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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants hut.

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Speaker 2: Let's go.

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Speaker 1: Let's Giants like it. Out of the Giants bubbling, give

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Speaker 1: me some job. Part of the Giants podcast network. Let's roll.

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Speaker 3: It's always great to bring back Pepper Johnson here the

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Speaker 3: Giants training camp.

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Speaker 1: One of the great Giants linebacking legends. Pepper.

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Speaker 3: It's great to see and people right now are so

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Speaker 3: excited about this linebacking corps between Thibodeau and Burns and

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Speaker 3: now abdual Carter.

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Speaker 1: When you see that trio, what's the kind of things

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Speaker 1: that come to your mind.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited. I'm excited a lot of big plays, a

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Speaker 2: lot of forcing big plays for other people to make plays.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm expecting. Try to put those guys in

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Speaker 2: some positions that they can make plays and enforced teams

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Speaker 2: to do things that they don't want to do.

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Speaker 3: You were a number two draft pick when you got

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Speaker 3: to the Giants. Abdul Carter is a number one draft pick.

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Speaker 3: A little more pressure when your first round pick. What

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Speaker 3: kind of advice.

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Speaker 1: Would you give to him during his rookie season?

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Speaker 2: First and foremost pressure, No, no pressure at all, but

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Speaker 2: just come in and playball. I mean do it you

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Speaker 2: do best. So you know, it's it's not the people

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Speaker 2: in the stands, it's that guy that's in front of

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Speaker 2: you that that he needs to concentrate and need the

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Speaker 2: wook button, you know, and uh, if he do that

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Speaker 2: very well, be successful, be a charm in the locker room.

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Speaker 2: That that a lot of uh, since the cohesive this

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Speaker 2: of guys is working together. That was one thing that

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Speaker 2: about us. A lot of people say a lot of

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Speaker 2: good things about us, but they don't know how well

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Speaker 2: we were on and off the field and and good

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Speaker 2: teammates and that's that's. Uh, that's what make things work.

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Speaker 2: When when a guy like Taylor, like Banks that can

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Speaker 2: look at you on the field and like give you

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Speaker 2: that look at you, Hey man, you got to take

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Speaker 2: my back on this because I'm getting ready to do

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Speaker 2: something crazy. Uh, that's it's all right. And so then

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Speaker 2: you can look back at him. You know, I always

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Speaker 2: happy when I got to that point that I had

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Speaker 2: to really work to get to that point. But I

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Speaker 2: can look back at him and you know, something might

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Speaker 2: come up a little different than what we plan, but

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Speaker 2: you make that play a lot of confidence in each

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Speaker 2: other and then you start working very well. Like you know,

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Speaker 2: hand and fort.

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Speaker 3: You had versatility in your game, and so does Carter

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Speaker 3: played Off Paul linebacker before he became an edge rusher,

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Speaker 3: played some stuff in the middle. What would be the

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Speaker 3: toughest thing for him to learn, the toughest adjustment.

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Speaker 2: If they ask him to cover man the man. A

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Speaker 2: lot of people it's not h you can, you can

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Speaker 2: run fast, but covering man the man is a whole

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Speaker 2: different beast. And that was one of the things that

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Speaker 2: another thing that a lot of people don't didn't give

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Speaker 2: us credit for. When we would have those uh you know,

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Speaker 2: training camp practices against other teams and we would do

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Speaker 2: one on one against the running backs, it was it

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Speaker 2: was classical that we were. We were just kick they butt,

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Speaker 2: you know that they wouldn't catch any freaking passes. And

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Speaker 2: that was that was a good thing. And a lot

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Speaker 2: of people, you know, matter of fact, when they look

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Speaker 2: at me now, they say, you never covered man man.

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Speaker 2: You was a run stopper. I was the man cover backers.

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Speaker 2: I saw, yeah, exactly, So please tell everybody, But uh,

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Speaker 2: that would I would think would be the toughest thing

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Speaker 2: for him. It's covering the man the man and just

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Speaker 2: being patient with it and and read his keys and

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Speaker 2: all that stuff like that and whatever the coaches are

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Speaker 2: telling the technics that they're showing them to have, uh,

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Speaker 2: make it work.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of people going into the draft

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Speaker 3: who said, well, but they already have two red rushers.

