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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamor PhD student twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: volunteers to babysit ends up she tortures her dear friend's

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Speaker 1: twin baby boy dead according to reports, and now she's shocked.

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Speaker 1: She may be punished. That's right.

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Speaker 2: In that jurisdiction on death row, there.

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Speaker 1: Are no women, much less a glamorous young PhD student.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 3: A Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a longtime

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Speaker 3: friend to babysit. Matters take a turn for the worse.

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Speaker 1: I know how difficult it is to have twins, to

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Speaker 1: give birth to twins, to keep them alive. The twin

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Speaker 1: baby boys had been yearned for, sought after for so long,

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Speaker 1: and now mommy and daddy. Amazingly, this occurred on daddy's

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Speaker 1: first Father's Day and Mommy's and daddy's anniversary.

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Speaker 2: What exactly happened? How did it all start?

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Speaker 4: Listen Calling nine to one one around eleven to fifteen pm,

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Speaker 4: Nicole Versey tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from

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Speaker 4: a bascinette and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive.

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Speaker 4: When police arrive at Versy tells police she falls asleep

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Speaker 4: with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up,

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Speaker 4: she goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for

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Speaker 4: the baby. While she is out of the room, she

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Speaker 4: hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with

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Speaker 4: a bump on his head. She tells police he fell

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Speaker 4: out of his bouncer seat.

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Speaker 1: Fell out of a bouncer see you know, the bouncy

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Speaker 1: kind that you have the baby with a seat belt

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Speaker 1: buckled in. We all start panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first straight out to

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Speaker 1: Gabriella de Luca, investigative news reporter on television WPXI. Gabriella,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. A couple of quick

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Speaker 1: questions that I'm going to move forward. The bouncy seat.

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Speaker 1: It's my understanding. It was eighteen inches off the ground,

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Speaker 1: that little bouncy seat. That one is that correct? Eighteen inches?

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Speaker 5: Effectives came in and actually measured the top of that

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Speaker 5: seat to the bottom and it came out to eighteen inches.

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Speaker 5: But keep in mind, when Versie first called nine to

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Speaker 5: one one, she actually said that it was a bascinette

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Speaker 5: so we have a bouncy seat.

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Speaker 2: You're right on again, Gabriella de Luca.

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Speaker 1: I was just headed toward the possibility that a child

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Speaker 1: could bounce out like a trampoline of a bouncy seat.

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Speaker 1: And I had both of my twins had bouncy seats.

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Speaker 1: They had the swings, they had the bouncy seats, they

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Speaker 1: had it all. They come with seat belts that said

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Speaker 1: eighteen inches. And I didn't know where that eighteen inch

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Speaker 1: number came from, and you just enlightened me.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to get to the conflicting stories in a moment.

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Speaker 1: And you know how I feel when people change their stories,

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Speaker 1: not add to their story.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, changing your story not so much.

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Speaker 1: But the eighteen inches, No, how can you have this

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Speaker 1: massive degree of brain injury from falling this far this far?

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Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. Okay, So that's where we

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Speaker 1: leave off. Let's take a look at the right to

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Speaker 1: the hospital.

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Speaker 6: Listen, Rush to the hospital. Doctors discover Leon Katz has

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Speaker 6: a severe skull fracture to the left side of his

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Speaker 6: head and multiple brain bleeds. The jury suffered by the

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Speaker 6: six week old baby proof fatal, and he's pronounced dead.

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Speaker 6: The next morning at Children's Hospital. Police say Bercy has

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Speaker 6: no plausible explanation for the severity of lee injuries. Examining

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Speaker 6: the bouncer seat, detectives report that it's about eighteen inches

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Speaker 6: from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Gabriella de Luca from WPXI told us that, and I

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Speaker 1: guarantee you those measurements are correct in a situation like this,

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Speaker 1: joining me an all star panel. In addition to Gabriella

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Speaker 1: de Luca WPXI, I want to go straight to a

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Speaker 1: longtime colleague now friend, the esteemed chief Medical Examiner of

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Speaker 1: Terran County that's Fort Worth, and I can guarantee you

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Speaker 1: this never a lack of business for the medical Examiner

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Speaker 1: and Dallas Fort Worth area. Also a lecturer at the

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Speaker 1: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 2: Joining us, Doctor.

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Speaker 1: Crowns, thank you for taking time out of your schedule

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Speaker 1: and addressing this issue. Many of us have heard of

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Speaker 1: c HI closed head injuries. I coined CH eight eye

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Speaker 1: closed head homicidal injuries, close head injuries that end in

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Speaker 1: homicide charges.

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Speaker 2: But before I get to that, anacronym I want to

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Speaker 2: talk to you.

