you need. It was

1615
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Chippen Dail's with voices. And then they got to the

1616
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: point where they were telling me they wanted to write

1617
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: their own albums, do their solo albums, and this and that,

1618
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 1: and I just said, no, you know that's not it's

1619
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 1: a train wreck. I promise you you don't do it.

1620
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 1: It's a trainer. You've got something that really works, you've

1621
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:29,840
Speaker 1: got a brand, you've got to you've got a fan

1622
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,960
Speaker 1: base that are so loyal to you. You've got, whether

1623
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:36,400
Speaker 1: you like him or not, Simon Cowell adds a great

1624
01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 1: deal of value to you, and it's he hasn't He

1625
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: has a lot of leverage within the Sony hierarchy, and

1626
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 1: he's your champion. He may disagree with him about certain

1627
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:50,880
Speaker 1: repertoire choices or certain mixes. Get over it, guys. You've

1628
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: you've made millions, millions, You've sold thirty five million albums, um.

1629
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 1: But they couldn't, you know, the ego took over this.

1630
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 1: So we've been you know, and you walk away from it.

1631
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 1: And then with with Ball and Bow, I took on.

1632
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 1: After that, I became known as the kind of guy

1633
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 1: who knows how to do these classical crossover things. So

1634
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 1: I started to manage a guy called Alfie Bow who

1635
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:20,960
Speaker 1: uh you know, came through, Uh, came to everyone's attention.

1636
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 1: He was in Lemits, fantastic voice, lovely guy working last night.

1637
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:29,639
Speaker 1: So I am, but his career was in the weeds.

1638
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:33,040
Speaker 1: He released an album which was unsuccessful. He released another

1639
01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: album under my stewardship, which was so so, but not

1640
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,519
Speaker 1: what it was needed in that kind of field. So

1641
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 1: I came up with the idea with Phil boundary of

1642
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 1: creating UH an entity called Ball and Bow. Michael Ball

1643
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:56,559
Speaker 1: is a well known West End performer, host TV shows,

1644
01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:00,600
Speaker 1: very got his own radio show on Radio two. Alph is,

1645
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:04,080
Speaker 1: I thought, right, one on one makes three, let's go.

1646
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,160
Speaker 1: I've always believed that if you get it at one

1647
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:09,439
Speaker 1: on one makes three. Um, so we put it together.

1648
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: Um number one record, biggest selling album of two thousand

1649
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:19,519
Speaker 1: and eighteen in Britain, selling out O two, selling out

1650
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 1: all over the place. Alph. He wants to do a

1651
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 1: solo album and he doesn't like kind of this crossover.

1652
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: He wants to do a blues arm or He's not

1653
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: quite sure, but he wants to do an album that

1654
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the genre of music that

1655
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: he's known for. And he said, so, I said, I'll

1656
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 1: walk away from it. Then, you know, we we sit

1657
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 1: down and we start to negotiate with the lawyer and

1658
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 1: what we call the post term Commission. And I said,

1659
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: I think I should You got it, Bob, You've got it.

1660
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 1: I said, I think I should have a consideration on

1661
01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: board and both I created or was instrumental with Phil

1662
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:03,120
Speaker 1: Baodry Michael's marriage in creating that intellectual property, and I

1663
01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:06,440
Speaker 1: should be compensated if I if I was the producer

1664
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 1: of the record, I'd get an override for my three

1665
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:12,760
Speaker 1: or four points. I said, why don't managers? And it's

1666
01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:16,679
Speaker 1: the thing that's bummed me a lot that I feel that.

1667
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 1: You know, management is a monst name. I love it

1668
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:21,840
Speaker 1: because it's the only thing I've really ever done. The

1669
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:27,080
Speaker 1: lows are devastating, but the highs are phenomenal. But I

1670
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 1: do think that we should have you know, normally that

1671
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:33,759
Speaker 1: the lawyers just cut you off after three months, three years, whatever.

1672
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 1: But I think we should have a continuing interest in

1673
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 1: things of that nature when we launched them. Um, because

1674
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:43,679
Speaker 1: intellectual properties, god knows. I mean, look at those struggling

1675
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:46,839
Speaker 1: photographers we used to let backstage back in the seventies

1676
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:49,519
Speaker 1: and eighties. They've now got their photographs exhibited in the

1677
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 1: tape Museum. You know what, what what do we give them?

