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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore

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Speaker 1: the intersection of social media, technology and identity. And this

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Speaker 1: is another installment of our weekly news bound Up, where

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Speaker 1: we break down all the stories on the Internet that

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Speaker 1: you might have missed so you don't have to. This

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Speaker 1: is a bit weird, but producer Mike we you and

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Speaker 1: I are still here, still on planet Earth. As far

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Speaker 1: as I know. We did not get raptured like an

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Speaker 1: evangelical TikTok thought we might.

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Speaker 2: I have so many bills and outstanding debts that I

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Speaker 2: unexpectedly need to take care of.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I saw a few tik taks from people who

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, I'm racking up credit card debt because

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Speaker 1: I'm not to get raptured, baby, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: be paying that back. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I totally thought that I would be kicking it in heaven,

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Speaker 2: you know, toss them back cocktails with Saint Peter. But

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Speaker 2: I'm still here on this earthly rock.

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Speaker 1: So September twenty third or twenty fourth, depending on who

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Speaker 1: you ask, was supposed to mark the rapture, the day

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Speaker 1: that Jesus Christ would return to Earth, gather up all

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Speaker 1: the true believers, and leave behind everybody else to endure

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Speaker 1: seven years of God's judgment. As far as I can tell,

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Speaker 1: and also according to the cut, this prediction traces back

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Speaker 1: to a South African pastor named Joshua Mikayla. In a

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Speaker 1: sermon clip shared on a very official sounding YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: he said that he received a direct vision from JC himself,

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ warning at the end of the world was

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Speaker 1: going to be taking place on September twenty third, or

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Speaker 1: possibly the twenty fourth. If you're listening to this, I

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Speaker 1: guess it is possible the rapture did happen and that

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Speaker 1: we all did not get raptured and we have not

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Speaker 1: yet faced judgment. Or maybe we're all in purgatory, so like,

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Speaker 1: if that's the case, welcome to the world's first purgatory podcast.

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Speaker 2: That's possible. Maybe zero humans made the cut. Maybe Jesus

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Speaker 2: took a look around. It was just like, nah, you all,

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Speaker 2: y'all just got to stay here. Sorry, I came, I'm leaving.

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Speaker 1: Good luck. Honestly, I was looking forward to it. I

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Speaker 1: was ready for this all to be over. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready for what's next. Bring it on, you know.

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Speaker 2: I was really rooting for all the evangelicals who thought

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Speaker 2: that they were going to get raptured, to get raptured,

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Speaker 2: like they give what they want. I feel like we

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Speaker 2: could adapt without.

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Speaker 1: Them down here.

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Speaker 2: But we're all still here together. We all still have

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Speaker 2: to make our way in this earthly plane together.

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Speaker 1: Well, so we get into some of the stories that

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Speaker 1: folks might have missed on the Internet this week.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're still here, Yes, we have no choice.

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Speaker 1: Also, just FYI, if the rapture comes, there are no

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Speaker 1: girls on the internet. We published Tuesdays and Fridays. Come

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Speaker 1: hell or high water, we will have internet takes for you.

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Speaker 1: The Tangoti team will be putting on episodes regardless. So

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Speaker 1: if if that day does come, it doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: it was it actually happened on the twenty fourth, But

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Speaker 1: if it does come, you can rest assured we will

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Speaker 1: have Internet takes for you still. Even if the rapture.

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Speaker 2: Happens, bet's'll be some really funny takes on Blue Sky

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Speaker 2: when it happens.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, I can't wait for the takes. The rapture takes.

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Speaker 1: So we told you about the website and app that

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Speaker 1: sprang up in the aftermath of the death of Charlie

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Speaker 1: Kirk that was really a place for Charlie Kirk fans

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Speaker 1: to dot people who they deemed as not being mournful

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Speaker 1: enough of Kirk's death. Well, according to Straight Arrow News,

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Speaker 1: that site is now exposing the personal data of the

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Speaker 1: people making those submissions. So initially the site was called

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Speaker 1: Charlie's Murderers dot Com and quickly rebranded to Cancel the Hate,

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Speaker 1: and they launched in the wake of kirks assassination at

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Speaker 1: September tenth. The website says, Cancel the Hate aims to

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Speaker 1: quote hold individuals accountable for their public words and calls

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Speaker 1: on users to express concern by submitting intel on alleged offenders,

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Speaker 1: including their names, locations, and employers. For some reason, they're

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Speaker 1: really interested in targeting medical professionals. The system of Straight aerownews.

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Speaker 1: Cancel the Hate highlights that particular interest in medical professionals

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Speaker 1: whose conduct could endanger patients, the website says, as well

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Speaker 1: as public officials, business owners, entertainers, influencers, teachers, and educational administrators.

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Speaker 2: That is pretty curious, and I think we can only

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Speaker 2: speculate why. But we know that these people love to

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Speaker 2: target doctors who are associated with providing abortions or reproductive care,

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Speaker 2: or providing gender affirming care. So, you know, one can

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Speaker 2: only guess why they would have this special interest in

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Speaker 2: medical professionals. But you know, one hypothesis could be that

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Speaker 2: this whole enterprise is mainly interested in collecting data that

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Speaker 2: they can then use to target people that they don't like,

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Speaker 2: and if so, medical professionals are pretty high on that

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Speaker 2: list for them, so that could make some sense.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, just listen. If you're thinking this whole thing

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Speaker 1: as some sort of enterprise to collect data and maybe

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Speaker 1: not be super careful with that data, just listen. So,

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Speaker 1: according to Straight Arrow News, Cancel the Hate says users

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Speaker 1: who submit data on others will not have their personal

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Speaker 1: details made public. However, they later then launched a social

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Speaker 1: media style app that was launched alongside the website that

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Speaker 1: appears to have been exposing exactly that. According to Straight

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Speaker 1: Arrow News, a flaw in the app, discovered by a

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Speaker 1: security researcher who goes by Bob de Hacker, enabled an

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Speaker 1: exposure of user information such as email addresses and phone numbers,

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like just by default, the people turning

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Speaker 1: in others on this app have their email addresses publicly

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Speaker 1: listed in their bio, which is pretty unusual, and that

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Speaker 1: even if they did change their privacy settings to turn

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Speaker 1: that off, their email addresses were still exposed. So straight

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Speaker 1: Arrownews set up a test account on the app, and

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Speaker 1: then this researcher, Bob de Hacker, was able to provide

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Speaker 1: straight arrownews with a sample of data from one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty two users, which included that test account that

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Speaker 1: they had started, so it does seem to prove that yes,

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Speaker 1: that data was accessible. Bob de Hacker also demonstrated how

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Speaker 1: the security flaw allowed them to remove users by deleting

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Speaker 1: straight arrownews as test account. So straight Arrownews then reached

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Speaker 1: out to a user who was listed in this leaked data,

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Speaker 1: and that person confirmed that they had in fact downloaded

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Speaker 1: this Canceled the Hate Charlie Kirk app. That user, who

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Speaker 1: did ask to remain anonymous over fears of retribution, expressed

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Speaker 1: concerns that Canceled Hate might be a quote scam. After

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Speaker 1: receiving an influx of donation requests, to their email. That

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Speaker 1: really goes back to what we talked about in our

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Speaker 1: episodes about the tea app, that these sites or these

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Speaker 1: apps that pop up very quickly to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: a certain kind of culture war or social or political climate,

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Speaker 1: they kind of have to cut quarters in order to

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Speaker 1: kind of go to market with the quickness to take

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Speaker 1: advantage of the moment that everybody is talking about. And

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Speaker 1: because they're cutting those corners, they are putting things like

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Speaker 1: I don't know the privacy of their users at risk

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Speaker 1: just so they could take advantage of that cultural moment.

