Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.
Speaker 1: We need to get some mustache wax as part of
Speaker 1: the restaurant. Daniel Rope can keep his mustache. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: fresh out. I had some right there. Oh that would
Speaker 1: that would be spectacular. Yeah, too bad for those of
Speaker 1: us that have some stage you look great. We should
Speaker 1: get Misty a fake mustache. Feel so out of place.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like an outsider. Yeah, that would be
Speaker 1: That would be really good. You can wear one of
Speaker 1: those turkey beards. Good I feel. Let's get the fake mustache.
Speaker 1: Misty gets a mustache for sure. Hey, welcome, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the bear Gara Surrender. Fantastic to see everybody here today.
Speaker 1: It's it is it is. Okay. Envision envision yourself in
Speaker 1: nineteen and ninety nine. Okay, and think about talking about water.
Speaker 1: Had my water pure fire stoke exactly that's serious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm still ready for y kN entire container full of
Speaker 1: peno beans. My mom stop? My mom got a pound,
Speaker 1: you got a stop? You got a contagner full of
Speaker 1: what peno band piano pinto no poo as well be
Speaker 1: saying acorn. I do say acorn sometimes. Yeah, yeah, get
Speaker 1: out background my family. I don't want to know. Okay,
Speaker 1: back to my original question here, Um you guys a
Speaker 1: question and ran I don't even hear a question. I
Speaker 1: think it was. What I was trying to get at
Speaker 1: was Okay, if you're going from one to two, it
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like that big of a leap. Okay, But
Speaker 1: imagine I wrote two today for the first time, wrote
Speaker 1: it on a piece of paper for whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: dating something, you did this, or I'll show you what
Speaker 1: I did. Look in that little note right there one,
Speaker 1: and I thought, godly, can you imagine in the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 1: you know, I would have been a teenager thinking about two. Okay,
Speaker 1: stop that, stop that thought, and now think about five?
Speaker 1: Do you see my point? Brent's open for next week.
Speaker 1: Point being time seems to be continuing to progresses, So
Speaker 1: happy New Year, Happy New Year. I don't see what
Speaker 1: kind of this questions that we don't get to answer.
Speaker 1: He actually answers for us. It feels a little bit
Speaker 1: like do you remember deep thoughts with Jackie? A little bit?
Speaker 1: A little bit jack had except not funny. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure the Addex guys and Rusty Johnson would have given
Speaker 1: me this much flak. You're because they only spent a
Speaker 1: week with you. We've known you since nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Dealing with the fallout I think I've met you in
Speaker 1: nineteen would have been no. Twenty three years ago, the
Speaker 1: longest out of prison by man, I know, and be
Speaker 1: done with it. Well, wow, I said all that to
Speaker 1: say Happy New Year. We have one mystery guest with us.
Speaker 1: If you were if you really followed Burgaris, you could
Speaker 1: probably guess who it is. You could guess the patterns. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can see the patterns, the pattern and here's the patter,
Speaker 1: and you can guess. Be thinking, if you listen to
Speaker 1: the last podcast, which you should have, the fulsome part four,
Speaker 1: the Miss the Unsolved Mystery of Fluted Stone, you there
Speaker 1: would have been a guest on there that's here today.
Speaker 1: I'll introduce him here in just a minute, as is
Speaker 1: our custom. But to my left. Dr Daniel Route, great
Speaker 1: to see you. Happy to be here. Really you considered
Speaker 1: shaving your beard after you saw mine. Well, your mustache
Speaker 1: does look really good. That's the nicest thing you ever
Speaker 1: said to me. I know, and I really hate to
Speaker 1: say it. I'm begrudgingly said it looks good. A little
Speaker 1: too good. Okay. To your left is our mystery guest
Speaker 1: who will come back to to his laft, Josh Lambridge spillmaker. Hello,
Speaker 1: Happy new year, to see you my My biggest desire,
Speaker 1: my thing to see this year is the render when
Speaker 1: we all get together and that chair just breaks on Daniel,
Speaker 1: It's that's gonna be good. To your left back for
Speaker 1: wherever he came from, Brent Reeves. Hello, great to see Brett.
Speaker 1: It's good to be seen. Everybody heard Brett's holiday greeting.
Speaker 1: We appreciated party. Oh I hate to miss that more
Speaker 1: than anything. And the cookies. I don't guess nobody saved him.
Speaker 1: We all got one one and then no more. We
Speaker 1: did leave an empty chair for you last night. I
Speaker 1: took a picture of it. That was good. We've been
Speaker 1: traveling man for the holidays and all that been to
Speaker 1: Texas and meeting folks meeting render people, fans of the
Speaker 1: render down there. David McDaniels a good guy. You think
Speaker 1: there was a lot of us talk to him here,
Speaker 1: absolute wonderful guy, good family guy. Had a couple of
Speaker 1: coffee with him here. I bought it. So the next
Speaker 1: one you send me the bill. Can you imagine that
Speaker 1: means when I go through Texas, he's buying. You've been
Speaker 1: cooting hunt a lot. I've been cooing hunting a lot
Speaker 1: and went last night. Man, it's like twenty five degrees.
Speaker 1: Michael Roseman suns apot lights calls me. He says, how
Speaker 1: are you going hunting to night? To move my theory?
Speaker 1: And so I'm going hunting tonight the trier coon, he said,
Speaker 1: what my theory is that they don't They don't And
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a theory, he said, he gets
Speaker 1: like twenty eight degrees. Coons don't move. They do move
Speaker 1: that What they do is they move around in the
Speaker 1: in the dent. Try when you're dog trees on them,
Speaker 1: but they ain't coming out. So there would be there
Speaker 1: would be a different temperature regiment for different parts of
Speaker 1: the world because there's parts of the coon range where
Speaker 1: twenty eight degrees. If they didn't move below twenty eight,
Speaker 1: they would never move. But down where Brentson, which is
Speaker 1: further south than even here, that's pretty during cold and
Speaker 1: it does matter to the recent weather patterns. So we've
Speaker 1: had this super warm December and then it got super
Speaker 1: duper cold. And that's what I remember. When I first
Speaker 1: started coon hunt in high school. Jeff Cunningham, who was
Speaker 1: who got us, me and my other buddy coon hunting.
Speaker 1: We wanted to go coon hunting on a real cold
Speaker 1: night and he was like, Clay, these are the nights
Speaker 1: that those coons eat all year round so they don't
Speaker 1: have to leave the den. And we didn't believe him,
Speaker 1: and we went coon hunting, and we rarely treat anything
Speaker 1: was super cold for the region. My thing was, I like,
Speaker 1: I just enjoy. I fixed me a thermoset of coffee.
Speaker 1: I'd loaded the dog up and we hit the woods
Speaker 1: and I said, out there in the do is something
Speaker 1: great about hunting when it's cold and it's clear, man,
Speaker 1: you could hear forever. And when he did, when he
Speaker 1: did strike and opened up and tree, it was he
Speaker 1: was probably three sixty yards away. I think I looked
Speaker 1: on my tracker man, it sounds like he was just
Speaker 1: right there. So yeah, it sounded good. You know, sound
Speaker 1: does travel different on a cold night. Crisper clear good
Speaker 1: Man Brandt. Gotta go coon on to Brent's left. My
Speaker 1: boss and scheduling manager who I would like to request
Speaker 1: to coon hunt with Brent for my wife, miss Nice
Speaker 1: to be here. I definitely don't want that job. I quit.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be the boss, but good with that one.
Speaker 1: I don't want the scheduling manager. That would be kind
Speaker 1: of stressful. Hey, Missy went squirrel huting with me the
Speaker 1: other day. It's a yah. I would like to can
Speaker 1: I speak for you? Listen, you guys. I haven't shot
Speaker 1: a big old shotgun like that a whole lot since
Speaker 1: I was a little girl. I remember having a good shot, Brent,
Speaker 1: will remember from bear Camp when you and Isaac were
Speaker 1: trying to teach me that I have a left eye, dominance,
Speaker 1: crazy in the head, whatever. So so I'll just be honest.
Speaker 1: I'm not a great shot. I haven't shot a lot
Speaker 1: of squirrels like ever. So Clay tells me, hey, come
Speaker 1: with me and we're going to have a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: This is and he you know, when he takes the boys,
Speaker 1: he gets some candy like some of our kids with me.
Speaker 1: First off, no, I was expecting candy and you said
Speaker 1: I could speak freely. Second second, hold off, he actually
Speaker 1: did candy. I don't want to say I want candy exactly.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So then we go and we shoot. I
Speaker 1: can't even remember. I just remember that clayt started mocking me,
Speaker 1: like actually mocking me and hold his tongue. Not just
Speaker 1: mocking me while shooting, but afterwards, when we would be
Speaker 1: around other like expert shooters, he would start mocking my
Speaker 1: I mean just just I would walk up and I
Speaker 1: didn't know what was happening, but there was lots of
Speaker 1: giggling and it had to do with me, and it
Speaker 1: had to do with that gun. And I told Clay,
Speaker 1: these are this is the worst. What is it? Our three?
