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Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through

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Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and

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Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners,

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Speaker 1: old listeners. Wherever you are in the world, it is

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here. Back for another episode

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Speaker 1: as we, of course break down the Psychology of Your twenties. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about ADHD. Getting diagnosed with ADHD

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Speaker 1: as an adult can feel like both a revelation and

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Speaker 1: a bit of a reckoning. It's this moment when everything

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Speaker 1: about how you've moved through the world probably makes a

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Speaker 1: lot more sense, but you also now have to learn

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Speaker 1: all these new ways to manage. This is exactly the

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Speaker 1: experience of today's guest, Chris Wang. She's the founder of Shimmer.

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Speaker 1: It's an ADHD coaching platform that has helped thousands of

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Speaker 1: adults better understand their brains. And she herself was diagnosed

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Speaker 1: in her twenties after years of feeling like she was

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Speaker 1: kind of doing life wrong. And the thing is her

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Speaker 1: story is actually not a unique one. I've heard from

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Speaker 1: so many of you who have had the same experience,

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Speaker 1: been through the same process. So today I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to her about practical strategies for managing your time,

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Speaker 1: energy focus, managing ADHD in your twenties, especially when traditional

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Speaker 1: productivity advice maybe hasn't ever worked for you. I also

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Speaker 1: want to explore love and dating with ADHD, why relationships

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Speaker 1: can feel so intense, so confusing or addictive, how to

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Speaker 1: handle romantic rejection but also just rejection in general, and

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Speaker 1: how to feel like you're not too much in a

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Speaker 1: world that is asking everybody to be a lot smaller.

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Speaker 1: I love this conversation, so without further ado, let's get

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Speaker 1: into it. Chris Wang, welcome to the show. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. You're an absolute icon.

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Speaker 1: I'm sick. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and what

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Speaker 1: you do. I feel like I gave a little introduction before,

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Speaker 1: but I'm like, you can say it in your own words,

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Speaker 1: in the better words. Probably.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's better, but I'm Chris. I'm

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Speaker 2: the co founder and CEO of Shimmer. I am also

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Speaker 2: a late diagnos adhder, so I was diagnosed with ADHD

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty eight, which I know we'll get

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Speaker 2: into that a little bit, but it's been a whirlwind

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Speaker 2: of a journey navigating that diagnosis while creating Shimmer, which

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Speaker 2: is a behavioral support platform, and as of date we've

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Speaker 2: done seventy five thousand coaching sessions, which is really exciting

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Speaker 2: just thinking about how many people have with ADHD have

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Speaker 2: been a part of our journey, and many of them

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Speaker 2: are late diagnosed as well. And the last piece is

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Speaker 2: along the journey this is very ADHD as well. Usually

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Speaker 2: things kind of unfold. I have become an ADHD creator

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Speaker 2: as well, so I started off by posting just My

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Speaker 2: first series was ADHD Girl Hacks, so posting hacks that

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Speaker 2: I've gleaned through my coaching journey and also those of

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Speaker 2: the thousands of other folks who have gone through our

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Speaker 2: platform but since then have done ADHD goal works, adh

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Speaker 2: gold Dates and ADHD goal fields. So I know we'll

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Speaker 2: get into tips and things like that afterwards, but it's

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Speaker 2: been a little bit of a journey since that diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to hear about ADHD girld dates. That's

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Speaker 1: like something I'm particularly interested in hearing. But this definitely

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Speaker 1: won't surprise you. It did surprise me how many people

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Speaker 1: reach out to me with a similar story of like,

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Speaker 1: I had all of these difficulties well actually, like sometimes

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Speaker 1: even a lack of difficulties when I was at school,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly I became an adult, and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the things that people had ignored or that I

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Speaker 1: like worked really hard to mask, like kind of came

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Speaker 1: to the surface and here I was at twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, twenty nine, like basically discovering a new aspect

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Speaker 1: of my identity and of how I operate. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your story and maybe

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Speaker 1: like what it felt like, Oh, how it was growing up?

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Speaker 1: Did you feel different and when you maybe realized that

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Speaker 1: like there was a label for this or a series

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Speaker 1: of symptoms that could kind of explain it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I will first preface by saying that people's AHD

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Speaker 2: looks really different, and I'm glad you're asking for individual stories,

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Speaker 2: because I think sometimes it's very easy to hear a

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Speaker 2: story and not hear yourself in it, or hear a

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Speaker 2: story and do hear yourself in it and feel like

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Speaker 2: you either don't have it HD or have it HD.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's really important to learn about the symptoms,

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Speaker 2: learn about the different ways the symptoms can coexist with

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Speaker 2: each other, and also go through that process yourself. And

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Speaker 2: I also will want to say if your listeners haven't

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Speaker 2: really dug into ADHD. There's also three types of ADHD,

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Speaker 2: and I'll share which one I am as well. But

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Speaker 2: there's the hyperactive impulsive ADHD, which are folks who as

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Speaker 2: a kid were kind of bouncing off of wall, super talkative,

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Speaker 2: probably getting into trouble, and as adults generally won't look

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Speaker 2: as disruptive, but maybe it's chatty, maybe it's more internally

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Speaker 2: being more hyperactive, and so that's kind of on the

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Speaker 2: hyperactive impulsive side. And then there's the inattentive side, which

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Speaker 2: is the other type that generally a lot of the

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Speaker 2: times women will have and girls will have which a

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Speaker 2: lot of the times when you're younger, will be internally

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Speaker 2: presenting as well. So those are the daydreamers, the ones

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Speaker 2: who maybe as an adult struggle to follow conversations or

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Speaker 2: get lost in your own daydreams in your head, and

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Speaker 2: so that inattentive ADHD will look really different from the

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Speaker 2: hyperactive ADHDER. And the third type, which is the type

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Speaker 2: that I am fortunately or unfortunately, is the combined type.

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Speaker 2: So that's when you have symptoms from both sides. And

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Speaker 2: so when you meet someone who has ADHD, they could

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Speaker 2: look really different if they just fall within those three buckets,

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Speaker 2: but also if they have other sorts of intersectionalities and

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Speaker 2: co occurrences with other mental health conditions. So I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to preface that. And so for me, I have

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Speaker 2: all the most of the symptoms, but specifically the ones

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Speaker 2: that were the most salient. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: was definitely on the hyperactive side. I was super talkative.

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Speaker 2: I was constantly distracting people around me. I was always

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Speaker 2: being told I was too loud or just to sit

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Speaker 2: down or be quiet, just constantly in the way. I

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Speaker 2: think as I grew up, I've been thinking about this

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Speaker 2: a lot. I think I've heard a lot of stories

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Speaker 2: of folks who their self confidence and anxiety just really

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Speaker 2: increases over time, especially as girls. And so there's actually

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Speaker 2: the stat that people with ADHD here twenty thousand more

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Speaker 2: negative messages by the time that they're ten years old

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Speaker 2: in comparison to their non ADHD peers, which is pretty significant.

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Speaker 2: And you can imagine, especially if you don't have the

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Speaker 2: right support system or other ways that you feel confidence,

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Speaker 2: that that would yield just a lower self perception, lower goals,

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Speaker 2: and just the way that you move through life is

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Speaker 2: going to be really different. And so getting support and

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Speaker 2: getting at least awareness and acknowledgment that you are different

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Speaker 2: and you will navigate things differently as a kid, I

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Speaker 2: think is super super important. I was lucky in that

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Speaker 2: a mix of I think being Asian and having a

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Speaker 2: really strong emphasis of my parents on grades and being smart.

