WEBVTT - Hey You Kids, Get Off My Feed: Influencer Fights 

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth, what's up? You know I'm doing? How you doing? Good? Good?

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<v Speaker 3>Good?

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<v Speaker 2>Nice? I'm on the right side of the bars.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I know, above ground and getting paid.

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<v Speaker 2>You know how we do.

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<v Speaker 3>That's us, that's us. You know, it's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>I do, Elizabeth, Oh do I I was you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know how we do? Both of us. We read

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<v Speaker 2>do stories and we're like, oh, could that be something

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<v Speaker 2>I tell the other? And a funny story? Well, this

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<v Speaker 2>one was in a full episode, but it's definitely worth

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<v Speaker 2>me telling you.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So the headline is Prior Lake woman arrested with bag

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<v Speaker 2>of drugs labeled definitely not a bag of drugs. Oh no,

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<v Speaker 2>So this forty eight year old woman from the Prior

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<v Speaker 2>Lake area. She had a bag labeled definitely not a

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<v Speaker 2>bag of drugs and the midnight, just before midnight on

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<v Speaker 2>New Year's Eve, she was a pulled over for suspicion

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<v Speaker 2>of drunk driving. And this was all due to the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that the police when they pulled her over for

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<v Speaker 2>swerving on this one boulevard, police asked the woman if

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<v Speaker 2>she'd been drinking. She responded a lot. She added that

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<v Speaker 2>she took a yegger bomb just before driving, like one

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<v Speaker 2>for the road Elizabeth, and she had been drinking Jamison

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<v Speaker 2>and red bulls all night.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>So they breathalyzed her. Right test comeback blood alcohol is

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<v Speaker 2>point one nine, which is double legal limit. Right. So

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<v Speaker 2>the police they arrest the woman and then they started

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<v Speaker 2>to go through her car and she tells them if

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<v Speaker 2>they do, they're going to quote find a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>in her car. So the officers indeed found a brown

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<v Speaker 2>bag with the riding on it. In the bag was

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<v Speaker 2>get this fourteen individual psychedelic mushrooms, so magic mushrooms, the

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<v Speaker 2>pot brownie. The police also found some more just loose pot,

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<v Speaker 2>some cocaine, three pills of Motorden fidel. It's like, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess it's profagill. It's an antidepressant and an oxy codon

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<v Speaker 2>pill in her bag. Definitely not a bag full of trucks.

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<v Speaker 3>My gosh, was on an adventure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. This is January seventh of this year that I

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<v Speaker 2>saw this story report.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope she turns her life around.

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<v Speaker 2>I just love her, like real or candor. She's like, look,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like people lie to their doctor. Yeah, why no,

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<v Speaker 2>you know look, you got it. All all the evidence

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<v Speaker 2>is there. You're going to find some stuff in my bag, not.

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<v Speaker 3>The misleading bag you've been drinking. I love it a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, there you go, ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>This is ridiculous. Do you want to know what else

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<v Speaker 3>is ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love to beige the color.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is ridiculous. Crime a podcast about absurd and

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<v Speaker 3>outrageous capers. He and cons. It's always ninety nine percent

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<v Speaker 3>murder free and one percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Damn right.

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<v Speaker 3>I know I've mentioned influencers here before.

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<v Speaker 2>You have.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a phenomenon. I just don't understand. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>understand following a person online because you like their fashion

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<v Speaker 3>or lifestyle choices, Like who cares you really? Don't you

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<v Speaker 3>understand I don't make anything. They just pose with things,

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<v Speaker 3>or like they show their butts on beaches.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, but sometimes they do like there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of outfit of the day, or buy this look kind

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff, or like musicians whore Like I found this

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<v Speaker 2>shop that sells these records.

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<v Speaker 3>It's different thans a musician who's trying to get like

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<v Speaker 3>a side hustle. I found a shop that sells records.

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<v Speaker 2>I also will sell a look often so that you

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<v Speaker 2>know they will sell propus.

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<v Speaker 3>The ones that really creep me out are the parents

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<v Speaker 3>who put their kids on social media.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, are they still doing that?

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah? Well sometimes I'll see a video on Instagram

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<v Speaker 3>of some kid doing something that's cute, and for a moment,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm all, and then I immediately snap out of it

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, that is so exploitive and how dangerous,

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<v Speaker 3>Like there are a lot of creeps out there.

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<v Speaker 2>I think people need to have these different tiers of exposure,

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<v Speaker 2>Like there should be some things like for friends and family,

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<v Speaker 2>and then some things for the group chat, and then

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<v Speaker 2>some things for like wider public consertion. They need like

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<v Speaker 2>inside jokes, outside jokes, like this is not an outside joke,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I'm not saying that's not funny, but it's really

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<v Speaker 2>offensive to a large so maybe don't make that joke.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly Exactly. In my family, we've got like the the

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<v Speaker 3>group chats that involve like what we call content pictures

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<v Speaker 3>of and videos of my nephew. But he never appears

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<v Speaker 3>on no one ever puts anything online.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, no matter how cute or funny he is.

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<v Speaker 2>Although I have to say he was on America's Funny

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<v Speaker 2>Somethings Videos, so there is a little bit of it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>A videos I forgot about.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is aside from Burnette.

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<v Speaker 3>I totally anyway, I gotta let kids be kids. So

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<v Speaker 3>I'm guilty of doom scrolling online, oh yeah, and getting

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<v Speaker 3>dragged into like endless streams of Instagram reels because it

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<v Speaker 3>takes me a while to kind of likes. I'll say like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to bed, and then an hour later, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>still laying there, but I can't just fall asleep. And

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<v Speaker 3>so you know, I have to say that I think

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<v Speaker 3>things began to fall apart for us as a society

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<v Speaker 3>with social media. I said this to you the other day.

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<v Speaker 2>You do.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the intention is great, connecting people, blah blah blah. Sure,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's become a poison. It's terrible. It messes with

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<v Speaker 3>people's heads.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's the what, it's the how.

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<v Speaker 3>No, it is it's the how too, like when you

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<v Speaker 3>monetize and m and the whole thing. It works for

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<v Speaker 3>both sides of the influencer equation. So you have the

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<v Speaker 3>consumers seeing these videos and photos of altered reality and

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<v Speaker 3>wanting it for themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>The images are manipulated, not just like with photoshop or whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>but like the behind the scenes tricks, so it's an unreality.

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<v Speaker 3>They make a place look amazing and then tourists descend

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<v Speaker 3>on it and turn it into a hellscape. They pretend

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<v Speaker 3>to eat some confection, whether it's like an improbable pastry

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<v Speaker 3>or like a milkshake esque coffee drink.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah mean you know they're not actually drinking.

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<v Speaker 3>No, they'll like buy it like pose and then throw

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<v Speaker 3>it away and everyone swarms on the places like locusts

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<v Speaker 3>and they disappear for the next thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And all the camera tricks that are involved in presentation

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<v Speaker 2>yeah yeah, I'm not talking like actual editing force perspectives.

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<v Speaker 3>On the other end of it, the influencers create an

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<v Speaker 3>unreality in which they live like they demand freebies and deals.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, They block walkways in airports and like tables

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<v Speaker 3>at restaurants to film idiotic clips. They come to believe

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<v Speaker 3>their own hype. Yes, I'm sure it takes work to

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<v Speaker 3>launch oneself as an influencer effort, but I don't believe

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<v Speaker 3>it takes.

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<v Speaker 2>Talent, No persistence, I think is what it takes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they aren't creating anything. They're serving corporate, capitalist, consumerist interests,

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<v Speaker 3>like they are tools of a commercial machine.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say that there has to be some talent

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<v Speaker 2>for some of the real goers because of the ones

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<v Speaker 2>who other people end up imitating. There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>imitation in the space of influence.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's more luck than talent. They're fungible, right,

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<v Speaker 3>and even more so as they all start to look

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<v Speaker 3>like each other. But I think for whatever reason, and

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes when one of them hits, is that because of

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<v Speaker 3>corporate influence, that extends their reach further than there is

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<v Speaker 3>one to try it. You know, Organically they get enough followers,

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<v Speaker 3>they start to feel that like their fame.

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<v Speaker 2>Is far reaching, right, Yeah, and it's real.

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<v Speaker 3>They start to with like the whole don't you know

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<v Speaker 3>who I am? Thing? Like when they are denied what

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<v Speaker 3>they want.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a super big sized version of do you

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<v Speaker 2>know my dad is?

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<v Speaker 3>Totally? And like what they want is like free stuff

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<v Speaker 3>or preferential treatment. And as a rule, I find I

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<v Speaker 3>don't really patronize the same establishments as these folks.

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<v Speaker 2>Businesses, locales, travel destinations.

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<v Speaker 3>One time you and I were at Heifeiberger in Oakland

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<v Speaker 3>to check it out, and there was a food influencer

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<v Speaker 3>there who like set up a camera array at one

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<v Speaker 3>of the tables to record himself, just like putting the

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<v Speaker 3>hurt on a.

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<v Speaker 2>Birthday tabletop tripod. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I was mesmerized and it was like cringe inducing and

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<v Speaker 3>for me it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like a sociological experiment or like being a naturalist like

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<v Speaker 2>in his actual environment. The influencer.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've talked about scammer influencers. Yes, what about influencer

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<v Speaker 3>on influencer beef.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, let's on that one.

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<v Speaker 3>So, like there are food influencers like you know little

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<v Speaker 3>kid at Heifeiberger, but also style influencers. Obviously one of

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<v Speaker 3>those cats is Ben Yang aka Ben Baller. I have

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<v Speaker 3>to establish first, like before I go into this, all

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<v Speaker 3>the people I name don't come at me like I'm

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<v Speaker 3>doing you a favor. I'm talking about you, So don't

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<v Speaker 3>get mad at me. Influencers, You're welcome spreading their reach.