Speaker 1: Is that what they call it? Recruitment? Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: the worst hunter recruitment strategy I have ever seen in
Speaker 1: my life. You it's not like I woke up that
Speaker 1: morning and thought, gosh, I really love squirrel hunting. No
Speaker 1: I did not. Here's the question, did you enjoy it?
Speaker 1: I did? I had a great time. Okay, she said
Speaker 1: all that we had a fantastic, wonderful Yeah. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and the host of this show, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and say that I did not mock her.
Speaker 1: I did giggle just a little bit because the first
Speaker 1: the first squirrel that we shot at. Stop. This is
Speaker 1: this is terrible. Yeah, this is horrible hunter recruitment. If
Speaker 1: people feel like if they go hunting with you, you're
Speaker 1: gonna I was just trying to help you hit the squirrel. Her.
Speaker 1: I just gave her a small bit of feedback on
Speaker 1: that was all. I was a don't mess it up. No,
Speaker 1: it was it was very very clear, articulate feedback. And
Speaker 1: then giggled about it with others later. I'm sorry for that,
Speaker 1: and then giggled about it. That's the that's the part
Speaker 1: that really stung, you know, like we had this great
Speaker 1: time and then I walk up at all the Christmas
Speaker 1: parties we went to. Sure would have been nice to
Speaker 1: have a little more candy and a little less giggling.
Speaker 1: Just a little more candy and a little less giggling,
Speaker 1: it makes you feel better. I've hunted with Clay a
Speaker 1: fair amount and he's never bought me candy. He bought
Speaker 1: me he's never stopped giggling. I don't know that he's
Speaker 1: ever he actually might have giggled at me. I remember
Speaker 1: at the time when we that famous picture of this
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Now, when we were young and you were
Speaker 1: good looking and I was not that hog that you've
Speaker 1: got so beautifully displayed out on the rock there. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that? How that went down? I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're doing it. Yeah, here's what happened. We we
Speaker 1: pull we pulling to the to the National Force and
Speaker 1: he's like, he's like, hey, I think there's some hogs.
Speaker 1: I bet there's some hogs down here. And I'm like, awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so excited because he told me so many
Speaker 1: stories about killing hogs. And we get out and we
Speaker 1: have to climb the hill to this field and he said,
Speaker 1: we get to the corner of the field, he's got
Speaker 1: his bow, I've got mine. Well, I say mine Gary
Speaker 1: Newcoms's old book, and uh, we're in Gary Newcom's old pants,
Speaker 1: probably probably, And he said, here's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1: If we see some hogs, We're both gonna draw and
Speaker 1: I'll count to three and we'll both shoot at the
Speaker 1: same time. I'm like okay. So sure enough we crest
Speaker 1: the hill and it's it's barely shooting light. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just about to be dark. And he goes look
Speaker 1: at that, and there's probably half a dozen hogs out
Speaker 1: and uh He's like, okay, you draw, I'll draw, and
Speaker 1: uh I draw, and Clay's goes one, two and he
Speaker 1: just drills this hog and the hogs scatter. What happened
Speaker 1: to three? Shoot on three? Man, he's supposed to get
Speaker 1: that squared away. I totally forgot about that because I
Speaker 1: actually had really really started over. Let me say though,
Speaker 1: and this is connected to our mystery. Guess who I'm
Speaker 1: gonna introduce. My first cousin, Todd Marriott and I successfully
Speaker 1: pulled off a double um where we drew on hogs.
Speaker 1: We were in tree stands counter to three. We had
Speaker 1: a little more time to plan. Did Todd do the count?
Speaker 1: To Clay's credit, it was a very last minute like cants.
Speaker 1: And we pulled past the spot that I thought, I
Speaker 1: bet there's some hogs up there, and I mean we
Speaker 1: jumped out of the truck and literally within five minutes
Speaker 1: to minutes, I had killed a hog. The other time
Speaker 1: with Todd, it was a little more. It was a
Speaker 1: little more strategic, quite strategic. We went in, found a
Speaker 1: white oak, acren tree, drop rain and acorns, hog sign
Speaker 1: all underneath it, went in hung stands, woke up way
Speaker 1: too early because we didn't set our clocks back and
Speaker 1: it was a time change, and we got into tree
Speaker 1: like hours before daylight set. There daylight hugs came in
Speaker 1: killed them just like, well pretty much killed them. It's
Speaker 1: a long story. It's a really long story. But that's
Speaker 1: connected to Rick Spicer Mystery Guests because Rick knows my
Speaker 1: other first Todd's brother Sean Marriott's right on this podcast,
Speaker 1: Rick Spicer. Rick, Yes, hand clap for Rick. So Rick
Speaker 1: was the falsome napper on which was riveting audio. By
Speaker 1: the way, Well, that's so you just captured at all.
Speaker 1: But no, I really appreciate it being able to be
Speaker 1: part of that. I had a great time. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so the trend with guests that you could in the
Speaker 1: future be able to forecast who's going to be here.
Speaker 1: If you're local, you know, I'll try to get you
Speaker 1: on the render, you know what I mean. But like
Speaker 1: so the other guests would have been runnella Who's in
Speaker 1: Montana podcast? He knows better. I think you're setting yourself
Speaker 1: up right here, like, well, there's what I'm saying. I mean,
Speaker 1: i'd be careful. It's not there's nothing. There's no heart
Speaker 1: and fast rules. I think that Rick is special, and
Speaker 1: that's why he Rick came in like last minute and
Speaker 1: had not made many folsome points. So it's not like
Speaker 1: Rick is like the national fulsome guy. He is a
Speaker 1: fantastic flint napper, though he looked. He gave me this
Speaker 1: piece when I was listening to this on the way
Speaker 1: up here, and he started working on that folsome what
Speaker 1: I thought, Man, it's gonna be so cool everybody on
Speaker 1: the ringe. It's gonna get a false Hey, this is gorgeous.
Speaker 1: I'm holding the one Rick made and it is beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you that that's not a falsome point. How would
Speaker 1: you describe that point? Rick? Uh, that's basically a pretty
Speaker 1: standard arrowhead. It's a side notch point um with some
Speaker 1: fairly heavy serrations, so it doesn't follow any specific it's
Speaker 1: just a functional It's just a point, exactly, and that
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I made that. Let's say you're a
Speaker 1: paleolithic hunter. You've suddenly appeared in North America by which
Speaker 1: way is a complete mystery to modern science and all
Speaker 1: of us. And you got a big piece of stone.
Speaker 1: What kind of stone point are you making to put
Speaker 1: on your arrow? Well? A lot of it has and
Speaker 1: you know nothing that you know. Now, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: the easiest thing I can write, like what tools do?
Speaker 1: I mean? I've actually put myself in similar situations before
Speaker 1: where I like walked out into the woods with nothing
Speaker 1: and tried to be like what can I make? You know,
Speaker 1: I've I've done things like the most extreme example, I
Speaker 1: lived for a month one time out in the woods
Speaker 1: with nothing. Really did you really? Yeah, we're swamp in Louisiana?
Speaker 1: Really did you? Oh? Wow? We need more info on
Speaker 1: that answer the question then we're going back to that.
Speaker 1: We're going back no side tracks. The question is what
Speaker 1: kind of stone point would you make? So the reason
Speaker 1: that the the idea is that maybe Rick would have
Speaker 1: been the one that came up with a falsoen point.
Speaker 1: Let's see. So yeah, it has everything to do with
Speaker 1: like what tools have available to me? What type of
Speaker 1: stones around? But essentially the first thing you're gonna do
Speaker 1: is like try to break the thing. It's like you're
Speaker 1: gonna pick up this rock and figure out how to
Speaker 1: break it. And you can do that by hitting the
Speaker 1: rock on something, or pick up another rock and hit
Speaker 1: that rock with it. And it's gotta be the right
Speaker 1: kind of rock, though, it's gotta be it does metamorphic,
Speaker 1: or it's gonna be harder. Yeah, it's gonna be harder
Speaker 1: than the rock that you're hitting, harder than the church
Speaker 1: itself for the flint that you're hitting, because if it's not,
Speaker 1: it's just gonna break when you hit it. Right, if
Speaker 1: you pick up a piece of sandstone and try to
Speaker 1: hit it, it's just what I'm saying. The you can't
Speaker 1: just go out here and pick up a piece of
Speaker 1: limestone and nap it because it's the Geologically the structure
Speaker 1: of the stone is not right. That you need a
Speaker 1: stone that's a morphous or that is uh consistent throughout
Speaker 1: because if it has a lot of impurities, it won't.
