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Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, we're back.

2
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Speaker 2: We're black, We're brown. It's Tiffany.

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Speaker 3: Guys, it's Mandy.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of rando, but I think I'm going

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Speaker 1: to for you know, Valentine's Day is coming up, and

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Speaker 1: I secretly think like Superman told me he didn't care

7
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Speaker 1: if I changed my last name. But I think he

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Speaker 1: does care because I think I caught him on the phone, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, not ear hustling, but ellel the walls are thin,

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Speaker 1: and I think that like he because he was like, nah, babe,

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Speaker 1: keep your name, you know, like I don't, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't care, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: But I think he does care.

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Speaker 1: So I think for Valentine's Day, I'm going to surprise

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Speaker 1: and be like I'm applying for a name change.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Like is it a formal application like with Social Security?

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Speaker 4: Is that what you mean?

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Speaker 2: I don't even knows.

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Speaker 1: There's just some like I was like, it's funny because

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Speaker 1: it made me think of it, because I mean, not

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Speaker 1: just you're hustling him.

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Speaker 2: But there was this ad. They came up with my

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Speaker 2: ig feed and a friend of mine used them. It's

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Speaker 2: like this you.

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Speaker 1: Pay like one hundred and fifty Bucks and like they

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Speaker 1: take care of all the whatever paperwork and whatever for you.

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Speaker 1: So I think I'm just going to do that because honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to have to figure out all these things.

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Speaker 1: So but I'm gonna I'm going to keep it'll be

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Speaker 1: a hyphenated name and then because I'll still professionally be

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Speaker 1: Tiffany Eliche because I feel like it's too late to

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Speaker 1: kind of change that now, you know, but at least

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Speaker 1: I'll be like personally Tiffany Leche his last name, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, how romantic. I changed my name on Facebook

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Speaker 3: and I.

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Speaker 2: Was like there you go, Oh did you did you

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Speaker 2: take on his name? Like like.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean?

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Speaker 3: Like not really, I haven't contacted any government agencies, but

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Speaker 3: I'll put it on some mail and sometimes I use

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Speaker 3: a cell phone number and then put my name on

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Speaker 3: it like Santos, you know, just so.

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Speaker 2: What do you want? You know? And it's not even

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Speaker 2: that I didn't want to change my last name.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna lie that. The thought of paperwork

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Speaker 1: was like, oh God, did I have to get a

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Speaker 1: new everything license?

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Speaker 2: Past world? Who has the time?

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Speaker 3: See, I don't think it's worth all that, But I

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Speaker 3: think what matters more. Is like, so I think my

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Speaker 3: husband does like appreciate it because during the house stuff,

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Speaker 3: just to not confuse anybody working on the house, you know,

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Speaker 3: I went with his last name for all of the

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Speaker 3: you know, all the vendors and whatnot. But you know,

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Speaker 3: when I was cutting those checks, that says my last

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Speaker 3: name on it, and I think that's fine presenting as

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Speaker 3: the last name is the thought.

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly too. And then also too, you know,

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Speaker 1: we welcome a kid. I don't want to be the

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Speaker 1: only one without.

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Speaker 2: The last name up in the house.

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Speaker 1: Like, hey, you know one of these one of these

65
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Speaker 1: round round pigs doesn't fit with the square holes.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, did you catch the Grammys this weekend?

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Speaker 3: See my girl Licia Keys doing an amazing job.

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Speaker 2: I it was really good.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I was like at a conference speaking, so I

70
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Speaker 1: never do you have to watch TV in the hotels?

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Speaker 1: I never do, but anyway I didn't, but I heard

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Speaker 1: it was actually really good.

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Speaker 3: Of course I watched TV and hotels hotel rooms like.

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Speaker 3: I never had cable for a long time, so whenever

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Speaker 3: I was at a hotel, I was like, ooh, fixed

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Speaker 3: a rupper, like I ever just watched HGTV for whatever, I.

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Speaker 2: Never do because you know what it is. I am

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Speaker 2: one of those. I'm like the old lady that can't

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Speaker 2: figure out the remote. You know, look like your mom

80
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Speaker 2: and your aunt was so usually I'm like soap back.

81
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Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, you as the press the

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Speaker 1: green button, then the blue button, the up and down, the

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Speaker 1: left and it right. I'm like, see, that's why I

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Speaker 1: just call you because all these buttons it used.

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Speaker 2: To be on back in my day.

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Speaker 3: Well, the Grammys were really good. I mean they got

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Speaker 3: I guess the big headline was that so many women

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Speaker 3: performed and so many women also won awards. And last year,

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Speaker 3: like someone high up in the Grammy's land had said

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Speaker 3: that in response to not very many women being represented,

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Speaker 3: was like, well they need to step up. So so

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Speaker 3: it was nice to see so much girl go powa

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Speaker 3: and like Michelle, it was kind of confusing. At the

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Speaker 3: top of the show, they had Alicia's hosting and I

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Speaker 3: love her, but then she had like five famous women

96
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Speaker 3: come out and tell them like basically say what music

97
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Speaker 3: meant to them, and that included Lady Gaga. Makes sense,

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Speaker 3: she was a musician, and it was Jennifer Lopez and

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Speaker 3: then Alisha who I'm forgetting someone. Michelle Obama was like

100
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Speaker 3: the surprise guest. People lost their minds.

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Speaker 4: But then Jada Pinkett.

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Speaker 3: Was there one I was like she what why? But

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Speaker 3: I mean, like we alla, but it seems one of

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Speaker 3: these things does not belong. But yeah, it was cool,

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Speaker 3: it was cool, and yeah it was just a really

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Speaker 3: it was a fun night. I feel like Alicia made

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Speaker 3: the show. I don't know if I would have watched

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Speaker 3: if it hadn't been Alicia as the as the as

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Speaker 3: the host. But yeah, cool. So what conference for you at?

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Speaker 2: It's called the IF Conference. My new mentor.

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Speaker 1: Then I tell you about my mentor, the one who

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Speaker 1: I think I mentioned her, the one who owns the

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Speaker 1: jewelry company like she's got. Her name is Jessica, Jessica Hoenagger.

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Speaker 1: She owns this jury company called New well it's not

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Speaker 1: just jewelry, but a company called Noonday and oh and

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Speaker 1: d a y. I met her at this other conference

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Speaker 1: and we were talking and I just happened to mention.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: She asked me what I was, what business I had,

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Speaker 1: and I told her and she was telling me about

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Speaker 1: her business and it's very similar in its I guess

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Speaker 1: in its mission.