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Speaker 1: About the possibility of the severity of baby lenn. Oh.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I'm going to circle back to Gabriella

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Speaker 1: de Luca because the other baby is also injured. This

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Speaker 1: couple has two children like me, two twins like me,

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Speaker 1: their infants. One is rushed to the hospital and the

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Speaker 1: other has severe injuries to its genitals. Okay, this woman

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Speaker 1: steps in the apartment, everything's fine, and in five hours

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Speaker 1: everything's gone haywire. Wow, what's the common denominator there? Her, her,

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Speaker 1: the babysitter, the glam as many people call her, not me, them,

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Speaker 1: the glamors. PhD student doctor Kendall crowns the likelihood of

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Speaker 1: baby Leon's injuries to be that severe from one fall

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Speaker 1: from an eighteen inch bouncy seat.

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Speaker 7: Closed head injuries from eighteen inch fall is highly unlikely.

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Speaker 7: If a child was to get closed head injuries from

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Speaker 7: a fall of that nature, then when they're learning how

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Speaker 7: to walk and they'd fall, we'd have a lot more

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Speaker 7: at children having closed head injuries. So another thing you

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Speaker 7: have to think about is a baby's skull is kind

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Speaker 7: of pliable because they're still growing and it hasn't turned

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Speaker 7: a full bone yet. So really, an eighteen inch fall

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Speaker 7: could have startled the child, could have made him cry,

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Speaker 7: but it shouldn't have caused any injuries internally whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: When you're seeing that, it's chang showdown, Slow down, Slow down,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. I can see I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: to work with you before I put you on the stand.

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Speaker 2: Because everything you said is so probative for me, every sentence,

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Speaker 2: and I don't want to rush it.

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Speaker 1: I'm usually ninety mph, but when you talk, I need

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Speaker 1: to dissect every sentence. Now you mentioned something about a

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Speaker 1: baby of this age head not being fully formed.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? Number one? And number two? What

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Speaker 2: does it help me prove? If anything? That's really all

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Speaker 2: I care about when it comes to facts. Can I

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Speaker 2: use it in court? Is it provative? Does it prove anything?

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Speaker 7: So baby's skull at that age still has what are

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Speaker 7: called fontenelles or soft spots, and they're kind of at

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Speaker 7: the top of the head, a little bit towards the back,

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Speaker 7: and that's so the baby's head.

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Speaker 1: One of the baby hair swirl is we can do

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Speaker 1: how the hair starts a little swirl back here.

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Speaker 2: You call that a.

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Speaker 7: Fontanel, fontanele yeah, So as the child's head. As a

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Speaker 7: child matures, their brain gets bigger, the skull itself grows

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Speaker 7: with it. A skull at this time period isn't fully

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Speaker 7: hardened bone. It's bone, but it's still kind of very pliable,

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Speaker 7: so it can take a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 7: changes like cartilage. Somewhat somewhat like cartilage, but it's not cartilage.

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Speaker 7: It's just very young bone. But anyway, it's very pliable.

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Speaker 1: Does it have the elasticity of cartilage like the cartilage

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Speaker 1: in your nose or your ear?

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Speaker 2: Is it and I know it's bone, but is.

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Speaker 1: It elastic or pliable or movable like the carlage when

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Speaker 1: in your ear.

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Speaker 7: Yes, baby's culls are very bendable. They can take a

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Speaker 7: lot of change in shape or deformation and they won't break.

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Speaker 7: So when you see a skull fracture or a close

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Speaker 7: head injury with a baby, there's a lot of force

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Speaker 7: behind it. It isn't going to be from an eighteen

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Speaker 7: inch fall, because if it was, all of us would

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Speaker 7: have died from head injury as babies, because we all

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Speaker 7: have falls. So when you see an injury like that,

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Speaker 7: you know that there's some sort of slamming force or

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Speaker 7: something like that that has occurred.

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Speaker 1: Do you you said it's practically impossible for baby Leon?

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Speaker 1: And remember he's just six weeks old. He's the one

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Speaker 1: with the severe skull fracture to the left side of

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Speaker 1: his head, with multiple brain bleeds. Ari is the twin

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Speaker 1: with a bloody, mysterious injury to genital's penis, swollen bruises

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Speaker 1: below the belly button, and scratches on his face. I'll

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Speaker 1: get to that in the moment. But these two little boys,

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Speaker 1: you're saying it's almost impossible or is it impossible for

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Speaker 1: child six weeks old can't crawl to fleeing, eject himself

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Speaker 1: from a car seat from a baby bouncer eighteen inches

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Speaker 1: in height, and die, to put it simply.

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Speaker 7: With some sort of congenital abnormality or first effect. Yes,

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Speaker 7: it's impossible for that to have occurred.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we already know that none of that existed.

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Speaker 7: So it's impossible.

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Speaker 2: Trying to get a defenitive.