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Speaker 1: I really feel like this is so similar to exactly

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Speaker 1: what we saw with the t app.

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Speaker 2: I agree, it does sound very similar. I feel bad

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Speaker 2: for this user that the News network reached out to,

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Speaker 2: who you know, expressed concern and thought that maybe it

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Speaker 2: could be a scam. And it's like, honey, if you

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Speaker 2: think this is a scam, just like expand your scope

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Speaker 2: a little bit.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is a scam. Yeah, the entire thing

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Speaker 1: is a scam. And genuinely, in our episode about Charlie Kirk,

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Speaker 1: I went to this website myself and I kind of

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Speaker 1: can't believe anybody would put their information into it, but

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Speaker 1: I do feel like it gives a kind of a

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Speaker 1: false sense of security because the whole website is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're the one who's reporting others. You are giving, you

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Speaker 1: are providing the information of others so that they will

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Speaker 1: be that so that they will have their security put

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Speaker 1: at risk. I think that something about that dynamic creates

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Speaker 1: a false sense of security where they're certainly not going

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Speaker 1: to put my information at risk. I'm the one that's

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Speaker 1: meant to be putting others information at risk.

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Speaker 2: I hate to give these people the benefit of the doubt,

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Speaker 2: but you know, the people who are doxing others for

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Speaker 2: being insufficiently mournful, But I do feel bad for them

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Speaker 2: because this whole enterprise, this website has the trappings of

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Speaker 2: an organizing endeavor where we're all in this together, run

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Speaker 2: the same team. Guys, we're trying to punish these libs

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Speaker 2: who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death. I guess I think

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Speaker 2: that was kind of the gist of what they were

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Speaker 2: going for. That's right, But you know, in in like

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Speaker 2: a real organizing effort where you were you know, someone

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Speaker 2: is truly in good faith trying to organize their community,

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Speaker 2: taking care of people in the community is a big

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Speaker 2: part of it, and that's just not present here at all,

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Speaker 2: like pretty clearly, like not only did they not have

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Speaker 2: their security buttoned up to allow information to be unintentionally

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Speaker 2: accessed by Bob the hacker, but by the fall people's

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Speaker 2: email address was exposed. Like that is just not even

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Speaker 2: taking the first step to protect the people who you

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Speaker 2: are trying to ostensibly organize and recruit into this collective effort.

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Speaker 2: And I again I feel bad for the users who

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Speaker 2: were trying to use this thing in good faith, I guess.

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Speaker 2: But you know, to someone like myself who views this

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Speaker 2: whole enterprise as just like a right wing scam to

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Speaker 2: collect data and like punish the Libs and achieve power,

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Speaker 2: it is completely not surprising that they would build this

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Speaker 2: in a way that does not respect or protect their

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Speaker 2: users at all.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean to be super clear, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: no one is submitting the names of someone else to

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Speaker 1: because they were they deemed them as insufficiently mournful in

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Speaker 1: good faith. So I don't think that anybody going to

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Speaker 1: this website and submitting the name of somebody else is

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Speaker 1: doing so in good faith. However, this is just my

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Speaker 1: blanket warning these websites that spring up to take advantage

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Speaker 1: of some sort of a hot button social or political

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Speaker 1: or cultural moment. Nobody should trust enterprises like that. I

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Speaker 1: think that we should be a lot more careful about

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Speaker 1: where we put our personal information and who we trust

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Speaker 1: and what organizations we trust with that information. But a

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Speaker 1: website that sprang up within twelve hours, certainly that is

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Speaker 1: going to be a website that is cutting quarters because

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Speaker 1: they care more about seizing on that hot cultural moment

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Speaker 1: than they do about caring for the data or the

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Speaker 1: privacy of their users. Just bottom line, And when you

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Speaker 1: go to cancel theehete dot com right now the website

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Speaker 1: is down, it says changes are coming, please check back

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Speaker 1: soon for the new service provider. And I think that

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Speaker 1: really says a lot that this happened. They were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we got to take this down. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: websites like this really give a shit about anybody. They

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Speaker 1: give a shit about money, They give a shit about

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Speaker 1: harnessing people's data and potentially exploiting that data or misusing

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Speaker 1: that data. And I mean I at the kind of

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Speaker 1: person that is trying to submit other people's information because

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Speaker 1: they deem them being insufficiently mournful of Charlie Kirk. That

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Speaker 1: is not the kind of person I think is operating

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Speaker 1: in good faith. However, everybody should be aware and have

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Speaker 1: just a general awareness of the fact that these kinds

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Speaker 1: of organizations and these kinds of sites are not anybody's friend.

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Speaker 1: They're the only person they are looking out for is themselves.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe it sounds weird to tell

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Speaker 1: to give that kind of a warning to the kind

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Speaker 1: of people who would be gleefully submitting other people to

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Speaker 1: be docs to a website like this, And maybe it's

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Speaker 1: it's turnabout is fair play, But I don't think it

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Speaker 1: makes our internet landscape any better when these kinds of

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Speaker 1: operations are able to pop up so quickly, and people

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Speaker 1: are are so caught up in the moment of retribution

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Speaker 1: to others that they will give their information so willy

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Speaker 1: nilly too bad actors, Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: I think everybody would be well served by everyone across

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Speaker 2: the political spectrum being more wary and skeptical just in general.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of bad actors, I have to talk about

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Speaker 1: this Guardian report because it made me sick. So, according

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Speaker 1: to The Guardian, Meta used back to school pictures of

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Speaker 1: schoolgirls to advertise one of its social media platforms to

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Speaker 1: at least one thirty seven year old grown man. That

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Speaker 1: man who ended up reporting these posts first noticed these posts,

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Speaker 1: encouraging him to get threads were being dropped into his

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Speaker 1: Instagram feed and embedding posts that included images of little

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Speaker 1: girls as young as thirteen years old with their faces visible,

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Speaker 1: wearing school uniforms, and in a lot of cases, included

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Speaker 1: their names. How did Meta get images of these school girls? Well,

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Speaker 1: well meaning parents posted them as part of those classics

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Speaker 1: sort of back to school pictures that you probably see

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Speaker 1: all over social media during this time of year. Do

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Speaker 1: you know the photos I'm talking about? Sometimes sometimes the

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Speaker 1: kill will be holding a sign that says where they

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Speaker 1: go to school and their teacher's name, or it's it's

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Speaker 1: a picture of like kids lined up on the stoop

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Speaker 1: of their house ready to go to school in a

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Speaker 1: school's uniform. You know what I'm talking about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course those are classic photos. I have seen

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Speaker 2: a lot of them in private group chats that I'm

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Speaker 2: part of, from like family or friends where their kid

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Speaker 2: is going off to like first day of kindergarten or

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Speaker 2: first day of third grade or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have seen those photos too, and when I

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Speaker 1: was putting together my thoughts about this part of the episode,

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, oh, well, no parent should

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Speaker 1: be posting those back to school pictures. If you want

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Speaker 1: to share them with people, they should be shared in

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Speaker 1: a group chat. I will own that I myself and

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Speaker 1: my a parent. Yet I do have pretty strong feelings

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Speaker 1: about you know, how parents should be posting their kids

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Speaker 1: on social media, which is not at all I think