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<v Speaker 3>You're welcome anyway. Yeah, I know, right. So, Ben Yang

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<v Speaker 3>aka Ben Baller he is an LA based entrepreneur whose

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<v Speaker 3>public identity is built around three overlapping careers, entertainment work,

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<v Speaker 3>celebrity facing custom jewelry and influencer media, so like podcasts

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<v Speaker 3>and social platforms. He's a triple threat Zerin. Apparently he

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<v Speaker 3>was your typical LA entertainment industry operator. He got to

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<v Speaker 3>start in the music industry. He was a VP of

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<v Speaker 3>A and R AT Priority Records. Okay, his family owned

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<v Speaker 3>a jewelry shop, and then he pivoted to that at

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<v Speaker 3>some point and he became closely associated with custom quote

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<v Speaker 3>iced out jewelry for musicians and entertainers, like pave stuff

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<v Speaker 3>is basically you know when I think of like what

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<v Speaker 3>you know looks iced out jewelers. Yes, yes, I found

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of interviews with the guy, and all I

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<v Speaker 3>can say is that I I had to control my

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<v Speaker 3>rage for some reason. This guy irritates the potatoes out

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<v Speaker 3>of me. There's this interview in Flaunt magazine right there,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's basically gibberish. Here's a sample. Here's the question.

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<v Speaker 3>When you were a VP A of an R AT

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<v Speaker 3>Priority Records, what was jewelry in your life at that point?

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<v Speaker 3>That's the question, what je what was jewelry in your

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<v Speaker 3>life at that point? You're a phenomenal interviewer, it was

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<v Speaker 3>still here's his response. I loved it, but working in

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<v Speaker 3>the corporate world is interesting. I was making good money.

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<v Speaker 3>If you deserve to make money, then you should make money,

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<v Speaker 3>meaning if you have points on a record points would

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<v Speaker 3>translate to somewhat ownership, but not really. If you're making

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<v Speaker 3>good money at a record label and doing well, you

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<v Speaker 3>should be rewarded with the right salary. A lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people are doing well and they haven't hit it yet.

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<v Speaker 3>I hadn't necessarily hit it yet at Priority, even though

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<v Speaker 3>we had successes. The structure of the label back then,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not necessarily set up for anybody to eat but

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<v Speaker 3>the CEO. Some people can, some people can't. You have

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<v Speaker 3>to be in the right position. I went in there

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<v Speaker 3>literally out of my means. I wanted to wear Versace,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever the fly is. Clothes were have all the cool

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<v Speaker 3>drive a fly car. It's funnier every time I think

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<v Speaker 3>about it, what made me happy or what I really

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<v Speaker 3>looked forward to and that lifestyle. I wake up daily

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<v Speaker 3>now and I laugh. Everything I wanted then, whether it

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<v Speaker 3>was jewelry or anything. Even if a watch is completely

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<v Speaker 3>inflated in price, watch prices are now the worst they've

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<v Speaker 3>ever been. Some watches that cost fifty or sixty grand.

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<v Speaker 3>They're one hundred and fifty two hundred grand. Now, even

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<v Speaker 3>at that price, if I really really wanted it, I'll

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<v Speaker 3>go buy ten or twenty of them. It's nothing I

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<v Speaker 3>really care about, sir.

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<v Speaker 2>The question was is this your sake?

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.559
<v Speaker 3>Let's go back to the original question when you were

0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.079
<v Speaker 3>VP of A and R at Priority Records. Was jewelry

0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.320
<v Speaker 3>in your life at that point? Much of the rest

0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.280
<v Speaker 3>of the interview is about a custom gold mini fridge. Yeah,

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.560
<v Speaker 3>the whole thing. I was like, am I having a stroke?

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I'd have to clarify because they'resually saying words and I

0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.040
<v Speaker 2>think I know what they mean, but maybe not. When

0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:17.760
<v Speaker 2>you say a gold mini fridge, is this a mini

0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.960
<v Speaker 2>fridge to keep your gold cold? Or is this actually.

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Made of gold gold plated miniature?

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>I decided to be clarified.

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.360
<v Speaker 3>I know, I know. The La Times they did a

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.640
<v Speaker 3>profile of him in twenty sixteen about his menswear venture.

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh lord.

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 3>They talked about his quote improbable, career.

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Arc improbable, that's something an insult, Yeah.

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.679
<v Speaker 3>And they said that part of the jewelry business was

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.560
<v Speaker 3>funded by selling a his sneaker collection for He sold

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.319
<v Speaker 3>it for more than a million dollars.

0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 2>He was like a mad shoe beest.

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I guess.

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:48.480
<v Speaker 2>So.

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 3>The jewelry business is icy Fresh icee like the seven

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.319
<v Speaker 3>eleven ries, but now it goes by IF and Co.

0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.199
<v Speaker 2>It's seven eleven threatened to suit.

0:12:59.400 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 3>There are categories on the store website like Jesus Pieces,

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:05.959
<v Speaker 3>which is different from Reese's Pieces.

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.000
<v Speaker 2>And these are just like in golden crusted and diamond

0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 2>and crusty cross. Yeah, because you know Jesus. The first

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:13.440
<v Speaker 2>thing you'd want to see is that.

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.320
<v Speaker 3>He was like, I love it so much, I'm going

0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 3>to kick these tables over.

0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I bet the poor really are benefiting from this.

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.160
<v Speaker 3>This is perfect for me. There's also cryptocurrency jewelry.

0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Of course, there is wolf jewelry, wolf heads.

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 3>And royal jewelry and this is what it says under there,

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 3>Please enter the realm of majesty with IF In Companies

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 3>Royal Jewelry Collection. This exquisite range is a celebration of

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 3>royal elegance, featuring designs inspired by kings, queens, crowns, and

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 3>the grandeur of nightly valor. Each piece in this collection

0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.440
<v Speaker 3>is a testament to the opulence and pressed of royalty

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 3>and it's basically like the king and queen faces from

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 3>decks of cards what I'm not kidding and then a

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 3>crown or two.

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>It's that like mid century cool, like oh Prince ran

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Year were I watch Heavens?

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 3>No his personal logo I remember, it's Ben Baller is

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 3>an overlapping BB that's a rip off of the Rolls

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 3>Royce logo. Oh yeah yeah. Oh, and he has a podcast,

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 3>Cold de Ice with Ben Baller and Jimmy Boy.

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Boy is Jimmy Boy is all.

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 3>One word and boy is bo I. Okay, it's not

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 3>an iHeart joint, thank goud, that would be awkward. Apparently

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 3>he's bailed on that project though.

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 3>No, he pivoted to short form podcast TikTok videos yeah,

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.760
<v Speaker 3>something he calls free game, which is just him Like

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.600
<v Speaker 3>it looks like just talking to the camera for a

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 3>little bit.

0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't bring myself to watch any of that.

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.360
<v Speaker 2>I love us becoming again an oral culture.

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Yes, here's what those have to offer the viewer. Jewelry

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 3>and business insights.

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Rising grind and also gets you shot.

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:02.160
<v Speaker 4>Oh.

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.479
<v Speaker 3>He shares his expertise as a celebrity jeweler and entrepreneur

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 3>Lifestyle and culture, where he discusses trends, culture and his interests,

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 3>including golf, and then quick valuable content short punchy episodes

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 3>or clips offering valuable insights as he aims to provide

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 3>quote free game.

0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Ah, so what do you drops three grand? This is

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.640
<v Speaker 2>like say, like dating advice, maybe some dietary advice. Yeah,

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 2>his take on international relations.

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, plant your seeds early. Yeah, there's that whole golf thing.

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 3>Like he's a golf guy.

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Now, guess is that codes wealthy?

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.280
<v Speaker 3>But we're getting away from one.

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>But he's think it's getting into skiing soon because that's

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the thing.

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 3>Because there's Saudi money in golf, all right, and that's

0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 3>what he's all about. Okay, so we're getting away from

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 3>why we're here though.

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, please crime, drag us back crime.

0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 3>Ben Baller and his wife Nicolette Yang. They were hosting

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 3>a birthday party for their seven year old son. Nicolette

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 3>called up this bakery in La Studio City called Big

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.040
<v Speaker 3>Sugar Bake Shop. It's like a cute popular place.

0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 2>How about they probably.

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Nicolette asked for a cake with a quote modern mad science.

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 3>Birthday party theme and then she gave him a reference image.

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Thank god.

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 3>The cake and the photograph had a beaker spilling on

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 3>the top and like a play on the periodic table,

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 3>and then these like pill like jelly beans had fallen

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.600
<v Speaker 3>out of the beaker and like all around on the bottom.

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>It's like a big, breaking bad fan bea stuff.

0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 3>So Big Sugar sent an invoice that itemized all the

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 3>design components and the pricing, including a line item described

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 3>as pills fifteen dollars. Nicolette responded positively to this invoice

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 3>and said, okay, sounds great. That's a direct quote. Really

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 3>it is, okay, sounds great, and asked for a frosting

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 3>color change, like it sounds great, but can we make this?

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.639
<v Speaker 3>Big Sugar amended and resent the invoice, and it still

0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 3>said pills fifteen dollars. So there is one matter at

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 3>dispute here. Did Nicolette tell the bakery that the cake

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 3>was for a kid? She says yes, The bakery says no,

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 3>oh no. So when the cake arrived, the Yangs freaked out.

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 3>What looked like jellybeans in the reference picture came to

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 3>life on the actual cake. As fond of decorations that

0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.680
<v Speaker 3>look like realistic.

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Pills, ecstasy pills, all sorts.

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:41.359
<v Speaker 3>Of like you know, exact exactly. So we had the dispute,

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.720
<v Speaker 3>is this for a kid? And then there was the

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.399
<v Speaker 3>dispute how did it go down? Once the cake was

0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:52.640
<v Speaker 3>turned over? So, as ben Baller tells it, he phoned

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 3>and he sought an apology and a refund, and he

0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.240
<v Speaker 3>calmly said it was inappropriate to put drugs on a

0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 3>seven year old's cake, and he claimed that the bakery

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 3>employee was rude, blamed his wife and suggested they thought

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.560
<v Speaker 3>the cake was for a pharmacy school graduate, and then

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 3>they hung up on him. In Big Sugar's account of

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 3>what happened, employees said ben Baller immediately threatened the bakery

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 3>with his platform, saying he had a TV show, a podcast,

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 3>and over a million followers who would quote destroy Big Sugar,

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.600
<v Speaker 3>I will injure you. They said, he used all sorts

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 3>of foul language and a variety of threats over multiple

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:35.400
<v Speaker 3>phone calls. Yes, so the bakery they're like, okay, we triage,

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.720
<v Speaker 3>we got to fix this. So they started making a

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.679
<v Speaker 3>replacement immediately because the party was still hours away, and

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.360
<v Speaker 3>so you have to imagine they have blanks like unfrosted

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 3>rounds of cake on hand, and they just got to

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 3>decorating as quickly.

