Speaker 1: That all just became normal, like mom's pan a stick
Speaker 1: and a child's digital footprint begins. There Are No Girls
Speaker 1: on the Internet. As a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There
Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. We talk a lot
Speaker 1: about the way the Internet can be a not so
Speaker 1: safe place. It's true for adults, and it's also true
Speaker 1: for kids. And when well meaning parents post content of
Speaker 1: their children to social media or make entire online platforms
Speaker 1: solely around their kid, it raises a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: Is it safe? What about privacy or what about consent?
Speaker 1: Technology moves so quickly and pretty much before we knew it,
Speaker 1: it kind of became normal for parents to share everything online,
Speaker 1: even things were once reserved for family and close friends,
Speaker 1: the most intimate moments, or even contact about times where
Speaker 1: kids are sick or injured. So in our increasingly digital world,
Speaker 1: shouldn't we pause to ask if this is safe or
Speaker 1: healthy for our children. My name is Sarah Adam and
Speaker 1: I go by mom dot uncharted on my social media accounts,
Speaker 1: mainly TikTok, and you can just call me Sarah. Sarah
Speaker 1: uses her growing platform on TikTok to explore what she
Speaker 1: calls generation Shared, and she was inspired to start in
Speaker 1: part by the experiences of parenting during the pandemic. I
Speaker 1: became a mom in late and I naturally followed a
Speaker 1: lot of mummy bloggers and a mummy influencers, mainly over
Speaker 1: on Instagram. And as the years went on, specifically kind
Speaker 1: of during the pandemic, when we all moved towards like
Speaker 1: this online world, I just noticed the amount that parents
Speaker 1: were sharing was get being more frequent, was getting more detailed,
Speaker 1: and I started to feel uncomfortable with the amount I
Speaker 1: was seeing other people's children displayed on social media, and
Speaker 1: the stories they were sharing, and the intimate details they
Speaker 1: were sharing. And I just couldn't help but think, does
Speaker 1: anyone else feel this is getting a little out of hand?
Speaker 1: Does anyone else feel that, like, maybe we're oversharing details
Speaker 1: about our kids? And so I eventually just downloaded TikTok
Speaker 1: and thought, you know what, maybe I'll ask maybe I'll
Speaker 1: start talking about these things. See if you see if
Speaker 1: there's a community out there of like minded people who
Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, you know, this is getting a little weird,
Speaker 1: This is getting a little strange and did you find
Speaker 1: that community? Is there a community of like minded folks
Speaker 1: who are interested in having those conversations? Yes, I did so.
Speaker 1: When I first downloaded TikTok Um, I did kind of
Speaker 1: like the mom's stuff, the trend stuff. I had a
Speaker 1: pandemic baby. I talked about that, I talked about things
Speaker 1: going on in my area. I was just trying to
Speaker 1: like learn the app and figure out who I was.
Speaker 1: And I noticed that whenever I integrated the concept of
Speaker 1: or the topic of sharenting or child exploitation on social media,
Speaker 1: that people were pretty engaged and like that stuff and
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it. And so yes, I did
Speaker 1: find a group of like minded mainly parents, but generally
Speaker 1: adults who feel that, like, we need to think longer
Speaker 1: and harder about the way we are sharing and utilizing
Speaker 1: our kids on social media. Yeah. I know that you
Speaker 1: talk a lot about some of the harms and the
Speaker 1: dangers of sharing kids on social media that I definitely
Speaker 1: want to get into. But something that you said that
Speaker 1: really struck me was, yes, that it can be super harmful.
Speaker 1: But also I think the question of like douce, isn't
Speaker 1: okay for strangers to see certain moments something that comes
Speaker 1: to mind is like a video I saw where it
Speaker 1: was like an influencer and she was made a video
Speaker 1: and it was like the moment you've been waiting for
Speaker 1: my my newborn's first bath, and it is sort of
Speaker 1: like that's an intimate thing. Like I don't I'm not
Speaker 1: a parent myself, but I just became a niece and
Speaker 1: my my brother and his partner they had their first
Speaker 1: like skin to skin and it was this incredible, like
Speaker 1: intimate experience. Isn't it not great that strangers would feel
Speaker 1: entitled to be a fly on the wall for the intimate,
Speaker 1: most deep special moments between a mother or a parent
Speaker 1: and a child that they don't even know. Yeah it Um,
Speaker 1: it feels like social media has made things less sacred almost,
Speaker 1: like these moments that you used to really be present
Speaker 1: for for your children, you know, the first bath, the
Speaker 1: first skin to skin. There's like a camera there and
Speaker 1: it's being filmed, and it just makes me think, like
Speaker 1: is anything just private anymore? Are there anything that parents
Speaker 1: just want to keep to themselves and hold near and
Speaker 1: dear and close and you know, put the phone down
Speaker 1: four right? Um? Yeah, it to me, I think it's strange.
