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Speaker 1: We can't continue to allow China to rape our country,

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Speaker 1: and that's what they're doing. It's the greatest theft in

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Speaker 1: the history of the world. That's Donald Trump speaking at

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Speaker 1: a rally almost a year ago. His message that China

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Speaker 1: stole American jobs by taking away factories and using unfair

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Speaker 1: trade practices resonated so well that it helped deliver a

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Speaker 1: surprise election victory. In fact, China has provided a lifeline

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Speaker 1: to manufacturing in some of America's hardest hit cities. Take Moraine, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: where a Chinese company took over a closed General Motors

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Speaker 1: plant and turned it into a center for windshield glass.

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Speaker 1: As Trump prepares this week for his first ever meeting

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Speaker 1: with Chinese President shi Jinping, we're taking a closer look

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Speaker 1: today at the relationship between the world's two largest economies.

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Speaker 1: The truth is that it's a lot more complicated than

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Speaker 1: you might suspect. Welcome to Benchmark. I'm Scott Landman. Joining

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Speaker 1: me as a guest co host is my colleague Andrew Mayetta,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg reporter here in Washington who covers international economics and trade.

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Speaker 1: Will also speak with a local official in Moraine who

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Speaker 1: helped bring in the Chinese investment. Then we'll talk with

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Speaker 1: an economics professor in Ohio to give us some more perspective.

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Speaker 1: But first, Andrew, thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. So, Andrew,

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Speaker 1: you visited this plant, the fu Yea Glass factory last

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Speaker 1: year and wrote about it. What did you find there?

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Speaker 1: It was really interesting, as you mentioned that plant had

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Speaker 1: previously been empty for empty for several years. It was

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Speaker 1: previously a GM plant that produced Chevy trailblazers, I believe,

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Speaker 1: but it was closed in GM's restructure and following the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis, and a Chinese company called fu Yeau Glass

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Speaker 1: came in and at that facility and has since been

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Speaker 1: raped ramping up hiring. They make UH car windshields there,

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Speaker 1: um and virtually everyone that I talked to in town

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Speaker 1: thought it was a good thing. I mean, what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people said was, you know, those jobs don't

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Speaker 1: pay quite as well as the jobs at GM, but

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Speaker 1: it's better than an empty plant. That was the kind

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Speaker 1: of overwhelming message that I got from people. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting illustration of the complexities of

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Speaker 1: Chinese investment in the US. I mean, as on one hand,

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Speaker 1: you have politicians on campaign trails kind of vilifying Chinese investment.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, you have places like Moreno, Ohio

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Speaker 1: looking for capital, looking for investors in in their economies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really was a contrast when we are hearing all

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Speaker 1: this rhetoric during the campaign season, not just from Trump,

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Speaker 1: but you know also from some of it from the

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Speaker 1: Democratic side that uh, you know, critical of China and

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Speaker 1: the and the need to level the playing field, bring

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Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs back and so forth. Well, let's find out

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Speaker 1: more from somebody who's been closely involved in this issue.

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Speaker 1: Michael Davis, director of Economic Development for the City of Moraine,

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Speaker 1: is joining us on the phone now. Mike, thanks for

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Speaker 1: being with us today. You're welcome. I'm happy to join in. Mike.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit first about the

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Speaker 1: history of manufacturing in your area and what's happened to

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Speaker 1: it over the past years, kind of setting the scene

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Speaker 1: for us. Sure, we we have always had kind of

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Speaker 1: a significant presence of manufacturing in some respects. You could

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Speaker 1: have called us a GM town. We are a entering

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Speaker 1: suburb of Dayton, Ohio, and uh at one time in

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Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, GM was probably employing when you

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Speaker 1: include their suppliers upwards the twenty people in the city.

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Speaker 1: UM as years went by and various consolidations and UM everything.

