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Speaker 1: Can't. I am six forty.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the John Cobelt podcast on the iHeartRadio

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Speaker 2: app John Cobelt's Show. Good that you're here. If you

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Speaker 2: like listening, We're on every day from one until four o'clock.

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Speaker 2: If you miss anything, you can pick it up on

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Speaker 2: the podcast John Cobelt's Show on demand. It's same as

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Speaker 2: the radio show, and you can listen to that anytime

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Speaker 2: after four o'clock. What has crowded out just about all

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Speaker 2: other news coverage today, no matter what media outlet you

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Speaker 2: watch or listen to or read, is Trump's tariff program

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Speaker 2: and the effects it's going to have on the US economy,

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Speaker 2: your life, the world.

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Speaker 1: And it is.

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Speaker 2: It's a full blown hysteria right now, absolute hysteria. And

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Speaker 2: the thing is, I was just thinking about this right

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Speaker 2: before the start of the show. I'm not sure I've

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Speaker 2: ever had a private conversation where the other person used

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Speaker 2: the word tariff like it's one of those words you

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Speaker 2: might see in a business article, you might hear on

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Speaker 2: an odd business report, if you even watch those kind

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Speaker 2: of things. It's just not something that people concern themselves with.

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Speaker 2: They don't know a lot about. And now that we

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Speaker 2: have this explosive event with the Trump charging high tariffs

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Speaker 2: on all these other countries. Everybody's supposed to have an opinion.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is supposed to support it or be against it.

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Speaker 2: And the truth is, nobody knows what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: at all, and most people probably don't understand what this

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Speaker 2: is anyway. The only thing they want to know is

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Speaker 2: it's going to drive up prices, because that's certainly the fear.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are expecting it who analyze these things,

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Speaker 2: and what's the reason for this. So we're going to

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Speaker 2: try to go through the basics here. A tariff is

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Speaker 2: a tax, and the tax is paid on the importation

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Speaker 2: of goods coming from other countries, and we charge tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Other countries charge tariffs on our goods, but other there's

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Speaker 2: some countries that tax our goods a lot more than

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Speaker 2: we tax theirs, and we've had a trade imbalance for

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Speaker 2: decades and decades. We buy more stuff from foreign countries

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Speaker 2: than they buy from us. We buy a lot more stuff,

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Speaker 2: especially manufactured goods, and over the years because of that,

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Speaker 2: a lot of factories have closed. It's a cliche to

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Speaker 2: say we don't make much anymore, and we don't. I

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Speaker 2: lived this because my dad was a factory worker after

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Speaker 2: he came from Poland. The joke in the family was

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Speaker 2: every seven years is fact closed and he was out

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Speaker 2: of work. And it's true three times in a row

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Speaker 2: in my lifetime growing up, his factory closed and he

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Speaker 2: finally moved on to a fourth factory and he was

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Speaker 2: able to keep that job for I guess about eighteen years.

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Speaker 2: But about the time I was born, he was on

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Speaker 2: his way out of the first factory, and then there

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Speaker 2: was a second factory and a third factory, and they

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Speaker 2: were all about seven years or so. Because the factories

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Speaker 2: were they weren't outright closing, they were moving. I remember

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Speaker 2: one moved to the South where labor was cheaper. One

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Speaker 2: moved to Mexico. Eventually factory started moving to China and

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Speaker 2: Vietnam and Cambodia. And I grew up in a blue

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Speaker 2: collar neighborhood. Every dad on the block, I think there

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Speaker 2: was only one guy with a desk job. Everybody else

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Speaker 2: they were electricians, construction workers. Factory were all my friends dads.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up with this heavy blue collar perspective.

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Speaker 2: And then one of my early jobs in Almyra, New

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Speaker 2: York where I spent two and a half years doing radio.

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Speaker 2: Ken was there as well, and it's on a different

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Speaker 2: station and very blue collar town. But all the factories

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Speaker 2: had closed some years before I got there, and everybody

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Speaker 2: was stuck in the past. Everybody couldn't believe that all

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Speaker 2: the jobs had left. And this is true of a

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Speaker 2: lot of big cities, you know, in the Northeast into

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Speaker 2: the Midwest, the rust belt, right. I think Billy Joel's

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Speaker 2: song Allantown captured it beautifully. That was a perfect song

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Speaker 2: about what life used to be like for people and

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Speaker 2: what happened. If you don't know his song Allentown, listen

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Speaker 2: to it all right, and that's the whole story there.

