Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening n E podcast,
Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther,
Speaker 1: stay longer, All right? Start? What why? Why are you
Speaker 1: guys uncomfortable? How? How I'm sitting at a desk like
Speaker 1: an evening newscaster. Well you have your pants on, right? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: because nowadays there was a time when you could do that,
Speaker 1: but nowadays you need to have I'm at a desk
Speaker 1: with a computer and papers in front of me, and
Speaker 1: it's intimidating to uh Ryan Callahan and Janice Poodles. It is.
Speaker 1: It's seems like we're just not all part of the
Speaker 1: conversation here. I'm not to swivel. Well, I'm leading from
Speaker 1: over here at this desk. Like the old time. There
Speaker 1: was a time when America would tune in at night
Speaker 1: in a and a middle aged white gentleman would explain
Speaker 1: to you what's going on in the world, and it
Speaker 1: was a shared experience, and oftentimes they were pantless. And
Speaker 1: we're hearkening back to those days with me here at
Speaker 1: this desk with these pieces of paper. Um Callahan, do
Speaker 1: you remember the last time we spoke, we talked about
Speaker 1: a fellow by the name of Kaido. Oh. He was
Speaker 1: breaking down how he does sushi salmon. That he berries
Speaker 1: it in kashr salt for eight minutes. So he takes
Speaker 1: a fish flat skin on, berries it in kashr salt
Speaker 1: for eight minutes. There's berries in salt for eight minutes.
Speaker 1: And then rinse is the flay, and that's where you
Speaker 1: how you get buttery. Yeah, I feel like he must
Speaker 1: have broken some unspoken rule, like some smoking mirrors of
Speaker 1: the sushi industry. Everybody's blown away by that. He wrote back,
Speaker 1: he wants you to know this. Yes, that's what he does.
Speaker 1: We did not have it wrong. He says, he does
Speaker 1: half flay's um, leaves the skin on it when he
Speaker 1: salts it. Cat he thinks it controls a little bit
Speaker 1: of the moisture loss. And then he says when because
Speaker 1: you gotta pull the pin bones pull him after you
Speaker 1: salt the flame. So cover the whole flay in salt.
Speaker 1: Count to count what's eight times sixty? That is a
Speaker 1: hard math problem. Count to four and then the count
Speaker 1: to four like one Mississippi four times. Then rinse all
Speaker 1: the salt off, then pull the the then pull the pinbones,
Speaker 1: because he said absolutely no longer than ten minutes. Tracks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he says that when you pull those pinbones, it
Speaker 1: doesn't do any damage to the meat. It's just they
Speaker 1: just slip right out. I've seen that, because if you
Speaker 1: freeze a flay and then pull the pinbones after you
Speaker 1: freeze it, it it does a lot less damage. It loses
Speaker 1: its grip on the pin bones. When you pin bone
Speaker 1: a fresh fish, you're pulling up little popsicles. Yes, bone
Speaker 1: with meat hanging off the end. Yeah, you can make
Speaker 1: him look like junk fast. What he also says is this,
Speaker 1: and I do. I learned this from my old man. Well,
Speaker 1: my old man learned it from Eugene Grotors. Lord knows
Speaker 1: where Eugene grots learned it from. But when he's handling
Speaker 1: salmon flays, and this kind of goes for all fish flays,
Speaker 1: he makes a hole at the tail through the skin
Speaker 1: to make a little finger gripper hole, and that's how
Speaker 1: he handles it. He doesn't carried around by holding the
Speaker 1: meat and doesn't maneuver it that way. He makes at
Speaker 1: the tail cuts a little hole and that's how it
Speaker 1: isn't that isn't that right? Yeah, it's back me up.
Speaker 1: We make a little finger hole and fish flats oftentimes
Speaker 1: to tote them around and to skin him because he
Speaker 1: gives you something to grab onto. He says, he does that.
Speaker 1: This from a this from a full on sushi chef. Um.
Speaker 1: That way you handle the flay, all the stresses on
Speaker 1: the skin and not on the meat. The skin never breaks.
Speaker 1: He goes on to say this Callahan, He says, it
Speaker 1: spells your name right. Loves to use call fat. He
Speaker 1: soaks it in buttermilk to purge it and flavor it.
Speaker 1: He likes to add a tablespoon of old bass spice
Speaker 1: mix to the buttermilk and then soak his call fat
Speaker 1: in air and also his liver. That's gonna make a
Speaker 1: young Ford van Fasten at the First Light office very happy.
Speaker 1: He's a Marylander and he thinks the sun rises and
Speaker 1: sets on old bay. Uh. That's good ship. I like it,
Speaker 1: I mean for like just like an all purpose It's
Speaker 1: right up there with Tony Seas. Oh yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it is very distinct, No, from my desk, from my
Speaker 1: desk in a in a position that would suggest authority
Speaker 1: over those around me, No, Tony sees. I don't know
Speaker 1: why we always called Uncle Tom's seasoning. I have no
Speaker 1: idea where that came from, Like something to do with
Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's cabin. But um, Tony, how does it? Someone?
Speaker 1: You know what? I had some Cajun boys I said
Speaker 1: that one time. Some Cajun boys told me that I
Speaker 1: had it. I was so far off I don't even
Speaker 1: say it anymore. Oh yeah, I get shell shocked by cherries.
Speaker 1: That's not it, Sash. No family is safe when I
Speaker 1: say that's a rock song. But that stuff? You like
Speaker 1: Old Bay as much as that? Yeah, in its place
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, that's because you hang out in North
Speaker 1: Carolina all the time. I like. I eat a lot
Speaker 1: of seafood too, from North Carolina. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: They probably use a lot of Old Bay down there.
Speaker 1: Not a ton My father in law doesn't. He likes it,
Speaker 1: playing it simple, you know. Kido also says this on
Speaker 1: the subject of Morrell's he's talking to you and this, well,
Speaker 1: he's talking to me and this. He spells your name
Speaker 1: right in my name wrong. He spells me Steve ste
Speaker 1: a v e Um. He says Morrell's Yeah, man, you
Speaker 1: gotta rinse them place, don't run water over him. He
Speaker 1: places them in water, let some salt for a while,
Speaker 1: the dirt falls away, and then he lifts them out
Speaker 1: of the water gently. Is a denser than the mushroom
Speaker 1: stuff and will sink to the bottom. And he doesn't
Speaker 1: then use that water. If he does, he just imagine,
Speaker 1: just use the top and not get down in the silt.
Speaker 1: I told you guys this year that the few that
Speaker 1: we found last spring turkey hunting, um, I did the
Speaker 1: steam and freeze method and uh just had them frozen. Bay.
Speaker 1: I froze them on cookie sheets and then when once
Speaker 1: they were frozen and dried, I just threw them into
Speaker 1: gallons ziplock bags and uh, great products. Very happy when
Speaker 1: it came back. I messed around freeze mushrooms. Was never
Speaker 1: that happy about it steaming and freeze. So uh. Another
Speaker 1: little thing I noticed is you really don't have to
Speaker 1: go to cheese cloth if you want to reserve that liquid,
Speaker 1: because as you reduce that all those heavy parts, once
Speaker 1: it gets down to like the bottom inch of liquid,
Speaker 1: they just start plaster into the side of your saucepan.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean it is
Speaker 1: clean as clean as a whistle. Yeah, uh, can I
Speaker 1: tell you a little more? Call fat? A uh emergency
Speaker 1: room doctor wrote in from Jackson, Michigan. He's an emergency
Speaker 1: room doctor in Jackson does an ann arbor. He says
Speaker 1: there's something we need to know about. The couple things
Speaker 1: we should know about. Speaking of call fat, he says
Speaker 1: humans have something similar to call fat Anatomically, it's called
Speaker 1: momentum okay, and it hangs off the greater curvature of
Speaker 1: the stomach and an overweight people, this cann cottain considerable
Speaker 1: size due to fat deposition. When cleaning our dear, he
Speaker 1: gives a basic anatomy class to his hunting tribe and
Speaker 1: reminds him how similar human anatomy is the white tails
Speaker 1: and most mammals for that matter. And he says, there's
Speaker 1: some words we ought to know about for the stuff
Speaker 1: we like to talk about. The paritoneal cavity is everything
Speaker 1: below the diaphragm. The pair it to neil cavity that
Speaker 1: contains below the diaphragm is in uh diaphragm to an
Speaker 1: section Yeah downstream downstream um that's having deliver large and
Speaker 1: small intestines spleen stomach and everything. So the pair ton
Speaker 1: neal cavity when you're gutting a deer is below above
Speaker 1: upstream is the thoracic cavity. This is where you got giosophagus,
Speaker 1: heart lungs, and your great vessels like the aorta and
Speaker 1: vena cavin in Scotland. Hunted in Scotland one time with
Speaker 1: the gamekeeper and they have a thing called like a
Speaker 1: They like they got deer out in the field. They
Speaker 1: got dear only below the diaphragm. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like it's like the word they uses, like the glad.
Speaker 1: I don't know, glad. I'm screwing it up just because
Speaker 1: the diaphragm is holding everything else. All this stuff that's
Speaker 1: gonna sour fast is blow. You get all that out.
Speaker 1: But then in the field you don't got diaphragm up
Speaker 1: anything with the esophagus. They pull that, they cut the
Speaker 1: windpipe or anything like that and pull the windpipe out.
Speaker 1: Remember this stuff is not gonna sit around though, But
Speaker 1: I remember it was like that was He's like when
Speaker 1: you got something, they got it like that, And we
Speaker 1: got the parrot tonal and thrasc we remove the contents
Speaker 1: of both the parrots and neil and thoracic cavities, and
Speaker 1: those guys just removed the contents of the parrot toneal cavity.
Speaker 1: He goes on to have a whole lot to say
Speaker 1: about getting poisoned by mushrooms man harrowing stuff which I'll
Speaker 1: not get into right now. Um quick, oly thing I
Speaker 1: want to touch on just from like feedback to feedback.
Speaker 1: I had two guys right in to say that in
Speaker 1: the old days, no one bled Wally, but now people
Speaker 1: bleed Walleye. This guy says, about ten years ago everyone
Speaker 1: in lake Erie started bleeding Walleye. This guy says the
Speaker 1: same thing. He fishes the western basin of Lake Erie,
Speaker 1: and he says, twenty years ago no one bled Walleye.
Speaker 1: Nowadays everyone bleeds Wally. They're using buckets of slash ice
Speaker 1: and getting real particular about field care in Lake Erie.
Speaker 1: He says, better text your better flavor. When he got
Speaker 1: when he bleeds him, he says, the meats whiter and
Speaker 1: firmer fish last longer. I have not actually been able
Speaker 1: to detect a flavor, and those ultra white fish. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you complain about Walleye about that, well, here's
Speaker 1: how he does. Here's how he handles his walleye. Standard
Speaker 1: practice is unhooked legal fish clip the front of the
Speaker 1: gills with pruners. Picture he's talk about where to come
Speaker 1: up together. Okay, right, blow the chin and then drop
Speaker 1: the fish head first into a five gallon bucket half
Speaker 1: filled with water. Fish and bleed out and dive very quickly.