Speaker 1: So the the entire napping process is built around a
Speaker 1: concept called the Hurtzian cone um, either the Hurtzian cone
Speaker 1: or the conchoidal fracture. You ever take a BB gun
Speaker 1: and shoot a window, what happens to the back of
Speaker 1: the window I've never done that. Let's just call it
Speaker 1: a piece of glass. How about that? Don't have to
Speaker 1: be a window. What happens to the to the bb though,
Speaker 1: when it hits the wind, What does the glass do? No,
Speaker 1: not necessari mean it might, but if it doesn't break,
Speaker 1: I should have prefaced that cone. That's a hertzy and cone. Okay,
Speaker 1: and so and because glass is crystal, it's amorphous in nature. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's the same throughout. So we're looking for stone that
Speaker 1: has that same type of properties. So if you taken
Speaker 1: a rock and you strike it with another rock, what
Speaker 1: you're getting when you strike it is a you're creating
Speaker 1: a hertzy and cone. So it's in other words, it's
Speaker 1: a predictable angle that you know what's gonna happen when
Speaker 1: you hit it. And that is what makes napping possible,
Speaker 1: is because once you understand what angle to hit the stone,
Speaker 1: you can predict the angle at which the stone will break,
Speaker 1: and that allows you to craft it in. When you're
Speaker 1: working with stone that is consistent throughout exactly, that would
Speaker 1: eliminate sedimentary stone right within within reason. But yes, um,
Speaker 1: for the most part, Yeah, you're not gonna be working
Speaker 1: with limestone or sandstone. So yeah, no, no sedimentary rocks.
Speaker 1: H as far as what you would be nap ping. Okay,
Speaker 1: So going back to you living in the woods for
Speaker 1: a month, define for us what having nothing means. The
Speaker 1: clothes on my that I walked in with really just
Speaker 1: walked in with some clothes. Yeah, that was actually part
Speaker 1: of a History Channel project that I did. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was that? It's a show called Alone the Beast? Uh
Speaker 1: And you can watch it on who you watch on that?
Speaker 1: You can watch it on saw it you saw? Rick,
Speaker 1: I'll come back to you now back I thought I
Speaker 1: was having a flash. Three people. Yeah, there's three people,
Speaker 1: and it's like a process or not not a limit,
Speaker 1: but it's basically can you make it? The three people?
Speaker 1: A hippie? I feel like there's always in those shows
Speaker 1: on a different episode, not on mine. Is there any
Speaker 1: way that you all think that this story will now
Speaker 1: overshadow the story of me, the perception of me to
Speaker 1: my wife. We'll bring that up appropriate, Yeah, okay, go ahead, Rick,
Speaker 1: know I the only reason I bring it up is
Speaker 1: because like that, you know, well, first of all, there's
Speaker 1: no rocks in Louisiana. I don't know if anyone knows
Speaker 1: that or not. I don't spend any time down there.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that was most frustrating to
Speaker 1: the whole experiences, I've developed the skill, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it. There were no rocks to while I was
Speaker 1: down there. So it's you know, in a way, it's
Speaker 1: sort of pointless that I'm bringing up in the sense
Speaker 1: that I wasn't able to realize those skills or to
Speaker 1: test myself in that situation. But I have done it here.
Speaker 1: Once you get done with this story, I've got a
Speaker 1: story of why there are no rocks in Louisiana. But
Speaker 1: one time I lived in the woods. One day we
Speaker 1: started out. We worked out how to cut up an
Speaker 1: alligator with read. Yeah, yeah, we yeah, we processed a
Speaker 1: whole alligator with a common read. There were three of
Speaker 1: us in the beginning, so you're working together. Were you
Speaker 1: competing and not to know it was a team effort.
Speaker 1: Nobody the anti surviv No, It's like, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: weird that they shouldn't collaborate because I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: under any like contracts or anything anymore. But like the
Speaker 1: name was really misleading. There was we weren't alone ever,
Speaker 1: so like they tried to hook it onto the other
Speaker 1: successful series of the because it was like the same network,
Speaker 1: but like they should have called it something totally different.
Speaker 1: And I think that was a lot of the issues
Speaker 1: that had with promoting it is because we weren't alone,
Speaker 1: and we weren't filming ourselves. I mean we would at night,
Speaker 1: but we were there was a whole film crew during
Speaker 1: the daytime. So not only will we not alone in
Speaker 1: the sense that there were other people in the experience
Speaker 1: with us, but there was a whole film crew six
Speaker 1: days a week out there with us asterisks like alone, right,
Speaker 1: I think you're going I think that we should all
Speaker 1: suggest alternate names together in the woods alone? Yeah, so good?
Speaker 1: You did you guys? You didn't get support from these
Speaker 1: people though, No, Yeah, it was we were out there
Speaker 1: figuring it out, and I mean I lost. I'm not
Speaker 1: a big guy, and I think I lost twenty three pounds. Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah by the time it was all over. Crew were
Speaker 1: they eating? Would they just pus? They were. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for those because because they respected us,
Speaker 1: they never ate in front of us, not once. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so yeah, they were Actually I really got along
Speaker 1: well with the camera guys that were there. They were
Speaker 1: very encouraging, you know, they were they were cool for sure.
Speaker 1: And in fact, you we would know they would leave
Speaker 1: and we were like, they're they're eating We come back,
Speaker 1: and they would they'd come back and we'd be like,
Speaker 1: did you guys have for lunch? That may always find
Speaker 1: a way to change the subject or something, you know,
Speaker 1: to be like, don't really know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: We were having a meeting, you know, something like that.
Speaker 1: We were interesting. So, so Rick is the Flint and
Speaker 1: Appers episode? Yeah, no kidding, Yeah, you know, I know
Speaker 1: Clay Hayes who won. Yeah, that's a big deal, it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, not only did he win five hundred thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: but he stayed in the woods. And and I would
Speaker 1: have I've never watched those kind of shows. We we
Speaker 1: just don't have network television twenty years, so I never
Speaker 1: no candy, no TV we're seeing. I would be pretty
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with these kind of shows. And when I talked
Speaker 1: to Clay, it was it was interesting talking to him
Speaker 1: because I talked to him after he had won, but
Speaker 1: during the period of time when he couldn't tell anybody
Speaker 1: if he won, right, and he was under contractual give
Speaker 1: it to not give any intel. Yeah. I followed him
Speaker 1: out the parking lot to what kind of truck? D Oh,
Speaker 1: you got a brand new fort. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: not like private intel. This is the whole marketing of
Speaker 1: the show. So I'm not like giving a Saturday. That's
Speaker 1: what I understood. And he said it was one legit.
Speaker 1: I mean he said, they turn you loose. And he
Speaker 1: was in British Columbia. Actually, I've got several friends who
Speaker 1: have been on that show. Uh, and it's legit, like
Speaker 1: they're they're not playing. They come in for medical periodic
Speaker 1: medical checks to make sure that people aren't gonna die. Ye,
Speaker 1: Clay is thin. He's a thin guy. He put he
Speaker 1: put on as much weight as he could before, so
Speaker 1: he put on twenty pounds, which was really hard for him,
Speaker 1: put on twenty pounds, and then he lost He lost
Speaker 1: twenty pounds in the first twenty days, I'm pretty sure,
Speaker 1: and then he stayed seventy four days. But man, on
Speaker 1: those show I kind of got to once Clay was
Speaker 1: on there, I started following it and kind of started
Speaker 1: getting some intail from other seasons. And usually it's one
Speaker 1: or two things that happened. That gives someone this major advantage.
Speaker 1: And they were in a very non game rich area
Speaker 1: of British Columbia, and Clay is an excellent traditional archer.
Speaker 1: He killed a deer at some point and it was
Speaker 1: the only big game animal killed. As as I recall
Speaker 1: in the whole show, like ten items, isn't like ten?
Speaker 1: I believe that's right. Yeah, get a list of ten things.
Speaker 1: One of the items will be an RV. One of
Speaker 1: mine would have been gummy. Just send these to my
Speaker 1: wife so when I came home one day before, she'd
Speaker 1: be happy. Okay, back to we're recording there, back to
Speaker 1: why there are no rocks, and Louis Sianna, I'm serious,
Speaker 1: I have a really legitimate answer. Do you know this?
Speaker 1: The son? But I would be curious. Environmental soil science
Speaker 1: know this. That's just operation. The best thing to do
Speaker 1: is just not and then let him say whatever you know. Okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: The Washing Tall Mountain are the place where the South
Speaker 1: American continent bumped in North American continent. The mountains buckled.
Speaker 1: At one time, those mountains were ten thousand feet tall.