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm with it.

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.399
<v Speaker 3>And then they delivered the second cake to the Yangs,

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 3>but it wasn't enough. So within minutes of the calls

0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 3>after he's calling him threatening, Ben Yang, Hey, Ben Baller,

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 3>he starts posting about Big Sugar on social media.

0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Before the issues resolved.

0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, nasty, threatening messages. He gave the name in the

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.080
<v Speaker 3>location of the bakery. He posted about how the baker

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:18.520
<v Speaker 3>quote up royally and is now quote legit canceled. On Twitter,

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.320
<v Speaker 3>he wrote quote instead of jellybeans, they put RX prescription

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 3>pills on my seven year old's beatay cake emoji. And

0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 3>then two days later he discussed the incident on his podcast.

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, so what happened next is like totally by

0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 3>the outrage playbook, So Big Sugar. They start getting calls

0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:39.640
<v Speaker 3>and messages from his followers.

0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he actually does have followers that are not international.

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 2>They actually could get to the phone system contact him.

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 3>Angry stuff. People threatened the staff, they left bad reviews.

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.920
<v Speaker 3>They said they contacted authorities about how the bakery put pills.

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.360
<v Speaker 2>On a kid's can actual drugs.

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:59.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like honey, that's gonna costs the costume more than

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 3>fifteenth dollars to get actual. So then Big Sugar notified

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Ben Baller via Twitter that they were receiving these threats.

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 3>He shot back that they were trying to quote play

0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.320
<v Speaker 3>the victim. So they go to their lawyers through council.

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 3>They demand that Baller retract or correct what they said

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 3>were false statements. My friend Ben Baller did not retract

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 3>or correct. No lawsuit times. So then they go after

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 3>him for libel, slander, unfair competition law which prohibits false

0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 3>or misleading advertising, and illegal business practices. Nine offensive social

0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 3>media posts were cited in the lawsuit. Nine yeah he.

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 3>Baller responded with a special motion to strike under California's

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 3>anti slap statute because he said his statements were protected

0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.399
<v Speaker 3>speech made in connection with an issue of public interest.

0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, this tends on what kind of lawyers you

0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 2>have to argue this.

0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.719
<v Speaker 3>Because he said there was quote candy confusion, and then

0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.920
<v Speaker 3>this was a consumer safety issue. And then he said

0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 3>also because he was famous, it made it newsworthy.

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Famous.

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there it is. The trial court was like, no

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.640
<v Speaker 3>motion denied. He appealed too far.

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 2>He appeared gotten further, of course he did, and then.

0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.920
<v Speaker 3>The California's Second District Court of Appeal September third, twenty

0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 3>twenty one denied, and their headline conclusion was simple like

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 3>this was a private customer dispute over a cake order,

0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 3>not made in any connection with an issue of public interest,

0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.640
<v Speaker 3>which is what's required for anti slap. The court also

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 3>rejected the idea that audience size or self described celebrity

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:49.680
<v Speaker 3>status automatically turns ordinary grievances into public issue speech, and

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.400
<v Speaker 3>they the court viewed his post it aimed at trying

0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.400
<v Speaker 3>to rally a crowd against a specific business rather than

0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:00.880
<v Speaker 3>participating in a broader public conversation. So important thing this, though,

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 3>the ruling didn't decide who was right about the cake,

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.360
<v Speaker 3>and I couldn't find out what happened to the original lawsuits,

0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.120
<v Speaker 3>so I'm going to imagine they settled. Big Sugar Bake

0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 3>Shop is now permanently closed, although I don't think it's

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 3>because of this.

0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, so this is just on their unfortunate.

0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, let's stop for some ads and when we come back,

0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.359
<v Speaker 3>more influencers.

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Zarin Elizabeth.

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:48.040
<v Speaker 3>This is the story of two influencers inside all of

0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 3>us are two influencers. So we begin with Sydney Nicole Gifford.

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.159
<v Speaker 3>She's a lifestyle and shopping focused social media influencer who

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:04.240
<v Speaker 3>built a business around promoting consumer products, especially through Amazon's

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:05.840
<v Speaker 3>influencer ecosystem.

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, any relation to Kathy Lee Gifford, let's say, sure what? No, Oh,

0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:12.640
<v Speaker 2>I got too excited.

0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm really excited about that.

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.120
<v Speaker 2>There's a connection to Regis Philbin in this reag she's

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.440
<v Speaker 2>one degree away from Regis Elizabeth be.

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:26.439
<v Speaker 3>Careful, tread lightly. So she's an Amazon influencer. Yes, this

0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.840
<v Speaker 3>bums me out. Why I don't know that.

0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Like, what's the difference between Amazon influencer and a TikTok

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Because Emma's.

0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Not even like, well, no Amazon, she's on all these

0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:38.160
<v Speaker 3>various platforms, but she's just chilling for Amazon.

0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I assume she's moving product and she just

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 2>goes through lots of products and all of her post

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:47.000
<v Speaker 2>her like that I found this on Amazon.

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:50.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly. And so her whole operation is this family endeavor.

0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:55.720
<v Speaker 3>Like her mom is pretty much her manager. She handles

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 3>like the business emails and logistics. The mom, Laura, says

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.280
<v Speaker 3>that her daughter was making stop motion videos and uploading

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.360
<v Speaker 3>them to YouTube at age twelve, okay, and that her

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 3>influencer platform took off several years later.

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 2>So all I hear. She's a talented little filmmaker and

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:13.800
<v Speaker 2>she's just trying to make her in the world think

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 2>of it, spread her joy.

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.720
<v Speaker 3>When Ben Wyatt was depressed on parks and recreation, he

0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 3>tried to make the stop motion in months to make

0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 3>just like three seconds. That's her. So in all sorts

0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 3>of media coverage, Gifford is repeatedly described as cultivating a

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 3>highly consistent neutral palette in her home and content. Okay,

0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 3>The Verge magazine describes her home environment as a content

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:43.080
<v Speaker 3>quote set, filled with Amazon products and maintained in an

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.119
<v Speaker 3>intentionally monochrome look.

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's like kind of like a Martha Stewart,

0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.240
<v Speaker 2>but without any of the soul brings her.

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.240
<v Speaker 3>We'll get to her her income, really, Yeah, her income

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:58.360
<v Speaker 3>is tied to promoting products and earning commissions, and all

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:01.160
<v Speaker 3>these products have a certain like vibe.

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 2>So she's like a Truman show meets a Showcase showdown

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>on prices.

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Right, there's an aesthetic. Can I vent for a second.

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Aren't you already?

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:12.280
<v Speaker 3>That's all I do. I do nothing but vent.

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:17.720
<v Speaker 3>I know. I talk a lot about what and it

0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 3>usually involves the younger set. I'm an old crone. I

0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:25.200
<v Speaker 3>can't stand when people use the word esthetic to mean

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 3>just basically pleasing or nice looking, like oh, that sunset

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.639
<v Speaker 3>is so aesthetic. Oh yes, no, that does hit the

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:37.200
<v Speaker 3>just like something can have an esthetic like Rococo, nerd Core,

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 3>little House in the Prairie. I don't know. Something can

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:41.720
<v Speaker 3>be aesthetically pleasing.

0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Sure, as a philosophy, they can be your aesthetic.

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 3>Precisely as a philosophy, you know, it's exploring the very

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 3>nature of beauty and art. It comes from the Greek

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:59.879
<v Speaker 3>right esthetia estheticos perception to perceive, you have to perceive

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 3>something though, there needs to be an object. Yes, okay,

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:05.359
<v Speaker 3>I'm done. I just need to get that out. This

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 3>is so aesthetic, you're like, so, now let's meet. Let's

0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 3>meet Alyssa Shield.

0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>We have to no.

0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Alyssy Shield. Alyssa's Shield Alissa Shiel. She's also a lifestyle

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:26.399
<v Speaker 3>influencer working heavily in Amazon linked product promotion. Both of

0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 3>these gals have like half a million people following them

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:32.959
<v Speaker 3>across various platforms, and both of these gals share a

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:38.119
<v Speaker 3>color palette and look something that became known as sad

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 3>beige in all the media coverage. Sad baby, Yeah, like

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:45.560
<v Speaker 3>hashtag sad basis.

0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:46.600
<v Speaker 2>She's a sad creator.

0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:50.119
<v Speaker 3>They actually look alike. They both have long brown hair,

0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:54.200
<v Speaker 3>straight parted down the middle, like lightly bronzed skin. Everything

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 3>else beige clothes, house, everything have you. The meal beige.

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.879
<v Speaker 2>Color hearts of like like the colors I saw on today,

0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:05.280
<v Speaker 2>it was like interior and exterior colors people used for

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.359
<v Speaker 2>their home environments, for both for the paint and for

0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.399
<v Speaker 2>the design inside their home. And you go from like

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 2>six different colors, six different colors for the twenties, the

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>thirty six different colors in the forties, six different colors

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>in the fifties. Get to the seventies and they kind

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.479
<v Speaker 2>of like lose their mind on drugs from the sixties

0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 2>and everything goes like orange brown and avocado green. Then

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:24.280
<v Speaker 2>the eighties you get this like the last little bit.

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Then the nineties it just wash it out into the

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.320
<v Speaker 2>beginning of like earth tones, and then the two thousands

0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.119
<v Speaker 2>just like beige is and now we're just down to

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.359
<v Speaker 2>like slate gray and beige.

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:41.400
<v Speaker 3>It's really sad. By twenty twenty four that esthetic neutral, minimalist,

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.919
<v Speaker 3>dominated by beige, cream, all these muted tones. That was

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:48.960
<v Speaker 3>like everything with these lifestyle influencers.

