1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Body dots, but Joseph's gotten more. You know, when you're 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: a parent and you create lives together, it's so thrilling, 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: not just that life that you're holding in your hands, 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: but the prospect of what's going to ap forth from 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: that because the path is uncertain. You never really know 6 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: what path your child is going to take. You look 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: at them, perhaps they're healthy, they seem to be thriving, 8 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: but yet you don't know what waits for them once 9 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: they hit adulthood. But this I do know. They carry 10 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: with them those markers that make them distinctly part of 11 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: a family unit. And these markers that I'm referring to 12 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: go back thousands of years. It's that thread that runs through. 13 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: All of us. 14 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about arguably a very sad case, 15 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: but one where families finally have answers. I'm going to 16 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: talk today about that thread that runs through life that 17 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: one fellow, thinking that he had gotten away with something, 18 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: became entangled in and finally could not escape. I'm Joseph 19 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. Over the years, Dave, 20 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: I've had some interesting holidays with families throughout my life. 21 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: You never know what anybody is going to bring to 22 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: the pot luck. You never know, and not only that, 23 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: you don't know what they're going to walk through the 24 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: door with relative to any kind of baggage they might 25 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: be carrying. And once a year they show up and 26 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: let it rain down. Baby. You know, most of the 27 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: time very positive things, but sometimes sometimes people come dragging 28 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: things in that maybe you're not even aware of. And 29 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: in our case today, we've got two parents who walked 30 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: in and discovered arguably one of the most horrific things 31 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: any parent could bear witness to, and it's about a 32 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: quest that they have had since I don't know, nineteen 33 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: ninety five to try to get answers for and finally 34 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: they've gotten those answers and maybe maybe on some level, 35 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: just just a taste of justice. 36 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know, Joe, when you mentioned that the parents 37 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 2: walked into the nightmare, we've got a thirty one year 38 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: old elementary school teacher who's well thought of, just your 39 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: I don't want to say your average good person, but 40 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: you're talking about somebody Mary Catherine Edwards, who's thirty one 41 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: years old. She's a school teacher, and people like her. 42 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: You know, there's some thirty one year old teachers. People 43 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: won't like you. They just mean or for whatever reason, 44 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: they don't have that personality that draws people in. It 45 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: repels people. She wasn't that person. She was one of 46 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: those people everybody liked. When I look at this, I'm thinking, 47 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: why why do we have to cover a story like this? 48 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: Why does this story exist? Why do people do what 49 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: they do? Because a thirty one year old school teacher 50 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: is last scene alive January thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, her 51 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: parents can't get her on the phone, so they go 52 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: to check on her. I've done that, Joe, I've made 53 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: that drive and call, you know, to go in when 54 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: I couldn't get an adult child on the phone and 55 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: should be able to get a text or on it. Hey, 56 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: just let me know you're okay. And driving over to 57 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 2: the house and not knowing what I'm based on doing 58 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: this show. I don't know what I'm getting into. I'm 59 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: hoping and praying, which thankfully I've never walked into this. 60 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: I've never had to find a child, my child dead 61 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: in a bathtub with her hand with handcuffs on. Yeah, well, 62 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: it goes through a person's head when they see that. Joe, 63 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: You've always as a past You've been there, haven't you. 64 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: Yeah? 65 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: I have. 66 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: And the horrible thing about this is that I reflect 67 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: back on my career and you know, when the medical 68 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: examiner investigator shows up, there's always tape. There's always people 69 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: milling about that are not part of the scene. And 70 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: then you have everybody in uniform or or that everybody's 71 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: got a badge around their neck. 72 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: Okay, stop right there a minute. Yeah, when you walk 73 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: into a scene, I have wrongly assumed until just now 74 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: that when a police officer is called and they see 75 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: what they see, yeah, they stop everything. Everybody out, this 76 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: is a crime scene. Don't touch, get away, and from 77 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 2: there on end there is a run sheet. Just got 78 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: Morgan showed up at one twenty pm? You know, is 79 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: that not what goes on? 80 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is to a great degree. But when you know, 81 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: if you if you've got it like a residence like 82 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: Catherine Somelme's a townhouse, you would have tape on the 83 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: exterior of it. 84 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 2: And that's what you mean by tape. 85 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you'd have tape that kind of surrounds the 86 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: outer perimeter. Because you know what the police are saying 87 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: anytime you see crime scene tape the police are establishing 88 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: a boundary at that point in time, they're saying, Okay, 89 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: on this side is your area. On this side is 90 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: our area, and it's like you you actually, I don't know. 91 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: I can't speak for other investigators, but I remember distinctly 92 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: having a feeling when I would lift the tape and 93 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: step underneath. You feel like you're going through like some 94 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: kind of membrane almost in my mind. That's the way 95 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: I always felt like it, because I knew that the 96 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: world inside that tape is completely different than what's outside. 