Speaker 1: The Washingtall Mountains only mountain range running east and west
Speaker 1: in between the Rockies and the Appalachians. Those mountains were
Speaker 1: snow capped. And at one time we're on the coast
Speaker 1: of what we would call a g I mean, it
Speaker 1: wasn't the Gulf of Mexico at that time, Joshua. At
Speaker 1: that time there was no country of Mexico, um, but
Speaker 1: still have Mexican Allow Ocean came all the way up
Speaker 1: to the interior of what is now Arkansas, and so
Speaker 1: there would have been a ten thousand foot plus range
Speaker 1: of coastal mountains where the Washingtons now are. Those mountains
Speaker 1: eroded over time and filled in what is now called
Speaker 1: the Washatal Basin, which the Washington Basin is essentially parts
Speaker 1: of East Texas, all of Louisiana, and parts of western Mississippi.
Speaker 1: And so the sediment of the Washingtals formed Louisiana and
Speaker 1: all that stuff and all the rocks stayed here. So
Speaker 1: Louisiana is the runoff Louisiana is it filled in the
Speaker 1: ocean and then the rocks when you go down the
Speaker 1: washing Toss, I mean, it's it's rocky and rough because
Speaker 1: all that stuff stayed. I really don't know if that's why.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Uh well, I think to add
Speaker 1: to that, I would say that obviously like the Delta
Speaker 1: and where the Mississippi flows into the Gulf, it's a
Speaker 1: huge alluvial plane. There has been eons worth of silt
Speaker 1: and sediment deposited. Sounds like he's supported. Likely you didn't
Speaker 1: use I don't even really made that when something swamp
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, he's like that. You you
Speaker 1: just got the reason Rick is here? Is he now
Speaker 1: the new host? I've been fired that. I think we're
Speaker 1: on the same channel. I think we're on this. I
Speaker 1: think we are. You had the early version, I had
Speaker 1: to later version. Think, man, that was good. That was good. Um,
Speaker 1: switching topics slightly, just a smidgen. Daniel Rupe has been
Speaker 1: on a roll and he killed another deer the oh
Speaker 1: Man number four, Hey number four, and all giving Clay
Speaker 1: a hard time. Aside, I would not be able to
Speaker 1: hunt if it wasn't for Clay Newcombe took a swift turn. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have been so you know, we've been away for
Speaker 1: a long time and it has been so fun that
Speaker 1: you've been your first fall back, first fall back in
Speaker 1: twelve years and I just got my fourth year with
Speaker 1: a bow. That's just having a wonderful time. Your son
Speaker 1: isn't a lot of pictures. Is he loving this? He really?
Speaker 1: I'm probably this spring gonna get him a bow and
Speaker 1: start taking him out. But he comes with it. He
Speaker 1: came with me this last time. He didn't hunt with you. No,
Speaker 1: I just don't have a set up for two of
Speaker 1: us to be way up in a tree um. But
Speaker 1: this last time, the whole last hour I was out,
Speaker 1: it was just raining thirty degrees. Raining turned to snow,
Speaker 1: and then I took this deer, and so the whole
Speaker 1: place was wet. And I went home and got my
Speaker 1: my second son, who loves to come with me and
Speaker 1: track him. And he tracked it with me for about
Speaker 1: an hour. He got out in front of me. I
Speaker 1: was like, his name is Zion. I call him big Z.
Speaker 1: I was like, big Z get out in front of me.
Speaker 1: You know, he just did a great job. We had
Speaker 1: a that's that's probably a really good way to introduce him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: letting him see the kind of the drama of the
Speaker 1: trail job. And you know, you know, when you get
Speaker 1: a deer, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I got a good shot. I saw it, but did
Speaker 1: and you know, are you gonna get this deer? We're
Speaker 1: gonna find it. And you go like fifteen minutes without
Speaker 1: seeing blood and then you're like, oh, I got it
Speaker 1: over here. You know it's he went. She went about
Speaker 1: a hundred seventy five yards, but a real circuitous passed path.
Speaker 1: You know, just all kinds of you hit it a
Speaker 1: little bit far back, a little bit far back, but
Speaker 1: I didn't make any difference. This is well, this is
Speaker 1: what he did, very far forward. This is this is
Speaker 1: what I think me give you some advice. You're looking
Speaker 1: for advice. Every time I pull back on a deer,
Speaker 1: I just hear cleig giggling. Got at all? That's he
Speaker 1: stays with me. He's gutted and now skinned and process
Speaker 1: three of them. He's thirteen. Perfect. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Rick makes his own bows, does pretty much everything,
Speaker 1: and I'm alright, yeah, I mean it's yeah. So he
Speaker 1: every single component of his hunting weapon for bow hunting deer.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I routinely used that um uh
Speaker 1: you know I don't is a crossbow I used. I
Speaker 1: do hunt with steel broadheads a lot. Okay, that's yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: To clarify, like I have hunted a lot with stone points,
Speaker 1: and I have taken a couple of shots at deer
Speaker 1: um and learned some some tough lessons, but I have
Speaker 1: yet to take one down with a stone point. But
Speaker 1: you're using a self bow, yes, which a self Do
Speaker 1: you know what a self bow is then? Nope? Okay,
Speaker 1: a self bow is a one piece bow. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: has no lamin nations. It's been carved from a single
Speaker 1: piece of wood, as opposed to traditional bowl like those
Speaker 1: hanging on the wall that have laminations. So you basically
Speaker 1: took up stave and down the tree, split the trunk
Speaker 1: into pieces, and then carved the bow from one of
Speaker 1: those pieces. It would be the most primitive type of
Speaker 1: archery equipment. So, yeah, that's pretty cool. That's really cool.
Speaker 1: You know, I've spent a fair bit of time with
Speaker 1: a stone point on the end of my arrow hunting.
Speaker 1: I told you about. So there was a year where
Speaker 1: I took some stone points that my friend David Bond
Speaker 1: here in northwest Arkansas made for me. It was a
Speaker 1: hybrid primitive deal. I was using a recurve bow, so
Speaker 1: which is a a modern traditional traditional and I used
Speaker 1: a carbon arrow and I took a grain field point
Speaker 1: and on a band saw cut a notch out of
Speaker 1: the field point, put the stunt the half of the
Speaker 1: stone point into this little wedge on. I should have
Speaker 1: used j B well, but I used I used sent
Speaker 1: you that I bought, you know, send you and epoxy
Speaker 1: and basically attached to stone point to a field point
Speaker 1: so that it had it had threads on it so
Speaker 1: I can thread it into a carbon arrow. And I
Speaker 1: was gonna try to kill a bear with it. And
Speaker 1: I hunted a long time and just never killed a
Speaker 1: bear that year. And uh, and then I was telling
Speaker 1: Rick this, I was later tree stand whitetail hunting, trying
Speaker 1: to kill a white tail with it, and I dropped
Speaker 1: it just for whatever reason, the arrows didn't fit on
Speaker 1: the string real good. And it was I dropped an
Speaker 1: arrow out of the tree. And when that arrow hit
Speaker 1: the ground with no real force behind it, that that
Speaker 1: stone point snapped. And it's that was humbling because most
Speaker 1: of the humans that have ever lived on planet Earth,
Speaker 1: let's just say a lot of them made a living
Speaker 1: off stone points. And I mean, you know, just to
Speaker 1: think it is not easy to kill stuff at the
Speaker 1: stone point, especially when your family depends on it and
Speaker 1: your wife has left eye dominant. Humble you very much,
Speaker 1: though she's like, did you get a deer? No? You
Speaker 1: better have some candy then else tonight. No, I've always
Speaker 1: I've kind of tiptoed around the primitive world. I've never
Speaker 1: gone as primitive as is some of the stuff that
Speaker 1: ricks do. Them had deep respect for the guys that
Speaker 1: really shot primitive archery. Um so yeah, my father, my
Speaker 1: my brother's father in law, David Albright, primitive archer, usually
Speaker 1: goes like this, it follows, it's Patrie. It's always like
Speaker 1: somebody's something. It's the guy that you know that's done this.
Speaker 1: But no, I was inspired to get into traditional archery
Speaker 1: when twenty plus years ago, when I was a compound archer.
Speaker 1: But I would go to my brother, my brother's father
Speaker 1: in law's house, a fantastic traditional archer. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: just just it's a lifestyle, you know, and as it
Speaker 1: is for so many of these guys. And he made
Speaker 1: his own bows and and he I just was like,
Speaker 1: as a kid, I mean, you know, twenty something, I
Speaker 1: was like, no, that it's a cool way to bow hunt.
Speaker 1: But it was so stink and hard. I just didn't
Speaker 1: think it was approachable, and it would be about ten
Speaker 1: or twelve years after I met him that I finally
Speaker 1: kind of dove in. And that's what you kind of
Speaker 1: have to do, you guys, just have to dive in.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of time involved in it, you know,
Speaker 1: And I get it. You know a lot of people
Speaker 1: just want to go deer hunting. They don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: to have all this extra stuff that they have to do.