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.199
<v Speaker 2>I still get well. I know for home resale, it's like, oh,

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:53.240
<v Speaker 2>it's easy for people to do that, but for your

0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.200
<v Speaker 2>life environment, do you plan to live there?

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:56.400
<v Speaker 3>More color in my life?

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know, I love color.

0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:59.359
<v Speaker 3>I was reading something the other day where a person

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:01.600
<v Speaker 3>was trying to just on a color for their cabinets

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.320
<v Speaker 3>and they wanted something gray or beige grays, and there

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:07.080
<v Speaker 3>were all these comments that were like, that's a really

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:08.920
<v Speaker 3>good choice because when you go to sell the house,

0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:11.439
<v Speaker 3>people want to see neutrals. But as you're saying, like

0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 3>you have to, this person just moved in.

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:15.600
<v Speaker 2>That's like my friends who would buy it, we'd get

0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:17.080
<v Speaker 2>toys and they wouldn't want to take it out of

0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the box because they plan on reselling. This will be

0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:22.719
<v Speaker 2>worth of it. I'm like my toys to play with

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:26.160
<v Speaker 2>the toys with the market value. We are nine years old.

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:29.359
<v Speaker 3>This is the attitude we have because these like these

0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.119
<v Speaker 3>things that need to be staged, ready to move, because like,

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 3>homes have become investments far more than domiciles, and so

0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:38.680
<v Speaker 3>like you have to live in the place, enjoy this

0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 3>and habit. Yes, color brings.

0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Enjoyment, Oh it does. It vibes you into places you

0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know you want to go.

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 3>And not every place has to look like a hotel.

0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh no it should not.

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Anyway, so the influencers called this look clean, which

0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:54.640
<v Speaker 3>my response is cluttered and messy.

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No, I like, I reserve clean for really good.

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, man, you look clean, right, But that's like

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:02.200
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to be like sterile.

0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:06.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't using a better word for marketing purposes,

0:29:06.080 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 3>but that's what they're selling. And so they kept these

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.640
<v Speaker 3>things neutral when it came to fashion home decor, like

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:18.000
<v Speaker 3>other consumer products appliances, cars, luggage, prosthetic limbs.

0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:21.600
<v Speaker 2>I said to show that in there for you, Elizabeth Dutton, body.

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.320
<v Speaker 3>There it is. So their followers were all about this

0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 3>subdued palette, minimalistic composition. But there wasn't room enough in

0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 3>this town for two sad beij ladies. It seems Gifford

0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:37.400
<v Speaker 3>thought that Shiel was biting her style or lack thereof,

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:39.360
<v Speaker 3>So in April.

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:42.080
<v Speaker 2>They're both biting styles, like how can they We either

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.720
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be like this is totally my esthetics.

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 3>In April of twenty twenty four, Gifford filed a lawsuit

0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 3>in federal court in the Western District of Texas against

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Shiel and The lawsuit alleged that Shiel had systematically copied

0:29:56.960 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 3>Gifford's signature neutral beige slash cream esthetic and leveraged it

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:06.760
<v Speaker 3>to promote similar products, thereby infringing on Gifford's intellectual property

0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 3>and commercial identity. Gifford's complaint included a range of legal claims,

0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:16.480
<v Speaker 3>so she was talking about copyright infringement, okay. She said

0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 3>that Shield's social media posts bore unauthorized similarity to Gifford's

0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 3>original content. Oh, trade dress infringement, asserting that the overall

0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:28.920
<v Speaker 3>look and feel of her aesthetic was distinctive and should

0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:29.560
<v Speaker 3>be protected.

0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 2>So you can't also dress like Ronald McDonald is like

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and how to tell burgers let you.

0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Go, misappropriation of likeness. She said that sheield replicated aspects

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 3>of her personal image and presentation like a single white

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:47.760
<v Speaker 3>female and then violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act DMCA.

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh, just basic copyright, Like, oh, you did what I

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 2>did online?

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly I did online. So lawyers for Gifford said

0:30:56.160 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 3>that her visual style was her distinctive commercial idea, and

0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:05.760
<v Speaker 3>they argue that the consistent monochrome, cream gray, and neutral

0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:10.840
<v Speaker 3>beige color scheme, together with minimalist settings and personal presentation,

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 3>constituted protectable elements of her brand. And when I say like,

0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.600
<v Speaker 3>their faces are neutral, like they look like they've had

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 3>like all these injectables, so they're just like there's no expression.

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh really, yeah weird, but like the same long row.

0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 3>It's like the kind of like slightly curled bottom hair,

0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.479
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean, like like kind of pumpkin

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:33.480
<v Speaker 3>spice lady.

0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Hair, but they're a little bit of wave at the bottom.

0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Of Yeah, you know, I'm a I'm a hair aesthetic.

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm a heretic.

0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:48.960
<v Speaker 3>So, like, can social media aesthetic or vibe be owned

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:52.440
<v Speaker 3>or protected under traditional intellectual property law?

0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so unless you're doing like a like

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>you do you just say like, hey, I'm marsha On

0:31:57.520 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Lynch and you spell Lynch differently, like then you can

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:00.720
<v Speaker 2>any trouble.

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:00.920
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 3>The media loved this, this question this, They were all

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.600
<v Speaker 3>over it. I mean, whether a personal asthetic could be

0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 3>treated like a trade dress or other protected expression that

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 3>had no clear precedent.

0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:16.600
<v Speaker 2>That's like the Chubby Checker to Fats Domino.

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Questions, it's Fats demeano.

0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 2>This has been done. This is not a new question.

0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:24.480
<v Speaker 3>So Shield's attorney was all motion to dismiss your owner

0:32:25.400 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 3>on a lot of stuff. In late twenty twenty four.

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.040
<v Speaker 2>The dismiss Your Honor.

0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:34.280
<v Speaker 3>The court ruled on the motions, dismissing some claims such

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 3>as torturous interference, while allowing core copyright, trade dress and

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 3>misappropriation of likeness claims to proceed into broader review. So

0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 3>here's the debate on the underlying legal issues. Copyright law

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 3>protects the specific expression of ideas like individual photos or videos,

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:57.239
<v Speaker 3>but not broad ideas like a color palette or a

0:32:57.240 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 3>general style.

0:32:57.960 --> 0:32:59.880
<v Speaker 2>You can't copyright an idea.

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this means that much of what Gifford was looking

0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:08.160
<v Speaker 3>to protect is like outside of copyright reach. Trade dress doctrine,

0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:12.400
<v Speaker 3>which is a form of trademark protection, protects distinctive visual

0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 3>identifiers associated with a source of goods or services, but

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:20.760
<v Speaker 3>only if such identifiers are recognized as unique and capable

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 3>of causing consumer confusion.

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 2>This is mickey mouse Well.

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.920
<v Speaker 3>The most famous example is probably the Coca cola bottle, Yes,

0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:30.520
<v Speaker 3>there you go. Or the wax dripping from the cap

0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 3>on a bottle of Tiffany Blue for their packaging, the

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:39.000
<v Speaker 3>red bottom of a Christian Lubaton shoe, ok, the shape

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 3>of goldfish crackers that's protected, the red tab on a

0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 3>pair of levies, and even the shape and colors used

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 3>in an ie hoop.

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I can see that because they're very distinctive.

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 3>Right, So there's a high legal burden to prove in

0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 3>a crowded esthetic space that there's some sort of trade

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 3>ress doctrine there and.

0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:03.640
<v Speaker 2>The primacy you have to be the first, you can't

0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:06.920
<v Speaker 2>be the second.

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly. So by late twenty twenty four, experts they're

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:12.600
<v Speaker 3>already treating the case as this bell weather for how

0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:15.840
<v Speaker 3>intellectual property laws are going to apply to digital creators

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.840
<v Speaker 3>and influencer content. Is this brand new world?

0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:23.839
<v Speaker 2>If they say so, oh some com no one's ever

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:26.560
<v Speaker 2>done it like this before because this is online.

0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:27.560
<v Speaker 5>Like oh okay, oh sure.

0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 3>There were warnings that if the courts tried to enforce

0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:36.480
<v Speaker 3>something as broad as a quote vibe, a judge's risked

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 3>becoming arbiters of subjective aesthetic judgments.

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you can't copyright a vibe.

0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 3>No, so I've tried May twenty.

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Prince ever copyright a vibe. It was such a specific vibe.

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:49.880
<v Speaker 2>We're like no one else can do exactly.

0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:54.759
<v Speaker 3>May twenty eight, twenty twenty five, Gifford voluntarily dismissed all

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:59.400
<v Speaker 3>of her claims against Shield with prejudice, officially ending the litigation.

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:03.400
<v Speaker 3>So when it's dismissed with prejudice, it means that she

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:07.759
<v Speaker 3>can't refile. No monetary jamages are awarded to either side.

0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Don't be bringing us back in my courtroom.

0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:14.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it came after mediation negotiation. Her lawyer said

0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 3>that the cost and time of litigation influenced her decision

0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:21.280
<v Speaker 3>to withdraw from the case and then refocus on her business,

0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:23.200
<v Speaker 3>in personal life and her aesthetics.

0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 3>Shield's attorney said that this was vindication. I'm sure that

0:35:27.680 --> 0:35:29.719
<v Speaker 3>both of these ladies were loving the fact that so

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.760
<v Speaker 3>many Manila envelopes were used in filing.

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:35.240
<v Speaker 2>That some of the people are mentioning their whole beije

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:38.280
<v Speaker 2>core thing anyway, that's helping their reach.

0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:41.440
<v Speaker 3>Right exactly, So they were like, you know what, Shield's

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:45.560
<v Speaker 3>not paying anything. Claims are meritless. And then they went

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 3>on like her content was independently created and not based

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.960
<v Speaker 3>on Giffords. Both of them made public statements to their

0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 3>followers about their own perceptions of what happened, but it

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:02.640
<v Speaker 3>became known as the Sad Beige lawsuit. And so the

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:06.560
<v Speaker 3>Sad Beaije lawsuit did not result in a judicial opinion

0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:11.120
<v Speaker 3>establishing a new legal precedent, but it did really kind

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:15.880
<v Speaker 3>of highlight the challenges that are facing influencers and intellectual

0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 3>property law in this digital age. You know, there's this

0:36:19.120 --> 0:36:22.440
<v Speaker 3>difficulty of how do you apply traditional copyright and trademark

0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:26.719
<v Speaker 3>framework to non traditional quote content that's built around, built

0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:31.440
<v Speaker 3>around a brand. You know, they're not like individual protected

0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 3>protectable works.

