Speaker 1: I miss the green. For example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 3: In a bride egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg
Speaker 3: Friday Frida Egg Egg, Fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about
Speaker 3: ready to run off of the hump.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today I am
Speaker 1: joined again by Joseph Lamanna. We have a big interview
Speaker 1: with Billy Horschel today. He obviously won down in Puntakana
Speaker 1: earlier this year and has been kind of having a
Speaker 1: resurgent year after a down twenty twenty three. Uh so
Speaker 1: he's he's back in great form. It was great to
Speaker 1: talk to Billy about that and a bunch of other stuff,
Speaker 1: including the upcoming US Open and also what's going on
Speaker 1: in pro golf. So before we get to that, we're
Speaker 1: going to do our in and out segment. Joseph, what
Speaker 1: are you in on?
Speaker 4: Andy?
Speaker 3: I am in on Championship set up Wrinkles. So in
Speaker 3: case people missed it, the USGA on Sunday of the
Speaker 3: US Women's Open turned the par four sixteenth that had
Speaker 3: been playing like three hundred and fifty yards into a
Speaker 3: much more reachable par four that was under two hundred
Speaker 3: and forty yards. And it seems like a true surprise
Speaker 3: to the players.
Speaker 4: And maybe I'm wrong about that.
Speaker 3: Maybe some players had inklings that they might there might
Speaker 3: be some kind of setup wrinkle, but I think it
Speaker 3: was a true surprise, and we just don't see that
Speaker 3: that much in championship level golf, where there's a wrinkle
Speaker 3: and setup like that.
Speaker 4: I thought it was cool.
Speaker 3: I'm all for some experimentation and I'd love to see
Speaker 3: a little bit more of that. Don't know if you
Speaker 3: had a similar takeaway, but I thought it was cool
Speaker 3: to get a completely different look at a hole that
Speaker 3: the players hadn't prepared for. Can frustrate some players, like
Speaker 3: it just plays differently, and I'm into that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think one of the trends in professional
Speaker 1: golf and this is bad, a bad trend for fans,
Speaker 1: which is a normal you know, most trends in professional
Speaker 1: golf at this point are not great for fans. Is
Speaker 1: that is that players are playing less and less practice rounds,
Speaker 1: you know, so it makes like the value of going
Speaker 1: to practice round smaller because most players play like nine
Speaker 1: to nine for two days and that's their kind of
Speaker 1: practice round schedule. But if you if you played a
Speaker 1: bunch of teas, if you said, all right, let's we'll
Speaker 1: set this up and you know, you got to be
Speaker 1: ready to play every tea box, I think people would
Speaker 1: practice more. And I think that's the the neat thing
Speaker 1: that you can do with set up. Obviously it's tricky
Speaker 1: with rope lines. I think that's the trickiest thing is
Speaker 1: like grandstands and rope lines where you have like infrastructure
Speaker 1: set up and it's hard to move that and it
Speaker 1: might not be feasible to really change every hole. But
Speaker 1: I love the idea of of, hey, this is the
Speaker 1: golf course. You don't know what it's gonna be set
Speaker 1: up as you're gonna have to you're gonna have to adapt,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to do this. Famously, you're you might
Speaker 1: be too young for this. But famously this happened when
Speaker 1: the uh the US Open was at Olympic Club. They
Speaker 1: moved the tea box way up on the sixteenth hole
Speaker 1: of the par five. Jim Furick was a leader. He
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do and he ended up hitting
Speaker 1: this like terrible smother hook if I remember correctly, and
Speaker 1: it really it cost him the championship. So this is
Speaker 1: this is something that can kind of befuddle, it can
Speaker 1: change the way it. I love surprising people. The professional
Speaker 1: golfers are just in general creatures of habit. Anything that
Speaker 1: throws them off of their regular routine is a nice uh.
Speaker 1: I think, little challenge, like you know, it's like a
Speaker 1: pop quiz. You know, you don't know when when something's
Speaker 1: gonna change. So I with that, go ahead. What are
Speaker 1: you in on, Andy Joseph? I am really in on,
Speaker 1: in particular the twenty thirties of the US Women's Open.
Speaker 4: Yes, is this just golfer the twenty thirties in general?
Speaker 1: The venues are incredible. What I'm out on? I hope
Speaker 1: I've I guess I'll do both of them. I hope
Speaker 1: it is figured out by then. So I thought trying
Speaker 1: to watch this tournament was extraordinarily frustrating. All the different
Speaker 1: channels it was on, all the different versions of it.
Speaker 1: There was a featured groups stream on NBC Sports Listen.
Speaker 1: It's great that we could watch a lot of it.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I'm upset about the volume. I
Speaker 1: think that we should be able to watch a lot
Speaker 1: of it. I just don't think it should in order
Speaker 1: to get a lot, we shouldn't have to jump around
Speaker 1: to like ten different platforms. So the Peacock to USA
Speaker 1: to NBC not really anything on Golf channel. It just
Speaker 1: and then you got feature groups on NBC. Sports jumping
Speaker 1: arounds hard. It's really hard to do. I'm I'm someone
Speaker 1: that understands how to use apps, and it's a struggle
Speaker 1: for me. So I can't imagine what it's like for
Speaker 1: someone like my parents, like my mom or my dad,
Speaker 1: who are avid golf watchers. Like I can't foresee a
Speaker 1: world where they're able to navigate from Peacock to USA
Speaker 1: to NBC. I just I don't think that's feasible. So
Speaker 1: can we just get it? Like why can't it just
Speaker 1: stream on Peacock the whole time? And it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I can watch this. I'll just watch this straight through
Speaker 1: on Peacock. It's all owned, Like why can't that be
Speaker 1: an option? It just seems to me crazy that we're
Speaker 1: changing the channel so much so much here in order
Speaker 1: to watch this golf and not only just changing it's
Speaker 1: not just changing the channel. It's having to switch from apps,
Speaker 1: which that's just like a whole nother barrier. We can't
Speaker 1: make this stuff hard to watch. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I hope it gets better by the twenty thirties because
Speaker 1: the venues, I mean, the US Women's Open has the
Speaker 1: best venues. It's way better than the men's because there's
Speaker 1: more variety. There's less reliance on Pinehurst and Pebble and Oakmont,
Speaker 1: so it creates way more variety and there are way
Speaker 1: more places that the women's game can go to. And
Speaker 1: Lancaster I thought was a great example of the type
Speaker 1: of golf course and the type of clubs that women's
Speaker 1: golf the LPGA Tour should be targeting, because this was
Speaker 1: an elevator, like it elevated the event. How good the
Speaker 1: golf course was playing. I have some qualms about, you know,
Speaker 1: the renovation that they did and the direction just generally
Speaker 1: of spending a bunch of money and not really improving
Speaker 1: the golf course. But the golf course is a great
Speaker 1: golf course. It's a great championship golf course. It has
Speaker 1: like so many awesome characteristics between the topography and and
Speaker 1: just the the greens and just the tilt of them,
Speaker 1: the severe greens with topography is just such a good
Speaker 1: recipe for championship golf. And then they had firm conditions.
Speaker 1: They you know, the weather was really good to them,
Speaker 1: so it was really great. But like, there's no reason
Speaker 1: why you can't go to some Lancaster type golf courses
Speaker 1: with your regular LPGA schedule. So anyways, in the twenty thirties,
Speaker 1: you women's game, it doesn't overpower these courses. If you
Speaker 1: put the men out at Lancaster, it'd be just a
Speaker 1: driver wedge fest. And that was like the that's the
Speaker 1: recipe is that this is golf courses can provide awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome defenses and really interesting product when they aren't when
Speaker 1: the golf ball doesn't go two miles. And when you
Speaker 1: look at this venueless for the US Women's Open in
Speaker 1: twenty thirty, it is unbelievable. Interlock in twenty thirty. Uh,
Speaker 1: they just reopened their golf course or they're about to
Speaker 1: reopen their golf course from me Andrew Green Renovation, I'm
Speaker 1: going to see it in August. I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 1: It's a Donald Ross arguably one of his you know,
Speaker 1: ten bet he's got so many I would just say
Speaker 1: ten best golf courses. Another Donald Ross Oakland Hills, the
Speaker 1: South course, that might be Donald Ross's best golf course.
Speaker 1: It is extraordinary, you know, top five set of greens
Speaker 1: probably in the country. Then they go to LACC that's
Speaker 1: going to be spectacular. After that, they go to Chicago
Speaker 1: Golf Club in twenty thirty three, then Marion in twenty
Speaker 1: thirty four, pretty good. Chicago Golf Club obviously is a
Speaker 1: venue that's unavailable to the men because of how far
Speaker 1: the off ball goes. Isn't that a shame? Twenty thirty
Speaker 1: five is Pubble Beach, which hopefully there'll be some some
Speaker 1: updates to Pebble Beach by twenty thirty five, maybe hoping.
Speaker 1: Then Shinnacock Hills in twenty thirty six. I think Shinnakock
Speaker 1: that's going to be a great US women's open course.
Speaker 1: One of the things that's been intertwined in Shinnacock's great
Speaker 1: history was women's golf was always a part of that,
Speaker 1: and championship women's golf was always a part of that.
Speaker 1: So twenty thirty six there, twenty thirty seven is open.
Speaker 1: It'll be curious to see what gets filled in there.
Speaker 1: Twenty thirty eight goes to Oakmont, and then twenty thirty
Speaker 1: nine is open. So a couple of courses that I
Speaker 1: would love to see considered. I think Cyprus Point would
Speaker 1: be the greatest US Women's Open host you could ask for.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they would be willing to host.
Speaker 1: I know they're hosting this Walker Cup, but that would
Speaker 1: be extraordinary. I think there would be some logistical challenges,
Speaker 1: like I don't know where you would put grand stands
Speaker 1: on fifteen through eighteen, but it would be really, really great.
Speaker 1: That would be one that I'd like to slot in
Speaker 1: there if you could. But there are so many other
Speaker 1: ones that could be, you know, the great host for
Speaker 1: the women's game. If you want to go somewhere in Ohio,
Speaker 1: you could do like Sciota. Obviously they have Inverness in
Speaker 1: the in the twenty twenties. But this Women's open venue list,
Speaker 1: I it's the best, is the best collection this is.
Speaker 1: It's a great sampling of American the great American golf
Speaker 1: across the almost the entire part of the you know,
Speaker 1: the US. Obviously the South is a little underrepresented, but
Speaker 1: you know, you go east, east to west, there I'm
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 3: That venue list gets me extremely excited, and I thought
Speaker 3: that was a huge part of the appeal. This past
Speaker 3: weekend was watching Lancaster, which is a complete different especially
Speaker 3: watching it at the women's scales, completely different experience than
Speaker 3: watching a lot of men's professional golf week in and
Speaker 3: week out. It's extremely refreshing. So I'm with you Andy
Speaker 3: on the part that you're out on with how difficult
Speaker 3: it was to watch, Like I think it was the
Speaker 3: first hour on Sunday was Peacock and then I believe
Speaker 3: it went to USA for an hour before moving on
Speaker 3: to network television for the rest of the day, and like,
Speaker 3: I couldn't remember my Peacock login and just decided to
Speaker 3: miss the first hour. And I think that's ultimately a
Speaker 3: decision that a lot of people make when they can't
Speaker 3: figure it out. So I agree, right, get great venues
Speaker 3: present it in a way that's easy enough for people
Speaker 3: to put on and doesn't require switching between a different inputs,
Speaker 3: and I think you have a pretty special product. What
Speaker 3: I'm out on is related to that, and it's something
Speaker 3: we've talked about in this section of the podcast before.
Speaker 3: I'm out on the lack of coordination between major golf
Speaker 3: organizations with the schedule, and specifically this past weekend we
Speaker 3: had two national opens, the US Women's Open and the
Speaker 3: RBC Canadian Open on the PGA Tour. The final groups
Speaker 3: teed off within ten minutes of one another. The final
Speaker 3: group at the US Women's Open teed off at two
Speaker 3: fifteen Eastern time. The final group at the men's at
Speaker 3: the Canadian Open teed off at two twenty five Eastern time.
Speaker 3: The final groups were going down the eighteenth whole at
Speaker 3: the same time. It's hard to watch both and with
Speaker 3: just a little bit of coordination, a little bit of staggering.
Speaker 3: I know that daylight is a concern and it's hard
Speaker 3: to coordinate all this stuff. Logistically, I think it would
Speaker 3: go a long way if you're not trying to watch
Speaker 3: two live trophy ceremonies and final groups going down the
Speaker 3: closing stretch at the same time. And when you talk
Speaker 3: about something like the Caitlin Clark effect and how the
Speaker 3: WNBA is getting more popular and there's this surgeon fan interest,
Speaker 3: part of the reason is obviously they have this transcendent
Speaker 3: athlete Caitlin Clark coming into the league, but it's also
Speaker 3: the way that they've coordinated the calendar. Like the NBA,
Speaker 3: the Men's Professional Basketball League is winding down right now.