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Speaker 1: that when you're posting those kinds of pictures, they should

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Speaker 1: be for, as you said, private group chats, private groups

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Speaker 1: of friends and family. When I was putting my thoughts together,

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Speaker 1: I do feel Look, I just want to say, even

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Speaker 1: though for safety's sake, I still think that is the case,

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Speaker 1: particularly when you when you look at the story that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about right now. However, I do think that

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Speaker 1: parents should be able to post totally normal pictures of

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Speaker 1: their kids on social media without worrying those pictures are

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Speaker 1: going to be used by meta in completely inappropriate ways.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to. I am very wary of not

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Speaker 1: wanting to sort of blame the victim because we should

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Speaker 1: have an Internet landscape where parents can can post totally

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Speaker 1: commonplace pictures of their kids and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be used by anybody, not creeps and certainly not corporations

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Speaker 1: like Facebook. But unfortunately that is just not the reality

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Speaker 1: that we live in, especially when you look at what's

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Speaker 1: going on in this story, because according to the Guardian,

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Speaker 1: the parents were completely unaware that Meta's settings when they

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Speaker 1: uploaded these photos permitted Meta to surface these images of

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Speaker 1: their of their minor children thirteen year olds in schoolgirl

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Speaker 1: out that's going to school, two grown men in an

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Speaker 1: attempt to entice these grown men into downloading threads. One

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Speaker 1: mother said her account was set to private, but the

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Speaker 1: posts were automatically cross posting to threads where they were visible.

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Speaker 1: Another said she posted the picture to a public Instagram account.

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Speaker 1: The posts of their children were highlighted to the stranger

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Speaker 1: as quote suggested threads Now. Parents understandably felt like these

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Speaker 1: images were sort of being framed by Meta in a

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Speaker 1: way that was sort of sexually provocative. The father of

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Speaker 1: a thirteen year old who'd appeared in one of these

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Speaker 1: posts said it was a absolutely outrageous because there were

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Speaker 1: images of schoolgirls in short skirts with bare legs or stockings.

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Speaker 1: He said. Quote. When I found out an image of

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Speaker 1: her had been exploited in what felt like a sexualized

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Speaker 1: way by a massive company like that to market their product,

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Speaker 1: it left me feeling quite disgusted. So here's what Meta

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Speaker 1: said happened. It said that it recommended people to visit

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Speaker 1: threads by showing them publicly shared photos that comply with

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Speaker 1: its community standards and recommendation guidelines. Meta says that at

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Speaker 1: systems do not recommend threads shared by teenagers or miners,

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Speaker 1: but because the images of the miners were actually posted

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Speaker 1: on their parents' Instagram accounts, according to Meta, that made

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Speaker 1: them fair game to be used in this way.

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Speaker 2: What a disgusting take, like Meta, over and over they

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Speaker 2: just demonstrate to us how little regard they have for

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Speaker 2: their users for decency of any kind. Like it's just

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Speaker 2: a disgusting They are a disgusting company who will use

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Speaker 2: technicalities to take parents photos of their kids and use

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Speaker 2: that to market their products towards creeps. What disgusting people.

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Speaker 1: A spokesperson for Meta told The Guardian pretty much exactly

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Speaker 1: what you just described. They didn't say, they didn't even

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that this was inappropriate or even like there wasn't

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Speaker 1: even an oh our bed, this was our We had

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Speaker 1: a blind spot here, they said. Quote the images shared

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Speaker 1: do not violate our policies and our back to school

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Speaker 1: photos posted publicly by parents. We have systems in place

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we don't recommend thread shared by

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Speaker 1: teens or that go against our recommendation guidelines, and users

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Speaker 1: can control whether Meta suggests their public posts on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: So to me, that statement is really blaming the parent.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, you posted a back to school picture

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Speaker 1: of your thirteen year old with bare legs that said

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Speaker 1: her full name and where she went to school, and

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Speaker 1: you posted it publicly on our platform, So if you

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Speaker 1: didn't want it to be shown to a thirty seven

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Speaker 1: year old stranger, you shouldn't have done that. It's their

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Speaker 1: statement completely blames the parents and doesn't even give a

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Speaker 1: nod to the fact that, Okay, yes, perhaps you have

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Speaker 1: guardrails in place that are not surfacing the accounts of

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Speaker 1: minors in this way, but you know that parents post

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Speaker 1: these kinds of back to school pictures like not even

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Speaker 1: a nod to the fact that maybe this is less

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Speaker 1: than ideal.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. It's completely blaming the parents, and most

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Speaker 2: perversely implicit in this whole argument is the idea that

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Speaker 2: the parents knew that this would happen, and when they

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Speaker 2: posted the photos, were consenting to allow this to happen.

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Speaker 2: So Meta's position here is that these parents wanted the

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Speaker 2: photos of their children to be served up in this

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Speaker 2: sexualized way. It's so disingenuous and it so betrays the

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Speaker 2: complete lack of even basic care and concern that Meta

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Speaker 2: has for their users.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and listen to this, because one parent, who is

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Speaker 1: clearly not buying what Meta is selling here, really points

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Speaker 1: out that when you look at how her normal content

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Speaker 1: performs on her kind of modest Instagram page, and when

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Speaker 1: you look at how this content of her daughter, her

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Speaker 1: minor daughters back to the school picture performed, clearly Meta

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Speaker 1: there's something going on here. So the Guardian reports the

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Speaker 1: one parent who unwittingly posted the image of her kid

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Speaker 1: said that the image performed much better than her typical content,

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Speaker 1: with two hundred and sixty seven followers. Her Instagram account

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Speaker 1: usually had modest reach, but the post of her child

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Speaker 1: attracts it nearly seven thousand views, ninety percent from non followers,

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Speaker 1: half of whom were over the age of forty four,

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Speaker 1: and ninety percent of whom were men. So she's not

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Speaker 1: in charge of Instagram's algorithm. She's not in charge of

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Speaker 1: determining who her images are shown to and surface to

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Speaker 1: in Instagram's algorithm. The fact that her content generally does

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Speaker 1: not get seven thousand views, is not shown to ninety

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Speaker 1: percent people that she doesn't know, strangers, non followers, and

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Speaker 1: is not generally shown to the majority men who are

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Speaker 1: over forty four years of age. Clearly Facebook is determining this.

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Speaker 1: So to your point that Facebook is saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: the parents wanted their images of their thirteen year old

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Speaker 1: daughter in a school uniform doing back to school to

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Speaker 1: be shown to these to tell you, a bunch of

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Speaker 1: forty year old men, Facebook is doing that. The parents

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Speaker 1: aren't doing that.

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Speaker 2: Facebook is doing that one hundred percent. That's exactly. That's

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Speaker 2: a perfect way to describe it. Facebook is doing that.

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Speaker 2: The parents aren't doing that. Facebook is doing that. They

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Speaker 2: can point to whatever policies they have and say like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this doesn't violate this or that policy, but Facebook is

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Speaker 2: choosing to do that.

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Speaker 1: Another mom who said that a picture of her thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old was used in promotional posts said quote medaged

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Speaker 1: all of this on purpose, not informing us as they

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Speaker 1: want to generate content. It's despicable and who is responsible

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Speaker 1: for creating threads ads using children's photos to promote the

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Speaker 1: platform for older men At every opportunity. Meta privileges profit

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Speaker 1: over safety and company growth over children's right to privacy.