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Speaker 3: Why do you want to draft Abdul Carter another edge rusher.

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Speaker 3: You're not gonna be able to get him on the field.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, you, as a coach and as

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Speaker 3: a coordinator, you know that's not true. It's very simple

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Speaker 3: to get him on the field exactly.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and who labeled him, you know, just like

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Speaker 2: how we started this conversation. He have he's very versatile,

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Speaker 2: so he can play a lot of different places in Thibodeau. Also,

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Speaker 2: you know, uh, he is a uh he can make

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Speaker 2: a lot of inside linemen office of linemen wonder why

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Speaker 2: in the world is he lined up in here and

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Speaker 2: and start worrying about things that normally they don't worry

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Speaker 2: about when when the big guy is down there. So

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Speaker 2: you know, make some things happen, you know, so just

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Speaker 2: make some things happen. They're big boys, they're strong. Last

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Speaker 2: I check some of the biceps on these guys. So

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Speaker 2: he can stand up there and hold up against the

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Speaker 2: against the run, and it's for the guys behind him,

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Speaker 2: you know, also can can make some play. So I

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Speaker 2: think it's the versatility and and right now, no one

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Speaker 2: knows what they're gonna do, if they're gonna move him around,

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Speaker 2: if they're gonna line him up in the inside, or

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Speaker 2: like I said Thibodeau, it's uh, it's a question mark.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully we do a lot of.

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Speaker 3: That pepper a lot of things that people don't realize.

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Speaker 3: It's not just about what the linebackers do. It's about

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Speaker 3: what the guys in front of you do. They've got

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Speaker 3: to keep the linebackers clean. This defensive line has had

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Speaker 3: a lot of talent during this offseason. I think that's

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Speaker 3: gonna help out a lot.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, you know guys. Uh again, it's it's uh,

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Speaker 2: it's the camaraderie. It's the locker room. How well you

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Speaker 2: get along in the classroom, in the locker room, off

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Speaker 2: the field, in the dining room area, which is tremendous

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Speaker 2: an I'm not used to this. Uh, But and then

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Speaker 2: you go out on the field and it's and it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's second nature. You know, it's second nature. I

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Speaker 2: want to work well with this guy because we have

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Speaker 2: such a good bond. We you know, we're brothers, so

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Speaker 2: we uh we can go out here on the field

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Speaker 2: and work with each other and and know what the

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Speaker 2: other guy is thinking and what he's going to do.

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Speaker 2: So when you start getting that feeling. And plus, the

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Speaker 2: linemen don't always just uh keep the guys off of us.

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Speaker 2: Remember that name linebacker. We back up the line. So

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Speaker 2: whatever they do wrong or right, it's our responsibility to

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Speaker 2: make them right. So we have to be a little

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Speaker 2: patient and know when we can shoot gaps and when

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Speaker 2: we can go over the top, and when we need

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Speaker 2: to run straight ahead and stuff somebody so that they

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Speaker 2: can bounce to one of our defense alignments. So those

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Speaker 2: guys appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: Also, it's early yet, we don't know what the shiiling

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Speaker 3: is for this defense, but we think with the talent

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Speaker 3: that they have, they could be dynamic. As a former

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Speaker 3: All Pro and great Giants defender.

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Speaker 1: How much pride does that give you? How does that

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Speaker 1: make you smile?

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Speaker 3: When you realize the Giants are getting back to maybe

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Speaker 3: something having a dominant defense again, I.

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Speaker 2: Start smelling championships because hey, I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna

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Speaker 2: stand by my word and defense win championships. And if

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Speaker 2: you have a very strong defense, it doesn't matter. The

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Speaker 2: offense are the little brothers. It's like anybody that have

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Speaker 2: well I am the little brother, believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: But anyone that have brothers, the offense is a little brother.