97 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: And what's fascinating is that you still have people that 98 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: gather about as if it's entertainment, and they'll stand out 99 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: there and they'll watch. And sometimes I've been on crime 100 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: scenes like this where the crowd actually grows. Sometimes crowds 101 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: get angry they, you know, for whatever reason, and they 102 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: are a myriad of reasons. Particularly when you're talking about 103 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: violence that occurs. It makes it kind of scary. So 104 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: and you understand that inside that tape is sure area. 105 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily mean that you're safe inside the tape 106 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: because you stand there and you look and you observe, 107 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, maybe just for a moment, particularly people are yelling, 108 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: carrying on. But it's an interesting thing. You can always spot. 109 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: This has always been my measure day. You can always 110 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: spot the people that are truly vested, and this is 111 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: how you delineate that. You'll hear You'll see people, you know, 112 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: where their arms crossed, standing there, laughing, joking, nudging one another, 113 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: and then over adjacent to that, there'll be somebody weeping. 114 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: And when I say weeping is different to me than 115 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: merely crying. Weeping is kind of a soulful thing, you know, 116 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: where they've experienced something that no one else can really fathom, 117 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: because everybody weeps in their own way. And you can 118 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: always spot individuals that are truly vested. And I'm not 119 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: talking about somebody that you know, starts screaming and yelling 120 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: and carrying on, because lots of times you see that, 121 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: and it's if camera's there in particular, people do that, 122 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: and this is so grotesque. People will actually do that, 123 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: carry on for the camera, and then you find out 124 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: later they even know the people that were inside the 125 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: scene period, and it becomes almost like a floor show 126 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: for them. You know, the lights are on, the cameras 127 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: on that sort of thing. But those that are really 128 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: really touched and harmed by this. You can see it. 129 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's done quietly, you know. There are countless, countless 130 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: numbers of times where I've seen moms, mothers, and fathers 131 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: huddle together crying, maybe even laying flat on the ground 132 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: just weeping, you know, and not knowing what to do 133 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: next at all. And with Catherine's case, we you know, 134 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: you'd have to transport yourself back to nineteen ninety five 135 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: to get an idea of this. What would have been 136 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: that visceral reaction on the part of the parents, you know, 137 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: because when they entered in to Catherine's residence because she 138 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: had was not answering phone calls. She had last been 139 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: seen on a Friday. I think it was in January 140 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety five, last been seen on a Friday. 141 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: She's obviously got contact with her family that care about her, 142 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: and she's not responding to phone calls. Well, that's when 143 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: the parents say, Hey, we're gonna, you know, hop in 144 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: our car. They lived in Beaumont, Texas. We're gonna hop 145 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: in our car and we're gonna make our way over 146 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: there and we're going to see you know, why didn't 147 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: our baby girl? You know, answering the phone, and you know, 148 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: you walk in. I mean, I've got keys to my 149 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: children's home, not because I asked for them, but because 150 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: they offered them to me. In the event that something happened, 151 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: I could show up at their house, open the door, 152 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: and go take care of anything for them. And that's 153 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: probably the case here with Katherine. She's grown one one 154 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: years old day. 155 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and the parents do exactly you said. They 156 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: drove over, unlocked the door and look for her. I'm 157 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: sure they're calling out for her and still no answer, 158 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: and they walk home where is she? And they find 159 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: her in the bathtub. Now finding a loved one in 160 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: the bathtub, I can't imagine what that is like. But 161 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: knowing you're seeing your child in the bathtub drowned, but 162 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: handcuffs on, that immediately tells you she did not do 163 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: this by accident. She didn't slip and bump her head 164 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: and drown in the tub. Something else has happened because 165 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: she got handcuffs on. That tells you that somebody else 166 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: is involved. My first thought is are they still in 167 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: the house? 168 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, that and that's a terrifying thought. You know 169 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: where and you're hoping well, listen. You know, by the 170 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: time when the parents would show up at Catherine's home 171 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: at her townhouse, they're not to the best of my knowledge, 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: they're not police officers that know how to go through 173 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: a scene and clear it. And that's what police generally do, 174 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: where they will walk through the house, clear it and 175 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: make sure that no one is in there that could 176 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: do harm to them. Okay, it's not the parents' responsibility. 