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Speaker 2: I always thought that was one of his best songs

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Speaker 2: and conveying what the real life of people and everybody

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Speaker 2: was a victim of what the government had decided to

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Speaker 2: do and what industrial business leaders decided to do. And

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Speaker 2: what they decided to do was they were going to

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Speaker 2: send the jobs to other countries where labor was really cheap,

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Speaker 2: you know, dollar an hour kind of labor, and you

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Speaker 2: can get away with much crueler working conditions. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there was no picnic for my dad working in a hot,

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Speaker 2: steamy factory twelve hours a day, overnights, seven days, six

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Speaker 2: days a week.

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Speaker 1: But boy, it was brutal in these countries.

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Speaker 2: And you've heard like Apple manufacturers its phones a lot

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Speaker 2: in China, and there's a company there that Apple contracted with,

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Speaker 2: and people worked very long hours for very cheap wages,

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Speaker 2: and it was so oppressive that the company had to

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Speaker 2: put suicide nets at the top of the building. I

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Speaker 2: said this the other day. They said, no, that's not true. Yes,

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Speaker 2: go look it up. They had suicide nets because workers

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Speaker 2: couldn't take it anymore. China, you don't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of choice as to what you want to do. You

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Speaker 2: got to go with the program. And so they were

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Speaker 2: hurling themselves off buildings. And you know, like they have

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Speaker 2: suicide nets on the Golden State Bridge. And there are

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Speaker 2: people and most of them have degrees, you know, they

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Speaker 2: have PhDs and economics. They work for the government, they

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Speaker 2: work for Wall Street companies, and they will tell you

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Speaker 2: that free trade and free trade means, you know, the

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Speaker 2: jobs can go anywheres and they can make goods cheaper

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Speaker 2: and we all benefit because then we pay less for

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Speaker 2: the products that we like.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's the walm Art effect. Right, we can buy cheap clothing,

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Speaker 2: we can buy cheap electronics. So this is good for

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Speaker 2: all of us. And you know our GDP goes up.

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Speaker 2: This is what the economic statistical nerds will tell you. No, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you want free trade. Otherwise you lose, you know, two

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Speaker 2: percentage points off the GDP.

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Speaker 1: There they.

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Speaker 2: What they completely missed, totally missed, and they still don't

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Speaker 2: understand to this day, is yeah, on your spreadsheets, you

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Speaker 2: got a good deal there, right, you got more money

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Speaker 2: flowing in, more GDP.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: Executives make more money. But the blue collar guys don't

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Speaker 2: have a job, and they're designed to work in factories.

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Speaker 2: They're designed to work with their hands. All the dads

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Speaker 2: in my neighborhood, that's what they were designed for. A

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Speaker 2: lot of the guys I grew up at. That's what

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Speaker 2: they were designed for. They can't do computer programming. That's

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Speaker 2: not the way the brains work. That's not their talents.

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Speaker 2: And so for those extra gross domestic product points that

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Speaker 2: the economists and government government geeks are so proud of,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people had their lives run because they

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Speaker 2: don't know what to do there's no job for them,

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Speaker 2: or they take a low wage job like you know,

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Speaker 2: flipping burgers or shaking fry baskets.

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Speaker 1: It's not meaningful.

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Speaker 2: You know, My dad at least at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day knew he was part of a manufacturing process

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Speaker 2: and the goods were packaged and then shipped out, and

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Speaker 2: there was a satisfaction in that.

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Speaker 1: There was a pride in that.

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Speaker 2: If you're in a service job or a retail job

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Speaker 2: or a make work job, not the same thing. Doesn't

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Speaker 2: pay much, can't raise a family on it. People always say, well,

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Speaker 2: why is it so hard to raise a family today?

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Speaker 1: Why is life so difficult?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's difficult because we gave away millions and millions

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Speaker 2: of manufacturing jobs. We lost tens of millions of manufacturing

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Speaker 2: jobs when we let China into the World Trade Organization.

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Speaker 1: You know, for years they were blocked out.

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Speaker 2: And then this is during the Clinton and Bush years,

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Speaker 2: they let China in and suddenly the likes of Apple

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Speaker 2: sent all their factories over to China. Oh, but you're

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Speaker 2: getting products cheaper, And I always think, are we I

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Speaker 2: don't know is Apple phones are well over one thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: What it is is they're getting big profits, and I

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Speaker 2: don't criticize profits very often. I don't even know if

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Speaker 2: I'm criticizing him now. I'm just saying that there's a consequence.