Speaker 3: There's not games every night. The games are pretty spread
Speaker 3: out because we're at the finals and the WNBA season
Speaker 3: is just starting. So basketball fans can watch Caitlin Clark
Speaker 3: on primetime television. It's not competing directly against the NBA.
Speaker 3: Not saying that in professional golf, the men and the
Speaker 3: women need to play at completely different times of the calendar,
Speaker 3: but staggering within the day into different telecast windows would
Speaker 3: go a very long way instead of having the final
Speaker 3: groups tee off within ten minutes of each other. So
Speaker 3: I think that was a little bit of a failure
Speaker 3: to You're not really putting either product in a position
Speaker 3: to succeed by doing that, and it'd be much better
Speaker 3: if there was at least an hour hour and a
Speaker 3: half between them.
Speaker 1: Listen. Yeah, I agree with this. I'm gonna get to that.
Speaker 1: But you brought up Caitlin Clark as a big Chicago
Speaker 1: sky fan. I just want to say that I stand
Speaker 1: with my team. Oh, I see skyculture right there. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes things get physical, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 3: You're gonna wait into those waters and the Chicago sky
Speaker 3: Player taking a little cheap shot at Caitlin Clark over
Speaker 3: the weekend.
Speaker 4: But but honestly, that's the point.
Speaker 3: A lot of people are talking about it because because
Speaker 3: people were able to watch it.
Speaker 1: So I think there's like dovetails a lot with like
Speaker 1: what we're what we've talked about with Live and the tour.
Speaker 1: At this point, Golf's Golf's audience is too small to split,
Speaker 1: and this weekend was a loss for both the women
Speaker 1: and the men because it was split. And I think
Speaker 1: like this all goes back to the tour and their
Speaker 1: gluttonous schedule that that has made the tour's product very
Speaker 1: watered down. The Canadian Open should be a premiere event.
Speaker 1: It's got so much history. It's got quotes about Jack Nicholas,
Speaker 1: like talking about how important it would be to win
Speaker 1: a Canadian Open. At what point it was considered like
Speaker 1: a major and now it's like relegated to the event
Speaker 1: before a three week run of signature event at Memorial
Speaker 1: US Open and then signature event at the Travelers. Nothing
Speaker 1: screams big time event like Cromwell Connecticut. I know the
Speaker 1: fans show up, I know the sponsor is great, but
Speaker 1: the golf course isn't and it just that shouldn't be
Speaker 1: a signature event instead of the Canadian Open. Who's playing Hamilton,
Speaker 1: one of the country's greatest golf courses. But anyways, it
Speaker 1: goes back to like there were diehard PGA Tour fans
Speaker 1: who were watching the Women's Open instead of the RBC
Speaker 1: Canadian Open, And there were also diehard golf fans that
Speaker 1: were watching the RBC Canadian Open instead of the Women's
Speaker 1: Open that would have been tuning into the Women's Open.
Speaker 1: Coordination is so important because arising like, the more popular
Speaker 1: the women's game is the more chance that the men
Speaker 1: game has to grow because the women's game might attract
Speaker 1: different viewers in and then they might start watching the
Speaker 1: men's game and just like that, the men's game being
Speaker 1: more popular is good for the women's game. This is
Speaker 1: all They're all interconnected. They have to have to coordinate,
Speaker 1: and like if the tour just had a more bangeable schedule,
Speaker 1: like if we get to a point where it's like
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is a twenty event schedule or eighteen
Speaker 1: event schedule played globally, it would solve so many of
Speaker 1: these issues because the Women's Open this US Senior Open
Speaker 1: that's going to be played at Newport in a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks won't be opposite the PGA Tour. These big
Speaker 1: time events should get their shine. All these tours should
Speaker 1: work together to create And I know this is an
Speaker 1: idealistic and it's not always going to be perfect, but
Speaker 1: in the sense of the Women's Open, the biggest women's
Speaker 1: professional event of the year, you cannot have the Canadian
Speaker 1: Open running counter to that.
Speaker 3: Look, I agree you're going like you're talking about large
Speaker 3: scale coordination where you don't even have these events running
Speaker 3: at the same time, which would be ideal, like that'd
Speaker 3: be amazing.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: Smaller or less than that. The tea times can't be
Speaker 3: the final groups can't be on this on the same
Speaker 3: holes at the same time. Like just staggering it even
Speaker 3: a couple hours would go a very long way. So
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I'd love to see large scale coordination,
Speaker 3: but even just minor tweaks to where they're not teeing
Speaker 3: off within ten minutes of one another and on the
Speaker 3: on the seventy second hole at the exact same time
Speaker 3: and doing the trophy ceremony at the exact same time,
Speaker 3: like you had Bob McIntyre talking about his dad catting
Speaker 3: for him a pretty dramatic win the Canadian Open and
Speaker 3: Yuka Sasso doing her championship press conference or trophy ceremony
Speaker 3: at the exact same time, Like we got to avoid that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I you know that. I feel like
Speaker 1: we're a long way away from that. But maybe one
Speaker 1: can dream, all right, before we get to Billy in
Speaker 1: an interview with Billy Horschel, let's talk about our partner,
Speaker 1: the USGA. Here with the US Women's Open having just
Speaker 1: wrapped up and the US Open right around the corner,
Speaker 1: a lot of attention is being paid to all the
Speaker 1: work the USGA does to host world class championships. I
Speaker 1: think that's the best way to describe Lancaster last week.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we got the same get the similar playing conditions
Speaker 1: at Pinehurst number two and weather. However, the organization is
Speaker 1: responsible for much much more. Every year, the USGA devotes
Speaker 1: countless resources to ensuring the game of golf continues to thrive,
Speaker 1: for generations to come through programs that support junior golf,
Speaker 1: environmental and sustainability, and handicapping. When you become a USGA member,
Speaker 1: you play an important role in supporting the game you love.
Speaker 1: You also receive great benefits like a US Open Er,
Speaker 1: US Women's Open members hat, a personalized member bag tag,
Speaker 1: a subscription to the USGA's Golf Journal. There's really good
Speaker 1: stuff in the USGA's Golf Journal. I like devour it
Speaker 1: every time they send it out, and much more. Give
Speaker 1: back to golf and get back great benefits by visiting
Speaker 1: USGA dot org slash Fridaygg. That's USGA dot org slash
Speaker 1: Frida Egg to become a USGA member today. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get to Billy Horsechell. Big thanks to Billy for
Speaker 1: setting aside some time and being very open with his
Speaker 1: h with his answers here and uh and then we'll
Speaker 1: be back after the interview with the recommendations. Here's Billy
Speaker 1: horsh All right, Billy, you won the Puza Khana and
Speaker 1: I gotta say maybe the most iconic trophy and golf
Speaker 1: the white Jacket. I you know, I think the white
Speaker 1: jacket is in some play in recent years. And I've
Speaker 1: got a couple questions. Have you worn the white jacket
Speaker 1: since winning at Puntakana? And and be where do you
Speaker 1: keep it?
Speaker 2: I know I've put it on, you know a few
Speaker 2: hours afterwards on the plane flight to New Orleans. The
Speaker 2: boys on the plane wanted me to see it and
Speaker 2: the hat they want to see me in it. I
Speaker 2: may have put it on when I came home the
Speaker 2: week after New Orleans. Obviously they show the kids and
Speaker 2: the wife and having But where is the jacket. That's
Speaker 2: a great question. I don't know right now. The trophy
Speaker 2: We're in a house that is in our permanent house,
Speaker 2: and so the trophy literally is on the island in
Speaker 2: our kitchen and the hats on top of it. So
Speaker 2: we're like as a decorative thing, not the showcase the trophy.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know where the jacket is right now.
Speaker 1: It's the trophy is a little little center piece. I
Speaker 1: feel like the jacket. The jacket could be a good
Speaker 1: pool jacket. You know, you could just wear where to
Speaker 1: the pool. You know that that could be the.
Speaker 2: It's a great jacket if I want to have, like
Speaker 2: if if there ever is a party that's gonna be
Speaker 2: like an Havannah Knight, uh little little theme party. You know,
Speaker 2: I've got a jacket ready to go and I can
Speaker 2: just put that on.
Speaker 1: So given given where you were last year with with
Speaker 1: the struggles with your golf game, and obviously in terms
Speaker 1: of your career, puta kana and I guess what I forget.
Speaker 1: Additional event is the new term for not opposite field
Speaker 1: in terms of your career. It's not going to ever
Speaker 1: be like the one that people point out is the
Speaker 1: biggest win of Billy Horschel's career. But where did it
Speaker 1: rank in terms of the most satisfying win?
Speaker 2: You know, that's a great question. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think so if I go on over these next couple
Speaker 2: of years to to play some really good golf, to
Speaker 2: win more events, maybe get a major, maybe get a
Speaker 2: Player's Championship, make a Ryder Cup team. I mean I'm
Speaker 2: going to look back on the Pudakana tournament and be like, hey,
Speaker 2: the craless event, and say that was the stepping stone
Speaker 2: that I needed. You know, That's that's what sort of
Speaker 2: you know, gave me that little electric kick that I
Speaker 2: needed to to get back in the game where I
Speaker 2: wanted to be able to finally win a major, to
Speaker 2: finally get on a Ryder Cup team. You know, I've
Speaker 2: been playing really well all year up to that event.
Speaker 2: I felt like there was good stuff coming, and I
Speaker 2: felt like a win was coming. That's the reason I
Speaker 2: went down there. I could easily stay at home. I
Speaker 2: doal need to go down there to play that event,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to go down there to continue the
Speaker 2: momentum that I had early in twenty four and and
Speaker 2: maybe get a win under my belt. And so if
Speaker 2: that leads to, you know, like I said, winning other
Speaker 2: you know events, and like I said, getting maybe a
Speaker 2: major and getting on a Ryder Cup team in a
Speaker 2: couple of years, Like I'm gonna honestly look back at
Speaker 2: the Crowless event and say, hey, that was you know
Speaker 2: that a little extra confidence that I needed, just validation
Speaker 2: that I needed that we're doing the right things. I
Speaker 2: still have that ability to win events and and win uh,
Speaker 2: you know more key events, signature events, you know, legacy
Speaker 2: events that that I've always wanted to wear.
Speaker 1: Outside of the outside of the majors and uh and
Speaker 1: the players, what would be the crown jewel of you say,
Speaker 1: just the regular PGA tour like or signature events that
Speaker 1: you would want to win.
Speaker 2: I think you look at the three player Vitationals even
Speaker 2: before they were signature events. I think when you can
Speaker 2: add your name to a tournament like the Memorial with
Speaker 2: Jack Nicholas involved, When you can add your name to
Speaker 2: Big Hill that has Arnold Palmer, two legends in the game.
Speaker 2: Obviously you have Tiger Woods in his event out there,
Speaker 2: the Genesis Invitational. You know, I've been fortunate enough to
Speaker 2: win which is now called the CJ Cup, but the
Speaker 2: Byron Nelson, any name you can attach yourself to a legend,
Speaker 2: a Hall of famer, someone who has really dominated a
Speaker 2: game and changed the game. I mean, I think that's
Speaker 2: something special in the game of golf, and no one
Speaker 2: can ever take that away from you.
Speaker 1: You had a great Sunday at Valhalla, and I think, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that majors haven't been you know,
Speaker 1: exactly what you wanted them to be over the course
Speaker 1: of your over the course of your career. But what
Speaker 1: kind of confidence does having a top ten do for
Speaker 1: you going into Pinehurst?
Speaker 2: It does a lot. I think over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, I felt more comfortable finally majors. I finally
Speaker 2: felt like I don't need to be perfect to play well,
Speaker 2: even though it does challenge you and you do have
Speaker 2: to be precise, more precise than a regular PGA Tour event.
Speaker 2: I believe that finally getting over the hump and getting
Speaker 2: that top ten again, you know, it just validates that,
Speaker 2: you know, the comfort levels that I've felt over the
Speaker 2: last three or four years going the major. I look
Speaker 2: back at a few of the majors and been like, man,
Speaker 2: I really should have finished top ten there, And one
Speaker 2: of them was twenty twenty two Saint Andrew's Open Championship.