1678
01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 1: We gave him a PhotoPass, we got nothing. Um, So

1679
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:58,720
Speaker 1: intellectual property is many respects the name of the game,

1680
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 1: and managers get short. I believe in that respect, I

1681
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 1: do believe managers the management contract should be re calibrated

1682
01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 1: to acknowledge those types of things. Okay, but let's uh

1683
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 1: forgetting this COVID era where everything's up in the air. Uh.

1684
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:19,600
Speaker 1: Live Nation first calls SFX THNK, Well clear channel is

1685
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:24,120
Speaker 1: rolled up. Starting in the frank Barcelona model starts to

1686
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:28,200
Speaker 1: die and then goes completely under. We have mass management

1687
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:32,439
Speaker 1: companies over at Live Nation in red light. What and

1688
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 1: the businesses mature as opposed to the era you're talking

1689
01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:39,200
Speaker 1: about where we were making it up and figuring it out.

1690
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 1: What's your viewpoint on today's business? Oh boy, that's a

1691
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:52,519
Speaker 1: big question. Um. I don't enjoy it obviously like I did,

1692
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 1: But then I'm seventy four, so i'm I am you

1693
01:43:57,360 --> 01:43:59,679
Speaker 1: know everything that I got in the business during place.

1694
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 1: Um uh an old white man. I think it works

1695
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:13,679
Speaker 1: obviously far more efficiently. I think it is far less

1696
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:25,240
Speaker 1: spiritual is the wrong word, but it's far more clinical. Um.

1697
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:33,760
Speaker 1: I believe that the star making machine is so contrived

1698
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 1: right now it's um, it's it's unhealthy. Um. I mean

1699
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:46,880
Speaker 1: Colonel Tom pork Parker made Presley as a star. But

1700
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:52,240
Speaker 1: what we're doing now with where the visual is sometimes

1701
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:57,120
Speaker 1: more important than the audio, does bother me. I always

1702
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,679
Speaker 1: think that Live is healthier, but I think it's now

1703
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:06,840
Speaker 1: oversubscribed as it's become the primary income stream. UM Live

1704
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:09,439
Speaker 1: Nation is nothing but a roll up of those Larry

1705
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:13,840
Speaker 1: Maggot's Don Laws, Brian Murphers. It's the same guys with

1706
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: a corporate cloak and a very astute, astute guy in charge.

1707
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 1: Michael Rappino was some very able assistance. Cathy Willard, Joe

1708
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:30,679
Speaker 1: um and co. Arthur Friedman is still there doing his stuff.

1709
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: You know, as I've said before in things, and I

1710
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:36,360
Speaker 1: think you've commented on it. You know, I've known these

1711
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:39,560
Speaker 1: promoters same Delsoner all my life in New York. He

1712
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:41,400
Speaker 1: did the first show I ever did in New York

1713
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 1: after the met at Forest Hills. In that time, I've

1714
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:48,280
Speaker 1: met thirty or come across the dirty presidents of Columbia

1715
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:54,120
Speaker 1: Records or Atlantic Records or things like that. UM, I

1716
01:45:54,200 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 1: don't like I'm involved with the project now. As one

1717
01:45:58,160 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 1: project of last year, I decided basically I'm gonna like

1718
01:46:02,040 --> 01:46:06,200
Speaker 1: kind of kind of step out a little bit. I

1719
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:09,799
Speaker 1: was I'm tired, okay, And I got rid of Alfie

1720
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:13,559
Speaker 1: Bow and I stayed with James because I'll always stay

1721
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:17,200
Speaker 1: with James. Another kid who you know, Stephen Wilson because

1722
01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:19,479
Speaker 1: I like him because he's got his own lane, he

1723
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 1: does his own thing. He you know, he's got this

1724
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 1: great relation to it. I just loved the kid and

1725
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: what he what he does. And I signed an unknown girl, uh,

1726
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 1: completely unknown. She was a cover's girl. She was signed,

1727
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 1: but she was signed to Atlantic when she was thirteen.

1728
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 1: She's now nineteen and they're going to release her first

1729
01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 1: real record in two weeks time. And it's it was

1730
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:46,840
Speaker 1: al really, I thought, stirring example of artist development as

1731
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:52,559
Speaker 1: opposed to product placement. UM. And I'm enjoying it. It's

1732
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of it's like going to the first dance again.