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Speaker 1: As we pushed into the two thousand's, GM was still

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Speaker 1: employing about four thousand people, and it was very prevalent

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Speaker 1: operation manufacturing, manufacturing operation in our community. And then in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine is when we were hit with the

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Speaker 1: closure of the plant. UM leading to that at the

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Speaker 1: time of their closure, they were building I believe his reference,

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Speaker 1: the Chevy Trailblazer, the GMC envoy, UM, the SOB nine X,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of others or utility vehicles. And so

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Speaker 1: how did the deal with FU Yeah, then come about

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Speaker 1: after the closure and how did how did you help

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Speaker 1: make that happen? When when some of the economic downturn happened,

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Speaker 1: you could kind of say that Moraine was the microcosm

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Speaker 1: of the national economy. We UM, really all you had

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Speaker 1: to do was take a look at Moraine and see

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Speaker 1: what was going on across the entire country. And so

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Speaker 1: the first thing that we did is we really we

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Speaker 1: went out to try to understand maybe what other communities

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Speaker 1: across the country had done or had experience when they

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Speaker 1: had a large manufacturer closed. And really what we did

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Speaker 1: is we said, Okay, we have a talented workforce, we

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Speaker 1: have over four million square feet of existing manufacturing space. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, instead of harping on these as negatives, let's

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Speaker 1: turn around and use these as resources and positives to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is why you need to come here.

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Speaker 1: We we have the skill, labor already in place, and

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Speaker 1: we've got space that UM is located in good proximity

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Speaker 1: on Interstate seventy and reasonable and cost and had received

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Speaker 1: a lot of updates over the years as general motors

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Speaker 1: continue to invest money into the facility, so it was

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Speaker 1: in relatively good shape UM. Based upon that, we just

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Speaker 1: continued to try to increase the visibility working with the

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Speaker 1: State Ohio, and we had finally in had received kind

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Speaker 1: of a state uh so I selection inquiry for a

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Speaker 1: project called Projects Southbound, and that's really what led to

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Speaker 1: the initial communication and the startup and trying to attract

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Speaker 1: what would ultimately be if we a and did you

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Speaker 1: have were their incentives involved that either Moraine or your

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Speaker 1: county or the state provided uh all that this was

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Speaker 1: definitely a collaborative effort. A lot of partnership went into this,

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Speaker 1: and there there were incentives at the state level, and

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Speaker 1: then we had to you know, initially, I think there

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Speaker 1: was about five to seven states that were competing for

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Speaker 1: this effort, and there was more than one site, even

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Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio. So the state and syentioms

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Speaker 1: were based on those final two sites in Ohio, and

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Speaker 1: we were still competing against Michigan as well and h

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Speaker 1: ultimately Montgomery County. The city of Moraine had to step

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Speaker 1: in and provide additional assistance to kind of separate ourselves

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Speaker 1: out from the other competing site that was that was

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Speaker 1: in Ohio. Michael, what would you say has been the

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Speaker 1: effect on the community, On the local community of Moraine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as I mentioned, a lot of folks that

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Speaker 1: I talked to said they thought it was a good

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Speaker 1: thing that the Chinese were coming in and investing in

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Speaker 1: that plan. But you know, from time to time I

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Speaker 1: did run into people and said, hey, look sure sure

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Speaker 1: look back wistfully on those on those well planing uh

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Speaker 1: GM jobs with the defined benefit pension plans. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would you say the overall effect has been. I

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Speaker 1: think the overall effect has been positive from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: that when we did the initial attraction it was going

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Speaker 1: to be a two hundred million dollar investment in about

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Speaker 1: eight hundred jobs, and after working with the Chairman and

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Speaker 1: his staff and understanding the success they're gonna happen here,

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Speaker 1: the acquisition of a glassmaking facility in mal Zion, which

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Speaker 1: is outside of Chicago in Illinois, and that proximity really

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Speaker 1: encouraged the chairman to take a look at both the

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Speaker 1: production for the new vehicle glass but as well as

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Speaker 1: the aftermarket, and then encouraged the second investment announcement literally

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Speaker 1: year later. The first was in January fourteen, the follow

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Speaker 1: up was in January fift and so what ultimately has

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Speaker 1: happened is we now have two thousand folks that are

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Speaker 1: employed in the facility. There's been six hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: pumped into it, and that investment continues to increase um.