Speaker 2: I think I finished like fifteenth or eighteenth, two shots
Speaker 2: out of a tenth place, and I had five three
Speaker 2: puts on the greens that week and five three putts
Speaker 2: from off the greens that week, so it was sort
Speaker 2: of a frustrating week. There's other majors where I played
Speaker 2: really well, and I've had just an awful stretch of
Speaker 2: night holes that has cost me from possibly making a
Speaker 2: cut to possibly finishing and inside the top ten. Finally
Speaker 2: to get that top ten to finally, you know, and I,
Speaker 2: you know, get that monkey off my back. Honestly, to
Speaker 2: tell you the truth, it's just like, hey, I've always
Speaker 2: known I've had the game to be able to compete
Speaker 2: in majors, and even that week up until Sunday, like
Speaker 2: I played really well. I had gotten nothing out of
Speaker 2: my game, especially the first two days I've played really
Speaker 2: great and I didn't hold anything, and then lo whole
Speaker 2: comes Sunday, I hit it awful and I make nearly
Speaker 2: two other few to putts on Sunday to you know,
Speaker 2: shoot sixty four and finish top ten. So the game,
Speaker 2: as we all know, is very fickle, and you know
Speaker 2: you can never truly you never truly know when you're
Speaker 2: gonna do something special. But you just got to continue
Speaker 2: to stay patient and continue to put yourself and those
Speaker 2: situations until everything starts coming your way.
Speaker 1: You said you talked about not being perfect. Was there
Speaker 1: a moment that like just illuminated this to you, Like,
Speaker 1: was it you reflecting, were you just like sitting thinking
Speaker 1: about stuff, or was there a specific moment that got
Speaker 1: you to kind of this this headspace where hey, I
Speaker 1: don't have to be absolutely perfect at a major.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm a perfectious at heart, and so
Speaker 2: it's very tough for me not to think about being
Speaker 2: perfect on a somewhat of a concept basis. And then
Speaker 2: when you hear you know, growing up and being in
Speaker 2: tournaments and how precise you have to be at majors
Speaker 2: at how on you need to be at, you know,
Speaker 2: be able to win a major. I think that's sort
Speaker 2: of I'm not saying it doesn't hold weight, but you
Speaker 2: don't have to be you know, you know, firing all strides.
Speaker 2: You know, you just need to you know, your game
Speaker 2: needs to be in a really good spot, and you
Speaker 2: do need to have a little bit luck, and you
Speaker 2: do need to make some putts, and you do need
Speaker 2: his some quality iron shots, but you don't need to
Speaker 2: do it on a regal basis. And I think when
Speaker 2: you watch Tiger for so long and he talked about
Speaker 2: peaking and Tiger being a role model of mind, all
Speaker 2: those things sort of just wrapped itself in the sense of, hey,
Speaker 2: I need to be perfect playing majors, and so that
Speaker 2: was in my head for so long. I think I
Speaker 2: finally had my breakthrough about, you know, not being perfect
Speaker 2: at the twenty twenty. Yeah, I would say the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty US Open at wing Foot that we played in.
Speaker 2: Was it September, I think or August, I can't remember
Speaker 2: what month it was. I had Mark Faulture on the
Speaker 2: bag future caddy for Justin Rose for a decade plus,
Speaker 2: and I think just having him on the bag and
Speaker 2: the confidence that he had and seeing the way you know,
Speaker 2: he had seen Rosie play and get himself around the
Speaker 2: golf course and and you know, listing to foods to him,
Speaker 2: just taking his advice and doing things like that was
Speaker 2: a big moment. And there's another major right there. Like
Speaker 2: I was top ten with twenty seven holes left to go.
Speaker 2: I think I was a one or two shots off
Speaker 2: the lead going to the back nine on Saturday, and
Speaker 2: I just I just didn't play well. I hit some
Speaker 2: bad shots, I got ahead of myself, I started moving quick,
Speaker 2: and then I think on Sunday and they had played
Speaker 2: good good Sunday. But that was another major that I
Speaker 2: was right there, playing really good golf, you know, twenty
Speaker 2: seven holes away from you know, finishing off a really
Speaker 2: good major, having another, you know, possibly get another top ten,
Speaker 2: and I just didn't do it. But that that was
Speaker 2: a breakthrough major for me. I would say that finally
Speaker 2: got me out of my little headspace about perfection. And
Speaker 2: I still struggle with it every major, wanting needing to
Speaker 2: be perfect. The game doesn't feel great. But I've won
Speaker 2: tournaments on the PGA Tour, not how I mean my
Speaker 2: you know, fi and all cylinders, you would say, And
Speaker 2: obviously PGA two courses are completely different than major courses.
Speaker 2: But it just shows you you don't need to be perfect.
Speaker 2: And you watch other players win majors and and you
Speaker 2: see the mistics day making like okay, that it starts
Speaker 2: to resonate a little bit more.
Speaker 1: You talked about getting moving a little faster, getting a
Speaker 1: little quick in that wing foot thing. I think a
Speaker 1: thing that every golfer can relate with that at any
Speaker 1: skill level is the idea of how you feel one
Speaker 1: day to the next. And you guys play obviously, you
Speaker 1: know you're playing four days in a row. You know,
Speaker 1: one day everything can just lock in, feel terrific and
Speaker 1: you have a great day. The next day can feel different.
Speaker 1: How do you go about trying to get that same
Speaker 1: feel day after day on the PGA Tour or in
Speaker 1: a major, whatever it may be. How are the are
Speaker 1: there little like things over the years that you've picked
Speaker 1: up that help you do do that better?
Speaker 2: I think for me, if I'm trying to chase the
Speaker 2: same feel every day and it's a sort of a
Speaker 2: detriment a little bit, yes, I'm trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: find the same swing feel. You know, the same setup, feel,
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, but I realize it's going to
Speaker 2: be different every day and you've got to find some
Speaker 2: way to play well. And sometimes even though the feels
Speaker 2: off like it doesn't feel the same, the swing is
Speaker 2: still good, it's still technically sound, it's still quality enough
Speaker 2: to play good golf. It just feels a little bit different.
Speaker 2: And that's why I think it's so amazing what Scotti
Speaker 2: Scheffer's doing right now, because the way the body feels
Speaker 2: every day, the way you swing feels, the way the
Speaker 2: putt feels, and your hand, everything on a daily basis,
Speaker 2: like you may get sometimes you get a week where
Speaker 2: everything feels exactly the same day in and day out,
Speaker 2: the body feels the same, and other weeks you have
Speaker 2: every day feels a little bit different. But you still
Speaker 2: have to figure out a way to play good golf.
Speaker 2: You still have to figure out a way that that
Speaker 2: allows you to play well. And I think that's why
Speaker 2: it's so impressed at what Scott He's done, the level
Speaker 2: he's played at, the quality of ball tricking he has
Speaker 2: on a daily basis, Because I know personally and maybe
Speaker 2: maybe I'm different, but made the way I put my
Speaker 2: hands on feel different every day the way sometimes my
Speaker 2: setup feels the swing fields and it's just it's just
Speaker 2: the way the body is, like we want it to
Speaker 2: feel exactly the same every day, but some of the
Speaker 2: fuel is going to be different. But really the technical
Speaker 2: side and the way the swing feels it's still good.
Speaker 2: You just have to adjust to that field that day.
Speaker 1: I find it amazing with Scotty how I feel like
Speaker 1: the sport has gotten so technical. There's so much technology
Speaker 1: out there, and then you watch Scotty warm up and
Speaker 1: it's like this old, you know, plastic bolded grip that
Speaker 1: every kid had when they were when they were like
Speaker 1: a junior, and it's like, so he keeps it so
Speaker 1: simple that I wonder if there's a beauty and just
Speaker 1: how how simplistic like it seems like all of his
Speaker 1: work and I think he's he talked about this in
Speaker 1: his master's press conference. All of his work. The third,
Speaker 1: first thirty minutes of his warm up are seemingly around
Speaker 1: the very core fundamental basics of this is how I
Speaker 1: grip the club, This is how I set up to
Speaker 1: the ball, this is how I take the way the
Speaker 1: club away, And it's almost like he's gotten it so
Speaker 1: stripped down that only so many things can go wrong
Speaker 1: from the position he's getting in the first thirty minutes
Speaker 1: of his warm up.
Speaker 2: I think you're right, and I mean he's you know,
Speaker 2: he's focusing on the basics. And maybe that's why he's
Speaker 2: able to, you know, play as our play and strike
Speaker 2: it as well on radio basis. It's because of his
Speaker 2: foundation and how strong it is. And maybe you know,
Speaker 2: he does a better job than I on that, and
Speaker 2: that's why his feels are probably more consistent on a
Speaker 2: day to day basis in mind, and not that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to change anything, but you know, I've tried to
Speaker 2: as my teacher's always said, Todd Anderson, He's always said
Speaker 2: that eighty five percent of the time, if something's off
Speaker 2: and my swing feels off, it falls back into you know,
Speaker 2: my setup, you know how you know, how I'm set
Speaker 2: up to it. Pasture, grit babs, stuff like that is
Speaker 2: more likely the issue with with me, and so I've
Speaker 2: tried to be a little bit more diligent over you know,
Speaker 2: I go through bits and spells, but the more diligent
Speaker 2: I am about just the basics of fundamental basics of
Speaker 2: the golf swing. I think the more often that I
Speaker 2: feel least the feelings on that I would have on
Speaker 2: a day to day basis are more uh similar in
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: Has there been any discussion with with you guys out
Speaker 1: on tour about pulling together some funds and getting Detective
Speaker 1: Gillis out at more majors.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure we get that detective, but I think
Speaker 2: there's there's options of paying off some other detectives over
Speaker 2: the next few majors. You know, we're gonna find one
Speaker 2: in Pinehurst. I probably have some connections over the UK.
Speaker 2: I can find some some UK police, Scottish police, Uh no,
Speaker 2: I mean that's that situation was just hilarious and thankfully
Speaker 2: it got it got solved and the right outcome. Cane
Speaker 2: and listen. It was a misunderstanding. Scotty wasn't trying to
Speaker 2: you know, dry a cop or run him over or anything.
Speaker 2: You know, he thought he heard something and so yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's funny when you sit back here. Thankfully it's
Speaker 2: all solved. In anything, we can all sit back and
Speaker 2: laugh about now a little bit, but it's at the time,
Speaker 2: I mean, Scotty was a little shookn up by and
Speaker 2: we've we've all seen the video, Sell.
Speaker 1: I mean, the story is I think like we're going
Speaker 1: to sit back a few years from now and be like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe that happened. And like one of the reasons,
Speaker 1: one of the markers of that I found is I'm
Speaker 1: dropping my daughter off at preschool and preschool moms who
Speaker 1: don't know anything about golfer asking me what happened at
Speaker 1: the golf tournament. And to me that that's like a
Speaker 1: transcendent moment when preschool moms are asking you what's going
Speaker 1: on with Scotty Scheffler in this police incident. And I
Speaker 1: think anybody that's been at one of those tournaments, it's
Speaker 1: it's like it's a chaotic. Getting into a golf tournament
Speaker 1: is chaotic, and everybody that's ever been there understands exactly
Speaker 1: what he did, and it just yeah, so it's good
Speaker 1: it's over.
Speaker 2: As you said, I mean, getting into any sporty event
Speaker 2: and a golf event is chaotic. And then you add
Speaker 2: in the unfortunate situation of what happened early that morning
Speaker 2: with someone a pedestrian of volunteer lose their life, it
Speaker 2: just added to it exploded the situation with the weather
Speaker 2: and the rain and everything and so so yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean it was so unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very unfortunate, Morning Billy.
Speaker 3: You're known for at least I think most people are
Speaker 3: aware being data driven, knowing your way around shot link,
Speaker 3: having strong course management skills.
Speaker 4: I'd be curious how is leveraging.
Speaker 3: Data kind of changed the way you think about the
Speaker 3: professional game, and how has that evolved over the course
Speaker 3: of your career, Like, what are some of the things
Speaker 3: you wish you knew year one on tour because obviously
Speaker 3: you're making good use of it now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say I have to think about year
Speaker 2: one as I'm answering those side. For me, the data
Speaker 2: has been huge. I've worked on my stats, got forward
Speaker 2: ten years now morecore, and he's been, you know, very
Speaker 2: crucial to my team, very influential. You know, I've evolved
Speaker 2: over the ten years with him and the sense that
Speaker 2: everything he gave me early on I listened to to
Speaker 2: a t and then in the middle stretch I started
Speaker 2: questioning a lot about you know, his data, and then
Speaker 2: now we have a great little back and forth with
Speaker 2: his data and he's involved with his data and the
Speaker 2: way you play courses and certain misses and everything, and
Speaker 2: you know where you miss it. Certain spots may not
Speaker 2: be good for most people, but based off you know,
Speaker 2: your short game or certain other skills, it actually isn't
Speaker 2: that much of a detriment to you. So I think
Speaker 2: the thing that you know I wish, you know, going
Speaker 2: back to my year one on twour is I look
Speaker 2: back as I wish I would have seen, and obviously
Speaker 2: the game was already going there. But how massive of
Speaker 2: a distance? You know, hitting the ball is such an
Speaker 2: advantage if you're able to carry it three hundred three
Speaker 2: or five. I mean, it really does open up a
Speaker 2: big advantage over majority of the field, you know, by
Speaker 2: having more wedges and by having more short irons, and
Speaker 2: you know, being able to take out trouble because course
Speaker 2: designers and architects and the way course are set up.