1733
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:59,880
Speaker 1: I'm loving it, UM, but I find it so soulless, Bob.

1734
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:05,639
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really soulless UM. And you know they're

1735
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:09,160
Speaker 1: looking at nothing kind of impresses them. They sit there

1736
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:14,679
Speaker 1: like looking at numbers and looking at Gator social media influences,

1737
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:18,080
Speaker 1: and I get all that, and influencers are important. We

1738
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:20,760
Speaker 1: had our own thing of did the similar thing. I

1739
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:23,880
Speaker 1: get it, I get brands, and I get planned social media.

1740
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 1: We're all still trying to do the same thing that

1741
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:28,719
Speaker 1: we did years ago. It's not it's the same game,

1742
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 1: but it's too big. This The mediocrity at middle management

1743
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 1: is appalling, and I mean, I don't have to tell

1744
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm preaching to the church here. And top

1745
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 1: management is just so removed from the day to day

1746
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 1: culture of the music business now that I just I

1747
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: think they've squeezed the entrepreneurs out of the business because

1748
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:57,559
Speaker 1: they're so risk adverse. Because corporations should not be in

1749
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,599
Speaker 1: the music business. They just shouldn't. I mean, what are

1750
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:06,719
Speaker 1: Vivendi doing running a record company, I you know, other

1751
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 1: than to make money to sell it no other reason. Um.

1752
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:14,880
Speaker 1: I think Lucien, given the cards he's been dealt, whether

1753
01:48:14,920 --> 01:48:17,759
Speaker 1: it's done, a fantastic job. But I think the whole

1754
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 1: model is broken. Just like I feel the political system

1755
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 1: is broken, I think the music businesses system structure is broken.

1756
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 1: There was one meeting that I've broken about ten years ago,

1757
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:35,920
Speaker 1: maybe maybe less. I managed to get Michael Rappino and

1758
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: Lucien Grange in the same room and I said, you

1759
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:43,959
Speaker 1: guys are in the same business. You should join forces

1760
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:47,200
Speaker 1: for the betterment of your artists and the business. And

1761
01:48:47,240 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 1: my suggestion was I said both. I said, I said, Michael,

1762
01:48:51,680 --> 01:48:53,880
Speaker 1: you just take bands for one night stance. We all

1763
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 1: know that it's a cash business. You win big, you

1764
01:48:57,080 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 1: lose big, but it's you know, you've got no really

1765
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: will stake in the game. You Lucy and signed a

1766
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 1: band for seven albums, eight albums when they start. If

1767
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:10,080
Speaker 1: they're successful, they spend the rest of their career negotiating

1768
01:49:10,120 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 1: that contract. If they're unsuccessful. Nowadays you're drop them after

1769
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:17,600
Speaker 1: one album, or you're you're dropping after the first midweek. Okay,

1770
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,320
Speaker 1: I said, but why don't you get your heads together?

1771
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:23,360
Speaker 1: And I think that you Live Nation should get three

1772
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:27,280
Speaker 1: points on any artist or developed artists that you and

1773
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:32,639
Speaker 1: Universal agree on, and three points on their next record,

1774
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:35,040
Speaker 1: and you should guarantee the label that you will give

1775
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:39,519
Speaker 1: them thirty forty dates in the US. And so there's

1776
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 1: some more scientific, more strategic play, and you both get

1777
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:48,240
Speaker 1: reports and you've Universal will get money from the gigs

1778
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:51,600
Speaker 1: in kind in a similar in kind to the to

1779
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:54,759
Speaker 1: the points that Live Nation will get on the record

1780
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:57,920
Speaker 1: of the part. I just feel that, you know, we've

1781
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 1: just got to close ranks on all this. Why we've

1782
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 1: got all these silos around which are running this bit

1783
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 1: the business at the moment, I don't get it, Bob.

1784
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't to me. It's not working long term and

1785
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:14,760
Speaker 1: artists development as you well know. I mean, it's like

1786
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:17,040
Speaker 1: the checks in the mail, isn't it. It's just not

1787
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 1: it's not there. Um, So I can't say that I

1788
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:26,960
Speaker 1: think it's wonderful, but it never was wonderful, you know.