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Speaker 2: But her mission is I mean as far as like

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Speaker 2: wanting to help people.

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Speaker 1: So her mission is that she goes around world and

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Speaker 1: finds vulnerable populations of women and you know, and pays

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Speaker 1: them to do whatever kind of like local artists and

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Speaker 1: craft things and pays them well things that they do.

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Speaker 1: And and then women here, it's kind of like almost

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Speaker 1: like avon. Women here then can can sign up to

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Speaker 1: be an ambassador to Noonday and then sell it. It

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Speaker 1: started because she she was doing mission work in Rwanda

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Speaker 1: and and you know, we all rid of the Rwanda

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Speaker 1: genocide not too long ago, and it left a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids without parents, and so there was a little

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Speaker 1: boy she wanted to adopt.

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Speaker 2: And then the recession hit.

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Speaker 1: That recession, I tell you blessing and a curse, and

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Speaker 1: so the money that she had set aside was basically

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Speaker 1: gobbled up during the recession and so she didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to do because she really wanted to adopt this

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Speaker 1: little boy. And so what happened was some of the

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Speaker 1: people that she kind of connected with in Miwanda said well,

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Speaker 1: what if we, you know, donate some like crafts and

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Speaker 1: things to you and then you can sell it and

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Speaker 1: you know, get the money to pay for the adoption.

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Speaker 1: So that's what she did. And then her friends were like, well,

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Speaker 1: where'd you get this? I want to sell some stuff too.

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Speaker 1: She's like, no, I'm just selling it, you know, just

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Speaker 1: so I can you know, this is just a fundraiser

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 2: So I can go through with the adoption.

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Speaker 1: But people just kept talking about because the stuff was

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Speaker 1: really beautiful, and she thought, well, maybe this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be a business. So she made it up to adopt

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Speaker 1: her son and she started a business. And as we

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Speaker 1: were talking, I'm like, this is beautiful because her thing

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Speaker 1: is she really wants to to eradicate moder and day

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Speaker 1: slavery because so many it's largely women that she gets

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Speaker 1: the crafts from, and so many of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: are forced to work in brothels or sex trade or

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Speaker 1: just dangerous situations, and they them being able to create

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Speaker 1: these crafts already like women. I bought this bracelet from

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Speaker 1: a certain collection called the Storyline Collection, and all of

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Speaker 1: the women who made those bracelets, they were from this

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Speaker 1: brothel in South America, and already over ten of those

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Speaker 1: women have been able to leave the Brahmafel and just

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Speaker 1: do this full time. And so it's just dope to

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Speaker 1: be able to wear something that's beautiful but also know

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Speaker 1: it's something beautiful. And then she told me that her

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Speaker 1: business is the fastest growing direct to market jewelry business

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Speaker 1: in the world and.

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Speaker 2: She's won all these awards.

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Speaker 1: After I came home and I googled her and they

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Speaker 1: crossed over the twenty million dollar mark and an annual

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Speaker 1: gross revenue, and I'm like, what, So, here's somebody who

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Speaker 1: was doing good work, having good people, but making amazing money.

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Speaker 2: And so I was like, you're my new mentor, because that's.

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Speaker 3: What's called one of the business.

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Speaker 2: And we should have her on noon and oh and noonday.

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Speaker 1: She's just such a good person, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I meet someone and you're like, she's just such a

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Speaker 1: really kind and good person who really cares about the world.

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Speaker 2: But still such a boss.

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Speaker 1: I told her, like looking at her as like what

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Speaker 1: I hope to be in like ten years, like this

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Speaker 1: big boss that still has maintained like your integrity and

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Speaker 1: like really wanting to help people and keeping that first.

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Speaker 1: And so she asked me that the conference last minute

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Speaker 1: couldn't find I guess somebody for like a finance panel

191
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Speaker 1: until she asked me to come.

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Speaker 2: So I did. That's what I did last weekend.

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Speaker 1: Everyone there, like her sunshine just has spread everywhere. And so,

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Speaker 1: I mean my sister Tracy, who is the ultimate skeptic,

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Speaker 1: is like she is like so dope, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I know, right, just like I don't know.

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Speaker 2: She radiates goodness from within and God, hope, you know,

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Speaker 2: hopefully this is weird.

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Speaker 1: I mean I believe so because you know, just her

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Speaker 1: energy from the inside. She just you know, just to

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Speaker 1: see someone who is dedicated to helping make the world

202
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Speaker 1: better but it's still running a super super successful business

203
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Speaker 1: because you know, you worried that like at some point

204
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Speaker 1: I start to grow, Am I going to have to

205
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Speaker 1: sacrifice one for the other? And looking at Jessica and

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Speaker 1: where she is, the answer is at least at the

207
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Speaker 1: eight figure mark. No, you know, yeah, so, And like

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Speaker 1: I said, it was, it was. It was nice IF conference.

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Speaker 1: It was very Christian need the IF conference, and I

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Speaker 1: believe in God, So it was I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I know you're from set down South.

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Speaker 2: Where are we going with us? No?

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Speaker 4: No, no, no.

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Speaker 2: What I was gonna say is that because you know,

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Speaker 2: in the Northeast.

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Speaker 1: I'm used to, like because I went to like a

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Speaker 1: majority like white church, so I'm used to churches you know,

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Speaker 1: with white folks it's a certain kind of way, and

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Speaker 1: the churches with black folks it's a certain kind of way,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: And so it was very interesting because.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, i'd really experienced Christianity where it looked

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Speaker 1: the same for black folks and white folks in the South,

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Speaker 1: you know, like very like gregarious and you know. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, it was an interesting experience to see,

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Speaker 1: like it's almost like church in the South is Baptists

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Speaker 1: like that kind of energy no matter what your racist,

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Speaker 1: and I had not really you know, so that I.

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Speaker 3: Think that's I think it depends on where you go.

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Speaker 3: Like I was definitely at white churches that were very

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Speaker 3: like hoity toity and you know, very like prim and proper.

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Speaker 3: But I think, yeah, Baptist church in the South, you could.

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Speaker 3: I mean there are country women, like country white women

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Speaker 3: who are I don't know if you ever saw It's

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Speaker 3: like a good example is like you ever seen that

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Speaker 3: black Jeopardy skit on SNL. I'm just like laughing thinking

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 4: I had, You're gonna send you this one.