Speaker 1: But if you enjoy like working with your hands, crafting things,
Speaker 1: experimenting with things, like it's a really rewarding way to
Speaker 1: go about it. Yeah. Yeah, Rick is pretty cood. A
Speaker 1: lot of my friends do, especially the ultimate act of
Speaker 1: hunting self limitations, you know, and that's really what we
Speaker 1: do with every aspect of modern hunting. Nine of people
Speaker 1: and there's some personage that don't, but we limit ourselves.
Speaker 1: I mean, I went duck hunting last week and it
Speaker 1: was the policy amongst the brethren I was with the
Speaker 1: only use twenty gauges. And it would be like, well,
Speaker 1: why are you just using a twenty gage? And they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, and there it was just a idea of
Speaker 1: self limitation, and so we constantly, constantly do that So
Speaker 1: transitioning into talking about the podcast, I invited Devin Pettigrew here,
Speaker 1: but he lives in Colorado, so he couldn't come, but
Speaker 1: we could the field trip Boulder, Colorado. I thought his
Speaker 1: his section was so interesting. I talked about it with
Speaker 1: a couple of the different guys, maybe maybe all of them,
Speaker 1: but about the transitions, the technology transitions, that was really
Speaker 1: interesting to me because that's something we see throughout history,
Speaker 1: is human technology increasing, and there's always some kind of
Speaker 1: drama at the transition. And we know that the fulsome
Speaker 1: points were in vogue in being used by this culture
Speaker 1: for a thousand years. I don't remember this on the
Speaker 1: podcast or not. I think maybe I took it out,
Speaker 1: But when I was talking to Devon, I was like, no,
Speaker 1: it wasn't him. If somebody else I was talking to,
Speaker 1: I said, does a thousand years sound like a long
Speaker 1: time to you? And they were like, yeah, it seems
Speaker 1: like eternity. But to me that sounded like a really
Speaker 1: short amount of time when you think when you're thinking
Speaker 1: about human history and all the other thousand year blocks
Speaker 1: that are in there, and just for this short period
Speaker 1: of time, there was this real radical technology that was
Speaker 1: used it phased in and it phased out, and just
Speaker 1: there would have been people having conversations about it. They
Speaker 1: would have had extremely practical conversations about that technology, just
Speaker 1: like we do with our broadhead stuff. I mean, essentially
Speaker 1: we could have a conversation today about using cut on
Speaker 1: impact heads or using expandable broadheads. All of us would
Speaker 1: be like, oh, man, you got to do this, or
Speaker 1: you got to do that, or I can't believe you
Speaker 1: did that. There there had to have been a time
Speaker 1: when they were like, man, I can't believe you're still
Speaker 1: fluting those things, like this is really cool time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like three years of this. I'm out. So
Speaker 1: I I was probably put too much thought energy into
Speaker 1: form or function like or or like was it functional?
Speaker 1: And I have decided today this morning I listened to
Speaker 1: the podcast again. I decided it wasn't functional. It wasn't Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think about all the guys that
Speaker 1: have you know, if if if you don't have an
Speaker 1: outlet for art, like we don't have any material art
Speaker 1: from that time period and the thing we do from
Speaker 1: that time period of human history but not not not much.
Speaker 1: If you don't have that and you're putting all your
Speaker 1: energy into this thing. At some point somebody should have said,
Speaker 1: this is my signature. You know what I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna flute this thing because I would have
Speaker 1: done it. You know. I can't tell you how many
Speaker 1: decks I've built where I just do a certain things
Speaker 1: to make it look cool or have a signature about it.
Speaker 1: I think that probably there was the guy that fluted
Speaker 1: and then he taught I mean, if if we're talking
Speaker 1: about small family groups, there had to be a guy
Speaker 1: that was the first one to flute these things, and
Speaker 1: he taught everybody else how to do this, and then
Speaker 1: it just kind of carried on until people, you know,
Speaker 1: either had their own signature or they found something more functional.
Speaker 1: So I've decided, hey, I want to give I want
Speaker 1: to give some backing to what Josh just said. When
Speaker 1: Josh started talking, I didn't know he's going to say that.
Speaker 1: But Josh is extremely crafty with his hands. Josh is
Speaker 1: a very skilled carpenter. He ties flies. He builds Dan's
Speaker 1: bug church yesterday, so my church built. Oh you get
Speaker 1: black Mary, not good enough for your church. And then
Speaker 1: and Josh also makes hats, so can wear your hands.
Speaker 1: Josh makes purses, leather per your wife have a mustache. Um,
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that's coming from a place of a
Speaker 1: guy that works with his hands. You know. The one
Speaker 1: the one thing that I thought about that when I
Speaker 1: can't remember the gentleman that was um saying at the
Speaker 1: Fulsome site, the Fulsome expert Meltzer, he was saying, you
Speaker 1: could you could kind of tell they were probably three
Speaker 1: different Yeah, he could identify different individuals based their style,
Speaker 1: and he was kind of saying, I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 1: if these these these these folks kind of had their
Speaker 1: own signature. So one of the things that made me
Speaker 1: think was in the in the cultural anthropology class that
Speaker 1: I teach, there is a hunter gatherer group that was
Speaker 1: still in existence up until like the nineteen fifties that
Speaker 1: was studied extensively, and so there we would have been
Speaker 1: really similar to falsome people's but they had an intense
Speaker 1: desire to all be the same, to not stand out.
Speaker 1: So it's real egalitarian. So you could observe their actual
Speaker 1: behaviors because you're not looking ats. So the bands of
Speaker 1: you know, thirty people that would go around these water
Speaker 1: holes and they would hunt and gather. And I can't
Speaker 1: remember the mechanism that they used to hunt, but well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. They shot arrows, and so they had these
Speaker 1: entire rituals as they would make arrows and then they
Speaker 1: would exchange them because they needed to have everything level
Speaker 1: because personal property would cause the hunter gather. Basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so there were probably were three different folks that
Speaker 1: you know that chip those rocks out. But then if
Speaker 1: they were really interdependent people that were living day to
Speaker 1: day subsistence dwelling, I don't know if. I don't know
Speaker 1: if like other hunter gatherer cultures that we've been able
Speaker 1: to observe in real life, would espouse this really rugged
Speaker 1: individualism of I'm gonna leave my mark on this. So
Speaker 1: I'm deeply intrigued by what you're saying. Are you agreeing
Speaker 1: or disagreeing? Function he's disagreeing with me, Well, because that's
Speaker 1: what Dan does. I think. I mean, they wouldn't do
Speaker 1: if it didn't work. But it probably is also beautiful
Speaker 1: and something you take. But the idea of kind of
Speaker 1: setting yourself apart would not have been something. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that would have existed. Excellent and excellent point
Speaker 1: that gives a whole layer to the culture that I've
Speaker 1: never even thought of that these people would have had,
Speaker 1: and they would have It's not like these were These
Speaker 1: were humans that had the same cognitive capabilities est at
Speaker 1: the same emotions that they were just like us. One
Speaker 1: of their babies could have been the President of the
Speaker 1: United States and they would have had deeply set culture
Speaker 1: just like us. It's just it's just hidden from us.
Speaker 1: So the idea that that they would have just had
Speaker 1: these values of no one can stay out. But I
Speaker 1: was going to say that could be to his point,
Speaker 1: because it would be non utilitarian if they just didn't
Speaker 1: want to change stuff, Like if a generation woke up
Speaker 1: one day and they were the hunters and they were like,
Speaker 1: we're doing this like dad did. Of the reason is
Speaker 1: that it's because that's the way we were taught. There
Speaker 1: wasn't this idea of self discovery or we're trying to
Speaker 1: be different. The way they survived was they were the same.
Speaker 1: That is non I mean that is part non utilitarian,
Speaker 1: and that's where it's a whole different you know, two
Speaker 1: I mean makeup a percentage, but probably two thirds of
Speaker 1: the world that is interdependent agrarian. You know, they have
Speaker 1: a huge value for honor and tradition. In the West,
Speaker 1: where we're ruggedly individualistic, we kind of have this luxury
Speaker 1: of what kind of clothes do I wear? And does
Speaker 1: this shirt me? And does this express me? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: but most of the world doesn't live at our level
Speaker 1: of wealth. They value tradition because traditions what keeps you alive.
Speaker 1: Why are we so ridiculous? I am fully convinced that
Speaker 1: we have as Western thinkers. You can't help We are,
Speaker 1: our our world views dominated by things that are very
Speaker 1: hard to control or to see and understand about ourselves.