1789
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 1: And when you've got something successful and you kind of

1790
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:33,280
Speaker 1: think it's great, and when something is unsuccessful you blame everybody.

1791
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 1: But I've always felt that if you've got a hit,

1792
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:40,120
Speaker 1: you stand out of the way, you just open the door.

1793
01:50:40,120 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 1: And as a manager, all I can do is it

1794
01:50:43,120 --> 01:50:45,519
Speaker 1: the six doors, and my artists has to go through one.

1795
01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 1: I point to the door that I think will serve

1796
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:50,680
Speaker 1: my arts is best in going through, and on the

1797
01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 1: other side there's something meaningful for him. Um. I think

1798
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 1: the lawyers are far too involved with this. I think

1799
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 1: they've become there and our dives often their first advice

1800
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 1: to an artists, don't take an up manager because you

1801
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:04,760
Speaker 1: won't have to pay a commission on the on the

1802
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:07,840
Speaker 1: album or the publishing deal. Well that's kind of like

1803
01:51:08,400 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 1: self defeat and it's stupid because a then no manager

1804
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:15,000
Speaker 1: wants to work, should work for two years for no

1805
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:18,280
Speaker 1: money at all. And I know that the lawyers will say, well,

1806
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:22,160
Speaker 1: I can charge you fifteen thousand pounds fifteen dollars to

1807
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 1: do this contract, but whereas you have to pay a manager,

1808
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:30,040
Speaker 1: and I'll cost you more. No lawyer actually ever has

1809
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 1: to live with the contracts they negotiate. Most of those

1810
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:38,080
Speaker 1: contracts are about, as you know, forty pages long, all

1811
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:42,759
Speaker 1: all obviously crafted for the event, for for when things

1812
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:49,800
Speaker 1: go wrong. It's just not right that they have such

1813
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:52,519
Speaker 1: a say so early in an artist's career. Now that's

1814
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 1: not all the case because management now, but more and

1815
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 1: more the lawyers of players in there live the thickest

1816
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:00,800
Speaker 1: contract live. Even if you do a over tour with

1817
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:06,120
Speaker 1: Live Nation that ten pages, often two pages, and it's

1818
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:10,880
Speaker 1: a lot more money at stake, a lot more. Okay, Um,

1819
01:52:10,920 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 1: it's a different it's a different culture, it's a different DNA.

1820
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:16,720
Speaker 1: So I just think that you know, we've got three

1821
01:52:16,760 --> 01:52:19,479
Speaker 1: record companies now, Bob, and that's not healthy. I just

1822
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:24,080
Speaker 1: don't think that's healthy. A and M's brought folded revived.

1823
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:26,719
Speaker 1: When they need to offer some new guy or poach

1824
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 1: some guy from another label, Oh, let's give him A

1825
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:31,559
Speaker 1: and M oh, let's get in you know, let's let's all,

1826
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:34,160
Speaker 1: let's bring him my records back. Oh, let's bring it.

1827
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:37,599
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a game though in that sense,

1828
01:52:38,240 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 1: um I am. I don't know when that's answered your question,

1829
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 1: but oh, I think it's more than to answer a question.

1830
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,439
Speaker 1: The problem is people who were not alive in that

1831
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:51,479
Speaker 1: era are not conscious. They don't realize. As you stated earlier,

1832
01:52:52,080 --> 01:52:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean that the business was being built. I used

1833
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:59,920
Speaker 1: the equivalent thing from tech. You know, there's always things changing.

1834
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:04,200
Speaker 1: It's not that way now. I think music will always exist.

1835
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:07,240
Speaker 1: There are some changes coming down the pike. We could

1836
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:09,840
Speaker 1: we could have a long discussion about this, but this

1837
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,679
Speaker 1: is your time. We'll do that at another time. Peter,

1838
01:53:12,840 --> 01:53:15,200
Speaker 1: this has been wonderful. Thanks so much for showing up.

1839
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:17,400
Speaker 1: I hope so, I hope you're enjoying it. Oh, it's

1840
01:53:17,479 --> 01:53:21,400
Speaker 1: really really great. Really, you're fantastic. Until next time. This

1841
01:53:21,479 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 1: is Bob left sense