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Speaker 2: I did get good grades and that helped me build

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Speaker 2: a sense of confidence when I was younger. So even

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Speaker 2: though I was getting kicked out of class all the

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Speaker 2: time I got suspended, the impact on me as a

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Speaker 2: kid actually wasn't as strong. And you'll hear all sorts

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Speaker 2: of different stories, I think for me when we think

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Speaker 2: about diagnosis, the impact didn't get really strong for me

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Speaker 2: until I became an adult and all of those kind

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Speaker 2: of structures and goals kind of fell off. It was

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Speaker 2: actually when I first started my business, and I when

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Speaker 2: we were in the pandemic and so everything was online

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Speaker 2: and I was not able to get a lot of

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Speaker 2: that visual and physical stimulation from other people. And then two,

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Speaker 2: I was an entrepreneur and not only was I creating

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Speaker 2: structures for myself, but I was expected to create structures

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Speaker 2: for other people as well, And that for me was

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Speaker 2: when everything started kind of crumbling. And it took me

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Speaker 2: that long to actually realize that all of these symptoms

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Speaker 2: related to were related to ADHD. And a big part

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Speaker 2: of that also came from my cultural upbringing of not

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Speaker 2: talking about mental health and not talking about ADHD since

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Speaker 2: I was a kid. And there's I think it's called

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Speaker 2: like the rule of seven, where is a marketing thing

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Speaker 2: where a consumer needs to see like seven ats. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's kind of similar with my ADHD.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend told me, tell me maybe I

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Speaker 2: have ADHD because he has AHD. I had Instagram for

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Speaker 2: you page was getting at me, and so I really

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Speaker 2: just started seeing it from here and there. So it

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Speaker 2: was a very nonlinear journey to finally thinking, oh, maybe

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Speaker 2: it's this and then once then you go down the

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Speaker 2: rabbit hole. Or I went down the rabbit hole and

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Speaker 2: started researching, and that's what led me to my diagnosis.

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Speaker 2: So again, like as I said, I think everyone. I've

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Speaker 2: heard so many stories by now, like everyone's story looks

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Speaker 2: so different and depending on your culture and your other intersectionalities,

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Speaker 2: and also just the cards that you were really dealt

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Speaker 2: with in the support that you had throughout your life.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting, like going back to what you said

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Speaker 1: about the negative messaging that kids with ADHD will get,

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Speaker 1: but also how some of them are actually highly functional

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Speaker 1: in schooling environments, like when you said that you got

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Speaker 1: you got such great grades. Like I'm thinking about my

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Speaker 1: best friend who also got to like a diagnosis for ADHD,

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Speaker 1: and I remember sitting with her and her mom doing

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Speaker 1: the test. Do you know what I'm talking about, Like

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Speaker 1: the scaling thing, like it's like maybe twenty pages long, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and her mom being like you really didn't struggle with that.

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Speaker 1: You really didn't struggle, Like no, that doesn't describe you

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Speaker 1: at all, And Aaron being like, no, but I like

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Speaker 1: you saw the outside of that. This was the inside

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Speaker 1: of that, and how hard it was. And also like

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Speaker 1: you know, her day was so organized, she had like

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Speaker 1: twenty different activities per day. There was always something to

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Speaker 1: keep her preoccupied, but also a structure within which you

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Speaker 1: know it was so routine focused. My question around that

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Speaker 1: is do you see a lot of people be like,

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Speaker 1: I cannot possibly have this disorder because I don't look

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Speaker 1: a certain way or because you know, I'm not just

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Speaker 1: I'm not in this description and all this idea of

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Speaker 1: what this is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. I think one thing that is

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Speaker 2: that woman here a lot is that you're too smart

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Speaker 2: to have ADHD, and that happens as an adult, happens

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Speaker 2: as a kid, and ADHD has nothing to do with intelligence.

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Speaker 2: There are people who are who are have higher IQs

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Speaker 2: with ADHD and lower. It doesn't it's not correlated. And

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Speaker 2: also like with your friend, that's something I hear too

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Speaker 2: as well. There's just one example I always give. If

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Speaker 2: you ask someone with ADHD how often do you lose

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Speaker 2: their keys? They often say I lose it multiple times

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Speaker 2: a day, or they say I never lose my keys,

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Speaker 2: and you say, okay, well why they say, because I

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Speaker 2: have this very elaborate system and built the entire system

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Speaker 2: as to why they don't lose their keys. So both

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Speaker 2: those people have ADHD, it's just that they've dealt with

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Speaker 2: that differently. So what intelligence? This one is definitely one

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Speaker 2: and another one is women who have presented with inattentive

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Speaker 2: symptoms because they weren't in the way of their teacher

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Speaker 2: or their parent, and they oftentimes had been told that

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Speaker 2: they don't have ADHD because we haven't really understood until

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Speaker 2: recently what that DIES diagnosis looks like in woman, what

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Speaker 2: it looks like in girls. And so that's changing now

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the times now with millennials, as

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Speaker 2: parents knowing more about ADHD, being able to see this

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Speaker 2: in their kid and then being able to advocate for

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Speaker 2: their kid with their doctors or their or their teachers

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Speaker 2: has been really helpful in this journey. Like we see

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Speaker 2: a lot of members come to us either who were

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Speaker 2: diagnosed because their kid was diagnosed and just generally millennials

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Speaker 2: or people the other way around who they were diagnosed,

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Speaker 2: and then they're like, I'm starting to see these symptoms

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Speaker 2: in my kid. How do I best support them? How

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Speaker 2: do I make sure that they don't go through the

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Speaker 2: thing that the experience that I went through?

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Speaker 1: And I think it's so interesting because I like, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you've seen this. There's all these articles as like

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Speaker 1: everybody has ADHD now, blah blah blah blah Blahyeah, actually

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Speaker 1: let me before I say what I'm gonna say. What

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Speaker 1: are your thoughts on those popecastle those kind of articles

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Speaker 1: or headlines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's a little bit problematic because

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Speaker 2: but I get where it comes from. When you hear

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Speaker 2: people say they're symptoms out of context, it sounds like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I lose my keys too, right, Like I also stub

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Speaker 2: my toe on the chair, I always. I also struggle

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Speaker 2: to get organized, I struggle to focus. So these are

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Speaker 2: all universal symptoms, and especially in the inattention economy today,

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Speaker 2: people are feeling those more strongly, and so I think

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Speaker 2: that there's a couple of things here. Like one, people

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Speaker 2: with ADHD face those symptoms way more severely and every

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Speaker 2: single day, all day. And imagine if you can imagine

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Speaker 2: you feeling that once in a while. Imagine if someone

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Speaker 2: was feeling it all day and it just becomes like,

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Speaker 2: let's say you have a plan to go to a

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Speaker 2: meeting that day, and then you end up spending your

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Speaker 2: entire morning going back and forth for getting like seventeen things,

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Speaker 2: and like what that does to you when you arrive

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Speaker 2: at at that meeting and you're not confident, You feel

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Speaker 2: like you're dumb. And then you botch the meeting, and

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Speaker 2: so there's just so many effects that are just they

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Speaker 2: compound on each other. And so I think what people

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Speaker 2: don't understand is the compounding effect of the severity and

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Speaker 2: the frequency. Because the other thing about the ADHD diagnosis

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Speaker 2: is that you have to have impairment in your life

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Speaker 2: for you to actually get that diagnosis. So that's actually

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Speaker 2: part of the diagnosis criteria and has to show up

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Speaker 2: before you're twelve. That's how the DSM five is currently structured.

