1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Fillow ridiculous in stories. Welcome to our classic episode. You know, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: nowadays in the United States, if you go to the 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: grocery store, you can be reasonably certain that the stuff 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: you're buying is going to be safe, if not super healthy. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: Well, and you know, if it's not, it probably has 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 2: a giant skull and crossbones on the back or a 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 2: big warning. And so you know, it's sort of like 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: buyer beware. If you're gonna drink draino, that's on you. 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: And how did we get to this? I mean, it's 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: normalized now, but it wasn't always the case. So how 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: did we get to this really cool era of food safety? 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I mean it's it's I don't really even 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: want to spoil it, but it does remind me of 14 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 2: just like a time before something like the FDA existed 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: and it was just a wild West out there, you know, 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: in terms of what ingredients might be in food and 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: medicine and things that people were consuming on a regular basis. 18 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: It goes into like ideas of snake oil, you know, 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 2: sham remedies and all of that, and of course poison 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: in the food. Ah. 21 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: And what an excellent setup for our protagonist of the story. 22 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: We can't wait for you to meet him, A guy 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: named Harvey Wiley who didn't think that conventional safety studies 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: were enough. Wiley went straight to human experimentation. 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: No boy Wiley and his poison Squad, which also could 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: be a good hip hop crew name. Or maybe it's 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: like a poison fan club. I don't know. Let's roll 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: the tape. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: On Prussic Acid. We break our fast, we lunch on 30 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: a morphine stew, We dine with a match head, consume 31 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: and drink carbolic acid brew. That is an excerpt from 32 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: a song that will become increasingly relevant over the course 33 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: of this episode. Hi, I'm Ben. 34 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: I want to kiss you about your lips aft full 35 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: of boras, I mean your food. My name's Nol And 36 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: this is Ridiculous History and we're talking about poisoned food today. 37 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're talking about poison food. But don't worry, folks, 38 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: this will not be a downer of an episode. It's 39 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: actually pretty inspiring. As always. We'd like to introduce you 40 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: to our super producer, Casey Pegrim. 41 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 2: He's not suffering anymore apparently. 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: No, no, he's not suffering anymore. He has been through 43 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: the fire. So let's hop in the time machine. Nol, 44 00:02:59,280 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: what do you say? 45 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 2: I am down for some time travel, Casey, can we 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: get our time travel? Sound? Que perfect? 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: All right, Noel, here we are. We're in the eighteen hundreds, 48 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds. 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: Is that what we put into the time machine dial? 50 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 2: We just typed in general? Late eighteen hundreds. Yeah, it's 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: a preset button. Okay, cool, it's right next to popcorn. 52 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: Just trying to make sure I understand the intricacies of 53 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: this device, right. 54 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: Well, it's a good thing that they had that button 55 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: pre set, because it helped us get here for today's episode. 56 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: In the late eighteen hundreds, you see, food in the 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: US was bananas in a slang way. It wasn't all bananas, 58 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: that's right. There was no way to really tell what 59 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: was in your food. We take for granted that today 60 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: we can take down a packet of crisps off of 61 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: the shelf in our local grocery and we can see, 62 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, listed sequentially, what poisonous materials are in it 63 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: that will clog our arteries and slowly kill us. Back then, 64 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: it was a mystery, right exactly, It is true that 65 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: more people in the United States at least tended to 66 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: grow their own food, right, or the chicken they consumed, 67 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: for instance, would be chicken raised on their property. But 68 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: you are absolutely right about the grocery store, especially processed food, 69 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: something made in a factory with little to no oversight, 70 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: something maybe roughly along the lines of, hey, try not 71 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: to put any fingers in the beef stew. 72 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know pig parts, take your pick, right, 73 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: And things were adulterated, right. 74 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: They could be polluted purposely to save cost. Sure, right, 75 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: they could also be accidentally contaminated because there weren't very 76 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: high health standards at the time. 77 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean, we know how important it is 78 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: to wash our hands when handling raw chicken, because Gordon 79 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: Ramsay told us so. But in our home there's no 80 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: oversight as to whether or not we did that. So 81 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: if we get a food born illness, it is on 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: our heads. But at least today we can hopefully depend 83 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: that the people working in chicken processing plants or any 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: food processing plants are operating under safety guidelines that keep 85 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: us from getting contaminants in our food, and they're tested 86 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 2: to make sure said contaminants do not make it through 87 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: the process in today where we are, because we're in 88 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: the late eighteen hundreds. Not the case. No, do you 89 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: happen to see that hot headed man looking increasingly aggravated 90 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: and perturbed here on our random late eighteen hundred street. 91 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: I think he has gout. I don't doubt he has gout. 92 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: I just said that because it rhymed. I am all 93 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: about the lack of doubt that he has gout. 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: Give me a shout if you can finish the stanza 95 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: for us. Hey, but who are we talking about? 96 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: I'm so glad we pose this question. 97 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: The fellow we see there getting increasingly irritated is a 98 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: guy named Harvey Washington. 99 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 2: Wiley, Oh, he doesn't have gout. He's a very health 100 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: conscious guy. No, No, yeah, yeah, he's he's talking about 101 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: the angry guy next to him. Yeah, there's a line 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 2: of angry people here. But Harvey was angry for a 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: pretty specific reason, right Ben, Yes, absolutely. He looked around 104 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 2: at the state of food and said, looks you mean 105 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: he's doing it right now? Sure? Sure, absolutely. 106 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: He looks around and he says, what on earth is 107 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: going on here? What is actually going into people's food? 108 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: Wiley? 109 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: You see is a man on a mission. He is 110 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: a Civil War vet who, after fighting for the Union side, 111 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: returned to the Academy capital A to continue his studies. 112 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: After he graduated, he started teaching in a public school, 113 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: and then he became He went back and became a doctor. 114 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: He has bonafides, is what I'm saying here. 115 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: That's right, Ben. He got his undergrad in eighteen sixty 116 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: seven from Hanover College and then proceeded to get an 117 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: MD from Indiana Medical College in eighteen seventy one. He 118 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: also studied for a year at the Lawrence Scientific School 119 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: of Harvard University, and afterwards he became a professor. 120 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: This is all backstory for this guy next to the 121 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: guy with gout, for everyone who's keeping track of our 122 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: time travel. In eighteen seventy four, he took a position 123 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: as a professor of chemistry at Purdue University. And you 124 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 1: will find we found in the course of our research 125 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: that he did leave Purdue. But I heard an interesting 126 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: anecdote about him that I thought you might enjoy. Apparently 127 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: he left with a bit of a scandal. 128 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: A scandal. 129 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: It's a very different time, dish okay. So apparently he 130 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: left because he was riding a bicycle around campus, and 131 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: this was seen as unbecoming of a professor. 132 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, what is he some kind of common riff 133 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: raff writing a bicycle two wheels? Absurd malarkey, one would say, 134 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: what was he doing at Purdue? He was studying sugar 135 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: and sorghum cultures, and throughout this process he started discover 136 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: that the sugar that was available, I'm sorry, is available 137 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: in the time that we're still occupying in our travels 138 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: was adulterated. It had extra stuff in it that did 139 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: not belong in there, like filler right ben right. 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: And his fascination with the dark side of sweet things 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: didn't stop there. He published his first paper on food 142 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: adulteration connected to the use of glucose, specifically in honey. 143 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: This was his mission. What are you eating? 144 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: He keeps saying to people, is that when a food 145 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 2: cheets on its spouse. 146 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: Well, I guess it depends on the relationship the food 147 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: has with the spouse. 148 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: Do you think foods have to only like foods can 149 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: commune or banana commune, you know, with a piece of bread. 150 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: I don't know. This is conversation for another time. Let's 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: leave it. But he found this stuff, this filler in 152 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: the sugar, in the honey, and it made him go, huh, 153 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: maybe I haven't reached the bottom of this problem yet. 154 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: Right, how deep does this culinary rabbit hole go? So 155 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: his interests began to expand beyond the academy, right, beginning 156 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty. Oh look, now we're back in present tense. 