Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.
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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody, literally breaking news almost minutes after we sent
Speaker 2: out our full show to premium subscribers.
Speaker 3: But that's how it works. Sometimes.
Speaker 2: Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson are officially parting ways.
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this statement up on the screen.
Speaker 2: Quote Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to
Speaker 2: part ways. We thank him for a service to the
Speaker 2: network as a host and prior to that, as a contributor.
Speaker 2: Mister Carlson's program was last program was Friday, April twenty first.
Speaker 2: Fox News Tonight will air live at eight pm Eastern
Speaker 2: Standard times, starting this evening as an interim show, helm
Speaker 2: by rotating Fox News personalities until a new host is named.
Speaker 2: So obviously, basically nobody in the business expected that Crystal
Speaker 2: talking you with you a.
Speaker 3: Little bit before.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people know this. I got
Speaker 2: my started media working for Tucker Carlson at The Daily Caller.
Speaker 2: From what I can gather amongst many of my former colleagues,
Speaker 2: this was not necessarily expected. This was not a decision
Speaker 2: that was that at the very least was not a
Speaker 2: surprise to a lot of people who are.
Speaker 3: In the know or in the business.
Speaker 2: It might have been potentially last minute on some long
Speaker 2: standing tensions between Tucker and the overall Fox News media,
Speaker 2: but this is.
Speaker 3: A titanic event in cable news.
Speaker 2: Tucker was by far the largest host in all of
Speaker 2: cable He was the largest personality on Fox News. He
Speaker 2: had the best numbers amongst the key demographic, and he
Speaker 2: was a He had the best access. I would say
Speaker 2: to Trump himself, what's your immediate reaction to the way
Speaker 2: that this all went down?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, first thing, to your point, this is monumental.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is the top rated cable news host
Speaker 1: in all of television. And we have always said there
Speaker 1: are basically two people in cable news who can generate
Speaker 1: their own following, who have a real tribe who shows
Speaker 1: up to them as appointment viewing. One of those is
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow, who is no longer a nightly presence on MSNBC,
Speaker 1: and the other one was Tuck Across and who now
Speaker 1: we know is out at Fox News. The first thing
Speaker 1: that your mind goes to is, of course, the timing,
Speaker 1: given that they just had this huge settlement with Dominion
Speaker 1: Voting Systems, largest defamation media settlement in history. So you wonder, okay,
Speaker 1: was that related to this, because you also have a
Speaker 1: Smartmatic lawsuit coming down the pike. You also had shareholders
Speaker 1: looking at whether they were going to sue the company
Speaker 1: as well and board of directors or mishandling the election claims.
Speaker 1: So you wonder if this is somehow related to those settlements,
Speaker 1: if the overall company felt that he had become too
Speaker 1: much of a liability, because even though I mean there
Speaker 1: were some you know, there was some poor reporting.
Speaker 4: Let's just say that.
Speaker 1: Was on the Tucker Carlson program during the election season,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't out there.
Speaker 4: The way like lou Dobbs and Maria Barbarom awarded.
Speaker 1: But the text messages that came out from him saying
Speaker 1: that he hates Trump and he's demonic forsts that are
Speaker 1: obviously very embarrassing. The other thing, just from a business perspective,
Speaker 1: you know, you might look at this and go, God,
Speaker 1: he's their highest rated show, and you know, he's obviously
Speaker 1: like a tent pole for them in primetime, and he's
Speaker 1: like the quarterback of Fox News at this point. However,
Speaker 1: the ratings don't matter if advertisers aren't willing to spend
Speaker 1: money during your hour. So the business piece of this
Speaker 1: may be a little bit less straightforward than would initially
Speaker 1: meet the eye.