Speaker 1: Then it's removed and iced. He's enjoying great success with
Speaker 1: that method. That's cool. That's really cool. Now here's the
Speaker 1: guy saying that when he breaks something and gotta fix it.
Speaker 1: He says, so it not with thread, you dumbass, but
Speaker 1: with braided fishing line. Here's a guy. Wants to know
Speaker 1: your guy's opinion on this. It's smart. Yeah, dental floss,
Speaker 1: he says, this is better than donal floss. Downal floss
Speaker 1: strong step, braided fishing line strong. Yeah, but you don't
Speaker 1: flash your teeth. I know, but yeah, I carry donal
Speaker 1: floss and do my field repairs with dental floss. I've
Speaker 1: got field repairs. I made a way ago. I sold
Speaker 1: my sling up a long time ago with dental floss.
Speaker 1: I carry a little mini travel dental floss in my
Speaker 1: kit into the back of that. I stitch a needle
Speaker 1: meant for like fixing sailboat sails. It's got a curve
Speaker 1: to it because little kids carry needles because they think
Speaker 1: they watched Rambo and they think you're gonna sell yourself up.
Speaker 1: I've heard from doctors that that's not the way to
Speaker 1: go about it. When you give yourself stitches, the first
Speaker 1: thing they're gonna do when you get to the doctors
Speaker 1: undo those stitches because it's just not properly cleaned in there.
Speaker 1: You're you're holding holding the nasty stuff. My friend who
Speaker 1: is a doctor, stitched their own dog up one time
Speaker 1: when we were hunting, and they even undid those stitches
Speaker 1: that were done by a doctor to get everything sterile
Speaker 1: in there and then do a redo. But we used
Speaker 1: to all dream because Rambo stitched his arm, and we
Speaker 1: used to all dream of stitching getting it if you
Speaker 1: would be so lucky as to get into a sitchy
Speaker 1: age where you could sell yourself back up, and then
Speaker 1: you could point to it at some party later and like,
Speaker 1: I know that looks a little rough, but understand that
Speaker 1: I did that. I have a um coincidental counter story
Speaker 1: because my cousin was somewhere deep in Colorado, not real
Speaker 1: bad country, but like what do you call it, like
Speaker 1: four World drive back country right across some slick spots
Speaker 1: and whatnot. And they got to a spot and they
Speaker 1: got to a snow drift and there was like some
Speaker 1: trees down and anyways, they're chopping their way through it,
Speaker 1: and he put a hatchet right into his shin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they I don't know the reason that they didn't
Speaker 1: just leave, but they stitched them up and they stayed,
Speaker 1: and uh. He got to the hospital a couple of
Speaker 1: days later, and they were like, good job, excellent, don't
Speaker 1: need to do anything here. Bullshit, really really all right,
Speaker 1: here's one was it? Because they looked at him, they
Speaker 1: were like, well, you're not gonna be able to pay
Speaker 1: for this anyway. So maybe I feel like there was
Speaker 1: an argument to that there was gonna be maybe more
Speaker 1: damage done by going in there and messing around anymore
Speaker 1: and trying to reopen the moon, especially after that, you know,
Speaker 1: the time of whatever forty eight hours or more had
Speaker 1: passed that there was some sort of thinking like that,
Speaker 1: let's say you're out hunting, you're out picture it. Yep,
Speaker 1: I'm setting the scene you're out hunting? How many bullets
Speaker 1: you got with you? This is a great question. What
Speaker 1: is the reasoning for this number? And what arguments have
Speaker 1: guys had on the topic over the years? How many
Speaker 1: bullets are you toting around out in the woods. Can't
Speaker 1: believe we haven't covered this. I cannot believe we've never
Speaker 1: talked about because I have very ah strong conflicted feelings
Speaker 1: on the subject. Do you remember the last second to
Speaker 1: last time we hunted B C. And we were up
Speaker 1: on the mountain and this question just kind of came
Speaker 1: up between Aaron, yourself and myself. All three of us
Speaker 1: had thirteen rounds total days. Do you remember? No? I don't.
Speaker 1: I wish I remembered because that number feels good to me.
Speaker 1: The number feels good to me. It's an unlucky number,
Speaker 1: which I don't believe in. Don't maybe we all have
Speaker 1: thirteen rounds because everyone knows that twenties too many? And
Speaker 1: ten Because here's the thing, I start to, Okay, get
Speaker 1: on a couple of issues. Well you go first. Why
Speaker 1: I'll get around to why I carry thirteen around? Why
Speaker 1: I carry around thirteen? Okay, three rounds in the magazine?
Speaker 1: Oh that's why it's thirteen, uh three rounds in your
Speaker 1: pocket or someplace quick access too in my pack, two
Speaker 1: in my my hip pouch and me and three in
Speaker 1: the mag two in the pouch. You got at least
Speaker 1: two tags on most long huns, so that could be
Speaker 1: you know, one to three rounds per animal if things
Speaker 1: get sideways, and then if you fall on your butt
Speaker 1: and you whack your scope, you want a couple of
Speaker 1: rounds to sight back in with. Right, That's one of
Speaker 1: the things in my head. How that adds up to
Speaker 1: in my brain when I'm packing from my pack, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'll touch on. Two is um
Speaker 1: that there's uh societal collapse while I'm out, and I
Speaker 1: gotta reckon with that. So here I am, society has collapsed,
Speaker 1: ammunition value goes away. I'm like I have, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be residing in the mountains now for the foreseeable future
Speaker 1: until I can sneak my way in and rescue my family.
Speaker 1: So then I got a factor that and add another
Speaker 1: one another boulder two for that. So that's that's your
Speaker 1: like little equation. Yes, that's it. But that would mean
Speaker 1: that if you only had a teg. Let's say you
Speaker 1: don't have a deer tag and elk teg you got
Speaker 1: oh teg, you got oh dear tag? Do you then
Speaker 1: take some out it would be yeah, by that it
Speaker 1: would be reduced by three. Yeah. I mean, so you
Speaker 1: do the you you calculate that carefully. No, I really don't.
Speaker 1: It's just and that's the question. It's like, that's typically
Speaker 1: what I end up with in my between my person
Speaker 1: and my pack. How I get there? I do not know.
Speaker 1: These numbers are definitely more of like backpack, Like I
Speaker 1: can't get back to the truck tonight, Like I'm like
Speaker 1: in there for a week, So if I haven't bought
Speaker 1: my sculp, I gotta deal with it out here. No,
Speaker 1: because I do the same thing even day hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even day hunting. Um, where it's like I leave my
Speaker 1: vehicle before daylight and I know I'll get back to
Speaker 1: my rig after dark. I will find myself still carrying
Speaker 1: around the same number and I'm gonna explain how I've
Speaker 1: come to it or like sort of the loose math
Speaker 1: I'm running in my head. Um, but yeah, what's your number?
Speaker 1: I would say that, Yeah, if I'm out there for
Speaker 1: like if it's like a big hunt and we're backpacking
Speaker 1: staying out there, I'm probably like full mag so if
Speaker 1: that's three or four rounds, and then I've probably just
Speaker 1: got a sleeve of ten um. You know. Lately we've
Speaker 1: been shooting Federal ammo, which but before shooting Federal I
Speaker 1: would just have reloaded stuff. So sort of depend on
Speaker 1: what sort of container I had. So if the container
Speaker 1: held eight, I'd probably have just had eight. But just
Speaker 1: some way that I can organize it. You know, I
Speaker 1: like to run those little stock pouches and sheet um.
Speaker 1: But man, I mean, don't talk about having a play.
Speaker 1: You don't have, no do I have like bullets hanging
Speaker 1: off my stock. It's like a like a bullet losing device.
Speaker 1: Deal looks you know, look so oh you don't care.
Speaker 1: Like the bandelier look no, no, no, it looks so
Speaker 1: put together. And Benny O'Brien was running one of those bandeliers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess what, because he was carrying a honest pitelis
Speaker 1: rigged rifle. It's like I call like an ammunition dispersal device.
Speaker 1: Know that one does have it on the outside, and
Speaker 1: I feel like that is a flaw um. But the
Speaker 1: other one I have, and I think I gave you
Speaker 1: one like that, the one from Pig Tactical. It's zipped
Speaker 1: in the power when I use. When I use that,
Speaker 1: I keep the ones that I would normally keep in
Speaker 1: the hip belt of my pack and the hip pouch
Speaker 1: my pack in that thing, because usually if you're in
Speaker 1: this situation where things got as as I don't know
Speaker 1: who coined the term, but Scott little Western squirrely. And
Speaker 1: when I think they say Western, they're talking about like
Speaker 1: maybe a Western movie shootout. No, I think they mean
Speaker 1: just anything gone haywire. Because people that use people that
Speaker 1: that use uh, they'll use it anything like like people
Speaker 1: will say, um be running lions and like, oh the
Speaker 1: things got a little Western. I when I hear them,
Speaker 1: like oh the dog's got a new fight with a cat.
Speaker 1: If someone packs horses, things got a little Western, Like
Speaker 1: oh the horses freaked out and ran down the hill
Speaker 1: and scattered gear everywhere, gear everywhere. I got all tangled up,
Speaker 1: kick someone in the face. Okay, Well, let's say you
Speaker 1: get into what I'm saying that a synonym is squirrely, yeah,
Speaker 1: or shootout except no, because someone told me they got
Speaker 1: into a shootout, I'd be like I was like holy
Speaker 1: people are shooting back at you. The deer were so,
Speaker 1: but I feel like, um, you want to have those
Speaker 1: extra rounds close and like top of the top pack
Speaker 1: or top pouch on your pack. It's probably kind of
Speaker 1: a close spot. But man on the stock your gun
Speaker 1: is super close to where they need to go to
Speaker 1: get more rounds down range. You know. Um, But I'd
Speaker 1: say for day hunt, I'm probably like full mag plus
Speaker 1: another pocket full of three or four maybe two full max.
Speaker 1: So probably day hunt. If I'm going dawn to dusk,
Speaker 1: i might be down to seven or eight. But if
Speaker 1: I'm going back country for a week or whatever five days,
Speaker 1: then it's uh in that thirteen range full magplus ten.
Speaker 1: Something to think about as far as like your m
Speaker 1: you know, cartridge containers, sleeves, um, you know the ones
Speaker 1: that like hook on your belt and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I've found one time, I've I watched a kid go
Speaker 1: after his mantelope and he had a full box of
Speaker 1: ammunition in one hand, rifle in the other. Stop to
Speaker 1: make his first shot, put the box ammo down and
Speaker 1: continued off into the prairie without his box ammo. Um.
Speaker 1: So I I found that and I just put it
Speaker 1: on his truck hood. Uh, but then I've found two
Speaker 1: other like cartridge containers, like in the back country, like
Speaker 1: going up a trail, and the same exact thing must
Speaker 1: have happened. Somebody stopped, did some shooting. I had to
Speaker 1: pull out their sleeve anu and then took off. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We one time climbed up this is on the Arctic slope,
Speaker 1: like where no one's around, and there's a mound of
Speaker 1: kind of like a like a little like a like
Speaker 1: a little knob, like a little glass and tip with
Speaker 1: a smooth thing on there. And you're out in the Arctic,
Speaker 1: right and climb up there, and sure enough some lost
Speaker 1: couple of bullets up top there, lost couple shells up there.
