Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Day Bake You podcast. Good morning,
Speaker 2: It's Thursday, the eleventh of September. I'm Caroline hepkea in
Speaker 2: London and.
Speaker 3: I'm Stephen Caroline Brussels. Coming up today. Police in Utah
Speaker 3: are searching for the killer of Charlie Kirk, a conservative
Speaker 3: activist and close ally of US President Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: I Think the World of View, Bloomberg obtains revealing and
Speaker 2: embarrassing emails between Britain's ambassador to the US, Peter Mandelson
Speaker 2: and Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3: Plus seeking supporters. Poland calls on NATO allies to bolster
Speaker 3: its air defenses after Russian drones were shot down over
Speaker 3: its territory.
Speaker 2: Let's start with a roundup of our top stories. A
Speaker 2: search is underway in the United States for the killer
Speaker 2: of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who was shot dead at
Speaker 2: a university in Utah. Kirk, a close ally of the
Speaker 2: US President, was speaking at an outdoor event when police
Speaker 2: say a single shot was fired from a nearby building.
Speaker 2: Donald Trump reacted to the killing on social media.
Speaker 4: For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful
Speaker 4: Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass
Speaker 4: murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible
Speaker 4: for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today,
Speaker 4: and it must stop right now.
Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump. There Kirk was one of America's
Speaker 2: most prominent conservative figures, leading the organization Turning Point to USA.
Speaker 2: His popularity had flourished using a brash approach to politics
Speaker 2: and as an online champion of Trump and his MAGA movement.
Speaker 2: The shooting is the latest, though in a spate of
Speaker 2: US political violence. Donald Trump faced two assassination attempts on
Speaker 2: the campaign trail, and in June, a gunman killed Minnesota
Speaker 2: Legislator Melissa Hortman and her husband at their home.
Speaker 3: News has obtained more than one hundred previously unreported emails
Speaker 3: between Jeffrey Epstein and Peter Mandelsson between two thousand and
Speaker 3: five and twenty ten. The interactions between the UK's current
Speaker 3: ambassador to the US and the late disgraced financier cast
Speaker 3: new light on their relationship, showing that it was deeper
Speaker 3: than previously known. Bloomberg's Chris pet Has more.
Speaker 5: The day before Jeffrey Epstein reported to a Florida jail
Speaker 5: in June two thousand and eight to begin serving time
Speaker 5: for soliciting sex from a minor. He received an outraged
Speaker 5: message from a friend, anguished at the injustice of it all.
Speaker 5: I think the world of view and I feel hopeless
Speaker 5: and furious about what has happened, Peter Mandelson wrote in
Speaker 5: an email obtained by Bloomberg News. I still can barely
Speaker 5: understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. At
Speaker 5: the time, Mandelsson was European Commissioner for Trade. Today he
Speaker 5: is the UK's ambassador in Washington. The new revelations come
Speaker 5: as Mandelsson already finds himself at the center of a
Speaker 5: furora over his links to the serial sex abuser. After
Speaker 5: the publication this week of a two thousand and three
Speaker 5: birthday book in which he penned a ten page tribute
Speaker 5: calling Epstein his best pal, Bloomberg sent Mandelson a detailed
Speaker 5: letter outlining the emails on Monday this week. Mandelson acknowledged
Speaker 5: receipt of Bloombo's questions, but has not responded to them. However,
Speaker 5: in an interview with the UK newspaper The Sun on
Speaker 5: Wednesday morning, he expressed remorse at his relationship with Epstein.
Speaker 6: I regret very much. Indeed, I felt it like a
Speaker 6: like an albatross around my neck. Since his death in
Speaker 6: two thousand and eighteen or nineteen when it was I
Speaker 6: feel a tremendous sense of regret, not only that I
Speaker 6: met him in the first place, but I continued the association.
Speaker 5: Despite those comments on the Harry Cole Saves the West podcast,
Speaker 5: the UK's Prime Minister Keir Starmer now faces growing calls
Speaker 5: to sack Mandelson as ambassador to the US. Conservative opposition
Speaker 5: leader Kemmy Baiden Not called the situation a disgrace in London.
Speaker 5: Chris Pitt Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: In other news, Bloomberg understands Poland has asked NATO allies
Speaker 2: for more air defense systems after shooting down Russian drones
Speaker 2: that crossed its border yesterday. WARSAW has invoked Article four
Speaker 2: of the alliance's treaty, triggering consultations that could lead to
Speaker 2: coordinated action. Polish Foreign Minister Vardislaw Sikowski says they need
Speaker 2: patriot missiles and new technology to protect their skies.
Speaker 1: We need to.
Speaker 7: Create what ursula forman lane called today in the European
Speaker 7: Parliament at her annual State of the Union address a
Speaker 7: drone war. This is a threat not only to Poland,
Speaker 7: This new technology of the mass use of drones is
Speaker 7: a threat to all of the EU and nature and
Speaker 7: mini to.
Speaker 8: Face it together.
Speaker 2: The Polish Foreign Minnesota was speaking as the country's Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: Donald Tusk said on social media that Poland has received
Speaker 2: proposals of concrete support from allies. Polish and Dutch jets
Speaker 2: were scrambled in the early hours to shoot down Russian
Speaker 2: drones yesterday, nineteen A space violations were registered.
Speaker 3: Mexico was planning to impose tariffs of up to fifty
Speaker 3: percent on cars and other products made by China and
Speaker 3: several Asian exporters. The levees would apply to thousands of categories,
Speaker 3: from auto parts to steal to furniture, and would affect
Speaker 3: most effect countries with which Mexico has no trade deal.
Speaker 3: The Mexican Economy Minister Marcelo Erbrard described the proposed duties
Speaker 3: as part of efforts to protect jobs and industry. It's
Speaker 3: a move that would more closely align Mexico with US protectionism.
Speaker 3: As President Claudia Scheinbeun prepares for talks over at North
Speaker 3: America's free trade deal.
Speaker 2: The CEO of City Group, Jane Fraser, says she's surprised
Speaker 2: by the resilience of the US economy mid a constantly
Speaker 2: evolving macroeconomic landscape. Speaking to Bloomberg, she said businesses now
Speaker 2: have more clarity on tax policy, on tariffs and deregulation.
Speaker 1: One is always surprised by the upside and the resiliency
Speaker 1: of the US.
Speaker 8: So let's look at what's gone on.
Speaker 1: Is you've got to look at the collective impact of
Speaker 1: the tax policy, what's been happening with tariffs and indeed
Speaker 1: the increasing deregulation that we're seeing, and they work together
Speaker 1: as a package. I think the most important piece for
Speaker 1: a corporate clarity.
Speaker 8: We hate uncertainty, weight clarity.
Speaker 1: And our client base now is really starting to act
Speaker 1: with more confidence.
Speaker 2: Jane Fraser's position, though, contasts with that of UBS's CEO
Speaker 2: sgy Or Motty. He's told Bloomberg the impact of global
Speaker 2: tariffs on the US economy remains unclear.
Speaker 6: The true show on taris will be seen on consumers
Speaker 6: in the US.
Speaker 5: We will need to see exactly if there is any inflationary.
Speaker 8: Aspect of tarift and is.
Speaker 3: That still unclear at this point I think is unclear.
Speaker 2: So the comments from two of the world's most prominent
Speaker 2: bank CEOs comes ahead of today's USCPI data, which is
Speaker 2: expected to show a zero point three percent month or
Speaker 2: month price rise. Investors have fully priced in a quarter
Speaker 2: point rate cards at the Federal Reserves meeting next week.
Speaker 3: The European Central Bank, meanwhile, has expected to leave interest
Speaker 3: rates unchanged that its decision today, as economists believe policymakers
Speaker 3: are finished with cuts for now. Bloomberg's Micalcobala reports all.
Speaker 9: Fifty nine economists in Bloomberg survey predict the ECB will
Speaker 9: hold its deposit rate at two percent today. They're also
Speaker 9: expecting that fresh quarterly projections from the central Bank should
Speaker 9: calm fears that inflation could sink below the banks two
Speaker 9: percent target for too long. Most ECB officials are said
Speaker 9: to be happy with the current monetary policy stands. Prices
Speaker 9: are deemed to meet the target, and the Euro Area
Speaker 9: economy appears Brazil even as Donald Trump's taris takehold and
Speaker 9: France wrestles with political turmoil in Brussels.