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Speaker 3: Keenan Thompson plays Alex Trebek's character, and anyway, they always

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Speaker 3: have like really funny categories like oh no, she didn't

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Speaker 3: for four hundred dollars And anyway, they had one time

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Speaker 3: Tom Tom Hanks played like a country white dude, and

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Speaker 3: you know, he showed up as one of the contestants

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Speaker 3: with like three other three other black contestants and they're like,

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Speaker 3: who's this white guy. He's not gonna get any of

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Speaker 3: these answers right, and he got everything right.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 3: But I'm telling you some country people, like when you

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Speaker 3: get down to the Deep South, like country is country

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Speaker 3: and white black country, and you know, that's that's a

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Speaker 3: that's a storyline you don't usually ever see because it's

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Speaker 3: always like the white you know, Southern people hate black

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Speaker 3: Southern people. But sometimes it's like they are kin folks,

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Speaker 3: and it's more like an economic it's it's more like

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Speaker 3: a socioeconomic status, you know, connection than a racial one.

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Speaker 3: So it's like they grow up in the same area

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Speaker 3: at the same you know, level of income. And then anyway,

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Speaker 3: I'm getting all in the in the weeds here.

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Speaker 1: But but it was just very it was very interesting.

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Speaker 1: I definitely was like, oh, oh, oh, we have a

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Speaker 1: church church. Yeah, but it was interesting, and I say,

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Speaker 1: everybody was super nice, and so I never even heard

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Speaker 1: it's called the IF I IF conference.

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Speaker 2: Mandy.

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Speaker 1: It was like six thousand people in the audience and

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Speaker 1: nearly a million people watching like over like streaming.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 2: So enough about me. We have an exciting guest.

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Speaker 1: Yes video, Mandy, you secured in super exciting guests and

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to interview her.

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Speaker 2: Let's jump in, Yeah, let's jump in.

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Speaker 3: So let me tell you about our guests to we'll

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Speaker 3: take a quick break and then we'll come back with

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Speaker 3: our guests. But her name is Ada Harvey Wingfield. She's

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Speaker 3: a professor of sociology at Washington University in Saint Louis.

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Speaker 3: And what caught me it's not that I knew her beforehand,

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Speaker 3: but I came across this article I actually mentioned as

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Speaker 3: my Brown Break a few weeks ago in the Harvard

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Speaker 3: Business Review and did a really good job kind of

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Speaker 3: delving into the ways that black workers, especially in like

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Speaker 3: corporate America, are often failed and it's not by any

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Speaker 3: wrongdoing on their part, but by failings from the organizations themselves,

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Speaker 3: and I think at a time where you're seeing you know, Starbucks,

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Speaker 3: you know, and every other company rolling out diversity training

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Speaker 3: when they have a really embarrassing public you know, incident happened,

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Speaker 3: like a racial incident happened. I just feel like it

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Speaker 3: was this article was kind of refreshing to kind of

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Speaker 3: sit back and realize that there's you know, there's things

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Speaker 3: that companies are doing wrong, but there's ways that they

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Speaker 3: could do it a lot better to better support black workers.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of what she writes about in this article,

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Speaker 3: which I'll include in the show notes, just really struck

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Speaker 3: a chord for me. I invited doctor Wingfield to join

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Speaker 3: the show and she'll talk about her article and some

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Speaker 3: of the ways she's found employers can actually hinder the

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Speaker 3: progress of black workers in America. And she also has

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Speaker 3: a new book coming out this June, which we'll talk

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Speaker 3: about as well.

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Speaker 2: Yes, come on into the let's.

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Speaker 3: Okay, save it. We'll take a quick break and come

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Speaker 3: back and talk to doctor Ada Harvey Wingfield.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: So, if you are like me and Mandy Well mines

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Speaker 1: are like Mandy, have you ever worked in an environment

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Speaker 1: as a woman, especially as a woman of color, and

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Speaker 1: you felt a little uncomfortable, You felt like your organization

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Speaker 1: was not really doing right by you, or just just

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Speaker 1: wasn't enough of you.

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Speaker 2: Well, we had.

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Speaker 1: And amazing guesterday, Doctor Adia Harvey Wingfield. She wrote this

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Speaker 1: article for the Harvard Business Review because We're fancy, you know,

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Speaker 1: called how organizations are failing Black workers and how do

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Speaker 1: we do better?

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Speaker 2: Welcome doctor Adea.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for letting me be a little creepy fan

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Speaker 3: nerd and reach out to you out of the blue.

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Speaker 3: Hi be on my.

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Speaker 4: Podcast No Problem. Great.

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the things I loved about the story

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Speaker 3: itself was that I feel like this is the kind

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Speaker 3: of thing that we all know to be true, but

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Speaker 3: we don't talk about it that much, Which is, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of things working because I well, a

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Speaker 3: lot of the times you just try and grin and

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Speaker 3: barrett and pretend like there's nothing keep stopping you from success.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's the way in America is just to

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Speaker 3: pull yourself up by your bootstraps and succeed. But you know,

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Speaker 3: you point out three different ways in this article that

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Speaker 3: you have found in your research that you know employers

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Speaker 3: are actually setting up black workers in some ways to fail.

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Speaker 3: So I wondered if we can just kind of walk

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Speaker 3: through some of the reasons that you outline in your

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Speaker 3: in your article and then happy to talk more about

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Speaker 3: the research that you've done into this issue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I'm happy to.

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Speaker 5: So the article is a kind of summary or are

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Speaker 5: pulling together of a lot of studies, Some are my

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Speaker 5: own and some are ones that colleagues have done to

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Speaker 5: make exactly the point that you just mentioned. There's definitely

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Speaker 5: a disparity for black workers, particularly in professional jobs. But

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Speaker 5: a lot of times these disparities are pronounced and made

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Speaker 5: worse by things that organizations are doing. A lot of times,

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Speaker 5: I think this is unwitting, and I think that it's

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Speaker 5: useful for organizations to know, and particularly managers to know

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Speaker 5: about the research that's out there about ways that they

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Speaker 5: can create changes to make them places that are more

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Speaker 5: suitable and welcoming.

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Speaker 4: For black workers.

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Speaker 5: So one of the things that I talk about in

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Speaker 5: the article is that organizations can change and be more

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Speaker 5: welcoming for black workers if they stop relying on social

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Speaker 5: networks for hiring. And this has become really common in

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Speaker 5: our current economy, again, particularly for professional jobs. Many managers

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Speaker 5: rely on their networks, on people that they know to

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Speaker 5: point them towards jobs, and on the face of it,

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Speaker 5: that doesn't sound like a big deal, but the problem

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Speaker 5: comes because most of our networks, particularly for white Americans,

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Speaker 5: are pretty ex white.

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Speaker 4: So when managers are networks are relying on.

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Speaker 5: People that they know to point them towards jobs, especially

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Speaker 5: professional ones, that can unwittingly end up reproducing racial segregation

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Speaker 5: in the workplace.

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Speaker 4: So that's an issue.

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Speaker 5: A second thing that I point to is that organizations

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Speaker 5: often have adopted a model where they don't focus as

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Speaker 5: explicitly on racial and gender diversity anymore. And that might

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Speaker 5: sound weird because we know now that many companies do

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Speaker 5: talk about wanting to diversify, but the research shows when

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Speaker 5: we dig into what that actually means, a lot of

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Speaker 5: companies employ a really broad and.

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Speaker 4: General definition of diversity.

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Speaker 5: So that leaves them in a position where they can

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Speaker 5: say that they're focusing on diversity, but the managers who

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Speaker 5: are actually tasked with this focus on diversity very broadly defined,

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Speaker 5: so it can include regional diversity, diversity of thought.

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Speaker 4: Color.

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Speaker 5: A good question color managers about this, and the thinking

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Speaker 5: behind that is that if we have a lot of

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Speaker 5: different viewpoints among a certain group, then we've got diversity

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Speaker 5: of thought. So the problems with that are that diversity

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Speaker 5: of thought may not be as diverse as you think.

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Speaker 5: And that also doesn't take into consideration the way that

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Speaker 5: systemic processes exclude racial minority men and women of all races.

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Speaker 4: Right. But this is how you end up with statements

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Speaker 4: like one.

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Speaker 5: A few years ago where a vice president for I

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Speaker 5: think it was Apple at the time made the remark

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Speaker 5: that you can have twelve blond haired, blue eyed white

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Speaker 5: men in a room and they'll still be diverse because

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Speaker 5: they have different experiences that I'm.

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Speaker 3: Too, yeah, point that out, I mean, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Right, And so that's what I mean, that's what managers

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Speaker 5: refer to when they talk about diversity of thought. That

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Speaker 5: doesn't equip if they're approaching this diversity from that standpoint.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't give them.

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Speaker 5: The tools to think about strategies and programmatic management that

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Speaker 5: they can do to address the ways that black people

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Speaker 5: in particular often are marginalized and sidelined in organizations because

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Speaker 5: if you're not actively trying to.

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Speaker 4: Address these things, they don't get solved. So that's the

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Speaker 4: second issue.

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Speaker 5: The third issue that I mentioned in the article is

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Speaker 5: that organizations often end up in situations where managers often

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Speaker 5: implicitly but not always subtly, decide who they think best

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Speaker 5: fits into certain organizational roles. And what happens for that

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Speaker 5: is that when people are interested in applying for jobs

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Speaker 5: or people people are interviewing for jobs, subtle biases make

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Speaker 5: it seem as though black workers are suitable for lower

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Speaker 5: status jobs but not really that acceptable for higher status,

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Speaker 5: high ranking positions. So this is where we hear a

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Speaker 5: lot of people talk about culture or fit.

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Speaker 4: Right, there's something about this candidate. I just don't know

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Speaker 4: if they fit. I can't put my finger on it,

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Speaker 4: but they just don't seem quite right for this organization.

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Speaker 5: And those types of strategies again work to the disadvantage

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Speaker 5: of black workers in organizations, again often for professional jobs,

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Speaker 5: because these are the types of positions where subtly and

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Speaker 5: implicitly there's a message that black professionals are an oxymoron

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Speaker 5: and that black workers don't fit in these types of

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Speaker 5: high status jobs. So I wrote the piece to draw

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Speaker 5: attention to these issues and to make the point that

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Speaker 5: not only do they exist, there also are strategies for

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Speaker 5: change there are things that research has shown that organizations

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Speaker 5: can do to try not to focus in those ways

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Speaker 5: and not to rely on these patterns that we know

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Speaker 5: from research are disadvantageous to black workers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what are some of the positive ways employers can

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Speaker 3: lift up and help black workers succeed, you know, once

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Speaker 3: they're already in a position at a job.

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Speaker 5: Right, great question. So, generally speaking, research does point to

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Speaker 5: some solutions. You mentioned affinity groups in particular, there's some

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Speaker 5: research that suggests that affinity groups can be useful for

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Speaker 5: helping underrepresented.

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Speaker 4: Workers feel a little bit.

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Speaker 5: More socially supported in these types of environments. That's inconsistent

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Speaker 5: across occupations. So, for example, a colleague of mine has

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Speaker 5: studied women working in the geosciences industry and has shown

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Speaker 5: that for women in that particular field, affinity groups don't necessarily.

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Speaker 4: Have the same reward.

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Speaker 5: But other research shows that for black workers in particular,

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Speaker 5: affinity groups can be really helpful in helping to feel

444
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 5: more of a sense of support and solidarity, especially in

445
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 5: environments that are sometimes unwelcoming. Interestingly, although we hear a

446
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 5: lot about diversity and diversity training, research has shown that

447
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 5: diversity trainings in particular, are not really as helpful as

448
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 5: we might think. And I have some colleagues who have

449
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 5: shown that diversity trainings have not been shown to actually

450
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 5: show any marked improvement in improving the numbers of underrepresented

451
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,640
Speaker 5: groups in high status positions and organizations.

452
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 4: And my own.

453
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 5: Research has actually shown that diversity trainings have some adverse

454
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 5: consequences for black professionals. They can lead to emotional alienation,

455
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 5: particularly in context where black workers feel as though their

456
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 5: white colleagues are free to share their emotional responses, but

457
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 5: that they, as black professionals, have to conceal or suppress

458
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 5: their own responses to racist things that their colleagues might

459
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 5: end up saying in those settings. So diversity trainings themselves,

460
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 5: while still fairly.

461
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 4: Widespread, are not really that effective.

462
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 5: Research does show, however, that when organizations actually commit to

463
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 5: establishing explicit measures and tasking someone with response stability for

464
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 5: creating more racial diversity, then that actually is where we

465
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 5: see improvement. So, in other words, if organizations have the

466
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 5: resources and offer the support to a manager and make

467
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 5: it clear to that manager that your job is contingent

468
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 5: on getting this done, perhaps unsurprisingly.

469
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 4: People react Accordingly. People don't want to lose their jobs.

470
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 5: So when organizations give managers this institutional support, when they

471
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 5: give them the resources, and when they make it clear

472
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 5: that the focus has to be not on diversity of thought,

473
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 5: not on diversity of region, not on diversity of opinion,

474
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 5: but that they want to actually see changes in terms

475
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 5: of racial and gender.

476
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: And ethnic diversity. That's when we actually do see the

477
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 4: needle move.

478
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: When you're at a higher status in your organization and

479
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: you're a person of color, you're like, you're more likely

480
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 3: to have more influence versus someone who's in a lower

481
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 3: ranking position who's trying to point out or maybe too

482
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 3: afraid to point out, hey, we could be doing a

483
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: better job recruiting or you know, supporting people.

484
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 4: Right.

485
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 5: That actually was one of the findings that came out

486
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 5: of my book project. I don't know if we want

487
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 5: to talk about that already, but I'm happy to if.

488
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: That's for the book. What's the book called.

489
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 5: It's called Flatlining, Race, Work and Healthcare in the New Economy.

490
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 5: It's out this summer, right out this summer. It should

491
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 5: be out this late June, early July, so coming out

492
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 5: pretty soon.

493
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, that was one of the.

494
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 5: Interesting findings that came out of my book that when

495
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 5: we talk about how workers try to make changes in organizations,

496
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 5: what I found from studying healthcare workers, doctors, nurses, physician assistants,

497
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 5: and technicians is that how workers try to make changes

498
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 5: depends on where they're situated in the organization, and that

499
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 5: for doctors, because they had a lot of status, and

500
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 5: because they had a lot of relatively speaking, a lot

501
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 5: of power and an ability to make changes, they were

502
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 5: more likely to try to address the structural procedures that

503
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 5: lead to black black workers being underrepresented.

504
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 4: In the medical profession.

505
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 5: That's not as easy for say, technicians, who don't occupy

506
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 5: the same structural position and don't necessarily have the same

507
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 5: ability to request and try to institute far reaching change. Now,

508
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 5: one additional thing I'll say, though, is that when we

509
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 5: talk about workers who are at different levels and the

510
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 5: occupational strata, it's important to be mindful that just bringing

511
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 5: in one person or even two people.

512
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 4: Usually is not really an effective solution.

513
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: There's a recent report about this that came out from

514
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 5: mckensey and lean in where they refer to people who

515
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 5: are that underrepresented as onlies, and what they show is

516
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 5: that people who are onlies deal with a lot more harassment,

517
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 5: they think about quitting a lot more. They feel a

518
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 5: lot more alienated and isolated. This is a problem that

519
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 5: some organizations still make this thinking that, well, we can

520
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 5: hire one or we can hire two, and we've done

521
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: our job now. And like you just said, Mandy, the

522
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 5: thinking then becomes, now that we've got one, we can

523
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 5: tap them to do a lot of the diversity work,

524
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 5: or we'll put them on this committee where they'll.

525
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 4: Just solve all of our problems.

526
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 5: But that's not really an effective strategy, and the research

527
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 5: has shown that it's not effective because one person usually

528
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 5: isn't equipped to make the sort of systemic change necessary

529
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 5: for organizations to really be restructured to be more viable

530
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 5: for all people.

531
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: If you are the only Sometimes it feels like you

532
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: put internal if you put pressure on yourself to do

533
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: things that aren't necessarily asked of you. But that stress that'll, that'll, that'll,

534
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 3: you know, stress you out, Like I need to be helping.

535
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 3: I am in a position where I should be helping

536
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: and I need to do more, but it's not always

537
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like you really can make an impact.

538
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: And I think that maybe a bit of you know

539
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: why some people, if you're the only one in your job,

540
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 3: think about leaving as you do feel kind of like

541
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: powerless to change it. But you see the problem.

542
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: So doctor ly, I just find this your work and

543
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: your research to be really interesting. So I have a unique,

544
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: I guess perspective because I so I run a company,

545
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: and I would say eighty five to ninety percent of

546
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: the women that work with us or the people that

547
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: work with us are women, and of those women, almost

548
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: all of them, not even almost all of them, all

549
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: of them are women of color. And so it created

550
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: like an environment like no other. So I never worked

551
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: in corporate America before I started my business.

552
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: I was a school.

553
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: Teacher, so I didn't it's hard for me to track

554
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: the difference. But it's like so many of the women

555
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: that come to me and work with me.

556
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: Had such traumatic experiences in corporate America.

557
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: I was just talking to my COEO and she was like,

558
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: she's having a hard time sometimes adjusting too that she

559
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be afraid to admit that she doesn't

560
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: know how to do something, or like afraid when you

561
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: know she needs a little more time, or just like

562
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: no one's taking credit for the work that she did,

563
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: and it's just been such an adjustment and just so

564
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: interesting to see like kind of like this trauma that

565
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: these women are bringing with them and from some of

566
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: the corporate not everyone, but some of them, some of

567
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: the corporate guess experiences that they've had, and to work

568
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: in a company where you know that that's not the issue.

569
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: I mean, not that we don't have other issues, but

570
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: you are surrounded by.

571
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: Women of color, and we help women of color, you know,

572
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: and the women of color are in positions of power,

573
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: and a woman of color owns the business, you know.

574
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, I mean, unfortunately that doesn't surprise me what

575
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 5: you're saying. I wish that it did, but it's so

576
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 5: consistent with what we know from from the research.

577
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 4: And another additional point.

578
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 5: That I would just add is that the challenges of

579
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 5: being that only one and in the minority.

580
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 4: Not only are a problem for those.

581
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 5: Two are experiencing it, but they It sends a very

582
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: particular message to others as well, and I think in

583
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 5: a weird way, it reinforces this idea that people of color,

584
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 5: black people in particular, don't belong right, because it takes

585
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 5: me back to this idea of tokenism that people who.

586
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: Are the only one or the only one.

587
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 5: Of a particular underrepresented group become representative of that entire group,

588
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 5: and usually adverse ways. They are in a position where

589
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 5: if they make if they have a success, then the

590
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 5: success is seen as unusual for someone of that group.

591
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 5: If they make a mistake, the mistake is seen as

592
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 5: an example of why organizations don't hire people who are

593
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 5: members of that group. So for the Black women that

594
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 5: you're describing who are coming from corporate America, chances are,

595
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 5: based on the numbers and the statistics that we know,

596
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 5: they've probably been very underrepresented, and they've probably been experiencing

597
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 5: a great deal of this phenomenon of tokenism. They become

598
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 5: seen as people who stand out, who are different, who

599
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 5: don't blend in, who don't fit with the majority of

600
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 5: the group, people whose mistakes are then used to justify

601
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 5: why we don't hire black women for these types of jobs,

602
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 5: and people whose successes then conversely don't become viewed as

603
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 5: a reason why we should hire more Black women for

604
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 5: these types of jobs, but become an example of unusually,

605
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 5: become an example of an unusual outcome rather than something

606
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: that's representative and we know from virtually all the research

607
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: out there that this just takes an a more toll.