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Speaker 2: So that's one thing, and then the other thing. I

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Speaker 2: think that just from a human perspective, I feel like

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Speaker 2: if you can resonate with people, instead of saying everyone

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Speaker 2: has ADHD, I would challenge people to think, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: can resonate with that feeling, and I imagine if they're

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Speaker 2: feeling this all the time and way more intensely and

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Speaker 2: it's impacting their life, instead of dismissing them through that resonance,

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Speaker 2: it should we should take more an approach of empathy

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Speaker 2: of like, okay, well I can understand a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine how hard this is for you.

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Speaker 2: And so taking that, I think that mindset shift is

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Speaker 2: something that a lot of folks, especially on the Internet,

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Speaker 2: I would challenge them, as you trying to think of

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Speaker 2: it in that way.

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Speaker 1: I also just think like anytime I see those articles,

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Speaker 1: like that's just factually encorrec like not everybody has ADHD,

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Speaker 1: like and I think it's one of those things where

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Speaker 1: there's a specific kind of person who like makes everybody's

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Speaker 1: health their business, and like everybody's lives their business. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's especially like an older generation who are like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this, like everybody is

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Speaker 1: the same, Why can't it just be like as it

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Speaker 1: once was? And when they hear stories about ADHD and

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Speaker 1: the media or in the news, it's like when you

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Speaker 1: hear about plane crashes, right, it makes you believe that

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Speaker 1: they're a lot more common. It makes you believe that

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Speaker 1: this is going to be this is actually a problem,

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Speaker 1: and they don't actually have all the full information, Like

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Speaker 1: there's all these cognitive biases that are making it seem

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Speaker 1: like a like a a fake epidemic, and it must

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Speaker 1: must be like such a struggle as you know someone

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Speaker 1: with ADHD yourself to be like, you don't know what

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Speaker 1: I went through to get this diagnosis. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: I just went in and said I think I have

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Speaker 1: this and okay, now give me the late people like,

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Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit more about how that

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Speaker 1: diagnosis maybe actually helped you understand yourself better and maybe

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Speaker 1: it was actually, like, as you said, a long time coming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think one of the biggest things for

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Speaker 2: me and is for a lot of our members, is

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Speaker 2: that pre diagnosis, everything about you that you didn't know

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Speaker 2: yet was related to ADHD. You just attribute it to

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Speaker 2: your personality or you attribute it to you as a human,

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Speaker 2: as like your core human. So for example, I used

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Speaker 2: I always just thought I was a bad kid. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm a bad kid, I'm a bad influence.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense that other my kid, my friend's parents

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Speaker 2: don't want me to hang out with them. Like I

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Speaker 2: didn't even question these things. They were just facts about me.

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Speaker 2: And now having this diagnosis, being able to look back

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Speaker 2: and say, like, Okay, I wasn't a bad kid, Like

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Speaker 2: these were the things that I was struggling with. This

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Speaker 2: is why, and this is probably what I needed in

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Speaker 2: the time to be able to be supported. But so

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Speaker 2: going forward, so I like, I'm same with the coaching

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Speaker 2: methodologic gy. I'm very future oriented. I think it's important

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Speaker 2: to understand the past, and sometimes it helps untangle those

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Speaker 2: things to rewrite your identity. But for me going forward,

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Speaker 2: it's also about understanding what comes from my ADHD so

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Speaker 2: I can better communicate around it and communicate with myself

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Speaker 2: so that I don't feel like a bad person. But

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Speaker 2: I also communicate with the people around me to have

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Speaker 2: the right language so it doesn't sound like excuses or

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh, I'm just I'm just always late.

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Speaker 2: I can't do anything about it. So it's not about that.

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Speaker 2: It's more of like, Okay, well, I just want you

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Speaker 2: to know that because of my ADHD symptoms, it's hard

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Speaker 2: for me to be on time. These are some things

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Speaker 2: that I'm trying to do to mitigate that is, these

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Speaker 2: are some things that if it's not too much for you,

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe you can do this to help me with

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Speaker 2: this process as well. And so it really gives you

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Speaker 2: that language, and that makes it especially in a partnership

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Speaker 2: about like you me and then there's ADHD. Right, Like,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about how we can solve for this thing,

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Speaker 2: and I'm taking responsibility for my part, but I'm also

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Speaker 2: asking as a partner if you can be able to

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Speaker 2: support me in that instead of just being tied to

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Speaker 2: an identity that you're not sure what is you and

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Speaker 2: what is HD. So I think for me, that's been

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest pieces. And then I think the

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Speaker 2: other piece is around just understanding what my strengths and

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Speaker 2: weaknesses are and with the lens of ADHD, not so

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Speaker 2: I can fix all of the weaknesses is, but more

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Speaker 2: so that I can put myself in situations where I'm

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Speaker 2: leveraging my strengths more. And that's been the main part

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Speaker 2: of the journey that I've been on with coaching, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of our members are on with coaching as

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Speaker 2: well as really that reframe to place yourself in better

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Speaker 2: situations and communicate better rather than just thinking, oh, there's

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Speaker 2: all these things that are bad about me that I

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Speaker 2: need to fix.

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Speaker 1: Well, this kind of brings me to this proactive approach

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Speaker 1: to ADHD that you talk about speak me through this

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Speaker 1: specific perspective, because as I understand it, you know, we've

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Speaker 1: gone back to the history of like what it would

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Speaker 1: maybe have been like to be a kid who has

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Speaker 1: an undiagnosed ADHD and your cold a nuisance and you're cold,

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Speaker 1: annoying and as you said, you know, parents don't want

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Speaker 1: their kids to hang out with you like you know

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Speaker 1: your skold it all the time. Probably when you get

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Speaker 1: an ADHD diagnosis, it would be very easy for you

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Speaker 1: to think of it as a weakness. You like to

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Speaker 1: think of it as a as a strength. Took me

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Speaker 1: through that a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a It's such a fine balance

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Speaker 2: and it's a really big sticking point in the ADHD community.

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Speaker 2: I think on one end, there's the extremely deficit driven

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Speaker 2: approach of I have ADHD, I have all of these

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Speaker 2: things that are wrong with me, and I need to

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Speaker 2: fix all of them. That is not the mental model

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Speaker 2: I ascribe to. But also on the other end, there's

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Speaker 2: this superpower model, which I think that borders on toxic

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Speaker 2: positivity when you say that ADHD as a whole is

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Speaker 2: a super is a superpower and and a lot of

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Speaker 2: adhds in the community have an allergic reaction to that

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Speaker 2: with good reason, because it undermines the support that is

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Speaker 2: required for people with ADHD. If everyone just believes that

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Speaker 2: we're all superheroes because we have ADHD, then we won't

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Speaker 2: get the right support, the right accommodations that we need.

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Speaker 2: From when we're a child to when we're adults. So

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Speaker 2: I paint the two extremes because there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who sit on each end of that extreme.

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to take a balanced approach, and

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Speaker 2: it's the approach that we take at Shimmer as well,

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Speaker 2: where you do have challenges as a person with ADHD,

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Speaker 2: and those challenges are important to be aware of, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you need to solve all of them.

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Speaker 2: You don't need to sit there saying I have bad memory.

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Speaker 2: I need to solve that problem. I need to train

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Speaker 2: my brain to have better memory, because I'm never going

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Speaker 2: to have great memory. That's just not going to happen

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Speaker 2: for me. And that's okay, I accept that. And instead

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Speaker 2: it's contextual. So maybe I don't want to be in

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Speaker 2: a job where I'm playing Jeopardy or whatever. We ever quiet, Yeah, yeah,

397
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Speaker 2: exactly right, And so there's other ways to approach it.

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Speaker 2: But then on the other hand, people with ADG and

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Speaker 2: all people, not just people with ADCH, but people with

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Speaker 2: ADCH don't often realize this is that they have strengths.

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Speaker 2: And there are strengths that are common for people with

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Speaker 2: ADHD around creativity, around nonlinear thinking. Even impulsivity can be

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Speaker 2: something that is positive, like for entrepreneurship. Sometimes you do

404
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 2: need that impulsivity to be able to take risks that

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Speaker 2: other people won't take. So every kind of weakness oftentimes

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Speaker 2: has like a strength on the other side. And so

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to take a balanced view to

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Speaker 2: who you are as a whole. And then on top

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Speaker 2: of that, I think a big part of our approach,

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Speaker 2: and one of the first things I realized needed to

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Speaker 2: happen as an ADHDER is before even doing all that,

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Speaker 2: you really need to define where you want to go

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Speaker 2: as a person. And people with ADHD have impaired prospective memory,

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Speaker 2: which is basically looking into the future. We often just

415
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 2: spin our wheels faster and faster in no particular direction,

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Speaker 2: which again is probably relatable to a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: And so the first thing we do in coaching is

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Speaker 2: help people think about where they want to go in

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Speaker 2: the future. And so for some people that'll be a

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Speaker 2: really hard activity because if you've never thought of it,

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Speaker 2: and for some people it'll be easier. So once you

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Speaker 2: define that, then it becomes easier to say, do we

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Speaker 2: really need to fix all the challenges that you have

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Speaker 2: to get there, or do we maybe need to like

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Speaker 2: switch gears a little bit, or are there certain strengths

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Speaker 2: that you can be able to draw and to move

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Speaker 2: you closer to that future that you envision. And so

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Speaker 2: both of those two things, in terms of looking into

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Speaker 2: the future and then taking steps to get there that's

430
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: more aligned with your strengths and challenges together creates an

431
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Speaker 2: entire system that helps you just live a life that

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Speaker 2: you're more calm, happy, fulfilled, feeling well, whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to define as your kind of objective function.

434
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: It just sounds like a very realistic approach, Like there's

435
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: no like, there's no extremes in that of like either

436
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: this is a superpower or like stomp out every single

437
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: thing about yourself that you don't like, which, yeah, personally,

438
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: I think is like, you know, the middle ground is

439
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: often the best in terms of these things, Like the

440
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: balance of things is always where you find like the

441
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: most piece. I guess, which is what you're.

442
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Saying exactly, And I think that, I mean, we all

443
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: know how social media and algorithms work. Actually, I recently

444
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: listened to a Mel Robbins episode that had research that

445
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: was so interesting that talked about how all of the

446
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: perspectives on the Internet were actually mostly written by like

447
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: ten percent of people, and those ten percent of people

448
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: generally fall in extremes. We are all scared to go

449
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: against what we think is the popular opinion, so we

450
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: see those opinions and we decide to ascribe to one

451
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 2: of them, and that's how a lot of polarization happens.

452
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: And I think within the ADHD community, this polarization is

453
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: also at least we all perceive it to be happening,

454
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 2: but I think there are probably more people in the

455
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: middle than we think.

456
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we're gonna take a short break, but when

457
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: we return, we're going to talk some ADHD friendly strategies

458
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: for work, for love for life, So stay with us.

459
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: So I had this listener reach out to me the

460
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: other day and she was like, I really want to

461
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: know how I can manage my executive dysfunction as somebody

462
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: with ADHD, and I kind of have to be like,

463
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: I don't really know, but let me get back to you.

464
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: Let me ask someone who does know. So one of

465
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: some of the strategies that you've used to help yourself

466
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: with deadlines, with focus, with burnout in your career.

467
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first half of my answer is going

468
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: to be an unpopular one because people always want hacks,

469
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: But it is so important to first identify where exactly

470
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: you are going and because you might not need to

471
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: fix the thing that you think you need to fix.

472
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: So I will first say that and get that out

473
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 2: of the way, even though nobody will listen to me

474
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,959
Speaker 2: because people always want the hacks. So for me, some

475
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: of the things that have been and the most helpful

476
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: is first one is the reframe that not everything needs,

477
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: not all the solutions need to come from me doing

478
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: something different internally. It a lot of it, and it's

479
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: easier is if you set up your life to be different,

480
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: because then it's a gift that keeps on giving. So

481
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: that might be setting up your environment in a certain

482
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: way that is conducive for you to be able to focus.

483
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: It might be having a specific room in your house

484
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: where you're working in another room where you never work

485
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: in and then that helps trigger your brain into I'm

486
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: in work mode and I'm not in work mode. And

487
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: it might be having certain systems that your whole family

488
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: knows about. So one that is really common is people

489
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: who work from home, which is a lot of people

490
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: now when they're writing, they will put a little sign

491
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: on their door where their kid and their partner all

492
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: know that this means like I'm in deep writing mode,

493
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: and so they don't get that distraction. So again, all

494
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: of these I'm giving like little examples because it all

495
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: comes from working back from what your challenges and what

496
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: your goal is. So if these things don't work for you,

497
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: I would not also abandon them. You need to think

498
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: about how you can implement that better in your life.

499
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: And so that kind of brings me to another one

500
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: that has been so helpful for me is learning what

501
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: your motivators are and then injecting that into your work. So,

502
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: for example, for me, novelty and accountability are two of

503
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: my strongest motivators. So when I can't get something done,

504
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: I ask myself, Okay, what is a way that I

505
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: can put accountability into it? Do I have to say

506
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,479
Speaker 2: with my co founder that in our next working session

507
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: he needs to check in with me on this, Like

508
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: that's accountability or for novelty, do I've been wanting to

509
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: do this thing for a long time and I can't

510
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: do it. Do I need to do it on Canva

511
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: and put it in pink instead of doing it on

512
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: em now and then just move it later on. So

513
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: really understanding first what are your motivators, and that you

514
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: can figure out by looking backwards at let's say a

515
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: week or a day. If you can't think back at

516
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: a week and think about what are the moments of

517
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: the day that you were most excited and most motivated

518
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: and think through what was there for you. So the

519
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: most common ones are novelty, interest, passion, accountability, urgency. Those

520
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: are some of the ones that are common for people

521
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: with ADHD, but you might discover that there are other

522
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: motivators for you as well. And then the third thing

523
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: I will say that has been so helpful for me

524
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: is energy management. So people with ADG have generally a

525
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: late set circuit rhythm. They sleep, want to sleep later,

526
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: and work up later. We also have more erratic energy

527
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 2: bursts throughout the day, and for a long time I

528
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: tried to fight against that and just you have these

529
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 2: narratives in your head of like I should be able

530
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: to be as consistent as everyone else, like why can't

531
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: I work from nine till five? And then there's these

532
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: other days where you just work for like twelve fourteen

533
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: dollars straight you knock out like a whole weeks of work,

534
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: and then the next day you can't do your nine

535
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: to five and you wonder why, well, because you've just

536
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: knocked out a whole week of work the day before.

537
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: So really learning what your energy looks like, what times

538
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: of the day you are energized, and maybe putting deep

539
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: work during that time, what times of the day you

540
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: are in maybe more of a crash boat, and maybe

541
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: you want to do a walk outside because you know

542
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: that that really brings you up. And also, if you're

543
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: a woman, oftentimes, depending on your hormonocycle, your energy won't

544
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: look the same throughout the month. So that awareness again

545
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: and then matching that awareness with what sort of tasks

546
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: go in there. And so the meta kind of message

547
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: here is really figuring out how you can work with

548
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: your brain and body instead of fighting against it, because

549
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: oftentimes we fight against it because we think that we

550
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: need to do things in a way that we've just

551
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: seen other people do. And when we listen to how

552
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: other people like the tips that other people put out there,

553
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: they're generally from people who are neurotypical who and it

554
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: generally is the average thing that works for everyone. And

555
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: if you have ADHD, you're generally not super average.

556
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably not. I want to talk about that. Adds

557
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: one word you mentioned, which was urgency, And yeah, how

558
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: urgency plays a role in ADHD personally? I feel like

559
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of research that like the urgency

560
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: effect is a lot stronger. So people with ADHD often

561
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: prefer working under a tight deadline. How do you how

562
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: do you suggest people manage that when they also, you know,

563
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: want to be proactive about not being stressed right up

564
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: to the time that something is due, or doing something

565
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: the best that they can do it rather than the

566
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: fastest they can do it. How do they kind of

567
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: navigate that like the complexity of like wanting to do

568
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: it in the moment when you have the most adrenaline

569
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: and wanting.

570
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: To do it.

571
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: Well.

572
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a really tough one because we all

573
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: know that we do things better like with ADHD, that

574
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: we do things better at the last minute. But the

575
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: problem is you probably face a large degree of shame

576
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: leading up to that that moment where for maybe weeks

577
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: or months, you are thinking about the thing, and you

578
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: are thinking about how you're just not doing the thing

579
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: and how bad you are and how you should be

580
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: doing it, and that just weighs on you. And that

581
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: is a really really large cost, and so it's different

582
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: for each person. If you feel like that cost is

583
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: not big, not big for you, one option is do

584
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: I have heard of people who are like I just

585
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: accept that I do things at the last minute, and

586
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: I will do it. And it depends on what job

587
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: you have as well. Some people are able to do that,

588
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: some people aren't. So I'll first say that, like, you

589
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: might not need to solve it. Maybe you need to

590
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: solve the part where you're ruminating, and maybe you need

591
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: to solve the urgency part really figuring out which part

592
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: you need to solve. But if you do want to

593
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: not do things at the very last minute, which I

594
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: generally can't in my job, the way that I've done

595
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: it is one way is by building in like micro

596
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: urgency moments using my motivators. So again similar examples before.

597
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: If I know that there's a big project that's due,

598
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: I try not to make I try when I do

599
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: the project planning part, I try to build in multiple

600
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: smaller urgency moments for me. So I will do a

601
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: meeting maybe a quarterway through where I know I need

602
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: someone's feedback and they're waiting for my for what I have,

603
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: and we've communicated ahead of time that on this day

604
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about this thing. And that for

605
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 2: me is enough for me to be able to do

606
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: that quarter of the work because I have that pre

607
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: set out for me. And if you have the I

608
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: would say privilege, let's say, if you have an assistant

609
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: or if using SUSPREI tool, having them be able to

610
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: do that for you because they know that you need that.

611
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: And setting the meeting if there's a meeting in my calendar,

612
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 2: and I know everyone's different. For me, if there's a

613
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: meeting in my calendar, I will prepare for it. If

614
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 2: there's no meeting my calendar, I won't prepare for it.

615
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: So and if there's a meeting with someone else, I

616
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: will more likely prepare for a while. So just really

617
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: pulling on all of those your own motivators and then

618
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: building in extra urgency moments is really helpful. And then

619
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: another thing is really just a lot of the times

620
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: we do something. Let's say we wait until the last

621
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: minute and then we do this thing really stressfully and

622
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: then we say, oh my gosh, I'm never doing this again.

623
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: This is so stressful. I hate this, and then within

624
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: a month you forget, You totally forget that learning that

625
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: is so common, not just for this example, but so

626
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: many examples. So I think one thing that's also really

627
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: important is finding your own way of making sure you

628
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: capture the things that you've learned in the past. And

629
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: so I mean with me, I use Schimmer, but it's

630
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: not just negative and like learnings, but also wins. So

631
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: I have a folder in my phone and in my

632
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: laptop and in my email. I have three different ones

633
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: that I capture, like testimonials, photos when someone sends me

634
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: an Instagram comment that says that, like my ex video

635
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: has changed their life. And because I need reminders of

636
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: those things because on days where I'm not doing so hot,

637
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: I will forget and I'll be like wow, like all

638
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: this is for nothing and nobody. I've not changed anyone's life,

639
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: and I've just been here working myself off for no reason.

640
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: And so I get these narratives in my head, and

641
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: when I can just look at these pictures or look

642
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: at these messages, it reminds me and kind of grounds

643
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: me in the past. Because it's harder for people with

644
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: ADHD to remember the past, especially when they're in like

645
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: an emotionally dysregulated moment.

646
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can. I can only imagine how tricky that

647
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: would be, just being like, oh, I can never remember

648
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: a good thing that anyone said to me. Like the

649
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: the intersection of like self esteem in ADHD is like

650
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: a whole nother conversation. I had a friend who actually,

651
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: speaking of like the urgency stuff and meeting deadlines at

652
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: the start of every single semester when we were at UNI,

653
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: he would go through all the core syllabuses and then

654
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: put all of the deadlines in his in his calendar

655
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: three days beforehand, and he kind of was like, I'm

656
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: going to use my memory, the fact that I know

657
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have great memory recall to like

658
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: and some of them he'd do like three some of them,

659
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: and he'd do like five. Some of them he'd do

660
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: like two days beforehand. One day beforehand. He was like,

661
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna, you know, go and you know, trust

662
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to remember which ones I did

663
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: for which of these. I'm just going to trust what's

664
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 1: in my calendar and get it done at this state

665
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: so that by the time that rolls around, like I

666
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: get to feel the urgency. I finished the work, and

667
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: then I have like a day to edit, or have

668
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: like a day to fix it, or I just submit

669
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like happily surprised by the fact that the

670
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 1: deadline hasn't passed yet. I feel like for some people

671
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: that wouldn't work, but I saw it work incredibly well

672
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 1: for him. It was like, honestly, I was like watching

673
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: it being like, how do you just lie to yourself

674
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: like that? And like it was so weird, Like he

675
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: knew that it was a lie, and he would still

676
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: believe it even like it was just the most interesting

677
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: thing that he'd found, like this hack for his brain.

678
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, he's I mean, he's externalizing his memory.

679
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: And also once he gets there, even though he knows,

680
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: it's still a lot of effort to do the calculation

681
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 2: and exactly. Yeah, it's kind of like when I think

682
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: a lot of people did this. It's not just an

683
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: ADHD thing. But when I was younger, my clerk was

684
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 2: always five minutes ahead. I put all my clocks five

685
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: minutes ahead, and I knew it was a lie, But

686
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: you just don't, like, I'm not constantly calculating the time

687
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: so I just end up getting to places I think

688
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: five minutes. I thought I would be there five minutes early,

689
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: but then i'd be there on time, which is perfect, Oh.

690
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: My god, perfect. Yeah. See I never did that because

691
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: I just knew. I was like, well that's not the truth.

692
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: But then again, like I had executive function where I

693
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: can just be like, oh, I'll just get there.

694
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

695
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: So it's like interesting, how like maybe, yeah, it's just

696
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: so interesting how different people do those things. I want

697
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: to talk about love. I want to start by talking

698
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: about rejection sensitivity. This is a word that I hear

699
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: in regards to ADHD all the time. I've done an

700
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: episode on it before. I have, I think a pretty

701
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: general knowledge of it. Can you talk us through it?

702
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: Why is it so common amongst people with ADHD? And

703
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: I guess my third question, so sorry, three questions at once,

704
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: how can people manage it? But firstly, what is it?

705
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: Why is it common that we can talk about for

706
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: managing it?

707
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 2: So, rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is commonly known as RSD,

708
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: is essentially a phenomenon, I guess you can call it

709
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: where people with ADHD will feel like they're rejected by

710
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 2: other people. Or feel like there's negative sentiment coming towards them,

711
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: and it's defined as like real or perceived rejections. So

712
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: oftentimes it falls in that second category of perceived and

713
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: it's generally created through well one emotional dysregulation of us.

714
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: Just the moment we feel something, we like, jump on

715
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: that feeling, and then it becomes bigger and bigger, and

716
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: then we're kind of just swimming in that feeling or

717
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: or I guess. And it's also because we've had an

718
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 2: entire lifetime of people telling us that we were wrong,

719
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: are we doing it the wrong way? And then we've

720
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: internalized that and then we continue to tell ourselves that.

721
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: And so whenever there's like a small I guess like signal,

722
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: you feel like you've done something wrong. And so for me,

723
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: for example, like whenever I'm in an our argument with someone,

724
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: uh work or relationships, I will always think that I'm wrong,

725
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: like one hundred percent of the time that's my immediate reaction.

726
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes people need to convince me, and this is happened

727
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: in relationships where they're like no, no, like let's have a

728
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: conversation about this. There's no right or wrong. We're just

729
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: trying to get to a understanding, and so I've been

730
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: I've been unlearning that I'm just like, oh, no, I

731
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: must have done something wrong, like you must hate me.

732
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: So it is for most people at ATDHD, this lifelong unlearning,

733
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: and especially in like logically, I know in people's situations

734
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: it's there's no there's often not like a wrong, but

735
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: I just feel that way, and so I guess you're

736
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: second part of the question of like what people can

737
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: do with it?

738
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

739
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: One really for me that's been most helpful and I

740
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: have been working on with coaching. That comes up for

741
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: a lot of our members too, is really understanding like

742
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: what your triggers are and what sort of situations these

743
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: come up with come up in the most And this

744
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: actually goes for not just RSD, but also impulsivity. It's

745
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: the same thing where I do a lot of impulsive,

746
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: stupid things and I don't realize it's wrong and it's

747
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: hurt people until after it's done and people communicate it

748
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: to me. And for both of those things, what I

749
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: worked on with my coach is separately for those two things,

750
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: understanding what situations do those commonly happen in, and just

751
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: the awareness of that when you're about to step into

752
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: a situation like that, Like for example, with impulsivity, maybe

753
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: it's drinking, and you can have that pep talk with

754
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: yourself to say, okay, like I'm entering this situation with awareness,

755
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: and so you can it could be awareness that your

756
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: RSD might be triggered. It could be awareness that you

757
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: might do something impulsive, so that you can put and

758
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: it's the same solution again. You can put that pause.

759
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: So when someone says something and you immediately your brain

760
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: starts spiraling, you need to get into the practice of

761
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: putting the pause. And same with impulsivity. When you're about

762
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: to have an impulsive moment and you just need to

763
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: figure out how to put the pause. The best thing

764
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: you can do for yourself is understanding when that generally happens,

765
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 2: because it's it's not random for each person. It's going

766
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: to be in different situations where that happens. And so

767
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: really just knowing in this situation, these sorts of conversations

768
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: generally make me feel this way, and if that happens,

769
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. And if you have that

770
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: plan beforehand, when you're calm and collected and you've written

771
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: that down, ideally I used to have. I think when

772
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: I first hearded this exercise, I used to have a

773
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: sticky note and I would like put it in my

774
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: closet where I would like get dressed before going out,

775
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 2: where I would more likely to drink. And so really

776
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: just like putting it where you would need to see

777
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: it to remind yourself of that, and over time you'll

778
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 2: need to remind yourself less because your brain is kind

779
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 2: of trained to go trigger and then thought and then

780
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: like being able to block that thought.

781
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: It's like putting yourself in a waiting room. That's like

782
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: what that sounds like to me. I'm like, okay, before

783
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: we react, or like before we do something like forcing

784
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: your self to like sit with it for a.

785
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: Little bit exactly, and knowing when you might need to

786
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: be in that waiting room, because yeah, when you're emotionally dysregulated,

787
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: you might not be able to put yourself in that

788
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: waiting room. So like basically giving your brain an auto pilot,

789
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 2: saying like, if this happens, I go to a waiting room.

790
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like if then, which I love and I

791
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: just like can't imagine what it would feel like to

792
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: be Like everybody who says something slightly rude or just

793
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: slightly off or not even like you just interpret them.

794
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: It's like not liking you. My friend actually told me

795
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: about this rule, which is like the twenty five percent rule,

796
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: which is there is like, actually only a small amount

797
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: of people, maybe twenty five percent of people who you

798
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: will never convince not to like you, or who you

799
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: will never convince to like you. Sorry, that's what I

800
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: should say, never convinced to like you. And that's like

801
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: one in four, which might sound like a huge number,

802
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like doing the math of like, actually,

803
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: not every single person could possibly not like me, but

804
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: also I'm down to accept that maybe like a quarter

805
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: of them will, and that's just a certainty that everyone's

806
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: going to find themselves in. So I don't know if

807
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: that's also helpful, but yeah, I would just be wild.

808
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the other thing is I often,

809
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: whenever I have a feeling RSD is one of them,

810
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: I often think that it's less of a reflection on

811
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: the other person, and it's usually a reflection on myself.

812
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: So I would say the other tip that I would

813
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: have is if you think that everyone's having some sort

814
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: of negative thought towards yourself, it might not be, but

815
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: I would challenge to think if you maybe have that

816
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 2: negative thought towards yourself, and so yeah, that is the case,

817
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 2: then you need to do the work to be able

818
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: to reinforce your strengths, reinforce pass wins, to really build

819
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: up your self confidence, which is is a practice of

820
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: building self confidence of continuing to put yourself out there

821
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: and seeing that things are going to go well for

822
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: you and that you can handle these situation. And so

823
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 2: as you build up your self confidence, you will find

824
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: that these situations, you'll less likely feel like other people

825
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 2: don't like you because you back yourself so hard. And

826
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: that's such a long journey, right, but like you want

827
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: to get to the point where you back yourself so

828
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: hard that you wouldn't think that they don't like you.

829
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: But even if you had all the signals and they

830
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: didn't like you, it wouldn't even impact you because it

831
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: doesn't matter because you back yourself so much.

832
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I love. I'm like, this is something I

833
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: find even in someone without ADHD. It's like the things

834
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: that sting the most are the things that you think

835
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: might be true exactly, And that's that's something that is

836
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 1: for everybody so it's like, yes, where is that pain

837
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: coming from? I want to talk about a bit more

838
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 1: about relationships as well, and maybe some of the common

839
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,479
Speaker 1: hurdles or pitfalls that people with ADHD might find when

840
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: they're falling in love or even in friendship.

841
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did a whole series called ADHG Go

842
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: Feels and add Toogle dates on this, so it's really

843
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: fun if you want to check it out. But I think,

844
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: like in the early stages, one of the really common ones,

845
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: which is a interesting one because I do this and

846
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: I've been done this too, is definitely around love bombing.

847
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: This comes up so frequently because it's related to emotional

848
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 2: dysregulation in that when we fall for someone, it's very

849
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: common that we fall for them, like really hard, and

850
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: then we ignore all the signals, even if there's red

851
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: flags or whatever it is, and we pour so much

852
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: love in them that it can also sometimes scare people away.

853
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 2: So even in a relationship where it could have worked,

854
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: maybe you just freak them out because you came on

855
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: too hard, and so that in itself can be a challenge.

856
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: But also then there's this transition of like when you

857
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: finish the initial dysregulated love bombing, it can feel jarring

858
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: to your partner when you suddenly like change the way

859
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 2: that you act. And I know everyone goes through a

860
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 2: little bit of this, but I think with each years

861
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: we feel this more and it's very common, this full

862
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: love bombing thing. I think love bombs obviously not the

863
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: official term for it, but everything get is heightened, and

864
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: this is a very sensitive moment where it is sometimes

865
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: helpful to be aware of that and then make sure

866
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: you're I mean, it's your choice if you want to

867
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: try to control it and slow it down. I think

868
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people give advice to slow it down.

869
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: I actually just find it important to communicate. For me,

870
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 2: I actually enjoy the really strong I'm falling ahead over

871
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: my feels heels feeling. I just will explain to the

872
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: person that this happens to me, I think this is

873
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: what's happening, and just keeping the communication open so that

874
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: they're aware that I'm aware of this and we're kind

875
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: of a decision together. But I know a lot of

876
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: people do give the advice to there's tactics to essentially

877
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: like kind of like draw that love period out longer

878
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: so that you can be able to explore things in

879
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: a more calm way. So I think it's really person dependent.

880
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: Obviously there's no right answer.

881
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: And what do you think or from experience, what happens

882
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: after like the love high kind of crashes, Like I

883
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: feel like that state where you know there may be

884
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: love bombing that maybe intensity like can only last for

885
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: so long. What happens then? Is it a case of

886
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: like you get bored or you get confused, or you

887
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: think you've fallen out of love with them? Yeah, what

888
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: does that feeling feel like.

889
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: A lot of the times it does. It does feel

890
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: like boredom. And I think that there's a process of

891
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: figuring out if it's because of the person in your

892
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: relationship that isn't actually right and you were just stuck

893
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 2: in all the feelings, or if you haven't found a

894
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: way to potentially value and fall in love with the

895
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: other parts of a relationship which are maybe not the

896
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: same as the parts of the relationship in the beginning.

897
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 2: And it also I think a lot of the times too,

898
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: because you fell so hard, you weren't thinking very critically

899
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,479
Speaker 2: about things like for example, most of my neurotypical friends

900
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: I actually know that they have this list of like

901
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: no negotiables and things we're in a relationship and all

902
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: of those things, and I always thought it was kind

903
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 2: of interesting because I was like, oh, there's no point

904
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: in me making that because I've actually never chosen a

905
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: relationship that I've been in. I've just fallen into it.

906
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 2: I don't know why I would have.

907
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: That list, when would I use it.

908
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: But I did actually recently create the list because my

909
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: co founder, who is neurotypical, he had this list and

910
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: we were talking about it and I was like, Okay,

911
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: I'll try to create the list, and so it was

912
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: helpful going through the thought process around it. But I'm

913
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: just not sure if I would use it in the

914
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: same way that are able to use it in the

915
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: same because I'm not as level headed going into a relationship.

916
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I feel like could be both so much

917
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: fun and super scary, and you're like, yeah, I'm just

918
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: here for the for the ride, like wherever this goes,

919
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: Like I kind of know I might not be in

920
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: control for the first little bit, which I don't know.

921
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: You said you enjoyed the feeling, so it kind of

922
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: sounds fine.

923
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do enjoy it, but I definitely have gone

924
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: through phases where I had like pretty strong fears of

925
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: what if I can ever be in a long term relationship,

926
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: what if I'm only good at this beginning part. So

927
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: those are definitely things that I have thought about. I'm

928
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: currently in my first ever ADHD ADHD relationship. I've alw

929
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 2: AHD neurotypical relationships, so I'm starting to change my mind

930
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: about things because we talk really openly about ADHD symptoms

931
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: and we communicate through it, so it's felt different. So

932
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: I'm hopeful.

933
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful for you as well. Okay, we're gonna take

934
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: one more shortbreak, but when we return, I'm gonna kind

935
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: of talk a bit more. I want to talk more

936
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: about this relationship that you're in and how you're managing it,

937
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: and also you know some tips for people who are

938
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: diagnosed and just for tips for people in their twenties

939
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: in general, So stay with us. Okay, So you mentioned

940
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: during your first ADHD ADHD relationship, how is that different

941
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: from dating somebody who is neurotypical if you want to

942
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: talk about it, of course.

943
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of course I have thought about this a lot,

944
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 3: and I actually, coming into this relationship, I thought that

945
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: I had to be in an adh G neuorotypical relationship

946
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 3: one me.

947
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 2: And my co founder is neurotypical. So even from a

948
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: business perspective, I've always thought, Okay, we have different skills,

949
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 2: we have different strengths, and together we are stronger. And

950
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: I do think I still do believe in that. But

951
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 2: I used to believe that it couldn't be a different way.

952
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: And so now I'm in an adhdadd relationship and there's

953
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 2: different pros cons. I think, obviously there's certain things where

954
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: we are both going to be bad at and therefore

955
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: it's going to be harder to get done, like chores

956
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: or lock things around the house. But I think the

957
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: pros is that there's so many things I didn't realize

958
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: until I was in an ADHDADHD relationship that I used

959
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: to need to at least explain and try to explain

960
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: myself because it looked like I was either being lazy

961
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 2: or careless, or I didn't love them or whatever. There's

962
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: a lot of misinterpretations or even worse than that, A

963
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: lot of the times I would not even try to explain.

964
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: I would just feel like I was going to get

965
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: judged for something and therefore just not do it. Versus now,

966
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: I think in a lot of situations. We will just

967
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: talk about things like the communication will just be more

968
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: open and I will be more comfortable sharing things because

969
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 2: I know that she'll have a similar either a similar

970
00:49:54,520 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: perspective or or at least understand that perspectives are different.

971
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it'd be so comforting just being like, oh,

972
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: I don't have to I don't eat, Like you have

973
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,959
Speaker 1: some of the same knowledge as me, and.

974
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: We can laugh about things that we can laugh at

975
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 2: ourselves rather than laughing at the other person. But yeah,

976
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: it's been It's also been hard for me to untangle

977
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 2: because this is also my first queer relationship, So some

978
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: things I'm like, I'm not sure if this is coming

979
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: from interesting part or the I'm dating a woman part.

980
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: So it's like, is.

981
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: It easier because it's ADHD or because like, yeah, women

982
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: just tend to have more planning skills. Yeah, that's interesting,

983
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: or like tend to just like be easier to work

984
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: with slash be with.

985
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like I wish from a scientific perspective,

986
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: if these could have happened in two steps, that would

987
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: have been helpful.

988
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: But no, that's so funny. I love that you wanted

989
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: to control group. That's so me, I don't I get

990
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: what you mean. This is another thing that's like my

991
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: second final question has been coming to the end of

992
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: this episode. How do you deal with or how do

993
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: you think people with ADHD can deal with this feeling

994
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 1: that they are too much, that they are too much

995
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: for love, they're too much for the workplace, they're too

996
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: much in friendship, they're too much for their family. Have

997
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: you like kind of had to overcome that in your

998
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: own life, and like how did you kind of go

999
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: about it?

1000
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I always thought I was too much, and

1001
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: I just as I mentioned at the beginning, I kind

1002
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: of just accepted that I was a bad kid. And

1003
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: even in my first job in consulting, I was told that, oh,

1004
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: your your work is really great, but you're I think

1005
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: even some point they said I was doing too much.

1006
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: I was doing a lot of pro bono and volunteering

1007
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 2: stuff and they're like, that's not the point of your job.

1008
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: And then I was doing too much like social and

1009
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: culture stuff. And also I wasn't being like reliable and

1010
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: consistent in enough. So I think it's a big it's

1011
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: actually a mix up in too much and not enough,

1012
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: which is kind of ironic, but you constantly feel like

1013
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: you're in one of those two buckets. You're either too

1014
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 2: much or not enough. And so for me, one big

1015
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: the thing that has been really helpful honestly has just

1016
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: been changing my environment. As a entrepreneur. You're never too much.

1017
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: You're expected to be too much, so you're expected to

1018
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: push the boundaries. You're expected to be really inspirational and

1019
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: loud and be doing a bunch of things, and so

1020
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: that really helped because the expectation is just different. And

1021
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 2: then the other thing is like speaking about relationships. Even

1022
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: in relationships, I always felt like I was either too

1023
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: much or not enough. And I think in this current relationship,

1024
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: we've had this conversation many times, and I think it's

1025
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: because she also has ADHD, but she's also too much

1026
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 2: quote unquote, and so I think it just changes the

1027
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 2: barometer because everything is contextual right. Too much is like

1028
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: too much for what, too much compared to neurotypical people,

1029
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: too much compared to what's expected of you. So if

1030
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 2: you can change the comparison point, then you no longer

1031
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 2: become too much. You just become different than other people

1032
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: around you. But everywhere is different in a different way.

1033
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: So I think if you have the privilege to change

1034
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: the context around you, the environment around you, that's generally easier.

1035
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of members who come to us

1036
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: even at Shimmer, they'll say things like, Oh, I just

1037
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: like want to be productive because I'm not productive enough,

1038
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm not organized enough. And then turns out what actually

1039
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: would make them happy is just placing them in a

1040
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 2: different environment or a different job, or having a different

1041
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: sort of system so such that they don't need to

1042
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: do all the high horse power work that they think

1043
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 2: is required to be able to get to where they want.

1044
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 2: So really questioning those aspects. And then the other piece,

1045
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: which I know I've touched on a lot, is just

1046
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: finding your way to build up self assurance and self confidence. Yeah,

1047
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 2: and the like the little tactics I talked about about

1048
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: keeping your winds really handy, keeping making sure the people

1049
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: around you are really supportive, And a lot of it

1050
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: starts with leadership as well. Uh, if you are gassing

1051
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: up the people around you and leading by example and

1052
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: they think about it, they're probably gonna gas you up back.

1053
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: So a lot of the times we sit here wishing

1054
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: that like the world was different, But if you just

1055
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: do how I mean, there's like the cliche like treating

1056
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 2: other people how you want to be treated, but it

1057
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 2: really works. Three examples. It's a cliche for that way

1058
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 2: to make someone do someone something that you want them

1059
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 2: to do is for you to do it, and they

1060
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: just they see it and they're like, oh okay, but

1061
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: if you tell them that they should do it, they're

1062
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 2: not going to do it.

1063
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a total that's like I can confirm

1064
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: according to psychology that it's like a very real effect.

1065
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: And also if you do something for them, they're more

1066
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: likely to like you as well. And if you do

1067
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: something like and you're more likely to like them. Like

1068
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: it's this whole interaction of like reciprocity. Like I've had

1069
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: this feeling recently where I'm like I started to understand

1070
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: why cliches are cliches, and that one like treat people

1071
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: how you want to be treated is like one of

1072
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: my favorites. When I'm like, oh god, that's so wise,

1073
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: Like they were so right on that one.

1074
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. There in my So, I went to my for

1075
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 2: a undergrad I did business school and I had a

1076
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 2: negotiations class, and I don't remember anything from any of

1077
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 2: my classes. I have no memory, but this one really

1078
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 2: stuck with me, and they gave us this one talking

1079
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: point where when someone where when you do something for

1080
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 2: someone and they say thank you, you tell them, oh,

1081
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: no problem at all. I know you'd do the same

1082
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 2: for me, and you're like reinforcing reciprocity.

1083
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: I was like, leaky, see there here, guys, a little

1084
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: bit of manipulation, doesn't it can't go far enough. I

1085
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 1: have one final question for you. What is one piece

1086
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: of advice? This is a question we ask everybody. What

1087
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: is one piece of advice that you would have for

1088
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: people in the twenties that has nothing to do with

1089
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: what we talked about today, nothing to do with ADHD,

1090
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: nothing to do with yeah, any of the things we

1091
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: touched on.

1092
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 2: Just a piece of advice from you to them. I,

1093
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 2: based on my experience, I would say, just experiment and

1094
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 2: have fun. I think that oftentimes we take everything a

1095
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: little bit too seriously and we get lost in things

1096
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: that we later on decide weren't even important to us

1097
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: to begin with. So what that looks like for me

1098
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: is really just doing some work figuring out kind of

1099
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: what your values are. They might change over time, but

1100
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 2: just doing putting a little bit thought behind them, and

1101
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 2: then just ensuring you're living semi accordingly to them, and

1102
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,479
Speaker 2: then just experimenting, because sometimes you do you don't really

1103
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: know what you're going to like or if something's going

1104
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 2: to feel good for you unless you actually unless you

1105
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 2: try it. And a lot of the times people get

1106
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 2: caught up too early picking a path, and especially I

1107
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: know you said, don't say ADHD, but especially no No no,

1108
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: who are super who are like multipotential lights and they

1109
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: have lots of hobbies. And we're told by society that

1110
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: you need to pick one career and know your purpose

1111
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: and just do it for the rest of your life.

1112
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 2: And if you have that narrative in your head, it

1113
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 2: is really difficult because who knows when they're eighteen what

1114
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: they want to do. And I think that's yeah, really changing.

1115
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: I honestly think that's like one of the biggest mistakes

1116
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: that society has made is making people decide so young.

1117
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: I just feel like there's so many, so much unhappiness,

1118
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: and so many people who become like obsessed with the

1119
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: wrong things like money and like wealth or like status

1120
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: because like what they chose at eighteen was meant to

1121
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: be the thing they had to do for the rest

1122
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: of their life. So I love that advice and I

1123
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: totally resonate with it. Well, I want to say thank

1124
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on, even as someone who

1125
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: doesn't have any HD, I actually loved some of those

1126
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: tips just for like genuine as, like as someone who

1127
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: works by themselves and can get distracted very easily. Like

1128
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: they're just so helpful. Where can people find you and

1129
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: where can people find shimmer?

1130
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 2: Shimmer is at Shimmer dot care and I'm at INSTAGRAMADHD

1131
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 2: dot Crystal, and yeah, just head to our website. That's

1132
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: the easiest way to learn about what we do, whether

1133
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: you or someone you know has ADHD. We have the

1134
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 2: ADHD for Adults program, and then we have the ADHD

1135
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: for Teens program, so all sorts of behavioral supports and

1136
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 2: community supports. The goal is really just for everyone with

1137
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 2: ADHD to reach their full potential and also reach it

1138
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: in their own way that works for them.

1139
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: Which I just think is amazing. Well, it was such

1140
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you on board. Remember guys to

1141
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: go and check Chris out and all of her work.

1142
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: It's fantastic And if you enjoyed this episode, give us

1143
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: a five star review, share it with a friend who

1144
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: you think might need to hear it, and follow us

1145
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: on Instagram at that Psychology podcast if you want to

1146
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: give any feedback, if you have any further questions or

1147
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: thoughts about this episode or any other episodes, if you

1148
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: want us to expand on anything we talked about, or

1149
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: if you just want to see behind the scenes, we'd

1150
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 1: love to have you over there. But until next time,

1151
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: stay safe, bekind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk

1152
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: very very soon.