Speaker 1: The man has been to every country on Earth and
Speaker 1: both poles. That puts Lee Abbamonte in a tiny club
Speaker 1: of global explorers, and he's got a bunch of stories
Speaker 1: to tell. The most interesting woman in the world. That's
Speaker 1: the impressive title. But Outside Magazine bestowed on Kelly Edwards
Speaker 1: Modern Adventurer, travel host, mountain climber, deep water diver and pilot,
Speaker 1: having a passenger in the plane with you for the
Speaker 1: very first time, and that you tricked them into getting
Speaker 1: the plane in the first place, and you say they're
Speaker 1: taking them to lunch. I'm taking you to lunch. Well,
Speaker 1: why are we at the airport because I'm going to
Speaker 1: fly us there. That's why you have that kind of friend.
Speaker 1: And then literally going into an emergency situation, having to
Speaker 1: rock my wings, making sure I'm communicating with the tower
Speaker 1: because they can't hear me, and landing the plane immediately.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had so many experiences, but it does
Speaker 1: not stop me from always getting back up there. Because
Speaker 1: if you've ever felt what it's like to have the
Speaker 1: yoking your hand in an aircraft and know that that
Speaker 1: plane is going where you wanted to go, it's a
Speaker 1: power that you never want to really push. For me,
Speaker 1: the greatest moment of my life, and I really mean
Speaker 1: this was reaching the South Pole. To to be at
Speaker 1: a latitude line and to think where you are on
Speaker 1: the world. You know, it's just like, holy shit, every
Speaker 1: single thing for me is up, you know, And this
Speaker 1: I felt the same way when I went to the
Speaker 1: North Pole, and I'm like, this is so cool and
Speaker 1: everything on Earth is blow me right now. And I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, still one of a handful of people. I
Speaker 1: think it's like four or five people in history have
Speaker 1: been to every country in both poles. Okay, Antarctica just
Speaker 1: moved higher up my list of places that I want
Speaker 1: to visit. If you longed for the care free days
Speaker 1: just taken off for somewhere exploring changing latitude and attitude,
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. Both my guests, Kelly Edwards
Speaker 1: and Leebamonte, have such passion and curiosity any talking to
Speaker 1: them reminded me how important how vital travel has been
Speaker 1: to me and to Jennifer. So if you feel like
Speaker 1: being transported and inspired to seek new experiences, just as
Speaker 1: soon as safer day's return, you're gonna enjoy meeting them.
Speaker 1: Kelly is a pioneer who's building her empire. She was
Speaker 1: the first black woman to host her own travel TV series,
Speaker 1: Mysterious Islands. She's become an influential force and travel journalism.
Speaker 1: Kelly fully embraces any adventure, great and small that she
Speaker 1: can think of. Well, Kelly, I'm so excited to talk
Speaker 1: with you and hear your ideas and your experiences and
Speaker 1: your messagers too would be travelers. But I gotta say first,
Speaker 1: we probably could have done this podcast recording at the
Speaker 1: summit of a fourteen thousand foot peak in Summit County, Colorado,
Speaker 1: because you missed each other by one day in Recoverens
Speaker 1: this summer, and we both share a passion from mountains,
Speaker 1: So maybe another time. Right. Absolutely, I'll meet you at
Speaker 1: any fourteen or you're ready to Summit. I'm there, let's
Speaker 1: do it. The passion for mountains, I mean, like you,
Speaker 1: I grew up in Illinois, there were no mountains nearby.
Speaker 1: But I know you you've talked about that moment when
Speaker 1: you realize that mountain scenery and being in mountain was
Speaker 1: going to be important to you. Absolutely. It was when
Speaker 1: I was leaving Chicago as a young child with my
Speaker 1: mother headed to California on the Greyhound bus. And as
Speaker 1: you said, there are no mountains anywhere near Chicago, and
Speaker 1: so as a young child to see mountains for the
Speaker 1: first time, it was literally one of the most memorable
Speaker 1: and powerful experiences in my childhood and it totally shaped me.
Speaker 1: When I saw him for the first time, I pointed
Speaker 1: to them and I said, Mom, those look like buried
Speaker 1: Braunosaurus is because of the huge hump, that's what I
Speaker 1: thought a mountain was. And my mom said, no, those
Speaker 1: are called mountains, Kelly. I thought there were buried dinosaurs,
Speaker 1: and I was just so fascinated at their presence, at
Speaker 1: their I can't even find the word to to describe
Speaker 1: what it's like to see something that is literally so
Speaker 1: monumental when all you've seen your young life is city
Speaker 1: blocks and skyscrapers. You know, a lot of Chicagoans, especially
Speaker 1: where I come from, you know, living on the South
Speaker 1: side of Chicago, as close as we are to Lake Michigan,
Speaker 1: you'd be surprised at how many people have never even
Speaker 1: been to to Lake Michigan, to the beach. So for
Speaker 1: me to be taking out of that element and to
Speaker 1: see the world in the landscape from Chicago to California,
Speaker 1: I knew that I had to have a place in
Speaker 1: a connection to the new landscapes I was seen. Mountains
Speaker 1: taught me to have big goals because you see them,
Speaker 1: you think, oh my god, that is so humongous. Maybe
Speaker 1: some day I could get up there, and then you
Speaker 1: realize that, I mean literally a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: we were on top of them. I thought, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: let's not view these things as so far off, insurmountable.
Speaker 1: You can do it. You just don't even know what.
Speaker 1: You don't know about it yet, And if you open
Speaker 1: yourself up, life changing experiences traveling fascinate me. It sounds
Speaker 1: like you had one on that airplane. What other things
Speaker 1: come to mind? Where you in in a lightning bolt
Speaker 1: sort of altered your perspective, or or saw beauty that
Speaker 1: was just so moving that it was kind of burned
Speaker 1: into your brain forever. I'd have to say, it's gonna
Speaker 1: sound so simple, but it meant a lot to me.
Speaker 1: It was the first time I had saw my dad,
Speaker 1: my stepfather, leave the sand in California and walk into
Speaker 1: the ocean and swim. And when I say, he disappeared
Speaker 1: down the shoreline current and came up for me, as
Speaker 1: a child looked like twenty minutes later, and he was fearless,
Speaker 1: and to see how powerful the ocean was, and that
Speaker 1: he blended so magnificently with it it. I became fascinated
Speaker 1: with the ocean as well, but my fascination did not
Speaker 1: allow me to step foot and start swimming in the
Speaker 1: ocean until I was older, because it is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1: And so I find between the mountains and the ocean,
Speaker 1: these things that have such dynamics and prowess and presence
Speaker 1: that they really did change me. And so I believe
Speaker 1: that day that I saw my dad walk into the
Speaker 1: ocean and swim and saw the beauty of the ocean,
Speaker 1: I said, this is the world is made of water.
Speaker 1: Where else can I go and have this moment? You know?
Speaker 1: And now you're deep water scuba diver exactly. I went
Speaker 1: from literally being being stuck on the sand to going
Speaker 1: to the depths of the ocean looking for shipwrick dives,
Speaker 1: diving with whale sharks, free diving. I love. I love
Speaker 1: the ocean because there's so much about it that's unknown
Speaker 1: and the mystery of it it keeps drawing me back.
Speaker 1: I'm a person, I'm who loves to explore. I'm an
Speaker 1: explore at heart, and so anything that there's still questions,
Speaker 1: I'm always seeking the answer. I think for me, a
Speaker 1: life changing moment was seeing Because I'm a diver as well,
Speaker 1: I'm a little rusty. I gotta get back and do
Speaker 1: more of it because it's easy to let the years
Speaker 1: go by and you realize that, um, you haven't been
Speaker 1: on the water in a while. But you know, seeing
Speaker 1: a shark doing a night dive and seeing a more
Speaker 1: a eel kind of weird. I mean, those are things.
Speaker 1: I think they're so charged and they're so exciting that
Speaker 1: you you literally I could go right back there in
Speaker 1: a second. I'm sure you've had experiences like that underwater too.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. I swam with the whale shark in Broom, Australia,
Speaker 1: UH late last year in and it was massive. It
Speaker 1: was massive. And that same day I swam with a
Speaker 1: hump back well, which I had no idea it could
Speaker 1: move that fast. The way it turned around and whipped
Speaker 1: towards me, I literally almost like lost my breath, Like
Speaker 1: holy smokes, you realize it came right at you, came
Speaker 1: right towards me, and I thought it was the day
Speaker 1: was gonna be over he that was gonna be the
Speaker 1: end of me. But you know, the creatures are so magnificent,
Speaker 1: and I love, really, really really love having these encounters
Speaker 1: with animals in their natural habitats. It really doesn't get
Speaker 1: any better than that. Whether it's in land, see air,
Speaker 1: no birds. I don't want any birds to fly by
Speaker 1: the plane. That's always a hazard. However, but you know,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the great outdoors,
Speaker 1: and so I've come across bare moves, I've seen wolves,
Speaker 1: you know, foxes, and I'm always just in awe. It's
Speaker 1: pretty incredible. I can relate. You mentioned the skies. I
Speaker 1: wanted to go there next because besides being a scuba divy,
Speaker 1: you're also a pilot. So being in the skies or underwater,
Speaker 1: there's some things that are they share in common, I think.