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Speaker 1: What we've seen the overall impact on the community is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Moraine took a hit that was well over

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Speaker 1: of our operating budget, and we've now been able to

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Speaker 1: really kind of infuse some of those dollars from this

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Speaker 1: investment back in the community with capital improvements, road infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and various things that are benefit to both are corporate

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Speaker 1: citizens and the folks who drive into the city every

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Speaker 1: day as well as our citizens who live here. Well,

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Speaker 1: that really sounds like it's been a net positive for

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Speaker 1: the community. But Mike, what about the political side of things?

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Speaker 1: That anger over China really touched a vein not only

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Speaker 1: in Ohio but across the country. Trump won the state

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Speaker 1: of Ohio by eight percentage points, which really was an

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Speaker 1: unexpectedly large margin. Do you think that people in your

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Speaker 1: area might have less anger towards China as a result

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Speaker 1: of this investment by Fuya? You know, that's probably kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to gauge. UM. I think a little more

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Speaker 1: time would be needed to to to understand that. What

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Speaker 1: I will say is that, um, this investment, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of is relatively new, and even though it's substantial

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Speaker 1: and one of the largest direct foreign investments in the

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Speaker 1: country over the past ten years, UM, at the time,

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Speaker 1: I think that the entire presidential race and everything was ongoing,

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Speaker 1: was I don't think there was enough exposure on this

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Speaker 1: investment to where it was maybe as well known to

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Speaker 1: the national community and economy as it should have been.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that Chairman Chow deserves a lot

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Speaker 1: of credit in really initiating such a large investment that

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Speaker 1: we believe and from what we're hearing is spurring other

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Speaker 1: folks to take a look and other Chinese companies to

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Speaker 1: take a look at investing here and realizing that they

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Speaker 1: can be successful. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about what it's like to work with the Chinese investors?

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Speaker 1: I mean you talked about Chairman Chow, I mean I

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Speaker 1: interviewed him. How different was the actual experience on the

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Speaker 1: shop floor than what has perhaps depicted when people think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what Chinese investors are like. I think, first, um,

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Speaker 1: my experience has been nothing but positive throughout the entire process.

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Speaker 1: They were very deliberate and understanding. But you know, you're

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Speaker 1: looking at this uh ginormous property with three acres and

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Speaker 1: you know, four million square feet, so they really got

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Speaker 1: down to the details to understand the operational cost uh

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Speaker 1: the utilities. You know, we we bring out, brought a

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Speaker 1: lot of partners in, and then we had to work

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Speaker 1: through the understanding of Okay, what can we do to

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Speaker 1: be cost competitive on all aspects utilities and workforce to

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Speaker 1: make this happen. Um, as far as you know, on

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Speaker 1: the on the workstop floor, it's my understanding that things

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Speaker 1: over there, they're ironing out you know, the maybe some

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Speaker 1: communication efforts, and there were also you know, in the

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Speaker 1: middle of this monster development and huge expenditure that there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a learning curve as they're pushing forward. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, their commitment the actual acquisition and closing of

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Speaker 1: the property was in twenty in May. We're almost at

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Speaker 1: three years and they've invested again nearly six hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 1: They are up and running, they're employing two thousand people,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the hope is that in eighteen

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Speaker 1: they actually be turning a profit. And in that process,

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Speaker 1: you know, there there there's been two editions of over

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Speaker 1: two thousand square feet that's been added, and there has

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Speaker 1: also been the leasing of the remaining portion of the

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Speaker 1: GM facility that was divided out, which I think they're

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Speaker 1: releasing about another two d and sixty thousand square feet there.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, i'd say there's been some growing pains in

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Speaker 1: respect to UM understanding what they initially we're going to

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Speaker 1: need and where they are now. As far as you know,

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Speaker 1: a labor on the manufacturing floor, I'm not really able

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Speaker 1: to comment on that. I do know that interviews are

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Speaker 1: held here often and most people are very excited that

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Speaker 1: they're here and happy to to be an employee of

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Speaker 1: of who you one last question before we wrap up, Mike,

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Speaker 1: should President Trump come and see this factory in Moraine?

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Speaker 1: Have you invited him to come out there? I what

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Speaker 1: I can tell you is in October of last year

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Speaker 1: there was a grand opening. I know there were a

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Speaker 1: lot of Chinese dignitaries that were here, and there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks from Washington, d C. That we're invited,

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Speaker 1: and several of our congressmen also attended. I do not

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Speaker 1: know at that time if whether President Obama or Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton or Donald Trump were invited to that UM. What

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Speaker 1: I would say is that if you want to showcase

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Speaker 1: across the nation UM a beautiful direct foreign investment that

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Speaker 1: has proven to be tremendously successful and is continuing to grow.