Speaker 1: I think It's strange that parents would want strangers who
Speaker 1: they have not vetted two be privy to these intimate
Speaker 1: moments with their children, right that these strangers can save
Speaker 1: the videos and developed potentially like para social relationships with children.
Speaker 1: It it just feels strange to me. Yeah, a real
Speaker 1: new normal where I think you're right. I wonder if
Speaker 1: anyone has thought to pump the brakes and say, hey,
Speaker 1: is this really the future that we want to have?
Speaker 1: The social media? Social media getting us to a future
Speaker 1: that we want, or to a future that doesn't feel
Speaker 1: great in some ways, Like I'm happy that someone is
Speaker 1: out there forcing the question because with technology, things move
Speaker 1: so quickly and you can get to a new place
Speaker 1: without ever really thinking how did we get here and
Speaker 1: did we want to be here in the first place. Well, honestly, rigid,
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of how we got here with
Speaker 1: the sharing, right, with the oversharing of our children in
Speaker 1: our lives. Is that technology moves so fast and it
Speaker 1: all just became normal like mom's pian a stick and
Speaker 1: a child's digital footprint begins right, and we weren't talking
Speaker 1: about it, so we weren't reflecting on it as parents
Speaker 1: are really critically thinking about it because it's what we
Speaker 1: we're continuing to see. And what I want to do
Speaker 1: and what I try to do is just bring a
Speaker 1: different opinion, a different perspective. I want to engage in
Speaker 1: these conversations. Right, I'm not trying to like attack, I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to shame. I'm just trying to say, like, whoa, guys,
Speaker 1: have we like reached a point where we need to
Speaker 1: just pause and reflect on this and think critically, think
Speaker 1: about their future, not just the present. Um, it's really
Speaker 1: about just having parents pause before posting, thinking about their
Speaker 1: own sharing practices as well as the content they are
Speaker 1: consuming online. Yeah. What are some of the dangers that
Speaker 1: you've seen in terms of like maintaining an account that
Speaker 1: is solely based like like a parent maintaining an account
Speaker 1: or a social media presence that is solely based around
Speaker 1: a child. Yeah, I've seen, like, um, some of the
Speaker 1: strange like para social relationships that people are like waiting
Speaker 1: for these kids videos to pop up in their feed
Speaker 1: that like, you know, they make their day and things
Speaker 1: like that. Um. A lot of predatory people also depending
Speaker 1: on the type of account, like specifically, UM, mothers who
Speaker 1: are exploiting their young daughters. I have noticed there's a
Speaker 1: lot of predatory people following uh those accounts, and like, sadly,
Speaker 1: we live in a world where images can be saved
Speaker 1: and altered and digitally manipulated and put in scary places
Speaker 1: of the Internet, and it's just so much to think
Speaker 1: about and consider, Right, yeah, your content, I mean, take
Speaker 1: this whatever way you're going to take it. I maybe
Speaker 1: it was a little bit naive about like I know
Speaker 1: the Internet is a scary place, and I know there's
Speaker 1: weirdos and creeps out there. Of course, your account really
Speaker 1: made me realize what an organized network of creeps exists
Speaker 1: on the Internet, specifically to target content regarding children in
Speaker 1: ways that I never would have thought, like like like
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like so dark, it's tough to talk about,
Speaker 1: but there's like a market a marketplace for people who
Speaker 1: don't have great intentions with materials around surrounding children. It's
Speaker 1: like very it's like very upsetting. And I understand that
Speaker 1: people might not want to like I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it or think about it, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's not there. Well, honestly, um, sadly, it's a
Speaker 1: massive marketplace, like the things I have come across, it's
Speaker 1: terrifying and it's scary, and it's dark and it's dangerous.