Speaker 1: Us sitting here trying to understand these people is like
Speaker 1: us trying to read Brail and having no idea what
Speaker 1: any of it means. And well, we will read if
Speaker 1: we're not careful, we'll read ourselves back there. Yes, like
Speaker 1: you know, would I can't help. But compared to the
Speaker 1: mac PC argument that because I'm a macron and PC
Speaker 1: you know like it. I like MAX because I like
Speaker 1: to say, because of functionality, because it's easier to use,
Speaker 1: but also I think they're cool. Do you see what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? And so, like I was listening to y'all
Speaker 1: argue and I thought and I wondered if maybe they had,
Speaker 1: like probably not shirts that said I'm a mac I'm
Speaker 1: a falsome. But somebody said fluters would have been a
Speaker 1: good three on three basketball. But I wondered about when
Speaker 1: it when it stopped? When, when when the utility wore
Speaker 1: out on it? Because they got to come to a
Speaker 1: point if you're only the ones you make are failure, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well that guy Bob the air head maker, he's only
Speaker 1: gonna be able to tape so many rocks with him.
Speaker 1: And when they take that process out of there, when
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be fluted like that, when he
Speaker 1: doesn't have to look just because Grandpa did it, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody's got to say at some point, Frank, you're wasting
Speaker 1: a lot of rocks. Frustrated Frank Candy before and his grandpa.
Speaker 1: I believe that there are actual examples of of that
Speaker 1: type of thing, Like do you know the Sloan site
Speaker 1: here in Arkansas. You're familiar with that. You should really
Speaker 1: check that one out. So it is onna a very
Speaker 1: significant depository of this. Dalton the Dalton Point is what's
Speaker 1: prevalent at the Sloan site, and it's near Crowley's Ridge, uh,
Speaker 1: here in Arkansas, and there's different types of rocks there.
Speaker 1: But as I understand it from things that I've read
Speaker 1: about that as the stone sources begin to get further
Speaker 1: away and they would dry up, then they started to
Speaker 1: like not produce the points the same way anymore because
Speaker 1: the resource wasn't as good as it once was. Um
Speaker 1: And of course that's still very much a theory, but
Speaker 1: but I think there there's some evidence to support that
Speaker 1: theory that when they could get high quality stone and
Speaker 1: it was available, they were gonna produce these really fascinating
Speaker 1: articulate points. But when that went away, they didn't spend
Speaker 1: as much time or they like began to work on
Speaker 1: a different type of point because the resource wasn't as
Speaker 1: rich it was as as it decreases available. So there's
Speaker 1: a lot of factors at work here. It's probably not
Speaker 1: just one thing. My conclusion is that it's impossible for
Speaker 1: us to know which we we know that it's it's
Speaker 1: clear that there was utility, utility to the fluting in
Speaker 1: the way that it fit into the half and all
Speaker 1: the things we talked about on the podcast that made
Speaker 1: it functional. But also, like what Dr Meltzer said is
Speaker 1: he said Essentially, he was like, maybe it could have
Speaker 1: been both. Sure, you know, they he said they found
Speaker 1: bits of red ochre in places where they napped, which typically,
Speaker 1: he said, it could have been part of the mastic,
Speaker 1: the adhesive that they used to plug it in, you know,
Speaker 1: to plug it into the half. But but he said,
Speaker 1: usually red ochre was part of spiritual Yeah, like they
Speaker 1: were they were putting ochre on this on these points,
Speaker 1: whatever they did. So I think I think I think
Speaker 1: missing Newcomb nailed it on the head, despite he's probably
Speaker 1: trying to make up for that. What did you say
Speaker 1: about the computers? It's the kind of cool that's it
Speaker 1: functional but cool. I mean, I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: stretch to think that one lead to the other either, right, like,
Speaker 1: and it could also be the chicken egg thing, like
Speaker 1: as far as like it was it functional first, and
Speaker 1: then because it was functional, it became sacred and we
Speaker 1: you know, or for whatever reason it was the other way,
Speaker 1: it was decided this was sacred, but as we used it,
Speaker 1: it was also very functional, which reinforced that. But to
Speaker 1: your point, we'll never know. But it's it's fun to
Speaker 1: talk about. So can somebody. So I really and it's me,
Speaker 1: it's not anyone else. I still do not understand what
Speaker 1: an addle addle is. He was describing it, and I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. It's basically, it's a stefically a stick. It's okay,
Speaker 1: So it's a stick, and they vary in length, but
Speaker 1: on average we'll say they're about two ft long. On
Speaker 1: the back there's a spur, so it's a stick and
Speaker 1: it has a little spur on the back. Okay. The
Speaker 1: spur is where the back of the spear fits into okay,
Speaker 1: a handle, and so it's a platform on which the
Speaker 1: spear sets and as you throw it, it extends that lever.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so simple, I mean is and they
Speaker 1: get more complex. That's what he's talking about, the wrist motion. Okay,
Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry to understand. You know, I'm glad
Speaker 1: you said that, because we spend a ton of time
Speaker 1: verbally trying to describe what a fulsome point looked like.
Speaker 1: I was torn with overlapping content because the thing you
Speaker 1: don't want to do, and literature and different things is
Speaker 1: overlapped too much, so you say the same thing over
Speaker 1: and over because people get bored. I I asked Brunella
Speaker 1: Melter Devin Pettigrew, and then Rick showed us what one
Speaker 1: looked like, trying to describe a fulesome point, and because
Speaker 1: I just felt like that was important. And then I said,
Speaker 1: go google it and if you had an image of it,
Speaker 1: it was a lot. It would make sense. Man, I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about this for five months and I now
Speaker 1: just now feel like when I see a fulesome point,
Speaker 1: I get it. And it came from watching Rick make one,
Speaker 1: actually watching him make one. And if I get it,
Speaker 1: I mean I see the value in it, I see
Speaker 1: the skill in it, I see the art in it.
Speaker 1: I understand the functionality of it. And it took that long.
Speaker 1: I say, I'll have to say I did not describe
Speaker 1: what an adlout was because I thought everybody knew. Do
Speaker 1: you have a video of him making that put on Instagram? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Do you know what social media is? Did you ever
Speaker 1: heard of it's called? Didn't show the actual flute breaking
Speaker 1: off though, that's what I want to say that it was.
Speaker 1: I was. I was holding the audio equipment. This what
Speaker 1: I was doing was equivalent. It was probably harder than
Speaker 1: making a fluted point. Was you I want to see
Speaker 1: the stone? I was holding the audio thing and then
Speaker 1: I was filming like this. I was filming Rick. So
Speaker 1: in the fifth grade, did you really in the tomato field?
Speaker 1: My brother and older brother Tim. No, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: why I can't. My older brother Tim, he's bigging to
Speaker 1: find an area, heads and stuff like. He knows a
Speaker 1: lot about him. Anyway, he's eight years older than me.
Speaker 1: When I was in the fifth grade, he was telling
Speaker 1: me about, you know, the Indians that lived here. I
Speaker 1: hear where we raised tomatoes, where we had just found
Speaker 1: some points. You know, they used adeladdles and bows and
Speaker 1: this and that, and so he explained to me what
Speaker 1: it was. So I got two tomato sticks and I
Speaker 1: put a fence stapling into one and I sharpened another one.
Speaker 1: And when he came back a couple of days later
Speaker 1: to visit or whatever he just lived just down the road,
Speaker 1: I threw it at him. I missed him, but he
Speaker 1: he got the part that I threw, then chased me
Speaker 1: down and beat the right So they work on both ends.
Speaker 1: So but it did work. I mean I had that
Speaker 1: fence staple on the end of that. It worked good.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you can throw it, you know. There was
Speaker 1: a History Channels show Top Shot was like a marksmanship
Speaker 1: competition where they you know, everything from modern supermodern firearms
Speaker 1: and muskets and all that stuff. But they did a
Speaker 1: big part of the competition with a laddles and they
Speaker 1: were they were did you know it? Missouri? Missouri has
Speaker 1: a Missouri specifically season. Every I think it is a
Speaker 1: crime against humanity and our ancestors that every state in
Speaker 1: this country doesn't have an ad aloud season. I mean,
Speaker 1: how many deer are we're going to kill? That Adds
Speaker 1: right in Arkansas name a bunch of deer and no, no, no,
Speaker 1: damn you. I mean that is the thought process, which
Speaker 1: I believe is an incorrect thought process. I mean, tobacco,
Speaker 1: we are here, adaddle's work, follow that back alladdle is
Speaker 1: the most primitive human tool in the earth, And I
Speaker 1: legally can't go out in my backyard and try to
Speaker 1: kill a deer with it, but I can use the
Speaker 1: thirty yacht six. Well here's the thing else. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: we were standing in the court of law and they
Speaker 1: let me in, my lawyer, let me talk, we would
Speaker 1: win this. This is the classic you're going to defend yourself.
Speaker 1: I do not need a quarter pointed lawyer. I will
Speaker 1: speak for this is what everybody does. You're gonna get
Speaker 1: the Adeladdle season taken away. I think they should. I
Speaker 1: think here's another here's the add onto that add Addle's work.