Speaker 2: You know, if you you know, the bunker is flying
Speaker 2: at three hundred and three or five, you know opens
Speaker 2: up the fairway and takes out you know, those those
Speaker 2: trouble spots on on certain courses. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I over fifteen sixteen years now on tour, it's I've
Speaker 2: I've learned a lot and evolved with as as a
Speaker 2: player as any player would can you.
Speaker 3: Maybe give like a high level explanation of how you
Speaker 3: would break down a course that you haven't seen and
Speaker 3: maybe there's not any data on I don't want to
Speaker 3: lead the witness here, but like thinking about the value
Speaker 3: of finding a good angle versus avoiding hazards and how
Speaker 3: you look at a golf hole for the first time,
Speaker 3: can you maybe give a high level explanation of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so, you know, we don't really play a
Speaker 2: lot of courses that are new on PGA Tour, and
Speaker 2: when you know, even if we played a course that
Speaker 2: we haven't played a lot a lot of times, we've
Speaker 2: had data on it. I'll go back to Cherry Hills
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. First time we played there. You know, we
Speaker 2: had a game plane going in there looking at you know,
Speaker 2: and all the players do the same thing. But we're
Speaker 2: looking at, you know, the length of the hole, where
Speaker 2: to miss it all, what side of the fairway, based
Speaker 2: off the slope of the fairway, based off the slope
Speaker 2: of the green pen locations, you know, whether it's in
Speaker 2: the bunk or the rough hitting chips seeing you know,
Speaker 2: if you're short side yourself or you chipping to that
Speaker 2: pen location is it going to be sort of the
Speaker 2: ball in and on the downhill slope running away from
Speaker 2: the pen, or is it going to be landing on
Speaker 2: maybe something of an upslope where you can slow that
Speaker 2: chip down a little bit. All these little variables go
Speaker 2: in and so we had a great game plane going
Speaker 2: in Thursday. And then after Thursday's round, we went back
Speaker 2: and looked at all the shot linked data of all
Speaker 2: the shots played on every hole, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: I can't remember. We tweaked our game plan or maybe
Speaker 2: change a few things based off clubs being hit off tee,
Speaker 2: based off certain areas where guys were missing it around
Speaker 2: the greens, just to you know, give ourselves an advantage,
Speaker 2: and and some of that shot link that we looked
Speaker 2: at sort of just validated what we had already made.
Speaker 2: Came to that conclusion before we teed off on Thursday, like, hey,
Speaker 2: by being more aggressive on this tea, it's it's an
Speaker 2: advantage by hitting driver, because yeah, guys were in three woods,
Speaker 2: but if you miss affair with three woods, you know
Speaker 2: you hit it in the rough. You know, guys was
Speaker 2: you know, averaging you know, four point three from the
Speaker 2: rough and guys that were missing it by hitting driver,
Speaker 2: were averaging four point one if they missed the fairway.
Speaker 2: So just those little those those little data points sort
Speaker 2: of validates what we do, you know, the decisions that
Speaker 2: we make, and gives us competence on the tee that
Speaker 2: we do have the right club and we are playing
Speaker 2: the right shot.
Speaker 1: It's it's wild how that could happen. I remember I
Speaker 1: was playing a us M qualifier at a golf course
Speaker 1: that I'd played hundreds of times, and I I'd always
Speaker 1: played one hole the same way, like I hit an
Speaker 1: iron off the tee, and I'm playing this qualifier and
Speaker 1: I you know, it's a t tea that you kind
Speaker 1: of walk around a bunch and everybody's hitting driver and
Speaker 1: I'm just like, huh driver. And then the guy we
Speaker 1: get there and the guys that I'm playing with hit driver.
Speaker 1: They hit it up there. And I watched this unfold
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my god, this is so simple
Speaker 1: if you just play it this way. And it's got
Speaker 1: to be nice when you can sit back and look
Speaker 1: at how every exactly how everybody in the field played
Speaker 1: a hole. When you're you know, after a round, if
Speaker 1: it's the first time playing playing course or the first
Speaker 1: time in a long time playing course where you can
Speaker 1: see how everybody played the hole and look at like, okay,
Speaker 1: everybody's playing this way, maybe I should do something a
Speaker 1: little differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, on to that point twenty two at
Speaker 2: bay Hill matt Or API Invitational features on my bag
Speaker 2: and that week you know why we did that week.
Speaker 2: I've never done it before, and I played it at
Speaker 2: that point eight or nine times the event. On number thirteen,
Speaker 2: the short part foward there, everyone usually hits maybe like
Speaker 2: a long iron, maybe five wood off the tee, get
Speaker 2: it to around one hundred and fifty marker keeps you
Speaker 2: shore of the bunker on the right, and you have
Speaker 2: like a wedgend, you know, depending on of the wind,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe nine iron, eight iron. And that week,
Speaker 2: I don't know what we did in the practice on ourselfing,
Speaker 2: but we had three wood off the tee and it
Speaker 2: must have been in the practice isner and we got
Speaker 2: way down there where we were guaranteed a sand wedge
Speaker 2: or gap weg and the majority of time the winds
Speaker 2: in and off the right there and it swirls, and
Speaker 2: the way that green sits, the way it gets so
Speaker 2: firm and the pin locations like you know, it can
Speaker 2: make a tricky second shot sometimes, but by pushing three
Speaker 2: wood down there, we had sand wedging or a lob
Speaker 2: wedgen every day. And I think I played the whole
Speaker 2: two or three in the par the best I've ever
Speaker 2: played it. And it's pretty wide. It still is pretty
Speaker 2: wide obviously visually it looks narrow, and see the bunker
Speaker 2: on the left, bulk on the right, and sometimes you
Speaker 2: don't want to go in the ferry bunkers because you
Speaker 2: catch it a little fat. There's water there. But we
Speaker 2: played that hole aggressively and it paid off. And I'm
Speaker 2: curious to see if in the years that come, if
Speaker 2: that whole of guys start being more aggressive off the
Speaker 2: tee and push it down there, very similar to like
Speaker 2: the fourth hole here at tipp Sawgrass where Braindo's done
Speaker 2: an unbelievable Raydeld Shambley has done unbelievable little analysis of that.
Speaker 2: It talked about how over the years guys used at
Speaker 2: three with off that hole and the whole play too.
Speaker 2: I don't know, four point two scoring average, and now
Speaker 2: guys hitting driver is playing under poor. I think when
Speaker 2: you hit drivers, so you know, I wonder if you
Speaker 2: know when guys are having more you know, performance coaches,
Speaker 2: staff's coaches, whatever you want to say, course management coaches,
Speaker 2: they're looking at all this data and all I think
Speaker 2: they're all going to start looking at, you know, where
Speaker 2: the scores are coming from it and it changes the way, uh,
Speaker 2: the hole has been played for so many years.
Speaker 1: I wonder with with the majors, if that is actually
Speaker 1: some of that is that the rotating aspect of every
Speaker 1: major other than Augusta, it reduces the number of data,
Speaker 1: amount of data. It reduces the how often somebody's played there. Right,
Speaker 1: Like you're going back to Pinehurst, you you're one of
Speaker 1: the handful of players that played it ten years ago.
Speaker 1: Obviously with the with the way they've got the anchor sites,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a little bit more prevalent in
Speaker 1: the future. But that lack of data, players just don't
Speaker 1: figure out like these hacks, these shortcuts and like you
Speaker 1: see holes, Like one guy does something and it it's
Speaker 1: kind of like innovation in any other industry where somebody
Speaker 1: figures something out, a company figure something out, and it's
Speaker 1: like off to the races, like how many Uber four
Speaker 1: x are there? But like one player figures something out
Speaker 1: and then it becomes you know, almost the gospel on tour.
Speaker 1: Everybody does it that way. Do you think that major
Speaker 1: is the lack of the lack of is part of
Speaker 1: what makes the course, the courses more challenging.
Speaker 2: I do agree. I think not having that familiar airtea
Speaker 2: of the course. You know, obviously putting, you know where
Speaker 2: to put the ball in the greens, and just just
Speaker 2: putting aspect of it alone, how fast the putt it
Speaker 2: Sometimes you putt looks very fast and it's not, and
Speaker 2: sometimes it looks very slow and it's actually fast. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's very similar to Colonial last week with the new greens,
Speaker 2: like you have to relearn the greens again because there
Speaker 2: are different slopes and different shapes and everything. So that
Speaker 2: was a new aspect last week at Colernal Country Club.
Speaker 2: So the more we play a course, obviously just by
Speaker 2: playing even out without the data aspect, we learned by
Speaker 2: what we did personally on those holes when we played,
Speaker 2: and by watching other playing partners. And then now having
Speaker 2: the data aspect, you can go back and look at
Speaker 2: things and see how the majority of the fuel played
Speaker 2: it and for the longest point, for the longest time,
Speaker 2: the majors have had this data, and they haven't really
Speaker 2: at least it like shot like we get on shot
Speaker 2: Link on the radio time on the PGA tour. But
Speaker 2: now we're getting they've allowed us access and my guy
Speaker 2: Orty heat Uh, he's finagled his way over the years
Speaker 2: to get some of these these data, you know, shot
Speaker 2: link data stuff that other other people haven't. But now
Speaker 2: it's becoming more reletive, you know, available to everybody else.
Speaker 2: So it's still it's still a challenge because we just
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of data. We don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of history on it. Like you said, we're not
Speaker 2: playing on a yearly basis. The conditions aren't always the same.
Speaker 2: You know, when you play five six years in a row,
Speaker 2: you see them pretty much every type of conditions over
Speaker 2: a five year period. But like in fourteen it was
Speaker 2: very dry and I'm not sure which way the wind
Speaker 2: is blown, but you know, the conditions could be changed
Speaker 2: with the temperature, the course conditions, the wind directions. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's very similar going to Oakumart. I think next year,
Speaker 2: you know, all these things come into place. So there's
Speaker 2: not a lot of data, you know, that we can
Speaker 2: can use to really make you know, feel confident about
Speaker 2: some decisions that we make a lot of times.
Speaker 3: Billy, what are your lasting memories of Pinehurst? In twenty
Speaker 3: fourteen you finished tied for twenty third there, so four
Speaker 3: rounds under your belt. How do you think about that
Speaker 3: golf course and maybe how will that inform some of
Speaker 3: your preparation over the next week or so.
Speaker 2: So, you know that had just gone through a really
Speaker 2: early renovation, and so all that little native area crab
Speaker 2: grass era that wasn't really growing up. So when you
Speaker 2: did miss it off the fairway, you're really mostly just
Speaker 2: like a bunker and so is it wasn't too bad
Speaker 2: if you missed the fairway. I'm curious how it looks
Speaker 2: now with ten years of growth. And I'm sure they've
Speaker 2: maintained in and cut some things down this and that,
Speaker 2: but I'm sure there's gonna be more of that little
Speaker 2: native grass around off the fairways. Really my mic preparation
Speaker 2: for Pinehurst because it's the driving isn't going to be
Speaker 2: nearly as You're not gonna have to it nearly as
Speaker 2: accurate as you would, let's say, back in two thousand
Speaker 2: and five US opening, when it was tight fairway's long
Speaker 2: rough where you really did need to hit the fairway.
Speaker 2: Now you know, if you do miss a fairway sort
Speaker 2: of a fifty to fifty chance depending on the lie,
Speaker 2: you're gonna probably be able to get it up around
Speaker 2: the green and control it for the most part. So
Speaker 2: we all know about pieheurse greens and you know the
Speaker 2: way they all run off, So you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: have really really precise iron play. I remember Martin Kimer
Speaker 2: putted his way around there. Listen, he's not It's no
Speaker 2: secret that his short game is not that strong chipping
Speaker 2: the ball, but he has an unbelievable touch with the putter.
Speaker 2: And I just learn putting from everywhere. So that's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff. I'll do that week and see how
Speaker 2: much we can chip, see how much we can putt.
Speaker 2: But for me, it's it's, you know, over the next
Speaker 2: couple of weeks or next ten days before I get there,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna really work hard on my iron play and
Speaker 2: really have control of the golf ball the distances. Because
Speaker 2: the guy it's very similar to a gusta. I think
Speaker 2: the guy who hits the most greens, or the guys
Speaker 2: that hit the most greens are going to be up
Speaker 2: there near the lead come Sunday.
Speaker 3: Do you think about tweaking your equipment at all, like
Speaker 3: the way that your wedges interact with the turf, changing
Speaker 3: any of the settings there. I don't know if you're
Speaker 3: somebody that tinkers with your equipment in general, but how
Speaker 3: are you thinking about that with the unique turf conditions
Speaker 3: at Pinehurst?
Speaker 2: No, I don't change much. I mean, I have a
Speaker 2: I'll maybe switch my sixty out, my lobodge out once
Speaker 2: in a while. I'll go from a V grind to
Speaker 2: tea grind that has a little bit less bounced depending
Speaker 2: on the surrounding areas out of gust. I mean at
Speaker 2: Pinehurst obviously, I'm guessing. I mean it's probably Bermuda grass,
Speaker 2: so it's going to be probably grainy around there. I'll
Speaker 2: still probably keep my V grind in just because it
Speaker 2: gives me a little bit more bounce, a little bit
Speaker 2: more forgiveness around there. But yeah, I don't change much.
Speaker 2: I'm not one of those tinkers on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: I'm not changing my wedges out. I'm not changing my
Speaker 2: I'm not changing the bounce on my wedges a lot.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I said, I'm a creature of habit.
Speaker 2: When I have something that no works, I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep it that way because under the pressure pressure situation,
Speaker 2: I want to know, like how my club's going to
Speaker 2: perform when when I hit a certain shot.
Speaker 1: In terms of grass, I'm just you obviously probably grew
Speaker 1: up with Bermuda is and I think that's probably what
Speaker 1: I like, a West Coast kid would struggle the most with,
Speaker 1: or a Northern kid who would struggle the most with
Speaker 1: is Bermuda. Do you think being based with Bermuda is
Speaker 1: the biggest advantage on tour or and do you struggle
Speaker 1: with any other grass? Is there a grass that you
Speaker 1: just really you see, Oh this is this is grass?
Speaker 1: I don't like that.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's an advantage being on Bermuda,
Speaker 2: growing up on Bermuna for a multitude of reasons. I
Speaker 2: think learning to lies, how a ball sits, whether it's
Speaker 2: going to jump, whether it's gonna come out dead, especially
Speaker 2: around the greens. You know how you can hit certain
Speaker 2: shots to get the ball to come out dead if
Speaker 2: if a lie is going to come out with no
Speaker 2: spin or it's going to come out with spin. All
Speaker 2: those little things is an advantage in then green reading,
Speaker 2: understanding the grain, how much it affects a putt based
Speaker 2: off speed and everything. It's just sort of intuitive now
Speaker 2: for me, you know, being thirty seven, you know, playing
Speaker 2: golf for thirty five years, thirty thirty four years, and
Speaker 2: and the majority of my all my life, I've been
Speaker 2: on meta grass. The grass I probably struggle with the
Speaker 2: most is poema, and it's just on the greens. You know,
Speaker 2: it's weird to me when I start seeing you know,
Speaker 2: footprints and intentions and different you know, the grass grow
Speaker 2: at different heights, so it was whenever I see that
Speaker 2: and two degrees, I just want to hit it harder.
Speaker 2: For some so it rolls smoother and it doesn't bounce
Speaker 2: as much. But I've learned that's not always the case
Speaker 2: on poeana greens sometimes because last thing you want to
Speaker 2: do is have a six footer and try to ram
Speaker 2: it in there and you miss, and you got another
Speaker 2: six footer on you know, bumpy greens, and you're like,
Speaker 2: oh man, I now I'm just gonna lag this one
Speaker 2: up there, so I don't have another six footer. But
Speaker 2: I've learned a little bit. But yeah, I think it
Speaker 2: is an advantage because I think Bermuda grass not that
Speaker 2: it can't be learned, but it does take some time
Speaker 2: to understand all the lies and the way it comes
Speaker 2: out and reading the lies. It does take some time
Speaker 2: to learn that a little bit. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: it can't be done. Obviously guys have done it. Tiger
Speaker 2: have probably done it the best. You're coming from California,
Speaker 2: but it is the one that I think is toughest.
Speaker 2: It takes more time to learn as Bermuda grass.
Speaker 1: We don't see a lot of like majors or big
Speaker 1: events with with Bermuda. I mean, you know, you think
Speaker 1: about the players that overseeds Augusta overseeds, and then the
Speaker 1: seasonality of it. You're not going to a lot of
Speaker 1: places with Bermuda. But one of the things that I've
Speaker 1: kind of like this crystallized for me, and a lot
Speaker 1: of it had to do with Southern Hills hosting the
Speaker 1: PGA a few years ago and then last week at Colonial.
Speaker 1: To me, Bermuda rough seems to be one of the
Speaker 1: things that gives the bottom player the most fits. It's
Speaker 1: really like you you just as you said, it takes
Speaker 1: a long time to learn it, and I think when
Speaker 1: the ball gets in the rough, that that might be
Speaker 1: the most unpredictable situation that you guys are faced with
Speaker 1: on any regularity on the PGA tours. Would you agree
Speaker 1: with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I agree. You know, it's so tough because the
Speaker 2: lies are. You know, you can throw ten balls in
Speaker 2: the rough and it's gonna get ten different lies. If
Speaker 2: you thw ten balls in and rough at you know,
Speaker 2: let's say Valhalla or or Rye Grass or or stuff
Speaker 2: on the West Coast, like you're gonna get a couple
Speaker 2: of different lies, but you're gonna be able to judge
Speaker 2: them a lot easier. The Bermuda grass is really tough
Speaker 2: to judge based off each lie. I listen when and
Speaker 2: when you hit a ball in a rough, it's so
Speaker 2: tough to judge no matter what. But you know, when
Speaker 2: we go to courses that have immuta rough, it is
Speaker 2: crucial to find the fairlies. It really is. I mean
Speaker 2: there's no doubt about it. I mean look at Sedgefield,
Speaker 2: I mean Central Country Club. I mean, yes, you do
Speaker 2: shoot twenty under because it's so short. But if you
Speaker 2: look at one of those things there that's so important
Speaker 2: that week play well is drive accuracy. If you hit
Speaker 2: it in the fairway. You have so many wedges and
Speaker 2: so many short irons. If you hit in the rough,
Speaker 2: you know, majority of times you're probably missing the cut.
Speaker 2: The guys up near the lead are the guys that
Speaker 2: are hitting it in the fairway, have the highest percentage
Speaker 2: of fairways hit that week. It's so tough to judge,
Speaker 2: and that's why Colonial was so such a great challenge
Speaker 2: because of the rough they have. I would love to
Speaker 2: see us play more of Bermuda grass because I think
Speaker 2: it does it does a multitude of things that it
Speaker 2: challenges the modern day golfer ol the rough, but it
Speaker 2: also requires us to be more accurate and hit it
Speaker 2: into the fairway because of the the un you know,
Speaker 2: the nature of the unnature lies of that we get
Speaker 2: and everything. So, you know, I know there was talk
Speaker 2: of possibly maybe making the PGA Championship going down to
Speaker 2: the Concession I think in the early twenty thirty twenty one,
Speaker 2: I mean thirty one thirty somewhere around there. I'm hoping
Speaker 2: that still is you know, Concession Golf Club is still
Speaker 2: a opportunity or still is in the running, because I
Speaker 2: think that's a great course down there in Sarasota. It's
Speaker 2: we played the.
Speaker 1: High high variance there. Yes trouble everywhere.
Speaker 2: It is, and we played the the WC event down there,
Speaker 2: the work there and listen, we we I think Colin
Speaker 2: one at seventeen, you know, I finished second, I think
Speaker 2: with a couple other guys at fifteen or something. But
Speaker 2: it's a challenging course and we didn't have a lot
Speaker 2: of win that week. But there's a place that does
Speaker 2: have a lot of rough and you know the way
Speaker 2: the greens are with bermuda grass, everything, it's a challenge.
Speaker 2: So I do agree. I think what you said. I
Speaker 2: think the courses that really do challenge us. The most
Speaker 2: that I think worry us a little bit is when
Speaker 2: we do have bermuda grass rough off the fairways.
Speaker 1: I feel like one of the things, you know, the
Speaker 1: sedgefield thing. I you know, I never had really thought
Speaker 1: about the bermuda there, but it makes sense, like that's
Speaker 1: an event that I do feel like, you really like
Speaker 1: you get rewarded for great play, like people separate, you know.
Speaker 1: But then everybody would say, hey, it's not really much
Speaker 1: of a test because of the scores correct on tour.
Speaker 1: Do you guys, are there courses that you think are
Speaker 1: very challenging, like in terms of like like stimulating your thought,
Speaker 1: like where your nervous around shots, but scores are super low.
Speaker 1: What are examples of those courses where you know the
Speaker 1: scoring on the week might be really low, but you
Speaker 1: feel like you really have to hit shots to get there?
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think we play a lot of
Speaker 2: courses like that, to tell you true, I think Sexiel
Speaker 2: is one of them. You know, I can think of
Speaker 2: courses that are that give you that feeling, but the
Speaker 2: scores aren't low. You know, we can go to Tory Pines,
Speaker 2: we can go to PGA National, we can go to Bayhill.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's some other courses that I'm forgetting about
Speaker 2: in that in that rotation, but yeah, there's not a
Speaker 2: lot of that where even though it's seventy one hundred
Speaker 2: yards or something, I mean, you still you know, you
Speaker 2: know that if you don't miss, you don't hit the fairway,
Speaker 2: it's still gonna have a challenging shot to try and
Speaker 2: hit the green and put in the right spot, and
Speaker 2: with the undulations and the greens and everything, it's still
Speaker 2: a challenge.
Speaker 4: Billy.
Speaker 3: Something you've talked about before. I know you mentioned this
Speaker 3: on the no Laying up pod maybe a year and
Speaker 3: a half ago. You've been pretty outspoken about the driver
Speaker 3: head and how it's gotten maybe a little bit more
Speaker 3: fargiving over the course of your career. Can you just
Speaker 3: talk from your perspective, does it take less skill to
Speaker 3: hit the driver straight than it did at the beginning
Speaker 3: of your career? Because you talked about some of the
Speaker 3: aggression and the benefits of being aggressive off the tee.
Speaker 3: I think part of the reason we're seeing players get
Speaker 3: more aggressive is the realizing the value of distance, but
Speaker 3: it's also gotten a little bit easier to swing with
Speaker 3: driver and be aggressive. Does it take less skill now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I think it takes at the professional level.
Speaker 2: I think it takes less skill that the ball straight
Speaker 2: then it has any other point in the history of
Speaker 2: the game of golf. Let's say we've all reaped the
Speaker 2: benefits of technology from the recreational golfer to the highest
Speaker 2: of professional golfers. But I still believe that, and I've
Speaker 2: argued this for a decade. You know, when they started
Speaker 2: saying the golf ball goes to for them, like it's
Speaker 2: not really necessarily the golf ball guys, I said let's
Speaker 2: throw and track me and probably a number one reason
Speaker 2: being able off to my stuff. Let's throw in the golfer.
Speaker 2: You know, guys are more athletic now, bigger, stronger, faster.
Speaker 2: Let's throw in the equipment, lighter shafts, bigger clubhead, bigger center,
Speaker 2: sweet spots. Guys have made a career on the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour because of technology that you know, twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: they probably wouldn't have a career in the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: And I believe that if we brought the driver head back.
Speaker 2: And my thing is, I don't want to take distance
Speaker 2: away necessarily, I want to take I want to bring
Speaker 2: back in. When you mishit it off the stay of
Speaker 2: the face, it goes more offline. And when if you
Speaker 2: did that, then I think distance would rain itself back
Speaker 2: in because guys would be, you know what, it'd be
Speaker 2: going at it, you know, out of their shoes and
Speaker 2: swinging as hard as they possibly can on on somewhat
Speaker 2: of a regular basis, because they know now if they
Speaker 2: do miss it, it's not going to go that far
Speaker 2: off line. Like I heard Bryson say something recently recently,
Speaker 2: like you know, when I hit it off the toe
Speaker 2: like I want to go in the fairway, you know,
Speaker 2: I needed to go in the fairway, and so that's
Speaker 2: why the driver he uses and some other stuff he's done,
Speaker 2: and especially these new irons. This is what I heard
Speaker 2: that I didn't play Augusta, so I was listening to
Speaker 2: live from you know, his bulge on his irons, Like
Speaker 2: when he hits it off the toe, like it corrects
Speaker 2: itself and comes back online, it doesn't go as far
Speaker 2: off line. I'm like, that's awesome. That technology is like
Speaker 2: that that we have that a building now. But we're
Speaker 2: professional golfers. We need to get rewarded for hitting the
Speaker 2: center of this face. Like that is what we're supposed
Speaker 2: to do at the highest level of golf. And we've
Speaker 2: taken that away from the professional golfer, and we still
Speaker 2: do amazing things with the golf ball that the recreational
Speaker 2: golfer can't. But man, how more impressive would it be
Speaker 2: if the center of the sweet spot on irons in
Speaker 2: the club had or the driver in the fairway wards
Speaker 2: went back down to what we had maybe twenty years
Speaker 2: ago in the early two thousands, Like that would be
Speaker 2: impressive because guys want to be you know, would want
Speaker 2: to make sure they hit the center of the face
Speaker 2: and that would slow the club had slowed, their clubs
Speaker 2: be down. Like I just saw a clip on social
Speaker 2: media this morning of Bryson playing on YouTube with you
Speaker 2: know an old set of clubs, yeah, Hickory Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you saw how fast he swung. He didn't swing anywhere
Speaker 2: near as fast. I don't know where the shot went,
Speaker 2: but the club had so small I guarantee it he's
Speaker 2: not swinging one hundred and thirty plus miles per hour.
Speaker 2: And if he is, if he misses it, it's gonna
Speaker 2: go offline. Now if he hits it in the center
Speaker 2: of face and it goes three hundred and twenty yards,
Speaker 2: that it's down the middle of fairway, let's stand up
Speaker 2: again around the plaus because that was impressive that.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing that people miss a lot
Speaker 1: with this discussion is the smaller head of One of
Speaker 1: the things that brings into the game which everybody loves
Speaker 1: and is a core essence the game is risk. I think,
Speaker 1: like what happens when you're playing the smaller head And
Speaker 1: this is at least from my personal experience at playing
Speaker 1: per Simon for like a year and a half recently
Speaker 1: is that I went early in the round, you're almost
Speaker 1: feeling out your golf swing how it feels. And if
Speaker 1: you're really cooking, then you start to go at it
Speaker 1: and you start to hit. You know, you're you're you're
Speaker 1: swinging at it. But if it doesn't feel good, like
Speaker 1: you have to stay It's like you have to stay
Speaker 1: in second gear, yeah, and you have to continue to
Speaker 1: feel it out, and because you know, if you go
Speaker 1: at it, there is big misses. Like one of the
Speaker 1: things that I found like the most is like I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe how many pop ups I hit, because like
Speaker 1: it's like the high towball with the four hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty cc that goes just as far with a with
Speaker 1: a per simon or a small head. Is like a
Speaker 1: pop up out to the right that goes like eighty
Speaker 1: yards short of what you know normally hit. And I
Speaker 1: think that's like what you're talking about. I think the ball,
Speaker 1: like the ball being addressed. It seems like in the
Speaker 1: manner it's going to be, is going to be a
Speaker 1: pretty negligible difference by the time we get to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty eight, twenty twenty nine, with the way the game
Speaker 1: continues to grow, like distance continues to grow, it's going
Speaker 1: to be pretty negligible to what it was a year ago.
Speaker 1: But the driver head, that's that's where as you've said
Speaker 1: it would make a fundamental difference on how people play.
Speaker 1: I think the scare of the what they're worried about
Speaker 1: is like the idea of pros playing different equipment than amateurs,
Speaker 1: which it's just not the same game. You guys play
Speaker 1: with grandstands and get TiO left and right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. Listen. I if you go on the
Speaker 2: PGA Tour and you can do it with Thomas Jarvis
Speaker 2: because they have a black face, and you go down there.
Speaker 2: You can look at people's drivers and I see them
Speaker 2: when I play with certain pros and the tea marks
Speaker 2: and they're all over the face of a driver, and
Speaker 2: some are way on the toe and someone way off
Speaker 2: off the heel. I'm like, God, this guy's able to
Speaker 2: hit it right here and still hit in the fairway.
Speaker 2: That just does the blows my mind that they're able
Speaker 2: to be that, you know, miss of a center and
Speaker 2: still get rewarded for. And that's why I said technology
Speaker 2: is way. We've all reaped the benefits, but at the
Speaker 2: highest level. We should we're the most talented, we're the
Speaker 2: most skillful. We should have to be able to, you know,
Speaker 2: test our skill level and either stand listen. I was
Speaker 2: for not changing equipment because you know, amaers want to
Speaker 2: play what we play. But end of the day, like
Speaker 2: I said, this, let's the if you get someone into
Speaker 2: the game of golf, let them have all the big
Speaker 2: stuff and easy stuff to hit. And as they progress
Speaker 2: as a golfer and get better as a golfer, if
Speaker 2: they want a challenger skill level, then let them go
Speaker 2: to a a you know, there's gaming proven irons and
Speaker 2: then there's player iron player you know, skill irons or
Speaker 2: whatever they call them. You know they're gonna change. And
Speaker 2: you know what, let's have another set now where it's
Speaker 2: professional highest level, smaller heads, sweet spots, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: reduced in size, and if they get to the level
Speaker 2: that they want to see how much you know, they
Speaker 2: get to scratch golfer and they want to take the
Speaker 2: equipment that the pros use, Let's let them have that
Speaker 2: opportunity to But it's not gonna change to what the
Speaker 2: amateur golfer does and what they buy. They're gonna buy
Speaker 2: a tailor made driver because Roy mcwory plays the tailor
Speaker 2: made driver, you know, because they hit it. He hits
Speaker 2: a far like they're not whether it's the same ex
Speaker 2: act one or whether it's a different one. They're buying
Speaker 2: Taylor maid because they like Roy McCrory, he's his favorite golfer.
Speaker 2: They're not using his irons because they're not good enough
Speaker 2: to use his irons. They're gonna use a different set
Speaker 2: of Tailor maids. But they're saying, hey, I played Taylor
Speaker 2: Made because Roy mcwory plays tailor made.
Speaker 5: You never hear, you never, ever, very rarely hear an
Speaker 5: amateur golfer say, well, I play the you know, tw
Speaker 5: Taylor made irons or the six twenty NB tireless eye
Speaker 5: irons that Justin Thomas uses. No, I've played Tiler's irons,
Speaker 5: because Justin Thomas plays Tyler's irons, and they probably played
Speaker 5: a te or T two hundred.
Speaker 1: I feel like a few years ago we learned that,
Speaker 1: you know, there were no tailor made drivers that were
Speaker 1: available to the public, that tour players were playing. You know,
Speaker 1: the tour truck. That's some big ball heads.
Speaker 2: And you know what, back in the day, it was
Speaker 2: back in the day, early in my career, there was
Speaker 2: the tour head that you know, there was a tim
Speaker 2: made head and there was a tour head, and now
Speaker 2: that's all gone. All the drivers are saying, listen, the
Speaker 2: shafts we have or you know you're not. You can
Speaker 2: still get our same shafts. She's got to pay a
Speaker 2: lot more money for some of the you know, shafts
Speaker 2: we have in our drivers, but pretty much any equipment
Speaker 2: we use you can get now a day.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Obviously there's a lot of stuff going on
Speaker 1: politically on the PGA tour. You were a former PAC member,
Speaker 1: and where do you sit with you know, the PGA
Speaker 1: tour And I guess some of the some people you
Speaker 1: know as somebody who covers the game. It feels a
Speaker 1: little bit like a soap opera where it's at with
Speaker 1: the negotiations with the with with the Saudi Piff and
Speaker 1: the idea of these two tours live in the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: What would be your ideal resolution from where you guys
Speaker 1: are at today.
Speaker 2: Listen, I see a lot of different roads, and I've
Speaker 2: seen it from the very beginning, and I you can
Speaker 2: go back and I challenge people when they when they
Speaker 2: they challenge me slash attack me on certain things I've said,
Speaker 2: and I've been pretty consistent on it all along, and
Speaker 2: I've said it at twenty two at the Scottish Open.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with two competitive tours. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: it makes both tours have to be better and they
Speaker 2: have to do something to be to be the winner,
Speaker 2: be the leader in that that arena. And I've always
Speaker 2: said I think the PGA Tour will always be the leader,
Speaker 2: will always be the best place to play the game
Speaker 2: of golf. Now, when it comes to the players that left, like,
Speaker 2: as I've said, I don't it didn't bother me. You know,
Speaker 2: they made a financial diss decision that they thought was
Speaker 2: best for the family. And I'm happy now. Do I
Speaker 2: wish some of those guys that leave, Sure, but they
Speaker 2: made a decision and I'm never, you know, uh, sending
Speaker 2: bad about them. I've always sort of called them out
Speaker 2: on some of their comments that they said that we're
Speaker 2: sort of hypocritical and and we're lies. But at this
Speaker 2: point in time, I believe for the best thing for
Speaker 2: the game of golf, for the best thing for fans,
Speaker 2: I think we should do a deal with PIFF, I
Speaker 2: think listen, they're they're involved in a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of sports in the game. Uh, they've been other sports,
Speaker 2: They are involved in businesses. They're going to be around
Speaker 2: this in this world for a long long time because
Speaker 2: they've got hundreds of trillions of dollars and it's not
Speaker 2: going away anytime soon. And if they want to really
Speaker 2: come into the game of golf and and help the
Speaker 2: game of golf grow that, I think we need to
Speaker 2: sit with them and see if we can come to
Speaker 2: a resolution that that works with both sides. I would
Speaker 2: hope that that we do do a deal with a
Speaker 2: game of golf. I mean, with PIFF, that's for the
Speaker 2: game of golf. I believe, you know, whether it lives,
Speaker 2: stays around or not, I don't know. I do believe
Speaker 2: they've shown there is a team aspect that can be successful.
Speaker 2: I think when they you know, when it's more about
Speaker 2: the team and their their tournaments and their championship, I
Speaker 2: think it's their best product. But an individual fifty four
Speaker 2: whole thing just that's not golf. That's I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's not golf, but it's not the future
Speaker 2: of the game of golf, as I've said for so long,
Speaker 2: seventy two holes has always been the the indicator where
Speaker 2: it stays the standard. It will always be the standard.
Speaker 2: And I believe that, you know, and all this stuff
Speaker 2: that's going on, I truly believe the fans are just
Speaker 2: tired of all this bickery. And I'm tired of it all.
Speaker 2: Trust me, I've I've put myself in the middle of
Speaker 2: it a little bit, and I'm still tired of it.
Speaker 2: I want I want a resolution. I think the fans
Speaker 2: are tired of us talking about money. And I've said
Speaker 2: it for many years, you know, to the tour, especially
Speaker 2: around the FedEx Tour Championship. Let's let us stop talking.
Speaker 2: Tell the announcers stop talking about how much of FedEx
Speaker 2: winner it gets, Like no one wants to hear that
Speaker 2: the FedEx wires getting ten, fifteen, eighteen, twenty million dollars,
Speaker 2: like they're making peanuts compared to what we're going to
Speaker 2: win this week. And all they want to see is
Speaker 2: an unbelievable competition between players. They don't care about the
Speaker 2: money aspect of it, and for us to continue to
Speaker 2: bring up the money it just turns viewers off.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, Billy, thinking about the negotiations and what
Speaker 3: a resolution could look like. I'm curious, from your perspective
Speaker 3: and maybe some of the tour guys you've talked to,
Speaker 3: how much of a sticking point is live golfers potentially
Speaker 3: playing in PGA Tour events if they want to, and
Speaker 3: what kind of penalty should be associated with their quote
Speaker 3: unquote defection. Does that actually seem to be a big
Speaker 3: sticking point among players or is that more of a
Speaker 3: media narrative that's that it's a huge sticking point for
Speaker 3: you guys.
Speaker 2: I was said probably a year ago that was maybe
Speaker 2: a little sticking point when it first got announced and everything.
Speaker 2: I think that some players put up a fight and
Speaker 2: some still pointing up a little bit of a fight.
Speaker 2: But I think I think one of this sticking points
Speaker 2: we have now. And like I said, I'm not in
Speaker 2: the inner workings at all on the negotiations, but just
Speaker 2: what I've thought the game of golf where it should
Speaker 2: lead to. You know, five seven years ago, I believe
Speaker 2: the game of golf was going to create a world
Speaker 2: to at some point in time. You know, I've had
Speaker 2: many discussions, like I said, for about five to seven
Speaker 2: years on that. I think that's what maybe one of
Speaker 2: the sticking points are I think, uh, I think some
Speaker 2: of the guys in the negotiations, you know, some players
Speaker 2: on tour, whether they're in the negotiations or not in negotiations,
Speaker 2: maybe don't want to travel. You know, let's just say this,
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour players become less global than than ever
Speaker 2: before since of traveling around the world. And I read
Speaker 2: my college coach telling me buddy Alexander said, if you
Speaker 2: truly want to be a global superstar and be considered
Speaker 2: one of the best in the game, you have to
Speaker 2: travel around the world. You have to play in different countries,
Speaker 2: on different courses and different you know, cultures, and be successful,
Speaker 2: be considered a global star, being considered a global golfer.