Speaker 1: But the safety element wasn't even really on my radar
Speaker 1: when I first started thinking about these things. I was
Speaker 1: coming more for I'm like, don't our kids deserve privacy?
Speaker 1: Like we're choosing to put ourselves out there. We you know,
Speaker 1: consented to be public in public figures, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call it, and they didn't. So I was always
Speaker 1: coming from that kind of place, and it wasn't until
Speaker 1: I dove into it that the real safety concerns kind
Speaker 1: of came out. And as I was learning more about
Speaker 1: these dark corners of the Internet and the people on
Speaker 1: these apps and things like that, I just felt like, well,
Speaker 1: I gotta share. I gotta tell other parents that this
Speaker 1: is happening, and these are like, you know, the tags
Speaker 1: they use and what they're looking for. I felt, if
Speaker 1: I was accumulating all this knowledge, I had to share
Speaker 1: it with other parents, right, And you're right, it is
Speaker 1: hard to think about, but as I always say, we
Speaker 1: have to remember that when we post images publicly, we
Speaker 1: lose the ability to control them, and sadly, some of
Speaker 1: the worst people in society are on the social media
Speaker 1: platforms and their intentions are not good. And the FBI
Speaker 1: has stated that there's over five hundred thousand active predators
Speaker 1: online each day. And I don't know if that's like
Speaker 1: an American stat or like a worldwide stat but like
Speaker 1: that's enough as a mom to be like, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of predatory people. Are there red flags
Speaker 1: that might indicate that creeps are interested in a certain
Speaker 1: kind of material that you're posting online. Yeah, Like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's such an anonymity with the Internet that
Speaker 1: creeps can be very blazon and bold, right, they can
Speaker 1: just hide behind these troll accounts. They can say terrible comments,
Speaker 1: they can private their accounts so you can't see their
Speaker 1: followers list and what else they're doing out there. But
Speaker 1: I've noticed, um, a lot of them aren't a slow
Speaker 1: i as others. And if oftentimes you click on a
Speaker 1: user's name who may be made an inappropriate comment on
Speaker 1: the video of a child and they are public, you
Speaker 1: can see their followers list, and usually that gives you
Speaker 1: an insight into the type of individual that might be.
Speaker 1: I feel like most parents, most good parents, would never
Speaker 1: knowingly put their kid in danger? Right? Do you think
Speaker 1: that there's something about the Internet that blurs the actual
Speaker 1: like legitimate danger, not just the privacy invasion all of that,
Speaker 1: Like all of that is important as well, but the
Speaker 1: legitimate danger that some of these parents maybe unwittingly are
Speaker 1: putting their kids. And do you think the Internet makes
Speaker 1: it makes it difficult to see it as dangerous because
Speaker 1: it's happening on the Internet. Yeah, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: an element that it feels like not real, like less
Speaker 1: gary because they aren't physically able to like touch you
Speaker 1: or get to you. That it give. Yeah, But then
Speaker 1: I think about like stories like Ava ma Jury who
Speaker 1: had a stalker show up with a shotgun at their
Speaker 1: family home. Let's take a quick break at her back.
Speaker 1: Ava Majury started using TikTok two years ago when she
Speaker 1: was thirteen to stave off pandemic boredom. Since then, her
Speaker 1: platform has grown to over a million followers. Last year,
Speaker 1: after months of harassing Ava online, eighteen year old Eric
Speaker 1: Rohan Justin traveled to her home and shot a hole
Speaker 1: through her bedroom door before Ava's Dad's shot and killed it.
Speaker 1: When he was killed, he brought two cell phones with
Speaker 1: him that were filled with thousands of pictures and videos
Speaker 1: of Ava, and just this spring, Ava was being stalked
Speaker 1: by a classmate. Ava's parents talked to her about leaving
Speaker 1: social media after the incident with Eric, but Ava said
Speaker 1: that she liked the platform that she had built and
Speaker 1: she thought it could help her get into a good college,
Speaker 1: so she continues making content. Now, young people like Eva
Speaker 1: should be able to make the decision for themselves about
Speaker 1: how they show up online, not be forced into about
Speaker 1: their parents before they're really even old enough to understand it.