Speaker 1: Obviously because we're here. Folks also used to build fires
Speaker 1: without a firestarter, and out of all the people that
Speaker 1: you know, how many people you think, it woke right
Speaker 1: out there and they woulds and set them on fire
Speaker 1: without some spicer people very few. Sorry, you got demoted
Speaker 1: to that level. That's the deal. I think they're doing it.
Speaker 1: It's been that's their new motto. Missouri, we're doing it.
Speaker 1: That's being shot out. I was just thinking about South
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I was South Dakota came up and we
Speaker 1: love South Dakota and South Dakotas before they had a
Speaker 1: slogan that said meth. Oh yeah, we're on it. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: It was anti drug. This is for real. It was
Speaker 1: marketing campaign said meth we're honest. They didn't run, they
Speaker 1: didn't have to be focused groups. I think they were.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they're like great, something else to
Speaker 1: take everyone to the the tins shot because it was the
Speaker 1: year before and they were it was that time. Take
Speaker 1: that out. Just lost all the South Dakota listeners. We're
Speaker 1: not nervous, we're just real quick. Oh my goodness, says
Speaker 1: the Drug Task Force guy. I think the idea that
Speaker 1: history defines us, whether that was your main history defines us,
Speaker 1: whether or not we know it. But just like the
Speaker 1: fact that we're all standing right here because Adeladdle's work
Speaker 1: and I don't even five minutes ago to't even know
Speaker 1: when one was, history really does define us, whether or
Speaker 1: not we know. That's a pretty big point. You know what.
Speaker 1: The conclusion of the series, That's what I love about
Speaker 1: what we're doing is that this is not I didn't
Speaker 1: plant Devon to say what he said, and I started
Speaker 1: out with a genuine question like why does any of
Speaker 1: this matter? Why is it important? And you know, we
Speaker 1: could talk about that for an hour. Why it's important?
Speaker 1: I mean, is this just entertainment to understand this stuff?
Speaker 1: Is it just entertaining or is there something more? And
Speaker 1: you know, Devon right at the end just said he
Speaker 1: said anthropology is powerful stuff. He said, these all this
Speaker 1: stuff is defining us, whether we want it to or not.
Speaker 1: So whether with or without our knowledge of what happened
Speaker 1: at Folsome and what these people did, and those things
Speaker 1: are defining us. And I keep going back to this
Speaker 1: idea that we're in a time period when human nature
Speaker 1: and humans we're we're it's like we're looking for a
Speaker 1: new definition of what it means to be human. And
Speaker 1: and you can take that a thousand different ways. You
Speaker 1: have a thousand different examples. There's no salvation inside of
Speaker 1: being a hunter. I don't want it to sound like that.
Speaker 1: There is something that is very defining and very simple
Speaker 1: and very architectural, meaning that it is a pillar of
Speaker 1: our humanity that we can't get away from no matter
Speaker 1: what we do. You can choose to get away from
Speaker 1: it for some period of time usually, but the fact
Speaker 1: that we're meat eaters and that we lived by an
Speaker 1: intimate and and skilled connection to the land, that is
Speaker 1: a primary definer of our humanity that has too and
Speaker 1: in the future continue to define what it means to
Speaker 1: be human. And so by looking back at this stuff
Speaker 1: and saying these people were just like us, all right,
Speaker 1: just it changes it. It I meant what I said,
Speaker 1: and that it puts perspective on my problems. It puts
Speaker 1: perspective on the challenges that I have inside of my life.
Speaker 1: Really does, and and it just it just kind of
Speaker 1: grounds you moving away from satisfaction and identity inside that
Speaker 1: some of this temporal, ephemeral stuff. What do you guys think?
Speaker 1: I agree absolutely. I have simplified my life over the
Speaker 1: last three years too. I don't I don't watch the news.
Speaker 1: You know, what's the old saying. If you watch the news,
Speaker 1: you're misinformed. If you don't watch the news, you're uninformed.
Speaker 1: You know. I get a majority of the things that
Speaker 1: are going on from people telling me, hey, I saw this,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on here and there. I have
Speaker 1: simplified my life around what's the old thing, I say
Speaker 1: to you, If it ain't gun fire, it ain't you know,
Speaker 1: everything's probably gonna be all right. And I that's where
Speaker 1: I tend to lead my family in that direction of
Speaker 1: simplifying and getting away from all the distractions and everything
Speaker 1: that are going on, and we just pretty well concentrate
Speaker 1: on taking care of each other and our friends and
Speaker 1: our neighbors, doing the right thing, and you go. But
Speaker 1: these folks that were making these that's what they were
Speaker 1: worried about. They were worried about everything that they could
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning and see. And that was
Speaker 1: their world, and that was of course they may have
Speaker 1: something to do with whether or not here now. But
Speaker 1: I may be wrong thinking, but it's it's right thinking
Speaker 1: for me. Why does this matter to me? When we
Speaker 1: talk about bear Grease? What I always how I always
Speaker 1: describe it to people is bear Grease is not just
Speaker 1: a podcast with Clay Does, but it's a metaphor for
Speaker 1: how we live our lives. And that is we hold
Speaker 1: on to ancient principles and we live our life by
Speaker 1: ancient principles but use progressive tools, you know. So there's
Speaker 1: there's things that really shape who we are, how we
Speaker 1: live as a family. Um. I mean everyone who listens
Speaker 1: podcasts should know by now that biblical principles are a
Speaker 1: major part of that for us, and that shapes who
Speaker 1: we are. But it doesn't mean that we like hearken
Speaker 1: back to some good old days that of like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't wear prairie dresses, uh from the eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: although it's really on trend right now. But you know,
Speaker 1: we I use computers. We we are you know, we
Speaker 1: are very progressive people in one way and we're always
Speaker 1: and I think that that's what you see inside of
Speaker 1: some of these tools. It's like you progress, and you
Speaker 1: see I would define tools differently than you know, than
Speaker 1: an arrowhead. Now those aren't really tools that I use,
Speaker 1: but we we use progressive tools to accomplish and to
Speaker 1: live lives that are governed by ancient principles. And I
Speaker 1: think that anytime you look back at history and you
Speaker 1: look back at those things, you learn more data. Point Dan,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Why does this matter for me?
Speaker 1: What really helped me through this whole series on the
Speaker 1: Falesome is going you go back ten thousand years two people,
Speaker 1: and they were people. They had culture, they had sophisticated
Speaker 1: ways of engaging with one another, they had really complex
Speaker 1: relationships and lives. And I think that narrative corrects a
Speaker 1: lot of thinking that I mean before I probably did
Speaker 1: think a lot about ten thousand years ago and people,
Speaker 1: but just the idea that when you go back, being
Speaker 1: human is a very very unique thing. And then I
Speaker 1: think looking at today and realizing how and you've said
Speaker 1: it before, Clay, how absurd rdly different our lives are
Speaker 1: today the vast majority of all people that have lived
Speaker 1: it really does put our lives in perspective. And I think,
Speaker 1: because our lives are so different now, if ten thousand
Speaker 1: years ago, there was you know, I'm making this up,
Speaker 1: two ways to define yourself. One was a Fulsome point
Speaker 1: and one was a Clovis point. Today there's ten million
Speaker 1: ways to define yourself, and the vast majority of them feel,
Speaker 1: you know, just overly empty, and we just go from
Speaker 1: one to the other. And I think that to me,
Speaker 1: it's grounding. Yeah, Rick, why is this matter for me? Like,
Speaker 1: especially as someone who has kind of a foot in
Speaker 1: both doors. Like, on one hand, I'm a like earth
Speaker 1: skills practitioner, I would, but on the other hand, I
Speaker 1: sell the most modern technical outdoor equipment made for a
Speaker 1: living right. Uh Rick is part owner in a really
Speaker 1: cool outdoor store, which you heard on the podcast. I
Speaker 1: spend money that this post there about years. Maybe we
Speaker 1: could give your money now. I think though, that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of value for me in that, because the
Speaker 1: rate at which our society is changing is like exponential
Speaker 1: right now, right Like, things just change faster and faster,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that there's a way to stop that,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that that the speed at which
Speaker 1: things are changing, well, I'll just say that I don't
Speaker 1: think it's good for us, but I think that as yeah,
Speaker 1: as a species, I don't think that our brains were
Speaker 1: necessarily made to handle all of the things that are
Speaker 1: going on at once right now the way they are.
Speaker 1: And so for me, looking back, I would use a
Speaker 1: lot of the words you folks have already used, you know, grounding, connective,
Speaker 1: and it uh. It feels really good to slow things
Speaker 1: now and look back at how people would have lived
Speaker 1: and what they needed to live. And it reminds me
Speaker 1: that we don't need most of the things that we
Speaker 1: have around us right now, because they're just things. What
Speaker 1: matters are the people that are around us, the relationships
Speaker 1: we have with those people, in the relationship we have
Speaker 1: with this earth. You know. I I go back to
Speaker 1: this idea that these falsome points thousand years and we
Speaker 1: could have picked any style of point it could have been.