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Speaker 2: So uh, defensively, you you have to go out there

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Speaker 2: and you have to do whatever possible to protect your

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Speaker 2: your younger brother. So that's what that's what we do.

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Speaker 2: That's what defensive guys, that's what we do. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter they get a turnover. We're out there on the field,

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Speaker 2: you know, just salivating because we couldn't wait to get

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Speaker 2: out there. They just let us get out there a

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Speaker 2: little earlier and were getting ready to do something. Demolish

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Speaker 2: your your offense, you know, you should have never took

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Speaker 2: the ball away from our offense. And if you have

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Speaker 2: that mentality going forward, it's the offense will pick up.

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Speaker 2: They would appreciate it, and they will make some things happen.

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Speaker 2: They will change the field position and all that good

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Speaker 2: stuff like that, and and and then you start working together.

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Speaker 2: It's like a machine.

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Speaker 1: Pepper Johnson's so good to see you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm glad to glad you bring me out

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Speaker 2: here and we can do these interviews, so I love it.

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Speaker 3: The Huddle is brought to you by Citizens, the official

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Speaker 3: bank of the New York Giants. From game day celebrations

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Speaker 3: to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can get

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Speaker 3: the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn more

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Speaker 3: at Citizens bank dot com slash.

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Speaker 1: Giants Huddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go over the middle with at the score great?

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Speaker 2: How do we make that happen? I don't know, Bud.

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Speaker 4: Citizens does make sense of your money with Citizens, Official

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Speaker 4: Bank of Eli Manning.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to another edition of the Huddle On'm Pauldatino with

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Speaker 3: Giants Legend Charles Way. We are brought to you by Citizens. Charles,

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Speaker 3: you played fullback for this team, and in recent years

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Speaker 3: teams seem to have rediscovered the value of the running

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Speaker 3: game and of the fullback. Some more and more teams

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Speaker 3: are adding them. Why do you suppose there's been such

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Speaker 3: a shift over the last decade in terms of the

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Speaker 3: value of the position.

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Speaker 4: I think when you look at how defensive defenses have

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Speaker 4: changed and how the personnel on the defensive side have changed.

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Speaker 4: It actually lends itself to having a great running game

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Speaker 4: because the linebackers are so much smaller than when I played.

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Speaker 4: You don't have two hundred and sixty seventy five pound

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Speaker 4: linebackers just trying to take you on on an isold drill.

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Speaker 4: So when you look at the defenses, how much smaller

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Speaker 4: they are that you've got safeties playing linebacker. It lends

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Speaker 4: itself to if you get good stout, big offensive linemen

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Speaker 4: and have a decent fullback, you can do some damage

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Speaker 4: in the run game.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this Giants run game.

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Speaker 3: Tyrone Tracy, the rookie who came out of Purdue originally

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Speaker 3: had been a wide receiver in college, converted himself to

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Speaker 3: a running back.

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Speaker 2: You got a chance to.

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Speaker 3: Watch last year, ran for about nine hundred yards. Your

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Speaker 3: thoughts about his development and maybe the step he can

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Speaker 3: take as he becomes more acclimated to the position.

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Speaker 4: I think the main thing that he should be working

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Speaker 4: on right now is just ball security. I think the

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Speaker 4: one thing that hampered him last year was the fumbles,

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Speaker 4: and if you eliminate the fumbles, he had a great

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Speaker 4: season for his rookie season, And when.

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Speaker 2: You look at just a depth behind him.

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Speaker 4: I love Scataboo.

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Speaker 2: I love what he brings.

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Speaker 4: He reminds me of a mod Bradshaw, and he brings

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Speaker 4: that toughness and grit, that kind of bulldog mentality that

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Speaker 4: we loved when the model was here and he had

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Speaker 4: all those great years.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm interested that you just mentioned Skataboo because we

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Speaker 3: saw that Arizona State, the kind of energy he brings

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Speaker 3: to a team, with the physicality, but also very good

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Speaker 3: guy to the backfield catching the ball, and you know

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Speaker 3: that can be an important part of a fullbacks.

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Speaker 4: Job, absolutely, especially in today's game. If you're not a

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Speaker 4: running back that can go out and catch passes and

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Speaker 4: be a relevant piece to the offensive puzzle in the

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Speaker 4: passing game, I don't think you have a place in

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Speaker 4: today's game because with that dual threat, you just can't

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Speaker 4: load up and stack eight guys in the box. Like

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Speaker 4: when you look at Skataboo, big guy, you don't think

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Speaker 4: he can go out and be a threat in the

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Speaker 4: passing game, but he can, and I think that adds

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Speaker 4: to his value and the potential of this potential dynamic offense.

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Speaker 3: Now, the offensive line also is where it all starts.

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Speaker 3: We all know that we don't know exactly who the

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Speaker 3: starting five are gonna be right now, but safe to

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Speaker 3: say that the offensive line and the running backs have

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Speaker 3: to form a chemistry with each other, don't they, And

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Speaker 3: it's got to happen pretty quick, I think.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's easier from a run game standpoint.

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Speaker 4: It's harder from a pass game standpoint, just because of

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Speaker 4: all the schemes that the defensive defenses have.

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Speaker 2: So it's a lot.

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Speaker 4: Easier when you have some cohesiveness with a run game

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Speaker 4: because you know how to pass things off as an

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Speaker 4: offensive lineman, and the type of offense they're running, they're

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Speaker 4: not using a fullback that much, so you don't have

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Speaker 4: a fullback having to adjust from an offense and fullback position.

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Speaker 4: Where I would tell the guys when I was playing fullback,

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Speaker 4: is you just get a man and I will just

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Speaker 4: off of you because I knew the scheme. And so

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Speaker 4: I think that's the difference in today's game, is that

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Speaker 4: you don't have that guy behind making the adjustments. And

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Speaker 4: I think when talking to coach Gilbride, we were having

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Speaker 4: a conversation about bringing a fullback back and he thinks

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Speaker 4: that having that more athletic type, not having a tight

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Speaker 4: end back there, but having a true full back back

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Speaker 4: there and enables an offense to do a lot more

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Speaker 4: because they did go out in the passing game. He

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Speaker 4: did have certain pass routes for them and so and

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Speaker 4: they helped in the past protection as well.

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Speaker 3: How much do you think it helps young backs like

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Speaker 3: Scataboo and Trace. He'd have a veteran such as Russell

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Speaker 3: Wilson back there calling the signals. He has seen everything

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Speaker 3: that this league has to offer.

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Speaker 4: I think it's an amazing opportunity for them to have

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Speaker 4: a veteran like Russell guide them and kind of give

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Speaker 4: them like a blueprint of what it takes to win

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Speaker 4: a Super Bowl. He's done it, He's had success in

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Speaker 4: this league, and I think looking at him and practice

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Speaker 4: and practices in mini camps, I think he looks a

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Speaker 4: lot healthier and you kind of get a similars of

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Speaker 4: that youthfulness. I think what the Jets wanted from Aaron

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Speaker 4: Rodgers last year that they didn't get, I think Russell

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Speaker 4: can bring that to this team and hopefully deliver all.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Final question, and this is a little tricky. You were

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Speaker 3: on a team that did struggle for a bit, but

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Speaker 3: that in ninety seven won the NFC East title. You

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Speaker 3: were a huge part of that. What's the biggest thing

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Speaker 3: besides obviously a talent increase that a team can do

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Speaker 3: to turn their fortunes around quickly.

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Speaker 4: I think it's twofold. It's a having the buy in

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Speaker 4: from the players with the coaching staff, and having the

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Speaker 4: coaching staff just put the players in the right position.

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Speaker 4: Obviously we're a very young team and making sure that

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Speaker 4: they pay attention to detail. And it's going to take

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Speaker 4: the veteran leadership like Russell Wilson. You got Dex Lawrence.

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Speaker 4: He's going to take those guys keeping everyone together and

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Speaker 4: keeping everybody on the same page.

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Speaker 1: Joe's Wade, It's always good to see.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for coming back.

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Speaker 4: Is great being here.