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Speaker 1: Look, I'm a JD, not a DDS, don't know how

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Speaker 1: to pull teeth, but I do have a set of

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Speaker 1: pliers here. So are you saying it would be impossible.

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Speaker 7: For him to have ejected and have enough force or

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Speaker 7: velocity or speed to hit the ground and break his

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Speaker 7: skull and get hemorrhage of his brain and he's completely normal. Yes,

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Speaker 7: that would be impossible.

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Speaker 1: Right now, so many thoughts are colliding in my head,

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Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful for you, doctor Kendall Crowns, because

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the little baby brother growing up his

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Speaker 1: whole life knowing he had a twin that was killed.

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Speaker 1: The parents this happening on the first Father's Day and

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Speaker 1: their anniversary.

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Speaker 2: And from then on out on that day, how can

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Speaker 2: they sell it?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 1: Baby Ari's birthday on the day that Leon was killed.

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Speaker 1: How can they celebrate their anniversary on that day? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm projecting a lot, doctor Kendall Crowns, but

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Speaker 1: I know on August six, the day that my fiance

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Speaker 1: was murdered.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. This is crazy, right, and I'm not.

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Speaker 1: Superstitious at all, but I feel like whatever I do

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Speaker 1: that day is just going to.

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Speaker 2: Be jinxed and wrong.

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Speaker 1: I don't like my twins driving, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: take a trip just I can't really describe it. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. But I'm glad I've got you and

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Speaker 1: the rest of our guests to keep me grounded in

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Speaker 1: these facts and not project So back to the injuries.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 9: Doctors tell investigators about the injuries suffered by Leon's twin

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Speaker 9: brother Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of

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Speaker 9: his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising,

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Speaker 9: redness and scratches to his genitals. The doctor who examined

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Speaker 9: the injuries to both boys says they are consistent with

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Speaker 9: having been sustained as a result of child abuse, as

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Speaker 9: these are inflicted injuries that are not natural and not accidental,

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Speaker 9: noting that all of Leon's injuries were acute acute.

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Speaker 1: Gabriella du Luca has all the facts leading up to

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Speaker 1: this moment, but I want to quickly address closed head

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Speaker 1: homicidal injuries.

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Speaker 2: I want to go straight out.

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Speaker 1: To doctor Melissa Merrick, President CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America,

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Speaker 1: and you can find her at Prevent child Abuse dot org. Okay,

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Speaker 1: doctor Merrick, thank you for being with us. Many people

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Speaker 1: are suspicious of closed head injuries, especially close head injuries

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Speaker 1: that result in death and subsequent homicide charges. You look

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Speaker 1: at the baby, and the baby seems fine because it's

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Speaker 1: closed head.

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Speaker 2: The head is not split open. Explain this, yeah, thanks,

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Speaker 2: it can be.

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Speaker 10: You know, we think about child abuse and we think

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Speaker 10: that there will always be a brew, a bruise or

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Speaker 10: a broken bone or something that we can see and

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Speaker 10: we know that there was harm. But actually, especially in

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Speaker 10: babies this young, under the age of one, that's the

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Speaker 10: time that's riskiest for child abuse. The most prevalent and

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Speaker 10: most of our child abuse deaths happen under the age

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Speaker 10: of one, and that's because, as you said that, some

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Speaker 10: of the injuries you don't see, so like shaken baby syndrome,

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Speaker 10: for example, that's a serious brain injury resulting from forcefully

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Speaker 10: shaking an infant. And like doctor Crown's already explained, you know,

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Speaker 10: the baby's brain is pliable and still working out, and

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Speaker 10: you shake all that up and brain cells can die.

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Speaker 10: There can be permanent damage and even death. Never ever

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Speaker 10: shake a baby because we may not see it, but

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Speaker 10: it can really cause tremendous arm.

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Speaker 1: Exactly now. Kelly Hymen joining us. A renowned trial lawyer

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Speaker 1: and TV legal analyst. She's the host of Once Upon

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Speaker 1: a Crime in Hollywood. That's a podcast. Kelly, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Everything Melissa just said, doctor Merrick

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Speaker 1: said is correct. This is not a shaken baby syndrome incident.

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Speaker 2: But everything she said was correct.

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Speaker 1: Is it difficult to prove the case when a jury

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Speaker 1: looks at a baby's picture and it doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: anything's wrong with the baby.

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Speaker 2: All the damage is internal.

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Speaker 11: Experts are going to be key in this case, Nancy.

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Speaker 12: So the experts are going to take the witness stand

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Speaker 12: and tell a story and tell exactly what happened and

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Speaker 12: what transpired. Now, the defended is innocent until proven guilty,

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Speaker 12: and they will have a time to cross examine that

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Speaker 12: person and poke holes in that. But that that is

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Speaker 12: going to be key in order to substantiate the case,

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Speaker 12: because the state brings the case the commonwealth and they

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Speaker 12: have the burden of proof and need to prove every

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Speaker 12: single element of the crime. And the experts are going

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Speaker 12: to be key taking the stand and telling what happened

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Speaker 12: from their perspective.