Speaker 1: There's other styles, but just what we talked about was
Speaker 1: falsome at fulsome point being transferred generationally. We see a
Speaker 1: stone point because its outlasted the erosive nature of time.
Speaker 1: But what other values and principles were passed down with
Speaker 1: that stuff because there were fathers teaching sons how to
Speaker 1: knap stone. I know from being with Rick it's not
Speaker 1: a fast process. You're in close proximity, you're talking. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like to think about it as a as a
Speaker 1: kind of a metaphor for just generational continuance and something
Speaker 1: stayed so stable for so long. I think families want
Speaker 1: that with their kids, and not that our kids would
Speaker 1: be just like us. I don't care if my kids
Speaker 1: are just like me. There are principles and values that
Speaker 1: I hope my life would impact generations from now of newcoms,
Speaker 1: that they would be able to go. I'm a product
Speaker 1: of that. I'm a product. I'm not I'm not isolated.
Speaker 1: I didn't come up with this version of who I am.
Speaker 1: You know I can. It's kind of a metaphor to
Speaker 1: me for generational continuance. To and to look back at
Speaker 1: stuff like that gives you vision, just thoughts of yeah,
Speaker 1: life is more than just making more money next year
Speaker 1: than we had this year, getting a newer car, putting
Speaker 1: a good Instagram post up, being successful in what you're doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, like life is bigger than that. Looking back
Speaker 1: does give us a sense of we don't need as
Speaker 1: much stuff as we think we need, and the ridiculousness
Speaker 1: of this Western world we live in. It's incredible value
Speaker 1: on material stuff that will not outlast the roast of
Speaker 1: nature of time. Right, But Josh, what is it important?
Speaker 1: I'm not a philosopher like dan Is. I think the
Speaker 1: thing that I draw out of it is looking back
Speaker 1: at ancient people's like this makes me identify the things
Speaker 1: that were produced in their lives that caused our species
Speaker 1: to continue on. And really that that comes down to
Speaker 1: relational activity, you know what I mean, husbands and wives
Speaker 1: and children and investing and providing and doing those kind
Speaker 1: of things, and the and the gratitude that we must
Speaker 1: have for those things, and not not a sense of burden,
Speaker 1: but really a sense of gratitude that we have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to build relationships with one another, that we have
Speaker 1: the ability to invest values inside of our children. Because
Speaker 1: it's easy to get overwhelmed with the crisis and the
Speaker 1: all the things that are going on inside of the
Speaker 1: world that one we stop when you know, the it
Speaker 1: feels like the world is moving faster and faster and faster,
Speaker 1: and in a sense it is. But when we slow
Speaker 1: down inside of our families, and we slow down inside
Speaker 1: of our minds, and we stop reeling, and we start
Speaker 1: thinking through things, and we start thinking through consequences of
Speaker 1: our actions that I think that that produces a lot
Speaker 1: of value in our lives and a lot of peace
Speaker 1: and hope, because I think those are the things that
Speaker 1: are lacking inside of our society right now. Is peace
Speaker 1: and hope, it's all just fear and uh So it
Speaker 1: makes me stop and think, what what What can I
Speaker 1: observe from those people's lives? They worked hard, they were creative,
Speaker 1: they were strategic. And applying those things inside of my
Speaker 1: own life with you know, Christie and I as we
Speaker 1: talk about our marriage and raising our kids, what do
Speaker 1: we need to do to produce the fruit in the future.
Speaker 1: I think we can glean a lot of those things
Speaker 1: when we look back historically. And uh, I think it's
Speaker 1: I think it it's very thought provoking, you know, looking
Speaker 1: looking at the folesome people, is looking at how they
Speaker 1: made their points, and it provokes a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: that can produce a lot of fruit. So I think
Speaker 1: it's good. Josh, I bet you buy your wife candy
Speaker 1: whatever she wants. I'm sorry, I had a great time.
Speaker 1: I genuinely did. We had so much fun. We had
Speaker 1: so much fun. I did about about giving me a
Speaker 1: hard time about my shot. It was just when you
Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder and there's this big red squirrel
Speaker 1: up in the tree. You gotta keep doing it, gonna
Speaker 1: stop saying pointed like way over here, and the squirrel
Speaker 1: was like over here. Okay, listen. All fantastic stuff. Fantastic stuff.
Speaker 1: I could talk about fulsome points for you know, I've
Speaker 1: I've feared that four episodes on Foalsome would get old.
Speaker 1: It didn't to me. I really enjoyed that last episode.
Speaker 1: It was one of my favorites. Really, why was your favorite?
Speaker 1: You know, I love I think I love the craftsmanship,
Speaker 1: listening to things made and talking about you know, how
Speaker 1: they would have halted it, and you know, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm visualizing all these things. I thought it was
Speaker 1: a great It provoked a lot of visual activity inside
Speaker 1: of my mind and I people. I heard a lot
Speaker 1: of people say that they felt like it was their
Speaker 1: favorite one in the series. But what was cool about
Speaker 1: it too? It's such a diverse series because we started
Speaker 1: off with George mcjunkin and hardly even talked about uh,
Speaker 1: hardly even talked about Folsome Really it was it was
Speaker 1: about George mcjunkin. You know, yeah, super fascinating stuff. And
Speaker 1: the next already told, already foreshadowed what the next episode
Speaker 1: is going to be about. Yeah, it's and it's not
Speaker 1: just about duck hunting, like, don't think that, but it
Speaker 1: is a very specific issue that has broader applications to
Speaker 1: wildlife management in this country and the decisions that we
Speaker 1: make and how we build hunting culture. How's that for foreshadowing?
Speaker 1: C Json, you're trying to bring in a season for ducks?
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't we? Why not? I can see that. You
Speaker 1: see that spear right there, Rick, Do you see that
Speaker 1: I made that spear with the full intent when I
Speaker 1: was like twenty one, the full intent of using it
Speaker 1: to hunt a deer in Arkansas? And I called, uh,
Speaker 1: called the authorities that be and they were like, uh,
Speaker 1: you can't hunt it. I thought that I thought it
Speaker 1: would just down automatically downgrade, like you can use a
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, it's both season, I can use
Speaker 1: a spear, right And the dude laughed me out of
Speaker 1: the park. He was it as unnecessary metaphorically he metaphorically laugh. Man,
Speaker 1: he didn't laugh. It wasn't good. His name was no. No.
Speaker 1: He was very professional with me. But he was just like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, I mean he treated me like I was
Speaker 1: a college kid, which I guess he had the right
Speaker 1: to do. At Latree. Hey, we just keep going on
Speaker 1: and on. I wanted to say this about Missouri. You know,
Speaker 1: Missouri has a new bear season. Shout out, Missouri is
Speaker 1: doing it. They just instituted a new bear season. Man,
Speaker 1: if you do anything in your life support when new
Speaker 1: seasons arrived for species, they've taken a little bit of
Speaker 1: flak in in that people. There's there's different things where
Speaker 1: people are like, you know, anti the new bear season
Speaker 1: in Missouri, which is ridiculous because the best thing, Daniel Roupe,
Speaker 1: that could ever happen to you, if you were a
Speaker 1: big game animal is that there would be a season
Speaker 1: for you in that state. Because where animals have culture
Speaker 1: is such a complex story. Where animals have cultural value,
Speaker 1: their habitat is protected and they are protected. Where an
Speaker 1: animal has no cultural value, put it out the door,
Speaker 1: we don't care. And we've got a thousand examples across
Speaker 1: this plant where that has happened. You go all over
Speaker 1: the globe and they don't have as many big game
Speaker 1: animals as as many as we do here in North
Speaker 1: America because they killed them all because they didn't culturally
Speaker 1: value them through sport hunting. Roll it up and smoke
Speaker 1: it in your in your yeah, smoker pipe. I was
Speaker 1: looking for the Native American word for rolling up and
Speaker 1: smoking in your piece pipe. Man. More tigers in Texas
Speaker 1: and there are in India. Wild you love it? Sounds
Speaker 1: all right? Well, great to have everybody, Rick, great to
Speaker 1: have you. Thanks, thanks for me. I enjoyed it. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: Hey check out Rick pack Rat Bushcraft, kick in the beard,
Speaker 1: in the beard Brent Reeves within a we all know
Speaker 1: what that stands for. Daniel Roupe, Oh d R Daniel
Speaker 1: Roupe Dr Daniel Roupe on Instagram and then farm Newcomb Farms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very visually appealing. Yeah Instagram page. You want to see
Speaker 1: some produce and some camera slightly leaning to the left.
Speaker 1: So much better. I just alright, guys, have a great,
Speaker 1: happy New Year. Happy New Year,