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Speaker 1: I think I think anybody UM they would like to

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Speaker 1: see that replicated across the country should come and take

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Speaker 1: a look. And that train whistle sounds like it's time

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Speaker 1: to wrap up here. Mike, thanks so much for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to speak with us today. You're welcome. Now

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Speaker 1: for some broader perspective, let's go to Susan Helper. She

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Speaker 1: has been an economics professor at Case Western Reserve University

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Speaker 1: in Cleveland for twenty years, and also recently served as

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Speaker 1: chief economist at the U S Commerce Department. Her research

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Speaker 1: has focused on how to revitalize US manufacturing. Sue, thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us today. Thank you. Now, we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about the fu y Out glass factory in Moraine,

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Speaker 1: hearing the story about that. How would you sum up

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Speaker 1: the bigger picture with manufacturing in Ohio and across the

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Speaker 1: United States in recent years? So across the US, um

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Speaker 1: we've seen since between about nineteen sixty and about two

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Speaker 1: thousand UM there were between fifteen and seventeen million manufacturing

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Speaker 1: jobs and just sort of fluctuated regularly with the business cycle.

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Speaker 1: Starting in two thousand, there was this historic decline. We

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Speaker 1: lost of manufacturing jobs between two thousand and two thousand

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Speaker 1: and ten, and then about eight hundred thousand of those

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Speaker 1: came back or have come back since two thousand and then.

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Speaker 1: It's been kind of stable since then. In Ohio is

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Speaker 1: part of that. Pick sure, there's been a general move

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Speaker 1: of manufacturing both out of cities and out of the North,

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Speaker 1: and so existing cities manufacturing heavy cities like Cleveland and

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Speaker 1: Dayton and Toledo have been hurt a lot um the

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Speaker 1: suburbs less so of those cities, But overall, I think

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Speaker 1: the manufacturing employment in Ohio has been slightly worse than

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Speaker 1: those national trends that I've stated. So, so when you

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Speaker 1: talk about the decline of those manufacturing jobs, both in

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Speaker 1: Ohio and across the nation, how much of a villain

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Speaker 1: has China been in that decline? Well, this is quite

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Speaker 1: a contentious topic. I think that the best research has

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Speaker 1: been done by David Otter of m I T and

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Speaker 1: colleagues Gordon Hanson and David Dorne, and they've found um

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Speaker 1: about twenties I percent of this decline that I mentioned

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Speaker 1: in manufacturing overall can be attributed to the rise of China.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of other studies that find using a

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Speaker 1: different method, that find a similar decline. There's these studies

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Speaker 1: have been challenged, but but I think that that that

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Speaker 1: it's the auditor enhancing has filled the gold standards, so

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Speaker 1: it's it's a significant a part of the decline is

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Speaker 1: due to China. See what do you make of the

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Speaker 1: argument that President Trump has made as president on the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail that he can bring the jobs back to America,

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Speaker 1: based on your understanding of how the manufacturing sector works,

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Speaker 1: the history of the sector, how realistic is that? So

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Speaker 1: I think the jobs could be brought back. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that any of the policies that Trump has announced

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Speaker 1: so far as the administration, you know, would be sufficient

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Speaker 1: to do that. But those are two very different questions.

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Speaker 1: One of the things so, so eight hundred thousand jobs,

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Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs came back to the US between two thousand

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Speaker 1: and twenty fifteen, and there's some analysis done by the

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Speaker 1: White House Council of Economic Advisors at that time that

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Speaker 1: showed that a lot of that was because of a

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Speaker 1: structural change and the way companies thought about manufacturing in

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Speaker 1: the US, partly as a result of government programs, partly

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Speaker 1: as a result of changes abroad, and partly as a

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Speaker 1: result of companies doing a better job of understanding their

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Speaker 1: own costs. Um So, one of the things that companies

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Speaker 1: measure really well is their direct costs of factory labor.

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Speaker 1: And that's the one cost that falls when you go

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Speaker 1: to a company a country like China. Uh. Lots of

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Speaker 1: other costs rise, but they rise in ways that are

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Speaker 1: really hard to capture in existing accounting systems. You know,

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Speaker 1: so you may take longer to debug apart because you're

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Speaker 1: talking to somebody at different time zone in a different language. Um,

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Speaker 1: your engineer travel there, and then they lose a bunch

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Speaker 1: of time both there and on the way back to

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Speaker 1: the jet leg Uh, you have a lot longer lead time. UM.

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Speaker 1: These are things that have been very hard to value.

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Speaker 1: And Uh. Increasingly companies are understanding that those costs are

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Speaker 1: are actually quite high. And then the costs that they

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Speaker 1: do measure are also rising. So, particularly wages in China

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Speaker 1: are rising. Um. And so there's a bunch of factors

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Speaker 1: that are causing companies to come back. And then I

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Speaker 1: think under Obama there were some policies that that helped

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Speaker 1: with that, so creating of programs that facilitate the creation

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Speaker 1: and introduction of new manufacturing technologies, that helped train skilled

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Speaker 1: manufacturing workers, um, et cetera. Now you've mentioned that there

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Speaker 1: were eight hundred thousand manufacturing jobs that came back. Can

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Speaker 1: we get to a point where you restore the many

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Speaker 1: millions that have been lost over the last twenty years?

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Speaker 1: Is that even possible? It seems to be what President

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Speaker 1: Trump wants. And how much of a role could Chinese

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Speaker 1: investment such as the glass investment. How much can that

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Speaker 1: play a role in boosting these manufacturing jobs within the

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Speaker 1: borders of the United States. So yeah, so I think

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Speaker 1: it's unrealistic to bring back, uh, you know, five million jobs.

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Speaker 1: And I guess I occupy somewhat of an odd space

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Speaker 1: in this debate. You know, it seems like the polls

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Speaker 1: are either zero jobs can be brought back, um because

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Speaker 1: it's changed, or you know, they can all come back,

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Speaker 1: and I, you know, I think that some could come back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so if you think about a country like Germany, uh,

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Speaker 1: wages are higher than they are in the US, and

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Speaker 1: they have of their GDP and manufacturing, we have about

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Speaker 1: twelve So you know, let's say we I don't think

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Speaker 1: it would be a stretch with good policy to say

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Speaker 1: we could get you know, fifteen to eighteen percent of

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Speaker 1: our GDP and manufacturing UM, and that would you raise

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Speaker 1: the percentage of employment. So manufacturing is more productive on average,

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Speaker 1: so it's about nine percent of employment is in manufacturing.

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Speaker 1: So you know, maybe we get to twelve percent of

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Speaker 1: employment or something in manufacturing. That's uh, that's a few

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Speaker 1: million jobs more than more than nothing, more than nothing, UM.

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Speaker 1: I guess I also care about the kind of jobs

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Speaker 1: that we bring back, and dangerous low wage jobs that

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Speaker 1: don't have much of a career path. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: I don't see a reason to kind of prioritize those

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Speaker 1: jobs in whatever sector they're in. You know, the reason

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Speaker 1: that I'm interested in bringing back manufacturing jobs is that,

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Speaker 1: on average, manufacturing jobs pay more, have a career path

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Speaker 1: for people of a variety of educational backgrounds, tend to

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Speaker 1: be associated with innovation. Um. But if the manufacturing jobs

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Speaker 1: in question don't do those things, then you know, I

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Speaker 1: personally am less interested in policy that brings them back. So, Sue,

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Speaker 1: what do you think the American rust belt is going

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Speaker 1: to look like in fifteen to twenty years? Um? Kind

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Speaker 1: of described to us what you think it's going to

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Speaker 1: look like? And can you also weave in how you

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Speaker 1: see China fitting into that equation? So I guess I see,

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Speaker 1: you know, two paths, a good path and a bad path,

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Speaker 1: And to some extent you know you can see mixes,

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Speaker 1: but to some extent you know their trajectories and with

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Speaker 1: their own virtuous, ambitious cycles. UM. So I think the

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Speaker 1: positive path is well to step back. I think the

