WEBVTT - Blanche Confirmed as Attorney General; China-US Tech Battle 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:10.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:15.920 This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Lisa Matteo. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.600 Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:20.959 the show. 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.479 You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.800 the podcast, but also make sure to join us live 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.960 every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at seven am Easter. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.760 We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:37.600 bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.120 lifestyle and culture. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.640 The Senate confirming President Donald Trump's pick for Attorney General, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:47.080 Todd blanche. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:47.960 We're gonna go now to Laura Davidson. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.879 She's Bloomberg News Washington Deputy Bureau Chief Laura Late night 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.960 for our colleagues on the Hill before everybody tries to 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.280 skip town. This looks like when I went to bed 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.880 last night, it wasn't going to happen. Possibly, and then 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.200 you had but you had Bill Cassidy, who had been 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.480 like the big holdout, coming out and changing his mind 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.480 kind of yesterday, and then it was a holding pattern 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:08.760 and then all of a sudden it's got pushed through 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:09.679 this morning, Can you. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:11.000 Walk us through how this came about. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.840 Yes, this is how Congress frequently works is there's a 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.920 whole lot of nothing and then suddenly, you know, in 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.840 the wee hours of the morning, you're able to get 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.240 the votes and push something across the finish line. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.880 Once Senate leaders have exhausted everyone and they're you know, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:26.080 agreeing to vote for things. 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.640 So this is really, you know, sort of a remarkable 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.360 end to a week's long saga. If you had, you know, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.720 multiple senators coming out and expressing some concerns about Todd 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.120 Blanche and also just how Trump is influencing the Justice Department, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.520 particularly this one point eight billion dollar quote anti weaponization 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.160 fund that would have gone to support January sixth insurrectionists 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.560 and other allies of the president, as well as the 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.800 president being able to cut a deal with the Irs 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:56.280 to save himself from any tax audits. So you know, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.520 they were able to get some concessions. You know, some 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.080 Republicans were able to get some concessions from the Justice 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.520 Department that really limited the scope of that tax deal 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:08.120 as well as essentially tabling killing off that anti weaponization fund. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.760 You still had two senators who said no way Susan 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.280 Collins and Lisa Murkowski expressing broader concerns. But the last 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.680 vote what everyone was waiting for Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.800 He is a lame duck senator of Trump essentially opposed 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.160 him in his primary, and he will be leaving Congress 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:23.640 next year. 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:25.000 Everyone was watching him. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.080 He came out on the Senate floor yesterday and said, look, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.639 I have some problems with how the Justice Department is 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:32.600 being run, but I think that Todd Blanch is going 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.360 to be better than any other candidate that Trump is 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:36.920 going to put forward, and so therefore I'm going to 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.880 go ahead and give him my support and vote yes. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:40.840 Let me play a bit of that sound from that 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.399 speech again. This was highly anticipated, given that Murkowski defected, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.799 Collins defected. What was Bill Casty going to do. Let's 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:47.840 play and listen of what he had to play a 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.040 little bit of what he had to say here on 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:49.680 the Senate floor. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.200 Mister Blanch is not perfect, and he will tell you this. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.600 But the choice is not between perfection and mister Blanche. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.640 It is between mister Blanche and another acting Attorney general 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.120 who may not run the apartment effectively under President Trump, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:08.720 and who indeed may not be as good as mister 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:09.840 Blanche Laurie. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.760 Let's pick that apart a little bit. There not a 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:12.720 ringing endorsement. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.320 No, it is really the endorsement I would want going 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:16.040 into a new top. 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.560 And sorry, David, what do you make of what the 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.480 Center had to say to the rational as he presented 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:21.400 it there on the Senate floor. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:23.839 Well, I think you just have to take a look 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.639 at some recent history. If you look at you. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.520 Know who Trump has talked about having a top that 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:30.280 the Justice Department of the past. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:31.919 You his first pick back when he. 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.800 Was recently re elected in twenty twenty four, he wanted 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:39.160 Matt Gates, the really embattled and scandal plagued a member 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.320 of Congress who had had facing all sorts of allegations 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.680 of you know, underage sex charges and a whole bunch 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.280 of problems. That really got a very quick swift no 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.360 from Senate Republicans. That's when he pivoted to Pam BONDI. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.480 Of course, now Blanche will be replacing Bondie. But I 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.440 think you you know, in that speech, Cassidy mentioned that 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.280 he thinks that Todd Blanche will be a hands on 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:00.320 administrator and. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.760 Me, you know, sort of be able to run a 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:03.800 very very large. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.800 Department of thousands and thousands of lawyers, and that he's 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.440 not worried sort of broadly about I mean, mister Blanche's character, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.160 whereas he you know, sort of suggested that there would 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.320 be other candidates that the President might be interested in 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.080 who he would have more concerns with. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.040 You mentioned that what there were these two big concerns, 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.960 and one of them was this anti weaponization fund, and 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.040 Blanche kind of explained what he did. He kind of 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.600 wrote a memo or a promise that it's gone away, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.880 but my understanding is it's not really binding. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.120 Right, So it was enough, It was enough to get 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.840 him over the line. But can he change his mind? 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.600 Yes? This is really kind of the legal questions surrounding this. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.000 What some members of Congress wanted is is this written 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.040 into law saying that this could never come back up again. Instead, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:45.320 what they got is sort of a you know, sort 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.720 of a memo from the Justice Department saying this is 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.480 this is going away, but this is you know, continues 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.960 to be concerning to some members of Congress that this 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.280 could come back up in future deals. You know, as 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.520 we've seen you know, Trump time and time again. You know, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.440 has said he didn't really want this to go away, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.960 even though his allies and aids were telling him that 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.440 this was going to be sort of sacrificed, you know, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.520 for the broader good of getting his attorney general pick 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.680 across the line. You know, we've seen this on a 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.080 whole broad range of issues where Trump says, you know, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.520 he's moving on, but then suddenly brings it up. We've 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.719 seen this with a reflecting pool. We've seen this with 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.000 the ballroom of that he continues to fight on some 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.520 of these personal priorities for him. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:23.640 I don't think that what we saw last night meets 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.080 the strict definition of a voter rama. We had Stephen Dennis, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.680 our colleague, on a few weeks back, and we talked 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:30.440 about that with him. But there was a string of 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.760 legislation that the Senate dealt with before departing Washington yesterday. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.160 Another had to do with spending, and I want to 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.440 ask you about that, Laura, if I could. I mean, customarily, 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.160 or at least in recent memory, there have been a 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:40.800 lot of these kind of last minute spending bills that 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.719 have been quite acrimonious. They've led to government shutdowns. What 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.680 was passed. I think was it ninety to six last night? 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.480 Was not that it didn't seem like it went down 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:51.920 to the wire in the same way that it hasn't 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.040 in the past. What did the Senate accomplished in that regard? 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:56.280 What does it mean for the fall as we look 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.040 ahead to the midterms in terms of how the government 0:05:58.120 --> 0:05:58.520 is funded. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.080 Yes, so they passed is what's called a continuing resolution 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.720 or a CR. This is essentially a stop gap government 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.160 funding bill to keep the government open past the deadline 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.520 when current funding is set to expire. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:11.360 At the end of September. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.080 This would keep the government open until December eleventh, so 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.120 essentially kicks the can down the road beyond the midterm elections, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.880 which no one wants to see a shutdown happen during. Then, 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.560 what they haven't resolved yet is they haven't come to 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.159 agreement with the House. So good points for them doing 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.080 their advanced reading, but they have not reached the group 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.280 stage project of this. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:32.840 So when the. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.240 Senate comes back on September fourteenth, I note they have 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.240 just about two weeks to work with the House to 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.000 get a bill passed, so there's still a chance of 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.080 a shutdown. Chances tick down significantly last night when they 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.160 were able to at least get something on paper that 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.640 had broad bipartisan support, But we still could be talking 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.720 about a shutdown in late September. 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:50.640 And another votes. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.200 The Senate also passed this sweeping Russia sanctions bill yesterday 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.440 that has the Senator of the late Senator Lindsay Graham's 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:57.560 name on it, and we talked about. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.920 A little bit earlier. So it does a couple things. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.240 That allows the President to impose tariffs of up to 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.720 one hundred percent on Russian energy importers. These are countries 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.080 that are taking energy from Russia. But it also has 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.440 some other less popular clauses in there, including it can 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.440 give the president more flexibility to raise import taxes on 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.960 other major economies, and it seems to give him the 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.559 ability to unilaterally waive these sanctions if he decides they're 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:22.400 not a good idea. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.320 So this did get a lot of support. 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.600 But can you walk us through what's in this bill 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.200 and how effective it's likely to be? 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.280 Yeah, and this is really kind of a tricky one. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.480 Is there was you know, a kind of a classic. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.560 A cooperation of coming together of a bunch of different 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.880 pieces something for everybody to like but also something for 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:39.920 everybody to dislike. 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.000 So it had these Russian. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.360 Sanctions, which are you know, very much something that both 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.720 you know, sort of hawks on the Republican side as 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.200 well as some Democrats wanted to see happen. But these 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.480 sanctions come in the form of tariffs, which Democrats are 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.720 not super pleased about, giving the President more authority when 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.280 it comes to tariffs. This also embedded additional sanctions also 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.640 on Iran and a raw onion oil producers to bolster 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:04.960 some of the sanctions that have been coming from the 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.840 Treasury Department and gives Congress a little bit more control 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.920 over that. This is really kind of the strongest rebuke 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.120 we've seen, you know, in terms of the Iran war 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.280 coming from Congress. They've largely seated their power to the 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.240 White House and Trump on this matter, but you know, 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.400 it ultimately did get across the finish line. Part of 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.280 that is because this was one of those centerpiece pieces 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.920 of legislation that Lindsay Graham, who died just a couple 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.760 of weeks ago, had wanted to get done. So this 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.280 was really done in his legacy, and you know, made 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.240 it through the process perhaps more quickly because you know, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.440 his friends were doing it in his name versus something 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.559 that could have gotten bogged down by politics. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.240 Covering the waterfront here. Want to move on to the 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.440 Federal Reserve. And the President had some comments on the 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.400 FED when he sat down with Jake Sherman, of course, 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.120 creature of Capitol Hill, who made his way to the 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.360 White House to have a sit down with the President 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.959 of the United States. He's with punch Bowl News, and 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:53.560 let me just play a little bit about that about 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:54.959 what he had to say about the Federal Reserve. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.240 Should wash Kevin worsher FED chair avoid a rate hike 0:08:59.280 --> 0:08:59.920 before the election? 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.560 Well, it's up to him a little bit, but not completely. 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.880 And he's got a board that's very political, right, the 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.120 United States should pay the lowest interest rate in the 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:11.960 entire world. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.400 So you think that he shouldn't high rates before the election, It's. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.120 Not totally up to him. It's up to a board. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.760 I think he's great. I won't be criticizing him, but 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.160 I've said many times, you know, in the old days 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.520 twenty twenty five years ago, called it the old days, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.840 if you announced good numbers, the interest rates went down 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.160 because you were a better credit. Right makes sense? Right now, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.839 it's all be cocked. Now, it's all a different thing. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.160 If you announce great numbers, everybody's depressed because we have 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.640 great numbers. They think what you're going to do is 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.040 raise interest rates. But in the old days, when you 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.439 announce great numbers, interest rates went down. So I want 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:50.640 to go back to those days. 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.000 The President. They're a ponting on monetary policy with Jake 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.760 Sherman of punch Bowl. Lauren. Let me just ask you 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.600 about something that kind of complimented this. There was this 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.840 letter that landed last week. Dan Scavino, the head of 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.600 the Personnel Office at the White House, sent a letter 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.040 to Lisa Cook, the Fed Governor, on the heels of 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.800 all of the travails that she's been through and the 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.640 Supreme Court decision on her appointment, saying, effectively, she has 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.280 to kind of respond to the allegations that have been 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.480 levied against her with regard to alleged mor mortgage fraud 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.480 here by mid August. If I'm not mistaken, where do 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.520 things stand with that? What does that say about the 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.880 White House's approach here to the independence of the feder Reserve. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.440 Melk was not giving up on his attempts to fire 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.920 Lisa Cook, the Supreme Court earlier this summer said that 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.480 when he went about it, he didn't do it the 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.120 right way. So now we're seeing the White House try 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.240 some different legal avenues to see if they might be 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:37.360 able to oust her. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.280 You know, we heard Trump say there. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.880 Like, look, this isn't all up to Kevin worsh of 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.280 course that's his hand picked chair at the Federal Reserve, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.679 but that there's a broader board here. So you're seeing 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.560 the White House sort of pivot to seeing if they 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.440 can pluck off other members of the board that they 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.400 could then replace with people who'd be more open to 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.520 the President's view of wanting to lower interest rates rather 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:58.960 than raise them. Although you know, the President did get 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.360 a little bit of you know, a boost perhaps in 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.920 yesterday's jobs report, which while from sort of a top 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.680 line perspective, was disappointing, and that you know, we saw 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.600 some contraction in jobs, but it at least reduces some 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.120 of the pressure on the Fed to raise rates. I 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.640 don't know that's necessarily're sarily going to lead to a 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.400 rate cut, but we see the White House kind of 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.480 working all angles here to see if they're able to 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.839 get the monetary policy that the president desires. 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.880 And speaking of retreading old ideas, we also had this 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.480 Trump birthright tourism executive order that came out this week 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.479 in which the President seems to be trying to reimpose 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.600 with the Supreme Court also struck down, making it restricting 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.959 those who can qualify for birthright citizenship, including staff workers 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.120 for foreign governments and babies of mothers who lie about 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.120 their intentions for visiting the country while pregnant. But Laura, 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.880 is there any way to enforce this? 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.680 This is a huge question mark. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.240 This almost seems destined for legal challenges and perhaps yet 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.240 again another Supreme Court challenge in the coming months, if 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.160 not year. This is a you know, essentially, the White 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.280 House lawyers have been working overdrive in the past couple 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.440 of weeks to respond to some of those losses that 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.520 Trump had in the Supreme Court earlier this summer to 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.760 now get some new executive orders or new actions on 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.280 the board here. But the birthright citizenship was sort of 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.920 one of his most stinging losses and you know, looks 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.640 from you know, because of the constitutional nature of the 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.920 Fourteenth Amendment, there something that he's unlikely to have big 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.320 legal successes on. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.160 Lord great to get chup with you. Thank you very 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:27.880 much again, I said a lot to cover this morning 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:28.200 and help. 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:28.719 Us get at me. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.400 Gave Laura her own voterama. Thank you for us being 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.559 so knowledgeable on all those topics. We appreciate a lot 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.200 going on in a short period of time, Our. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.880 Deputy Washington Bureau Chief, stay with us for more on 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:40.920 Bloomberg this weekend. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:55.200 Right after this, the next summit between Presidence Trump and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.480 she is scheduled to take place next month in Washington, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.920 and the agenda he's expected to send her on trade 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:01.600 and technology. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.440 And for almost a decade, Evan Osnos is a Beijing 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.280 based reporter. He's also the author of a book, Age 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.000 of Ambition, Chasing Fortune, Truth and Faith in the New China. 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.560 These days he's based in DC, but he recently took 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.480 a reporting trip to China and a new piece for 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.120 The New Yorker, he writes that many of those changes 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.960 have taken place since twenty thirteen, and saying for a 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.720 long time, China looked west for visions of the future. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.800 These days it's favoring its own. 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.640 Its approach to AI is one illustration of that. Evan 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:29.280 Osnos is a staff writer for The New Yorker and 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.240 he joins us Now on this Saturday, Evan, I want 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.559 to start with AI if I could, because I'm going 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.400 to paraphrase you here. You'll forgive me for doing that. 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.120 But you highlight the distinction between the way that China 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.079 approaches AI and the way that the US does. And 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.200 I think what you sort of indicate is that in 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.679 the US the debate is about sort of advanced general intelligence, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.800 sort of what that might mean for our society as 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.360 a whole. It is a much more kind of commercially 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.160 focused aspiration in China than it is here in the US. 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.040 It is, Yeah, the conversation in China is about how 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.480 to get it out as fast as possible, as far 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.640 as possible. And they're not just thinking about how do 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.640 we get it into Chinese factories, but also how do 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.320 we get it into Africa, Central Asia, Latin America. And 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.160 so you have a very different conversation when you're going 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.000 around as I did, visiting Chinese factories or going to 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.160 AI consultancies that are looking at ways of bringing this 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.440 into very old fashioned factories. You know, there's not a 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:28.360 whole lot of imaginings about, you know, a sci fi future, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.520 even though there are elements of that beginning to present 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.480 themselves in the present. It's really about, all right, how 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.800 do we go into a brewery, for instance, that's a 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.160 real example, and say how do we take beer production 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.600 and put it into the twenty first century. So it 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.960 is quite striking when you're on the ground these days 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:49.360 about how AI and other technologies feel like they are 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.040 already part of life. 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.720 And it seems to me the energy aspect is a 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.440 huge part of that. We were talking earlier with Jokolin 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.960 from Bank of America talking about the spike we saw 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:00.880 in solar socks week, and he said, part of the 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:02.520 reason is what we're seeing in the Gulf and this 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.880 energy deman and China has been really out ahead on 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.520 energy diversity and we're still seeing this mysterious drop in 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.080 oil imports from China? Is this Are they more able 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.920 to throw their weight behind this and backbuild the infrastructure 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.680 because of just the way they are structured with their government. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.560 They can long term plan in a way that a 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.560 democracy doesn't have to because we change presidents possibly every 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:25.040 four years. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.440 Yeah, this is both the blessing and the curse of 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.360 having a centrally planned system. You know, the blessing, of course, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.080 is when you decide you're all in on all kinds 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.040 of energy, as they have over the course of the 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.240 last generation. They've gone from producing, you know, sof league 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:42.960 like half as much energy as the United States, to 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.040 producing now much more and actually in many cases it's cheaper. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.400 This is partly because they've been able to say from 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.760 the top, this is what we're doing, and then that 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.080 filters down through the system, even down into the localities 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.600 where you get municipal governments that are even on the 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.360 individual level, you have politicians in the Chinese system competing 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.160 for promotions by saying, look, we are investing in solar, 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:10.920 we're investing in nuclear, whatever it is. The downside, of course, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.440 is that when they go off of true north by 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.240 a few degrees and end up on an engineering project 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.800 that turns out to be either out of step with 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.040 market demands or in some cases, like the one child 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.120 policy which I talk about in this piece, something that 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.640 produces a huge range of negative economic consequences, then it's 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.600 very hard to shift that battleship before it can cause 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.680 more damage. So what we're seeing right now is that 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.440 this is the moment when those energy investments have paid off, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.040 and it's been very helpful for them. 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.760 Hevin, you can count me among those who have been 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.880 introduced to the New China through your book and through 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.600 your writing. And I just wondered if you could talk 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.520 a bit about what it was like to return there 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.560 on this reporting trip. I think one of the things 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.440 you observe is kind of the quiet of figing in 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.160 a way that it wasn't before. Because there are so 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.240 many electric vehicle now, the means of transportation has changed. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.080 The means of commerce has changed as well. The storefronts 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.080 are less crowded because people are buying things with apps 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.160 and using delivery services. How different is the new China 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.919 today than the one that you wrote about now, you know, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:13.800 more than a decade ago. 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.160 It's very interesting to see it up close now. I mean, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.239 having lived there for all these years, you kind of 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.040 absorb a certain street level sense of what China is. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.320 And certainly in the first decade of this century, Beijing 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.359 was a kind of a cacafe in as place. It 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.040 was a noisy place, and I mean that in all 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:34.520 senses of the word. You know, it wasn't just that 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.880 the cars were noisy, but also there was a real 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.600 contest of ideas going on, and you would also just 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.040 go into the alleys. I lived in a Hutong house, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.639 and so it was you never quite knew what was 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.040