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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. Our super producer, Max Williams is abroad traveling,

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Speaker 1: having adventures, and that means that we are once again

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Speaker 1: immensely fortunate to welcome our super guest producer, the Man,

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Speaker 1: the Myth, the Legend, the returning champ, Casey Pegro.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back. Guys, I'm loving doing this.

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Speaker 3: Hi love say thanks for having me back. Like we're

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Speaker 3: gonna edit this. Thank you, thanks for having us back. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: in the chat.

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Speaker 2: These episodes don't have any edits. We just we just

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Speaker 2: go straight to straight to the feed. Yeah, we're live

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Speaker 2: in studio.

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Speaker 4: Yeah you know, Okay, you essed, Casey pegram you just

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Speaker 4: but I think overall we don't have an insane amount

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Speaker 4: of edits. We're on the on the less editing side

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Speaker 4: in some podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I was actually I was looking at a recent episode

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Speaker 2: and I was like, you know what, there's less cuts

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Speaker 2: than there.

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Speaker 3: Used to be.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's what happens when you do five of these

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Speaker 4: things season pros every week. And actually, you know, well,

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Speaker 4: since we've been doing it in person, more often. There

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Speaker 4: are almost fewer edits when we're in person. A lot

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Speaker 4: of the editing stems from the lag and the weirdness

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Speaker 4: you have to get used to from doing things remotely,

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Speaker 4: which we are doing today in full disclosure. But we'll

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Speaker 4: be back to in person later this week. That's correct,

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Speaker 4: that's true. I am Ben, you are null, and today

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Speaker 4: we are. Today we're chopping it up. We solved a

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Speaker 4: lot of stuff off air, a lot of the world's problems,

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Speaker 4: because we're all about innovation here on Ridiculous History.

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Speaker 3: We're a solution oriented podcast, no question about it.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately for humans, throughout much of their history, they did

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Speaker 1: not feel the same way about innovation. So we are

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Speaker 1: exploring something similar to our ongoing series on inventors who

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Speaker 1: died by their own hand. Today we're exploring scientists who

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Speaker 1: figured something amazing out about the world and then we're

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Speaker 1: horrifically punished for doing so and potentially fell on their

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Speaker 1: own sword, which is, oh yeah, a.

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Speaker 4: Noble act in the face of complete embracing of disinformation

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Speaker 4: and science denial. You know, it's kind of funny that

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Speaker 4: the idea of innovation in the past, right, you almost

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Speaker 4: have to get into the mindset of like the medieval man,

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Speaker 4: you know, the medieval ruler, and it's like, what innovation.

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Speaker 4: God already did everything. We don't need no stake in innovation.

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Speaker 4: We got the Bible, we got you know, scripture. We're good, yes,

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Speaker 4: set for life.

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Speaker 1: It turns out class systems and socio religious structures were

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Speaker 1: a bit of a stumbling block or a speed bump

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people. Even some of the best

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Speaker 1: scientists in history won what we could call pyrrhic victories.

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Speaker 1: Want to give a shout out to our sources here.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Galileo to Turing spoiler the historical persecution

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Speaker 1: of scientists. The author there, Olivia Salon, said something that

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Speaker 1: I think stood out to all of us. She notes,

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Speaker 1: of course, Galileo was tried and convicted for publishing his

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Speaker 1: evidence that supported Copernicus's theory that the Earth revolves around

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Speaker 1: the sun. Because, to your point, nol when he published

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Speaker 1: this research, the Catholic Church went crazy.

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Speaker 3: They said, oh, no, no, no. The way we read

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Speaker 3: scripture says Earth is in the middle. Earth is the

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Speaker 3: main character.

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Speaker 1: And so Galileo was basically sentenced to house arrest for

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Speaker 1: the rest of his life, and they didn't kill him,

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Speaker 1: but they destroyed all his stuff.

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Speaker 3: Ah, that's a bummer.

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Speaker 4: That's almost worse, fade, worse than death, to have her

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Speaker 4: life's work just go up and smoke like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, Ben, you mentioned stumbling blocks, speed bumps.

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Speaker 4: I dare say this whole affair is a speed hump,

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Speaker 4: the dreaded speed hump.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen those? They're the same color as the road.

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Speaker 4: You can't see them on a shadowy kind of fall day,

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Speaker 4: and you hit them at full speed and you almost

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Speaker 4: launch yourself like a rocket man.

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Speaker 3: Those things are dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I get a little more intimidated, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: when they are garishly painted as though there's some sort

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Speaker 1: of dangerous warning sign. Sometimes you need it, especially in

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Speaker 1: small neighborhoods that are technically private property, because some hoa

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Speaker 1: person will go power mad and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: that thing is at a crazy like near ninety degree incline.

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Speaker 1: You know, they basically put a curb in the road.

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Speaker 1: Stop doing yourself, Stop doing that. Yeah, no, it's bad news.

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Speaker 4: We everyone's probably of the scientists persecuted.

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Speaker 3: We're going to mention today Galileo Galilei.

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Speaker 4: Banger of a name by the way, it's probably one

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Speaker 4: of the most familiar one that I was not as

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Speaker 4: familiar with.

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Speaker 3: And many of you out there, Oh, and we'll get

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Speaker 3: to Galileo as well.

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Speaker 4: We will, We definitely will. That was just sort of

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Speaker 4: like a little tease. Al Razi or razz Or al Raizi,

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Speaker 4: Abu Bakar Mohammed Eban Zakarayah al Razi, also known as

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Speaker 4: Rozz in Latin, was born in eight fifty four or

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Speaker 4: circa eight fifty four in what is now Iran and

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Speaker 4: was an alchemist and philosopher. You know what's funny, We

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Speaker 4: talk about alchemy and philosophy as sort of being science adjacent.

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Speaker 3: Right very much. This guy had both of them on lock.

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Speaker 1: Which was not uncommon, right because back then, if you

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Speaker 1: were an intellectual of any sort, you were considered to

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Speaker 1: have a few It's like in Dungeons and Dragons or

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Speaker 1: a role playing game where you can multi class. Like

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Speaker 1: you were naturally a philosopher, you would have specialities in

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Speaker 1: other more applied disciplines. And this guy, I believe, was

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Speaker 1: considered in his day the greatest doctor, the greatest doctor

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Speaker 1: in the Islamic world, which for that society meant the

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Speaker 1: actual greatest doctor ever because everybody else was considered you know,

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Speaker 1: savages and the idea. It's interesting because to that concept

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Speaker 1: of alchemy kind of being the predecessor of chemistry and

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Speaker 1: so on, this guy was an alchemist before he became

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Speaker 1: a doctor.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's right, But you know alchemy too.

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Speaker 4: It is something that now with the benefit of hindsight,

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Speaker 4: does come off as a bit snake oily, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: you couldn't really turn lead into gold, but there were

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Speaker 4: folks who could purport to do that, and there was

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Speaker 4: sort of a crossover of the supernatural and like almost

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Speaker 4: like witchcraft. But then there are parts of alchemy that

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Speaker 4: were kind of basic chemistry.

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Speaker 3: Kind of it's based around that, right.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people discovered made some great breakthroughs and

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Speaker 1: discoveries in the world of what we call chemistry today.

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Speaker 1: I think the best way to put it is a

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Speaker 1: lot of people went out looking to turn led to

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Speaker 1: gold or to find the philosopher's stoned and ended up

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Speaker 1: inventing pretty neat pesticides.

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Speaker 4: Sure he could cut on them, but to your point

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Speaker 4: that al Razzi did go on to become a true physician,

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Speaker 4: and he had a pretty inflated sense of himself, not

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe for good reason, but he you know,

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Speaker 4: in some of his writings that have been unearthed, he

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Speaker 4: often compared himself to folks like Socrates and Hippocrates. Socrates,

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Speaker 4: of course being the father, I guess for the godfather

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Speaker 4: of philosophy, Apocrates, you know, literally kind of inventing the

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Speaker 4: medical profession, or the very least the tenants of it,

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Speaker 4: you know, the Hippocratic oath being such an important thing

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Speaker 4: to do no harm, and all of that horm as well.

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Speaker 4: He said it back then, and al Razi wrote about

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Speaker 4: this stuff in two of his most significant works, one

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Speaker 4: known as the Katab al Mansouri, which he wrote for

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Speaker 4: the ruler of what was then called Rey in Persia

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Speaker 4: again now Iran, and the ruler's name was Montsour iban Ishak.

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Speaker 4: And this book was translated by Gerard of Cremona in

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Speaker 4: the twelfth century into Latin, and the Katab al Hawi

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Speaker 4: was what it was known as, became known more universally

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Speaker 4: as the Comprehensive Book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wikipedia in print the opinions of al Razi.

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Speaker 1: The Katab al Hawe or Comprehensive Book is definitely one

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Speaker 1: of the more popular the Katab al Montsori, despite being

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Speaker 1: a distinct book, is still considered a banger. And in

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Speaker 1: the comprehensive book in Katab Alahawi, we see that al

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Speaker 1: Razi surveyed all the medicine from all the world that

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Speaker 1: he knows about. So he looks at the learnings of

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Speaker 1: Greek physicians, Syrian physicians, early Arabic medicine, and then he

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Speaker 1: dives into the medical traditions of the Indian subcontinent. And

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Speaker 1: the whole time he's doing this, just imagine if one

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Speaker 1: guy was the only editor of Wikipedia. That's what this

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Speaker 1: book is like. Because he'll say, you know, the Syrians

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Speaker 1: or the Greeks do blah blah blah, blah blah, and

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Speaker 1: then in the margins or in the next paragraph he'll

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Speaker 1: add his and here's what I think, and this is

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Speaker 1: why this is good or bad. He's got a couple

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Speaker 1: agendas just spoiler if you're reading it. And then he

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Speaker 1: has a bunch of smaller things, shorter writings that we

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Speaker 1: will call treatises. One example that would be the Treatise

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Speaker 1: on the Smallpox and Measles that goes to Latin, to Greek,

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Speaker 1: to a lot of other languages. Because surprise, surprise, people

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Speaker 1: were worried about measles then as now. Thank you to

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Speaker 1: Britanica dot com. You can find all of this in

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Speaker 1: their biography of al Rossi.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 4: He was pretty varied in his in his studies and

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Speaker 4: in his methodologies, and he was probably, you know, pretty

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Speaker 4: ahead of his time. And as we know, that often

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Speaker 4: can rub certain individuals the wrong way, especially when you're

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Speaker 4: somebody that seems to again have a relatively inflated sense

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Speaker 4: of himself in terms of the way he carried himself

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Speaker 4: and wrote his opinions with a sense of finality and

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Speaker 4: authority that perhaps went counter to some spiritual leaders who

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Speaker 4: felt that they were the ones who should.

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Speaker 3: Be imbued with this level of you know, authority. Come

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Speaker 3: in and enter the chat.

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Speaker 4: A particular Muslim priest who I believe is unnamed in

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Speaker 4: in our historical accounts that we've we've looked into.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they pulled, uh, they pulled an exhibit on him.

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Speaker 1: They said, you like prescriptions, dog, I'll give you a prescription.

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Speaker 1: This Muslim priest, according to the story, ordered our boy

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Speaker 1: al Rossi to be beaten over the head with his

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Speaker 1: own manuscript.

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Speaker 3: Have a taste of your own medicine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and and not a not a just a get

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Speaker 1: out of here kids, not back on the head, no,

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Speaker 1: but apparently beaten repeatedly, so hard with his own manuscript

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Speaker 1: that it caused him to go blind, after which point

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Speaker 1: he was no longer a practicing doctor.

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Speaker 4: That will teach you that. That is a very sexy account,

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Speaker 4: that really gives.

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Speaker 3: You that martyr umami. You know. I mean again, he

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Speaker 3: didn't die.

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Speaker 4: I know you have to die to properly become a martyr,

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Speaker 4: but losing your eyes that's a sort of semi death,

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Speaker 4: you know, a small death of a sense at the

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Speaker 4: very least. But other accounts do indicate that he may

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Speaker 4: well have gone blind because of cataracts. I personally, I

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Speaker 4: don't know about you, bet In Casey, but I can't

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Speaker 4: picture a beating upside the head so bad that it

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Speaker 4: would make you go blind, but not just like kill you.

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Speaker 1: It would be possible, but you would be you would

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Speaker 1: probably be aiming for the eyes right, to damage the

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Speaker 1: optic of the gougeway.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's it's also I mean, there's so many

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Speaker 1: holes in this story because was he an inordinately prideful

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Speaker 1: person or was he just trying to get the word out.

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Speaker 1: Is he depicted as such because the power structure at

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Speaker 1: the time, Could you like him?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it was probably not

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Speaker 1: being beaten over the head with a manuscript, unless you

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Speaker 1: know he was carving these in stone at that point,

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Speaker 1: they're just hitting him with rocks. I don't know a

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Speaker 1: lot of things to think about, but what we do

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Speaker 1: know is that before this unfortunate blindness, this guy preserved

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Speaker 1: medical practices from around the world. And that's no small feat.

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Speaker 3: No, no, again again, Maybe I'm You're right, Ben.

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Speaker 4: It's easy to do when you get a whiff of

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Speaker 4: someone being a little big for their britches. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: do this guy think he is, you know, with his

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Speaker 4: philosophy and and alchemy and all of that stuff. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're right, the tone of it, the tenor of the

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Speaker 4: way he's portrayed, could well have a twist on it.

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Speaker 4: But also it's not out of the question or beyond

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Speaker 4: the realm of belief that someone like this could be

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Speaker 4: a bit of a pill.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Sure, we've all met surgeons who knows to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: did you know that surgeons are famous among the other

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Speaker 1: doctors for that kind of behavior.

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Speaker 3: Well, I just remember in the show Scrubs the surgeons.

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Speaker 4: Were sort of a particular class of ahole that was

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Speaker 4: sort of and also in any like you know, general hospital,

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Speaker 4: the surgeons are always kind of depicted as being like

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Speaker 4: the frat bros of the crew.

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Speaker 1: You know, you get to have you have to have

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Speaker 1: a certain perspective towards the existence of other human beings

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Speaker 1: to be able to dig inside them.

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Speaker 2: Just a classic line from Rushmore, these are are scrubs?

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Speaker 3: Oh are they are? They?

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Speaker 1: Apparently we see that this sort of persecution of scientists,

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Speaker 1: unless we sound in islamophobic, was by no means restricted

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Speaker 1: to the Islamic world, which for time, of course, was

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Speaker 1: the forefront of human innovation and learning. Right, There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of today's technological and scientific breakthroughs can be traced

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Speaker 1: directly back to the golden age of Islam in that regard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which I guess is why this story was a

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Speaker 4: little surprising, because I know, we certainly have instances of

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Speaker 4: you know, Muslim priests and leaders being very heavy handed,

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Speaker 4: you know, and iron fisted when it comes to keeping

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Speaker 4: folks in check in terms of.

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Speaker 3: Whether they follow their orders. Or belief systems or not.

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Speaker 4: But I guess I always do think of the Muslim

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Speaker 4: faith in this part of the world as being a

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Speaker 4: little more open to innovation and a little more open

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Speaker 4: to scientific discovery, much more so at least than like say,

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Speaker 4: the Catholic Church.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they wouldn't get that rap for like having, you know,

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Speaker 4: being such a innovative, you know people, if they were

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Speaker 4: shutting everything down left and right.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: In defense of the Catholics, we'll find that the Protestants

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Speaker 1: did similar things. Let's go to Michael Servitus. You may

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Speaker 1: recognize Michael Servatus if well I didn't for a while.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, this guy, Mike is a also a physician.

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Speaker 1: He's in Spain and he was born people think around

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Speaker 1: fifteen eleven in Aragon. And he wasn't just a physician,

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Speaker 1: you guys. He was also in his heart a religious reform.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, that's where he went wrong. Yeah, the meds. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he after around and found out. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So while he was in the entourage of Emperor Charles

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Speaker 1: the fifth, he published a pamphlet in fifteen thirty one.

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Speaker 1: It was an anti Trinitarian pamphlet. Now, a lot of

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Speaker 1: us probably fell asleep when we heard that. Yeah, where

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Speaker 1: you can see in the doc that all of us

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Speaker 1: are looking up anti trinitarian.

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Speaker 3: Sure, it's the idea.

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Speaker 1: It's rejecting the Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity, Father's Son,

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Speaker 1: Holy Ghost or I think they changed it the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, but that's like the main thing. How

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Speaker 3: are you going to reject that? Yeah, that was a biggiet.

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Speaker 1: So Protestants and Catholics are super mad about him doing this.

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Speaker 1: They're like, this guy doesn't get it, and they hound him,

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Speaker 1: they persecute him. Remember, these are theocracies such that you know,

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Speaker 1: legal action can be taken against you for your religious beliefs.

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Speaker 1: So our boy Mike high tails it to France and Noel.

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Speaker 1: You know, I love this one. He assumes a new name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, always fine, Michael de Villanov, which is a great

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Speaker 4: director as well. Was his name Casey? What's his first name? V?

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Speaker 4: Casey on the case Casey on the cow. What a

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Speaker 4: great opportunity for that. I always go to town when

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Speaker 4: pronouncing that name, Just it gives me the mouth feel

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Speaker 4: of it is a delight. I gotta ask, though, Ben,

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Speaker 4: we're we're gonna you know, we're getting we're getting to

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Speaker 4: the part where he's on the lamb. He's changed his name,

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Speaker 4: but I'm stuck on this anti trinitarian, Bet. I just

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Speaker 4: want to get a little clarity from you and what

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Speaker 4: you guys think, Like why throw that part out? Like,

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Speaker 4: of all the weird stuff in religion, why is that

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Speaker 4: the sticking point for this guy? He's like, all the

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Speaker 4: rest of it's cool, but this trinity, this Holy Trinity,

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Speaker 4: is bogus.

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Speaker 1: He said that he was practicing something called modylistic monarchism.

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Speaker 1: It's the idea that God is all one thing, and

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Speaker 1: that you are when you're saying it is three things,

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Speaker 1: you are somehow erroneous about the nature of Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 1: who is himself God and not a distinct, separate part.

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Speaker 1: It's anyway, that's that's the answer for the obscure religious

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Speaker 1: history episode of Jeopardy that Ken Jennings refuses to do

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Speaker 1: despite my letters.

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Speaker 3: I think that was helpful, Ben.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate that because it's you know again, it's like

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Speaker 4: I always find it funny when people were religious reformers,

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Speaker 4: they get hung up on one thing, and you're like,

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Speaker 4: that's the thing you get hung up on, Like it's

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Speaker 4: just that there's so many other things. Oh.

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Speaker 3: He was also against baptizing infants.

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Speaker 4: Well, now that I can agree with honestly, Like, even

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Speaker 4: from an outside perspective who's not a religious person, it does.

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Speaker 3: Feel like removing the choice. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In Methodism, you know where where I grew up in,

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Speaker 4: you don't do that. You confirm it's a choice. You

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Speaker 4: know that the kids able, obviously with a lot of

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Speaker 4: prodding from their parents probably and indoctrination from the church.

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Speaker 4: But to baptize an infant does feel a little bit

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Speaker 4: like without consent kind of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's removing the choice. So

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Speaker 1: I got a juicy quote for you guys when he.

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Speaker 3: Was asked about this.

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Speaker 1: The term is pato baptism. Yeah, baptism of infants uncool?

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Speaker 1: Mike said the following quote it he's an invention of

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Speaker 1: the devil, an infernal falsity for the destruction of all Christianity.

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Speaker 1: So that's how he wrote about stuff. You can see

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Speaker 1: why the Catholics and Protestants might think he's going hard

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Speaker 1: in the paint there.

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Speaker 3: What came we into this wilderness to find? I was

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Speaker 3: about to watch the Witch again?

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Speaker 4: This is the way that guy the polemicism or if that's

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Speaker 4: the word of that guy, that character, you know, you

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Speaker 4: could see why the church leaders cast him, he and

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Speaker 4: his family out because he was just really really going

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Speaker 4: at it hard.

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Speaker 1: I love how they never explain in The Witch of

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Speaker 1: the Witch, which is just one of the most phenomenal

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Speaker 1: horror films that came out recently. I love how they

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Speaker 1: never explained what their nocturnal disagreement was. You know, they

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Speaker 1: just know that he was too strict. He was he

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Speaker 1: was too hardcore.

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Speaker 2: It was like a settlement of the hardcore. And he

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Speaker 2: has even too hardcore.

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Speaker 3: For this, that's right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think you could sort of glean some

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Speaker 4: of what his stuff was in that speech that he

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Speaker 4: makes at the beginning when he's sort of like denouncing

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Speaker 4: the whatever, the religious leaders. But you're right, Ben, it

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Speaker 4: doesn't it doesn't necessarily spelled out. What is spelled out, though,

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Speaker 4: is what our guy did. Michael Servitus when he moved

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Speaker 4: to France and changed his name to Michelle de Villeneux,

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Speaker 4: he studied medicine in Paris, specifically at the University of

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Speaker 4: Paris in fifteen thirty six, and then he went into

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Speaker 4: his own medical practice where he made some startling discoveries

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Speaker 4: what I would consider again, not like a student of

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Speaker 4: medical history per se, but pretty early some of the

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Speaker 4: stuff that I would think of as more relatively you know,

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Speaker 4: modern discoveries, not modern, but like things that would require

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Speaker 4: a bit more no how and technology to really get

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Speaker 4: into the nuts and bolts of the idea of pulmonary circulation.

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Speaker 4: You know, what direction does the blood circulate? Does the

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Speaker 4: blood flow from the body in the body, rather that

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Speaker 4: it goes from the heart to the lungs and then

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Speaker 4: back to the heart.

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Speaker 3: This was a huge discovery, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this was huge because it disproved some things that

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Speaker 1: ancient Greek physicians were wrong about, and people just sort

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Speaker 1: of said, well, the Greeks are ancient and they were

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Speaker 1: really smart, so they're probably right about the blood. The

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Speaker 1: understanding of the circulatory system would immediately start saving lives, right,

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Speaker 1: and later other scientists and physicians would add on to

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Speaker 1: these discoveries. But yeah, I think you're right, Nol. It's

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Speaker 1: difficult to properly articulate how big Mike's innovations were. And

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Speaker 1: around the same time, Servatus gets into a conversation that

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Speaker 1: I don't want to quite call a flame war with

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Speaker 1: a guy in Geneva named John Calvin, and as their

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Speaker 1: correspondence continues, they get more and more beefed up with

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Speaker 1: each other, and Servitus says, I not only denounced the Trinity,

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Speaker 1: but I also think your doctrine of determinism or predestination

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Speaker 1: is just for the streets. It's absolute trash. This is

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Speaker 1: John Calvin of Calvinism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, this is a big, big performer in

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Speaker 4: his own right, of course, and that is the kind

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Speaker 4: of the ten or at least at the center of

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Speaker 4: what his particular twist on Christianity was this idea that

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Speaker 4: God has laid out a plan for every action, reaction,

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Speaker 4: and whatever that will ever take place in the known

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Speaker 4: universe amongst his creations.

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Speaker 3: You were born, saved or damned. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 4: But even even like your path, right, your your all

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Speaker 4: the choices you make are not your choices to make.

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Speaker 4: So this is a big one because it really removes

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Speaker 4: the idea of free will from the from the proceedings.

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Speaker 4: And I could see how Servitus would this would be

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Speaker 4: the kind of thing that that kind of it's on

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Speaker 4: brand for him to be against this.

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Speaker 1: Any doctor, right, like the idea of medicine is that

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Speaker 1: through intervention and through science and practice technique, one can

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Speaker 1: save people from death. You know, So that's obviously John

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Speaker 1: Calvin's not vibing with that unless you also that it's

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Speaker 1: God's plan for you to Uh.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Drake is a Calvinist, you know from

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Speaker 1: that song God's Plan? Is that about Josh Calvin?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but I like that.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what that's about, the part about how

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Speaker 4: he only likes his bed.

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Speaker 1: And you know why that Sorry, Yeah, she asked me

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Speaker 1: for love you I told him only partly. I only

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Speaker 1: love my bed and my mom. I'm sorry. Uh my bed,

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Speaker 1: I think is the name of his kid to their

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Speaker 1: levels to it.

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Speaker 4: I also has he is notoriously has one of the

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Speaker 4: most expensive beds ever made serious. It's like it's like

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Speaker 4: covered in like black fur and it's it's insane. I

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Speaker 4: think it was like literally a three million dollar bed

437
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 4: or something along those listenes.

438
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: That's so unnecessarily like he Drake showed up in our

439
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: I think it was Drake showed up in our episode

440
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: on uh sneakers and logo origins because I believe he

441
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: owns the most expensive pair of pikes, but they're unwearable

442
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: because they're made of gold and precious medals.

443
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: Oh wow, Yeah, I over reestimated a little bit. Four

444
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 4: hundred grand for too much bed.

445
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 3: Still too much.

446
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 4: It's a really cool lookod mattress I got spring alone

447
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 4: is pretty dope. It looks like a like an old

448
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 4: like chest or like a suitcase or.

449
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: Something brought out my Larry David And like four hundred

450
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: grand for a bed too much, too much, too much,

451
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty maximum.

452
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do it.

453
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 4: Also, they just throw mattresses at us, something that comes

454
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: along with being in podcasting. They're always just sending you

455
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 4: mattresses without your consent. Yeah, or like swimming and mattresses.

456
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: But speaking of swimming and stuff, this guy, Mike Servitus,

457
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: he is now a fish in water with this polemical

458
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: religious opinions.

459
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 4: Did he sort of out himself? I guess a little bit,

460
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 4: because he already had to move and change his name.

461
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 4: Now he's getting beefed up again with this Calvin fellow

462
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 4: for a lot of the same. Like, you know, it's

463
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: almost like he should have left well enough alone, like

464
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 4: stick to the medicine.

465
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 3: Stuff. He's making innovations leaps and bounds here.

466
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 4: But instead he's got to start running his mouth about

467
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 4: pre nature whatever.

468
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: I get it. You have, you have, you have feelings.

469
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 4: In fifteen fifty three, he's working in what I think

470
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 4: is pronounced Van Orvin. It looks like Vienna, but it's

471
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 4: not quite. It's a southeastern France. Yeah, maybe we'll get

472
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 4: a little casey on the case here. I would guess Vien,

473
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: case on the case, casey on the case Vienne. And yeah,

474
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 4: so he's hanging out there. He publishes anonymously, you know,

475
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 4: to his I guess credit for at least in terms

476
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 4: of like his reading of the room, a religious tract

477
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 4: called the Restitution of Christianity. Only I can restore Christianity,

478
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 4: former Christianity.

479
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: He's doing the chest compressions.

480
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 4: Another big, big dig on Trinitarianism. He hates that he

481
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 4: doesn't like it one bit. And the book has sections

482
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 4: in which he reveals he somehow is weaving in these

483
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: medical discoveries as well, which I think is interesting. Again,

484
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 4: not a lot of separation of church and state going

485
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: on here.

486
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of like Dave Chappelle, where he will he

487
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: will make some really brilliant good points or awesome jokes,

488
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: and then he'll be like, and the next fifteen minutes

489
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: of me saying this thing, And that's what this book

490
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: is kind of like. And I love the you know,

491
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if we mentioned it yet, but of

492
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: course it makes sense that religion and science would coexist

493
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: because religion was kind of a technology as well, right,

494
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: it was the science. So it was like in the

495
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: the minds of people at this time, they weren't as

496
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: aware of what we acknowledge as the sometimes conflicting goals

497
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: of science and religion. They thought there were two equal

498
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: ways of understanding the world that were mutually exclusive.

499
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 4: That's right, and it's all I've always found it interesting too,

500
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 4: Like throughout my religious upbringing, I've always known some very

501
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 4: very smart people who are devoutly religious and they find

502
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 4: a way to whatever that way might be. It's not

503
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 4: for me to say to allow those things to coexist,

504
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 4: you know, but there was this time where that crossover

505
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: just wasn't possible, you know, at least in the minds

506
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: of those in power. But so it was very innovative

507
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: and very forward thinking for someone like Saravitis to be

508
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 4: able to do that to be able to like occupy

509
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 4: this place of science and religion, have the two things

510
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: kind of commingle rather than like cancel each other out.

511
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 4: That that always really fascinates me, and I think it's,

512
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: you know, a really interesting thing to consider.

513
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Mike had to be aware of this, do you guys

514
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: like how I'm just calling him Mike like out? Yeah,

515
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: So Mike was telling us all though, just putting that

516
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: out there.

517
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: He's got you.

518
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: Know, he's got big Reddit energy, right, He's got that

519
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: actually ara about him. But anyway, he writes this book,

520
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: and he had to know or this tract I should

521
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: say this treatise, it's shorter than a book. He had

522
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: to be aware of these conflicts that you and I

523
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: are talking about, because he did publish this anonymously, and

524
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: he clearly was publishing this as a response or a

525
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: disc track toward John Calvin's earlier book, The Institution or

526
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: Institutes of Christianity, and because you know, being literate was

527
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: a bit of rarefied air at this time, and because

528
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: these people were talking about the same quite specific subjects.

529
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: He gets identified, he gets docked, he gets outed. A

530
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: friend of Calvin's says, huh, I'm familiar with the way

531
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: this guy writes Johnny C. This guy, Mike Servitus is

532
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: the one who wrote this terrible thing. And then he

533
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: goes to Yeah, then he goes to the authorities and snitches.

534
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: They arrest and they try him for a heresy and

535
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: they sentenced him to what nol like, Fine, maybe he's got.

536
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: A little rap on the knuckles or the war.

537
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Now a different kind of wood involved in

538
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: this prospect. Burn at the stake is what they Yeah,

539
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 4: the big one, the one for witches and the like,

540
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 4: you know, vessels of the devil, the infernal powers. You know,

541
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: this is not this is not looking good for our

542
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: boy Mike, thankfully though, and I don't I'd love to

543
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 4: hear some more details on what this rollicking escape scene

544
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: must have felt like.

545
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: But he was able to get out of there, he was,

546
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: he escaped, he high tailed it yet again. This guy

547
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: is now an international fugitive. So he goes to Naples

548
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: and no one is sure why the following things happened.

549
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: Even the historians working with the primary source aren't sure

550
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: exactly how this went down. But from what we understand,

551
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: with a price on his head, under the threat of death,

552
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: Mike Servatus decides to go through Geneva on his travels

553
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: to Italy, where John Calvin is doing a sermon and

554
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: old boy Mike sneaks in. Who knows again, big redded energy.

555
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: I picture him like wearing a hood in the back

556
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: and he's just waiting for John Calvin to say something

557
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: about the Holy Trinity so he can like pop his

558
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: hood off, start with a big actually or whatever. Anyway,

559
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: he gets recognized at this sermon that he never should

560
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: have attended, and he is arrested by the authorities. He

561
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: is thrown into prison, and this time he has tried

562
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: for heresy in a Protestant court, and noel, given that

563
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: the Protestant saw the Catholics as sort of backwards and

564
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: to authoritarian, surely the Protestant court had had a different

565
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: sentence for our boy Mike.

566
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: Nope, oh no, Now, in fact, they even doubled down man.

567
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 4: They condemned him to death by burning at the stake

568
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 4: and used his books for the fire. Evil that's like,

569
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you know what was it? Galilea just had

570
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 4: his books destroyed and was put under house arrest. This

571
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 4: guy was burned with his own books. I was looking up.

572
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 4: I was trying to find some details about Servitists' previous

573
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: skirting of the law escape of death death, and I

574
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: couldn't find any details about that. But apparently even though

575
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: Calvin did essentially turn the guy in and had him,

576
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 4: you know, condemned to death for heresy, he fell on

577
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 4: the mercy of the court or the judges and asked

578
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 4: that Servetus be killed by the sword instead of by burning,

579
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: but he was denied, so he was trying to exercise

580
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: a little bit of restraint there. Pretty interesting stuff, especially

581
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 4: considering that, like, this is the guy who's responsible for

582
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 4: the reform kind of church views that Servitus is going

583
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 4: against directly, and this guy is like, I'm gonna have

584
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 4: you dealt with sir.

585
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all catches up with him eventually.

586
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird to think that a court, a religious

587
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: court especially, will be sitting around and going what is

588
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: the most christ Like thing to do in this situation?

589
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: But the guy who has harmed nobody, has saved some lives,

590
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: but does disagree with us about our religious fan fiction,

591
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: So they decided the most christ like thing to do

592
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: would be to burn him alive. On October twenty seventh,

593
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: fifteen fifty three. As a result, the book that he wrote,

594
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: his religious screed with the discovery of pulmonary circulation, it

595
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: never got widely circulated, and people didn't know about this

596
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: discovery until many years later, centuries later. In fact, when

597
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: the book was reprinted in seventeen ninety, someone said, oh

598
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: wait a minute, heart to lungs and so on and

599
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: so forth. That makes sense. So we don't know how,

600
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want a soapbox or tied to

601
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: a stake here too much. But it makes you wonder

602
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: how many people actually died as a result of that

603
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: death sentence and the suppression of that research over those centuries.

604
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: The knowledge of pulmonary circulation could have saved many lives.

605
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: So how many folks did they condemned to death when

606
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: they burned that one guy alive?

607
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 3: We're fun at parties.

608
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: Let's try this one out for our next subject on

609
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: this episode on famous scientists that had their hats handed

610
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 4: to them when they, you know, wouldn't back down on

611
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: their scientific discoveries and or believes Gerhardt Domock, I think

612
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 4: that's a d O M A G K. I Also,

613
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 4: when I look at it, I immediately read it as

614
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 4: Gerhart do magic.

615
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: I when I look at it, it reminds me of

616
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: men use at a Turkish restaurant and I want to

617
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: order a domok, you know, like I'll get the domoch

618
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: side of you know, and and it, you know, screw

619
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: me up with that hot sauce fan. Anyway, Dolma Dolma

620
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: is the grape believe, the rice covered in grape leaves.

621
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: That's there's good, It's it's a it's a weird egg

622
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: roll take for uh sure. So what about this guy?

623
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 1: What about Let's call him.

624
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 4: Gerard Gerhart okay, Gerharts, yes, Gerharts, Yes, yes, he was

625
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 4: born in Germany, in Lagou He's the son of a teacher.

626
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: We've got some great sources from a biography from the

627
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: Science History Institute, and they write this following little blur.

628
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 4: But I think it's just good to do a quote outright.

629
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: Denmock decided early in life to become a physician. His

630
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 4: medical studies at the University of Kiel were interrupted by

631
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 4: his service as a grenadier and medical corpsman corpsmen perhaps

632
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 4: in World War One. He completed his medical degree in

633
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty one and then began an academic career. Pursuing

634
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 4: research and pathology. He adopted a dynamic approach to pathology,

635
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 4: incorporating physiology and chemistry and his work.

636
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: And this is important, Okay, no folly. As we know

637
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: at this point, religion and science are increasingly seen as

638
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: separate and not necessarily oppositional. This guy wins the Nobel Prize.

639
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: I am really excited about Nobel Prizes. I'm just going

640
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 1: to spoil that. You need to know that he's good

641
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: at what he does totally, and other people realize that

642
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: there's a diamond in the rough here. In nineteen twenty seven,

643
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 1: he gets recruited from the University of Munster by the

644
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical arm of a German conglomerate named ig Farbin Industry,

645
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: which is made up of a bevy of other German companies.

646
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: The Bear Company at the time they specialized and dies

647
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: and Farbin his worth dies and other fine chemicals. So

648
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: this happens all the time. Pharmaceutical companies recruit from your

649
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: favorite universities, places like Georgia Tech for instance, where I

650
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: went to school for a time, and not for pharmaceutical stuff,

651
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: if you're listening, dad, So in this setting, he loves this.

652
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: He loves being hooked up with big Pharma because they

653
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: give him a lot of resources, tools and agencies to

654
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: pursue his research. He decides he's going to spend the

655
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: rest of his career there. Of course, as we know,

656
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: after World War Two, I G. Farbin is broken up

657
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: and the specific division that Gerhard worked for.

658
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: Becomes the Bear Company once again.

659
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 4: And that's Bear, of course, like aspirin and stuff, right,

660
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: like the big, big industry over there in Germany. I

661
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 4: actually did not realize until recently. I think, I think

662
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 4: it there. They've got a lot of presents in Berlin,

663
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 4: They've got a lot of presence, and yeah, I think

664
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 4: that's when I noticed, like.

665
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that's this is the beer in question.

666
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 4: So Domac again he gets recruited to start this kind

667
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 4: of special laboratory, uh for pharmaceutical innovations, and he's given

668
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: well maybe not given, but he's put in the company

669
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 4: of two very well regarded chemists won by the name

670
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: of Fritz Meisch I believe, or mesh And and Joseph Klaer,

671
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: and they all banned together. They Wonder twins, it up,

672
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: or maybe that's there were only two Wonder Twins, so

673
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 4: this would be more of a Power Rangers kind of

674
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 4: situation under triplets, but the syllable don't work for dealing

675
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 4: with odd numbers, right. But they are combining their powers

676
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 4: of science to test compounds that are connected with synthetic DIES.

677
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 4: And again this does, doesn't this ben kind of seem

678
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 4: like that sort of thing where you're in one industry

679
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: and then you realize there's crossover into another. So we've

680
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: got this synthetic DIES and we're realizing there actually might

681
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: be elements in these compounds, in these that could be

682
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 4: helpful fighting disease.

683
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 3: We can treat.

684
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: Something with this technology that we already have, right, that

685
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: we were using for a different purpose, similar to viagra,

686
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: that's the original purposes. The original purpose of viagra, or

687
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 1: that's the name brand for the compound was to treat

688
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: high blood pressure and chest pain due to heart disease.

689
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 4: So the two messens was a side effect and the patients,

690
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 4: the patients just kept reporting that they were feeling great.

691
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, after we had a very.

692
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: Us bulge, and then that became the feature, not the

693
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 4: bug exactly.

694
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: And so this happens all the time in science. One

695
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: of these scientists, our buddy Fritz, had already synthesized something

696
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: called atabrine, which was a successful substitute for the anti

697
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: malarial substance quinine. It's it's something they were pulling from trees,

698
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: and it's not super great for you all the time.

699
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: I think it's been used in drinks. I can't remember.

700
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 3: Tonic water.

701
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, Quinine is definitely the active ingredient, and tonic water

702
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: that makes it taste so despicable, But somehow when you

703
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 4: mix it with like gin, it kind of cuts the bitterness.

704
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 4: It's a weird thing, you know.

705
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: I think I'm sensitive to it or something, because the

706
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: side effects of that stuff include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, It

707
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: can affect your hearing if you drink too much of it,

708
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: which is weird anyway. So there are advantages to having

709
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: a substitute for this is the is the main takeaway,

710
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: and finding substitutes for natural treatments for bacterial diseases was

711
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: a huge priority for the team, not because it would

712
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: make the world a better place, but because they could

713
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: make a lot of money with it.

714
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 4: Oh, of course, I mean that's the number one priority

715
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: of any Conglomo Corporation situation. So in nineteen thirty two,

716
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 4: Domach did make this discovery, as you mentioned, the one

717
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 4: that earned him that Nobel prize whoop whoop in physiology

718
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 4: or medicine. I love that it's an ore like there'd

719
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 4: be one for each perhaps, or there'd be an an there.

720
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 4: But that was in nineteen thirty nine, and that was

721
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 4: because this red dye material that he was experimenting with

722
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 4: was called, by the way, prontosal rubrum. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,

723
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 4: that's the stuff. He spearheaded research. It's involving laboratory animals,

724
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 4: specifically mice and rabbits that would demonstrate that injecting this

725
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: substance would prevent them from succumbing to lethal doses of

726
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 4: staphylococcy uh and uh hemolytic streptococci, which were as we know,

727
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 4: like that staphalacoca. I believe is what would be considered

728
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 4: a staff infection, right like in a hospital where when

729
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: when you're you know, you can you can have a

730
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 4: injury or a wound that if it's uh, if it

731
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 4: gets you know, dirty or whatever, it can it can

732
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 4: cause a really really bad bout of this.

733
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: I believe this would be considered a bacteria. Yeah, can

734
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: bacteria that can cause pus formation. It's uh.

735
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: It can also, like you said, it can make skin infections,

736
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: bone infections, can lead to pneumonia. It's nasty stuff. So

737
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool to say, oh, look this, this

738
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: thing that we were using to turn fabric red is

739
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: going to save people's lives. And he found this by

740
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: testing mice and he said, Okay, it's very effective in mice,

741
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: but will it work in humans? I don't know. And

742
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: around the time he's asking himself that his own daughter

743
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: becomes incredibly ill with a streptococcal infection on a twist,

744
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: and in desperation, he gives her a dose of prontosal.

745
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: She recovers completely, and he says, I'm not gonna mention

746
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: this for a while. I don't want people to know

747
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: that I thought my kid was going to die and

748
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: I threw all medical ethics and methodologies out the window.

749
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: But in nineteen thirty five he does mention that he

750
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: dosed his daughter with prontosal when other clinicians test the

751
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: new drug on human patients. And during the years to come,

752
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: there was a lot of work done in countries around

753
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: the world on this not just this substance, but this

754
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: new class of antibacterial compounds, and as a result, now

755
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: thousands of derivatives of sulfonalamide have been produced and tested

756
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: for their anti bacterial properties. Pron tosal is a derivative

757
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: of sulfonylimides.

758
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 3: You know. It's interesting too.

759
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, there were certainly I mean, like

760
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 4: the Nobel Board, you know, and all of that, these

761
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 4: kind of committees that decide who to give these awards to,

762
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 4: but also medical bodies, you know, hospitals and things like that,

763
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 4: prestigious universities that would have overseen regulations I guess surrounding

764
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: things like human testing, but it certainly wouldn't be at

765
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 4: the same level of rigor and oversight that we have today. So,

766
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 4: you know, in and now, seeing that he had done this,

767
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 4: while it would be considered controversial, it wasn't like it

768
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 4: was going to be enough to like shut him down

769
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 4: or get him like canceled, you know by the authorities.

770
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, how do we get this far without

771
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: using the modern parlance canceled. Here's how he gets canceled though,

772
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: because folks, we're telling you an inspiring story. But let's

773
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: not forget the theme of today's episode. Scientists who are

774
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: persecuted here's what happens to our boy. So everybody agrees

775
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: he's onto something. He's done something really smart. However, he

776
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: runs a foul of the power structure of the day.

777
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: This time it's not a church, it's the Nazi Party

778
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: and German governance. Because the Nobel Committee was already beefed

779
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: up with Germany, they gave the nineteen thirty five Nobel

780
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: Peace Prize to a guide named Karl von Ossietsky, an

781
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: outspoken German pass So Germany and the Nazi Party super

782
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: mad about that. They're like, no, don't support pacifists. We've

783
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: got to get out, We've got to get our what Liebenstrom.

784
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we are warifists. That's definitely a word. No

785
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 4: pacifism for us please, nor for any German citizen. Because

786
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 4: of this beef with the Nobel Committee, German citizens were

787
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 4: prohibited from ever accepting a Nobel prize, and after Domach

788
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 4: did officially accept his, the Gestapo came for him whoops,

789
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 4: and forced under god knows what circumstances him to send

790
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,720
Speaker 4: a letter rejecting the prize.

791
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: Which is ridiculous. He was eventually able to receive his

792
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: prize in nineteen forty seven. Decade later prize right after

793
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: the end of World War Two, where you know, a

794
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: couple things happened. He by the time he got it,

795
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: the Nobel Committee had already redistributed the prize money, so

796
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: he just got the metal, which is still I would

797
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: say at that point awesome because you're still recognized as

798
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: one of the world's best scientists. And I think that's

799
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: just really cool. But it's also pretty sad. And for

800
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: a long time, these drugs, which we could call soulfa drugs,

801
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: were used to treat all sorts of conditions gon rhea,

802
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: blood poisoning, gas warfare, meningitis, who name it. But then

803
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: penicillin came out during World War two, right.

804
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 4: It made me think, Ben, you know, this idea of

805
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 4: dies or whatever restretching to die, wasn't iodine for a

806
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 4: long time kind of like largely or primarily used as

807
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: a dye or as a coloration. I think red number three,

808
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 4: or the very least that iodine goes into the production

809
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 4: of red number three. So again I'm not like a

810
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 4: super science y minded guy, but the idea of dies

811
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 4: being of use in other ways I think is really

812
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 4: really interesting to me, and it would seem that that's

813
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 4: the case I had dined. Of course, is something you

814
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 4: know if you're infected. I watched the movie Outbreak the

815
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 4: other day. I distinctly remember a part where the suit

816
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 4: gets ripped when they're in the containment zone.

817
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 3: Immediately douses this cut with iodine.

818
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: And iodine is a very I dine pills, you know

819
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 4: in situations of nuclear fallout things like that. It's like,

820
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 4: you know, one of a very old substance that has

821
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 4: been very useful for a lot of things for a

822
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 4: long time.

823
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 3: And speaking of.

824
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: A long time, we realized that we were we were

825
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: running a little long.

826
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: With this episode.

827
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: We haven't gotten to all the scientists, but we want

828
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: to end on our our boy here, the Nobel winning

829
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: die King of Germany, Domach because he has a bit

830
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: of a happy ending. Yes, he was stiffed for the

831
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:56,959
Speaker 1: Nobel prize, he also paved the way to a better

832
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: world with his research. Right after the arrival of Pennasula,

833
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: he starts to work on an anti tubercular drug to

834
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: replace streptomycin, which has already become increasingly ineffective, and his

835
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: work and his team's work later lead to multiple discoveries

836
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: in these and related fields he has not burned at

837
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: the stake.

838
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: He gets a.

839
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: Ton of accolades, all well deserved, honorary doctorates from you

840
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: name the university, and then.

841
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 4: The night of the Order of Merit in nineteen fifteen

842
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 4: zero Japanese.

843
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 3: Order of Merit of the Rising Sun.

844
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 4: Oh wow, Grand Cross of the Civil Order of Health

845
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 4: of Spain. Sorry, are just really fancy.

846
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 3: There's a huge paragraph of them.

847
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: And he dies on April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four,

848
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: but he is recognized for his Nobel Prize NOL. We

849
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: had talked off air, we are going to probably return

850
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more in the future about

851
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: Alan Turing, about Galileo and a few more scientists. But

852
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 1: I think here we can we can call it a day.

853
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: We've we've established a pretty clear pattern, have we not.

854
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Turning may even be worth his own episode. There's

855
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 4: a lot to talk about with them.

856
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think Tony galilethematics, Yeah, yeah, maybe so, Yeah,

857
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: for sure, they definitely are.

858
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, in a funny way, Turing is almost

859
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: feels to me like.

860
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 4: A modern Galileo in some ways in terms of the

861
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 4: level of innovation that his research produced. But yeah, man,

862
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 4: Thank you, Casey, thanks for hanging with us again for

863
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 4: this uh, for this extended cut.

864
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back. Yeah it's funny.

865
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: Hey, Casey, thank you for listening to my uh, thank

866
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: you for listening to my cover wrap saw.

867
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 3: Just for you this morning. It was the delight and thanks.

868
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 3: I think I was a little more delighted than you,

869
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 3: old friend. But uh, and.

870
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: Thanks of course to our super producer on the road,

871
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, also pinch hitting his research associate for

872
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: today's episode. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quizter, was

873
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: talking to him over the weekend.

874
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 3: We might end up at def Con. I don't know.

875
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 3: In case you guys want to go, do you want

876
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 3: to go to deaf Con? I don't know what that is.

877
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: Def Con is a hacker convention held in Las Vegas.

878
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 4: Okay, well, I am going to Las Vegas again in

879
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 4: May for.

880
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: A glass convention with my girlfriend. But I did have

881
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: a good time.

882
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 4: I've been practicing my blackjack on the app, so I

883
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 4: think I'm trying to learn basic strategy.

884
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I'm not gonna go quite that far.

885
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 4: But I have discovered in watching some videos that if

886
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 4: you just memorize the very least basic strategy and play

887
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 4: kind of conservatively over a little bit longer time period

888
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 4: with a good bit of starting seed money, you're probably

889
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 4: gonna end up up, like you know, at least a

890
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 4: couple hundred bucks and just don't win a couple big hands.

891
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden raise your bet to like

892
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 4: everything you got right. You know, slow and steady wins

893
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 4: the race. And that's what I'm learning.

894
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 3: With these with these apps, use a different name. Yeah,

895
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 3: it's a tradition. Now it's our little thing.

896
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: Uh. And then we also want to think, of course,

897
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 1: Chris rossiotis Eve's Jeffcoats here in Spirits Gables. Yay, check

898
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: out this day in history class. Thank you very much

899
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: to all the scientists who helped make this podcast possible

900
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: in one way or another, primarily by you know, allowing

901
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: our ancestors to stay alive.

902
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time, folks.

903
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

904
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.