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Speaker 1: issues with American manufacturing have been that, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of stuck in the middle. We're not innovative as

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Speaker 1: innovative as Germany, and we're not as low wages Mexico

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Speaker 1: or China. And you know, I personally would love to

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Speaker 1: see us move in a Germany direction. UM obviously not

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Speaker 1: imitate eat in Germany, but but adopting some of the

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Speaker 1: things that seem appropriate and giving them American twist. And

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Speaker 1: you know what could that could mean is there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of new technologies that are that are possible, So

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Speaker 1: things like robotics, things like additive manufacturing, uh, things like

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Speaker 1: what's called industry four point, where you have a add

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Speaker 1: a lot more data in the manufacturing UM and this,

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Speaker 1: you know, makes it possible. One way of adopting all

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Speaker 1: this technology is a way that complements workers and so

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Speaker 1: then workers have access to the data these sensors are

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Speaker 1: providing and they can themselves make tweaks the production process.

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Speaker 1: And so then you get UM workers that are extremely

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Speaker 1: productive and they're tied in both detail with detailed knowledge

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Speaker 1: to the shop floor, but also have an understanding of

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Speaker 1: what they're doing. The principles that can be promoted to

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Speaker 1: be supervisors or go on and get further education and

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Speaker 1: to say becoming engineers. UM. So this is not this

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Speaker 1: is somewhat like the path of a Siemens plant that

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Speaker 1: I visited in North Carolina, where they basically invest a

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Speaker 1: couple hundred thousand dollars in an apprentice uh and these

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Speaker 1: people when they complete the apprenticeship, they're making about sixty

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Speaker 1: dollars a year. UM. So these are you know, good jobs.

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Speaker 1: They had the option to go on and get further

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Speaker 1: school and become a degreed engineers. So that's you know,

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Speaker 1: I think a path that would be great for individual

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Speaker 1: workers be great for the economies in which they're employed.

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Speaker 1: I think there's another path, which is um. You know,

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Speaker 1: the US still has a lot of population density it

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Speaker 1: uh uh is an attractive market. UM. As wages rise

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Speaker 1: abroad in countries like China and Vietnam and Mexico, as

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Speaker 1: shipping costs rise, uh, it becomes attractive to bring assembly

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Speaker 1: of heavy stuff back to the US. And typically those

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Speaker 1: jobs aren't done in a particularly skilled way. You're just

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Speaker 1: kind of snapping stuff together. UM. Companies try to do

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Speaker 1: it very quickly and without a lot of training, and

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Speaker 1: you know, pay people eight to ten to twelve dollars

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Speaker 1: an hour. Uh, that's another path. Well let's talk well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about that. That is the I think the

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Speaker 1: key point the Fuyout glass plant as uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as the local official told us, it's it's brought jobs back.

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Speaker 1: It's been it's been a net positive for the local

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Speaker 1: economy there. You know clearly, um, you know, bringing a

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Speaker 1: dead General Motors plant back to life is something that, uh,

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Speaker 1: that that can help the community. But are those the

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Speaker 1: kinds of jobs? Is this is this investment by big

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Speaker 1: Chinese company a you know, really a net positive for

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Speaker 1: the economy and work or is it or or is

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Speaker 1: it not the kind of manufacturing that would really help

401
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Speaker 1: the economy. You know, it's got elements of both. So

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Speaker 1: it's paying you know, twelve dollars an hour, which is

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Speaker 1: above the Ohio minimum age or the federal minimum age. Um.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, I guess I don't understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: so much about the path for advancement. We know that

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Speaker 1: it's been a pretty dangerous plant that you know, Ocean

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Speaker 1: doesn't go after a lot of plants, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that they've had repeated investigations and paid a couple hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars and find that, again not typical UH Ocean's

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Speaker 1: finding power is quite low. So I think that we

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Speaker 1: need to push harder on these well on all employers. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think that there are attractions, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: Chinese companies have discovered as American companies have that it's

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Speaker 1: you want to supply the US market. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of advantages to doing it from the US. And you

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Speaker 1: can imagine even that plant adopting different kinds of production

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Speaker 1: recipes where you have more productive workers who are well