177 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: You know, they're there and they're finding their daughter, and 178 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: what a horrible sight for them to behold firsthand. Remember, 179 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: they're what we refer to in medical legal death terms 180 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: as the finders, and that's a specific that's a specific 181 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: name that we give the individuals that actually physically discover bodies. 182 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: So they're the finders at this point in time, it's 183 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: still upon them to reach out and get nine one one. 184 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: Now nineteen ninety five, Yeah, people had cell phones, but 185 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: more than likely you're talking about a wall phone perhaps 186 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: or a phone that's sitting in a cradle somewhere inside 187 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: of Catherine's home where they would have to go and 188 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: initiate a nine to eleven call to speak into that 189 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: receiver that their daughter had last spoken into. Just let 190 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: that settle in just for a moment when you begin 191 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: to think about this and to summon nine to eleven. 192 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how, and I've tried to factor this 193 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: over the many years, how you can even form words, 194 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: and many times it just comes out. You hear these 195 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: and I know you've heard a lot of them, Dave. 196 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: You hear these nine to eleven calls where it just 197 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: sounds like people are just kind of violently vomiting, I 198 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: don't know, into the phone and it makes sense of 199 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: anything that they're saying. I don't know how you would 200 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: form words? How do you explain it? And I would 201 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: submit to you that even to this very day, that 202 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: words are still difficult to form. For the family of 203 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: Mary Katherine Edwards when it comes to her murder, what 204 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: would be the motivation for perpetrating such a horrific act 205 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: upon a young teacher, Mary Katherine Edwards? Why would someone 206 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: choose her? Because this is a choice. This is not 207 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: like this is a dark alley somewhere. It's not like 208 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: you're out in a national forest somewhere where some stranger 209 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: comes walking up on your campsite. Know this individual that 210 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: perpetrated his crime had familiarity, They were aware of the existence. 211 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: Her home was not chosen at random, and we have 212 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: to keep this in mind as well. Dave. You know 213 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: this individual that showed up at her home, he showed 214 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: up with handcuffs, right with handcuffs. And it's very interesting 215 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: to me because I'll go ahead and tell you this 216 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: is a sadistic sexual assault homicide and it is sexually motivated. 217 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: And the bathtub plays into this. I think that goes 218 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: to awareness on the part of the perpetrator. Why would 219 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: he do this in the bathroom adjacent to a tub. Well, 220 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: I have I have my own my own thoughts about this, 221 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: but I can tell you it does. It does demonstrate 222 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: something about this individual that they knew what they were doing. 223 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: They're not disorganized, they were aware that there's potential they 224 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: could leave evidence behind. I just don't think that they 225 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: really considered the molecular evidence that they might leave behind. 226 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: You know, Joe, we have become accustomed to talking about 227 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: DNA and running different DNA genealogy things where you know, 228 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: we're able to tie things together and I oftentimes you 229 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: can find a lot out. I believe in the first 230 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: minutes of a nine one one call. On that call, 231 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: she says to the nine one one person that answers, 232 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: you have to come to my sister's house. The sister, 233 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: Mary Ann Edwards says, we came over here and found her. 234 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:03,479 Speaker 2: She's been handcuffed and tortured. Now, seeing somebody in handcuffs 235 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: in a bathtub doesn't necessarily immediately leap to torture unless 236 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: you're looking at them and you can see something horrible 237 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: is going on, because handcuffs can be used. There are 238 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: the sexual handcuffs, the ones that are furry and stuff 239 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: like that that I've seen in pictures, and those are 240 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: for playtime. And then you have handcuffs that are there 241 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: not to be comfortable, but to restrain you and prevent 242 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: you from being able to do anything. And that's what 243 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: was going on here. 244 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're absolutely right about the handcuffs, because handcuffs 245 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: themselves can actually be torture devices. The tighter you get 246 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: to and I've actually seen this demonstrated before on the 247 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: surface of skin at autopsy where people have been handcuffed 248 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: and they are handcuffs so tightly that you'll see almost 249 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: an Brasian ring that runs the circumference of the wrist, 250 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: and it's they're so tight that the skin begins to 251 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: get rubbed raw. So yeah, this is not something that 252 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: is necessarily going to be for play. And here's one 253 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: other thing that I believe that they saw with Catherine, 254 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: and this is it. She had bruises all over her body, Dave. 255 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 1: I think all told it was over thirty And you know, 256 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: that's hard to explain away. And I think that's probably 257 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why one might say tortured, because 258 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: why would you need to strike somebody that many times? 