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Speaker 2: If you want free trade and you want to let

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Speaker 2: you want to have everything manufactured out of the country

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Speaker 2: and ship it here where we buy it cheaper. If

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Speaker 2: that's what you want, it's going to cost. That's why

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Speaker 2: a lot of guys, our young guys are lost. They're

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Speaker 2: on drugs, they're on heroin, they drink too much. They

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Speaker 2: spend all their days either online or playing video games

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Speaker 2: because they can't do office work. They can't do computer work.

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Speaker 2: That's not their thing. And there were plentiful jobs years

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Speaker 2: ago for that kind of guy, and now there isn't anymore.

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Speaker 2: They're not college material, some of them are barely high

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Speaker 2: school material. And Trump what he says he wants to

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Speaker 2: do it. I had no idea if this is gonna

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Speaker 2: work or not. That might be a disaster. You might

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Speaker 2: have to reverse course in a month or two. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it'll be boom time. Nobody knows, and I wouldn't listen

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Speaker 2: to anybody who knows. There's so much bias out there.

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Speaker 2: You either have knee jerk Trump critics who hope he fails,

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Speaker 2: or you have these Trump cheerleaders and he can do

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Speaker 2: no wrong. And both both both groups are excruciating to

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Speaker 2: listen to. They're both full of it. They don't know

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen. They hope what's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: So why it's very hard actually to do this job, much

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Speaker 2: harder than it used to be, because I don't trust

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Speaker 2: anything I read, and I don't believe anything I hear.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I don't don't trust people's motivations.

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Speaker 2: I don't trust their partisanship. But I'll leave you with

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Speaker 2: this Wall Street Journal printed a chart, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to get deep into numbers, but China imports four

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty billion dollars worth of goods into this country.

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Speaker 2: We only export one hundred and forty billion, So China

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Speaker 2: imports three hundred billion more dollars worth of goods, and

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Speaker 2: that money goes back to China. It leaves American and

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Speaker 2: goes to China. There's a three hundred billion dollar trade

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Speaker 2: in balance in the European Union. It's about two hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty five billion extra that we pay out to

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Speaker 2: European countries, then they pay to us for goods. Even

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Speaker 2: Mexico is one hundred and seventy billion. And I go

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Speaker 2: on and on with all the countries, but you get

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Speaker 2: the point. We don't make much, but we're the biggest

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Speaker 2: market to buy. We don't have jobs, especially for a

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Speaker 2: lot of younger guys who are not college educated. Why

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Speaker 2: do you think they're they're the strongest supporters of Trump,

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Speaker 2: he had said. Actually, they were playing clips on the

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Speaker 2: business channels today have Trump going back to the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighties railing about how companies screw us over in trade,

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Speaker 2: and he campaigned every day, he talked about terriffs. He

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Speaker 2: said he was going to do this, and he did it.

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Speaker 1: Now. Whether it will work again, I don't know. Nobody does.

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Speaker 2: But the purpose, if you believe him, is because we've

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Speaker 2: lost a ton of manufacturing. We pay way more to

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Speaker 2: these countries than they pay us for our goods. And

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Speaker 2: he thinks things are completely out of whack and that

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Speaker 2: this will go a long way to fixing it. And

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Speaker 2: there's also a lot of negotiating leverage going on. I

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Speaker 2: don't think these tariffs are going to remain this high.

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Speaker 2: I think the other countries are gonna sit down and say,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's work a deal. We'll lower our tariffs

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Speaker 2: on your US goods and you lower the tariffs on

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Speaker 2: our goods. So this is a story. I always told

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Speaker 2: you we had a three day rule. You wait three

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Speaker 2: days on a big story and see what the truth is.

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Speaker 2: This could be a three month rule, this could be

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Speaker 2: a one year rule. And the reason the stock market

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Speaker 2: crash today is nobody knows what's going to happen. So

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Speaker 2: when you don't know what the economy is going to

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Speaker 2: be like in the next few months or a year,

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Speaker 2: and you don't know how much profit that a company

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Speaker 2: is going to make, then what's the price of the stock.

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Speaker 2: What's it supposed to be? Well, when nobody knows a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, well a lot of Wall Street investor types,

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Speaker 2: they sell, They sell and say, you know what, let's

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Speaker 2: sit it out for a while, see what happens.

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Speaker 1: That's what's going on today. All right, more coming up.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to John Cobelt on demand from KFI AM

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Speaker 3: six forty.

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Speaker 2: John Cobelt Moistline is eighty seven seven, mois Steady six

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Speaker 2: eight seven seven Moist Stady six or that talk pack

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Speaker 2: feature on the iHeartRadio app coming just you know what's ahead.

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Speaker 2: After one point thirty, we're gonna have Mike Tubusky on

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Speaker 2: from ABC News. He's their technology reporter. Amazon is putting

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Speaker 2: in a last minute bid to buy TikTok.

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Speaker 1: You want TikTok.

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Speaker 4: Do? I?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, Well, I mean I don't. It's not my thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Right, you're not a twelve year old girl, I'm not. Yeah, Okay, Well,

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Speaker 2: Amazon is putting in a bid to buy it. You

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Speaker 2: know that that whole thing is still up in the air.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then after two o'clock, Alex Stone from ABC News

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Speaker 2: is going to talk about with all these tariffs going

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Speaker 2: into effect, big taxes on imports from other countries, what

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Speaker 2: consumer goods are going to go up in price? Stuff

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Speaker 2: you buy will shortly be noticeably more expensive.

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Speaker 1: And we'll discuss that further. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I spent a few minutes on Gavin Newsom. He did

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Speaker 2: a press conference today. It was it was in the

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Speaker 2: Central Valley, it was it was yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I guess they have some kind of program career advancement

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Speaker 2: opportunities for Californians who were looking for good paying jobs,

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Speaker 2: whether they have a four year college degree or not,

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of whatever. But the interesting part

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Speaker 2: was when reporters started asking him questions not on his topic,

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Speaker 2: after the after they went through their presentation, and uh,

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Speaker 2: there's a there's a reporter up in Sacramento, case r

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Speaker 2: A t v Ashley Zavala.

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Speaker 1: She keeps showing up in the.

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Speaker 2: Clips that we use because she's one of the few

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Speaker 2: that is not a sycophant of Newsom. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of Newsome sycophants in the media. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of progressive reporters and producers and editors, and they treat

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Speaker 2: him very gently. They don't want to they don't want

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Speaker 2: to do anything to hurt the cause. But actually Zavala

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Speaker 2: is not playing that game. And uh, we're gonna play

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Speaker 2: a clip here because Newsom is still getting dogged. Uh

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Speaker 2: after that podcast that he did with the conservative activist

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Speaker 2: Charlie Clark Kirk where he agreed that having biological boys

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Speaker 2: and men play girls and women's sports in school was

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Speaker 2: deeply unfair, and he's kind of waffled all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And two Republicans, Kate Sanchez and Bill A. Sale, called

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Speaker 2: his bluff with two bills in the Assembly one that

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Speaker 2: would ban transgender biological men from playing in girls' sports

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Speaker 2: and the other would ban them from dressing in girls'

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Speaker 2: locker rooms, and the Democrats vetoed it. Newsom didn't do

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Speaker 2: anything to stop the Democrats vetoing it, and so people

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Speaker 2: are saying, well, you just said it's deeply unfair, so

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Speaker 2: why don't you change the law.

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Speaker 1: So this is actually Zavalla from Casey r a t.

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Speaker 5: V difficult to make that determination. I'm you know, I

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Speaker 5: spent an hour a week on this. The guy have

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Speaker 5: a conversation tomorrow with someone and there's a podcast question.

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Speaker 5: Conversation takes many different forms shapes. Sometimes what you expect

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Speaker 5: will be discussed. Sometimes things come up that are off

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Speaker 5: topic that become topical. But it's not an agenda setting effort.

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Speaker 5: I'm not trying to legislate from that prism.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, stop there.

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Speaker 2: So the question was about his podcast, right, and he goes,

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Speaker 2: it's not an agenda setting effort, but he gave an

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Speaker 2: opinion that is at odds with the legislation he just

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Speaker 2: signed a couple of years ago, and that's allowing the

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Speaker 2: transgenders to play girl sports. And then he says, I'm

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Speaker 2: not legislating from that prism. He could say I'm not

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Speaker 2: legislating from the podcast, but he had to use the

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Speaker 2: word prism. He's so so weird. He just can't talk normally,

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Speaker 2: and you could tell he's nervous. And one thing about him,

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Speaker 2: he is not good with question and answer things. He

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Speaker 2: gets nervous, he starts babbling his techno garble, and he

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Speaker 2: doesn't like being confronted. And you can see the podcast

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Speaker 2: he'll blurt things out and then regret that he blurted

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Speaker 2: it out. I'm sure he wished he never brought up

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Speaker 2: this whole transgender issue because nobody's leaving it alone.

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Speaker 5: Continue PRISM using this platform. That's the work I do

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Speaker 5: as governor. The extent it crosses over. You talked to

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Speaker 5: an Ezra Kline and he's talking about this framework of

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Speaker 5: abundance and he's talking about litigation and SEQUA and NIPA

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Speaker 5: and Reagan and Nixon, and listen to how that crossover

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Speaker 5: around high speed rail and other things housing supply, and

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Speaker 5: that obviously crosses over quite nicely. The work we're doing

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Speaker 5: was highlighted. I appreciate Buffy Wicks and the twenty plus

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Speaker 5: bill she introduced was highlighted and underscored, and the conversation

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Speaker 5: that we had of I think her sort of renewed

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Speaker 5: enthusiasm of my enthusiasm in this space which has been

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Speaker 5: well established space as it relates to judicial review in

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Speaker 5: some of the forms we made of the course last

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Speaker 5: many years. So you know, I think component parts, but

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Speaker 5: I want to overread it because.

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Speaker 1: I have so and so on. This is some new agenda.

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Speaker 5: It's what I said it was going to be, which

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Speaker 5: is an opportunity to have conversations with people that I

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Speaker 5: agree with and disagree with, to have a kind of

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Speaker 5: conversations that I.

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Speaker 1: Haven't priced up.

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Speaker 2: Again, he came out of the podcast and he said,

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Speaker 2: the effects of the bill that he signed are deeply unfair.

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Speaker 1: Those are his words, he said, they're unfair.

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Speaker 2: It's his bill that he signed allowing you know, transgender

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Speaker 2: biological men to play with girls. So if he signed

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Speaker 2: something deeply unfair, he's acknowledging it.

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Speaker 1: But he won't.

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Speaker 2: He won't rescind it and listen, he doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: address it, so he just starts babbling.

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Speaker 1: Play some more.

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Speaker 5: To have a kind of conversations that I have in private,

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Speaker 5: but to make them public, to be even more transparent

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Speaker 5: in that process and content that big ideas come from

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Speaker 5: private conversations I have and they can be incorporated into policymaking.

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Speaker 5: I think it would be wonderful if those public conversations

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Speaker 5: generated an idea too as well. But that again is

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Speaker 5: the intention of the podcasting.

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Speaker 1: Is he getting paid yeah, this is yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, And it's the exact same format as the prior one,

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Speaker 5: and we had all those fancy attorneys figure all that

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Speaker 5: out and it's all transparent on the seven hundred form

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Speaker 5: and all that. It's trains a dollar. In fact, this

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Speaker 5: has cost me money. But that's another conversation.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's doing it for iHeart, and no, he's not

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Speaker 2: getting paid by iHeart. That would create all kinds of

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Speaker 2: conflicts of interest. But because iHeart has news and talk

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Speaker 2: stations that have to cover him, so if he's a

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Speaker 2: paid employee, you could see why that would be a problem.

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Speaker 2: So maybe he is paid for I don't know, the

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Speaker 2: studio rental, the equipment, I don't know, But no, he's

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Speaker 2: not getting paid. This is a vehicle to start campaigning

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Speaker 2: for president. That's what he's doing. He's interviewing national political

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Speaker 2: figures from all idiology jeez to raise his because he's

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Speaker 2: not really well known other than as maybe as a

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Speaker 2: goof governor of California. He's not well known around the country.

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Speaker 2: You know, when he shows up in polls, his name

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Speaker 2: gets three percent. You know, he's he's he looms over

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Speaker 2: our life because we're so oppressed in this state.

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Speaker 1: But outside of the borders, he's looked on as kind

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Speaker 1: of a clown.

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Speaker 2: All right, more coming up, Deborah Mark Uh, oh wait,

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Speaker 2: I'm mistiezsh.

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Speaker 1: You turn your mic off? Oh my god, I guess

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Speaker 1: I could have turned his micall. I guess you could have.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I was paralyzed.

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Speaker 3: You couldn't.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I was a para. He don't comment on

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Speaker 1: my yawns.

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Speaker 5: Again.

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Speaker 2: Amazon maybe buying TikTok. At least they put in a

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Speaker 2: bid Mike Debusky for maybe c News A love that story.

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Speaker 1: Coming up.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to John Cobel's on demand from KFI AM

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Speaker 3: six forty.

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Speaker 2: You can follow us John Cobelt Radio on social media. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we need less than the six hundred followers to hit

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Speaker 2: the magic twenty five thousand marks, So follow us at

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Speaker 2: John Cobelt Radio. April fifth, which is two days from

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Speaker 2: now was supposed to be the deadline that the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration had set for TikTok to be sold. TikTok is

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Speaker 2: old by a Chinese company called bike Dance, and there

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Speaker 2: are fears throughout the American government that bike Dance has

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Speaker 2: an elaborate spy network within TikTok and that's the reason

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Speaker 2: they came up with this app. And they're getting information

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Speaker 2: on about one hundred and thirty five million Americans use it.