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. You can protect the Nike swoosh, but you

0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:37.520
<v Speaker 2>can't protect the Nike Vibe. Right.

0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:39.799
<v Speaker 3>You'll see a lot of coverage refer to this as

0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.320
<v Speaker 3>personal brand. But this is not something that these ladies

0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:44.760
<v Speaker 3>created whole cloth.

0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 2>No, that's what I'm saying.

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 3>They're chilling products from Amazon. They are ads like, it's

0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:53.440
<v Speaker 3>not personal, and I think that's something that gets lost.

0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:58.399
<v Speaker 3>You talked about Martha earlier. So Martha Stewart created a vibe. Yes,

0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 3>it was riffing off old money, and like fantasies of

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:07.000
<v Speaker 3>gardens and cottages. But she wasn't shilling specific products until

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:11.000
<v Speaker 3>she created her own products and then became a brand herself.

0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 2>She shilled for her own stuff.

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:15.840
<v Speaker 3>That's right. So she's a creator and influencer in my opinion,

0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm probably wrong, in which case everyone can just keep

0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 3>it to them.

0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:20.640
<v Speaker 2>So I think she's an er influencer.

0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:23.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because she wasn't, like I said, she self directed

0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:25.799
<v Speaker 3>at first, and then so it wasn't like at the

0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:29.160
<v Speaker 3>behest of these brands that she was going out and

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:33.839
<v Speaker 3>creating all this quote unquote content. Let's take a break.

0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Let's take an ad break. God bless them these ads.

0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:40.840
<v Speaker 3>When we come back, I have a doozy of an influencer.

0:37:40.239 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 5>Battle Zaren Elizabeth.

0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:04.879
<v Speaker 3>I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:06.600
<v Speaker 2>That's the best place to do the scraping.

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Let's go, bro, let's do it. Let's get down to

0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:13.840
<v Speaker 3>the bottom in this corner. Yes, we have Brian Johnson,

0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:17.440
<v Speaker 3>not the lead singer of a CDC, although I would

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:19.920
<v Speaker 3>love for him to mix it up with an influencer.

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 3>And then, oddly enough, I'm not talking about the Brian

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:27.400
<v Speaker 3>Johnson who's the tech guy trying to stop himself from aging.

0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the guy.

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh, he's fascinating to me. Here's this protocol he developed

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:36.880
<v Speaker 3>called Blueprint, and he's like, so there's a very controlled

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.840
<v Speaker 3>diet structure and meal timing. All of this is to

0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:41.880
<v Speaker 3>make it so that he doesn't age.

0:38:42.160 --> 0:38:43.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or he lives forever.

0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So he's got like macros and all that he

0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 3>doesn't eat afternoon. His menu is fixed, like his morning

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:56.200
<v Speaker 3>drink is what he calls a longevity mix collagen, protein, creatine,

0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 3>prebiotic fibers every day.

0:38:58.360 --> 0:38:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Sure, why not great?

0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.200
<v Speaker 3>And there's lots of exercise and movement. He does a

0:39:03.280 --> 0:39:06.399
<v Speaker 3>daily sixty to ninety minute training block. That makes sense,

0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 3>that's good.

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, move the body.

0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:12.520
<v Speaker 3>He has a set of sleep rules or routines.

0:39:12.080 --> 0:39:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Sleep rules rules, how he sleeps.

0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:18.120
<v Speaker 3>Consistent bedtime, oh okay, a wind down routine, which I

0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:21.480
<v Speaker 3>don't think is like mine of I'm going to watch Instagram.

0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Reels until the doom and my.

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 3>Bulk send them to my friends. He has a cool

0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 3>bedroom temperature range. She avoids stimulants afternoon.

0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, he's funny. I do a lot of these

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>things just naturally because I'm just a jerk because like,

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't like to be over stimulated past noon or whatever.

0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Nobody needs that.

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:43.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't eat late, and I you know, I

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:45.480
<v Speaker 3>like to kind of wind down. I only have one

0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:47.080
<v Speaker 3>cup of coffee in the morning. I don't really have

0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:49.600
<v Speaker 3>anything after stimulant wise after that I do.

0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, never mind, I take it back. I like coffee

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:53.640
<v Speaker 2>all through out the day, but I don't considered a

0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>stimulant because it doesn't really feel like it.

0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:00.960
<v Speaker 3>He takes a crazy number of supplements, some that are

0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:03.200
<v Speaker 3>sold as blueprint products.

0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:06.520
<v Speaker 2>And some not. And then the ones are fatish I think.

0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:08.880
<v Speaker 3>So I couldn't even get a full list. He takes

0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:15.080
<v Speaker 3>a ton of prescription medications. Oh really, Yeah, acrobos met Foreman,

0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:20.879
<v Speaker 3>Candice sartan Jardis, thyroid meds.

0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Any glucosamine android.

0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 3>That's it. That would be ab oral monoxidyl repatha to dalophill.

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:32.400
<v Speaker 3>None of these are to treat conditions other than getting older.

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Also, isn't isn't monoxophyll for hair? Is that active? Ra?

0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:37.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's doing that.

0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:39.239
<v Speaker 2>I know. He used to be a redhead. Now he

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:39.919
<v Speaker 2>has black hair.

0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know how that happened. But yeah, thyroid

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:48.920
<v Speaker 3>meds Jardians met Foreman. I don't know. He has a

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:52.960
<v Speaker 3>whole skincare routine, of course, and then that prescription you

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:58.160
<v Speaker 3>share the prescription hair growth meds. He uses red light

0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:00.520
<v Speaker 3>therapy for both his scalp and hair and then his

0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:04.719
<v Speaker 3>whole body. Oh, he does a hyperbaric oxygen therapy thing.

0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:10.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure he just soaks in it. He does. He

0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:15.360
<v Speaker 3>does young plasma exchanges Keith Richard style, including one involving

0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:15.839
<v Speaker 3>his son.

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:19.000
<v Speaker 2>What. Yeah, he's right, he takes his son, His son's

0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 2>his blood boy.

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's very lance armstrong as it sounds exhausting. His

0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 3>life sounds exhausting and sad and sad like I'm here

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:30.799
<v Speaker 3>for a good time, not a long time.

0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 2>You know how many people have tried this and no

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:36.040
<v Speaker 2>one can pull it off. You'll be the guy to

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 2>list forever. I'm like, it's not going to be the

0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:40.760
<v Speaker 2>trust me. We're not there yet. No, we don't understand

0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:42.640
<v Speaker 2>enough about the human body for you to know what

0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 2>buttons to even push combinations.

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.280
<v Speaker 3>And he's just taken all sorts of garbage.

0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 2>And experimenting on himself too.

0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 3>Might Yeah, he is no the Brian Johnson I'm talking

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.560
<v Speaker 3>about is also known as liver King.

0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh lordy oh, I see it on social media.

0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:02.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't follow him, but occasionally someone who posed him and.

0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Lou That's what I'm talking about. He was born in

0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:13.360
<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy eight, an apparently landbag. He was really bullied

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.400
<v Speaker 3>and picked on as a kid, and as a result,

0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:17.600
<v Speaker 3>he turned to fitness.

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 2>Of course, that's what friend durs Over did it.

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:24.160
<v Speaker 3>He went to Texas Tech University and got a bachelor's

0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:28.720
<v Speaker 3>in biochemistry. Okay, After graduation, he worked as a pharmaceutical

0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:31.799
<v Speaker 3>sales rep in Houston, and then he later you know,

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.040
<v Speaker 3>put money in on his wife's dental practice, so.

0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:37.240
<v Speaker 2>He was like selling oxycontins to the doctors.

0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:40.839
<v Speaker 3>Sure, and then social media came calling, of course, and

0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:45.320
<v Speaker 3>so he adopted the online persona liver King. Around twenty twenty,

0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:50.359
<v Speaker 3>he started promoting what he branded as quote ancestral lifestyle,

0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:56.239
<v Speaker 3>and this lifestyle philosophy had an emphasis on primal nutrition

0:42:56.440 --> 0:43:00.239
<v Speaker 3>and behaviors. So that meant eating like huge amounts of awe,

0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:02.839
<v Speaker 3>unprocessed organ meats.

0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:07.800
<v Speaker 2>So like the height of humanity. Yeah, do you hear yourself?

0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:10.520
<v Speaker 3>Animal fats? You know, he's all about that. Beef tallow

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and other foods rooted in like this romanticized prehistoric diet.

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 3>His videos featured extreme workouts like ice plunges and these

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:24.520
<v Speaker 3>elaborate strength challenges.

0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so he was sure picking up boulders and stuff.

0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:30.960
<v Speaker 3>He went virals Aron. Of course he did TikTok Instagram YouTube.

0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's a living cartoon character, yes.

0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.759
<v Speaker 3>And he had like millions of followers.

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:38.000
<v Speaker 2>He's a short king too, right, so he's like kind

0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 2>an extra spark plug energy.

0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Like, what's his name? Who's the little guy who always

0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 3>poses on his tippy toes? Oh yeah, barstool Sports.

0:43:46.719 --> 0:43:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Dave port Noid.

0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:52.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's look up, Dave Portnoy's standing on his tippy

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:55.759
<v Speaker 3>do tippy does are like posing anytime he's in a

0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:57.799
<v Speaker 3>picture with people. He's what like five foot four.

0:43:58.200 --> 0:43:59.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what he is, yeah, but I know

0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:01.279
<v Speaker 2>that he has showed me the photo he's on his

0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.600
<v Speaker 2>tippy toes, and it's like the question is is like

0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 2>does the person's taking the photo? Obviously he thinks on purpose.

0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:10.400
<v Speaker 2>It seems like it's a dick move to really point

0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:10.680
<v Speaker 2>out what.