259 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: And also if she's partially in the tub, one of 260 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: the questions I would have is was she being held 261 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: down beneath the water while her lower body is outside 262 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: of the tub and this individual, this monster, is having 263 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: their way with them. That gives you an idea of 264 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: the dynamic that was going on in this environment, and 265 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: you have to think, you know, well, why is it 266 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: that he could gain access to her, Dave? Because I 267 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: got to tell you, man, if I'm looking at this, 268 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: I want to know who is in her immediate circle. 269 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: I want to know who is it out there that 270 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: would have it in for this precious soul that would 271 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: show up with such violence in mind? Has she done 272 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: something to this individual? To elicit such behavior. Was it 273 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: an intimate relationship gone wrong? And first off, how would 274 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: this individual even know where she lived? Dave. I think 275 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: that that's an interesting area to kind of explore, if 276 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: you're an investigator, to think about who would do this, 277 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: where she might live in an area that's not prone 278 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: to violence, particularly this level of sexual violence like this. 279 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 1: It's perpetrated upon her because this is the stuff of 280 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: nightmares that we're seeing here. 281 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a better explanation for that. 282 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: This is the stuff of nightmares, not just for her family, 283 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: but for I think about the officers that get on site, 284 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: you know, and immediately bring you know, when you and 285 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: I are talking about a story, we bring our own 286 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: personal family things and friends and relationships. We bring all 287 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: of that into the discussion to say I used to 288 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: I did the same thing, blah blah blah. And in 289 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: this case, I'm thinking about those officers. This is a 290 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: thirty one year old school teacher who apparently has no enemies, 291 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: you know, and to have this happen to an innocent 292 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: soul like that is crushing and scary. It can if 293 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: it happens to her, it can happen to anyone. And 294 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, this is probably somebody she knew. So 295 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: if you're going to start looking at those people, what 296 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: are you going to find? How do you start looking 297 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: at them? Joe? 298 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is this is before the day. Hey, look, 299 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: this is before the days of social media. Man, right now, 300 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: you fop the switch and you go and you look, 301 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: you look and see. And she's a school teacher too, 302 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: so you're thinking, well, she she touches a lot of 303 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: lives right now. I don't mean that in like a 304 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: touchy feely way. I'm saying the fact that she is 305 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: if she's concentrically oriented in her classroom. For every student 306 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: that she has, they have a parent. Outside of that parent, 307 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: they have grandparents, you know. And then you've got the 308 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: school staff. You know, who works at the school, who 309 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: knows her? Does she go to church anywhere? Who knows 310 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: her at the church? Does she does she frequent a 311 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: particular market when she goes shopping, those sorts of things 312 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: where she filled her car up with gas. You know, 313 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: it's today it's a bit simpler in the sense I 314 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: think our this generation of investigator is one of the 315 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: first things you're going to do, particularly with a case 316 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: like this, you're going to write social media. You want 317 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: to see what kind of accounts they have, who are they, 318 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, linked to through all of those accounts, and 319 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: is there anybody on there are there any comments on 320 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: social media? But this is nineteen ninety five. That hadn't 321 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: even that wasn't even really a thought in anybody's brain 322 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: at that point in time. But when you know, when 323 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: this occurred, they knew from the beginning that they had 324 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: a sexual assault Dave, something that would have led them 325 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: to understand that you had a real monster out there. 326 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: And when she is autopsied and her determination of cause 327 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: of death at initially was listed as drowning and asphyxia. 328 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: In addition to making that diagnosis, they would have also 329 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: have done a rape kit on her. And that rape 330 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: kit is precious cargo. And I'll tell you why, because 331 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: you're dealing with an unknown So you have to do 332 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: everything that you possibly can and the more to keep 333 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: that kit as pristine as you possibly can, and to 334 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: go as deep with this thing as you possibly can, 335 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: to collect every bit of evidence that you can, all 336 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: of the swaps that are used. There would have even 337 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: been special care taken in the transportation of her remains. 338 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: If you have a sexual assault case, most of the 339 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: time what we will do is when remains are placed 340 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: into delivery, and that's what it is referred to as 341 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: at not hers, but it's referred to in our world 342 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: as delivery vehicle l I V E R Y. You 343 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: transport with the feet higher than the head. And the 344 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: reason that's done is that if there is anything like 345 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: seminal fluid, you're not going to lose it, and so 346 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: you keep them in this position until you can get 347 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: them to the Morgan in order to do the examination. 348 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. They uncovered something at this autopsy. 