Speaker 2: So as I understand it, one of the reasons why
Speaker 2: he was so important to the network, Crystal is that
Speaker 2: his young demographic numbers were a key negotiation point in
Speaker 2: the cable carriage fee negotiation which is coming up. So,
Speaker 2: just so everybody understands, a vast majority of Fox News's
Speaker 2: profit comes from the cable carriers paying them a fee
Speaker 2: to remain part of the cable bundled Now, as again,
Speaker 2: one of the cases that Fox was making is no,
Speaker 2: we're not just an aging cable news program. We also
Speaker 2: have this show in primetime which is watched by a
Speaker 2: couple hundred thousand people in the young demo. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying these are the great numbers because the overall millions
Speaker 2: of people consumed it were definitely outside the demo, but
Speaker 2: they were better than other people who were on Fox News.
Speaker 2: So first of all, that's one major thing. The other one,
Speaker 2: and this is where it comes back to me, is
Speaker 2: the future of the network. Actually went back and just
Speaker 2: looked it up and looking at a twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: article here about Tucker Carlson inks a new multi year
Speaker 2: deal with Fox Media expands his presence with a Fox
Speaker 2: News Nation, video podcast and special So they were kind
Speaker 2: of betting the internal streaming future of Fox News and
Speaker 2: the Fox News platform on Fox Nation basically a subscription
Speaker 2: based kind of extra content. It was like CNN Plus,
Speaker 2: but I don't know, I guess for boomers. So the
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson Hour and all that, you have to subscribe,
Speaker 2: you have to watch it. By the scenes. They built
Speaker 2: a new set all of this. So, first of all,
Speaker 2: immediately to my mind is wow. So the future the
Speaker 2: Fox Nation basically entire programming was anchored almost entirely to
Speaker 2: Tucker at his personality was by far the only thing
Speaker 2: that was even watched on Fox Nation. As I understand
Speaker 2: that Fox Nation has not been a particularly big business success,
Speaker 2: but you know, whatever it was was basically tied to
Speaker 2: his personality and not some of the other content there.
Speaker 2: So on the streaming side, this is a big problem
Speaker 2: for them. But overall, and here's where I'm curious. I
Speaker 2: know people have said it before, Fox is dead after
Speaker 2: Megan Kelly. Megan Kelly's show was great. It was certainly
Speaker 2: it was a very good program, but it was an
Speaker 2: interview program and had.
Speaker 3: More to do with news.
Speaker 2: The only real comp is O'Reilly O'Reilly. Everybody says O'Reilly
Speaker 2: was bigger than Fox News, and I think important step
Speaker 2: back in time and actually, look what happened. Tucker did
Speaker 2: not replace O'Reilly. He actually basically created an entire new
Speaker 2: show ideas that not really had been aired at least
Speaker 2: in some part on the Fox News platform, and brought
Speaker 2: in a much younger demographic by focusing I think undeniably
Speaker 2: on things that most people on Fox were just not
Speaker 2: as traditionally into same, like Sean Hannity, who he replaced
Speaker 2: and supplanted as the major.
Speaker 3: Number one person on the platform.
Speaker 2: And that's ultimately kind of what got him the position
Speaker 2: that he had at Fox. So I do think this
Speaker 2: is a new situation simply because look, I mean it's
Speaker 2: almost been what twenty seventeen is when O'Reilly left Fox News,
Speaker 2: So it's been several years since that happened.
Speaker 3: The Fox News.
Speaker 2: Platform has frankly only gotten older. They haven't added more
Speaker 2: younger people. Second, they don't have the same bench here.
Speaker 2: I mean, who is the biggest guy at Fox now
Speaker 2: Gutfeld like and look, no offense Gutfeld, but you're not
Speaker 2: caring in that work the way.
Speaker 4: They're still the Hannity right.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, but I think I think if we
Speaker 2: think about it, I guess Hannady would come in second
Speaker 2: numbers overall. But yes, he doesn't seem to have the
Speaker 2: same energy, the same energy and almost like the controversy,
Speaker 2: all of that that used to swirl around O'Reilly and
Speaker 2: Tucker in terms of their signature personalities, he almost seems
Speaker 2: to be more of a follower.
