1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: a paranormal podcast network where we offer you podcasts of 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: the supernatural and the unexplained. Getting ready now for Shades 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. The thoughts and opinions 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: expressed by the host our thoughts and opinions only, and 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: do not necessarily reflect those of I Heart Media, I 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, Coast to Coast a out employees of premier 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: networks or their sponsors and associates. You are encouraged to 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: do the proper amount of research yourself, depending on the 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: subject matter and your needs. Hi. I'm Sandra Champlain. For 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: over twenty five years, I've been on a journey to 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: prove the existence of life after death. On each episode, 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: we'll discuss the reasons we now know that our loved 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: ones have survived physical death and so will we Welcome 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: to Shades of the Afterlife. Can I tell you something 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: that I did since last I spoke with you. I 17 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: got so upset this past week with some of the 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: mediums that are out in the world that I sat 19 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: in my car and I held my iPhone to my 20 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: face and I recorded a twenty minute video almost like 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: a rant being upset with what people are doing in 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: the world. I don't know if you follow me on YouTube, 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: but that's where you will find it. Back Oh, I 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: think it's about twelve years ago. I did my very 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: first video. I didn't intend for a single person to 26 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: see it. I had sat in my car after taking 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: myself to the movies. The movie I went to see 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: was called fifty fifty and it was supposed to be 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: a comedy, and what it really was was a young 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: man who gets diagnosed with cancer, who goes into chemotherapy 31 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: treatments and many people die in the film, and it's 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: a story of dealing with grief and loss and worry 33 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: about the future. I decided to go to the movies 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: to get out of my own thoughts because I had 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: this pressure that at that point I knew enough about 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: the afterlife, and I knew so much about grief, but 37 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the one to tell people. 38 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: I was really wrestling with my ego that was saying 39 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: people will think you're crazy. Don't tell anybody, keep this 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: to yourself. So when I went to the movies and 41 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: I saw so much grief, I just felt like, oh 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: my gosh, I'm the one, and I need to get 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: this off my chest. So again, I never thought anybody 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: was going to see this video, but I sat in 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: my car, my eyes were teary eyed, and I did 46 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: one of these high I'm Sandra Champlain, and this is 47 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 1: my story. And I gave the story about my exploration 48 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: into the afterlife, my fear of dying, and then when 49 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Dad died, and how awful that was, my relationships with 50 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: my siblings falling apart, the fights, the deep depression, and 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: the things that I learned about the afterlife. So I 52 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: just felt like I needed to get it off my chest. 53 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: And then a friend of mine had lost a loved 54 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: one and I didn't have time to really share with 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: her everything I knew, so I said, I'm going to 56 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: send you this video, but just don't show anybody. And 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: when she saw it, it gave her so much relief 58 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: as far as belief in the afterlife and comfort about 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: how grief works and how so much of it is 60 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: out of our control, and it made her feel better. Well. 61 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: She had a friend that had a friend passed and 62 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: she asked my permission to share this video, and I said, yes, 63 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: but tell them not to share it. With anybody. Well, 64 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: you know what happened is eventually so many people were 65 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: sharing the video that I decided to just make it 66 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: public on YouTube. And I think it's called Sandra Courage 67 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: to Share her Life Purpose or something like that, but 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: it's on my YouTube channel. And I was sitting in 69 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: the car, like I said, just looking at the camera, 70 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: just letting it all out. And I have gotten a 71 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: few emails this past week, people that are absolutely at 72 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: their wits and you and I know the pain of grief, 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: and you know how much it hurts. And it is common, 74 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: unfortunately for people to think I may be better off 75 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 1: with my loved one not in this world. It's tough 76 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: because I want to give people everything I know in 77 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: an email to let them know that the afterlife is real, 78 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: but you and I know that's impossible. I can do 79 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: my best to point to different episodes and here's a 80 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: copy of my book, and here's some of the things 81 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: I've learned, and here's and things you can experience yourself. 82 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: But I just can't wrap it all up in one email. 83 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: One of the things that people do is they consult 84 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: a medium because they think, Okay, the medium will give 85 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 1: me some proof that my loved one has lived on. Unfortunately, 86 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: there are more bad mediums in the world than there 87 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: are good mediums. So there this past week, I sat 88 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: in my car, I looked into the camera and I 89 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: just expressed my disgust with some of the mediums that 90 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: are walking this earth right now. Now. I didn't use 91 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: any names, but I just gave some details about what 92 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: people do and what they shouldn't do. If we were 93 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: diagnosed with an illness, we wouldn't just take somebody who's 94 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: got the title of doctor. We would do the research, 95 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't we And the same thing holds true with mediums. 96 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: And I'm not going to go through everything I said 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: in the video, but I certainly got a lot off 98 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: my chest. Back on episode one oh seven, I shared 99 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: some of this information that's called mediums, good, bad, and 100 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: the ugly, because I really think the level of mediumship 101 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: needs to be raised across the world. It really does. 102 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: Hopefully I can create a list of the best mediums 103 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: that are reasonably priced, that offer people that ten minute guarantee. 104 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: If you're not happy in the first ten minutes, let's 105 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: talk about it, and you don't pay, or you schedule 106 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: another time. Because sometimes the energy is just not right, 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes that person may not be the medium for you. 108 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it just happens that way. Connecting to our 109 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: loved ones can be similar to dialing in a radio 110 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: station and sometimes where the connections just not clear enough 111 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: and who knows what the reason is. But proper mediumship 112 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: done right can give someone life. Again, it's not about 113 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: getting facts and figures and details about somebody's life. It's 114 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: really about enough evidence and shared memories so they can't 115 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: find on Facebook and believe it or not. Some mediums 116 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: do that. It's terrible. If you're interested in mediumship. I 117 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: always say take a class in it, because when you 118 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: can start to see that your soul receives information from 119 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: other people, you start thinking, gosh, if that's possible, what 120 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: else is possible. There's this unseen world, there's this massive universe. 121 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: We human beings naturally think that we are in the 122 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: center of it, and the universe revolves around us, don't 123 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: we sometimes? And I think, actually, not just hard, it's 124 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: impossible to get the bigger picture of all this. We 125 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: know what we experience in our daily lives as reality. 126 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: But think of a fish, maybe like the Finding Nemo character. 127 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: That's swimming on the coral reefs in the bottom of 128 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: the ocean. That fish may believe that coral reef is 129 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: all there is. All it knows is the water that 130 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: it is swimming in. It wouldn't know about the air 131 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: we breathe, It wouldn't know about above the ocean. We 132 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: are like that fish, my friend. We are living in 133 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: our own coral reef and what we see we believe 134 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: is reality, and it is for us. But there is 135 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: something so much bigger. So that fish would have to 136 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: get out of the water. It would have to explore space, 137 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: It would have to explore quantum physics. Could you imagine 138 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: to know that there's more to their life than meets 139 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: the eye? So for you and I, how do we 140 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: do that? We have to realize that there is this 141 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: voice of negativity that keeps us just where we need 142 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: to be as a human to experience life, the good 143 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: and the bad. We need to be part of this 144 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: game called life and be a player, like the top 145 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: hat on a monopoly board. We may not know we 146 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: created the game and we chose to play it. I 147 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: don't think we can see the truth while we're in 148 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: these shoes that we're in or wearing slippers. Right now, 149 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: we need to do some investigation and we need to 150 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: challenge the reality that we know. Any time, we can 151 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: look up at the stars or watch one of those 152 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: films about the fastness of the universe where they ever 153 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: expanding universe and realize that we are so tiny in 154 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: the scheme of things, or speaking of tiny, watch the 155 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: movie What the bleep Do We Know? Or some of 156 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: those other films you can see about the quantum level 157 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: of things. Everything you look at right now, I'm looking 158 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: at my kitchen table and the house and a pair 159 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: of glasses. They all seem real. We can hold them 160 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: and touch them. But if we were to take a 161 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: tiny camera and put it in one of the atoms 162 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: that are bouncing around inside these things we can see 163 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: and feel. Although they're visible to the eye, and we 164 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: can feel them to the touch down to their tiniest core, 165 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: it's just all vibrating energy. So there is a big 166 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: mystery that goes on as to how all of this 167 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: vibrating energy can be stuff that we can touch. I 168 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: was watching a YouTube video earlier by some atheists, and 169 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: someone had called in questioning is it okay to be 170 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: an atheist and believe in the afterlife, and the gentleman 171 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: doing the show said, being atheist is more a disbelief 172 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: in a god, but that doesn't necessarily mean a disbelief 173 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: in what's possible. The fear that the gentleman had that 174 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: led this show is that people who believe in the 175 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: afterlife won't live a life powerfully. Now. There are far 176 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: too many people that say, oh, someday I'll be in 177 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of heaven and everything will be great. And 178 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: they were saying, play life full out as if this 179 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: is all there is, because there are no guarantees for 180 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: each one of us, including these guys. Do the work 181 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: to know what you believe in. Don't just take it 182 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: from another person, Have experiences, learn And I say that too. 183 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: The whole reason to believe in the afterlife is to 184 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: live a powerful life now, to know that your loved 185 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: ones survive and that you will too. Is there a 186 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: way for the fish to know the bigger reality of life? 187 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: Is there a way for you and I to get 188 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: out of our fish bowl and know that there's a 189 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: bigger picture. Yes, And instead of looking outward, we can 190 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: look inward and quiet our minds. There's a whole world 191 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: to experience when we quiet down. If you haven't yet, 192 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: listened to episode one fifteen that talks more about quieting 193 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: the mind, and I give you an experiential journey that 194 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: you can actually meet up with your loved ones when 195 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: we get back from the break, I'm going to play 196 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: an excerpt from the New York Academy of Science. It's 197 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: a team of four doctors debating the reality of near 198 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: death experiences, actual death experiences, and out of body experiences. 199 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: This whole experience today is really to help you formulate 200 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: for yourself your belief. Okay, there's work to be done, 201 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: but it's an enjoyable one for sure. We'll be right 202 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: back listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I 203 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal Podcast Network. 204 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, there's more Shades of the Afterlife coming 205 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: right up. You're listening to the I Heart Radio and 206 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast a M Paranormal Podcast Hi, it's dontr Sky. 207 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: Keep it right here on the I Heart Radio and 208 00:13:44,080 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to 209 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sander Champlain and on the 210 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: rest of our time together. I want to share a 211 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: debate that was held in the New York Academy of 212 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: Sciences about near death experiences. Pretty interesting. Some of the 213 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: people on the panel are Professor of neurology, neurologist Kevin Nelson, 214 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: also a neuropsychiatrist, Peter Fenwick. There's orthopedic surgeon Mary Neil, 215 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: and also an intensive care physician named Sam Parnia. Mary 216 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: Neil you may remember from episode twenty four. She is 217 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: the spine surgeon who turned upside down in a kayak 218 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: and had a near death experience. She has a very 219 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: incredible story. There are times that they're going to refer 220 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: to Mary's experience. It's a pretty lengthy conference, so go 221 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: back to episode twenty four to hear Mary's experience. We're 222 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: going to start off with Peter talking about how common 223 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: are near death experiences. Let's listen, Peter. How universal are 224 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: these near death experiences? I mean, is someone in China 225 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: or Nigeria reporting basically the same kind of experiences as 226 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: Americans do their worldwide um Not only are they worldwide, 227 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: they've also been throughout history and certainly as far as 228 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: Western history goes right back to the Greeks the accounts 229 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: of near death experiences at that time. But the interesting 230 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: question that's been raised is are they the same? If 231 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: you're Chinese, will you have the same experience as you 232 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: would if you're American, If you were an Indian, would 233 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: it be the same. Well, now there are cultural components, 234 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: so in fact their difference in different countries, and the 235 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: sorts of differences are fairly simple. For example, what happens 236 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: in European countries in America, the fact that you go 237 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: down a tunnel, that you meet a being of light 238 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: and then go into this nice English garden and a 239 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: life review. In fact, if you were in China you 240 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: would probably do the same thing, But if you were 241 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: in India, then you wouldn't. The probably wouldn't be any tunnel. 242 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: You certainly wouldn't go out of your body before you 243 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: go down the tunnel to meet the being of light. 244 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: And in primitive societies hunter gatherers they're much much simpler 245 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: than that. Just to give you the flavor for it, 246 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: there's one well known hunter gallery experience where a man 247 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: died and he got into a canoe paddled for three 248 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: days to an island. I expect it was like an 249 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: English country garden. He stayed there and then he paddled 250 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: all the way back again. Now that has the same 251 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: sort of flavor as the near death experience as as 252 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: we do today in Europe and America. So they're definite differences. Well, 253 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: why why would certain cultures see the tunnel the white 254 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: light and other cultures not. Um, I don't think it's 255 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: really known. We can talk about the Indian experience because 256 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: that's been studied much more. In India, they believe in 257 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: the god of death and he has messengers called yam dudes. 258 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: He sends his yam dudes out to take the person 259 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: and bring them back. So when you die, you're picked 260 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: up by a yan dude. You go back to where 261 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: the god is and he looks in the book and 262 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: sees exactly what you've done. Now, what's in Stevenson, who 263 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: studied them, said, is quite often the god who's reading 264 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: the book says, hey, you brought me the wrong person, 265 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: taking back immediately. I didn't want that battel. I'm wanting 266 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: one of the other tells. And in Stevenson called this 267 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: official bungling. So that there are very specific cultural phenomena 268 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: which which do occur during this conference, the question was 269 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: brought up about atheists, and this is Kevin Nelson's response. 270 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: Then you said that atheists had these experiences in did 271 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: they do why? I mean, presumably they don't believe in 272 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 1: angelic beings. Now they don't believe in angelic beings. We 273 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: have two atheists in our series. The first one and 274 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: if you if you were listening to Mary, she was 275 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: very careful about what she was saying. She was talking 276 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: about the interpretation of the experience as she saw it. Well, 277 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: if she were an atheist, you would interpret the experience 278 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: as you see it. And our first atheists refused any 279 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: sort of being in the experience. What they did was 280 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: they dissolved into pure and g and they floated through 281 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: a blue environment with pure energy. They came to the 282 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: light and they had the same experience of the overwhelming 283 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: feelings of love and then the experience ended. So it 284 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: was not populated in quite the same way as Mary's 285 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: experience was. The other one was very similar. At this 286 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: time there were more people who they met, and they 287 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: met dead relatives, which is very common in their death experiences. 288 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: So the fact that you don't believe anything is going 289 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: to happen doesn't stop it happening. In this next part 290 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: I'd like to share with you, they get into a 291 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: conversation about out of body experiences. So this is intensive 292 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: care physician Sam Parnia speaking, but out of what experience 293 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: has certainly have been described in cardiac arrest settings, and 294 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: people seem to be able to accurately recall what was 295 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: being said, what was being done, and if you talk 296 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: to their physicians, they will describe events that were occurring. 297 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: When patients were in a sisterly or what we call flatline. 298 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: Their heart had no electrical activity, there was nothing going on. 299 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: I've seen cases, which one case particular that I was 300 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: astonished by where a colleague of mine told me of 301 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: a patient who was not getting any kind of restation, 302 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: no chest compressions. The patient had been certified dead left 303 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: in the room, and they had left the person and 304 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: then they noticed twenty minutes later that actually the patient 305 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: looks a bit different. The heart had been restarted, and 306 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: the patient recalled everything or conversations. So they do occur. 307 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: It isn't the critical question whether the brain has flatlined 308 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: or not. I mean whether the whether the brain still 309 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: is One of the things that Kevin mentioned also, which 310 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: I think and I agree with, is that again you're 311 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: taking a hodge patch of different experiences and we're mixing 312 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: it all together. So of course, in certain cases, I 313 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: absolutely agree, there are people whose brain hadn't flatlined, They 314 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: hadn't even necessarily technically gone beyond the threshold of their 315 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: hearts stopping. But there are certain the cases where people 316 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: have flatlined, both from a heart perspective and from a 317 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: brain perspective, and paradoxically which we cannot explain. They are 318 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: able to tell us exactly what was going on in 319 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: the same way that anyone in this room would do. 320 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: Except the only differences for everyone else here, their cortex, 321 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: this part of the brain that we need to relay consciousness, 322 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: is working perfectly well in these people. At best, their 323 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: brain is fully dysfunctional, or as I said, completely flatlined. Kevin, 324 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: how do you explain out of body experiences? There's actually 325 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: very little to no controversy in the neurologic circles about 326 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: out of body experiences. One of the remarkable things that 327 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: they're actually very common. One in twenty people are going 328 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: to have an out a body experience in their lifetime. 329 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: So if you look around, you there's quite a few 330 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: people in this room. In fact, oftentimes when I speak, 331 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: people will come up to me afterwards and say, Geeus, 332 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: I had one of those in her own. You're told 333 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: anybody about it, UM, so feel free to do that 334 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: if you, if you choose UM. But why are they 335 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: so common? Well, first off, there happened commonly during syncope 336 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: that is simple fainting, harmless fainting. About the fifteen percent 337 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: of people who faint will have an auto body experience 338 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: during that faint, and it can be you know, I 339 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: have one subject who was a jet fighter pilot and 340 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: he was making a sharp turn and he began to 341 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: get syncopole and boom, he was suddenly flying his jet 342 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: from above the cockpit. UM. He actually became a neurologist 343 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: after that. UM. The But most of are many of 344 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: the auto body experiences actually happened when we blend waking 345 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: in RAM consciousness UM REM. There are three states of 346 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: consciousness that we have. You know, we bring has only 347 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: got three choices that can be awake, like many of 348 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: you seem to be UM. And there's two conscious states 349 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: of sleep. There's the non REM sleep and there's the 350 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: REM sleep. The rapid eye movement sleep. In the hallmarks 351 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: of that are profound visual activate UM activation of the 352 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: limbic system UM and our emotional UM. Auto body experiences 353 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: is actually part of the round system bizarre dreams in 354 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: the narrative quality of that, and during the realm state, 355 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: we turn off an area called the temporal prietal region. Now, 356 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: this is an area about here which is important in 357 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: synthesizing our experiences. It takes information from our inner ear 358 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: where we are in the gravitational field. It takes our vision, 359 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: and it takes where our body sense seems to be, 360 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: like where your right foot is right now. You didn't 361 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: know that before I mentioned it, but now you're thinking 362 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: about it. Well, that all comes in this one area. 363 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: And if you disturb this area or turn it off UM, 364 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: then like we do in round sleep, then you can 365 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: have an auto body experience. But why why would you 366 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: have this sensation of your hovering above your body looking 367 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: back down on it the Well, they're all theer. You 368 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: can have very many different kinds of out of body experiences. 369 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: You can be looking from behind there are none that 370 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm aware of where you're down below on the ground. UM. 371 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: You can be off to the side you can be behind, 372 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: you can be in front, you can be on top. Um, 373 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: it's very common to be above. And that's a question, 374 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think needs you know, some further thought. 375 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: But the important thing is, for example, all Blank, a 376 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: neurologist in Switzerland, has taken an electrode um in this 377 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: area and you will apply the current. It's about one 378 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: hundredth of a sixty watt light bulb, I mean, flips 379 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: the switch on. Foom, they're out of body. They can 380 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: be evolved, they can be hovering behind turning to switch 381 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: off their back end. So you're going up and down, 382 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of like the elevator out there, you know, up 383 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: and down, out of your body. So there are very 384 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, UM, and we've known this for a long time, 385 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: and we've known this since the forties from wild to 386 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: Penfield stimulated the temporal area and produced out of body 387 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: experiences during their surgery. So you know that these can 388 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: be done on a very non spiritual and threatening contexts. 389 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: In fact, when we looked at our fifty five people 390 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: UM with who've had in near death experience and who 391 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: looked at their out of body experience, they were as 392 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: likely to have an out of body experience during rem intrusion, 393 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: that is, when rem and waking consciousness we're blending as 394 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: they were to have it during a near death experience. 395 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: Is so okay, Peter, Do you kept this explanation about 396 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: of body experiences? Not much? Um um. There's certain things 397 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: I didn't like about it, and there's certain things which 398 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: I'll go along with. I like how he says. Do 399 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: you agree? Not much. I hope you're enjoying this debate. 400 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: It's nice to hear medical professionals take on it, and 401 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: then also what's happening in the brain when near death 402 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: experiences occur, and even how they can cause an out 403 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: of body exp avariants. I think that's fascinating, So I 404 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this too. Let's go to the break 405 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: and then we will be back to hear Peter's explanation. 406 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I 407 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. 408 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. There's more Shades of the Afterlife coming 409 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: right up. Thanks for listening to the I Heart Radio 410 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast a paranormal podcast network. Make sure 411 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: and check out all our shows on the I Heart 412 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 1: Radio app or by going to i heart radio dot com. Hi, 413 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: this is you. Follow just Kevin Randall and you're listening 414 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: to the I Heart Radio and Coast to coach Am 415 00:26:52,000 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 416 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain and we are just about to hear 417 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: from neuropsychiatrist and clinical neurophysiologist Peter Fenwick about out of 418 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: body experiences. First of all, they are very common, and 419 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: also ordinary people will have art of body experiences. Those 420 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: to me aren't terribly interesting. What are interesting to me 421 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: or the out of body experiences that you have during 422 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: a cardiac arrest, because remember I said that you have 423 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: to know what the brain state was, and in cardiac 424 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: arrests on the whole, we do know what the brain 425 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: state is, particularly if they are in people who are 426 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: in the medical facility of some sort. Now, there are 427 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: a lot of accounts of these, and one would normally think, Okay, 428 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: the person comes out of that body and uh then 429 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: goes down the tunnel or something. It's not quite like that. 430 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: They come out of their body and they perceive what 431 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: is going on around them. Now, this is very important 432 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: if your brain is not functioning. But that's the first 433 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: thing which is interesting. The second thing is they can 434 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: get vertical or true information of the environment around them. Now, 435 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: if that is true, then it suggests that mind and 436 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: brain can separate. So it's the first point. And so 437 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: you have to look at these ones very carefully because 438 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: there is nothing in our current science which suggests that 439 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: mind and brain can seperate, because our science says the 440 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: mind is created by the brain. So you need to 441 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: look at these experiences. So the first thing is can 442 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: they get your information? The next thing about the experiences 443 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: is that they don't only get information from where they 444 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: are in the O R room. They get it also 445 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: by going through walls and hearing conversations from other people. 446 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: If you look at the accounts, then you will see 447 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: that the people whose conversations they heard when they were 448 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: unconscious were in different rooms and there was no way 449 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: that they could hear it. Now that's the data. Now 450 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: you have to interpret it. Well. There'd been one or 451 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: two attempts to do this. One of the things that 452 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: people when they come out of their body say is 453 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: that if there is an object here, you can see 454 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: its top and its sides. That's all right, but you 455 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: can see it bottom at the same time. Now that's 456 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: not okay. And if you are out of your body, 457 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be able to go through a wall because 458 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: none of us can, So that's not okay either. So 459 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: what are these people really saying? And they're one of 460 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: the two people who are suggesting that maybe they're in 461 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: a five dimensional reality in other words, as an extra 462 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: dimension that will allow you to see tops and bottoms 463 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: of things and will allow you to go through walls. 464 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: So it's just another way of thinking about these phenomena 465 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: and just taken from what they are and saying, Okay, 466 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: what actually do they mean? So although, um, the standard 467 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: view would be well, I can explain this in many 468 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: different ways, but if you actually just stick to the 469 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: data and see what he chose, then it raises some 470 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: really interesting I want to come back to Kevin. We're 471 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: sort of talking around the big question. Are The big 472 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: question is is the mind simply a product of brain function? 473 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: Which is the standard scientific model right now. I mean, 474 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, when I've asked neuroscientists, you know, how do 475 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: you define the mind? That many of them will say 476 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: the mind is what the brain does. So I mean 477 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: that's that's the question. That's that is Challe. I mean, 478 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: that's that's the the issue at stake here. It seems 479 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: to be the larger philosophical and scientific question. And so 480 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: the question is is there any way to challenge that 481 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: with sound scientific data? And I want to come back 482 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: to the question of out of body experiences because Sam, 483 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: I know you have been the director of a study 484 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: called the Aware Study, which is actually trying to check 485 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: on this in some scientific way to see if there's 486 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: a way to prove that the mind is more than 487 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: just brain function that do you want to tell us 488 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: about your study Before we can do that, I just 489 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: need to touch back on it's important for everyone to 490 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: understand what we're talking about. I I deal with cardiac 491 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: arrests every week. I've resusstated hundreds, if not more, of patients, 492 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: and it's my bread and butter. It's what I do 493 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: for a living. And the important thing which Peter was 494 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: alluding to is to understand that actually, while there are 495 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: many things that make people become very sick, and their 496 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: physiology is very different. And that's why I think we're 497 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: talking about different things. And that's the whole point of 498 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: we're comparing apples and oranges. I don't think we're all 499 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: talking about the same thing. So, as Kevin mentioned, when 500 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: you have at the beginning, when blood flow to the 501 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: brain gets beyond a certain threshold, then the brain does 502 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: not function. Now, when someone's heart stops immediately, immediately, when 503 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: there is no pumping of the heart, there is no blood, 504 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: zero blood getting into the brain, and immediately a patient 505 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: will develop fixed and dilated pupils. They lose all of 506 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: their brainstem reflexes, which is why we can put a 507 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: tube into their airway and they don't gag, and their 508 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: brain stops functioning completely within seconds. Now, when we do resuscitation, 509 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: with the best of efforts that we make, we can 510 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: only get a little bit of blood five percent of 511 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: the blood that the person has ordinarily into the brain. 512 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: And that's why, throughout the entire period of resuscitation the 513 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: brain remains flatlined and the pupils remained fixed and dilated. 514 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: The brainstem does not function. The only cases where that 515 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: may be an exception is if we have transiently restarted 516 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: the heart and we lose it again. But when their 517 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: heart doesn't beat, that's the case. Now. Interestingly, to go 518 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: to your question of consciousness. What we have is that 519 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: we have many thousands, if not millions of people now 520 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: who are reporting these incredible experiences from all over the world, 521 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: who many of whom have described. Our doctors are nurses 522 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: conversations what was going on? But you cannot have a 523 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: functioning cortex in this time, It's not possible, so we're 524 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: left with the paradox. So this led us to put 525 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: together a more definitive study um which we call aware 526 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: Awareness during resuscitation, to try to iron out some of 527 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: these issues. And part of that was to try to 528 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: study the quality of oxygen getting into the brain and 529 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: hopefully improve outcomes for our patients so they don't end 530 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: up brain damage. And part of it was also to 531 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: try to study these recollections that people have. Now our 532 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: study has been analyzed and we will be releasing the 533 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: results soon. But I can just give a little snippet 534 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: if I may, just because everyone asked us and what 535 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: we what we have found, and this is not just 536 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: my interpretation. These are experts. We have at least twenty 537 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: experts from neurology to psychiatry, to various fields of neuroscience 538 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: to emergency medicine who have conferred the findings that essentially 539 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: our data suggests that these so called out of body experiences, 540 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: at least when they occur in the cardiac arrest setting, 541 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: which is why I call them visual awareness, cannot be 542 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: defined as an hallucination. They cannot be defined as a loser. 