349 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: Aside from her cause of death and the examination of 350 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: the restraints that she was in and the examination of 351 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: all of this trauma that she had been subjected to, 352 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: they recovered something back in nineteen ninety five that existed 353 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: and was protected to present day because what they discovered 354 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: it is going to be the key that unlocks this door. Dave. 355 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: I've gone through a couple of class reunions now, and 356 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: you always wonder what became of those that you walk 357 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: across the stage with on that fateful night all those 358 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: many years ago. You never know what kind of twist 359 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: and turns. Anybody's life is going to take. And the 360 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: thing about the death of Catherine is that they're in Beaumont, 361 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: which is not a tiny town. It's a rather robust location, 362 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, known for oil refineries and this sort of 363 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: thing down in southeast Tech just across the Louisiana border 364 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: on it. You you think about this location, people are 365 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: going to know one another. And when you go to 366 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: high school, people remember you from back then. And a 367 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: lot of people that I'm sure that went to high 368 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: school in Beaumont, they went off to college, that came 369 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: back to Beaumont and they worked, and I think that 370 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: that's probably what had happened with Mary. Catherine in her 371 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: pursuit of a teaching degree, came back, got a job, 372 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that people that had gone to high 373 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: school with her were aware that she was in town. 374 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: But it turns out that there was there was somebody 375 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: that was aware of her because as time went by, 376 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: they were able to take that rape kit, Dave and 377 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: make an identification in this case. 378 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: Now, from the very beginning told you she was found 379 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: in a bathtub and drowning was listed as part of 380 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 2: the cause of death. Right, Yes, but there's only four 381 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: to five inches of water in the tub. When I 382 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: hear four to five inches, I'm thinking that's not very much. 383 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: And Mike, I'm really curious about this because I actually 384 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: looking at four to five inches of water in the 385 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 2: tub and then placing a body in there, it is 386 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 2: going to be a substantial amount of water. And I 387 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: am going to assume in this why I'm asking you, Joe, 388 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: did the suspect here the killer? Did he put her 389 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 2: in the bathtub to wash away fluids? Was that the 390 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: purpose of putting her or because she was still alive? 391 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: Obviously if they can list drowning, right, you can't drown 392 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 2: a dead body, So she's still alive when she goes 393 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: in there, maybe unconscious. 394 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: Perhaps I think that the use of the water in 395 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: the tub, even though it's a it's a smaller amount 396 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: than what she would normally think about when it comes 397 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: down to drowning. I think that it's it's a twofold 398 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: purpose perhaps, uh. And those purposes are to use this 399 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: as a method in order to drown someone. And I'm 400 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: talking about a homicidal drowning, which are pretty rare. It's 401 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: not something you see on a regular basis. And then 402 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: the other part is it could be argued that he 403 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: had done this in order to cleanse the body. 404 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: Will it we'll putting water in there? Will it work? 405 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: I guess it could. And most of the time, if 406 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: you depended upon the if there is a seminal deposit, 407 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: that's going to require a bit more work. If you're 408 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: trying to flush the body of any kind of of 409 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: of evidence, seminal evidence that you're trying to hide from anybody, 410 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: it would be very, very painstaking in order to do this. 411 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: And I can't imagine that someone that had perpetrated this 412 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: kind of crime would want to stay there that long. Afterwards, 413 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: there's a certain level of discomfort because if you have 414 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: an individual that comes in, you have to imagine them 415 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: this way. They're in a sexual frenzy. Now, they may 416 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: have planned everything up to a particular point. You know, 417 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: they're fantasizing about it and all this sort of thing. 418 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: But once they've gotten past that point and they've achieved 419 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: this horrific goal, then why would they hang around. They 420 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: won't try to put as much distance between themselves. And obviously, 421 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: in this case, if he had that water in that 422 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: tub in order to cleanse her body. He failed miserably 423 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: because when they did this rape exam, they were able 424 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: to actually find viable, viable sample within her. The problem 425 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: is is that, and I think that this is pretty 426 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: widely understood, but where we were with DNA technology, and 427 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: it did exist. Where we were with DNA technology back 428 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, you couldn't climb that mountain, okay. 429 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: And it's not that you couldn't do a profile on somebody. 430 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: If you did a profile on somebody, what are you 431 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: going to do with it? You know, what are you 432 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: going to compare it to? And that's another problem that 433 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: you run into with these older cases like this. You know, 434 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: we we have forensic genetic genealogy now, but the road, 435 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, back then, they didn't even cross. You know, 436 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: no one was really thinking about this sort of thing 437 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: back during that period of time. And so when you 438 00:29:53,920 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: have individuals like authorm Labs, they're into exis actually up 439 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: in the woodlands. It's the whole new world opens up 440 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: to you. And they'd had to sing shell for years. 