608
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 5: It takes an emotional toll, it takes a social toll,

609
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 5: it takes a psychological toll, it takes an economic toll,

610
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: because these have consequences for how workers are able to advance,

611
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 5: how they are paid with their wages are and for

612
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 5: keeping other workers out of these positions where there could

613
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 5: be collective power and number that could try to change

614
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 5: these structures.

615
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, can we talk a little bit about how it's

616
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: it shouldn't all the onus shouldn't always be on black

617
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: workers to fix problems at diversity. And like, one of

618
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: the things that I've respected about some of the leaders

619
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: I've worked with over the years is there's often, you know,

620
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: white managers or white executives who will acknowledge it's not

621
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 3: just a black people or a minority problem. It's a

622
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: universal problem for all of us to fix as a team.

623
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: So even if you're not a person of color, you

624
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: should be making diversity a priority when you're recruiting or

625
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: you know, in the way that you're writing. You know,

626
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: for me, it's all about in journalism, it's often even

627
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: journalists are guilty of writing to a specific audience or

628
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: assuming things about black people in their story, and it's

629
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 3: up to you know, editors, even if they're not black

630
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: or a person of color, to call out those types

631
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: of things. And yeah, it's I and you know the

632
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: way that you're kind of seeing some managers step up

633
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: and take on their responsibility. That's like the only way

634
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: I feel like there can be change unless, you know,

635
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: unless organizations are willing to just you know, immediately even

636
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: out the like level of the playing field and hire

637
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of people of color. It's got to be

638
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: that way, Like people who aren't minorities have to stand up.

639
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 5: No, absolutely, I mean, this is one of the points

640
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 5: that I make.

641
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: In my book.

642
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 5: The focus of the book is on how economic changes

643
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 5: are having an impact on black professionals, and like I said,

644
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 5: I focus specifically on workers in the healthcare industry. And

645
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: one of the things that I find is that these

646
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 5: economic changes are having an impact on the way these

647
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 5: workers encounter racism. But that also is structured again by

648
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 5: where they fall in the organizational hierarchy.

649
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 4: But these workers are also trying to change.

650
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 5: The organizational structures that they inhabit different ways that also

651
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 5: depend on the jobs that they have.

652
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 4: But the point that I really try to.

653
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: Drive home and the conclusion, is that a big part

654
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: of the problem is that these workers are doing so

655
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 5: much labor without any real organizational support, and in a

656
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 5: lot of cases they have the perspective and the feeling,

657
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 5: sometimes explicitly sometimes implicitly that organizations are actually relying on

658
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 5: them to do this work without any support. In other words,

659
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 5: they know that the senses that managers and organizations know

660
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 5: that for black workers, it's very important to try to

661
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 5: create more equitability, it's important to try to do this

662
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 5: diversity work, so the senses that companies and managers just

663
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 5: let them do it, but that this doesn't also overlap

664
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 5: with or lead them to getting any sort of institutional

665
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 5: support for.

666
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: The work that they're doing. And to me, that's the

667
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 4: biggest problem.

668
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 5: It's not necessarily an issue that you have black workers

669
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 5: who are doing a lot of labor to try to

670
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 5: change companies and to make them more relatable and more accessible.

671
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 5: But you can't ask people to do this work on

672
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 5: top of the things that are actually part of their

673
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: real job descriptions and not compensate them for it, or

674
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 5: not recognize that they're doing it, or worst case scenario,

675
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 5: penalize them for the fact that they're doing all of

676
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 5: this extra work that takes.

677
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: Away from the jobs that they were hired to.

678
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 5: Do, and then end up firing them or not promoting

679
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 5: them because they've been doing all of this extra labor.

680
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 4: But I think that's the situation.

681
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 5: That we're in right now with so many organizations, that

682
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 5: there's just the expectation that organizations want to meet their

683
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 5: bottom line, they want to make their money, they want

684
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 5: to say that diversity is important, so they bring in

685
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 5: one or two black people in certain jobs.

686
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 4: But then the implicit expectation becomes.

687
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 5: Now that you're here, solve our problems, fix things up,

688
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 5: make it better, and we'll just allow you to do that,

689
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 5: and we'll allow that to become.

690
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: An additional part of your work. But what we're not

691
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 4: going to.

692
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 5: Do is take these responsibilities on ourselves. What we're not

693
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: going to do is tie your compensation to the fact

694
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 5: that you're doing this extra work. What we're not going

695
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: to do is offer you any additional recognition. I don't

696
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 5: know if either of you watch Insecure, but it kind

697
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 5: of reminds me of the scene at the end of

698
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 5: I think season two when Molly the lawyer, the character

699
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 5: who's a lawyer, basically was trying to angle for more money,

700
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 5: and her job offered her the certificate of appreciation, told

701
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: her they will put it on the web page.

702
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: Right, what is that?

703
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 4: That's crazy, that's that's not a pay raise, that's empty recognition.

704
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 4: And I think that was a key part of what

705
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 4: they were.

706
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 5: Trying to communicate in that episode, that this is all

707
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 5: too often what happens to black workers in these organizational settings.

708
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 5: And it's a little bit different because Molly wasn't necessarily

709
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: going out of her way, or they didn't show Molly

710
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 5: necessarily going out of her way to do a whole

711
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 5: bunch of work to try to change the organization. But

712
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 5: they certainly had that episode in the first season when

713
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: they wanted her to talk to the other younger black

714
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 5: woman attorney and help her to fit in.

715
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: So again.

716
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 5: One so again, you're still having her do this extra work,

717
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 5: you're not compensating her for it, and you're offering her

718
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 5: a certificate that goes on the website, which is not

719
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 5: what she requested and does not add up to equal pay.

720
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 5: It's a fictional show, I get that, but I felt

721
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 5: that that was very reflective of a lot of black people,

722
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: right exactly exactly.

723
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 4: It was very reflective of what a lot of.

724
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 5: Black women encounter in these types of corporate settings because

725
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 5: organizations simply in many cases are not making the moves

726
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 5: to spread this work around more broadly and more widely.