Speaker 3: Of the news than a creator of it, in the way.
Speaker 1: That Hannity's just sort of a standard issue partisan cheerleader.
Speaker 1: You know, whatever is going on in the Republican Party,
Speaker 1: He's going to defend it.
Speaker 4: It's very predictable, right, which has.
Speaker 1: A certain audience, and obviously he also benefited from coming
Speaker 1: after in the lineup. At this point, Tucker and can
Speaker 1: sort of carry that audience over a lot of the
Speaker 1: cable news businesses just about who you come after, and
Speaker 1: so if you have someone who can bring people in,
Speaker 1: then it's just a matter of you try to hold
Speaker 1: on to that audience for your show as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am remind him just kind of going back through
Speaker 1: my mind.
Speaker 4: Over the past couple.
Speaker 1: Of weeks, Tucker also did just have a bit of
Speaker 1: a mini scandal with regard to you know, these leaked
Speaker 1: discord documents where he took as credible.
Speaker 4: He took as credible.
Speaker 1: The one document that we know was altered to make
Speaker 1: the Russian casualty numbers look more favorable and make and
Speaker 1: inflate the Ukrainian casualty numbers, and he actually took that
Speaker 1: at face value and reported that as if it was fact.
Speaker 1: In reality, it was like the one part of those
Speaker 1: documents that was provably false. So maybe that was like
Speaker 1: the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe that was
Speaker 1: one embarrassment too many. And then also remember that you know,
Speaker 1: the shareholders and investors in Fox News are you know,
Speaker 1: may have a different view of what the business model
Speaker 1: should look like, and there is a real succession drama
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes about who will succeed Ruper Murder.
Speaker 1: And of the two sons, one of them is very
Speaker 1: Tuckerish and one of them is much more sort of
Speaker 1: moderate or even like sort of liberal sympathetic, I guess
Speaker 1: I would say. So there's also a split in what
Speaker 1: direction the company might go in, So listen, I think
Speaker 1: it's possible. Tucker was like, look, I'm a rich man.
Speaker 1: I don't really want to do this anymore. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to go do my thing in the woods. To me, though,
Speaker 1: the way this came down so abruptly, as someone who
Speaker 1: has been let go of a from a cable news
Speaker 1: show before, the way they do it is you don't
Speaker 1: know until you do your show and then they call
Speaker 1: you into the office and then they tell you're fired,
Speaker 1: and you never get to be on air again, because
Speaker 1: they don't want someone who's already been told they're let
Speaker 1: go to then go on their air and god.
Speaker 4: Knows they're in yolo mode. God knows what they're going
Speaker 4: to say to the audience.
Speaker 1: So the fact that this clearly happened after his show
Speaker 1: on Friday, they made a point of me like, he's
Speaker 1: never coming on our air again. Makes me feel like
Speaker 1: it is more likely Fox News is letting him go
Speaker 1: versus him just sort of amicably deciding like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: thanks for the years.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go and like enjoy my life. Now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2: So there's a couple of possibilities. I think all points
Speaker 2: to is abruptness. Right, So either A he was fired.
Speaker 2: B they were like and they had planned to do so.
Speaker 2: B they had asked him to do something like maybe
Speaker 2: read a statement or maybe be comply and potentially one
Speaker 2: of their future lawsuits and he said, no, screw you,
Speaker 2: I'm going to walk and they said, okay, well then
Speaker 2: you're fired. I guess those are really the only two scenarios.
Speaker 2: Somebody obviously pulled the plug at an abrupt nature. They
Speaker 2: had a multi year deal on the books. There's a
Speaker 2: big question too, around his future. Now. Look, I don't
Speaker 2: have any idea about his contract.
Speaker 3: I don't know how it.