441 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they weren't actively working it because 442 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: it was a cold case. 443 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: Go it heitded that end, it goes cold. 444 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: So what are you going to do at this point? Well, 445 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: you know, the Beaumont Police Department, along with the Texas 446 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: Rangers who got involved in this case specifically, they kind 447 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: of came to their wits end, and I think but 448 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: they said, you know what, we've got this viable rape kit. 449 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: Is there anything that we can do with this in 450 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: order to try to narrow this down any way that 451 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: we can take a longer look at. And I think 452 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: that they concluded finally, you know, they had initially sent 453 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: it out to I think cell I think it was 454 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: called cell Mark, which was I think it was a 455 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: New Jersey based operation, and they required more of a 456 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: sample and they were kind of the first people that 457 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: began to do all this stuff. They couldn't do anything 458 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: with it. But when they got this data, this sample 459 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: to David Mettleman at authrom Uh, he put his team 460 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: on it. And our good friend Sharah, Sharah LaPoint, she's 461 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: a genealogist, she began to work on this case as well. 462 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: And I'll go ahead and make a big reveal here 463 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: she actually testified in this trial, because yeah, Shara did, 464 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: she sure did, and with that beautiful Cajun French accent, 465 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: and she testified in this trial, and her conclusion was 466 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: she was able to track down not just the maternal line, 467 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: but also the paternal line and find a marriage here 468 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: that produced the perpetrator. And of course, in the particular case, 469 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: the perpetrator in this case turned out to be a 470 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: fellow named Clayton Foreman Dave that apparently had known had 471 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: known Mayor Katherine Edwards for a protracted period of time. 472 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 2: She actually was in his wedding, Joe. She was actually 473 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: a bridesmaid when he got married. They did know one another, 474 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 2: and yeah, Clayton Foreman. Clayton Foreman popped up on the radar, Joe, 475 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: because he had a rape charge from nineteen eighty one. 476 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: He pleaded guilty to this rape of a fellow high 477 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 2: school classmate. 478 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: What you know, it goes back to this old idea 479 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: that we're always going on about our I am of 480 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, you're in more danger with people that you 481 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: know than the ones that you don't know. And everybody has, 482 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, kind of a Scooby Doo view of the 483 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: world where there's some kind of ghost or goblin waiting 484 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: around down a dark alley. And I'm not saying that 485 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: they don't exist. But what I'm saying is there has 486 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: to be a reason why somebody is going to do 487 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: this level of harm to you, and why they're going 488 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: to target you in particular. And Lord only knows what's 489 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: going through anybody's mind at this particular time. But you 490 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: know the proofs in the pudding here, Dave. You know, 491 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: because he, like you said, he did in fact have 492 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: he had been convicted of a rape. 493 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 2: But you know you mentioned the proximity of the individual 494 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: in the person in the connection. In his case, he 495 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: runs into this his first victim in eighty one at 496 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: a gas station or cars broken down, and he actually 497 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 2: because they did know one another, they had gone to 498 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 2: school together, that immediately relaxed her. He's offering her help. 499 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 2: You know, it was raining, her car's broken down, he 500 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 2: offers her a ride home. Totally innocent. I'm gonna be 501 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: honest with you, Joe. I think if my daughter was 502 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: broken down at the gas station and it's raining and 503 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: she needs to lift home, Yeah, and she saw somebody 504 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 2: she went to school with shedp in the car, why 505 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: not you know the person right? 506 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: And we're not you know, it's not like this is 507 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: we're pointing a finger at the victim. Just it's what 508 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: your comfort level is. That's what I'm saying. My daughter 509 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: would do this, you know, either one offence has come down. 510 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: I think anybody would because you're going to take you 511 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: know who, who would think that somebody that you had 512 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: known for all of these years, first off, take this 513 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: kind of chance to perpetrate this kind of crime because 514 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: they're going to be known. That's why I think that 515 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: in this particular case, he had to kill her. He 516 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: had to dave. He didn't have a choice, but you know. 517 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 2: Because of the eighty one rape where he got probation. 518 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: Right, and also she would be familiar with him. She 519 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: saw his face, she'd say, oh, yeah, yeah, that's you 520 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: know I was. I was in this guy's wedding. You know, 521 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: she had escaped. In some this is a this is 522 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: a heck of a risk he's taken here because if 523 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: in fact, she had gotten away and he was not 524 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: masked up at that point in time where he's covering 525 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: his face, she's going to know who this guy is. 526 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: And who knows if he said anything during the midst 527 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: of it as well. So all of a sudden, something 528 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: that has become a or that was for him, a 529 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: sexual fantasy, a violent sexual fantasy that he wanted to 530 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: to you know, live out kind of you know, ends 531 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: in this brutal homicide of the young woman. 532 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: When they send the DNA out and there I'm going 533 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 2: to assume, and you can corroborate this that when the 534 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,479 Speaker 2: police investigated in ninety five, that they did a good 535 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 2: job of collecting evidence and keeping that evidence stored properly 536 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 2: so it could be tested. Yes, at this because that 537 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five we had just come out of 538 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 2: the oj Simpson trial. And that's kind of a point. 539 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: Of it's a watershed moment. 540 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is in DNA. We learned a lot about 541 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 2: DNA then and knowing and by you know, every month 542 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 2: it seems like there's growth, you know, in what can 543 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: be found from DNA, and it has really grown to 544 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 2: the point now where we have even things like touch 545 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 2: DNA that are being brought up. But when they stored 546 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: that in ninety five, was that a conscious effort on 547 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: their part, Hey, we need to make sure all of 548 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 2: this is bang up job in case, you know, we 549 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: don't solve this. I mean, what are they thinking in 550 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five when they're getting the evidence together and 551 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 2: storing these. 552 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, I know myself, I don't 553 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: think think that thinking back to the person I was 554 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five, I don't know if I would 555 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: have thought that we would be in the position we're 556 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: in today relative to DNA. I don't think that anybody 557 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: could have predicted it. But you always because you do 558 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: have evidence there, and it's it's really something you know, 559 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: when they do, like when they do smears on slides, 560 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: when you do like a swabbing from within the body 561 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: and you do the smear on the slot on the slides, 562 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: one of the things you're looking for is first off, 563 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: the presence of semen. Secondly or the sperm there, and 564 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: is is there any motility to the sperm, Like do 565 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: you have somebody that's out there that is impotent that 566 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe only a couple of the sperm 567 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: are moving, or you have this kind of robust thing, 568 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: because sometimes that can go to you know, sexual frustration 569 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: that feeds into the cycle life, you know, whatever the 570 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: case might be. But that's a specific identifier or it 571 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: was in the past relative to us, and of course 572 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: with you know, the really one of the things that 573 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: we would go with back then, was you're the big 574 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: term was secretor was the individual secretor? And what that 575 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: means is that there's certain percentages of population that leaches 576 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:28,879 Speaker 1: out red blood cells into semen, saliva, fecal matter, all 577 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And when you get when you 578 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: can isolate those droplets, you can do blood typing, is 579 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: what it comes down to. But that's that's such a 580 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: narrow spectrum. Now you know, you can have somebody like 581 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: AUTHORM that's going to take that sample and they're going 582 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,959 Speaker 1: to identify the sample, and then they're going to bring 583 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: in their team of genetic genealogists and look at this 584 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: thing and they'll be able to form a tree out 585 00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: of this and really give you an idea as to 586 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: putting you on the right path. And that's what happened 587 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: in this case. They were able to go back in 588 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 1: time and specifically see where Foreman had come from. 589 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: Are they linking them together saying how did did Foreman? 590 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 2: Or no, because they don't know for me, who did 591 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: the victim? Know? Did they start with her and go 592 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 2: out from there with what? Now they have to suspect 593 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 2: DNA and they're breaking that down and they're trying to 594 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: build that family tree, and then they connect the dot 595 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: to this cousin or that uncle or whatever and then say, hey, 596 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: wait a minute, they both attended the same high school. 597 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, they would do it backwards. They would not. They 598 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: would look at it from the perspective that mayor Catherine 599 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: would not have. They have no way of knowing if 600 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: she would have known the individual. What they're looking for 601 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: is a pattern here where they can say, Okay, we've 602 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: got this line, the father's line, and we have the 603 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: mother's line right here, based upon the DNA sample to have, 604 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: and then they narrow it down, and interestingly enough, they did. 605 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: They actually did a trash pull on this guy. They 606 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: were sitting on it. 607 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: They once they figured out who he was. 608 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then so they validate what they have, Okay, right, 609 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: that they had collected Dave all the way back in 610 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, what they had collected all the way 611 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: back then, and then marry that up with this person 612 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: that they suspected they signed on him and finally affected 613 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: and arrest. Yeah. 614 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: The necessity to do the trash pull is because they 615 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 2: had the DNA and had it broken down by when 616 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 2: they had a good idea of who this was based on, 617 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 2: because they didn't they had the DNA, but they also 618 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 2: had all the other investigation that went into it of 619 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 2: trying to figure out who people, you know, what people knew, whoever. 