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Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking help for high earners with Rachel Camp.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I think very few folks feel rich right like,

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Speaker 2: even if they're doing really well for themselves. And oftentimes

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Speaker 2: I think that has the most to do with the

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Speaker 2: hedonic treadmill. We think we need a new car, or

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Speaker 2: a vacation, a new house. We think all those things

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Speaker 2: are going to make us happy, but we quickly return

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Speaker 2: to our baseline happiness and at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: folks definitely don't feel rich. But guess what, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks, especially couples who are able to

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Speaker 2: share the load of some of those big expenses like housing,

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Speaker 2: I think those folks would be surprised to find themselves

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Speaker 2: in the top ten percent. We're very near there of

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Speaker 2: earners in the US. And when you make a lot

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Speaker 2: of money, or at least if you hope to, it

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Speaker 2: takes a different approach to how you should handle your finances.

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Speaker 2: That's why we're excited to be joined by Rachel Camp.

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Speaker 2: She's the owner of Camp Wealth who is on a

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Speaker 2: mission to help her clients build, and not only build.

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Speaker 1: But also preserve their wealth.

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Speaker 2: But it's also not just the six figure earners who

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Speaker 2: are pursuing financial independence. She believes that anyone can actually

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Speaker 2: do that. We're going to talk about that and more today. Rachel,

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Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. A huge fan of the podcast.

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Speaker 3: I didn't get to tell you guys that before. We've

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Speaker 3: been listening for a while, so I'm happy.

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Speaker 4: To be here, all right.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks Rachel. Yeah, no, we're glad to have you.

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Speaker 1: I found you on Twitter. You are one of those

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Speaker 1: rare good things that comes from the devastating platform that

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Speaker 1: is now called x ye. So glad that happened. Our

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Speaker 1: first question to every guest who comes on the show

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Speaker 1: is what's your craft beer equivalent? Because while Matt and

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Speaker 1: I spend ridiculous amounts on great craft beer, top notch stuff,

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Speaker 1: we are also saving and invest saying wisely for the future.

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Speaker 1: What's that for you? I know you're saving and investing,

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Speaker 1: but what do you like to spend a ridiculous amount

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Speaker 1: of money on here and now?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I could go on and on about this,

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Speaker 3: but I will try to keep it concise. Actually, my

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Speaker 3: financial life is designed in a way where I keep

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Speaker 3: fixed expenses really really low, so transportation, housing really low,

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Speaker 3: and I get to splurge everywhere else that I want to,

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Speaker 3: so you know, the big ones for the for daily expenses,

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Speaker 3: I do love a latte. I'm very classic millennial in

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Speaker 3: that sense. But outside of that, you know, anything experiences,

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Speaker 3: so like I just bought an insane amount or I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I spent an insane amount on snowboarding, boots, anything fitness related,

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Speaker 3: so everything like that.

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Speaker 4: I when I go to spend the money, I.

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Speaker 3: Just know that there's some people whould think that that

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Speaker 3: is insane. But I've intentionally designed my life so I

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Speaker 3: can really splurge in those areas when I want to.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Is the latte like a daily habit? Or is this

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Speaker 1: like a couple times a week? I'm curious And obviously

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Speaker 1: obviously you didn't read David Box's book The Late Factor.

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Speaker 4: Right, avoided that one.

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Speaker 3: No, it's it's probably three four times a week. So

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Speaker 3: actually I look at it as an investment. That's how

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Speaker 3: I justify it because I work really well from coffee shops.

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Speaker 3: There's something about being there that I can just tap

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Speaker 3: into deep work really easily, and so of course I

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Speaker 3: have to get myself a latte. I love a good

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Speaker 3: Macha lte, and so it works really well for me,

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Speaker 3: and I really, I truly do enjoy the latte, so

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Speaker 3: it's worth the splurge for me.

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Speaker 1: Very cool.

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Speaker 2: You know that's funny. Joel and I we joke about

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Speaker 2: a mutual friend of ours who is always at the

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Speaker 2: coffee shop that is right here near our office.

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Speaker 1: He's like the mayor of that coffee shop.

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Speaker 2: And but I was thinking about it the other day

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Speaker 2: and I thought, you know what if he is kind

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Speaker 2: of one of the pros and cons between showing up

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Speaker 2: there whatever he wants, being in a great spot where

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Speaker 2: he can see some friends, expand his network, and all

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Speaker 2: he's got to do is pay rent by buying a Lotte,

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Speaker 2: by buying a coffee that can harry to a co

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Speaker 2: working space. It is so much more affordable for him

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Speaker 2: to do that as opposed to, you know, some stuffy

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Speaker 2: co working kind of space, which obviously they're making all

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Speaker 2: those cool and they also include coffee, but it's not

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Speaker 2: the same as going to the place that's got the

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Speaker 2: best pastries in town.

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Speaker 1: Makes me think of JK. Rowling, who it was like

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Speaker 1: cheaper instead of paying for the heat and her house.

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Speaker 1: She went to the coffee shop. Matt, you and I

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Speaker 1: got to go, like see the coffee shop where Harry

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Speaker 1: Potter was birth like pink elephant or something red elephant,

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Speaker 1: something something like that, something my elephant related. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I get that, Rachel. I think I can.

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Speaker 1: I can understand your reasoning on that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Actually I sat down and calculated what I was spending

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Speaker 3: on the lattes too compared to a co working space.

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Speaker 3: And I'm coming on ahead, So yes, of.

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Speaker 2: Course you did. Rachel is a CFP that in her intro.

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Speaker 1: But and actually, am I correct?

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Speaker 2: Do you come from a long line of cfps.

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Speaker 4: It's a short line. Yeah, a short line.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's your dad.

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Speaker 2: My dad's a CFP propel you into the profession.

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Speaker 4: A little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting. He honestly, growing up he was kind

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Speaker 3: of more on the insurance side. It wasn't until maybe

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Speaker 3: like ten years ago he got his CFP started going

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Speaker 3: more into the financial planning route. But he is a

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Speaker 3: big reason that once I decided to get my degree

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Speaker 3: in finance, that I actually went to the wealth management space,

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Speaker 3: you know, not something like investment banking. Or, which I'm

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Speaker 3: really grateful for because that is soul crushing, but he is. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was a motivator for that. But also not a

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Speaker 3: lot of young people know about this industry. It's a

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Speaker 3: lot of gray hair, and so it was a little

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Speaker 3: bit abnormal for me to go into the sector. And

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Speaker 3: so he is a big reason for that. When I

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Speaker 3: went out and got my first job, I was the

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Speaker 3: youngest person in the office by far.

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Speaker 1: I believe it. Super cool, Yeah, I believe it and

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Speaker 1: set you apart though. Yeah, And it's fun and interesting

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Speaker 1: to see like a new breed, a new generation of

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Speaker 1: cfps of people who care about this not from sort

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Speaker 1: of like and they're starting their own firms, their own businesses,

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Speaker 1: their own small businesses as a way, and it just

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Speaker 1: seems like such a healthy approach. I think that the

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Speaker 1: new generation is taking versus kind of some of the

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Speaker 1: ways that the industry used to run. I'm curious, with

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Speaker 1: your dad being a CFP and like incredibly knowledgeable about

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Speaker 1: the topic of insurance, what were money conversations like around

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Speaker 1: your table growing up? If like, were you guys constantly

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Speaker 1: having money conversations? Was it something he kind of left

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Speaker 1: at the office. How was that impacting you as you

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Speaker 1: were growing up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's probably surprising. We actually really didn't

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Speaker 3: have a lot of technical discussions around money. On the

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Speaker 3: other side, though, my dad was very entrepreneurial and a

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Speaker 3: big believer in having control over your income. So that

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Speaker 3: was really what the discussions were centered around, was figure

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Speaker 3: out a way to kind of create your own thing

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Speaker 3: and you know, don't work really hard just to make

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Speaker 3: somebody else rich. So he was really focused on that.

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Speaker 3: As far as technical, you know, financial things. Surprisingly, it's

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Speaker 3: that was more of my mom's side. Actually, one of

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Speaker 3: my flexes is that my grandpa on my mom's side

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Speaker 3: was an early He was an og Jack Bogel and

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Speaker 3: Vanguard fit. Oh yeah, I yeah. Once I realized that,

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Speaker 3: I thought that was the coolest thing ever. But he

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Speaker 3: huge fan of like millionaire next door. So a lot

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Speaker 3: of that, you know, the power of compounding interest and

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Speaker 3: saving your money and becoming that millionaire next door actually

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Speaker 3: came more from my mom's.

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Speaker 4: Side, and then my dad's.

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Speaker 3: Was more of the you know, entrepreneur and pushing us

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Speaker 3: to kind of start.

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Speaker 4: Our own businesses. But influences on both sides.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, good intersection for you to come from. But oh,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, it makes me think of I

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Speaker 2: met a recent friend and he was talking about how

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Speaker 2: his mom grew up in Omaha and he had a

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Speaker 2: big old.

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Speaker 1: Flex which was that?

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Speaker 2: Which is that his mom grew up with the buffet kids.

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Speaker 4: That sounds like a huge flex what.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this should be surprising or not,

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Speaker 2: but he's like, not surprising. I'm into finance as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm like, well, that's that's like the

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Speaker 2: CLIs thing I've learned from somebody in the past like

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Speaker 2: year and a half, being in a new town in

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Speaker 2: a new city. But we're talking about millionaires personal finance advice,

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Speaker 2: Like it's often targeted to the middle class, but high

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Speaker 2: earners they actually need some help saving on taxes and

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Speaker 2: maximizing their wealth building potential as well. Like what is

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Speaker 2: it that made you opt to focus on that group

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Speaker 2: in particular? And I guess too, Maybe it's good to

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Speaker 2: sort of set the stage, like how do you define

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Speaker 2: a high wage earner?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we could put a number to it,

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Speaker 3: or we could personage, you know, top ten percent. Most

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Speaker 3: of my clients, I'll say make at least five hundred thousand,

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Speaker 3: and decent amount of them are approaching seven figures and

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Speaker 3: beyond too. Yeah, so really really high earners. And I

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Speaker 3: always say, you know, making money managing money are two

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Speaker 3: very distinct skill sets. So when I decided to focus

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Speaker 3: on high earners, I really saw distinction and the need

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Speaker 3: for somebody to kind of come in and say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you've done a great job making the money. Now let's

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Speaker 3: figure out how to optimize and manage the money. And

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Speaker 3: then you know, I'm sure it's not surprising to you,

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Speaker 3: but there are a lot of people who make a

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Speaker 3: lot of money and don't have a lot to show

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Speaker 3: for it, haven't actually built a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of wealth with it. So you know, seeing some of

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Speaker 4: those problems.

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Speaker 3: In my first job, you know, I was at a

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Speaker 3: huge firm, was out in Chicago, and we worked with

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Speaker 3: ultra ultra high networth, so at least five million in assets,

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Speaker 3: you know, and we managed over a billion. So I

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Speaker 3: got to see kind of that side of people to

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Speaker 3: where they would come in with a tremendous amount of money.

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Speaker 4: A lot of them went through exits.

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Speaker 3: So we had some tech entrepreneurs that all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden came into a huge sum of money and we're

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Speaker 3: very lost about what to do with it and really

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Speaker 3: didn't have a grasp on some basic personal finance concepts.

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Speaker 3: So seeing that at that extreme, I knew that there

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Speaker 3: was a demand for or a need for financial planners

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Speaker 3: there to kind of help them start to manage this money.

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Speaker 3: And then too, you know, selfishly, I've always liked to

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Speaker 3: help people where I'm kind of in a similar situations.

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Speaker 3: Why I like to help small business owners as well,

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Speaker 3: so being younger but also making you know, a good salary.

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Speaker 3: Went into finance partially for that reason. I noticed that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that there wasn't a lot of content or planners centered

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Speaker 3: around helping a younger generation manage their money. So that

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Speaker 3: was a big influence on me to get into that

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Speaker 3: and fill that need.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also, hey, these are the things you're kind

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Speaker 1: of tackling for yourself, so why not then pass the

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Speaker 1: knowledge and help other people with the stuff you're already

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Speaker 1: kind of working through on your own. Okay, question, what

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Speaker 1: are high earners typically? What are their biggest needs when

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Speaker 1: they come to you for advice? Like, I'm sure it

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Speaker 1: runs across the board, and you mentioned how like even

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Speaker 1: people who have high salaries sometimes they're still spending way

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Speaker 1: too much, right, they're not saving enough, they don't have

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Speaker 1: a high enough savings rate. Are you even broaching the

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Speaker 1: topic of like frugality with people who earn eight hundred

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Speaker 1: k a year, Like, do you have to have those

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Speaker 1: kinds of conversations?

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Speaker 4: You do?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's really interesting. One of the first things

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Speaker 3: I look at is cash flow. It's one of the

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Speaker 3: very first meetings I have, So where's our money going?

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Speaker 3: When I ask the question to people, where's your money going?

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Speaker 3: I never get a response. Nobody has any idea. And

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of high earners too that like think

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Speaker 3: they're doing fairly well. You know, they're putting away, say

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Speaker 3: one hundred k into savings, but if we break that

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Speaker 3: out as a percentage of their income, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: actually really low, could be like ten percent. So taking

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Speaker 3: that and translating it to a percentage for them is

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Speaker 3: really helpful and really eye opening. So that's one of

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Speaker 3: the things that we look at. Cash Flow is really important,

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Speaker 3: and if there is an issue, if they're overspending, then

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Speaker 3: of course we have to start talking about that. I'm

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Speaker 3: a huge fan of reverse budgeting, especially for high earners,

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Speaker 3: as the money comes in, let's put it to work

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Speaker 3: right away and investing, you know, paying the bills and

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Speaker 3: then spending what's left over. Now, that is a process

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Speaker 3: we have to leg into that. We can't just go

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Speaker 3: from saving ten percent to thirty percent. So that's something

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Speaker 3: that we will work through after that. Honestly, taxes, by

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Speaker 3: far the biggest thing that people come to me for,

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Speaker 3: whether they're a high earner or small business owner. Usually

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Speaker 3: it's I get a lot of people coming in after

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Speaker 3: tax time, after they've paid their tax bill and just

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out how they can spend lesson taxes.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting too, and you mentioned this that so

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Speaker 3: much of the personal finance content is geared to kind

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Speaker 3: of middle class, and as a result, I see a

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Speaker 3: lot of really high earners coming in and they're putting

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Speaker 3: a lot of money into like wroth accounts rather than

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Speaker 3: pre tax accounts. So that's a mistake that I usually

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Speaker 3: see for high earners, and so it's about kind of

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Speaker 3: shifting that and then finding some other avenues like charitable giving.

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Speaker 3: There's a way to do that in a tax efficient manner,

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Speaker 3: and really having a big checklist and kind of going

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Speaker 3: through each item to see, can we save on taxes here?

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Speaker 3: Can we optimize taxes anywhere? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I got to think that that takes a big old

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't like paying taxes. I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: somebody who's like breaking in some serious money and just

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Speaker 2: what that feels like. The psychological component of that is, yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, it's painful. And of course, this time

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Speaker 2: of year, as everyone's getting their documents together, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: it's on a lot lot more folks minds.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. I kind of laughed to myself when you

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Speaker 1: said that.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like what you're doing is putting these millionaires

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Speaker 2: on budgets. Do you get much pushback when it comes

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Speaker 2: to that, because I'm like, I was about to say Mint,

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Speaker 2: but you know, Mint, they're running off into the sunset.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes to Whinea, yeah, whiteabb or copilot,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to personal budgets, it seems so quaint

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Speaker 2: and I could I feel like I could see a

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Speaker 2: lot of high earners really pushing back on that. Or

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Speaker 2: are they able to embrace that because they're used to

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Speaker 2: seeing balance sheets and their own profit and laws statements

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Speaker 2: from their business.

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Speaker 3: No, I think they embrace it. I've rarely had somebody

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Speaker 3: say I can't do that. I can't make those changes,

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Speaker 3: because that's what they're coming to me for. You know,

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Speaker 3: they know that there's some thing in there that isn't optimized.

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Speaker 3: They're worried that they're not building wealth in the best

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Speaker 3: way or building enough wealth. So if they come to

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Speaker 3: me and that is something I notice that we're spending

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Speaker 3: a bit too much, they're very receptive of it. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm very careful with how I approach it too.

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Speaker 3: It's not a matter of you're spending you know, seventy

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Speaker 3: percent of your income, We've got to cut that in half.

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Speaker 3: It's more of let's walk through it, see where the

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Speaker 3: money is going, and kind of figure out a plan

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Speaker 3: to how it can shift it more to savings. So

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Speaker 3: and there's several different ways to do it. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I love to show them on a percentage basis where

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Speaker 3: their money is going. They hate to see the percentage

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Speaker 3: that is going to taxes.

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Speaker 4: But when you.

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Speaker 3: Approach it or bring it up in a way, especially

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Speaker 3: with taxes in a tax efficient manner, because even if

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Speaker 3: we're talking about just a taxable brokerage account, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of.

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Speaker 4: Tax excuse me.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of tax advantages within a taxable brokerage account.

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Speaker 3: So if I frame it in that way, in a

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Speaker 3: way that we're building wealth and we're going to be

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Speaker 3: saving on taxes this way, they are much more receptive

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Speaker 3: to it. And then many of them too, have a

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Speaker 3: goal of generational wealth, so it does really bother them

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Speaker 3: if they're not putting enough money away to where the

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Speaker 3: next generation can't carry on this wealth. So it's just

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Speaker 3: about framing it the correct way, making sure that it

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Speaker 3: aligns with their goals. Once they figure out their goals,

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Speaker 3: it's very easy to say, if we want to hit

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Speaker 3: these goals, this is how we kind of have to

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Speaker 3: shift the money. So it's all about lining it up

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Speaker 3: with what they first tell you that they want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably also going to have a mindset shift

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Speaker 1: on just kind of how we think about taxes too.

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Speaker 1: I think oftentimes it's like taxes are the enemy, and

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Speaker 1: in some ways more paying more taxes mean our goal.

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Speaker 2: They're the enemy.

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Speaker 1: Paying more taxes means hey, you're crushing it, right, And

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Speaker 1: so it's like nobody in the right mind would take

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Speaker 1: a two hundred thousand dollars pay cut in order to

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Speaker 1: pay less taxes. And so I guess we have to

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Speaker 1: kind of have that shift too and just realize, okay,

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Speaker 1: cool or taxes might mean more success might mean higher

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Speaker 1: investment returns and just a higher paycheck. Two. So that's

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Speaker 1: one thought. But okay, talk to me too about investment accounts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the WROTH and that is something that Matt

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Speaker 1: and I talked about regularly. For middle class folks. The

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Speaker 1: roth Ira is you know, a gotcha. It's incredible, Like

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Speaker 1: everybody you know making average money should be contributing and

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Speaker 1: hopefully maxing out the roth ira or let's say the

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Speaker 1: WROTH four O one k. But if you if you're

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Speaker 1: making five hundred and fifty k, well, the WROTH four

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Speaker 1: O one k probably doesn't make nearly as much sense

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Speaker 1: as the traditional because you're able to take a big

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Speaker 1: tax break now. And what yeah, what other accounts? How

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Speaker 1: else would you steer high income earners into specific account types.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to say that I steer them

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Speaker 3: away from WROTH because that's not the case at all.

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Speaker 4: I mean a high earner.

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Speaker 3: To tell them that we can put money into an

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Speaker 3: account and we get tax free growth. That is, you know,

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Speaker 3: a huge benefit, something that all higher owners should know about.

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Speaker 3: But it's really it's zooming out a bit and looking

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Speaker 3: lifetime tax rate, not the year tax rate. Everybody's obsessed

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Speaker 3: with how can I bring down taxes this year. What

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Speaker 3: we should do is dooom all the way out and say,

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Speaker 3: how can we pay the least amount you know, legally

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Speaker 3: of course in taxes over our lifetime? And that's where

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Speaker 3: we and of course we can't. The variables that we

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Speaker 3: don't know, like what's your future income? What are future

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Speaker 3: tax rates?

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Speaker 4: Makes this a.

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Speaker 3: Bit complex, But there are some things that we do know,

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Speaker 3: So what is your tax bracket today? And then maybe

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Speaker 3: do we have an estimated guess of how that's going

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Speaker 3: to change. So say somebody's making five hundred K, but

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Speaker 3: they're very young and anticipate making over a million someday,

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Speaker 3: maybe a wroth makes sense for them. It's hard to

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Speaker 3: say who should go into what account until we look

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Speaker 3: at that person's individual life. I will say I'm a

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Speaker 3: big fan of for high earners of this combination of

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Speaker 3: doing pre tax four oh one ks and then a

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Speaker 3: backdoor wroth. So for many of them they can't directly

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Speaker 3: contribute to the there is a way to get around

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Speaker 3: it as long as you don't have money in any

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Speaker 3: IRA accounts. So that combination I love because those people

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Speaker 3: can't make a deductible IRA contribution anyway, so we might

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Speaker 3: as well fill that up with the backdoor wroth. So

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Speaker 3: I love that that combination. We don't completely exclude the wroth,

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Speaker 3: but we bring it in when it makes sense. And

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Speaker 3: that's one of the times where I see it makes

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Speaker 3: the most sense, is complementing a traditional four one K

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Speaker 3: contribution makes.

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Speaker 2: A lot of sense. Okay, I kind of want to

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Speaker 2: walk this back a little bit, Rachel. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 2: a second ago you were talking about generational wealth and

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Speaker 2: how that's oftentimes either a goal for a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks or maybe something that they're having a hard time

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Speaker 2: kind of wrapping their heads around. Do you talk with

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Speaker 2: a lot of clients about that, like more from like

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Speaker 2: a philosophical point of view, like whether or not it

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Speaker 2: makes sense to leave large sums of money to their kids.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about I read a history basically on the

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Speaker 2: on the Vanderbilts and how one of them basically said that,

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Speaker 2: like in HERI died, wealth is like cocaine to ambition. Essentially, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: for the individual, because when you know you've got these

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Speaker 2: literally life supporting sums of money coming your way where

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Speaker 2: you literally don't have to work a day in your life,

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Speaker 2: it changes your outlook. It changes how it is you

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Speaker 2: approach your school, your education, It changes how you approach

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Speaker 2: just everything. And I'm curious if you've had any conversations

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Speaker 2: like that with folks, or if it's more about hearing

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Speaker 2: what their goals are and applying the nuts and bols

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Speaker 2: to get them there. Do you ever kind of dabble

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Speaker 2: in the is this a good thing for us to

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Speaker 2: be doing in the first place?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, And I love those conversations because one of the

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Speaker 3: things I think is a little bit unique about my

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Speaker 3: approach is that I really do like to bring the

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Speaker 3: behavioral side to it. So we have a goal of

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Speaker 3: generational wealth, you know, making my child a millionaire. Things

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Speaker 3: like that I do I love to bring in. Okay,

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Speaker 3: what are other ways we can do that that's not

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Speaker 3: just passing on money? So obviously a great one is

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Speaker 3: to pass on good money habits or a good work ethic.

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Speaker 3: I think those things should be priority number one over

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Speaker 3: passing on money, because your point, most wealth is lost

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Speaker 3: by the second generation when we look at generational wealth,

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Speaker 3: and that's because we're passing on money without passing on

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Speaker 3: the habits that the parents had to use to get

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Speaker 3: that money. So if I had to pick one to

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Speaker 3: pass on to my children, I had to pick one

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Speaker 3: to inherit, it would definitely be the mindset and the habits.

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Speaker 4: Now, one thing I have.

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Speaker 3: To look at quite a bit is sometimes people have

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Speaker 3: this goal and they over prioritize it over themselves. Even

437
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 3: so they may not have built up enough wealth to

438
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 3: someday be work optional quite yet, but they are shoveling

439
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 3: money away into their children's accounts rather than their own.

440
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 3: So there's the problem of you know, we have to

441
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 3: be very careful with how we pass money on to

442
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: our children and to make sure that it doesn't kill

443
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 3: their motivation or their drive. The other problem is we

444
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 3: have to balance it with how we're saving for ourselves.

445
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 3: So I see that problem. It's one of the most

446
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 3: common problems I see is saving for your children before

447
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: you save for yourself.

448
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, filling up those five twenty nine before you've really

449
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: contributed to your own retirement.

450
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 3: Accounts enough, yep, And yeah, we have to look at

451
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 3: it in the context of their children again to really

452
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: help to say, do you think your children want to

453
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 3: be put in a position to where they might I

454
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 3: frame this very carefully, but do we want to put

455
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: your children in a position to where they might have

456
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 3: to help you someday, because that's a very uncomfortable and

457
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: awkward position to be in.

458
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 4: Or do you think your children would prefer.

459
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 3: You to take care of yourself and to be sure

460
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: that you are self sufficient in your later years as well?

461
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 3: So I have to frame that conversation very carefully, but

462
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 3: it is extremely important to make sure that we get

463
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 3: those priorities.

464
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: Sets the old airplane oxygen mask scenario right, yeah, and

465
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: put it on yourself first. Talking about insurance, you mentioned

466
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: your dad was an insurance guru. Rachel, it sounds like

467
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: it passed the genes. You've got the same You've got

468
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: the same mentality and a lot of the the same

469
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: intelligence when it comes to money. What about insurance coverage

470
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: for high income earners? Like being underinsured can be insanely costly,

471
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: and so what insurance mistakes are high earners often making.

472
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 3: This is another one of the biggest mistakes I see

473
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 3: is that they are really under insured. So we can

474
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 3: look at life, disability.

475
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 4: Umbrella insurance.

476
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 3: Those are you know, the big three when it comes

477
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 3: to protecting wealth, protecting your family.

478
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 4: So life insurance.

479
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: A lot of high earners, you know, accept what they

480
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 3: get through their work and then don't really think about

481
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 3: it after that. And you know, you get a little

482
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 3: bit through your work, but usually not enough, especially if

483
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: you're a high earner. So life insurance is really important

484
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: to look at to make sure that if something were

485
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: to happen to you, that your family is taken care of.

486
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: And I'm a huge fan too of getting life insurance

487
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 3: on both spouses, even if one is just you know,

488
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 3: the homemaker, not bringing an income, because what people often

489
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 3: don't consider is that if something were to happen to

490
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 3: that spouse, now we have a lot more expensive is

491
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: that that spouse was taken care of like homemaking, you know,

492
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: cleaning and taking care of the children, and all of

493
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 3: these expenses are now going to come up if something

494
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 3: were to happen to that spouse. So people always think

495
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 3: about protecting the spouse that is bringing in the income,

496
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 3: but often don't think about the spouse that is taking

497
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 3: care of a lot of expenses by being a homemaker.

498
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 3: So that is a big mistake that I see is

499
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 3: that we if we have one spouse insured, we don't

500
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: have the other one insured. And the disability insurance, I

501
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 3: think this one does not get enough attention. Life insurance

502
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 3: gets all the attention, and we can talk about why

503
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: big commissions.

504
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 4: But disability.

505
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 3: You know, you're far more likely to be disabled than

506
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: you are to die prematurely. So disability is what's going

507
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 3: to come in and pay you if if something, if

508
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: you were to become disabled and not work anymore, not

509
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: be able to work anymore. And the thing with disability

510
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 3: you have to be really careful of is the wording

511
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 3: of disability. There's own occupation, which is the premium wording,

512
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 3: and disability just means if you were to be disabled

513
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: and you can no longer work in the job that

514
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: you were just in, then you'll get paid out. So

515
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: a lot of doctors need disability insurance because what could

516
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: happen if you have a lower form of wording with

517
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: disability insurance is you become disabled and the insurance company

518
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: looks at it and says, well, you could work the

519
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: front desk even if it's one fourth of your income

520
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: or less, and they won't pay out because it's a

521
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 3: poor definition of disability. So that is the one I

522
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 3: really I don't see enough people having adequate coverage. And

523
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 3: then umbrella insurance. This is one that's really important for

524
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 3: high earners or anybody with the significant net worth. So

525
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 3: umbrella insurance is the insurance that sits on top of

526
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: auto and home. So auto and home has some coverage limits,

527
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: and if something were to happen, if you were to

528
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: get sued, or your child were to get in trouble,

529
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: or your dog were to run out and bite somebody,

530
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: your coverage with auto and home might not be an

531
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: enough to cover, you know, beyond what somebody might sue

532
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: you for, and then they can start going for your assets.

533
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: Umbrella is what sits on top of that and covers

534
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: the rest of your assets in case you were to

535
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: get into a really bad situation like that. So I

536
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: rarely see anybody have umbrella insurance. And you can get

537
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 3: a decent amount of coverage for for pretty cheap. So

538
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: I always look at those. Those are the big three

539
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: for high owners.

540
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: I love it, yeah, And it's the rare individual who

541
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: is over ensured when it comes to some of these

542
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: different to see that those are the financial.

543
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: Have like dialed it in.

544
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: It's just like, buddy, why do you even have this?

545
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: And because they're got things a little too buttoned up. Honestly,

546
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: that kind of makes me think of the Fire Movement,

547
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: where folks have kind of gotten like where the cart's

548
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: gotten ahead.

549
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: Of the horse a little bit.

550
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: And so we actually we want to talk to you

551
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: a little bit about that that in addition to maybe

552
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: entrepreneurship will get to all of that. Right after this,

553
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 2: while we're back, we're still talking with Rachel Camp, specifically

554
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: talking about how high earners can make more progress with

555
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: their finances. Rachel, I know, I don't know if you

556
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: would call yourself like, oh, a Fire adherent or if

557
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: you're just kind of, like, you know, tangentially related to

558
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: the movement. I don't know where exactly you fit. But

559
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: you've talked about kind of delayed gratification and how important

560
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: that is. But then you also recently wrote about the

561
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: downsides of delayed gratification, which is not something the Fire

562
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: Moment movement is prone to really admitting.

563
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: It seems like this is something that you're wrestling with

564
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: right now. Though as we speak, like the balances finding

565
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: that balance first going to extremes. What are your thoughts

566
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: and where do you kind of land right now?

567
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can tell you a little bit of

568
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 3: my history with the Fire Movement. I actually became really

569
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: obsessed with it, I guess you could say.

570
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 4: With my first job.

571
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 3: Didn't love the first job and had a little bit

572
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 3: of just an obsession with money and the way. I

573
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 3: viewed it as a way that I could have control

574
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: and freedom over my life. And Fire Movement kind of

575
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 3: found me or I found it at that perfect time

576
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: where I was looking for a way to regain control

577
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: of my life and to potentially look at, you know,

578
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: shifting out of this job. So I found the Fire

579
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 3: Movement and honestly just fell in love with it. I loved,

580
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: you know, your money or your life. I love all

581
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 3: the people in the Fire Movement and I still have.