727
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 5: And I think that goes to the point that Tiffany,

728
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 5: I think you were just making and I think Mandy

729
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 5: you were saying this too. If this doesn't become something

730
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 5: that becomes universally shared and widely seen as the organization's job,

731
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 5: it falls to black workers in ways that end up

732
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 5: maintaining inequality because they're still doing more work and they're

733
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 5: not getting compensated for that work.

734
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

735
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: One of the things you talk about too, And you know,

736
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: something that I found is like, sometimes when you're the

737
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: only one when things are happening that impact your community,

738
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 3: like the past brutal few years in terms of just

739
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 3: unarmed people of color being killed by police officers, for example,

740
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: or everything happening in the White House. You know, right now,

741
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: it's nice to turn to someone that it works because

742
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: we spend so much time at our office, you know,

743
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: for those of us in the ninety five world with

744
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: your colleagues, and it's nice to turn around and feel

745
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: like someone understands that there's things happening in the bigger

746
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 3: world that could impact you during your work day. And

747
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: what have you found in terms of like workplaces that

748
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: are going out of their way to open up a

749
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 3: safe space. I hate to use that, like really cliche term,

750
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 3: but in safe space for colleagues to just like talk

751
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: about what's happening in the world that could be impacting

752
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 3: them if it has nothing to do with work, but

753
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: could be impacting them because of their race, or their

754
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: ethnicity or their creed.

755
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 4: Sure. Sure.

756
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 5: One of the most interesting examples that I think of this,

757
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 5: that I think is happening right now is with Price

758
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 5: Waterhouse Cooper. I believe they are still doing this initiative

759
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 5: that's called the Color Brave, which I believe is supposed

760
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 5: to be a contrast to being color blind. And I

761
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 5: know that this got started by the CEO after a

762
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 5: spate of highly publicized police shootings of black men. I

763
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 5: believe this would have been maybe twenty fifteen or so,

764
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 5: but it was the year that Alton Sterling was killed

765
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 5: and then within twenty four hours Filando Castile was killed.

766
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 5: Both were killed by police.

767
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 4: Neither of them. Well, I believe in Alton Sterlin's case,

768
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 4: he was not armed.

769
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 5: In Fialando Castile's case, as we know, he was a

770
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 5: registered licensed gun owner who was still shot by police

771
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 5: despite not breaking any laws. So I believe my understanding

772
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 5: was that the CEO of Price Waterhouse Cooper came to

773
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 5: this recognition similarly to what you just described, that you

774
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 5: can't in this day and age, have a diverse workforce

775
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 5: but act as though that diversity doesn't have implications for

776
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 5: how workers are dealing with and interacting with each other

777
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 5: and coping with things that are happening in their lives.

778
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 4: And we see some recognition of this.

779
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 5: I think when we talk about the ways that companies

780
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 5: need to be more attuned to work family policy and

781
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 5: work life balance to use another kind of cliche phrase, right,

782
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 5: But when organizations talk about this in most cases, I

783
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: think they're referring to gendered issues that we want to

784
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 5: be mindful of how workers have families, and to think

785
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 5: about how we can institute flexible work hours and institute

786
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 5: policies that allow people to balance their life outside of

787
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 5: home with their life at home. They're excuse me, their

788
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 5: life outside of work with their life at work. I

789
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: think that it's necessary if we're going to really equip

790
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 5: our workforces for the twenty first century, which is going

791
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 5: to be a lot more multiracial, a lot more demographically diverse,

792
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 5: we've got to.

793
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 4: Do the same thing when it comes to race.

794
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 5: We have to acknowledge that we live in a racially

795
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 5: stratified society that has meaning and that has consequences for

796
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 5: black workers, and that we can't pretend that work life

797
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 5: balance means that for black workers, being black somehow has

798
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 5: no meaning or significance, or that that meaning or significance

799
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 5: just drops away when you enter the office.

800
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 4: That's not true. We know that's not true. That doesn't even.

801
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 5: Make any sense to think that way, right, So, if

802
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 5: organizations are really going to be more diverse in a

803
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 5: way that meets the needs of their employees, things like

804
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 5: this Color Brave initiative to me sound really intriguing and

805
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 5: interesting because they do take into consideration the whole person,

806
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 5: and they take into consideration the whole person in ways

807
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 5: that acknowledges that if we're talking about black workers, part

808
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 5: of that whole person means people who are coping with

809
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 5: the consequences of ongoing racial inequality and that that's going

810
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 5: to have an impact on them both at work and

811
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 5: outside of work.

812
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: Well, doctor Wingfield, thank you so much for joining bran Ambition.

813
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: You guys can check out her book coming out this

814
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: June twenty nineteen called Flatlining Race, Work, and Healthcare in

815
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: the New Economy.

816
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 4: That's right, Thank you so much.

817
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That was an awesome, awesome interview. But

818
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 2: now it's time for booster to break for all my family.

819
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: Will you boost? Will you break? What will you do? Mane?

820
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god?

821
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: That was so good and I didn't even plan it freestyling.

822
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Honestly, I don't know where these gifts come from.

823
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 2: So I just be a jingle writer.

824
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: God just us with your presence.

825
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: No, So are you going to boost? Are you going

826
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: to break?

827
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 3: I want to do a boost. I want to do

828
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 3: a boost because I can't wait for twenty twenty and

829
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 3: the Democratic race is already just like the most girl

830
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 3: power race in history. I think we have a record

831
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: number of women putting their hat in the ring for president,

832
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: which is really really awesome. So what you know, no

833
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: matter who, probably what party you know you're affiliated with

834
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 3: or whatever, I think is still really dope to see

835
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 3: the impact of this feminine wave. You know, post Trump,

836
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 3: post Trump America is female America. So I'm just I'm

837
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: excited the odds are in our favor to have a

838
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: woman president.

839
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: Oh we shall see. But yeah, so that is a

840
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: really good boost. My boost is a little less serious.

841
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: Actually, I want to boost in Divisil line.

842
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: They need to sponsor our show. So, Mandy, you saw

843
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: me when we went to go take for Yahoo Finance,

844
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: and you didn't even notice that I had my visil

845
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: line in, right.

846
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually shocked because I have noticed it

847
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 3: in people before, especially people who accidentally eat with them

848
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 3: in and then you really notice.

849
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 4: But yeah, I could not tell. They look really good.

850
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not gonna tell.

851
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 1: I guess they opened up with like, well, they gave

852
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: me nine They call them like trades or whatever.

853
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 2: So that's just the set of the uppers and lower.

854
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: So I had nine weeks because every week you have

855
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: to switch out the old ones to put in the

856
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: new ones.

857
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: So I'm at the end.

858
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: The one I'm wearing now is my last one. I

859
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: have to go this week to get my next set.

860
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: But honestly, I'm seeing such a difference I because I

861
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: have to have them for a year and a half,

862
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: so I just assumed it was going to be really

863
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: slow progress. But it looks like it's I'm not gonna

864
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: lie like, I'm like.

865
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Wow, this has only been nine weeks.

866
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: I can only imagine at the end of the year

867
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: and a half there's been a tremendous change. And so

868
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean everyone from my sister so my husband's like, babe,

869
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: Like I could really see a difference. So I have

870
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: to say I was a little on the fence about

871
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: a divisil line because I'm like, is it gonna be weird?

872
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: Is it going to feel weird? Am I going to

873
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: lose my you know, my trades. I'm pretty careful with

874
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: them that I haven't thus far. Are they gonna be uncomfortable?

875
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: And the first couple of days it's weird, but then

876
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: you get used to them. But I have to say

877
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 1: I like them because I had braces as a kid,

878
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: which we're not all that comfortable, and I find this

879
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: to be like a really light lift. And so yeah,

880
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 1: I feel like in Biline, if you're listening, you should

881
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: sponsor the podcast because.

882
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: How else does it cost?

883
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: Oh?

884
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: Well, no, because I mean, because it's considered cosmetic, even

885
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: though Superman has really great insurance.

886
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: They're like, girl, you tried it, you want to have

887
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: straight sea.

888
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: So these were about so I think it was about

889
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: forty eight hundred, but I got like some extra No, no,

890
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: it was no, I think it was fifty two hundred,

891
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: but but I opted to have appointments they call them.

892
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: I forget that you can choose to have your appointments

893
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: during low traffic times, like which is like after a

894
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: certain time in the morning or before a certain time

895
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: in the evening. And if you do that, they like

896
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: they took money off. And then I also chose to

897
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: pay in full. So I think it was supposed to

898
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: be fifty two hundred, but I ended up paying like,

899
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: I want to say, forty eight hundred with them with

900
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: the discounts that I that I used, and so yeah,

901
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: so it wasn't And when I asked my other friends

902
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: who you know, also had I have a bunch of

903
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: friends who had in visiline, and they were like, yeah,

904
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: that it was about the five thousand dollars range for them.

905
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm writing in alignment with what

906
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: everybody else kind of paid. But to me, it's worth

907
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: it because you figure for a year and a half

908
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars, divide to.

909
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: Buy what is that twelve eighteen months?

910
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 3: I feel like I can justify any purchase, don't. Yeah,

911
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: if you just take that and you think about this

912
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 3: and then divide that by three, then really you're saving

913
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 3: money for really.

914
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: Actually used to be paying them.

915
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 4: I am.

916
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like that.

917
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, my little brown boosts even though it's not.

918
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: Brown, but it is a boost.

919
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: My guilty pleasure is I still buy laser hair removal

920
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 3: groupons like all the time, because once you do laser

921
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 3: Haro Movis, You're like, I'm never gonna not I'm just like,

922
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: I'm just like not gonna shave anymore.

923
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 4: It sucks.

924
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: And what's funny is like on Groupon, you know, you

925
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: buy a six pack of laser hair removal and it's

926
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: only for new customers. So I've literally thank god I

927
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 3: live in New York because there is a like a

928
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 3: skin care spa on every street corner. So I've just

929
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: been bopping around the city. I think I've been to

930
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: at least different, like eight different places over the years,

931
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: and I just do it once a year and it's

932
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 3: like one hundred bucks. And that's my little you know,

933
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: my little beauty, my little beauty splurge. So if you

934
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: guys want to, I mean, I don't feel like you

935
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: should ever pay full price. That's the one thing groupon

936
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 3: is still relevant for for me is like the healthy,

937
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 3: like the beauty stuff, spa stuff.

938
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 1: But yes, yes you should never pay I mean spot.

939
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: You can find so many awesome spots on goupon. So

940
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: for a laser hair moval is it for like the year?

941
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: Does it last that long?

942
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: It depends on where you're getting it. So some of

943
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 3: my hair, I mean, I won't go into too detail,

944
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: but if it's hormone, I mean, we're all friends here,

945
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 3: we're all women here, right, so some of your hair growth,

946
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: it's hormonal and she and your hormones do whatever the

947
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: hell they want, whenever the hell they want. So if

948
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 3: it's hormonal, it's tougher. You have to kind of do

949
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: maintenance so like once every other year. Everyone's different, so

950
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 3: there's not like one perfect way. But if it was

951
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: something you know, not really usually linked to hormones, like

952
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: leg hair or like underarm hair, then you could probably

953
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 3: do that, you know, once and be okay. But everybody's

954
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 3: body is different. But because of how cheap group on

955
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 3: makes it, like I get treat I get like a

956
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 3: six pack for a hundred bucks or you know, I

957
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: even got a year supply for like two hundred bucks

958
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: one time. And because it's so cheap, I don't mind,

959
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 3: you know, paying for it again and again if I

960
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 3: have to every once in a while. Before that, it

961
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: was like, you know, you could spend hundreds of dollars

962
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: for one session, but it's way more cheap.

963
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: Yep, I have to say, you know, I have to.

964
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: You know, my my African I don't know.

965
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 3: You know, I went to college with that.

966
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't go anywhere, right, It's not that I don't

967
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: go any here, but definitely not you know, nothing to

968
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: write home about.

969
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the European side of me. I guess

970
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: I'll blame it on that line of hairy woman and

971
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 3: my family. Shout out to group On.

972
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 4: I love that.

973
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: Tiffany Hattish is there spokesperson.

974
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: Also, yes, have you ever if you have not got

975
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: a chance brown a bit your listeners, google Tiffany Hattish

976
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: group on story.

977
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: I think it's on. I think it was Jimmy Kimmel. No, no,

978
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 2: who's the other guy. Yeah, Jimmy Fallon. You have to listen.

979
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: It is so good when she tells her group On

980
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: and Jada Pinkett story, you have to like.

981
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: It's just such a that's how she got the.

982
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 4: To pay her.

983
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: That was like free app free advertised, such a good

984
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: story and like it'll have you laughing.

985
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 2: And so you haven't listened to it.

986
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 3: Ye should definitely And also Black Jeopardy and SNL. I'm

987
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: gonna send you. It's so funny.

988
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, week I want to get.

989
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: Anyway. Great, Well that's our show.

990
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: Well now what's kind of well are you goodad one?

991
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 1: All right, bye guys, bye, have a good week.