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Speaker 1: trained UH and UM, able to innovate, and able to

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Speaker 1: sell higher end products. So I would you know, push

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Speaker 1: particularly before giving that company any more incentives to expand

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Speaker 1: that that they UH, you know, at a minimum, fully

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Speaker 1: correct these safety violations. I know they've invested several million

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Speaker 1: dollars in doing so is that enough, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And then push, you know, let's create a career path,

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Speaker 1: let's figure out you know, involving workers in UH innovation

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Speaker 1: and in debugging of new processes is a way to

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Speaker 1: both justify higher wages and benefit the company. So so,

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Speaker 1: just to wrap up, what would you say is kind

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Speaker 1: of the big picture here for Chinese investment in the

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Speaker 1: U s economy, in particularly the manufacturing sector. If I'm

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Speaker 1: a worker in Moraine, Ohio at the moment, how optimistic

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Speaker 1: should I be about these types of investments, especially with

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Speaker 1: the President Trump and Chinese President Hijin pingg about to

434
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: meet now. So I think there's gonna there's reasons for

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00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: the Chinese to want to invest in the US. UM.

436
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's an attractive market, and UM, it's going

437
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: to be attractive for them to supply it from the US.

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00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: And I think it's incumbent upon policymakers to make sure

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00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: that those are good jobs and that the Chinese adapt

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00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: to the characteristics of the American workforce, which is more

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00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: educated than perhaps the workforce that they've been exposed to

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00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: in China, and that they contribute to educating that workforce.

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00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I think there's a potential for a

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00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: usually beneficial relationship and uh, maybe pushing a little harder

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00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: on both the safety and the wage questions. UM can

446
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: can do that, UM, And I think we've you know,

447
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: we've seen a few Chinese companies that have actually moved

448
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: in that direction. All right, Well, we'll see how that

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00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: plays out. And thank you very much for joining us today,

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00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: Professor Helper. So, Andrew, what's your takeaway from all this?

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00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: What what did what did we learn about that that

452
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: you didn't pick up during your reporting trip out there? Well,

453
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: what I heard is that these towns like Moreno Ohio,

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00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: they want the capital, and China has deep pockets and

455
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: it has lots of capital. So it's a natural relationship.

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00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: It's a mutually beneficial relationship. What I took away from

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00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: Sue at Case Western was it what's good for companies

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00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: and what's good for a town's revenue base is not

459
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: necessarily good for the American worker. Yeah, Andrew, it's really remarkable.

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00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: I mean, if we could see President and Trump go

461
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: out there, uh, for example, and visit that plan and

462
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: get a different perspective from somebody who talked so much

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00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: during the campaign about China raping, uh, raping this country,

464
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: all the unfair trade practices and so on and so forth.

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00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he softened some of that rhetoric since he

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00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: became president. He's meeting with President Chief and paying very shortly.

467
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: But you know, there's definitely more wrinkles in this relationship

468
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: between the two countries than most people know about. Yeah,

469
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: I think he would see that that those some of

470
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: those jobs have come back. But I think the other

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00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: thing he will see is on that assembly line, there's

472
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot more automation than there used

473
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: to be. There's a lot of robots putting together those windshields.

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00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: So bringing jobs back is not as simple as just

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00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: moving pieces around on a map. When you bring jobs

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00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: back over the borders, sometimes those jobs changed. So I

477
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: think that the picture he would see would be perhaps

478
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot more complicated than the one he has conveyed.

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00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: But bringing those jobs could definitely use from some help

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00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: from China, at least as we've seen from this investment.

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Speaker 1: For sure. Right, China is not simply a villain, that's

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00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: for sure in this story. All Right, Benchmark will be

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00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: back next week, and until then, you can find us

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00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, or Bloomberg App,

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00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: as well as on iTunes, pocketcasts, and Stitcher. While you're there,

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00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: take a minute to rate and review the show so

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00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: more listeners can find us and let us know what

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00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: you thought of the show. You can follow me on

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00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: Twitter at Scott Landman and Andrew. You are at a

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00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: M A Y E D a Benchmark is produced by

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00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: Sarah Patterson and the head of Bloomberg Podcast is Alec McCabe.

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00:30:41,440 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time. Four