543 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: They are not consistent with what we call a hallucination. Furthermore, 544 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: what we've also managed to demonstrate is that essentially when 545 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: a person has died technically the way they're defined dead, 546 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: that what happens to our consciousness is that it disappears 547 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: from the external view, so a bit like how you 548 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: go for surgery and you're given a general anesthetic and 549 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: you may appear that your conscious is not there. It 550 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: hasn't disappeared off the face of the earth. It's just 551 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: not present. And so essentially death is not something to 552 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: be afraid of. And the final point, which I think 553 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: is important and it touches on a lot of things 554 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: that were said, is that actually, when you talk to 555 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: people after the experiences, they're expressing many different memories. Some 556 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: of the people who are telling you that they had 557 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: a near death experience, they're telling you about memories that 558 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: were occurring a week or two later. In the intensive 559 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: care unit. And so the problem I have with a 560 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: lot of the studies that my colleagues were quoting here 561 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: is that you're taking people around and experienced ten years ago. 562 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: Who knows really what was going on at that time. 563 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: So it's very important to going forward we study. And 564 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: it's just sorry, I'm but I'm just I just want 565 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: to address one aspect because a couple of people have 566 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: mentioned these recollections, these memories, and one of the things 567 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: that I find sets a near death experience apart from 568 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: any other experience. And I We've all listened to many 569 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: I've listened to probably five stories, and we would all 570 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: say the exact same thing, which is that I remember 571 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: my own experience as precisely and accurately today as when 572 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: it happened. And it's the experience of remembering something in 573 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: the present tense. It's not recalling a memory from ten 574 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: years ago or fifty years ago. You're saying this is 575 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: that there's a different quality. Is highrely qualitatively different from 576 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: any other experience, dream, hallucination, or big event in your life. 577 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: It is a qualitatively different type of memory. So it's 578 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: really not a recollect action. And I think that's one 579 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: of the things that is interesting from a physiologic standpoint, 580 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: because indeed the brain cells start to disintegrate, start to burst, 581 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: there's no way those brain cells are forming memories. If 582 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: you look at the studies that were done trying to 583 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: replicate the hallucinatory effect of a near death experience, there 584 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: are similarities when the neurotransmitters are injected, but the memory 585 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: again is qualitatively different. It is not a near death experience. 586 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: I mean, these are not recollections. I remember the day 587 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: my son was killed very clearly, but I know that 588 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: if I were to tell that experience of that day 589 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 1: every couple of years for the rest of my life, 590 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: the details would change a little bit. Like everyone's description 591 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: of a near death experience remains exactly the same, no 592 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: matter how much time has passed. I think the mems 593 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: are extremely vivid, and the reason that they're vividly recalled 594 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: is because you are activating your memory to them because 595 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: of fight or flight. And one of the best examples, 596 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: if you ever want to read, is of Dostoyevsky when 597 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: he went through a mock execution. He was in no 598 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: danger of cardiac arrest or fainting like some of his 599 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: other fellow prisoners were, but his memory for the experience, 600 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: which you wrote about later, is extremely more. The problem 601 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: with that is I, in those five stories, have only 602 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: talked to a handful of people who chose to return, 603 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: and they chose to return for very specific reasons. I 604 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,879 Speaker 1: have not spoken to a single person who has had 605 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: a near death experience who voluntarily said, yeah, I want 606 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: to come back. And so that speaks against the idea 607 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: that it's this fight or flight that at some evolutionarily 608 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: beneficial process because nobody wants to come back. Well, no, 609 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't think that's true. I have a number of 610 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: people who want to come back. In fact, one of 611 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: the people I can think of she has married, she 612 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: had a child. The child was about six months old, 613 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of arning to be done, 614 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: and she got all the earning in the basket, and 615 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: she had her cardiac arressed, and she had her near 616 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: death experience, and she went down the tunnelment being a 617 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: light and then there was a discussion with her fatherhood 618 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: already died, and she said, I've got to go back 619 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: because my husband can't do the arning. I have to 620 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: go back. And that was the reason that she said. 621 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: In fact, some of them do have reasons for why. 622 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,359 Speaker 1: I think it's important, though, I think just to touch 623 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: on what Mary says, and I think, Mary, you know 624 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: that's why I I strongly look into calling people's experiences 625 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: such as yours no longer near death experience because, as 626 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: you probably agree, I, medically there is no such thing 627 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: as being near death. It's a very unscientific term. My 628 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: my way that I would define yours as an actual 629 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: death experience, near death experiences, actual death experiences. I love 630 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: what he said, death is nothing to be afraid of. 631 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: It's nice to see both sides of the coin being 632 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: discussed here. It really is by medical professionals. We'll be 633 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: right back. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 634 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 635 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. Stare right there. There's more Sandra coming right 636 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: out the art Bell Vault never disappoints Classic audio at 637 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: your fingertips. Go now to Coast to Coast a M 638 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: dot com for full details. This is Afterlife expert Daniel Brakeley, 639 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: and you're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast 640 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: to Coast a M Paranormal pod as Network. Welcome back, 641 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: to shades of the afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain. This actually 642 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: sounds like the beginning of a joke. We've got a 643 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 1: neuropsychiatrist and orthopedic surgeon, professor of neurology, and a critical 644 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: care doctor. Well, they're discussing near death experiences, actual death experiences, 645 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: and out of body experiences. Next, they went to the 646 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: audience for some questions. Unfortunately they did not record the questions, 647 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: but there's some really good words in the answers that 648 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: they gave, so we can use these as some closing 649 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: statements from these doctors. Those of us are actively involved 650 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: in the field of cardiac arrests who also worked with 651 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: so called near death or what I call actual death experiences, 652 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: We consider that there's enough to make us want to 653 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: pursue this question more. The consciousness may continue when the 654 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: brain is not functioning, when we've gone beyond the threshold 655 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: of death. I spent many months trying to come up 656 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,240 Speaker 1: with an alternative explanation. But now the water wasn't cold, 657 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't young. We were in the middle of a 658 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: very inaccessible river in the middle of southern Chile. At 659 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: the end of spending many months collecting data, My conclusion 660 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: was that my experience absolutely was outside the boundaries of 661 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: science and outside the boundaries of medicine. There were no 662 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: explanations I could find. One of the things I've been 663 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: doing is studying death, in fact, what is the process 664 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: of death? How do we die? And so we've got 665 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: two things here. We've got the near death experience with 666 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: the going down the tunnel being of light, the special 667 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: area that you go into and only in cardiac arrest, 668 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: and you do it in cardiac arrest. So that tells 669 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: us then that there is something very special going on. 670 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: And if you look at death itself, one of the 671 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: things you find as you come closer and closer and 672 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: closer towards death, a lot of the phenomena that you 673 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: see in the near death experience start occurring to the 674 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: people who are dying. For example, they see dead relatives 675 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: who come into the realm. As they go on to 676 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: the next stage, they exist in two realities. They exist 677 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,959 Speaker 1: in the reality which is full of light and love 678 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 1: and spiritual beings and dead relatives. Then they're back in 679 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: the hospital. Then they go back to the other reality again. 680 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: Then they're back in the hospital. And so as the 681 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 1: whole consciousness fragments. What seems to come through in the 682 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: dying is this other reality? But if the cross validation, 683 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: But if I can interject, I mean, the question was, 684 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: can science get a handle on this? I mean, can 685 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: you go beyond the subjective however extraordinary the subjective stories? 686 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: I mean, can can use the tools that we have 687 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: at the disposal of science right now? Can they verify this? Well? 688 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure that one of the things we could do 689 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: is to start putting people who are dying in scanters 690 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: so we can actually see what their brains are doing. 691 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,959 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure that this would pass many ethics committees. So, Sam, 692 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: you're saying that science can definitively test us, I think yeah. 693 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: I think the ladies asked they interesting question, and I 694 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: think that the point you have to remember is at 695 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: any given era, you know, scientists will set sort of 696 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: boundaries for what knowledge that is known at that time, 697 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: and things work within that boundaries, but always there are 698 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: things that don't quite fit in there, and many times 699 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: most scientists will ignore that. They're trying to stick to 700 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: the framework that they have because it's more comfortable, and 701 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: they'll continue researching that area. And then sometimes you have 702 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 1: to go and look beyond. So what we have right 703 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: now is certain phenomena that are challenging our worldview, and 704 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: we have to be able to explore them. So I 705 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: think to be able to explore this, you know, the 706 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: question essentially that you're I think you're asking is can 707 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: we test somehow scientifically the idea that consciousness and my consciousness. 708 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: I want to be clear, what we're talking about is 709 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: what the Greeks called the psyche or the soul, that 710 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: thing that makes us who we are. It's just a 711 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,879 Speaker 1: scientific term for me, for the self. Can we test 712 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: whether that can be separate from brain function? And so 713 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: I think one area to do this is looking at 714 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: um times where, whether we like it or not, the 715 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: brain has to be shut down. One of those is 716 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: when the heart stops and there's inadequate blood getting into 717 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: the brain. So we could continue the sorts of studies 718 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: we've started with the aware study. But another area which 719 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,440 Speaker 1: is perhaps more controlled, is looking at certain groups of 720 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: patients who have to go for surgery where their only 721 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,879 Speaker 1: option is to have their body cooled down to such 722 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: an extent, basically to eighteen degrees celsius, which is around 723 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: sixty degrees fahrenheit, that their brain also flatlines. The brain 724 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: cannot function, there's no circulation at all, and to study 725 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: whether consciousness continues or stops. So if, obviously, if when 726 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: the brain doesn't function, consciousness also completely stops and there 727 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: is no element of that, then that suggests that consciousness 728 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,359 Speaker 1: must be produced on the brain. If, on the other hand, 729 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: you can get reports of people who can accurately have awareness, 730 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: they can see things or hear things, and we can 731 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 1: validate those claims, then clearly that suggests that consciousness may 732 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: be functioning independent of the brain. Actually, one of the 733 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: things that we did find in our aware study is 734 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: that this is the first documented case of somebody who 735 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: we can verify that they had consciousness at least during 736 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: a three to five minute period when the brain would 737 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: not have been functioning, rather than so we've timed it, 738 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: rather than when the brain was coming back online. But 739 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: you can do that because you can give patients, say 740 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: who are having surgery and whose brain has shut down, 741 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 1: certain stimuli at certain times, and then if they can 742 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: recall them, you know that it was occurring when the 743 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: brain had flatlined. You also can give them stimuli when 744 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: the brain has can come back online, so you can 745 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: distinguish when the consciousness or activity of the mind or 746 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: psyche or soul or whatever term you want to use 747 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: it is going on. What is interesting is that for me, 748 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: the near death experience is one of our ways or 749 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: one of the roads by which we can understand consciousness. 750 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: So therefore it should tell us something about human consciousness, 751 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,839 Speaker 1: and it should be central and it's very important. Can 752 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: we get funding for it. No, So this means that 753 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: one of the most important sets of experiences that we 754 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: need to do we can't actually do. In fact, Sam 755 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: and I put in the grant to one of the 756 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,279 Speaker 1: European institutions, and the idea was to put cards on 757 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: the ceiling so that the people when they had their 758 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: cardiac arrest could see the cards and report. And they 759 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: came back and they said, brilliantly designed study, you can 760 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: do it. No cards on the ceiling. Now, that of 761 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: course really altered exactly what we wanted to do. So 762 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: if there is more money about then we can do 763 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: it properly. And so that's really what we have to do. 764 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,439 Speaker 1: But I think things are changing a little bit. In general. 765 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: I agree with Peter on this um and one of 766 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: the sad things is that despite the great general interests, 767 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,320 Speaker 1: despite the media interests in this topic, um, there's no funding, 768 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: institution interests. You know, people don't die of near death experiences, 769 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: so there's not you know. So it's it's hard, um, 770 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: you know. And I h grant and I could tell 771 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: from the reviewers comments that they didn't even know where 772 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: to what section, what study section to put this grant um, 773 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: and the same with private foundations as well. It's it's 774 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: really unfortunate because really there's a lot more science and 775 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: work that really could be done. The other problem, though, 776 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: is I think it's very difficult just even in collecting 777 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 1: those stories because first of all, in my experience, most 778 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: people do not want to talk about it. With increased 779 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: awareness of near death experience near death experiences, more and 780 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: more people are beginning to feel comfortable mentioning it. But 781 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 1: the vast majority of people, if they mentioned it at all, 782 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: they mentioned it to their spouse or their parents or 783 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: someone and they're immediately shut down and they never talk 784 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: about it again until they share that experience with me 785 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: or someone else who who would understand them. And so 786 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: I think the first problem is actually having people tell 787 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,399 Speaker 1: you their story. The second problem, even with the idea 788 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: of putting the cards, which on the surface sounds like 789 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: a brilliant idea, I will tell you that from my 790 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: personal experience, I probably would have come back and not 791 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: been able to discuss the cards because it was unimportant. 792 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:49,319 Speaker 1: I don't never have even thought twice about taking those notes, 793 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,880 Speaker 1: partly because I had no intention of coming back, and 794 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,240 Speaker 1: so I think it's very difficult to design a study 795 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,319 Speaker 1: like that that would prove of this out of out 796 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 1: of body consciousness. You can develop a technique called lucid 797 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: dreaming UM, and in rem sleep UM, you turn off 798 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: the dorsal lateral prefrontal area of your brain and that's 799 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: where most of our executive function takes place. And if 800 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,800 Speaker 1: you don't turn that off and then looks like we 801 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: can have lucid dream where you're you have insight that 802 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: you are actually in a dream. Normally we lose that 803 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,800 Speaker 1: insight as part of the usual aspect of sleep. But 804 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: you can train yourself to have lucid dreams and deer 805 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,600 Speaker 1: and lucid dreams are often out of bi experiences because 806 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: you're simultaneously turning off the temporo prival area. What happens 807 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,959 Speaker 1: if we take the vertical near death out of body 808 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: experiences as in fact being a correct reflection of reality. Now, 809 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 1: of course, as soon as you get into quantum mechanics, 810 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: then how pattern changes enormously. The whole idea of us 811 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 1: being separate is something that quantum mechanics doesn't direct. And 812 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: lies were all connected, and so I think that the 813 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: ideas of near death experience and the relationship to physical 814 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: theories of mind is very important. I think it's always 815 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: good to have a debate see both sides of an argument, 816 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: whether it's near death experiences or anything related to life 817 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,359 Speaker 1: in the afterlife. But I can tell you one thing. 818 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 1: Out of the millions of people who have had near 819 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: death experiences, I think it'd be very hard to convince 820 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,359 Speaker 1: them that it would be something other than what they experienced, 821 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,280 Speaker 1: seeing their deceased loved ones, seeing things happening in different rooms, 822 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: having that experience of God or the light and unconditional 823 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:53,400 Speaker 1: love coming back, remembering the experience so vivid, even if 824 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: it happened forty years ago. Most of them want to 825 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: serve man kind and make the earth a different place. 826 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,959 Speaker 1: What is it going to take for you to find 827 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: the answers in your life, to give you your values 828 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: and what's important. I certainly will offer you my opinion 829 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,279 Speaker 1: in now one hundred and nineteen episodes of Shades of 830 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,960 Speaker 1: the Afterlife, and I just hit three hundred and ninety 831 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: episodes of We Don't Die Radio. While there may not 832 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: be funding for near death experience research, and while I 833 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: may not receive funding for my journey of discovery, passion 834 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,640 Speaker 1: is important. So I ask you, what is going to 835 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: make your life meaningful? Like the doctor said in this episode, 836 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 1: death is nothing to be afraid of, but go live 837 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,879 Speaker 1: your life, find your passion, make a difference, have some fun, 838 00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: and for God's sakes, smile. Please come visit us at 839 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,239 Speaker 1: our home base we Don't Die dot com. Join us 840 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: for a live event. We'd love to see you. I'm 841 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,360 Speaker 1: Sanders Samplain. Thank you for listening to Shades of the 842 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, 843 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:28,400 Speaker 1: a M paranormal podcast network. And if you like this 844 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,239 Speaker 1: episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until you hear 845 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: the next one. Thank you for listening to the I 846 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a M paranormal podcast network.