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Speaker 2: So Chinese never said they're willing to sell it, but

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Speaker 2: Trump tried to get some buyers together, Amazon supposedly one

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Speaker 2: of them. Now, we're going to get the latest from

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Speaker 2: Mike Debuski from ABC News, the technology reporter on the

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Speaker 2: current situation. Mike, how are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing well.

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Speaker 1: On how are you? I'm all right.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of people that use TikTok, not

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Speaker 2: just for entertainment but for business. Trump used it to

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Speaker 2: good effect for his campaign, and we're two days away

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Speaker 2: from the alleged deadline.

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Speaker 1: So what's going on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, about one hundred and seventy million Americans use TikTok

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Speaker 4: every month, we think, and that includes millions of businesses. Right,

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Speaker 4: people think of TikTok as a place where, you know,

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Speaker 4: teenagers post videos of themselves dancing, but it's actually a

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Speaker 4: pretty big vector for commerce, people posting about their small

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Speaker 4: businesses and then getting some return as a result of that.

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Speaker 4: Amazon is the latest player to enter this fray, confirming

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Speaker 4: to ABC News that they have sent a letter to

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Speaker 4: the Trump administration expressing their interest in potentially acquiring TikTok.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of an interesting move from Amazon. We don't

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Speaker 4: really think of them as a social media company. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: they are dominant in the world of e commerce, but

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Speaker 4: TikTok also has the TikTok Shop, which is a pretty

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Speaker 4: robust sales platform of its own, so there is some

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Speaker 4: synergy between these two companies in that regard. However, as

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Speaker 4: you reference, TikTok is owned by a Chinese parent company,

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Speaker 4: and China's government has said that any sale of TikTok

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Speaker 4: that includes the algorithm, that is to say, the technology

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Speaker 4: that serves you videos is a no go. So essentially, Amazon,

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Speaker 4: if it were to acquire TikTok would have to build

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Speaker 4: an algorithm itself. It would have to start from square one,

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Speaker 4: so a lot of i's left to be dotted and

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Speaker 4: t's left to be crossed here. Amazon is by no

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Speaker 4: means the only company in contention. We also think that

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Speaker 4: the mobile tech company known as app Lovin has put

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Speaker 4: in a bid to acquire TikTok, as well as Oracle

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Speaker 4: or group of companies that include Oracles. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of attention on this as the final hours.

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Speaker 1: Tick down here. How much would this go for the company?

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00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: Great question.

436
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: We don't really know. The general estimate is that this

437
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: could be in the world of one hundred billion dollars.

438
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: It's obviously a hugely value app that is relied upon

439
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 4: by billion and yeah, and and I mean you think

440
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 4: back of course to twenty twenty two when Elon Musk

441
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: acquired Twitter. He bought it for forty four billion dollars,

442
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 4: so a little bit less than half of that. Obviously

443
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 4: two kind of different companies there. But even still, we

444
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 4: really haven't seen a sale like this, you know, at

445
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: least on this scale. That sort of brings up another

446
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 4: problem here, which is that even if this rarefied group

447
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: of companies that could afford TikTok, Amazon, you know, Meta,

448
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 4: potentially Microsoft, a couple others, even if they were to

449
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 4: make a move.

450
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: To acquire this app.

451
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 4: You can imagine that regulators around the world, antitrust regulators

452
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: would want to take a close look at it because

453
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: it's just so you know, big, and so valuable. Now,

454
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 4: the interesting question here is whether the lack of an

455
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 4: algorithm in any potential sale will impact the value of TikTok. Right,

456
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: the algorithm is what makes TikTok TikTok. It's the engine

457
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: of the car, and if any company where to buy

458
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 4: it without that algorithm, you're buying a car without an engine.

459
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: Essentially, So it's not a stupid question.

460
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: But how difficult is it to build an algorithm to

461
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: keep TikTok performing the way it currently performs for people?

462
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 4: Well, theyre I'll give you two different answers. On the

463
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 4: one hand, it's really pretty easy to build an algorithm

464
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: that just serves you videos. It's much more difficult to

465
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 4: build an algorithm that's good to the degree that TikTok

466
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: is good. TikTok's algorithm is its special sauce. It's the

467
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 4: thing that keeps people coming back. It is what has

468
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 4: raised concerns among lawmakers and experts and others that TikTok

469
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: is addictive, particularly to younger people and it distinguishes itself

470
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 4: from other competitors in this space. In the US, right Meta,

471
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: which owns Facebook and Instagram. They have Instagram Reels, which

472
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 4: is basically a clone of TikTok. Google has YouTube Shorts,

473
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 4: which is much the same thing. Neither of those platforms

474
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: have really taken off to the same degree that TikTok.

