1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. All right, welcome back to Counterpoints. So 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: we put a one up here. The global elites Emily 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: have all gathered in Davos. Shouldn't we be broadcasting from there? 12 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: You think I was going to pretend that we were here. 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: We brought this up or it's a green screen. We're 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: here at Davos. We just got eggs with Klaus Schwab. 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: It's not the same this year without all the Russian 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: oligarchs throwing their parties off the off to the side, 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: because they really did throw the ragers, right, Really, have 18 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: you been to Davos. I've never been to Davos, but 19 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: that was always the word word on the street back 20 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: when I was at the Huffington post. My old boss 21 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Arianna obviously was a celeb at Davos. I was going 22 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: to say, that's absolutely love Davos. Yeah, And when I 23 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: was there, it was Davos was still on the edge 24 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: of like having some cred with like hipsters, because like 25 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: people like the tech hipsters, like this was there's there 26 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: was still enough of a whiff of utopianism in the 27 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: tech world that that you'd have people people like talking 28 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: earnestly about how they're going to make the world a 29 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: better place. Actually today they're still over there talking earnestly 30 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: about how they're going to make the world a better place, 31 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: whether you want it to be a better place or not, 32 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: or they're gonna make it one. Now very you know, 33 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: basically nobody takes them seriously anymore. Now. They just see 34 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: it as kind of what it is, a gathering of 35 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: global elites trying to like keep together the structures that 36 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: have propped them up. This theme, as as that article 37 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: just mentioned, was how much they're failing and how it's 38 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: all falling apart, and that they're trying to reglobalize or 39 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: deglobalize and then reglobalize or stitch back together. This this 40 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: dream that they had of this of this globalized world 41 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: which only includes the flow of global capital and global elites. Yes, 42 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: does not include kind of opening up the world in 43 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: any kind of broader ways. Right now, that's a good point. 44 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: And actually, on that point, we want to start with 45 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: a clip from hilariously a panel on disinformation that was 46 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: I believe, moderated by Brian Stelter. Now, this is funny 47 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. I have absolutely no objection 48 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: to Brian Steltz being on a panel about disinformation. In fact, 49 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: I think it's a great spot for Brian Steltzer to 50 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: be on a panel. But if he's reckoning with the 51 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: being a serious purveyor of disinformation throughout the course of 52 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: the Trump administration, of course that's not what happened. Instead, 53 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: it was a panel about how the global elites can 54 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: rain in the masses via new censorship legislation. You had 55 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: to have a Democrat pushing back. Weird. Check it out. 56 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: Here's the clip. That's why you're saying, the rules have 57 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: to be set up in a way not to be abused. Yes, Congressman, 58 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: should we learn in the US something from the structures 59 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: that the Europeans have adopted well, look, I think in general, 60 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: the US has a lot to learn in terms of 61 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: data regulation internet regulation. You're way ahead of us in 62 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: that regard. But we believe very strongly in free speech. 63 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: I believe very strongly in free speech, and I think 64 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: there is a healthy concern in the United States that 65 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: the EU might be be going a little too far. 66 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: So I think you look at this from both perspectives. Yes, 67 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: they're ahead of us, and they're doing some smart things 68 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: that I know when I use the Internet in Europe 69 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: and I get all the warnings about cookies and whatnot, 70 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: that actually makes me feel safer. That makes me feel better, 71 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: And a lot of American consumers want that level of 72 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: security on the Internet for your own data, privacy and whatnot. 73 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: The EU legislation I think should be a non starter 74 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: at least in terms of censorship. And yet you have 75 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: a journalist sort of like Brian Steltz kind of nod incredulously, 76 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: like it's a very interesting conversation to be had. Were 77 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: you surprised that Seth Moulton pushback, Well, yeah, and I 78 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: think there's two points of European kind of Internet regulation. 79 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: So on the one hand, like he said, the data 80 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: stuff where big tech really is blocked or and it 81 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: also required to do a lot more transparency around the 82 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: way that they collect and cash in on your data. 83 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: Surveillance capitalists. Right, that's some good stuff. They're pretty tough. 84 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: So like big tech warning, l we're going to go 85 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: out of business. We're going to be bankrupt if you 86 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: keep doing this to us, Like whenever you hear those 87 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: kinds of noises from big tech, like, Okay, well, maybe 88 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: this is actually a regulation worth paying attention to. But 89 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: Europe does not have the same kind of affinity culturally 90 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: for free speech that we have in the United States. 91 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: We're almost unique. We've seen that actually from Prince Harry 92 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: and Megan Markle, who I believe they're on an Aspen 93 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: Institute board that deals with these issues, and have said, 94 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what the deal is with 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: the First Amendment here in the United States, and what 96 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: the heck is this. It's a very weird place to 97 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: start from for a lot of people that wait, we 98 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: start from the place that you can say whatever you want. Yeah, 99 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: it sounds impossible. How can that be? That'd be so 100 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: dangerous to society? How do you control the peasants? How 101 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: do you control, yes, right, and so, uh, that was 102 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: interesting to see Molton kind of saying, you know what, 103 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: we got a a trivia question he ran for president. 104 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: I actually completely it was on stage four the like 105 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: Midnight Debate. Yeah, one or two of them. But I 106 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: think you your preface to this conversation about the sort 107 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: of arc of Davos makes a really good point, which 108 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: is that what we've seen recently is I think a 109 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: more naked, an intentional effort to rain in populace. And 110 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: this is a sort of theme of Davos recently is 111 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, sort of how can we rig the system, 112 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: how can we sort of uh copy, copy and paste 113 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: laws from one place to the to the other so 114 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: we can feel secure in the in the fact that 115 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: we have these mechanisms in place to control people to 116 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: our liking. And they obviously make this argument, and you 117 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: can see one of the good things about Davos is 118 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: that you can see many of them sincerely think this 119 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: is for the greater good. They think they're speaking on 120 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: half of the good of the public. And it's great 121 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: because you can see that, you can see what they 122 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: think they're saying, you can see what they're working through 123 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: in their own heads and it's never airing on the 124 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: side of freedom. Yeah, and at a minimum, they think 125 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: that the reforms that they're offering up and the ideas 126 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: that they're throwing out there are going to stave off 127 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: this populist revolt. So oftentimes at Davos you'd have people saying, 128 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: you might not necessarily want to do this thing, a 129 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: wealth tax, you know, whatever it is, but you should 130 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: do it or else the pitchforks are coming for you. 131 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: That would that would often be their relationship with populism, 132 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: And Davos has all sorts of kind of activists that 133 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: come out there, often kind of foundation funded activists who 134 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: are who then deliver that message to the elites, to 135 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: the elites out there, but oftentimes they just don't know 136 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: how to deliver it. And actually, if we could put 137 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: up a three my colleague over the intercept Ken Kleepenstein 138 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: Flag Flag disc panel on retirement the World Economic Form, 139 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: what's their headline that we desperately need to disrupt our 140 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: approach to retirement saving and nobody, I just don't I 141 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: don't think that they understand how frightened people get when 142 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: the global leites start talking about disrupting your retirement. They 143 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: still have this attitude that they're going to do good 144 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: for a great number of people and that and that 145 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: they're going to say that and that we're going to 146 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: believe it, rather than that we're going to say, oh, so, 147 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: now you want to steal our retirement, like you see it, 148 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: you see a profitable way to kind of siphon a 149 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: little bit more blood out of out of this stone. Now. 150 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: Of course they're not wrong that in general there's a 151 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: retirement crisis, that people need more security. But their solutions 152 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: that they that they talk about here are, you know, 153 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: get banks to make more financial products, you know, for 154 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: for working class people, which is going to translate into 155 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: banks just hitting working class people with fees throughout their 156 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: whole And this is why I was I think is 157 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: increasingly used the word credibility earlier, like it's increasingly lost 158 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: credibility because the same people who got us into the 159 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: Great Recession are the same people who are trying to 160 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: now get us out of this the growing pains of populism, 161 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: or the cultural pains, the economic pains of populism. And 162 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: you can see under the surface at things like Davos 163 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: exactly where their motivations are for something like that. And 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: in another let's let's actually roll this video because it 165 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. If we roll a four it ties 166 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: into all of this when it comes to social security. 167 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: As congressman, I forget that some Republican, it's some Republicans public. 168 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: Here's the video for what reason? The age of retirement. 169 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, that's interesting that you asked that question. People 170 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: come up to me the act that's on the table. 171 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: You're there, maybe I know, Okay, Literally nobody is saying 172 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: that to him. That was Rick Allen. He's from Georgia. 173 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: A chance he owns a car dealership. Yes, if you're 174 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: listening and not watching, I think Rian just picked up 175 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: on something esthetically that makes a lot of sense. Nobody 176 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: is coming up to him and saying that. And you 177 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: know what's interesting is that actually, at the same time 178 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: Republicans are making this message nobody wants to work anymore. 179 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: He's saying people want to work more. Now I agree 180 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: that people want to work generally. I think the right 181 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: overplays this idea that nobody wants to work. But you 182 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: can't have both of those things at the same time, 183 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: and I think I would be I would be shocked 184 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: if more than just a couple of people who were 185 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: in different sets of circumstances. Maybe they were tired, and 186 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: then the market tanked because of the pandemic, which I 187 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: know happened to a lot of people. But I would 188 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: be surprised if any folks were genuinely coming to him 189 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: and saying, let me work until I'm sixty eight. I 190 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: just let me work until I'm seventy. Why not? I 191 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: did Google? And then there is a Rick Allen who's 192 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: the owner of a GDA vehicle Fleet sales in Atlanta, Georgia. 193 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: If you're right about that, I think it's a different 194 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: risk case. There are a bunch of members of Congress 195 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: who have owned car dealerships and are still own car dealerships. 196 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: But the right, of course, yes, like work often does 197 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: provide meeting to people, and if people want to continue 198 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: working longer into their life, of course, I don't think 199 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: there's anybody who would really support a mandatory retirement, except 200 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: for pilots or you know, other professions where you're like, okay, 201 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe it's time you do something else. 202 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: You can keep working, just maybe don't fly, maybe don't 203 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: fly the planes anymore. But I love how he goes 204 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: from what you pointed out rightly is an obvious lie 205 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: that people are coming up to him and saying, Congressman, 206 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: I would just wish that I could work more. Is 207 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: there's something that Washington can do about that forced me 208 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: to force me to work longer into my life. I 209 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: don't want to do it of my own volition. What 210 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: I want is you to want to be incentivized. That 211 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: he goes into and they says that you're going to 212 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: use our head and we're going to incentivize people to 213 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: work longer. And but what he means by incentivizing somebody 214 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: to work longer is basically raising the retirement age of 215 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: solid security and otherwise otherwise making people more economically insecure 216 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: deeper into their life, because then they're incentivized to go 217 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: out and get more money. And this is what the 218 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: Davos blog posts that can picked up on is talking about. 219 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: They're saying people are living longer, thus we need to 220 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: create a pathway for people to work longer, as opposed 221 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: to let me, let me just try something out on everyone. 222 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: Maybe the benefit of living longer is having more time 223 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: as you're older to make decisions about leisure, to actually 224 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: like that's the point of the industrial system. You can 225 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: debate all of these different things about industrialization, but one 226 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: very clear point of the reform that have happened is 227 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: that you earn a retirement. That is a huge part 228 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: of our system that we have agreed as a society 229 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: is a worthwhile ambition for people that they bust their 230 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: butts for forty plus years, for decades, provide for themselves, 231 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: provide for their families, provide for the communities, and then 232 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: they retire as their body gets older, as their mind 233 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: gets older, and they can enjoy life. So perhaps instead 234 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: of saying the opposite, right, instead of saying, you know, 235 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: we're going to make you work now that you're living longer, 236 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: we have to find a way for you to work longer, 237 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: maybe what we should think is, now that you're living longer, 238 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: we have to find a way to make your decades 239 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: of work sustain you into the future. And So to 240 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: bring this back into the news cycle, you've got House Republicans, 241 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: not just Rick Allen in the back bench there, well, 242 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: you've got some leading House Republicans who've consistently flowed the 243 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: idea that cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid ought to 244 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: be part of some type of reckoning with the devasit 245 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: and the dead around the debt ceiling that you had 246 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: McCarthy say, I think during the election, like that's something 247 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: we're going to look at. Yep, and been you had 248 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: a lot of like Rachel Bouvart and other like what 249 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: are you doing, Like we're done with this? Shut the 250 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: hell up, stop, don't don't do this, don't talk about 251 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: it like it's this is not a winner for you. 252 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: People don't want people's And there's also so much more 253 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: precarity than there was in people's lives even twenty years ago. 254 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: It's getting to a place. And also people are older. Yeah, 255 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: the Republican basis older. The American public, it's older, like 256 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: we're an aging society, and so they're going to go 257 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: after people's retirement in this way, the way that Bush 258 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: tried to do in two thousand and five after his 259 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: election strikes me as a political blunder. But you know, 260 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: the Trump's tax cut was a giant political blunder, but 261 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: they did it anyway because it was what they wanted. 262 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: So what's your sense on how serious they are about 263 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: about really pushing forward on this in the context of 264 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: a debt sealing crisis. I think this is really the 265 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: thing to watch on the right right now because they're 266 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: in this transition period and kind of developing a new prioritization, 267 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: a new set of priorities. They sort of understand, at 268 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: least people who are involved in the conversation about where 269 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: the party should go, understand that Paul ryan Ism, like 270 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: you were saying in the latter half of the Bush administration, 271 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: was a political blunder. That the tax cut bill is 272 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: a political blunder. That is basically a point of consensus 273 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: in the conservative movement right now that the tax cut 274 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: bill was completely misprioritized. That like, maybe that's fine, like 275 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: it actually did. Millionaires are good with a corporate tax 276 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: cit Like you can make an argument that it creates jobs, 277 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. But we're in a state of 278 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: cultural crisis, and if all you can talk about is 279 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: cutting corporate taxes and just sort of doing Remember Paul 280 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: Ryan said he was going to do this very populist thing, 281 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: which would be to get the tax code downe to 282 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: a postcard. You'd be able to file your taxes on 283 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: a postcard. It didn't come anywhere close to that. Because 284 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: as soon as you try to do that, lobbyists latch 285 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: onto it. And if you're Paul Ryan, you don't know 286 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: the power to resist that or the will to resist that. 287 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: So what's happening is this question of priorities, and this 288 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: narrative that is congealing on the right is that these 289 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: spending cuts when you're talking about sequestration, when you're talking 290 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: about negotiating tough with the debt ceiling, which is imminent, 291 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: that's on the table, that's going to start happening, like 292 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: now it is happening. What are you going to say 293 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: that by an administrations thing? We're not negotiating period. Republicans 294 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: are saying, well, how do we sell this because we 295 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: are going to negotiate because there are serious arguments about 296 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: spending there, like you said, aging population totally outpacing the 297 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: growth of the economy in terms of social security, Medicaid, Medicare. 298 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: And one of the questions is is this about tyranny? 299 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: And that's the word that keeps coming statism, tyranny. That 300 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: the gas stove argument, right, Jim Jordan tweeted last week 301 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: God gun, guns and gas stoves, And that's the argument 302 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: that they're starting to land on that a bigger government 303 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: means more control in your life. Basically, that is not medicaid, 304 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: that is not Medicare, that is not social security. So 305 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: if your priority is cutting down big government tyranny or 306 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: is it the debt? Right, which one is it? Because 307 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: if it's big government tyranny, you're not going to want 308 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: to start with that. There's also just such an extraordinary 309 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: amount of blasphemy though, and that whole gat God, guns 310 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: and gass, I mean God and then guns, like, okay, 311 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: we love, we're all we're all one, we're all one 312 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: people and guns. Then you're gonna slap slap that next 313 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: to it. Okay, but that's fine, you've been doing that 314 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: for long. And then gas dows. Doesn't that so radically 315 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: diminish the like you're talking about the the infinite, the 316 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: greatest like force on the planet God putting those on 317 00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: the same plane, the Trinity, the Holy Trinity. Yeah, like, 318 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: come on, well, but that's what they're trying to do. 319 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: This argument is that it's all part of the same thing. 320 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: It's all part of the and Jim Jordan didn't say this, 321 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: but it's all part of the Davos agenda. Jim Jordan 322 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: on an acid trip. Think about it, all right. So, 323 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: and by the way, we have an update. Rick Allen 324 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: would have been my second guest. He owned a construction company. 325 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's close. I was close. We got one 326 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: more thing to show you, guys. Yes, this is a 327 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: good one. And here's here's Davos in a nutshell, Kirsten 328 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: Cinema and Joe Manchin surrounded by billionaires. Let's roll that 329 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: difference for the American people in the last two years. 330 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: We still don't agree on getting rid of the filibuster. 331 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: That's correct, Thank you. They high fived if you if 332 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: you're listening, what you what you missed is play that 333 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: one back. Yeah, mansion jumping in and saying we still 334 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: don't agree on getting rid of the filibuster. And then 335 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: they just come together for a beautiful moment. Yeah, nice little, 336 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: nice little high five. They're former Democrat Kirsten Cinema. Yes, 337 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: I forgot about that. It's just the news cycle move 338 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: so quickly. All right, let's move on to the news 339 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: about Solomon Paya. This is a developing story that really 340 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: caught a bunch of traction yesterday. So he was arrested 341 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: by it b one here, yeah, b one. He's arrested 342 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: by Albuquerque police on Monday. They call him the quote 343 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: mastermind between behind a recent string of shootings that were 344 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: targeting Democratic lawmakers' homes. I'm reading from the Albuquerque Journal 345 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: right now. The suspect is a Republican who unsuccessfully ran 346 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: for office. He ran for a state representative slot back 347 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: in November and claimed that his election was rigged. He 348 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: seems to have a peer. He seems to have been 349 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: at January sixth. He's accused of paying four men to 350 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: shoot at the homes of two county commissioners and two 351 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: state legislatures. We actually have video of his arrest. We 352 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: can roll that on the screen. You see right there, 353 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: he's being arrested by a police in Albuquerque. Ryan, what 354 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: do you make of the situation? So, I mean, first 355 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: of all, people should understand that. So he got something 356 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: like twenty five percent of the vote, and there are 357 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: you know, maybe thousands, if certainly more than a thousand 358 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: of these types of races around the country where you'll 359 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: have a fringe basically a fringe candidate. The party doesn't 360 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: want to put anybody out because they know they're going 361 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: to get absolutely hammered. No people run. People who do 362 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: run those campaigns kind of run them for practice to 363 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: say like, all right, let me see what it's like 364 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: to kind of hire a campaign manager to do call time, 365 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: to go to town halls and eat the rubber chicken. 366 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: Let me see if I let me see if I 367 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: enjoy this knowing that I'm going to lose by fifty points. 368 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: And then you're going to have some complete lunatics who 369 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: are going to run for these positions. And so it 370 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: appears that he was one of these. The police say that, 371 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: or the New Mexico news media say that he may 372 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: have even accompanied these hit men that he allegedly hired 373 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: on some of these In one of the in one 374 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: of the shootings, what ten or twelve year old girl 375 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: sleeping in the sleeping in the home and three bullets 376 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: went through the bedroom, which is just utterly horrifying. Nobody 377 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: who is running for office signs up for that. Nobody, 378 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: nobody deserves that. And so I do think we have 379 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: to ask the question, like, what what is it that's 380 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: that's driving this, this sense that the stakes are so 381 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: high that it requires firing bullets off into people's houses. 382 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: And there's got to be some mental illness I was 383 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: going on here, but but as but that, We've always 384 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: had mental illness, right, although we have higher rates, higher 385 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: rates of it probably, but we've always had significant rates, 386 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, non trivial rates of mental illness iness country. 387 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: So what what is it that's that's producing this. Yeah, 388 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: that's one of the interesting questions that I was actually 389 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: going to ask, is you know, whenever there's, like you said, 390 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: a lunatic, you know, the shooting from the Bernie Sanders 391 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: supporter of the congressional baseball practice, or the pipe bombs 392 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: that were mailed to CNN or what I think there 393 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: were pipe bonds that were mailed to the CNN, whenever 394 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: there's a lunatic who appears to just sort of be 395 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: somewhere on the map, maybe leaning left me, maybe leaning right, 396 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: it gets really wrapped into this narrative about one side's 397 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: deep seated problems. And this story absolutely had I mean, 398 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: this was blanketing MSNBC yesterday, which I keep on in 399 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: the background of course to see my girl Andrew Mitchell 400 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: what she's up to, got to keep up with Stephanie Ruhle. 401 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: But it's being used in that respect basically like this 402 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: is indicative of a broader trend on the right, and 403 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: whenever it's a lunatic, I just hesitate to do that. 404 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: I think it's entirely fair to say January is indicative 405 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: of something deep seated and something broader. I would say 406 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: the same thing about riots in twenty twenty, and I 407 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: think people on both sides would probably have no problem 408 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: actually saying that in an honest conversation. But this guy, 409 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: he's also a felon. And you have this red flag 410 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: question that was raised actually by the House Republican leader 411 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: who says, this is yet another example of a convicted 412 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: fella unlawfully gaining access to firearms which they are barred 413 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: from owning or possessing, and using the weapon in a 414 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: manner that causes public harm. And we land again on 415 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: this question of like, can we function as a society anymore? 416 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: Can we do the basic things not just as a government, 417 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: but as a society that are needed to have any 418 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: sense of coherence, And it seems the answer to that 419 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: is increasingly no. I think that point about the guns 420 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: is a good one and goes to the question of 421 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: why is this happening more? Because if you have if 422 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: you have more anger, and you have either a stable 423 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: or a slightly rising level of mental illness, but you 424 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: have three times more guns than you had in the past, 425 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: then you're going to be more likely to see gun violence, 426 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, flowing out of that and there it's kind 427 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: of a fantasy to think that you could have three 428 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: four hundred five hundred million guns in a country with 429 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty million people and that you would 430 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: then be able to precisely keep those weapons out of 431 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: the hands of every single felon or every other person 432 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: that hasn't Like, if you're going to have a culture 433 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 1: that has that many guns, this is going to be 434 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: a result of that. But you're right that in the 435 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: wake of one of these shootings, you see everybody scouring 436 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: kind of the social media feed of the person who 437 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: did this, this one. They didn't have to go far 438 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: because they're trying to divine where the political leanings are, Like, oh, 439 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: ran for office as a Republican. He was out of 440 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: January sixth, and it was gonna go ahead and put 441 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: that one in the R column over here. But you're 442 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: right that it is a it is a contest, and 443 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: you'll see people saying like, oh God, I hope this 444 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: wasn't one of our guys other whether that's left or right. 445 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: You know, as as they're kind of waiting with bated 446 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: breath to find information on the shooter set, then everybody 447 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: can go into their battle stations and make their political points. Well. 448 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: And you just also, I think, really, something that's you 449 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: said earlier actually that he was what's the word you used? Oh? 450 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: That this is? What is it? That? Is there something 451 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: that's sort of seeding this more and more? And I 452 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: do think there's plenty of reason to point to Donald Trump, 453 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: specifically the lies that he told his own supporters between 454 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: the election, the exaggerations and lies and like theories that 455 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: he I think irresponsibly recklessly floated between the election and 456 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: January sixth, and continues to float that I think is 457 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: extremely serious. I mean, I'm on the right. I'm happy 458 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,239 Speaker 1: to admit that it's not even an emission. It's just 459 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: like obvious reality. And when you have someone that powerful, 460 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: that powerful using his power, I think recklessly, Yes, you're 461 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: going to get more of this because none of us 462 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: know who to trust anymore. And the people who come 463 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: out and say you can't trust anyone are the ones 464 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: that are going to get trust, and then if you 465 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: abuse that trust, I think that is a really dangerous 466 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: and immoral thing to do, and I certainly think we 467 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: saw that. I think there are examples of that, you know, 468 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: from folks on the left too, where there's just these 469 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: nonsense narratives that aren't actually rooted in reality. But this 470 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: is a really big one, and it is actually I 471 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: think causing some serious cultural tension in ways like this, right, 472 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: because if you believe that elections are legitimately being stolen 473 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: by shadowy forces, then you can imagine why you would 474 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: feel morally compelled to do something about that. That was 475 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: one hundred percent the case on January sixth. You talk 476 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: to folks who were there, it was this idea that 477 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: like they really truly believed that Congress was stealing the 478 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: election out from under their noses in that building, which, 479 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: for the YouTube sensor, by the way, they were not. No, 480 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: they were not election. Joe Biden lawfully won the election, Yes, 481 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: thank you. And so a lot of that, you know, 482 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: is completely downstream of somebody who's in a position of 483 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: power and whose supporters say, well, he knows more than 484 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: I do. He's the president, he has access to classified information, 485 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: he has accessed to all these different things. So he's 486 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: saying it, there's probably more legitimacy than even I know 487 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: or the media knows. So it's just an abuse of 488 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: that power. Speaking of YouTube. So Joe Rogan throughout an 489 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: interesting theory we're going to bat around today. Let's let's 490 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: take Let's listen to Joe Rogan on his take on 491 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: this drip drip coming from the Joe Biden team around 492 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: the classified documents that keep turning up in his garage, 493 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: his closets, boxes elsewhere. I don't know. I don't even 494 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: know jack about politics, but if I had to guess 495 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: they're trying to get rid of him, that would my 496 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: guess would be there trying to get rid of him, 497 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: if all of a sudden his own aids are sending 498 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: these instead of like taking these classified documents which you 499 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: have located and go well, let's not do that again, 500 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: and fucking locking them up somewhere his own aids self reporting. Dude, 501 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: come that sounds suss well, no one self reported that 502 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: fucking laptop. I know that was that was Russian disinformation 503 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: that reeks eva. They got a hold of the social 504 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: media companies and lied to them they did whatever the 505 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: fuck they could to keep that from happening. And even this, 506 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: they discovered this before the midterms. Yeah, so they didn't 507 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: release the information until after the midterms. He picks up 508 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: on something there. I think is important that the media 509 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: is not picking up on, which is these these documents 510 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: were discovered the first batch that we heard about at 511 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: Biden's think tank on November second. When was the election, 512 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: like that eighth or something something. Yeah, it was a 513 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: few days later, so November second. We don't find out 514 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: about any of this until January, and they turned them 515 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: into the archives in a way, right, that's what they say. 516 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: And then the Archives alerted the Department of Justice. Right 517 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: in the Department of Justice eventually decides to appoint a 518 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: special council. Yes, but not immediately. They didn't have the 519 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: FBI director go out and hold a press conference like 520 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: with Hiller Clinton. Yes, And so I think a big 521 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: part of the story we don't know yet is how 522 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: this became public, why it became public, how it did, 523 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: and when it did. And then Walter Shaub is a 524 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: sort of ethics analyst, ethics expert, told The Hill something interesting. 525 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: He's saying, you know, one of the biggest problems for 526 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: the White House here is that when they were asked 527 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: about whether there were more documents, they said they just 528 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: had the pen documents, and it turned out, of course, 529 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: it seems they knew earlier than when they told the 530 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: public that there were more documents, and that is the 531 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: big remaining open question. So does any of this point 532 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: in the direction of what Rogan is talking about that perhaps, 533 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: you know, the Demmo private Party realizes that Joe Biden 534 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: is potentially senile, he's sort of passed his prime, He's 535 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: not their best, their freshest, youngest, most politically expedient face 536 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: right now going into a presidential cycle, and they sort 537 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: of see an easy way out given what happened at 538 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: mar Lago, and I do. So let's take two of 539 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: the other points that were made there, one of them 540 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: being if this happened to a Trump kid, would the 541 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: media go absolutely berserk on it? And I would say 542 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: that it did happen to a Trump kid kid in law, 543 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: and it didn't. They didn't go berzark on it. So 544 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: I just pulled up so I could find the date, 545 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: March twenty eighteen. I and my other colleagues over at 546 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: the intercept reported there's our headline. Saudi Crown Prince boasted 547 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: that Jared Kushner was quote in his pocket. MBS told 548 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: Confidence that Kushner discussed the names of royal family members 549 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: opposed to his power grab right before he then locked 550 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: up a bunch of those same family members in the 551 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: Ritz Carlton torture. They were a bunch were tortured. One 552 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: died from torture. The Daily Mail subsequently also reported that 553 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: Kushner had gleaned classified information on enemies or adversaries or 554 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: skeptics of MBS within Saudi Arabia and given that intelligence 555 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: to MBS, who then acted on it by rounding them up. 556 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: So we don't have to ask the question of what 557 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: would happen if one of Trump's kids had some classified 558 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: document scandal and what the media would do. Media did 559 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: almost nothing with that, And it gives you a sense 560 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: of how little and how inbed the media is with 561 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: the Gulf monarchies. That they hated, that they hated Trump 562 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: so much and loved any story that they could find 563 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: that was going to nail Trump. And then they have 564 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: one where this guy's dead to rights, like taking US intel, 565 00:30:54,320 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: handing it to NBS who then uses it and so 566 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: at least one person winds up dead. Although MB is 567 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: really the media really turned on MBS post Kashogi post kogi. 568 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: Yeah right, But March twenty eighteen, they had, they had 569 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: every opportunity to unleash on Kushner when we're doing this, 570 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: and they covered it a little bit, and they like 571 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: they would do a couple They did a couple of 572 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: segments on our reporting, but it certainly did not become 573 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: the kind of cycle that they could have that they 574 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: could have made it into. Well, and that's a frustrating 575 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: part of this story. Whenever there's an opportunity for the 576 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: corporate press to like latch theatrically onto a narrative to 577 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: make them look like they're really tough, like they they 578 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: are not lap dogs, they're watchdogs. They just take it 579 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: with a plum and then it's trotted out by them 580 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: as evidence they're really tough. They did this with some 581 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: of the Hillary Clinton stories and they're like, yeah, listen, 582 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: we do this to everyone. It's like, that's utter nonsense, 583 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: and you wrote it. And think about the stories that 584 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: the corporate press latches onto and really really drive home. 585 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: They are ones that are theatrical, but pure theater because 586 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: they don't challenge any of the current power arrangements. They 587 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: only kind of raify them in a lot of ways. 588 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: So when it came to twenty sixteen, going after Hillary 589 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: Clinton's email scandal, they were fine, They're fine doing that. 590 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: They lit her up for a year over whether she 591 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: like you know, about her handling of classified information on 592 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: this server. But who did that challenge? It challenged Hillary Clinton, 593 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: but it didn't challenge any of the structural relationships that 594 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: the United States has embedded with around the world. Russia Gate, 595 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: what does that? Do you know? That just portrays Russia 596 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: as malign and nasty and adversarial to the United States. 597 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: Like that's already the status quo. Everybody already believed that 598 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: that was the case. But if you have a story 599 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: that is going to require you to go up against 600 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, that is challenging the status quo power arrangement. 601 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: And to Rogan's point, it's a very precarious position for 602 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: a party to be in when their president loses the 603 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: internal party consensus. And Trump is obviously an exception, I 604 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: think to a lot of this, But you really start 605 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: to see things disintegrate when you whenever you have that, internally, 606 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: the party is like, ah, what do we do with 607 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: this guy? Which is interesting in Biden's case because if 608 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: you are, you know, holding Biden to his own standards, 609 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: He's passed a ton of legislation, some of his target legislation. 610 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: He's he's made good on several big promises, and people 611 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: feel like he's been productive, but also that he's sort 612 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: of not very popular with the American people and is 613 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: obviously struggling on a sort of mental level. So if 614 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: you start to lose the support, you potentially can get 615 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: things like I don't think anything was planted or planned here, 616 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: but I do think you get people who are excited 617 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: at the prospect of saying, well, maybe he just this 618 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: gives him an exit to sort of gracefully bow out, 619 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: and things can leaks start happening, things start snowballing, And 620 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: I don't think that's a bad point. And Row, Yeah, 621 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: I think taken literally, you could kind of reject Rogan's hypothesis, 622 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: but I don't think you should wave it away that easily, 623 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: because if you don't take it quite as literally as 624 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: he means it, but in the way that you mean 625 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: that Biden's weakening power sets up what people would kind 626 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: of badantically call like a permission structure for those underneath 627 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: him to say, like, you know what, you know, if 628 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: there's a choice of how to handle a particular situation, 629 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: if somebody has an intense amount of power at the 630 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: top and is cruising to re election, that changes your 631 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: decision about you know what you're what you're what you're 632 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: able to do, what you're willing to do in a 633 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: particular moment. If you if you sense that somebody is weaker, 634 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: almost a lame duck, and you're like, well, you know what, 635 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: there's another document alert, you call the cops, Call the 636 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: Washington Post, call the cops. Yeah, learning And Karine Jean 637 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: Pierre keeps getting asked about this. If we could, let's 638 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: roll this latest with this latest clip from her last week. 639 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: We told everyone who the film that we all can 640 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: assume mar people could assume that the searches were complete 641 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: and all the documents that don't recovered. On Saturday, the 642 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: White House Counsel's Office said that five digital clasified documents 643 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: could be found. Is it safe to assume now that 644 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: all the documents are have been recovered? All the official records. 645 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: All the passite documents are the document the Council of 646 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: the Antal Archives or more searches on your way to 647 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: find out of your staming out there. So I understand 648 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: your question. We have addressed multiple questions from here. Multiple 649 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: questions have been answered by the President. I know that 650 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: you all just spent about some of you, some of 651 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,959 Speaker 1: your colleagues, maybe you yourself. Seek was on the phone 652 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: with my colleague for about forty five minutes. That addressed 653 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: a lot of your questions. I'm just going to continue 654 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: to be prudent here. I'm going to let this ongoing 655 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: review that is happening, this legal process that is happening, 656 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: and let that process continue under the Special Council. I'm 657 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: not going to comment from here. Yeah, I don't envy 658 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: the position she's in last week, this week, and the 659 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: week's ahead. Yeah, it's like because the second that she 660 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: says nope, we found every single one, be like up 661 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: underneath the kid's bed, he found another box of memos. 662 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: And then you get into the veep scenario where it's like, well, 663 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: what did kjpo and when did she know it? Versus 664 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: was she just intentionally kind of kept out of the 665 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: loop or unintentionally kept out of the loop. And you know, 666 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: again do not envy her position. Some of the Biden 667 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: classified documents were about Ukraine, which brings us to our 668 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: next next piece of news. Let's roll the clip here 669 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: of the Polish Prime Minister warning of World War three. 670 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: Ukraine's defeat may become a prelude to World War three. Therefore, 671 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: today there's no reason to block support for Kiev to procrastinate. Thus, 672 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 1: I called for decisive actions by German government on all 673 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: sorts of weapons to be delivered to Ukraine. Yeah, so 674 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: this is they're calling for an increase in tanks. By 675 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: the way, that has induced somewhat of a debate from 676 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: Germany because Germany has to give permission the way this 677 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: works for their tanks to be sent to Ukraine. If 678 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: it's a German tank, then they have to give permission. 679 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: It's so angs it's leaning in the direction that they're 680 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: going to do it. So here's Ben Wallace, the British 681 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary, who says there's a debate in Germany at 682 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: the moment about whether tank is an offensive weapon or 683 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: defensive weapon. Well, it depends on what you're using it for. 684 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: If you're using it to defend your country. I would 685 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: wager that is a defensive weapon system. This is all 686 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: coming on the heels. Is that just absolutely awful strike 687 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: on the apartment building. We have some footage of that 688 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: we can roll right now from Reuters. Look at that. 689 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: How do you pronounce the name of the city, by 690 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: the way, I don't. It's Apro, Yeah, denipro, yeah, den pro. 691 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: So it's just incredible scene right there. There's actually video 692 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: see that yellow kitchen that it just zoomed in on. 693 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: Some news outlets got video from that kitchen before the 694 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: strike of a girl's birthday party right blown out of 695 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: candles and you can see that it's the same yellow Yeah. Yeah, 696 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: it's a It's a pretty striking juxtaposition of how life 697 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: can be so normal at one moment and then devastated 698 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: in the next with these technologies that exist right now 699 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 1: from distances, people can be struck. And you also had 700 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: at the World Economic Forum you had Joe Manchin saying 701 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: that the United States commitment to this war was indefinite. 702 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: You had the Finnish Prime Minister saying that the only way, 703 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: you know that the only way that this war could 704 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: end is Russia loses it that your you have basically 705 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: a global elite consensus on the in the West that 706 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: negotiations around a ceasefire and talks to end this war 707 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: are just not worth considering. It's just it's just not 708 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: It's not not something that is going to be on 709 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: a panel at Davos and kicked around as an idea 710 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: that anybody should take seriously. It's quite striking, like the 711 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: only you know, the only possible strategy, it seems like 712 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: for the West here is relentless support of Ukraine until 713 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: Russia is defeated. Right, that's without kind of anybody presenting 714 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: a picture of what that looks like, like how does 715 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: that actually happen? And you'll have people like the finished 716 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: Prime Minister say, well, Russia could just leave. That is true. Ye, 717 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: Russia could indeed leave, And I think that they should leave. 718 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: I don't think they should have invaded in the first place. 719 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: But we're also on planet Earth. They're not going to 720 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: just pack up and leave. There is no realistic indication 721 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: of that, and they continue to act. Their strategy is 722 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: built around exactly that notion that someday the Russians can 723 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: be induced to just pack up and leave, and you know, 724 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: short of nuclear war, it's incredibly difficult in the real 725 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: world to envision a scenario. And that doesn't mean appeasement. 726 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: It really doesn't need to. It doesn't necessarily mean appeasement. 727 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: But the solution cannot be a long drawn out quagmire 728 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: that's much better for defense contractors than it is for 729 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: people living in the region, right, I mean, it's insane. 730 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: Strategy is insane because what they're really calling for is 731 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: basically an endless kind of low grade war, right, and 732 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 1: because they're fine with it now, because they make a 733 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: bunch of money off of it, and it allows them 734 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: to be the sort of theatrical warmongering on the sort 735 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: of campaign stage. It allows them to funnel money to 736 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: people who funnel money back to them, and it seems 737 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: like an all around win win. And you know, obviously, 738 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: obviously nobody would disagree that there's strategic importance of Ukraine 739 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: to the West, that this is an incredible im moral 740 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: devastation of innocent people and of civilians, and that what 741 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is doing is an atrocity and is incredibly wrong. 742 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: But again, if you live in the real world, it 743 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you just hope and pay defense contractors enough 744 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: money that Vladimir Putin says, I'm out right, and it 745 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: seems like both sides are kind of comfortable with this 746 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: low grade war that's going to leave you know, thousands 747 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: dead every single year and make reconstruction externally difficult because 748 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: you'll continue to have attacks like the one you just 749 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: saw in de Nepro. And Putin is just fine with 750 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: it too, I think, because the big the big risk 751 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: for Putin at this point because his main goal basically 752 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: of installing a puppet regime in Kiev has failed, and 753 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: so he doesn't want to come out a loser. He 754 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: wants to be able to declare victory somehow, and so 755 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: if the war never ends, then he then he never loses. 756 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: So for that reason, he'd be okay, you know, with 757 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: basically keeping this war that was going on at Dombas 758 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: starting in twenty fourteen, going basically the rest of our 759 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: lives and then some. But that's another really good point, 760 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: which is if you want regime change in Russia, you 761 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: can surely change the regime. Fine, Let's say you wave 762 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: your magic wand and you do something extra judicial and 763 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: you just change the regime whateverything's fine, or that's the 764 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: outcome of a really a massive war that's waged. That 765 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: doesn't erase sentiments in Russia, and it doesn't erase sentiments 766 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: in the Dambas in Ukraine that are going to continue 767 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,439 Speaker 1: to be seeds of tension and turmoil over these sort 768 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: of complications of this region and the battles. You know, 769 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: like we can all agree about where we think the 770 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: boundaries of Ukraine should be, we can all agree what 771 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,919 Speaker 1: is an illegal incursion. That doesn't change the reality that 772 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,399 Speaker 1: people there don't always agree that people in Russia don't 773 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: agree with that, and they don't agree to the point 774 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: that they're willing to to wage war over the territory 775 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: to make that point. So, I mean, none of that 776 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: goes away with the strategy. The strategy doesn't deal with 777 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: any of that. And there's an argument, of course, that 778 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,720 Speaker 1: it's the thing that sort of creates that just totally 779 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: destroys the incentive that Putin or anyone else would have 780 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: to make illegal invasions and incursions like this. But I 781 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: just don't see any evidence for that, because Putin is, 782 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: he's taking losses and he's continuing to do it. If 783 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: we could put up this next element too. Then this 784 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: is among the fallout from this top top Zelenski advisor 785 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: resigned in the wake of comments that he basically what 786 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: he said he went on live television. He said that 787 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: it looked like and missile had been intercepted. Russian missile 788 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: had been intercepted, knocked off course and landed in this building, 789 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,919 Speaker 1: which is the death toll is up to forty four 790 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: at this point, including five children, whereas other officials have 791 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: pushed back and said no, the evidence is that it 792 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: was a direct hit from a Russian battleship, that the 793 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: damage the building shows that it was a direct hit 794 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: rather than something knocked off course, and so the advisors 795 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,919 Speaker 1: stepped down as a result of this. Though I don't 796 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: know if it's been conclusively shown what precisely happened. It's 797 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: very very difficult to say. Yeah, well, we'll continue to 798 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: follow that story. And speaking of Foreign affairs, let's move 799 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 1: on to news about the Foreign Afair Committee's commitee. A 800 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: final committeessignments were released yesterday by the new House Republican 801 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,479 Speaker 1: majority Slim majority, and there's some news on that front. 802 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: When it comes to the Foreign Affairs Committee, let's put 803 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: up the tear sheet there. You can see Marjorie Taylor 804 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: Green received a slot on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Gosar 805 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,439 Speaker 1: got his committee back, and Foreign Affairs Committee, I'm sorry, 806 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: he's put on Homeland Security. If the debate is over, 807 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: Ilhan Omar in Foreign Afairs, Marjorie Taylor Green is on 808 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: Home the Homeland Security Committee, which is going to investigate 809 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: and potentially impeach Alejandro Majorcas basically right away. Ghostar had 810 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: also lost his committee assignments in the last Congress and 811 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 1: has them back. Now. This is also on the heels 812 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: of news that Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobert we're 813 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: fighting in the bathroom during Kevin McCarthy's speakership battle. Let's 814 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: put that up on the screen. You can see. This 815 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: is a story. I believe that this is a story 816 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: from the Daily Beast. Yeah, the Daily Base had this 817 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: very gossipy piece of information that says, according to another 818 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 1: source familiar, well in the bathroom, Green asked Bobert, you 819 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: were okay taking millions of dollars from McCarthy, but you 820 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,399 Speaker 1: refuse to vote for him for speaker. Lauren, the first 821 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,479 Speaker 1: source said, was in a stall and then upon coming out, 822 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: confronted Bobert about taking that money, and the Colorado Republican 823 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: that's Bobert was allegedly unaware that Green was also in 824 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: the bathroom at the time, and that's when Bobert says, quote, 825 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: don't be ugly, and according to another person, out like 826 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: a little school girl. Debbie Dingle from Michigan was apparently 827 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: a witness to this event and has said she stayed 828 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 1: silent the same as Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobert, 829 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: except for adding that what happens in the ladies room 830 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 1: stays in the lady's room. I guess that's a good rule, 831 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: just sort of in general. But Ryan, the Marjorie Taylor 832 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,240 Speaker 1: Green Lauren Bobert drama played out during the speakership battle. 833 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: Margor Taylor Green supported Kevin McCarthy ends up on a 834 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: sort of plumb committee assignment. I'm sure that's very much 835 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: what she wanted. She got a slot that she wanted 836 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: Homeland Security because it's going to be a part of 837 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: this high profile investigation into the that they intend to 838 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: land on the peachment of all Hunter and Maorcis. They 839 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: have not been quiet about that. Kevin McCarthy shifted from 840 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: what he told me in an interview in September, which 841 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: is that we don't start with impeachment. You know, Democrats 842 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: made everything political. We're not going to do that, to 843 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 1: a couple months later saying, yeah, maybe peach Mayorka. So 844 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,240 Speaker 1: this is going to be a really high profile Median 845 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: narratives can be a really high profile set of hearings. 846 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 1: And Marjorie Tiller Green got it, and it looks like 847 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,760 Speaker 1: her support for McCarthy, as was expected, paid off. But Bobert, 848 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,920 Speaker 1: too right, how do you mean she's getting on the 849 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: she's getting on the Oversight Committee. And a couple of 850 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: other couple of other of the McCarthy critics and who 851 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: held his speakership up also were rewarded with seats on 852 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,920 Speaker 1: the Oversight House Oversight Committee. And it began, if you remember, 853 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: with McCarthy telling them in a private meeting, if you 854 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: come at me, I'm going to kick you off of 855 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: your committees. And one of the pieces that they negotiated 856 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,799 Speaker 1: towards the end of it was you won't retaliate against us, right, 857 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: not for this, And in fact looks like they're going 858 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,800 Speaker 1: to wind up with, you know, with some of the 859 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: Plumb Committee asignments that they that they wanted. So McCarthy 860 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: tells this story a lot that he when speaking of 861 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: the Oversight Committee when when Jim Jordan Ranford speaker and 862 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy drops out, Paul Ryan ends up speaker, Kevin 863 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: McCarthy goes to the matt for Jim Jordan going on 864 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,399 Speaker 1: oversight eventually, and McCarthy loves the story because for him, 865 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: it shows the sort of wisdom behind his strategy, which 866 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: is you give everyone a seat at the table. And 867 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: he thinks of it in terms of, at least he 868 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: said in an interview with me Moneyball, which is kind 869 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: of interesting, but he thinks of it in terms of 870 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: that you got all these great players, how do you 871 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: make them work together? This I mean, he told me. 872 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,399 Speaker 1: And he wants to give people a seat at the table, 873 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 1: make them feel heard. He meets with the Freedom Coccus people, 874 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: he meets with the establishment you people, and makes them 875 00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: feel heard. And so it's fascinating. Your point about Bobert 876 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: getting sort of rewarded too despite not being an ally 877 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: of his, is that clearly what he's trying to do 878 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,399 Speaker 1: is make those build bridges right, build bridges so that 879 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: when he needs the leverage to say we are not 880 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: doing this debt ceiling thing over X, Y and Z, 881 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,800 Speaker 1: they have a relationship, an existing relationship, and the ability 882 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: to have those conversations and to do those negotiations. Now, 883 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's going to work out for him. 884 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 1: Maybe it makes sense and the sort of cost benefit 885 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: sense to try, but I think that's probably what his 886 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: idea is, like, these people do not want to get 887 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 1: on board with me, so I'm going to, you know, 888 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: sort of kill him with kindness in that sense. Yeah, 889 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,600 Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, Right, And he got the thing that 890 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: he wanted, which is to be speaker, right, and he's 891 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: going to get this thing that he also probably wants 892 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,240 Speaker 1: a little bit of a showdown, the debt ceiling, which 893 00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: we could talk about next. We got Alexander Hamilton. Let's 894 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: talk about Alexander Hamilton. Help explain this. Why wouldn't we 895 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: It's a Wednesday in January. Why not talk about Alexander Hamilton? Ryan, 896 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,799 Speaker 1: this is your point for today, although we're sort of 897 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,560 Speaker 1: gonna yes, this is this is my point for today. 898 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: And so let's throw old Alexander Hamilton up there. And 899 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: because everybody knows they ought to read the Federalist papers, 900 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: right like, we all know that. Yeah, but it's not 901 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: we'll get to it eventually. But today we're gonna we're 902 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,480 Speaker 1: gonna help people ACTU. We're gonna read a little bit 903 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: of Federalist papers, number thirty. So Alexander Hamilton, who wrote 904 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: almost all of the Federalist papers, it was supposed to 905 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: be a joint project. The other guys just didn't do 906 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,320 Speaker 1: their assignments, didn't didn't turn their work in. He also 907 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: was the first Treasury Secretary, and so you know his 908 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: views on the debt ceiling are important, not you know, 909 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: as both the treasure first Treasury Secretary and also as 910 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,279 Speaker 1: one of the framers of the Contentstitution. And so we 911 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: put up number, you put up Federalist number thirty. Unred. 912 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: Just read a couple of excerpts from this and get 913 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: your take to see if there is any ambiguity here 914 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: about whether or not the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. That's 915 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,799 Speaker 1: my take that there is There really can be no 916 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 1: such thing as a debt ceiling given our constitution, in 917 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: our framework. And so Hamilton writes, the federal government quote 918 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 1: must embrace a provision for the support of the national 919 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 1: civil list, for the payment of the national debts contracted 920 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: or that may be contracted, and in general, for all 921 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,560 Speaker 1: those matters which we'll call for disbursements out of the 922 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 1: national treasury money is, he says, with propriety considered as 923 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,719 Speaker 1: the vital principle of the body politic, as that which 924 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: sustains its life and motion and enables it to perform 925 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,600 Speaker 1: its most essential functions. A complete power, therefore, to procure 926 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: a regular and adequate supply of it, as far as 927 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,800 Speaker 1: the resources of the community will permit, may be regarded 928 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: as an indispensable ingredient in every constitution. From a deficiency 929 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,439 Speaker 1: in this particular, one of two evils must ensue. Either 930 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,719 Speaker 1: the people must be subjected to continual plunder as a 931 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: substitute for a more eligible mode of supplying the public 932 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 1: once or the government must sink into a fatal atrophy 933 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,399 Speaker 1: and in a short course of time perish. So from 934 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,280 Speaker 1: there he goes on and he talks about, Okay, imagine 935 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,320 Speaker 1: that you're not allowing the government to have any access, 936 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,720 Speaker 1: any significant access to resources. What happens when a war comes? 937 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,760 Speaker 1: So he writes, to imagine that at such a crisis, 938 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,399 Speaker 1: credit might be dispensed with would be the extreme of infatuation. 939 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: In the modern system of war nations, the most wealthy 940 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,840 Speaker 1: are obliged to have recourse to large loans. A country 941 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 1: so little opulent as ours must feel this necessity in 942 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: a much stronger degree. But who would lend to a 943 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: government that prefaced its overtures by for borrowing by an 944 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,799 Speaker 1: act which demonstrated that no reliance could be placed on 945 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: the steadiness of its measures for paying. What he's so 946 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: way to saying there is that if you default on 947 00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,919 Speaker 1: your loans, who's going to give you more money? What 948 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,960 Speaker 1: kind of a country could you be if people don't 949 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,560 Speaker 1: trust your word, Like, if you're setting your economic foundation 950 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: on the idea that at any moment you could just 951 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: decide for some political reasons that you're not going to 952 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,960 Speaker 1: pay back your debt, then you're going to You're going 953 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,439 Speaker 1: to be cast out basically of the international scene. And 954 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: the way he puts it is quote the loans it 955 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: might be able to procure would be as limited in 956 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,880 Speaker 1: their extent as burdensome in their conditions. They would be 957 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,400 Speaker 1: made upon the same principles that users commonly lend to 958 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 1: bankrupt and fraudulent debtors with a sparing hand at enormous premiums. 959 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,360 Speaker 1: So what he's saying is like, you're not going to 960 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: get rid of debt. The United States is still going 961 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: to borrow. But what it's going to do is it's 962 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,279 Speaker 1: going to go out and borrow and people go like, okay, 963 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,440 Speaker 1: how's twenty five percent sound? And then that creates a cycle. 964 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,319 Speaker 1: Then because all of that, that's actually a cycle that 965 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: HATI itself in because of the way that that France 966 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,720 Speaker 1: basically came back at them that all of their revenue, 967 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: so something like three quarters at some point of their 968 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: of their revenue was just going off the island to 969 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,120 Speaker 1: their creditors. And so when you do that, then you 970 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,720 Speaker 1: don't have anything to invest in developing your own country. 971 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: And so it seems pretty clear just from that, and 972 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,120 Speaker 1: there's a little bit more we could get into. Seems 973 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,080 Speaker 1: pretty clear from that that Hamilton, the designer, you know, 974 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,080 Speaker 1: one of the designers of the Constitution and the first 975 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary, would would scoff at the idea of a 976 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: debt ceiling that you could just that Congress could just say, 977 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: you know what, we have appropriated money lawfully, but we 978 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,879 Speaker 1: are going to then separately say that you can't come 979 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,800 Speaker 1: up with the money in order to cover the appropriations 980 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,359 Speaker 1: that we lawfully created. Hamilton, Like, that's no, there's no, 981 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,359 Speaker 1: We're not running a government that way. That's not like that. 982 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: That's a joke. We're not doing that. And the argument 983 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,640 Speaker 1: from the right would be the debt selling was sort 984 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: of lawfully constitutionally imposed through the system of government. And 985 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,280 Speaker 1: what you're saying, though, I think raises a question of 986 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,279 Speaker 1: the fourteenth Amendment, which was a huge debate over the 987 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,239 Speaker 1: course of the Obama administration. Bill Clinton, actually it was 988 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,360 Speaker 1: a debate in the Clinton administration. Clinton said, Hey, I 989 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,640 Speaker 1: actually think I've talked to my lawyers. I think this 990 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,160 Speaker 1: blow right through it. Actually we have that. Can you 991 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,080 Speaker 1: put up the final element? Yeah, there you go. The 992 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,360 Speaker 1: validity of the public debt of the United States shall 993 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 1: not be questioned. That's the key part of it. Shall. 994 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 1: Everybody who's into government will tell you the difference between 995 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, shall and any other work like shall is 996 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,680 Speaker 1: the strongest word that you can write into law. It's 997 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,480 Speaker 1: like that's it, Like this is it? This is how 998 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: it shall be right or how it shall not be 999 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,120 Speaker 1: So what do you do with that, if you're the Republicans, 1000 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:56,600 Speaker 1: the vality of the public dad of the United States 1001 00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,440 Speaker 1: shall not be questioned. So then is the debt ceiling 1002 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:08,200 Speaker 1: of speaking of American pessimism? What's your point today? It's 1003 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,319 Speaker 1: exactly that it's about American pessimism. And this is a 1004 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,520 Speaker 1: basically Ryan and I are going to be doing something 1005 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,280 Speaker 1: a little less scripted as we go. We go forward 1006 00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,120 Speaker 1: with the monologues, maybe on a weekly basis, maybe sometimes 1007 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,759 Speaker 1: we'll write it all out, but just so that we 1008 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,719 Speaker 1: can kind of talk through some of these issues in 1009 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: a more free flowing way. I want to talk about 1010 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: David Brooks's recent essay in The Atlantic in which he's 1011 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,120 Speaker 1: basically saying, if Americans feel pessimistic, they're wrong. This pessimism 1012 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,600 Speaker 1: that has descended upon the American population is unwarranted, and 1013 00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,080 Speaker 1: he gives a few reasons for that. First, he says 1014 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:45,239 Speaker 1: it's a historical. He says, quote, the first problem with 1015 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,600 Speaker 1: all this pessimism is that it's a historical. Every era 1016 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,839 Speaker 1: in American history has faced its own massive challenges, and 1017 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 1: in every era the air has been thick with gloomy. 1018 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: Jeremiah's warning of catastrophe and decline pick any decade in 1019 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,640 Speaker 1: the history of this country, and you will find roiling 1020 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 1: turmoil all all those same decades, you will also find, 1021 00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:06,839 Speaker 1: alongside the chaos and prophecies of doom, energetic dynamism and 1022 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,120 Speaker 1: leaping progress. Of course, this is true that you will 1023 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,719 Speaker 1: always find these things alongside each other in the United 1024 00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: States of America. He then goes on to cite a 1025 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,080 Speaker 1: Gallop poll where seventeen percent of Americans said that America 1026 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 1: was on the right track in today versus sixty nine 1027 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 1: percent in two thousand. Think about that personal satisfaction in 1028 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,680 Speaker 1: the meantime. David Brooks points out your satisfaction with your 1029 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,960 Speaker 1: personal life that stayed pretty stable in the mid eighties. 1030 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: About eighty five percent of people say that they're personally 1031 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: satisfied with their own life. So where satisfaction with the 1032 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: direction of the country plummets from sixty nine to seventeen percent, 1033 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,720 Speaker 1: you have people remaining relatively satisfied with their own lives. Well, 1034 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,360 Speaker 1: here's an important counterpoint to that, No pun intended. Arthur 1035 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 1: Brooks has written about the General Social Survey. He's also 1036 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 1: written about this in The Atlantic. He calls this one 1037 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 1: of the greatest paradoxes of our time. All of this 1038 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,360 Speaker 1: that David Brooks rolls out on these reasons for American 1039 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,120 Speaker 1: optimism and dynamism, et cetera. Many of them are correct, 1040 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: not all of them are correct. Many of them are correct, 1041 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: But Arthur Brooks points out that one of the biggest 1042 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,680 Speaker 1: paradoxes is that as our material comforts have increased, our 1043 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: happiness has decreased. And a great source to look for 1044 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: this is at the General Social Survey, which has been 1045 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,720 Speaker 1: tracking American happiness for a very long time, and Brooks 1046 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: points out that a long term, gradual decline in happiness. 1047 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 1: So this rise in unhappiness, both the decline in happiness 1048 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,520 Speaker 1: and a rise in unhappiness, you can find in the 1049 00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: General Social Survey from nineteen eighty eight to the present. 1050 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:43,120 Speaker 1: So why on earth would that be happening alongside all 1051 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,000 Speaker 1: of these these trends and rising material happinesses. And I 1052 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 1: think that's really where David Brooks is missing the point. 1053 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,400 Speaker 1: He's saying that this is distorting reality. This is the 1054 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: second point that he makes, that the pessimism is unwarranted 1055 00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 1: because things aren't all that bad. Well, first, of course, 1056 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,000 Speaker 1: on the ahistorical point, maybe people are pessimistic because they're 1057 00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,440 Speaker 1: less happy. Maybe they have all of these material comforts 1058 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,480 Speaker 1: and they're not making people happy. Therefore their pessimism is warranted. 1059 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,560 Speaker 1: Now is it a distortion? Things are actually okay? This 1060 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,600 Speaker 1: is what he says. The second problem with the decline 1061 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,760 Speaker 1: narrative is that it distorts reality. He goes on to say, 1062 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm no Pollyanna. I basically think though that 1063 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,480 Speaker 1: America today is objectively better than it was before, but 1064 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,280 Speaker 1: subjectively worse. Objectively better, but subjectively worse. So this isn't 1065 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,680 Speaker 1: the fault of the system. It's your fault for blaming 1066 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,880 Speaker 1: the system. When everything is good, he says, we have 1067 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,400 Speaker 1: much higher standards of living in many conveniences, but when 1068 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,160 Speaker 1: it comes to how we relate to one another, whether 1069 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,360 Speaker 1: in the realm of politics, across social divides, or in 1070 00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,520 Speaker 1: the intimacies of family and community life, distrust is rife, 1071 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,000 Speaker 1: bonds are fraying, and judgments are harsh. But that doesn't 1072 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: mean the future isn't going to be brighter than the present, 1073 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: or that America is in decline. The pessimist miss and 1074 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,920 Speaker 1: underlying truth. The society can get a lot wrong as 1075 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,320 Speaker 1: long as it gets the big thing right. Thing is 1076 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,080 Speaker 1: This is if a society is good at unlocking creativity, 1077 01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 1: at nurturing the abilities of its people, then its ills 1078 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,919 Speaker 1: can be surmounted. He talks about how it's so much 1079 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,600 Speaker 1: easier to get water now than it was when you 1080 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,880 Speaker 1: had to go. You just get it out of the 1081 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,600 Speaker 1: tap now as opposed to go getting it out of 1082 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: the well. Productivity is up, the price and quality of 1083 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: education compared to others in the world is up. Long 1084 01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: term longevity trends are good, which I don't think is 1085 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: necessarily true. We have innovation infrastructure, we have small businesses booming, 1086 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,840 Speaker 1: we have carbon emissions down, economic expansion, cheaper goods and 1087 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,240 Speaker 1: a small surge and manufacturing. This is ridiculous because he's 1088 01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: cherry picking statistics that distort reality, right, Like you can 1089 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,640 Speaker 1: cherry pick statistics that show decline or an increase, or 1090 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,760 Speaker 1: the fortunes of America sort of increasing, but that's really 1091 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: not what's happening. Because I think the better statistics to 1092 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,920 Speaker 1: look at is you have a reversal of life expectancy 1093 01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,360 Speaker 1: at birth and mortality about twenty five years in the past. 1094 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 1: We're like basically around the mid to late nineties on 1095 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,880 Speaker 1: both of those measures. That has not happened. You saw 1096 01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 1: a dip in that when you had the the after 1097 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: World War One and with the flu epidemic, the flu 1098 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:18,720 Speaker 1: pandemic in the late nineteen tens and nineteen around nineteen twenty, 1099 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,120 Speaker 1: that did happen. Then it didn't last that long. It 1100 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: started to tick back upwards. But what we're seeing right 1101 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: now is a huge drop. And it is not distorting 1102 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,320 Speaker 1: reality to be pessimistic about that. It's not distorting reality 1103 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,120 Speaker 1: to look at happiness dipping. It's not distorting reality to say, 1104 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 1: adult in childhood obesity rates have doubled in thirty years. 1105 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,280 Speaker 1: How much of our health and happiness is connected to that. 1106 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,840 Speaker 1: Things like heart disease, things like cancer, All of those 1107 01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,160 Speaker 1: things are directly, in many ways connected to those surging rates. 1108 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,160 Speaker 1: We're talking about doubling in just thirty years. We're talking 1109 01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,000 Speaker 1: about rising loneliness, rising addiction on some counts, failing rates 1110 01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,520 Speaker 1: in marriage, births, religiosity. All of those things are associated 1111 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 1: in the United States with happiness. So it makes sense 1112 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,840 Speaker 1: that as those have declined, happiness has declined. And David 1113 01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:10,280 Speaker 1: Brooks says, you're distorting reality. The system is fine, it's you. 1114 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,400 Speaker 1: The problem is with so he thinks it's top down, 1115 01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,600 Speaker 1: that it's not bottom up. And this is also just 1116 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: totally conflating two different arguments, right, that reality can be 1117 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,000 Speaker 1: trending bad, but you can still have reason for optimism, 1118 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,480 Speaker 1: and he's saying those things are mutually exclusive. But those 1119 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,800 Speaker 1: are different arguments, right, things can be bad and you 1120 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,800 Speaker 1: can still have reason for optimism, as I think we 1121 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,960 Speaker 1: have probably more reason for optimism in this country than 1122 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,160 Speaker 1: in many other countries because we do still at present 1123 01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 1: have the freedoms I think to correct the system. But 1124 01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:44,800 Speaker 1: because we have the freedoms to correct the system doesn't 1125 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,600 Speaker 1: mean the system isn't broken, and it doesn't mean the 1126 01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,120 Speaker 1: system hasn't failed, and that people are right to be 1127 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,320 Speaker 1: pessimistic about that. And that's what he totally totally misses. 1128 01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,600 Speaker 1: And this is the elite myopia, right that if you're 1129 01:02:56,040 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 1: experiencing hyper novelty as all of us are, the hacker 1130 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: that you all know as Guccifer, his real name is 1131 01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 1: Marcel LeVar, was recently released from a Pennsylvania prison after 1132 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 1: serving time for his various various legendary exploits. He's now 1133 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,400 Speaker 1: back in Romania, where he had launched his hacking career 1134 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,440 Speaker 1: and was interviewed by my colleague at the Intercept, Sam Biddle. 1135 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: Sam joins us now to tell us more about Marcel. Sam, 1136 01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us, my pleasure. And so 1137 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:37,000 Speaker 1: back when you were at Gawker, Guchifer, So, how did 1138 01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: Guchiffer get in touch with with you and with Gawker 1139 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:42,800 Speaker 1: back then? Was there like an open tip line that 1140 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:44,840 Speaker 1: was your email public? Like? What was and what was 1141 01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,880 Speaker 1: your interaction with him? Were you going back and forth 1142 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,200 Speaker 1: back then with him? And then I want to get 1143 01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,880 Speaker 1: into who he is for people who don't remember. Sure, 1144 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's funny you mentioned that because when 1145 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,960 Speaker 1: I was interviewing him, when I was finally speaking with 1146 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,160 Speaker 1: him on the phone after all these years, he said 1147 01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:05,360 Speaker 1: that he had the hardest time getting anyone in the 1148 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:11,560 Speaker 1: media to notice him, to respond to any of his 1149 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,320 Speaker 1: uh messages at all for a really long time. He 1150 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,160 Speaker 1: said he was basically just like spamming not just Gocker, 1151 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:24,040 Speaker 1: but the New York Times, Washington Posts, the Guardian, every 1152 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,800 Speaker 1: outlet he could find in the English speaking world and beyond. 1153 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,000 Speaker 1: And he just said that no one, no one cared, 1154 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 1: but yeah he would. He would send updates to Gawker 1155 01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: and The Smoking Gun were his two favorite outlets, probably 1156 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:46,520 Speaker 1: because we because you actually spot such a throwback refreshing 1157 01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,640 Speaker 1: Gawker and the Smoking Gun back in two thousand and nine. Yeah, 1158 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,040 Speaker 1: what were his messages like? Were they did? They looked 1159 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: arranged in all caps and that sort of thing. Or 1160 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,520 Speaker 1: he would always they would always start with which I 1161 01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,560 Speaker 1: found to be very catchally with guccifer transmitting dot dot 1162 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,960 Speaker 1: dot dot dog, which always which was like, you know, 1163 01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,520 Speaker 1: much like the name itself, just I think, a sort 1164 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:13,160 Speaker 1: of stroke of self branding brilliance. But it was always 1165 01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:17,680 Speaker 1: very crude and sort of di y and that like 1166 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,720 Speaker 1: the images he would share, which he stole a lot 1167 01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:26,240 Speaker 1: of people's email accounts, you know, he watermarked them himself 1168 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,760 Speaker 1: with this very crudely done sort of looks like he 1169 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:33,040 Speaker 1: had been done in Microsoft paint. He would sign the images, 1170 01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,320 Speaker 1: I think, often with the spray paint can tool, just 1171 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,200 Speaker 1: saying guccifer. So you know, this did not have the 1172 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:43,280 Speaker 1: trappings of like a sophisticated intelligence operation, which of course 1173 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,919 Speaker 1: it was not. It was just a guy. And that's 1174 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,960 Speaker 1: what I'm glad Ryan asked about the Gawker thing, is 1175 01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,400 Speaker 1: that's one of the things I picked up in this interview, 1176 01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,240 Speaker 1: which is not just an excellent interview but excellently written. 1177 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,680 Speaker 1: It's so interesting, and the arc of this ban from 1178 01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,640 Speaker 1: from someone who's sending ostensibly weird email else to Gawker, 1179 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,640 Speaker 1: to someone who had a huge influence just from his 1180 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,360 Speaker 1: computer guessing passwords is incredible. So, Sam, if you could 1181 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:11,000 Speaker 1: catch people up on the O G. Guchifer, this is 1182 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,200 Speaker 1: not Guchi for two point zero. This is a very 1183 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: different situation than how it I guess how it became, 1184 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: how it evolved over the years. What's his backstory and 1185 01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: what did you learn when sort of reconnecting with him 1186 01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,080 Speaker 1: after all of these years and after all these changes 1187 01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 1: in American and world politics. Absolutely. Yeah. So he was 1188 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:39,400 Speaker 1: a taxi driver in Romania in a city called a Rod, 1189 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 1: which is about the size of Syracuse, sort of industrial town. 1190 01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:51,040 Speaker 1: He has no technical training whatsoever, sort of just a 1191 01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:56,440 Speaker 1: computer amateur. But he was fascinated by and remains fascinated 1192 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,640 Speaker 1: by American politics and American the power culture of the 1193 01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,560 Speaker 1: American elite. So he literally just started reading their Wikipedia 1194 01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,040 Speaker 1: entries and guessing their passwords. He had had a string 1195 01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:14,320 Speaker 1: of account break ins with some Romanian political figures, but 1196 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, he started branching out significantly significantly to 1197 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,800 Speaker 1: the US and had an incredible string of I think 1198 01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:31,880 Speaker 1: something like one hundred different targets victims and who's mostly 1199 01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:38,200 Speaker 1: AOL and Yahoo accounts he broke into. He was masterful 1200 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:42,880 Speaker 1: and identifying people who were sort of adjacent to power, 1201 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:49,800 Speaker 1: like Dorothy Cooke Busch, sister of George W. Bush. That's 1202 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,240 Speaker 1: how we got the incredible George Bush oil paintings that 1203 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:59,040 Speaker 1: became a sensation and I think really unprecedented look into 1204 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,840 Speaker 1: a former it in Psyche. And you know, he also 1205 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:07,480 Speaker 1: perhaps most famously, broke into the email of Sidney Blumenthal, 1206 01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,040 Speaker 1: a longtime Clinton advisor, which is how he I think 1207 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,880 Speaker 1: inadvertently revealed the fact that she had a private email account. 1208 01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,800 Speaker 1: But you know, oh sorry, yeah, did he know that 1209 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:22,280 Speaker 1: at the time, because it's it's fascinating how that came out. 1210 01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:26,120 Speaker 1: So Sidney Blumenthal basically was emailing with an account I 1211 01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,960 Speaker 1: don't remember it exactly, something like HDR twenty two ye 1212 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,679 Speaker 1: or something like that Clinton a Clinton email or whatever. 1213 01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:37,040 Speaker 1: You know, Basically it alerted the world to the fact that, 1214 01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,920 Speaker 1: oh wait, Hillary Clinton has this personal email and then 1215 01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:44,480 Speaker 1: more importantly has this private server Clinton email dot com. 1216 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: So what else is on that did he did he 1217 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,080 Speaker 1: notice that or was that just in the dump that 1218 01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: was sent to you guys and then and then it 1219 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:56,960 Speaker 1: was just figured out subsequently. So he had shared a 1220 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,040 Speaker 1: cash of emails with Gawker and and you know, and 1221 01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,320 Speaker 1: also published served up on the internet. It wasn't just 1222 01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:09,439 Speaker 1: it wasn't exclusive to us. Uh, you know, I don't 1223 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,479 Speaker 1: believe that he highlighted the fact of the of the 1224 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:20,160 Speaker 1: email in that initial outreach. I think that, you know, 1225 01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,880 Speaker 1: the emphasis at the time was here are messages from 1226 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:31,519 Speaker 1: you know, a close Clinton confidant, associated uh advisor. But 1227 01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't think that the existence, you know, it was 1228 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,880 Speaker 1: supposedly about the substance of the messages, not the sort 1229 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: of metadata as it were that included her her contact 1230 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,280 Speaker 1: for private contact. Well, and one of the interesting things 1231 01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,240 Speaker 1: you picked up on in in your piece is that 1232 01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,479 Speaker 1: there's this he obviously always had this kind of quest 1233 01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,960 Speaker 1: for notoriety, but he also kind of wants to be 1234 01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:57,040 Speaker 1: able to to be a private person and to i 1235 01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:01,479 Speaker 1: don't know, absolve himself of of wrongdoing. And he admits 1236 01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,160 Speaker 1: that it was wrong to you know, and get into 1237 01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:06,599 Speaker 1: people's property without authorization, et cetera, et cetera. But Sam, 1238 01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,559 Speaker 1: how is he reckoning with going from a dude who's 1239 01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:15,639 Speaker 1: guessing people's passwords to somebody who absolutely reshaped the world 1240 01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,559 Speaker 1: from behind his laptop. Basically, I think he's conflicted about it, 1241 01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,880 Speaker 1: which I think probably most people would be. I credit 1242 01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:32,120 Speaker 1: him for being sort of transparently an authentically self contradictory 1243 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,639 Speaker 1: about it, right, Like he is, in a sense trying 1244 01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,640 Speaker 1: to have it seemed like he was trying to have 1245 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,000 Speaker 1: it both ways. You would, you know, sometimes act contrite 1246 01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:45,560 Speaker 1: and then boastfull. And he also, you know, repeatedly downplayed 1247 01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 1: his influence on recent history and then would take credit 1248 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,280 Speaker 1: for things. I think that going to prison in the 1249 01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,240 Speaker 1: United States for four years, over four years is a 1250 01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, generally horrible experience, and to go through that 1251 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 1: as a foreigner probably even more difficult. I think he 1252 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,240 Speaker 1: is now. He seems sort of discombobulated now back in 1253 01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:20,559 Speaker 1: Romania with his family that he spent eight years away from. 1254 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,640 Speaker 1: I mean, his daughter grew up without him because he 1255 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,280 Speaker 1: spent a prison term in Romania and was an extradited 1256 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,120 Speaker 1: to the US. So he's been behind bars in one 1257 01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:31,600 Speaker 1: country another for a long time, and I think that 1258 01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,000 Speaker 1: experience of just suddenly being back with this family that 1259 01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,400 Speaker 1: you had been pulled away from for eight years is 1260 01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:44,120 Speaker 1: a really is a really devastating one. So, you know, 1261 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,120 Speaker 1: it seemed to me like he was trying to sort 1262 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,400 Speaker 1: of air on the side of being normal again, just 1263 01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,599 Speaker 1: being a nobody again. You know, if I can play 1264 01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,120 Speaker 1: sort of armchair psychologist, I might say that's sort of 1265 01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,120 Speaker 1: under That seemed understandable to me after what he had 1266 01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,679 Speaker 1: been through. He talked a little bit about his motive 1267 01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,599 Speaker 1: to you looking at you know, it involved the Iraq 1268 01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:11,160 Speaker 1: War and an American decline and the Bush administration. Talk 1269 01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about why he originally did this and 1270 01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,880 Speaker 1: how he viewed now how he views his motive. Sure, 1271 01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,719 Speaker 1: so you know, it's it's interesting because when he first 1272 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,560 Speaker 1: was reaching out to us at at when he was 1273 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,920 Speaker 1: reaching out to Gawker and other outlets, his emails were 1274 01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,920 Speaker 1: in terms of any kind of motive or ideology kind 1275 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,000 Speaker 1: of incoherent. It was a lot of references to like 1276 01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:42,960 Speaker 1: really really worn out conspiracy theories, like you know about 1277 01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,519 Speaker 1: the Illuminati for example, and Blake. It was just sort 1278 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:51,120 Speaker 1: of like throwback stuff. Uh and and you know, sort 1279 01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,639 Speaker 1: of our heart to take seriously. But ten years later, 1280 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,679 Speaker 1: you know, like I say in the piece, he's still 1281 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,960 Speaker 1: is in a sense of conspiracy theorists, and that he 1282 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:05,400 Speaker 1: thinks there is an elite pulling the strings behind the scenes, 1283 01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,799 Speaker 1: but not in a way that is you know, kooky, 1284 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: the way Illuminati stuff is. Yeah, you knows, as you mentioned. 1285 01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,439 Speaker 1: He he says now that what he was trying to 1286 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:21,640 Speaker 1: do all along was look for, essentially evidence of systemic 1287 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:26,960 Speaker 1: corruption among the American elite. And he says that that's 1288 01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,080 Speaker 1: why he broke into the email of Colon pow and 1289 01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:35,000 Speaker 1: z that he Bluemanthal and Bushes and people who were 1290 01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:42,120 Speaker 1: famous in entertainment and and and so forth. He thought 1291 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,639 Speaker 1: that watching from Romania, that the United States had lost 1292 01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:52,360 Speaker 1: its way. He described admiring the US deeply as a 1293 01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:57,679 Speaker 1: Romanian living under under communism, and that you talked about 1294 01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:59,640 Speaker 1: looking to the US for guidance, and then in the 1295 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:03,960 Speaker 1: twenty first century seeing the US as something no longer 1296 01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,880 Speaker 1: to be admired, as a country that had sort of 1297 01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,120 Speaker 1: lost his way, and he thought he would find an 1298 01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,280 Speaker 1: explanation for what you call American decline. But I, you know, 1299 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:14,880 Speaker 1: I think is the right term for that too in 1300 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:18,679 Speaker 1: these emails, and he said, you know, he said openly 1301 01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:20,040 Speaker 1: on the phone, and he said, it was a failure. 1302 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:21,760 Speaker 1: I never found what I was looking for. But that's 1303 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,880 Speaker 1: what he says today was motivating him back then. Such 1304 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,320 Speaker 1: a great line at the end of the piece where 1305 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,960 Speaker 1: you say Lazar is a conspiracy theorist. It seems in 1306 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:34,439 Speaker 1: the same way everyone became after twenty sixteen, I mean 1307 01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,080 Speaker 1: helped to build the time I think, so, I mean, 1308 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,519 Speaker 1: it's it's it's incredible the extent to which he has. 1309 01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,640 Speaker 1: He said that he spent a ton of time in 1310 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,439 Speaker 1: prison reading. But the books he was reading that I 1311 01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,960 Speaker 1: note in the piece are like these sort of memoirs 1312 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:58,280 Speaker 1: of the deep status. Yeah, yeah, right, like the autobiographies 1313 01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:03,000 Speaker 1: of like Spy Agency, the Chiefs and like Mueller Report, 1314 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:07,439 Speaker 1: uh Cinematic Universe people and like it was it was. 1315 01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,720 Speaker 1: These were all sort of like airport politics books that 1316 01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,439 Speaker 1: he was just guzzling in prison. And as a result, 1317 01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, he he sounds like someone who has been 1318 01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:22,559 Speaker 1: watching CNN or MSNBC or Fox for the past uh well, 1319 01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:24,559 Speaker 1: probably less Fox, but you know, someone someone who's been 1320 01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:30,040 Speaker 1: watching uh Trump Russia coverage obsessively and like tweeting about 1321 01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,000 Speaker 1: it for for years and years. Of course he wasn't 1322 01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,720 Speaker 1: he was in he was in prison, but you know, 1323 01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,040 Speaker 1: he he, he has sort of taken on this mode 1324 01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:41,600 Speaker 1: that I think, uh has become super popular in the 1325 01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:48,040 Speaker 1: US of you know, of believing in these great political 1326 01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,240 Speaker 1: conspiracies and you know, and as we've seen over the 1327 01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,320 Speaker 1: past several years, those often end up being, you know, 1328 01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,040 Speaker 1: if not as true as they were supposed to be 1329 01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:59,040 Speaker 1: at first, you know, having elements of truth in them. 1330 01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,400 Speaker 1: And one takeaway from story I think is that if 1331 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,000 Speaker 1: your elementary school is on your Wikipedia page, don't make 1332 01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,679 Speaker 1: that one of the answers to your femail recovery question. Yes, 1333 01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,360 Speaker 1: as you said in the piece, he was using email 1334 01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,720 Speaker 1: recovery questions of these super famous people as a way 1335 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,639 Speaker 1: to hack into their their emails. So if it's publicly 1336 01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,040 Speaker 1: findable information, pro tip right there, I'm going to check 1337 01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:27,320 Speaker 1: your factor a good factory. Sam, Thank you so much, 1338 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,599 Speaker 1: my pleasure, Thanks for having me. Well, Ryan, we started 1339 01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,080 Speaker 1: the show with Davos, and we're ending on this note 1340 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,920 Speaker 1: about Guccifer and how he was able to guess the 1341 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,320 Speaker 1: passwords of sort of the Davos set and change the 1342 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,040 Speaker 1: course of world politics by doing that behind his laptop screen. 1343 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:45,960 Speaker 1: In Romania, he got locked up for years, he comes 1344 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,920 Speaker 1: back out, and what we've seen transpire in the year 1345 01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,160 Speaker 1: since is the sort of desperate clinging to power. And 1346 01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,679 Speaker 1: that was some sort of a theme of today's show. 1347 01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,120 Speaker 1: I think that's fair, actually coherent show. How about that 1348 01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,320 Speaker 1: actually go here and show. Yeah, we can tie it 1349 01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:06,599 Speaker 1: all together. Yeah, don't get used to that. But we'll 1350 01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,000 Speaker 1: see you back here next week Wednesday. As as you 1351 01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:12,880 Speaker 1: can tell, we're here on Wednesdays. These days Wednesday. It's 1352 01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:14,880 Speaker 1: good to be here on Wednesdays. There's so much, so 1353 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,920 Speaker 1: much news. So we'll see you then, see you later