Speaker 8: Michael Kobola Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Those are top storys for you this morning. Looking at
Speaker 2: the market, so eupins dogs are up about a quarter
Speaker 2: of one percent, fifty one hundred up by half of
Speaker 2: one percent, and still futures for the US market open
Speaker 2: s and P five hundred futures are barely about a
Speaker 2: tenth of one percent. So it does seem that markets
Speaker 2: are holding their breath awaiting the USCPI data.
Speaker 8: Also the ECB decision.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe not this month, the most important month
Speaker 2: perhaps December, when we're also expecting we are expecting a
Speaker 2: rate cart markets, that is from the ECB. In terms
Speaker 2: of the euro, we trade at one sixteen ninety one,
Speaker 2: so slightly weaker for the euro against the stronger dollar.
Speaker 2: Gold is down three tens. Oil prices are steady, and
Speaker 2: in the bond markets, ten year US treasury yields trading
Speaker 2: a four.
Speaker 8: Spot zero five.
Speaker 2: Germany yields had two sixty six, up about a basis point.
Speaker 3: Stephen the Karlender the key market story of course, that
Speaker 3: dry things yesterday, and I'm watching shares take higher and
Speaker 3: pre market trading on Wall Street against today is oracle.
Speaker 3: So the software companies results are not beat forecast. Push
Speaker 3: shares thirty six percent hire yesterday. They're up about another
Speaker 3: one point seven percent in pre market today. So yesterday
Speaker 3: we saw eighty nine billion dollars being added to the
Speaker 3: fortune of co founder and chairman Larry Allison, the biggest
Speaker 3: ever one day increase records on Bloomberg's Billionaires Index. Push
Speaker 3: Larry Elson, pastyln Mosque on the index as well, made
Speaker 3: in the world's richest person for a short time anyway,
Speaker 3: just a casual three hundred and eighty three billion dollars
Speaker 3: now that Larry Allison is worth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely what you can read more about that on
Speaker 2: the terminal and also really about what it means for valuations.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Shirley Ren writing about this what is fair value
Speaker 2: for a tech company? Now? She says that the question's
Speaker 2: no longer got really good answers because os ficial intelligence
Speaker 2: has upended so much. I mean, that's the story you're
Speaker 2: always on the watch for, how artificial intelligence is rapidly
Speaker 2: changing business and markets.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, in a moment, we're going to bring you
Speaker 3: more on our exclusive reporting regarding the emails between Peter Mandelson.
Speaker 8: And Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3: Plus we'll be discussing the issues of European Security. Poland
Speaker 3: now convening a meeting of the UN Security Council to
Speaker 3: address the Russian encursion of drones into its territory yesterday.
Speaker 3: But I want to turn back to our top story
Speaker 3: this morning, first and the shooting of American political activist
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk in Utah. Our reporter Tiwa Adebayo has been
Speaker 3: following this story for US this morning. Tiwa, what do
Speaker 3: we know now about what happened?
Speaker 10: Kirk was at Utah Valley University as part of his
Speaker 10: political advocacy group Turning Point in Usay's American comeback tours,
Speaker 10: it's been dubbed, and he was taking part in an
Speaker 10: event entitled Proved Me Wrong, where the audience attempts to
Speaker 10: sort of stump the pundit. It's something he's widely known
Speaker 10: for online. And at that event where the shooting took place,
Speaker 10: there was more than three thousand people present, according to
Speaker 10: the university police chief.
Speaker 8: They also had put on security.
Speaker 10: There were six local police officers alongside Kirk's own security detail.
Speaker 10: But just twenty minutes after that event started, authorities say
Speaker 10: a single shot was fired at Kirk from a building
Speaker 10: about two hundred yards away. He had actually just begun
Speaker 10: answering a question on the number of mass shooters in
Speaker 10: America over the last decade, and after the shooting, he
Speaker 10: was driven to a local hospital where he later died
Speaker 10: according to police. So far we know that CCTV from
Speaker 10: the event does show a person dressed in dark clothing,
Speaker 10: which is believed to be the suspect, and the FBI
Speaker 10: director Cashpitel said on social media that a person of
Speaker 10: interest was taken into custody and then later released, so
Speaker 10: that investigation is still underway in Utah.
Speaker 2: Tell us about Charlie Kirk and why he was so
Speaker 2: influential and why he might have been targeted well.
Speaker 8: Charlie Kirk was perhaps best known for.
Speaker 10: His work as executive director of Turning Pount USA. He
Speaker 10: founded that group in twenty twelve and it was funded
Speaker 10: by powerful conservatives. But really the hallmark of his work
Speaker 10: was youth engagement and that took him to university campuses
Speaker 10: around the world. We mentioned earlier that trademark proved me
Speaker 10: wrong event Those debates often went viral on social media
Speaker 10: and really were a big part of his notoriety and fame.
Speaker 10: Just in May this year, he took part in a
Speaker 10: particularly important debates in the University of Cambridge's Union Society,
Speaker 10: which amassed millions of views on YouTube. He was known
Speaker 10: at times for controversial politics and statements, including criticism of
Speaker 10: Martin Luther King and other heavily questioned claims, but his
Speaker 10: work in politics started well before Turning Points Foundation. He
Speaker 10: began the advocacy and the involvement in politics really in
Speaker 10: high school. Notably, he wrote a now famous essay for
Speaker 10: Breitbart News about liberal bias and economic textbooks, and that
Speaker 10: in him a lot of media attention. He was a
Speaker 10: regular on channels like Fox Business as well as taking
Speaker 10: part in speaking engagements around the country. But that theme
Speaker 10: of what he really regarded as exposing and correcting liberal
Speaker 10: biases continued throughout his career. Definitely with Turning Point USA
Speaker 10: that welcomed conservative students who themselves were eager to prove
Speaker 10: these liberal biases on college campuses, the organization grew to
Speaker 10: an enormous size. It had more than eight hundred college
Speaker 10: chapters according to its website, and actually in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 10: their tax filings say they grossed nearly eighty five million
Speaker 10: dollars in revenue, but certainly in the last few years.
Speaker 10: He was instrumental in the MAGA movement and really a
Speaker 10: very valuable ally to President Trump. We saw the extent
Speaker 10: of that valued relationship in a really lengthy video posted
Speaker 10: by the President eulogizing him on social media. But in
Speaker 10: terms of the reasons for perhaps the targeting, we don't
Speaker 10: really know anything about the motivations behind this specific crime,
Speaker 10: but we've had from the Utah Governor Spencer Cox, who
Speaker 10: has described it as a political assassination, and others are
Speaker 10: coming to the same conclusion on social media today.
Speaker 3: Okay, t, thank you very much. That's our reporter too,
Speaker 3: had a bio there and we heard a little bit
Speaker 3: of President Trump's reaction to that killing earlier, and there's
Speaker 3: also been condemnation of the killing from the likes of
Speaker 3: Joe Biden and Barack Obama as well have offered their
Speaker 3: condolences to Charlie Kirk's family. Stay with us. More from
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Daybreak Europe coming up after this.
Speaker 8: Now to politics, who are in the UK.
Speaker 2: The emails between Peter Mandelson, the British ambassador to the
Speaker 2: United States, and the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein that have
Speaker 2: been seen by Bloomberg News interactions between twenty five and
Speaker 2: twenty twen, which reveal new details about their relationship. Our
Speaker 2: fun As reporter Harry Wilson joins us Now for more.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because Lord Manderson Peter Manderson a referenced the
Speaker 2: fact in recent TV interviews and commentaries that maybe more
Speaker 2: might emerge. What do we know about what has been
Speaker 2: said in these emails and what it reveals about their relationship?
Speaker 11: Well, the emails are really an extraordinary insights into the
Speaker 11: relationship between Peter Manderson and Jeffrey Epstein. I think what
Speaker 11: you see is just the depth of their friendship. The
Speaker 11: fact that Manderson was so supportive seemingly to Epstein throughout
Speaker 11: what is now obviously an incredibly controversial period in time.
Speaker 11: And I think it shows that Manderson it wasn't just supportive,
Speaker 11: he was an active, I guess, sort of helper in
Speaker 11: some ways of Epstein.
Speaker 3: These emails days from fifteen years ago. What do their
Speaker 3: publication now mean for Peter Mandelson and his current role.
Speaker 11: It remains to be seen. He's obviously under an enormous
Speaker 11: amount of pressure. The Prime Minister kissed Arma is under
Speaker 11: enormous pressure to react to this. There's countless cause now
Speaker 11: for Manderlsson to be removed from his post. I can't
Speaker 11: believe obviously that these emails will do anything to improve
Speaker 11: his situation. And I think there must be a clock
Speaker 11: ticking now on when the government reacts to it.
Speaker 2: And it's the question around judgment, isn't it. And Mandelson
Speaker 2: is obviously a well known political figure in the UK,
Speaker 2: instrumental in Tony Blair's government, but now we have a
Speaker 2: labor government in power and he is US ambassador all
Speaker 2: the more important. I mean he's a hugely well known figure.
Speaker 2: What has he said about this? In response?
Speaker 11: He's kept up a line which he's had actually really
Speaker 11: for many years, which is that he very much regrets
Speaker 11: his association with Epstein. He says, you know, this is
Speaker 11: association with him went on far too long. And frankly,
Speaker 11: this use of this word association is really quite ridiculous.
Speaker 11: I mean, it was a friendship that they had, It
Speaker 11: wasn't an association. That's just some mediam mouth words that
Speaker 11: he chooses to use. What we're seeing here is I
Speaker 11: think a slow I'm picking of a story that he
Speaker 11: has told about a friendship which he regrets, but which
Speaker 11: we see now was incredibly deep.
Speaker 2: And I suppose what does it mean for government? That's
Speaker 2: the other issue. How important is it when Mandelsohn is
Speaker 2: meant to be representing the UK in the US. This
Speaker 2: is a very difficult position for the Prime Minister, surely
Speaker 2: Kistarma to be. So what do you think is going
Speaker 2: to be the balance and the discussions that are being
Speaker 2: had maybe behind closed doors in government on this point.
Speaker 11: I think this is probably epically bad timing for the government.
Speaker 11: Next week we have Trump flying into the UK for
Speaker 11: his state visit and to have the ambassador to Washington
Speaker 11: embroiled in a Epstein scandal, which is obviously for the
Speaker 11: Trump administration a major sort of exposed nerve. So it's
Speaker 11: really hard to think of a worse situation for them
Speaker 11: at the time, and this must be hugely unwelcome.
Speaker 3: Harry, This series of emails has a lot of prosess
Speaker 3: a lot of questions as well, with a lot of
Speaker 3: factors unknown in them as well. Where do you see
Speaker 3: this story going from here? Are there further questions that
Speaker 3: are going to have to be answered about the content
Speaker 3: of There.
Speaker 11: Are going to be firm questions. I think it's people
Speaker 11: will want to know exactly what level of support was
Speaker 11: Mandelson providing to Epstein during his investigation and later incarceration
Speaker 11: for procuring sex from a minor. I mean, these were
Speaker 11: exceedingly serious charges and to say, now, well he was
Speaker 11: lied to and this sort of thing. But he's you know,
Speaker 11: he's a grown man, he's an educated man. I mean
Speaker 11: he should have known better.
Speaker 8: Harry, thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 2: The details of this story are in a long read
Speaker 2: and I would say to our listeners to have a
Speaker 2: look at it. UKM Bassat told Epstein, I think the
Speaker 2: World of View emails reveal. So this is a number
Speaker 2: of Blimberg reporters, including Harry Wilson, that you just heard
Speaker 2: there on these important revelations really around the emails and
Speaker 2: the content of the correspondence between Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 2: are dating back to the two thousand. So thanks to
Speaker 2: our finance reporter Harry Wilson, what to.
Speaker 3: Worth and he is now. Poland's Foreign ministry says that
Speaker 3: UN Security Council will hold a meeting to discuss the
Speaker 3: encouragement by Russian Joe into its airspace yesterday. The country's
Speaker 3: already saw consultations with NATO allies, which could lead to
Speaker 3: a joint response. Bloomberg Opinion columnist Mark Champion joins us.
Speaker 3: Now for more, Mark, you've been writing about this drone
Speaker 3: encouraging for Bloomberg Opinion. What are the I suppose, key
Speaker 3: things that we should be focusing on when thinking about
Speaker 3: the significance of.
Speaker 8: This, Yes, well, I think.
Speaker 12: Less perhaps what is done at the UN Security Council,
Speaker 12: which will be you know, given that Russia sits there
Speaker 12: has a veto, it will be you know, interesting theater.
Speaker 12: There will be plenty of fireworks and you know, diplomatically,
Speaker 12: you know, there'll be a lot of focus on it.
Speaker 12: But ultimately, this was a military operation and despite all
Speaker 12: you know Russian not denials but obfiscations, it's clearly a
Speaker 12: deliberate attempt from Russia at a time when they are
Speaker 12: conducting military exercises in Bulorus right over the border with
Speaker 12: Poland to test NATO air defenses. And that is really
Speaker 12: where the focus should be. And you know, what we
Speaker 12: know so far is that NATA really struggled. These were
Speaker 12: very very cheap drones. They're decoy drones as far as
Speaker 12: we know, you know, none of them were armed, and
Speaker 12: they're made of polystyrene and plywood. They cost about ten
Speaker 12: thousand dollars a piece to make from Chinese kits. And
Speaker 12: you know what they're getting shot down with by the
Speaker 12: F sixteens and F thirty fives that were scrambled. You know,
Speaker 12: the air to air missiles that those things use, they
Speaker 12: cost anywhere from about four hundred thousand to two million
Speaker 12: dollars a piece. And if they you know, apparently the
Speaker 12: Poles are also mobilized patriots, those missiles cost about four
Speaker 12: million dollars a piece. So they shot down maybe four
Speaker 12: of the twenty or so. We don't know all the
Speaker 12: details yet, and you know, whether they just couldn't shoot
Speaker 12: the rest down or they realized that they were decoys
Speaker 12: and that they were wasting huge sums of money bringing
Speaker 12: them down, we don't know. But Putin will have learned
Speaker 12: a good deal. And the important thing to watch, I think,
Speaker 12: is that you know, what does NATO learn, And it's
Speaker 12: going to need to learn a lot from the Ukrainians
Speaker 12: about how they are dealing with this threat, which is
Speaker 12: very difficult for them too. The question is how do
Speaker 12: you when a country can throw hundreds or up to a.
Speaker 8: Thousand drones at you in a wave.
Speaker 5: How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2: Okay, alarm bells on the basis of what you say,
Speaker 2: must be ringing loudly across Europe. And I just contrast
Speaker 2: that with what the first Sea lot here in Britain
Speaker 2: said this week about the DSi event. So this major
Speaker 2: gathering of the defense industry, basically the arms industry in London,
Speaker 2: and he's talking about my mission is to move the
Speaker 2: Rule Navy to war fighting readiness over the next four years.
Speaker 2: I mean, surely those sorts of statements that we're hearing about,
Speaker 2: you know, the length of time, that's the worry. How
Speaker 2: is Poland responding then to this? If they weren't able,
Speaker 2: as you say, to shoot everything down, what's the Polish response?
Speaker 12: Well, you know, in fairness to the polls, they are
Speaker 12: the one native country that has responded, you know, with
Speaker 12: urgency to the war in Ukraine. So they have massively
Speaker 12: increased their defense spending and now are you know, probably
Speaker 12: the second largest European military force after Turkey and Nata,
Speaker 12: and so you know they have responded the UK. In
Speaker 12: fairness to the UK also, it has a contract that
Speaker 12: they're just rolling out as it happens to mass produce
Speaker 12: interceptor drones with the Ukrainians.
Speaker 8: These are the.
Speaker 12: Things that you Ranians are turning to, you know, other small,
Speaker 12: other cheap drones that are a bit faster than these
Speaker 12: gerberas or the Ghiran drones, the shah heads, and they
Speaker 12: chase them and fight and shoot them down. The thing
Speaker 12: about this is that any solution is produced has to
Speaker 12: be dynamic, because as soon as you produce something, the
Speaker 12: Russians produce a counter and you then have to upgrade
Speaker 12: what you have.
Speaker 8: The Ukrainians are.
Speaker 12: Doing this all the time, every day in the field.
Speaker 12: They have direct lines of communication between the front lines
Speaker 12: and the people who are making the drones, the counter
Speaker 12: drones that ew, the electronic warfare equipment and so on,
Speaker 12: always feeding back. And this is the kind of thing
Speaker 12: that NATA is going to have to learn to do.
Speaker 12: And I think what they will be, you know, are
Speaker 12: beginning to understand is the only way that they can
Speaker 12: actually prepare a defense for themselves is to get more
Speaker 12: involved with the Ukrainians in in how they are manufacturing
Speaker 12: what they are manufacturing, which is what the UK has
Speaker 12: begun to do, which I think is a good sign.
Speaker 3: We heard Orislov underline yesterday in her Stage of the
Speaker 3: Union speech talk about the need for a wall of
Speaker 3: drones on the EU's eastern flank. I mean it's something
Speaker 3: like that realistic given what you're saying.
Speaker 12: Well, it is. I mean, it's what the Ukrainians are doing.
Speaker 12: The Ukrainians are producing millions of drones a year at
Speaker 12: this point, and it's what the rest of NATO has to,
Speaker 12: you know, think again about doing.
Speaker 8: If you think about what the Cold War looked.
Speaker 12: Like with tens of thousands of battle tanks, you know,
Speaker 12: lined up on either side, I think the way we
Speaker 12: need to think about this is, you know, these are
Speaker 12: in what is a new you know, cold War style
Speaker 12: conflict is developing. You know, the drones are the new
Speaker 12: battle tanks and we're going to have to mass produce them.
Speaker 12: They are the things that are going to protect us
Speaker 12: because the warfare now it can be done. It doesn't
Speaker 12: have to be conducted on lat end. The Russians have
Speaker 12: demonstrated that it's possible to conduct or at a long
Speaker 12: range level and it doesn't matter if you're the UK
Speaker 12: or if you're Poland, you can be hit.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So, you know I' imagining some of those lines
Speaker 2: of Jones. As you say, in terms of the US,
Speaker 2: surely the US response around NATO, maybe even the US
Speaker 2: president's response around this incursion into Poland is actually the
Speaker 2: thing that everybody is waiting for him. And there were
Speaker 2: some statements out of the US military about NATO, but
Speaker 2: is that what people are waiting for.
Speaker 12: Absolutely what Trump does in the next few days is critical.
Speaker 12: The initial response that he had on true social is
Speaker 12: very worrying. Essentially what he said was, you know, what's
Speaker 12: what's this with you know, Poland? Russia sending drones at Poland?
Speaker 8: Here we go.
Speaker 12: It's like, you know, he's a spectator in the stands
Speaker 12: of an ice hockey game or something, and that is what,
Speaker 12: you know, the rest of NATA will be very concerned about.
Speaker 12: It's what Russia and China will be watching for. And
Speaker 12: in fact, you know, not so long ago, Sky News
Speaker 12: put together a very interesting wargame where in order to test,
Speaker 12: you know, what what would happen if Russia was to
Speaker 12: attack the UK and the kind of core element in
Speaker 12: that wargame it became clear immediately was the first action
Speaker 12: of the Prime Minister was to get on the phone
Speaker 12: to Washington make sure that Washington took the UK side
Speaker 12: and supported it fully. What actually happens in the wargame
Speaker 12: is that you know, Washington doesn't. It's kind of a
Speaker 12: bit of a spectator and it's just both sidei ism
Speaker 12: and that leads to a recognition that the UK really
Speaker 12: can't compete with Russia because he doesn't have US support.
Speaker 12: This is the sort of thing that all of NATO
Speaker 12: will be worrying about.
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