1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: That all just became normal, like mom's pan a stick 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: and a child's digital footprint begins. There Are No Girls 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: on the Internet. As a production of I Heart Radio 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. We talk a lot 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: about the way the Internet can be a not so 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: safe place. It's true for adults, and it's also true 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: for kids. And when well meaning parents post content of 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: their children to social media or make entire online platforms 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: solely around their kid, it raises a lot of questions. 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Is it safe? What about privacy or what about consent? 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: Technology moves so quickly and pretty much before we knew it, 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: it kind of became normal for parents to share everything online, 14 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: even things were once reserved for family and close friends, 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: the most intimate moments, or even contact about times where 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: kids are sick or injured. So in our increasingly digital world, 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: shouldn't we pause to ask if this is safe or 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: healthy for our children. My name is Sarah Adam and 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: I go by mom dot uncharted on my social media accounts, 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: mainly TikTok, and you can just call me Sarah. Sarah 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: uses her growing platform on TikTok to explore what she 22 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: calls generation Shared, and she was inspired to start in 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: part by the experiences of parenting during the pandemic. I 24 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: became a mom in late and I naturally followed a 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: lot of mummy bloggers and a mummy influencers, mainly over 26 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: on Instagram. And as the years went on, specifically kind 27 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: of during the pandemic, when we all moved towards like 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: this online world, I just noticed the amount that parents 29 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: were sharing was get being more frequent, was getting more detailed, 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: and I started to feel uncomfortable with the amount I 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: was seeing other people's children displayed on social media, and 32 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: the stories they were sharing, and the intimate details they 33 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: were sharing. And I just couldn't help but think, does 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: anyone else feel this is getting a little out of hand? 35 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: Does anyone else feel that, like, maybe we're oversharing details 36 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: about our kids? And so I eventually just downloaded TikTok 37 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: and thought, you know what, maybe I'll ask maybe I'll 38 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: start talking about these things. See if you see if 39 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: there's a community out there of like minded people who 40 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, you know, this is getting a little weird, 41 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: This is getting a little strange and did you find 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: that community? Is there a community of like minded folks 43 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: who are interested in having those conversations? Yes, I did so. 44 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: When I first downloaded TikTok Um, I did kind of 45 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: like the mom's stuff, the trend stuff. I had a 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: pandemic baby. I talked about that, I talked about things 47 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: going on in my area. I was just trying to 48 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: like learn the app and figure out who I was. 49 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: And I noticed that whenever I integrated the concept of 50 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: or the topic of sharenting or child exploitation on social media, 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: that people were pretty engaged and like that stuff and 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it. And so yes, I did 53 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: find a group of like minded mainly parents, but generally 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: adults who feel that, like, we need to think longer 55 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: and harder about the way we are sharing and utilizing 56 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: our kids on social media. Yeah. I know that you 57 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: talk a lot about some of the harms and the 58 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: dangers of sharing kids on social media that I definitely 59 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: want to get into. But something that you said that 60 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: really struck me was, yes, that it can be super harmful. 61 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: But also I think the question of like douce, isn't 62 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: okay for strangers to see certain moments something that comes 63 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: to mind is like a video I saw where it 64 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: was like an influencer and she was made a video 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: and it was like the moment you've been waiting for 66 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: my my newborn's first bath, and it is sort of 67 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: like that's an intimate thing. Like I don't I'm not 68 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: a parent myself, but I just became a niece and 69 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: my my brother and his partner they had their first 70 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: like skin to skin and it was this incredible, like 71 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: intimate experience. Isn't it not great that strangers would feel 72 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: entitled to be a fly on the wall for the intimate, 73 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: most deep special moments between a mother or a parent 74 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: and a child that they don't even know. Yeah it Um, 75 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: it feels like social media has made things less sacred almost, 76 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: like these moments that you used to really be present 77 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: for for your children, you know, the first bath, the 78 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: first skin to skin. There's like a camera there and 79 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: it's being filmed, and it just makes me think, like 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: is anything just private anymore? Are there anything that parents 81 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: just want to keep to themselves and hold near and 82 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: dear and close and you know, put the phone down 83 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: four right? Um? Yeah, it to me, I think it's strange. 84 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: I think It's strange that parents would want strangers who 85 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: they have not vetted two be privy to these intimate 86 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: moments with their children, right that these strangers can save 87 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: the videos and developed potentially like para social relationships with children. 88 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: It it just feels strange to me. Yeah, a real 89 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: new normal where I think you're right. I wonder if 90 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: anyone has thought to pump the brakes and say, hey, 91 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: is this really the future that we want to have? 92 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: The social media? Social media getting us to a future 93 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: that we want, or to a future that doesn't feel 94 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: great in some ways, Like I'm happy that someone is 95 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: out there forcing the question because with technology, things move 96 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: so quickly and you can get to a new place 97 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: without ever really thinking how did we get here and 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: did we want to be here in the first place. Well, honestly, rigid, 99 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of how we got here with 100 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: the sharing, right, with the oversharing of our children in 101 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: our lives. Is that technology moves so fast and it 102 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: all just became normal like mom's pian a stick and 103 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: a child's digital footprint begins right, and we weren't talking 104 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: about it, so we weren't reflecting on it as parents 105 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: are really critically thinking about it because it's what we 106 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: we're continuing to see. And what I want to do 107 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: and what I try to do is just bring a 108 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: different opinion, a different perspective. I want to engage in 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: these conversations. Right, I'm not trying to like attack, I'm 110 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: not trying to shame. I'm just trying to say, like, whoa, guys, 111 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: have we like reached a point where we need to 112 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: just pause and reflect on this and think critically, think 113 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: about their future, not just the present. Um, it's really 114 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: about just having parents pause before posting, thinking about their 115 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: own sharing practices as well as the content they are 116 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: consuming online. Yeah. What are some of the dangers that 117 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: you've seen in terms of like maintaining an account that 118 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: is solely based like like a parent maintaining an account 119 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: or a social media presence that is solely based around 120 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: a child. Yeah, I've seen, like, um, some of the 121 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: strange like para social relationships that people are like waiting 122 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: for these kids videos to pop up in their feed 123 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: that like, you know, they make their day and things 124 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: like that. Um. A lot of predatory people also depending 125 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: on the type of account, like specifically, UM, mothers who 126 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: are exploiting their young daughters. I have noticed there's a 127 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: lot of predatory people following uh those accounts, and like, sadly, 128 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: we live in a world where images can be saved 129 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: and altered and digitally manipulated and put in scary places 130 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: of the Internet, and it's just so much to think 131 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: about and consider, Right, yeah, your content, I mean, take 132 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: this whatever way you're going to take it. I maybe 133 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: it was a little bit naive about like I know 134 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: the Internet is a scary place, and I know there's 135 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: weirdos and creeps out there. Of course, your account really 136 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: made me realize what an organized network of creeps exists 137 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: on the Internet, specifically to target content regarding children in 138 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: ways that I never would have thought, like like like 139 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: it's it's almost like so dark, it's tough to talk about, 140 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: but there's like a market a marketplace for people who 141 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: don't have great intentions with materials around surrounding children. It's 142 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: like very it's like very upsetting. And I understand that 143 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: people might not want to like I don't want to 144 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: talk about it or think about it, but it doesn't 145 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: mean it's not there. Well, honestly, um, sadly, it's a 146 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: massive marketplace, like the things I have come across, it's 147 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: terrifying and it's scary, and it's dark and it's dangerous. 148 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: But the safety element wasn't even really on my radar 149 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: when I first started thinking about these things. I was 150 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: coming more for I'm like, don't our kids deserve privacy? 151 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: Like we're choosing to put ourselves out there. We you know, 152 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: consented to be public in public figures, whatever you want 153 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: to call it, and they didn't. So I was always 154 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: coming from that kind of place, and it wasn't until 155 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: I dove into it that the real safety concerns kind 156 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: of came out. And as I was learning more about 157 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: these dark corners of the Internet and the people on 158 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: these apps and things like that, I just felt like, well, 159 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: I gotta share. I gotta tell other parents that this 160 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: is happening, and these are like, you know, the tags 161 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: they use and what they're looking for. I felt, if 162 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: I was accumulating all this knowledge, I had to share 163 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: it with other parents, right, And you're right, it is 164 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: hard to think about, but as I always say, we 165 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: have to remember that when we post images publicly, we 166 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: lose the ability to control them, and sadly, some of 167 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: the worst people in society are on the social media 168 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: platforms and their intentions are not good. And the FBI 169 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: has stated that there's over five hundred thousand active predators 170 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: online each day. And I don't know if that's like 171 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: an American stat or like a worldwide stat but like 172 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: that's enough as a mom to be like, whoa, whoa, 173 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: that's a lot of predatory people. Are there red flags 174 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: that might indicate that creeps are interested in a certain 175 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: kind of material that you're posting online. Yeah, Like, um, 176 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's such an anonymity with the Internet that 177 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: creeps can be very blazon and bold, right, they can 178 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:50,119 Speaker 1: just hide behind these troll accounts. They can say terrible comments, 179 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: they can private their accounts so you can't see their 180 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: followers list and what else they're doing out there. But 181 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: I've noticed, um, a lot of them aren't a slow 182 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: i as others. And if oftentimes you click on a 183 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: user's name who may be made an inappropriate comment on 184 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: the video of a child and they are public, you 185 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: can see their followers list, and usually that gives you 186 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: an insight into the type of individual that might be. 187 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: I feel like most parents, most good parents, would never 188 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: knowingly put their kid in danger? Right? Do you think 189 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: that there's something about the Internet that blurs the actual 190 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: like legitimate danger, not just the privacy invasion all of that, 191 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: Like all of that is important as well, but the 192 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: legitimate danger that some of these parents maybe unwittingly are 193 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: putting their kids. And do you think the Internet makes 194 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: it makes it difficult to see it as dangerous because 195 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: it's happening on the Internet. Yeah, I feel like there's 196 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: an element that it feels like not real, like less 197 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: gary because they aren't physically able to like touch you 198 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: or get to you. That it give. Yeah, But then 199 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: I think about like stories like Ava ma Jury who 200 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: had a stalker show up with a shotgun at their 201 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: family home. Let's take a quick break at her back. 202 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 1: Ava Majury started using TikTok two years ago when she 203 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: was thirteen to stave off pandemic boredom. Since then, her 204 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: platform has grown to over a million followers. Last year, 205 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: after months of harassing Ava online, eighteen year old Eric 206 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: Rohan Justin traveled to her home and shot a hole 207 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: through her bedroom door before Ava's Dad's shot and killed it. 208 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: When he was killed, he brought two cell phones with 209 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: him that were filled with thousands of pictures and videos 210 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: of Ava, and just this spring, Ava was being stalked 211 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: by a classmate. Ava's parents talked to her about leaving 212 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: social media after the incident with Eric, but Ava said 213 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: that she liked the platform that she had built and 214 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: she thought it could help her get into a good college, 215 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: so she continues making content. Now, young people like Eva 216 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: should be able to make the decision for themselves about 217 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: how they show up online, not be forced into about 218 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: their parents before they're really even old enough to understand it. 219 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: Because the dangers that can come with showing up online 220 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: are real. The people online can and do turn up 221 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: in real life. Right. So we're seeing more stories where 222 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: like they're um intersectional, right, you know, the online world 223 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: and the real world. They're starting to come together. But 224 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: I definitely agree, and I think maybe because parents are 225 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: posting the images and videos, like the parent feels like 226 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: in control, right and that they would not put their 227 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: child in danger, And it's just thinking deeper into it, right. Yeah, 228 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: That's something that we talked about on this podcast. It 229 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: seems like endlessly getting people to wake most people are 230 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people are there, but to wake up 231 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: to the reality of the the like online harms don't 232 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: often stay online, right And so you know, we had 233 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: this attitude a while ago where it was like, oh, 234 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: it's just the Internet, who cares. But the internet and 235 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: the real world there's there's much more overlap to the 236 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: two than you think. And there are so many instances where, 237 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: whether it's harassment or violent behavior, it might start online, 238 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: but it does not end online one, right, And that 239 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: goes back to you know, another element I discussed in 240 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: regard to like posting photos and stuff, as you know, 241 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: embarrassing content of your children, low moments of your children, 242 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: and the potential that it could be used as like 243 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: bullying fodder down the line right to your point. And 244 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: then these bullies have access to all of this content 245 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: and it doesn't end in the schoolyard like it used 246 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: to for these kids. Right then for the teens online 247 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: and things like that, it's all with you seven, right. Um. 248 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: Another thing that we have to think about. Yeah, some 249 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: sometimes on your page you'll have this like, well it 250 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: just breaks my heart. There's this content where it will 251 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: be I am fostering these kids with disabilities, and it'll 252 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: go into these like very specific, detailed retellings of the 253 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: issues that these kids have and the circumstances that they 254 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: came from. And I just and I understand that the 255 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: content is supposed to make you feel like, oh, how 256 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: nice or like oh heartwarming, bloh blah, but it just 257 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: so clear to me that the kid, the child, the 258 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: person that that you should be really focused on, that 259 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: no one is really thinking about, like, well, how is 260 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: this going If they're in school and you're showing their 261 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: face and using their name and talking about their history 262 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: and their background, is this going to be good for them? Yeah, 263 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: I'm not an adoptive mom or foster mom, and I'm 264 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: not adoptive or foster child, so like, I can't speak 265 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: from that experience, but I have talked to a lot 266 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: of people in those communities, and my thought on it 267 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: is that that's their story. Right. We have to remember 268 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: that these are individual humans. They may be little, we 269 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: may be in charge of them, but they still have 270 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: their own stories and their own experiences, especially when we're 271 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: thinking about like foster and adoptive children who could come 272 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: from a lot of trauma, right, and to have their 273 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: trauma publicly shared without their knowledge and consent feels like 274 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: they can't be the author of their own story, and 275 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: they don't get that back, right, They're not going to 276 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: be able to reclaim that story as theirs. Like what 277 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: if they didn't want that information public and now forever 278 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: it is public? Right? It almost I worry about like 279 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: them being retraumatized by having their stories and their experiences 280 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: shared publicly online. I have a I mean, you might 281 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: agree with me I have. I have what might be 282 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: a controversial opinion. We don't care. We don't see as 283 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: a society, we don't see kids as human like we have. 284 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: I think that sometimes it can be adults can be 285 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: so removed from the experience of being a child that 286 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: it almost we almost dehumanize them, and we don't give them. 287 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: We treat them as if they don't have any right 288 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: to privacy or the right to be authors, or to 289 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: give waste to their own experience. And we kind of 290 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: have this the situation where it's like the adults no 291 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: better and are allowed to, you know, make whatever choices 292 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: that they want for the child. And I think, I 293 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: think that we really don't always treat children as if 294 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: they are little humans. We we we treat them in 295 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: this way that I find really dehumanizing. I think a 296 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: lot of people would agree with you. A lot of 297 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: people feel that kids right now, especially on social media, 298 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: are kind of being treated like property of their parents, 299 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: so like their parents have the right to do whatever 300 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: they want, or I often refer to things I'm seeing 301 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: like treating your child like a prop or an accessory 302 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: to your content rather than a little human and the 303 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: it's really hard, and we don't know the consequences and 304 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: ramifications of all of this down the line, Like, but 305 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: to your point, this is a real human lived experience. This. 306 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: They're not actors playing a role here, right, this is 307 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: their life, and we are putting it all out there 308 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: without their knowledge and their consent and being the authors 309 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: of their story and not giving them the digital autonomy 310 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: that we have been given. Right Like, I'm a later millennial. 311 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: I didn't have Facebook until I was twenty one years old, 312 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: an adult, right, And let me tell you, at twenty one, 313 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: I felt like an adult. Let me tell you, I 314 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: was not an adult right now, not an adult, right, 315 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: But I signed up, I consented, and I said whatever 316 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: I do, like, this is on me, right, And they're 317 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: not getting that choice. They're going as line on when 318 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: they're you know, thirteen or whatnot, and have a very lengthy, 319 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: detailed digital footprint already created for them that explains who 320 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: they are that maybe that's not who they are or 321 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: want to be perceived as. Do you ever hear from 322 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: children who have now gotten a bit older. I guess 323 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: they're like, you know, young adults who were the subject 324 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: of a mommy blog or a you know mom run 325 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: account about what that experience was like for them. Um. 326 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: There is an individual cam Soft scorpio on TikTok. She 327 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: I don't think she was used as like in a 328 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: mummy vlogger form, but she grew up with a chronic 329 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: oversharer and she shares her details on the public platform 330 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: about how um she deals with all of the trauma 331 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: that her mom put her through by sharing her life 332 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: publicly online and is another Recently, a video has gone 333 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: viral from Caroline Eastman, a comedian out of Chicago, where 334 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: a child vlogger got in contact with her anonymously and 335 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: let her share a letter about her experience being a 336 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: child in this you know, family vlogging world, and it's heartbreaking. 337 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. So I haven't like no one's directly reached 338 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,239 Speaker 1: out to me. But again, all these Logger children are 339 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: kind of just coming of age now, many of them 340 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: maybe are like in their later teens, and I think 341 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: sometimes it takes a little longer to reflect on things, right. 342 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until thirty for 343 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: these children to really reflect back on their childhood and 344 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: see things differently. Because right now, if you're seventeen eighteen 345 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: years old, you might think it's really cool, right, You're 346 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: still very much in this world. Right, But as you 347 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: age and look back on your childhood, as we all do, 348 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: you might see things very differently. Yeah. And I also 349 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: think if you are if you grew up in a 350 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: household with a chronic online over sharer or a mom 351 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: or a parent who was like you were their content, 352 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: you might not realize how harmful that was until you're 353 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: out of it, Like that might just be your You 354 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: might have not have a concept of the fact that, like, 355 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: that's that's not everybody's normal circumstances until you're like out 356 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: of it several years removed, because it was your lived experience, right, 357 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: You learn what you live. If these children are living 358 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: in a world where they are constantly being filmed and 359 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: everything is content. Then that's what they learn and that's 360 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: what they feel comfortable with, and that's just their existence. 361 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Maybe they're not aware that that's not how the majority 362 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: of kids grow up, right, So I think it's going 363 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: to take a little time, but I think they're gonna 364 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: come right like you. There's also in the comparison between 365 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: like child stars and influencer kids, and there's a lot 366 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: of differences, but I feel like we can take a 367 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: little bit from the child star experience and I think 368 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: that maybe some of these kids have the potential to 369 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: have similar traumas. Definitely. So I just finished um Janette 370 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: mcgurdy's book I'm Glad My Mom Died, which like she's 371 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: got punch of a read that was my god. Um. 372 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: But you know, when it comes to child actors, I mean, 373 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 1: I have no idea about the business, but I do 374 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: know that there's laws, like there's like there's like certain 375 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: laws about how long they can work, what their schooling 376 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: looks like, all of that. Where the money goes influence 377 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: like influencing and kind creating. It's such a new field 378 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: that we don't really even have a have a body 379 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: of of laws that I that I'm aware of that 380 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: speaks to that because it's such a new field. Do 381 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: you think this is a place where our technology has 382 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: progressed quicker than our than our than our like societal 383 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: and legal understanding, Like do you think that there should 384 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: be laws in place or at least norms in place 385 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: where how how children can show up online if a 386 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: parent is like monetizing a content page dedicated solely to them. Yeah, 387 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 1: I definitely think that, um, there needs to be rules 388 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: and regulations put for us to protect the kids and 389 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: like their labor and the money that they are essentially making. Um, 390 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: I don't know when that will come. You know, there's 391 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world, and I think 392 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: a lot of UM. One aspect is the people usually 393 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: in charge of you know, government to making regulations are 394 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: quite older than the people who are like in the 395 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: depths of this fast moving technology. So I'm not even 396 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: sure if lawmakers really understand the problem that is happening 397 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: online right completely. More after a quick break, let's get 398 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: right back into it. My nine to five job is 399 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: around like platform accountability and sort of trying to nudge 400 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: platforms to do the right thing, and some of that 401 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: work involves lawmakers, and I'll just say sometimes I'm like, oh, 402 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: the people making the laws for our platforms, I don't 403 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: know how innately familiar they are with them, but yet 404 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: they are in charge of them exactly. And then also 405 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: I would say, I have this theory that you know, know, 406 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: when I look at like influencers. For so long, influencing 407 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: was something that was mostly like like dominated by women, 408 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: and so I think that it gave it this idea 409 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: that it wasn't serious and didn't need scrutiny. But I 410 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: think that when it comes to children showing up online 411 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: via their parents, I think a lot of that is 412 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: also dominated by women, and thus it is avoided the 413 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: same kind of scrutiny. I just think that when something 414 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: is like has the impression of like, oh, it's just 415 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: something that women are doing on the internet, it gives 416 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: U it has an air of it's not worthy of 417 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: scrutiny or a real meaningful attention, And I think nothing 418 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: could be further from the truth. I think you nailed 419 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: it on that one, rigid. I completely agree. When you 420 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: make your content, do you ever get accusations of like 421 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: that your mom shaming, like, oh, why don't you leave 422 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: her alone? It's not your kid. If she wants to 423 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: put her if she wants to put her kid on 424 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: her TikTok or social media like this, who are you 425 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: to say anything? Do people ever accuse you of shaming moms? Um? Occasionally? 426 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: It's definitely died down recently, Like I get a lot 427 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: of like mind your own business or not not your kid, 428 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: not your problem. But I feel that the mom shaming 429 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 1: has died down a little. But I've also grown with 430 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: my platform, so I try really hard to you know, 431 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: inform and educate and offer a difference of opinion and 432 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: use examples that are you know, stitched and duetted and 433 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: user names are hidden and identities are hidden. You know, 434 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: some of these people have millions of followers, so like, 435 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: you know who I'm talking about. But I wanted to 436 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: be around the conversation versus trying to attack somebody. So 437 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: I think as I've grown with my platform, it's it's 438 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: died down because I'm really trying to I don't want 439 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: to mom shame. I don't want I don't think any 440 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: if a mother is making a different choice than me, 441 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: I don't think they should be attacked for it and 442 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: ridiculed for it. Because I don't think it's a black 443 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: and white issue. I think there is a lot of 444 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: gray um when it comes online sharing. I've said multiple 445 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: times that I'm not against all sharing, but I am 446 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: against parents making their content their kids. And you know, 447 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: of their content is their kid or their whole account 448 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: is solely their kid. Is very different than an influencer 449 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: who sometimes does a dance with their kid or shows 450 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: them at the park occasionally. Right, Like, there's gray, there's 451 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: a spectrum. Yeah, I I agree because I mean, I'm 452 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: gonna be honest like I when I'm scrolling TikTok, I 453 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: love children. When I when a cute kid doing a 454 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: dance or a cute kid doing something like, you know, 455 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: making food, and they're like pretend kitchen, and I love that. 456 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: I love that stuff. But honestly, it's made me take 457 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: a more critical look at my own role in the 458 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: content that I am consuming and thus incentivizing. You know, 459 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: we all love cute kids. Yes, if I'm seeing a 460 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: content where it's like this kid doesn't look happy, or 461 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: this kid looks like they've they've they understand that they 462 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: have to perform in a certain way to get validation, 463 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: and maybe they don't want to, and they're doing it anyway. 464 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: If it's made me take a much more critical eye 465 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: to the content that I am consuming and thus incentivizing 466 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: and you know, incentivizing them to keep making it, yeah, totally. 467 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: I And that's one of the things I've always hoped 468 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: is that parents and adults will reflect on the content 469 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: they are consuming, and if they were consuming these like 470 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: kids centric accounts, that they don't look at it as 471 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: a place of entertainment. They look at it from a 472 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: place of personal, lived, human experience of that child, right, 473 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: Like that child is not knowing or willing participant, right 474 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: because they can't they can't consent, They don't know what 475 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: social media is, they don't know they're being blasted to 476 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: a billion people on TikTok. So just to be able 477 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: to think more critically of how we are seeing kids 478 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: and interacting with them online is a big part of 479 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: what I talked about. Two. I've noticed there are content 480 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: creators who are talking about how they are no longer 481 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: going to be featuring their child on their social media content. 482 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: Do you feel that the tides are sort of turning. 483 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: I feel like the tides are like there, I feel 484 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: like there's like a little ripple, right, and you never know, 485 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: the ripple might turn into the wave or it might 486 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: just not go anywhere. But I've seen like really big 487 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: creators recently, some who are you know, pregnant or trying 488 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: to conceive, announced that like they won't be sharing their 489 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: chry oild on social media that like you know, maybe 490 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: from the back or something like that, but they firmly 491 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: believe they can't give inform consent. And when they have 492 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: platforms of millions of people and stuff like that, I 493 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: guess you would know how dark and scary and weird 494 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: it can get, right, so you maybe wouldn't want your 495 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: kid involved in that. And every day I have parents 496 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: reaching out to me just saying that I've changed the 497 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: way they thought in their own um, within their own family, 498 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: and the way they share online and the content they consume. 499 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: So I do see a little tied um, a little 500 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: ripple in the water of change, because again, like my 501 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: goal isn't to like get rid of kids on the 502 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: internet or anything like that. It's to really think about, 503 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: like to treat them as humans. And we wouldn't want 504 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: pictures and videos of ourselves circulating online without our knowledge 505 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: and consent. Yet we're doing this every day to our kids. Right, 506 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: It's just these things we have to think about. It's 507 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: it's important to think about these things. Yeah, my mom 508 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: has this picture of me framed in our house from 509 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: when I was a toddler, and it's it's an unflattering picture. 510 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm doing something very unflattering. And I always think, 511 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: thank God that we didn't have social media. It's like that. 512 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 1: It's like, as an adult, that was the image that 513 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: people associated with me still, like, you know if that 514 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: that image went viral, Oh, it will be a nightmare. Well, 515 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: we say, like, oh, so as a millennial, one of 516 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: our biggest things is well, I'm so glad that my 517 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: teenage years weren't blasted on the internet, or my childhood 518 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: wasn't blasted on the internet. Yeah, we are some of 519 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: the worst for doing it to our own children. So 520 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: it's just really interesting sometimes how people aren't connecting that, right, Like, 521 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want it done to you, You're glad it 522 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: wasn't done to you, yet you're actively doing it to 523 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: your children. You just need to self reflect on that. 524 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that, But you're 525 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: so right that we were. We are the ones doing it, 526 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: and we didn't we we were always talking about how 527 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: we're happy it didn't happen to us, and we're turning 528 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: it around and doing it to the next generation, exactly right. 529 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: And I think I I worry because some people are like, well, 530 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: you know, your kids aren't here, why do you care? Well, 531 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: I care because I care about kids. I care about 532 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: the generation of humans my children are growing up with 533 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: and around and amongst, right and right now, what we 534 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: know to be true is that the teens are really suffering. 