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Speaker 1: It is the only reason that they could think it

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Speaker 1: is appropriate to send pictures of schoolgirls to a thirty

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Speaker 1: seven year old man es bait. Meta is a willfully

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Speaker 1: careless company. Yes, I totally agree with this mom.

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Speaker 2: This story like really has my blood boiling. Like we

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Speaker 2: talk about how shitty Meta is all the time, and

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Speaker 2: they are a very bad company that has done very

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Speaker 2: bad things causing much more severe harm.

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Speaker 1: Than this particular story.

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Speaker 2: But something about the fact that they are taking these parents'

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Speaker 2: photos of their children. These parents are like proud of

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Speaker 2: their children who are going to back to school. It's

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Speaker 2: like a sweet thing and using it in this twisted

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Speaker 2: way and then not even acknowledging that there's anything wrong

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Speaker 2: with that just might windy word for like most disgusting

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Speaker 2: thing we've covered Meta doing on this show, and there

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Speaker 2: have been a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting to me that it's happening on Threads.

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Speaker 1: I am on threads because I am I don't really

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Speaker 1: use X anymore, and Threads is where I sort of

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Speaker 1: scratch that ex Twitter itch and I have a few

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Speaker 1: times now encountered these Threads accounts where every post on

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Speaker 1: this account is a video as a very young girl,

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Speaker 1: and the girls are fully closed, but they are doing

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Speaker 1: things like, oh, they're wearing a skirt and doing a cartwheel,

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Speaker 1: or they're stretching in a kind of way. And as

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Speaker 1: somebody that's been in a lot of these spaces, to me,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is a child. This is an

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Speaker 1: account that is trying to skirt a line when it

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Speaker 1: comes to child exploitation. And so I have whenever I

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Speaker 1: have personally reported a handful of these accounts many times

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Speaker 1: and they never get taken down. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm seeing something that's not there, or I'm being approved,

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Speaker 1: but you just you just know when an account is

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Speaker 1: doing something that they that's that's not cool, that's not good,

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Speaker 1: like you just you just can tell. And when I

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Speaker 1: see these accounts, I can tell this is an account

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Speaker 1: that is not on the level and the fact that

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Speaker 1: I keep reporting it and that I keep seeing it

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not being taken down really concerns me.

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Speaker 1: And I guess I just I think I made this

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Speaker 1: point before, but the fact that all of this is

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Speaker 1: happening against a backdroper. We're all being told that as

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Speaker 1: adults who are trying to navigate the Internet, the Internet

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Speaker 1: needs to be restricted in xyz very oppressive ways so

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Speaker 1: that children can be kept safe. Meanwhile, the biggest social

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Speaker 1: media platforms on the planet can do stuff like this

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Speaker 1: and get away with it, and even when they're they're

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Speaker 1: asked about it can blame the parents. Boils my blood.

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Speaker 1: So I am right there with you, Mike. It is

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Speaker 1: some just really descipicable stuff that I think really shows

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Speaker 1: how far we have come to genuinely giving a shit

436
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: about keeping kids safe online.

437
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: Well, and stay with this account that you talked about

438
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: that is keeps posting this material that is like exploitative

439
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: of children, but that doesn't violate any explicit policies because

440
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 2: the children are wearing clothes, Thanks fucking god.

441
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: Uh.

442
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: It's interesting to juxtapose that against COVID misinformation and electoral misinformation,

443
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: where there's you know, this debate that has been happening

444
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: about whether platforms should restrict it or not, and even

445
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: setting aside the merits of that, it at least makes

446
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 2: sense to me that there is a powerful constituency of

447
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: right wing people who want that information to exist on

448
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: the Internet, and therefore it it does. But when we

449
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: think about this of like wink and nod clothes but

450
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 2: provocative child exploitation material, who is the constituency for that.

451
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: It's not like there's some powerful representatives or like Senate

452
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: committees demanding that Meta keep this on their platform.

453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: They're doing that for them.

454
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: They're doing that to keep selling their product, to keep

455
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: getting engagement, to keep selling ads.

456
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: And it's despicable. It's despicable. I mean, that's what these

457
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: parents are calling out. And when you look at the

458
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: way that Mark Zuckerberg talks about some of their other products,

459
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: like AI chatbots, he has been very explicitly vocal we

460
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: got to pump the gas a little bit if you

461
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: want to gab people be staying engaged on our on

462
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: our platform and stay engaged in our bots. That's why

463
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: they ended up having that internal document that said that

464
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: it was totally aoka if their bots had sensual role

465
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: play with minors.

466
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, one does have to wonder how far Meta can

467
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: take this thing before there is some sort of accountability,

468
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: because it does seem like every other week we're talking

469
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: about something that Meta has done where they are using

470
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: I want to be careful with my words, but like

471
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: material that is in some way exploitative of children to

472
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 2: sell their product that I don't think anybody thinks is okay.

473
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: And you know, they get away with it because they

474
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: are so powerful. But at some point, I don't know

475
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: they are not going to be able to get away

476
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 2: with it.

477
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: I hope.

478
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: I don't know what that point looks like, and I

479
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: hope that they pull back weigh the hell ahead of

480
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: that point. Well, speaking of accountability really quickly, did you

481
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 2: know that YouTube, owned by Google, back in twenty twenty,

482
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 2: they kicked some people off of their platform for things

483
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: like spreading covidness information or twenty twenty elections nihilism, While

484
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 2: Variety reports that a lawyer for Alphabet, the parent company

485
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: of YouTube, is essentially starting a program to welcome those

486
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: creators back. According to this report, they said that the

487
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: Biden administration pressured YouTube into cracking down on content that

488
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: was election or COVID misinformation. This is according to a

489
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: statement of facts from Alphabet, the parent company of YouTube

490
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: and Google, which they said in response to subpoenas from

491
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: the House Judiciary Committee, shared by Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio.

492
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: The letter reads, YouTube's community.

493
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: Guidelines allow for a wider range of content regarding COVID

494
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: nineteen and election integrity, reflecting the company's commitment to free expression.

495
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: YouTube will provide an opportunity for all creators to rejoin

496
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: the platform if the company terminated their channels for repeated

497
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: violations of COVID nineteen and elections integrity policies that are

498
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: no longer in effect. YouTube values conservative voices on its

499
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: platform and recognizes that these creators have extensive reach and

500
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: play an important role in civic discourse. The company recognizes

501
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: that these creators are among those shaping today's online consumption.

502
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: Landing must watch interviews, giving viewers a chance to hear

503
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: directly from politicians, celebrities, business leaders, and more so. If

504
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: you were kicked off of YouTube for COVID misinformation or

505
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: election denihilism in twenty twenty, welcome back. Although guests who

506
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: tried to sneak in under that. I was like, Oh,

507
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: they're letting people back, guests who tried to sneak their

508
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: way back in, and YouTube was like, ah ah not

509
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: you can you guess? Oh this is not in the notes.

510
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm so excited.

511
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: There's two people I don't know what. Who are the

512
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: two people who might have Who are the two people

513
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: who tried to sneak back in here?

514
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: Nick Fuentes and Alex Jones. YouTube was like, we will listen.

515
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: If you are a fucking degenerate scumbag who is profiting

516
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: off of harmful, dangerous lies. Welcome aboard, Alex Jones and

517
00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: Nick Fuentez. Not you not so fast? Good?

518
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: At least they have some standards. Okay, good, keep those

519
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: assholes the hell out.

520
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: So they are welcoming back COVID misinformation spreaders and election

521
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: deniers back to their platform. But guess what is also

522
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: on their platform? You are not going to be able

523
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: to guess. Let me just tell you hyper realistic AI

524
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: generated videos of women being shot in the head. Oh

525
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: my god. So we talked earlier this summer about how

526
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: some folks were using Google's new AI video content generation

527
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: tool VO three to make very racist AI generated videos

528
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: of black women as gorillas that flooded TikTok this summer,

529
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: and now there is an entire YouTube channel of just

530
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: ai generated videos a women being shot in the head.

531
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: The channel named I Gotta Say aptly named woman shot

532
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: Ai started on June twentieth of this year. It posted

533
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: twenty seven videos and had one thousand subscribers, and it

534
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: had more than one hundred and seventy five thousand views

535
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: according to the channel's publicly available data. Now major shout

536
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: out to four or four media for not only breaking

537
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: this story, but also being the ones who had this

538
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: channel taken down, because when four o four reached out

539
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: to YouTube, YouTube took this channel down. A YouTube spokesperson

540
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: told four four that it terminated the channel for violating

541
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: its terms of service and specifically for operating a YouTube

542
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: channel following a previous termination, meaning that this was not

543
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: the first time that YouTube had to remove the person

544
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: operating woman shot AI from the platform. This channel is

545
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: just gruesome. Four or four reports that all of the

546
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: videos posted by this channel all follow the exact same formula.

547
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: It is a nearly photo realistic video that shows a

548
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: woman begging for her life while a man with a

549
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: gun looms over her and then shoots her. Some of

550
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: the videos, they say, have different themes, like compilation of

551
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: video game characters like lower Croft being shot or quote

552
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: Japanese schoolgirls being shot in breast, or sexy housewife shot

553
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: in breast, female reporter tragic end and Russian soldiers shooting

554
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 1: women with Ukrainian flags on their chests. They even have

555
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: a poll where viewers can ask what kind of women

556
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: they want to see be shot next, an Asian woman

557
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: or even a black woman who they describe with the

558
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: N word. How sharing This is truly when people talk

559
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: about AI being the lynchpin of our global economy, this

560
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: is the kind of content they're talking about.

561
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like poisoning entire cities in Tennessee so that

562
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: we can have this content.

563
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: My god, this is horrific. It's horrific. What's also well

564
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: to me is that four or four points out whoever

565
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: is running this account also goes on YouTube and complains

566
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: about the costs. This person said quote the AII use

567
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: is paid per count. I have to spend around three

568
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: hundred dollars per month, even though one account can only

569
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: generate an eight second video three times. The channel's owner

570
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: wrote on a public post on YouTube. So imagine how

571
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 1: many times I generate a video once I upload. I

572
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: just want to say that every time I upload a

573
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: compilation consisting of several eight second clips, it is not

574
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: enough for just one account. I have to spend quite

575
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: a lot of money just to have fun.

576
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: They said, Oh, this poor guy. Wow, he's just trying

577
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: to do this community service of creating this art for

578
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: the world to enjoy.

579
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: I almost sort of it's almost comical that it's like, oh,

580
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: I am making this despicable AI content and consider the

581
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: cost to me. So all of this obviously goes against

582
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: Google's policies, but that has not stopped their tool from

583
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: being used this way. Four or four are actually reached

584
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: out to Google, who said, our gen AI tools are

585
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: built to follow the prompts a user provides. We have

586
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: policies around their use that we worked to enforced, and

587
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: the tools continually get better at reflecting these policies. So

588
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: that really says nothing. That doesn't say anything at all.

589
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that Google is on both

590
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: sides of this, because it sounds like Google is kind

591
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: of implicitly acknowledging that their AI tools were used to

592
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: generate this video.

593
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: Well, the videos have the Google vo three watermark, so

594
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: I don't think it's in distribute that that tool is

595
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: the tool that it's being used to create these.

596
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: I guess if I had to choose where they were

597
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: gonna put their resources to prevent this content, it would

598
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: be on the platform, right, Like the fact that their

599
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: tool created this and they're saying like, oh, well, our

600
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: tool just follows the prompts that people give it. Okay,

601
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: I guess, but it feels to me like the responsibility

602
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,479
Speaker 2: they have for their platform, YouTube, which then surfaces these

603
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: videos to mass numbers of people around the world, is

604
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: much greater, right, Like, they have a much bigger responsibility

605
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 2: there on their platforms to prevent this kind of content.

606
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: And the fact that four h four had to reach

607
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: out to them for them to take it down. At

608
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: least they did take it down. They didn't take the

609
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: path of meta and be like, this.

610
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: Is fine, this is what people wanted. Women. Actually, if

611
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: they don't want to be shot in the head, they

612
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be reporting the news out in public.

613
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: More.

614
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it, Okay,

615
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: So I wanted to quickly talk about this Apple TV

616
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: show that was pulled, so the actress Jessica Chastain. Her

617
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: new show This Thought about homegrown extremist terrorism in the

618
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: United States, was meant to be released today Friday. However,

619
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: Apple TV pulled the show only days before it was

620
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: due to be released, and Jessica Chastain unsurprisingly is not

621
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: Happyestain is also a producer on the show, and she

622
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: put out a statement saying, we are not aligned on

623
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: the decision to pause the release of The Savant. So

624
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: the Apple TV show The Savant that was pulled was

625
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: inspired by a true story, as reported by Cosmopolitan, in

626
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: which Chestain plays an anti extremism operative who infiltrates white

627
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: supremacist forums online to prevent explosive acts of violence. Chestain

628
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: was not only an actor in this show, she was

629
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: also a producer, and unsurprisingly, she was not happy that

630
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: this show was pulled only days before it was meant

631
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: to premiere. In a statement, she said, these incidents, though

632
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: far from encompassing the full range of violence witness in

633
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: the United States, illustrate a broader mindset that crosses the

634
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: political spectrum and must be confronted. I've never shied away

635
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: from difficult subjects, and while I wish this show wasn't relevant,

636
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: unfortunately it is. The Savant is about the heroes who

637
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: work every day to stop violence before it happens, and

638
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: honoring their courage feels more urgent than ever. So I

639
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: was really when I saw this story, I was really

640
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: curious what was going on. It's pretty unusual to pull

641
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: a show that has already done and like ready to

642
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: go the days before it's meant to premiere, and Vulture

643
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: reported that Apple might have pulled the plug because they

644
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: felt cold feet about the climate that we're in currently,

645
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: just realistically, where Trump is suing CBS News successfully and

646
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: tried to sue The New York Times for billions of dollars,

647
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: and as FCC is pressuring media companies about their hiring

648
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: and firing decisions. Vulture writes, it's not a huge leap

649
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: to think that Apple TV plus about to release a

650
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: show that deals with political flashpoints and fighting white supremacism

651
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: might be wary of releasing it, especially if it wants

652
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: to stay on Trump's good side. Whenever the President opens

653
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: up Trude Social or announced as the next tariff. Apple

654
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: TV plus has not commented on the release of the

655
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: sabat beyond its confirmation that the show was postponed.

656
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: It is sad and also not hugely surprising that Apple

657
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: TV would think twice and be concerned that just airing

658
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: this show that addresses the existence of white supremacist violence

659
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: might attract the ire of the Trump administration, given how

660
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 2: aggressively the administration has just gone after critics in all areas,

661
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: especially in media. Yeah, it's scary, but not surprising. I

662
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: don't know, we almost like need a word for that.

663
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, But Jessica Chastain is right. I cannot

664
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: imagine a show that is more prescient and of the

665
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: moment than a show that is about homegrown extremism. We

666
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 1: talked about this in our last news roundup that according

667
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: to the Department which Justice, when it comes to homegrown terror,

668
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: right wing homegrown extremism is the biggest bucket. The Department

669
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: of Justice did scrub that study from their site, but

670
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: that doesn't make it any less true. And I think

671
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: Jessica Chastain is right that if I were Apple, I

672
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: would want to be telling stories right now that are

673
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: about this moment, and whether we like it or not,

674
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: this is a story that's about the moment. Yeah, absolutely

675
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: it is.

676
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I totally agree that there couldn't be anything

677
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: more relevant to the moment, and I hope that Apple

678
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: publishes this.

679
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: I haven't even seen this show.

680
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: And also I sort of resent that, like here we

681
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: are being asked to weigh in about like this show

682
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: that we haven't even seen. It could be a bad show,

683
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: We don't know. It could be a good show, but

684
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: it's just like being dragged into this like us versus

685
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: them discourse to the Trump administration is so good at

686
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 2: promoting it does drive me up a wall that they

687
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: just are able to with their threats and their lawsuits

688
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 2: bully so many people, including enormous media companies that have

689
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: the resources to resist it and really should be resisting it,

690
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: but just like bully them into promoting this fictional worldview

691
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 2: that aligns with how they want the world to be

692
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: that is just a step away from where we actually are.

693
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and you really said it. I obviously have not

694
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: seen this series. But what's obnoxious in addition to the

695
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: idea that these platforms and big organizations that might be

696
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: caving to the Trump administration, if that's what's going on,

697
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: it forces you to root for content and people and

698
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: stories that you have not even seen. You're You're like, like,

699
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: I feel like I have to be like, well, I

700
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: need we need the we need this story now more

701
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: than ever. I haven't even seen it.

702
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: It.

703
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: People who don't want this kind of content to get

704
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: lots of eyeballs. If anything, they should want this content

705
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: to be seen so that people can judge it on

706
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: its actual merits. When you don't let people see it

707
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: and don't let people actually make up their own mind

708
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: about it and judge it by their merits, it kind

709
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: of martyrs the content unfairly. We were talking about this

710
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: with the Jimmy Kimmel thing. I mean, we did a

711
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: whole episode about Jimmy Kimmel. I have not I can't tell.

712
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think I've ever uttered the words.

713
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: We have to watch Jimmy Kimmel tonight. But Trump Trump's

714
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: FCC taking Jimmy Kimmel off the air. I was like,

715
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: and we live, we live in DC. It's they weren't

716
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: playing it. Our ur Sinclair local affiliate was not playing it.

717
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: When I went to turn on the channel where Jimmy

718
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: Kimmel's show was meant to be, it was a very

719
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: it happened to be a very flattering news prodcast about Trump,

720
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: which no surprise there, Trump and I are watching the

721
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: same ABC affiliate. But I don't. I don't want to

722
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: watch Jimmy Kimmel's show. The fact that they were making

723
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: me defended and making me curious to see what they

724
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: have to say, that's really the big travesty here. Yeah,

725
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: it's nuts. Yeah.

726
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: I felt the same way as like, it's my patriotic

727
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: duty to watch Jimmy Kimmel's monologue. What like I'm He's

728
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 2: been on the air for twenty three years. That shocked

729
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: me when I learned that. I don't think I've ever

730
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 2: watched his monologue ever. But I was like, I must

731
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: this as an American, it is my duty to like

732
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 2: protect freedom of speech by watching this monologue, even though

733
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 2: Sinclair Broadcasting is trying to prevent me. Specifically because they're

734
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 2: trying to prevent.

735
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: Me, that's exactly the thing. I was like, like, Oh,

736
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: gotta go to the VPN, like how like, how are

737
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: we gonna watch this? The fact that they were the

738
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: fact that some corporate interest was making it hard for

739
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: me to watch it, I was like, oh, no, I

740
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: have to watch it, even though I have never voluntarily

741
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: or willingly watched a Jimmy Kimmel show in my life.

742
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: It's just one more way that everything is upside down

743
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: and insane right now. It's like hard to keep one's head.

744
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

745
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, rooted, grounded. We're all just trying to

746
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: get by. I don't even know where I'm going with this,

747
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: but I guess I guess I'm watching Jimmy Kimmel now.

748
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the rapture did happen and this is purgatory.

749
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: I have thought that several times. Maybe we all did die.

750
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: Something happened and we're all just that's why things feel

751
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: so weird right now, because this is purgatory.

752
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think you're right. And Jimmy Kimmel

753
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: is on every night. We all have to watch him.

754
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: It is our duty. We're required to watch Jimmy Kimmel

755
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: because it is purgatory.

756
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: Okay. When I was scrolling the news for not negative

757
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: stories to talk about, I found one story courtesy of

758
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: Matthew gall at four or four Media. Shout out to them,

759
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: because I feel like we would not be able to

760
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: do any kind of a podcast if not for four

761
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: or four we are subscribers to become a subscriber. We

762
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: love them, but they published a story that I feel

763
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: was made in a lab for me. We have talked

764
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: about stories where I feel like they were made in

765
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: a lab specifically to make me mad. This might be

766
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: the first story that I feel was made in a

767
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: lab specifically to pique my interests. Will you allow me this?

768
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 2: Oh uh, it's a little unorthodox, but proceed.

769
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: This is me doing my best snl Steffon. This story

770
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: has everything reddit drama. Yes please about a David Lynch subreddit?

771
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: Yes please?

772
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: That is very sorry, Bridget this is not a gay

773
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: enough to the fawn. I'm gonna need you to step

774
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: it up a little bit.

775
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: Oh, this is a story about Reddit drama. Yes please

776
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: about a David Lynch subreddit. Yes please? That is revolting

777
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: because of rules around AI content. Give it to me,

778
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: inject it right onto my goddamn danes. So the moderators

779
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: at the subreddit for the David Lynch show that originally

780
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: aired in the nineties, Twin Peak, started allowing AI content. Mike,

781
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: did you watch twin Peaks?

782
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: I did not watch it when it originally aired, but

783
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: I have watched it three times from beginning to end

784
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: as like a rewatch, and I love it. It was

785
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: a great show that second season, you know, halfway through

786
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: when they got rid of David Lynch, it kind of

787
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: took a turn and like we could do without the

788
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: chess playing subplot, but like it is a great show.

789
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about Twin Peaks. Love it.

790
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: It is great. It is great, And so I will say,

791
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: people who like David Lynch, like myself.

792
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: We are.

793
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: We are weird bunch. I guess saw this put it

794
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: that way, like we're a particular bunch David. People who

795
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: like David Lynch, David Lynch fans, we really like David Lynch.

796
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: So when the subreddit for the David Lynch show Twin

797
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 1: Peaks started allowing AI content in protest, these like very

798
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: very dedicated David Lynch fans started flooding the subreddit with

799
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,479
Speaker 1: AI generated Twin Peaks slop. We'll put some of them

800
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: in the show notes, but they are I almost like them.

801
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: They're so strange. And there are such strange pieces of

802
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: AI slop content about a piece of media that was

803
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 1: already strange in its own way that I almost sort

804
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: of am Michael. This is art all kind.

805
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: Of okay, well, we're going in a different direction out

806
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, that does sound interesting now I kind

807
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 2: of want to see them.

808
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: We'll put some of them in the show notes. But

809
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: so the big question here is did David Lynch fuck

810
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: with AI. It's a little bit in dispute. After Lynch

811
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: died this year, a few interviews and clips and things

812
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: resurface that kind of made it sound like David Lynch

813
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: liked AI, and people really ran with this to make

814
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: the late David Lynch the mascot for AI art and

815
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: pro AI sentiments in art, which to me is creepy.

816
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: Because David Lynch has passed away, he is not around

817
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: to weigh in or say whether or not he actually

818
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: genuinely likes this, whether or not these comments were, you know,

819
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: aligned with how he actually feels. Yeah, I do agree

820
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: with you there.

821
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: I think it is messed up to use a dead

822
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 2: person in like an activist way to advocate for like

823
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: a new technology that doesn't feel right, that does not

824
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: feel like honoring a legacy, that feels like expropriating, especially a.

825
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: New technology that so many creatives and artists have been

826
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: really clear about the fact exploits their work, steals their

827
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: work without credit or compensation. I just don't feel great

828
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: about this, and one of the people who has kind

829
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: of done this is Natasha Leone, who I love. In

830
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: a Vulture piece, they described Natasha Leone, who herself was

831
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: working on an AIFILM production company with her partner, filmmaker

832
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: and entrepreneur Brian Moser. Folks might recall that Natasha Leone

833
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: was sort of called out for this, but then she

834
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: said that this project is sort of meant to be

835
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: a more ethical AI creative project because they say that

836
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: all of their AI is trained on content that creatives

837
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: consented to be used in this way. So this Vulture

838
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: piece says that not long ago, Natasha Leone had an

839
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: opportunity to speak with David Lynch, one of the giants

840
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: of a previous generation of filmmakers and an early convert

841
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: to digital cameras. Before he died, Lynch had been Natasha

842
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: Leone's neighbor. One day last year, Natasha Leone asked David

843
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: Lynch for his thoughts on AI. She says that Lynch

844
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: picked up a pencil and said, Natasha, this is a pencil.

845
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: Everyone has access to a pencil, and likewise, everyone with

846
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: a phone will be using AI if they are not already.

847
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: It's how you use the pencil, he told her. You see, Yeah, we've.

848
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: Had other guests on the show who've made a similar argument,

849
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: you know, making the analogy that AI is like drum

850
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: machines or synthesizers, and that it's just a tool for

851
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 2: making art and that real artists will take it and

852
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 2: run with it and use it to create great art.

853
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm somewhat sympathetic to that, or at least I maybe

854
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: was more so in the past. But we've also heard

855
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: from people on this show who say that that that

856
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: analogy is deceptive because you don't need to rip off

857
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 2: artists to build a drum machine or a synthesizer, and

858
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: that actually that analogy is like oversimplifying in a way

859
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: that really biases towards AI in a way that is

860
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: not great. And so some of those people are you

861
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: that AI is an inherently parasitic technology and that there

862
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 2: is no ethical way to use it for art or

863
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: anything else. Yeah, it's kind of complicated, and you know,

864
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: I could see people coming down on one side or

865
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: the other of it. But again, it feels a little

866
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: weird to be invoking a dead man on one side

867
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: of the argument.

868
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I love Natasha Leone, but I'm a cheerleader.

869
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: Is like queer cinema cannon. However, if you were asking

870
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: for just Bridget's old opinion on this, I do think

871
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: Natasha Leone is being a little bit self serving here.

872
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: I think that when she got some heat for this

873
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: AI production company that she's doing with her partner, I

874
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: think that quoting David Lynch conveniently after he was no

875
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: longer alive to push back right off for any context,

876
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: was a way to add a little bit of indie

877
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: street cred to this project that she was otherwise being

878
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: criticized for. I do think that's a little bit of

879
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: what's going on. And I think the fact that David

880
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: Lynch has become kind of this pro AI in art

881
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: math caught in Death is concerning for me. Full four

882
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: reports that an image in a pro AI art subreddit

883
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: depicts Lynch wearing an open AI T shirt and pointing

884
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: at us the viewer, saying, you can't be punk and

885
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: also be anti AI, AI phobic or an AI denier.

886
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: It's impossible.

887
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: Nothing like somebody in an open AI T shirt telling

888
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: me what isn't isn't punk?

889
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like it. No, that's kind of gross.

890
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: So in any event, the twin Peaks subreddit moderator posted

891
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: an announcement this week that opened the doors to AI

892
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: in the subreddit. So in a now delated post titled

893
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: AI generated Content on our twin Peaks, the moderator outlines

894
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: the position that the sub was a place for everyone

895
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: to share memes, theories, and anything remotely creative as long

896
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: as it has loose strings to the show or in

897
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: this case, its themes. AI generated content is included in

898
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: all of this. We are aware of how AI art

899
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: and AI generated content can hurt real artists. The post said, Unfortunately,

900
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: this is just the reality of the world we live

901
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: in today, and at this point, I don't think anything

902
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: can stop the AI train from coming. It's here the

903
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: soul in the beginning. AI content is becoming harder and

904
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: harder to identify. They also asked folks in the sub

905
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: to be cool. They said, there's gonna be an honor

906
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: system where if you if you post AI content, you've

907
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: got to label it so you know this moderator said,

908
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: you can't stop the AI train from coming. Guests who

909
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: could stop the AI train from coming in this David

910
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: Lynch subreddit? Uh, can you guess?

911
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: Was it the subredditors themselves?

912
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: It was the subredditors themselves. I know that you love

913
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: acts of malicious compliance. I almost think this was a

914
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: kind of malicious compliance issue.

915
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love Reddit so much. I love

916
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: the community on Reddit. Like everybody is so like petty

917
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,240
Speaker 2: and shitty and mean, but in like a really creative way.

918
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: It's It's like perfect for me. It is where I

919
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: want to be on the internet is I know Reddit

920
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: has had problems in the past couple of years, and

921
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: I could certainly complain about things, but the community on

922
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: Reddit is like what the Internet is when it is

923
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 2: at its best in my opinion.

924
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: Oh I agree. And as somebody who has worked on

925
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: platform moderation for many years, people often ask me what

926
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: are some platforms that are that are doing it right?

927
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: I have lost of thoughts about how Reddit is doing

928
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,800
Speaker 1: in this iteration when it comes to things like AI

929
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: content that notwithstanding, and but five years ago I would

930
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: have said Reddit for sure. Yeah.

931
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 2: So back to this story then, So uh okay that

932
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: the moderator posted this note that was like, AI is cool.

933
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: Can't stop the freight train? So how did people respond?

934
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: They really showed what it looks like when no one

935
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: can stop the AI train from coming by flooding the

936
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: subreddit with horrifying AI generated twin Peaks and David Lynch

937
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 1: slop in protest, including horrifying pictures of the series protagonist

938
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: Cooper doing an end zone dance on a football field

939
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: while Laura Palmer screamed in the sky, and many many

940
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: many awful chat GBT generated scripts.

941
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you use the word horrifying so many

942
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: times that I'm like really excited to check this out.

943
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I can't. I can't describe it. People need

944
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: to see it for themselves. I almost sort of feel,

945
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: in the lynchingan way, it kind of it's so bad

946
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: it has flipped back around to is this art for me?

947
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: I'll just say that. So the moderator of the twin

948
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: Peaks I've read it, actually resigned over this. They explained

949
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: what happened in an interview with four or four and

950
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: said that the post that they made about accepting AI

951
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 1: content was not run by other moderators of the team.

952
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: They said it was poorly worded, a bad take on

953
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 1: a bad stance, and it blew up in their face.

954
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: It's viral because that was condescending and basically told the community,

955
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: we don't care that it's theft, that it's unethical, will

956
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: just flare it so you can filter it out. They

957
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: missed the point that AI art steals from legit artists

958
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: and damages the environment.

959
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 2: Well, that's a nice statement of contrition. I guess like

960
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like the moderator who posted that thing realized

961
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: that it was out of step with what the community

962
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 2: wanted and expected, and like legitimately tried to acknowledge their

963
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 2: concerns and wrote an apology that this sounds like a

964
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: nice story.

965
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: I think it kind of is. It does sound like

966
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: that they had been internally debating whether or not to

967
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 1: ban AI content and what to do about AI content,

968
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: and that this one moderator just sort of jumped the gun. Obviously,

969
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: the subreddit reversed course and put out a new statement

970
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: saying that going forward, posts including generative AI art or

971
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: catch abt cell content we're going to be disallowed. But

972
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: I think it's a good example of when people say, oh,

973
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: you can't stop the AI train. I don't think that

974
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: that's really a thoughtful statement. And I think the fact

975
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: that this this it's it's pretty low stakes, but the

976
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: fact that this subreddit rose up and was like, let

977
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: us show you what if you're saying that that we

978
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: just have to accept that AI art is the future,

979
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: let me show you what that future actually looks like,

980
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 1: and you tell me if that's the future that you

981
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: actually want for this community.

982
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a nice example of organizing in a creative

983
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: way for community to democratically enforce the standards that it

984
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: wants to exist for itself. And so bravo David Lynch,

985
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 2: community or whatever whatever subredded this was.

986
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: I think David Lynch would be proud. I mean, who

987
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: can say, dudes did okay? Before we go, I did

988
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: want to just make one quick announcement, which is, do

989
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: you know those podcast where they'll do mail bag episodes

990
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: where it's it's an episode where we answer your questions.

991
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: I want to do one of those. I don't think

992
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: we've ever done on We've been on the air since

993
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, that's five years. I don't We've gotten a

994
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: slew of new listeners, new listeners, thank you, we love you,

995
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: and old listeners, Thanks for rocking with us. We love

996
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: you too. But people might have questions. People might want

997
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: to know who we are, why we do what we do.

998
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't really talk a ton about anything involving my

999
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: actual offline life, so people might have questions about who

1000
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: the hell I am why they should listen to me.

1001
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: If you are listening and you have questions, whether it's

1002
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: about me, our team, how the show comes together, why

1003
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: the show exists, or things about things that are happening online,

1004
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: things that you want to know my takes on our

1005
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: big wide Internet and social media landscape and ecosystem. Let

1006
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: us know. I want to do a mail bag episode,

1007
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't want to do it where

1008
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, we've got on a vacation coming up,

1009
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: and I got to scram something together. Let me just

1010
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: go through random emails that we've gotten. I want to

1011
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: seed actual good questions, and if we don't get good questions,

1012
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: we don't have to do it. And if people don't

1013
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: want to do a mail back episode, we don't have

1014
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: to do that either. What do you think? I think

1015
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: it's a great idea.

1016
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: We do get some great emails from you know, some

1017
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: really thoughtful uh, listeners who often they're like sharing interesting

1018
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: stuff with us, and you know someone who respond I

1019
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: apologize that we aren't able to respond to all of them.

1020
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 2: But like people write in with really interesting things to say, uh,

1021
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 2: but not atome questions. So I think this is a

1022
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 2: good idea, bridget I think let's invite listeners to write

1023
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: in with whatever questions they have either.

1024
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: Oh, and it doesn't have to be a question if

1025
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: you just if you, because people will send this emails

1026
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: and unless they exuplicitly say I want this to be

1027
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: read on the podcast, I won't. I will assume that

1028
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: people don't want it to be read on the podcast.

1029
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: But if you do want it to be rid of

1030
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: a podcast, even if it's a question, it's just something

1031
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: you want out there, I'll read that. What should we

1032
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: give people like a deadline? Because I feel like that

1033
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: motivates me to make things happen.

1034
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: I don't have deadlines. I don't see anything.

1035
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: Let me pull up the calendar. Yeah, let's pull up

1036
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: the calendar. Producer over here, Okay, how about Okay, today

1037
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: is the twenty fifth. We're recording on the twenty fifth.

1038
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: By the tenth of October. If you've got an email

1039
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: that you specifically want engaged with on the podcast in

1040
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: an episode, should us an email that comes late, that's

1041
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: also fine because I am also not going to deadlines,

1042
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 1: but we want to hear from you. So the tenth

1043
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: would be, that's a soft deadline.

1044
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: That's a hard deadline. I'm gonna I'm gonna pull producer

1045
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: Rank here say it's gonna be a hard deadline. I

1046
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: think it's a reasonable one. So yeah, right in. By

1047
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: October tenth, it gives you almost like it's like a

1048
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: full two weeks.

1049
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, right in.

1050
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 2: We would love to hear from each and every one

1051
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 2: of you. Listeners are the best. Thank you so much

1052
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: for listening and for allowing us to do this show.

1053
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: You know, I for me, this is the ability to

1054
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: do this show is like one of the more gratifying

1055
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: things I've ever done in my professional life. And it's

1056
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: so touching that listeners want to listen to it week

1057
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: after week. So thank you very much.

1058
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. I know it's cheesy at the end of podcasts

1059
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: where the host just gushes about the listeners, but it

1060
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: truly it's the reason I do this. I wouldn't like

1061
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: it's you all. I am so lucky that people listen

1062
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: to this show. I am so lucky I get to

1063
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: make this show. I'm so lucky I get to work

1064
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: with you, Mike, Joey, Tary, Jonathan, our whole team. I

1065
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: cannot believe I get to do this. I cannot believe

1066
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: anybody listens to this show, listens to what we have

1067
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: to say. But I'm so glad that you do. And

1068
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be doing any of this without you. And

1069
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm I don't say that in the sort of way

1070
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: that people say it on podcasts, but I genuinely mean it.

1071
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: It really does mean so much, And especially when things

1072
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: are hard, it's it's hard we're in these hard times,

1073
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: or it's hard to find things to latch onto that

1074
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: don't make you feel like flinging yourself off of a building.

1075
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: And for me, it is the listeners and it is

1076
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: this podcast.

1077
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I want to give people a prompt

1078
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: because I think that might help facilitate some emails, because

1079
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 2: I want.

1080
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: To get a lot of them. What's your okay? Yeah,

1081
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: this is we're doing this in real time. So I

1082
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: kind of brung this on you, Mike. So I've impressed

1083
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: that you had a prompt ready to go.

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01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 2: What is one thing about the Internet that like brings

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01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: you joy, gives you hope, makes you feel good?

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01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 3: Oh?

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01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: I love it?

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01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

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01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: Okay, well hopeful, semi hopeful. Mail bag episode comings and

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01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: as well, doesn't have to be hopeful. We'll take whatever.

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01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: We'll take whatever you got. Give us your emails, we'll

1092
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: read them on the show. We'll do a mailbag episode.

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01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening, Mike, Thank you for

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01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: being here. We will see you on the Internet. Got

1095
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just

1096
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: want to say hi? You can read us at Hello

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01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for

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01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls

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01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. It's

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01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed. Creative Jonathan Strickland is

1101
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

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01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: Michael Almato is our contributing producer. Edited by Joey pat

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01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help

1104
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For

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01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts,

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01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.