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Speaker 3: Savanna and Ethan Katz and trust longtime friend Nicole Versy

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Speaker 3: to care for newborn twins. Then Versy calls to inform

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Speaker 3: them of strange injuries found on one of the babies.

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Speaker 1: That was just the beginning. I've got to understand the

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Speaker 1: timeline here. Let me go to Gabriella de Luca, investigative

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Speaker 1: TV news reporter wp XI. Gabriella, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Let me understand this. When you first read

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Speaker 1: a headline about this, it always says babysitter.

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Speaker 2: She wasn't really the babysitter.

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Speaker 1: She was a very dear family friend going back several

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Speaker 1: years and on her break from school where she was

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Speaker 1: getting her psych degree psychology degree, she got a break

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Speaker 1: I guess spring break, and chose to use that break

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Speaker 1: to visit the cat's family.

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Speaker 2: Now she is in school.

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Speaker 1: And she teaches spin classes. Correct the bicycle spin classes, right,

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Speaker 1: that's what she does.

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Speaker 5: That's what we understand.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Gabriella.

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Speaker 1: So she comes to visit, she wants an airbnb just

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Speaker 1: a few blocks away from the cat's family, and goes

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Speaker 1: over to visit, and the next thing you know, all

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Speaker 1: HGWL breaks loose. She hasn't been in that house over

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Speaker 1: an hour before. Let me just say it hits the fan.

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Speaker 1: Give me the timeline, Gabriella de Luca.

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Speaker 5: So here's what we understand. Investigators are saying that she

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Speaker 5: came into town and from what we are gathering, she

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Speaker 5: came to almost have a celebration again. It was Father's Day,

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Speaker 5: it was the anniversary, and you have these beautiful twin

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Speaker 5: baby boys. Well, you know, I have twins myself. You

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Speaker 5: know how tired and nancy so do you, So you

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Speaker 5: know how tired, You get kind of get the idea

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Speaker 5: that she's there to help out. So the mother, I believe,

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Speaker 5: goes down for a nap. According to police, So it's

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Speaker 5: the father and this woman who are taking care of

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Speaker 5: the babies that day. I understand that she is, according

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Speaker 5: to police, changing the baby's diaper, Ari's diaper in the

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Speaker 5: hallway of their rooms.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, did you say mommy's taking a nap.

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Speaker 5: Yes, mom, according to police, was taking a nap.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, And you know I didn't know you were

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Speaker 1: the mama two twins.

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Speaker 2: That's a luxury.

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Speaker 1: That's unbelievable that in the middle of the day you

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Speaker 1: get to close your eyes for forty five minutes together.

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Speaker 1: So the mom's taking a nap and then the next thing, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, what happens.

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Speaker 5: What we understand from police is that Nicole is changing

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Speaker 5: the baby's diaper and then notices these injuries to the baby.

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Speaker 5: We're talking scratches, bruises below the belly button, and then

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Speaker 5: some sort of injury to the baby's genital area. There

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Speaker 5: was swelling, and there was also blood in the diaper.

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Speaker 5: She apparently tells, according to police, the father of the

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Speaker 5: baby about these injuries. And that's the father right there.

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Speaker 2: That is probative.

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Speaker 1: That proves something to me, Gabriella de Luca.

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Speaker 2: She's the one that tells the father because.

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Speaker 1: See a lot of people will say, oh, well, the

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Speaker 1: father was with the baby. No, the father was not

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Speaker 1: with the baby. The colversy was with baby. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about baby Arii, the baby that lived. And she runs

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Speaker 1: and tells the dad, I'm with the baby and I

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Speaker 1: found this injury to his genitals. Now hold on genital injury, scratches, bruising,

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Speaker 1: swell on face, belly button scratches and genitals.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So she runs and tells the dead and there's

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Speaker 2: blood in the baby's.

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Speaker 5: Dipy, that's what police are saying. And she tells the

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Speaker 5: dad this and then the dad, apparently, you know, as

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Speaker 5: a parent, calls the doctor's office, calls the pediatrician, and

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Speaker 5: you know he's on the hotline. You know how it is,

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Speaker 5: you can't get through. You're waiting on the hotline.

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Speaker 2: What do I do?

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Speaker 5: What do I do? And he the guidance is to

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Speaker 5: take the baby to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's kind of what they always say. Thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on one other one while I'm

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Speaker 1: going down a rabbit hole. Here, Doctor John Delatory joining me,

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist and mediator specializing in forensic psychology, and you

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Speaker 1: can find him at resolution FCS dot com.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Delatory.

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Speaker 1: As I understand the facts, she volunteered to go change

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Speaker 1: the dipy, Gabrielle.

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Speaker 2: Is that true? He says, she changed a diapy. Yes, okay, so,

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Speaker 2: doctor Dolatory. Have you ever seen those people that create

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Speaker 2: a problem and then they fix it and then they're

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Speaker 2: the hero? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 2: They place themselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they place themselves at the location of.

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Speaker 2: The incident, be it a crime or not a crime.

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Speaker 1: She volunteers to go change the dipy, and then she says, ohoh,

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Speaker 1: his penis is swollen, there's blood in his dipy. He's

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Speaker 1: got scratches on his face. None of that was apparent

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Speaker 1: when she arrived. You think mom is going to go

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Speaker 1: take a nap with the baby's penis swollen and blood

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Speaker 1: in the dipy and scratches.

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Speaker 2: All over him. No, no, the dad.

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Speaker 1: No, They go in, they see the babies, and it's

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Speaker 1: then Mom says, okay, I'm taking a nap. The baby

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Speaker 1: was fine, no scratches on the face. This happened after

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Speaker 1: she volunteers to change the diaper. I know that's a

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Speaker 1: small fact, a subtle, but very critical fact in this

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Speaker 1: scenario and timeline.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, and Nancy, what you're describing is what's called factitious

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Speaker 13: disorder biproxy. Used to be called Munchausen syndrome biproxy, And

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Speaker 13: I think that's the key element here, because sure, you

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Speaker 13: could probably hide the injuries that are happening underneath the diaper,

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Speaker 13: but you can't really hide the scratches to the face.

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Speaker 13: And that's the element that I think you're really harping

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Speaker 13: on as well as I would be sort of wanting

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Speaker 13: to investigate further, which is, well, if he had all

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Speaker 13: of these scratches, how come no one indicated that these

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Speaker 13: scratches were just there or could give a plausible reason

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Speaker 13: as to why the baby would have scratches, so anything

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Speaker 13: else could be hidden in You're absolutely right, Could they

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Speaker 13: have been caused by her.

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Speaker 2: Sure they could have. Could any number.

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Speaker 13: Of other reasons or other things have been happening. Those

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Speaker 13: could have happened as well. But why wasn't any one

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Speaker 13: actually told? Why would any of this be a shock?

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Speaker 13: And I think that's the element that we need to

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Speaker 13: really investigate for it now.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Doctor John Delatory, I believe you said I was

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Speaker 1: harping on a fact. I don't know that being compared to.

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Speaker 2: A harpie is exactly what I was going for.

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Speaker 1: I'm pointing out the fact, which I find extremely probative.

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Speaker 1: Agree or disagree with Kelly Hyman, that she and Nicole

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Speaker 1: Versy places herself alone, alone with maybe Ari at the

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Speaker 1: time his injuries to his digitals, his face, and his

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Speaker 1: stomach are first known. She is alone with the baby.

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Speaker 1: That's critical, Kelly.

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Speaker 12: That will be something ultimately up for the experts. It

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Speaker 12: will be very interesting if they have some.

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Speaker 14: Kind of therapist, psychologist, psychiatrists take the witness stand for

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Speaker 14: the prosecution to show motive, to show what the reasoning

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Speaker 14: was behind it. Nancy, if a fact was the fact

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Speaker 14: that she goes in and does this and then in

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Speaker 14: fact becomes their own hero, so to speak, that is

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Speaker 14: definitely something potentially I could see the expert psychologists psychiatrists

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Speaker 14: potentially testifying to and of course the defendants will have

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Speaker 14: the opportunity to cross examine and potentially present their own

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Speaker 14: experts as well. It appears that potentially one of their

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Speaker 14: defenses will be that it was an accident based on

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Speaker 14: what the attorney said to news reporters.

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Speaker 1: Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she

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Speaker 1: is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 3: As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the

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Speaker 3: er with the baby Ari, they receive an even more

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Speaker 3: worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive.

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Speaker 1: What their heads must have been blowing off there in

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Speaker 1: the er with baby Ari with gentitle swelling and cuts

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Speaker 1: and bruises. And they get an email or text I

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Speaker 1: guess from the PhD student, the glam PhD student, that

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Speaker 1: the other baby is now unresponsive due to a head injury. Okay,

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Speaker 1: who is this woman that the press insists on calling

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Speaker 1: calling a glamorous PhD student slash spin cyclist instructor.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's hear it from the horse's mouth.

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Speaker 8: Listen, hi there, my name is Nicole Versy and I'm

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Speaker 8: the first author on the article titled Depression symptom patterns

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Speaker 8: as predictors of metabolic syndrome and cardiac events and centimatic

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Speaker 8: women suspected my cardial athemia.

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Speaker 1: What okay, she's getting her psychology PhD. By the way,

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Speaker 1: that video is from the Heart and Mind Journal. I

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Speaker 1: bet they're proud today. But did you hear her state

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Speaker 1: I am the first author on the art of the article,

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Speaker 1: and I actually located the article.

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Speaker 2: And read it. My eyes were bleeding because it's beyond.

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Speaker 1: Anything we learned in law school or since so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to have to go back to doctor Kendall. Crown's

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Speaker 1: joining us now in Chief Medical Examiner Chief Medical Examiner

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Speaker 1: Terran County.

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Speaker 2: The way I understood her article is that she is.

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Speaker 1: Describing the effects of depression or let me just say,

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Speaker 1: disturbing events in one's life, emotional events such as grief

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Speaker 1: or turbulence, the effect that those factors have as it

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Speaker 1: relates to comorbidity in a heart event of a woman. Translation,

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Speaker 1: I think what she's saying is if you're a depressed

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Speaker 1: or you have a traumatic life event like you lose

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Speaker 1: your job or you have to move or you.

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Speaker 2: Get a divorce, or there's a death in your family.

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Speaker 1: How does that affect as a core code morbidity factor

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Speaker 1: in heart attacks or heart events?

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Speaker 2: Is that what she's saying.

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Speaker 7: It does sound like that is what her article is saying,

437
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 7: that if you've had a traumatic life event, that you

438
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 7: are at the higher risk of having a higher attack

439
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 7: or a myocardialan farnction. The exact specific of the article,

440
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 7: I'd have to look at it, but I mean stressors

441
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 7: in life, of course, can affect you in a numerous ways.

442
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 7: I don't usually eat heart attacks. It's coronary artery disease

443
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 7: or cornary artery blockage. Not necessarily your life events, but

444
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 7: more of your poor dietary habits.

445
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: I think she's following up on the theory quote it

446
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: broke my heart.

447
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: So let's listen to more.

448
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: Nicole Versey in her video presentation, and you notice she

449
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: says I am the first author. When I read it,

450
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: I realized there were other co authors. I'd love to

451
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: hear their input on writing this article. With her note

452
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: to self find them. Listen to Nicole Versy The.

453
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 8: Whys and Why CDD Projects, which is published part of

454
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 8: the Heart and Mind special issue on stressors and cardiovascular

455
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 8: disease in twenty twenty two.

456
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: That video is from the Heart and Mind Journal, but

457
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: as you see her there, she looks very different than

458
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: she does in that mugshot. I want to get back

459
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: to the facts at issue here.

460
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: Listen.

461
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 9: While spending time watching the twin boys, Ari and Leon,

462
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 9: Nicole Versey tells the parents she notices odd injuries on

463
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 9: Ari's genitals. Looking closer, the new parents decide to take

464
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 9: Ari to the hospital, leaving their other son, Ari's twin

465
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 9: Leon Katz, in the care of Nicole Bersey. Around six

466
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 9: thirty PM. Just after eleven PM, Ethan Katz and Savannah

467
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 9: Robertson get a call from Nicole Ersey telling them while

468
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 9: she was in the kitchen getting a bottle for Leon,

469
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 9: the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head.

470
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 9: Ethan tells her to call nine to one one.

471
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: Okay.

472
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: Back to our special guests joining us, Gabriella de Luca

473
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: joining us from WPXI. Gabriella, I just want to confirm

474
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: something I heard you say earlier and let you know,

475
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: elaborate on it if possible.

476
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: I'm understanding a change in the.

477
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: Story because right there we have her stating he fell

478
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: from the bouncy while she was getting a bottle. Okay,

479
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: later I hear she said he fell from a bacinet,

480
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: which is a completely different type of baby furniture.

481
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 5: So what police are telling us is that when she

482
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 5: first made that nine to one one call, she said

483
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 5: told operators that this baby Leon fell from a bacinet.

484
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 5: Then it appears when investigators get there and when she

485
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 5: talks to them, she's saying that the baby was actually

486
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 5: in a bouncy seat that was unfastened, and that bouncy

487
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 5: seat was about eighteen inches off of the ground, and

488
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 5: if you're familiar with most bacinets, they're much higher than that.

489
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 5: So yes, there's a definite change in the story from

490
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 5: what police are telling us.

491
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: Let me go to Kelly him when joining us veteran

492
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: try a lawyer host of once by a.

493
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: Crime in Hollywood.

494
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: Want to talk to you about a Moses basket that

495
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: is reportedly the type of bassinet this baby had along

496
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: with twin brother, the same kind I had for the twins.

497
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: Why did I pick the Moses basket?

498
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: Moses baskets replicate the basket that Moses baby Moses. You

499
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: remember he was put in the water and a little

500
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: basket made of reeds and floated down the water until

501
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: the king's daughter found him and took him in to

502
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: raise him.

503
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: Moses Moses basket.

504
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: They don't have bars on the side for the baby

505
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: to stick its head through.

506
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: They are elevated.

507
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: And they are solid all the way around like a basket,

508
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: and usually rise up on the side like a basket.

509
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: Think of Noah's art type basket. So if the baby.

510
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Were to jump eject himself at six weeks, can't crawl,

511
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: can barely even set up. I'll have to go back

512
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: on Dr Crowns about that. But this baby, they can't

513
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: even sit up yet, probably jumps out of a bassinette

514
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: versus a baby bouncer which is just eighteen inches off

515
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: the ground. That's even more implausible.

516
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 11: That tells a compelling story, and I can definitely see

517
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 11: the state who brings this case bringing that up that

518
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 11: there is no other reasonable explanation that what happened to

519
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 11: the baby because a person is innocent, but the state

520
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 11: has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and that.

521
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 12: Is definitely key. Beyond a reasonable doubt. I can definitely

522
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 12: see that coming into place the fact that there is

523
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 12: no plausible explanation for this except for the fact that

524
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 12: the baby was harmed, and that's definitely something the state

525
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 12: will bring up and tells a very compelling story about

526
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 12: these beautiful, beautiful children.

527
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she

528
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

529
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: Doctors at the er are alarmed by the cat's twins

530
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: strange injuries and suspect something more sinister is afoot. Who

531
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: hurt the babies.

532
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: In this case?

533
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: Back to you, I'm very curious about the relationship between

534
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: Versi and the parents, Gabriella de Luca. They have been

535
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: for instance, at least twenty twenty one.

536
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: Do we know the capacity.

537
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 5: We know that they were good friends, they were family friends,

538
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 5: and their families were friends. And we know that she

539
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 5: was in on a special weekend for them. It was

540
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 5: Father's Day, it was their anniversary. They have these six

541
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 5: week old twins. You know, most moms when they are

542
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 5: that postpartum, they only want people who are really close

543
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 5: to them coming to visit. You know, it's an emotional time.

544
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: Twins.

545
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 5: There's a lot so based on what we are seeing

546
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 5: It seems like they were very good friends.

547
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: They were close, and we have baby Leon back home,

548
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: and suddenly the parents get this call or an email.

549
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: Baby Leon has a head injury. He's unresponsive. Listen to what.

550
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: The glam PhD student says to investigators.

551
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: Listen.

552
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 4: Investigators speak to Nicole Versey and decide her story of

553
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 4: what happened to Leon Katz doesn't match up with the

554
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: severity of his injuries, as he would have only fallen

555
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: eighteen inches from the bouncer to the floor. Prosecutors consider

556
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: all the information before them and charge Nicole Versy with homicide,

557
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: aggravated assault, and endangering the welfare of children. Prosecutors also

558
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: file a notice of their intent to seek the death

559
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 4: penalty against Nicole Versy.

560
00:32:52,440 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: Out and now the babysitter, the friend. Nicoll Versi seems

561
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: shocked that prosecutors could seek the death penalty. Why is

562
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: it so often I see when the victim of an

563
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: attack is a baby that cannot speak for itself, those

564
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: cases are handled with sweetheart deals on voluntary manslaughter, no

565
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: murder charges. Not this time, Nicole Versey. Not this time,

566
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: Nicole Versey. He's considered innocent under our system. Seemingly shocked

567
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: that she could face life behind.

568
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: Bars without parole or the death penalty.

569
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just think it through, doctor John Delatory,

570
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: renowned psychologists joining us.

571
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: Think it through.

572
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: Let your mind follow these claims to their logical conclusion.

573
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: I know you don't like it, but do it. She

574
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: the adult, according to.

575
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: The state, attacked this baby in its bascinet or bouncy

576
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: chair a six week old, talked an infant, leaving it

577
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: with so many fractures to the head it dies.

578
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: And remember, if there are.

579
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: Multiple fractures, how did the baby get multiple fractures?

580
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: Not that just one fracture you might get from falling.

581
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: Did he bounce off the hardwood floor then fracture the

582
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: other part of his head if it's proven there are

583
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: multiple fractures. But think about the psychopathy, doctor Delty, of

584
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: attacking a baby, an infant in its bassie and doing

585
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: this to the infant. And now she's, oh, my stars,

586
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get punished. What you also have to keep

587
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: in mind her background.

588
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: She is a daughter of a very.

589
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Well known and respected cardiologist that practices in Manhattan and

590
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: Mount Sinai impeccable credentials. Think about how she was brought

591
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: up most likely in the lap of luxury, and now

592
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to get punished.

593
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: Hit me. No, I mean you're not wrong.

594
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 13: I mean when we think about this, we have to

595
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 13: remember that conducting these kinds of evaluations, right, and I think,

596
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 13: I honestly think an evaluation she needs to happen here

597
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 13: because it is possible that factitious disorder by proxy is

598
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 13: at play.

599
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: It is certainly possible.

600
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 13: But you talk about her, you know, her father being

601
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 13: you know, affluent, or her father having all of these accolades,

602
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 13: Well she does too. I mean she's you know, a

603
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 13: PhD candidate. She has ten articles.

604
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: Already, five years.

605
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 13: I mean that's how years. That's how long it's takes though, Nancy.

606
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 13: And it's troubling then, And I think, right, as a prosecutor,

607
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 13: you know, as a prosecutor, you don't need to prove

608
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 13: a motive, but the jury's going to want to know

609
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 13: a motive. The jury isn't just going to look at this.

610
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 13: And yes, her appearance, her education, everything, all of that

611
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 13: is going to come into play. They need to know

612
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 13: why this happened. Now, why did it happen?

613
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: Doctor John Delatory? Did you just tell me? I had

614
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: to take into account that she's glamorous, grew up with

615
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: a silver spoon in her.

616
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: Mouth, has accomplished almost after five years, getting her PhD.

617
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: Do I have to remind you that Brian Koberger.

618
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: Remember him, He's charged with form murders. He's a PhD

619
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: student too. Ted Bundy, he was in law school. He's

620
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 2: no idiot.

621
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch, he was a practicing and renowned lawyer. For

622
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, are you telling me? I have to consider

623
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: their education and their lamb factor, how photogittic they are

624
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: before I look at the facts of what happened to

625
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: baby Ari, what happened to baby Leon.

626
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 13: It's more to it than just you need to look

627
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 13: at their education. All of those individuals had a history

628
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 13: of problems. She has no history of problems at all

629
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 13: in any way, shape or form. So we do have

630
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 13: to think about what exactly it is so have a

631
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 13: history of problems, No, we do.

632
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: Ted Brandy was a serial killer until he was finally busted.

633
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: You know what I have to look at to look.

634
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: At the facts, and the facts are plain and simple,

635
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: regardless of what you say, Doctor Delatory. Doctor Melissa Merrick

636
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: joining US President CEO Prevent Child Abuse America, what is

637
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: your message today?

638
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 10: In a nutshell, my message is that unfortunately, child's abuse

639
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 10: happens everywhere. Right, we need to get in front of it.

640
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 10: We need to allow families to have high quality, the

641
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 10: affordable childcare, to learn about adequate caregiving strategies, right to

642
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 10: have some of the load and the stressors that are

643
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 10: on them to be lifted. The Surgeon General just said

644
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 10: that parental stress is a public health crisis.

645
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 8: Right.

646
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 10: We know having two babies crying and little and we're

647
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 10: all stressed out, We're not getting enough sleep. That's not

648
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 10: just parents, but anyone that watches our child needs to

649
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 10: know how to soothe them and how to be appropriate.

650
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 10: But child abuse happens everywhere, no matter education, no matter income.

651
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 10: But it is always preventable, and all of us have

652
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 10: a role to play in preventing these crazy, crazy, sad

653
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 10: fatalities and harms to kids.

654
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, what would the child have endured after

655
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: a blow to the head and brain swelling?

656
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 7: So if he was still conscious, it would cause the

657
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 7: brain would from the blood would start swelling and would

658
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 7: cause severe headache, start the child to begin to throw

659
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 7: up and then eventually go into a coma and die.

660
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 7: But from the injuries described with the large fracture and

661
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 7: the brain bleed, to me, it sounds like the child

662
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 7: was swung into a hard surface, skulls fractured, he was

663
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 7: probably immediately unconscious.

664
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: And you're right, Gabriella and doctor Crowns, it's only one

665
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: skull fracture to the left side of the head. But

666
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: with multiple brain bleeds, how does that happen, doctor Crowns?

667
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: From one fracture on the left side of the head,

668
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: which would indicate the person was right handed that threw him,

669
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: if it was in fact to throw, how could one

670
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: fracture to the left side of the skull result in

671
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: multiple brain bleeds.

672
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 7: So I mean the skull fracture is one impact. You

673
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 7: have to remember the brain itself has a little bit

674
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 7: of space inside the skull, So if the child is

675
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 7: being shook and then slammed against the surface, the shaking

676
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 7: itself can cause tearing of the vessels of the brain

677
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 7: and then that can cause hemorrhage. So when I hear

678
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 7: something like that, it makes me feel like there was

679
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 7: a shaking incident followed by a slam to the ground.

680
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds in our prayers for not

681
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: only Leon's baby, Leon's parents, but for baby Aurri, who

682
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: will grow knowing that he once had a twin brother.

683
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests for being with us to

684
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: enlighten and report on this very upsetting case. Nancy Grace

685
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,