Speaker 2: Was negotiated, but I do know that cable news non
Speaker 2: competes are insane. Maybe he can thank the Biden administration
Speaker 2: if they do make not compare enforceable. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but you know, at the very least, this is one
Speaker 2: hundred million dollar asset that has now walked out out
Speaker 2: of the door at the very least, so they very
Speaker 2: much could try and pursue him. Maybe he had stronger
Speaker 2: protections in his contract, if he was able to leave,
Speaker 2: what he was able to do, if he had the
Speaker 2: ability to pursue a podcast and all that, because it
Speaker 2: seemed like what Fox had done is they basically rolled
Speaker 2: up all of the rights to his personality inside of
Speaker 2: the Fox brand. So by leaving that, he's not only
Speaker 2: leaving the show behind. If he doesn't have robust ip
Speaker 2: protection in his contracts, he could be real hamstrung in
Speaker 2: terms of what he's even allowed to do.
Speaker 1: True, and there could be a period like, for example,
Speaker 1: after Megan Kelly was out at Fox, there was a
Speaker 1: period where you know, she negotiated, she got the NBC contract,
Speaker 1: but then they had to wait until she could actually
Speaker 1: start the show, And that would be typical. There would
Speaker 1: be some sort of a waiting period before Tucker would
Speaker 1: be able to do anything else with another networker on
Speaker 1: his own if he wants to continue creating content, you know,
Speaker 1: for better or worse, there's definitely an audience for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he doesn't need Fox News at this point.
Speaker 1: And even from the time when you know Glenn Beck
Speaker 1: left or when Bill O'Reilly was out, the ability to
Speaker 1: immediately have your own podcasts, have your own media brand,
Speaker 1: have your own platform, you know he would be successful.
Speaker 1: I have no doubt if he wants to go in
Speaker 1: that direction, and he would be unshackled from whatever limited
Speaker 1: apparently constraints they put on him over there at Fox News.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't think that we've heard the
Speaker 1: last of him, very likely, no question.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I've always believed he would be incredibly
Speaker 2: successful if he left Fox. I don't even think Fox
Speaker 2: was ever good for him. I think the cable in
Speaker 2: general is a terrible platform for anybody who has more
Speaker 2: than IQ of twelve. Yes that I think that Hannity
Speaker 2: is better suited for Fox News. And look, I don't
Speaker 2: think is a deniable as you said that it clearly
Speaker 2: will be doing something. Also, Look, just in terms of
Speaker 2: the level of credibility, I think that he has well
Speaker 2: not only with Trump but with a lot of people
Speaker 2: who vote for Tran is not something that you can.
Speaker 3: Really put aside.
Speaker 2: That's why I really believe this could be fundamentally different
Speaker 2: in terms of its impact on Fox News as an
Speaker 2: overall brand. They don't have the same level bench for personalities.
Speaker 2: They don't have anyone who necessarily kind of quote does
Speaker 2: the same thing that's always always been unique in that way. Look,
Speaker 2: I could be completely wrong, right, I mean, maybe they'll
Speaker 2: hire somebody, and they'll hire what they're trying, you know,
Speaker 2: recre aggregate. It's certainly possible. But with all of the
Speaker 2: wins against cable, and not only that, they just had
Speaker 2: this humilion and humiliating one billion dollars settlement, so they're
Speaker 2: squeezed really from both ends, both by the audience and
Speaker 2: by the overall lawsuit. So yeah, look, I mean it's
Speaker 2: a good day if you don't like Fox News. I
Speaker 2: can't smile.
Speaker 4: News cable news in general. And I think the fact
Speaker 4: that you now have the two.
Speaker 1: Biggest cable news stars basically out, you know, Rachel Matto
Speaker 1: very much of her own doing, and Tucker very likely
Speaker 1: because of Fox deciding. But we'll see what the details
Speaker 1: are as they come out. It's just a signal of
Speaker 1: how much that whole industry is dying We've been talking
Speaker 1: about how it's like a zombie business model has been
Speaker 1: for a while, and you know, I think this really
Speaker 1: helps to paint that picture of an industry that why
Speaker 1: would anyone who has a genuine following, who is you
Speaker 1: know able to create content that's compelling to people that
Speaker 1: people want to watch, that they want to pay for?
Speaker 1: Why would you shackle yourself to cable news and these
Speaker 1: and at this time it doesn't make any sense from
Speaker 1: a personal decision. So again I suspect that Fox pushed
Speaker 1: him out rather than the other way around, just because
Speaker 1: of the way that this went down. We'll see, but still,
Speaker 1: I just don't think you're likely to see stars of
Speaker 1: the level of a Tucker or a Rachel moving into
Speaker 1: the future. I think those days are past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's funny. Somebody texted me and goes, so,
Speaker 2: when is Fox gonna hire you? And I was like,
Speaker 2: first of all this happen? Second of all, why why
Speaker 2: did we take this emotion?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I want to go work for Murdoch instead of people
Speaker 2: watching this show. There ain't no amount of money in
Speaker 2: the world that is worth that, so anyway, kind of funny.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, big, big, big, day as you can tell.
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll have more to talk about tomorrow as
Speaker 2: a more insight comes out. I asked him for the record.
Speaker 2: I was like, Hey, what's going on. Haven't heard anything back.
Speaker 2: So that's where we are right now. If I hear
Speaker 2: anything else, I'll let you guys know. Hello again, everybody.
Speaker 2: We're seconds away from recording breaking news about Tucker Carlson
Speaker 2: out over at Fox News. When lo and behold, the
Speaker 2: news fairy comes and gives us this, So let me
Speaker 2: go ahead and put it up there on the screen.
Speaker 2: From one Don Lemon. I was informed this morning by
Speaker 2: my agent I have been terminated by c I am stunned.
Speaker 2: After seventeen years at CNN, I would have thought someone
Speaker 2: in management would have had the decency to tell me directly.
Speaker 2: At no time was I given any indication I would
Speaker 2: not be able to continue to do the work I
Speaker 2: have loved at the network.
Speaker 3: It is clear there are some larger issues at play.
Speaker 2: With that said, I want to thank my colleagues and
Speaker 2: the many teams I have worked with for an incredible run.
Speaker 2: They are the most talented journalists in the business, and
Speaker 2: I wish.
Speaker 3: Them all the booths.
Speaker 2: So the news gods are our raining on us?
Speaker 4: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: I mean, I what are we going to do this?
Speaker 2: He was such a farm of content, and he was
Speaker 2: you know, he was such a trusted name and such
Speaker 2: a great show, so so good at his job, so professional,
Speaker 2: respectful of women.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just heartbroken.
Speaker 3: What are women going to do with it?
Speaker 4: Is heartbroken of.
Speaker 1: For both of these the loss of both of these
Speaker 1: individuals from the cable news landscape. When I saw this
Speaker 1: announcement on Twitter, I mean, first of all, because blue
Speaker 1: checks don't mean anything anymore, the lack of a checker whatever,
Speaker 1: like it's so hard to know whether it's a real
Speaker 1: finger or not. And then the fact that this that
Speaker 1: we had just gotten the news that Tucker was like,
Speaker 1: this cannot possibly be real, but it is. And I mean,
Speaker 1: just to remind everybody in real hot water over at CNN,
Speaker 1: he was forced into these like sexism re education trainings
Speaker 1: over his comments about quote unquote prime women. After Nicky
Speaker 1: Haley announced there were a lot of there was visible
Speaker 1: on air tension between him and both of his two
Speaker 1: female colleagues.
Speaker 4: He'd already been.
Speaker 1: Sort of demoted from having his own primetime slot. He
Speaker 1: built that as no, this isn't a devotion to go
Speaker 1: to the morning show, but clearly, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that it was. To share the stage with two other
Speaker 1: people is a lot different than having your own primetime show.
Speaker 1: And then just on the metrics, the show hasn't done well.
Speaker 1: It's more poorly rated than the previous iteration of the
Speaker 1: Morning Show, which I personally thought when it was John
Speaker 1: Burman and Allison Camarado was actually much better John John
Speaker 1: Berman and Poppy Harlowe. I think it was for a
Speaker 1: while as well, that rated better than the current relaunch
Speaker 1: of this thing, which is supposed to be the new
Speaker 1: boss's real imprint that he was putting on the network.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, when you have someone who is highly
Speaker 1: paid and poorly rated that people don't like, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised when this is ultimately the outcome.
Speaker 2: I think it's clear this man is a pig behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, He's a disgusting person, doesn't treat people well.
Speaker 2: He's an egomaniac, narcissist, psycho, and all that started to
Speaker 2: come out. Now we got a little bit more news here.
Speaker 2: I can read Crystal CNN's Chris Licked says to my
Speaker 2: CNN colleague, CN and Don have parted ways. Don will
Speaker 2: forever be part of the CNN family. We thank him
Speaker 2: for his contributions over the past seventeen years. We wish
Speaker 2: them well, and we will be cheering him on his
Speaker 2: continued endeavors. Here's the key part. CNN This Morning has
Speaker 2: been on the air for nearly six months. We are
Speaker 2: committed to its success. So what does that mean that
Speaker 2: their poorly rated morning show where Lemon was the anchor,
Speaker 2: is gonna continue? So good luck to Poppy Harlow and
Speaker 2: Caitlyn Collins. No offense. I think even fewer people will
Speaker 2: be watching, if that is somehow even possible.
Speaker 3: I don't think that show is long for this world, Crystal.
Speaker 2: I believe that some of this might have come because
Speaker 2: of that Deadline article that we brought everybody here about
Speaker 2: his treatment of past female colleagues, where past behavior involving
Speaker 2: his disgusting behavior towards women had surfaced, and they probably
Speaker 2: had either launched a new investigation or there might have
Speaker 2: been even incident that we don't even know about, Crystal,
Speaker 2: behind the scenes of other women. Yea other inappropriate conduct
Speaker 2: that he that he's been doing. We know that the
Speaker 2: CEO already hated him, and you know it could just
Speaker 2: be straw that broke the camel's back here.
Speaker 1: Well, you get away with a lot. Unfortunately, when you're
Speaker 1: a news anchor, so long as times are good, if
Speaker 1: you aren't delivering, and you are highly paid, and you've
Speaker 1: become a liability for the network, then suddenly, yeah, the
Speaker 1: knives are going to come out. Suddenly, things that they
Speaker 1: would have just buried the carpet or you know, just
Speaker 1: defended them over or ignored or whatever, Suddenly those things
Speaker 1: become reasons to part company.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: One thing that I think is different business wise from
Speaker 1: the Tucker Fox situation and the CNN Don Lemon situation
Speaker 1: is I think Fox losing Tucker in terms of ratings
Speaker 1: is a blow. I think there could be a sort
Speaker 1: of like revolt among some part of their base audience.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone, any CNN watcher is really going
Speaker 1: to carry that Don Lemon is gone. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's going to matter for their ratings of the Morning show.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to matter for.
Speaker 4: Their ratings overall. I don't think that there's going to
Speaker 4: be any sort of viewer revolt. I think business as.
Speaker 1: Usual will can mediocre business as usual will just continue over.
Speaker 3: There, absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Uh man, news gods, give us a break here, all right,
Speaker 2: we're trying to we're trying to write modelogue for tomorrow's show,
Speaker 2: and yet here I haven't. I didn't even get a
Speaker 2: chance to take off my tie. But you know what,
Speaker 2: that's what I love. I live for moments like this.
Speaker 2: It's a hell of a lot of fun. I guess
Speaker 2: enjoy the rest of the show that we take earlier.
Speaker 2: I'm sure this is all anybody's gonna watch today. That's okay,
Speaker 2: that's why we do it here.
Speaker 3: We'll see you guys tomorrow.