Speaker 1: But being detached from terra firma in a great way.
Speaker 1: What is it about that experience that um in the
Speaker 1: moment you love but also maybe changes your perspective from
Speaker 1: when you're back on the ground. Sure, I'll see. The
Speaker 1: most powerful thing for me about being in the air
Speaker 1: is a sense of freedom, right, the freedom that I
Speaker 1: have to take myself where I choose to go. The
Speaker 1: freedom of looking at the world below from a new perspective,
Speaker 1: the freedom of flight, Uh, feeling like a bird in
Speaker 1: a way. You know, that bird's eye view is truly unparalleled.
Speaker 1: And I'm not at thirty thousand feet in the clouds,
Speaker 1: you know, like on a commercial airliner. I fly a
Speaker 1: lot of general aviation aircrafts like Cessna's Piper Cherokees Serious
Speaker 1: icon A five where I'm at six feet and I'm
Speaker 1: seeing the mountains of the desert, the shoreline, and I
Speaker 1: also have my seaplane ratings, so I could also land
Speaker 1: on the water, and so that ability to be in
Speaker 1: the air, Oh my gosh, it was the best thing
Speaker 1: that I've done for my life. And a few of
Speaker 1: my friends who think that they can just call me
Speaker 1: up and take them somewhere, Hold on, buddy, hold on
Speaker 1: sky uber No, I think that's cool. You've you've taken
Speaker 1: some small planes into some treacherous air And how much
Speaker 1: of it was that adrenaline rush? Do you do you
Speaker 1: think you have that component in you? I mean, was
Speaker 1: it unintentionally an adventure or did you seek that out?
Speaker 1: So I seek adventure for sure. However, in an airplane
Speaker 1: you have to respect the air you have to respect
Speaker 1: the limitations of what the aircraft is capable of. And
Speaker 1: I intend on having a very long life for as
Speaker 1: long as I'm meant to be on this earth, and
Speaker 1: so I'm not a fool. So the times where I've
Speaker 1: had situations have definitely While you can check the weather
Speaker 1: and you'll have the weather on your um, you know
Speaker 1: what the tools that I used to know what it's
Speaker 1: like where I'm headed, I will say that I've had
Speaker 1: some surprises and they are scary. I mean, I remember
Speaker 1: flying in the Illusion chain Um headed out to nicole Ski, Alaska,
Speaker 1: and the weather said, I don't care that you have
Speaker 1: a place to be. I don't care. I'm going to
Speaker 1: turn your round two, three, four or five times because
Speaker 1: right now I'm running this thing. And so I literally
Speaker 1: was headed from Dutch Harbor to Nicolesky, Alaska for a
Speaker 1: shoe and we literally had to turn around I think
Speaker 1: three or four times. We just could not get over
Speaker 1: there into the weather cooperated. And you know, I can say,
Speaker 1: as a person who you know, also fly solo a lot,
Speaker 1: I've had times where I've had avionics go out, which
Speaker 1: means I cannot communicate to air traffic control towers or
Speaker 1: other pilots. Being in the airplane by yourself trying to
Speaker 1: fix a system is not fun, you know, So I
Speaker 1: have to trim the plane out, make sure I'm straightening
Speaker 1: level um, trying to literally become like an aircraft mechanic
Speaker 1: in the middle of the sky. Not fun. So I've
Speaker 1: also had times where you know, I'm taking off and
Speaker 1: you can, you know, lose an alternator and have to
Speaker 1: go into an emergency procedure, having a passenger in the
Speaker 1: plane with you for the very first time that you
Speaker 1: tricked them into getting in the plane in the first
Speaker 1: place because you say you're taking them to lunch. I'm
Speaker 1: taking you to lunch. Well, why are we at the
Speaker 1: airport because I'm going to fly us there. That's why
Speaker 1: you have that kind of friend. And then literally going
Speaker 1: into an emergency situation, having to rock my wings, making
Speaker 1: sure I'm communicating with the tower because they can't hear me,
Speaker 1: and landing the plane immediately. I mean, I've had so
Speaker 1: many experiences, but it does not stop me from always
Speaker 1: getting back up there. Because if you've ever felt what
Speaker 1: it's like to have the yok in your hand and
Speaker 1: an aircraft and know that that plane is going where
Speaker 1: you want it to go. It's a power that you
Speaker 1: never want to relinquish. I'm with you on flying adventurous places.
Speaker 1: I've had lots of um unintentionally adventurous flights and small planes,
Speaker 1: but not not at the controls. I'm good with someone
Speaker 1: else doing the control. You said something though, that that
Speaker 1: I think it's important for all people who love nature.
Speaker 1: You have a passion for it, but you respect the
Speaker 1: power of it, whether you're in the skies, under the water.
Speaker 1: I don't ever use the term conquering a mountain. I
Speaker 1: don't think you conquer or visit it. You pay respect
Speaker 1: to it and you leave. But nature is not something
Speaker 1: to be overcome or conquer. We are in nature. It's
Speaker 1: all together. And I think it's it's cool that you've
Speaker 1: had that that lesson reinforced under the water and in
Speaker 1: the skies and on land too. You've been able to
Speaker 1: turn your passion into a a fast growing empire, which
Speaker 1: is so cool. Well done with that. It's going to
Speaker 1: get bigger and bigger. I I just know. But what
Speaker 1: do you describe to people general question the power of travel?
Speaker 1: If you had to put it into words, I would
Speaker 1: say that the power of travel is humbling. It's necessary.
Speaker 1: And when I say travel, I don't want people to
Speaker 1: think that that means going across the world. Travel can
Speaker 1: be the town that you live in, exploring that the
Speaker 1: town next door, the state over. It's connecting with communities, cultures,
Speaker 1: people opposite genders of who you are to learn what
Speaker 1: makes the world go round. And from me, it's really
Speaker 1: changed the woman that I am as far as how
Speaker 1: I pay respect to my fellow man, my fellow human. Um.
Speaker 1: It also makes me check how I move in my
Speaker 1: own life. Um. When you go to some of these
Speaker 1: places that I've been, and you see they only have
Speaker 1: one water spickett for the entire town. Yet I turn
Speaker 1: on my water and it's running for five minutes before
Speaker 1: I get in it. You know, I have to say,
Speaker 1: there's people who don't have water. Why is your water
Speaker 1: on for so long before you step in it? Um,
Speaker 1: you don't want to finish that plate of food, but
Speaker 1: there's people who would do anything to have that last bit.
Speaker 1: And so for me, it's it balances me and my
Speaker 1: day to day actions because I've traveled and been able
Speaker 1: to experience so much of the world, especially being a
Speaker 1: young black woman coming from the South Side of Chicago
Speaker 1: and San Bernardino, California. These are not places that are
Speaker 1: very well known for um exploration and adventure, to say
Speaker 1: the least, And so I don't take it for granted.
Speaker 1: Um it's changed my life. I've seen it change other
Speaker 1: people's lives. I've introduced a lot of people to travel.
Speaker 1: I've purchased a lot of passports for Christmas for my friends.
Speaker 1: I feel like, no, I don't want to give you
Speaker 1: a pair of shoes. I'm going to give you this
Speaker 1: tool that you can see what you're made of in
Speaker 1: the world. And I've had people on trips with me
Speaker 1: and on trips that they've taken themselves, and say, why
Speaker 1: didn't I do this earlier? And I say, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's never too late to start.
Speaker 1: That's an awesome message. I think that it is important
Speaker 1: memory that adventure, you know, need not be exotic or
Speaker 1: far flung. Adventure just requires you to pack your curiosity
Speaker 1: right and be open to learning things and seeing things.
Speaker 1: And you can have adventures within the city you live
Speaker 1: right if you in your mind. So, what's the most
Speaker 1: mundane place that you visited? You ended up having an
Speaker 1: adventure and and some great memories of mm hmmm. I'd
Speaker 1: say I wasn't expecting too much out of like Joshua
Speaker 1: Tree because it looks like there's just like a bunch
Speaker 1: of Joshua trees, if that's what they're called, everywhere out there,
Speaker 1: and a lot of a lot of rock formations, and
Speaker 1: it's really really hot. Oh my gosh. I went camping
Speaker 1: out there overnight. I had never seen the stars so clear,
Speaker 1: so close to Los Angeles. You have a spiritual experience
Speaker 1: out there, and it was incredible, absolutely without any assistance.
Speaker 1: I mean, just a natural spiritual experience exactly, no, totally natural,
Speaker 1: and I mean when I say natural, just me, myself
Speaker 1: and me, no no additives. But I had a moment
Speaker 1: out there between the hiking, between looking at the beautiful
Speaker 1: rock formations, between being fascinated about how creatures survive in
Speaker 1: this climate. Um, I was really really shocked because for me,
Speaker 1: I love to find I need the trees, I want
Speaker 1: to see the moss, I need the streams and the
Speaker 1: rivers and hike to the lake, to the glaciers, and
Speaker 1: so to be in a desert, I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this could be okay. No. As soon as that sunset,
Speaker 1: I said, Oh, this place is gorgeous and you can
Speaker 1: find stunning things and and the things that you least expect.
Speaker 1: And so that's something that caught me a bit off
Speaker 1: guard because I usually go to places specifically looking for
Speaker 1: the I know the beauties there already. You know you're
Speaker 1: such a great storyteller. You're painting a picture. I'm wanna
Speaker 1: leave the city right now, would like to hang off.
Speaker 1: I just want to go out thea nature after hearing that,
Speaker 1: But what do you say to friends that you buy
Speaker 1: passports for, or just people you come in contact with
Speaker 1: and they say, Kelly, without judging them, I want to
Speaker 1: just be comfortable. I just want to relax, um fearful
Speaker 1: of this, or if they don't use the word fear,
Speaker 1: they're just reluctant. They don't want to be uncomfortable. And
Speaker 1: if that's the case, you can have nice vacations, but
Speaker 1: you may be shutting yourself off from experiences. You have
Speaker 1: a message when you hear that. Yes, I say all
Speaker 1: the time. Everything you want is on the other side
Speaker 1: of fear, for one. So if there's something out there
Speaker 1: that you're interested in doing, but you just don't know
Speaker 1: how to begin. Let's look into that and life mus
Speaker 1: begins at the end of your comfort zone. Okay, it
Speaker 1: really does. And so while I also love to lay
Speaker 1: on the beach and have a nice beverage and listen
Speaker 1: to the waves lapping amongst the sand, that's fine. However,
Speaker 1: they're so often so much more there for you only
Speaker 1: if you're willing to explore and see it with your eyes.
Speaker 1: I don't force adventure on anyone. People are seeing through
Speaker 1: my journey that they can do it too, right, and
Speaker 1: it makes them curious. The only thing I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do is spark curiosity. And if I can do that,
Speaker 1: your brain will do the rest of the work for me,
Speaker 1: because it will be in your subconscious of man, I
Speaker 1: keep saying no to that, but it sure keeps popping
Speaker 1: up in my thoughts. Maybe it's time to try. And
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time all I do is
Speaker 1: just try everything. I'm not an expert in anything. I
Speaker 1: don't know at all. I'm consistently and constantly learning. And
Speaker 1: you can do the same thing too. We both wake
Speaker 1: up and we put two feet on the ground to
Speaker 1: start our day. What are you gonna do with yours?
Speaker 1: I classify travel as either it's a vacation or and
Speaker 1: are like you said, lay in the beach, a trip,
Speaker 1: you got other places you experience things, and then an adventure.
Speaker 1: And I think it's nice to have a balance of
Speaker 1: all three. Right whatever we all need to chill out,
Speaker 1: need not be demanding, but it's also need to just
Speaker 1: go somewhere. Did you ever have the notion you want
Speaker 1: to go to some big international airport, look at the
Speaker 1: flight board, You've packed versatile clothing, you pack lightly, and
Speaker 1: just look at the board and go, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: to is Stembul, or I'm gonna go to Bangkok. I've
Speaker 1: never done that, but my wife and I have talked
Speaker 1: about doing that at some point that we will. That
Speaker 1: would be amazing and an incredibly expensive ticket the day of. However, hey,
Speaker 1: I think that would be an absolute amazing experience to do.
Speaker 1: And you're sparking a thought in me right now that
Speaker 1: maybe that will be. Who knows, We're all end up
Speaker 1: what's available, and hey, especially right now, I mean we
Speaker 1: have such limited choices. It's like, okay, we've got these
Speaker 1: five places there to get to that in a second.
Speaker 1: But I also want to ask you, why do you
Speaker 1: think that the travel experience, and maybe specifically the adventure
Speaker 1: travel experience, has all been filtered through a mail lens,
Speaker 1: and specifically a white male lens. Until you why did
Speaker 1: it take so half long? And how does he how
Speaker 1: do you feel about being a pioneer in that area?
Speaker 1: I love talking about this, Chris, I knew you did.
Speaker 1: So to answer your first question, how do I feel
Speaker 1: about adventure being through a white male lens? I think
Speaker 1: it's a tragedy. And that is because when you think
Speaker 1: about the explorers of the world, they are not all
Speaker 1: white males. If you think about the Inca Trail, the
Speaker 1: Native people who lived there were running that trail. When
Speaker 1: you think about America, the Native Americans knew this land
Speaker 1: before anyone came here. I think about Matthew Henson, who
Speaker 1: was the first person to reach the North Pole, who
Speaker 1: was also a black man. Where is his story? Why
Speaker 1: don't we hear more about him? When we think about
Speaker 1: aviation and pilots, we hear about the Wright brothers and
Speaker 1: Howard Hughes, But what about Bessie Coleman. We hear about
Speaker 1: Amelia Earhart, right, But Bessie Coleman was the first black
Speaker 1: woman to get her pilot's license in a year before
Speaker 1: Amelia Earhart. And so there are so many different faces
Speaker 1: that are having adventures, and yet the narrative between media, marketing, television,
Speaker 1: film all show up in the face of the white
Speaker 1: male at the top of Everest with the chiseled jaw
Speaker 1: looking out the side. And I'll tell you, I've been
Speaker 1: to some of these same mountains that they've been and
Speaker 1: I look nothing like them at all. And so why
Speaker 1: it's taken so long for a person like myself to
Speaker 1: appear in this space is because media was not comfortable
Speaker 1: with the truth that there are other people, because they
Speaker 1: were appealing to their core consumer, because that is what's
Speaker 1: been ingrained in our society. And so when people start
Speaker 1: to become aware of me, I can't tell you how
Speaker 1: many times I was told, Wow, we love you. We've
Speaker 1: never seen anyone like you on our network. You're also
Speaker 1: doing more things than people are on our network, but
Speaker 1: we don't know how our audience will take to you.
Speaker 1: Do you know? Do you know how that that that feels?
Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. But what I did instead, as I
Speaker 1: came up with the plan, I said, Okay, you guys
Speaker 1: aren't ready I stay ready. I'm going to continue having
Speaker 1: my adventures. I'm going to continue exploring by land there
Speaker 1: and see as a diver, mountaineer, outdoors woman, and dance
Speaker 1: open water diver, and I'm going to start getting attention
Speaker 1: from other people who find it interesting and want to
Speaker 1: give me press. And then you guys will come calling
Speaker 1: back and it won't be me looking for you, It'll
Speaker 1: be you looking for me. And that's what happened. So
Speaker 1: I took my power back because I was trying to
Speaker 1: ask for permission to be represent it and have presents
Speaker 1: and instead said, no, I don't need to ask permission
Speaker 1: for that. I'm already here. This is also my world
Speaker 1: to explore to what's for the most gratifying reaction to
Speaker 1: that position, because no one needs permission to travel with
Speaker 1: if you see things constantly filtered through a middle aged
Speaker 1: white guy lens and may not spark your imagination in
Speaker 1: the same way for some folks that that seeing you
Speaker 1: do these things does. So what's been the best feedback
Speaker 1: you've gotten in terms of Kelly, you really open my eyes,
Speaker 1: you changed my perspective, or I feel liberated now to
Speaker 1: do things that I didn't before. Sure, I've had a
Speaker 1: few examples. There was a fifty five year old woman
Speaker 1: who came up to me and says she started taking
Speaker 1: swimming lessons because she saw me swimming in the water
Speaker 1: on television. I'm like, I'm sorry. She's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I it's time for me to learn how to swim.
Speaker 1: And so I started taking lessons because I saw you.
Speaker 1: I have parents writing letters to me on behalf of
Speaker 1: little girls, saying that my daughter saw you on television
Speaker 1: or in this magazine, and she now knows that she
Speaker 1: can be an explored too, and that she can fly
Speaker 1: planes to UM. I had a little girl who was
Speaker 1: picked on UM as a tomboy uh and and on
Speaker 1: her block, and the mom reached out to me to
Speaker 1: say that I went to show my daughter. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't want to cry it. My daughter was getting picked
Speaker 1: on by these boys because of her loving being outside
Speaker 1: and the outdoors. And I wanted to show her women
Speaker 1: doing these things too, And so I googled you and
Speaker 1: I brought you up, and she said, oh my gosh, mommy,
Speaker 1: she's she's a girl like me. I can do I
Speaker 1: can do these things. It's not just for boys. So
Speaker 1: when you get that type of feedback from young women,
Speaker 1: people of color, people who have never thought they can
Speaker 1: do any of these things, and just my presence changes
Speaker 1: their perspective. It's been very powerful. I never set out
Speaker 1: to be a role model, um, but I'm proud that
Speaker 1: through me living my life and leading by example, people
Speaker 1: know that it is not inaccessible for them, because it
Speaker 1: truly is. And I don't want other people to even
Speaker 1: to have to wait on me to do something to
Speaker 1: think that they can do it. I say, charge your
Speaker 1: own path, you know, do what makes you happy, do
Speaker 1: what you're curious about, and then you'll find out who
Speaker 1: you are as a person. Don't even be better than me,
Speaker 1: I say all the time. Don't stop where I stop.
Speaker 1: That's just a foundation. Shoot for the stars. Like literally,
Speaker 1: someone become an astronaut. Thank you. That's so powerful. I
Speaker 1: think it's because you didn't set out to do it.
Speaker 1: You didn't set out to be a pioneer necessarily or
Speaker 1: a role model. It just came from place of authenticity.
Speaker 1: That's what I think makes it more powerful and stronger
Speaker 1: connection with people. That's that's cool. Um, most interesting woman
Speaker 1: in the world. That's some title to have. Oh boy,
Speaker 1: could create some pressure in the way that a comedian
Speaker 1: feels that need to be funny every time he's around strangers.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you find most interesting about yourself?
Speaker 1: Not a not an easy question for a lot of
Speaker 1: people to answer, not at all, Holy shmokes. I've never
Speaker 1: even thought about that, but if I had to right now,
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting thing about myself is that
Speaker 1: I have escaped a narrative that was created for me.
Speaker 1: I'm I literally said, I am this, and I am
Speaker 1: not that. I'm not that. There's no way I'm going
Speaker 1: to allow anyone to pigeonhole me, to stereotype me two
Speaker 1: think that I'm not capable of something. I'm going to
Speaker 1: show up and learn what I'm supposed to do here
Speaker 1: with my time on Earth. And so I think the
Speaker 1: most fascinating thing about me is that I have literally
Speaker 1: created my own narrative without the guidance of anyone who's
Speaker 1: done it prior to me. The way I'm doing these things,
Speaker 1: and I get the sense that you're still creating there's
Speaker 1: still more dimensions. Yeah, wait and see what the next
Speaker 1: projects are, what the new dimensions are, because, Uh, talking
Speaker 1: to you, it feels like things are limitless. But unfortunately
Speaker 1: I do want to get around to the limits that
Speaker 1: have been placed on us because travel has been put
Speaker 1: on pause. Everybody knows that it's been difficult to go
Speaker 1: anywhere for a while, and they're very uncertain about when
Speaker 1: and how that's going to look in the future. So
Speaker 1: I know you get ask a lot this, but what
Speaker 1: what would you say to someone who said, Kelly, I've
Speaker 1: I've been to these places before, but I'm worried about
Speaker 1: going back, or I've never had the chance to experience
Speaker 1: these places I've meant to now I haven't been able to.
Speaker 1: How would you allay those concerns for the people in
Speaker 1: the post pandemic assuming we can get a vaccine and
Speaker 1: things will be getting back to UM closer than what
Speaker 1: they were before. Sure, So I'd like to preface that
Speaker 1: with the fact that I have been traveling during the
Speaker 1: pandemic um very cautiously, very safely, and there are ways
Speaker 1: to navigate UM while being considered of your own health
Speaker 1: and that of others. And if we're talking, you know,
Speaker 1: post pandemic, I say, if anything, with the quarantine and
Speaker 1: having to stay put, that is the time to pay
Speaker 1: attention to your bucket list, right If there's a place
Speaker 1: you want to go and it's open. As we can
Speaker 1: see that this world can be turned upside down in
Speaker 1: a minute. Do not wait a year longer two explore, um,
Speaker 1: look at the safety precautions there, Respect the rules in
Speaker 1: place there, respect the airplane rules. You know, there's still
Speaker 1: people who don't want to keep on a mask while
Speaker 1: they're flying. And I just really wish people would realize
Speaker 1: it's not always necessarily about you, It's also about the
Speaker 1: person next to you. This is a time to understand, um,
Speaker 1: how to come together as a community for your fellow
Speaker 1: mankind so that we can literally get out of this.
Speaker 1: So for me, I literally have not only a face
Speaker 1: mask a face shield, I have a full body suit. UM,
Speaker 1: I have hand sanitizer wipes. I have a key that
Speaker 1: is attached to my key chain that I don't have
Speaker 1: to touch any doors, even bathroom doors. And so I
Speaker 1: am fully equipped to to still travel because I take
Speaker 1: the necessary precautions. So if you think you're just going
Speaker 1: to pack your bag and head to the airport like
Speaker 1: old times, know that the that's no longer the case.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about the abstract world beyond all this.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you get this question. But it's always
Speaker 1: interesting to me to think about adventures you haven't had
Speaker 1: but you've dreamt of, and what what one or two
Speaker 1: of those might be, and and what your expectations are
Speaker 1: for those places. Absolutely, so, I want to go to
Speaker 1: Antarctica really, really bad, because it's not an easy destination
Speaker 1: to reach, and the wildlife is incredible. I want to
Speaker 1: see the glaciers. Um. I would love to do some
Speaker 1: sort of scientific research down there. I know they have
Speaker 1: several stations um that are looking into the effects of
Speaker 1: you know, global warming and pollution on our system, I
Speaker 1: mean on our in our world. You know, you would
Speaker 1: be surprised at how many of the plastics that are
Speaker 1: in the ocean end up all the way down in
Speaker 1: Antarctica and are being trapped um in in the ice
Speaker 1: and in the glaciers. And so I would love to
Speaker 1: have my bill neither science guy moment down in Antarctica. UM.
Speaker 1: Could you other air strips down there? Forget my ignorance?
Speaker 1: Can you can you get a plane and get down
Speaker 1: there and see Antarctica from the air. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: can because they definitely have airstrips down there. Um. It
Speaker 1: won't be in a little CESSI and I'll think I'll
Speaker 1: need something with a little bit more power, um, just
Speaker 1: because that is also very much in no man's land
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. So you want to be
Speaker 1: able to have some some power to you know, carry
Speaker 1: um some extra gear with you, to say the least,
Speaker 1: to be prepared for anything. I'd also love to go
Speaker 1: to Borneo. Um. That is a place where they have
Speaker 1: so many unknown species, tons of well known species. It's
Speaker 1: it's the jungle. And I think I'm Laura Croft and
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones, and so I want to be in the
Speaker 1: jungle with my machete, traversing the land and you know,
Speaker 1: put these survival skills I have to test in the
Speaker 1: extreme environment like that. I've seen some posts with you
Speaker 1: with with skeletons. I'm not sure that you're the tomb raider,
Speaker 1: but I've seen you. I've seen you in some tombs.
Speaker 1: So that's that's so inspiring. It's so much fun. I
Speaker 1: hope the woman from South South Chicago gets to the
Speaker 1: South Pole someday. I know it's gonna it's gonna be
Speaker 1: really cool and interesting and inspiring to see what you've
Speaker 1: got at your sleeve next. And uh, I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: this time than just keep just keep being you, Kelly,
Speaker 1: because it's exciting to observe. Oh, thank you so much, Chris.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time and you are amazing in
Speaker 1: so many ways, so it's been an honor to speak
Speaker 1: to you as well. Kelly is one of the favorite
Speaker 1: people that I met doing this podcast so far. You
Speaker 1: can check out her website and blog Kelly set go
Speaker 1: dot com, got a podcast with travel and leisure Let's
Speaker 1: Go Together, and her Instagram posts bring a smile on
Speaker 1: my face at Kelly Edwards. She spells Kelly k E
Speaker 1: double L double E. Lee Abbamonte lives in New York
Speaker 1: and during the shutdown months he explored the city just
Speaker 1: about every square foot of it on foot. His appetite
Speaker 1: for travel, all kinds of travel is incredible. His knowledge
Speaker 1: is encyclopedic. It's actually kind of scary. If you need
Speaker 1: a Mexican restaurant in Morocco, Lee probably has a top
Speaker 1: three for you. Before meeting him, I thought I was
Speaker 1: a travel junkie. On a long flight last year, I
Speaker 1: grabbed the map from an airline magazine and countered off
Speaker 1: sixties six countries that I've been to. Not including autonomous
Speaker 1: territories like the Canary Islands or St. Martin, Alaska is
Speaker 1: the only state that I haven't visited, and it's very
Speaker 1: high on my to do list. But Lee has every
Speaker 1: passport staff that you can collect. He didn't start out
Speaker 1: with the checklist, but eventually he figured why not checking
Speaker 1: off that last country? It was a brush with death.
Speaker 1: He would not recommend, but it's an unbelievable story to
Speaker 1: have and a good place to start. So Lee, you've
Speaker 1: visited every U N recke now this country except one,
Speaker 1: and the one is Libya, and you choose to go
Speaker 1: at a pretty interesting time in the history of that country.
Speaker 1: Tell me the story of the country to finally let
Speaker 1: you check off all of them. Yeah. So back in Uhleven,
Speaker 1: I had been to about a hundred hundred ninety or
Speaker 1: so countries and the hundred so I went on this
Speaker 1: big trip and I was going to go to some
Speaker 1: of the more romantic destinations like Somalia, Algeria, Sudan, and Libya.
Speaker 1: And at that time I was able to get to
Speaker 1: three of those four. And then the Arab Spring happened
Speaker 1: and Libya was no flies on all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, all the drama that went on down there,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't able to get there in March when
Speaker 1: I went so in August, I got an email from
Speaker 1: a guy I know in Cairo and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you can get into the border of Egypt
Speaker 1: and Libya and kind of sneak in there because there's
Speaker 1: nobody guarding the border. Basically, I was like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: And I literally got on a plane at New York
Speaker 1: and flew to Cairo and then flew out to this
Speaker 1: remote desert outpost called Mercer Mutro, which no one's ever
Speaker 1: heard of. It's about three hundred miles from the border,
Speaker 1: right And I get there. I have no idea what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. And I literally had like five thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in my pocket, and I figured I was gonna
Speaker 1: have to pay somebody something. And uh, I like, don't
Speaker 1: speak but three words of Arabic and I get off
Speaker 1: the plane and I had no idea, and I'm like
Speaker 1: this guy over here, he's wearing a like, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a sport code with our Libyan rebel of pell pans,
Speaker 1: so he maybe he speaks English. I go over to him,
Speaker 1: so do you speak English? He goes yeah, and I
Speaker 1: go here's what I'm trying to do. And he looks
Speaker 1: at me like I got seven heads. He's like, what
Speaker 1: do you want to go into Olivia? Like what? And uh?
Speaker 1: And I was like can you translate to the taxi
Speaker 1: driver him drive me to the border. And he goes, well,
Speaker 1: then what are you gonna do? I'm like, I have
Speaker 1: no idea. And then he goes, all right, listen, kid,
Speaker 1: you're gonna come in the car with me. My brother
Speaker 1: is coming from to Brook, Olivia with a minivan and
Speaker 1: we're gonna drive across the border and we're gonna smuggle
Speaker 1: you in. And I'm like, oh, that sounds great, man, awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It didn't even occur to me that this is weird, right,
Speaker 1: It was just like so excited. And so we go
Speaker 1: fast or three hundred miles. Okay, we're at the border
Speaker 1: with these two Libyan guys who had never met before,
Speaker 1: and we're in line at the border. We leave Egypt
Speaker 1: and we're in line at the border of Olibya. Right. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, seemed normal, seemed normal, seem normal. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, we're about three or four cars back, about
Speaker 1: thirty forty ft from the actual like border itself where
Speaker 1: you show the passports, but on the other side of
Speaker 1: the border, this big truck of Chinese smugglers trying to
Speaker 1: smuggle fake Marlborough's cigarettes from Libya into Egypt because they
Speaker 1: didn't want to have to pay the Egyptian tariff. Because
Speaker 1: there was no government in Libya, they thought they could
Speaker 1: smuggle it in without having to pay, So, you know,
Speaker 1: it seemed like a good idea, right. The only problem
Speaker 1: was the Libyan rebels were at that point controlling the
Speaker 1: border where they hadn't been I guess prior, and they
Speaker 1: started arguing about the payment blah blah blah. There was
Speaker 1: about fifty Chinese guys on top of this truck and
Speaker 1: then there's probably I don't know, fifteen or twenty Libyan
Speaker 1: rebels and they're all armed. And then these guys just
Speaker 1: start shooting at each other and on the other side
Speaker 1: of the border were it away, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the car gets hit three times and I'm in the
Speaker 1: back of this car with these people who I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, go, go, go, you know, and uh
Speaker 1: go and go and go where they're firing like into
Speaker 1: the like like just I'm like back on, yeah, and
Speaker 1: the guy like slams on the on the gas like backwards,
Speaker 1: hits the car behind him like peels out like basically
Speaker 1: into the desert about half a mile, I think. And meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I'm like ducking, But I'm also kind of like looking
Speaker 1: through the window, you know, to see what the hell
Speaker 1: is going on, and uh, you know, we sat there
Speaker 1: for about three hours, right and you can see, like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's like dead people, and uh, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the guy goes to me, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: we can go now, and I'm like, okay, man, sure.
Speaker 1: Here I am in the middle of no man's land
Speaker 1: between Egypt and Olivia. And we go back in line
Speaker 1: and we're about you know, four or five cars back again,
Speaker 1: and the guy goes, okay, give me your passport, and
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, here's my passport. And they whispered
Speaker 1: some stuff to his his brother in Arabic, and then
Speaker 1: he turns to me and he goes, all right, kid,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. And I'm like okay. He goes, You're
Speaker 1: gonna be a humanitarian dentist going into Libya to do
Speaker 1: dental work for the Libyan people. And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm not a dentist. Like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: He goes, it doesn't matter. Nobody in Libya has straight teeth.
Speaker 1: To just smile, points your teeth and that's like all
Speaker 1: you need to do. So I give my passport, we
Speaker 1: get to the to the border. He whispers some stuff
Speaker 1: in Arabic to the other guy. Guy looks at my passport,
Speaker 1: looks at me, and he smiles and he points to
Speaker 1: his teeth, and he just goes, welcome to Libya. And
Speaker 1: I did the exact same thing. And then I was
Speaker 1: in Libya. I mean there's about three different spots there
Speaker 1: where Number one, they said sneak across the border. Before
Speaker 1: you left, you thought good idea. Then you hear the
Speaker 1: plan and it's like the US the word smuggle you
Speaker 1: in and you were still all in for that. And
Speaker 1: then there's been carnage of the border and you gotta
Speaker 1: loop back and go in there. Did you ever stop
Speaker 1: to think what happens once you get inside Libya? I mean,
Speaker 1: the gold is seeing it in the country. What the
Speaker 1: all happens once you crush the border? Isn't that it's
Speaker 1: still a really dangerous place to be a percent but
Speaker 1: I figure, you know, I've been in war zones before,
Speaker 1: like I've been in Iraq, I've been in Afghanistan, had
Speaker 1: been in uh Iran, Somalia, Syria. So yeah, man. So
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I got this. I just got
Speaker 1: to get across and then I can kind of figure
Speaker 1: it out. And this guy really seemed to know what
Speaker 1: he was talking about. It was like a sixth sense,
Speaker 1: Like I felt comfortable with the guy even though I
Speaker 1: didn't know him. I could tell like he knew what
Speaker 1: he was doing. It turns out the guy's like a
Speaker 1: u N dissident, right. He hadn't been in Libya in
Speaker 1: forty one years. Uh, he left when Kadafi took over,
Speaker 1: and he hadn't seen his family, and that long he
Speaker 1: was going back for the first time. It's like nineteen,
Speaker 1: you know, sixty whatever it was, and uh and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And then he insists like that, I
Speaker 1: come to his family's apartment and like, you know, meet everybody.
Speaker 1: And there was like fifty people in the apartment and
Speaker 1: none of them even cared that he was there. They
Speaker 1: all just wanted to like stare at me and like
Speaker 1: take pictures and like practice their English. And asked me questions.
Speaker 1: It was like crazy, man. It was like one of
Speaker 1: those moments if you don't put yourself in these absolutely
Speaker 1: ridiculous situations, you don't understand. But it's just like one
Speaker 1: of those moments where you felt like humanity was okay.
Speaker 1: You know, well that's a great, happy ending. But did
Speaker 1: it ever occur to you You You might be that guy
Speaker 1: that pops up on CNN American citizen taking a hostage,
Speaker 1: and now you become the focal point of some international incident,
Speaker 1: you know, and they have to get you out of there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I thought about that a few times. It
Speaker 1: wasn't This wasn't the only time I thought that might happen.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but I mean, in hindsight, it was like stupid, obviously,
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it makes a good story
Speaker 1: to be chapter one of my book, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's fun to tell there. I mean, I love
Speaker 1: to talk to people about life changing moments and travel
Speaker 1: and they can take on different forms. They can be
Speaker 1: moments that after the fact you realize why that was
Speaker 1: very important. My perspective was changed. I was a different
Speaker 1: person afterwards. And then there are also moments where you're
Speaker 1: aware of it in that second, Like you realize the
Speaker 1: minute you put your eyes on something, or there might
Speaker 1: be an aroma that you smell or or someone that
Speaker 1: you meet that right now this moment, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be quite the same. I'm changed. I'm inspired in
Speaker 1: a new way. Give me an example of something right
Speaker 1: in the moment other than being an a war zone
Speaker 1: where you realized, Wow, just take all this in because
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be quite the same after this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of times where that's really happened
Speaker 1: to me. And when I say a couple, I mean
Speaker 1: like dozens for sure. And uh, but I'll go back
Speaker 1: to the first time it happened to me. I grew
Speaker 1: up in Trumble, Connecticut and never traveled as a kid.
Speaker 1: My family didn't have any money, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: never a thing. I never even thought about it. You know.
Speaker 1: All I did was play sports, watch sports, hanging out
Speaker 1: with my friends, and you know, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: not struggle like my parents. So I was just focused on,
Speaker 1: like getting a degree and making money. Anyway. I studied
Speaker 1: abroad my junior in college. I went to the University
Speaker 1: of Maryland and then I went out to London, and
Speaker 1: you know, I just remember getting off the plane in
Speaker 1: Heathrow and uh, just hearing the voices and then like
Speaker 1: we were trying to get a cab right and it
Speaker 1: was like one of those old school London black cabs,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was like blew me away and
Speaker 1: they drive on the other side of the street in London,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, you know, this is September. It
Speaker 1: was actually the day Mark McGuire hit his sixty first
Speaker 1: home run that year that I landed in London. I
Speaker 1: was freaked out that I was going to miss the
Speaker 1: end of the home run race because I'm a huge
Speaker 1: baseball guy, and uh, you know, but then as soon
Speaker 1: as I landed, I almost kind of forgot about it.
Speaker 1: And I was in London and it just blew my mind.
Speaker 1: And then two weeks later we took the chunnel to
Speaker 1: to Paris. You know, it was crazy about Paris. They
Speaker 1: speak French in France. Heard that unbelievable to me at
Speaker 1: the time, and I was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is just mind blowing stuff. And everything that I've ever
Speaker 1: seen on TV or read in books. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: like living a book right now, or I'm like living
Speaker 1: one of these crazy TV travel shows that I you know,
Speaker 1: I had seen on television as a kid, and it
Speaker 1: just was crazy. And that continued that whole year in Europe,
Speaker 1: and um, that just changed my my whole life, my
Speaker 1: whole perspective everything. I think the first thing you lay
Speaker 1: eyes on Paris, for a lot of people, it has
Speaker 1: an immediate connection. UM yeah, I think you're like me.
Speaker 1: I we didn't travel as a family glamorously. We didn't
Speaker 1: have a bunch of money. We loaded up the family
Speaker 1: in the station where again and we drove around. And
Speaker 1: for me as a kid, a big life changing moment
Speaker 1: was eating lobster at a restaurant in Maine with the
Speaker 1: bib on you. I remember, I had never had a
Speaker 1: lobster before and they made my parents made a big
Speaker 1: deal out of it. And there we were where you
Speaker 1: saw the live lobster and then you see it cooked.
Speaker 1: The next thing you know, it's on your plate. And
Speaker 1: and visiting the Kellogg's factory in Battle Creek, Michigan, and
Speaker 1: taking a jeep tour through Bison and the Black Hills
Speaker 1: of South Dakota. That's what we did. I know, there
Speaker 1: are lots of kids that are fortunate enough to take
Speaker 1: these big exotic international trips, but maybe maybe not having
Speaker 1: that as kids. And I talked to Kelly Edwards about
Speaker 1: this another guest, and she felt the same way. We
Speaker 1: you know it just we were never exposed to it,
Speaker 1: so you kind of sponge it up and you dive
Speaker 1: in with enthusiasm once you get a chance to do
Speaker 1: it when you're older. Yeah, it was. I've never not
Speaker 1: appreciated anything I've ever done, like every single time I traveled,
Speaker 1: even now when I've been everywhere, I still appreciate everything,
Speaker 1: and I never take it for granted because it could
Speaker 1: have never happened. I mean if I, uh, if I
Speaker 1: didn't go to abroad, I mean, who knows if I
Speaker 1: ever would have traveled. I mean, I'm sure I would
Speaker 1: have at some point in my life, but at the
Speaker 1: same time, it never would have been what ended up happening.
Speaker 1: And I was always I always like maps, and I
Speaker 1: always read a lot as a kid about stuff. I
Speaker 1: liked history, and I love sports, so it all kind
Speaker 1: of like tied in when I went to Europe and
Speaker 1: then later in Australia and I got it really into
Speaker 1: aus rules football and things like f one in tennis
Speaker 1: and golf, and especially these soccer, These international sports really
Speaker 1: kind of brought me to places that I wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 1: Are you someone that strikes up conversations with the locals.
Speaker 1: Is that an important part for you to to really
Speaker 1: get to know people or do you kind of keep
Speaker 1: to yourself? Oh? No, God, yeah, no, I'm I'm as
Speaker 1: outgoing as they come, and I love talking. But that's
Speaker 1: part of international sports that I think is significantly better,
Speaker 1: is that everyone kind of comes together and talks about it.
Speaker 1: And you said beer, I was called the international language
Speaker 1: of beer, because you know, everybody is just happy and
Speaker 1: having a good time and it's crazy. Especially soccer and rugby.
Speaker 1: I think that those are the two most kind of
Speaker 1: communal games. Maybe not during a big soccer match when
Speaker 1: everybody's like on edge, but you know, before and after
Speaker 1: for sure, and rugby just the whole I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you about the rugby. I wondered if rugby was
Speaker 1: one of your favorites because socially, especially the party seeing
Speaker 1: rugby is right at the top. Yeah, it's a bar
Speaker 1: It's a barbarians game played by gentlemen, as they say,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know they acted you know on the pitch,
Speaker 1: but then they drank like gentlemen. Fans are not gentlemen,
Speaker 1: though my experience of rugby fans are more barbarian than gentlemen.
Speaker 1: And that's a beautiful thing when you can Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean sports and beer that are two really big international languages.
Speaker 1: You throw food in there, and you've checked a lot
Speaker 1: of boxes. What I look about your philosophy is it's
Speaker 1: really and and people focus on the checklist and they
Speaker 1: focus on, hey, can I get a good picture? Can
Speaker 1: I enhance my brand? Is its social media post ready?
Speaker 1: And that's not how you think. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what's important about trying to explain far flung travel to
Speaker 1: people have an experience. I mean, don't don't view it
Speaker 1: as though you're accomplishing something. View it as though you're
Speaker 1: experiencing something and opening yourself, uh to something that is
Speaker 1: a little bit uncomfortable, and you haven't. It's it's different,
Speaker 1: is good, right, Yeah, it's funny. My My favorite saying
Speaker 1: is to be a real traveler, you have to be
Speaker 1: comfortable being uncomfortable and uh, you know, and for me,
Speaker 1: I've been in so many places in situations like that
Speaker 1: where I'm like, boy, this really stuffs, but this is
Speaker 1: awesome at the same time, you know, and uh, and
Speaker 1: I love that and uh, to me, there's nothing nothing better.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned like people doing things for the checklist
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I think it's okay to you know,
Speaker 1: have a list of places that you want to go
Speaker 1: and do them, but you got to do stuff there.
Speaker 1: You have to like experience it and do the things
Speaker 1: that they're are to do and talk to people who
Speaker 1: live there and experience it. That that's the real experience.
Speaker 1: And for me, you know, I started doing all this
Speaker 1: stuff long before social media and I just point to
Speaker 1: the country in the world because I wanted to. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like to impress anybody or to get on TV
Speaker 1: or you know, do any of this stuff. I just
Speaker 1: did it because it was something I love to do
Speaker 1: and I just thought it would be cool. And uh,
Speaker 1: I never thought it would like lead to anything work
Speaker 1: wise or anything like that. It was just something I did.
Speaker 1: And uh. And now I see people are doing in
Speaker 1: different ways, and I'm like, all right, you know, to
Speaker 1: each of their own. But for me, um, what you
Speaker 1: said is exactly correct. For me, comfortable with being uncomfortable
Speaker 1: doesn't always extend to roughing at the right aft to
Speaker 1: admit we traveled pretty softly now. I mean part of
Speaker 1: it is you see a great resort, you want the
Speaker 1: best room, You want to seek out the best meals.
Speaker 1: I know when you started though, like a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you know, it was backpacking, it was it was going
Speaker 1: around Europe, and it wasn't wasn't a five star accommodations.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's important for people when they start
Speaker 1: out to do it rough first or does it? Does
Speaker 1: it make a difference, do they get a greater appreciation
Speaker 1: of the finer thing? Not everybody can afford it, obviously
Speaker 1: you're you're some some travel that way because there was
Speaker 1: no other choice and they just want to They want
Speaker 1: to see what they can on a shoestring budget. But
Speaker 1: did you did it make any difference to you that
Speaker 1: you did kind of start out doing it modestly one
Speaker 1: million percent? And I'm glad you asked that because I
Speaker 1: always say the way I travel evolved as I evolved.
Speaker 1: So like when I first left the country at twenty
Speaker 1: years old, I mean, you're a twenty year old kid,
Speaker 1: You're you're dumb, you're young, you don't know anything. You
Speaker 1: just want to have fun. I was excited that I
Speaker 1: could drink without a fake idea in Europe, you know,
Speaker 1: so uh it was the whole hostile thing was the
Speaker 1: backpacking in the hostel and the yeah, sit sitting in
Speaker 1: the back of the train with the chickens and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well in Africa, yeah, but the hostels in Europe. I mean,
Speaker 1: I basically my entire twenties were spent in hostels and
Speaker 1: it was like some of the best times in my life.
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't replace those for anything, you know. I
Speaker 1: didn't like the guy from like Norway who was snoring
Speaker 1: one of the sixteen people in in the room with me,
Speaker 1: or he got up before in the morning and was
Speaker 1: like hooking up with some girl or something like that,
Speaker 1: keeping you awake, and you're like, god, dude, you know,
Speaker 1: but you didn't want to pay the extra dollar fifty
Speaker 1: and night to get the four person room, you know,
Speaker 1: because you figured you could have a couple of extra
Speaker 1: beers with that money at that time. Would you ever
Speaker 1: do that again? Though? I mean, look, look, you're you're
Speaker 1: painting a romantic picture in the moment. Some of that
Speaker 1: stuff really sucks. I've been in those rooms where people
Speaker 1: are staring too when you can't get to sleep it.
Speaker 1: I mean, now that you can stay anywhere, do you
Speaker 1: do you find it more romantic or do you ever
Speaker 1: go back and just I'm gonna find a little one
Speaker 1: star hotel that nobody's ever heard of and just kind
Speaker 1: of rock up there and grab a room. Well, I mean, really,
Speaker 1: it depends where you go. I mean, because I still
Speaker 1: go to places where there's not like nice hotels, so
Speaker 1: you just kind of take what you can get. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like that old it's saying, right, travels
Speaker 1: glamorous only in hindsight, and nothing really epitomizes that more
Speaker 1: than staying in hostiles because everything about it goes against
Speaker 1: everything you want and you know you should be able
Speaker 1: to achieve, but you love it anyway, and you keep
Speaker 1: doing it because of the party atmosphere and you get
Speaker 1: to meet so many people and it's cheap, right, But
Speaker 1: as you get older, you start to evolve like what
Speaker 1: you like and air conditioning is nice and having your
Speaker 1: own bathroom is nice, and buffet breakfasts are nice and
Speaker 1: you know things like that. Um, so again, it just
Speaker 1: it just depends. But when I go back and do it, yeah,
Speaker 1: and the heartbeat. I would and I have some friends
Speaker 1: that still do it at four years old. UM, I
Speaker 1: haven't stayed I'll be honest, I haven't stayed in the hospital.
Speaker 1: Last moment into maybe in two thousand eleven. But since then,
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of camping. Uh, you know, not
Speaker 1: necessarily by choice. Um, but uh, you know I could
Speaker 1: do it if I had to. And I also have
Speaker 1: great memories, so I also don't feel the need to.
Speaker 1: Well put, we share a passion for Africa. Um. The
Speaker 1: first night I was in Africa, was was in a tent,
Speaker 1: you know, on the ground in in Tanzania, and you
Speaker 1: could hear the lions ring in the distance, and you
Speaker 1: can hear the hyenas munching on the bones at the
Speaker 1: edge of the camp. And then you know, graduated to
Speaker 1: the sinks and the Lawda lozzies and the finest accommodations
Speaker 1: I've ever stayed in in the world are those African
Speaker 1: game lodges. But I think, you know, starting out that
Speaker 1: way and sort of feeling that kind of connection by
Speaker 1: literally sleeping on the ground was cool. Let me ask
Speaker 1: you about Africa because I think that's that's sort of
Speaker 1: a singular experience if wildlife speaks to you in that way,
Speaker 1: and both my wife and I have had sort of
Speaker 1: life changing, perspective changing experience as the first time you
Speaker 1: find yourself in the bush and lay your eyes on
Speaker 1: a specific animal or whatever gives you that powerful feeling.
Speaker 1: What was it for you that made you sort of
Speaker 1: fall in love with with the safari aspect of Africa,
Speaker 1: let's say that, Yeah, Africa is like it's hard to
Speaker 1: explain because like I've spent over two years of my
Speaker 1: life in Africa, you know, and all the trips I've done,
Speaker 1: and it just like gets inside you. Like Africa. I've
Speaker 1: been on seventy seven safaris, literally seventy seventh safaris at
Speaker 1: this point. In every single time, I just want more
Speaker 1: because even though it might be the same animals, it's
Speaker 1: always different at the seventies seven game drives or seventy
Speaker 1: seven trips, seventy seven game drives, game drives, but in
Speaker 1: every major park in Africa, and a lot of private
Speaker 1: ones too. Taking seventy seven different trips to Africa, I
Speaker 1: would wait, I might, I might be around there though
Speaker 1: in total I don't even know, but uh, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know it's you mentioned the first time, the first safari
Speaker 1: ever went on was in Kruger National Park and it
Speaker 1: was me and my friend Mike, and we did the
Speaker 1: camping thing because it was cheap. And this is like
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, I think it was or something,
Speaker 1: and we just got our own tent. It was this
Speaker 1: little piece of ship tent, right and uh mine got
Speaker 1: covered in like red ants or something like that, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh crap, man, I'm not sleeping in
Speaker 1: that ship. And so I go over to my friend's
Speaker 1: tent and I got dude, move over, I'm sleeping with you.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what are you talking about. I'm like,
Speaker 1: look at my tent. He's like, oh god, it must
Speaker 1: be bad if you want to sleep in this little
Speaker 1: tent with me. So that was my first safari experience.
Speaker 1: And as much as that sucked, as soon as I
Speaker 1: saw like my first rhinoceros, I was just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is Africa, you know, and it just
Speaker 1: blew me away. And you know, as I've evolved over
Speaker 1: the year, and I have continued to go back to
Speaker 1: Africa many times, uh you know, and I've stated it,
Speaker 1: like you said, some of the best sparty lodges in
Speaker 1: the world and and there is no better accommodation on
Speaker 1: Earth than some of these tops sfart lodges. And people
Speaker 1: are surprised when you say that. That's because they haven't
Speaker 1: seen it. And you know, just being in the bush
Speaker 1: and some of these tented camps and just amazing, like
Speaker 1: campus are just so so cool. And you have your
Speaker 1: own like little plunge pool and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're just there and then a hippo rolls by you
Speaker 1: at like nine o'clock at night as you're just having
Speaker 1: a cocktail. You know, you're like, holy cow, this is
Speaker 1: so cool. You get the question it's difficult to answer
Speaker 1: if somebody is not well traveled. They want that first experience,
Speaker 1: and they ask you where should I go? Where should
Speaker 1: I begin my my European exploration? Exploration for example, And
Speaker 1: get that question a lot. Where would you tell them
Speaker 1: to go? What would what? What is the what is
Speaker 1: the answer if they had to just pick one or
Speaker 1: two countries? Honestly, I think the way I did it
Speaker 1: was probably the best way possible, at least for me,
Speaker 1: like going to London, because it eliminates a lot of
Speaker 1: your fears. They speak English. Uh, it's definitely Europe, but
Speaker 1: it has a lot of the similarities of home. You
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I always say it's the perfect place to
Speaker 1: get your big toe wet in Europe and uh and
Speaker 1: really just in traveling and then from there after a
Speaker 1: week or so, and it's easy. From London, you can
Speaker 1: get anywhere, you know, you can take the train, you
Speaker 1: can take a boat, you can fly literally anywhere in
Speaker 1: Europe and it's just easy. And they make it easy London,
Speaker 1: so tourists friendly and and the rest of the UK.
Speaker 1: It's just wonderful, right, Or go over to Ireland, you know,
Speaker 1: it's very similar but different as well. But then going
Speaker 1: into France and just kind of experiencing something like that,
Speaker 1: or going down to Spain, going to Barcelona and just
Speaker 1: seeing the attitude down there and how how happy people
Speaker 1: are and how festive things are, and like how late
Speaker 1: people eat dinner. You know, it's just like you're like,
Speaker 1: you eat dinner at mit night. What you know. It's
Speaker 1: it's you come home at seven in the morning from
Speaker 1: the bar and you're like, wait a minute, hold on,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sleep all day now. But that's what the
Speaker 1: Spanish people do, you know. It's it's it's crazy, all right,
Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum, what countries and when someone
Speaker 1: brings up I want to go here, what do you think.
Speaker 1: You don't want to puncture their enthusiasm. You want them
Speaker 1: to have their own experience. But are there places where
Speaker 1: you go think of, think again, or reconsider. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I never I always try to be positive with that
Speaker 1: type of stuff because like, maybe I just didn't have
Speaker 1: the best experience, Because no matter where you go, someone's
Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh my god, it was my favorite
Speaker 1: place in the world. You're like, yeah, I thought it
Speaker 1: was okay, you know what I mean. But maybe they
Speaker 1: had a life changing experience that you didn't have, Like
Speaker 1: maybe you had bad weather. That's that's something that will
Speaker 1: ruin your trip, or you lost your luggage, you know whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: But in in terms of your question, I would say, uh,
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I think China is underwhelming, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, except for certain areas of it and the
Speaker 1: the English factor can be really hard there. But really
Speaker 1: that's you know, in terms of big tourist attractions, that's
Speaker 1: really the only one I think that people come away underwhelmed.