535 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: They're becoming increasingly addicted to their smartphones and their screens. Uh. 536 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: Rates of you know, anxiety, depression, suicide, mental health in 537 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: general have skyrocketed since the advent of social media over 538 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: the past two decades. And my gut as a parent 539 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: says that if this is where our teens are at now, 540 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: why would we think it's going to be better for 541 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: the next generation. Why do we think having our kids 542 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: online and plastered on the internet at such a young 543 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: age is going to benefit them down the line? Right? Yeah, 544 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: I I'm right there with you, and I firmly believe 545 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,399 Speaker 1: that it's time to take meaningful, intentional steps to make 546 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: sure that technology and the internet is not creating a 547 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: generation that is worse off than the one before it. 548 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: I think that we're just moving very quickly, you know. 549 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: I think it's partly because it's our experiences are making 550 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: wealthy tech bros lots of money, and those those experiences 551 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: are like lining somebody's pockets, and thus we are not 552 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: stopping to be like, well, are we create Are are 553 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: we enabling the internet to provide healthy experiences for the 554 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: next generation or more fucked up experiences? And I deep 555 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: I deeply believe that young people deserve and the internet 556 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: that makes them feel safe and not exploited. Yeah, and 557 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: I yeah, it's just there's so there's so much, there's 558 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: so much to talk about. Yeah, it's like one of 559 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 1: those topics is like, wow, that's a real ball yarn. Yeah. 560 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: I just I just want parents to think. Right, That's 561 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: why I call myself mom uncharted because I don't have 562 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 1: the answers. No one does. This is uncharted territory, but 563 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: it is a massive element of parenting today. So we 564 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: need to talk about it. And let's just have these 565 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: open conversations and you can agree or disagree. You can 566 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: use your parental discretion and do whatever the funk you want. 567 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: But you need to just listen and reflect because as 568 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: you can't go to the library and get out of 569 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: book and learn about how this is all going to 570 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: turn out. Right, we don't know the consequences and ramifications 571 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: to all of this, and we're navigating it together, and 572 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: so at least we can talk about it. At least 573 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: we can you know, talk and have people just you know, 574 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: have a few lightbulb moments, change a few things. It's 575 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: just about opening a dialogue and having a discussion about 576 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: something that is literally like a massive aspect of arranging 577 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: these days. Yeah, one of my last questions, do you 578 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: have tips for maybe somebody is listening and they're like, 579 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: I want to be more intentional about how my kids 580 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: show up on my social media feed? Do you need 581 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: tips for that person listening? So, for me, what works 582 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: for my family and what I believe is the safest 583 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: option to protect your kids online as well as respect 584 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: their privacy as an individual is to just not post um. 585 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: That's my go to. However, if you feel like you 586 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: want to share with trusted family and friends, the best 587 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: option is to do so in private mode and really 588 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: curate your followers list, really know and trust those individuals 589 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: who are following along with your children and your family experience. 590 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: Those are always my go to tips. So I want 591 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: to know what you think if you're a parent or 592 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: a caregiver to a little one, what is your philosophy 593 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: about how both kids show up on social media and 594 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: how did you come to that decision? Shoot me an 595 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: email at Hello at pangoti dot com, because, like Sarah says, 596 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: we're navigating pretty uncharted territory here when it comes to 597 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: parenting children and the Internet, and I think that will 598 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: only really be able to figure it out by talking 599 00:38:53,040 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: about it together. Got a story about an interesting thing tech, 600 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: or just want to say hi? You can reach us 601 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: at Hello at tang godi dot com. You can also 602 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. There 603 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me 604 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: Bridget Tod. It's a production of I Heart Radio and 605 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison 606 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: as our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our 607 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want 608 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple podcasts. 609 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart 610 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.