475
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: That's the perception among people who use these apps is

476
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: that they're just not as good, Right, They're not as

477
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 4: good as showing me things that I like or things

478
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: that I'm interested in. Something that really makes TikTok different

479
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 4: is that it shows you things that you didn't realize

480
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 4: you were interested in.

481
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 5: Right.

482
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 4: It is able to make those connections in such a

483
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 4: way that it's interesting and compelling and potentially addictive to

484
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 4: some people. So in some ways, yeah TV for Amazon

485
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 4: to just kind of slap a crappy algorithm in there

486
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 4: and call it a day, But will that mean people,

487
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 4: you know, kind of evacuate the app and move over

488
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: to other platforms, or just drop the trend altogether of

489
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 4: vertical scrolling video.

490
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of question.

491
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 4: Marks around that.

492
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: One thing I haven't heard explained the reason Trump has

493
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 2: been trying to find a buyer is that it seems

494
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: like everyone in government both parties think that this is

495
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: a massive spy operation that China is running under the

496
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: guise of a social media service. They has anybody ever

497
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: explained exactly how they're spying on people and what kind

498
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: of information they're collecting, Like why, because, I mean, why

499
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: are they is the administration reacting the whole government reacting

500
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: so harshly? What do they think the Chinese are doing?

501
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: What kind of information are they hoarding?

502
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: So there's two sort of buckets of concern that lawmakers

503
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: have put forward with regards to TikTok. It's not that

504
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: TikTok is owned by the Chinese government by any stretch.

505
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 4: It's owned by a parent company that's headquartered in China.

506
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: The concern amoung lawmakers is that Chinese government could compel

507
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: that company to do one of two things. One to

508
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 4: spy on American users. If you have an app on

509
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: your phone, it's collecting some amount of data about you.

510
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 4: You either have to enter your email address, your phone number,

511
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 4: maybe location data. In some cases, that's valuable data, right,

512
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 4: That's valuable data to a US adversary, That's valuable data

513
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 4: to an advertiser. So there's a degree of that that

514
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 4: is at concern here, especially given how popular TikTok is here.

515
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: The other concern is that it could be used as

516
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: a vector by which to spread misinformation, right that the

517
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: China's government could compel ByteDance to put pro China videos

518
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: in people's fees and get that messaging in front of

519
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: eyeballs that would otherwise not see it. But the crucial

520
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: piece of this right now, John, is that despite the

521
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: fears that that lawmakers have said and have stated in

522
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 4: congressional testimony, they have not put forward any hard evidence.

523
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: There's no smoking gun here to say that China's government

524
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 4: is doing this right now. Right now, this is purely

525
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 4: in the realm of the hypothetical. But even still, since

526
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: we've been talking about batting TikTok for five years now,

527
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 4: it's clearly something that is not going away and something

528
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: that continues to be a talking point for lawmakers.

529
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: All right, Mike, thanks good stuff.

530
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: I wanted detail of Mike Debuski, ABC News Technology reporter.

531
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: After two o'clock, Alex Stone's coming on. You've heard all

532
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: the screaming and moaning about the tariffs. What's going to

533
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: cost you specifically in your life. That's what Alex we'll

534
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: be talking about after two.

535
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: You're listening to John Cobels on demand from KFI AM

536
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 3: six forty.

537
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: John Cobel cho KFI AM six forty Live everywhere on

538
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: the iHeart Radio app. Eight seven seven Moist eighty six

539
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: is for the Moist Line and that's tomorrow eight seven

540
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: seven Moist eighty six, and also you can use the

541
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: talkback feature on the iHeart Radio app. Coming up after

542
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: two o'clock, Alex Stone, because the word of the day

543
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: is tariffs. How many times in your life have you

544
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: had a discussion about tariffs? Do you know what a

545
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: tariff is? Do you care?

546
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: Well?

547
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: Now that Trump has issued tariffs on many countries, and

548
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: the tariff is attacks on goods that are imported into

549
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: the US. That's going to cause price increases at least

550
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: for a time. I care you, I care? Oh, I

551
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: imagine a lot of the clothing you buy. Yeah, yeah,

552
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: I was trying to think, like, I don't think, I

553
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: think scale all the vegan food you eat, I don't

554
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: think it's going to be affected, but probably so. Anyway,

555
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: that was that's coming up after two o'clock and we'll

556
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: find out. We'll see if anything effect is going to

557
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: affect your life. I read you yesterday we talked about

558
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: how there was a book on Joe Biden and how

559
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: senile he was, and they interviewed for this book his

560
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: his chief of staff Ron Klain, who admitted that Biden

561
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: was completely out of it in the weeks leading up

562
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: to the famous debate. Two weeks they tried to train him.

563
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: He didn't one thing.

564
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: I remember, he didn't understand his own argument about inflation.

565
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: Like they knew inflation was going to be a top issue,

566
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: that Trump was going to come after him hard, that

567
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: the moderators were going to question him on inflation, and

568
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: so you know, how.

569
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: Would they do.

570
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: They got to construct the defense, an explanation to spin

571
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: to make it seem like the inflation wasn't really that bad,

572
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: it didn't last that long.

573
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: But you know, there were reasons beyond his control.

574
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: Whatever the dance was, he couldn't figure it out, Like

575
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: he didn't grasp what it is he's supposed to say.

576
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: They're trying to feed him lines and he wasn't able

577
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: to focus. He'd get tired very quickly. After about twenty minutes,

578
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: he'd want to go take a nap, and he'd wander

579
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: outside and just stare and they knew, they knew it

580
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: was going to be a disaster, which cracks me up

581
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: because they all went on television afterwards, including Gavin news

582
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: to remember, and they went on afterwards and they said, well,

583
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't really that bad. I thought he

584
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: did pretty good. You know, everybody has an off night.

585
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: Bab blah blah. They knew he was senile two weeks beforehand.

586
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: They knew the debate was going to be a.

587
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 4: Disaster, wasn't Kamala Harris who said he run circles around her?

588
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: Basically yes, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean the tremendous

589
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: lies that these people told. And they're still in office,

590
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: or they still want to be in office, they're still

591
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: in the public light. We played a Newsom clip before

592
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: Newsom went around. He was one of the strongest defenders

593
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: of Biden. After the debate, it's like, buddy, you led

594
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: your ass off. Not that anybody believed him anyway. Here's

595
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: a second book that's also out. Jonathan Allen wrote the book,

596
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: and he says that Barack Obama did not want Kamala

597
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: Harris on the ticket, that he was behind the scenes

598
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: working against Kamala being put on the ticket to replace Biden.

599
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: Here's what Jonathan Allen said on MSNBC. President Obama did

600
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: not think that Joe Biden should continue. He also didn't

601
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: Wantamala Harris to be the replacement. He didn't think she

602
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: was the best choice, and he worked behind the scenes

603
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: for a long time to have a mini primary or

604
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: an open convention, or a many primary leading to an

605
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 2: open convention. He did not have faith in her ability

606
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: to win the election, but that he went around campaigning

607
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: for her about how wonderful she is.

608
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: Does anybody tell the truth? Any politician tell the truth?

609
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: No Ah, what a bunch of liars. All these people

610
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: should not be allowed in government ever. Again, the whole

611
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: lot of them. We don't have to worry about Biden

612
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: trying to crawl back in, but if you're voting for

613
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, you really need to have your head examined.

614
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: First of all, I think she's stoned bunch of the time.

615
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: That's why she makes no sense. Somebody ought to do

616
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: a drug test next time she appears in public. Obama

617
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: was not even willing to endorse Harris on the day

618
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 2: Biden dropped out. Remember Biden went right away and said, okay,

619
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: he endorses Kamala. He had set up a call with

620
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 2: the South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn, and Clyburn, in discussing

621
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: with Obama, realized he wants to try to get me

622
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 2: to endorse this open convention idea, which a lot of

623
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 2: people didn't want to do because they thought it would

624
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: end up being a disaster. And one more thing, On

625
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: the day of the debate that Harris had with Trump,

626
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: Biden called Harris up and reminded her that she has

627
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: to stay loyal, that there's going to be should be

628
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: no daylight between her and the Biden record. He didn't

629
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: want even an indirect criticism of his term, and stupidly

630
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: she went along with that. If you remember, she never

631
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: issued a single criticism. When she was asked on the

632
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: view of all places, what would you do differently, she said,

633
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: I can't really think of anything, and it's because Joe

634
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 2: ordered her to and she listened to him. I hope

635
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 2: that crowd never ever shows up again running for anything.

636
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: Deborah Mark is live in the KFI twenty four hour News. Hey,

637
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the John Cobalt Show podcast. You

638
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: can always hear the show live on KFI Am six

639
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 2: forty from one to four pm every Monday through Friday,

640
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: and of course, anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app