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 3>They have to and I applaud them for it. So uh,

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:18.439
<v Speaker 3>so okay. So he's this guy Liver King. He's got

0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:22.200
<v Speaker 3>millions of followers, and he's got a lucrative personal brand,

0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:26.440
<v Speaker 3>like he has this supplement company, Heart and Soil that

0:44:26.560 --> 0:44:30.360
<v Speaker 3>he and this doctor named Paul Salagino started a little

0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:34.839
<v Speaker 3>clos there and though but like his his company spin off,

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.919
<v Speaker 3>like his brand is Ancestral Supplements, which like, right there

0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:45.280
<v Speaker 3>is amazing I like, and he like reportedly he had

0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:49.240
<v Speaker 3>an annual revenue in the nine figure range at its peak.

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 3>What yes, yes, so the Liver King.

0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I feel both bad for all the suckers who get

0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.279
<v Speaker 2>conned by these people, but at the same time, I

0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:01.320
<v Speaker 2>can't believe how many give ups so much money to these.

0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:07.200
<v Speaker 3>So he had these claims about achieving this physique purely

0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:12.759
<v Speaker 3>through the ancestral diet. But like all these medical professionals

0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:16.080
<v Speaker 3>are like, absolutely not, do not do that. Don't just

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:19.239
<v Speaker 3>eat raw liver, chug eggs, and they like climb a

0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:22.720
<v Speaker 3>tree and scream like don't do it, do it for you? No,

0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:27.640
<v Speaker 3>They're like, this is really harmful. And then the whopper

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:31.440
<v Speaker 3>not from Burger King. In late twenty twenty two, there

0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:35.480
<v Speaker 3>were these leaked internal emails that revealed that Johnson had

0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:39.520
<v Speaker 3>been secretly using anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:41.279
<v Speaker 2>If you look at pictures of him with it, he

0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:43.399
<v Speaker 2>always has his shirt off, so you see his chest

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:46.120
<v Speaker 2>and all the way the veins go. You know that

0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:47.720
<v Speaker 2>that's an antibox steroid body.

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 3>And he was spending eleven thousand dollars a month on

0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:53.320
<v Speaker 3>all these drugs.

0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:55.920
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, wow.

0:45:55.560 --> 0:45:58.040
<v Speaker 3>And so he initially was like, no way, man, No,

0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:01.439
<v Speaker 3>that's bogus man. But later he's like, okay, yeah, man,

0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:05.600
<v Speaker 3>like I did it. So he did a YouTube apology video.

0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 2>It's one hundred and thirty two thousand dollars a year

0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:09.040
<v Speaker 2>just ster ruds.

0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:12.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he acknowledged that, you know, he misled.

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:13.879
<v Speaker 2>His audience misled.

0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:16.800
<v Speaker 3>I love an apology video. They're always so terrible.

0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh totally, let's get past my foundational lie and just

0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:22.799
<v Speaker 2>talk about it like it's a bummer. I did this.

0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:26.520
<v Speaker 3>So there's this whole scandal. Some of his followers filed

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:30.320
<v Speaker 3>a class action lawsuit against him and his supplement company,

0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:36.040
<v Speaker 3>claiming deception that was later discontinued. He also was the

0:46:36.080 --> 0:46:40.640
<v Speaker 3>subject of a twenty twenty five Netflix documentary called Untold

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.840
<v Speaker 3>The Liver King, and it kind of traces his whole

0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:48.239
<v Speaker 3>you know. Okay, so that's him, and then in this

0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:54.080
<v Speaker 3>corner we have Joseph James Rogan Junior. You know him

0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:55.520
<v Speaker 3>as Joe Rogan Joe Rogan.

0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:59.680
<v Speaker 3>He started his professional career as a stand up comedian

0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 3>and the teen eighty eight Yes, and then he built

0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:06.200
<v Speaker 3>a name for himself in what I saw described as

0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:09.280
<v Speaker 3>observational and often provocative comedy.

0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:11.000
<v Speaker 3>You say so, I.

0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Think it's like really breaking out in news radio, Like yeah,

0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:14.920
<v Speaker 2>then he goes.

0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.600
<v Speaker 3>He broadens out in television, so he's on sitcoms, he's

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.920
<v Speaker 3>on news radio, and then he gets a gig hosting

0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:22.520
<v Speaker 3>that weird show fear Fair Factor.

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 2>That really when he became a star.

0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:27.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And then he got really deeply involved in mixed

0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:30.200
<v Speaker 3>martial arts ye early guy. Yeah, so in the like

0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:33.279
<v Speaker 3>late nineties, early two thousands, he was working as a

0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:38.880
<v Speaker 3>commentator and an interviewer for Ultimate Fighting Championship UFC. In

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:39.600
<v Speaker 3>two thousand and.

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Nine, like the John Madden of MM.

0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes. In two thousand and nine, he launched The Joe

0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:50.600
<v Speaker 3>Rogan Experience, a long form conversational podcast. Yeah, and you

0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 3>know they have he has guests on from like really

0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:57.240
<v Speaker 3>diverse fields science, politics, entertainment, sports, culture. He's got tens

0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:00.960
<v Speaker 3>of millions of listeners. In twenty twenty, he signed an

0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:05.560
<v Speaker 3>exclusive licensing deal to take his podcast to Spotify. So

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:09.319
<v Speaker 3>he also he has trained in Brazilian jiu jitsu since

0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:12.120
<v Speaker 3>the mid nineties and he has black belts in both

0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:17.400
<v Speaker 3>no Gi and ge forms. And he talks all the

0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:22.399
<v Speaker 3>time about martial arts training methods, physical conditioning on his podcast.

0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:24.960
<v Speaker 3>And he has like really strong views I guess on

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:31.840
<v Speaker 3>health training discipline. I'm sure it's not all roses for

0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:35.560
<v Speaker 3>old Joe. He's a polarizing figures.

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Eron the guy from the host of Fear Factor.

0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 3>He's got this huge platform and let's just say he

0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:47.759
<v Speaker 3>isn't very careful about what he says. It takes the

0:48:47.840 --> 0:48:52.600
<v Speaker 3>stand up comedian when it comes to politics, public health,

0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:55.360
<v Speaker 3>drug policy, free speech, culture.

0:48:56.120 --> 0:49:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy put up on the board talk radio guy gone.

0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 3>So uh, it's there that he crossed paths with Liver King.

0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my, can you imagine the conversations that they are em.

0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:12.320
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to you have it. So by spring

0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:16.160
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty two, you know, Brian Johnson has turned

0:49:16.200 --> 0:49:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Liver King into this like viral masculinity and organ meat brand,

0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:26.200
<v Speaker 3>and the core promise is that his cartoonishly muscular physique

0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:29.279
<v Speaker 3>comes from an ancestral lifestyle.

0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:30.680
<v Speaker 2>From eating the organs of animals.

0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:32.560
<v Speaker 3>Then, Joe Rogan.

0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Are you want to go to kill your own or

0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:36.000
<v Speaker 2>you can go to the supermarket and just get some

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:40.719
<v Speaker 2>organ made war enough as your ancestors would have done.

0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:44.480
<v Speaker 3>I have done so. Rogan. He you know his podcast

0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:47.880
<v Speaker 3>regularly functions as a think tank. Oh yeah, a cultural

0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:52.560
<v Speaker 3>loudspeaker to say on fitness. He clocked the act early

0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:56.399
<v Speaker 3>on and treated it as performance not revelation. Oh yeah,

0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:57.799
<v Speaker 3>he was on to him early on.

0:49:57.920 --> 0:49:59.879
<v Speaker 2>Too much of that false WATCHO.

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:03.200
<v Speaker 3>One human growth hormone user to the other.

0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:07.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw it recog surreal.

0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:12.560
<v Speaker 3>So in a twenty twenty two profile of Johnson, GQ

0:50:12.719 --> 0:50:16.480
<v Speaker 3>talks about how Rogan dismissed Liver King's messages as a

0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:19.640
<v Speaker 3>quote gimmick, and then they landed the line that became

0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:24.399
<v Speaker 3>the feuds, like seed crystal quote. He has got an

0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:27.800
<v Speaker 3>ass filled with steroids is what that guy's got.

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:30.279
<v Speaker 2>That's what Joe Rogan said, And they put include that

0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:33.200
<v Speaker 2>in the profile, And did Johnson get a respond to

0:50:33.200 --> 0:50:34.160
<v Speaker 2>that is the profile.

0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:36.840
<v Speaker 3>No, it mattered less because I mean it was cruel,

0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:39.279
<v Speaker 3>but Joe Rogan says things like that all the time.

0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:42.480
<v Speaker 3>Still it was more because it was aimed at the

0:50:42.520 --> 0:50:47.719
<v Speaker 3>exact fault line of the business model men's but steroids

0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:51.440
<v Speaker 3>and butts like you know, this isn't an ancestral lifestyle.

0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:55.360
<v Speaker 3>This came out of it steroids. So in late June

0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:58.320
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty five, so at this point liver King's

0:50:58.320 --> 0:51:04.000
<v Speaker 3>life is spiraling out, okay Johnson, liver King started posting direct,

0:51:04.440 --> 0:51:10.279
<v Speaker 3>escalating videos addressing Joe Rogan, repeatedly framing it as like

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:12.360
<v Speaker 3>a man to man on her challenge.

0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh I call you out to the oak tree. Oh yeah,

0:51:15.160 --> 0:51:16.200
<v Speaker 2>you show up shirtless.

0:51:16.280 --> 0:51:29.799
<v Speaker 3>We get down, zaren watch you to picture it. You

0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:34.040
<v Speaker 3>are a wolf, or rather you were a wolf. You

0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:37.719
<v Speaker 3>met your maker and now you've been taxidermied, made into

0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:41.480
<v Speaker 3>a pelt with your head intact, and right now you're

0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:45.359
<v Speaker 3>resting on the head of Brian Johnson aka liver King.

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.120
<v Speaker 3>You are in his living room. It's walls painted black,

0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:53.279
<v Speaker 3>various gold spray painted stencils adorning the space over the

0:51:53.280 --> 0:51:58.280
<v Speaker 3>fireplace and surrounding a full length mirror candelabras, rest on tables,

0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.719
<v Speaker 3>a battered leather club chairs behind you and beneath you.

0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:08.080
<v Speaker 3>Liver King. He is topless and wears black sweatpants, his

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:11.759
<v Speaker 3>beard long and his features rough. He stands with his

0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:16.080
<v Speaker 3>legs spread. He's just finished working out and is terribly dehydrated,

0:52:16.520 --> 0:52:20.520
<v Speaker 3>giving definition to his muscles and oddly shaped torso. His

0:52:20.640 --> 0:52:24.680
<v Speaker 3>belly button protrudes like a large cyst an OUTI, if

0:52:24.680 --> 0:52:28.440
<v Speaker 3>ever there was one. You once prowled the woods and

0:52:28.520 --> 0:52:31.279
<v Speaker 3>bayed at the moon. You are now perched on the

0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:35.680
<v Speaker 3>sweaty scalp of a madman. He holds two guns, both

0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:40.200
<v Speaker 3>with impossibly large barrels, one plated in gold. Before you

0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 3>is a tripod and a ring light, and inside of

0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:46.920
<v Speaker 3>it an iPhone. Liver King scurries over to press record,

0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:50.000
<v Speaker 3>then takes a few paces back and hunches forward in

0:52:50.120 --> 0:52:52.320
<v Speaker 3>attack stance. He clears his throat.

0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:54.640
<v Speaker 5>Joe.

0:52:55.200 --> 0:52:59.279
<v Speaker 3>His voice is rough. He clears his throat again. He

0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:01.760
<v Speaker 3>takes in his looking back at him from the selfie

0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.680
<v Speaker 3>mode iPhone. He turns his head this way and that

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:08.680
<v Speaker 3>raises his chin, lowers it. He widens his dance a

0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:13.240
<v Speaker 3>little more and then begins again. Joe Rogan, I'm calling

0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.919
<v Speaker 3>you out. My name's Liver King Man to man, I'm

0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:22.200
<v Speaker 3>picking a fight with you. Yeah. His left leg vibrates

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 3>in an odd tremor. He rants a little more about

0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:27.719
<v Speaker 3>rules and such. You can't really make out what he's saying.

0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 3>You're a liar. You can't pick a fight with a

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.799
<v Speaker 3>real king and expect there not to be an actual fight.

0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:34.040
<v Speaker 4>Bro.

0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:39.040
<v Speaker 3>He leans back and laughs a maniacal chuckle. He then

0:53:39.120 --> 0:53:42.840
<v Speaker 3>straightens up and walks over to the phone, ceasing the recording.

0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:45.440
<v Speaker 3>He sets the guns down on the table and lifts

0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:48.560
<v Speaker 3>you from his head. He restsued gently atop of the guns.

0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:52.640
<v Speaker 3>He leaves the room, mumbling to himself. You have never

0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:56.360
<v Speaker 3>wished more for a house fire than you are now.

0:53:56.560 --> 0:54:00.240
<v Speaker 3>All you want is to be consumed and cleansed in flame,

0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:03.400
<v Speaker 3>allowed to return to the earth that cradled you.

0:54:04.600 --> 0:54:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I hear these things, and I just like

0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:11.320
<v Speaker 2>I want to say, like I knew Randy Macho man Savage,

0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 2>and you, sir, are no Randy Mochu Man Savage.

0:54:15.360 --> 0:54:15.600
<v Speaker 4>It is.

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:18.920
<v Speaker 2>The radios.

0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:21.960
<v Speaker 3>The videos are so uncomfortable, I bet, and I have

0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:24.120
<v Speaker 3>to say that when I went when I went to

0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:27.680
<v Speaker 3>watch the various videos which were totally untinged. The lead

0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:30.680
<v Speaker 3>in ads were bonkers too, Okay, Like there was this

0:54:30.719 --> 0:54:33.080
<v Speaker 3>one with a guy just like standing in his kitchen

0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:36.040
<v Speaker 3>and he's saying how people need to drink warm water

0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:40.640
<v Speaker 3>with cinnamon dissolved in it before bedtime to eliminate blood parasites.

0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.279
<v Speaker 2>Blood parasites. Oh yeah, and sure, why not?

0:54:45.400 --> 0:54:48.919
<v Speaker 3>So this is the point where the beef shifted from

0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:53.040
<v Speaker 3>internet heckling into something that law enforcement could interpret as

0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:57.560
<v Speaker 3>a threat. So the posts were just like general trash

0:54:57.600 --> 0:55:01.200
<v Speaker 3>talk about training or ideology. He starts doing all this

0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:07.120
<v Speaker 3>stuff where he's like directly summoning Joe Rogan like in Austin, Texas,

0:55:07.880 --> 0:55:12.120
<v Speaker 3>and the visuals that read as menacing to outsiders. Crime.

0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:13.040
<v Speaker 3>This is a crime.

0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:15.680
<v Speaker 2>So it starts like wrestling promo energy like I'm going.

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:18.640
<v Speaker 3>To and he's like, I am coming to get.

0:55:18.520 --> 0:55:21.000
<v Speaker 2>You her address.

0:55:21.840 --> 0:55:24.840
<v Speaker 3>So, according to Austin Police, is quoted by ABC News,

0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:29.000
<v Speaker 3>detectives quote reviewed the posts and observed that Johnson quote

0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:32.799
<v Speaker 3>was traveling to Austin while continuing to make threatening statements.

0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:37.200
<v Speaker 3>So like he keeps getting out and taking more videos

0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:40.520
<v Speaker 3>and the travel is crucial, Like it turns a loud

0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:44.160
<v Speaker 3>instagram dare into this scenario, right, we got a person

0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:48.680
<v Speaker 3>with a large platform posting about a fight with weapons.

0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:50.840
<v Speaker 5>On toward the target city.

0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:55.120
<v Speaker 3>So the detectives contact Joe Rogan, who quote had never

0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:58.680
<v Speaker 3>had any interaction with Johnson and considered the post to

0:55:58.680 --> 0:56:01.759
<v Speaker 3>be threatening. And so then the police they get an

0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:06.680
<v Speaker 3>arrest warrant for a terroristic threat charge. Oh Mma. Fighting

0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:11.239
<v Speaker 3>Magazine later added an important connective detail. Sure police were

0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:15.319
<v Speaker 3>initially contacted by a member of Rogan's security team as

0:56:15.360 --> 0:56:18.120
<v Speaker 3>the videos escalated, So it's not like they saw them

0:56:18.160 --> 0:56:21.960
<v Speaker 3>themselves or stumbled upon him. Like Joe Rogan's security was like, hey, guys,

0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:23.359
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna send you a link.

0:56:23.719 --> 0:56:23.879
<v Speaker 5>Now.

0:56:23.920 --> 0:56:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that that was to give like one

0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.799
<v Speaker 2>degree of removed from Joe Rogan, Yeah, rather than him

0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the cause.

0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:33.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so.

0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Since his kung fu wouldn'tet him out of there, what.

0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:43.360
<v Speaker 3>So, like, this is a security problem and Rogan's side

0:56:43.480 --> 0:56:46.840
<v Speaker 3>sees the posts, they see the travel, they like, something

0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:49.320
<v Speaker 3>has to be done before these guys a ninch.

0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:52.319
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing is that you don't with something like this,

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:54.480
<v Speaker 2>You won't know that he's going to do a crime

0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:56.120
<v Speaker 2>till he does. The crime exactly.

0:56:56.600 --> 0:56:59.239
<v Speaker 3>So they find him. The cops find Liver King at

0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:02.840
<v Speaker 3>the Four Season was in downtown Austin, and they arrest

0:57:02.920 --> 0:57:07.160
<v Speaker 3>him on misdemeanor terroristic threat charges. He was there with

0:57:07.280 --> 0:57:10.960
<v Speaker 3>his dogs and he was they had made a video

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:15.520
<v Speaker 3>like these were like dorments or something, and he was like,

0:57:15.680 --> 0:57:17.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm here with my dogs and we're going to get you.

0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:20.200
<v Speaker 3>But do I really love that he was at the

0:57:20.240 --> 0:57:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Four Seasons.

0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:22.040
<v Speaker 2>That's the best detail.

0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.240
<v Speaker 3>Is just like the ancestors would have done.

0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:26.280
<v Speaker 2>And you can picture him like the really plush robe

0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:28.880
<v Speaker 2>they give you, and he's gone around like eating his liver.

0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Belly button, popping his erect belly button.

0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:35.800
<v Speaker 2>He's got like a ice chest of raw meat and

0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:38.640
<v Speaker 2>he's like, I need a bigger fridge exactly.

0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 3>And so Johnson posted a video showing moments before the

0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:47.480
<v Speaker 3>arrest and he's just like pacing around and talking about

0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:51.160
<v Speaker 3>impending prison time and a fight with Rogan. Yeah, the

0:57:51.200 --> 0:57:52.840
<v Speaker 3>cops show up, he's cuffed led away.

0:57:53.680 --> 0:57:55.200
<v Speaker 2>The consequence total.

0:57:56.480 --> 0:57:59.640
<v Speaker 3>So after booking, his release conditions were not like the

0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:03.400
<v Speaker 3>slack on the risk kind. So the Houston Chronicle reported

0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:06.960
<v Speaker 3>that Bond was sad at twenty thousand dollars, and conditions

0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:11.120
<v Speaker 3>included no contact with Joe Rogan, which I'd be like fine,

0:58:11.160 --> 0:58:14.040
<v Speaker 3>and staying two hundred yards away from Rogan and his family,

0:58:14.160 --> 0:58:19.120
<v Speaker 3>plus mental health supervision and evaluation. So like, if this

0:58:19.360 --> 0:58:22.439
<v Speaker 3>you're starting to see, like this conflict's shape is pretty clear.

0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.960
<v Speaker 3>It's not too loud, Guys arguing it's a public figure

0:58:26.000 --> 0:58:30.440
<v Speaker 3>with a massive platform, a perceived threat. Police report guys,

0:58:30.520 --> 0:58:31.400
<v Speaker 3>not so well, it's.

0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Well ahead, like road rage incident. Yeah, just the road

0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:36.400
<v Speaker 2>rage was traveling.

0:58:36.760 --> 0:58:41.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure that there was a fear factor. So the

0:58:41.720 --> 0:58:45.280
<v Speaker 3>criminal complaints said that the police believed that Johnson's behavior

0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:51.120
<v Speaker 3>exhibited some you know, signs of like a mental health episode. Sure,

0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:53.840
<v Speaker 3>and then he could be a danger to himself for others,

0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:56.080
<v Speaker 3>And so you can see why then it goes to

0:58:56.240 --> 0:59:01.439
<v Speaker 3>like no contact orders. There was no no sanctioned fight,

0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:05.720
<v Speaker 3>no Rogan appearance, no public resolution between the two guys.

0:59:06.080 --> 0:59:09.920
<v Speaker 3>The court process just ran out. He ran out the clock.

0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:14.360
<v Speaker 3>Travis County Criminal Court confirmed the charges against Johnson were dismissed,

0:59:14.480 --> 0:59:18.080
<v Speaker 3>like it just faded away. What's wild is how many

0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:22.560
<v Speaker 3>videos spun off from these videos. So there are so

0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:25.800
<v Speaker 3>many videos with commentary on the original videos on the

0:59:25.800 --> 0:59:29.600
<v Speaker 3>whole situation, And that gets into two of my other

0:59:29.680 --> 0:59:32.560
<v Speaker 3>pet peeves when it comes to online content and social media.

0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:35.920
<v Speaker 3>I can't stand when someone posts a video of themselves

0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:38.080
<v Speaker 3>sitting in the front seat of their car, trying to

0:59:38.160 --> 0:59:42.040
<v Speaker 3>lecture me on something like you're automatically not an expert

0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:42.840
<v Speaker 3>in that moment.

0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little more forgiving on that. The thing that

0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I cannot abide is I'm watching a video of one person.

0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:50.439
<v Speaker 2>There's a split screen.

0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:53.560
<v Speaker 3>I'm getting I'm getting to that, But the ones who

0:59:53.680 --> 0:59:56.040
<v Speaker 3>sit in the car, they like drag out whatever they're saying.

0:59:56.080 --> 1:00:00.120
<v Speaker 3>There's lots of preamble and repetition. If someone I know

1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:02.920
<v Speaker 3>forwards me a video like that, I refuse to watch it.

1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:04.960
<v Speaker 3>I see someone in the seat of their car, I'm like, no,

1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:08.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm not watching it. The other one is what you're

1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:10.560
<v Speaker 3>talking about, Like, I guess they call it like a stitch.

1:00:10.600 --> 1:00:14.440
<v Speaker 3>So there's the original video where someone is then superimposed

1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:17.360
<v Speaker 3>over the top, either pointing or nodding or doing like

1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:18.600
<v Speaker 3>an outsized reaction.

1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's multiple ways. Yeah, there's a superimposed where they

1:00:21.640 --> 1:00:23.439
<v Speaker 2>they just see them like kind of floating. Are either

1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:25.240
<v Speaker 2>above or below or to the side. And then the

1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:28.280
<v Speaker 2>other one is the literal split screen, which is like

1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I would, and they're taking up space just to make faces.

1:00:31.360 --> 1:00:34.800
<v Speaker 3>At me nod like the nodding. The other one that's

1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:37.520
<v Speaker 3>I keep seeing now it really irritates me is when

1:00:38.720 --> 1:00:42.440
<v Speaker 3>people will scroll through the comments, funny comments on something

1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:44.440
<v Speaker 3>and just crack up about it.

1:00:44.680 --> 1:00:45.959
<v Speaker 2>They don't read them or make.

1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.640
<v Speaker 3>It, No, they just yeah, it's just them like wheezing, laughing.

1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:50.960
<v Speaker 3>I hate those. Hate is a strong word, and I

1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:54.640
<v Speaker 3>use it on purpose here. So and I also you

1:00:54.680 --> 1:00:58.160
<v Speaker 3>know now that they're letting me vent for one seron, please,

1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:01.840
<v Speaker 3>I can't stand all the like fight videos or videos

1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:05.320
<v Speaker 3>of bigots acting badly in public or like people wilding out.

1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Like I know that stuff exists, and the videos exist

1:01:09.280 --> 1:01:11.080
<v Speaker 3>to get us all riled up. And that's not the

1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:13.120
<v Speaker 3>stuff to get riled up over right.

1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:14.280
<v Speaker 2>It does water down the ridge.

1:01:14.360 --> 1:01:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like we have more urgent, route worthy issues. Yes,

1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:21.520
<v Speaker 3>I don't care about someone getting slapped in a taco bell, right, yeah.

1:01:21.560 --> 1:01:23.520
<v Speaker 3>And I don't want to be so mad. I don't

1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:26.520
<v Speaker 3>want to be so worked up. I want peace and

1:01:26.640 --> 1:01:31.080
<v Speaker 3>quiet and safety and creativity and community. And we don't

1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:32.320
<v Speaker 3>have that right now.

1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Or if you are going to get into fight, it

1:01:34.040 --> 1:01:36.280
<v Speaker 2>better be one of the most epic crazy like guy

1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:38.720
<v Speaker 2>gets knocked off of a cliff by a donkey.

1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:40.240
<v Speaker 3>No, no, I don't want to see that.

1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:43.560
<v Speaker 2>No I do. I want to see that. I want

1:01:43.560 --> 1:01:44.080
<v Speaker 2>to see that.

1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:46.240
<v Speaker 3>I you know what, a man.

1:01:46.040 --> 1:01:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Fights an animal and loses. I will watch that every

1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:51.000
<v Speaker 2>time kangaroo beats up a man.

1:01:51.240 --> 1:01:53.800
<v Speaker 3>For all of this, I put blame on both social

1:01:53.840 --> 1:01:58.360
<v Speaker 3>media and reality TV, among other things, obviously, But and

1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:02.760
<v Speaker 3>then now I'm just gonna go check my instagram, Zaren well,

1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:05.240
<v Speaker 3>I look for reels to forward to you. What's your

1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:06.200
<v Speaker 3>ridiculous takeaway.

1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe I admitted to you that I will

1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:13.720
<v Speaker 2>really am a huge fan and victim of the genre

1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:17.160
<v Speaker 2>of man fights animals videos like I don't like watching

1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:20.000
<v Speaker 2>like two people fight generally, and like listen to some

1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:23.200
<v Speaker 2>like righteous moment or some like they're getting justice through

1:02:23.200 --> 1:02:24.800
<v Speaker 2>the violence, and I can watch it and I have

1:02:24.920 --> 1:02:28.400
<v Speaker 2>no problem, no qualms. No, But if it's an animal,

1:02:28.480 --> 1:02:30.959
<v Speaker 2>like I don't feel the least. But you know, of course,

1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I know it's like I'm always written for the animals, you.

1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Know, well, they hope the animals always win.

1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:39.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm a get on, mister bear, get them. I don't

1:02:39.080 --> 1:02:41.120
<v Speaker 2>want to see like graphic gore, but I do want

1:02:41.160 --> 1:02:43.880
<v Speaker 2>to see like the man get scared up a tree

1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.560
<v Speaker 2>by a coyote whatever. I'm like, yeah, you tried to

1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:49.080
<v Speaker 2>fight a coyote and realized it was a coyote after

1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the fact. I don't care what happens. So I'm a

1:02:52.000 --> 1:02:55.200
<v Speaker 2>silly sod that way, and I admit it. What's yours, Elizabeth?

1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:58.040
<v Speaker 3>I wish takeaways. I wish that just for once, you

1:02:58.200 --> 1:02:58.760
<v Speaker 3>let me vent.

1:02:59.880 --> 1:03:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying. I'm really trying.

1:03:01.960 --> 1:03:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, let's have a talk back.

1:03:04.360 --> 1:03:19.760
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, Hello Jeet, Hey Elizabeth.

1:03:20.200 --> 1:03:25.680
<v Speaker 6>So I heard about the black garlic gerrito dip. Sounds interesting,

1:03:25.920 --> 1:03:27.919
<v Speaker 6>but I'd like to let you know that I've made

1:03:28.040 --> 1:03:32.280
<v Speaker 6>black garlic sugar cookies. One of my coworkers said it

1:03:32.360 --> 1:03:36.360
<v Speaker 6>tasted like Christmas. I did add ginger to it, but

1:03:37.240 --> 1:03:40.480
<v Speaker 6>give it a try. Okay, love the show.

1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:45.400
<v Speaker 3>Bye, black garlic sugar cookies and ginger.

1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So it's like a ginger snap.

1:03:48.480 --> 1:03:50.440
<v Speaker 3>I am very intrigued. All right, I'm gonna look up

1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:53.600
<v Speaker 3>a recipe. Thank you for that hot tip. That's it

1:03:53.680 --> 1:03:56.600
<v Speaker 3>for today. You can find us online at ridiculous Crime

1:03:56.680 --> 1:04:01.120
<v Speaker 3>dot com. We're also Ridiculous Crime. I'm Blue Sky Instagram,

1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Social Media. Let's see YouTube as Ridiculous Crime pod. You

1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:09.040
<v Speaker 3>can email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com,

1:04:09.160 --> 1:04:12.720
<v Speaker 3>leave a talk back on the iHeart app. Please please,

1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:20.440
<v Speaker 3>please do so reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Dutton and Zara Burnett, produced and edited by Kidney King,

1:04:24.280 --> 1:04:28.760
<v Speaker 3>Dave Kusten starring Emilie Rutger as Judith. Research is by

1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:33.080
<v Speaker 3>Spleen Queen, Marissa Brown and Baron Vaughan. Appendix Jabari Davis.

1:04:33.320 --> 1:04:36.000
<v Speaker 3>The theme song is by Duke of Thyroid Thomas Lee

1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:40.320
<v Speaker 3>and Sinus Cavity Prince Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided

1:04:40.320 --> 1:04:43.800
<v Speaker 3>by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot

1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:47.880
<v Speaker 3>and mister Andre. Executive producers are inventor of the Happy

1:04:47.920 --> 1:04:52.960
<v Speaker 3>Beije aesthetic, Ben Bolan and rival Happy Beije influencer Noel Brown.

1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:02.080
<v Speaker 3>Why Say It One More Time?

1:05:02.440 --> 1:05:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Ridiqulious Crime.

1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1:05:11.840 --> 1:05:13.280
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows,