Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 3: I met Ludlow in San Francisco. Caroline hides off today.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: Coming up.
Speaker 3: Netflix makes a big push into live events with a
Speaker 3: five billion dollar deal for WWE Raw. Full details ahead
Speaker 3: and we stick with Netflix pushing ahead to results after
Speaker 3: the bell and get a read on what to expect
Speaker 3: from tech earnings this season. Plus Samsung exploring the development
Speaker 3: of a non invasive blood sugar monitor to compete with
Speaker 3: tech giants like Apple in the race for wearable dominance.
Speaker 3: All that and so much more coming up up. There
Speaker 3: is one main big story this morning, and it is
Speaker 3: the Netflix deal with TKO, parent of WWE. Sources telling
Speaker 3: us it is a five billion dollar deal over ten
Speaker 3: years Monday Night Raw Live on the platform starting in
Speaker 3: January of twenty twenty five, but outside of the US,
Speaker 3: exclusivity on a number of WWE brands and pay per
Speaker 3: view events in new markets meaning new eyeballs. Just last hour,
Speaker 3: I sat down with ww president Nick Kahan.
Speaker 4: Listen to this.
Speaker 2: We're pleased with the deal.
Speaker 1: And we love the fact that Netflix was willing to
Speaker 1: take a bet on us, as we know they had
Speaker 1: said previously that they were.
Speaker 2: Not into sports rights.
Speaker 1: The good thing about WWE, it's sports entertainment, as you
Speaker 1: said before the quick break there, so we're an entertainment
Speaker 1: property as much as we are a sports property. Fifty
Speaker 1: two weeks a year, live, consistent programming, an audience that
Speaker 1: is actually quite global if you look at India. In
Speaker 1: India is not part of this deal, but if you
Speaker 1: look at India with the second most popular sport in India.
Speaker 2: If you look at the United Kingdom, we're the fourth
Speaker 2: most popular sport there.
Speaker 1: This deal will take effect in the UK, so in
Speaker 1: addition to the United States, it allows us to gain
Speaker 1: even a greater global.
Speaker 2: Footprint as we look to expand the business.
Speaker 5: Well, Nick, I want to talk a little bit more
Speaker 5: about the decision to go with Netflix, go with a
Speaker 5: streamer versus staying with a Comcast for example. Did this
Speaker 5: purely come down to numbers where you were going to
Speaker 5: get the better deal or is this in effect a
Speaker 5: bet on where the future eyeballs are going to be.
Speaker 1: Well, look, we continue to love NBCU. We have SmackDown
Speaker 1: on USA, premiering this October. There we have our premium
Speaker 1: live events formerly our pay per views like WrestleMania on
Speaker 1: Peacock exclusively in the United States.
Speaker 2: They've been tremendous for us.
Speaker 1: With Raw, it was yet another test of someone new
Speaker 1: in the space, obviously an established streaming entity, the streaming entity,
Speaker 1: if you will.
Speaker 2: It was a good beat by us, and we think
Speaker 2: a good bet by them.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about ad pricing a little bit more here.
Speaker 5: Does this give you greater ad pricing power this deal?
Speaker 2: We think so.
Speaker 1: Look, you've seen what Amazon's been able to do on
Speaker 1: their ads supported tier. Netflix is going to have great
Speaker 1: success in that space. Wwe again, three hours a week
Speaker 1: on Raw every week allows Netflix to monetize this deal
Speaker 1: in the advertising space in a way that has not
Speaker 1: been seen before.
Speaker 3: And Nick Raw has this kind of super loyal and
Speaker 3: sizeable audience. But there must be a part of this
Speaker 3: deal where you're like, Okay, we need to think about
Speaker 3: the future and growing a new audience. And I wondered
Speaker 3: if there's any terms in the deal. When Netflix goes
Speaker 3: away and produces a behind the scenes kind of documentary
Speaker 3: exclusive to Netflix that introduces WWE to that new audience.
Speaker 3: Think about, like, what am I thinking of Drive to
Speaker 3: Survive and Formula one and the success that that had
Speaker 3: bringing a sport to a new audience.
Speaker 1: Would be a mistake by us at WWE to not
Speaker 1: do that with Netflix. So assume that what you said
Speaker 1: is exactly what we're all thinking, we being Netflix and WWE.
Speaker 1: You saw we Drive to Survive did for Formula One.
Speaker 1: As you just mentioned, we think the WWE audience, already
Speaker 1: big on a global level, only gets bigger with a
Speaker 1: show like that.
Speaker 3: Okay, that was WWE President Nick Kahn just in the
Speaker 3: last hour and my friend Bloomber's Katie Greifeld. For more
Speaker 3: on this, I'm going to bring in Hang Media CEO
Speaker 3: John Klein, who also served as a former president of CNN,
Speaker 3: and John, you know, live Entertainment, Live Sports.
Speaker 4: This is very interesting.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone saw this coming, this structure of deal,
Speaker 3: nor the duration of it, all the properties themselves, just
Speaker 3: your reaction to what Netflix has done here.
Speaker 6: Netflix has to do things like this, They have to
Speaker 6: do more of them too, and that's because what is
Speaker 6: dry streaming use among consumers is not those high end,
Speaker 6: expensive dramas that Netflix is famous for it is free
Speaker 6: or low cost ads supported television. Basically, it's the same
Speaker 6: shows you used to watch on your cable system. People
Speaker 6: are now streaming in droves and what is driving that
Speaker 6: behavior is predominantly sports and also news programming. So they
Speaker 6: had to get into this space. I mean, I run
Speaker 6: as you said, Hang is a sports streaming platform that
Speaker 6: lets fans watch games on TV alongside famous athletes and celebrities,
Speaker 6: and we drive ridiculously high numbers of viewers, like six
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty thousand per event, plus sixty percent of
Speaker 6: them are eighteen to forty four, exactly the Gen Z
Speaker 6: and young millennials who all sports advertisers and teams and
Speaker 6: leagues want to reach. That's who Netflix is trying to reach.
Speaker 6: Now you know there. Netflix is trying to launch an
Speaker 6: ad supported tier. They had a bumpy going at the beginning.
Speaker 6: It seems to have at least stabilized now They have
Speaker 6: something like twenty three million monthly subscribers now to the
Speaker 6: AD supported tier, which is like six ninety nine per month,
Speaker 6: and that represents about thirty percent of their new sign up.
Speaker 6: So that's good. But it hasn't been easy and if
Speaker 6: you're going to be in the ad supported business, you
Speaker 6: have got to have sports look for that to try
Speaker 6: to do something in news as well, because news drives
Speaker 6: streaming behavior as well.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: John, let's just take a look at the shares. Netflix
Speaker 3: is now hire three tenths of a percent. TKO is
Speaker 3: off its session highs, but is up seventeen percent. So
Speaker 3: we use that to ask who got the better deal?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: We are reporting, citing sources that it's five billion over
Speaker 3: ten years. So let's say it's five hundred million dollars
Speaker 3: a year when Comcast paid two hundred and sixty five
Speaker 3: million a year.
Speaker 4: For the rights.
Speaker 3: Uh, it wasn't seen as a very good deal in
Speaker 3: this instance.
Speaker 4: Who got the better of it?
Speaker 6: I think they're both winners here. You know it brands
Speaker 6: WWE is forward thinking, Mate puts them smack in the
Speaker 6: middle of the streaming conversation, gets their their their hot
Speaker 6: property raw out of the cable world. It's going to
Speaker 6: hurt USA Network as the number one show on that
Speaker 6: cable channel, and so it's it's great for them and
Speaker 6: for the future growth possibilities. As Nick referred to. I've
Speaker 6: known Nick for a long long time and he's a
Speaker 6: very savvy deal maker thinker about media. At the same time,
Speaker 6: it's great for Netflix because it just pumps them with
Speaker 6: some very current product that is hugely popular across a
Speaker 6: lot of demos, but certainly among younger A lot of
Speaker 6: LATINX viewers you know, are driven to WWE programming as well,
Speaker 6: and as you had alluded in your earlier interview, the
Speaker 6: programming possibilities around all the characters, you know, just imagine
Speaker 6: being able to do the you know, to do their
Speaker 6: version of the Last Dance dot Com entry with those characters.
Speaker 3: Hey, John, sorry to interrupt. You're talking about the winners.
Speaker 3: I just want to talk about a potential loser. I'm
Speaker 3: looking at shares of Disney that are down one point
Speaker 3: four percent, and it raises the.
Speaker 4: Question, where is Disney?
Speaker 3: Where's ESPN in this idea that live events call it
Speaker 3: sports or live entertainment is going to go to streaming platforms.
Speaker 6: And they've been very vague about their streaming plans right
Speaker 6: They've said, look, we're working on a pivot from linear
Speaker 6: cable delivery into streaming, but we're not going to have
Speaker 6: an answer on that until twenty twenty five, which is
Speaker 6: like saying forever in the world of digital I mean
Speaker 6: Moore's law, everything accelerates exponentially, and so they've got to
Speaker 6: be scratching their heads and trying to come up with
Speaker 6: a strategy that's going to work. Now. What puts all
Speaker 6: of these players in jeopardy? But Netflix included is the
Speaker 6: runaway behemoth that is YouTube. YouTube is by far the
Speaker 6: biggest TV network on Earth. They have something like one
Speaker 6: hundred and twenty two million daily users two point seven
Speaker 6: billion monthly users. And that just dwarfs a couple hundred
Speaker 6: million here, one hundred million there for the other streamers.
Speaker 6: And you know where YouTube they give you the product
Speaker 6: for free. For the most part. You can subscribe to premium,
Speaker 6: but the vast majority of users are just accessing it
Speaker 6: for free. And you know, here's Netflix, It's still going
Speaker 6: to charge you six dollars a month for the over
Speaker 6: seven dollars a month for the ad supported tier. It's
Speaker 6: not free. And so what all other streaming platforms have
Speaker 6: to do is figure out a way to take share
Speaker 6: from YouTube or borrow from their model better than they
Speaker 6: have been.
Speaker 3: John Klein of the sports streaming platform Hang Media Great
Speaker 3: industry quick reaction to what is a big story Now, look,
Speaker 3: the news came out this morning and you may have forgotten,
Speaker 3: but after the bell, Netflix posts is quarterly earning. So
Speaker 3: let's get to that with Bloomberg Intelligence and Lisquita Ang
Speaker 3: and Nathan. Let's park wwe for a moment, because we
Speaker 3: came into this quarter or the quarter gone saying Netflix
Speaker 3: could post some big overall numbers here.