157 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: Now we're done with his backstory. Here's what's happening to him. 158 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: Right. 159 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: He is protesting against the practice of adulteration in food 160 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: and in fertilizers, but primarily narrowing his focus to food 161 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: as time goes on. In eighteen eighty one, he was 162 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: appointed state chemist of Indiana to analyze the contents of this. 163 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: So his passion became his job. Yeah, and he was 164 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: even elected to something called the German Chemical Society, which 165 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: sounds very fancy. And he worked in Germany at a 166 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: lab called the Imperial Food Laboratory, which was in Bismarck. 167 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: And it was at this time that he started getting 168 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: really comfy with a new fangled device called the polariscope 169 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: that allowed him to do that deep research of food 170 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: stuffs and off air. We were talking about this, Nol. 171 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: You mentioned that he didn't just stay with Indiana and Germany. 172 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: Eventually he goes federal correct. 173 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: He did, in fact get a job, was appointed indeed 174 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: at the US Department of Agriculture in their Chemical division. 175 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: This was in eighteen eighty three. 176 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: And this is where he goes big time Noel, because 177 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: now he has a budget and he has the wherewithal, 178 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: the latitude, the agency to figure out how to tackle 179 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: what he sees is the systemic contamination of food in 180 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: the United States. 181 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: I think his budget was in the neighborhood of five k. 182 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: You want to plug that into your handy dandy inflation calculator. Yes, 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: five grand, five large in eighteen eighty three is equal 184 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: to about one hundred and fifteen thousand, seven hundred dollars 185 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: in today's today's cash. So not a blockbuster budget, but 186 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: not exactly meager either. But most importantly he had that budget, 187 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: he also got himself some test subjects. 188 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: Yes, twelve eager young men in their twenties who were 189 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: described as clerks that had passed the Civil Service exam 190 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: and had insatiable appetites. 191 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: There's actually a letter from one of them to Harvey 192 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: asking to be a part of this study. That really 193 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: relied on the ability to have kind of an iron gut. 194 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: And this fellow really thought he fit the bill. He says, 195 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 2: dear sir, I read in the paper of your experiments 196 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: on diet. I have a stomach can stand anything. I 197 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: have a stomach that will surprise you. I am afflicted 198 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: with seven And then he spells out seven diseases. Never 199 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: went to a for fifteen years. They told me fifteen 200 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: years ago that I could not live eight months. What 201 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: do you think of it? My stomach can hold anything. 202 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: That's the kind of guy that Harvey is looking for, 203 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: because you see, he is planning to poison these twelve 204 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: hungry men, and he's you know, he's played to poison 205 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: them with their consent. I think that's important to note some. 206 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: Kind of fetish thing. What are we talking about here. 207 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: It's sort of like in the Middle Ages they would 208 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: have the trope of the royal taste tester, who who 209 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: would check food for the aristocracy to make sure, you know, 210 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: their jellied eels weren't poisoned. 211 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: You think that guy volunteered though, I feel like he 212 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: was just some schmuck that just sort of got stuck 213 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: with that job. 214 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I bet it's one of those 215 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: jobs that you sort of fall into. It doesn't seem 216 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: like you go to school for that. You're just in 217 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: the right place at the right time, or the wrong 218 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. 219 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: But this is in. 220 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: Many ways a modern analog. He was turning these test 221 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: subjects into sort of the taste testers for the United States. 222 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: What he did was to first have them consent and 223 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: sign a waiver, essentially removing all liability from him or 224 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: the USDA, and then they would agree to eat all 225 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: of their meals three meals a day from his test kitchen. 226 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, not like America's test kitchen. This was a much 227 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: more disturbing version of that. And it had the very 228 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 2: tidy name of Hygienic Table Trials. But the Washington Post 229 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: gave it a much sexier name, didn't they. 230 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: Yes, they called it Casey. We might need some dramatic 231 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: music for this. 232 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 2: The Poison Squad, Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great 233 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: name for almost anything. The Poison Squad rolls deep. My 234 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: friend off Air Ben and I were talking about how 235 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: our new hip hop duo would maybe be called the 236 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: Port Squad. 237 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: It's either that or start a fan group for the 238 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: rock band poison, which I think we went the right 239 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: direction with hip hop. 240 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: I'm feeling it. So here's here's what he did. Here's 241 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: the kind of stuff he put in these poor guys food, borax, 242 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: copper sulfate, salicilic acid, and formaldehyde even and they would 243 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: they would just eat this food. Now, he didn't tell them. 244 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: This is important. 245 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: He didn't tell them what item would have been poisoned. 246 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: The whole meal wouldn't necessarily have some kind of contaminant 247 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: in it. But the early trials gave him some I guess, 248 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: added insight into human behavior. Because imagine you have, let's say, 249 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: just for example, roast chicken, potatoes, the coal slaw. 250 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: What else you got like four or five maybe some 251 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: asparagus here we go, a nice side, perhaps some mac 252 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: and cheese. I don't know, I'm editorializing here. 253 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: I think that's a delicious meal, and they probably did too. 254 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: But what Wile he found is that when someone was 255 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: eating something, they could detect a contaminant in the food 256 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: and they would just, you know, stop eating that mac 257 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: and cheese dish, or stop eating those potatoes. 258 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: So he realized he would. 259 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: Have to change his testing method, and he started putting 260 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: in the contaminates in these gelatin capsules. 261 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they were complaining about they could actually taste 262 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: it in the food. They say the milk tastes metallic, 263 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: or the soup tastes like it's gone bad. But ben, 264 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: was it really important that it maintained that sense of 265 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: they didn't know which one they were eating. I guess 266 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: it didn't really matter because what they're eating the capsules. 267 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: Then why do they even have to eat the meal? 268 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: Why don't you eat the capsules? Why what does the 269 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: food even play into the research anymore? At that point? Right? 270 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: Part of it is to replicate the experience of the 271 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: American household eating right, like how much how much borax 272 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: do you have to have in potatoes before you get 273 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: taste it? 274 00:15:53,960 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: Right? Just to bashtacks lightly these guys, and they had 275 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: to be guys because Wiley was a well renowned misogynist. 276 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: He said that women were quote savages and that they 277 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: were bereft of the brain capacity that men were blessed with. 278 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: So kind of a jerk. Yeah, not necessarily a good guy. 279 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: He did do some good work here, But you know, 280 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: it's that same discussion, I guess about separating the art 281 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: from the artist or the research from the researcher. But 282 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: there was a lot that went into this process. There 283 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: were a lot of measurements that had to be taken. 284 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: These subjects had to be weighed. They had to have 285 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: their poop checked, and their urine and their hair and 286 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: all kinds of bodily fluids collected, and he tested, you know, 287 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: the prevalence of these materials that would come out, and 288 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: he would check them before and after and then compare 289 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: the results. 290 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: Right, and building on Wiley's terrible opinions of women, he 291 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: did have subjectivity when he came to selecting these young men. 292 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: He wanted them to have what he described as high 293 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: moral character, which is not really something you can effectively measure. 294 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: It kind of boils down to do I like them? 295 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: And so when he was meticulously measuring these folks, or 296 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: him and his team, I should say, you were absolutely right. 297 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: They were getting there urine and their feces analyzed, being waved, 298 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: their hair was being checked. They were also getting sick. 299 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: This did happen. It wasn't something that they just stopped. 300 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: They continued and as a result, these test subjects got sick. 301 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: They learned the hard way how much borax or a 302 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: fmaldehyde is you know. 303 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: Too much and as part of their qualifications, they had 304 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: these iron guts because it just made them willing to 305 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: do the thing, I guess more than anything, to willingly 306 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: be poisoned. I'm not sure if it was were they 307 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: getting paid. I guess they had to have been getting 308 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: paid something, right, surely a stipend, I would hope. So. 309 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: Oh no, Ben, I'm sorry, I just found they weren't paid. 310 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: Their pay was there's three squares a day? Oh wow? Yeah, 311 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: so it was kind of like prison rules, different time. Indeed, 312 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: I guess so. 313 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: But they also, one could argue, were paid in public 314 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: renown because this project was a watershed moment for food 315 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: regulation in the United States, and this Poison Squad was 316 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: lionized by the press, not just the Washington Post, but 317 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: people were writing songs about them. They were writing to 318 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: their legislators and demanding food regulation because they were getting 319 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: stomach aches, they were vomiting, they had nausea, and the 320 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: public was aware of this. The song we opened the 321 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: show with, or the excerpt we opened the show with, 322 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: is from a song called the Song of the Poison 323 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: Squad by S. W. Gillilan. These were like public figures. 324 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: So I think, you know, the question is what price 325 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: could you put on fame? Would you exchange some stomach 326 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: aches and vomiting to, you know, be a national food hero. 327 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: We should also mention all that Harvey Wiley. I know, 328 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: we're making him sound like a little bit of a 329 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: mad scientist. But in his defense, he did also eat 330 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: some of these meals with his poison squad boys. 331 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: Maybe that was, you know, as a result of his 332 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: war experience. He felt like if he was going to 333 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: ask these boys to take a bullet, he had to 334 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: be willing to take one two, which. 335 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Is, you know, a great point to make. This guy 336 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: is increasingly complex. 337 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: He is quite complex, but again a total jerk when 338 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: it came to his treatment of women. As it turns out, 339 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: in addition to the slurs that I mentioned that he 340 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: said earlier, the program had a chef by the name 341 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: of Chef Perry, and at one point, according to an 342 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: article from Esquire called The Poisons An Incredible History by 343 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: Bruce Watson, Chef Perry was replaced by a female and 344 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: you know his poison squad, wile he's poison squad, they 345 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 2: were kind of his bros. And I guess maybe one 346 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: of the weird qualifications might have been misogyny as well, 347 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: because one of them was quoted as saying, a woman 348 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: a tut tut, why the very idea a woman can 349 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: potter around a domestic hearth, But when it comes to 350 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: frying eggs in a scientific mode and putting from maldehyde 351 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: in the soup, never, that was kind of my Like 352 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: the doctor the professor from Futurama, kind of came out 353 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: of nowhere, this sort of a professor Farnsworth, that's the guy. 354 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: And despite this rampant, cartoonish, supervillain level misogyny, this guy 355 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: was lauded in the in the public sphere, in magazines 356 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: like Good Housekeeping, which called him the watch dog of 357 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: the kitchen. According to an article by the Science History 358 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: in Institute, he was garnering public support. Who's garnering governmental support, 359 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: and in this specific case, public support from the same 360 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: people that he thought so little of, was instrumental enforcing 361 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: large businesses and food manufacturers to actually, you know, stop 362 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: putting formaldehyde and sodium benzoweight and stuff. 363 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 2: But there was another super villain in this story, wasn't there? 364 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: The food lobby, the dreaded food lobby who looked at 365 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: Wiley as persona non grata, and they fought him and 366 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: his findings tooth and nail and did everything in their 367 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: power to discredit him. But despite that adversity, he managed 368 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: to continue to turn public opinion to the point where 369 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 2: a law passed that led to the foundation of a 370 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: pretty important organization. 371 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: Yes, at last, at last, nineteen o six, the Pure 372 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: Food and Drugs Act passes. And this is at this 373 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: point in Wiley's life he has been an unceasing advocate 374 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: of some sort of regulation. He also, we should mention, 375 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: expanded later into the field of contamination in drugs. But 376 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: the Pure Food and Drugs Act of nineteen oh six 377 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: AKA one of the biggest reasons you're not going to 378 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: vomit when you eat a bag of chips, hopefully in 379 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: theory crisps, Yes, crisp chips, freeze, dried asparagus, cashew milk, 380 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: pretty much, any. 381 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: Any nut milk really, any nut milk really. 382 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: This Act passes with a backing of President Theodore Roosevelt, 383 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: and it specifically prohibits adulteration and misbranding of food and drugs. 384 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: At this point, it was the most comprehensive legislation of 385 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: its kind in the United States. It paved the way 386 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: for the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration. 387 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: And to make a long story short, foundation of the 388 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: Food and Drug Administration led to the nutrition and ingredient 389 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: labels that we see today in our local hole foods. 390 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: And this is something that continues in the modern day. 391 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: We are back in the present, right, But we've taken 392 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the long way around. 393 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a slog. It was a slog. We 394 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: should have just hopped back in the time machine. Spoiler alert, 395 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 2: there's no time machine. Well you know this figurative, I guess. 396 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: I mean, we're all time travelers, aren't. We were just 397 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: moving at a rate of one second. It's all about imagination. 398 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 2: There we go, There we go. And when you and 399 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: I were looking into this, I don't know about you, Nol, 400 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: but I was surprised to find that some food legislation 401 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 2: was far more recent than one would have supposed. I 402 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: am surprised to hear that, Ben tell me more. I'm 403 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 2: so glad, I'm so glad you're into this. In nineteen ninety, 404 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: the Nutrition Labeling and Education Act passes. This requires all 405 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: packaged food to bear nutrition labeling and all health claims 406 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,239 Speaker 2: for food to be consistent with current regulations. There's a 407 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: really interesting and strange ongoing conflict between food advertisers and 408 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: the US government and probably the government in which you 409 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: live if it's not the US. Like all, have you 410 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: ever gone grocery shopping and you see a cereal that says, 411 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 2: maybe it's all natural or wholesome? How do you define wholesome? Yeah, 412 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: that's sort of vague. Language is a thing all across manufacturing, 413 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 2: and like I guess a good example is like a 414 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 2: bottle of water where it as it contains up to 415 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: ten percent recycled material, and that up to could mean zero, yeah, 416 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: it could be up to zero zero, zero, zero, zero, 417 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: one percent. Yeah, and you see that with food packaging. 418 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: Of course, these regulations are hugely important. But with any regulation, 419 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 2: you're going to find a loophole, right, and manufacturers are 420 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 2: doing that all over the place. 421 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: We found in the course of poking around in this 422 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: food war between advertisers in the government, we found that 423 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: contamination of foods or counterfeiting of foods still occurs today, 424 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: and this is kind of surprising. One of the anecdotes 425 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: that I heard unconfirmed was that there was a calamari 426 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: counterfeiting problem is. 427 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: That the ones that's made of pig buttoles. 428 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, no, ch Chitlin's fried with some sort of 429 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: adulterants who make them taste more seafood y. 430 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 2: Is this true? This is true? I always heard that 431 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: was urban myth. Is it really true? Ben? 432 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to ruin this for everyone, so I 433 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: will say that I have not seen a hard, wide 434 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: reaching study on this. But there's a pretty interesting piece 435 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: that ran on This American Life about what's marketed as 436 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: imitation calamari. So it's not illegal to sell something as imitation, right, 437 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: like imitation crab meat or one of our mutual favorites 438 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: cheese food flavored product. 439 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, or even back to our margarine versus Butter episode, 440 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: where the reason that margarine was so maligned by the 441 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 2: butter industry is because it was looked at as potentially 442 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 2: being sold as a faux butter. But that all powerful 443 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 2: butter lobby made damn sure that the margarine folks couldn't 444 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: even color the stuff yellow. And we got a great 445 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 2: email that think we'll read about die packs in margarine, 446 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: that people could dye their own margarines so they could 447 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: make it yellow at home. 448 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: That one comes with pictures and we're going to post 449 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: those on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter where you can find 450 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: us as ridiculous history or some variation thereof. So while 451 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: we're in the modern day to sew it up. Another 452 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: thing that is often reported as counterfeit would be sushi. 453 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: Study by nonprofit group Oceana around twenty sixteen cited that 454 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: thirty nine percent of restaurants in New York City are 455 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: serving fraudulent fish, a phrase that I am oddly fond of. 456 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: It's it's it's like a good insult. You could call 457 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: someone a fraudulent fish, faux fish, a faux fish. And 458 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: according to these reports, what's happening is that restaurants or 459 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,239 Speaker 1: maybe even wholesalers are selling a cheaper alternative to a 460 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: certain type of fish a grade. 461 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: Maybe right, right, you got a sushi grade tuna, but 462 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: maybe they're selling a slightly cheaper cut and calling it 463 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 2: that is that? What is that what you're saying? 464 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one. That's one aspect of it, h for sure. 465 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: But here's here's one of the really dirty ones. Since 466 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: we're talking about tuna. 467 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: Dirty, some of the fraudulent fish that would be substituted 468 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 2: for tuna is something called escolar, commonly referred to in 469 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 2: the seafood industry as x lax fish. Does it do 470 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: what I think it does? 471 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: Yes, it is not an ironic name. This is not 472 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: a little job and situation got it. So the problems 473 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: continue today, but luckily they were mitigated to a great 474 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: and amazing degree by one man who was not perfect, 475 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: who made it his mission to clean up the grocery store. 476 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and today, I think a big thing that we're 477 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 2: still having to deal with is concern about pesticides being 478 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: in our food and hormones being injected into livestock and 479 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: it kind of leaching into milk and eggs because you know, 480 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: back in the day, in the early days we were 481 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: talking about livestock was largely being raised by individual families 482 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 2: on family farms. Today, you know, the meatpacking industry is 483 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: a whole ginormous conglomerate, and you know there is concern 484 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: about that. So hopefully the FDA continues to fulfill its mission. 485 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: But you can never be sure, right because I mean, 486 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: it is only one organization, and there's so many new 487 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: food products coming out all the time. Even recently, the 488 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: Sargento company recalled a huge batch of their ultra thin 489 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: sliced longhorn Colby six four ounce product, and with this 490 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: recall comes the UPC code and all of that because 491 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 2: some adulterants made it through the process. So even with 492 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: this organization and the work of our misogynist friend, stuff 493 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: still does make it through. That might even give the 494 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 2: most iron gutted of us a run for our money, 495 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: no matter how many pre existing diseases you have. For 496 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: the runs or the run for our money, I don't know. 497 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: There we go spot on and we want to hear 498 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: from you. What are your encounters with contaminated or adult 499 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: orated food? What do you think about the FDA? And 500 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: also just out of curiosity, what's the weirdest thing you 501 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: ever ate? 502 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: Was it good? Let us know? You know, this makes 503 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: me think of there's a Tim and Eric sketch of 504 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 2: songs called all the Food Is Poison. It's just like tacos, poison, 505 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 2: hot dogs. It's poisons. I just rattling off food and 506 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 2: all the food is poison. That's just that's gonna be 507 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: in my head for the rest of the day. Now. 508 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: If you haven't seen that, check it out. It's it's upsetting. 509 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: And speaking of you, friends and neighbors, follow food fans 510 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: or food fiends alike, it's time for listener mail. 511 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 2: Our first listener mail comes from Gordon in Ontario, Canada. 512 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: He says Jents. I thoroughly enjoyed the last week's margarine episode. 513 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: Of all things, it brought back childhood memories of small 514 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: town Ontario and the packaging innovation shown below. We mentioned 515 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: this a little while ago. Ontario consumers were restricted by 516 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: law from buying yellow margarine and got really tired of 517 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: messing up their mixing bowls to color their lily white 518 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: edible oil spread. Ben, do you see the impulse there? 519 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 2: Why do we need to trick ourselves? We know it's 520 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: not butter. It's very strange because you know again, folks, 521 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: you have to see these pictures. It's so it's so weird. 522 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: I was wondering where this motivation would come from, and 523 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: I can't help but think maybe there was a cook 524 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: somewhere who was buying margarine and wanted it to appear 525 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: to be butter at the home dinner table or in 526 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: a restaurant. But there was a there's a weird method 527 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: to this product. 528 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: Well, it really strengthens big butters beef with margarine. That 529 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: this coloring was such an important factor. So the message 530 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: goes on, So folks really got tired of messing up 531 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 2: their mixing bowls to color their lily white edible oil spread. 532 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 2: In the early sixties, the manufacturer responded by selling uncolored 533 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: margarine and sealed plastic bags with a tiny button of 534 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: food dye in the middle. I recall being tasked by 535 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 2: my mom with popping the dye button and squishing the 536 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: bag until the color was nice. In uniform, it's called 537 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: easy color. He sent us some amazing picks and it 538 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: shows the process of the lily white oil spread and 539 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: the bag. A pair of delightful sixties kind of Frank 540 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: Lloyd Wright painted fingernailman's hands squishing the bag. You see 541 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: the little nipple in the middle popping with color, and 542 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: then more squishing hands with a diamond ring and then 543 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: boom it ends mixing bowl mess. The taste tells that's 544 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 2: the slogan. Oh there's another slogan too, it's pinched the color. 545 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: Berry need the bag for that rich, creamy flavor. Oh 546 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 2: my gosh, thank you so much for writing in Gordon, 547 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 2: this email, this email made our day and I keep 548 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: staring at these old advertisements. I think we're both fans 549 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: of vintage ads. Love it so much. He does in 550 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: the letter with easy color, truly stupid and yes ridiculous. 551 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: And our next email comes from Holly. Holly writes in 552 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: to say, one of my favorite things about the Old 553 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: Green Acres show was when they had to climb up 554 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: the pole outside the house to answer the phone or 555 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: make a call. Listening to your podcast brought to mind 556 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: one of the more memorable phone related episodes. Oliver got 557 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: really upset with the phone company and decided he could 558 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: do better, so they gave them the keys to the switchboard. 559 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: Hilarity ensues. Holly cites this it's Oliver versus the Phone 560 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: Company in nineteen sixty seven, Holly continues. Until I listen 561 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: to your show, I assumed that this was just a 562 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: way of laughing at how backwards their farming culture was 563 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: still using a system that was long gone, even in 564 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: rural areas. But it was filmed in the late sixties, 565 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and according to your report, phone systems like that were 566 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: still operational at that time. And this was not so 567 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: unbelievable as I imagined it to be. Instead of a 568 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: dig at a negative aspect of rural culture hopelessly stuck 569 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: in the past, that show was more of a negative 570 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: view of the upper crust not being able to adapt, 571 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: which of course was the theme of the entire series. 572 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for the podcast, and thanks to Green Acres for 573 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: presenting their own ridiculous history. 574 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: New York as well. I'd rather stay, I get a 575 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: logic smelling. Hey, yeah, that was them. It presented two 576 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: sides in the theme. You know, the dude really was easy. 577 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: You know, what does he say? Fresh Air, DA Times 578 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: Square something, you are my wife? Goodbye city life? You know, yeah, 579 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: that's a really good point. It almost is the satire 580 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: of the upper crust and what big babies they can be. 581 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, And this concludes our listener mail, but not 582 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: our show. We hope you enjoyed this look at the 583 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: strange yet profoundly important mission of Harvey Wiley and his 584 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: poison Squad, and we hope you tune in for our 585 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: next episode, which takes us to ancient India. 586 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're gonna get super shady and. 587 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: Leave it at that, So tune in as always. Thanks 588 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: to our super producer, Casey Pegram. Thanks to Candice Gibson, 589 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: our contributor who wrote the article Ridiculous History, An ambitious 590 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: chemist and a poison Squad. 591 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 2: Thanks you Alex Williams for composing our theme, and thanks 592 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 2: to you for tuning in, and we hope you'll join 593 00:34:51,000 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 2: us for the next episode of Ridiculous History. For more 594 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 595 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.