Speaker 1: Because the dangers that can come with showing up online
Speaker 1: are real. The people online can and do turn up
Speaker 1: in real life. Right. So we're seeing more stories where
Speaker 1: like they're um intersectional, right, you know, the online world
Speaker 1: and the real world. They're starting to come together. But
Speaker 1: I definitely agree, and I think maybe because parents are
Speaker 1: posting the images and videos, like the parent feels like
Speaker 1: in control, right and that they would not put their
Speaker 1: child in danger, And it's just thinking deeper into it, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: That's something that we talked about on this podcast. It
Speaker 1: seems like endlessly getting people to wake most people are
Speaker 1: a lot of people are there, but to wake up
Speaker 1: to the reality of the the like online harms don't
Speaker 1: often stay online, right And so you know, we had
Speaker 1: this attitude a while ago where it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just the Internet, who cares. But the internet and
Speaker 1: the real world there's there's much more overlap to the
Speaker 1: two than you think. And there are so many instances where,
Speaker 1: whether it's harassment or violent behavior, it might start online,
Speaker 1: but it does not end online one, right, And that
Speaker 1: goes back to you know, another element I discussed in
Speaker 1: regard to like posting photos and stuff, as you know,
Speaker 1: embarrassing content of your children, low moments of your children,
Speaker 1: and the potential that it could be used as like
Speaker 1: bullying fodder down the line right to your point. And
Speaker 1: then these bullies have access to all of this content
Speaker 1: and it doesn't end in the schoolyard like it used
Speaker 1: to for these kids. Right then for the teens online
Speaker 1: and things like that, it's all with you seven, right. Um.
Speaker 1: Another thing that we have to think about. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: sometimes on your page you'll have this like, well it
Speaker 1: just breaks my heart. There's this content where it will
Speaker 1: be I am fostering these kids with disabilities, and it'll
Speaker 1: go into these like very specific, detailed retellings of the
Speaker 1: issues that these kids have and the circumstances that they
Speaker 1: came from. And I just and I understand that the
Speaker 1: content is supposed to make you feel like, oh, how
Speaker 1: nice or like oh heartwarming, bloh blah, but it just
Speaker 1: so clear to me that the kid, the child, the
Speaker 1: person that that you should be really focused on, that
Speaker 1: no one is really thinking about, like, well, how is
Speaker 1: this going If they're in school and you're showing their
Speaker 1: face and using their name and talking about their history
Speaker 1: and their background, is this going to be good for them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not an adoptive mom or foster mom, and I'm
Speaker 1: not adoptive or foster child, so like, I can't speak
Speaker 1: from that experience, but I have talked to a lot
Speaker 1: of people in those communities, and my thought on it
Speaker 1: is that that's their story. Right. We have to remember
Speaker 1: that these are individual humans. They may be little, we
Speaker 1: may be in charge of them, but they still have
Speaker 1: their own stories and their own experiences, especially when we're
Speaker 1: thinking about like foster and adoptive children who could come
Speaker 1: from a lot of trauma, right, and to have their
Speaker 1: trauma publicly shared without their knowledge and consent feels like
Speaker 1: they can't be the author of their own story, and
Speaker 1: they don't get that back, right, They're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to reclaim that story as theirs. Like what
Speaker 1: if they didn't want that information public and now forever
Speaker 1: it is public? Right? It almost I worry about like
Speaker 1: them being retraumatized by having their stories and their experiences
Speaker 1: shared publicly online. I have a I mean, you might
Speaker 1: agree with me I have. I have what might be
Speaker 1: a controversial opinion. We don't care. We don't see as
Speaker 1: a society, we don't see kids as human like we have.
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes it can be adults can be
Speaker 1: so removed from the experience of being a child that
Speaker 1: it almost we almost dehumanize them, and we don't give them.
Speaker 1: We treat them as if they don't have any right
Speaker 1: to privacy or the right to be authors, or to
Speaker 1: give waste to their own experience. And we kind of
Speaker 1: have this the situation where it's like the adults no
Speaker 1: better and are allowed to, you know, make whatever choices
Speaker 1: that they want for the child. And I think, I
Speaker 1: think that we really don't always treat children as if
Speaker 1: they are little humans. We we we treat them in
Speaker 1: this way that I find really dehumanizing. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people would agree with you. A lot of
Speaker 1: people feel that kids right now, especially on social media,
Speaker 1: are kind of being treated like property of their parents,
Speaker 1: so like their parents have the right to do whatever
Speaker 1: they want, or I often refer to things I'm seeing
Speaker 1: like treating your child like a prop or an accessory
Speaker 1: to your content rather than a little human and the
Speaker 1: it's really hard, and we don't know the consequences and
Speaker 1: ramifications of all of this down the line, Like, but
Speaker 1: to your point, this is a real human lived experience. This.
Speaker 1: They're not actors playing a role here, right, this is
Speaker 1: their life, and we are putting it all out there
Speaker 1: without their knowledge and their consent and being the authors
Speaker 1: of their story and not giving them the digital autonomy
Speaker 1: that we have been given. Right Like, I'm a later millennial.
Speaker 1: I didn't have Facebook until I was twenty one years old,
Speaker 1: an adult, right, And let me tell you, at twenty one,
Speaker 1: I felt like an adult. Let me tell you, I
Speaker 1: was not an adult right now, not an adult, right,
Speaker 1: But I signed up, I consented, and I said whatever
Speaker 1: I do, like, this is on me, right, And they're
Speaker 1: not getting that choice. They're going as line on when
Speaker 1: they're you know, thirteen or whatnot, and have a very lengthy,
Speaker 1: detailed digital footprint already created for them that explains who
Speaker 1: they are that maybe that's not who they are or
Speaker 1: want to be perceived as. Do you ever hear from
Speaker 1: children who have now gotten a bit older. I guess
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, young adults who were the subject
Speaker 1: of a mommy blog or a you know mom run
Speaker 1: account about what that experience was like for them. Um.
Speaker 1: There is an individual cam Soft scorpio on TikTok. She
Speaker 1: I don't think she was used as like in a
Speaker 1: mummy vlogger form, but she grew up with a chronic
Speaker 1: oversharer and she shares her details on the public platform
Speaker 1: about how um she deals with all of the trauma
Speaker 1: that her mom put her through by sharing her life
Speaker 1: publicly online and is another Recently, a video has gone
Speaker 1: viral from Caroline Eastman, a comedian out of Chicago, where
Speaker 1: a child vlogger got in contact with her anonymously and
Speaker 1: let her share a letter about her experience being a
Speaker 1: child in this you know, family vlogging world, and it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. So I haven't like no one's directly reached
Speaker 1: out to me. But again, all these Logger children are
Speaker 1: kind of just coming of age now, many of them
Speaker 1: maybe are like in their later teens, and I think
Speaker 1: sometimes it takes a little longer to reflect on things, right.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until thirty for
Speaker 1: these children to really reflect back on their childhood and
Speaker 1: see things differently. Because right now, if you're seventeen eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, you might think it's really cool, right, You're
Speaker 1: still very much in this world. Right, But as you
Speaker 1: age and look back on your childhood, as we all do,
Speaker 1: you might see things very differently. Yeah. And I also
Speaker 1: think if you are if you grew up in a
Speaker 1: household with a chronic online over sharer or a mom
Speaker 1: or a parent who was like you were their content,
Speaker 1: you might not realize how harmful that was until you're
Speaker 1: out of it, Like that might just be your You
Speaker 1: might have not have a concept of the fact that, like,
Speaker 1: that's that's not everybody's normal circumstances until you're like out
Speaker 1: of it several years removed, because it was your lived experience, right,
Speaker 1: You learn what you live. If these children are living
Speaker 1: in a world where they are constantly being filmed and
Speaker 1: everything is content. Then that's what they learn and that's
Speaker 1: what they feel comfortable with, and that's just their existence.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not aware that that's not how the majority
Speaker 1: of kids grow up, right, So I think it's going
Speaker 1: to take a little time, but I think they're gonna
Speaker 1: come right like you. There's also in the comparison between
Speaker 1: like child stars and influencer kids, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of differences, but I feel like we can take a
Speaker 1: little bit from the child star experience and I think
Speaker 1: that maybe some of these kids have the potential to
Speaker 1: have similar traumas. Definitely. So I just finished um Janette
Speaker 1: mcgurdy's book I'm Glad My Mom Died, which like she's
Speaker 1: got punch of a read that was my god. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, when it comes to child actors, I mean,
Speaker 1: I have no idea about the business, but I do
Speaker 1: know that there's laws, like there's like there's like certain
Speaker 1: laws about how long they can work, what their schooling
Speaker 1: looks like, all of that. Where the money goes influence
Speaker 1: like influencing and kind creating. It's such a new field
Speaker 1: that we don't really even have a have a body
Speaker 1: of of laws that I that I'm aware of that
Speaker 1: speaks to that because it's such a new field. Do
Speaker 1: you think this is a place where our technology has
Speaker 1: progressed quicker than our than our than our like societal
Speaker 1: and legal understanding, Like do you think that there should
Speaker 1: be laws in place or at least norms in place
Speaker 1: where how how children can show up online if a
Speaker 1: parent is like monetizing a content page dedicated solely to them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely think that, um, there needs to be rules
Speaker 1: and regulations put for us to protect the kids and
Speaker 1: like their labor and the money that they are essentially making. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know when that will come. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world, and I think
Speaker 1: a lot of UM. One aspect is the people usually
Speaker 1: in charge of you know, government to making regulations are
Speaker 1: quite older than the people who are like in the
Speaker 1: depths of this fast moving technology. So I'm not even
Speaker 1: sure if lawmakers really understand the problem that is happening
Speaker 1: online right completely. More after a quick break, let's get
Speaker 1: right back into it. My nine to five job is
Speaker 1: around like platform accountability and sort of trying to nudge
Speaker 1: platforms to do the right thing, and some of that
Speaker 1: work involves lawmakers, and I'll just say sometimes I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: the people making the laws for our platforms, I don't
Speaker 1: know how innately familiar they are with them, but yet
Speaker 1: they are in charge of them exactly. And then also
Speaker 1: I would say, I have this theory that you know, know,
Speaker 1: when I look at like influencers. For so long, influencing
Speaker 1: was something that was mostly like like dominated by women,
Speaker 1: and so I think that it gave it this idea
Speaker 1: that it wasn't serious and didn't need scrutiny. But I
Speaker 1: think that when it comes to children showing up online
Speaker 1: via their parents, I think a lot of that is
Speaker 1: also dominated by women, and thus it is avoided the
Speaker 1: same kind of scrutiny. I just think that when something
Speaker 1: is like has the impression of like, oh, it's just
Speaker 1: something that women are doing on the internet, it gives
Speaker 1: U it has an air of it's not worthy of
Speaker 1: scrutiny or a real meaningful attention, And I think nothing
Speaker 1: could be further from the truth. I think you nailed
Speaker 1: it on that one, rigid. I completely agree. When you
Speaker 1: make your content, do you ever get accusations of like
Speaker 1: that your mom shaming, like, oh, why don't you leave
Speaker 1: her alone? It's not your kid. If she wants to
Speaker 1: put her if she wants to put her kid on
Speaker 1: her TikTok or social media like this, who are you
Speaker 1: to say anything? Do people ever accuse you of shaming moms? Um? Occasionally?
Speaker 1: It's definitely died down recently, Like I get a lot
Speaker 1: of like mind your own business or not not your kid,
Speaker 1: not your problem. But I feel that the mom shaming
Speaker 1: has died down a little. But I've also grown with
Speaker 1: my platform, so I try really hard to you know,
Speaker 1: inform and educate and offer a difference of opinion and
Speaker 1: use examples that are you know, stitched and duetted and
Speaker 1: user names are hidden and identities are hidden. You know,
Speaker 1: some of these people have millions of followers, so like,
Speaker 1: you know who I'm talking about. But I wanted to
Speaker 1: be around the conversation versus trying to attack somebody. So
Speaker 1: I think as I've grown with my platform, it's it's
Speaker 1: died down because I'm really trying to I don't want
Speaker 1: to mom shame. I don't want I don't think any
Speaker 1: if a mother is making a different choice than me,
Speaker 1: I don't think they should be attacked for it and
Speaker 1: ridiculed for it. Because I don't think it's a black
Speaker 1: and white issue. I think there is a lot of
Speaker 1: gray um when it comes online sharing. I've said multiple
Speaker 1: times that I'm not against all sharing, but I am
Speaker 1: against parents making their content their kids. And you know,
Speaker 1: of their content is their kid or their whole account
Speaker 1: is solely their kid. Is very different than an influencer
Speaker 1: who sometimes does a dance with their kid or shows
Speaker 1: them at the park occasionally. Right, Like, there's gray, there's
Speaker 1: a spectrum. Yeah, I I agree because I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be honest like I when I'm scrolling TikTok, I
Speaker 1: love children. When I when a cute kid doing a
Speaker 1: dance or a cute kid doing something like, you know,
Speaker 1: making food, and they're like pretend kitchen, and I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that stuff. But honestly, it's made me take
Speaker 1: a more critical look at my own role in the
Speaker 1: content that I am consuming and thus incentivizing. You know,
Speaker 1: we all love cute kids. Yes, if I'm seeing a
Speaker 1: content where it's like this kid doesn't look happy, or
Speaker 1: this kid looks like they've they've they understand that they
Speaker 1: have to perform in a certain way to get validation,
Speaker 1: and maybe they don't want to, and they're doing it anyway.
Speaker 1: If it's made me take a much more critical eye
Speaker 1: to the content that I am consuming and thus incentivizing
Speaker 1: and you know, incentivizing them to keep making it, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I And that's one of the things I've always hoped
Speaker 1: is that parents and adults will reflect on the content
Speaker 1: they are consuming, and if they were consuming these like
Speaker 1: kids centric accounts, that they don't look at it as
Speaker 1: a place of entertainment. They look at it from a
Speaker 1: place of personal, lived, human experience of that child, right,
Speaker 1: Like that child is not knowing or willing participant, right
Speaker 1: because they can't they can't consent, They don't know what
Speaker 1: social media is, they don't know they're being blasted to
Speaker 1: a billion people on TikTok. So just to be able
Speaker 1: to think more critically of how we are seeing kids
Speaker 1: and interacting with them online is a big part of
Speaker 1: what I talked about. Two. I've noticed there are content
Speaker 1: creators who are talking about how they are no longer
Speaker 1: going to be featuring their child on their social media content.
Speaker 1: Do you feel that the tides are sort of turning.
Speaker 1: I feel like the tides are like there, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's like a little ripple, right, and you never know,
Speaker 1: the ripple might turn into the wave or it might
Speaker 1: just not go anywhere. But I've seen like really big
Speaker 1: creators recently, some who are you know, pregnant or trying
Speaker 1: to conceive, announced that like they won't be sharing their
Speaker 1: chry oild on social media that like you know, maybe
Speaker 1: from the back or something like that, but they firmly
Speaker 1: believe they can't give inform consent. And when they have
Speaker 1: platforms of millions of people and stuff like that, I
Speaker 1: guess you would know how dark and scary and weird
Speaker 1: it can get, right, so you maybe wouldn't want your
Speaker 1: kid involved in that. And every day I have parents
Speaker 1: reaching out to me just saying that I've changed the
Speaker 1: way they thought in their own um, within their own family,
Speaker 1: and the way they share online and the content they consume.
Speaker 1: So I do see a little tied um, a little
Speaker 1: ripple in the water of change, because again, like my
Speaker 1: goal isn't to like get rid of kids on the
Speaker 1: internet or anything like that. It's to really think about,
Speaker 1: like to treat them as humans. And we wouldn't want
Speaker 1: pictures and videos of ourselves circulating online without our knowledge
Speaker 1: and consent. Yet we're doing this every day to our kids. Right,
Speaker 1: It's just these things we have to think about. It's
Speaker 1: it's important to think about these things. Yeah, my mom
Speaker 1: has this picture of me framed in our house from
Speaker 1: when I was a toddler, and it's it's an unflattering picture.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm doing something very unflattering. And I always think,
Speaker 1: thank God that we didn't have social media. It's like that.
Speaker 1: It's like, as an adult, that was the image that
Speaker 1: people associated with me still, like, you know if that
Speaker 1: that image went viral, Oh, it will be a nightmare. Well,
Speaker 1: we say, like, oh, so as a millennial, one of
Speaker 1: our biggest things is well, I'm so glad that my
Speaker 1: teenage years weren't blasted on the internet, or my childhood
Speaker 1: wasn't blasted on the internet. Yeah, we are some of
Speaker 1: the worst for doing it to our own children. So
Speaker 1: it's just really interesting sometimes how people aren't connecting that, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't want it done to you, You're glad it
Speaker 1: wasn't done to you, yet you're actively doing it to
Speaker 1: your children. You just need to self reflect on that.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that, But you're
Speaker 1: so right that we were. We are the ones doing it,
Speaker 1: and we didn't we we were always talking about how
Speaker 1: we're happy it didn't happen to us, and we're turning
Speaker 1: it around and doing it to the next generation, exactly right.
Speaker 1: And I think I I worry because some people are like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, your kids aren't here, why do you care? Well,
Speaker 1: I care because I care about kids. I care about
Speaker 1: the generation of humans my children are growing up with
Speaker 1: and around and amongst, right and right now, what we
Speaker 1: know to be true is that the teens are really suffering.
Speaker 1: They're becoming increasingly addicted to their smartphones and their screens. Uh.
Speaker 1: Rates of you know, anxiety, depression, suicide, mental health in
Speaker 1: general have skyrocketed since the advent of social media over
Speaker 1: the past two decades. And my gut as a parent
Speaker 1: says that if this is where our teens are at now,
Speaker 1: why would we think it's going to be better for
Speaker 1: the next generation. Why do we think having our kids
Speaker 1: online and plastered on the internet at such a young
Speaker 1: age is going to benefit them down the line? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I'm right there with you, and I firmly believe
Speaker 1: that it's time to take meaningful, intentional steps to make
Speaker 1: sure that technology and the internet is not creating a
Speaker 1: generation that is worse off than the one before it.
Speaker 1: I think that we're just moving very quickly, you know.
Speaker 1: I think it's partly because it's our experiences are making
Speaker 1: wealthy tech bros lots of money, and those those experiences
Speaker 1: are like lining somebody's pockets, and thus we are not
Speaker 1: stopping to be like, well, are we create Are are
Speaker 1: we enabling the internet to provide healthy experiences for the
Speaker 1: next generation or more fucked up experiences? And I deep
Speaker 1: I deeply believe that young people deserve and the internet
Speaker 1: that makes them feel safe and not exploited. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's just there's so there's so much, there's
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. Yeah, it's like one of
Speaker 1: those topics is like, wow, that's a real ball yarn. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just I just want parents to think. Right, That's
Speaker 1: why I call myself mom uncharted because I don't have
Speaker 1: the answers. No one does. This is uncharted territory, but
Speaker 1: it is a massive element of parenting today. So we
Speaker 1: need to talk about it. And let's just have these
Speaker 1: open conversations and you can agree or disagree. You can
Speaker 1: use your parental discretion and do whatever the funk you want.
Speaker 1: But you need to just listen and reflect because as
Speaker 1: you can't go to the library and get out of
Speaker 1: book and learn about how this is all going to
Speaker 1: turn out. Right, we don't know the consequences and ramifications
Speaker 1: to all of this, and we're navigating it together, and
Speaker 1: so at least we can talk about it. At least
Speaker 1: we can you know, talk and have people just you know,
Speaker 1: have a few lightbulb moments, change a few things. It's
Speaker 1: just about opening a dialogue and having a discussion about
Speaker 1: something that is literally like a massive aspect of arranging
Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, one of my last questions, do you
Speaker 1: have tips for maybe somebody is listening and they're like,
Speaker 1: I want to be more intentional about how my kids
Speaker 1: show up on my social media feed? Do you need
Speaker 1: tips for that person listening? So, for me, what works
Speaker 1: for my family and what I believe is the safest
Speaker 1: option to protect your kids online as well as respect
Speaker 1: their privacy as an individual is to just not post um.
Speaker 1: That's my go to. However, if you feel like you
Speaker 1: want to share with trusted family and friends, the best
Speaker 1: option is to do so in private mode and really
Speaker 1: curate your followers list, really know and trust those individuals
Speaker 1: who are following along with your children and your family experience.
Speaker 1: Those are always my go to tips. So I want
Speaker 1: to know what you think if you're a parent or
Speaker 1: a caregiver to a little one, what is your philosophy
Speaker 1: about how both kids show up on social media and
Speaker 1: how did you come to that decision? Shoot me an
Speaker 1: email at Hello at pangoti dot com, because, like Sarah says,
Speaker 1: we're navigating pretty uncharted territory here when it comes to
Speaker 1: parenting children and the Internet, and I think that will
Speaker 1: only really be able to figure it out by talking
Speaker 1: about it together. Got a story about an interesting thing tech,
Speaker 1: or just want to say hi? You can reach us
Speaker 1: at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There
Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me
Speaker 1: Bridget Tod. It's a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison
Speaker 1: as our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our
Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want
Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple podcasts.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.