620 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 2: And so he's a suspect, but they don't have his 621 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 2: they don't know they have his DNA. They have to 622 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 2: prove it. So they camp out of his house, they 623 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: grab trash, they run DNA on, they run a test 624 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 2: on that for DNA, and they get it and it's 625 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: an exact match to what they had from the apartment 626 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five. 627 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have to go back in this case. 628 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm particularly fascinated in this particular case by a gentleman 629 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: named Charles Harvey. And at the time of Mary Catherine's death, 630 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: he was the board certified forensic pathologist. He's a guy 631 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 1: that said, you know, well, she's got thirty six bruises 632 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: on her, she's got abrasions on her, and he he 633 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: had described the blunt force trauma and all this sort 634 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: of thing. But you know, Dave it, it begins with 635 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: him at the autopsy because he's the guy that would 636 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: have initiated the rape kit, the sexual assault kit. And 637 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: we call him rape kits for short, but the sexual 638 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: assaul on her body at that particular time, it is 639 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: because the steps that he took all the way back 640 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five. And if that's not fascinating enough, Dave, 641 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: when doctor Charles Harvey testified, he had to testify via 642 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: zoom because he's he's actually in frail health now and 643 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: he's in declining health and he's in a retirement home. 644 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: But he gave such a detailed description about what he 645 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,399 Speaker 1: found at that autopsy, even the state that he's in 646 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: right now via zoom. Can you imagine this being in 647 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: the courtroom and you see him and he's now, you know, 648 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: all these years later being able to offer up. And 649 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, he discounted, And this goes back to what 650 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: you had said earlier, Dave. He discounted this idea of 651 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: her drowning. I think initially he said that it was 652 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: common of drowning and asphyxia, Okay, asphyxia meaning something different 653 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: than drowning, like you know, choking or smothering and this 654 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And he's now changed his ruling. At 655 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: this point in time, he thinks that the death is 656 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: consistent with restraint asphyxia, which will You can have this 657 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: in any number of ways. First off, obviously there has 658 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: to be restraint involved. In her case, we have handcuffs 659 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: and it goes to it's almost like a positional asphixia. 660 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: But just imagine you're somebody that is bent over a bathtub, 661 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: your hands are handcuffed behind your back, You've got this 662 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: great weight pressing down on you. Your diaphragm can't function 663 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: like it normally does to help you blow out air, 664 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,919 Speaker 1: and then you have to be able to breathe in 665 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: and the individual will enter into this kind of shallow 666 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: breathing phase and become disoriented that sort of thing, and 667 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: then as the compression continues, the shallow breathing will eventually 668 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 1: lead to an event that you're in an unrecoverable flat 669 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 1: spin where you know, you actually eventually go into cardiac arrest. 670 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: And that's what he was dealing with. So it's even 671 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: more more horrific. I think in what the doctor is 672 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,879 Speaker 1: describing what Mary Catherine went to or went through, that 673 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily wrap his hands around her neck and 674 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: squeeze the life out of her. No, this was something 675 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: far more horrific. He's actually probably on top of her 676 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: or kneeling on top of her and preventing her from breathing. 677 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,720 Speaker 1: And you know, just think about it right now, wherever 678 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: you are, if you can move your hands around and 679 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: you have a great weight on your back, at least 680 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: you can tilt your body in this way or that way. 681 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:10,720 Speaker 1: Not Mary Catherine's case, but the one bit of hope 682 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: that is in this case. First off, there's hope that 683 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: other cases like this can be solved. There's the hope 684 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: that the family will get some relief from these answers 685 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: that they now have. But there's also the chance that 686 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: somewhere out there there are other cases like this that 687 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,319 Speaker 1: are equally horrific, where the folks at AUTHORM can lend 688 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: a hand and hopefully bring an end to the suffering 689 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: of many families out there who just never know. If 690 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: you're interested in Authorm and what they're doing, I urge 691 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 1: each and every one of you to visit DNA solves 692 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 1: dot com. That's d NA s O l v E 693 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: s dot com. If you're interested in cases that are ongoing, 694 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: if you're interested in making even the slightest contribution to them, 695 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: every bit helps. These are self funded. You don't have 696 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: there's not a huge governmental organization that's dumping funds into this. 697 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: This is a grassroots effort to get those names on 698 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: the name of database, clear it out, and also to 699 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: clear out codis as well. I think that it might 700 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: be one of the most noble things that's going out there, 701 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: So again, if you have questions, if you're interested, please 702 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: check out DNA solves dot com. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 703 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybuck