1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: This is serendipitous for us. We recently dove into a 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: question that's on a lot of people's minds, why do 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: CEOs make so much money? And we absolutely had to 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: return to some of our past work. Uh, you know, 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: we've talked about the middle class, whether it's going extinct, 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: but we also wanted to bring this one back up. 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: This is our episode on the future of poverty. Do 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: you guys remember this one? And when we recorded this 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: in we were fifteen years away from that World Bank's 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: prediction that a hundred million people would be put into 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: poverty because of climate change. Now we're only eight years 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: away now, guys, TikTok TikTok, TikTok, TikTok TikTok. Well, let's 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: let's jump in. Let's find out you know, what the 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: World Bank was talking about and if there's any stand 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: to it and what lies ahead for all of us 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: from UFOs two ghosts and government cover ups, histories writted 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, welcome 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt and Ben 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: and as always we are here with Gosh No the 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: nick nickname got so long last time we were podcast 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: and remember did yeah we had we had this thing 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: where we would need trumpets and then we would need somebody. 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Oh that was there was going to be a minstrel 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: with the carpet of some sort. You think it was awesome, town, 26 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: Noel Brown. I think we can dispense with the nicknames 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: if you want. I mean, it's okay if if if 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: something comes up and it's meaningful but don't feel then 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: you don't have to do it, you know. Well, yeah, 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's a weird psychological thing, right. It's 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: always fun to do something when you don't have to. 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: And when you were a kid, did you ever want 33 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: to mow the lawn and then you eventually had to 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: mow the lawn? Was that just me? No, that's YouTube? Yeah, Okay, 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: you used to what I'm saying. Well, we're talking about 36 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: happiness in a way. So there's a very interesting thing 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: that happens with happiness. There's a there's a comparative factor 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: to happiness, and it's very strange. If some you could 39 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: have two people write two people one is a guy 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: making thirty grand a year doing whatever he does. Give 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: him a fake job. What to do? He's a lawnmower 42 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: and uh, one who mows lawns. Yeah, he's a lawnmower 43 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: man and he makes thirty thousand dollars a year if 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: everybody else and is oh, and there's this other person. Uh, 45 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: she makes fifty thou dollars a year. What does she 46 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: do now? She makes pocas? Okay, she makes a lot 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: of money. Oh kay. So we've got this podcaster lady 48 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: making fifty year and this lawnmower guy making thirty. If 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: all of the other people at the lawnmowing company make 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: like twenty five or even twenty eight thousand dollars, this 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: guy is the king of the man outain. He is 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: thrilled to be alive. Things taste sweeter. How do you 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: find find out what everybody else makes? Let's just say 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: that for the sake of ok but if the lady 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: making fifty thou dollars of the podcasting thing finds out 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: that her co workers are making you know, fifty five thousand, 57 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: right or fifty three even, then she is going to 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: be miserable and unhappy. And that's because for a great 59 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: deal of the human species, happiness is so comparative and 60 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: there are other studies about there are other studies about 61 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: whether money makes you happy, whether it really buys happiness. 62 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: It turns out that that's true up to a certain point, 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: uh in the u s at least, and then after 64 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter as much. I mean, what you're 65 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: describing to me is I've always thought of it sort 66 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: of like that grass is always greener kind of mentality, 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, sort of like you look at what do 68 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: the people have keeping up with the Joneses or the 69 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: Smiths or whatever the American last name you'd like to 70 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: use for this analogy, and um, you know, I'm unguilty 71 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: of it, but you definitely have to, like, it's a 72 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: good thing to keep in check, keep yourself in check 73 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: over because it's very easy to like start coveting what 74 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: other people have when you realize at the end of 75 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: the day that it wouldn't necessarily make you happier if 76 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 1: you had it. That's a great that's a great point, 77 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: because that comparative stuff works a couple of different ways. Listeners, 78 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: you probably have had the same experience that almost every 79 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: kid has growing up in the West, where someone one 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: a parent or an authority figure says you know, we'll 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: think of the people who have less than you two 82 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: or someone says, uh, you know, it could be worse, 83 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: which my mother used to say all the time, and 84 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: I just hated it because it can be worse doesn't 85 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: make anything, It doesn't change anything. It could be worse. 86 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: Is just like also, you shouldn't be upset about these 87 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: horrible things. And and it's strange because when we think 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: about our unhappiness or problems in relation to the larger 89 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: field of humanity, we have, um, we have such a disconnect, 90 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, Like we we were talking about this briefly 91 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: off air, and I think you alluded to it. No, 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: what's the what? What what's the what are the problems? 93 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were just discussing problems that we're having 94 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: in our daily lives right now. My my main one 95 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: is that my kid poops on me occasionally us gross. 96 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: I don't like that. It's horrible, But really that's one 97 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: of my biggest problems right now. I mean, that's messed up. 98 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: That is messed up for me to even I don't know. 99 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: It makes you feel horrible, And I think it's because 100 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: maybe my mom kind of gave me some of the 101 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 1: same things, not she wasn't doing it for any bad reason. 102 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: It's for a really good reason to think about other 103 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: people have empathy. Imagine yourself if you don't have all 104 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: the things that you have now. But it definitely weighs 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: on me pretty heavily. No, the I think that my 106 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: problems are are bad sometimes right, and I really a 107 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: wallow in what I'm dealing with. But then if I 108 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: pull myself out a little bit, I just realize how 109 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: ridiculously great I have it. Yeah. I mean, like, I 110 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: have a six year old daughter, and the perfect way 111 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: to sum up these like first world problems is to 112 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 1: observe the behavior of a six year old. So she's 113 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: constantly like We're in a store and she's like, I 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: want that thing, and I'm like, why do you want it? 115 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: She's like, well, because it looks cool and because I 116 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: really I feel as though I need that and deserve that. 117 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: And I have to say things like I never thought 118 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: I would be this, but I am like, let's why 119 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: do you not worry about what you don't have and 120 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: just think about what you do have and appreciate that, 121 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, and let's let's go from there. That's it 122 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: doesn't work, though not not not hearing it, and um 123 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean she's not a super tantrum 124 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: type kid, but she definitely you know, she's got some 125 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: some some wants sot it down, get the things you 126 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: just like getting. I'm not giving it. I'm not gonna know. No. 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: She's really smart though, and she's kind of villainous. One 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: time she told me I have made a powerful enemy 129 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: when I wouldn't give her a fanta. Oh wow, that 130 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: never happened. And somebody, um did make a powerful enemy 131 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: recently though, didn't they. Yeah, I'm still kind of sore 132 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: about it. I don't want to go into it. No, 133 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,119 Speaker 1: I you could event maybe when I'm in a better 134 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: place to talk about emotionally. But listeners, just you just 135 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: to be absolutely clear the thing that we're alluding to, 136 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of problems. We 137 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: are today talking about something that's related to an earlier 138 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: podcast we did, right, we did the future of inequality. 139 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Now it came back to do the future of poverty. 140 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: And so first we have to ask ourselves, you know, 141 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: what what is poverty? You know people we talked about 142 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: how people us Okay, a full disclosure for everybody, Uh, 143 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: the slight jump you just heard was and edit because 144 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: off air, off air met you convinced me that if 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: everybody is talking about first of all problem, I should 146 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: talk about one too. It's a little difficult because I 147 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: am furious. No, you might have to edit parts of 148 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: this because I don't know if I can hold it in. 149 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: So I think somebody stole some mail from me. I 150 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: was ordering Full Disclosure is ordering some comics graphic novel 151 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: set from a series that Noel turned us onto called 152 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: Lock and Key, and it's fantastic and is waiting days, 153 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure some I'm pretty sure somebody stole it. 154 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: And there's this strange um, you know, the bureaucracy in 155 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: that movie Brazil, That's what I'm going through. Try Like 156 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: I have the packet packing tracking number, and I have 157 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: all my bureaucratic red tape ducks in a row. And 158 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: these people, these people, uh, they just push you. You know, 159 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: it's it's no help. And and well it says that 160 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: there's saying, oh well, Ben. It says it was delivered 161 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: because you came and picked it up, and I said no. 162 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: I was with myself the whole time. I didn't go 163 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: anywhere you know, there's not like sleepwalking. You're right anyway, 164 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm not a somnambulist or whatever. But that's a horrible 165 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: feeling where you really thought you were gonna get it, 166 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna get to get back into the story that 167 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: you've been waiting for, and now it's like, but it's 168 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: such a stupid problem to have, you know, considering what 169 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 1: what I had, This story already encounters so many things 170 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: we already have right, already have a phone where it's 171 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: possible to call a post office. Right, already have a 172 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: phone where it's possible to call the people are supposed 173 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: to be shipping it. Already had a little bit extra 174 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: scratch to get some graphic novels of all things internet connection. 175 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: An Internet connection, not to mention a shipping service that 176 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: can send you think, oh yeah, totally, you're right. So 177 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: I was being very small minded and bradish and stupid 178 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: and spoiled. We talked about being a little hard on yourself, 179 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: but well, we talked about real problems before when we 180 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: talked about the future of inequality in a previous podcast 181 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: that you should check out. You don't have to listen 182 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: to it to understand what we're talking about today, but 183 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: it will help sort of paint the picture. So people 184 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time asking how much money a 185 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: person needs to live, Right, you've seen those commercials. We've 186 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: all seen their commercials, you know, for a dollar a day, Right, Yeah, 187 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: and uh, this leads us to ask what is poverty? 188 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: What's poverty? How is it defined? Who's defining it? I mean, 189 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: in general, I guess we all basically have understanding of 190 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: part of what poverty is, um but you know, in 191 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: general terms, it's the state of being poor, not possessing 192 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: adequate resources, whether in terms of money or basic needs 193 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: that need to be meant such as food, water, shelter, 194 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: medical services. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's the ways say it, 195 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: because this doesn't one person's poor is another person's you know, 196 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: wealth or another person's pension. Right, Yes, it's it's a 197 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: wildly different across the world. Well, yeah, that's the one 198 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: of the hardest things that we found in researching this 199 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: is that it's there are institutions that are global that 200 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: are trying to kind of say, well, if we look 201 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: at poverty globally, what does it look like? And then 202 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: you're having to go down to each separate country each 203 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: separate region in each country and say well, what does 204 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: poverty mean here, and then trying to put say a 205 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: dollar amount like the U n does or the World 206 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: Bank tries to put a dollar amount a day for 207 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: how much a person must make or must not make 208 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: to be considered poor or not. Right, Yeah, because their 209 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: their degrees of poverty as well. What we're talking about 210 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: ccifically will be extreme poverty. And this is measured, as 211 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: you said, met in absolute terms, meaning people living on 212 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: less than a dollar a day. It used to be 213 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: a dollar twenty five a day and then went up 214 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: to a dollar and ninety cents a day. That's so 215 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: the World Bank uses as a benchmark for these poverty 216 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: statistics and the estimates of this very widely. But ladies 217 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, we are happy to say there is good 218 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: news at least at the beginning of this, which is 219 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: that over time, the percent of the population with extreme 220 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: poverty has been in decline. Yeah, that's right. One of 221 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: the one of the big numbers we were looking at 222 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: was that in nineteen eight one, according to the World Bank, uh, 223 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: there were I think of human beings and the global 224 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: population were considered to be below the poverty line. Then 225 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: in nine it was thirty seven percent, then all the 226 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: way up to two thousand twelve, and we're currently at 227 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: twelve point seven percent. But even that's declining, you know. 228 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: That's yes, that's two thowelve and hopefully we're I think 229 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: the most recent estimates, let's see du fourteen percent in 230 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. According to that is the MDG Report Summary, 231 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: which is the United Nations Millennium Development Goals. That's their 232 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: little summary from the last year that that was we 233 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: should probably talk about what the millennium Development goals are. 234 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: If I'm gonna jump that out, well, yeah, let's talk 235 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: about it. So the United Nations on the at the 236 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: suggestion of the then Secretary at the time of Blue 237 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: Wiskopia Nan, decided that they would set forth these broad goals, 238 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: and one of those goals was the eradication of extreme poverty. 239 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: They've met some of those benchmarks there and they're still 240 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: working on it. What we're talking about now, when like 241 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: as we kick around these statistics, is that if this 242 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: were a game, the rules of the game are changing 243 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: while the game is uh, while the game is a 244 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: foot you know, so we see that. Let me see 245 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: the poverty doesn't necessarily mean the same um, the same 246 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: thing across the planet. But we also see that despite 247 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: the wide misunderstanding and some of the hidden agendas are 248 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: alleged hidden agendas that will be discussing here. Uh, despite 249 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: all this stuff, and despite the dwindling of extreme poverty, 250 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: the numbers are still the numbers are still bad. Not 251 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: being in extreme poverty does not mean you are in 252 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: any way, shape or form necessarily doing well. It just 253 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: means that you're not extremely impoverished. As so, so let's 254 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: talk about some of those factors. If we talked about 255 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: the future of poverty, we talk also about the factors 256 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: affecting poverty, which are not necessarily what you might think, 257 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. We're talking about the big stuff, right. 258 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: One of the factors that I hadn't really thought about 259 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: and how much affect it would have on poverty globally, 260 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: is climate change and how it's going to basically, I mean, 261 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: it's gonna make a lot more people more poor. If 262 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: you think about rising sea levels, if you think about 263 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: weather and catastrophes that are going to be occurring at 264 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: higher and higher frequencies, or at least that are projected 265 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: to take place at higher frequencies. I would think too, 266 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: it would affect like agrarian economies. Oh yeah, droughts, fires, 267 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: There are all of these things that are you know, 268 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: at least according to the science, being affected by global 269 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: climate change. Well there's a yeah, that's a good point. 270 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: There's a double whammy there as well. Like I know 271 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: that the ideas that the ideas circling around environmental catastrophes 272 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: are often politicized. So let's just look at it from 273 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: a geographical place. Here's why I called it double whammy 274 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: because the areas of the world that are being affected 275 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: most by these things are typically in developing regions of 276 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: the world, which means that there's not as much infrastructure. Uh, 277 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: the states involved and the people affected don't have some 278 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: of the same safeguards or safety nets. For instance, in Bangladesh, 279 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of problems with flooding. Yeah, 280 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: there are already a lot of problems. And we kind 281 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: of saw like what there is to be done internally 282 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: in Bangladesh and what kind of safeguards there are, and 283 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's only going to get worse, and uh, 284 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, some Pacific nations are already worried about sinking 285 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: under the water within our lifetimes. This could create something 286 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: that I think is very strange and I never thought 287 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: this would happen, something called climate refugees, where you have 288 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: to flee where you currently live in order to either 289 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: be at a higher elevation to be a where a place, 290 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: a place where food is available. Right Like to your point, No, 291 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: if there's an agrarian economy and people depend upon that 292 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: for sustenance and livelihood, then when that land is unerable, 293 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: then they have to go. They can't. There's not another option. 294 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: And just quickly specifically, that study was saying that there 295 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: there could be another one million people who I guess 296 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: are included or added to the numbers of those who 297 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: are extreme in extreme poverty in the next fifteen years, 298 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: especially in Sub Saharan Africa and South Asia. Those are 299 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: the places that are most at risk, right, yes, And 300 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 1: with that continuing, I think we should also note the 301 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: future of inequality skyrocketing in certain parts of the world. 302 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Our country included on that list. But there's there's this 303 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: other thing that maybe will make for a different show 304 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: in the future, but we should talk about it now. Technology, 305 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: you guys, Times change. Yeah, I had a couple of 306 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: things that this the curred to me around technology, and 307 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: I was listening to an NPR piece on Marketplace a 308 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: couple days ago, and I wish I could remember a 309 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: little bit more specifics about it, but um, they reference 310 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: a stat that was really interesting to me that folks 311 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: in lower income brackets are more likely to get into 312 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: traffic accidents that can cause them serious health problems because 313 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily have access to cars with the newest 314 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: safety features. So if you're not making as much money, 315 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: you might be driving an older car. You might let 316 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: things lapse as far as maintenance of that car. And 317 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: you also might be in a car that doesn't have 318 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 1: any of the newer like you know, sensors that keep 319 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: you to tell you when you're out of your lane, 320 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: or like you know, backup cameras, things like that that 321 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: tend to add, you know, to the safety of vehicles. 322 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: And then so I was googling that to try to 323 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: figure out what the study was, and I actually came 324 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: upon this blog on the World Bank website that said 325 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: a huge factor, or at least a factor, it's a 326 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: lot larger than you might think in uh, poverty is 327 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: automotive accidents, and so that sort of ties in because 328 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: a large number of people can actually lose their jobs 329 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: after serious car accidents for a number of reasons, whether 330 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: it's you know, health, they can't perform functions required to 331 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: do their jobs anymore, maybe they weren't insured properly, and 332 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: they are now dealing and debt, dealing with all kinds 333 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: of medical bills, and it goes on. So it takes 334 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: longer for victims of road crashes to find jobs because 335 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: the you know, the criteria is gonna be much more 336 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: specific if they actually have suffered serious injuries. And then 337 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: you know, there are these huge income gaps between victims 338 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: of traffic crashes and non victims. So if, for example, 339 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: you are at fault in a traffic accidents and then 340 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: you don't have adequate insurance, you can totally ruin your life. 341 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: You could lose your house, can spiral out of control. 342 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: And I mean, I think that is that's definitely ties 343 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: into the technology factor. Maybe not in the way that 344 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: you were going with it, but I think it's definitely 345 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: something I think about. It is interesting. I think it 346 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: ties in perfectly because it is something that we don't 347 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: consider and it is into the future of poverty because 348 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: in some parts of the world you have to have 349 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: some sort of transportation. You can have a car, right 350 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: and a cell phone and still being extremely poor, especially 351 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: in a country where it's a necessity to have those 352 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: two things. And the other thing that goes on with 353 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: technology here is increasing automation. Are we going to get 354 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: to a point where most of the jobs that are 355 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: done by humans now just don't need to We don't 356 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: need those people to work. You know, It is very 357 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: strange that I was actually looking at Marshall Brain's website 358 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: for this, who is the founder of how stuff works 359 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: dot com the site for which we works are Dave Thomas, Yeah, exactly, 360 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: Mr Marshall Brain. Well, he he writes about this stuff 361 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: a lot about automation and robotics and the future, what 362 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: it's gonna look like. And the first thing that he 363 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: says that's going to be the first job that's going 364 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: to be driven out through automation, he says, our truck drivers, 365 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: because he thinks it's gonna they're going to be automated 366 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: trucks just going all over the United States and delivering everything. Unfortunately, 367 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it does seem like that's one of those 368 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: things that is just a matter of time. I mean, 369 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: we know that self driving cars exist that are you know, 370 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: in beta testing, that are pretty damn good, and you know, 371 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: you just um scale that technology and you know, put 372 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: out a fleet. Well but but the thing is, uh, 373 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: that job of being a truck driver that's actually a 374 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: fairly I mean it's not amazingly lucrative, but it's a 375 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: pretty darn good steady job that you can get. And 376 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: it's also a very kind of American job if he 377 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: think about it. I mean, it's a very like kind 378 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: of grassroots kind of like you know, working man's type job. Well, yeah, 379 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: it's so let's take these three large concepts and let's 380 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: paint the worst hypothetical picture. It doesn't have to necessarily 381 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: be in the States. But let's say a person, UM, 382 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: give him a name, and if I use your name accidentally, listeners, 383 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: I promise it's not on purpose. So let's say Sam, Right, sure, Sam. 384 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: So let's say that Sam grew up on a farm. 385 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: Sam grows up on a farm and becomes a truck driver. Right, 386 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: and this is still when people can drive their own trucks. Uh, 387 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: but Sam's not doing that well, because it's not paying 388 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: that well, right, and uh, he can't afford the insurance, 389 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: the the extra price you have to pay just since 390 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: private life to have a manually driven car, which is 391 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: going to be more expensive, right, And that also means 392 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: that he's at fault if an accident occurs. So an 393 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: accident occurs and he can't, Uh, he can't get back 394 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: into the trucking industry because he has that one strike 395 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: and trucks increasingly automated, they don't need He's in a 396 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: John Henry situation. They don't need a human driver. So 397 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: it goes back to his childhood farm, but it's not 398 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: there because the desertification has occurred or whatever in the 399 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: land as eroded. It's no longer arible. And then in 400 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: this dystopian future, our boys Sam ends up joining millions 401 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: of other people who have no job. There's no place 402 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: that will employ them, and we would live in this 403 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: sounds like such a sci fi story, like Black Mirror, 404 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: but we would live in a place where the only 405 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: people with power and the only people with jobs are 406 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: the people who own the machines and repair them. That's 407 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: one reason the Black Mirrors so excellent is because it's 408 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: incredibly appreciated in that way. Like, I mean, the scenarios 409 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: that it depicts are based on very real problems and 410 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: very real technological situations that are reaching critical mass and 411 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: that could eventually lead to some dystopium kind of situation. 412 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: And the way you just describe that it's interesting to 413 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: me because I think if this is like sort of 414 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: like a one day there are truck drivers and one 415 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: day there are no more truck drivers. But you're right, 416 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: it would be like a more gradual process where people 417 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: would gradually it would be more and more difficult to 418 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: pay for the insurance and to actually, you know, do 419 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: it the old way, sort of like with cabs and 420 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: uber right now for example. That's a that's a pretty 421 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: good point and in a disturbing point too so with 422 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: but think, guys, not all hope is lost for Sam 423 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: and his countrymen because he lives in a place where, yes, 424 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: there's a crumbling infrastructure, maybe yes there's a corrupt government 425 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: and there's not enough h employment to go around. But 426 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: what if a friendly international agency dedicated entirely to the 427 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: elimination of extreme poverty showed up and said, hey, we'll 428 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: help you out. Here's the safety net. Here's the safety 429 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: that you wanted. Just pay us back and oh, just 430 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: a couple we'll give you some money. It's a loan, 431 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: no stress, Just a couple of things go along with 432 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: the loans, standard business. Wait a mane, are you talking 433 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: about like a mafia ask organization here? Oh no, uh, 434 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about the World Bank. And we'll get 435 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: to them in a moment. Right after a word from 436 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. What if the 437 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: World Bank has a different purpose? I love that. I 438 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: thought we were in an episode video episode just then. 439 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm being serious you guys. Well, I mean, 440 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: what can you give us a little bit more background 441 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: on the World Bank? I know we've touched on it 442 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: throughout this episode, but I I could use a little 443 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: bit of a primer. Yeah, okay, So the World Bank 444 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: is an international financial institution. What they do is they 445 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,239 Speaker 1: give loans to developing countries with the idea that they 446 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: will increase the economic growth of that country. So this 447 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: would be stuff like building damn. For instance, here's a 448 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: loan to build a project of great infrastructure, right, and 449 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: these loans are attached often with conditions. In these conditions 450 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: are meant to better the economic state of the country. So, 451 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: for instance, corruption is a big problem in a lot 452 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: of developing countries. I mean, it's a big problem everywhere, 453 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: but it's a big problem in developing countries. Different types 454 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: of corruption, different types, that's right, And what the Bank 455 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: will do in order to combat that, for instance, would say, well, 456 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: we're taking we need to privatize some of your industries 457 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: because right now there's state running corrupt, which is a 458 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, is an unfortunately common problem. So with their 459 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: official goal being the reduction of poverty through this kind 460 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: of capital investment in capital programs, they are and they 461 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: are a part of the United Nations. They're part of 462 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: the World Bank Group, which is part of the United 463 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: Nations Development Group. And they've had some hits, they've had 464 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: some misses. Uh, They've been accused at times of pursuing 465 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: a free market ideology that flies in the face of results, 466 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: so making the error of a lot of passionate, motivated, 467 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: smart people, which is to say, I know what will work, 468 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: and so I'll do this because I know the result, 469 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: even though I haven't done it before, or even though 470 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: I've done it before in the exact same way, and 471 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: it had a horrible result, I'm going to do it 472 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: again because it might work this time. It might work 473 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: this time. Well, in part of this too, to be 474 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: completely fair, and these are huge problems, you know what 475 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: I mean. This is not this is not something that 476 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: any group could get right all the time. Well, yeah, 477 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: you're trying on a global scale to fix economies. I mean, 478 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: that's I don't know if there are many more lofty 479 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: goals besides getting humans to Mars or are they Are 480 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: they trying to fix the economy. Well, that's the question. 481 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: There are people on let's say the outskirts who would 482 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: say no, they're actually trying to perhaps destabilize certain areas 483 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: of the world and to go in and maybe gain 484 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: a little more control for a global institution like the 485 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: World Bank. Again, that's on the fringes. M hmm. Can 486 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: we circle back to our hypothetical farmer situation Sam, let's 487 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: check it on Sam. Okay, So, uh yeah, So Sam 488 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: is one of the people affected, and he's been displaced 489 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: his truck. Our job is no more, right is trucker 490 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: job is no war? The farm's gone nothing, nothing tumbleweeds man. 491 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: And so the World Bank comes in that there aren't 492 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: any roads they're all in disrepair. There could be uh 493 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: some potential to make new farm land with some irrigation projects, right, 494 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: and we need that, right, We need money for that, 495 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: and we need expertise. We need engineers because a lot 496 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: of the engineers have left the country for better paying 497 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: jobs elsewhere. There was a brain drain. So the World 498 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: Bank comes in and says, uh, says, well, we'll give 499 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: you this one. We'll build this infrastructure project and we 500 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: will make we will increase the GDP of the country 501 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: right at the gross domestic product. We will uh kickstart 502 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the economic growth. This country will go from stagnating to 503 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: developing again. And one day, who knows, baby, you could 504 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: be Singapore. I don't know if that's I don't know 505 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: if Pacino is in the World Bank. Is that the benchmark? 506 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: So the target? Uh, well, you know, Singapore is a 507 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: little authoritarian, but it's it's a pretty clean country apparently. 508 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: So here's where things start to go wrong. They say, well, 509 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: while we're building this damn uh and this irrigation project 510 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: that's going to bring this farm land back, you Sam 511 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: and all your neighbors have to move get out. It's 512 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: we need this area to work, right, I mean, you 513 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: gotta get out here? Are we gonna at least pay 514 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: you out? Though? Is that how we roll? Ideally? But 515 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: what if Sam says I don't want to go, then 516 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: Sam will be forcibly relocated. At least this happened before 517 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: where where people were forced to get out. And yeah, 518 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: it can happen in any situation. You know, a state 519 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: can in many cases impose um impose itself upon private property. Right, 520 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: happens in the States. Yeah, what's it called imminent domain? Yeah? 521 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: A k A. The reason that the roads can widen 522 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: into your yard. Right. So here are some of the 523 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: criticisms that people will say, uh including and these aren't 524 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: all These aren't necessarily your typical idea of of anarchist 525 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: or a conspiracy not. One of the more ardent critics 526 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: of the World Bank is its former chief economist, Joseph Stigletz. 527 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say Stalin former just Stalin. 528 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: Uh So this is you'll hear. You'll hear people argue 529 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: on both sides. You'll hear some people. I read a 530 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: very interesting thing where a guy accused the World Bank 531 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: of being a socialist collectivist thing. And then other criticisms 532 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: of course more criticism with it being a uh too 533 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: far into like a neoliberal idea of the free market 534 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: economy that the invisible hand will guide people to civilization. 535 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: But Stiglett said that the policies the Bank implements happened 536 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: too quickly and uh it's referred to as shock therapy, 537 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: but it's in the wrong Uh, it's in the wrong sequence. Uh, 538 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: and that the bank ends up prising g d P 539 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: over anything else. So if there's a higher g DP, 540 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily when the economy is good for a country, 541 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean the economy is good for the 542 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: people in that country, right, And I'm not I'm not 543 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: arguing for any political thing. That's just a fact. And 544 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: so Stigletts is saying that these two ideas should not 545 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: be conflated. And what he's saying is he's saying there's 546 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: a maybe a degree of honest error in the implementation 547 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: in these policies. But then other people are saying no, 548 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: the uh internet sational UH that the I m F 549 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: and the World Bank function as these tools of control 550 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: as as a way to keep keep other states in 551 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: subservient positions or even to practice resource extraction and it's 552 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: strange because the I m F and UH, the i 553 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: m F and the World Bank cracked something called the 554 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: Washington Consensus, which is where they decided that the World 555 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: Bank would also institute these policies of privatization, deregulations, stuff 556 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: like that. Stiglets objects to it and says that it 557 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: hasn't um it hasn't worked out, that it's more of 558 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: a of people wanting a nice idea to be true, 559 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: and maybe they're doing it the wrong way. He for instance, 560 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: says that the Chilean success a lot of people who 561 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: are proponents of the Washington Sensus believe that Chile is 562 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: a success story economically because of World Bank IMF policy. Stiglets, however, 563 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: says that it because they had state ownership of key industries, 564 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: particularly it's copper industries, so the state still owned the resources. 565 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: And of course other people wildly disagree that that's why 566 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: it happened. But that's the thing about the dismal science 567 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: of economics, and you know, people can argue back and 568 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: forth all day. I can see that argument where if 569 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: if Chilia owned they owned the copper industry in their country, 570 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: they could use money coming in from that to perhaps 571 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: bolster certain parts of their economy, right, helped some things 572 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: out internally, rather than having this giant loan from the 573 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: World Bank that they're having to pay off anyway. So 574 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: this goes back to an earlier thing we talked about 575 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: before too, which was do banks run the world? Yes, yes, 576 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: that you're you believe in this. I see the strings everywhere, man. 577 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of undue influence there. But 578 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: it's You've always seen that. It's difficult outside of apparently 579 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: the Iceland, it's difficult to regulate banking industries. But I 580 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: will also say that the World Bank, in my opinion, 581 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: in my opinion in the World Bank has hard working 582 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: people and just like in any other industry, and they're trying. 583 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: They're trying to make the world a better place. But 584 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: if we look at the future of poverty, right, and 585 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: we ask ourselves why there is a larger concentration of 586 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: poverty in certain places like Sub Saharan Africa is actually 587 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: gaining more impoverished people while the rest of the world 588 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,959 Speaker 1: is doing a little bit better and better and better. 589 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering, and I'm asking you, guys, and 590 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm asking you listening as well. Do you think that 591 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: the World Bank is a tool of some sort of 592 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: overarching thing. Right, we talked about in our video episode. 593 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: We talked about different authors who alleged that the World 594 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: Bank is um working hand in hand if intelligence agencies like, well, 595 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: build a damn for you, or you could probably do 596 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: a better villain voice. I had a bad damn vile. 597 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: I was just kind of piggybacking on, you know, source material. 598 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating point we're virging on here. However, because 599 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: the World Bank has represents excuse me, over a hundred 600 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: and eighty countries, however it's controlled by a small amount 601 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: of countries. The president of the World Bank traditionally has 602 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: always been American, and the president of the I m 603 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: F traditionally has always been European. And the governing structure 604 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: of the bank is not democratic. They have this. They 605 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: have this an interesting idea because the funding members of 606 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: the bank worked out a deal where it's one dollar, 607 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: one vote. Therefore, the more money you contribute to the 608 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: World Bank, the more control you have over the organization. 609 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: That's why China, India might represent round the world's population 610 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: but only have five percent of the votes at the 611 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: World Bank, whereas six countries the US, Canada, Japan, Germany, 612 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: the UK and France control about of the decision making 613 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: power and it's not required to reveal its internal documents. 614 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: You can if it was, but it doesn't have to. 615 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: Uh those I keep talking. I've got to apologize for this. 616 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: I keep talking about the loans as though there is 617 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: one kind of loan, but there are three. The first 618 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: is a project loan, and that's where we talked about 619 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: damns and power plants and copper minds and stuff. The 620 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: second is a sector adjustment loan. That's that's where they 621 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: support specific policy changes in an industrial sector, for instance. 622 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: And then the third, the one that you hear a 623 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: lot about when it comes to those changes of the regulars, 624 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: d regulation, privatized zation, and so on. That is the 625 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: Structural Adjustment Program, short term support and exchange for major 626 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: policy changes. So I don't know, I know this is 627 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: kind of dry, but this ties into the future of 628 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: poverty because we're looking at a world within your lifetime, listeners. 629 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: We're looking at a world where it's quite possible, it's 630 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: quite possible that poverty becomes eliminated if if this group 631 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: is actually pursuing their goals, you know what I mean. 632 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of NGOs trying to do 633 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: the same thing, non governmental organizations. But what do you 634 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: guys think, Like, do you think the critics have some 635 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 1: grain of truth in their criticism? Is the World Bank 636 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: a wolf in sheep's clothing? Well, there's a lot of 637 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: fear about global organizations like this. And we we spoke 638 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: about the Millennial Development Goals that the U n had 639 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: put forward in two thousand that lasted up until two 640 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: thousand fift and this year they got replaced by the 641 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: Sustainable Development Goals. And I'm just going to read some 642 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: of these off just to give you an idea of 643 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,879 Speaker 1: the let's say, the goals for good that are being 644 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: put forth by the United Nations. One no poverty. That's 645 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: the one that we're talking about, and that was number 646 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: one at the top of the Millennium Development Goals, which 647 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: was and back then it was eradicate extreme poverty and hunger. 648 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: Now it's just no poverty. We're gonna kill it. It's done. Uh. 649 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: Number two is zero hunger, which is really good. Uh. 650 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 1: They want to look at good health and well being, 651 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: quality education, gender equality, clean water, and sanitation all the 652 00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: way down to climate action um reduced any quality throughout 653 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: the world. I mean, these are some huge, lofty goals, 654 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: but as we could see from the Millennium Development Goals, 655 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: they did pretty well. At least who knows if they 656 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: the u N actually did all of the things to 657 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: cause this in the World Bank. But still having a 658 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: global organization with those goals and and actively pursuing to 659 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: rid the world of these terrible things, I mean, I 660 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: think it's pretty great. But on the same side and 661 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: the other side of that coin, I think it is 662 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: probably not going to be very effective on a global scale. 663 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, and is are these institutions make changing the 664 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: world or are they just enforcing a neo called a 665 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: colonial status quo? Right? That's a huge possib kind of 666 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: how it feels to me in some sense. Yeah, I 667 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: guess it's just sometimes it's just a matter of sort 668 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,959 Speaker 1: of shifting the status quo so that it suits those 669 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: in power and sort of like allowing them to make 670 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: it malleable to their own ends. And you know, I mean, 671 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: I hate to sound cynical, but a lot of times 672 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: when I see these big organizations trying to make these 673 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: big changes, and they involve you know, kind of backgroom 674 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: deal type scenarios. It makes me wonder, you know, where, um, 675 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: their motivations actually lie. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And then 676 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: also it's it's tough to guess because there's obsfurcation of 677 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: the internal documents, right, And it's also tough to guess 678 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: because it's a new kind of thing. It's it's it's 679 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: one of the first kind of entities doing this for 680 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: this long right. But they've been accused of, uh, doing 681 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: They've been accused of pursuing ulterior motives repeatedly. And then 682 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are multiple sides of the story because 683 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: of course the bank is dealing with corrupt places at 684 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: the time, but the allegation that the bank itself is 685 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 1: corrupt is uh, I'm just gonna say it's not crazy. 686 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: It's not crazy that people with a lot of power 687 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: would play some underhanded well, and I mean, and corruption 688 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: begets more corruption. You know, if you're working in a 689 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: situation where you can get away with something because of 690 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, the status quo of that particular situation, certain 691 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: type of person might take advantage. Yeah, that's a good 692 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: point too. So I guess though we have to look 693 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: at it in a great balanced scale. On one side 694 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: we have the good that's being done right, and then 695 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: on the other side we have a lot of sketchy stuff. 696 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,399 Speaker 1: So when do we make the call about when? When 697 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: do we make the call about whether this is a 698 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: good thing or not? And listeners, especially if you're listening 699 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: in foreign country, what is your country's experience these institutions. 700 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you and just show you 701 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: how much. Oh man, I wish we had time to 702 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: check all of that listener mail from the last episode. 703 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: Oh we have, We got so much. I actually have 704 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: a list of all of the people who wrote to us. 705 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: You know, such a good guy. I'm just going to 706 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: read them out at some point. Do we have a selection. 707 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: I have one in particular that I want to shout out. 708 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: But thank you everyone for writing a writing to us 709 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: about sleep, sleep, paralysis, night terrors, shadow people, all of 710 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: that stuff, all kinds of just really interesting stories about 711 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: sleep and what you experience when it happens. Because sleep 712 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: to us and dreaming, I think the three of us 713 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: in this room, it's a fascinating subject already. Just the 714 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: idea that we we deactivate for hours and hours and 715 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: hours at a time every day. It's still weird to us, 716 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: but thank you Jessica, Liz, jama A, j Dwayne, Andy, Michael, 717 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: Sean and Sean O, Vanessa, Tom, Ellie Jasper, George Lacy, 718 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: and finally Yaya, who did something that I'm not aware 719 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: anyone else has done so far on this show. It's 720 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: a first. She sent us a voice message. She was 721 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: listening to our show in her car and she pulled 722 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,359 Speaker 1: over to the side of the road and decided to 723 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: record a message and sent it to us. I thought 724 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: that was pretty awesome. So, uh, we're just gonna go 725 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: ahead and listen to the story that she's telling about 726 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: an experience she had back in the day. Hey guys, 727 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: So I was listening to the Sleep Paralysis podcast and 728 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: while driving, and I heard the story about the guy 729 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: sleeping with the two girls and then um having a 730 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 1: weird little episode. And I remember a while ago kind 731 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: of a similar thing happening to me. So I used 732 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: to live in my family in a two story house 733 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: and then there was like, um, kind of like three 734 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,399 Speaker 1: stairs that go down to a lower level, I guess 735 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: you would say. And my brother, my older brother, he 736 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: lived in the room down at the lower level of 737 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: the how now. He kept complaining about like weird things 738 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: happening to him, or he would uh, you know, wake 739 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: up and one at one point he's seen like something 740 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: extremely like demonic in the corner of his room and 741 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: and I was just like, you know, I don't believe 742 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: you at all, Like this is just crazy. I don't 743 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: believe you. And the way his room was set up 744 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: was there was like a family room downstairs, and then um, 745 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,280 Speaker 1: right connected to the family room was his bedroom. And 746 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: I remember being like half asleep on the couch and 747 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,359 Speaker 1: he looks over at me and he's like, hey, um, 748 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: are you sure you want to sleep down here? And 749 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: I'm like, uh yeah, why And he's just like, um okay, 750 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: well something's gonna happen. And I'm just like, um okay, 751 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: Like this, I just was not believing him at all 752 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,280 Speaker 1: in any of the stories he said. Anyways, I fall asleep, 753 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know how long I was asleep for, 754 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: but I do remember like opening my eyes, and it 755 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: was it was a weird sensation to like be awake 756 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,879 Speaker 1: but not be awake and not be able to move 757 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,879 Speaker 1: or get up when you want to get up. It's 758 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,280 Speaker 1: just the weirdest feeling. It's never happened to me before. 759 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 1: And I remember, um, this man like standing um behind me, 760 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: so I could hear him, I could hear where he 761 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: was standing, but I couldn't see him. And he was saying, 762 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, I know you, um, you don't know me. 763 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: A lot of people they say, like when they see me, 764 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: it's really um. It's frightens them and they get really scared. 765 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: And then he said, I've been watching you for a while, 766 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: and he showed me like a bunch of pictures of me, 767 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: like just doing everyday things are like getting out of 768 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: the shower, like really weird. And then he goes, so, 769 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: do you want to look at me? And I I said, no, 770 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,279 Speaker 1: I don't, why would I want to? And I just 771 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,440 Speaker 1: remember like squeezing my eyes shut and like feeling the 772 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: weirdest force like on my head, like pushing me down 773 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: and trying to like open my eyes, and it was 774 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: like the scariest um like I'm shaking thinking about it 775 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: right now, and and I just kept trying to resist, 776 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: and finally like I woke up and I ran upstairs, 777 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: and now I woke my mother up at the time, 778 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: and I told her what had happened, and she's just 779 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 1: like shocked, doesn't know how to react, and she's like, well, 780 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: let's go get your brother and see how he's doing. 781 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: And while we were walking downstairs, he's rushing upstairs and 782 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: he's freaking out, and you know, we're like what happened? 783 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: And he's like, I just remember um sleeping and just 784 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: feeling completely drained. And I could hear in the next 785 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: room a man uh talking to Yahya about something. I 786 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: couldn't understand what she was he was saying, but I 787 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: heard how like deep his voice wasn't it freaked me out. 788 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: I just was drained of energy. And then I write 789 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: when I wake up, I woke up and ran upstairs. 790 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: So take it how you want it, but that was 791 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,879 Speaker 1: the weirdest, weirdest thing that has ever happened to me. 792 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: And I think that what really validated it for me 793 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: was the fact that my brother also heard what was 794 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: going on in the room. So I know something happened 795 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,439 Speaker 1: that night. I don't know exactly what it was, but 796 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say, like, I don't do drugs 797 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: or like meth. I really don't even drink, and so 798 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 1: I I just thought I would get it out there 799 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: and it was. Um, it's kind of a weird story, 800 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: so hard for me to like write it in an 801 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: email on the side of the road, but I thought 802 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: i'd let you guys know I love your podcast. Keep 803 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: it up, thank you. Uh yeah, that I don't know. 804 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: It seems like a creepy experience. I wouldn't I wouldn't 805 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,280 Speaker 1: want to go through that. I wonder if it happened 806 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,800 Speaker 1: any other time though, or something similar to that. She 807 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 1: says it that was pretty much it. But I don't know. 808 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,919 Speaker 1: Do you think the brother was messing with her? Oh? 809 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, but maybe we'll hear from the brother also. Also, 810 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: I love the I love that people are sending in 811 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: audio files if you, if you would like to do that, 812 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. So I guess I 813 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: want to follow that up. I've got three Um, okay, 814 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 1: I guess, don't mind. Yeah. The first one is much 815 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,359 Speaker 1: along the same lines of of ya Ya's audio message. Um, 816 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: but I just kind of wanted to show that we 817 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: got a pretty cool collection that looked at both that 818 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: that's sort of good examples of both sides of this 819 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: sleep paralysis discussion variety. Yeah, A little variety. So here's 820 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: one UM from Jessica, and she describes her first experiences. Thus, 821 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,439 Speaker 1: first time I experienced sleep paralysis UM. I was taking 822 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,280 Speaker 1: a nap after class and preparing for a late shift 823 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,839 Speaker 1: at work when I quote awoke end quote. I couldn't move, 824 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: but I could see my room as I was laying 825 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,759 Speaker 1: in my bed. I was on my side and could 826 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,399 Speaker 1: see multiple white shadows were quickly floating across my room, 827 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,640 Speaker 1: back and forth and disappearing through the walls. I was 828 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: petrified and wanted to run and scream, but could not 829 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: move and had trouble breathing. At this point in my life, 830 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: I had no idea what had happened and figured it 831 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,239 Speaker 1: was just a very, very vivid nightmare. A few weeks later, 832 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,200 Speaker 1: I had a similar episode. I was in the same 833 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 1: exact position, except this time there was an attic door 834 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,240 Speaker 1: in the ceiling of my room. The door partly opened 835 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: and things were being thrown out of it, and I 836 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,760 Speaker 1: even saw an arm. Again very terrifying, and I couldn't 837 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,439 Speaker 1: move or make a sound, and my chest felt tight. 838 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,760 Speaker 1: The recurring thing something on your chest pressing down, pushing 839 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 1: the life out of you. Now that I look back 840 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: at the situation. I don't know what to think of it. 841 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: There were so many factors scientific and supernatural that affected 842 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: my life. So now I want to say I kind 843 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 1: of wanted to follow up Matts with this one, sort 844 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: of that fear terror kind of scenario, and now I've 845 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,320 Speaker 1: got a couple that sort of show a different angle 846 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 1: on it. Um largely because both of these folks report 847 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 1: very specific sleep brows of situations like we talked about, 848 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,360 Speaker 1: but they are kind of at peace with them, and 849 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,160 Speaker 1: I thought that was really interesting. So the first one 850 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: comes from George, and UM, forgive me if I take 851 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: on a bit of a voice when I read this 852 00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: year wonderful. He has wonderful, uh, very compelling prose here, gentleman, Oh, 853 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,200 Speaker 1: I like it. I understand you live busy lives, so 854 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,800 Speaker 1: I will endeavor to keep this concise. My name is George, 855 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: and I assume from the episode on sleep paralysis you 856 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 1: may be interested in the first hand story on the matter. 857 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: I'll start by saying this has happened to me many times, 858 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: and I'm a firm believer. It is just a crazy 859 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 1: and amazing interplay between our brain and body. Some of 860 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: my experiences have seemed very dark or sinister in nature. 861 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,600 Speaker 1: But it was only in the very beginning I thought 862 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: they were otherworldly. I'm not gonna read the whole thing 863 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: is pretty long email, but I'm going to read his 864 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: first example here, the first occurrence I can remember in 865 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,719 Speaker 1: sharp detail. I was twenty three years old, living in 866 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,399 Speaker 1: San Diego and attending my son art Technical School, having 867 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,399 Speaker 1: been in the U. S. Navy for just over a year. 868 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: It was like most of the classic stories. I felt 869 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 1: fully awake and unable to move when I came to 870 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,160 Speaker 1: sense a dark intent in the room with me. I 871 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: could feel something crawling up from the foot of my 872 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: bed and very suddenly and intensely pressing down on my chest, 873 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,279 Speaker 1: as if trying to force all the air for my 874 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: lungs and crush me. The feeling of being completely immobile, 875 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,480 Speaker 1: suffering what you think is impending death, but at the 876 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: same time fully mentally awake and screaming in your mind 877 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: is such a foreign experience in our mundane daily lives 878 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: that it borders on the unexplainable. Simply said, it is 879 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: terrifying on a level that makes you feel like a 880 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: little child again, hoping your mother or father will rush 881 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: in and chase away the darkness, wonderful. Here's where it 882 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,040 Speaker 1: gets interesting. To sum it all up, I am one 883 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 1: of those weirdos that actually enjoys when this happens to me. 884 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,000 Speaker 1: George's words, not mine. I quickly dropped the notion that 885 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: I was being haunted and grew to see it more 886 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 1: as an extension of a lucid dreaming state, living in 887 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: a place and time where everything has a logical purpose 888 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: and science rules the day. It's fun to have the 889 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: rules of reality bent a little because your brain thinks 890 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 1: you are awake when you're really in a sleep Limbo. 891 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: I love the podcast, respectfully, George. I love that, George, 892 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: because it makes me feel less bad about wanting to 893 00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: experience it. And I think it's interesting because he he 894 00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: has he He's both sides of the coin through experience. 895 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,520 Speaker 1: You know, he first has it and he um can't 896 00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: explain it away, and it's probably leaning towards more of 897 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 1: it being like a real like a supernatural event of 898 00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: some kind. And then the more he experiences it, the 899 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 1: more it starts to fascinate him. And then the more 900 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,920 Speaker 1: he realizes this is, you know, an extension of his mind, 901 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,239 Speaker 1: and he is experiencing it, and it's something that you 902 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,839 Speaker 1: wouldn't normally experience. So I, you know, he's not taking 903 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,759 Speaker 1: that for granted, and I think that's pretty awesome. It's 904 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,839 Speaker 1: beautifully rational. And so for my second one, UM, this 905 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 1: person asked to remain anonymous, so I'm just going to 906 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: read one of his or her experiences. I had my 907 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: first shadow person experience when I was about fifteen at 908 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: a summer camp. I was sleeping in the top bunk 909 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: in a room with eight other people, and suddenly I 910 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: opened my eyes and saw a black shadow floating over me. 911 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,600 Speaker 1: I was startled, but unlike the panicked reaction of many others, 912 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: my next feeling was a complete certainty that this entity 913 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 1: was watching over me like a mother and making sure 914 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,319 Speaker 1: I was okay. A second later, it dissolved away and 915 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: I went back to sleep. Another night at camp, I 916 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,640 Speaker 1: woke up very suddenly and saw a similar shadowy figure 917 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,920 Speaker 1: in the opposite corner of the room. I still get 918 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: these once in a while, and it's strange, but I'm 919 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: not afraid at all. Nice don't be afraid. I don't 920 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,799 Speaker 1: think so either. I mean, you know, you can look 921 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: at it so many different ways. You can I like 922 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,359 Speaker 1: this kind of Guardian angel version of it. I mean, 923 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, even if it's associated with kind 924 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,279 Speaker 1: of a negative experience, I think it's interesting to be 925 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,160 Speaker 1: able to see both sides of something like that. That's 926 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,160 Speaker 1: why I liked George and this anonymous person's letters. Wow. 927 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,600 Speaker 1: You know, I when we did this episode, I didn't 928 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 1: know that it would strike a chord with so many 929 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,040 Speaker 1: folks out there listening. Some of the most YouTube comments 930 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,839 Speaker 1: we've ever gotten. Really, yeah, of people just saying, hey, yes, 931 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,800 Speaker 1: I've experienced this. I remember when this happened to me 932 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: for the first time. And as far as the podcast goes, 933 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,480 Speaker 1: the largest number of letters that I've seen generated from 934 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: a single episode. And unfortunately, now is the time Matt, 935 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,560 Speaker 1: Noel and I have to mosey on out of here. Well, 936 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,239 Speaker 1: I don't know, are we gonna mosey We're gonna sneak. No, 937 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,239 Speaker 1: I'm gonna drive home as fast as I can. There 938 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,720 Speaker 1: is poop in my baby's diaper and I can smell 939 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: it from here. You I need to change that diaper. 940 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 1: You guys, that's so weird, man, what I mean, I 941 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,879 Speaker 1: get it, but it's just, you know, you guys don't 942 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,279 Speaker 1: have that you need to get some sleep, buddy, I've 943 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,600 Speaker 1: been changing I've been changing my own diapers for years. No. 944 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: But on a on a serious note, thank you so 945 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,040 Speaker 1: much to everybody listen. Thank you even more to everybody 946 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,000 Speaker 1: wrote in. If you would like to send an audio 947 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,359 Speaker 1: file of a story, then please do uh we we'd 948 00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,239 Speaker 1: love to check it out. All the stuff we said 949 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: earlier applies And the most important part of the show. 950 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: Do you have a topic idea for us? Is there 951 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,799 Speaker 1: something that you think is stuff they don't want you 952 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 1: to know? This this is your show as much as 953 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 1: it is ours, and all of our best suggestions come 954 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 1: from you. And that's the end of this classic episode. 955 00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,960 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 956 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,399 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 957 00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,399 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 958 00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,040 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 959 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,239 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 960 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,840 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 961 00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,760 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 962 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know is a production of 963 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,680 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 964 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,680 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever 965 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,