WEBVTT - Help for Higher Earners w/ Rachael Camp #791 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.440 Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.920 and today we're talking help for high earners with Rachel Camp. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.639 Yeah. So, I think very few folks feel rich right like, 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.599 even if they're doing really well for themselves. And oftentimes 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.000 I think that has the most to do with the 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.480 hedonic treadmill. We think we need a new car, or 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.000 a vacation, a new house. We think all those things 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.080 are going to make us happy, but we quickly return 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.240 to our baseline happiness and at the end of the day, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.520 folks definitely don't feel rich. But guess what, I think 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.479 a lot of folks, especially couples who are able to 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.400 share the load of some of those big expenses like housing, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.800 I think those folks would be surprised to find themselves 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:01.080 in the top ten percent. We're very near there of 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.160 earners in the US. And when you make a lot 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:04.920 of money, or at least if you hope to, it 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.880 takes a different approach to how you should handle your finances. 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.600 That's why we're excited to be joined by Rachel Camp. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.920 She's the owner of Camp Wealth who is on a 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.920 mission to help her clients build, and not only build. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.240 But also preserve their wealth. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.240 But it's also not just the six figure earners who 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.160 are pursuing financial independence. She believes that anyone can actually 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.039 do that. We're going to talk about that and more today. Rachel, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.160 thanks so much for joining the podcast. 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.720 Yeah, thanks for having me. A huge fan of the podcast. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.720 I didn't get to tell you guys that before. We've 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.680 been listening for a while, so I'm happy. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:37.160 To be here, all right. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.039 Well, thanks Rachel. Yeah, no, we're glad to have you. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.760 I found you on Twitter. You are one of those 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.280 rare good things that comes from the devastating platform that 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.680 is now called x ye. So glad that happened. Our 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.320 first question to every guest who comes on the show 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.280 is what's your craft beer equivalent? Because while Matt and 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.400 I spend ridiculous amounts on great craft beer, top notch stuff, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.200 we are also saving and invest saying wisely for the future. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.320 What's that for you? I know you're saving and investing, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.080 but what do you like to spend a ridiculous amount 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:06.360 of money on here and now? 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:06.920 Oh? 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.360 Yeah, I mean I could go on and on about this, 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.040 but I will try to keep it concise. Actually, my 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.080 financial life is designed in a way where I keep 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.360 fixed expenses really really low, so transportation, housing really low, 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.120 and I get to splurge everywhere else that I want to, 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.880 so you know, the big ones for the for daily expenses, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.800 I do love a latte. I'm very classic millennial in 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.560 that sense. But outside of that, you know, anything experiences, 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.919 so like I just bought an insane amount or I'm sorry, 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:41.040 I spent an insane amount on snowboarding, boots, anything fitness related, 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:42.240 so everything like that. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:43.960 I when I go to spend the money, I. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.000 Just know that there's some people whould think that that 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.240 is insane. But I've intentionally designed my life so I 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.160 can really splurge in those areas when I want to. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:53.880 I love that. 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.160 Is the latte like a daily habit? Or is this 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.079 like a couple times a week? I'm curious And obviously 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.120 obviously you didn't read David Box's book The Late Factor. 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.280 Right, avoided that one. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.320 No, it's it's probably three four times a week. So 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.720 actually I look at it as an investment. That's how 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:16.800 I justify it because I work really well from coffee shops. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.920 There's something about being there that I can just tap 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.600 into deep work really easily, and so of course I 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.400 have to get myself a latte. I love a good 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.920 Macha lte, and so it works really well for me, 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.720 and I really, I truly do enjoy the latte, so 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.040 it's worth the splurge for me. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:32.720 Very cool. 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.200 You know that's funny. Joel and I we joke about 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.920 a mutual friend of ours who is always at the 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.960 coffee shop that is right here near our office. 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:42.920 He's like the mayor of that coffee shop. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.920 And but I was thinking about it the other day 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.920 and I thought, you know what if he is kind 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.800 of one of the pros and cons between showing up 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.320 there whatever he wants, being in a great spot where 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.200 he can see some friends, expand his network, and all 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.160 he's got to do is pay rent by buying a Lotte, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.720 by buying a coffee that can harry to a co 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.320 working space. It is so much more affordable for him 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.400 to do that as opposed to, you know, some stuffy 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.360 co working kind of space, which obviously they're making all 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.840 those cool and they also include coffee, but it's not 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.200 the same as going to the place that's got the 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:16.120 best pastries in town. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.919 Makes me think of JK. Rowling, who it was like 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.400 cheaper instead of paying for the heat and her house. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.240 She went to the coffee shop. Matt, you and I 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.360 got to go, like see the coffee shop where Harry 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:27.719 Potter was birth like pink elephant or something red elephant, 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.200 something something like that, something my elephant related. But yeah, 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.560 I mean I get that, Rachel. I think I can. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:33.920 I can understand your reasoning on that. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:34.320 Yeah. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.200 Actually I sat down and calculated what I was spending 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.560 on the lattes too compared to a co working space. 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.560 And I'm coming on ahead, So yes, of. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:48.920 Course you did. Rachel is a CFP that in her intro. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.200 But and actually, am I correct? 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.160 Do you come from a long line of cfps. 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.880 It's a short line. Yeah, a short line. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:57.800 Okay, I think it's your dad. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.719 My dad's a CFP propel you into the profession. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:02.159 A little bit. 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.840 Yeah, it's interesting. He honestly, growing up he was kind 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.479 of more on the insurance side. It wasn't until maybe 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.440 like ten years ago he got his CFP started going 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.480 more into the financial planning route. But he is a 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.799 big reason that once I decided to get my degree 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.880 in finance, that I actually went to the wealth management space, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.520 you know, not something like investment banking. Or, which I'm 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.600 really grateful for because that is soul crushing, but he is. Yeah, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.880 he was a motivator for that. But also not a 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.760 lot of young people know about this industry. It's a 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.720 lot of gray hair, and so it was a little 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.640 bit abnormal for me to go into the sector. And 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.320 so he is a big reason for that. When I 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.920 went out and got my first job, I was the 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:48.800 youngest person in the office by far. 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:50.640 I believe it. Super cool, Yeah, I believe it and 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.200 set you apart though. Yeah, And it's fun and interesting 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.800 to see like a new breed, a new generation of 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:02.000 cfps of people who care about this not from sort 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.000 of like and they're starting their own firms, their own businesses, 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.760 their own small businesses as a way, and it just 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.599 seems like such a healthy approach. I think that the 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.960 new generation is taking versus kind of some of the 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.640 ways that the industry used to run. I'm curious, with 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.039 your dad being a CFP and like incredibly knowledgeable about 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.880 the topic of insurance, what were money conversations like around 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.760 your table growing up? If like, were you guys constantly 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.760 having money conversations? Was it something he kind of left 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.839 at the office. How was that impacting you as you 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:32.279 were growing up. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.239 Yeah, I think it's probably surprising. We actually really didn't 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.599 have a lot of technical discussions around money. On the 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.320 other side, though, my dad was very entrepreneurial and a 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.360 big believer in having control over your income. So that 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.279 was really what the discussions were centered around, was figure 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.000 out a way to kind of create your own thing 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.599 and you know, don't work really hard just to make 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.720 somebody else rich. So he was really focused on that. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.440 As far as technical, you know, financial things. Surprisingly, it's 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.880 that was more of my mom's side. Actually, one of 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.560 my flexes is that my grandpa on my mom's side 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:10.080 was an early He was an og Jack Bogel and 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:15.560 Vanguard fit. Oh yeah, I yeah. Once I realized that, 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.400 I thought that was the coolest thing ever. But he 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.080 huge fan of like millionaire next door. So a lot 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.520 of that, you know, the power of compounding interest and 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.000 saving your money and becoming that millionaire next door actually 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:29.840 came more from my mom's. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.360 Side, and then my dad's. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.880 Was more of the you know, entrepreneur and pushing us 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:35.120 to kind of start. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.640 Our own businesses. But influences on both sides. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:43.120 Yeah, exactly, good intersection for you to come from. But oh, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:44.360 I was gonna say, it makes me think of I 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.360 met a recent friend and he was talking about how 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.560 his mom grew up in Omaha and he had a 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:52.120 big old. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:53.280 Flex which was that? 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.080 Which is that his mom grew up with the buffet kids. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:58.600 That sounds like a huge flex what. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.960 I don't know if this should be surprising or not, 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.640 but he's like, not surprising. I'm into finance as well. Yeah, 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:06.520 I don't know. I'm like, well, that's that's like the 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.880 CLIs thing I've learned from somebody in the past like 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.080 year and a half, being in a new town in 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.200 a new city. But we're talking about millionaires personal finance advice, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.640 Like it's often targeted to the middle class, but high 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.600 earners they actually need some help saving on taxes and 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.720 maximizing their wealth building potential as well. Like what is 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.400 it that made you opt to focus on that group 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.560 in particular? And I guess too, Maybe it's good to 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.480 sort of set the stage, like how do you define 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.360 a high wage earner? 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.880 Yeah, I mean we could put a number to it, 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.320 or we could personage, you know, top ten percent. Most 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.200 of my clients, I'll say make at least five hundred thousand, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.160 and decent amount of them are approaching seven figures and 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.000 beyond too. Yeah, so really really high earners. And I 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.240 always say, you know, making money managing money are two 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.800 very distinct skill sets. So when I decided to focus 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:02.400 on high earners, I really saw distinction and the need 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.280 for somebody to kind of come in and say, Okay, 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.480 you've done a great job making the money. Now let's 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.160 figure out how to optimize and manage the money. And 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:10.679 then you know, I'm sure it's not surprising to you, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.599 but there are a lot of people who make a 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.079 lot of money and don't have a lot to show 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.439 for it, haven't actually built a lot. 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.720 Of wealth with it. So you know, seeing some of 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:21.440 those problems. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:22.719 In my first job, you know, I was at a 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.200 huge firm, was out in Chicago, and we worked with 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.120 ultra ultra high networth, so at least five million in assets, 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.679 you know, and we managed over a billion. So I 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.640 got to see kind of that side of people to 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.320 where they would come in with a tremendous amount of money. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.840 A lot of them went through exits. 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.920 So we had some tech entrepreneurs that all of a 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.520 sudden came into a huge sum of money and we're 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.040 very lost about what to do with it and really 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.079 didn't have a grasp on some basic personal finance concepts. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.079 So seeing that at that extreme, I knew that there 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.079 was a demand for or a need for financial planners 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.520 there to kind of help them start to manage this money. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.480 And then too, you know, selfishly, I've always liked to 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.640 help people where I'm kind of in a similar situations. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.920 Why I like to help small business owners as well, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.360 so being younger but also making you know, a good salary. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.360 Went into finance partially for that reason. I noticed that, yeah, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.200 that there wasn't a lot of content or planners centered 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.480 around helping a younger generation manage their money. So that 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.480 was a big influence on me to get into that 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:31.320 and fill that need. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.760 Yeah, it's also, hey, these are the things you're kind 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.480 of tackling for yourself, so why not then pass the 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.560 knowledge and help other people with the stuff you're already 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.320 kind of working through on your own. Okay, question, what 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.560 are high earners typically? What are their biggest needs when 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.719 they come to you for advice? Like, I'm sure it 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.880 runs across the board, and you mentioned how like even 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:55.079 people who have high salaries sometimes they're still spending way 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.400 too much, right, they're not saving enough, they don't have 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.800 a high enough savings rate. Are you even broaching the 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.640 topic of like frugality with people who earn eight hundred 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.199 k a year, Like, do you have to have those 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:05.160 kinds of conversations? 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:05.920 You do? 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.560 You know, it's really interesting. One of the first things 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.400 I look at is cash flow. It's one of the 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.959 very first meetings I have, So where's our money going? 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.200 When I ask the question to people, where's your money going? 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.480 I never get a response. Nobody has any idea. And 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.800 there's a lot of high earners too that like think 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:23.960 they're doing fairly well. You know, they're putting away, say 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.520 one hundred k into savings, but if we break that 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.679 out as a percentage of their income, you know, it's 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.760 actually really low, could be like ten percent. So taking 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.160 that and translating it to a percentage for them is 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.240 really helpful and really eye opening. So that's one of 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.920 the things that we look at. Cash Flow is really important, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.760 and if there is an issue, if they're overspending, then 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.520 of course we have to start talking about that. I'm 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.440 a huge fan of reverse budgeting, especially for high earners, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.439 as the money comes in, let's put it to work 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.320 right away and investing, you know, paying the bills and 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.359 then spending what's left over. Now, that is a process 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.120 we have to leg into that. We can't just go 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.040 from saving ten percent to thirty percent. So that's something 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.120 that we will work through after that. Honestly, taxes, by 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.240 far the biggest thing that people come to me for, 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.360 whether they're a high earner or small business owner. Usually 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.120 it's I get a lot of people coming in after 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.800 tax time, after they've paid their tax bill and just 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.760 trying to figure out how they can spend lesson taxes. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.440 And it's interesting too, and you mentioned this that so 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.959 much of the personal finance content is geared to kind 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.880 of middle class, and as a result, I see a 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.199 lot of really high earners coming in and they're putting 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.760 a lot of money into like wroth accounts rather than 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.720 pre tax accounts. So that's a mistake that I usually 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.600 see for high earners, and so it's about kind of 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.480 shifting that and then finding some other avenues like charitable giving. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.000 There's a way to do that in a tax efficient manner, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.160 and really having a big checklist and kind of going 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.480 through each item to see, can we save on taxes here? 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.240 Can we optimize taxes anywhere? Yeah? 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.480 I got to think that that takes a big old 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.560 I mean, I don't like paying taxes. I can't imagine 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.760 somebody who's like breaking in some serious money and just 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.520 what that feels like. The psychological component of that is, yeah, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.319 oh my gosh, it's painful. And of course, this time 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.679 of year, as everyone's getting their documents together, I'm sure 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.240 it's on a lot lot more folks minds. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.880 I'm curious. I kind of laughed to myself when you 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:21.360 said that. 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.319 It sounds like what you're doing is putting these millionaires 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.959 on budgets. Do you get much pushback when it comes 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.600 to that, because I'm like, I was about to say Mint, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.040 but you know, Mint, they're running off into the sunset. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.160 But when it comes to Whinea, yeah, whiteabb or copilot, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.600 when it comes to personal budgets, it seems so quaint 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:40.520 and I could I feel like I could see a 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.719 lot of high earners really pushing back on that. Or 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.720 are they able to embrace that because they're used to 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.440 seeing balance sheets and their own profit and laws statements 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:50.240 from their business. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.520 No, I think they embrace it. I've rarely had somebody 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.480 say I can't do that. I can't make those changes, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.960 because that's what they're coming to me for. You know, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.599 they know that there's some thing in there that isn't optimized. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.120 They're worried that they're not building wealth in the best 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.520 way or building enough wealth. So if they come to 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.120 me and that is something I notice that we're spending 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.720 a bit too much, they're very receptive of it. And 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.080 you know, I'm very careful with how I approach it too. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.960 It's not a matter of you're spending you know, seventy 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.360 percent of your income, We've got to cut that in half. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.560 It's more of let's walk through it, see where the 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.520 money is going, and kind of figure out a plan 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.880 to how it can shift it more to savings. So 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:34.920 and there's several different ways to do it. Like I said, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.240 I love to show them on a percentage basis where 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.359 their money is going. They hate to see the percentage 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:40.600 that is going to taxes. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:43.680 But when you. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.520 Approach it or bring it up in a way, especially 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.120 with taxes in a tax efficient manner, because even if 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.360 we're talking about just a taxable brokerage account, there's a 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:52.760 lot of. 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.840 Tax excuse me. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.720 There's a lot of tax advantages within a taxable brokerage account. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.960 So if I frame it in that way, in a 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.640 way that we're building wealth and we're going to be 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.720 saving on taxes this way, they are much more receptive 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.760 to it. And then many of them too, have a 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.240 goal of generational wealth, so it does really bother them 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.280 if they're not putting enough money away to where the 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.200 next generation can't carry on this wealth. So it's just 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.080 about framing it the correct way, making sure that it 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.800 aligns with their goals. Once they figure out their goals, 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.080 it's very easy to say, if we want to hit 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.240 these goals, this is how we kind of have to 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.280 shift the money. So it's all about lining it up 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.640 with what they first tell you that they want. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.760 Yeah, it's probably also going to have a mindset shift 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.760 on just kind of how we think about taxes too. 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.720 I think oftentimes it's like taxes are the enemy, and 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.320 in some ways more paying more taxes mean our goal. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:47.760 They're the enemy. 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.200 Paying more taxes means hey, you're crushing it, right, And 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.800 so it's like nobody in the right mind would take 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.080 a two hundred thousand dollars pay cut in order to 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.440 pay less taxes. And so I guess we have to 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.680 kind of have that shift too and just realize, okay, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.080 cool or taxes might mean more success might mean higher 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.920 investment returns and just a higher paycheck. Two. So that's 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.400 one thought. But okay, talk to me too about investment accounts. Yeah, 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.200 you mentioned the WROTH and that is something that Matt 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.400 and I talked about regularly. For middle class folks. The 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.360 roth Ira is you know, a gotcha. It's incredible, Like 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.080 everybody you know making average money should be contributing and 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.520 hopefully maxing out the roth ira or let's say the 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.840 WROTH four O one k. But if you if you're 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.080 making five hundred and fifty k, well, the WROTH four 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.160 O one k probably doesn't make nearly as much sense 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.000 as the traditional because you're able to take a big 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.840 tax break now. And what yeah, what other accounts? How 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.480 else would you steer high income earners into specific account types. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.440 Yeah, I don't want to say that I steer them 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.320 away from WROTH because that's not the case at all. 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:48.960 I mean a high earner. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.200 To tell them that we can put money into an 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.240 account and we get tax free growth. That is, you know, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.480 a huge benefit, something that all higher owners should know about. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.840 But it's really it's zooming out a bit and looking 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.120 lifetime tax rate, not the year tax rate. Everybody's obsessed 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.720 with how can I bring down taxes this year. What 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.560 we should do is dooom all the way out and say, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.600 how can we pay the least amount you know, legally 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.640 of course in taxes over our lifetime? And that's where 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.800 we and of course we can't. The variables that we 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.200 don't know, like what's your future income? What are future 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:21.879 tax rates? 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:22.640 Makes this a. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.560 Bit complex, But there are some things that we do know, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.440 So what is your tax bracket today? And then maybe 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.800 do we have an estimated guess of how that's going 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.600 to change. So say somebody's making five hundred K, but 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.240 they're very young and anticipate making over a million someday, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.280 maybe a wroth makes sense for them. It's hard to 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.320 say who should go into what account until we look 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.159 at that person's individual life. I will say I'm a 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.280 big fan of for high earners of this combination of 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.960 doing pre tax four oh one ks and then a 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.320 backdoor wroth. So for many of them they can't directly 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.440 contribute to the there is a way to get around 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:02.920 it as long as you don't have money in any 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:07.240 IRA accounts. So that combination I love because those people 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.600 can't make a deductible IRA contribution anyway, so we might 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.040 as well fill that up with the backdoor wroth. So 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.000 I love that that combination. We don't completely exclude the wroth, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.800 but we bring it in when it makes sense. And 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.120 that's one of the times where I see it makes 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.760 the most sense, is complementing a traditional four one K 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.280 contribution makes. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.040 A lot of sense. Okay, I kind of want to 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.560 walk this back a little bit, Rachel. I'm thinking about 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.760 a second ago you were talking about generational wealth and 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.560 how that's oftentimes either a goal for a lot of 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.200 folks or maybe something that they're having a hard time 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.240 kind of wrapping their heads around. Do you talk with 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.359 a lot of clients about that, like more from like 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.359 a philosophical point of view, like whether or not it 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.600