Speaker 1: And for me, I've been to Chinese so many times
Speaker 1: now I actually love it. And whenever I go, I
Speaker 1: just pick random cities because they have like a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty cities with over a million people. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I just picked random cities and go. Now, hey, you
Speaker 1: getting away from people. I think it's always been important
Speaker 1: to me. I know, you've been Antarctica. For someone that
Speaker 1: that hasn't been there, that really can't imagine going there,
Speaker 1: what was the feelings you step off, you take a boat,
Speaker 1: you step off onto the continent of Antarctica and you
Speaker 1: you experience it, and what what were you seeing, feeling, smelling.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to tell you that there's
Speaker 1: no better place in the world that you can visit
Speaker 1: than Antarctica. It's the coolest place in the world. And
Speaker 1: I'm just me and temperature wise, it is just amazinging
Speaker 1: to be there. And uh, I actually flew both times
Speaker 1: I was there because both times I went on different
Speaker 1: expeditions trying to reach the South Pole and doing climbing
Speaker 1: and visiting the Emperor Penguin colonies, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I spent about six weeks there total between
Speaker 1: the two trips something like that. And uh, the first
Speaker 1: year I was actually there with Prince Harry by the way,
Speaker 1: and uh, that was that. I could do a whole
Speaker 1: podcast on that trip. But um, we actually did not
Speaker 1: make it to the South Pole that particular trip, um,
Speaker 1: and had a little bit to do with him. But
Speaker 1: I'll get into that another time. But but being there
Speaker 1: on Antarctica, uh, you know, with the people that you're
Speaker 1: there with, because if you're on Antarctica and you flew there,
Speaker 1: you're an interesting person just by definition, and to talk
Speaker 1: to these people and some of these polar explorers are
Speaker 1: just some of the coolest people in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: and just the most interesting and and laid back. And again,
Speaker 1: like if you're there, just by definition, you're into cool
Speaker 1: things and you've probably done a lot of other cool
Speaker 1: things and been successful in your life because it's not cheap,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's not somewhere that everybody just wants to go.
Speaker 1: Obviously you could do it a lot cheaper and go
Speaker 1: by boat from Argentina or Chiley or New Zealand or Australia,
Speaker 1: but um, you don't get the full scope of being
Speaker 1: on Antarctica. Then you do like kind of camping out
Speaker 1: there and really experiencing it. And for me, the greatest
Speaker 1: moment of my life. And I really mean this was
Speaker 1: reaching the South Pole and uh, you know, getting further
Speaker 1: than Shackleton. Shackleton died trying to get there. Robert Falcon
Speaker 1: Scott died trying to reach the South Pole, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it was a hundred years later, and
Speaker 1: you know, technology and plans and stuff are a little
Speaker 1: bit different. But to be at a latitude line and
Speaker 1: to think where you are on the world, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like, holy shit, every single thing for me
Speaker 1: is up, you know, And this I felt the same
Speaker 1: way when I went to the North Pole, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is so cool, and everything on Earth is below
Speaker 1: me right now, and I'm you know, still one of
Speaker 1: a handful of people. I think it's like four or
Speaker 1: five people in history. You've been to every country in
Speaker 1: both poles, So that's pretty cool. When I tell you
Speaker 1: we made it by the skin of our teeth, that
Speaker 1: the last possible second, it was just it was just
Speaker 1: so much emotion that went into it. And again, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just like six weeks in my life I spent
Speaker 1: trying to do this, and uh, and to finally do
Speaker 1: it was just so cool and to stand at the
Speaker 1: geographic South Pole where so many people had tried and
Speaker 1: failed and and died, and it's just almost like a
Speaker 1: mythological place. It's like, you know, an ancient seven wonder
Speaker 1: of the world. So a few people have ever been there,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, there's a funny have a funny story. Actually,
Speaker 1: when I was at the South Pole, so they have
Speaker 1: South Pole Station, which is the US base essentially, and
Speaker 1: it's it's enclosed. So I wanted to get a passport
Speaker 1: stamp for me and my group of friends who I
Speaker 1: was down there with, and they wouldn't let us in.
Speaker 1: So when the Canadian um airline pipe, he went there
Speaker 1: and he knocked on the door and the Americans were like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna stamp the passport today. So he comes
Speaker 1: back and said, sorry, guys, they're not gonna do I
Speaker 1: go give me the fucking passports. So I take the
Speaker 1: nine passports, I go out there, bang on the door,
Speaker 1: and then I'm just like, listen, I'm not gonna go
Speaker 1: away here. I'm at the South Pole. You're gonna stamp
Speaker 1: the passport. And they're like, all right, come on, and
Speaker 1: you just do it yourself. It's over there. On the left.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, okay, how hard was that? Canadians come on,
Speaker 1: be assertive. It was important to get that official site.
Speaker 1: There's actually a passport stamp that says south Pole though.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, yeah, there's uh, there's yeah. I have to
Speaker 1: actually my passport and it's uh one of my most
Speaker 1: cherished Uh, it is my most cherished passport stamp without
Speaker 1: question that and pick here in island. I have to say,
Speaker 1: I know how you bounce around. I think for you
Speaker 1: even more than me, stillness is a challenge being still
Speaker 1: and and staying in one place. There are various reasons,
Speaker 1: various motivations for those kind of feelings for for a
Speaker 1: lot of us. Um, I lost my dad when I
Speaker 1: was young. I saw how precious time was. I saw
Speaker 1: how putting things off and and counting on years to
Speaker 1: do something was a bad idea. I know. For you
Speaker 1: working for cannifridz Gerald, uh, the trauma September eleven was
Speaker 1: extremely real and visceral and powerful and continues to be.
Speaker 1: How did that sort of change your perspectively on wanting
Speaker 1: to go everywhere and do everything he possibly could? Well,
Speaker 1: that was one of the seminal moments in my life
Speaker 1: for obvious reasons, but at the same time, it also
Speaker 1: you know, I saw the people who didn't make it,
Speaker 1: and like one of my best friends was like, I
Speaker 1: always say, he'll be twenty three forever, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing that anything could happen on any given Tuesday, Uh,
Speaker 1: it just motivated me to get out and do the
Speaker 1: things that I wanted to do and live my life
Speaker 1: the way I wanted to do it. Not that I
Speaker 1: didn't already have that, but that really just cemented it
Speaker 1: in my mind. And uh, I lost both my parents
Speaker 1: at a young age as well, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: so the combination of all those traumatic experiences really just
Speaker 1: made me want to live my life. And I have
Speaker 1: no regrets because you never know. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: in a short period of time, I'll be older than
Speaker 1: my mother was when she passed away, and that's a
Speaker 1: weird thing to think about. And uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that I do everything I want
Speaker 1: to do in my life because you never know, and
Speaker 1: hopefully I live a long life, but again, you never know.
Speaker 1: So that's been a huge motivating factor in my life.
Speaker 1: And not wasting time with things you want to do.
Speaker 1: I always say don't put off to until tomorrow what
Speaker 1: you can do today. And uh, I really tried to
Speaker 1: live my life that way, especially with regards to experience,
Speaker 1: because I think that is the essence of life. Lee
Speaker 1: is on Instagram and Twitter and has a website Lee
Speaker 1: Abbamonte dot com. He spells it A B B A
Speaker 1: M O N t E. On that site, he's got
Speaker 1: a travel blog all kinds of travel tips, and he
Speaker 1: writes this that what he has found in his travels
Speaker 1: is that people everywhere, at their core are basically good
Speaker 1: and decent and very much the same. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a powerful message. I have always found my travels
Speaker 1: to be perspective changing, so enriching. Took my first international
Speaker 1: flight to Greece, mind blowing, still one of my favorite
Speaker 1: places Africa. My first minute in Africa stepping off a
Speaker 1: plane onto the tarmac in Arusha, Tanzania on a very
Speaker 1: black night and looking up at seeing millions of stars
Speaker 1: overhead and smelling a camp fire in the distance. And
Speaker 1: the next night I was camping on the ground in
Speaker 1: the Serengetti, listening to lions roar in the distance and
Speaker 1: aena's munching on the bones at the edge of the
Speaker 1: campsite incredible. There's been so many other life altering experiences
Speaker 1: Nepal and a lot of places a lot closer to home,
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to get back out there. There's
Speaker 1: so many places I haven't been in, so many places
Speaker 1: that I want to return. We'll probably do another travel
Speaker 1: episode at some point. If you have any ideas or
Speaker 1: suggestions for topics, you can DM me on Instagram and
Speaker 1: appreciate it if you could leave some feedback by rating
Speaker 1: and reviewing and subscribing. As always, thanks to my consecutive
Speaker 1: producer and partner and travel Jennifer Dempster and my producer
Speaker 1: Jason white Hell. I'll talk to you soon.