Speaker 1: But my my thinking at it like I've arrived at
Speaker 1: the same number, and it's it plays out in my
Speaker 1: head like this. I don't want them. I don't need
Speaker 1: a whole box, right, I don't need a whole box.
Speaker 1: So what will happen is I'll put three in my magazine,
Speaker 1: not one in the chamber, but I'll put three my magazine.
Speaker 1: There's three. But then I'm thinking in my head, a
Speaker 1: lot of things could happen. You could even lose the magazine.
Speaker 1: It's happened where you're all hunting if you have a
Speaker 1: detachable magazine all of a sudden. I used to be
Speaker 1: so paranoid about it. I would put my magazine in
Speaker 1: and then I would put a piece of duct tape
Speaker 1: that wrapped up around each side to secure that. Man,
Speaker 1: I was so paranoid about dropping that magazine. Major complaint.
Speaker 1: I think, Well, I had word of those goofy remming
Speaker 1: to Model seven hundreds a long time ago, and it
Speaker 1: had like exposed buttons that would drop the magazine. I mean,
Speaker 1: you'd look at that thing, funny in the magazine would
Speaker 1: come out. So I used to duct tape that thing
Speaker 1: on and I'd put a whole stock on there so
Speaker 1: the duct tape would grab that stock material. And I
Speaker 1: was so nervous about losing that thing all the time.
Speaker 1: I'd click it in there and put a piece of
Speaker 1: tape on it. I can still get it off in
Speaker 1: a hurry, but in a in a situation like that,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be reloading that anyways. Then you're just
Speaker 1: dropping single rounds. And yeah, you know, like I don't
Speaker 1: need it. I don't need to be able to get
Speaker 1: the magazine off in her. I'm not gonna pull them.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna, in the heat of the moment, pull
Speaker 1: the magazine. Now, reload the magazine, stick the magazine back in.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be dropping in singles. But what if
Speaker 1: you had a second magazine, sure, and that's how you
Speaker 1: carried your three extra hounds in your pocket. I still
Speaker 1: wouldn't because then I'd be like, yeah, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: told that magazine round. Then what I do? So I
Speaker 1: got nobody I ever knew until like this day and
Speaker 1: age ever thought the seventy bucks for another magazine was.
Speaker 1: Everybody was like, yeah, that'd be nice, but ever wanted
Speaker 1: to pay it. I just never had a detachable magazine gone.
Speaker 1: But I kind of almost went that route one time
Speaker 1: just so I could because I saw it in action
Speaker 1: once where the dude I was like, I had tagged out.
Speaker 1: The client was like the last day, it was a
Speaker 1: great hunt. We uh in the morning, it's the fifth
Speaker 1: day of the hunt. And in the morning we're all
Speaker 1: jacked up, drinking coffee, getting ready to go out, and
Speaker 1: we got one tag left to go and out walks
Speaker 1: one of the clients and he's got like dress shirt
Speaker 1: on press Khaki's like ready to go to the airport.
Speaker 1: We're like, what's up. He's like I'm done. I'm done.
Speaker 1: It ain't happening for me. We're like, we got a
Speaker 1: whole day, bro, let's go Nope, nope, nope no. So
Speaker 1: it like literally takes us to wait after first light
Speaker 1: until we're like get your gear on. All his buddies
Speaker 1: like rally and we get out there and it's just
Speaker 1: one of those weird mornings where like ten am, there's
Speaker 1: a five point bull out feeding in the quake. He's
Speaker 1: like the first ridgie peak over and we're like, see
Speaker 1: he told you, you know, all you have to do
Speaker 1: is get out here. But Ethan, who you met this
Speaker 1: year in Colorado, was carrying his ax the guy's extra magazine,
Speaker 1: and he shoots, shoots, shoots, shoots, and then literally it
Speaker 1: was like I just saw his hand come up and
Speaker 1: Ethan goes and that extra mag like gets put in there,
Speaker 1: and somewhere down the line of you know, six or
Speaker 1: seven shot, finally he hit him, and UM, yeah, see
Speaker 1: here part of what I'm doing all this like math
Speaker 1: in my head. I don't go out like I'm like
Speaker 1: I need one of these bullets. Like to go out
Speaker 1: making a plan about how much shooting you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: I feel like you've already and as a lab Vian,
Speaker 1: you'll appreciate this. You've already set You've already sent a
Speaker 1: message out into the universe to be like that. You've
Speaker 1: got it all planned out about how much, just how
Speaker 1: many bullets you're ready to shoot. But you don't plan
Speaker 1: for the best of times. You have to plan for
Speaker 1: the worst of time. Hear me out, I am, but
Speaker 1: I'm not going into it. Fixate on how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get maximum rounds out the end of the barrel. Right,
Speaker 1: I put my three my magazine, then I in my
Speaker 1: hip belt. I used to put two in my hip
Speaker 1: pouch on my pack. Now I like to depending my
Speaker 1: binal harness has a little pocket, right, and I'll put
Speaker 1: often one there because that's with me. Like no matter what,
Speaker 1: I don't like to leave my pack. I don't like
Speaker 1: to like get up and be like, okay, you know this,
Speaker 1: next hills the hill, let's leave our packs. I don't
Speaker 1: like to like to keep my pack with me because
Speaker 1: you just never know whe're gonna wind up when things
Speaker 1: go bad. But like I took one there and nowadays.
Speaker 1: I took one there, and I took one in the
Speaker 1: hip pouch of my pack. So I got three of
Speaker 1: the magazine, one right here, one right there, So I
Speaker 1: got them all over to damn place, and then I
Speaker 1: got Then I take a sleeve half of a box
Speaker 1: and that's in my pack. And what I am prepared
Speaker 1: for is if I'm hunting with other people, I'm especially
Speaker 1: like wanting them because I'm picturing that they're gonna cripple
Speaker 1: up something and then we're gonna be trying to chase
Speaker 1: it down. Right. Yeah, So that's one of the means
Speaker 1: I have much. And I'm also mindful of societal collapses.
Speaker 1: We'll think about Rambo too, right to go back there,
Speaker 1: He didn't he pour out gunpowder onto his wound and
Speaker 1: cauterized his wound. I don't. I can start carrying an
Speaker 1: extra one for that, so I carre him for societal class.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna carre him for that. And then, like you said,
Speaker 1: knocking your rifle off and need more. I think about
Speaker 1: that the backpack thing. I say snarky comments when I'm
Speaker 1: hunting with somebody. That's always almost always our tree season,
Speaker 1: and for some reason they dropped their pack and then
Speaker 1: take off after the elk. And what I would like
Speaker 1: to do is leave that pack there and then that
Speaker 1: they would be forced to go learn that hard lesson
Speaker 1: of trying to find their pack in the dark. But
Speaker 1: that would also make me stay on the mountain much
Speaker 1: longer when I'm trying to get out of there. So
Speaker 1: I pick it up and I say something like, yeah,
Speaker 1: some small child forgot their knapsack over there. I was
Speaker 1: talking with someone not long ago who I can't remember,
Speaker 1: who you might remember, leaves tie surveyors tape onto their
Speaker 1: pack to help them find it when they lose it
Speaker 1: because they've left it somewhere. I've done that they're missing
Speaker 1: the greater lesson there. Yeah, you think that, like you
Speaker 1: get up and you think like it's all gonna happen
Speaker 1: right at this little rise, and then you wind up
Speaker 1: hours later in the pitch black miles away without your pack.
Speaker 1: But it don't even take that man. I mean, when
Speaker 1: it's pitch black, it can be fifty yards, but you
Speaker 1: think it might have been two hundred yards like I've been.
Speaker 1: I know that I've been within like seeing distance off
Speaker 1: my pack in the dark and with your head lamp
Speaker 1: and you're just sitting there going ship ship ship. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I do leave my pack, I drop away point
Speaker 1: on my GPS if some real like if you're run
Speaker 1: like a very heavy pack, right and it's just really
Speaker 1: and you need to have like mega optimum stealth right
Speaker 1: day one of a hunt or something. Yeah, and you're like,
Speaker 1: do this pack is too much? Like I can't put
Speaker 1: a creep on right now, I'm gonna have to leave
Speaker 1: the pack. Then, No, that's why they have them. Then
Speaker 1: I'll put some essentials in my binal harness in the
Speaker 1: little pockets and whatnot on there, take a GPS thing
Speaker 1: and throw that unit in my pocket so I can
Speaker 1: go find some bitch when i'm you know, wind that
Speaker 1: way later. Uh cal Yes, this guy we had talked
Speaker 1: about Camo. Andy's remember that this guy wrote, and he's
Speaker 1: got a bone to pick with you. He owns camouflage.
Speaker 1: He owns first like camouflage boxers. But he says both
Speaker 1: times when he's winning to make his order, he tried
Speaker 1: to buy a solid but it was out, and bought Camo,
Speaker 1: and everyone thinks he chose Camlo. So he's like, he
Speaker 1: thinks you have a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy,
Speaker 1: going on there to say that people buy camel. This
Speaker 1: guy is saying that it wasn't his intention, but that's
Speaker 1: what he has. But it's okay because his wife thinks
Speaker 1: it's hilarious. Goes on to say, I'm not calling cattle wire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, not not to say I'm right and he's wrong,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I did say when we first
Speaker 1: started out, that's the way it was like the camera
Speaker 1: went faster than the solids. Now I think it is
Speaker 1: the opposite way, and and I could be totally wrong,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm I'm right there with you. I do
Speaker 1: we have such a limited offering of colors, Like right now,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like into week two of living in
Speaker 1: hotels out of my same bag, so it's I also
Speaker 1: have camouflage on DS with man burned through the other ones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can be like, oh, literally burned dry earth
Speaker 1: is gone. Time to worth fusion. Here's a good letter.
Speaker 1: This is this guy's an attorney. This this is this
Speaker 1: is an attorney, a lawyer with an interesting practice. He
Speaker 1: has a practice focused on hunters, guides and outfitters um
Speaker 1: and wanted to talk about our permissions episode a law practice. Really, Um,
Speaker 1: he I am an attorney with a practice focused on
Speaker 1: helping hunters, guides, and outfitters and numerous ways. Nathaniel is
Speaker 1: his name. Um, he's responding to the Permissions podcast. Most
Speaker 1: like like states have All fifty states have a version
Speaker 1: of the Recreational Use Act. This is helpful for people
Speaker 1: to know. Listen to what I'm saying. If you're at work,
Speaker 1: stopped working, just listen. Um, All fifty states have a
Speaker 1: version of a Recreational Use Act. It confers liability protection
Speaker 1: onto landowners who allow free access to their property for
Speaker 1: recreational purposes. This means, he says, if I go knock
Speaker 1: on the door, which I frequently do in Colorado and
Speaker 1: canvas in Kansas where I hunting practice, and the landowner
Speaker 1: allows me to hunt, fish, hike, et cetera without charging
Speaker 1: me for the privilege to do so, the landowner is
Speaker 1: protected from liability. But recreational what's the word I was
Speaker 1: using again, r U s is, oh, recreational. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: anyhow this liability no, I've not got myself toldly confused.