Speaker 2: And so I believe that is where the game of
Speaker 2: golf should go. But like I said, I mean, the
Speaker 2: PJ Tour has been so successful and and the domestic
Speaker 2: side and and really successful in the commercial aspect of it.
Speaker 2: On the PJ Tour, that guys don't have to travel
Speaker 2: as they used to, you know, decades ago, And I
Speaker 2: think that's been a little bit of a detriment to
Speaker 2: the PJ Tour. And to the golferself. I mean, I know,
Speaker 2: just a little bit I've traveled over the last you know,
Speaker 2: handful of years. I've enjoyed it. It's something I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to do. I look back and I wish I
Speaker 2: would have done it soon in my career and made
Speaker 2: a better conservative, conservative effort. But you know, being giving that,
Speaker 2: you know, going to those places and giving back to
Speaker 2: the fan and letting them see you, touch you, talk
Speaker 2: to you like that's a big thing. Like how how
Speaker 2: that you know, you know, enhances your brand and then
Speaker 2: enhances the PJ Tour brand when you come back because
Speaker 2: now they're going to follow you even closer. Like that
Speaker 2: goes a long way. So I think, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's the main sticking point, but I think
Speaker 2: it's one of the talking points is that you know,
Speaker 2: some guys on tour don't really want to travel globally,
Speaker 2: and then there's a section of players that don't mind
Speaker 2: traveling globally if a world tour is created.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think for you, something I've really
Speaker 1: appreciated is your embrace of of going in the fall
Speaker 1: and playing a pretty heavy DP world tour schedule and
Speaker 1: I think like in terms of like the pushback would
Speaker 1: be someone exactly in your position, which you've got three kids,
Speaker 1: you know, you live in the US. What have been
Speaker 1: the challenges of that playing that schedule, and also what
Speaker 1: have been the things that you've liked the most.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it a challenge. No, But listen, you
Speaker 2: miss out on family time, you miss out on some
Speaker 2: of your kids' is, you know, activities and everything and
Speaker 2: every but every player is different. So I don't criticize
Speaker 2: them in the sense of their schedule that they make.
Speaker 2: But I I play a game of golf because I
Speaker 2: love it, Like That's what I've always wanted to do, Like,
Speaker 2: and this is my life. It's a part of my
Speaker 2: life as a piece of my life, as my family
Speaker 2: and my wife are another piece of my life. And
Speaker 2: they understand, you know, you know, what I want to do.
Speaker 2: They understand my sacrifice. They make the sacrifice for themselves
Speaker 2: to not see their dad and their husband, but they
Speaker 2: see me living out a dream I've always wanted to do.
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm showing my kids is I'm living
Speaker 2: out a dream I've always wanted to do. So when
Speaker 2: they do grow up, they have that role model that Hey,
Speaker 2: I want to live out my dream. Whatever my dream
Speaker 2: may be, whatever their dream may be. You know, they
Speaker 2: want to do it because of you know, they saw
Speaker 2: their dad being able to do it. So and the
Speaker 2: advantages are just the way that these countries, these cities,
Speaker 2: these tournaments have embraced me. Like it's truly amazing to
Speaker 2: go over to London and see the support I get
Speaker 2: when I go play BMWPJ. Yes I've wont it, but
Speaker 2: even from the first time I went over in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: like I was embraced wholeheartedly. It was great. Like last
Speaker 2: year I played in France at the Golf dashaw where
Speaker 2: the Olympics is gonna be. I'm gonna go back this year,
Speaker 2: Like that was an awesome event. Being staying in Versailles
Speaker 2: and seeing the history and everything else, Like that's so cool,
Speaker 2: Like just getting outside your bubble and going to different
Speaker 2: countries and cultures, like you grow as a person, not
Speaker 2: only as a golfer, but you grow more as a person.
Speaker 2: And that's what I've really enjoyed doing. And my kids
Speaker 2: are going to have that experience, you know, going and
Speaker 2: traveling with me to these countries. You know, in a
Speaker 2: few years and come to these tournaments and seeing these
Speaker 2: other cultures and everything. My little ones out here mimicking
Speaker 2: me a little bit, but it's uh, say hi Kobe.
Speaker 2: So but like I said, I and you don't have
Speaker 2: to go play ten to twelve events like going to
Speaker 2: play four or five like that that does a lot,
Speaker 2: Like it does a lot, Like we need to remember
Speaker 2: we got to give back to the fan and we
Speaker 2: got to get back to the fans and by me
Speaker 2: going over to play these other countries and other tournaments,
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm showing them the things that they've given
Speaker 2: me from across the pond and supported me. And I
Speaker 2: think that goes a long way. Like we have to
Speaker 2: remember like the fans are one of the reasons, the
Speaker 2: sponsors are one of the reasons why we are able
Speaker 2: to play for what we play for today.
Speaker 1: What's uh, what's one place you want to get to
Speaker 1: that you haven't gotten to? Uh in terms of playing
Speaker 1: playing golf.
Speaker 2: I want to go to I want to go to Switzerland.
Speaker 2: I want to go to the Crons Montana up there
Speaker 2: like that. I just heard the course of itself I've
Speaker 2: heard is is okay, it's tight, and it's a little quirky,
Speaker 2: but it looks so beautiful. I want to get down
Speaker 2: to Australia. I've only been there once for the World
Speaker 2: Team Amateur in two thousand and eight. Uh, I want
Speaker 2: to go back. I want to go back down there.
Speaker 2: I want to go down to Melbourne and place some
Speaker 2: of the sand Belt courses and some of those events.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a couple other places over in Europe
Speaker 2: that I probably haven't gotten to that I want to
Speaker 2: go check out. But it's amazing when you go outside
Speaker 2: the country, Like you see how golf hungry these fans are.
Speaker 2: And you know, like I said, we know the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour is the biggest and greatest tour in the world
Speaker 2: and that's where the best players play on a regular basis,
Speaker 2: and fans them all over the world are watching PJ
Speaker 2: Tour events, whether you know it's in the middle of
Speaker 2: the night or the Washington tape, the Labe, they're they're
Speaker 2: watching us play these PJ Tour events. And so by
Speaker 2: going there and seeing them where they live and playing
Speaker 2: these courses, like they were so appreciative of the players
Speaker 2: that do that, and they're so thankful, and like I said,
Speaker 2: they're able to see you they will touch you, you know,
Speaker 2: smell you, you know, talk to you, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: You know, they just have a you. You create that bond,
Speaker 2: You create that sense of closeness even more with the
Speaker 2: fans than before.
Speaker 1: All right, Uh, last question before we get out of here.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that led to your popularity,
Speaker 1: especially in the UK, is your affinity for a fandom
Speaker 1: of the West Ham U Soccer soccer club football club.
Speaker 1: My UK listener is beyond me for saying soccer. I'm curious,
Speaker 1: you know, seemingly you've become this, you've become this big fan.
Speaker 1: How did you go about becoming a fan of UK football,
Speaker 1: world football? And how did you pick your team?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: How how do you go about that? As someone who's
Speaker 1: not really a soccer fan but is interested, how did
Speaker 1: you go about becoming the West Ham fan? And like
Speaker 1: how did you go about your fandom? Because I find
Speaker 1: it a bit aspirational as someone who's I'm the outside
Speaker 1: looking it.
Speaker 2: So Uh, It's probably the one sport growing up that
Speaker 2: my dad didn't allow us to play. He says he
Speaker 2: didn't allow us to play it, but whenever, you know,
Speaker 2: my brother, young brother, and I asked him you know,
Speaker 2: it went in one ear and out the other. He
Speaker 2: acted like you did even hear us. But I became
Speaker 2: I've always been a fan. I always loved playing when
Speaker 2: my buddies in school and everything. I became a fan
Speaker 2: by watching it of west Ham, by watching a movie
Speaker 2: called Green Street or Green Street Hooligans I just called
Speaker 2: here in the States. It's about west Ham and Millwall
Speaker 2: and it has nothing to do about literally the football
Speaker 2: aspect of on the pitch. It's more about the two clubs.
Speaker 2: And there's the supporters of hooligans that they they fight
Speaker 2: before after games, you know, during games, they meet up
Speaker 2: to these these these little fights, and and there was
Speaker 2: you know, they ranked themselves in the sense of who
Speaker 2: had the better you know, you know, supporters and sense
Speaker 2: of fighting. And I just fell in love with the movie.
Speaker 2: I fell in love with watching it, fell in love
Speaker 2: with west Ham, fell in love with their song Forever
Speaker 2: Blowing Bubbles, uh, and so from there, like I always
Speaker 2: was aware of, you know, the club, but it wasn't
Speaker 2: until probably the early twenty eleven twenty twelve when it
Speaker 2: started being shown here in the States the Premier League
Speaker 2: was on NBC that I watched more often and then
Speaker 2: now we'll all the streaming services. I can watch their
Speaker 2: game whenever I want. I can watch any Premier League game,
Speaker 2: and I do watch. I watch probably more English Premier
Speaker 2: League football than any of the sportball. Well listen, there's
Speaker 2: only twelve football games a year or thirteen. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I watch so much football now, it's just
Speaker 2: a sport. I love. I love their support that all
Speaker 2: their supporters of the club give and rivals college. It's
Speaker 2: actually probably better than college football support. And one aspect
Speaker 2: of this is why I say this. I may us
Speaker 2: people aren't going to understand this, but when you go
Speaker 2: to college, like you became a fan of that team,
Speaker 2: probably because you started going to college, you weren't a
Speaker 2: fan of that team more likely and before you went there,
Speaker 2: and so obviously you supported that club for since you
Speaker 2: were in college and since you've been out of college. Well,
Speaker 2: in English football and a lot of these football clubs
Speaker 2: around the world, these fans grew up were born into
Speaker 2: supporting this club because their father, grandfather have been falling.
Speaker 2: So it's in their blood. They live and die by
Speaker 2: this stuff. I mean, they are willing to go to
Speaker 2: battle unlike any other support club that I've ever seen,
Speaker 2: and I said, SEC football is the closest thing that
Speaker 2: rivals it. But like I said, when it's life and
Speaker 2: death to that family, it's amazing to see just how
Speaker 2: much it matters to them. And I can resonate with that.
Speaker 2: I can resonate with that passion, like it's so cool
Speaker 2: and so west Ham has been unbelievable. People knew for
Speaker 2: a few years and I was a west Ham supporter,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't really solidified until I wore I had
Speaker 2: the west Ham bag out at the twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: Open Championship and then it and absolutely blew up, like
Speaker 2: the club. One of the club owners, Trip Smith, and
Speaker 2: then morek Noble. When I told them what I was doing,
Speaker 2: They're like, man, when this gets when people see this,
Speaker 2: like west Ham will take you under their wing. You
Speaker 2: will be one of their own. And I am one
Speaker 2: of their own now, Like it is amazing. Wherever I go,
Speaker 2: I always hear it, come on your Irons or up
Speaker 2: the Hammers when I go to the UK, like I
Speaker 2: am one of their own, like I've been one of
Speaker 2: Like it's like I'm family to them, and that is
Speaker 2: that's the coolest thing. And I'm so appreciative of it.
Speaker 2: So I love it. It's been one of the coolest
Speaker 2: things to be a part of. And yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: I I said, I'm so appreciative of the sport that
Speaker 2: they've given me, not only West Ham fans, but Premier
Speaker 2: League fans, the clubs of other teams, because it's very
Speaker 2: easy for uh, you know, someone like me or anyone
Speaker 2: who has never been you know, has a club to
Speaker 2: you know, jump onto, like a main city or main United,
Speaker 2: Arsenal and Chelsea. But I support a club like west
Speaker 2: Ham that up until last year we hadn't won a
Speaker 2: trophy and I think nearly four years. And and you know,
Speaker 2: we're a blue collar club, we're always we've we've been
Speaker 2: relegated several times and we're not a top club. So
Speaker 2: it's I think they can appreciate that aspect and and
Speaker 2: and that you know that side of what I've done.
Speaker 1: So you know, you took the words out of my mouth.
Speaker 1: Someone that I know really well that works in golf
Speaker 1: on on the other side of the pond said to me,
Speaker 1: he goes. You know, I really respect the team that
Speaker 1: Billy is a fan of. He goes because west Ham
Speaker 1: that's that's real fandom. If you if you become a
Speaker 1: fan of Wesham, you didn't, he didn't just pick the
Speaker 1: easy out. What would be the worst worst team to
Speaker 1: jump on the bandwagon with.
Speaker 2: Well, we hate as west Ham fans, we hate Spurs,
Speaker 2: So Tottenham, Tottenham's right there. You don't wanna, Yeah, you
Speaker 2: jump on a Tottenham bandwagon, you know that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's our our biggest fry one in the Premier League.
Speaker 2: I would say, listen to London Club's Chelsea Like I've
Speaker 2: been to Chelsea game. I went a couple of years
Speaker 2: ago and we went to Stanford Bridge and their supporters
Speaker 2: are very quiet during the game. They're not cheery, they're
Speaker 2: not especially if not playing while they were quiet. And
Speaker 2: then when they do score a goal and they you know,
Speaker 2: they they get into it. But I musten, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: get killed from Chelsea fans by saying this, but it's
Speaker 2: very posh. They're very posh and it's a very posh
Speaker 2: part of London and and and it's nice. That's listen.
Speaker 2: I like going to the Chelsea you know a district
Speaker 2: because it's beautiful and it's great restaurants, and it's really cool.
Speaker 2: But they're very posh uh fans and they live up
Speaker 2: to that tea and so listen, it's very like I said,
Speaker 2: it's easy to choose, you know, some of these clubs
Speaker 2: that are being successful and everything. But I would say,
Speaker 2: if you really want to get into it, like really
Speaker 2: really do your research, really understand the club really, like
Speaker 2: you know, connect with it based off you know, other
Speaker 2: things and just the success to the clubs.
Speaker 1: As a Chicago sports fan, I feel like I'm tormented
Speaker 1: with mediocrity outside of the Bulls run as a childhood,
Speaker 1: a child thing the Bears. You know, it's just been
Speaker 1: been hard. I think being a being a fan of
Speaker 1: a of a of a city that has troubles or
Speaker 1: with their with their success on the field really builds
Speaker 1: character in the long run because you're used to being disappointed.
Speaker 1: That is it's a good thing in life.
Speaker 2: Listen. I mean, you know what it's there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with a little little misery, a little like heartache. Like
Speaker 2: it's really easy support clubs that are always successful. And
Speaker 2: I mean, yes they're they're great and you're always winning,
Speaker 2: but you know, I'm getting the true aspect of like
Speaker 2: struggling to to to win and and and stay you know,
Speaker 2: from stave off relegation or or whatever like. Yes, there
Speaker 2: is a lot of misery there. But when you're successful,
Speaker 2: even if it's for one year, man, there's so much
Speaker 2: joy in that. And that's just stuff that you can
Speaker 2: hold on to for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: You know what that just described?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, yes, exactly right, exactly right. You know what
Speaker 2: it's now that you say that, you know, when you're
Speaker 2: playing pro ams, I love doing prams because you get
Speaker 2: to meet some really cool people and it's just a
Speaker 2: fun day out there. It's even better now that's nine
Speaker 2: and nine that we do the nine and nine out there.
Speaker 1: Those are long rounds. I got my first problem. I
Speaker 1: wasn't ready for six hours course.
Speaker 2: Now people understand why we were at the night and nine.
Speaker 2: But early in my career, and I don't say this
Speaker 2: very often this much anymore, but the pend on you know,
Speaker 2: the pen on the groups and early in the holes.
Speaker 2: But a lot of times on the first team I
Speaker 2: would say listen, especially like course like bay Hill and
Speaker 2: Memorial Urfield. I mean I would say listen, I want
Speaker 2: you guys to have fun today. Let's not worry about
Speaker 2: what scoring you guys shot like, if you're not making
Speaker 2: a net power like, go ahead and pick it up.
Speaker 2: Let's move on, you know. And I'm like, and I
Speaker 2: say this, and I'm like, I say this in nice way.
Speaker 2: This course far exceed your guys this talent level, and
Speaker 2: this course is to challenge somewhat of my talent level.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that,
Speaker 2: but listen, you guys aren't used to playing rough. That's
Speaker 2: three inches four inches long, firm faskings like this is
Speaker 2: far exceeds what you guys are used to. But my
Speaker 2: goal today is to make sure you have a great
Speaker 2: hole or hit one unbelievable shot that you go back
Speaker 2: and tell your golf buddies for the next seven months.
Speaker 2: And I hit a five iron from two hundred yards,
Speaker 2: you know, with water on the left. I hit the
Speaker 2: fifteen feet in May burry, Like, that's what that's my goal.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure you have one of those
Speaker 2: moments that you can go back and tell your golf
Speaker 2: buddies for months that you hit this great shot on
Speaker 2: this whole.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know that the PGA Tour plays.
Speaker 1: On Yeah, And I think that's the beauty of the
Speaker 1: game of golf. Maybe why it's so aspirational in ways
Speaker 1: and intoxicating is is somebody on a part of three
Speaker 1: might hit a better you know, it is likely over
Speaker 1: the course of the day, you know, one player is
Speaker 1: likely to hit a better shot than you are. You know,
Speaker 1: a player that's you know, won the FedEx Cup and
Speaker 1: they are going to be able to go home and
Speaker 1: say to their friends, you know, I hit a closer
Speaker 1: than Billy Horshall on the fourth hole and that, Like,
Speaker 1: nobody could ever say that about basketball, right, I'm not
Speaker 1: if I played one on one with you know, any
Speaker 1: player in the NBA, I would not score a point.
Speaker 2: Correct, I'm not going to part you to trust me.
Speaker 2: So I mean, it's just that's why the game of
Speaker 2: golf is so cool and like I get like in
Speaker 2: those proms when they do something special, like I'm more
Speaker 2: excited than you know. I wouldn't say winning a golf tournament,
Speaker 2: but it comes very close to that because it's so
Speaker 2: cool to see the enjoyment they were having on the
Speaker 2: golf course, like hitting that shot, having that moment like
Speaker 2: that may be one of their greatest moments top five
Speaker 2: moments in their golf career, Like that's so cool to see,
Speaker 2: Like I enjoy, you know, trying to accomplish that for them.
Speaker 1: Billy, thanks so much for coming on and chatting with us,
Speaker 1: and we wish you the best of luck the rest
Speaker 1: of the year. Excited to see you back at Pine.
Speaker 1: I think that's a course that sets up really well
Speaker 1: for your game and we'll see you out there. But
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on and thanks and chatting with us.
Speaker 4: All right, Joseph, what was.
Speaker 1: Your favorite favorite part of the Billy interview?
Speaker 4: Just in general?
Speaker 3: I've always appreciated how open Billy is, and like the
Speaker 3: press conference after a Memorial last year, he shot like
Speaker 3: eighty three or eighty four in his opening round and
Speaker 3: was willing to talk about it. Ended up being choked
Speaker 3: up like that to me is a good indication of
Speaker 3: who Billy Horsell is. He's willing to say what's on
Speaker 3: his mind, so I really enjoyed. I think him talking
Speaker 3: about being a global player was probably the part that
Speaker 3: resonated most with me, and his willingness to travel around
Speaker 3: the world and talk about the benefits of that versus
Speaker 3: it being a burden, Like I think he sees the
Speaker 3: bigger picture there a little bit in a way that
Speaker 3: some other PGA Tour players need to get on board with.
Speaker 3: That might have been my favorite part. I don't know
Speaker 3: what was your favorite party, Andy, I thought the whole
Speaker 3: I thought he was great the whole time.
Speaker 1: I think the one thing you hit on, I think, like,
Speaker 1: I think golfers become infinitely more interesting when they go
Speaker 1: through big time struggles. I think that's like, it's just
Speaker 1: a very humanizing and relatable thing. And I think like
Speaker 1: the way Billy Horsechell handled that hole all of last
Speaker 1: year was like I think it won him a ton
Speaker 1: of fans, and because he was willing to talk about it,
Speaker 1: very open about it, and you could tell from the
Speaker 1: way how open he was, how much of a toll
Speaker 1: it was taking on his like on him, I think so,
Speaker 1: I think you know that that him. It's been one
Speaker 1: of the fun things to watch this year, him getting
Speaker 1: his game back, winning obviously and returning as a top
Speaker 1: fifty player in the world. Like, that's been really enjoyable
Speaker 1: to watch. So big thanks to Billy for coming on.
Speaker 1: What's your recommendation?
Speaker 4: Let's go off the.
Speaker 3: Wall here, Andy, do you have any ide idea what
Speaker 3: the docuseries Ren Fair.
Speaker 1: Is no, No, I don't.
Speaker 3: This is I like weird documentaries with eccentric personalities. To
Speaker 3: put it mildly, So, there's a new docuseries on HBO
Speaker 3: Max that just came out last night. It's three episodes
Speaker 3: and the first episode came out last night. It's about
Speaker 3: the biggest renaissance fair in maybe the world, or at
Speaker 3: least America. It's a little bit outside of Houston, maybe
Speaker 3: like thirty minutes outside of Houston, and the owner is
Speaker 3: like eighty six. He's this really weird guy that is
Speaker 3: planning his death, wants to die at ninety five. And
Speaker 3: you see his full time employees. It's a huge scale operation.
Speaker 3: He has a ton of full time employees. They're kind
Speaker 3: of angling to take over the business once this guy retires.
Speaker 3: It was described to me as a mixture between like
Speaker 3: Tiger King and Succession, where you just have again a
Speaker 3: group of kind of odd people that are running this
Speaker 3: big business and angling like they don't talk about owning
Speaker 3: the business, talk about being king of the empire, like
Speaker 3: a lot of weird personalities. Watched the first episode very amusing.
Speaker 1: All right, I'll have to check it out. It's we
Speaker 1: always look always looking for stuff Weird's good. Weird just good.
Speaker 1: That's different. Hey, my recommendation is self serving. We just
Speaker 1: threw up a tonight. We're throwing up Monday night our
Speaker 1: Pinehurst video. I think it's you know, we've been doing
Speaker 1: these course profiles, our course profile videos for the US
Speaker 1: Open since probably wing Foot was our first big one,
Speaker 1: and I think they've gotten better and better every year.
Speaker 1: This year's I'm I think it's probably the best one
Speaker 1: we've done. I think last year's lacc one was pretty
Speaker 1: great too, But this one we had billcore And and
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvie on to talk. So Jeff, you know, from
Speaker 1: a player that's played in US Opens at Pinehurst number two,
Speaker 1: and then Bill Corr, who obviously did the big restoration
Speaker 1: of Pinehurst number two in the I think two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine twenty ten. So this was this was a
Speaker 1: big production and we're very proud of it and it's
Speaker 1: going to be It's up on YouTube. Go check it out.
Speaker 1: It's about twenty minutes. Put it on your big screen.
Speaker 1: You know, got get that YouTube app fired up on
Speaker 1: your on your TV. Put it on the big screen,
Speaker 1: kick back and enjoy. I Uh, it's some beautiful footage.
Speaker 1: And and unbelievable interviews with h with Core and Ogilvy.
Speaker 1: So I would check that out and thank you guys
Speaker 1: for listening and all the support. And if you like
Speaker 1: that Pinehurst video, subscribe to our YouTube feed. We uh
Speaker 1: we throw stuff up there. We hopefully throw more stuff
Speaker 1: up there in the near future. But big thanks to
Speaker 1: Matt Ruschis for editing and producing this podcast. We'll be
Speaker 1: back later this week with another episode. It should be
Speaker 1: Pinehurst centric, so it should be getting you ray for
Speaker 1: that US Open, and then next week we're at the
Speaker 1: US Open. You'll be at the US Open. You got it.
Speaker 1: What are you most excited for for covering your first
Speaker 1: major in person?
Speaker 3: I'm pretty familiar with Pinehurst, and I like being at
Speaker 3: a golf course that I have some context for, So
Speaker 3: I think I'm just excited to see the way golfers
Speaker 3: play shots that are completely different than what we see
Speaker 3: year in and year out and watching it up close,
Speaker 3: like the tight lies, the a lot of shots off
Speaker 3: of sandy soil, Like, I'm just excited to see some
Speaker 3: of the golfers that thrive in those conditions. So I'm
Speaker 3: pretty excited to see some of the golfers that eject.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be quite different than what we see weekend
Speaker 3: and week out, so if people don't remember the twenty
Speaker 3: fourteen US Open at Pinehurst, it's a completely different esthetic
Speaker 3: and style of play than what you'd see like at
Speaker 3: the Canadian Open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be super fun. All right, we'll be back,
Speaker 1: thanks Joseph, and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 4: Thanks,