582
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: I still appreciate it for what it's done, but I

583
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: will I will say I was at one end of

584
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: the spectrum there and now I've kind of come back

585
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 3: to the middle to more of a balance. My issue

586
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 3: with the Fire Movement is what you mentioned, which is

587
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: I think it delays too much gratification, and it became

588
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: more and more apparent to me when I started working

589
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: with clients actually and seeing that they had some of

590
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: these goals like I want to take a trip with

591
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 3: my family, or I want to move to a different

592
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 3: city I don't love the city, and they were delaying

593
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: all of it in the name of building up their

594
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: net worth. And being able to view them as an

595
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 3: outsider really made me realize that we don't always we're

596
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: not always really logical with money. Many of these people

597
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 3: could have taken that vacation with no impact to their

598
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 3: fire or minimal impact to their financial freedom number. So

599
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: that really made me start to reflect on my own life.

600
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: And then of course the book Die Was Zero came

601
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: around and made a huge impact in the financial independence community.

602
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 3: I felt like that book was written for us, like.

603
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Kind of like a classic cold water to the face

604
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: to the face, you know, just like, hey, what are

605
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: you guys doing?

606
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

607
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

608
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: Bill Perkins came around and said, we're all being a

609
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: little insane, So that was helpful. But he made some

610
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: just great points, which is while our you know, our

611
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: accounts are and our investments are growing and compounding, our

612
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: health and energy are doing the opposite. So there are

613
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: only things that we can do at certain points of

614
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: our life. And one of it might be because our health

615
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: and energy are going to decline, but it also might

616
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: be because, you know, maybe you're aren't going to be

617
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 3: this young forever and they aren't. They're going to grow up.

618
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: So those family vacations that you really want to take

619
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: it may be the only time you can do it.

620
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: Taking your kids to Disney World at twenty two is

621
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: it very different than taking them at like, you know, eight.

622
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they'd be into it two quite

623
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: as much.

624
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: So, yeah, I mean things like that that you have

625
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 4: to think about. And I was. I realized that.

626
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: I was putting off a lot of you know, vacations

627
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: like that myself. I've always wanted to backpack Southeast Asia,

628
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: and I've continued to put it off, you know, also

629
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: building the business. That was a big reason for it too.

630
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: But finally, you know, reading the book and just doing

631
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: a lot of reflecting on delayed gratification, I realized, I

632
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: probably am not going to want to do this when

633
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: I'm sixty years old, So let's bring it to you know,

634
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 3: the front, make it a priority now, and if it

635
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: hurts my savings rate a little bit, I'm fine with that.

636
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: I have come to terms with a lot of the

637
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: money that I'm saving and investing right now probably will

638
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: never be spent by me. So again we look at

639
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 3: the extremes. We have this obsession with oversaving and then

640
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: this obsession with spending everything that we've saved. I kind

641
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: of want to land in the middle again and not

642
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: have any obsession with money. If I leave behind millions

643
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: of dollars, I've come to terms that that is fine.

644
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: You might go to charities, might go to my future children,

645
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: but I don't really care either to die with zero.

646
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: So I've landed in the middle of kind of both

647
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: of these extremes.

648
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: I like it, and I like what you said there too.

649
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: About he says something along the lines of realizing that

650
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: there is there are only experiences, that there's only things

651
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: that you can do today, Like there's a limited window

652
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: of time to take advantage of some of these things.

653
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: And what's crazy is that we do that all the

654
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: time when it comes to money, Like it makes me

655
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: automatically think of a four to win K match with

656
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: an employer, and it's like, what we would say is

657
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: that if you don't take advantage of the match, you're

658
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: being an idiot like that, money is not going to

659
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: be there tomorrow, so you have to pounce on this opportunity.

660
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: That is what we say, But we don't.

661
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: Think in those same terms when it comes to life experience,

662
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: and especially I mean you mentioned in the kids like

663
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: that totally hits home having four kids, and that has

664
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: allowed my wife and I to feel a little more

665
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: empowered to like we're in a smaller home and we're like,

666
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: should we renovate? It seems kind of ridiculous to add

667
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: add onto the house, but we're like, well, now's the

668
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: time because our oldest is ten. Yeah, in six years,

669
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: she's not going to really want to hang out with

670
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: us anymore. So maybe we should go ahead and make

671
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: this thing happen and I can continue to work. But

672
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: as far as the kids being at home, like there,

673
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: like you said, there's a there's a closing window of

674
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: time that you have to keep in mind.

675
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we talk to bring it back

676
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: to to generational wealth. Another thing that he talks about

677
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: quite a bit and Die with zero is how people

678
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: receive an inheritance at not an opportune point in their life.

679
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: So usually once they're much older, fifties sixties and really

680
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: don't need the money at that point. So he makes

681
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: a really compelling argument that we should be giving or

682
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: helping our children when they most need the money, so

683
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 3: maybe for their a down payment on their first home,

684
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: or for student loans.

685
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 4: Something like that.

686
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: I do like the idea of that, and also donating

687
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: during your lifetime to to be able to see your

688
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: money be put to work. So there's something to giving

689
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: your money away during your lifetime that I think can

690
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 3: be really satisfying rather than just waiting to pass it on,

691
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: you know, as an inheritance.

692
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: You're not maximizing the dollars and cents allow Warren Buffett

693
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: giving it away, you know, after your death, but you

694
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: are maximizing some of the joy that you can receive

695
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: from seeing those dollars. And I think you can have

696
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of both again some balance the donor

697
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: advice fund, stocking that up a little bit and then

698
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: letting that money grow, but also giving it giving it

699
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: away at like while you're while you're alive, while you're

700
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: still living. Okay, you've talked about building your business, and

701
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: you know you've done a really good job with that.

702
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: Owning a business can be beneficial too from a tax perspective.

703
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: So can you talk maybe about some of the low

704
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: hanging fruit that self employed folks can and should be taking,

705
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, taking advantage of.

706
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously a big one is

707
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: being able to deduct business expenses that you could not

708
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: deduct as a W two employee. So home office not

709
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 3: something you can deduct as a W two employee anymore,

710
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: even a portion of your cell phone. All these things

711
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: that before there is no deduction for you now get

712
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 3: to deduct as a business expense as long as it

713
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: is an ordinary and necessary business expense. You know, again,

714
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 3: we want to pay the least amount of tax possible,

715
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: but always make sure that it's legal and above board

716
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: and that we're tracking everything too. Now, after the business expenses,

717
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: there's entity selection, which is really important. It's not going

718
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 3: to be as important in the beginning, but once you

719
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: start bringing in a serious amount of revenue, you might

720
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: look at something like electing s Corp. Which can help

721
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: with deducting self employment tax. So that's something that was

722
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: a milestone in my business that was really excited for

723
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: when I was able to electes Corp and receive tax

724
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: benefits from that and then two my favorite probably is

725
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: self employed retirement accounts. So the awesome thing about a

726
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 3: self employed retire account when we look at a solo

727
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: for oh one k, for example, is now you get

728
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: to contribute as the employee and the employer. So if

729
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: you're putting away a lot of money for retirement, or

730
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: we just want to receive, you know, a big tax deduction,

731
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 3: a solo for oh one k is a great way

732
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: to do that because you get.

733
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 4: The employee contribution limits, but now.

734
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 3: You get to add in the employer contribution limits as

735
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: well and put away you know, twenty twenty four. I

736
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 3: think the total limit is sixty nine thousand, as long

737
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 3: as you have the revenue for it and the cash flow,

738
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: of course, but it is a way too for a

739
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 3: lot of these high owners who are also business owners

740
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: to receive a big tax deduction and put away a

741
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: ton of money into retirement accounts.

742
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: That's right.

743
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you've talked about how one of the reasons

744
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: you started your own business. Not only does it make

745
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: sense financially from a tax deduction standpoint, but again kind

746
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: of going back to kind of the fire mindset, can

747
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: you talk about some of the other reasons that you

748
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: to start your own business, because like, one of the

749
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 2: things you encourage your listeners and your readers to do

750
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: is to think about their ideal day and talk about

751
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: autonomy and being able to kind of run the shows

752
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: what your life looks like.

753
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mentioned, you know, my first job, and

754
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: the thing that was challenging for me was a big

755
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: thing that was challenging was my work environment. And I

756
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 3: was in a room with five other guys. TV was

757
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: on and it was so hard for me to be focused.

758
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, a lot of my

759
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 3: performance was measured by you know, hours in a chair,

760
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 3: so was she there eight to six rather than output

761
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: I So all of that I really was not the

762
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: biggest fan of when it comes to translating how I

763
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 3: was doing with my work. So I always wanted to

764
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: be able to control my work environment, be able to

765
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 3: control the hours that I want to work. You know,

766
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: ironically I work way more now as a business owner,

767
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: but it doesn't feel like quite as much because if

768
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 3: I need a break at noon to go work out

769
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: or go take a walk, I can do that and

770
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: I can work later, and those things are so so

771
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: important to me. I think if There's one theme that

772
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: I can point out when it comes to me and

773
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 3: my view of money is control and control over my

774
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: schedule and my time. And I know too when they

775
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 3: look at when they research human happiness and what contributes

776
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: to that, a big component of it is do we

777
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: have control over our time and our schedule. And so

778
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: when it came to starting my own business, that was

779
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: really important to me. But also in the wealth management industry,

780
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: there's a lot of you know, traditional financial advisors. Like

781
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: I said, it tends to skew at an older age,

782
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: and I just was excited about kind of a newer

783
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: and different way of doing things, one of that being

784
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: a big emphasis on financial planning rather than investment management

785
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 3: or insurance sales. I realized, you know, I could find

786
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: a firm that does that, but there weren't that many

787
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: out there, and the firm that I wanted to build,

788
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 3: the idea I had behind it is to create a

789
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 3: firm in a way where it's how.

790
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: I would want somebody to help me with my money.

791
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: And the only way I could really do that is

792
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 3: to completely start my own thing, to have control over

793
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: the process, to have control over how we operate. I

794
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 3: knew the best way to accomplish that was to do

795
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 3: it on my own, so that was a big motivator

796
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 3: as well.

797
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think of that as being the

798
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: number one benefit of being self employed is kind of

799
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: being able to steer the ship. And so, yeah, the

800
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: time flexibility is great, but the ability to kind of

801
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: eat what you kill and make more money is great too.

802
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: But I think more than anything, it's kind of the

803
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: creative oversight that you have and no one else can

804
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: be like, no, don't do that. I guess Matt can

805
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: if it really sucks, if my ideas for your omnie, yeah, yeah,

806
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: he's like a sorry, dude, that's not going to work.

807
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: But for the most part, like yeah, it's it's a

808
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: decision between the two of us and and nobody else

809
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: has the oversight. And in all my previous jobs, it

810
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: was somebody saying, yeah, nah, maybe six months down the

811
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: road or actually that idea, we're not We're not driving

812
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: with that, so let's now we're going to put that

813
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: on the back burner or the never burner. I'm like,

814
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: oh man, that's it's so nice to be able to

815
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: kind of have a lot more oversight over that. I'm

816
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: curious to hear too your thoughts on debt, Rachel, because

817
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: we haven't really talked about that. How do you help

818
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: clients think through whether or not they should prioritize eradicating

819
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: debt from their life verse accomplishing other financial goals. So

820
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: we talked about how, okay, cool, Maybe you actually don't

821
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: need to be or some of your clients need to

822
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: be investing a lot more, others might be overdoing it.

823
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: But what about debt payoff? How does that factor in?

824
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: And how how do you have those discussions?

825
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, debt is an interesting one in

826
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: personal finance. There's a lot of really strong opinions on it.

827
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: And again, I one of my biggest pet peeves is

828
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 3: blanket advice in the personal finance world. So I don't

829
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 3: believe in old debt is bad, and I don't also

830
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 3: believe in overleveraging yourself. So it's again a balance and

831
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 3: it always depends. But when it comes to debt, I

832
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 3: never ignore the behavioral side of it. I always ask

833
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 3: people what their opinion of debt is and how they

834
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: feel about having debt if they do have it, and

835
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 3: there are a lot of them that just hate it

836
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: and it can be really low interest rate debt which

837
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 3: could be three or four percent, and it still bothers

838
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: them to have that outstanding debt. So I believe every

839
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: decision we should start with the numbers and then we

840
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: should look at the behavioral side. So when it comes

841
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: to paying down debt, you know, of course I'll run

842
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 3: the numbers on this is what it looks like if

843
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: we pay down the debt versus invest the money, and here's,

844
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: to the best of our abilities, how we can translate

845
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: that to a dollar amount or an opportunity cost. And

846
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: so they'll look at that, and then I'll say, but

847
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: I don't want to ignore the behavioral side of this.

848
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: And if it really bothers you to have this debt

849
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: then and we're still funding all of your other financial

850
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: goals and those are on track, then I'm fine with

851
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: going ahead and paying it down. Now, if we have

852
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 3: a discussion where we're struggling with financial goals, we're struggling

853
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: with not investing enough, and they want to pay down

854
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: their two percent debt, you know that is something that

855
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 3: I might push a little bit more to the investing side.

856
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: I certainly don't want to ignore the numbers, and I

857
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: do believe people hire me to really optimize the numbers

858
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 3: for them and optimize building wealth. So I'm not afraid

859
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: to push people in one direction, but never at the

860
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: expense of their peace of mind. I never want anybody

861
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: to stay awake at night thinking about something if we

862
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: can easily fix it. So, like everything, it's a balance,

863
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 3: but with debt, I consider both components to it and

864
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 3: we just go from there.

865
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: Nice.

866
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: Okay, So, speaking of bespoke a financial advice, we're going

867
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: to talk about how you recommend for folks to approach

868
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: hiring a financial advisor, and we'll get it's a that

869
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: and more with Rachel Camp.

870
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: Right after this our we're back. We're still talking with

871
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: Rachel Camp, and Rachel I want to talk about financial advisors.

872
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: Let's get a little meta. We're talking to a financial

873
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: advisor about financial advisors. Obviously you're going to say, don't

874
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: ever hire a financial advisor. They're terrible. No, that's a default,

875
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: right default answer. Well, you don't seem like the kind

876
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: of person who's going to have this hard pitch sales

877
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: pitch for someone who comes to you like here's why

878
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: you need to hire me right now. But like, yeah,

879
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: what do you tell folks who are thinking of hiring you,

880
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: And what would you tell somebody out there who is

881
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: thinking hiring a financial professional might make sense at this

882
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: point in my financial journey, but I'm just not sure.

883
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: How do I know if I'm ready?

884
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, in another way that I built my

885
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 3: business was I never wanted to have to do a

886
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 3: hard sell. I only wanted to be able to help

887
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 3: people who I really thought I could help. So sometimes

888
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 3: I have people come in and they're kind of taking

889
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 3: care of the big things. There's not a way that

890
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 3: I can see that can really optimize, and so we'll

891
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 3: decide not to work together. So I'm not afraid to,

892
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 3: you know, turn people away who I don't think need

893
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: a financial advisor yet.

894
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: So you might just look at their numbers, look at

895
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: their and say you're doing a great job. Go on

896
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: your marry way, keep it up.

897
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, unless there is something you know that they really

898
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: want me to help with, like a behavioral side to

899
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 3: it or starting a business. But yeah, I'm not afraid

900
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: to turn people away and say I or say I

901
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 3: don't think I'm the best person to help you. But

902
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: maybe there's somebody else that specializes more and what you're

903
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: looking for that can help you. I'll be honest. Most

904
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 3: of the time it's younger people who are kind of

905
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: just starting out, and that I say, I usually recommend

906
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: a book to them or some other resources, but I

907
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 3: don't think they're at the stage quite yet where they

908
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 3: need a financial advisor.

909
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: Is that because more of their money should be going

910
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: towards investments than paying for the advice and the help

911
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: of an advisor.

912
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't ever want somebody to pay me and

913
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: I can't provide more value than what they're paying me. Now.

914
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: I can't guarantee that, of course, but if I can't

915
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: see a way that I can provide multiples of what

916
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: you're paying me, then I don't really want to take

917
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 3: you on. That'd be stressful for me, and of course

918
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 3: it wouldn't be helpful for you. So a lot of

919
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 3: people when they're just starting out, it's really hard to

920
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: provide that value because it's just a matter of you

921
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 3: just got to put more money away, get more money invested.

922
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: And once they've reached that, or they've reached a certain

923
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 3: point where their lives are just a bit more complex,

924
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 3: like having a family, is a great time to look

925
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: more seriously into some financial planning. Starting a business is

926
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: a really important time to do that too. And then too,

927
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: you know, say somebody is a little bit older and

928
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: they haven't put enough money away and they really need

929
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: help with figuring out how to carve that out. That's

930
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 3: something I can help with as well. But for somebody

931
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 3: who's on the fence or who's thinking, you know, I

932
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: feel like I've got a good handle on things, I'm

933
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: just not sure I'm optimized. I hear that all the time.

934
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: I offer one time financial plans, and I have a

935
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: lot of peers who offer them to who are great,

936
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: And for a lot of people that makes a lot

937
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: of sense for them to kind of come in, pay

938
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: a financial advisor a one time fee, and the plan,

939
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: you know, barring anything really drastically changing in their life,

940
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: should hold up for a good five to.

941
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: Ten plus years.

942
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 3: So that is something if I meet with somebody and

943
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: I think, you know, ongoing, I don't know if I

944
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 3: can provide a lot of value, but I do think

945
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: we could set up a good financial plan for you

946
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: and you'd get a lot of value from that. So

947
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 3: a lot of people on the fence, I usually recommend

948
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 3: they a they meet with a financial advisor. Most people

949
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 3: have complimentary consultations and they shouldn't be sales y. If

950
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: they are salesy, then you can just leave. But after that,

951
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: you know, you can always start with a financial plan

952
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: and see if you think it's really helpful to you.

953
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: Nice. Okay, so you just said that these financial plans

954
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 2: should be good for like maybe five to ten years,

955
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: which is a timeframe. That just made me think of something.

956
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: So let's talk about fund selection for your clients. Like,

957
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: we know that you're a fan of low cost funds

958
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: passive investing, but how do you help clients think through

959
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: which funds they shouldn't and specifically when their asset allocation

960
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: should change. Because you get to a certain point and

961
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: you're starting to look ahead, I don't know, I would

962
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: like to hear your inswer here. Maybe five maybe ten

963
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: years and as folks are thinking about I might be

964
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: needing to access some of those funds. What's your uh yeah,

965
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: what's your time frame there?

966
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 4: Yeah?

967
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: So shifting more into the fixed income side again, you know,

968
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 3: I hate to say it, as always it depends, but

969
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 3: with a client, we're going to look at first income streams.

970
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: So I have a lot of clients where they might

971
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: have some real estate investments or just some income coming

972
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 3: in from other sources that even if they were to

973
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: fully retire, they would continue to get that income. So

974
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 3: we look at that first because sometimes you'll have clients

975
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 3: and I used to work with a lot of retirees

976
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: and one of the issues I saw is they had

977
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 3: pensions coming in in Social Security, and all of those

978
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: income streams were more than covering for their living expenses,

979
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: and you know, they were all fixed income streams, so

980
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: they could actually afford to be a bit more aggressive,

981
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: and they were a bit too conservative when you considered

982
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: these fixed income streams coming in. So that's something that

983
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: I look at. But let's say somebody has no other

984
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: income streams, then really you know, a good rule of

985
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: thumb is as you get within ten years of retirement,

986
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: we start fifteen to ten years, we start to shift

987
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 3: more into fixed income. And once you get to the

988
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 3: point where you're really close to retirement, we might be

989
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 3: looking out a seventy thirty portfolio, and then say you're

990
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 3: ten years into retirement or fifteen years into retirement, then

991
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: we're going to we might start to shift to sixty forty. Again,

992
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: very basic rules of thumb what's more important here is

993
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: what do you need from the portfolio? So if you

994
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 3: have a really big portfolio, but you're not spending that

995
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: much or you're not requiring that much, then we can

996
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: actually put a significant amount of money, leave it in

997
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 3: the equity side. As long as we've got a good

998
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: ten years in the fixed income side for your income, you.

999
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 4: Know, we should be good.

1000
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 3: So I like to start with that is what's the

1001
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: income that we're going to need. But if you're just

1002
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: relying on rules of thumb seventy thirties, where I see

1003
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 3: most people enter into retirement.

1004
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: With, okay, So you talk to me about just kind

1005
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: of the services financial advisors offer. Now, it seems like

1006
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: those offerings have changed in the past fifteen or twenty

1007
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: years that the financial advisors almost in my mind, resemble

1008
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: more like life coaches with a ridiculous amount of knowledge

1009
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: about money and investments and tax planning and so. But

1010
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: I feel like at times in the past, the financial

1011
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: advisor's role was kind of like I'll handle your investments

1012
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: and you've got to figure out the rest. But that

1013
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: there's just a lot more that the modern financial advisor

1014
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: can offer to a person. Do you think that's true.

1015
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So I think the modern financial advisor kind

1016
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 3: of came from this need for tax planning.

1017
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 4: First.

1018
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 3: So one of the biggest complaints that I see is

1019
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 3: somebody will come to me and say, my CPA doesn't

1020
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: help me at all with tax planning, and by the

1021
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: time I meet with them, you know, all the things

1022
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: that I could have done, it's too late to do.

1023
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 4: Now.

1024
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 3: Most CPAs or accountants are just going to file your

1025
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 3: taxes unless you ask them for something else, and if

1026
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 3: they offer that, that is primarily what they do.

1027
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 4: So financial plan has.

1028
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 3: Really stepped in to kind of fill that role to

1029
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: be there with you throughout the year to take a

1030
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: proactive approach to tax planning. And when it comes to

1031
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: adding value, that's where I see some of the most

1032
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: value added. And then too we talk about risk management

1033
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: or insurance. There is a lot of risk that people

1034
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: are exposed to that they're not aware of. So a

1035
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 3: good financial planner should be looking at your risk management, insurance,

1036
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 3: but also cash you know, insurance for your business, all

1037
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 3: these different things that you might not be thinking of.

1038
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: Cash Flow planning of course, figuring out where you're mind

1039
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 3: is going and how to optimize it. Retirement planning. That's

1040
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: what financial advisors should have always been doing, but it's

1041
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: shockingly more of a thing now. You know, education funny,

1042
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 3: any financial goals planning, but a good financial planner. And

1043
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 3: what I think we're doing now is taking just a

1044
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: much more holistic approach to it. You know, when I

1045
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: first started out, what we asked for were your investment

1046
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 3: statements from a client. Now the document checklist is really long.

1047
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: It's tax returns, it's employee benefits handbooks, it's paced ups,

1048
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: it's auto and home insurance policies, it is Yeah, it's everything.

1049
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: So really it's they should be the CFO of your life. Yeah,

1050
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: that's the approach I like to see. And yeah, I

1051
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 3: have so many peers and people who are kind of

1052
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 3: coming through the next generation that see this shift, and

1053
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: it's really fulfilling work too. I was out to dinner

1054
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: with somebody who is in more of a he's really young,

1055
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 3: he's younger than me, and he's in a traditional advisor

1056
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 3: role still, and he was talking about how he wanted

1057
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 3: to shift more to you know, what I'm doing and

1058
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 3: what some other people are doing, and I told him

1059
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 3: it's once you've had the experience of being in the

1060
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 3: role where you're primarily an investment manager and now you

1061
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: shift over to a financial planner and being a CFO

1062
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: of somebody's life.

1063
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 4: It is ten.

1064
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 3: Times more fulfilling because you feel so good about the

1065
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 3: work you're doing and you can really see all the

1066
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 3: value you're adding, which investment management, it's a little hard

1067
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: to see the value there.

1068
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: So just the number going up, you're like helping families

1069
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: achieve the goals they want. I get that. Yeah, the

1070
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: smile on their face.

1071
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: More of an impact that you're going to be able

1072
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: to have knowing that that you are involved in all

1073
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 2: these other areas of life and that you know that

1074
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: they're helping them to achieve that. It goes back to

1075
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: like we're saying at the beginning that hey, maybe you

1076
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: need to show up with your budget as well, be gus,

1077
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: let's talk about your spending. Yeah, but Rachel, I mean,

1078
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 2: I think it's an awesome job that you're doing and

1079
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: specifically how you're approaching financial planning with your specific clients.

1080
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, where can folks learn more about you? And

1081
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: want you share a little bit too about your new

1082
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 2: project the new podcast.

1083
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just launched Becoming Work Optional. With my co

1084
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 3: host Matt Garrisik. So we have right now episodes coming

1085
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: out every other week. We're kind of easy into it.

1086
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 3: We both have businesses that we run as well. But

1087
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: you mentioned Twitter. I'm most active on Twitter, Camp Underscore Wealth.

1088
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: I do have an Instagram, not very active there, Camp Wealth,

1089
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: but my newsletter. I love my newsletter as well, which

1090
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 3: you can sign up on my website, Rachelcampwealth dot com.

1091
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: Awesome, Rachel, thank you for joining us. We'll pull links

1092
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: all those all those assets in our show notes and yeah,

1093
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: I hope to have you on the podcast again one

1094
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: of these days in the future.

1095
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

1096
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: All Right. That was Rachel Camp of Camp Wealth fame

1097
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 2: Like honestly, I love.

1098
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: She's like a Taylor Swift of wealth management.

1099
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: I love how she's approaching personal finance with the client's

1100
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 2: Oh I think I've got my big take so I'll.

1101
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: Pitch it to you. What's your big takeaway?

1102
00:51:58,200 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: Because I almost almost.

1103
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: Ran away with it. You could have if you wanted to.

1104
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to be selfish. You first, Oh, well,

1105
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: thank you age before I don't know, so I think

1106
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: my biggest segaway or there was a lot of good

1107
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: stuff in this episode, especially if you are a high

1108
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: oncome earner. I think there's a lot of like practical

1109
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: takeaway knowledge. But when she mentioned that the latte that

1110
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: she gets, however many times a week, is an investment,

1111
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: I initially bristle against that because just ask my mom,

1112
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: like every time she's like, my mom is way too

1113
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: many times called an inanimate object or consumable an investment.

1114
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,919
Speaker 1: And I look at her, I give her the stink

1115
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what are you thinking about an investment?

1116
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: Don't call it an investment, mom. And so when Rachel

1117
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: called the latte an investment, I was like, yeah, come on,

1118
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not.

1119
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 2: I had a muture mic Joel's like shum.

1120
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: And so I was initially bristling, But then when she

1121
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: ran the numbers and guess what, it is true, Like,

1122
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: the more I think about it, you can consider that.

1123
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: I think an investment or at least a discounted way

1124
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: to work somewhere. I guess, substitute, you got to get

1125
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: out of your home office sometimes, right, And so yeah,

1126
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: I guess I need to be less judgmental. I realize that.

1127
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: But also I think, yeah, yeah, I guess you can

1128
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: call that an investment and I'm not. So that's my

1129
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: big takeaway. I'm growing as a person that you're.

1130
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: Just less judging of other people around you and what

1131
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 2: it is that they call investments and spend money.

1132
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: On slowly, but sure, look I'm getting there, all right.

1133
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: My big takeaway is going to be when she was talking,

1134
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: I can't remember what we asked her, but what she

1135
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: said in response was that one of the one of

1136
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: her biggest pet peeves is blanket advice. And it's so

1137
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: true because there are I think it's when we're talking

1138
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: about debt, because that's one of those one of the

1139
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: topics that people are always like, oh, you can never

1140
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: have debt, or oh you have to always use debt

1141
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: to its fullest advantage, to your fullest advantage if you're

1142
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 2: trying to optimize. But so much of it comes down

1143
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: to the individual. What's going on in their personal finance situation,

1144
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 2: what's going to weigh on their mental health, like, what

1145
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,479
Speaker 2: is going to speak to them as a person. And

1146
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 2: this is going to be a plug for folks to

1147
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 2: send in listener voice and memos to for ask kind

1148
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 2: of money episodes because what I realized when she was

1149
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 2: saying all of that.

1150
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: Was that, man, that is exactly what we're.

1151
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: Able to do when it comes to answering listen questions

1152
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 2: on our Monday episodes because we're able to take into

1153
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 2: account some of those additional details, some of that nuance

1154
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: that provides, well, shoot, had you said this, we probably

1155
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 2: would have recommended to go ahead and pay it off.

1156
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: But you you said all these other things, and with

1157
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: that knowledge, with that in mind, we're going to say

1158
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: keep it around. In this example, debt is the is

1159
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: the topic.

1160
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: But I agree there's a there's a whole lot of

1161
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: people in the personal finance advice space and they treat

1162
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: everything like a hammer. It's like it's always debt is dumb,

1163
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: or it's always invest sixty percent of your income whatever

1164
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean that that would be the fire crowd or whatever.

1165
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 2: Or you're an idiot and not consider using credit cards

1166
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: to take advantage of the of the perks and the

1167
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 2: benefits and the op It's it's personalized, and.

1168
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: So you and I I know it's not quite as

1169
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: doesn't make the headlines in the same way the shades

1170
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: of gray sorts of things that we the kinds of

1171
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: things that we weigdhe into here on this podcast on

1172
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: a regular basis. But that's what we try to do

1173
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: is kind of take all and really kind of even

1174
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: when we're spouting something that we think is true, we

1175
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: try to give the caveats every time because it's not

1176
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: always true for every person at all times, and we

1177
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: do our best to kind of cover that game. And

1178
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 1: Rachel does that too. She the thing that's ever answered

1179
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: work couched like that, And that's just the sign of

1180
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: someone who's who's smart and has lived some life and

1181
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: has encountered a bunch of people who have different sorts

1182
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 1: of financial situations going on.

1183
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: You know, man, all right, our beer was all citra everything.

1184
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: This was a beer by other Half. This was another

1185
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: one that you picked up while you're out there in

1186
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: New York?

1187
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 4: Is that right?

1188
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 2: What your thoughts?

1189
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: Do you diget? This one was juicy, not over the top,

1190
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: a nice approachable ipa but like but still heavy in

1191
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: that New England juicy realm so good. I loved it.

1192
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: I was just bummed to that this is one that

1193
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: we shared as opposed to us each having one.

1194
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: But it was bright, it was citrus case couldn't hold anymore, man,

1195
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: I get it. Super citrusy Bright had all this like

1196
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't bitter at all. If you are turned off

1197
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: by the.

1198
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 2: Bitter ipa like those West Coast IPAs, you got to

1199
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: look into some of those New England.

1200
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: I pas, specifically Other Half.

1201
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: They make some incredible ones that drinks more like orange

1202
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: as I was gonn say adult OJ So good glad

1203
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: you know I did get to enjoy one of these today, buddy,

1204
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 2: But I think that's gonna be it for this episode.

1205
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: We'll make sure to have links up at our show

1206
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: notes at how to money dot com, but Buddy, that's

1207
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: gonna be it until next time.

1208
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,