Speaker 1: Hey, do you own a gas station in the state
Speaker 1: of New York. If so, you might be a little
Speaker 1: nervous right now. That's because you're a new governor just
Speaker 1: signed a law that will ban the sale of all
Speaker 1: gas powered cars. On today's podcast, we talk about why
Speaker 1: she did this and what this will mean for the
Speaker 1: Empire State and for the rest of us. Hello, and
Speaker 1: welcome back once again to Parts per Billion, the environmental
Speaker 1: podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host, David Schultz. So,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned at the top, the Governor of New York,
Speaker 1: Kathy Hokel, just signed a bill into law that permits
Speaker 1: only the sale of zero emission vehicles in her state.
Speaker 1: Of course, I left out a crucial detail here that
Speaker 1: this measure doesn't take effect until twenty thirty five. Still,
Speaker 1: this is a big deal. New York is a really
Speaker 1: huge state and it joins another really really huge state, California,
Speaker 1: in taking this zero emission step. To find out more
Speaker 1: about what this all means and how this bill passed
Speaker 1: the legislature and wound up on Hocal's desk, her brand
Speaker 1: new desk, i should say, I turned to Bloomberg Law's
Speaker 1: Albany reporter Keisha Kluki. I wanted to get into the
Speaker 1: timing of all of this, but with Hocal signing this
Speaker 1: bill shortly after taking office and shortly after her states
Speaker 1: suffered damage from Hurricane Ida. But first I asked Keisha
Speaker 1: what the zero emission bill actually does. So the bill
Speaker 1: looks to lower carbon emissions in the state and combat
Speaker 1: climate change. The transportation portion of the state's greenhouse gas
Speaker 1: emissions is roughly the estimate is about twenty percent comes
Speaker 1: from the transportation sector alone. So last week, the governor
Speaker 1: signed into law a bill that would ban the use
Speaker 1: of gas powered or fossil field powered vehicles starting in
Speaker 1: twenty thirty five, which kind of aligns with California and
Speaker 1: so basically the sale and lease of new passenger cars
Speaker 1: and trucks would not be allowed. And then further it
Speaker 1: looks at medium duty and heavy duty vehicles for twenty
Speaker 1: forty five is the deadline for those, so you could
Speaker 1: still keep your gas powered car, but you would not
Speaker 1: be able to buy a new one. Theoretically, the state
Speaker 1: is aiming to get more electric vehicle sales up, combat
Speaker 1: climate change and reduced greenhouse gas emissions. So this is
Speaker 1: a big deal. To put it mildly. Tell me about
Speaker 1: the legislative journey here. I have to imagine that, you know,
Speaker 1: this bill had a lot of twists and turns as
Speaker 1: it went through the state House in Albany. Yes, so
Speaker 1: this actually was originally passed in April of this year,
Speaker 1: so we've been waiting a little bit for the governor
Speaker 1: to sign it. Of course, there was some scandals and
Speaker 1: other things. We have a new governor now, so there
Speaker 1: was a lot and they, you know, finally signed the
Speaker 1: bill into into place, and the state actually in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen passed ledgegislation that aims to lower carbon emissions and
Speaker 1: combat climate change. And so I think that the lawmakers
Speaker 1: were looking for something that would sort of take the
Speaker 1: transportation sector alone into mind, so it will sort of
Speaker 1: work in conjunction with the state's climate law. There were
Speaker 1: plans to have regulations, but the lawmakers I actually was
Speaker 1: speaking to one of them yesterday and they said, you know,
Speaker 1: we really wanted to codify this in a law that way.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a goal. It was actually going to
Speaker 1: get done. And it's also sort of done to spark,
Speaker 1: hopefully spark this in other states, so that you know,
Speaker 1: we're seeing nationally and reduction in greenhouse gases and combating
Speaker 1: climate changes in lieu of federal regulations. So I have
Speaker 1: to ask you, you know, the bill passed the legislature
Speaker 1: in April, sat on the Governor's desk, and now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden it gets signed. This timing maybe it's incidental,
Speaker 1: but it feels like it can't be coincidental. As you
Speaker 1: mentioned New York as a new governor. Did that play
Speaker 1: into this at all? It makes me think that maybe
Speaker 1: former Governor Cuomo was opposing this bill and that the
Speaker 1: current Governor, Kathy Hochel is in favor. Is that the case,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Of course, we'll never fully know
Speaker 1: what was going on behind the scenes with the Cuomo
Speaker 1: administration in the last few months, in particular of his administration,
Speaker 1: but we do know one of the reasons why Hochel
Speaker 1: made this one of her first priorities. I mean, she
Speaker 1: was sign She came into office at the end of August,
Speaker 1: so she's maybe week three at this point. But we
Speaker 1: had that big hurricane and storm, and it caused a
Speaker 1: lot of damage in New York City, and of course
Speaker 1: these storms are becoming more frequent due to climate change.
Speaker 1: And so I think this was one of her first
Speaker 1: acts as governor where she could sort of do a
Speaker 1: cause and effect. We had these stor ms, we need
Speaker 1: to act. I can sign this legislation. And I also
Speaker 1: think it's interesting as we look to you know, Kathy
Speaker 1: Hokel has already said she plans to run again in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two for governor, and she needs to make
Speaker 1: a lot of big steps. So I think her taking
Speaker 1: this was also sort of a political move and could
Speaker 1: bring a lot of sort of the left leaning Democrats
Speaker 1: over to her side and make a name for herself
Speaker 1: nationally by signing this right away as a priority. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. I hadn't thought about that that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's from upstate New York. I think she's seen as
Speaker 1: more of a moderate, so this could sort of show
Speaker 1: up her left flank. Let's talk about the right flank. Though.
Speaker 1: I have to imagine that Republicans in Albany probably weren't
Speaker 1: too keen on this. You know. Maybe also the automotive
Speaker 1: industry wasn't too thrilled about this, or maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Who are the opponents of this? Who were the people
Speaker 1: who didn't want to see this get passed. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: actually surprisingly it went through pretty small. I think there
Speaker 1: were concerns about vehicle sales and the business sector of that,
Speaker 1: but a lot of car manufacturers, including you know, very
Speaker 1: big names GM, Volkswagen, they've all already sort of committed
Speaker 1: to increasing their electric vehicle selection, and the more electric
Speaker 1: vehicles that we have on the market, the less expensive
Speaker 1: and more affordable they are, so I think that they
Speaker 1: were already kind of moving that way. We saw California
Speaker 1: already has this band in place also for twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1: There's some some federal discussion on regulations of that, but
Speaker 1: I think the car manufacturers are sort of reading the
Speaker 1: tea leaves that if California does it, other states are
Speaker 1: not far behind. And New York State is a pretty
Speaker 1: large portion of the market. So even though technically you
Speaker 1: could drive to Pennsylvania in twenty thirty five and purchase
Speaker 1: a car, it's not going to be the line share
Speaker 1: of sales. I mean, I know, I personally am not
Speaker 1: planning on driving multiple hours to find a car that
Speaker 1: theoretically there's gonna be rebates, there's gonna be electric vehicle
Speaker 1: stations everywhere, so definitely the state has a lot to
Speaker 1: do to actually put this in place, but I think
Speaker 1: that the industry is already headed in that direction. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about California, because, as you mentioned, they are
Speaker 1: they're we're the first out of the gate. New York
Speaker 1: is seems like number two is the bill that Governor
Speaker 1: Hoke Will just signed. Is that identical to what California
Speaker 1: has in place or are there some some differences. It's
Speaker 1: pretty close. I'm not as familiar with California's law, but
Speaker 1: I do know that the New York state law makers
Speaker 1: mirrored it after California's law, and they did that on purpose.
Speaker 1: And I think New York really wants to be, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the main actors nationally for this. We have,
Speaker 1: like I said, we have that climate goal. We're also
Speaker 1: part of the regional greenhouse gas emissions partnership between states.
Speaker 1: So I think New York is looking to be a leader.
Speaker 1: I think they would have gone quicker if it seemed feasible.
Speaker 1: And I think there are some you know, green groups
Speaker 1: that have said we'd we'd like to see this done
Speaker 1: more quickly. But I think it's it's easier definitely to
Speaker 1: model after another state and sort of take those considerations.
Speaker 1: You know, how did they ramp up electric vehicle stations,
Speaker 1: how did they make this accessible for uh, you know,
Speaker 1: low income you know, people with low income housing may
Speaker 1: not have access to stations. And then also it's part
Speaker 1: of sort of this larger goal of like, it's not
Speaker 1: just about electric vehicles, it's also about partnering with the
Speaker 1: infrastructure of our transportation system. So you may not be
Speaker 1: able to have an electric vehicle, but you can have
Speaker 1: you know, the train or other sort of cleaner modes
Speaker 1: of travel. So it's going to be sort of a
Speaker 1: wide look at it, and I think using the model
Speaker 1: of California really helps the state jump start into that
Speaker 1: and learn lessons learned kind of thing. The other thing
Speaker 1: that the governor did, though, that I think got a
Speaker 1: lot less attention, understandably, but it's still very important. Is
Speaker 1: she also set up this air pollution directive to her cabinet. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: and again this one was also modeled after California, the
Speaker 1: California Clean Truck Rules, and would require truck manufacturers to
Speaker 1: transition to clean electric, zero mission vehicles. And when we're
Speaker 1: talking about this, we're thinking, like, you know, the low
Speaker 1: income communities that are typically in these environmental deserts where
Speaker 1: they have a lot more you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: more asthma, there's a lot more health issues that are
Speaker 1: directly correlated with the air quality and what's near them.
Speaker 1: And so I think there's a lot of social justice
Speaker 1: discussion going along with the climate combating the climate change,
Speaker 1: and this is directly would directly affect those communities. So
Speaker 1: a percentage of the truck sales of these you know,
Speaker 1: truck manufacturer sales would have to be zero emissions starting
Speaker 1: with the twenty twenty five model year, and there would
Speaker 1: also be other compliance options that allow sort of truck
Speaker 1: fleets to kind of implement this and replace as they go.
Speaker 1: So I think that they're trying to be cognizant of
Speaker 1: the industry but also trying to make sure that the
Speaker 1: health of these communities is better, along with of course
Speaker 1: the emission reduction, which is a benefit. Yeah. Well it
Speaker 1: just when I read your story about that, it made
Speaker 1: me think that, right, you know, vehicles emit greenhouse gases,
Speaker 1: but they also made a lot of other stuff that
Speaker 1: is bad for the environment, bad for health, bad for
Speaker 1: air pollution, and so it seems like Governor Hochel wanted
Speaker 1: to sort of tackle those those two things at the
Speaker 1: same time. Definitely. I mean I used to live on
Speaker 1: Long Island and the air there especially I'm upstate now
Speaker 1: in Albany area, and the air there is just so
Speaker 1: thick with you know, traffic emissions and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ozone issues, and it really is as someone who
Speaker 1: has asthma, it really makes a big difference in just
Speaker 1: your daily living, ability to walk outside and and you know,
Speaker 1: especially if your transportation is is walking to work, you
Speaker 1: need to be able to walk to work and you
Speaker 1: need to be healthy to do that. So yeah, finally,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the national picture here. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, this law applies only in New York, of course,
Speaker 1: which means that after twenty thirty five, theoretically you could,
Speaker 1: you know, go to New Jersey, or go to Connecticut,
Speaker 1: or go to Pennsylvania and buy a gas powered car
Speaker 1: and drive it back into your home state. How many
Speaker 1: people will be willing to do that, who knows, but
Speaker 1: that's still possible. But that made me think that, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a limit to what New York or California can
Speaker 1: do on its own here. Is that something that the
Speaker 1: governor and state legislators are acknowledging that, you know, we're
Speaker 1: trying to regulate vehicles here, but this is a situation
Speaker 1: where we need a federal response, a multi state response.
Speaker 1: So I actually had this question come up from readers
Speaker 1: after our story came out. You know, well, can I
Speaker 1: just drive to Pennsylvania. Can I purchase my car elsewhere?
Speaker 1: It seems like the state's gonna lose car sales. And
Speaker 1: I called up one of the bill sponsors and just
Speaker 1: asked him point blank, you know, I'm reading the red
Speaker 1: the legislation, and it doesn't have anything specific to you know,
Speaker 1: the red maybe at the registration point it needs to
Speaker 1: be done. And he said, you know, I'm not really
Speaker 1: worried about it, which I was pretty surprised at. And
Speaker 1: he said, you know, this is something that other states
Speaker 1: are starting to look at. The Other states haven't passed
Speaker 1: it yet, but we have seen some laws in other
Speaker 1: states that were going through the process, and and sort
Speaker 1: of I think by California and New York started getting
Speaker 1: the ball rolling, other states will follow. And he seems
Speaker 1: to think that states surrounding New York will be doing
Speaker 1: this by twenty thirty five, so it won't be a
Speaker 1: problem as much as people are thinking about. But it
Speaker 1: definitely would be easier if there was a federal regulation
Speaker 1: for all of these air standards that we're looking at.
Speaker 1: You know, the air in one state doesn't just stop
Speaker 1: at the line. And so when we're talking about carbon
Speaker 1: emissions and you know air pollution, you know, they affect
Speaker 1: everyone and so and we as a nation, you know,
Speaker 1: need to be deciding what are our goal is in
Speaker 1: terms of emissions. And so I think New York sort
Speaker 1: of had this. The lawmakers had this lofty goal and
Speaker 1: lofty idea and are sort of hoping that other states
Speaker 1: and the federal government will follow suit. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: that was Keisha Kluky speaking to us from Albany, New York. Keisha,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking with us, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. And that'll do it for today's episode of
Speaker 1: Parts Pervilion. If you want more environmental news, check us
Speaker 1: out on Twitter. We use the handle at environment. Just
Speaker 1: that at environment, I'm at David B. Schultz. If you
Speaker 1: want to sell me a car, gas powered or otherwise,
Speaker 1: all offers will be entertained. Today's episode of Parts per
Speaker 1: Billion was produced by myself, David Schultz. Parts Pervilion was
Speaker 1: created by Jessica Coombs and Rachel Dagle and is edited
Speaker 1: by Rebecca Baker and Chuck McCutcheon. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Josh Block. Thank you everyone so much for listening. Hey there,
Speaker 1: I'm Kyle Trigg's Politics editor for Bloomberg Government, and I'm
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