Speaker 7: Oh.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, I think expectations coming into this quarter ed are
Speaker 8: really high, and that's because management themselves during the last
Speaker 8: earning Skulls said, you know, expect pretty strong growth on
Speaker 8: the back of those two initiatives. I mean we were
Speaker 8: just speaking about the advertising tiers, so that's obviously a
Speaker 8: huge initiative for them, as well as the you know,
Speaker 8: the passwords share crackdown, what they call Paige sharing. And
Speaker 8: so we are seeing pretty good subscriber numbers. We saw
Speaker 8: that in the third quarter, we were expecting another nine
Speaker 8: to ten million new subscriber ads. And so then if
Speaker 8: you look at the whole ear of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 8: Netflix would have basically gained twenty five million subscribers. That
Speaker 8: puts them back in kind of that pre pandemic level.
Speaker 8: I mean last year twenty twenty two, it was eight
Speaker 8: or nine million new subscriber ads. That's when we had
Speaker 8: that great Netflix correction, and then now in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 8: they're kind of right back on track. The question is,
Speaker 8: of course, what's next, right, what is the next big
Speaker 8: growth catalyst for the stock?
Speaker 4: Well, let's ask that question.
Speaker 3: I mean, I watched Rebel Moon Part one, a child
Speaker 3: Afar over the holidays. I won't give my opinion, but
Speaker 3: look at IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes. So then go back
Speaker 3: to WWE. You know, the content pipeline is important, but
Speaker 3: this is a deal that doesn't kick untill twenty twenty five,
Speaker 3: and news overnight that the film chiefs leaving to go
Speaker 3: out swear.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a really interesting point that you bring up,
Speaker 8: ed because what we've seen so Netflix, as you know,
Speaker 8: a few weeks ago, Netflix kind of released this first
Speaker 8: really detailed what they call what we watched an engagement report,
Speaker 8: where they basically said who watched what over the first
Speaker 8: six months in twenty twenty three, And what we kind
Speaker 8: of learned from that report was that only about you know,
Speaker 8: fifty five percent of the top titles were really their originals,
Speaker 8: forty five percent is licensed content. And so as we
Speaker 8: kind of think about Scott Stubert leaving. You know, it
Speaker 8: goes to show that licensed content can still play a huge,
Speaker 8: huge role for Netflix, and that's exactly what we've been seeing.
Speaker 8: I mean, we saw that massive phenomenon with Suits, which
Speaker 8: kind of had you know, this huge audience based kind
Speaker 8: of come back and bring interest to a show that
Speaker 8: was that old and was you know, airing on a
Speaker 8: rival TV network. And we've seen so many of these
Speaker 8: other titles, you know, whether their movies from from the
Speaker 8: Max service, whether there's some of the older Max shows,
Speaker 8: all kind of finding this huge audience space and Netflix.
Speaker 8: So one thing that we've learned is that, you know,
Speaker 8: just for them, licensing old content can also work really well.
Speaker 8: So they don't necessarily need to make huge bets right
Speaker 8: now in the original show space, but they do need
Speaker 8: to get into diverse content to really kind of attract
Speaker 8: the advertising basin. That's exactly what this deal with TKO
Speaker 8: is all about.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 3: Suits is a fan favorite of everyone on Team Bloomberg Technology,
Speaker 3: according to the chat on My screen, and they gave
Speaker 3: it a second life. Guitarang Nathan Bloomberg Intelligence and lists
Speaker 3: standby Netflix earnings after the Bell will catch up tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Now coming up, we're going to get the big picture
Speaker 3: outlook for tech earnings overall with melag and Asino Wee
Speaker 3: Family Offices CEO, and in the earnings context, we're looking
Speaker 3: at shares of both Verizon and Texas Instruments. Remember Textas
Speaker 3: Instruments after the bell, very analog focused semiconductor maker. So
Speaker 3: many end markets. We have questions about Verizon interesting performance,
Speaker 3: added the most mobile customers in two years. It seems
Speaker 3: that this kind of turnaround plan the carrier is working.
Speaker 3: Those shares up more than five percent. My goodness, what
Speaker 3: a start to a Tuesday. This is Bloomberg technology.
Speaker 4: Okay, it's kind of like this.
Speaker 3: Tiptoe Tuesday when it comes to financial markets, equities kind
Speaker 3: of stuck within narrow ranges. Earnings is a really big
Speaker 3: factor now this week technology in particular. Verizon was out
Speaker 3: this morning, Next up Texas Instruments. Later in the week Tesla, Intel,
Speaker 3: and after the Bell. The big one we've been talking
Speaker 3: about is Netflix and so at an index level, nothing
Speaker 3: crazy in terms of movement, and in the back of
Speaker 3: our minds we're thinking about the FED and what they
Speaker 3: will or won't do over the course of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Delighted to say that joining us now to get through
Speaker 3: these markets is Melagamassino. We Family Offices CEO, joining us
Speaker 3: out of Miami.
Speaker 4: We went into this.
Speaker 3: Week on Bloomberg focused very much on the Magnificence seven, right,
Speaker 3: this idea that they were where you wanted to be
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three. But if you look at the
Speaker 3: earning season ahead, the expectation is that that bucket of
Speaker 3: seven will have EPs growth of forty six percent, and
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem to be any earnings growth elsewhere other
Speaker 3: than maybe utilities. Do you have to be in the
Speaker 3: Magnificent seven for the rest of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9: No, I think that actually we're heading into kind of
Speaker 9: a Goldilog scenario with inflation coming down.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 9: GDP growth for the third quarter was four point nine percent.
Speaker 9: They estimate that it's going to be about two percent
Speaker 9: for the fourth quarter. Unemployment is low, wages have risen
Speaker 9: higher than inflation. Two thirds of the US economy is
Speaker 9: consumer consumer lead. So actually I'm very bullish for the
Speaker 9: S and P five hundred, not just for the Magnificent seven.
Speaker 3: Every time that you and I have talked over the
Speaker 3: last twelve months, you actually go a little bit deeper
Speaker 3: on the technology sector, you know, into sub sectors that
Speaker 3: you say, okay, I have a thesis here. Let's take,
Speaker 3: for example, semiconductors. What is the twenty twenty four semiconductor
Speaker 3: call from melag A Mesino.
Speaker 10: Oh.
Speaker 9: I think semiconductors will continue to be strong. I think
Speaker 9: the whole healthcare sector can have huge profitability and efficiency
Speaker 9: from the use of artificial intelligence. So I think what
Speaker 9: we're going to start to see it is how different
Speaker 9: sectors are going to start applying artificial intelligence, not just
Speaker 9: in terms of research and innovation, but the ability to
Speaker 9: empower their employees at their desk. And so I think
Speaker 9: that it's going to be much more croub based than
Speaker 9: the tech stocks. I think it's regular companies, industrial companies,
Speaker 9: consumer staples companies, et cetera.
Speaker 4: Have the potential to have.
Speaker 9: Much more productivity as a result of these team tools.
Speaker 4: I think we're in the beginning.
Speaker 9: We're in the beginning stages of what's going to be
Speaker 9: a transformational technology for all of industry.
Speaker 4: How do you use AI every day?
Speaker 3: You know, there's the investing side and where you can
Speaker 3: allocate capital, and then there's you wake up and think,
Speaker 3: how do I use AI today?
Speaker 4: Well, if you.
Speaker 9: Think about it, in our own work, we're using more
Speaker 9: and more AI tools to actually take care of a
Speaker 9: lot of administrative tasks that are very talented people were
Speaker 9: doing and now you can really leverage them so that
Speaker 9: they can use their full talents instead of spending on
Speaker 9: a lot of administrative tasks. So I think that's just
Speaker 9: a small sample of what AI can do to just
Speaker 9: leverage every single company and the way that they use
Speaker 9: their talent. I mean, I don't think. I don't I'm
Speaker 9: not one of those people that worries about white collar
Speaker 9: workers losing their jobs. I think AI is going to
Speaker 9: empower and lift white collar workers to do a much
Speaker 9: better job.
Speaker 3: Mel there are certain sections of the technology sector that
Speaker 3: are sensitive to rates. Higher rates discount the present value
Speaker 3: of future cashflows is what I say on the show
Speaker 3: all the time. And right now the market seems to
Speaker 3: be shrugging off a pretty constant stream of FED speak
Speaker 3: that is warning us about our anticipation at the timing
Speaker 3: and depth of rate cuts. Why is the market not
Speaker 3: listening to the FED?
Speaker 9: Well, I think we've been in this tube of war
Speaker 9: because I between what the market says and what the
Speaker 9: FED is saying for months now, and that's what caused
Speaker 9: volatility in the market. But I personally listen to the FED.
Speaker 9: I think in spite of what the market would like,
Speaker 9: I think the FED is taking its time. It's making
Speaker 9: sure that the data that the lag effect of the
Speaker 9: interest rate rises, that they put in place, that they're
Speaker 9: really un stand what the data is saying before they.
Speaker 4: Start lowering rates.
Speaker 9: But they will lower rates, it just might not be
Speaker 9: as fast as the market expects.
Speaker 4: For this year.
Speaker 3: How top of mind is geopolitical risk, and you know,
Speaker 3: knowing that you look so closely at the chip sector,
Speaker 3: I go straight to China in my mind when we
Speaker 3: think about both the supply chain but also demand side
Speaker 3: of that industry.
Speaker 9: Well, China is I mean, China's economy is really not
Speaker 9: doing well. And I even think the latest stimulus that
Speaker 9: you know, the Chinese government tried to do to sort
Speaker 9: of stabilize the stock market, it's not going to work
Speaker 9: because there's fundamentally fundamental economic issues in China, starting with
Speaker 9: the real estate sector but also the finance sector. And
Speaker 9: I think the interference of the government in the business
Speaker 9: sector has really chased away a lot of the foreign investors.
Speaker 9: The lack of the kind of governance that were used
Speaker 9: to seeing has chased away foreign investors, and they played
Speaker 9: a pretty big role in China. So I think it's
Speaker 9: different with China. The geo political issue that I think
Speaker 9: most people worry about is actually what's going to happen
Speaker 9: with the US election. Having said that, we just did
Speaker 9: a study of what happens with every shock in the
Speaker 9: stock market starting from World War Two all the way
Speaker 9: through you know, the Israel Hamas situation, and the stock
Speaker 9: market reacts emotionally initially, and then six months later, a
Speaker 9: year later, it's up.
Speaker 3: So now I'm sorry to interrupt with a short on time,
Speaker 3: but before I lose you, I got a question from.
Speaker 4: Our audience that's tuned in right now.
Speaker 3: If AI will help white collar workers in the US,
Speaker 3: as you said, what are the implications for those industries
Speaker 3: that outsource a lot of work to workforces in India,
Speaker 3: for example, I think.
Speaker 4: Some of that work's going to come home.
Speaker 9: I don't think we need to outsource. I think it's
Speaker 9: actually going to be a huge boon for the US
Speaker 9: economy and for our friends that are closer to US.
Speaker 9: I think gonna We're gonna focus more on resilience.
Speaker 3: I just cost mel Lagamassino. We family offices, sere. We
Speaker 3: always go so broad when you join me on the program,
Speaker 3: I really appreciate it your time today out of Miami,
Speaker 3: time for talking tech and first Up by Jew's, once
Speaker 3: considered one of the most valuable startups in the world,
Speaker 3: is seeking to raise one hundred billion dollars in funds
Speaker 3: at evaluation of less than two billion dollars to ease
Speaker 3: its financial problems. That's down from twenty two billion dollars
Speaker 3: in its last round in late twenty twenty two. Plus
Speaker 3: EV sales growth may be slowing, but investor enthusiasm in
Speaker 3: the technology is not. Danish EV charging software startup Monta
Speaker 3: raised eighty seven million dollars in bench capital to expand
Speaker 3: its business across Europe and the US, and a doctored
Speaker 3: audio message of President Joe Biden urging voters in New
Speaker 3: Hampshire not to cast their ballots in today's democratic primary
Speaker 3: circulated over the weekend. The deep Fake alarmed the world's
Speaker 3: disinformation experts very quick check in on the markets and
Speaker 3: a's that one hundred not doing a great deal in
Speaker 3: this current session, but the context this week is earnings.
Speaker 3: Think about Netflix after the bell, Tesla's have come in
Speaker 3: twenty four hours, Intel later in the week. It's becoming
Speaker 3: more of a consideration for the market broadly, and there
Speaker 3: are high hopes of the Magnificent seven. The real big
Speaker 3: question is do we see earning's growth and do we
Speaker 3: see key metrics beat when it comes to the much
Speaker 3: broader name list of names that we have in the
Speaker 3: technology sector.
Speaker 4: Another name that.
Speaker 3: I've been watching closely but we've talked about less in
Speaker 3: the last week or so is Amazon. The stock actually
Speaker 3: flatters a pancake in the current session, but a story
Speaker 3: breaking overnight in Europe. The French regulator or a watchdog
Speaker 3: is looking at Amazon and basically concerned about a system
Speaker 3: it's put in place over employee surveillance monitoring the work
Speaker 3: activities and work performance of those employees. It was a
Speaker 3: thirty four million dollar fine. It open lower, but you
Speaker 3: can see we've pair those losses and we're now back
Speaker 3: with the e commerce giant trading down a tenth of
Speaker 3: one percent. Now another story in the e commerce context.
Speaker 3: TIMU is known as a destination for younger consumers, but
Speaker 3: new research paints a different picture. Actually, the Chinese e
Speaker 3: commerce app is attracting hordes of boomer and Gen X shoppers.
Speaker 3: Let's bring in Bloomberg's boomer in chief spencer Sopa. Now
Speaker 3: I'm that's unkind spencer. Let's bring in Bloomberg's e commerce
Speaker 3: chief spencer Soper. I mean, this is surprising when I
Speaker 3: hear about Timu, I hear about it from all kinds
Speaker 3: of people. But like we suggested a younger audience. What
Speaker 3: is the data set you got hold of and what
Speaker 3: does it tell you?
Speaker 11: Yeah, basically Grandma is addicted to Timus.
Speaker 4: So that was a surprise for us too. You think
Speaker 4: that allowed these these.
Speaker 11: App especially mobile centered e commerce platforms like Timu, would
Speaker 11: attract younger shoppers who are glued to their phones, But
Speaker 11: it turns out you're seeing the most loyal shoppers in
Speaker 11: the in the boomer category fifty nine and older. That's
Speaker 11: data from a tain that that monitors credit card transactions
Speaker 11: and so it and then when you think about it
Speaker 11: and peel back a little bit, you do see that.
Speaker 11: You know, there are a lot of gaming aspects. When
Speaker 11: you open the app, you almost feel like you walked
Speaker 11: into a Las Vegas casino or something. So it does
Speaker 11: make sense that older shoppers are drawn to it.
Speaker 3: What's interesting is that Timu has been operating in the
Speaker 3: US for not that long, I think like twelve months
Speaker 3: or so, right, Spencer. And one of the reasons I
Speaker 3: love your reporting in the context of all these e
Speaker 3: commerce companies is you go out into the real world
Speaker 3: and you speak to people using the platform.
Speaker 4: What did you find out there and who did you
Speaker 4: speak to?
Speaker 11: Yeah, we spoke to one woman in her fifties from Spokane, Washington,
Speaker 11: out here on the West coast, and she, you know,
Speaker 11: she said she was actually introduced to introduced to it
Speaker 11: by your mother, who's in her seventies. So again it
Speaker 11: reinforced that older shopper. And you know, basically she just said, hey,
Speaker 11: look there's there's great deals on here, I can spend freely.
Speaker 4: She'd made like thirty.
Speaker 11: Purchases, buying all kinds of things, vases, home goods, you know,
Speaker 11: like winter hats for her children, and she also bought
Speaker 11: some soap dispenser and even part of the fun was
Speaker 11: that she knows some of the stuff was going to
Speaker 11: show up, you know and just be absolute garbage, you know,
Speaker 11: and that's what she mentioned about about her the soap Dispenser,
Speaker 11: that a lot of things she bought are quite nice,
Speaker 11: but one thing that looked nice on the image, when
Speaker 11: it got to her house, it was just a piece
Speaker 11: of junk and all she could do was laugh because
Speaker 11: she didn't spend that much money on it.
Speaker 3: All right, Bobo, Spenser Sofa just terrific reporting out there in.
Speaker 4: The real world, but also a key grasp of the data.
Speaker 3: And let's stick with that data from Attain and bring
Speaker 3: in Brian Mendelbaum, CEO of the Chicago research firm Attain,
Speaker 3: which minds credit card data from a panel of around
Speaker 3: six point five million consumers, and again Attained, the firm
Speaker 3: behind the report that Spencer was just outlining. Brian, it's
Speaker 3: an interesting finding, right that for ages well. For twelve months,
Speaker 3: we believe that tea was a hit with younger generations.
Speaker 4: You found the opposite.
Speaker 3: Let's start by explaining the methodology of how you brought
Speaker 3: the data.
Speaker 7: About Yeah sure a TAIN is a commerce data platform
Speaker 7: that enables outcomes, both driving outcomes and measuring outcomes for
Speaker 7: brands and advertisers. And unlike retailers who can only see
Speaker 7: really inside of their four walls or on their shopping experiences.
Speaker 7: Attain has over six and a half million consumers that
Speaker 7: are with their consent, sharing over a half a billion
Speaker 7: dollars a day in sales behavior, credit card, debit cards,
Speaker 7: basket level information, and with that data, it gives us
Speaker 7: an unrivaled view of how consumers are actually spending their
Speaker 7: money and their behaviors in real time across retail in
Speaker 7: every sector of the US economy, including social commerce channels,
Speaker 7: which are what we're talking about today.
Speaker 4: So get me wrong, Brian.
Speaker 3: I'm a young man, and you know sometimes when I
Speaker 3: go onto an e commerce platform, I look at the
Speaker 3: basket size and I say stop to stop. But if
Speaker 3: you look at the data, the transaction size difference between
Speaker 3: somebody that in a category I fall into and the
Speaker 3: boomers that Spencer was talking about, it's not that different
Speaker 3: in terms of the dollar spend.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not that different terms in terms of the
Speaker 6: dollar spent.
Speaker 7: It's the frequency in which these boomers and gen xers
Speaker 7: are spending on the platform. I mean, what's really surprising,
Speaker 7: if you really think about it, is that you would
Speaker 7: think that this would be for the gen Z economy
Speaker 7: because they're anchored in social media, it's their primary source
Speaker 7: of content consumption. But in this retail e commerce environment
Speaker 7: that's been evolving, we're going through somewhat of a renaissance,
Speaker 7: and that our data suggests that digital is nuanced when
Speaker 7: it comes down to it, and that it's every facet
Speaker 7: of the economy has a different market and a different
Speaker 7: niche and advertisers need to rethink their engagement strategies if
Speaker 7: they want to capture more market share outside of the
Speaker 7: gen Z economy.
Speaker 3: Brian, the data helps us understand TEAMU, But in isolation,
Speaker 3: have you guys got any data that helps us to
Speaker 3: understand better Team Who's performance in this market, at least
Speaker 3: against other players like Amazon, but also Sheen is an example.
Speaker 7: Well, our research looked at last year Amazon Prime Days
Speaker 7: and how Amazon was doing during the holiday season.
Speaker 6: We saw the.
Speaker 7: Initial get gos of the holiday kickoff that Amazon sales
Speaker 7: were relatively flat, and arguably we're talking about a small base,
Speaker 7: but Team has been around for a year, year and
Speaker 7: a half and their growth has been explosive over that
Speaker 7: period of time. Again, it's off of a small base,
Speaker 7: but we're seeing what is the remarkable points around Are
Speaker 7: retailers going to have the strangle like Amazon, Target Walmart
Speaker 7: have the strangle on US consumers when it comes to
Speaker 7: quick commerce.
Speaker 6: Or are new entrants going to enter the be in.
Speaker 7: The market and solve a unique need for different segments
Speaker 7: in this fractured retail economy that started to come about.
Speaker 3: Brian, what does the real time day to tell you
Speaker 3: about the direction for Timu as we move past the
Speaker 3: holidays in this early part of the new year.
Speaker 6: Well, let's take a step back.
Speaker 7: The interesting impact here is that companies like Timu and
Speaker 7: Chien will have on US retail like Walmart and Amazon.
Speaker 7: Will they will consumers lean on quality and brand equity
Speaker 7: and fast shipping, or will we see a race to
Speaker 7: the bottom so retailers like Chian will the low price.
Speaker 7: This is really compel consumers to test this market and
Speaker 7: the gamification that Spencer was talking about earlier. It's too
Speaker 7: soon to tell, but I will tell you from our
Speaker 7: data in real time, we are seeing massive impacts of
Speaker 7: Chian and Timu entering the US market and stealing share
Speaker 7: from all parts of the generational spectrum in the US
Speaker 7: academy right now.
Speaker 3: Brian Mandelbaum, CEO of attained with their own data on
Speaker 3: how Timu's doing in its first twelve months in the US.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Coming up here on Bloomberg Technology, we're going to take
Speaker 3: a look at investing in Europe with Plural Platform. That
Speaker 3: conversation coming up next. This is Bloomberg Technology. Okay, let's
Speaker 3: dive into the venture industry in Europe with our next
Speaker 3: VEC spotlight. Guest Taveet Henricus, one of the co founders
Speaker 3: of tech companies Wise and partner at Plural Platform, which
Speaker 3: just raised a new four hundred million euro fund just
Speaker 3: eighteen months after its debut fund. And the timing of
Speaker 3: a second fund is interesting. The venture industry had mixed
Speaker 3: fortunes in twenty twenty three, but just explain the rationale
Speaker 3: to raise a new fund so quickly after the last.
Speaker 10: So we have spent the past eighteen months busy investing.
Speaker 10: We made twenty six investments in some of the most
Speaker 10: ambitious European firms and as such we were getting ready
Speaker 10: to raise the next fund. So for us, it made
Speaker 10: complete temps to go back on the market then raise
Speaker 10: a new fund which will continue on the same strategy.
Speaker 10: And really what we're doing is we're looking for the
Speaker 10: most ambitious European founders.
Speaker 3: Tat talk to me about the LPs. You know, your
Speaker 3: europe based fund four hundred million euros is sizable.
Speaker 4: Where did the money come from?
Speaker 10: Most of our money came from institutional investors, A lot
Speaker 10: of them means the US university and downs pension funds,
Speaker 10: So the classic tier one LPs.
Speaker 3: And what do you think is their motivation for wanting
Speaker 3: to put capital into a venture fund right now?
Speaker 10: So what we are building is quite new for Europe.
Speaker 10: In Europe, there are very few venture funds where all
Speaker 10: of the partners are ex company builders. So I do
Speaker 10: believe that the fact that the five partners say have
Speaker 10: all built businesses is a key reason why people are
Speaker 10: interested in investing. And also, I think we're coming to
Speaker 10: a point where Europe is really punching at its real weight.
Speaker 10: You know, we are now at a point where it's
Speaker 10: a number of new companies started in Europe has surpassed
Speaker 10: a number of companies started in the US. So I
Speaker 10: think investors are very excited to see a lot of
Speaker 10: companies coming from Europe. You know, if we look at
Speaker 10: what's come from here in the past, add em Spotify,
Speaker 10: why is Klarna? Lots of very big companies have come
Speaker 10: in the past decade.
Speaker 3: So where's the next big European name? You know that list?
Speaker 3: Those are kind of the of Europe right Spotify is
Speaker 3: a unique example. Many of them focused on fintech, though thematically,
Speaker 3: what areas do you see opportunity in?
Speaker 10: Europe is a large continent and I think there is
Speaker 10: going to be a lot of different verticals that will
Speaker 10: be built here. We're seeing lots in climate and energy.
Speaker 10: We've invested in a company called Field which is building
Speaker 10: brid scale batteries. It then Sarah's lots in deep tech.
Speaker 10: We have a company proxim of Fusion building a usion reactor.
Speaker 10: And obviously we can't get done without mentioning AI and
Speaker 10: the way that AI is attacking different verticals. Robbin Ai
Speaker 10: is one of our companies helping lawyers get away from
Speaker 10: the dodgery and do more productive work, and similarly Teton
Speaker 10: in healthcare sector helping nurses be more productive. So I
Speaker 10: think we'll see successes come from a variety of industries it,
Speaker 10: but I think what kind of combines them all is
Speaker 10: ambitious founders looking to build consequential businesses.
Speaker 3: Robin Ai is a company known to us. The CEO
Speaker 3: has been on the program with US quite recently. It's
Speaker 3: interesting because robin Ai is an example of a startup
Speaker 3: that's taking on a giant right. They think of the
Speaker 3: integration of their technology into existing Microsoft Office. But here
Speaker 3: in the United States it is Microsoft, Amazon Aws and
Speaker 3: open Ai leading the charge.
Speaker 4: I always think about it as.
Speaker 3: Kind of little and large, and I just asked if
Speaker 3: you could assess the chances that Europe has of bringing
Speaker 3: a big AI player to the four.
Speaker 10: I think there is a lot of AI talent in Europe.
Speaker 10: You can look at some of the past geared announcements
Speaker 10: from coming from France, for example about all alone technology,
Speaker 10: and certainly if you look at vertical applications, you know,
Speaker 10: I do not believe that open ai can do something
Speaker 10: in every vertical. So what we're looking to back is
Speaker 10: companies in a vertical and how as a proprietary data
Speaker 10: and in these verticals. I am convin so that Europe
Speaker 10: can build some of the champions.
Speaker 4: Tavit.
Speaker 3: I'm really interested in plural platforms. You have personnel in London,
Speaker 3: you have personnel in talent. What is it like running
Speaker 3: a venture firm that's kind of pan European. How do
Speaker 3: you operate day to day.
Speaker 10: Since the nature of Europe is that it's a number
Speaker 10: of different ecosystems. So if you look at the bigger
Speaker 10: clusters in Europe, we have UK, we have Germany, we
Speaker 10: have Estonia, we have some Nordic city. So it's really
Speaker 10: a question of being in touch with people in all
Speaker 10: of these different ecosystems and making sure that the most
Speaker 10: ambitious founders knows that the Plural is a place to
Speaker 10: come looking for capital.
Speaker 3: Right now, is there one particular city that you visited
Speaker 3: recently in Europe and you thought there's something here in
Speaker 3: terms of technology, talent or what's being built.
Speaker 10: We have done two deals in Amsterdam recently. I think
Speaker 10: that's something which I would not have a year ago.
Speaker 10: So I put taps as a rising star and.
Speaker 3: Really quick, what were those deals? Tell me about the
Speaker 3: technology companies?
Speaker 10: So one of the mess particle, which is a particle
Speaker 10: printer and a company has not yet been announced, but
Speaker 10: we'll talk about it very soon.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well you leave us with that that tease, and
Speaker 3: you have to come back on the program when it
Speaker 3: is announced. Tab Henricus partner a Plural platform.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Today's going viral Oscars nominations are out and trending online.
Speaker 3: I see it trending on X in the United States.
Speaker 3: I see real time Google trends. The OSCARS nominations top
Speaker 3: of the tree. But there are some major names getting
Speaker 3: snubbed after going viral all summer. Barbie missed some big nods.
Speaker 3: Director Greta Gerwig did not receive a nomination for directing
Speaker 3: The Billion Dollar Film, and Margo Robbie also missed out
Speaker 3: for Best Actress. However, the movie is contended for Best
Speaker 3: Picture and Ken actor Ryan Gosling did get nominated for
Speaker 3: Best Supporting Actor. But I'm also looking on social media,
Speaker 3: and I'm looking on Google and many of you making
Speaker 3: your views known on some of those Oscars snubs. Today's
Speaker 3: going viral.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: The ninety six FORCADME Awards will be held on March
Speaker 3: tenth at seven pm, live on ABC and hosted for
Speaker 3: a fourth time by Jimmy Kimmel. Another big story that
Speaker 3: we're watching, Ali barber Schez jumped after The New York
Speaker 3: Times reported that founder Jack mar and Ali barbera chairman
Speaker 3: Josie have both been buying up shares in the company
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Isabelle Lee joins me for more in New York.
Speaker 3: That is a kind of story as old as time.
Speaker 3: Executives buying up shares of company gives confidence. But in
Speaker 3: Jack mars case, that's interesting given his current and historic
Speaker 3: relationship with the company.
Speaker 12: Definitely interesting and a lot of layers here. So we
Speaker 12: have the duo snapping up shares in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 12: Ever since the stocks price has plunged. We have Time
Speaker 12: buying around one hundred and fifty one worth of Ali
Speaker 12: Baba's US traded shares through his family's investment vehicle, that's
Speaker 12: Bluepool Management. And we have Ma buying around fifty million
Speaker 12: worth of shares in the fourth quarter. So recall that
Speaker 12: Ma gave up his executive chairman role in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 12: but he is still a major stockholder. And to your point,
Speaker 12: this is kind of complex because what does this mean
Speaker 12: too many investors, It means that really it just reflects
Speaker 12: the belief of Ma inside that maybe Ali Baba share
Speaker 12: is still undervalued. Recall that its shares fell sharply from
Speaker 12: its twenty twenty peak as sharp as eighty percent. At
Speaker 12: Ali Baba's market cap right now is harving around one
Speaker 12: seventy five million billion rather and in twenty twenty it
Speaker 12: was hovering around eight hundred and fifty billions, So that's
Speaker 12: really a huge trim there.
Speaker 3: It's worth reminding the Bluebot Technology audience that what we're
Speaker 3: talking about right now is a seven percent gain on
Speaker 3: the US listed shares of Ali Barber or the ADR's
Speaker 3: American Depository receipts. But it is the China tech darling,
Speaker 3: or at least that's up for debate. It has been,
Speaker 3: and behind the scenes there has been this executive shuffle
Speaker 3: that you and I have talked about over the last
Speaker 3: few months on the show.
Speaker 12: Yes, so this gain today is the most we'b scene
Speaker 12: since August, but zooming out. The stock has fallen over
Speaker 12: forty three percent in the past twelve months, and again
Speaker 12: this isn't good news because Ali Baba used to be
Speaker 12: the darling, used to be the crown jewel of China,
Speaker 12: but now it's fallen behind rivals like ten Cent and PDD.
Speaker 12: And this is why I'm in a rare public intervention
Speaker 12: last year posted on their public forum in his company
Speaker 12: that Alibaba should maybe course correct and he praised PDD
Speaker 12: for a job well done. And it just really goes
Speaker 12: to show that this is kind of like a nudge
Speaker 12: in the shoulder for Ali Baba to probably do better.
Speaker 12: But Mad did end on a good note and he
Speaker 12: said Ali Baba could be successful again with hard work.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was reading the New York Times report and there
Speaker 3: is a rationale behind the current buying.
Speaker 4: What is it is about? According to that report?
Speaker 12: The New York Times report is saying that it's really
Speaker 12: just not Ali Baba because overall, if you look at
Speaker 12: the benchmark index of China, this USI index hit its
Speaker 12: slowest in five years this week, and this is why
Speaker 12: Chinese authorities are muling a package to stabilize and to
Speaker 12: arrest the stock market route. They're looking at around two
Speaker 12: hundred and seventy eight billion ED, so that's really a
Speaker 12: significant amount, and they're looking to buy mainly from offshore
Speaker 12: accounts of Chinese state owned companies. But if you ask investors,
Speaker 12: some of them are kind of this illusion. They're not
Speaker 12: feeling as optimistic because they said, Okay, this may spark
Speaker 12: a little rebound, but it's the fundamentals that need fixing.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Isabelle Lee there on Ali Barber's US listed shares,
Speaker 3: which as Isabelle said, are currently up around seven percent,
Speaker 3: on track for their biggest jump since August of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three August last year. That does it for what
Speaker 3: was a packed edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: A big thank you to everyone that's checking out the podcast.
Speaker 3: I know many of you listen on your way into
Speaker 3: work on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, and just as a reminder,
Speaker 3: we are posting the podcast to all of the Bloomberg
Speaker 3: platforms as well. Two days in into what is quickly
Speaker 3: becoming a week all about technology earnings, and that is
Speaker 3: what the conversation will be on this program from San Francisco,
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology.