Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guest. What's up with your Brodie with
Speaker 1: the virtual headshake? I'm gonna tell you something that I
Speaker 1: never told you back. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition of All the Smoke. Jack, what's happening
Speaker 1: out there, my brother? What's up with yah? I can't
Speaker 1: call it. How's the weather out there is getting any
Speaker 1: better out that way? And the sunny came out? Baby?
Speaker 1: It's nice out of here. Absolutely, It's always nice out here. Jack.
Speaker 1: I wanted to commend you on how you're able to
Speaker 1: keep your your ensemble together. But still you have nice
Speaker 1: little fashion fly either the Jay's or the hats of
Speaker 1: the jewelry you make. You make it look good, bro,
Speaker 1: you make it look good. Hey man, Hey, one thing
Speaker 1: about it, matt Uh. Even though I'm a Muslim, that
Speaker 1: don't mean I can't be flies. I'm gonna be flying.
Speaker 1: It's always regardless, regardless. Well anyway, man, we got a
Speaker 1: good a special guest today. Um to me one of
Speaker 1: the most underrated players in the game. Uh, since he
Speaker 1: stepped in in the NBA. UM. You know, it's been
Speaker 1: a pleasure to watch him. Got a chance to play
Speaker 1: with them against him a little bit at the end
Speaker 1: of my career. But welcome to the show, c J McCollum,
Speaker 1: c J, thanks for joining us. Bro. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: having me on. I've been watching for some years now,
Speaker 1: so I'm appreciated. Guys. Man, we we all fan we
Speaker 1: fans on YouTube, bro, so it's only right we get
Speaker 1: this time. Hell yeah, you're gonna get to it. Um
Speaker 1: was pretty much a disaster for all of us, starting
Speaker 1: with you know, obviously Cobe going down at the end
Speaker 1: of January. What was one thing you took from positive negative?
Speaker 1: What did you take from I think the importance of
Speaker 1: enjoying your time with loved ones. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: COVID wasn't ideal. It hasn't been a great situation for us,
Speaker 1: but it's taught us the importance of families. It's tall
Speaker 1: us the importance of connecting with your loved ones because
Speaker 1: time is short, man, you never know what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: and I'll try to take advantage of Like I just
Speaker 1: had to leave it go COVID test in the middle
Speaker 1: of your show. You know what I'm saying, Like, that's
Speaker 1: the world we're living in now. But I still can
Speaker 1: tap in with my grandma. I still can tap in
Speaker 1: with people to just kind of check on them and
Speaker 1: see how they're doing, because you never know. So, Uh,
Speaker 1: you go down with the foot injury the middle of January.
Speaker 1: What has the recovery been? Like, Um, how are you
Speaker 1: where you at with the recovery and and do you
Speaker 1: have a somewhat of a timetable on when you expect
Speaker 1: to return? Yeah, it's been. It was tough, man. I
Speaker 1: was playing the best basketball in my career. We were
Speaker 1: playing well, and I was in position to do some
Speaker 1: things I probably haven't done yeah in my career. But
Speaker 1: it's just unfortunate situation that occurred. I've been heard before,
Speaker 1: so understanding the process of rehappened. It's more so mentally.
Speaker 1: Physically we're good at everything, like we can overcome most things.
Speaker 1: It's just about mentally staying engage, taking care of my body,
Speaker 1: not rushing it with this being my third injury. So
Speaker 1: it's it's been the first four weeks was rough man
Speaker 1: in the boot washing and your team play Um, that's
Speaker 1: it's always hard to to kind of go through that,
Speaker 1: but once you get that boot off, you kind of
Speaker 1: hit the ground running and are able to do more stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm in the transition phase. In five weeks. In
Speaker 1: a few days in that it will be six weeks.
Speaker 1: On Saturday, they basically gave me a reevaluated four weeks,
Speaker 1: revocuate that six weeks, and then kind of go from there. Um,
Speaker 1: I feel stronger. I'll probably start doing more on court
Speaker 1: stuff these next few days in terms of like working
Speaker 1: out and progressing. But I'm gonna take my time. Man,
Speaker 1: I don't want to mess with with this with just
Speaker 1: being my third injury. We're playing well. Young guys are
Speaker 1: getting a chance to show what they have to offer,
Speaker 1: which is great, and I've been in their shoes before,
Speaker 1: so I'm glad they're taking advantage of it. And I'll probably,
Speaker 1: you know, see how I'll see how I feel at
Speaker 1: the six week market and take it from there, but
Speaker 1: it could be a few more weeks. That's impressive that
Speaker 1: you're being smart like that because us as players, you know,
Speaker 1: we want to get back to get back on the court,
Speaker 1: and I know it's real challenging for you to be
Speaker 1: sitting on the sideline knowing you almost there, seeing your
Speaker 1: team go to walk, you know, and you've not been
Speaker 1: able to do that. We've all been through it. But
Speaker 1: I know it takes a lot to be smart with yourself,
Speaker 1: you know it saying hold yourself back because I know
Speaker 1: you want to get out there as soon as you can. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: whenever I started shooting and working down, it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: I think I'm good, but it's like, no, you gotta
Speaker 1: follow the protocol all the timeline and understand that you'll
Speaker 1: be better in the long run once you make sure
Speaker 1: everything is healed properly. Yeah, And I'm sure it's tough too.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you're you're on pace for to accomplish
Speaker 1: things you haven't accomplished yet in your career and you
Speaker 1: go down. But I think, like like I said, the
Speaker 1: piggyback off of Jack, what's feet are dangerous? You mean feet?
Speaker 1: And you know that ankle and below is something dangerous.
Speaker 1: You know. You see Graham Hill and some guys having
Speaker 1: the you know, similar injuries that you had that that
Speaker 1: that rushed back and you know what could possibly in
Speaker 1: their career. So it's good you take your time, and
Speaker 1: we are sometimes our own worst enemy from a standpoint
Speaker 1: that we are. The competitive nature of us want to
Speaker 1: get back out there and play, but we know for
Speaker 1: the betterment of our body, it's it's a marathon, not
Speaker 1: a sprint. So I'm glad you're taking your time with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think you learned from trial and error. Man,
Speaker 1: it's my my third foot fracture, So I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't did everything you can do in terms of the
Speaker 1: rehab process, in terms of when the transition is coming back. So, uh,
Speaker 1: there's the only difference now is that I got a
Speaker 1: lot more money in the bank. What a cushion? What
Speaker 1: a cushion now with the same same foot, different same
Speaker 1: same foot. Yeah, so it's correct. Like my my senior
Speaker 1: year in college, I'll go back to school for my
Speaker 1: senior year and I end up breaking my fifth metator,
Speaker 1: so non contact injury, so they think I had a
Speaker 1: stress structure. They didn't know. I get the surgery season,
Speaker 1: senior seasons over, I get drafted by the Blazers last
Speaker 1: day at training camp, right before the inter squad scrimage
Speaker 1: in front of fans. I meant it were in a
Speaker 1: non contact practice like doing hedge hedges on ball screens
Speaker 1: and Buddy hedges out and I step on his foot
Speaker 1: and I break my foot into non contact practice the
Speaker 1: same foot. This time, I didn't I didn't have to
Speaker 1: get surgery. I found a doctor basically said there's another
Speaker 1: procedure I can do to where it's less it's less invasive.
Speaker 1: They take some some blood from your hips been around,
Speaker 1: ejected in your foot, and then I got some shockwave
Speaker 1: therapy and I was in a boot for two weeks
Speaker 1: instead of the three months. And then I progressed back
Speaker 1: in three months. And then this time, same foot, different bone.
Speaker 1: It's like a more rare fracture middle of the foot
Speaker 1: because of the trauma of Capella landing on me, like
Speaker 1: two fifty pounds with it whatever he weighs, he just
Speaker 1: kind of trapp trap my foot and it just there's
Speaker 1: a small fracture in the middle. And then I sprang
Speaker 1: some ligaments. But the bone is actually hell, it's just
Speaker 1: more so like waiting on the ligaments. I've been there,
Speaker 1: bro I was. I got drafted, and uh. When I
Speaker 1: first took my physical they told me I had stretched
Speaker 1: fractures and both of my feet and in my fifth
Speaker 1: meta toss and they both was gonna break and they
Speaker 1: both end up breaking, one doing trials and one planning overseas.
Speaker 1: But my my feet hell completely. But it just sucks
Speaker 1: because it seems like you never know when the time
Speaker 1: it's gonna be when it happened. Man, that's what killed me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: timing is always the worst. Like you play, you play
Speaker 1: your best basketball are you're trying to get to the
Speaker 1: league or you're trying to make the team where you
Speaker 1: trying to solidify yourself, and then that's when you know
Speaker 1: you get that best setback. But I think from a
Speaker 1: character ability standpoint, it helps you appreciate things like I
Speaker 1: really appreciate the little stuff like walking to the bathroom,
Speaker 1: standing up in the shower, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: when that's taking away from you, you really start to
Speaker 1: stop taking things for granted. Now in in between, because
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was the third injury to the
Speaker 1: same foot. Are you in pain with that or you know,
Speaker 1: once it heals, it's it gets kind of feeling better. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I I wasn't even in pain when I
Speaker 1: when I broke it unless I walked. So that's why
Speaker 1: it's crazy because it happened in the in the first quarter,
Speaker 1: and I end up playing ten more minutes. So like
Speaker 1: I played eight and ten more minutes, and I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: this kind of hurts, you know what I'm saying. At
Speaker 1: halftime like we'll look at it like that. That's how
Speaker 1: it cats. Like I have a time, like we'll take
Speaker 1: a look at it. And then a halftime I told
Speaker 1: D I said, I was like, bro, this ship hurt.
Speaker 1: I said, after this game, I might be I might
Speaker 1: be down for a little bit. But I was just thinking,
Speaker 1: like two weeks, you know what I'm saying. The week
Speaker 1: I go through the I go X ray a halftime,
Speaker 1: X ray comes back, no fracture, and get m R
Speaker 1: I and Maria comes back. You're good, It's just a spring.
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking I'm gonna be out for like a
Speaker 1: spring foot like two weeks, ten days. The next day,
Speaker 1: doctor calls on the other doctors like, yo, I think
Speaker 1: I think there's a fracture in his foot. He got
Speaker 1: to come back and skin again. So that's when I
Speaker 1: had to go back and skin. After I told my mama,
Speaker 1: my grandma, my dad, like it's just a sprain. I'm good.
Speaker 1: I had to go go back to the next day
Speaker 1: for them to tell me, like you got you gotta
Speaker 1: fracture in your foot. And I'm like a fracture, like
Speaker 1: how long? And they like could be four weeks, could
Speaker 1: be six weeks, could be eight weeks. I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a big that's a big window, bro, Like,
Speaker 1: can you give me some more like but you know
Speaker 1: it is what it is? No pain now. Like I've
Speaker 1: been progressing on the court ball handling, I've been lifting
Speaker 1: trap our squad line, just loading the foot to try
Speaker 1: to get it stronger, make sure that the balance and
Speaker 1: strength is there on both sides, that there's no compensation.
Speaker 1: So we've just been measuring, um, the force I can
Speaker 1: I can put out on each foot and how I'm walking,
Speaker 1: how how m loading it without moving around. It's important man,
Speaker 1: Damn well, we wish you the best with that. Man,
Speaker 1: get back healthy and definitely take your time. I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like you guys have been a team that
Speaker 1: has always been hit by injury bug and it's always
Speaker 1: the next man up mentality UM with you and Nert
Speaker 1: down this year. How important as the contributions of Mellow
Speaker 1: and Trent and canteror been to your guys team to
Speaker 1: kind of keep you guys afloat until you know the
Speaker 1: cavalry comes back. Yeah, that's why we brought melow in
Speaker 1: Um last season. We know what to expect from him.
Speaker 1: His greatness speaks for her self. His ability to score.
Speaker 1: I think his leadership is is under valued aspect of
Speaker 1: his game. Him having so much experience, having a presence
Speaker 1: in the locker room, being able to do stuff pre
Speaker 1: COVID when we could go out, you know, have dinner,
Speaker 1: have those conversations about how the game has shifted. Those
Speaker 1: things are extremely important. And this is one of the
Speaker 1: best big man in the league. And I think he
Speaker 1: doesn't get enough credit for his consistency. Like you know,
Speaker 1: if he plays fifteen and twenty minutes, he given you
Speaker 1: seven to fifths rebounds every night. He doesn't complain. He's
Speaker 1: got great footwork into policy scores. He's like the ultimate
Speaker 1: teammate and g trained. I'm really happy for him because
Speaker 1: of his story. Pops played in the league second round
Speaker 1: pick comes out of the the duke as the way his
Speaker 1: turn you know, ensued every day. Even though he's playing
Speaker 1: well in practice, is not getting the chance to play
Speaker 1: in games, and then he gets a chance, it takes
Speaker 1: advantage of a t A t A has a situation
Speaker 1: where he doesn't make it to the bubble riding hood
Speaker 1: Terraces Achilles. And he plays well last year, which you know,
Speaker 1: gives him momentum going into this season. And I go
Speaker 1: down and he continues to elevate his level of play,
Speaker 1: which is great timing for him with him being a
Speaker 1: contract year, and then also great timing for our team.
Speaker 1: And I always tell him, I was like, look, man,
Speaker 1: I know what it's like for somebody to play your
Speaker 1: position and hate on you like I ain't. I ain't one.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I want you to make
Speaker 1: as much money as possible. I want you to be
Speaker 1: as great as possible, because it's gonna reflect on like
Speaker 1: my like what I did, Like did I hold you
Speaker 1: back or did I empower you? And I always tell him,
Speaker 1: it's enough out here for everybody. It's enough for everybody
Speaker 1: to the pacts. He talked about Mellow and what he
Speaker 1: brings to the team and how good a teammate is.
Speaker 1: What kind of give me some advice that he's giving
Speaker 1: you doing the time, doing your time playing together. Man,
Speaker 1: I think the basketball stuff is what it is, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, the work ethic to getting their
Speaker 1: early standing late importance of taking care of your body.
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta chef, I gotta do all of
Speaker 1: that stuff. But it's more so the the time management.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of different things that he does
Speaker 1: in his spare time. He's got the West in your glass,
Speaker 1: He's on the Social Change Fund, like, he's doing a
Speaker 1: lot in the community, So just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: tapping in, Like I'm big on education reform, right, he's
Speaker 1: big on prison reform. So being able to kind of
Speaker 1: better understand some of the things he's trying to accomplish
Speaker 1: in that realm, being able to speak to what he's doing,
Speaker 1: you know, and be more what it's like they're like,
Speaker 1: what's going on some of the documentaries that he's doing,
Speaker 1: Untold stories. I think there's just so many different elements
Speaker 1: that like I'm trying to like absorb from a storytelling
Speaker 1: standpoint to it now information standpoint that we just talked
Speaker 1: about everything man to drinking, drinking wine to chilling. It's
Speaker 1: just like great conversations on you know, how to become
Speaker 1: a better version of yourself, which is I think it
Speaker 1: is It's key. Basketball is what it is, like you
Speaker 1: can or you can't. You know what to do after
Speaker 1: you know, five years three three or five years in
Speaker 1: the league, you kind of figure out how to succeed
Speaker 1: and like how how to keep how to keep yourself there.
Speaker 1: But then it's just more so what happens next, Like
Speaker 1: what do you do when when it's time to transition
Speaker 1: and mentally are you ready for for life without basketball?
Speaker 1: It's a whole new world. But we spoke to this
Speaker 1: on the show in the past, but it's just like
Speaker 1: what is Mello? Probably Jack, do we know how old
Speaker 1: us you gotta be? You gotta be thirty six least,
Speaker 1: but you gotta think like we don't. There's not that
Speaker 1: many I love to hear just that you know the
Speaker 1: game you've been able to soak up from because there's
Speaker 1: not really vets of his age around Hi where there's
Speaker 1: probably a handful. Like when me and Jack first came
Speaker 1: in the league, that's what the game was. There were
Speaker 1: so many bets to kind of soak up game and
Speaker 1: and do you know, obviously you're in your eighth year,
Speaker 1: but I said, just experience is the best teacher, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? In the league is so young
Speaker 1: now that it's rare to get those moments with the Vets.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, you know, a superstar sooner,
Speaker 1: you know, first bout Hall of Famer Vets. So I
Speaker 1: think that that kind of that kind of back and
Speaker 1: forth is missed in the game now, and you're lucky
Speaker 1: to be able to get something like that. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, it's it's priceless. He's got eighteen years of
Speaker 1: being in the league, hitting shots twenty six, twenty something
Speaker 1: thousand points. It is ridiculous what he's been able to
Speaker 1: experience and see and then just to be able to
Speaker 1: to maintain, you know, self belief. You know, when you
Speaker 1: go through I say, I said he was banned from
Speaker 1: the league for a little bit. You go from being vanished,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, to where you know you
Speaker 1: belong and people turn it back on you. How to
Speaker 1: respond to it to being ready when your when your
Speaker 1: time comes, we pick him up. And I mean first game,
Speaker 1: I think you had twenty you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like to be able to get out over be out
Speaker 1: for a year, come back like nothing happened. Like you're
Speaker 1: taking a special type of person to be able to
Speaker 1: withstand the downs, the ups is whatever, like put them
Speaker 1: downs are really breaking? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, good call um.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on him and you mentioned, you know, twenty tho
Speaker 1: plus points. Thoughts on him passing answer Robinson, you know
Speaker 1: for twelfth off time and I think I was looking
Speaker 1: at some numbers. He has a chance before he's done
Speaker 1: to possibly get to the top ten. It's crazy, like
Speaker 1: to even be saying this. You know, you grew up
Speaker 1: watching and you see the triple Devil, Like when you
Speaker 1: think of triple w you think of Russ and Oscar,
Speaker 1: but you think of Oscar first because he was the
Speaker 1: one establishing, you know, how to how to average a
Speaker 1: triple Devil consistently, you know, just about every night. And
Speaker 1: then to see some of these legends, Dominique like he
Speaker 1: passed Dominique, Like that's crazy, Like to beat a teammate
Speaker 1: with somebody who you watch as a kid kind of
Speaker 1: growing up, and then you become his teammate and he's
Speaker 1: still breaking records and still polished and still got the
Speaker 1: same like same isms, like the moves are all the same.
Speaker 1: You know, eighteen years later, what is unique about your team?
Speaker 1: I'm although you've only been on this team since you've
Speaker 1: been a pro. But your mental toughness, your mentality, your
Speaker 1: ability to stay together when you lose stars or or
Speaker 1: key members of this team. Like I said, I I
Speaker 1: touched on it earlier, But what is that? Is there
Speaker 1: a person? Is there a model? Is it the organization?
Speaker 1: What keeps you guys one? Um? When sometimes with the
Speaker 1: situation you guys have been presented, some teams will go
Speaker 1: on to islands. I think it's a combination of things.
Speaker 1: You look at our leadership, um, look at who we
Speaker 1: have in place. You know, you look at that and
Speaker 1: he's solid. You know what I'm saying. He's always steady.
Speaker 1: He's the right type of captain. He's not the type
Speaker 1: of pilot who's gonna go back there and be like, Yo,
Speaker 1: the the plane going down. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like the pilot come back there and start panicking, everybody panic.
Speaker 1: I think that his even killedness and his work at
Speaker 1: the rubs off on the rest of us. And then
Speaker 1: you look at the top of the organization, from our gyms,
Speaker 1: to our presidents, to our owners, to our coaching staff.
Speaker 1: They believe in empowerment, they believe in our culture, they
Speaker 1: believe in continue to develop guys, and we go after
Speaker 1: certain types of players who myself like underdogs, who who
Speaker 1: got something to prove, who had to work for everything
Speaker 1: they got in life. I wasn't a five star. I
Speaker 1: didn't go to McDonald's all American nothing, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I was taking ice, bass and trash cans.
Speaker 1: I had, you know, two pairs of shoes that who
Speaker 1: been for the season, and then they might give you
Speaker 1: something for the instable a tournament. Like that's how we
Speaker 1: got to this point. So now when you get all
Speaker 1: of these resources around you that back you. You got
Speaker 1: twenty four hour access to a gym where I used
Speaker 1: to have to sneak in the gym because we used
Speaker 1: our our oxygen for wrestling, and then we also took
Speaker 1: exams in it, you know what I'm saying. At my university,
Speaker 1: so I used to have to move the chairs so
Speaker 1: I can shoot free throws, I can get to my
Speaker 1: midi and I can get to like certain spots at
Speaker 1: the three point line. But now I got a team
Speaker 1: of suits, Like, how can I fail with all of
Speaker 1: these resources you know, set up for me to succeed.
Speaker 1: And I think our appreciation for the game is is
Speaker 1: different because we we had to to outwork everybody to
Speaker 1: get to this point, and we still outwork people to
Speaker 1: this day. I love it you just touched on a
Speaker 1: little bit but explained, dame. I mean, we know what
Speaker 1: kind of player he is, but as a leader, you know,
Speaker 1: you said that the pilot, that that the captain explained him,
Speaker 1: and and and what you've learned and tried to apply
Speaker 1: to yourself. I think he's unapologetically himself, which is important. Um,
Speaker 1: he don't fake the fund. If he don't like you,
Speaker 1: he don't like you. When you go compete, he go compete.
Speaker 1: And when he go home, he take care of his
Speaker 1: family and do what needs to be done. And I
Speaker 1: think from a work ethics standpoint, it's obvious he works
Speaker 1: on his his craft because of how consistent he is.
Speaker 1: But then because of how he's able to involve from
Speaker 1: his passing to his court vision, to his understanding of
Speaker 1: how to manipulate a defense, to his range to his movements,
Speaker 1: like everything is is precise and it's not like it's random,
Speaker 1: and it's not like he just does random ship like
Speaker 1: he works on he works on his dips, he works
Speaker 1: on his side step threes, he works on his logo threes,
Speaker 1: he works on his how to draw fouls, he works
Speaker 1: on how to how to uh manipulate a game in
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter. And then we talk about it like
Speaker 1: all what play is to be? Like down the stretch?
Speaker 1: What are you seeing? And the other important aspect of
Speaker 1: being great is allowing people to hold you accountable. If
Speaker 1: he's fucking up, I'm gonna be like, bro, you gotta
Speaker 1: tighten up or come on, turn it up like or
Speaker 1: no excuses. And when we go down, I look at him,
Speaker 1: it's like, little bro, I might be hurt, nor it
Speaker 1: might be hurt, but you know what time it is
Speaker 1: like nobody's gonna look at you and say, oh, your
Speaker 1: your players are hurt. You know they're gonna look at
Speaker 1: you and say, can he carry a team by himself?
Speaker 1: Whereas for other guys they might make excuses and like
Speaker 1: their rosters this or their rosters that know what makes
Speaker 1: excuses for him? And and I think that's awesome what
Speaker 1: motivates him because he puts up numbers. We win games.
Speaker 1: Like you said, We've been here eight years, I've never
Speaker 1: not played in the playoffs. But no one really talks
Speaker 1: about that. They just want to compare you say, are
Speaker 1: you winning the championship or are you not? And it's like, no,
Speaker 1: we're not, but who but who? Who? Who actually is
Speaker 1: when the championships? People are right right, Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: We love it though. Like I said, dam Is Damon
Speaker 1: has been solid from day one, and I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of you guys as a as a duel in
Speaker 1: the back court and looking forward to both y'all getting
Speaker 1: back out there on the court. Yeah, we we and
Speaker 1: we love how y'all play off each other. I think
Speaker 1: that's one thing that I like, how y'all play off
Speaker 1: each other. But take take take me through this scenario
Speaker 1: right quick, fourth quarter? Both you and him both got
Speaker 1: thirty two, it's two seconds left. What's what? What's that?
Speaker 1: What's the conversation? Like in the hull of talking to
Speaker 1: me c J. So it depends sometimes, So it just
Speaker 1: depends on the moment. Like sometimes it's like coach draws
Speaker 1: the play and he's like, Dame or c JO get
Speaker 1: the ball. So that's his way saying like y'all gotta
Speaker 1: figure that shot out. Or sometimes he'll sometimes he'll be
Speaker 1: like like if Dame, if Dame is really killing, like
Speaker 1: I'd be like we'll get the ball, but if you
Speaker 1: can't get it, I'm coming for like that, or if
Speaker 1: it's just like a free play, like a couple of
Speaker 1: times you might be down one you need to stop,
Speaker 1: and then it's a rebound like whoever, whoever did it? Go? Bro?
Speaker 1: Like I'm comfortable with you taking the game? When are
Speaker 1: you comfortable with me taking it? Mr? I know the work,
Speaker 1: I know the work behind the scenes, so like I ain't,
Speaker 1: I ain't tripping. So we usually handle it that way,
Speaker 1: like whoever really rolled? Like we both got we both
Speaker 1: averaged then their thirties, so we're both gonna have close
Speaker 1: to thirty. So it's just a matter of match up
Speaker 1: like who's checking you? And then like time and score,
Speaker 1: like how much time is left? And let's say he
Speaker 1: shoots it and he misses it or or whatever, we're
Speaker 1: going to overtime. Then next time he'll be looking at
Speaker 1: me like he wants it again, but I'll be looking
Speaker 1: like it's my turn. That's how we do it. But
Speaker 1: he's the type of guy like if I'm hot, he'll
Speaker 1: be like he'll like, damon, c J. Well got the huddle.
Speaker 1: He'll be like, go get it, or I'll be like, bro,
Speaker 1: he I've seen the looking buddy's eyes finished finished the game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like y'all your own biggest you know, supporters
Speaker 1: and fans, and that's how it's gotta be. It's gotta
Speaker 1: be a healthy option for a coach to have two
Speaker 1: motherfucker's you know, close games that you really know the
Speaker 1: close games right, And we didn't run it from it
Speaker 1: like some people from it. It's like I want to
Speaker 1: miss the shot at the end because I can go
Speaker 1: handle the press conference like I can go handle like
Speaker 1: what comes with that failure. Everybody can't handle that. So
Speaker 1: I think both we're both comfortable with the success and
Speaker 1: I can get down with failure too because I know
Speaker 1: and that's the part of building, building you up for
Speaker 1: the next opportunity. There was opportunity for Dave Vanderpool to
Speaker 1: be could possibly become the Minnesota head coach. Last week
Speaker 1: he was looked over. They hired someone from Toronto. Dame
Speaker 1: spoke out. Everyone's kind of speaking out, what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that whole entire process. Obviously I look at
Speaker 1: it two sides. Obviously there's an issue, but then at
Speaker 1: the same time I look at it as how are
Speaker 1: you going to tell a billion dollar owner who they
Speaker 1: can and can't hire? Um? But I'll let you explain
Speaker 1: your side and then we'll pick back up after that.
Speaker 1: I think it's a double edged sward, because, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm not mad at the decision they made, I'm mad
Speaker 1: at how they made it. Everybody you have it could
Speaker 1: have hired a guy who's pink. I don't really care
Speaker 1: about the race in this particular situation. It's about the
Speaker 1: process us that occurred. You have a coach who's who's
Speaker 1: there a young coach, Saunders. He gets fired, he's thirty
Speaker 1: four years old. You have associate head coach and waiting,
Speaker 1: and typically you know, when you fire someone, the associate
Speaker 1: head coach assumes the head coaching position and then eventually
Speaker 1: you open up the role, you open up the search. Right,
Speaker 1: the fact that they fired a guy in mid season,
Speaker 1: ten to fourteen days before All Star break was an
Speaker 1: interesting decision. But once again, the ownership group, the team,
Speaker 1: the organization has a right to do whatever they want.
Speaker 1: I have no problem with that. I have a problem
Speaker 1: with how they how they disrespected the person in position
Speaker 1: to potentially take over in the interim. You don't have
Speaker 1: to hire him full time, but to not let him
Speaker 1: coach one game to fly another coach in. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: this is the finesse, the finesse was was written on
Speaker 1: the wall because they played They played in Tampa against
Speaker 1: the Raptors and away home games, so they played away,
Speaker 1: so they probably interview Buddy behind the scenes there. Then
Speaker 1: they traveled back to Minnesota and played the Raptors again,
Speaker 1: and then the next day they fired a coach and
Speaker 1: hired Buddy from from the Raptors. And I think people
Speaker 1: got confused with our anger. My anger isn't that the
Speaker 1: guy that got hired. Congratulations, kudos to you, Like whatever
Speaker 1: it is, what it is. I just feel like the
Speaker 1: disrespect that's that's pointed towards the black specifically is outrageous.
Speaker 1: Um would they have done that to a white man
Speaker 1: who knows right, Like, I don't know. Maybe they would have,
Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't. I haven't seen it. I just have
Speaker 1: a problem with the process of not allowing the guy
Speaker 1: who's who's been working his tail off, who's shown that
Speaker 1: he's capable of doing things, not get a chance to coach,
Speaker 1: to coach a couple games, like I'm gonna hire my
Speaker 1: boy too, like I'm gonna keep it a hunter, like
Speaker 1: I'll get in a position to be a gym. I'm
Speaker 1: hiring who I want to hire. But if there's a
Speaker 1: person in waiting who has a chance to kind of
Speaker 1: show what they have to offer to the rest of
Speaker 1: the world, I'm gonna give him a chance a couple
Speaker 1: of games out of respected inspect maybe maybe you let
Speaker 1: him coach to the all start break and you just
Speaker 1: let him know, like, hey, I got a guy in
Speaker 1: a position that i'm gonna hire, but out of respect
Speaker 1: to you, I'm gonna let you coach to the break.
Speaker 1: Then this guy's coming in and take over. But they
Speaker 1: didn't do that. They didn't communicate to their franchise. Kar
Speaker 1: Anthony Towns had no idea what was happening. I think
Speaker 1: it's just malpractice. How they handled the situation is disrespectful
Speaker 1: to to the organization. It's disrespectful to the man in
Speaker 1: waiting who's worked his tail off and it is deserving
Speaker 1: of it. And then the manipulation that that probably went
Speaker 1: on to where you got a guy who's they're very
Speaker 1: good at player development. I've been with him for a
Speaker 1: long time. Things been on for a long time. Those
Speaker 1: is excellent, excellent, os understands how to get the best
Speaker 1: out of players, but probably wasn't trying to step on
Speaker 1: the head coach's toes and kind of play the role
Speaker 1: thinking that like, all right, I just played my role.
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to get anybody's
Speaker 1: way only to get passed up anyway. It's just a
Speaker 1: it's just a disrespectful situation in which it makes me dislike,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the processes that go behind bass
Speaker 1: the ball, because when it comes to blacks and African Americans,
Speaker 1: we don't get the benefit of the doubt ever in anything.
Speaker 1: What's frustrated to is is like with everything that's going on,
Speaker 1: like one thing, you can't never tell the owner who
Speaker 1: to hire. But with everything that's going on, when you
Speaker 1: have so many black players, when you have a chance
Speaker 1: to put your fingerprint on equality, why not take that chance?
Speaker 1: And then then again, we as players, we've seen we've
Speaker 1: seen guys come straight from the film room to head
Speaker 1: coaching jobs. We've seen this in the NBA many of times,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And and and people want
Speaker 1: to make it about everything. It's not, no, it's about
Speaker 1: none of that. But it's it's about what's right, is right?
Speaker 1: What's going on the day everybody talking about equality. You've
Speaker 1: been an owner of team knowing that you can, you
Speaker 1: can have a footprint in equality, and why not go
Speaker 1: that way? And not only that he is qualified, he
Speaker 1: is qualified. Yeah, you're not doing him charity. It's not
Speaker 1: a charity came right, You're not doing them a favor, man.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what frustrates everybody. When you know
Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do, why not do the
Speaker 1: right thing right? And and I'll say it again, I'm
Speaker 1: not even saying they had to hire DV. I'm saying
Speaker 1: I'm saying that though. I'm saying that though, because nine
Speaker 1: out of ten times, if it's a white coach sitting
Speaker 1: there and he is the sistant head coach, he's getting
Speaker 1: the shot to at least coach one game or two.
Speaker 1: And that's just the facts, bro. Like I said, I see,
Speaker 1: I've been on teams. Well, I've seen the guy in
Speaker 1: the film room and two days later here on the bench,
Speaker 1: Like I've seen this happen with my own eyes. So
Speaker 1: as you can't tell me that DV does not deserve
Speaker 1: to be in that spot. But it's bullshit, and I
Speaker 1: say it, There's there's no doubt about it. It's bullshit.
Speaker 1: They finessed them, they got over on them, and they've
Speaker 1: been doing this for years. I think that I think
Speaker 1: that how they did this one is what really triggered
Speaker 1: a lot of people, because he's beyond qualified to take
Speaker 1: over full time. Three. You renegotiate a deal, but the
Speaker 1: fact that they didn't even open after search, getting open
Speaker 1: it up at all didn't give You didn't give people
Speaker 1: that exist there a chance, people that have put their
Speaker 1: time in a chance. You didn't give other applicants who
Speaker 1: may have qualified for the position chance. You gave nobody
Speaker 1: a chance. You already hand picked it. It's just if
Speaker 1: you didn't even talk to your key players, you didn't
Speaker 1: match your key players. It's found cold, gang. But like
Speaker 1: you said, this has been happening. It is just the
Speaker 1: fact that it was it was so foul that it
Speaker 1: had to be discussed. Um, take us back to your
Speaker 1: upbringing Canton, Ohio obviously where the Pro Football Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame is. UM, tell me about you, know, your childhood
Speaker 1: and when you first got into sports. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: grew up in Canton, Ohio like you said before my
Speaker 1: parents were divorced at three years old and living my
Speaker 1: mom full time. Dad was down the street. He was
Speaker 1: he was very involved. But I think the the thing
Speaker 1: that really helped me is that there's not a lot
Speaker 1: to do. And ken uh, in general, you play football,
Speaker 1: you play basketball, if you guys you played baseball, and
Speaker 1: and people in the streets and there's people that play sports,
Speaker 1: and there's the steel mill. You basically pick a career
Speaker 1: field and you can dedicate yourself to it because ain't
Speaker 1: nothing else to do. For me, I lived in the
Speaker 1: area that that wasn't the best. I always say I
Speaker 1: grew up down the street from the hood, so like
Speaker 1: I could see what was happening, and if I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a part of it, I could be a
Speaker 1: part of it. But I had another space, had enough
Speaker 1: space where I was at to kind of like lay
Speaker 1: low and stay out the way. And my brother was
Speaker 1: was huge and influencing me and making sure I was
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. So I was the type of
Speaker 1: kid that could have easily went left. He made sure
Speaker 1: I stayed right. In terms of preparation, work ethic help
Speaker 1: me with my homework. My mom preached the importance of grades,
Speaker 1: and at an early age, I heard my dad basically
Speaker 1: told us like, we can't afford to pay for your school,
Speaker 1: so either you get really good grades or you get
Speaker 1: really nice in sports. Those are your two choices. So
Speaker 1: I got decent grades, and then I tried to get
Speaker 1: as nice as possible in basketball, and I started off.
Speaker 1: I was very good early, but I was very small,
Speaker 1: and I think my story is pretty well known. My
Speaker 1: freshman year high school, I was five two eight pounds
Speaker 1: and I was still I was nice. I played three
Speaker 1: quarters two quarters varsity and I was like twenty points
Speaker 1: and three quarters. And then I basically backed up my
Speaker 1: brother when he was a senior, so I didn't play much.
Speaker 1: My sophomore year, I was supposed to start, and they
Speaker 1: ended up starting this this kid whose dad was on
Speaker 1: the the Booster club. I went to a school that
Speaker 1: was majority white, and I end up only averaging six
Speaker 1: points a game. And at that moment, I had to
Speaker 1: make a decision. I was about five seven hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty pounds and I had to make a decision. It
Speaker 1: was like, all right, do you commit yourself to academics
Speaker 1: or do you commit yourself to who? Because you got
Speaker 1: two years after get a scholarship, Moms already said she
Speaker 1: can't pay for it. And I almost quit because it
Speaker 1: was so frustrating that I had to work. You know,
Speaker 1: at the same goes, you had to work twice as
Speaker 1: hard as the man in front of you because of
Speaker 1: circumstances and situation as to who they were, and and
Speaker 1: you're not getting your fair shape. So I worked hard
Speaker 1: to a decade myself to the game, and I went
Speaker 1: from averaging six points a game but twenty and I
Speaker 1: broke the school record of my first career start. I
Speaker 1: scored fifty four points in eight threes. And my my
Speaker 1: first career started my junior year and Lehi sent me
Speaker 1: a letter the next day, and I had never heard
Speaker 1: le hired. But I was just happy, like a Division
Speaker 1: one school, like I thought I was nice. So I
Speaker 1: went through the recruiting process end up committing to going
Speaker 1: to le High. But the moral of the story is,
Speaker 1: you know, I almost almost gave this game up because
Speaker 1: someone took away my joy. So, like what I tell
Speaker 1: kids all the time is, don't let nobody steal your joy.
Speaker 1: People gonna tell you can't do it. They're gonna tell
Speaker 1: you it's impossible. They're gonna give your statistics. As soon
Speaker 1: as I committed to Lee High, everybody talked about how
Speaker 1: that was the wrong decision. No one's ever gone pro
Speaker 1: from there before. Why is he going there? Why didn't
Speaker 1: he stay local? Why did he go to the MAC?
Speaker 1: I said, look, it was already written for me to
Speaker 1: do this. Um, I'm going to Bethlehem. I believe in
Speaker 1: my Lord's Savior, Jesus Christ. I work on my game
Speaker 1: every day, and I said, somebody got to go pro,
Speaker 1: like somebody gotta go pro from here, So it's gonna
Speaker 1: be me. And that was just my approach. And it's
Speaker 1: it's crazy, how like people that you trust, people that
Speaker 1: you look up to, teachers, staff, they don't see a dream.
Speaker 1: They don't believe in your dream. You have to, you
Speaker 1: have to really speak it into existence. Then go work
Speaker 1: for unapologetic and unbothered by the crowds. Because if I
Speaker 1: would have listened to the feedback I got from my peers,
Speaker 1: my own AU coach to this day, he said that
Speaker 1: I was a Division two player at best, but he
Speaker 1: didn't tell me. He told my mama. My mom didn't
Speaker 1: tell me till I got my first scholarship offer. She says, like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to discourage you.
Speaker 1: I felt like he would destroy you. I said, no,
Speaker 1: I would have got a scholarship offer earlier. If I
Speaker 1: don't know what this. No, he was talking about bad
Speaker 1: on me like that. But like that's the kind of
Speaker 1: like mentality I had forever, Like I always thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna be nice. I always thought I was a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar player, even before I was like, because
Speaker 1: I worked and then I just believed. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the that's my upbring is the It's the story
Speaker 1: of a kid who who was who was put in
Speaker 1: a position and took advantage of it better than most
Speaker 1: would who else was recruiting you. So it's crazy because
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Akron University because my cousin
Speaker 1: played football there and I took the visit. Shock as
Speaker 1: Smart who's at Texas now. He trained me when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, and he used to be at Akron,
Speaker 1: So they knew, they knew I wanted to go there.
Speaker 1: They had no scholarships left. They gave the only scholarship
Speaker 1: they had to Zeke Marshall. He was a seven fourth center.
Speaker 1: He was top fifty Blue ship and they basically said,
Speaker 1: you have the pro prop forty whatever, you have to
Speaker 1: red shirt of the year, pay your way and then
Speaker 1: you can you can you can play after that. And
Speaker 1: I said, if I sit out a year, I won't
Speaker 1: make it. I said, I don't love school enough to
Speaker 1: be able to go and not who and they didn't
Speaker 1: offer me. Ken State ended up offering me Bold and
Speaker 1: Green ended up offering me. Boys the state recruited before
Speaker 1: a while. Michigan or Dame were like my my other
Speaker 1: schools that I really wanted to go to, and neither
Speaker 1: one of those schools offered. Penn State didn't offer, so
Speaker 1: I basically had a bunch of mid majors University of Ferment.
Speaker 1: But as I waited, the scholarship disappeared. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, we got a scholarship for you if
Speaker 1: you can commit three days. Three days later, you see
Speaker 1: somebody at your position commit and you're like, damn. Like
Speaker 1: I thought I had ten scholarships, Now I got four.
Speaker 1: Like it started dwindling. And I was like, you know what, man,
Speaker 1: I'm chasing something that don't exist. Like you gotta love
Speaker 1: us in front of you. You You gotta love what loves you,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of times we we think
Speaker 1: something else is better than what you have. You think
Speaker 1: something else is like what you need to be fulfilled,
Speaker 1: and it might always it might be right in front
Speaker 1: of you. My mom and dad told me, don't miss
Speaker 1: the boat waiting on another train. You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: don't miss, don't miss what's in front of You're trying
Speaker 1: to catch something that don't exist. Be there first option.
Speaker 1: You're there, first option. Don't go be somebody second and third.
Speaker 1: And going to Lehigh is the best decision I've ever
Speaker 1: made in my life. I met my wife, I was
Speaker 1: able to learn, grow and develop as a man, and
Speaker 1: I got a degree. Like I'm a kid that grew
Speaker 1: up down the street from the hood. That's knowledge, that
Speaker 1: can speak well, that's still nice and hoop and I
Speaker 1: can fight. So it's like perfect the perfect company. What
Speaker 1: was it like, I mean, you touched on it, but
Speaker 1: what was it like? What was your college experience like
Speaker 1: just as far as you know, being a real student
Speaker 1: athlete and then being a superstar on a smaller team,
Speaker 1: what was that experience Like it was like a movie man,
Speaker 1: Like it was literally it's literally like a movie like
Speaker 1: I would do my whole college career over again. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a great time, but it taught me how
Speaker 1: to balance life. Like the academic course loan was crazy
Speaker 1: at lehigh, Like the the amount of studying you had
Speaker 1: to do to survive was unbelievable. Like it taught you
Speaker 1: how to balance your time. It takes you how to
Speaker 1: duty impossible, you know. Right twenty I was a journalist
Speaker 1: of major thirty page papers. I started off in the
Speaker 1: business school learning about accounting and econ Like. It was crazy,
Speaker 1: the amount of dedication focus you had to put into it.
Speaker 1: It was also crazy that I was. I didn't spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the librar earlier, ain't gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I spent my time in the gym, and I dug
Speaker 1: myself in a hole. And then I had to like
Speaker 1: start going to the library, start trying to catch up,
Speaker 1: start trying to get ahead and figuring and figuring stuff out.
Speaker 1: But in terms of hooping, I used to I used
Speaker 1: to go out, Like let's say I went out with
Speaker 1: some of my friends or whatever. We go out till
Speaker 1: twelve thirty one. I would come back and I'll go
Speaker 1: to the gym at one AM and I would work out,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I was still able to do
Speaker 1: the college student life but also working towards becoming a professional.
Speaker 1: I think that's what kind of separated me, because I
Speaker 1: could balance the the life that comes with being a
Speaker 1: college athlete with basketball, with academics, and then eventually figuring out,
Speaker 1: you know, the social aspect of you know, who's gonna
Speaker 1: like whoo, who are you going to spend the rest
Speaker 1: of your life with? But I think it was it
Speaker 1: was a perfect combination of things that that kind of
Speaker 1: fell into place for me. And I struggled early, which
Speaker 1: is why I probably succeeded late because I had always
Speaker 1: struggled in life, and that was just like, all right,
Speaker 1: what do I have to do to to kind of
Speaker 1: succeed And I'll do it. So your junior year, Um,
Speaker 1: the fifteen seed against the number two Duke seed. Take
Speaker 1: us back to that game and talk to us about it.
Speaker 1: You can. You scored a game high thirty. So when
Speaker 1: we when we drew Duke in the selection Sunday Show,
Speaker 1: I was geeked. I was I was super high because
Speaker 1: for what I hate Duke Um, I hate everything about him.
Speaker 1: Just full disclosure. I always go to North Carolina fan,
Speaker 1: but I hate everything about it, and I felt like
Speaker 1: I felt like that was my chance to kind of
Speaker 1: solidify who I thought I was, Like I always thought
Speaker 1: I was a man, but the rest of the world
Speaker 1: hadn't seen me. At people that that watched the mid
Speaker 1: major basketball teams in mid raging programs, they knew I
Speaker 1: had NBA quality talent, but they weren't sure if it translated,
Speaker 1: and they weren't sure if I could sustain a high
Speaker 1: level play against high level athletes. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is my perfect chance. I'm planned against Duke. They
Speaker 1: got Austin Rivers, they got Mason plum Ly, they got
Speaker 1: Miles plum Ly, they got three other NBA they had Quinn,
Speaker 1: They had like six seven NBA players, And I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is my chance to show who
Speaker 1: I am and the show I can elevate my team,
Speaker 1: like I'm playing with I always joke I said that
Speaker 1: my friends, my friends worked on Wall Street, and I'm
Speaker 1: playing with like guys that that worked for Fortune five
Speaker 1: companies and against NBA players, like the guys I played with,
Speaker 1: the the accountants for the for the Duke players in
Speaker 1: three years from now. So if I can up uplift
Speaker 1: them and play against them, this will solidified who I am.
Speaker 1: So I actually told my mom that we're gonna beat
Speaker 1: Duke and beat and beat who we're playing in the
Speaker 1: second round. I said, we'll probably lose the Baylor because
Speaker 1: Baylor got Pierre Jack said they had all this Quincy
Speaker 1: Quincy mility, had all these like super super athletes, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, like we weren't really
Speaker 1: athletic around here at at a Patriotleague school. So I
Speaker 1: went out there and in warm ups they was talking crazy,
Speaker 1: like you know how you go to half court and
Speaker 1: they just talking out of pocket, like just saying ridiculous
Speaker 1: rectly stuff, trying to like punk us in warm ups
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man like, like y'all y'ave built like that, Like,
Speaker 1: first of all, dude, players don't even really be nice
Speaker 1: like that when they get to the league. You know,
Speaker 1: gangster's going to Duke, right, So they were talking crazy
Speaker 1: and where ups, but then like once the game started,
Speaker 1: like I let him know I was here and talking
Speaker 1: to the bench. I'm talking to coach k after shots
Speaker 1: like I'm let him know I'm here, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: we all which I've been doing in the A, C C,
Speaker 1: but and none of these and none of these like me,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and we ended up going
Speaker 1: to win. I think that was like the signature game
Speaker 1: for me to kind of solidify that like I can
Speaker 1: play in the league and I can hold my own,
Speaker 1: I can be a league guard, I can play off
Speaker 1: the ball, like I can give you whatever you want.
Speaker 1: So after doing what you did the Duke, how did
Speaker 1: that kind of catapult you into the national eye and
Speaker 1: start kind of getting the respect you always felt you deserved.
Speaker 1: I think you put me in that like mid major
Speaker 1: stardom role to where you know, you had the Steph Curry's,
Speaker 1: you had the gymmer for debts Um, you had the
Speaker 1: George Hill situation. You had a lot of Eric Maynor
Speaker 1: a the players who were in similar situations, you know,
Speaker 1: where they are able to beat a a higher ranked team,
Speaker 1: a higher seed in the n C Double A tournament.
Speaker 1: You had to Steve nass situation where he was a
Speaker 1: fifteen to beat the two seeds. Kind of put me
Speaker 1: in that same light to where it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: he has NBA potential X y Z. These types of
Speaker 1: players have done this this. These are what his numbers
Speaker 1: are like compared to them, And then it kind of
Speaker 1: set me up to where I was the next season.
Speaker 1: I'm a preseason All American. I had. I entered the
Speaker 1: draft that that year and had basically heard that I
Speaker 1: would be a late first round pick. And I had
Speaker 1: to decide if I wanted to leave or go back
Speaker 1: to school. And I was like, I'm going back, Like
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be the man, This is my
Speaker 1: chance to be the man. Go to a small school.
Speaker 1: I wanted to. You know, some people don't want too
Speaker 1: much film on him. I was like, they can get
Speaker 1: as much film as they want on me. Like I
Speaker 1: believe in my game. I know that I can get
Speaker 1: back to where I was at and take my team
Speaker 1: even further. And I firmly believe if I didn't fracture
Speaker 1: my foot, like we was going to like the Lyde eight.
Speaker 1: Like we had a bunch of seniors. We were a
Speaker 1: good team. We were about to be ranked in the country.
Speaker 1: Um we we had a pretty bou edgel was playing VCU.
Speaker 1: We were playing high major teams, well, the high major
Speaker 1: teams that would play us. Most of them was afraid
Speaker 1: Also the backstory funny part is so as I went
Speaker 1: to a you know, a small school like le High,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to play every school that didn't offer me.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to play Pinch State. I want to
Speaker 1: play Ohio State. I wanted to play the Dukes in
Speaker 1: North Carolina's but every school in Ohio and I didn't
Speaker 1: recruit me. I really wanted to play him. And then
Speaker 1: I got cut from the USA team. Matt Painter was
Speaker 1: the head coach. Who was that was that Purdue uh
Speaker 1: Beheim was on the staff and two other coaches. So
Speaker 1: I went went back home and I told our coaching staff,
Speaker 1: I want to play Perdue, I want to play Syracuse.
Speaker 1: I wanna play all those schools, and they said that
Speaker 1: we'll play you when c J leaves. That was yes things.
Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of how it went. After that
Speaker 1: Duke game, I was I was just locked in, like
Speaker 1: determined to get to the next level. And I got
Speaker 1: to go to CP three, I got to go to
Speaker 1: bron Skills Academy. I got to go to all those
Speaker 1: things and really expose myself to like what it's like
Speaker 1: to play at the next level. The Giant Killer. So
Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen Draft you pick number ten overall.
Speaker 1: Oladipo goes number two, Janis goes fifteen. UM, Anthony Bennett
Speaker 1: goes one. What is it like going from your you know,
Speaker 1: small college experience to the bright lights of New York
Speaker 1: City Draft night? That was crazy, Like just to be
Speaker 1: in New York and like to have my family there
Speaker 1: and my friends there, everybody came out and just to
Speaker 1: to be in that situation. Like I never knew that
Speaker 1: you got that much free stuff when you have money,
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy you get more. It's crazy, right, you
Speaker 1: would think you get more free ship when you have
Speaker 1: money to spend on it. They was just giving everything away.
Speaker 1: Now It's like, man, I sure could have used this stuff,
Speaker 1: you know growing up and when I was in college,
Speaker 1: but like headphones, they just giving away watches, whatever, suits,
Speaker 1: And it was just like I was thing if I
Speaker 1: was able to spend that spend that time with my
Speaker 1: family and being able to experience, you know, sitting in
Speaker 1: the green room, um, the behind the scenes stuff, the
Speaker 1: the interviews, the storytelling, you know, sitting down with with
Speaker 1: Jalen Rose and and uh and some of those guys,
Speaker 1: just getting ready for Bill Simmons getting ready for like
Speaker 1: what it's like to plan the NBA. I still remember,
Speaker 1: like some of the things that I was saying like
Speaker 1: rings true today, Like like i know I'm gonna be ready,
Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna work hard, and I'm not really
Speaker 1: worried about, you know, going to a small school. I'm
Speaker 1: not really worried about, you know, the transition from you know,
Speaker 1: a school with five thousand people to a big NBA city.
Speaker 1: I said, look, man, I'm built for this and I'm
Speaker 1: just looking forward to the opportunity to to compete against
Speaker 1: the best. And I think that's been the most fun
Speaker 1: part is that you get the hoop for a living,
Speaker 1: Like you literally get paid to go hoop and you
Speaker 1: would do it for free and they're gonna pay you
Speaker 1: for it. Did you have any idea where you were going?
Speaker 1: Um during your lottery pick, but did you have any
Speaker 1: inclinition of where you're going? The Sacramento Kings promised me
Speaker 1: at seven, they said that they're going to draft me
Speaker 1: um if I was available. And then then McLamore fell
Speaker 1: and they ended up drafting him. So I thought I
Speaker 1: was going to Sacramento Detroit. I had a good workout
Speaker 1: for Detroit and at the time they had Joe Dumars
Speaker 1: who went to a small school, so we had that
Speaker 1: like small school reputation. I thought they was gonna draft me.
Speaker 1: They took a contagious called with Pope. I had a
Speaker 1: good workout for Minnesota and I thought they were going
Speaker 1: to draft me and they didn't. But I when I
Speaker 1: worked out for Portland's I had started talking to Dame.
Speaker 1: We started talking and stuff, and he was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a lottery pick whatever whatever, and he's
Speaker 1: basically if you available, like, I think we're gonna take you.
Speaker 1: And then Neil are GM. I think, Matt you might
Speaker 1: you might know Neil. No, shout out Neil Now. Neil
Speaker 1: used to train me before Neil was was a struggling
Speaker 1: actor in l a and he was a dope trainer
Speaker 1: and then he he ended up getting a position in
Speaker 1: Portland and did what he does. But Nil is my
Speaker 1: god man. Definitely shout out Neil Otle shack yeah man, Neil,
Speaker 1: good bye me for the rest of the life. I
Speaker 1: think I've named one of my dogs. And Neil after that, great,
Speaker 1: great dude, great all the bread. He didn't gave me
Speaker 1: up we're gonna we're gonna name the dog. But so
Speaker 1: Neil was basically like, we're going to um draft you
Speaker 1: if you're available. We think that we could pare you
Speaker 1: with Dame whatever whatever. So when I didn't go seven
Speaker 1: eight nine, I was like, oh ship, Like I'm about
Speaker 1: to go to Portland, like I've never been in the
Speaker 1: way I come to the East coast like man west kind,
Speaker 1: I had never been to Portland's only Portland I knew
Speaker 1: of really was Portly Maine like growing up, like you
Speaker 1: didn't like until I started watching start watching Stodomyr and stuff,
Speaker 1: and he was like okay, So I'm like, oh Ship,
Speaker 1: like Dame text me, oh Ship, and then my phone
Speaker 1: died and then the rested like a hour and a
Speaker 1: half later, You're going through interviews and stuff and then
Speaker 1: it's like me, me and b worked out together. He
Speaker 1: was number one pick in Oladipa was my man. So
Speaker 1: we end up going and like man, like you know
Speaker 1: what it is after parties for days. Uh my Carter
Speaker 1: Waits is my guy. So we all like out just
Speaker 1: really kicking it. Just I was like, I'm didding this week.
Speaker 1: They set you up. Do you think that forever bottle
Speaker 1: is gonna be free because on drafting, drafting everything you
Speaker 1: don't pay for ship. So we out here drinking and
Speaker 1: every one over we're going to every place you can
Speaker 1: think of. Don't get back to the hotel until like
Speaker 1: six and I don't have a press conference, so, like
Speaker 1: most guys have a press conference the next day, so
Speaker 1: they gotta fly out. They didn't do my press conference
Speaker 1: until like a month later, like summer league. So I
Speaker 1: was cool. I drove home like two days later. I
Speaker 1: stayed in New York and drove home to Ohio. But
Speaker 1: it was it was crazy, Like I still remember the party.
Speaker 1: I still remember where I went, who I seen, like
Speaker 1: something I never forget. So was that your first interaction
Speaker 1: with Was that your first interaction with Dame right there
Speaker 1: when he was discussed they would possibly drafting you. No.
Speaker 1: When I broke my foot my senior year, a mutual
Speaker 1: friend of ours connected I think with Justine is the
Speaker 1: one that connected us um via via text. And he
Speaker 1: was basically, you know, a guy who had broke his foot.
Speaker 1: He was a major player. He was he was a
Speaker 1: rookie at the time, like playing well, and I just
Speaker 1: wanted to ask him, like, how did you ever from
Speaker 1: this fracture foot you know what I'm saying, What type
Speaker 1: of drill should I be doing? What's the process like?
Speaker 1: And then just like as a guy who went to
Speaker 1: a small school and is in the league now, like
Speaker 1: how do how do I need to train when I returned?
Speaker 1: Like how do I have success? Like early? So that's
Speaker 1: like those are questions I'm asking. I'm like, I want
Speaker 1: to emulate like people that are successful, Like what do
Speaker 1: you do? And then I'm gonna go do the same
Speaker 1: ship because that's what that's what works. So we started
Speaker 1: talking like that, just on some developmental stuff like mentally,
Speaker 1: like how should I be thinking? And then we just
Speaker 1: naturally just became friends all like just through texts. And
Speaker 1: then the first time I met him in person was
Speaker 1: the draft lottery, So he represented the Portland Trail Blazers
Speaker 1: with a lottery. Me, Michael Carter, Williams a B and
Speaker 1: like two other players just went to the draft lottery
Speaker 1: to watch to see like what what team's gonna have
Speaker 1: what picks? And that's when we met and I was
Speaker 1: just asking him questions about his mentality. How does he
Speaker 1: how does he treat the treat his workouts when he
Speaker 1: goes five for twenty, and how does he treat his
Speaker 1: workouts when he goes fifteen twenty and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So it was organic, and I think that's why we're
Speaker 1: still friends to this day. There's no fallouts because we
Speaker 1: weren't forced to be friends. We was friends before we
Speaker 1: became teammates. And we built and we built from like
Speaker 1: similar backgrounds where you gotta work for what you what
Speaker 1: you want in this life. You take care of your family. Um,
Speaker 1: you sharp, you solid, but you also blunt and direct.
Speaker 1: And I think we got that that perfect combination. What
Speaker 1: was your welcome to the NBA moment? I had a
Speaker 1: couple man Um Small, Crawford, lou Williams, Monelge Nobly those is,
Speaker 1: the Tony Parker too. This is like getting the lane
Speaker 1: every play t P. He caught three fists wedge. They'rerunning
Speaker 1: wedge over and over again. But those is, I'll give
Speaker 1: you all three of them. The first time I guarded
Speaker 1: Jamal Crawford, he had three threes in a row. It
Speaker 1: was like bang, bang bang. I think I found him
Speaker 1: on one of them and get out. That was that
Speaker 1: was it. First time, Louis, I know you couldn't I
Speaker 1: ain't know, like you watch Lou and you think like
Speaker 1: lout nice whatever whatever, But like I'm just gonna guard
Speaker 1: him and you can't touch Loo. And he got to
Speaker 1: right the left crossover. Pump fake. He gotta right to
Speaker 1: left crossover like lean and jumper hit me with both
Speaker 1: first time right to lefty bang, second time pump fake.
Speaker 1: I jumped. Yeah. I was like, oh man, so get
Speaker 1: him out. Next West Coast road Trip. I gotta play
Speaker 1: the Spurs. Next Welcome to the Landing Model Genoboli Manu.
Speaker 1: He starts talking in this language, looks at pop. He
Speaker 1: holds up like uh, in my mind, he called me
Speaker 1: a loser. He holds this up and I guess it.
Speaker 1: It's like angle, like he wanted to screen, like a
Speaker 1: high angle screen. He backs up the half court, he
Speaker 1: throws the ball, runs at me, year old. They run
Speaker 1: the same place seven times in a row. He scored
Speaker 1: on five or six, and I think on the sixth
Speaker 1: one pass damn. I's like, you're this is this is different.
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, this is different. Like I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: like how am I going to survive in this league?
Speaker 1: Like I'm on a team where I can't show like
Speaker 1: I can't show I'm nice of offense because I'm standing
Speaker 1: in the corner because we got some real dogs. We
Speaker 1: got l A, we got Nico, we got West, we
Speaker 1: got a Dame. And I said, and I can't guard
Speaker 1: nobody on the other team. How am I play? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What did you learn about yourself through that experience? Though?
Speaker 1: Like I said that, you were throwing in the fire
Speaker 1: and then, like you said, the worst part is not
Speaker 1: to get no get back? So what what? What did
Speaker 1: you kind of learn about yourself in those moments? I
Speaker 1: was frustrated, man. I used to go home angry. I
Speaker 1: go home angry man, and I used to be like, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta figure it out because I'm a lottery pit.
Speaker 1: I went to a small school. I got hurt right away,
Speaker 1: so I didn't get to play. And now I'm watching
Speaker 1: my peers succeed, and that's what hurts. And then it
Speaker 1: didn't hurt because they were succeeded to hurt because I
Speaker 1: knew I was capable of doing a lot of similar things.
Speaker 1: And I was happy for Mike Carter Waiting, I was
Speaker 1: happy for Odipo, the guys that got to start right away.
Speaker 1: I was happy for them because I know I know
Speaker 1: how hard they worked, but I was just thinking, like, man, like,
Speaker 1: I wonder what my situation would be like if X,
Speaker 1: y Z, you know what I mean. And that's when
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I just make the best
Speaker 1: of your situation and stop being stop comparing yourself to others.
Speaker 1: And I think that's when I really realized I always
Speaker 1: say a comparisons to thief, thief of joy, just enjoy
Speaker 1: your life, enjoy what you have, and make the best
Speaker 1: of it. And I think that's when I transition to
Speaker 1: all right, how do I guard better? How do I
Speaker 1: still impact the game if I'm not gonna get touches?
Speaker 1: How do I get extra repts in practice? But I
Speaker 1: know I'm not playing, And I think that was my
Speaker 1: mentality of all right, you just gotta figure out how
Speaker 1: to stick around the league. And it's a long season.
Speaker 1: They got to give you a chance at some point,
Speaker 1: so just be ready when it comes again. And I
Speaker 1: think I was ready at the right times. Wesley Matthews
Speaker 1: terraces Achilles Aaron and follow hurts his shoulder. I'm third
Speaker 1: string shooting guard, third string point guard. The starting shooting
Speaker 1: guard gets hurt and the backup gets hurt. They had
Speaker 1: to play me, had to and that's when I started
Speaker 1: like killing. We go to the playoffs and play against
Speaker 1: Tony Yallen the Memphis Grizzlies, and that's when they're like okay,
Speaker 1: like he's well, he's he's who we thought he was.
Speaker 1: And then they let West walk. He signed with Dallas
Speaker 1: and they say, you're gonna go from playing fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: a game to thirty three and you're gonna play. You're
Speaker 1: gonna play twenty of them at at the two in
Speaker 1: twelve or fifteen at the one, I said, damn, what
Speaker 1: about the I'm about the backup the one too, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have a ball. It was like, yeah, I said
Speaker 1: about to kill. I'm about to kill. Who gives you
Speaker 1: that kind of talk? Though? That management? The coach, Who's
Speaker 1: who gives you that talk? Yeah? So Neil sat me
Speaker 1: down and with Terry and they were like we're gonna
Speaker 1: let We're gonna basically like we can't afford West West
Speaker 1: West end up signing for seventy four million. It was
Speaker 1: like the Marcus is leaving, so we're gonna start the
Speaker 1: rebuild basically like it was supposed to be a rebuild.
Speaker 1: They end up, we signed like Afrew Comino and we
Speaker 1: signed Mo Harcless. We signed some players Nick Mason, Blason Plumbly,
Speaker 1: and we lost Robin Lopez, Nick Betune, Wesley Matthews, LaMarcus
Speaker 1: all Dress, Moe Williams, basically Steve Bla. Everybody that played
Speaker 1: my position was gone. And I was just looking at
Speaker 1: It's like, this is like a dream come this is
Speaker 1: what I asked for. It's like a dream come true.
Speaker 1: And I remember at draft night, I was sitting with
Speaker 1: my financial adviser, I'll never forget it, shout out to
Speaker 1: my guy, Joe Godwin, and we're sitting there in Wesley
Speaker 1: signs with Dallas like draft DA, LaMarcus leaves, like all
Speaker 1: this stuff is happening. Nick latun Um league, he gets
Speaker 1: released or traded and we're going over like my finances
Speaker 1: and I was like, I want to buy a new car,
Speaker 1: like I've been in the league two years, Like I
Speaker 1: need a car whatever whatever. And he was like, well,
Speaker 1: based on like where we're at right now, you average
Speaker 1: x amount of points per game, like blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, like how much you think you should spend
Speaker 1: on the car. And I'm like I was like, honestly,
Speaker 1: I always wanted to ask that, Martin. So I want
Speaker 1: to buy Ason Martin, but I didn't want to buy
Speaker 1: it until like I locked it like a long term deal,
Speaker 1: and he was like, what do you think your market is?
Speaker 1: And I was like, he was like, Jeff Tique had
Speaker 1: just got like thirty two million or something like that.
Speaker 1: He was like, Jeff Tie got this. We're looking at
Speaker 1: like player of comparisons. And I was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna get like eighty two a hundred million.
Speaker 1: He like, he looking at me like you just just
Speaker 1: average six points a game last like you know, like
Speaker 1: he like keeping them keeping in the buckle me like
Speaker 1: every six points a game last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I said, yeah. But they're getting rid of the whole team,
Speaker 1: which means they're gonna have to play me. And if
Speaker 1: they play me, I'm not looking back, like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: really i gonna really go to work and I'll never
Speaker 1: forget it. When I signed for I signed for like
Speaker 1: a hundred four years, a hundred and six million, and
Speaker 1: I called him. I said, when I'm buying this, I'm
Speaker 1: buying this, asked Martin my twenty fifth birthday. I told
Speaker 1: you that's dope. I love that story. That's what's up.
Speaker 1: So once you're in in a position to get consistent minutes,
Speaker 1: how long did it take for you and Dame to jail?
Speaker 1: But it's crazy because Dame always used to tell me
Speaker 1: like I used to be like, bro, like damn, they
Speaker 1: don't like me, Like they're not playing me, they ain't
Speaker 1: messing with me. Um, I'm forgetting plays like so like
Speaker 1: sometimes coach throw me in and I'm forgetting plays. I'm
Speaker 1: not locked in, I'm not engaged. I was just doing
Speaker 1: like young NBA players ship like I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 1: acting the way I was supposed to act because I
Speaker 1: was disappointed in my role. I was disappointed in how
Speaker 1: I was being used, and I didn't approach you the
Speaker 1: right way. But as I kind of grew, immatured. It
Speaker 1: only took me one time for a coach to be
Speaker 1: like what the name of the referees and me did
Speaker 1: not know. Then I was like, damn, he trying to
Speaker 1: He trying to give you a chance to either succeed
Speaker 1: or fail, and you're failing, Like figure it out. And
Speaker 1: then I started to figure it out and Dame used
Speaker 1: to always be like, they drafted you for a reason. Bro,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be and you in the back cord. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be one of the best duos to ever play. Like.
Speaker 1: He used to say this stuff when I wasn't playing
Speaker 1: at all, because they've seen how I worked and how
Speaker 1: I wasn't practiced. He was like, we're gonna be cold, bro,
Speaker 1: watch just watch. And so as soon as they gave
Speaker 1: me a chance to start my first my first start
Speaker 1: as like a like a lad the guy in my
Speaker 1: third year, I scored like in the first six in
Speaker 1: the first quarter the first quarter of my first start
Speaker 1: my third year, and that's when he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's for real, Like like we started empowering each other.
Speaker 1: I passed ahead, he passed ahead. I get on the ball,
Speaker 1: I play, I'll play off. I'll initiate the offense. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you go over here, you go over there, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1: I run into the second unit and he comes back in.
Speaker 1: We put two him sometimes like I stopped in for him.
Speaker 1: He's supping for me. And we played together and we
Speaker 1: just kind of figured it out. And now eight years later,
Speaker 1: we still like besides Stephan Clay, like how many guys
Speaker 1: are still together, like right, So once you're in there
Speaker 1: getting consistent burn, what was it night and night out
Speaker 1: with with with with your menu? I mean, you're gonna
Speaker 1: give CP, You're gonna come against James Russ, Steph Clay, Kyrie,
Speaker 1: John Wall, Bill Connley like you name it, like every
Speaker 1: night it was work. But what was it like being
Speaker 1: know that finally be in that position you knew you
Speaker 1: were capable of being and it was fun, man, But
Speaker 1: you just you learn the importance of taking care of
Speaker 1: your body, especially when you're younger. So back to backs.
Speaker 1: I used to be mad because you know, you playing
Speaker 1: against the elite player in general, right, everybody nice, And
Speaker 1: then you look at the schedule and they had two
Speaker 1: days off and you're coming in on the back to
Speaker 1: back where you later the two or three A and
Speaker 1: I'm like, dang, this is I wish I was fresh
Speaker 1: for this one, you know what I mean? And you
Speaker 1: just kind of psych yourself out and go who but
Speaker 1: to compete against those guys, I mean even y'all, Like
Speaker 1: I used to have to chase JJ's ass around and
Speaker 1: get hit by them illegal screens, DeAndre be Setting and
Speaker 1: Blake screens and then you go to another night and
Speaker 1: you gotta guard. You gotta guard Clay and Staff, and
Speaker 1: it's two different animals. So you gotta catch and shoot
Speaker 1: Monster who just runs around. He's six seven, he can
Speaker 1: also post up. You played great defense, doesn't matter. And
Speaker 1: then you got Staff, who bo bo bo bop bop shooting,
Speaker 1: keep doing all of this stuff and kissing you all
Speaker 1: and and then and then the next night you gotta
Speaker 1: go guard James on the island. It's just it was
Speaker 1: just a lot, but it was It was fun for
Speaker 1: me because it was the challenge. It was like, all right,
Speaker 1: now you get to really see where you're at, and
Speaker 1: you get to try to guard some of these best
Speaker 1: players and still try to produce some offense, which is
Speaker 1: really hard to do. And I just enjoyed the challenge.
Speaker 1: And then you go guard Brad, and Brad got everything
Speaker 1: he got. The minute he got the paint finishing, he
Speaker 1: can shoot threes. It's just like exactly what you envisioned.
Speaker 1: It's like, this is this is what I always wanted,
Speaker 1: and now I'm out here living in and then having fun.
Speaker 1: But then you also get some payback. You get some
Speaker 1: get back now though exactly exactly and the hunger is
Speaker 1: is crazy because you used to show up to the
Speaker 1: arena and know and you're not gonna play Like you
Speaker 1: used to take the taxi this before uber. You take
Speaker 1: the taxi or the or the hotel town car to
Speaker 1: get to the arena at three fifteen because that's your
Speaker 1: workout for the day. You know what I'm saying. Like
Speaker 1: I had o g Earl Watson and we used to
Speaker 1: play ones twos, and he used to be like, this
Speaker 1: has gotta be your game. So I'm running the stairs
Speaker 1: before the game thinking that, like if another team is watching,
Speaker 1: they don't see, like this kid really works, this kid,
Speaker 1: this kid comes in by four thirty. I didn't got it.
Speaker 1: I didn't got a good two hours in. I'd have lifted.
Speaker 1: I've shot out and played once. I'm out there with
Speaker 1: the cheerleaders, the cheerleaders dancing, anymore of me nothing. I'm
Speaker 1: out there early trying to get it in. Shout out
Speaker 1: Earl Watson. That was my college point. That's my god.
Speaker 1: We're actually working on the show together right now. But
Speaker 1: Earl was a Earl was a real vet. Yeah, girl,
Speaker 1: I played with Earl. Chris came in and d right
Speaker 1: shout to my guy, d right, shout out d right,
Speaker 1: that Chris came in like taking showers by the time
Speaker 1: you I'll played together because that mother don't want to
Speaker 1: take no showers early on. One of the most Chris
Speaker 1: is one of the most interesting funny heater blood Why
Speaker 1: who last dude? Too cool? D is a fan? Cool
Speaker 1: is a fan. Yeah, we have to we have to
Speaker 1: had good team mote wait ands used to make me
Speaker 1: sit in this room. It's impossible to be cool with
Speaker 1: your hygene is bad. It come get me, no way
Speaker 1: you can be cool in your high Jens bad. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: It's nothing. It's nothing cool about you. It's nothing. I
Speaker 1: can't be cool with you. Nothing coolbout like no, I
Speaker 1: don't see that. I can't speak to the showers. I
Speaker 1: don't remember the shower part, like I just need no.
Speaker 1: I played no, I played with him, So I played
Speaker 1: with him and oh three his rookie year and he
Speaker 1: had game. But that motherfucker used to be the motherfucker
Speaker 1: that would play and then put his jeans on and teacher,
Speaker 1: I gotta shower at my house. Well I'm a shower here,
Speaker 1: Like mom, you just played twenty five minutes. What the
Speaker 1: fucking me, why are you gonna shower here? Because there's
Speaker 1: eight hot ass showers and they get asking one of them.
Speaker 1: And that motherfucker used to stay just putting his motherfucking
Speaker 1: clothes on after a game and go home and shower
Speaker 1: anyway in shout out, shout out, Chris Caman man like
Speaker 1: I said that, cool dude. I came in. So you
Speaker 1: mentioned early on c J. You guys have been in
Speaker 1: the playoffs every year, and I think I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you about the Warrior dynasty that you guys
Speaker 1: went up against, because you guys had some chances and
Speaker 1: the Warriors were kind of big brothers almost quote unquote
Speaker 1: to you guys in the playoffs. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: what you learned and how good those Dynasty teams were.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot, man, just from from interacting, uh
Speaker 1: with some of those players, competing against them, um losing
Speaker 1: playing the playoffs, being up twenty against the Warriors and
Speaker 1: watching the lead disappear. I think it just seems like
Speaker 1: being up five. Yeah, it teaches it teaches you how
Speaker 1: to play lead basketball, like when you go up against
Speaker 1: the elite ones, like especially that's seven, that's seventy whatever,
Speaker 1: and whatever season, they were playing some of the best
Speaker 1: basketball I've ever seen, Like the way they moved the
Speaker 1: ball to pace. Obviously staff, they had a lot of
Speaker 1: different pieces. Iggy was playing at that time. They had
Speaker 1: hb they had Boget. Like the way they played was
Speaker 1: just like a fun brand of basketball to watch. And
Speaker 1: then you get out there with him and you compete,
Speaker 1: and that's when the roar, like the Oracle roar was different.
Speaker 1: So like you know that, like the run is coming
Speaker 1: at some point, you just trying to withstand it. He's like, yeo,
Speaker 1: we just gotta withstand this run. It's coming at some point.
Speaker 1: And then bang bang bang bang for a threeas in
Speaker 1: a row. WHOA like fun. He didn't go so like
Speaker 1: it was. It was a great experience. And I'll say
Speaker 1: all the time it wasn't for them. We probably get
Speaker 1: to the probably get to the finals one of these years. Bullshit.
Speaker 1: I definitely. I said, you guys had a solid, solid team,
Speaker 1: but you would run into the Warriors. Yeah, And that
Speaker 1: was the buzz all that like a lot of people
Speaker 1: couldn't get over to hunt brun bless his heart, and
Speaker 1: being able to come back from from three one that
Speaker 1: that man especial, but it was. It was a great
Speaker 1: learning experience, and I think because of that we're better
Speaker 1: the character understanding, the appreciation of the game, Like we
Speaker 1: we better because of that. Absolutely. I'm sorry. Nah ship
Speaker 1: he came with his funny. I can't stop laughing that
Speaker 1: ship it came. But oh god, that is funny. That
Speaker 1: is funny. All right, here we go. That ship was.
Speaker 1: The ship was classic, bro. So what was the matchup
Speaker 1: between backcourts? Because you guys are arguably at the time,
Speaker 1: you know one A, one B. You know, you could
Speaker 1: throw Wall and Bill in there, but I thought you
Speaker 1: and Dame were right behind those two. What were those matchups? Like?
Speaker 1: They were fun? Man, there was. It was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun because we're all like competitors and it's it's
Speaker 1: funny because they always say light skinned guys and killers,
Speaker 1: but them light skin brothers killers, you know, they really
Speaker 1: really want to win. The way they play is crazy,
Speaker 1: like they play off of each other, the movement, the screening,
Speaker 1: one person gets hot, like the whole team feeds them.
Speaker 1: Draymond always talking crazy. But I like, like, I'm built
Speaker 1: for that life, So I enjoyed that. That's fun for
Speaker 1: me and just the the amount of trash that we talked,
Speaker 1: like to Draymond and to the rest of the staff,
Speaker 1: and the challenge of having to guard Clay, having to
Speaker 1: guard staff and then wanting them to guard you on
Speaker 1: the other and chasing stuff like tell dep go at him.
Speaker 1: You can't like there's no possessions off to where you
Speaker 1: might score on me. But I'm kind of right back,
Speaker 1: like I'm not I'm not running from it. And and
Speaker 1: if if I feel like you're running, bring him up
Speaker 1: here in the pick and roll, go fight. I think
Speaker 1: Luca does it, James does it, like you go find
Speaker 1: somebody like I want him, bring him up here. And
Speaker 1: that's how we talk to each other, like go get him,
Speaker 1: Go get your turn and go to work like that.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the fun part of playing in
Speaker 1: the NBA with people that you get along with and
Speaker 1: then compete against the best, because Steph wants to go
Speaker 1: guard you, Clay wants to go guard you for the
Speaker 1: most part, like they look forward to that challenge. But
Speaker 1: let's say Clay's on Dame and steps on me. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to go at step and then I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: your turn, you go at him. Because Clays six seven.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, two hundred pounds. He can
Speaker 1: move his feet. He's a big guard, and you want
Speaker 1: to make step as tired as possible in offense because
Speaker 1: that's like it was one of your only hopes is
Speaker 1: to try to wear him out so that he's tired
Speaker 1: and shots coming up short. So what did you guys
Speaker 1: learn from those experiences that bettered you guys, um as
Speaker 1: a team, as individuals moving forward in your careers. I
Speaker 1: think the importance of camaraderie. I think that's huge, being
Speaker 1: able to go out to dinners, being able to kick
Speaker 1: you with your teammates, being able to fail. I think
Speaker 1: losing to the Warriors, getting swept by the Pelicans, I
Speaker 1: think we responded really well to those types of situations.
Speaker 1: We get swapping and then we end up going to
Speaker 1: the Western Conference Finals the next season. It teaches you
Speaker 1: how to get through a long, gass season, man, Like
Speaker 1: there's gonna be great wins and there's gonna be some
Speaker 1: shitty losses to where you're looking around and you're like, damn,
Speaker 1: Like we just lost by one year, we lost by
Speaker 1: forty five, you know what I mean? Like that's crazy,
Speaker 1: that's almost fifty points you're losing by in the game,
Speaker 1: but then you gotta go play the next night or
Speaker 1: two nights later, and you gotta forget all about that.
Speaker 1: And your team has to be able to compartmentalize, like
Speaker 1: what we're trying to accomplish leading up to the playoffs.
Speaker 1: But I haven't talked to some of the O g s.
Speaker 1: It's just like the role players are huge. Like the
Speaker 1: role players need to be able to play well, be
Speaker 1: stars in their roles. You've gotta empower them, and you
Speaker 1: gotta appreciate the little stuff like the big fellow that's
Speaker 1: set in screens and getting you open. You gotta appreciate
Speaker 1: that because they're sacrificing for you to eat. Feed them
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, you couple dump OFSS here and there?
Speaker 1: What you mean? Right? So that that's what's been been
Speaker 1: helpful for us. It's thinking about that balance. How do
Speaker 1: we get the best out of everybody and then how
Speaker 1: do we steal survive Like it's it's illegal about surviving.
Speaker 1: Like when when stuff don't go well, they're looking to
Speaker 1: the change things. So you gotta make sure stuff is
Speaker 1: going well, you guys. Two thousand, two thousand, nineteen Western conference.
Speaker 1: Uh final run started off with you guys in the
Speaker 1: Thunder and the Westbrook and PG and and you and
Speaker 1: and Dame. How what was the energy like obviously there's
Speaker 1: some animosity between that situation, but what was just the
Speaker 1: energy like and then Dame is able to close it
Speaker 1: out and fucking way goodbye to them? What was the
Speaker 1: energy around that series? Like it was it was a
Speaker 1: lot of anger. I think there's a lot of remember
Speaker 1: texting before the game. I remember texting and like it's
Speaker 1: just like you don't take things personal, but you look
Speaker 1: forward to the challenge of solidified like who you are
Speaker 1: and what you are. And I think the fact that
Speaker 1: like we had that regular season and I think they
Speaker 1: caught Russ saying that I've been busting your ask for years,
Speaker 1: Like I'm busting your ask for years, Like they cut
Speaker 1: that on video, and that was like a trigger, Like
Speaker 1: that trigger that was a trigger. The fact that it's Russ,
Speaker 1: Like Russ is an elite player, average a triple double,
Speaker 1: he's aggressive, he's gonna rock the baby on you, he
Speaker 1: gonna too small, like he's gonna do all of that,
Speaker 1: and you, like I enjoy it, Like that's fun for me,
Speaker 1: Like I want to go compete, and then you got
Speaker 1: pg who uh and one of the games they beat us,
Speaker 1: he win me at the buzzer and that like in
Speaker 1: my mind that wasn't fuck you, Like that's like in
Speaker 1: my head he was saying fuck you. So like we're
Speaker 1: all thinking about that as we're playing in the series
Speaker 1: and all the reporters picked us to lose, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like you watch ESPN every day, You're
Speaker 1: watching this stuff, and they're like, yeah, the Blazers don't
Speaker 1: stand a chance, like they're talking about PGS an All star,
Speaker 1: RUSS is an All star m VP, like we can't
Speaker 1: in ten the players have one all star like and
Speaker 1: I'm watching it and I'm like, these niggers must not
Speaker 1: know who I am, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: that's what I'm thinking, Like like that's what I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: Like they must not know like I really do this,
Speaker 1: especially in the playoffs, like I really I show up
Speaker 1: like and I pride myself on showing up in big games.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking and we text each other. I said,
Speaker 1: if we out played him, if we all played it,
Speaker 1: we went this series, That's all I said. Like when
Speaker 1: your matchup and he started the game with a thirty
Speaker 1: six footer like that's that's my that was that was
Speaker 1: his you know, it was on I'm here, I'm here,
Speaker 1: straight face. I pull up off the tip, the tip,
Speaker 1: ball came, two dribbles, bang. Looked at him like, I'm here,
Speaker 1: and that's what I knew. I said, so I'm clapping.
Speaker 1: I'm like, we got action action and we we just
Speaker 1: we really wanted it and we went after them. They
Speaker 1: went after us. It was competitive, it was fun. Um.
Speaker 1: We knew we had them on the ropes. And I
Speaker 1: remember talking of my brother. That was the year before
Speaker 1: I was able to go out and see him in
Speaker 1: Turkey because he plays in Europe. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna be able to make it next year,
Speaker 1: and he was like, what you mean. I said, We're
Speaker 1: gonna go far in the playoffs next year, so I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be able to make it out here to
Speaker 1: see you. And right after we beat him at their
Speaker 1: crib and went up three one, I said it in
Speaker 1: the press conference. I said, yeah, I ain't gonna be
Speaker 1: able to see my brother this season because we're gonna
Speaker 1: be here for a while like that, and then we
Speaker 1: get to the game game five and Dame hits him
Speaker 1: with a fifty piece McNugget and then walk off three
Speaker 1: and then he waved that was so killer how he
Speaker 1: just like I was like, I was like, I'll never
Speaker 1: forget that. I'll never forget it. That was tough. That
Speaker 1: that way was cuss cuss wards were flying out that way. Boy,
Speaker 1: that ship was cold blooded. So you guys take Denver
Speaker 1: and seven, Um, you're playing great. At about twenty six
Speaker 1: a game, six rebounds, three assists, you get to Golden State,
Speaker 1: done dune Dune, So what what? Like I said, you
Speaker 1: have to face them. You guys have faced them before,
Speaker 1: you've seen them. But you guys, like I said, you guys,
Speaker 1: you guys were learning from each experience building up to this.
Speaker 1: You step into Golden State, talk to us. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was tough, man. And I think the Denver series was
Speaker 1: a lot like seven games have to win on the road,
Speaker 1: a three or four overtime gag like it was. It
Speaker 1: was just a It took a lot of energy, It
Speaker 1: took a lot of emotion to get through it, and
Speaker 1: I think we grew up from it. But when we
Speaker 1: got into that that Warrior series, it was a different
Speaker 1: animal like the way they played the pace, how quick
Speaker 1: the turnaround was. We go from a game seven off
Speaker 1: day game the next day like we traveled and we
Speaker 1: got up. We would get leads and then we just
Speaker 1: blow them. And I think it was because of their athleticism,
Speaker 1: their game planning, their ability to shoot, and our lack
Speaker 1: of execution down and stretch of games and some some
Speaker 1: good moments to where we could have could have closed
Speaker 1: the door, and we did it, and I end up
Speaker 1: calling us to series and that's why we end up
Speaker 1: getting I think we got swept at that season and
Speaker 1: we were we led for more minutes than we old
Speaker 1: and we didn't win a game in this series, which
Speaker 1: is crazy. That shows you the last the last two minutes,
Speaker 1: the switch would come on and they would get just
Speaker 1: enough stops to run away. Yeah. Crazy, crazy. So the
Speaker 1: following season, last season is the bubble. You guys get
Speaker 1: hot at the right time, capture the A seed. You
Speaker 1: have a fucking legendary interview where you imitate Mike Tyson.
Speaker 1: Where did where did where did that idea come from?
Speaker 1: And then we'll get back to the basketball park. That
Speaker 1: was funny it You know when I when I first
Speaker 1: when I first salut my wife, the the YouTube interview
Speaker 1: and Mike where he's like, I broke my back spine
Speaker 1: after the game, we're talking in Dame, like he goes
Speaker 1: spinal and so then I was like, I broke my back,
Speaker 1: but I just did it because he triggered me. He
Speaker 1: said it it was like a trigger, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious. So what were your thoughts on I
Speaker 1: love it personally, but what were your thoughts on the
Speaker 1: play in format and how they use it in the
Speaker 1: bubble and then brought it back this year as well.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed playing it. I thought it
Speaker 1: was fun, it was competitive, it gave the fans something
Speaker 1: to watch, and although I would like to not playing
Speaker 1: it again right, I'd like to have a better seed.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. It's great for the game. I
Speaker 1: think it's great for the sport, and people really are
Speaker 1: enjoying it. What was your playoff experience like without fans?
Speaker 1: It was different. Man. It's like it's like playing in
Speaker 1: a competitive practice, like a like an intense inter squad
Speaker 1: scrimmage or like against another team. But once you once
Speaker 1: the ball gest rolling, like you just go whoop. But
Speaker 1: just like the intensity with the with the actual fans,
Speaker 1: like the energy that you get from their fans. Like
Speaker 1: imagine if we're playing again the Lakers and we beat
Speaker 1: them in Staple Center game one, Yeah, saying like that,
Speaker 1: they probably getting boomed like that, the shift is crazy,
Speaker 1: and then you lose game two. But when you go
Speaker 1: home to Portland for Game three, and then that's like
Speaker 1: you already you split and now you have the crib,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like just like miss like
Speaker 1: missing that would have been would have been ideal, like
Speaker 1: having that and I would have liked to play in
Speaker 1: cities with fans like I would have liked to play
Speaker 1: like that game in Memphis. Yeah, you know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying that that would have been cold to beat them
Speaker 1: on their home create like to get to the playoffs,
Speaker 1: Like it's like going to somebody frigerator and drinking their juice.
Speaker 1: So real quick. I like the way you broke that down,
Speaker 1: because I don't think that people don't really understand is
Speaker 1: that fans so you go into Staples Center high, but
Speaker 1: then in the first round you take the wind out
Speaker 1: of their sales. So like you said, game two is
Speaker 1: a battle. But once you get to the parking lot
Speaker 1: in Portlands, Like, your fans are gonna be going insane
Speaker 1: as soon as you get out. The gym is gonna
Speaker 1: go crazy. And you guys have a hell of a
Speaker 1: quot home court advantage, so to not have any of
Speaker 1: that type of energy, that ship is big. It's bigger
Speaker 1: than people realize. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that's what
Speaker 1: we miss about the sport, Like it's hard to play
Speaker 1: im portlandly I was in the league, Like, our fans
Speaker 1: is crazy. It's loud, they show up early and I
Speaker 1: still be beat by game time, so I don't even know.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's what they say. Look, that's what they say.
Speaker 1: The smoke CJ. Welcome to the smoke Baby Mades said no,
Speaker 1: but Sai though, But yeah, our fans is crazy, man,
Speaker 1: they come out. We love them, They support us. They
Speaker 1: wear the T shirt, always say they're not too cool
Speaker 1: to wear the T shirts, and they empower us. And
Speaker 1: I think our record is a lot better at the career.
Speaker 1: We win a lot more games at the house, and
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to the playing in front of them,
Speaker 1: But I'm also I'm looking forward to playing on the road,
Speaker 1: Like I like playing on the road and having road fans,
Speaker 1: like seeing it look on their faces, like when we
Speaker 1: get them bur in game seven, and like seeing the
Speaker 1: look on their faces. Man, it's just so. It's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest joys is to just see the disbelief
Speaker 1: and the anger and the confusion of like a road
Speaker 1: fan after you deflating the building. It is the best feeling. Bro.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little about your podcast, The Pull Up
Speaker 1: and did your journalism Blackground have a role in that
Speaker 1: or what was your h want behind getting into the
Speaker 1: podcast space. Yeah, my my journalism degree definitely played a
Speaker 1: role in my decision to have a podcast. I always
Speaker 1: been big on wanting to keep my degree alive and
Speaker 1: being able to share stories, tell stories, being able to
Speaker 1: get players to share certain things and just kind of
Speaker 1: connect with the fans at a different level was was
Speaker 1: the main goal. But yeah, Pull Up Hoods will be
Speaker 1: relaunching at some point in your future. Just storytelling and
Speaker 1: keeping people up to date with what's going on around
Speaker 1: the league and people up to date with with some
Speaker 1: of my opinions and thoughts on what's happening in the world.
Speaker 1: I think all those things are important and it's fun.
Speaker 1: Like I enjoyed hosting a podcast. Yeah, look at hey, Rachel,
Speaker 1: face time me back CJ. She said, we're sharing custody
Speaker 1: of you real quick. Yeah, we're gonna finish up with
Speaker 1: I'm real quick. And then he's right onto you. We're
Speaker 1: on the last question. Thank you, Rachel, appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: She said, you're all good. I completely forgot because my
Speaker 1: phone did not the stair. So nah, we got connections
Speaker 1: over here. We got you, bro, all right, So here
Speaker 1: we go, quick hitters, Um, toughest matchup for you. I
Speaker 1: don't think we have to played against each other, so
Speaker 1: you ain't. You ain't gonna say me, I don't think
Speaker 1: we ever played against each other. I would say, I
Speaker 1: would say Brad and Brad and Steff, Brad and Steff,
Speaker 1: two different games, two different games, catch and shoots, all
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, you you plus four going to the
Speaker 1: park to on the court. You plus four? Who are
Speaker 1: you taking with you? Yeah? Outside where you might have
Speaker 1: to fight. That's a great point. Um, you might have
Speaker 1: to fight. You gotta bring James Johnson and don't fight
Speaker 1: one of them, one of them. I gotta bring James.
Speaker 1: I'd probably take I take dang um Dane, Katie Bron
Speaker 1: and James Johnson, James Johnson good, Hey you're good, y'all straight,
Speaker 1: Dame can box still straight? Yeah, you can fight too,
Speaker 1: y'all gonna be good. Uh, your top five artists, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go Hove, don't forget you from the Midwest. Bro.
Speaker 1: What you want to throw Nelly in there or something?
Speaker 1: Tupacket Biggie obviously legendary, but they passed early, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like they didn't even get a chance
Speaker 1: to hit their prime. If you're going body of work
Speaker 1: and you gotta include them, that's three Andre, Andre, three
Speaker 1: Stacks and Drake. I like that, and I like that
Speaker 1: little mind. But then like I like Jake Cole, Like
Speaker 1: these are all these people that I really love. So
Speaker 1: it puss me, It pushed me in, It puss me
Speaker 1: in a tough spot. But I say, Jake hole six,
Speaker 1: many can't go wrong. N You're all time starting five,
Speaker 1: Mike Yep, Brian m hmm, Kobe mm hmm, shock m M.
Speaker 1: That's my identical. We've identical so far. What I would
Speaker 1: say the four is tough, Like you could go Bill Russell,
Speaker 1: you could go KG, you can go KD, you go
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan that's my pig. Yeah. Mm hmm. You can slip.
Speaker 1: You can slide brown to the four. I mean ship,
Speaker 1: you got options, I go, I go Tim Duncan, and
Speaker 1: then I got I would have kg KG six man,
Speaker 1: Katie Katie h first card off the bench? Okay, nice? Nice? Uh?
Speaker 1: Five dinner guests, dead or alive, drinking your drinking your
Speaker 1: wine Obama? Alright, jay Z, I'm on a billionaires So
Speaker 1: we either go Elon Musk or Bill Gates. I wanna
Speaker 1: you know, I need to tap into that financial knowledge.
Speaker 1: I would go Mark Martin, Luther King Jr. Probably Michael X.
Speaker 1: Would be an interesting conversation. Man, that'll be nice. That'll
Speaker 1: be nice right there? Who do you want to see
Speaker 1: on All the Smoke? But before you answer this question
Speaker 1: your answer, you have to help us with the answer.
Speaker 1: So who do you think should be on All the Smoke?
Speaker 1: I gotta help with the answer. Um, come on, bro,
Speaker 1: it's this should be real easy. He ain't been on
Speaker 1: the Dead Yeah, God, damn, he ain't been on the
Speaker 1: damn show. We didn't make videos about this, nigga. I
Speaker 1: didn't d m him. I didn't talk to him a meniantime.
Speaker 1: We're waiting no, Dame du Yeah for you. Hey, crazy enough.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to be our very first guest and
Speaker 1: it just didn't work out. But anyway, Man, we know
Speaker 1: you in a hurry. Ce J, thank you for your time,
Speaker 1: man Jack, great show. I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1: And I meant to tell you my movement specialist. He's
Speaker 1: a big, big fan of y'all. Devin, So my god, Deva,
Speaker 1: He's gonna be happy. I'm on here. Shout out, bro, Damn,
Speaker 1: shout out man, Shout out to the home. Appreciate you're
Speaker 1: broken healthy. You can catch all the smoke on Showtime
Speaker 1: Basketball in I Heart Platform Black Effects. We'll see you
Speaker 1: all next week. This is all a Smoke, a production
Speaker 1: of The Black Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership
Speaker 1: with Showtime