Speaker 1: But he wants to caution this. It extinguishes the protections
Speaker 1: if there is compensation of quote of any kind given
Speaker 1: to the landowner. If this guy, we had a guy
Speaker 1: right in the letter that he offers the landowners, or
Speaker 1: he says, hey, man, if you let me hunt, I'll
Speaker 1: provide a number of services to you. I will post
Speaker 1: your land if it's not already post. I will pick
Speaker 1: up garbage. Okay, he's gonna do these a he's gonna
Speaker 1: do these favors to the landowner. He's saying, once you
Speaker 1: enter into an arrangement like that, you negate the liability
Speaker 1: protection provided that landowner for giving free access to his
Speaker 1: land because you've now entered into a broker arrangement. Wow,
Speaker 1: and that'd be so hard to disprove or approve one
Speaker 1: way or enough. The compensation exemption would likely not apply
Speaker 1: if the work was done after the season as a
Speaker 1: thank you to the landowner. But if you enter into
Speaker 1: it and say you let me hunting, I'll do this,
Speaker 1: you might not be protected by your landowner, might not
Speaker 1: be protected by his states lie like de facto liability
Speaker 1: waiver of a person who allows free access to their land.
Speaker 1: This guy says, if an individual is going to hunt
Speaker 1: on the land of another in pay or compensate, he
Speaker 1: absolutely advises having liability waivers. He goes on to save
Speaker 1: waivers are a whole can of worms depending on your
Speaker 1: own state. But um, he still advises it. I know
Speaker 1: that a liability waiver is very powerful Alaska. That's not
Speaker 1: him talking, that's me talking. The National Agricultural Law Center
Speaker 1: has a great database on the r US for every state.
Speaker 1: So he's just saying, Um, you can go on to that,
Speaker 1: the National Agricultural Law Center and look up what your
Speaker 1: state covers. If you're a landowner, what all your state
Speaker 1: covers for you with liability when you let people on
Speaker 1: your land for your charge? What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: Good to know, it's good to know, but also nothing
Speaker 1: you would ever put into that landowner conversation. Right, Well, well,
Speaker 1: well I wanted to about I would love to pay you,
Speaker 1: but I cannot because yeah, it's but um, but you
Speaker 1: could add it in, say you got the permission and
Speaker 1: then it was going to be free. Hey, just so
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, I told you i'd feed those cows
Speaker 1: for you. I'm gonna do it in three months. You
Speaker 1: know what I could I could picture throwing it out
Speaker 1: like this, You get a permission, right, there's a feeling
Speaker 1: of mutual goodwill. You get a permis and there's no
Speaker 1: strings attached to the permission, like happy to allow you
Speaker 1: to hunt my place. Son. I could picture saying, Um, well,
Speaker 1: you know what's cool is you know our state does
Speaker 1: have a protection to you. You're giving me free access
Speaker 1: to your land. Um, you're, by state law protected from liability.
Speaker 1: If I wout to hire myself out here, he might
Speaker 1: be like, really great, and that could kind of pay
Speaker 1: it forward for somebody else than he says thank Then
Speaker 1: he might say something like thanks for sharing. Here's the
Speaker 1: guy that spells janice why A N N I s,
Speaker 1: which is a good spelling, not right, but it's a
Speaker 1: good spelling. Fanatically says he's got squirrels coming out of
Speaker 1: his ears in Illinois. He also says this, we often
Speaker 1: talk about doing autopsies on our kills to determine what
Speaker 1: oregans you hit. That's not correct, and autopsy is done
Speaker 1: on a human and the cropsy is done on an animal.
Speaker 1: This guy says, I performed all kinds of the cropsies.
Speaker 1: Luckily I have never had to perform an autopsy, So
Speaker 1: keep that in mind. That kind of falls into my
Speaker 1: cannibal thinking from a couple of months back. You remember that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can preview with me again, but I'm still not
Speaker 1: totally sure how I feel about it. Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: mean it's not bulletproof. Do you remember this here? Honest
Speaker 1: that uh uh folks that say I shot a hole
Speaker 1: in it? Hunting is murder, okay, And well you know,
Speaker 1: we as humans say murders or murderers, but if you
Speaker 1: are a murderer who then eats the person that you murder,
Speaker 1: you are called a cannibal, which is I regard as
Speaker 1: being even worse. I never looked at it being like,
Speaker 1: um like, oh, at least he ate it. Like I
Speaker 1: don't feel like when I hear of a murderer, right
Speaker 1: who then cannibalized the victim, I'm not like, well, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. I do disagree with murdering uh people.
Speaker 1: But however, you know, at least he put it to
Speaker 1: good use. It's like it never enters my mind. But
Speaker 1: those are just our societal standards here. And then you
Speaker 1: go down to uh pop on New Guinea where they
Speaker 1: had you know, some some structure for that. It was
Speaker 1: an important thing for certain age classes. It had like
Speaker 1: religious or spiritual significance. So you're saying, no, you're saying,
Speaker 1: if animal rights person, it's gonna say like, oh, you
Speaker 1: murdered those deer. That the language in some way reflect
Speaker 1: the fact that you ate it and not use that word.
Speaker 1: You want a word akin to the cannibal that you
Speaker 1: that you cannibalized it. Yeah, because I mean is murder
Speaker 1: I mean it is murdering. I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: that's why I float out these big ideas to you.
Speaker 1: Guys can fine tune him for me to stretch him
Speaker 1: in poke them. Cabeza de Vaca, who is perhaps the
Speaker 1: first European head cow. Yeah, Cabeza de Vaca, Okay, He
Speaker 1: was a Spaniard who was shipwrecked um on the Florida
Speaker 1: Peninsula like way early and everyone died off and was
Speaker 1: killed off, and event she was just Cabeza Davaca, and
Speaker 1: he to survive. He started to head west and walked
Speaker 1: all the way to the Spanish settlements in Mexico, probably
Speaker 1: went insane along the way, survived all number of harrowing things.
Speaker 1: It was a long journey picture I'm talking about, from
Speaker 1: the Gulf coast to the Spanish settlements of Max to
Speaker 1: go in the early hundreds, Cabeza Davaca walked it around Houston,
Speaker 1: it seems, around Houston, perhaps became the first European everley
Speaker 1: eyes on bison bison bison otherwise known as the buffler.
Speaker 1: Cabeza de Vaca. One of the groups Cabeza Davaca encountered,
Speaker 1: would they would burn their dead and then make like
Speaker 1: a shake a milkshake of the ash and drink the
Speaker 1: ash like a clay shake. But folks, folk shake. You
Speaker 1: want to read about some crazy ship man, read about
Speaker 1: Cabeza Davaca. I write about him in My Buffalo. But
Speaker 1: we're just thinking the thing like there would be some
Speaker 1: serious backtracking just right now. You try to walk through
Speaker 1: the panhandle of Florida, all the swamps, flakes across the
Speaker 1: miss we've drained so much of that Louisiana saying like
Speaker 1: and he he describes a lot of wildlife. People put
Speaker 1: a lot of stock into like historians when you're trying
Speaker 1: to get a general picture of what was where, they
Speaker 1: put a lot of like faith into what Kabayza Davaca
Speaker 1: described along the way, but he encountered these big kurvey
Speaker 1: horn shaggy haired cattle around what seems to be around Houston. Wow,
Speaker 1: what was the timeline? How long did that take him?
Speaker 1: It was a long ass walk, but I can't remember
Speaker 1: exactly how many months. It's like a three page footnote
Speaker 1: in my Buffalo book, the Saga of Cabeza Davaca, and
Speaker 1: also how he came up, how he wound up with
Speaker 1: that handle. He's raphien st elsewhere though, right it's famous
Speaker 1: because it's like it's like the first glimpse. What people
Speaker 1: are really interested in is the location and prevalence of
Speaker 1: of the location and prevalence of Native American communities along
Speaker 1: the coast, because what you realize is that, you know,
Speaker 1: smallpox traveled ahead of the settlements. So usually when you
Speaker 1: look at like when the Spanish are going into areas,
Speaker 1: when the England later the English went into areas, you
Speaker 1: think of them like they're doing their explorations and they're
Speaker 1: seeing it for the first time, and you think like
Speaker 1: what they're seeing as being what was there. But the
Speaker 1: way smallpox works, like Kabys Davaca probably right introduced disease
Speaker 1: along the way, So oftentimes you'd have to be that
Speaker 1: you'd have a European stumble through some area, but then
Speaker 1: it didn't really get like explored for a hundred years later.
Speaker 1: And now it seems like like when the English were
Speaker 1: going into areas, they were encountering probably about ten percent
Speaker 1: of the humans that would have been there had they
Speaker 1: passed those areas a hundred and fifty years earlier, because
Speaker 1: how many people smallpox carried off. So if you look
Speaker 1: at like what Kabeza Davaca describes as he travels the coast,
Speaker 1: for just like like how many people he's encountering, diferent groups,
Speaker 1: different languages, different cultural practices. And then you go and
Speaker 1: compare that to people traveling that same thing a hundred
Speaker 1: years later, you think they were in a different country
Speaker 1: for what they're encountering one abundance of animals. There's a
Speaker 1: school of thought that believes the abundance of animals is
Speaker 1: much higher later and the presence of humans is much
Speaker 1: much lower, And there's an implied correlation between that d peopling,
Speaker 1: but not kind of historically how we've been thinking about it.
Speaker 1: But that deep interesting that you carried off of the
Speaker 1: human predators. Of course you're gonna see us in a
Speaker 1: hundred of course you're gonna see us. The game of
Speaker 1: spike and game there's a guy. So when you look
Speaker 1: at like, we're Lewis and Clark found the greatest abundances
Speaker 1: of wildlife. Historians later when and looked and found sort
Speaker 1: of the Noman land, the contact, the edges of contact
Speaker 1: between warring tribes. So like the areas that were very
Speaker 1: hostile in environments seem to be the areas. This is
Speaker 1: just a theory someone has that We're Lewis and Clark
Speaker 1: described the greatest abundance of game where the border lands
Speaker 1: between warring tribes. So you'd get to where the like
Speaker 1: you'd get to a buffer of the Crow and black Feet,
Speaker 1: right and that sort of no man's land between their
Speaker 1: two core territories, you would find a lot of games.
Speaker 1: It's very dangerous to hang out in that spot because
Speaker 1: when you were in that area, you were in the
Speaker 1: war zone. Yeah, I'm shaking my head because this is
Speaker 1: like it makes total sense that it has never been
Speaker 1: explained that like the Headwaters region of the Missouri and
Speaker 1: you've read that, like just doing your Montana history right,
Speaker 1: and it was like, oh yeah, and then Blackfeet carry
Speaker 1: off sue here and Nez person would come over. But
Speaker 1: so that that Headwaters region of the Missouri was like
Speaker 1: a hotly contested ground where like you had the crow
Speaker 1: would come from the south and go up in there.
Speaker 1: The black Feet would come from the north and weston
Speaker 1: going there to the Lakota would would come from the
Speaker 1: eastern range there. And if you went in there, you
Speaker 1: were gonna be mixing it up with other folks. And
Speaker 1: it was just and it was like a game rich environment.
Speaker 1: Here's something interesting. We're talking about morality on a podcast
Speaker 1: quite a while ago. You were there the Bozeman event. Oh,
Speaker 1: the live event. We're talking about what makes a good person? Uh,
Speaker 1: which is way off topic for us, but we're talking
Speaker 1: about what makes a good person. My brother brought up
Speaker 1: something called the cants categorical imperative. Okay, he didn't explore it,
Speaker 1: but he touched on it. And this guy writes in
Speaker 1: to take to kind of take that idea to task.
Speaker 1: He's saying that um can's categorical imperative it was a
Speaker 1: way to determine the morality of an action by imagining
Speaker 1: the consequences of any individual action if it was a
Speaker 1: universal law. So he says, let's go out and set
Speaker 1: out to prove why littering is wrong. Okay, so to
Speaker 1: to apply Kansas categorical imperative to it, you would say, well,
Speaker 1: what if everyone littered, what would the world look like? Right,
Speaker 1: So he goes, Therefore, you can arrive at the fact
Speaker 1: that littering is immoral. If everyone did it, it would
Speaker 1: be a total ship show. My kids have a book
Speaker 1: called What If Everyone Did That? And one of the
Speaker 1: things that explores is what if everyone littered? What if
Speaker 1: everyone like talked out of turn? Which is another problem
Speaker 1: we have on this show. So uh so he goes
Speaker 1: on to say, so if you want to prove he
Speaker 1: goes more, he goes on to that he brings us
Speaker 1: around the hunting. He says, most arguments against hunting tend
Speaker 1: to be based on irrational emotions, are preconceived assumptions. But
Speaker 1: when you apply the categorical imperative to it, it does
Speaker 1: make it seem in his view that hunting becomes immoral
Speaker 1: because he says, what if everyone hunted? But he hasn't
Speaker 1: thought about it good enough, because just the fact wouldn't
Speaker 1: you hunt. You're still subject to the laws. So if
Speaker 1: everyone hunted, we wouldn't have It wouldn't mean that there's
Speaker 1: more death. It doesn't mean there's more death and less game.
Speaker 1: It would just means you have greatly reduced opportunity because like,
Speaker 1: if everyone hunted, I was like, okay, so that means
Speaker 1: everyone now has to apply for all the tags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we will all draw a lot less tags. But it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't make like you can't use cancers categorical
Speaker 1: imperative to say huntings immoral, because if everyone hunted, all
Speaker 1: the animals would be dead, because in this country it's
Speaker 1: all regulated. If everyone hunted, it would just mean that
Speaker 1: there's like a lot less opportunity and you're gonna wait
Speaker 1: in the longer line to get your bit of access.
Speaker 1: A lot more cash for state agencies, a lot more
Speaker 1: cash for state agencies, which makes it seem more moral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see what he's going for, but he just didn't
Speaker 1: think it through far enough. Guy's name is Brad. Generally
Speaker 1: had good luck. I've generally had very good luck with
Speaker 1: Brad's in my life. Interesting, I'm thinking particularly of Brad
Speaker 1: Cross and Bradchester, who were both big BMX guys growing
Speaker 1: up when I moved Rad and Rad rhymes with Brad.
Speaker 1: When I see the name Brad, I generally feel like
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like like like I would like the guy.
Speaker 1: They already starting up with a little bit of credit,
Speaker 1: you know, Brad Brad trying to come in and hit
Speaker 1: his heart with Kansas category comparative. Do you any thoughts
Speaker 1: on that? You honest, I don't, Yeah, because that, you know,
Speaker 1: really just nothing. Everybody litters. Well no, I mean I
Speaker 1: think he stands. But that crosses the boundary of well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's gonna be higher fines for littering, but
Speaker 1: if everybody just keeps littering, that doesn't quiet hold water. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess if everybody poached. Yes, we've already arrived at that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Kancers category impair to my Um, here's a good one.
Speaker 1: This guy is aware of the fact that there are
Speaker 1: Turkey Grand slams. I don't know if he's aware of
Speaker 1: the fact that I happened to be a Turkey. A Turkey,
Speaker 1: I can remember what turkey slam I have? Thank you
Speaker 1: have this grand the royal. No, we're gonna figure it out. Okay,
Speaker 1: So slams. A lot of people hate slams, and for
Speaker 1: very good reason because it introduces an element. Look, I
Speaker 1: gotta backup. Uh, there's slams are a thing that someone
Speaker 1: made up or another someone or another made up this
Speaker 1: idea that you'd go like, Okay, there's different kinds of turkeys,
Speaker 1: and if one were to get one of all those
Speaker 1: kind of turkeys, that person would be a slam holder. Okay.
Speaker 1: So with with turkeys, there there's a thing called a
Speaker 1: turkey Grand Slam and to get it. So there are
Speaker 1: five five yis holding up four, but there's five a
Speaker 1: grand okay, is there just America Grand Slam? There's there
Speaker 1: are five subspecies which some people say aren't actually subspecies.
Speaker 1: There are five types of wild turkeys. You have the
Speaker 1: eastern of the Eastern US. You have the Osciola of
Speaker 1: the southern half of the Florida Peninsula. You have the
Speaker 1: Ariams and Rio from the southwestern US. And then you
Speaker 1: have the Goulds turkey from northern Mexico and the Sky
Speaker 1: Island Mountain ranges of southern Arizona, New Mexico. If you
Speaker 1: were to get and the ghouls is kind of the
Speaker 1: hardest one to get because of availability, Like most people
Speaker 1: who get a Google turkey get it in Mexico. So
Speaker 1: a grand slam is that you get the four kinds
Speaker 1: of wild turkeys. That are around and widely available in
Speaker 1: the US. A royal slam is if you get the
Speaker 1: Goulds too. A world slam is if you go down
Speaker 1: and get another whole other species of turkeys, which is
Speaker 1: called the oscillated not to be confused the osceola, the
Speaker 1: oscillated turkey, which is down in the Yuka tam Peninsula, Guatemala,
Speaker 1: you know the Mayan areas, there's the oscillated um. So
Speaker 1: that's the world slam, and that's a whole other bird
Speaker 1: they used to think there used to be. There's possibly
Speaker 1: was a sixth subspecies of turkey called the Mexican turkey,
Speaker 1: and that is the one that's probably been domesticated for
Speaker 1: thousands of years, and that's the one that when the
Speaker 1: Spanish conquistadors came to the New World. That is the
Speaker 1: domestic turkey that the Aztecs had probably doesn't didn't even
Speaker 1: maybe didn't even exist in the wild at the time,
Speaker 1: but that was where they derived the domestic turkey, which
Speaker 1: was then taken back to Europe and is the domestic
Speaker 1: turkeys we know today. So turkeys were are a New
Speaker 1: World species. They were domesticated thousands of years ago by
Speaker 1: indigenous groups in Mexico in Central America, Europeans came borrowed
Speaker 1: the birds, took the birds back to Europe, bred up
Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy variants on the wild turkey, and
Speaker 1: then brought those back to the New World, reintroduced them
Speaker 1: and asked, when you going buy a turkey in the
Speaker 1: grocery store, that's what you're buying. And they think that
Speaker 1: that original domestication was perhaps a turkey subspecies that is
Speaker 1: no longer around. I think some people think it was
Speaker 1: the Goulds. Maybe it was the Goulds. The question being
Speaker 1: that this guy has is um, why is there a
Speaker 1: deer elk Grand Slam? Can I add one thing about
Speaker 1: the Super Slams or this all the slams here with
Speaker 1: the turkey thing, because I was just on the National
Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation website and they have a Canadian Slam
Speaker 1: if you kill all available birds in one province of Canada,
Speaker 1: which is a Canadian Slam, Yeah, or one too, And
Speaker 1: then the Mexican is uh gold Rio and uh no,
Speaker 1: Miriam's all down in Mexico really, so there's okay, there's
Speaker 1: more turkeys around. But then there's a super Slam, which
Speaker 1: is the all states besides Alaska and uh. And the
Speaker 1: reason I mentioning this is because I was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's gotta be freaking hard right. Well, the last time,
Speaker 1: according to the books here on the NTF, back up,
Speaker 1: back up, you didn't, I got I got confused, um
Speaker 1: because looking at something else. But there's other slams too though,
Speaker 1: for turkeys you didn't get into, like grand right, Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought you covered that. Okay, so you're doing just
Speaker 1: the ones and the one that you hadn't covered. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so tell me again the name you had it right
Speaker 1: that you're saying a name for getting a turkey in
Speaker 1: all fifty states as of what us super slam, U
Speaker 1: s super slam. I'm jealous of someone that's done that.
Speaker 1: I can't explain why. Listen, there are according to these records,
Speaker 1: there's eight people that have done it, killed a turkey
Speaker 1: and forty states. I like, my brother, is what I
Speaker 1: explained this to them. They just they can't even begin
Speaker 1: to understand. They don't like anything that. They don't like
Speaker 1: anything where you introduce a sports type mentality like a
Speaker 1: keeping track sports e competitive stuff as um. Thomas McIntyre said,
Speaker 1: it's pissing in the cathedral. Yeah, in their opinion, But
Speaker 1: I like it a little teeny bit. I like it
Speaker 1: a little too. I like it for the I feel like,
Speaker 1: if that's the way you're gonna go and travel the
Speaker 1: United States and get to go to different states and
Speaker 1: meet the people in every nine states and see forty
Speaker 1: nine different landscapes of turkeys live in, like, it's well
Speaker 1: worth it, well worth thing to get into, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, by the end of it, if you were
Speaker 1: to kill a turkey in all four nine states, you
Speaker 1: would have killed turkeys in eleven states that did not
Speaker 1: historically have turkeys, right because they think at the time
Speaker 1: of European contact we had turkeys and maybe thirty nine states.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so in that way to go stressed that
Speaker 1: you'd be like looking at like just how good turkeys
Speaker 1: are doing. But the dear one, I didn't know, y'all's
Speaker 1: gonna break down. What's up a deer? Well, like I
Speaker 1: thought before I did my little ten minutes research here,
Speaker 1: it's like there's this idea of a deer slam out there,
Speaker 1: floating around, floating around, But like somebody uh involved with
Speaker 1: q d m A, they tried to go with a
Speaker 1: white tail slam and our buddy Mark Kingyon actually wrote
Speaker 1: a piece on it five years ago and uh where
Speaker 1: they break down eight subspecies of white tail across our continent.
Speaker 1: That that's not Yeah. So again, that's why I'm saying,
Speaker 1: it's like this idea that people are pushing for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: but it's never really because they wanted to become a thing.
Speaker 1: They wanted to become a thing. Same thing with the
Speaker 1: with the regular uh, not the white tail slam, but
Speaker 1: the regular deer slam would be Columbia blacktail, sick of blacktail,
Speaker 1: regular white tail? Whose white tail mule deer? Right five,
Speaker 1: I've done that accidentally, Right, I'm an accidental deer slam holder.
Speaker 1: Now I'm one away cal but I'm far off the mark,
Speaker 1: far off the mark. Uh. But the reason some people
Speaker 1: don't like this is the argument of oh, you're just
Speaker 1: a collector. Yeah, that's maybe what I was trying to
Speaker 1: say earlier. Yeah. Uh, I'm gonna start saying, not that
Speaker 1: i've I'm gonna make it into a food thing. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say that I have eaten I have to the
Speaker 1: royal slam. Be Like, what's that be? Like, I've eaten
Speaker 1: all um, I've self harvested and eating all five subspecies
Speaker 1: of turkey man turkey tetrasini out of everyone. Okay, ready
Speaker 1: for this one. There's nothing I'm not asking you does
Speaker 1: add anything to this. It's just a thing this guy has.
Speaker 1: This guy hunts the Texas hill country, cool country. I
Speaker 1: think you know his family owns, you know, fifty some
Speaker 1: acres of prime hill country. Over his life, he says
Speaker 1: that it's become that. Um, he's just seen a lot
Speaker 1: of change over his life as the whole place has
Speaker 1: become fenced. His subject line is high fence is screwing
Speaker 1: my fair chase. He says, when you drive down the road,
Speaker 1: you're driving down corridors between high fences. And he says
Speaker 1: it just has had dramatic impacts on sort of the
Speaker 1: movements of deer and has really kind of like put
Speaker 1: the screws to someone who doesn't fence, just the interruption
Speaker 1: of deer movements. And he also gets into the interruption
Speaker 1: and then the other things that have happened on the land,
Speaker 1: like introducing exotics onto your fence property just has really
Speaker 1: changed the area in his opinion for the worst. UM.
Speaker 1: He tried to bring all this up on a thing
Speaker 1: called the Texas bow Hunter form and got thrown off.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Interesting. I have been on those lanes though.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you guys have to driving down
Speaker 1: between the fences. Yeah, you know, I haven't really spent
Speaker 1: that much time there. Yeah, buddy ars has A has
Speaker 1: a place out there, and gone hunted with him a
Speaker 1: couple of times. And his place is not high fence.
Speaker 1: But in order to get to his place, that that
Speaker 1: is the scene that pops in my head. Right, you
Speaker 1: got ten ft tall chain link fences on both sides
Speaker 1: of the road, and so if an animal did want
Speaker 1: to move around, they have to basically walk down a
Speaker 1: very very thin shoulder or right down the middle of
Speaker 1: the road to go from there is no point A
Speaker 1: to point B. Right, it's all following some you know,
Speaker 1: ranch map from a hundred years ago. Or the flip
Speaker 1: side of it is is that there's probably if you
Speaker 1: went and tallied up the number of deer, there's probably
Speaker 1: more dear than before. They just lived differently. They don't
Speaker 1: move around as wild animals anymore. But like, it's not
Speaker 1: that there's it's not that you probably can't go and
Speaker 1: look and be like, oh, it's there's no dear, there's
Speaker 1: tons of deer that has all been turned into livestock. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that. Yeah, and so something like the numbers,
Speaker 1: like the number, like you can't say the species is
Speaker 1: hurting because they're probably doing fantastic. Like each one of
Speaker 1: these fence places probably more dear than it did in
Speaker 1: the past. Real they wouldn't be fencing it, but they're
Speaker 1: just not. Like some of their wildness is gone because
Speaker 1: they can't roam. Be interesting to see it. Like how
Speaker 1: much corn go like silage corn goes to the state
Speaker 1: of Texas because it's such a heavy you know feeding uh,
Speaker 1: you know game feeding state. Really Yeah, the number of
Speaker 1: like the pound or like the calorie count, how much
Speaker 1: food comes in. And then again, man, it's like that
Speaker 1: in some ways everybody's got it up and downs because
Speaker 1: in some ways that ship makes the desert bloom too, right,
Speaker 1: because like a lot of wildlife feeds off that. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of wildlife feeds off that cycle just different, right,
Speaker 1: it's different. Some some people might go and look like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: got a lot more quail now than we did, probably
Speaker 1: way more water. People do water bring in a bunch
Speaker 1: of corn, You bring a bunch of food and you
Speaker 1: bring in a bunch of water. So people might look
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, man, we know have a lot
Speaker 1: more quail than we did when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: We got a lot more haviolina than we did when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. We got a lot more white
Speaker 1: tail deer than we have when I was a kid. Um,
Speaker 1: there's just like the landscape is supporting a larger biomass
Speaker 1: under the system of all of the feed where you're
Speaker 1: turning like marginal habitat, you're taking like what's missing, Like, well,
Speaker 1: what are the things that are missing that would make
Speaker 1: this just place? Ex blowed with numbers, You're like, well,
Speaker 1: food and water. Okay, well let's fix it. Let's bringing
Speaker 1: food and water. You wind up with something like very different.
Speaker 1: But you can't really readily going and just attack it
Speaker 1: from top to bottom because if you just if you're
Speaker 1: going like, well, how are we going to quantify the
Speaker 1: health of the ecosystem, Let's do it by counting up
Speaker 1: how many pounds and animals are running around out here.
Speaker 1: You look at that and you'd be like, it's made
Speaker 1: a big improvement. There was a lot more poundage of wildlife.
Speaker 1: But our people might be like yeah, but everything about
Speaker 1: like the way it uses the landscape, how it's moved,
Speaker 1: just all the dynamics. You know, you've interrupted all that.
Speaker 1: And some people might be like, hey, you're right, well
Speaker 1: there's the negative, and then they would be like, but
Speaker 1: a lot of animals, every life is so complicated. That's
Speaker 1: what I found. Kl Um. This guy, we're talking about
Speaker 1: shooting fawns. Someone's like, what's the morality behind shooting fawns? Now,
Speaker 1: I'm saying I don't. I don't think there's any it's
Speaker 1: not a moral there's no moral decision to be made.
Speaker 1: This guy writes in to say that we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: harvesting animals that haven't achieved skeletal maturity because you're not
Speaker 1: getting maximum output out of the animal. He thinks it's
Speaker 1: premature to shoot a fawn m hm, to pull so
Speaker 1: you shoot. We're talking about a falling, talking about like
Speaker 1: a deer drops around Memorial Day, right, and then you
Speaker 1: shoot in the fall. You know, like you don't have
Speaker 1: to hear people say they shot a buck. This just
Speaker 1: like real basic stuff for people who aren't tuned into
Speaker 1: this kind of junk. You know, people say, like people
Speaker 1: talk about deer like they'll be like, I killed the buck.
Speaker 1: He was one and a half, he was two and
Speaker 1: a half, he was three and a half. The reason
Speaker 1: they're always throwing in the half is because they're born
Speaker 1: in the spring and typically hunted in the fall, so
Speaker 1: you always got like the half. So people say they're
Speaker 1: shooting a phone, but the really time was just shooting
Speaker 1: a six month old thing. And you're talking about a
Speaker 1: species of the life expectancy are too. It's not that little,
Speaker 1: but it's little. You always hear like deer of the
Speaker 1: year or fawn of the year, faun of the year
Speaker 1: born that spring. So when you shoot one and the
Speaker 1: thing way it's sixty pounds or whatever, and you get
Speaker 1: a forty you know yield, right. Um, he's saying that,
Speaker 1: it's just like a premature harvest. Yeah, and I thought
Speaker 1: we kind of covered that. That was kind of one
Speaker 1: of my grips with even shooting cafe elk. Everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the veal of the veal. I'm like, yeah, but you
Speaker 1: get like fifty or sixty pounds, man, And if you
Speaker 1: shoot a two year old cow, you're almost double than
Speaker 1: that usually for sure. I like his term skeletal maturity
Speaker 1: here's a hard one to answer. This guy wants to
Speaker 1: know Adam um mixed experiences with atoms throughout my life.
Speaker 1: Warning to give him the benefit of the doubt, he says, like,
Speaker 1: do you think each state has its own hunting subculture?
Speaker 1: Does the state have a hunting culture? I would say
Speaker 1: no for states, but regions? Do you think so? Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: Definitely expand on that, man, Um, I guess either works, right,
Speaker 1: you can't. Yeah, go ah, I've grappled with that in
Speaker 1: the past. You can expand or expand. I don't carry, honny,
Speaker 1: what everyone seems wrong hunting culture by region or by state? UM,
Speaker 1: I think that you could probably find a little like
Speaker 1: nuances about hunting culture in certain states and be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just like a total Idaho thing, you know, But
Speaker 1: it probably more more likely you'd be able to break
Speaker 1: the country across like the classic regions of northwest, southeast, northeast,
Speaker 1: you know, Midwest, UM, and sort of find things that
Speaker 1: are you know, uh, maybe tactics that are more accepted
Speaker 1: one place or another, Like you and I grew up.
Speaker 1: I don't know, did you guys? Do money drives deer drives?
Speaker 1: So where you brought that up because I was the
Speaker 1: guy rolled in and wanted to know the morality of
Speaker 1: deer drives, like, I mean, that's like, that's how I mean.
Speaker 1: I was kind of I grew up in deer drive culture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we do. I mean we did. It was funny
Speaker 1: because you just like you go right from the evening
Speaker 1: before you'd still be in full archery mode, setting up
Speaker 1: stands and hunting deer on the ground and trying to
Speaker 1: get close. And then the next day you would just
Speaker 1: like flip the switch and it's like dudes just pushing
Speaker 1: through the woods running deer and you're you know, taking
Speaker 1: running shots at deer. I mean I killed my first
Speaker 1: deer and he was screaming and buy me at ten
Speaker 1: or fit twenty yards, you know. And we didn't switch
Speaker 1: into drive mold. We had a ten day or two
Speaker 1: week rifle season whatever it was. Um, we didn't switch
Speaker 1: into drive mold to the last couple of days, and
Speaker 1: you were kind of an a hole if you were
Speaker 1: out driving deer early in the season. We do. We
Speaker 1: do opening. We would sit opening morning for two to
Speaker 1: three four hours. Doug they have like in Wisconsin and
Speaker 1: the Doug during property dug during family property they have
Speaker 1: a light drive, a gentle drive that they call the moot.
Speaker 1: They'll start mooching the second day of the season. But
Speaker 1: it's a gentle drive. It's not like dudes lined up
Speaker 1: banging pots and pans and stuff, you know, which is
Speaker 1: we kind of grew up driving deer, not with pots
Speaker 1: and pans. But it was like, yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: lot of guys in the woods, but that okay, couple
Speaker 1: of a couple of your guys camp stuff too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the car, the camp that you went to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna bring up just a couple of differences
Speaker 1: that I've seen between just the two regions that have
Speaker 1: hunted a lot in, which would be the Midwest and
Speaker 1: then the Inner Mountain Rockies. Um, but like uh, deer
Speaker 1: poles or meat hanging polls. Right, Like, we have a
Speaker 1: picture of every single year that I've been at that
Speaker 1: Wisconsin deer camp, of most of the deer unless someone
Speaker 1: left early and took theirs, but hung up on a
Speaker 1: pole and all of us standing in front of it.
Speaker 1: And it's like a picture that's taken not really to
Speaker 1: like be like, oh, look at everything we killed, but
Speaker 1: it's sort of just it commemorates in UM archives the hunt,
Speaker 1: right and like who was there? How many deer were killed,
Speaker 1: so that you know it was a good year bad
Speaker 1: here um attracts time, yeah, but a lot like so.
Speaker 1: And then if you compare that to out West, like
Speaker 1: deer drives and I think meat poles are by a
Speaker 1: lot of like Western hunters are kind of considered like
Speaker 1: not not cool, you know, not part of the culture. Yea,
Speaker 1: not part of the culture. Well, the deer drive thing,
Speaker 1: like we did some some drives here and there for
Speaker 1: the large part, I would say, completely unsuccessful. But you're
Speaker 1: dealing with bigger chunks of ground, right typically, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just not as manageable because you're generally driving like
Speaker 1: when you're doing deer drives, you're driving places that have
Speaker 1: way more dear per unit of space then you're gonna
Speaker 1: have in the West, and we always had way fewer people. Two.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if you really want to find success
Speaker 1: on a drive, the number of hunters you have to
Speaker 1: have has to be way higher, and we just never had,
Speaker 1: you know. That's why the whole deer camp thing it is.
Speaker 1: So it was always so weird to me in the
Speaker 1: West because it was like, yeah, where everybody together artist
Speaker 1: artisans small batch drives too. Like the first deer I
Speaker 1: killed when I was third team was on an artisans
Speaker 1: small batch drive. There's a four man drive, and that's
Speaker 1: when you know how the deer, you know what they do,
Speaker 1: you know how they respond. So like there's this creek,
Speaker 1: Mosquito Creek, and there's this big sort of bend in
Speaker 1: the creek, and when deer get bumped out of that bend,
Speaker 1: they go up, you know, the second ridge down every year,
Speaker 1: and every year someone's gonna kill a deer coming out
Speaker 1: of that bend in the creek going up that second ridge.
Speaker 1: And so then it just as a matter of you say, hey,
Speaker 1: at ten, I'll post up on the ridge and you
Speaker 1: go down in the big band and you know it's
Speaker 1: gonna work. You can't do it the next day, it
Speaker 1: definitely won't work, but every year it'll work. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: that's like a kind of a different sort of drive
Speaker 1: in the big pop bang and drives. You could also
Speaker 1: do um. A subculture that I used to struggle with
Speaker 1: but now I understand it is when you see hunting
Speaker 1: pictures from Arizona in Utah, why how there's so many
Speaker 1: people in the picture like a Gripp and Grin and
Speaker 1: Arizona gripp and Grin will have a dozen guys Utah
Speaker 1: the same way. And I used to be like, why
Speaker 1: is that? Then I realized it's because they you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have huge populations of wildlife there and it's
Speaker 1: hard to draw tags. So to draw like an Elk
Speaker 1: tag in Arizona is you know, if you live in
Speaker 1: Arizona and you draw an Elk tag, it's a big deal.
Speaker 1: And a lot of your bodies didn't draw an Elk tag. Yes,
Speaker 1: so if you want hunt every year, so helping somebody out, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we now that we like have friends in Arizona
Speaker 1: who are have sort of a tribe, you know, like
Speaker 1: a group of guys that hang out with it they
Speaker 1: hunt with. When one of them draws, it's just a
Speaker 1: it's a thing that yeah, we're all gonna do it.
Speaker 1: So if some so draw some sweet elt tag, everybody
Speaker 1: wants to get involved and everybody wants to go hunt.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, he's got eight barties that
Speaker 1: all want to go too because someone's got his tag. Now,
Speaker 1: if you get up in a state like like Colorado
Speaker 1: with like you know, vastly more elk than the other state.
Speaker 1: Everybody's got a ELK tag. Yours out hunting onesies, twos,
Speaker 1: these threezies. You don't need to have eight guys because
Speaker 1: those eight guys all got their own tags. You're like,
Speaker 1: you do your thing, I'll do mine. It's more individualistic.
Speaker 1: But it's like a communal form of hunting down there.
Speaker 1: And that's why you see these big packs of dudes
Speaker 1: standing behind some animal. I couldn't do it. Drive drive
Speaker 1: me insane. Well they also but they also radio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they radio hunt down there. Yeah. So Jennie, what you're
Speaker 1: doing is everybody's out glass and um theyroreout glass and
Speaker 1: and then when they find something they just through text
Speaker 1: messages or radios convey its location. Yeah. It's just like
Speaker 1: a way, it's like a hunting culture. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: I Understandyeah, I imagine it'd be very successful for me.
Speaker 1: It would just like lead to paralytic indecision, information overloading. Yes,
Speaker 1: and then you got like that like again, like that
Speaker 1: South Texas hunting culture where there's no public land or
Speaker 1: virtually no public land. Um, it's general practice to use
Speaker 1: corn to bring to your out of an area that's
Speaker 1: otherwise very difficult to find them and to concentrate them.
Speaker 1: There's general practice to huntt of elevated tripod stands or whatever,
Speaker 1: elevated platforms, and it creates like a sort of culture
Speaker 1: around that. That's like how deer hunting works. Uh. We
Speaker 1: were down at the Dallas Fire Club Show a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and unbelievable amount of Texas residence saying
Speaker 1: we're going out and we're gonna hunt public land this year.
Speaker 1: And they're all going out of state, lots of New Mexico, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming,
Speaker 1: some Montana, but all like I gotta go try out
Speaker 1: this public land hunting stuff because we just can't do
Speaker 1: anything around here. Yeah, pretty cool to see. Here's another
Speaker 1: one guy named Patrick. I've always had great luck with
Speaker 1: Patrick's uh plan to hunt the future and have a
Speaker 1: question that's yet to be Oh, this guy's never even
Speaker 1: been hunting. It's not been addressed anywhere. He's sure after
Speaker 1: looking everywhere. Why does no one mention harvesting the diaphragm
Speaker 1: from a deer or elk We've not even kind of true,
Speaker 1: but no one's mentioned it. Yeah, skirt steak, So when
Speaker 1: you got it's just small on the deer. Like when
Speaker 1: you open up a deer, where the diet for am
Speaker 1: fastens to the rib cage, there's sort of like a
Speaker 1: little like the diaphragm kind of t bones. This makes sense.
Speaker 1: It kind of t bones into the rib cage and
Speaker 1: there's a big piece of of of stride it or
Speaker 1: like stringy kind of meat that's long and thin. It's
Speaker 1: like a like a Hershey's bar would be like four
Speaker 1: Hersh's bars or two three Hershey's bars set end to
Speaker 1: end right diameter in length to hers She's bars laid
Speaker 1: end to end, let's say. And that's where the diet.
Speaker 1: That's how the diaphragm joined to the cavity. Now that
Speaker 1: skirt steak, is it a continuation of the diaphragm or
Speaker 1: the skirt steak it's like the diaphragm from the ribs back. No,
Speaker 1: it's like the diaphragm sort of goes out and that's
Speaker 1: how it's sort of welded, which is an anatomical term.
Speaker 1: But the diaphram kind of welded to the the the
Speaker 1: body of the animal. And when you go and get
Speaker 1: uh carne a saba that's in a Mexican restaurant, that's
Speaker 1: what you're getting. And on deer, it's just really small
Speaker 1: on elk and moves. It's like legit, like you can
Speaker 1: make like full on balls out fajitas with the skirt. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone who takes like the who
Speaker 1: who does anything besides maybe grind up the actual diaphragm.
Speaker 1: But that skirt steak portion is usable, which is the
Speaker 1: one that you're talking about that basically flaps below the
Speaker 1: ribs going back. It's very close to below the ribs,
Speaker 1: but it's it's yeah, it's kind of like where our
Speaker 1: our ribs really start to v and and angle back.
Speaker 1: That's where the the right right at the syphoid process
Speaker 1: where the ribs come together. Yeah, so I think on
Speaker 1: do you just don't really notice because it's really small
Speaker 1: and moves. When you open that thing up, you're like,
Speaker 1: holy ship, that's a big chunk of meat. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you guys aren't answering my questions. Still, that could
Speaker 1: be it doesn't taper back like it's but you know,
Speaker 1: when you when you got an animal. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 1: you're calling that then the flank steak, yes, and then
Speaker 1: the skirt being a diaphragm yes, Oh the flank, yeah
Speaker 1: is the well and I always grew up calling the
Speaker 1: paunch m yeah, which should be your sides blow your ribs,
Speaker 1: but above your hip bone, below your ribs. Or's this
Speaker 1: this thin thing the paunch? We call that the paunch
Speaker 1: that you just grind up. It's low quality meat and
Speaker 1: has a very strong bit of fashion in there, or
Speaker 1: like a like a thick. It's where love handles form. Yes,
Speaker 1: there you go. No, yeah, I'm pinching mind. I believe
Speaker 1: that's where it would be. I've been putting a lot
Speaker 1: of work in love. It is really a thing like, yes,
Speaker 1: you're like I need something to grab onto, grab on
Speaker 1: the love handle. Oh no, no, no, I think that's
Speaker 1: a marketing spin one. Okay, it's like an ironic, is it?
Speaker 1: Because it just seems like like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just have a hard time with it. That's the hand
Speaker 1: that that's when one needs purchased. That's where they find it.
Speaker 1: Oh man, um, quickie, there's a quickie. There's a quickie,
Speaker 1: then a quickie, then a long. This first quick is
Speaker 1: a question, second quick is the observation. The third long
Speaker 1: is just a whole different thing. Uh. This guy says
Speaker 1: to say, how do you sharpen your knife found in
Speaker 1: the field. He talks about he's got a bench made
Speaker 1: saddle Mountain skinny knife, which is a damn fine knife.
Speaker 1: Agreed Um. He goes on to say that how a
Speaker 1: bench man has a deal where you can send your
Speaker 1: knife in and get it sharpened, which he likes. But
Speaker 1: let's say you're out hunting and you've gotta you're gonna
Speaker 1: be skinning a couple of different animals. How do you
Speaker 1: what do you how do you sharpen out in the field? Well,
Speaker 1: bench mate also makes you use their sharpeners. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: happens a little one of the big one. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: think the big one is well worth packing if you're
Speaker 1: gonna really stick with a true fixed blade knife. And
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it's called, but it's got a
Speaker 1: ceramic part to it. It's got kind of a course
Speaker 1: and a fine diamond sharpener on there and and yeah, man,
Speaker 1: a little minimal bit of practice and you can sharpen,
Speaker 1: I mean sharp sharpen those things. Yeah, it's a little
Speaker 1: it's a little heavy and a little clunky, but it
Speaker 1: depends what you're up to, Like, if you're out hunting
Speaker 1: where you're you know, let's say you and your buddies
Speaker 1: are out hunting anilope you're not one or two a day. Um,
Speaker 1: then I'll be like, okay, this warrants bringing like more sharpening.
Speaker 1: If just going out on for one thing, I don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. I used just carry like a little
Speaker 1: just like basically a little teeny teeny diamond hone it.
Speaker 1: But it's like you get so much more to have
Speaker 1: an actual yes, an actual face to to sharpen on.
Speaker 1: If you bring a multitool of some sort, you can
Speaker 1: use the hard edges on that, you know, straighten out
Speaker 1: the edge of your of your blade, which is typically
Speaker 1: more than enough to keep you keep you running. I
Speaker 1: feel if you want to be minimalist, you know, and
Speaker 1: you're bringing that. What I like about them that bench
Speaker 1: made deals. It's got the angle so it's like molded
Speaker 1: into it. There's there's like a big diamond honer, not big,
Speaker 1: there's a diamond honer face on it, but molded into
Speaker 1: the molded into the sharpener is the is a set bevil.
Speaker 1: So each swipe you take you can lay it up
Speaker 1: on that beveled piece and it sets your angle. You
Speaker 1: gotta doesn't hold your angle. You gotta maintain the angle
Speaker 1: as you swipe, but it establishes your angle to go
Speaker 1: on there and sharpener up. It's got like a little
Speaker 1: leather strappy thing on and a ceramic rod on it.
Speaker 1: I don't know what. It's called guided field sharpener and
Speaker 1: it's got a hook sharpener on it. Guided field sharpener.
Speaker 1: Thea you can sharpen sread knives, scissors. We all know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways of skin of cap. There's
Speaker 1: more ways to sharpen a knife. This is one of them,
Speaker 1: and it's like I like it. But if you take
Speaker 1: a brand new blade out of the box and you're
Speaker 1: careful with it, it does not take much at all
Speaker 1: to get that thing sharp sharp if you don't mess
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I think that's the key, is uh,
Speaker 1: staying on top of your maintenance. Don't let it get
Speaker 1: doll Yeah. And what dolls knives more than anything in
Speaker 1: the whole wide world is bone. Mm hmmm, and dirt
Speaker 1: hair bone is bad hair. Dolls bone messes up. Get
Speaker 1: some mud in that hair when you like, can you
Speaker 1: watch your buddy come in, you know, come into like
Speaker 1: kind of shank or something off and you're like, oh boy,
Speaker 1: that's not I think the knife ruining. This activity I
Speaker 1: know about is when you're skinning out ahead for like
Speaker 1: whatever whatever reason you're doing it, caeping something or skinning
Speaker 1: it out for a euro amount, and you get your
Speaker 1: knife in there and you're working the you're working off
Speaker 1: the hide around the pedicles. Yeah, that's a knife ruining activity.
Speaker 1: That's almost like throwing knives at rocks. Oh here in
Speaker 1: the knife the blade hit the teeth too. That just
Speaker 1: send shivers up my spine just thinking about it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I can usually carry the little they called the tacticle sharpener.
Speaker 1: They have a mini version too, but it's only a
Speaker 1: couple three inches long. It's got the ceramic V notch yeah,
Speaker 1: and the stone. So I just use that little V
Speaker 1: notch and just you know, through an elk, maybe hit
Speaker 1: it two, three, four times and uh, just to keep
Speaker 1: an eye on her, just keep her straight. Keeper. What's
Speaker 1: that thing called? I have one of those two. I
Speaker 1: carry it if I'm like, if I can't justify my
Speaker 1: big thing, it's called the tactical. If I can't justify
Speaker 1: my big full on sharpener, then I'll grab that little
Speaker 1: V notch. Deally but I like, I kind of like
Speaker 1: became suspicious of those V notch dealis, I think you
Speaker 1: can unless you take the time to really line that
Speaker 1: thing up perfectly vertical and the V notch, you can
Speaker 1: kind of mess your devil edge up a little bit. Uh.
Speaker 1: Here's the observation that was the question. Here's the observation.
Speaker 1: This guy says, you guys were struggling with a term.
Speaker 1: I think you were trying to refer to the Alley effect. Now,
Speaker 1: the Allee effect, because when you're talking about a population
Speaker 1: not being able to recover from low numbers, meaning there
Speaker 1: are like critical population levels at which certain social aspects
Speaker 1: important for reproduction begin to break down. So mean, like,
Speaker 1: let's say you have a large um, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a reproductive strategy called predator swamping. For instance, Let's say
Speaker 1: you have like like picture a large collection of say geese,
Speaker 1: and these geese all lay their eggs at the same time,
Speaker 1: and hundreds of geese, and they're all in an area,
Speaker 1: they all build a nest at the same time, they
Speaker 1: all lay their eggs at the same time, all those
Speaker 1: eggs hatch at the same time. There will be a
Speaker 1: lot of predators lurking around, But since all of those
Speaker 1: hatchlings all emerged together at the same time, it's called
Speaker 1: predators swamping, where the predators can gorge themselves and gorge
Speaker 1: themselves and gorge themselves, but they can't get them all
Speaker 1: because they're all hiding the ground at the same time.
Speaker 1: Whereas let's say it took the same of the same
Speaker 1: set of circumstances, but let it play out over a month,
Speaker 1: where every day just some percentage of of these eggs hatched,
Speaker 1: and the predators could every day gobble up the small
Speaker 1: available thing, you would end up where they could feasibly
Speaker 1: get them all. But with predators swamping, you're creating such
Speaker 1: a like a a deluge of offspring getting put out
Speaker 1: there that the predators can't They just don't have a
Speaker 1: chance of getting them all during that that window of vulnerability.
Speaker 1: So likewise, if you'll see the like like elk, for instance,
Speaker 1: will sometimes gather up in very large groups, like you
Speaker 1: might see two hundred three hundred cows in their calving grounds,
Speaker 1: and those calves are all hitting the ground over of
Speaker 1: course of a couple of days, preferably right, and you've
Speaker 1: got some predators hanging around, but they can't get them
Speaker 1: all and then the calves are very vulnerable for a
Speaker 1: couple of days um, but then they're up on their
Speaker 1: feet and everybody's find they can run in. The ulnerability
Speaker 1: goes down and you have some survival. So the alley effect,
Speaker 1: they're only effect is when you reduce a population down
Speaker 1: and then to wind up being that it's hit like catastrophe,
Speaker 1: low levels like that. You can't just have some. Either
Speaker 1: have to have a whole bunch, or you're gonna have none,
Speaker 1: because they need lots in order for them to be
Speaker 1: able to survive. I can't remember what we were talking
Speaker 1: about when this came up. Was it the condor condor
Speaker 1: It's applicable to a ton of things. Passenger we definitely
Speaker 1: talked about long ago by name with the passenger pigeon,
Speaker 1: that maybe that species. If you don't have a billion,
Speaker 1: you don't have any Like you can't maintain a population
Speaker 1: of ten thousand passenger pigeons because passenger pigeons need to
Speaker 1: have hordes of them in order for them to be
Speaker 1: socially effective or to be reproductively effective. Final one is
Speaker 1: this final thought for the day. A guy wrote in
Speaker 1: and he's like, curious about is it worthwhile putting in
Speaker 1: for the buffalo hunts in Montana, which are a mess,
Speaker 1: but I think it's worth while. So there's a couple
Speaker 1: of buffalo hunts you're looking. There's a gardener hunt in
Speaker 1: the West, Elstone hunt. It comes up every year where
Speaker 1: you have uh buffalo or bison are summering in Yellowstone
Speaker 1: and the winter, late winter, as the snow accumulates, they
Speaker 1: need to migrate out. And when they migrate out, they
Speaker 1: crossed the park boundaries and entered private land in national
Speaker 1: forest land. And there's a debate. There's this this argument
Speaker 1: that's a perennial argument that goes on around this where
Speaker 1: legally the animals aren't regarded as wildlife in Montana. Um
Speaker 1: they regarded once they go from being their wildlife in
Speaker 1: the park, even though their native fauna that have been
Speaker 1: present on the ground always it's like a native land mammal,
Speaker 1: native game animal, I would like to say, um. But
Speaker 1: when they leave the park, they lose their status is
Speaker 1: wildlife and they fall under right right now, to varying
Speaker 1: degrees that they fall under the jurisdiction of the Department
Speaker 1: of Livestock. They fall under the jurisdiction of the Department
Speaker 1: of Livestock because they carry brucellosis, which is a livestock
Speaker 1: disease that cattle passed to buffalo, and now buffalo carry brucellosis,
Speaker 1: and they don't want the buffalo passing the brucellosis back
Speaker 1: to cattle. And so a state, you know, they enjoy
Speaker 1: brucellosis free status, and if the disease were to cross
Speaker 1: the species barrier back in the other direction once again,
Speaker 1: you'd have brucellosis in Montana livestock and you have to
Speaker 1: start doing all this testing and quarantining and it's very expensive.
Speaker 1: So they don't want brucellosis getting back in livestock. Forget
Speaker 1: about all that for a second. Um. One of the
Speaker 1: things that they do, one of the things that the
Speaker 1: state has been experimenting with and trying to do for
Speaker 1: a long time, is treating him like lives, treating him
Speaker 1: like wildlife. So they migrate out of the park, they
Speaker 1: cross in the national forest land. Here you have a
Speaker 1: resource that has value to people as food. It's a renewable,
Speaker 1: sustainable resource. And so the state will issue through a
Speaker 1: lottery permit, draw some limited number of hunting permits. And
Speaker 1: it's uh controversial. Can be a controversial hunt. There can
Speaker 1: be situations where there's not a lot of privacy while
Speaker 1: you're hunting. There can be a fair bit of hand
Speaker 1: holding going on and like letting you know when they've
Speaker 1: left and where they are. It's not perfect, but I
Speaker 1: think people should participate in it and and engage in
Speaker 1: it and get the most out of that that they can,
Speaker 1: including a whole shipload of great buffalo meat, for the
Speaker 1: reason that it is a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1: And by that I mean it's a step in the
Speaker 1: direction of managing this herd as native wildlife that can
Speaker 1: support some amount of consumptive use. You have people that
Speaker 1: want the meat, the population can support limited harvest. It
Speaker 1: might not be perfect, but hunters should get in there
Speaker 1: and be engaging in it and putting in their two
Speaker 1: cents and doing the hunt and helping hunt, letting hunt
Speaker 1: managers know, like what they liked about it, how it
Speaker 1: could be different in the future, and not just turning
Speaker 1: your back on it. Because this is a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction. It's good that they're conducting these hunts.
Speaker 1: He wants to know if I would suggest three eight
Speaker 1: the huntee, you know, look into it. I put in
Speaker 1: form I put an inform and I've been down there
Speaker 1: observing the hunt before. It's something that we just need.
Speaker 1: I think it's nothing we need to be doing. There's
Speaker 1: no negative to it at all. And the more we
Speaker 1: can do to encourage states to recognize and manage these
Speaker 1: animals as as a big game species, the better. So
Speaker 1: take one for the team and go down there and
Speaker 1: do the hunt. What's the worst it comes out of it?
Speaker 1: You walk home with three hundred pounds, four hundred pounds
Speaker 1: of bones meat, and if you draw the tag, you
Speaker 1: can give it up, Like if you all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you're like, boy, I mean over my head, you
Speaker 1: can give it up. But yeah, th where you're happening
Speaker 1: the ring. But the hunts occur at a time of
Speaker 1: year when no one's hunting anyway, so you be able
Speaker 1: to round up all your bodies, like, dude, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go out. We're gonna you know, it's kind of it's
Speaker 1: a hunt, it's a management thing. Um, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: the most out and we're all gonna walk home. We're
Speaker 1: all gonna walk with a hundred pounds of boneless heck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Larry, get down there, bro, Thanks for joining US,